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(ossasepia) diana_coman: there, precisely :)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: because code is not exactly having much to say about needs of its own; but to the extent that you mean "what is still needed for this to be useful", sure.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the potentially iffy part is at "what the code itself needs"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: there's no interdiction on thinking about code, quite on the contrary, the writing of spec is after all a form of "thinking about code" too
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sure, that's fine and just like with any other piece of writing: at times you need to do more thinking before being able to write
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: do you mean the coding tasks?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ahaha, that monitor & ups will be coming forever "tomorrow" ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh; not bad to know it though; for starters it will surely take me longer because of poking-it-everywhere and anyway, it's your one hour after the few years on it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that would be great.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I certainly want to get to give it a try but it might be a while until I dig up some proper chunk of time for it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: fwiw I enjoyed reading the gales files; esp after a CS dig, it makes for a refreshing crisp & don't-mess-my-shit read.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: why not just sign the archive anyway?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: myeah, I noticed there are now quite a few of the old images that got messed up by the switch to the mp-wp theme, ugh; it's somewhere down at the bottom of the list but thanks anyway.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: "a bit" there might be the understatement of the day; but if that was indeed apres apres-ski, I'm rather positively impressed with the result anyway.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: eh, whaack, being beaten *by someone who knows what they are doing*; otherwise it's just broken bones, not growth, lolz.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: myeah, did sound like a pebble really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: so then what changed and moreover did it actually do what was expected that crontab-test run or didn't you check the result or what happened there?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: anyway, fix it, obviously.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: you know, you should always run the crontab manually too as a basic test before letting it be; pfft.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: that could have waited for evening/tomorrow morning since the priority of the day is to get all that work done; anyways, it is what it is now.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: sounds like a lot to still do today then.
(trilema) diana_coman will think of this V-shape some more.
(trilema) diana_coman: come to think of it, it makes perhaps more sense to note that the 30 minutes worth of changes should in fact be correctly expressed as at least an hour worth of write-up; basically I had too little write-up to justify a vpatch!
(trilema) diana_coman can't quite believe that.
(trilema) diana_coman: uhm, so possibly it's just that I'm the weird one around here for which the tech part takes longer than the writing, ha!
(asciilifeform) diana_coman: sure, mechanically the actual press takes max 1 min.
(asciilifeform) diana_coman: asciilifeform: your testpress might differ from my testpress; but you know, since it was mp&me, it would perhaps help to highlight people.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: as it happens, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: yes; the easiest and least helpful thing ever; see also the mandatory reading re feedback in general because it's the same thing really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sure, it could have sucked even more, absolutely.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: I was expecting some help which yes, had to be criticism; and no, it was simply not possible that it was "good" like that, there is no such thing in the given circumstances.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: you know, the first time I ever wrote an academic article to actually publish, I did as best I knew how and then sent it - as one is supposed to - to my supervisor for a revision; he came back with "it's very good"; I was too stunned to swear on the spot (hence, I still got to finish my PhD degree in the end I suppose but still).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: other than that sure, the *best* that can happen is you find out *how* and *where* you were being dumb.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ie you seem to latch there on to a false shade of sorts or dunno
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: well, even before that really; once you publish it, it's public; what difference does it make how many you specifically broadcast to?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ie yes, it might get broadcasted to all those that follow the blog you reference but...why is that adding pressure?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: why pressure though?
(trilema) diana_coman: and more to the point: trackbacks *are* conversation namely via articles so I'd rather see also trackbacks to other blogs that I follow, hm.
(trilema) diana_coman: at moderation time only?
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-01#1949228 - since this came up in #o recently - I can see the point of taking trackbacks out of the comments rss too but at the same time I *want* to know of new trackbacks to my blog - how would that happen exactly?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: hm, might as well clarify this, why not; let's see.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: yes, I think he means both (ie he thinks trackbacks should not be in the comments rss feed either).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: ahaha; you know, his deeds record doesn't sound all that helpful but feel free to... invite? lolz
(ossasepia) diana_coman: possibly raleigh might help :P
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: heh, it takes some time to adjust, yes.
(trilema) diana_coman: because they are sufferable only in small doses really and even then I'm not sure it's not just ..for contrast.
(trilema) diana_coman: maybe it's just that I remembered why I had taken a break from computers, can be.
(trilema) diana_coman: lolz, I did not mention it referred to my answer to your question aka http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-30#1953930
(trilema) diana_coman: this sort of shit is what I spent those 10 minutes on.
(trilema) diana_coman: what can I tell you.
