Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-06-29 | 2017-07-01 → ↓
sina: ok back
sina: mircea_popescu: off the top of my head there were two things that I thought needed clarification
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 03:59 mircea_popescu: i say count from 1.
sina: which led to this conclusion http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-10#1668162
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 04:04 mircea_popescu: counterintuitively counting must be from 0 ?!
mircea_popescu: so girl bought imported (us) strawberries, and i swear to god they taste like detergent. washed and rinsed the living shit out of them. it's in the fucking skin.
ben_vulpes: sina: yo
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 04:09 ben_vulpes: my next q is does the iteration run [0, count] or [0, count)
sina: which I noticed in my golang impl is [0, count)
sina: and I remember making it [0, count] and it breaking somehow or other
sina: oh right I remember
mircea_popescu: iirc that was correctly [0, count)
sina: in mpfhf-python: for i in range(0, count):
sina: which is [0, count], right?!
sina: but in golang: for i := 0; i<count; i++ {
mircea_popescu: nfi python
sina: which is [0, count) :o
sina: if I change golang to <=, it differs from python
ben_vulpes: iirc we hit consensus with [0, count) in golang, however you implemented that
sina: right
sina: ok well those were the 2 things which I believe the spec should be refined to state clearly
mircea_popescu: aite gimme a minute here ima write a final-drafrt
sina: anything from your end ben_vulpes ?
mircea_popescu: sina what do i ref you as ? got a blog or anything ?
ben_vulpes: sina: neg
mircea_popescu: and sina ben_vulpes where's the cannonical impl live for each of you ? i dun want to change links later.
sina: you can link sina.id.au I guess, that is the castle home but no blog currently live there
mircea_popescu: you own id.au ?
sina: I don't
mircea_popescu: wtf is wrong with you ?
sina: wtf is wrong with me for not owning id.au? or for having a .id.au domain?
mircea_popescu: "where do i send the check ?" "oh, here's my landlord's address. he takes all my money and i guess if he's bored buys me little riffled ankle socks so i can dance in the street"
mircea_popescu: own your things. not just your bitcoin. all your things, i say.
sina: I do
mircea_popescu: well so then reg a domain and use that.
sina: I did!
mircea_popescu: da fuck ?!
mircea_popescu: you know, just because the brits.co.uk are fucktarded, doesn't change how domain names work.
sina: mircea_popescu: if I had said my blog was sina.com.au would you have had same reaction?
sina: fair
sina: too bad sina.com is a giant chinese search engine!
mircea_popescu: it's what it is : a subdomain off a domain in a space run by fucktards who figure hey, "if this is all we sell it'll count"
sina: anyway if you hate it no need to link, like Isaid nothing is public facing there atm anyway
mircea_popescu: ill link whatever you say ; but i'll bitch about some subclasses.
sina: fair
mircea_popescu: for-your-own-benefit (tm)
sina: mircea_popescu: next q was where live, for me pls github.com/sinner-/mpfhf-python and github.com/sinner-mpfhf-golang
mircea_popescu: now trilema's linking to github, this is what i get for my sluttery.
sina: the castle has cgit but it is behind the wall
ben_vulpes: top kek
mircea_popescu: sina suppose, for the sake of entirely idle argument going over things that could never happen irl, that in a week github comes up with a "code of conduct" and you get booted off it.
mircea_popescu: will i have been made a sucker for your sake then ?
sina: mircea_popescu: are you asking if that is the only place it exists other than my HDD? a: no
mircea_popescu: no. i am asking what exactly must be your thought process to give away your work to a bunch of usg tarded spammers so they can then turn around and sell it.
mircea_popescu: as if THEY had anything to do with it, any say in it, etcetera.
mircea_popescu: "github presents -- black chix code. this is what's important. we'd know because be bamboozled 5mn sinas into giving us free shit!"
sina: I guess it just doesn't bother me if anyone at all uses it
mircea_popescu: no two bit us-run "company" should have the sort of power ~everyone unthinkingly gave twitter et all.
mircea_popescu: sina yeah. and because mice don't bother elephant, elephant dies inexplicably of plague.
ben_vulpes: sina: why the resistance to making a website?
sina: also what's on there is just...how do I put it? hobby projects? stuff I do in my spare time
mircea_popescu: cuz it's a) work and b) unexpected
mircea_popescu: sina how's that change anything ?
sina: I get paid to make stuff during work hours and that's not shared with anyone :P
mircea_popescu: the problem isn't their per-unit value. the problem is their count ; and the unthinkingness.
sina: ben_vulpes: there was one, but I never posted anything to it
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1668957 << not terrifically unexpected, no
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 04:19 ben_vulpes: sina: sensible thing to do is make a genesis of your shit, stand up an mp-wp and post it on your blog
sina: let me rephrase
sina: you guys are literally the first and only people, ever, to actually care :P
ben_vulpes: heh and i get the astonishment too. that it's so deep, and about the weirdest of shit!
ben_vulpes: "you don't have a website?! linking to github?!"
mircea_popescu: almost like a cult.
ben_vulpes: it must sound so strange!
ben_vulpes: sina: go impl is canonical?
ben_vulpes: or mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes both are. go and lisp.
ben_vulpes: i mean which of his
ben_vulpes: but yeah i caught that i got a new caftan! neato!
mircea_popescu: go. sina did you ever get python to snuff also ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes lel
sina: mircea_popescu: yes both python and go return identical hashes for stuff I tested
sina: and I developed them in tandem
mircea_popescu: alrighty then. so we get 3.
ben_vulpes: hat trick!
sina: has asciilifeform reviews the codes?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 01:32 mircea_popescu: it should actually be "expand and screw r in s":
mircea_popescu: ah it was already in article somehow.
sina: mircea_popescu: I didn't forget, I thought you updated the blogpost on the day to reflect that and I did it on my README too
mircea_popescu: i think i was so ashamed of publishing bs originally that i just edited on the spot
mircea_popescu: sina confirmed
sina: mircea_en_shametown
mircea_popescu: sina fixed i think?
sina: mircea_popescu: suggestion. "A third operation is the flipping of a number of bits in either S or R," should read "elements A or B" and make that operation generic
mircea_popescu: but there are no other elements defined than S and R
mircea_popescu: incidentally, ben_vulpes & other blog afficionados, check me out with the article renaming on the fly, yes ? and old name resolves and everything ? go me ok ? OK ?
sina: yah, I just remember when implementing it I had to write out that sentence on notepad as A and B to wrap my head
sina: but only a suggestion
mircea_popescu: the great advantage of your work is that people can now just read the impl.
mircea_popescu: to wrap head. and such a wide palette ~impossible for anyone to not find a language he speaks.
sina: true
mircea_popescu: aged 17 to 71
mircea_popescu: if no more changes, shit left to do re mpfhf : a) do some proper profiling work, with timings etc. could make a great blog article. b) try and break it, like any hash. could make a bnunch of great blog articles (tried this, so and so, didn't work -- can do this 500 times).
sina: "Once the position is larger than the size of M" how about "once all iterations are complete"
mircea_popescu: "once all iterations are complete" means nothing in context ?
mircea_popescu: the whole game is "define ALL your elements and then USE NOTHING BUT THE DEFINED ELEMENTS"
sina: it does so
sina: The function starts at position 0 in M and iterates over each bit in M
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/06/dead-alt-soros-no-longer-effective-in-protecting-daughter-from-truth/ << Qntra - Dead alt-Soros No Longer Effective In Protecting Daughter From Truth
BingoBoingo: too slow deedbutt
mircea_popescu: sina what is the definition of "complete" ?
mircea_popescu: what is the count of iterations that corresponds to your symbol "all" ?
sina: for each bit of M, appropriate step has been completed
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: mp-wp is pretty neat
sina: looks good to me
mircea_popescu: this has been such a pleasant little gem. thanks!
sina: it was a pleasure to work on!
asciilifeform: did ben_vulpes ever get his to agree answerwise with the others?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: aye
mircea_popescu: yeah, coupla weeks ago
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: neato
phf: was bug in spec?
ben_vulpes: phf: 2
phf: hax
ben_vulpes: bugs also in coad
phf: some fiat shit right there
phf ducks
ben_vulpes: immutable inputs!
mircea_popescu: is this hate ?
phf: apparently it's called a "dis", african americans invented it in the 40s
sina: hmm
mircea_popescu: anyway -- thanks to the werkz we are now in a better position to find out if this thing even works.
sina: I can't remember what this one was about http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-10#1668188
a111: Logged on 2017-06-10 04:08 sina: or is this a spec bug
mircea_popescu: this + the ai learning thing, which i've not forgot about btw, will update it soonish.
mircea_popescu: "sina: ok, so should I keep my screw implementation as is?" "mircea_popescu: yes."
mircea_popescu: phf next you're going to come up with shade a la "the only reason it's fabulous is cuz it's ghey" and then ima get my disbaseball bat
phf: humor so bad it's good, or is it
mircea_popescu: the only reason it was funny is because it was GAY niggers that came up with it in the 40s!
mircea_popescu: but kids today don't know the history of infosec anymoar.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/656A746A3CF65B13C3026486E29E425B8BEB6601D9ED8B5EEB1DE720A21E78EB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1523...1189 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.51.46.126 (ssh-rsa key from 72.51.46.126 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mars.waven.com. US CA)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/656A746A3CF65B13C3026486E29E425B8BEB6601D9ED8B5EEB1DE720A21E78EB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1627...7153 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.51.46.126 (ssh-rsa key from 72.51.46.126 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mars.waven.com. US CA)
ben_vulpes: this go script screams
sina: I like go
sina ducks
sina: ben_vulpes: you write clojure no? I'd be interested to race golang vs functional jvm
ben_vulpes: i only fuck with the jvm under duress
ben_vulpes: or hint of riches
mircea_popescu: so, sina , shall we give this gossipd of yours a go ?
ben_vulpes: tangentially relatedly, i've been working from a cheapo ssd in this ancient once-gaming-rig i got for a song and holy shit does it kick the ass off the ssds in macbooks
sina: mircea_popescu: sure.
ben_vulpes: i had no idea how shit the tanium was
mircea_popescu: sina ok, so terminal says python 2.6.5
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/promising-and-promises/ << Trilema - Promising ; and promises.
mircea_popescu: what now ?
mircea_popescu: the above should plainly explain btw (for instance, via asciilifeform 's "beat the ai" game), why rng is absolutely required for sovereign entity to even in principle exist.
sina: mircea_popescu: old man python hey? you should be able to clone the repo and run "python setup.py install" from inside the repo dir
sina: the README explains all usage
mircea_popescu: some assembly required huh. fair enough, lessee this readme then\
mircea_popescu goes hmm what was it, github/sina- ? ends up with https://github.com/sina-/dota-hero-suggestion
sina: github.com/sinner-
sina: github.com/sinner-/gossipd
mircea_popescu: git clone an virtualenv and stuff.
