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awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Found a couple of new online "republics." Have joined. Very interesting.
billymg[asciilifeform]: awt: any of them use pgp? or all 'signal' and the like?
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Nah all out in the open - discord, twitter, various saas webshits.
asciilifeform: awt_akris: canhaz links ? ( to the 'republics' etc )
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: most content is behind a paywall. But here's a sort of "link bot" for one of them: https://bowtiedisland.com/about/. The other is completely paywalled, but run by a guy called Meta_Trav (some may recall ParabolicTrav) on x. inb4 "smells like xyz scam." Well aware of all the "make money while u sleep" "l
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: earn game" shit.
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: In any case, both are hierarchically structured.
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Substitutes for mp's "saloon"
asciilifeform: 'The Master Strategy: Get career on Wall Street M&A, Technology or Sales. Spend free time developing an online business. Buy crypto and stocks. Be set for life in ~3 years.' << lol
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: the bowtied guys don't seem to fully grok btc, fucked around (cynically, as if there were another way to do it) with nfts, etc.
asciilifeform: awt_akris: entirely possib that they understand correctly
dulapbot: (asciilifeform) 2021-11-14 asciilifeform: and given as the entire purpose of a shitcoin is to 'replay history' with perp at the center.
asciilifeform: btc per se long ago went outta the orbit where street scum can '1000% profit' by squeezing pocket change outta over9000 idjits
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: What I like about them is the acknowledgement that there's no future in a corp. job (esp. if white) and I find their attempts to find workarounds interesting.
asciilifeform: today, from their pov, it is only a destination to cash out into.
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: obvs. involves all sorts of unclean involvement with platforms.
asciilifeform: involves moar proximate insanity
dulapbot: (asciilifeform) 2023-09-25 asciilifeform: but in asciilifeform's lights, playing 'i'ma do the same thing as 100,000 other folx and i'ma be the one who makes bank Because Reasons' game is a waste of time
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: My perspective on this is that it's a war of attrition problem.
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: 100,000 other folks on average are retards, give up after x weeks, etc.
asciilifeform: historically in btc scam space it was precisely the tards who 'held bag' longest tho
asciilifeform: it's the scam operator who (sometimes) wins, rather than the most persistent chump
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: well, so there we go. the tards won the war of attrition.
asciilifeform: lol what precisely did they 'win' ?
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: if they held btc? lots
asciilifeform: afaik most folx who had pile o' coin in 2010 lost ~100%
asciilifeform: 1 way or anuther
asciilifeform: ( either by participating in 'mpexes' or cashing out for chump change )
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: but the war of attrition comment was more wrt "income stream"
asciilifeform: who & where has 'income stream', other than the folx peddling 'lemme teach you how to Get Rich!' materials
asciilifeform: for all that was ever said about mp, this is 1 atrocity he afaik never committed
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: charged for trilema at one time
asciilifeform: but imho importantly did not include promises re 'i'ma teach you to Income Stream' etc
asciilifeform: this kinda thing has been a glue trap for desperate dimwitts for centuries, long pre-dates btc
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Let's imagine there actually are wealthy folks out there willing to share some info - maybe a small fee is a good filter. Who wants to deal with losers who can't aford 15 bux a month, for example?
asciilifeform: the 'record of success' -- other than for the perps -- is null set
asciilifeform: why would they 'willing to share' ?
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Why was mp? Idk. He had some post with almost exactly that title.
asciilifeform: mp wasn't playing 0sum games against his audience when wrote subj
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: having not read any of the work, not sure you can make that claim here.
asciilifeform: awt_akris: canhaz link to representative piece ?
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: For ex. if they said put 2 mn in treasuries at 5% if you meet x y z conditions, where's the 0 sum in that?
asciilifeform: awt_akris: they may also include 'look 2 ways before crossing streets'. usually these have a mix of 'financial advice' pablum cribbed from open sources and whatever 'magick'
asciilifeform: sometimes such pieces not even pushing any obv scam line, but simply brag material, a la taleb
dulapbot: (asciilifeform) 2021-06-10 asciilifeform: learn to win lottery like me!!
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: I am well aware of these tropes.
asciilifeform: i.e. author's sole intent is to peacock 'how clever' he supposedly was
asciilifeform: which category subj falls into, cannot say w/out reading specific item
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: See for ex. Andrew Tate
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's contention, however, is that these are ~the~ categories, 'altruistic fella wants to help us all get rich!' aint a category, cuz it's a logical absurdity
asciilifeform: tate good example
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Not entirely clear that there's no benefit to having a following of successful men.
asciilifeform: 'successful' folx generally not 'followers'
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: generally are!
PeterL[asciilifeform]: could be useful to have a cadre of successful friends though
asciilifeform: which e.g. mp follower today seems notably 'successful' on acct of having been subj ?
