Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
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asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 16 nodes...
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650092
watchglass: 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.098s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650092 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650092
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.121s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650092
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650092
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.105s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650092 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.167s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650092
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.161s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650092
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.316s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=391662 (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.237s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650092
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.354s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=649809
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: whaack)
BusyBot: The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 10730.04 USD
adlai: !!wot
adlai: problem exists between server and chair.
adlai is perhaps still persona non grata, in the One Web To Trust Them All?
adlai: !!gettrust deedbot adlai
asciilifeform: hm trinque is deedbot wedged perchance ?
adlai rereads latest announcement , perhaps there was a change of policy w.r.t. in-channel services
asciilifeform: adlai: i ponied up for subscription for #a, normally deedbot worx
adlai: have ya never heard of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_effect][contrapositive to a heisenbug]?
asciilifeform: adlai: text the link, plz
asciilifeform: rly is this so hard to remember?
adlai: yes
adlai glances at barfed parse, 'good enough'
snsabot: Logged on 2020-09-26 12:48:05 adlai: have ya never heard of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_effect][contrapositive to a heisenbug]?
asciilifeform: adlai do you have a car ? do you also find hard to recall which side of road it goes on..?
asciilifeform: ( serious q. asciilifeform met 100% functional, even technical, folx who could not reliably recall which direction key turns in a lock used erryday, & similar )
adlai: markdown does [text](link), TMSR-under-MP did [link][text], I have no problem switching henceforth to [text][link] for castle stanislav.
asciilifeform: adlai: mp also used [text][link]. or how do you think old logs render in my viewer?
snsabot: (trilema) 2019-02-05 mircea_popescu: hey phf ben_vulpes and, i guess Framedragger : can i prevail upon you to have (just one) logotron recognize [url][anchor] syntax and render it as <a href=url>anchor</a> instead of the literal ?
asciilifeform: hm am i reading backwards or wat
adlai: old deedbot dust doesn't cover any further argument on this topic, so for all I care, use curly braces and angle brackets.
asciilifeform: am reading backwards. it's [link][text] errywhere, and in muscle memory
asciilifeform: will have to see wai adlai's pauli link dun render
adlai: nested
adlai did not answer a precise backtrace, just, the trivial badness that was in mind during boojugenesis.
asciilifeform: hm let's try this..
asciilifeform: yeah it's the _ .
asciilifeform: will fix in next rev. of logotron.
asciilifeform: ty adlai .
adlai: thank ~you~, for being deedbot's only remaining patron during these dark ages.
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-09-26#1022303 <<< Poor adlai. I did finally get around to rating you a few months back, you grew on me after a while.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-09-26 12:42:56 adlai: is perhaps still persona non grata, in the One Web To Trust Them All?
asciilifeform: shinohai: pretty sure it's simply wedged atm
adlai: !q seen-anywhere phf
snsabot: phf last seen in #asciilifeform on 2019-09-19 08:18:38: asciilifeform: yeah, some task i left running resulted in a heap exhaustion
adlai: !q seen-anywhere mike_c
snsabot: mike_c last seen in #ossasepia on 2020-03-25 13:34:39: In any case, I put a shutdown notice up and will close it in a few months.
asciilifeform: adlai: phf incidentally is alive, occasionally updates the vtree www. but we haven't spoken since the quoted line.
adlai actually reached for btcalpha, before starting to kicking the deedbot !
adlai wonders when [and whether?] mike_c will answer d_c's q, seeing as quite a bit of the old infrastructure rose and fell at his whim and expense.
snsabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-25 diana_coman: mike_c out of curiosity if you don't mind me asking - why now rather than at ~any other point in those many past years? since you say you never really had interest in it, it was just that you helped get it stood up at some point and nothing more.
adlai stares at "#ossasepia: Cannot join channel (+i) - you must be invited" ; recalls "CAUTION: THIS SIGN HAS SHARP EDGES" lolgif ; and wanders off.
asciilifeform: adlai: it's outta biz, in case you missed
snsabot: (ossasepia) 2020-09-22 diana_coman: with this, the moving on is finally done for #ossasepia too: I devoiced everyone and removed all flags from all bots, feel free to take them offline as there isn't going to be any use for them in here.
asciilifeform: adlai: why, what didja lose there ?
adlai: lose? not much, although I am slightly puzzled that these abdicating lords choose to lock, sack, and torch their own castles, rather than merely retiring to some shangry-la.
asciilifeform: adlai: folx who mothball their fleanode chans normally lock'em, so not fills w/ liquishit. this is unremarkable.