mircea_popescu: well, this machine's not set up for such liftings.
sina: mircea_popescu: would you be willing to ssh into another box where it's setup?
mircea_popescu: sina prolly premature to hassle you with ah hey, that's an idea. sure.
mircea_popescu: if only we had teh uci already ;/
sina: ok hold pls
sina: uci?
sina: ah interesting I actually had a similar idea after reading abotu the ai stuff
sina: mircea_popescu: where are you atm? I booted in Frankfurt thinking you were in EU but just realised you're probly elsewhere :P
mircea_popescu: costa rica. whart diff does it make ?
sina: ah I would've booted something with less lag is all
mircea_popescu: dun much matter does it.
sina: ssh pubkey?
mircea_popescu: um. lessee.
mircea_popescu: $key simonpenner
mircea_popescu: !!key sina
mircea_popescu: suspiciously enough, ssh-keygen takes all of 5ms or some shit.
mircea_popescu: sina wait i just realised i'm retarded lol. 1 sec
sina: you are
sina: cat .ssh/id_rsa.pub
sina: mircea_popescu: can you 'ssh root@45.77.66.53'
mircea_popescu: 48:b6:50:73:bd:07:2c:58:ac:f5:68:bb:d1:50:63:1d ?
sina: ye
mircea_popescu: hey, im into... something. there's pretty red colored stuff.
mircea_popescu goes back to readme to see wtf next.
sina: yup. ok pls open another terminal, one to run the daemon and another to run the client
mircea_popescu: gossipc just ends, is that intended ?
sina: you can run gossipc -h
mircea_popescu: aite, which peer do i add ?
sina: so youcan add me as a peer with: gossipc --add-peer --name sina --host 127.0.0.1 --port 5556
sina: mircea_popescu: ok, so then save my key somewhere onto the filesystem like /tmp/sina_exchange.pub and run: gossipc --set-peer-key --name sina -k /tmp/sina_exchange.pub
mircea_popescu: so i saved it as hurr.txt and then gossipc -k hurr.txt, no anmswer
sina: sorry the UX bit of it is still a tad clunky
mircea_popescu: also no answer.
sina: all good.
mircea_popescu: so where do i see messages ? send ?
mircea_popescu: i got a RECV: empty line
sina: ah, fuck
sina: some kind of bug! wtf!
sina: hold pls
mircea_popescu: don't sweat it.
mircea_popescu: i typed "hurr ?" into the demon window, though i suspect that's not intended usage
sina: nope
sina: you can ctrl-c the daemon and I will tell you when to restart
mircea_popescu: it can just go.
mircea_popescu: 99% cpu too, nice handiwork there :D
mircea_popescu: o look, and systemd...
sina: grewdfwe
mircea_popescu: o hey, still empty :D
sina: heh
mircea_popescu: aite listen don't stress out, we'll try this again later.
sina: yeah, I'll let you know when I have hunted down wtf is going on
sina: considering this is working on an identical setup locall
mircea_popescu: heh, sounds exactly like why man made computer in the first place.
sina: heh ffs!
sina: I was missing the final "-" of your pubkey footer
sina: feel free to hop back on
mircea_popescu: got some other stuff going right now, so not a good time, but tomorrow or such ?
sina: sure
sina: ok added some error handling to stop that issue in future, how annoyin
mircea_popescu: and so the little guy grew...
mircea_popescu: sina can you dump pcap of session going ?
sina: there's no session! :P
mircea_popescu: lol i see!
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 02:15 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675565 << the problem with the concept of a "session" is that it attempts to link machine state to world state. this is a very tenuous proposition, and the fundamental reason why sessionificatyion of (the correctly designed) stateless http protocol failed for 30 years straight and will continue to fail forever.
mircea_popescu: sina can you dump pcap of two of these talking ?
sina: yesr
mircea_popescu: also, how do you feel about replacing your db dependency with encrypted-flatfile instead ?
sina: mircea_popescu: I feel fine about reducing everything once the concept is OK'd
sina: can change tcp for udp, can change sql for flatfile, can change python for syslang
mircea_popescu: the two main problems are the db and the rsa import as it stands.
sina: happy to swap out the RSA lib if one can be proposed
mircea_popescu: we'll see what alf makes for minigame
sina: I just googled "small RSA lib" and tomcrypt was one that had python bindings out of the box
mircea_popescu: sina so you're considering making offer for ai learning hosting ?
sina: mircea_popescu: I dunno. all I can say is when I was reading the ai logs, and you mentioned irc repl, I was thinking about how it could be implemented
sina: today is Fri here, bout to return to work in a few days, so free time will be curtailed
mircea_popescu: hey, teh republic is made of free men.
sina: mircea_popescu: what do you want to see ideally? just a lisp repl with irc interface?
sina: where do I upload this pcap
mircea_popescu: wotpaste ?
mircea_popescu: and i was talking specifically about the ai learning thing, http://trilema.com/2017/the-bitcoin-learning-tournament/
mircea_popescu: i intend to hire someone to do the official run, see.
sina: mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ZXfR3/?raw=true base64 encoded because PCAPs are binary, so pls base64 decode first
sina: mircea_popescu: FYI that is a bunch of send and recv from 2 peers, (1 on port 5555, other on port 5556) on the same network interface (127.0.0.1) ...it's not a single "session"
sina: I did look at the learning tournament blog previously but I couldn't really grok it
mircea_popescu: obviously not. just, you realise, it's a republican artefact, "1st pcap of an early gossipd attempt"
mircea_popescu: well, basically a bunch of people (ideally) will write ai bots, and solmeone will have to run their tournament.
mircea_popescu: sina ftr, the lisp repl with irc interface was already built ; her name is candi_lustt
mircea_popescu: !!up candi_lustt
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: candi_lustt (+ 2 3)
mircea_popescu: oh what was it
mircea_popescu: !W (+ 2 3)
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: 5
sina: nice
sina: so can you untangle these for me as I'm a little confused
sina: UCI ?
sina: ai thing?
mircea_popescu: universal computing interface.
sina: I got that from the logsearch link you put, but http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-12#1582081 had me confused
a111: Logged on 2016-12-12 15:24 Framedragger: uci == universal computing interface? something something infrastructure on demand at your irc fingertips, right (ironically google is failing me)
mircea_popescu: see the early discussion re it in the log, http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=UCI it's well described
mircea_popescu: sina ah ok. yeah that's the idea.
sina: mircea_popescu: so is UCI just candi_lustt + an interface you can pay for resources via?
mircea_popescu: nah. candi_lustt is a by hand, limited implementation of something that could be deemed uci in the sense of the donkey-powered shower.
sina: have you ever heard of seccomp?
sina: it's a linux kernel feature you can use to limit which syscalls a program has access to...the original version of seccomp allowed only read()/write()/exit() syscalls
sina: it was implemented for this CPUShare concept
mircea_popescu: myeah. all sorts of these.
sina: so people could sell CPU cycles, in a pretty hard sandbox, that only offered those 3 syscalls
sina: is that the same kind of idea?
sina: I can actually feel asciilifeform being angry at me in the future already
mircea_popescu: lol. it's... somewhjat similar i guess
a111: Logged on 2017-05-02 15:39 mircea_popescu: could I do something like !$mirror <url> 5 so as to get it to spin up 5 separate instances, load url, unpack it and serve ?
mircea_popescu: that is a fine example. or, you know, calculate the mpfhf over the gutenberg collection.
mircea_popescu: or whatever, hashing, packeting, anything and everything.
sina: hmm ok so there is an interesting technology I have worked on
mircea_popescu: there is ?
sina: you've probably heard of Amazon S3, it's an object store with REST API, so it responds to primitives GET/HEAD/PUT/DELETE/POST ...there is an equivalent open source project part of OpenStack called Swift. some people I know worked on a sandbox that only accepts input on stdin and writes to stdout, and wrotesome middleware for swift so you can for example upload a datset and compute on it and get the result
sina: back
mircea_popescu: i think we even used them at some point.
mircea_popescu: interesting. what was the problem with it ?
sina: sorry, them being?
mircea_popescu: amazon s3s
sina: mircea_popescu: no problem with it, just nobody wants this!
sina: I rant about it to my boss at least once a week
mircea_popescu: seems like you found a new home!
sina: mircea_popescu: when the people I know first wrote ZeroVM it was like 2012 or so, and at the time I was working at a startup you may recall that. and I told everyone we shoudl get involved, was ignored, then ZeroVM got "acquihired" by Rackspace
sina: and since then the project has been stealth or just stagnant
mircea_popescu: kinda how this stuff works.
sina: no commits to zerovm github since 2015 same for zerocloud middleware for swift :(
sina: anyway, it would be trivial to place an irc gateway in front of that
mircea_popescu: there's a management/pricing segment too
sina: elaborate?
mircea_popescu: which depends on deedbot payments, which reminds me... how's that going trinque ?
mircea_popescu: sina the idea is for me to go "do this" and for it to go "here's your bill sir"
mircea_popescu: then all the ad-hoc uci impls doing full disk encryption for maerks could be actually useful.
mircea_popescu: nobody cared what their shitty data was, anyway.
sina: fde wouldn't have protected them
sina: backups would have!
mircea_popescu: nono, the attack consists of encryption.
sina: oh LOL
sina: you mean, the ransomware bot shoudl have been UCI bots? haha
mircea_popescu: there's two kinds of computers : public, and private. everyone else's computers are public, and by public i simply mean, not theirs.
sina: so what's wrong with candi_lustt for this role? it just needs a billing thingo?
mircea_popescu: gotta put a price tag on this whole "we're too lazy to do security"
mircea_popescu: sina it doesn't, for instance, spin up new ones.
mircea_popescu: nor does it... acquire them.
sina: hahahaha
sina: technically both of those are just pieces of code you'd write though
mircea_popescu: technically.
sina: so then?
sina: ah
mircea_popescu: so then i've not written them lol.
sina: so this thing literally exists on the market today and its fucking cheap for example to use Amazon Lambda...is the reason you want your own basically boil down to 1. no irc gw 2. not tmsr?
mircea_popescu: sina no. 1. no "rules of conduct" 2. no usg / fiat "sovereign" interdictability.
mircea_popescu: this thing exists to put an end to non-tmsr computing, give or take.
sina: well someone like me could write software to do these things but the deployment would need to be outside of jurisdiction, hard for me as an AU citizen
sina: you need to be Eastern European or Chinese
mircea_popescu: let them self-deploy.
sina: so basically it's just a pay to play botnet?