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Who knows. If smart, they wouldn't make a big deal about it.
asciilifeform: 'who knows', for probative purposes, ~= nullset
asciilifeform: ( tho entirely possible that e.g. kakobrekla (!) made bank, packed suitcase just in time )
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: I'm certain mp is responsible for at least a few bitcoin millionaires.
asciilifeform: unless asciilifeform misunderstands above, there can be at most 22 'bitcoin millionaires' neh
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: em, millionaires in usd to be clear
asciilifeform: ( and quite likely there are in fact none .. )
asciilifeform: aa well that's not much to write home about is it
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: idk it's like top 1% of wealth depending on how many millions.
asciilifeform: naturally. but the bare categorical min. aint much to be excited over
asciilifeform: for ref, avg/med house in wash. dc costs 1mil+ (for 3-4 yrs nao)
asciilifeform: these folx, many of whom have garbage bag instead of 1+ window on their car, 'millionaires' technically.
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: In any case maybe nice to have a few financially independent frens who owe you or at least respect you.
asciilifeform: noshit. but nobody's getting there by subscribing to 'get rich mag' lol
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: not getting there via a corp either
asciilifeform witnessed meatspace associates going down this toilet, repeatedly. otherwise quite intelligent folx, at that
asciilifeform: awt_akris: at least with wage work one not suffers the illusion that 'will get there'
asciilifeform: straightforward gulag
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Is why they recommand not to quit "w2" until you have 2x "w2" earnings
asciilifeform: the 'get rich manuals' thing is insiduous. folx with healthy immune system tend to not even get near subj. but desperate middle aged d00dz , on repeated exposure, 'sink in', the way cancer patients sink into voodoo, for exact same reason
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: also recommend to get "w2" in specific fields
asciilifeform: 'there must be a way' 'there must be someone who will truly teach the way' etc
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: They discuss desperate middle aged d00dz a lot
asciilifeform: awt_akris: canhaz link/paste of 'best of' $author ?
asciilifeform: e.g. tate for instance was entertaining. asciilifeform in fact enjoyed reading his peacock nonsense.
asciilifeform: ( unlike e.g. taleb, who a terminal snoar imho )
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: If I find something that fits the bill at some point I will paste. At the moment nothing comes to mind.
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: I don't know what I'd do if you asked me to do the same for mp. Most would bounce off the first paragraph of anything he wrote.
asciilifeform: dunno, asciilifeform not bounced off.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2013-11-09 asciilifeform: carried on a correspondence of sort with mp since writing a piece on his creation (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1108)
asciilifeform: generally asciilifeform 'bounces off' when sees that $material 'compresses well', i.e. is ~identical to '100,000 other', like nigerian spamola
asciilifeform: generally serious operators use 'list algo' as combinatorial bruteforce . ( to mp's credit, he did not )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-10-25 14:29:06 asciilifeform: ( see also mp's review of 'chump list' algo )
asciilifeform: PeterL: his 'max out cc' + 'pick a developing country to your liking and go' thing was tiresome imho
PeterL[asciilifeform]: awt: are these guys set on the anymous thing, or is there a chance that they would see the benefits of a gpg identity?
asciilifeform: ( incl. but not limited to the fact that himself did no such thing afaik )
asciilifeform: PeterL: it's no accident that precisely 0 of these folx use pgp, imho
PeterL[asciilifeform]: I'm not saying I followed his recipe directly, but it was useful for rethinking the way I approached a budget
asciilifeform: ( could've, since '94 ! but nope )
asciilifeform: they want persistent identity & attributable authorship like dog wants beets
PeterL[asciilifeform]: maybe they just have not seen the light yet?
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: PeterL: wouldn't be surprised if they were aware of gpg, so probably intentionally not using it for whatever reason.
asciilifeform interest in tate-style ('i got rich with bit of lottery win + selling 'how to get rich!' to desperate & gullible') 'republics' strictly of the entomological variety
asciilifeform: fwiw will note, folx who establish 2way contact with these, will be playing with active, rather than passive, adversary, receive well-crafted 'cold reading' and tailored pitches, and often enuff succumb to nonsense that they would've laffed off a decade earlier
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: if you consider me desperate and gullible, then this is one of those things. otherwise not.
asciilifeform: hence insiduous. 'info hazard'
asciilifeform: awt_akris: asciilifeform not knows whether awt_akris has compromised immune system re subj, but thought oughta describe the condition & its symptoms, may conceivably prevent some infections.
