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gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-12#1018832 << interested in hearing your theory for why this happened.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-12 16:01:23 asciilifeform: there is a large, brick (quite rarity in usa) house near where asciilifeform lives. owner -- died, no immediate heirs, somehow ended up in bureaucratic limbo, uninhabited, decaying lawn machinery, etc. for many yrs, i assumed it had belonged to a successful businessman, or high official. then found out from elderly townsfolks -- a schoolteacher had lived there.
gregorynyssa: I mean, why buying power has plummeted, and working hours have not decreased.
gregorynyssa: Mill once noted that labor-saving devices never end up saving labor.
gregorynyssa: do you think the 1971 cancellation of the gold standard played a role?
gregorynyssa: https://imgur.com/a/4EXyVC1 << this is from Truth Is a Lonely Warrior (2013)
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-15 03:04:56 gregorynyssa: Mill once noted that labor-saving devices never end up saving labor.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-15#1019331 << elite successfully defused the slave uprisings of late 19th - early 20th c. with well-equipped toolbox containing e.g. controlled faux-'left' 'movements', inflationism, debtism, burning off excess resources w/ world wars, zombification via 'journalism'.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-15 03:04:22 gregorynyssa: I mean, why buying power has plummeted, and working hours have not decreased.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-15 03:05:51 gregorynyssa: do you think the 1971 cancellation of the gold standard played a role?
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-12 13:20:27 asciilifeform: seems like each particular crackpot who wakes up to civilizational decline fixates on 2-3 favourite boojums and impossible to persuade otherwise, or that anyffin else matters
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I am more and more persuaded that inflation was inevitable due to societal decline, rather than a specific decision to go off the gold standard - along the lines of mp's "inflation happens to places that aren't cool", or however he said it.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: inflation has two ends -- the shortages end , and the uncontrolled-printolade-emission end, which i suspect is the 1 yer thinking of;
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-13 20:46:21 asciilifeform: shinohai: inflations work 2 ways -- one of'em is the reason wai in prison cell pnoje costs 1k $
asciilifeform: thimbronion: and is simply 1 method for elite to requisition goods & labour from the plebes. in ancient times -- or 20th c orc world -- can do same thing w/out manipulating currency, simply by conscripting people directly. but 'civilized world' thrives on the kind of fraud where you 'keep up appearances of free commerce' while in fact operating a command economy.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-12 16:10:56 asciilifeform: ... and so that the 'killed forest' of crapola he shits out, can be used to justify printing $trillions, so that coupla fuckwads can buy yachts. ( could ask, why not simply conscript the chair warmer to build yacht directly... )
asciilifeform: thimbronion: it in fact 'happens from societal decline' , in the sense that elite resorts to it when unable to satisfy its appetites via the normal taxations / rents / crown privileges, and starts 'burning furniture'
asciilifeform: schematic thought process of nomenklatura parasite, 'so what if i drove u.s. steel industry into the ground. just cuz my employees lost shirts, doesn't mean i should lose yachts. i'ma ask my chums at fed to print $trillion and give to me. and will throw a few pennies to the starving peasants, while at it, wouldn't want'em to organize and pull a 1917 on me..'
asciilifeform: the reason why inflation is observable in 'cartoon colours' in sad orcistans, e.g. argentina, is that in such shitholes, the elite's ~only asset is the printing press. crowned muppet ~will~ try to keep palace and private jet etc, even if has to pay for it 100% by printing peso.
asciilifeform: whereas in shitholes that retained 'ancient egyptian' algo of formally conscripted corvee labor -- e.g. north kr -- ~0 substantial inflation, the printolade aint needed
asciilifeform: folx simply find themselves assigned to palace-building detail.
asciilifeform: 'paper slavery' is, in light of past 300y of experimentation, substantially moar effective than the direct kind. folx building palaces at gunpoint tend to 'slow strike', drink, attempt to run away. whereas typical 'civilized world' sucker will willingly break his back for '401k' and 'stock options' and various other 'jam tomorrows'.
asciilifeform: ... gulag, for instance, was heavily -ev. ~briefly~ seemed otherwise, in early '30s while 'easy mode' surface deposits of au not yet exhausted. but in the end closed down simply because ran at loss.
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 12 nodes...