mircea_popescu: bitcoin+gossipd+uci -> pretty much time to say goodnight.
mircea_popescu: i suppose you could say that.
mircea_popescu: though i've yet to see a good botnet.
sina: good being defined as?
mircea_popescu: the typical botnet is what, a bunch of fridges sending ntp requests ?
mircea_popescu: people's understanding of "botnet" goes as far as the very deliberate automattic wp hole, for isntance.
sina: sure, but that is largely a lack of originality in the types of commands executed, but the botnet itself can execute whatever
mircea_popescu: i suppose.
sina: when I was a bit younger I worked for managed hosting company
mircea_popescu: dunno how much useful anything can a windows box execute, but for the sake of argument
sina: customer sites used to get scanned/pwned/php shell uploaded on the regular
sina: php shell was usually <100 lines of base64 encoded thing that'd shell out to whatever you wanted
mircea_popescu: i'm sure. trilema daily log is 1mn lines of crap.
mircea_popescu: "trying things"
sina: yeh exactly
mircea_popescu: among them, things from you know, 1997
mircea_popescu: "dis most popular guestbook php!"
sina: costs nothing to check for existence of shit software compared to payoff :P
mircea_popescu: as the saying went, "poll or get lost" hm
sina: brb
sina: hmmm
sina: well it's certainly an interesting concept
mircea_popescu: do we do anything else ?
sina: seriously hanging here is the least bored I ever am
mircea_popescu: makes one feel.... alive, huh.
sina: how can I explain it
sina: ok
sina: day to day, everything is postmodernism. any idea you have, someone did it. probably better than you. in fact, one example of that is MPex
sina: an idea I had, then I saw someone had done it way better than my idea
sina: but tmsr in general, everything that anyone has done sucks and is to be torn down and rebuilt in some quirky fashion
sina: lots of fertile ground for funtimes
mircea_popescu: people are liek "oh, mp can't be rich & powerful because rich & powerful people don't irc". totally, because it is really the goal of my life as well as everyone reasonable to be as rich and powerful as trump, so as to live the great life of idiots trying to insert cathetercam up your dick as you're trying to pee
mircea_popescu: "FOR THE DEMOCRACY! PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO LOOK UP YOUR BLADDER!"
mircea_popescu: i suppose i'm missing out on a lot of watching four movies at once through pay per view.
sina: mircea_poorpescu
sina: that's what they call you mate
mircea_popescu: o, really ?
sina: yep
sina: :D
mircea_popescu: pretty great name fuckupery, at that.
sina: mircea_popescu: earlier you said "spin up new ones"
sina: is a "new one" a full host, i.e. CPU/RAM/HDD/public IP?
mircea_popescu: it can be whatever no ?
sina: well it depends right?
sina: !mirror <url> 5
sina: needs 5 public IPs
mircea_popescu: is a new child an athlete artist intellectual cook ?
mircea_popescu: well... ideally atleast some are each
sina: !sha256 <set of document URLs>
sina: doesnt
sina: but both might spin up 5 "new ones" to do the task
sina: I'm just trying to envision what a "one" is
mircea_popescu: some kind of physical item
sina: I get the feeling that the task would be much simpler if there was only 1 public IP for the whoel system where you could retrieve the results of whatever "job" you triggered
mircea_popescu: comms over gossipd
sina: that'd be much more difficult given your requirement for manual peer introduction?
sina: I mean imagine you have autonomous "acquisition" of ndoes
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 02:18 mircea_popescu: the only way for A and B to be introduced, outside of the grandfatherly, A fucks B and they exchange bits of paper, is C tells A about B and B about A.
sina: ah right
mircea_popescu: after all, you did get my key from... your irc client yes ?
sina: I did but in my mind that falls more under A fucks B
sina: well it wasn't bits of paper, but wotpaste URLs are not so different?
mircea_popescu: we didn't fuck!
sina: DIDNT WE
mircea_popescu: you just... BLEW my mind~!
sina: so in your way of thinking, B is irc.freenode.net?
sina: +wotpaste?
mircea_popescu: could be. if it were how'd you know.
sina: I guess I was thinking of C tells A
mircea_popescu: a yes, C not b.
sina: as B has fucked C and A and exchange paper with both of them
sina: transitive peer recognition through trusting the fucker
mircea_popescu: i have no idea why this is confusing
sina: it's because you have an implicit mental model of the thing and years of log context
sina: and I am basically just grokking the thing less than a week ago
mircea_popescu: a could be!
ben_vulpes: also worth mentioning the feedback loop where a and c get the wrong keys somehow and go talk to b about it
mircea_popescu: now look : in situation 1, where bricktop decided to introduce me to you, and you do me, for which purpose he sent you some wotpaste and me similarily
mircea_popescu: and situation 2 where i sent you it via irc, how do you distinguish ?
sina: "you do me" *me dies*
sina: good question
sina: in situation 1, I assume there is no bricktop and we exchange wotpaste directly
mircea_popescu: "directly"
sina: but I guess you are assuming you'd never add a rando peasant
mircea_popescu: gotta separate your vision from the shit on the glasses.
mircea_popescu: are you kidding, i added rando peasant with my cock last week
sina: I think this is a much more interesting idea than the IRC bot I was goign to make that plays chess
sina: instead, IRC bot which accepts any shell command, tracks CPU time, mem used, block and network IO consumed and presents a bill
ben_vulpes: if it runs any shell command, what's to keep it from getting at your monitor?
sina: ben_vulpes: monitor?
sina: oh the thing tracking billing?
ben_vulpes: thing as what tracks cpu time etc
ben_vulpes: cl runs 3-4x longer than the go impl after attending to all the compiler notes i can; probably need a pointer on profiling common lisp code to squeeze much more out of it
ben_vulpes: or, a different set of eyes.
sina: you can run the command in a sandbox and track it with cgroups in linux
sina: once long ago, I ran a tor hidden service that allowed anyone to execute any command they liked on it, as a deanonymisation challenge
sina: nobody could ever deanon it even though they had shell access
sina: (because of the sandbox techniques)
ben_vulpes: some not-root root-alike?
sina: grsec chroot sandbox + linux network namespaces
mircea_popescu: sina sounds interesting as a prototype at any rate.
sina: mircea_popescu: it was more to prove the point at the time that Ulbricht was a numpty who couldn't secure his own ass
mircea_popescu: paging phf for ben_vulpes 's needs
mircea_popescu: sina wait, what ?
ben_vulpes: lol sina he got nabbed by insiders and physical tails what are you on about
sina: several times during operation he exposed the public IP of the hs
sina: due to shit sandboxing
sina: "oh apache listen on 127.0.0.1 now I am secure"
mircea_popescu: nfi what you folks are discussing. i meant, the metering irc bot would be interesting.
sina: ah yep, sorry I think we are one branch further down the tree
ben_vulpes off, robosprinklers pointed out the time and suddenly v. tired
mircea_popescu: now, a bunch of all-talk wedidits couldn't do whatever medium diff task. ok. how's this relate to silk road dood ?
sina: mircea_popescu: it was trying to prove at the time, that you could construct system in such a way that it can't expose its own info by amateur fuckups
sina: which Ulbricht had done several times
sina: is all
mircea_popescu: but... he wouldn't have used it.
sina: no, it certainly seems he wouldn't have :P
mircea_popescu: a ok then. that was the hair lol.
sina: at the time I was v interested in tor hs, before it became completely obvious that GCHQ/NSA had ability to look across the whole onion, and I just wanted to demonstrate hey it is actually possible to not ride your bike into the side of the bus
sina: "with this one simple trick" :P
mircea_popescu: the thing sucked a lot of naive youth time that way.
mircea_popescu: take Framedragger for instance.
sina: anyway, this was all just to answer ben_vulpes question about how you can make sure the "job" doesn't fuck with its billing supervisor
sina: same sandboxing techniques can be used to go a long way
mircea_popescu: on the basis of its record of accomplishments it's not even directly obvious if it was made by usg to orange revolution random shitholes, or rather to mentally swamp the not-entirely-dim lightbulbs in its own collegiate stables.
sina: I am sure asciilifeform would disagree of course, that it is remotely possible to ever secure anything :P
sina: mircea_popescu: *el paso theme song* why not both?
mircea_popescu: having the item running can't hurt in any case. if it gets owned, you learn a lesson. if it doesn't, it ... works.
mircea_popescu: and also fries!
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1676837 << tbh "domain ownership" is a joke anyway
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 04:15 mircea_popescu: wtf is wrong with you ?
Framedragger: i personally don't see any big diff between myblog.com and myblog.landlord.com
Framedragger: "the former has regulationz and policies to protect it!" doesn't sound very tmsr to me, hm
Framedragger: talk about promisetronic :)
Framedragger: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170629/#195 << this encourages me to revisit eu bezzlemoney funding application projects :p
scriba: Logged on 2017-06-29: [18:10:49] <mircea_popescu> this view is correct -- while usg stands, it is shameful for man to work. man must steal.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677304 << 100% tru. ("at least i got paid a bit for it", but myeah.)
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 09:18 mircea_popescu: take Framedragger for instance.
trinque: you didn't even get to bang Iris Buttcruft did you.
sina: good morning/evening sirs
sina: signing off
Framedragger: ikr :/
Framedragger: ftr i respect her a lot, tmsr and me will have to agree to disagree
trinque: and "tor is a thing, really, because reasons" ?
Framedragger: more like, i learned things from her
Framedragger: regardless of tor being a thing or not
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677141 << hadn't had a chance to pick it up for a bit; got time this weekend though. item I've got can maintain balances, send and mark-paid invoices. I think I'll handle deposits manually and call that a first cut, trb address tracking without a privkey isn't there yet.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 08:12 mircea_popescu: which depends on deedbot payments, which reminds me... how's that going trinque ?
trinque: Framedragger: that "crypto-anarchist" thing is exactly a continuation of the american notion of "omg it's a free country, can do whatever I want"
trinque: they use crypto to hide under the bed; they don't use it to swear, or be named.