adlai: e.g., d_c's dismissal of me was quite far from mp's designation of me as public enemy number karpeles, although the two castles seem to have reached similar states, from my perspective.
snsabot: (ossasepia) 2019-12-28 diana_coman: adlai: unsolicited advice is for writing on your own blog, not in here; do write in here when you have some unsolicited but useful work you want to showcase.
asciilifeform: adlai: i dun recall why mp threw you. iirc for being a bore ?
adlai: arguably, lost nothing whatsoever, since the younghanded guitarist seems to politely ignore me, although 'knows where I live', if my advice, solicited or otherwise, is ever needed.
adlai: ah, so this is how you snore in Romanian!
asciilifeform: adlai: re blogs, it aint actually bad advice imho, you defo have enuff to say to keep a www reasonably filled
snsabot: (trilema) 2017-01-26 mircea_popescu: To be clear re ^ : dude's been trying to attack the republic for over a year by now through the remarkably idiotic procedure of speaking as if he has some weight. Because who knows, maybe we're all dumb dumb and this contextual approach actually works, we'll end up thinking he's somebody because he's been acting as if he were for so long, everyone forgot he isn't.
adlai: indeed; and m_p's imperative, from years earlier, is still somewhere in the queue.
snsabot: (trilema) 2016-04-10 mircea_popescu: anyway, so i suppose in the "blogs that must be", we have "adlai - views from inside the insane asylum" and "phf - they have philosophy in russia even!"
adlai: it'll take a while, of course, although mircea doesn't exactly seem to be refreshing my blog every minute, waiting for "One Jew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" or whatever I'll call it
asciilifeform: adlai: didja ever consider taking asciilifeform's advice from that thrd ?
snsabot: (trilema) 2017-01-26 asciilifeform: adlai: also consider taking up useful work.
adlai: yes. they're not hiring!
asciilifeform: fughet 'they'
asciilifeform: didntcha have a buncha commonlisp experiment ?
asciilifeform: where did all of it go ?
asciilifeform: adlai: i can't speak for other folx, but if asciilifeform at any pt thought 'why write, no one will read' would never have written anyffin.
adlai: most sits in my hd; most of that, reflected by shithub; and some of that, also reflected by a handful of other silver-lined clouds.
adlai: I avoid writing more code primarily due to the horrible mess that I produced so far.
asciilifeform: adlai: there are many unsolveds that involve ~cutting~ rather than writing. wainot e.g. take gcc & strip the cruft. so many useful undone things that folx could do..
adlai spends 90% of the time that is arguably loggable as "trading", not writing code, nor reading the existing code, but meditating on how to avoid building multics when redesigning scalpl, which is queued for sometime in the next two years.
asciilifeform: adlai: or , if feeling mathematical, help find mistakes in ffa, for instance.
adlai: regrettably, my interest in mathematics has almost monotonically decreased since my peak days as 'mathlete' in high school.
adlai: FFA seems, from slightly more than arms' length away, to be an exercise in Ada, not mathematics; although, I may be quite mistaken!
asciilifeform: adlai: or, if still like 'trading' ? find a way to phase-locked-loop against the 'btc-usd fire extinguisher' cycle, get filthy rich..
asciilifeform: adlai: primary in mathematics. the ada is incidental.
asciilifeform: adlai: if fortran had clean array slice assignments, would've been in fortran.
adlai: there is an old joke, that asciilifeform may have actually never seen before, about how you can predict what a trader's college degree was, based on the kind of metaphor he uses to describe his 'signals'
asciilifeform: haven't heard, if you can believe
adlai: like all old jokes, has ~infinite verses, one per field of college degree.
asciilifeform 0 contact w/ traders etc. in civilian life
asciilifeform: adlai: ftr btw the only mathematics used in ffa is of the kind taught in grade school.
adlai: e.g., "phase locked loop" -> EE, "uncertainty reduction" -> physicist, "buy rumor, sell news" -> communist^H^Hcations,
adlai: oddly enough, the version of this joke that I originally encountered did not include anything about augury, astrology, etc; apparently it is embarassing to admit that there is value in uncorrelated randomness!
adlai: (a fact known to anyone who has studied programmatic trading seriously, whether in academia or at personal expense)
asciilifeform: adlai: notion 'market is random!!' is chumpfodder. particularly in re btc/heathen exch.
adlai: that is not what I wrote.
asciilifeform: see also thread .