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643870
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.075s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643870 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643745
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
watchglass: 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.085s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.145s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.293s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.278s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.588s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643869
watchglass: 188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.970s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643870
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.) (Operator: jurov)
kiwi_58: hey , thanks for offering the option to join without restrictions...
shinohai: Hi kiwi_58 who might you be?
kiwi_58: can i just ask those who might have interest or info what they might think about the usdt situation ? i dont trust the nyag because of the way she looks . but does anyone have any thoughts on the entire "run to 20k fueled by tether" hypothesis ? and what happens if nyag takes substantial action ? does btc crash ? do the other shitbux clones support
kiwi_58: a crash ? just looking for thoughts here ...
kiwi_58: hi shinohai . i'm just a random dude looking for insight on this issue...
shinohai: I suppose by usdt = Tethercoin of some sort?
kiwi_58: yep
kiwi_58: specifically tether since thats who the nyag is looking at supposedly
shinohai: I have no idea tbh. Never really used or studided tether and "stable" coins.
shinohai: $ticker btc usd
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in USD: $11845.7
kiwi_58: cool
shinohai: kiwi_58: Have a link to an article about this nyag situation?
kiwi_58: i can find one gimme a sec
kiwi_58: number of older articles here : https://medium.com/@bitfinexed
kiwi_58: and...
shinohai: ty, will read
kiwi_58: great... would love to hear any thoughts...
shinohai: Hang about here for a bit, I'm sure some will eventually chime in as they read logs
kiwi_58: sure... thanks
trinque: kiwi_58: how would a collapse of bitfinex be different from the collapse of various other exchanges preceding?
trinque: also these articles are from two years ago.
kiwi_58: trinque: not sure about first question... when gox collapsed that apparently had an effect... i understand now there are 50 or whatever so probably not the same effect... but if tether was even able to be shut down that might send its value to 0 and depending on all the shit i dont understand and am her to perhaps gain insight on , maybe it would
kiwi_58: affect something value-wise , depending on the books and how much tether is on each book ? and yeah two years is what the legal back and forth has taken between tether/bitfinex pawyers and nyag... hang on i will find the recent court development .
trinque: I fail to see why some ag accidentally doing us a favor and shitcanning scammers would be a bad thing.
trinque: gox came and went, bitcoin stands.
trinque: this gox can go die as well.
trinque: if you're exposed to bitcoin with money you need next year, you're doing it wrong.
kiwi_58: im not and that isnt what i asked
trinque: sure, I'm questioning you upstream of "what do we think about USDT"
trinque: I'd rather give you thinking than soundbites, ya know?
trinque: if USDT matters, it'd be worthwhile to define why, before forming opinions about some news event involving it
kiwi_58: ok , my question is really about whether anyone has an opinion on if a potential crackdown on this tether "situation" would have an impact on the price of btc... i.e. sending it back to some level nearer the $700 that btc was when the whole insane flight to 20k took place...
trinque: my pointing you at the history of gox was the best answer anyone will have.
kiwi_58: say I had $10k to invest ... muh personal interest has to do with the idea that i could buy 1 now , but maybe more if this situation unfolds negatively for the space and sends btc dropping...
trinque: I'll say, your habit of ignoring responses doesn't do much for me.
kiwi_58: i didnt ignore anything man
kiwi_58: maybe i am misunderstanding... what did i ignore ?
kiwi_58: pretend im a fucking idiot... seems like it might be easy for you
trinque: your question as posed wants someone "wiser" as you define it to "tell you what the news means to you"
trinque: I pointed you at a subject you can research to extract yourself from the simple mindset that formed the question.
trinque: anyone who gives you an investment strategy in a few sentences is throwing you to the wolves.
trinque: and you'd deserve it.
kiwi_58: ok thanks
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-15 15:31:16 kiwi_58: hey , thanks for offering the option to join without restrictions...
kiwi_58: btw for anyone else who cares to respond , i am not looking for an investment strategy for crying out loud... just thoughts on the situation...
kiwi_58: asciilifeform: been keeping my stupid eyes on this scene for a number of years
asciilifeform: kiwi_58: afaik the only regular here who might know something about the specific $shitcoin yer into, is shinohai. and even that's even odds
asciilifeform: ( iirc he works w/ shitcoinists occasionally, to fix their clients etc )
trinque: retreat when someone asks *why* you ask is a horrible habit.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-08-15#1019414 << trinque has it. kiwi_58 where do you normally tune in ? i'ma guess it's some snakepit where yesterday's penny-stock scammers --> today's shitcoinists -- tell you 'what is hot' , isnnit.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-15 16:35:40 trinque: anyone who gives you an investment strategy in a few sentences is throwing you to the wolves.
asciilifeform: if so, kiwi_58 , you've come to the wrong door, we don't have these here
kiwi_58: hmmm... let's see here . is the "why" trinque is referring to having to do with this : I fail to see why some ag accidentally doing us a favor and shitcanning scammers would be a bad thing." ?