Framedragger: this ad hominem (some ad hominems are completely valid, that i understand) is orthogonal to technical knowledge and its conveyance to other people. i know that there is no apolitical knowledge and you maybe can't separate the two, but i think sometimes it's possible, to an extent.
shinohai: "Wright also reiterated that he’s ready to take legal action against those who have ridiculed his claim of being the creator of Bitcoin, which he made back in 2016. "
shinohai: Will Qntra be sued? LOLZ
trinque: australia probably has laws against ridicule by now
trinque: Framedragger: you know, but you don't, eh?
trinque shrugs
Framedragger back later will respond
Framedragger: ah or not because probably no proper response. i mean, i ack the contradiction.
trinque: ftr it's nonsense to cry "ad hominem" when I'm criticizing *people*.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677329 << i'll bite. give example, what things.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:16 Framedragger: more like, i learned things from her
shinohai: !!v FA963D93B5905D6C2EB3F61CC90AAB86F55267292B2F6032C6127CDB5B0B1479
deedbot: shinohai rated TomServo 1 << #trilema Working on trb node
asciilifeform: Framedragger: srs q, btw, i know nothing about this supposed great guru other than 'pretty gurl posing for usg.tor photo ops, oh-so-oppressed, oh-so-orangerev' etc
shinohai: !!v B87C3ABDB63D9924CF135C5173B3DCB5C0BC03B518E3E67C3C3F488731263071
deedbot: shinohai updated rating of jurov from 1 to 2 << #trilema #eulora coinbr.com
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677316 << it is not unlike the diff b/w living in a train station bench vs a building to which you have title in manhattan
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 14:50 Framedragger: i personally don't see any big diff between myblog.com and myblog.landlord.com
asciilifeform: yes, bum can be dislodged from train station, and trump, theoretically, from trump tower. but in practice palpable diff.
shinohai: I promise if Framedragger ever gets her to show up here and !~tits to give here a +1 ^.^
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677070 << and that's when you realize that the ~adult~ gossipd is a 150x moar complicated item.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 07:41 sina: can change tcp for udp, can change sql for flatfile, can change python for syslang
asciilifeform: esp. the udp/luby piece (where ONE packet must somehow suffice for friend-or-foe, but it cannot >512byte! )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677110 << it still has access to... cache timings. and potentially undocumented cpu instructions ( laugh, but this happened and 'unhappened' repeatedly, and that's just on asciilifeform's watch )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 08:03 sina: it's a linux kernel feature you can use to limit which syscalls a program has access to...the original version of seccomp allowed only read()/write()/exit() syscalls
asciilifeform: isolation of 'naked x86', via whatever means, is a nonstarter.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677127 << unreadably massive turd written by svameritards, with million deps, what could possibly be the problem...
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 08:09 mircea_popescu: interesting. what was the problem with it ?
trinque: I'm curious about asciilifeform's 64bit DOS as a network-edge device.
asciilifeform: trinque: that was the original application as i saw it, btw
trinque: mmmmhm
asciilifeform: gossiptron filter
asciilifeform: ( packet ingress at whatever bandwidth of bus, from N sources; egress strictly for qualified ones )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677176 << believe or not, there is a reason for this: not so many activities tolerate arbitrarily unreliable, flickering '1024 chickens'
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 08:20 mircea_popescu: the typical botnet is what, a bunch of fridges sending ntp requests ?
asciilifeform: after the demise of cpu mining, ddos is afaik the only remaining
asciilifeform: sina, mircea_popescu, et al : pretty interesting thread.
mircea_popescu: i thought so too!
asciilifeform: i'ma bake an ada mphashtron also. but currently in 'one piece on conveyor at a time' mode.
asciilifeform: in the interest of actually finishing things.
mircea_popescu: no rush.
asciilifeform: ( how long we've been stuck with the kochtron, after knowing what it is ! disgraceful )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re "how many activities" -- it's not so clear to me, and moreover the consensus of hardware farmers (as opposed to coders) is that there's not much reason this absolutely should be the case, other than, to quote, "largely a lack of originality in the types of commands executed".
mircea_popescu: after all, your current machine flickers at 3GHz.
asciilifeform: that ain't the type of flicker contemplated
mircea_popescu: yes but now we're down the tree discussing types of flicker.
asciilifeform: chumpnet nodes randomly disappear (often with permanent loss of contents)
asciilifeform: there is not ( and probably provably cannot be ) a 'luby for computation'
mircea_popescu: the whole point is -- that it's not clear to me this is an unaproachable limit.
mircea_popescu: this in itself does not make it approachable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly the whole fucking point of "malleable encryption" is ~give or take to make lubby for computation.
asciilifeform: well yes
asciilifeform: the homomorphism derpism
mircea_popescu: hey, it wouldn't be a sour grape if it could be had.
asciilifeform: which is a comical pit of usgology, not a single item in the 'toolbox' actually works as described, or is based on anything other than wishful thinking
asciilifeform worked in this very racket for a spell, ended up quitting in disgust
mircea_popescu: anyway. even if you get to keep data but not computation, may be enough.
asciilifeform: now : certain processes that divide into arbitraily many - and, importantly, ~arbitrarily fungible~ slices -- are good fits for chumpnet
ben_vulpes entertained a sales pitch from a seller with some relevant snake oil recently
mircea_popescu: anything good ?
asciilifeform: ddos is one example, in the sense where it absolutely does not matter if a ~particular~ packet of liquishit gets sent or not
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform all your machine ever does is push pop and mult.
ben_vulpes: "the guys down the office keep giving us hardons with the homomorphic encryption stuff but every time we sit down to discuss numbers it turns out to be computationally infeasible so uh here's this rest layer over postgres so you don't have to touch the dirty dirty phone numbers yourselves"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you know this is strangely how "artificial intelligence" as well as "quantum computing" work out ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but observe, it pushes and pops in realtime and predictably.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but you got ecc ram. why ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever use a box over a 'martian' connection, that drops, say, 90% of packets
mircea_popescu: i actually have software for that!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to turn 99.99 into 999999
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: quite aware
mircea_popescu: turns out -- perfectly usuable.
ben_vulpes: to quote #programmer-therapy: "i just sat clicking at a recaptcha for five minutes before it would accept that i'm human."
mircea_popescu: why would they do that ?!
ben_vulpes: learned helplessness
mircea_popescu: well, at least there's (11.5/2)% or so black chicks among them yes ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: slow links are tolerable, and can be abstracted over ( consider how 'vi' came to exist, for instance. ) data loss, however, is harder to swallow
mircea_popescu: but lubby!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was specifically speaking of vi :)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: nah, but they make up for it with genderswappers
mircea_popescu: this is how conversations go -- if you're talking to alf, he's gonna mention it himself ; if talking to anyone else, you hit them over the head with it.
ben_vulpes: fungible minoridees dontchaknow
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes oh right right, fucking two midgets ~= fucking one swede. i forgot.
shinohai: If a black mayogendered tgirl writes code, will the universe implode?
mircea_popescu: ideally should be code about a list of dota characters.
ben_vulpes: shinohai: they don't make keyboards for fingers that large
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw i've been stabbing at the 1024 chickens thing since 2006 or so
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're lucky, some've been trying since 1955.
asciilifeform: it may be 'possible if you adjust your expectations'
mircea_popescu: kinda my notion also.
asciilifeform: for instance, bitcoin is an illustration of what you can do if you entirely forget about 'real time'
asciilifeform: but nobody's running, e.g., shells, on top of bitcoin.
asciilifeform: or irc.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter -- bitcoin is computed by a) 1024 flickering nodes that b) lose data or processing all the time.
asciilifeform: ( recall my 'irc over bitcoin' gedankenexperiment article )
mircea_popescu: definitionally, "what could you possibly do with a fridgenet???" "bitcoin"
asciilifeform: the ethertards illustrate the irresistible monkey lure of 'shell over bitcoin'
shinohai: Mine ethereum for scam ICO's of course.
mircea_popescu: the key elements are a) specify a quanta and b) let them either get to it or not. some will.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the principal boojum is not-being-transparent-to-enemy
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a shell is an artefact of technology, like say the "eingeer's" coal shovel.
mircea_popescu: not a fundamental.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, there is that. but... at least PARTS of bitcoin are not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'shell' used here in the general sense of 'apparatus that spits out responses to button presses in approx. psychological-realtime'
mircea_popescu: "engineer's" coal shovel. ie, back when engineer was dude driving steam engine.
asciilifeform: well yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. even so.
mircea_popescu: honestly, i expect the unix "Shell" is very much "poor man's ai". specifically "we can't get it to laugh at your jokes or suck your cock, but here's the best we can do, it's almost as if you're talking to it"
mircea_popescu: i have ~no expectation for machine to entertain me. all i expect is for it to do work.
trinque: shell's all wrong; you have no idea when you're getting a response in chickennet
mircea_popescu: trinque harem's same way.
trinque: async is always way easier to manage
trinque: also have to be able to verify responses yourself
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you don't need real time response, or monotonicity ( you made a change and it stays made , instead of randomly reverting itself like fart in the wind ) then existing botnet is more or less what you want.
asciilifeform: runs N copies of $payload, at random times, in random machines, etc.
asciilifeform: incidentally the 'pass around the latest rsa-signed payload from master' is sop there.
mircea_popescu: yes, but lot of room for improvement.
mircea_popescu: much like "existing isp is pretty much what you want", except not.
asciilifeform: it isn't clear to asciilifeform how much 'room for improvement' there is, unless one were to cough up solutions to a number of unsolved ( and possibly unsolvable ) mathematical boojums
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E74891A065005A1B653D9AE3EB601974954DE0367A00D2B645E8AC9A7747D645 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1420...2657 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '209.40.199.105 (ssh-rsa key from 209.40.199.105 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.jacobstoner.com. US MA)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E74891A065005A1B653D9AE3EB601974954DE0367A00D2B645E8AC9A7747D645 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1460...9767 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '209.40.199.105 (ssh-rsa key from 209.40.199.105 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.jacobstoner.com. US MA)
mircea_popescu: what are you here for!
asciilifeform: lol 403
mircea_popescu: i can talk with guys who don't know about boats any number of places!
mircea_popescu: but mah environmentits!
shinohai: asciilifeform: doesn't `jacobstoner` tell you all you need to know? >.<
asciilifeform: shinohai: mebbe it's the d00d who designed m16 rifle
asciilifeform: or nm, that was eugen stoner
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677276 << this is reminiscent of the 'i left a box with bait of 1 bitcent and nobody broke it, SEKOORE!!!1' -- you gotta ask 'was the game worth the candles'. an 0day can be worth from $100k to $maxint; why does your particular honeypot, merit blowing it.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 09:07 sina: once long ago, I ran a tor hidden service that allowed anyone to execute any command they liked on it, as a deanonymisation challenge
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but this also means you get secure sub 10k devices.
asciilifeform: they gotta be <$10k ~in the aggregate~ , for this syllogism
asciilifeform: ( all items breakable by particular $0day are to be treated as 'one device' )
mircea_popescu: sort-of how "the improved technology" of us army makes most countries immune to it. "what, you're gonna blow a 5mn tomahawk to destroy this here 20k hangar ? bwahahaha go right ahead, the chinese give 50k in cash rebates for each destroyed hangar they rebuild cuz you tomahawked."
mircea_popescu: and i'm not even fucking kidding, you.actually.get.cash.rebates.