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: lol desperate and gullible it is then
asciilifeform: ( unlikely tho. the infecters have followers, incl. allegedly 'successful', slick marketing materials, and tantalizing promises. asciilifeform has nuffin but 'it's a trap, run'. not 'sexy' )
asciilifeform ftr not 'rich' at all. but otoh lost 0 coin to date to scams, which afaik few 2010s participants can truthfully claim
asciilifeform: the 'algo' , such as it is, is very simple, and not needs multi-kB article. 'if loox too good to be tru, it is', 'look for where the fuckers demands yer money', etc. i.e. what yer grandfather prolly taught you.
asciilifeform: + if sumbody purports to teach sumthing, see whether he shows any signs of having done any such thing himself
asciilifeform: ( and whether $thing was a lottery play . look for the corpses of the other 99,999 folx who tried it... )
asciilifeform: ... and finally, look for the 0sum game being played, and consider, wai would $player tell you 'good moves' ? do you see 'blackrock', 'goldman', et al posting 'financial advice' for plebes? wainot
asciilifeform: ( and when they do , because no longer fear prison -- does it turn out to be a++ advice 10+y after ? )
asciilifeform: 'free cheese is found in precisely 1 place -- mousetrap'(tm)(r)(ru)
asciilifeform: there are folx selling 'get rich'! boox, but no one afaik sells 'not go broke' boox, because a) unnecessary, erryone with '>roomtemp iq' already can write such book b) no one will buy it, 'not sexy', not promises 'change life!' and bankman lifestyle
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: I will write up an article that rebuts your firehose of straw men for $300.00.
asciilifeform not bent on somehow preventing the determined from pissing on hv fence, but could not in good conscience say nuffin either
asciilifeform: iirc e.g. mats went straight from mpex to ftx...
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: your mindset is paralyzing. akin to mp's terror of having kids.
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: make a fuckin' mistake once in a while
billymg[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030885 << politician also doesn't himself charge the front line with rifle, but doesn't mean it's a bad idea for him to recommend that those with nothing to lose and no prospects do so
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-10-11 14:53:31 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost]: ( incl. but not limited to the fact that himself did no such thing afaik )
billymg[asciilifeform]: had mp had more reach and a million derps followed through converting their $5k - $20k credit limits to 1-address btc, might've had some impact
billymg[asciilifeform]: re: "making it" -- i don't understand the endless stream of online influencers peddling whatever scheme, i tend to agree with asciilifeform's assessment. to me it seems there are already over 9000 books on the subject available on lulazon or as warez, and reading the top 5 or so ought to cover ~everything worth saying on t
billymg[asciilifeform]: beyond that any time spent looking for gurus is time not spent working towards actually figuring it out for yourself
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: ^ Aligns with Jungle messaging.
billymg[asciilifeform]: in that case good, but also seems like common sense
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Offer above stands. Will do article summarizing > 1 year of "logs" for $300.
billymg[asciilifeform]: awt: of one of these "online republics"? i'll chip in $100
billymg[asciilifeform]: honestly $300 seems like a good deal for a whole year's worth of logs summarized, anyone else chipping in?
signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030864 << with building one, but I suppose you mean working for one. even in that case, go max out comp at e.g. goog for a 5-10y if that's the goal, and you will indeed make a few mil.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-10-11 14:32:32 awt_akris[signpost]: not getting there via a corp either
signpost[asciilifeform]: I for the record have nfi what's wrong with btc. still works fine.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-10-11 14:34:30 asciilifeform[signpost|jonsykkel]: the 'get rich manuals' thing is insiduous. folx with healthy immune system tend to not even get near subj. but desperate middle aged d00dz , on repeated exposure, 'sink in', the way cancer patients sink into voodoo, for exact same reason
signpost[asciilifeform]: "get rich" isn't a fucking thing. rob someone, or build a business, tertium...
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-10-11 15:00:04 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|signpost|billymg]: interest in tate-style ('i got rich with bit of lottery win + selling 'how to get rich!' to desperate & gullible') 'republics' strictly of the entomological variety
signpost[asciilifeform] did the last startup right after the 08 splat. ended up excellent timing.
signpost[asciilifeform]: next splat is now. go build something.
signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030908 << lol, reminds me of the vid of guy sending himself through a baler
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-10-11 16:33:38 awt_akris[PeterL]: asciilifeform: I will write up an article that rebuts your firehose of straw men for $300.00.
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: Not sure where "get rich quick" is sold in anything I've mentioned.
signpost[asciilifeform]: awt_akris: dear sir, it's an invitation to loudly hit me over the head with sense if'n you have some to dispense.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-10-11 16:49:52 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|billymg]: iirc e.g. mats went straight from mpex to ftx...
signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030913 << I'm on record firmly in favor of people being willing to bet.
signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030916 << yeah, at scale this would've been a positive act of financial violence.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-10-11 16:52:46 awt_akris[PeterL]: make a fuckin' mistake once in a while
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-10-11 17:45:10 billymg: had mp had more reach and a million derps followed through converting their $5k - $20k credit limits to 1-address btc, might've had some impact
signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-10-11#1030835 << the interest on national debt is ~1T and climbing. they have no choice but to directly monetize debt going forward, which is a positive feedback loop of inflation.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-10-11 14:17:00 awt_akris[signpost]: For ex. if they said put 2 mn in treasuries at 5% if you meet x y z conditions, where's the 0 sum in that?
signpost[asciilifeform]: I would not buy a damned thing that is USD denominated.
signpost[asciilifeform]: also looks like we'll end up doing wartime BRRRRRR.
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