trinque: yep, I was taking the other side of the discourse, as is polite in some circles.
asciilifeform: kiwi_58: why not start from beginning. tell in brief what is 'usdt' and why you suppose it is interesting ?
kiwi_58: if so , my answer is that i do not think the ag shutting down tether would be a bad thing .
kiwi_58: as that wasnt my question
kiwi_58: which i already indicated
trinque: sweetheart, just do as the man says.
asciilifeform: kiwi_58: you have 10m, starting now.
kiwi_58: haha ! 10 minutes for what ?
kiwi_58: you guys are too smart
kiwi_58: if you dont want to answer or think im a scumbag for asking thats fine
mats: try #bitcoin-pricetalk
trinque: it's a curious thing how much emotional self-evaluation comes into it.
asciilifeform: wainot at least try to answer the q? you read the chan subjline. and presumably a page or 2 of log. did it look like this is ~the~ chan for oddball altcoins ?
kiwi_58: was just looking for some insight from some good minds... really didnt mean to wrong way
kiwi_58: rub you
kiwi_58: anyhoo
kiwi_58: thanks r time
kiwi_58: shit
kiwi_58: thanks for your time
kiwi_58: acsiilifeform: i really am happy to answer any question i can grasp the nature of... my original questions were : does anyone have any thoughts on the entire "run to 20k fueled by tether" hypothesis ? and what happens if nyag takes substantial action ? does btc crash ? do the other shitbux clones support a crash ?
asciilifeform: kiwi_58: i for one never iirc heard of 'tether' nor supposed 'crackdowns' on it nor why it'd matter at all in my lightcone.
asciilifeform: it's exactly as 'interesting' as what the penny stock of the day in taiwan is.
kiwi_58: the last portion meaning might the other "pegged" coins stave off a crash... i didnt word that well...
asciilifeform: some scammer promising 'i will give x usd for y paper shitcoin certificates' aint a 'peg' in any meaningful sense.
kiwi_58: i agree
asciilifeform: as for effects of this and similar idiocies on btc exch rate -- imho the sooner paper-btc dies in a fire, the better.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-05-05 19:44:52 asciilifeform: thimbronion: is a thing, but observe that 'paper bitcoin' also a thing. and accts for some unknown % of the exch value.
asciilifeform: the correct amount of it to exist is zero.
asciilifeform: time's up, btw.
asciilifeform: hm trinque does deedbot choke on these ?
asciilifeform: * asciilifeform has kicked kiwi_58 from #asciilifeform (kiwi_58)
asciilifeform: * deedbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
asciilifeform: maybe coincidence
asciilifeform marvels at the sheer depth of the wtf. that conv was almost like trip backwards in time to 2013 #ba or worse
trinque: shouldn't, but I'll check logs in a bit and see.
trinque to trim some tethers back from his garage's roof, bbl
asciilifeform also bbl
whaack: !!v CAA4C7B4AC1602CDDAE66E12985930ED82E7C6D151E22CA3E1EEA7532AA38743
deedbot: whaack paid asciilifeform invoice 1
whaack: about 1 month in my block count is at 425,550 after running bitcoind with -connect=205.134.172.27. i'm not sure if i'm stuck on this specific block or not
mats: maybe you need more peers
snsabot: (trilema) 2019-07-16 mod6: Then it should tunnel you through that remote host to connect to the bitcoin network and get blocks. Keep in mind that the example above is just that, and it also uses -connect, which is intended for connecting to a single node. You'll want to use -addnode for when connecting to more than one, and standard operation
snsabot: Logged on 2020-08-15 19:34:20 deedbot: whaack paid asciilifeform invoice 1
asciilifeform: whaack: re your node -- look in your debug.log -- how many blox / day does it usually eat ?
asciilifeform considering publishing his kludge, where a proggy milks 1 noad and force-feed another. cuz loox like may be a while before anyone bakes a 100% reliable sync in trb.
asciilifeform: btw it is possible to give multiple noads in -connect ...
asciilifeform: -connect a.b.c.d -connect e.f.g.h etc
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 12 nodes...
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.023s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.091s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
watchglass: 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.146s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.146s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.216s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643784
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.218s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.391s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.642s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
watchglass: 188.121.168.69:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.055s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=643925
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.) (Operator: jurov)
feedbot: http://mvdstandard.net/2020/08/san-jose-anti-drug-brigade-chief-and-three-members-of-force-arrested-for-drug-trafficking/ << The Montevideo Standard -- San Jose: Anti Drug Brigade Chief And Three Members Of Force Arrested For Drug Trafficking
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