snsabot: Logged on 2020-05-05 19:54:51 asciilifeform: thimbronion: are you familiar with the 'paper gold' racket ? worx well enuff to keep 'price of gold' in check for ~century nao.
adlai: randomness, of the unwhitened, uncorrelated, uncorrelatable kind, is valuable when timing the spontaneous execution of a deterministic strategy.
asciilifeform: adlai: that yes
adlai: it eventually gets 'whitened out', or whatever colorless grue/bleen metaphor awakens your attention, by a sufficiently attentive observer; although it is indispensible in the short term.
asciilifeform: possibly i dunget it ? what can 'sufficiently attentive observer' do against a trng ?
adlai: meanwhile, my primary problem with 'useful work' is the same aversion Naggum described in paragraphs 1, 2, and 5
asciilifeform: adlai: i.e. erry problem you pick up, seems immediately a snore to you ?
adlai: you dunget the answer to an overly general problem, that neither of us stated; specifically, in the context of timing market orders, a TRNG does not increase profit; it reduces expected expense, by increasing overhead for someone counter-trading your specific strategy.
asciilifeform: adlai: right, i get this part - same reason mirv warheads have onboard trng..
adlai: in this context, 'sufficiently attentive counter-trader' can pretty much observe, eventually, that there is a certain strategy being executed with randomness added to reduce determinism; then, sigh, and search for other signals in the noise, while hoping that they have not increased gain past sane levels.
asciilifeform: fair'nuff
adlai: in the specific - and almost entirely orthogonal - context of the advertised purpose for which S.NSA sold FG units - "not much" !
asciilifeform: though to me still seems like an elementary failure in the original intent (i.e. nonrandom strategy but ideally indistinguishable from trng to folx w/out the key)
adlai: although, the two "not much"s are quite different flavors of epsilon.
adlai: perhaps mathematically equivalent to a grad student, although that is their problem, not mine.
adlai: not quite; the hypothetical nonrandom strategy is not supposed to be indistinguishable from trng, since it is only profitable due to the quirks of its non-randomness; the indistinguishability is within specific timeframes, smaller than the resolution at which the profit is expected.
asciilifeform: adlai: can you think of a reason why it'd have to necessarily be distinguishable to outsiders at any scale ?
adlai: at the very minimum, your strategy is revealed to the centralized exchange; alternatively, to the cartel of locals who collude to compare notes about when you bought and sold how much, and in exchange for what.
adlai did not write precisely
adlai: they do not learn your strategy, they learn its results.
asciilifeform: adlai: if there's a single, readily-identifiable 'you' at the exchange -- then surely.
adlai: without any randomness whatsoever, these become identical; with trng, they become maximally different.
asciilifeform: but this aint how serious biz worx. a $bil 'you' can 'be' 9000 distinct (to outsiders) shills.
adlai: yes; I am describing the strawman of maximal opposition.
adlai: this strawman might be irrelevant for an MP, although it is much more relevant for, e.g., a single MPEx customer, or a Burt Wagner (fellow who supposedly did all his trading with locals, for cash, and eventually got 'stung')
adlai: (stung = not theft of funds; theft of liberty, by the angry sovereign)
adlai is surprised at how the axiom of "exchange countertrades individual customers" is considered tinfoil-hat-level-crazyness by suit-wearing traders.
adlai: at least, by the ones that I've encountered.
adlai tries to avoid suits, both of the business and law variety!
asciilifeform: adlai: apropos -- the inescapable scammer at any exchange, is the exchange . it has irresistible incentive to frontrun (i.e. show you numbers from the recent past, while for own use -- knows, of course, current ones ) and there is in fact no way to prove that it aint happening
adlai: 'prove' is, afaic, a dirty word.
adlai: you can convince yourself, beyond a reasonable doubt, that this does [or does not, accordingly,] happen, for specific counterparties.
asciilifeform: in fiatolaverse where erryone is expected to eat 6 promises before breakfast erry morning -- of course 'dirty word'
adlai: I mean "dirty word" in the sense that this conversation included FFA, just a few screenfulls ago, so 'prove' means much more than just "screenshot of my account; screenshot of friend's account; look, exchange is scammer!"
adlai has looooong checklist of "things a centralized exchange should do, for me to consider being publicly associated with it as an employee, or worse, board member", and they are ~all laughable when compared with current 'industry' best practices.
adlai: and all ~irrelevant, since the market is saturated, and nobody is exactly flooding me with offers to oversaturate it!
adlai off to make pianoforte noise, while still legal to do so.