asciilifeform: '50k bullets', if useful at all, are only so as 'fleet in being' -- 'damocle's sword could Smite You Any Day Of The Week' etc
mircea_popescu: like hookers exactly.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform problem is, nobody cares.
asciilifeform: at the point when nobody cares, you're done, like the siphonariae of byzantium
asciilifeform: ( which iirc the turks did not even bother to pick up and use )
mircea_popescu: this is a very typical ustardian headroach, deliberately educated into their brains like those african tribes with the flattened skulls.
mircea_popescu: "oh, gotta worry! oh, gotta be careful!" bitch... i dun care.
mircea_popescu: "you have to plan for your future" "how about your daugther plans for parenthood"
asciilifeform: the wunderwaffen, when it works, works exactly like the auschwitz guard's machinegun - 'can't shoot all of the prisoners, but can shoot any particular in 1 go'. and fails in exactly same gametheoretical way.
asciilifeform: ( see the old treblinka thread )
mircea_popescu: point remains -- "the only available 0day costs > 100k" is a legitimate specification-of-security.\
mircea_popescu: "do not put over $x in aggregate on this system" is pretty much the only way you'd do it anyway.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mnope. how about 'the only 0day is an asteroid'
asciilifeform: that's the spec for ffa, for instance.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so your car has a special indicator, binary, E/F ?
mircea_popescu: goes from full to empty in a yard and then it stops the next yard ?
asciilifeform: i dun follow
asciilifeform: 'secure' is a binary.
mircea_popescu: just like tank fillness is binary, right ? "is it full or isn;'t it"
asciilifeform: either system accepts an unanticipated input and produces unanticipated rape, or it does not.
mircea_popescu: in practice, "what's this tank worth" doesn't depend on "there is NO ARROW THAT COULD PIERCE THIS SHIELD!!!" nonsense.
asciilifeform: and before you do, or anybody mentions godel, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663960
a111: Logged on 2017-05-31 16:28 asciilifeform: and if someone wants to mention godel etc -- ethical engineer MAY NOT cite godel, EVER, just as a police detective MAY NOT cite the supernatural and admit a hypothesis of miraculous theft from a safe
asciilifeform: the duty of engineer is to ignore godel. like soldier's is to ignore death.
mircea_popescu: every tank can be flattened, and yet i can make comparative judgements re tiger vs mathilde.
asciilifeform: again no analogy from physical objects is suitable here.
asciilifeform: because we are discussing an ideal object.
asciilifeform: like theorem.
asciilifeform: there are no gradations in validity of theorem.
mircea_popescu: in fact, no medicine yet devised bestows endless life as a young man ; and yet i can say sulfmetoxazole better for gonorhea than cough syrup.
asciilifeform: no physical beams of steel to fatigue, in theorem.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there are in fact gradations of validity in theorem, and you use them daily.
asciilifeform: nope. 'gradated' theorems are called 'conjectures' instead.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 16:05 asciilifeform: there is not ( and probably provably cannot be ) a 'luby for computation'
asciilifeform: conjecture!
asciilifeform: these live, and die.
asciilifeform: or turn into theorems
mircea_popescu: oooo, that's what it was! check you out, YOU introduced the word theorem to describe what we were discussing, and then conveniently YOU point out YOU used the wrong word ?
mircea_popescu: tsk tsk. is this a 0 day being sold here ?
asciilifeform: 'probably provably' == 'conjecture'
asciilifeform: 'sqrt(2) is irrational' -- theorem
mircea_popescu: in this case <asciilifeform> like theorem. is entirely spurious non-contribution to teh discussion.
mircea_popescu: because no, by your own lights within five minutes, NOT "like theorem". unlike theorem.
mircea_popescu: like "in practice", ie like conjecture.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja read the beginning, say, of ffa. there's a proof of correctness for the adder, for instance.
asciilifeform: ( tableau proof )
asciilifeform: so motherfucking theorem.
mircea_popescu: the ~only way to specify the security of a certain, definite, given system is still "good for up to $x btc"
mircea_popescu: which makes the "0 days cost X" a legitimate statement of the ~security~ of a system.
mircea_popescu: which is what we were talking aboot.
asciilifeform: given that the system includes a physical component, this is reasonable
asciilifeform: like 'bridge is good for T tonnes of tank'
mircea_popescu: what system exists without physical component ? something running on uci ?
mircea_popescu: i know of no other thing that'd make the cut
asciilifeform: well this is the mega-question of our time neh
asciilifeform: to what extent can ideal object (proggy) be conceptually cut from the physical 'mortal soil'
mircea_popescu: i suppose so. but eg "power diff analysis" very much "leverage of the thingness of item"
asciilifeform: speaking of which, i've been wanting to discuss 'simplest cpu' for a while.
mircea_popescu: go right ahead, i'm having a sammich.
asciilifeform: there exists ( in the sense where asciilifeform thought of it, but then went to dig in the dusty libraries and discovered ancient tomes ) a thing called 'tta'
asciilifeform: 'transport triggered architecture'
asciilifeform: idea is, 'cpu' that only knows how to do 1 thing:
asciilifeform: instructions consist of, say, pairs of 64bit words
asciilifeform: word A is 'source' and B is 'destination'
asciilifeform: cpu reads from source (which can be a slow device, it waits for readysignal) and writes (ditto) to B.
asciilifeform: the current instruction ptr is, e.g., address 0.
asciilifeform: all other operations exist in the form of devices that hang off this bus, right next to the memory
asciilifeform: so for instance if you want to load in a constant somewhere, you gotta read it from the constanttron (which is some range of addrs)
asciilifeform: so adder, multer, etc, etc all exist simply as devices that hang from 1 set of wires.
asciilifeform: this scheme is interesting for strictly 1 reason :
asciilifeform: you can make this out of discrete logic.
asciilifeform: without worrying about path lengths, delays.
mircea_popescu: it sounded like signal processor at first, but then it kinda went bent. wouldn't this be damned slow ?
asciilifeform: the quick sub-devices will run quickly, the slow-slowly.
mircea_popescu: the one thing that comes to mind is that the correct approach is for all devices hanging off bus to always run, so that when cpu gets 0xaa 0xbb then the mult mults, the adder adds, and nobody knows WHICH of them the processor peeked for the result.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well yes !
asciilifeform: is the point.
mircea_popescu: this would be automatic-constant-time cpu, run any software you want.
asciilifeform: naturally they 'always run'
asciilifeform: and you can likewise 'chain' the 'cpus' with ~0 effort.
mircea_popescu: well, tree them.
asciilifeform: plug'em like children's blocks
mircea_popescu: the compiler for arbitrary this arch would be one helluva piece of gnarl.
asciilifeform: not necessarily.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not "naturally" they always run, since "ready signals" were mentioned.
mircea_popescu: i'd prefer it if this had no out band signalling. at all.
asciilifeform: 'ready signals' are how you finesse the problem of subcomponents of different speeds.
mircea_popescu: which is why my mind went to "would run slow" : cpu clock is largest-hanger-clock + 1
asciilifeform: it simply means 'if yer trying to read from me, you gotta wait or go do something else for a spell'
asciilifeform: 'want to write to me? wait a bit'
mircea_popescu: yes but this then leaks most of the gains
asciilifeform: the gain is the minimality of the hardware.
asciilifeform: could make nsa-free cpu out of stock ecl logic, a few dozen ics.
mircea_popescu: the real gain is if this thing could be signal-less
asciilifeform: and run at ~modern capacities.
mircea_popescu: this sounds like engineer problem, really. make the multer same speed as adder.
mircea_popescu: "but how ?" "give it cancer wtf do i care."
asciilifeform: it is pretty easy to give the fast devices cancer and make'em wait for the slow.
asciilifeform: this gives you cpu from 1960s soviet comp
asciilifeform: because some slow ops are veeeery sloow
asciilifeform: (e.g. disk)
asciilifeform: as in, 3 orders of magnitude slower than others.
mircea_popescu: perhaps better solutions also available.
trinque: for the slower cogitaters trying to keep up, this guy has two registers? operations hanging off the executor read from these?
asciilifeform: trinque: elaborate?
mircea_popescu: trinque yes. asciilifeform he's trying to visualize how the damned thing talks to the world.
trinque: where is ADD getting its terms to add.
mircea_popescu: basically it's a signal processor someone dropped on the floor.
asciilifeform: the traditional scheme is that a read happens when the thing being read drops its busy line; and a write begins when when the 'victim' drops his busy signal, and ends when he drops it again after raising.
mircea_popescu: none of that. just poll at fixed speed. that is the clock.
mircea_popescu: 1khz or 1thz, whatever you can get the hardware to do.
asciilifeform: you then run at the disk's 1khz.
asciilifeform: or get garbage.
mircea_popescu: or don't put a disk in this.
mircea_popescu: or put an array of 64k disks.
asciilifeform: there'll be a khz item in there, regardless.
mircea_popescu: not if there's any real engineers involved!
asciilifeform: i/o, for instance.
trinque: my shitty ram claims to run at 3.2ghz
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fuck that, wire speed.
asciilifeform: you want to run at the baud rate of the terminal, lol?
mircea_popescu: trinque ramdisk entirely practicable by now.
trinque: sitting on 32gb of the stuff atm
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nono, there's this wire, and it does 1thz, and you connect w/e you want to it, go ahead.
asciilifeform: has mircea_popescu ever seen a multi-Ghz box-to-box wire ?
asciilifeform: ever touched, with own hands ?
mircea_popescu: takes "flickers in and out of existence" to a whole new level.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes.
mircea_popescu: it was much shorter and slightly thicker than my penis.
asciilifeform satisfied that mircea_popescu saw
asciilifeform: anyway the badnoose for mircea_popescu is that you're stuck with the busy signal because that's what the 's' in sram or sdram stands for. the synchronicity.
mircea_popescu: gets special driver.
asciilifeform: it's how you read/write the actual stable signal you put/got , rather than liquishit.
mircea_popescu: to simply "run it by the clock"
asciilifeform: clock ain't magic, it does not teleport to whole circuit instantaneously
mircea_popescu: oh fucking hell.
asciilifeform: ( sadly. )
mircea_popescu: i knew this dream was too good to last.
asciilifeform: i'd luvvv a clock like that, btw
mircea_popescu: motherfucking signals.
asciilifeform: it'd have made FG much easier to make, for instance
mircea_popescu: yest i wanted to make myself batido, the swiss iutem was fullo of some health crap the girls drink, so i was whatever. then later new girl emitted "it's clean now!" signal and i was like "bitch, srsly ? you're... signalling me now ?!"
asciilifeform: ( FG has ~three~ clock domains, and it was a bitch. exercise for reader: which 3 ??? )
mircea_popescu: took her most of the day to even get her head wrapped around what exactly she's not understanding about what happened.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1F17A9C8CCC3C1A4EEC6272C05DADC9B012D9D693A4E48744B2FC5C3D58A9DC6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1511...9987 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '209.237.225.235 (ssh-rsa key from 209.237.225.235 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (235.toad.com. US CA)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1F17A9C8CCC3C1A4EEC6272C05DADC9B012D9D693A4E48744B2FC5C3D58A9DC6 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1669...7373 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '209.237.225.235 (ssh-rsa key from 209.237.225.235 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (235.toad.com. US CA)
asciilifeform: holy mother of fuck
asciilifeform: john gilmore
mircea_popescu: did he croak ?
asciilifeform: eff, 'cypherpunks', cygnus, alt.* , gnuradio...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: toad.com is him
asciilifeform: somebody shoot him a mail ????