asciilifeform: adlai: enjoy
shinohai: $blocks btc
BusyBot: Blocks: 650110
verisimilitude: Give me an update on that CL, adlai.
adlai: fwiw, d_c appears at least one quantum of awareness more intelligent than m_p : her use of the possessive "TMSR's" could've made more than just eyes roll in #t
adlai: unsigned, from the hip: one bitcent per file, for patches adding toplevel comments that explain the effects of each configurable parameter, and 'magic number', in the form immediately following that toplevel comment; for lack of a more magical man-month, this offer -- exclusive to verisimilitude -- is valid until greenwich noon, on november eighth .
adlai wonders whether the recontextualization cortex is overly sharpened ?
adlai: as for "what files, you have published no source!": since verisimilitude expressed an intent to publish the patches over gopher, I should probably publish the files in the same protocol, and this will take time; probably less than "until november eighth", much less.
adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-09-26#1022337 << thank you; I must confess that the chaff of in-band rating updates actually never exceeded my "threshhold of pain", even when it constituted an entire screenfull of mircea's unpersonations
snsabot: Logged on 2020-09-26 13:01:40 shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-09-26#1022303 <<< Poor adlai. I did finally get around to rating you a few months back, you grew on me after a while.
verisimilitude: When I wrote of Gopher, adlai, I meant I was going to describe this job, after completion, with an article, which I'd publish over HTTP and Gopher.
verisimilitude: So, that's distinct from giving the finished work over either protocol.
adlai: if you are impatient, you can compute direct links to the mirrored copy of each file, starting from https://github.com/adlai/scalpl/raw/master/scalpl.asd
adlai recommends patience; you may find that you have less work that way, and not in the "oh, he'll just delete files" sense of 'work'
adlai: verisimilitude: if you want links with reasonably deterministic content, use https://raw.githubusercontent.com/adlai/scalpl/b913a8f048b5cd5386aead2c54339f210b45abf5/scalpl.asd as your starting point
adlai: yes, it depends on a spitoonfull of quicklisp ; no, you should not need to drink this in order to understand the code that I have written, and note that I am not requiring anyone else to make changes to the code itself.
verisimilitude: If I should wait to get all the code at once, I'll just wait.
verisimilitude: So, I'll only be adding comments, and making no other changes, I take it.
adlai: once upon a time, one could even convince github to `tar cf ...` an entire repo, within the first line of an https request. who knows what's possible today.
adlai: you should both work one file at a time, and wait until I tell you whence to obtain kelvin-versioned copies.
adlai: e.g., apparently the freshest shit on the hub is actually under 310b539 , rather than b913a8f , although you can't quite smell the difference.
adlai has no idea what the cambrian handful of randos who have clicked "Fork", and the innumerate legions who `git clone ...` on a ~weekly basis, have published ; nobody ever actually made an adlai-visible update.
verisimilitude: Alright; I'll unravel some of this and start tomorrow or so.
adlai realizes that there is much 'dead code', even entire files of this ; consider them the equivalent of the SAT's "200 points for signing your name"
snsabot: (trilema) 2014-10-19 mats_cd03: writing a trading bot is easily top five most trite and boring
adlai: mats: you have right of first refusal, if verisimilitude barfs!
verisimilitude: Define ``barf'' here.
adlai: BARF ... verb, intransitive : to become so ill, typically as a direct result of food poisoning, that the subject is unable to continue performing useful work, and possibly even has to flush a toilet, exceed expected daily caloric intake, brush teeth, and get some fresh air; e.g., "verisimilitude: adlai: I read your code, and now I have a detached retina; keep your 0.12 BTC, you lazy dog, there is not
adlai: enough coin in the chain for me to read one more toplevel form."
adlai: barf rhymes with the transitive verb 'snarf', that typically means 'read much faster than you should'. caveat snarfor.
verisimilitude: Oh, I shouldn't've any issue with that, although my patience for poor Lisp is low, my tolerance is high.
verisimilitude: Getting paid for it will help, unlike when I mock SBCL's macroexpansions.
adlai: as for comments to your articles: do you want complaints about omission of grammatical particles?
verisimilitude: I prefer praise, but accept anything.
adlai: aha
verisimilitude: I focus on a style of writing correct English, although it may not be idiomatic. Reading my articles over Gopher makes a certain constraint I write with, due to boredom, apparenty.
verisimilitude: So, do tell, adlai.
adlai: in "Disillusionment with History", you omit the particle 'that' a few times; the omissions that I've encountered so far do not result in ambiguous sentences, so I'll only explicitly designate the first of these:
adlai: your first paragraph ends, "Given what I know about history in this, I've no doubt whatsoever [that] the general world history is completely unreliable, resembling it.", where the bracketed word is the one that I consider omitted.
verisimilitude: I believe what I wrote is correct English, although I'll always change my writing if I realize it's not.
adlai: you should find your own voice, though; "correct English" is about as standardized as LISP 3.0
verisimilitude: So few are concerned with it, it's still reasonably unique.
verisimilitude: My ``voice'' is in my brevity, the constraints, common word choices I enjoy, etc.
adlai: this article does read much more similarly to a transcription of an extemporaneous speech, than the ones I'd read when making that comment, and you should consider this praise !
snsabot: Logged on 2020-09-12 11:50:00 adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-09-03#1021003 << dunno what sort of 'decision' you expect! you seem qualified enough, as far as writing legible english prose goes; although I must remark, your phrasing sometimes makes me wonder whether you ever ~speak~ the damn thing, in addition to only reading and writing.
verisimilitude: How nice. Also know, adlai, I perform writing with wildly different purposes, which reads wildly differently. I'm fond of alliteration, antanaclasis, it will be noticed I always treat contractions as their expansions, amongst other ways my writing differs from that of others.
verisimilitude: I spent much more time on my most recent article, because it was my one hundredth.
adlai recommends that verisimilitude avoid reading scalpl on an empty stomach; barfing is much less painful when you hock out chaff along with the 'gift'.
verisimilitude: Also, what's the line column maximum I should use, adlai; I prefer one hundred.
adlai: that may be reasonable for printed text, although in the specific case of the task in question, please avoid writing a comment wider than the form introduced.
adlai finds that wot.deedbot.org is still live, although this is probably orthogonal, if not downright skew, to !!wot
adlai: in other noose, I wonder what's a safe distance to flee, from a neighborhood where someone shouting "help", loudly enough for me to hear from several dozen meters of mean STP nitrogen away, elicits no response, other than her echoing herself; and the answer should probably be measured in passports, not km.
adlai: what's even a reasonable band for response, since she seems undisputed queen of the airwaves... spam radio? catapulted notes? facebook?
adlai files somewhere between 'SEP field' and 'nothing is in my backyard, for I use the metric system'
trinque: adlai: wtf do you mean "still"?
trinque: I don't fade out. when I shut something down, it'll be obvious.
trinque: !!key trinque
trinque: hmmmm
trinque: oh, it was kicked from #ossasepia?
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 2 connections.
trinque: sorry about that, unclogged.
adlai: thank you, trinque ; as you probably figured out, "still" was due to uncertainty wrt how much of deedbot was wedged.
trinque: that's what I get for not backreading first. I apologize.
trinque: I'd fix the bug involved, but it appears it's currently irrelevant, lol
adlai: deedbot does not answer in PM?
trinque: asciilifeform: I will add a week's worth of deedbot for the inconvenience
trinque: adlai: does for me. what are you trying to do?
adlai tried !!wot in PM, although this is the kind of command that could plausibly be included only in subscribed channels
adlai: trinque: "!!wot // Returns a pasted s-expression of the complete WoT database."
trinque: I'll look. it's possible I considered that one too girthy at some point and removed
adlai: right now, tbh, it is much less relevant, and I am mostly just checking this out of inertia from seeing it fail earlier; the existence of wot.deedbot.org was more than enough to answer my ephemeral curiosity earlier.
trinque: cool, afaik wot.deedbot.org is still updating regularly
trinque: lemme see what the cron interval is
trinque: daily midnight UTC
trinque: at any rate, I'll happily fix anything wrong with deedbot. atm I'm wrapping my gourd around luby and raptor coding, would like to end up with an item that fires udp or raw IP packets of either directly to friendly peers, in place of IRC.
trinque: I wonder if asciilifeform has any experiments on his desk of same?
adlai: glad to see that someone is studying 'useful work' !
trinque: I'm curious what happens if the commons exists inside crypto, rather than wherever "here" is, is all.
trinque: the whole world seems to have hit pause, so there's plenty of time to think.
adlai: old conversation of tangential relevance, for anyone catching up half a decade after the fact; distinct from, although not unrelated to, the dust-band radio
snsabot: (trilema) 2014-10-19 undata: asciilifeform: interesting chat concept on the front page of that site; is it yours?
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: given your previous comments about randomness and whitening, am I right in guessing that you consider [this article][http://www.2uo.de/myths-about-urandom/] to be dishonest propaganda?
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