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ?
mircea_popescu: eh, let him google his name like any other noob.
asciilifeform: '...have spent a lot of time working on crypto export control issues. led the team that built the world's first publicly announced DES Cracker...' etc
mircea_popescu: !!key toad
deedbot: Not registered.
asciilifeform: 'The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.' also him
mircea_popescu: i was mocking that the other day!
asciilifeform: 'Last updated November 27, 2013.' mebbe dead/?
mircea_popescu: (as an aside, i don't expect any of these fucktards, gilmore, bernstein, whatever, even remotely give enough of a shit about anything not tittlating their anal orifices, BUT! it'd help me fucking immensely if they actually were in, because of sybil considerations. but they dun wanna, becausew why should the world not stink.)
mircea_popescu: a wot with a few respectable old timers in would be significantly stronger than their individual market value.
asciilifeform: sumbody with a track record of folx actually answering... plox ping the d00d
mircea_popescu: lol alf's gambler fallacy :D
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 14:50 Framedragger: i personally don't see any big diff between myblog.com and myblog.landlord.com
asciilifeform: to revisit the tta cpu thing : i investigated 'can haz ecl?' and found reasonably priced 4+GHz discrete logic
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677321 << the problem with one's life is that pay's never enough in retrospect.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 14:51 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677304 << 100% tru. ("at least i got paid a bit for it", but myeah.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's reasonably priced in numbers rather than unicode ?
asciilifeform: 5-10bux for a 8bit register, in q.1
mircea_popescu: what about eg multer ?
asciilifeform: no such thing
asciilifeform: you make it from discretes.
mircea_popescu: o boy. what size would a mpfhf capable item occupy ?
asciilifeform: breadbox
mircea_popescu: and phuctor ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what do you think.
mircea_popescu: cost turns out to have been unreliably measured.
asciilifeform: phuctor is not the objective imho
mircea_popescu: agreed, just getting an idea.
mircea_popescu: this tta would cost more in floorspace rent than in object items.
asciilifeform: objective is a minimal core of absolute nonusgicity
asciilifeform: suitable for, e.g., rsa.
mircea_popescu: rsa is > mpfhf
asciilifeform: capable of working on a few dozen kB of working set.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rsa looks harder than it is because of the ludicrously short machineword of the pc
mircea_popescu: oh you can do that, hm
asciilifeform: it is possible to multiply, for instance, in O(1)
asciilifeform: if you have longer words.
mircea_popescu: make a 4096 word machine and be done wit hthe shit
asciilifeform: what do you think ffa is prototype of !
mircea_popescu: yes this is a great idea actually!
asciilifeform: 'p' is simply software emulator of a $widebit machine.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, this breadbox may qwell be clock-speed fast when doing rsa, none of those second bs of python running on 8 bit "optimal" intel-me
asciilifeform: aaaaha.
mircea_popescu: "what do you think 4Gz means, bitch ? you do 4 billion rsa per second."
asciilifeform: sorta what i've been swimming towards for past yr or 2
mircea_popescu: a breadbox like that'd be actually worth buying.
asciilifeform: theretically only need adder in there.
asciilifeform: ( shifts you get 'for free' )
mircea_popescu: lot of adders as good as a multer for a blind bat naimean ?
asciilifeform: aha, see the 'egyptological' ffa posted last month
mircea_popescu: wink wink nudge nudge does your box go ? does it go ?
mircea_popescu: is it a sport ?
asciilifeform: aaaaha.
mircea_popescu: definitely an item for gossipd.
asciilifeform: also nicely illustrates 'specificity of diddling'. you buy a bucket of 74xxxxolade. enemy wants to diddle'em en route -- but which ONES? and how ? ( he has nfi where each set of gates will end up going in the scheme )
mircea_popescu: "oh, quantum computer can like, totally break things and what was it ?" ehehehe
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's by now a well established fact through republican practice, this original idea that "all the benefits of non-usg, you get by simply making non-consumer choices".
asciilifeform: the first step is to reconsider the traditional 'konsoomer assumptions'
mircea_popescu: "don't try to use the king's own mail system (with incantations! and lemon juice!) to get your dope -- not have problems with getting your dope". and so on.
asciilifeform: e.g. 'do you really need a box that plays solitaire? maybe one that simply adds 32768-bit numbers reasonably quickly and outputs answer at 115200 baud, will suffice !' etc
mircea_popescu: this is a fine candidate for nicdom also.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-14 19:05 asciilifeform: not only could it, but there's been a d00d serving up his www on a pic16f84, via slip, since 1990s...
mircea_popescu: there is promise in the hardware sea!
asciilifeform: well most of it in the 'adjust yer expectations' direction
asciilifeform: at least until we have something like a fab
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677323 << implying someone'd want to ; which...
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 14:54 trinque: you didn't even get to bang Iris Buttcruft did you.
mircea_popescu: cheaper better looking eagerlier ass awaits barefoot in the jungle.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677329 << nothing wrong with that, and there's no requirement for a unified saint book either.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:16 Framedragger: more like, i learned things from her
asciilifeform: i suspect that we differ on subj
asciilifeform: 'jungle ass'
asciilifeform: vs buttcrafts
mircea_popescu: have you seen the piece of ass in discussion ? isis lovecruft chick ?
asciilifeform: not sure
asciilifeform: but iirc it was posted here, and was a noncow
mircea_popescu: well, do you agree that had you seen her AND had your reaction been "omfg i gotta tap dat ass!" you... would be sure ?
asciilifeform: hey Framedragger do you have a photo ?
asciilifeform: Framedragger: of subj
mircea_popescu: his google's broken, this guy.
mircea_popescu: !~google fappening isis lovecruft
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: isis agora lovecruft (@ isislovecruft ) | Twitter: <https://twitter.com/isislovecruft%3Flang%3Den>; isis agora lovecruft on Twitter: "Jacob Appelbaum sexually assaulted ...: <https://twitter.com/isislovecruft/status/743131291093209089%3Flang%3Den>; isis agora lovecruft on Twitter: "Yay, @rustconf! Asking permission ...: <https://twitter.com/isislovecruft/status/874639931330764800>
asciilifeform: lol all i see is a leg...
mircea_popescu: a leg is as good as a twat for a blind bad
asciilifeform: i'ma have to raise the busy wire on this one
mircea_popescu: NAIMEAN ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677331 << lotta ground to cover yeah huh. aite.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:18 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677141 << hadn't had a chance to pick it up for a bit; got time this weekend though. item I've got can maintain balances, send and mark-paid invoices. I think I'll handle deposits manually and call that a first cut, trb address tracking without a privkey isn't there yet.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677336 << ahahaha he's going to take LEGAL ACTION is he now ?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:21 shinohai: "Wright also reiterated that he’s ready to take legal action against those who have ridiculed his claim of being the creator of Bitcoin, which he made back in 2016. "
mircea_popescu: "hey usg criminal organisation, would you like to back up the false claims made by some random new york hotel whore/maid you picked up specifically to make those false claims ???"
mircea_popescu: "yes, i think we might!"
mircea_popescu: "praise pantsuit trans-jeebus, justice was served!"
mircea_popescu: the only question left is if apple could buy iLegal action and make a country out of it.
asciilifeform: this already happened!11
mircea_popescu: o right.
mircea_popescu: i'm sorry. o wright.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677335 << not dispositive or anything, not even relevant to anything, but now i'm totally curious : what was this knowledge even ?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:20 Framedragger: this ad hominem (some ad hominems are completely valid, that i understand) is orthogonal to technical knowledge and its conveyance to other people. i know that there is no apolitical knowledge and you maybe can't separate the two, but i think sometimes it's possible, to an extent.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing whatever wrong with "woman took me to sushi. it was a restaurant, she didn't even cook it, or work there, or pay. and yes people have been having sushi far longer than they've been having hamburger but it was my first time and i'll always remember her fondly, notwithstanding she died of an overdose while trying to rob a kindergarten at gunpoint (she thought she was inside the bank next door)."
asciilifeform: hey it's how folx grow fond of their, e.g. mothers
mircea_popescu: this is why people even get their own fucking head and their own history in the first place -- so that such great stories can occur.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. "bland, rather stupid woman. but she could walk back when i was six months old"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, re that wright "i totally was fondled by bitcoin in a hotel room he was occupying" imbecile : i suppose the backup claim of "well, bitcoin now patented! terrorists!" just in case "everything else" keeps blowing up is being "serviced".
mircea_popescu: it's an entirely spurious claim, of course, but then it's an entirely spurious criminal org making it, so.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: d00d's been at this for years neh
asciilifeform: patents & all
mircea_popescu: ~the time they got bitchslapped so hard they bled internally.
mircea_popescu: before that, they were still in denial, "oh, it's just a nose bleed, we get these naturally, fist was incidental".
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677339 << tell you what, i know but i don't that computers suck.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:22 trinque: Framedragger: you know, but you don't, eh?
mircea_popescu: to clean the shit gotta be able to straddle the shitsty.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wright, chowdhra, et al would have considerably moar lulzpotential if they ever had gotten hold of, say, a key or two
trinque: can go into the sty, but avoid fondness for shit as a coping mechanism
mircea_popescu: gotta fuck something.
asciilifeform: trinque: often it suffices to burn down the sty, not to clean it.
asciilifeform: trinque: consider, i am not 'fixing' kochpgp
mircea_popescu: yeah, moar aerosol shit please x.x
asciilifeform: a skilled cremater aerosolizes nuffin!111
mircea_popescu: there's also that.
asciilifeform: ( history of modern crematorium is pretty lulzy, and enlightening )
mircea_popescu: it is, at that!
asciilifeform: the 'afterburner' for instance. mega-invention.
mircea_popescu: also -- how expensive it was for most of its history.
asciilifeform: ( not to be confused with same item in aviation )
mircea_popescu: counterintuitively, cheaper to bury.
asciilifeform: i worked ( still on occasion do ) with elderly phd d00d who grew up in rural india , first childhood job - collecting, drying cowshit to fuel funeral pyres with
asciilifeform: hey, joules are joules !
asciilifeform: fuel -- costs.
mircea_popescu: whereas calories are calories -- body worth something to ant.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677355 << nothing wrong with either lobe of that.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:48 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677070 << and that's when you realize that the ~adult~ gossipd is a 150x moar complicated item.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677358 << no fully documented cpu was made in the past 30 years ; and possibly at all.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:50 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677110 << it still has access to... cache timings. and potentially undocumented cpu instructions ( laugh, but this happened and 'unhappened' repeatedly, and that's just on asciilifeform's watch )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hence the ttacpu thread.
asciilifeform: ftr i'm satisfied that 6502 was fully known.
asciilifeform: the unfortunate bit that it is ~useless for crypto
mircea_popescu: sure, small items like that.
asciilifeform: ( tiny width and no multiplier )
mircea_popescu: pretty sure it was peeled and photograpphed my multiple teams.
asciilifeform: not only photographed, but there is a 'chemical' level sim of it
mircea_popescu: fits in head has bene-fits
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 17:15 asciilifeform: 5-10bux for a 8bit register, in q.1
asciilifeform: in case anybody gives a damn.
asciilifeform: ecl is a 'black art' incidentally. for instance, it runs 'backwards' voltagewise, with ground-as-positive, and needs negative supply
asciilifeform: but interestingly is extremely well-suited for crypto in particular : an ecl gate consumes SAME current regardless of what it is doing
asciilifeform: ( switching, holding 'high', or holding 'low' )
a111: Logged on 2017-05-16 01:55 asciilifeform: for bonus 'ourdemocracy' decapitation, bake it out of ECL logic
asciilifeform: in other relateds, SY100E137 is rated for 1.8GHz (8bit programmable counter), ~$6 in qty=1.
asciilifeform: a basic ttatron needs maybe 6 of these, plus a few glue gates.
asciilifeform: and a modest sram.
asciilifeform: arithmetical operations can be tabletronic.
asciilifeform: ( load the tables into sram on warmup... )
asciilifeform: whole thing could run under a hundy.
asciilifeform: and have effective horsepower of, say, a 50Mhz 486, in the end.
asciilifeform: which is > than sufficient for many immediate purposes.
shinohai: Oh lawd this is fucking brilliant: http://hoaxchain.com/aboutus1.html
asciilifeform: in fact, here's a new (afaik) scheme for tta. an instruction is THREE addresses, X, Y, Z. and it performs Z := X xor Y.
asciilifeform: you can demonstrate that this is turing-complete.
asciilifeform: and reasonably parsimonious of clock.
asciilifeform: shinohai: 'Above all Dr Craig Wright is humble, kind and generous. Although its widely accepted that the Bitcoin developers are brilliant engineers. A major problem is that the developers have horrible and nasty personalities. Dr Wright is generous, humble, calm, polite and above all nice. Bitcoin will therefore hugely benefit from Dr Wright returning to more actively participate in Bitcoin engineering and research. ' didjaknow!!
shinohai: Scroll down! :D
asciilifeform: shinohai: 'breaks parody horizon'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677810 << what the fguck is this contemptible cunt drool.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 19:43 asciilifeform: shinohai: 'Above all Dr Craig Wright is humble, kind and generous. Although its widely accepted that the Bitcoin developers are brilliant engineers. A major problem is that the developers have horrible and nasty personalities. Dr Wright is generous, humble, calm, polite and above all nice. Bitcoin will therefore hugely benefit from Dr Wright returning to more actively participate in Bitcoin engineering and research. ' didjaknow!!
mircea_popescu: who wrote this shit ?
asciilifeform: 'parody' it claims
asciilifeform: shinohai: consider vodka -- is better habit than reddit
asciilifeform: ( if one must. )
mircea_popescu: or whippets.
shinohai: Didn't find it on reddit .... twitter scraper found it
asciilifeform: y'know shinohai it's still a reddit even if you made it from whole cloth with own hands
asciilifeform: 'by their fruits you shall know'em'
asciilifeform: don't drink from the sewer hatch, folx. it's no well.
mircea_popescu: yet someone gotta do it
asciilifeform: truly gotta ?
asciilifeform: what'll happen if nobody were to ?
mircea_popescu: you know how you know it's a sewer hatch ?
mircea_popescu: some dude in your nose drank it in
asciilifeform: usually smell suffices
asciilifeform: but sure.
asciilifeform: in earlier lulz, 'Max Count Frequency Min=1800 Typ=2200 Max=---' << pretty interesting spec. not a thing i've previously encountered.
asciilifeform: quite appetizing.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 17:31 asciilifeform: hey Framedragger do you have a photo ?
trinque: > feminist critical theory
trinque: closed.
Framedragger: (had a flatmate who was into that for long, had some good engaging convos)
Framedragger: she did physics and literature, what
Framedragger: (isis, i mean)
Framedragger: but anyway
trinque: ah well on the basis of your feelings and coy avoidance I'll suppose it's a thing then.
Framedragger: well your pseudpsychoanalysis is always spot-on, so would appreciate explanation re avoidance
mircea_popescu: it's what they call it, "feminist" bla bla.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677344 << use of some specific datastructures (e.g. - and yes uni didn't cover yes - yes, shame on me - hashrings). as well as coding style (yes).
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:38 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677329 << i'll bite. give example, what things.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like nigger-rigging is what they call us navy works.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger but you're still vague. what's a coding style ?
trinque: "I supposedly read some books, and now listen to me prattle about myself while I stand on the books"
Framedragger: well the video is technical-only
mircea_popescu: trinque would "Scholastics" sound any better ? cuz it's thje same thing, unchanged since the uni was invented, by the turks, in 1200.
trinque: 'engaging' is a tripeword marketing people use when there's no content
Framedragger: but whatever
mircea_popescu: Framedragger do believe i have no intention or tendency here, i'm just curious.
Framedragger: trinque: i read said flatmate's dissertation on critical writing and provided lots of criticism, it was nice, not sure what else to say
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: let me recall
trinque: nice how?
Framedragger: basically she inherited this terribad codebase, "bridgedb". she rewrote parts of it (possibly finishing the rest but i didn't stay in touch), and fixed all kinds of weird threading issues by effective use of semaphores etc, which is nothing special, but the result is just so damn easy to read
Framedragger: and maintanable.
Framedragger: i don't mean easy as in lazy, i mean that there was no point for the historical bad to be so clumsy
mircea_popescu: and you wrote the original ?
Framedragger: trinque: she agreed that "yes i was quoting here because i liked the quote, didn't understand in depth", many times, while at the same time i didn't think it was all nonsense. i would have to dig up to actually provide examples, which i suppose yes would be nice.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: hehe, no
Framedragger: but i got to see both
mircea_popescu: and so this was a learning experience for you, because semaphores as a concept ?
trinque: Framedragger: you're avoiding spilling the "what was not all nonsense"
mircea_popescu: well, might be the first time he's confronted with this issue.
trinque: ample logs of me smacking my nose on same!
Framedragger: "heavily documented and commented without useless comments code", effective use of OOP in python without using classes just for the sake of it, tackling a technologically entangled thing (i could explain but basically there is this "bridge db" which gives "bridges" at some churn rate, but bridges come in different "buckets" (different obfuscation protocol etc),
Framedragger: and hence need multiple hashrings (which ensure uniformly random distribution of them), etc.; many moving parts.)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger see now you're being useful. because the republican notion of "those people" is gendercomits for comments.
Framedragger: trinque: yeah i acknowledge that. well fuck, i need to actually try to respond, but for that i'd need to take a look at subject again. which i can do and probably should do
mircea_popescu: so basically, something more in the vein of literate programming than in the vein of lolzjavascript
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677848 << lol, what was it, Used Hashtable While Female ?
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 20:37 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677344 << use of some specific datastructures (e.g. - and yes uni didn't cover yes - yes, shame on me - hashrings). as well as coding style (yes).
asciilifeform likes to say to pet, 'but you did it While Female !'
mircea_popescu: and she likes to hear, im sure.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: got shown shit effectively while also staring at relevant places of codebase so it was all contextualised well.
Framedragger: s/shown/explained/
mircea_popescu: cool deal.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: do you realize how 'hour of battle' this sounds ?
asciilifeform: ( the sheckley story )
Framedragger: and yeah i guess just literate programming. i was *even younger*, recall
mircea_popescu: no need to apologize for preference and inclination.
asciilifeform: ( or as rebaked by mircea_popescu , http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning )
mircea_popescu: the whole requirement is to be able to explain, naught more.
asciilifeform: recall the thread where mircea_popescu wrote 'what if you found something in your living room that you hadn't put there'
asciilifeform: 'treat contents of your head with no less respect than the sofa'
asciilifeform: or how did it go.
asciilifeform: but back to the living room, Framedragger there is quite clearly something in yer head that you hadn't put there, you might want to figure out what it is.
asciilifeform: mebbe the chix was THAT hot. i can't say, i only saw the leg!111
Framedragger: check the video i guess, tastes can differ heh
mircea_popescu: i like how chix is a singular for him, like minx
asciilifeform: not ugly
asciilifeform watched a coupla frames of linked film
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677861 << if indeed this took place, it is still work for a reasonably middling undergrad, rather than world class
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 20:40 Framedragger: basically she inherited this terribad codebase, "bridgedb". she rewrote parts of it (possibly finishing the rest but i didn't stay in touch), and fixed all kinds of weird threading issues by effective use of semaphores etc, which is nothing special, but the result is just so damn easy to read
asciilifeform: so not much
asciilifeform: dancing bear.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/HBtxo << in other piratelulz
asciilifeform: phf will find ^ esp. entertaining, i suspect
asciilifeform: 'coworkingspaces'
mircea_popescu: showing cunt to passerby also work for middling adolescewnt female, not world class. and yet...
asciilifeform: 'investigation is being conducted by Maureen P. King, Preethi Krishnamurthy, Neil Hendelman, and Sandeep Satwalekar' << such india
asciilifeform: ( revisiting upstack: one sad irony of beelzebub : the world-class chix, e.g. emmy noether, tend to be square faces. testosterone will do that. )
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677636 << My que of emails to send to the dead/undead is long and vita brevis
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 17:08 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: this was a d00d who's actually famous
asciilifeform: arguably more than, e.g., rms
mircea_popescu: noblesse oblige.
asciilifeform: and not famous derp, either, but one of the original folx pushing, e.g., working pgp
mircea_popescu: he should have been here. arguably more than, eg, rms.
BingoBoingo: Then maybe famous guy like asciilifeform of Loper OS fame ought to email? You've got more history in the field.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mine seems to work with 'minus sign'
mircea_popescu: from experience, famous doods aren't worth the paper they'll be buried in
BingoBoingo: I am finding similar results. Seems email isn't functional for anything but "subscription" market that was never subscribed to
mircea_popescu: anyone recall that "protocols of elders of zion" equivalent, "why not hire inerlligent people" ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: short of getting on airplane and knocking on his door, i have no further idea
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: frederick the great ? or somebody else's 'don't hire genius'
mircea_popescu: early 1900s americana.
BingoBoingo just back from day in the sun and dirt, memory still in lossy mode
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly h. ford
mircea_popescu: anyway. is passage there about "football glories" who expect they already did their work and will be getting conference chicken free for life.
mircea_popescu: "famous people".
mircea_popescu is sick of "famous people" like of crab apples. let them sit in some other latrine with their "oh i lost my pgp key 20 years ago" zimmerman and their "i dedicate my life to raising impudent street urchins as if they were white people" bernstein and their "oh hi, rng ?" koch and their "o btw, i lied about that laptop" rms everything else.
mircea_popescu: not a single one, you understand me, out of dozens examined, proved upon examination to be more than wasp spit and dung.
mircea_popescu: i've a better chance to find actual human among the barefoot jungle nicas than among the usgistani "famous people".
mircea_popescu: and this isn't even getting into the whole layer of "i make a webcomic about shit i don't grok" "famous" retardation
Framedragger: possibly fiction, but good fiction
Framedragger: ah, you quoted the athletes part quite exactly, and 'tis a nice passage
mircea_popescu: memory works on occasion!
sina: morning tmsr
sina: ah mp
shinohai: Buenas tardes
sina: hi shinohai
sina: mircea_popescu: time to mess with gossipthing?
mircea_popescu: sorry, will be a little.
sina: np
sina: so fucking cold here!
sina: for a sydneysider, 8 degrees C is essentially the siberian tundra
sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677338 << hey we're a Commonwealth country so I can't blame you for thinking such but we aren't as bad as the UK on this front! :P
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:21 trinque: australia probably has laws against ridicule by now
mircea_popescu: i thought all you had was wilting heat and scorpions
sina: we def got the wilting heat in summer, and little scorpions as you approach the equator
mircea_popescu: my stereotypes are offen't.
sina: but you're still allowed to ridicule Craig Wright here
mircea_popescu: are you allowed to peruse drawings of little squares labeled mom "fucking" littler squares labeled daugther and/or dog ?
sina: and despite our local media being incapable of discerning an utter charlatan from a block of wood, those who could, did
sina: nobodies gonna kick down your door for watching pornhub or even bestialityhub
mircea_popescu: to my eyes, the true outstanding imbecillity of the remains of the british empire is this, taking the ustardian pretense that "child pornography" and turning it to the point of "CARTOON!!!! child pornography".
mircea_popescu: that they're thereby negating the very pretense of justification never seems to have occured to them. oh, really, does it harm little drawings ?
sina: ah childporn. yeah they come down on that kind of stuff very hard here
mircea_popescu: this is like saying an idiot ignoring the door and trying to walk through the wall "Came very hard". the hardness isn't the point, the utter idiocy kinda overwhelms it.
mircea_popescu: fucking gumby's, the lot.
sina: to clarify, are you trying to make the point that childporn shouldn't be prosecuted? or that the definition of childporn is overlybroad
mircea_popescu: i am making the point that irrespective of whether some group should be oppressed or not, the "justification" proferred for the oppression is ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: much saner to put all gays in jail because "they offend baby jezuz" than to put all pedos in jail because "they harm little kids"
sina: it wasn't all that long ago that we were doing just that in fact
mircea_popescu: it wasn't.
mircea_popescu: but be that as it may -- the notion that a drawing can be at issue is not only just as stupid as usual, but also crits. now you don't even have any sort of available "i really believe this crap" defense.
mircea_popescu: clearly, there's nothing therew.
sina: well one can argue that all of the lines in "society" are essentially of the same arbitrary construct
sina: it just so happens that this is where one of those lines is laid today
mircea_popescu: one could argue that, but not very successfully. try and argue it re drugs for instance.
sina: um sure? so the line for some drugs is drawn *here*, and other drugs drawn *there*, and depending on a similarly "nothing there" criteria, some peoples lives are ruined and others enriched
mircea_popescu: did you see the economic discussion of the matter in the logs ?
mircea_popescu: or did you read the "how to be a pimp" piece on trilema ?
sina: I think at this point, given countries like Portugal which have decriminalised a lot of drugstuff, it's clear the lines for drugs is just as arbitrary
mircea_popescu: i dun see it.
sina: rly? because in Portugal posession of an ounce of weed is nothing, here it's up to officer discretion (above 1oz is trafficking!), in US if you're black that can be jail, in Indonesia you could get death
sina: clearly it's arbitrary
mircea_popescu: right now it's morning where you live, afternoon where i live and even night in some places. clearly daytimes are arbitrary.
mircea_popescu: wtf reasoning is this.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677819 << vodka also offers chance for self improvement if personal tolerance for "rock bottom" tops out higher than grave
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 20:00 asciilifeform: shinohai: consider vodka -- is better habit than reddit
mircea_popescu: portugal has a large redditard population and nothing else. they need weed for crowd control like the us needs prozac.
mircea_popescu: economy usually hides behind "arbitrary"
sina: sir where I live the sun is rising and where you live it may be falling
sina: but I will read the pimp article nonetheless
mircea_popescu: have you SEEN the unemployment rates in portugal ? esp among "college graduates" ? and have you seen what redditardation are portuguese unis ?
sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677355 << no contention on this POV, will go in increments towards adulthood, learning along the way
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:48 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677070 << and that's when you realize that the ~adult~ gossipd is a 150x moar complicated item.
sina: mircea_popescu: I can't speak specifically of Portugal redditardation, only use in attempt of "try and argue it re drugs for instance.
mircea_popescu: ~the entire raison d'etre of portugal altogether is as "that place where black chicks from africa go to learn portuguese before being shipped to work in brazil brothels."
sina: really? I would've imagined the flow to go opposite direction
sina: I mean, from brazil to portugal
sina: GDP/capita in brazil is half of portugal? more money for the same skin
BingoBoingo: No money in portugal, because no people left who don't suck
mircea_popescu: except brazil has more industrial base than ~all of europe, and that "per capita" is bullshit as half the country lives on a dollar a day.
mircea_popescu: which leaves you with a bankrupt 5mn strong portugal and 25mn brazillians with 1mn to blow on black hookers.
sina: I guess there is no available "GDP/people who can afford brothel visits" metric
mircea_popescu: gdp is ~meaningless. it is entirely government window dressing in socialist countries, and entirely "wealth divided to random number" in sane countries. the two are distinguished by "inequality index".
BingoBoingo: GDP biases towards cows and printing presses
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 16:09 asciilifeform: now : certain processes that divide into arbitraily many - and, importantly, ~arbitrarily fungible~ slices -- are good fits for chumpnet
mircea_popescu: gdp/capita i mean
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 16:13 mircea_popescu: this is how conversations go -- if you're talking to alf, he's gonna mention it himself ; if talking to anyone else, you hit them over the head with it.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 16:48 asciilifeform: speaking of which, i've been wanting to discuss 'simplest cpu' for a while.
sina: when mircea_popescu asks if you want to live long, or live well: https://archive.fo/9Mpdv
mircea_popescu: they misspelled hepatitis
mircea_popescu: it'd quite incredible hjow much of the us is an oral culture by now. hepacitis my unicode.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 99% oralculture by nao. ~all of the civilization-like appearance of the language gained by webster's standardization of orthography -- lost
mircea_popescu: if spell checkers go on strike for a week that's it for "English"
asciilifeform: it'll look like 1700s eng
mircea_popescu: forsooth, it wail.
asciilifeform: passe mye the divers condymenttese forthythe
Framedragger: if this means english were to regain cases, i'm all up for it
asciilifeform: Framedragger: doubt it
mircea_popescu: not without gladiators lol
asciilifeform: i think the saxons misplaced those.
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform's pet is learning ru and having much phun with cases , incidentally)
mircea_popescu: as a woman ?
sina: today is tax day in AU
asciilifeform: ( and, for n00bs, in ru, like in jp, verbs are sexed . so whatever you do While Female (tm)(r) is labeled !111 )
mod6: Ladies and Gentlemen of the Most Serene Republic, The Bitcoin Foundation Presents: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-July/000268.html
asciilifeform: neato mod6 !
mod6 waves
shinohai: ty mod6
mod6: you're welcome!
sina: tax lodged, off to get some dumplings and help a friend move stuff
sina: have a good day/evening tmsr
asciilifeform: in other lulz, here's a message to the fine folx throwing 'php 0days' by the bucket at phuctor : snoar
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AA47C094752F2F3F452921B9348A20B582CD5EC81B237FB5929CD947B981FBB9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1743...9567 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '59.18.113.26 (ssh-rsa key from 59.18.113.26 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown KR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AA47C094752F2F3F452921B9348A20B582CD5EC81B237FB5929CD947B981FBB9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1668...2737 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '59.18.113.26 (ssh-rsa key from 59.18.113.26 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown KR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6E4C26FC75C28240D34DBDB579FE9286E55CABF379E848725A31FF989FEA3224 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1739...7303 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.158.154.90 (ssh-rsa key from 212.158.154.90 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.mx-net.cz. CZ MO 801)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6E4C26FC75C28240D34DBDB579FE9286E55CABF379E848725A31FF989FEA3224 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1715...4253 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.158.154.90 (ssh-rsa key from 212.158.154.90 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.mx-net.cz. CZ MO 801)
asciilifeform: 0 php in'ere. promise.
asciilifeform: i have the barf scrolling on dedicated panel 24/7 and when some is 'new' it catches the eye.
mircea_popescu: i dont think those folks read anything online. including their own barf. since 2004 or so
deedbot: accepted: 1
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/07/qntra-s-qntr-june-2017-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) June 2017 Report
shinohai: jeez I was lacking in lulzworthy submissions this month BingoBoingo
shinohai must be losing edge
BingoBoingo: Perhaps month was boring on news front? QNtra is not in fake news business
mircea_popescu: summer eh.
BingoBoingo: And forking isn't such news anymore
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, girlz got a gym membership ; and since it was included they set up nutritionist meeting. why the hell not, right ?
mircea_popescu: "yes it was today but we didn't go" "well we went, but it was like in and out" "yeah"
mircea_popescu: "what happened ?"
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