(trilema) diana_coman: so that's on mpwp not on me
(trilema) diana_coman: respectively "comment" or "pings"
(trilema) diana_coman: no "pings" for instance; but that wp_list_comments method has specific parameters at least according to docs
(trilema) diana_coman: it's mpwp that does same thing in two different ways; all I do is to conform to its different ways; and no; in db the comment_type is (as I checked) with 3 distinct values: empty string, "trackback" or "pingback"
(trilema) diana_coman: and yes, it annoyed me.
(trilema) diana_coman: in one place it does a direct select in db ; in the other it uses its own function and that has its own parameters
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: that's in mpwp, what can I do if it does same thing in 2 different ways?
(trilema) diana_coman: well, the way this goes then is simply this - I should have passed the vpatch making on to a more junior person then; because ok, familiarity -> figure the shit out but the fixed cost of vpatch packaging is what it is
(trilema) diana_coman: no, it's not about the loc and I specifically did not mention loc.
(trilema) diana_coman: code changes that took 30 minutes, lol; not sure how can one define it more precisely in the general like that, it depends on a lot of things after all.
(trilema) diana_coman: ugh, 30 minutes not 30 hours.
(trilema) diana_coman: hence the "will have to wait until they accumulate"
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: no, it's neither about the write up (after all, I did it *because* I considered it needed) nor about the 20 minutes on it; it's about the fact that a vpatch containing ~30 hours worth of changes would have taken ~similar in writeup and the rest.
(trilema) diana_coman: the grating thing being also that the only alternative I see would be "drop it in the logs/blog" as a clue/how-to and then keep searching for it or something.
(trilema) diana_coman: at any rate, the hour was spent: ~10 minutes figuring out the change and making it directly on my blog so that the results were clear; ~30 minutes for full vpatch process: retrieve+press current v-tree to head; make code + manifest file changes; test press of result & check + final sign; ~20 minutes for write-up + upload + overall final check.
(trilema) diana_coman: not to mention that I specifically packed more than just the initial change that you were pushing, precisely because of this issue - the overhead on a vpatch means that small but useful changes will have to wait to accumulate.
(trilema) diana_coman: maybe that is true though I think it shouldn't be.
(trilema) diana_coman: because a vpatch comes with such a large overhead
(trilema) diana_coman: it can be said also that "well, 2 lines of change taking 10 minutes to do should NOT HAVE BEEN a vpatch"
(trilema) diana_coman: sure, you can say "you're an idiot, set out your workbench better"; maybe it is that; I think there's more to it though but probably I'll have to find some time to scope it and write it down.
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: mno, it's not just a matter of "tools were not set out properly"; tools were set out and there was no time lost gathering them or whatever; yes, there is some inevitable delay when using key, for obv reason but by now that part is as streamlined as it can currently be.
(trilema) diana_coman: and then ofc something stares me in the face but I can't yet even fully scope it, gah.
(trilema) diana_coman: should add that I think the problem is relatively superficial ie one of tools as they currently stand, not one of principles.
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: trouble is that it's *not* development that is painful-er, not at all; it's...publishing that is painfuller and I doubt that has any merits.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: there is very little one can be totally sure to rely on; but the contrast does raise some questions.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: got that & I'll look at it later today.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: all right.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: maybe meditate on that some more and filter out the answer in essay/article form at some point; meanwhile it's the question to ask whenever drawn towards "shut down, mind".
(ossasepia) diana_coman: what does it tell you so terrible that you'd rather shut it down, anyway?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: well, for starters the "work in the evening"; for the other, the mind-numbing really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: note also that if you give in to old patterns, you'll just get back to them, it's how it works.
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-29#1953885 - tbh I think we do; I've been mulling this for a while ie I'm not happy with the full V setup as it is - at least as it is for me currently - but so far it never made it to the front to push for some solution.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: there's music and music really - some more helpful for thinking and some less so really but at any rate... even cooking requires thinking, lolz.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: enjoy the festivities, it's weekend anyway.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: admitting is fine but not enough; why did you let it happen and what are you going to do so it doesn't continue?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-29#1011661 - if you mean the blog's own list in there, not really; onth I personally prefer that feedbot tells me about pingbacks too so I'd filter them for blog-publishing but not entirely out of the feed as such.
(trilema) diana_coman: so in v time-costs and all that: changes took ~10 minutes including figuring out wtf to change (because I'm no expert in either mpwp or php) and then the rest up to 1 hour was making vpatch + test-press + write-up; pshaw.
(trilema) diana_coman: fine, let me pack both then.
(trilema) diana_coman: ah, could be but if I get to that, might as well fix the recent comments too or it ain't worth the gpged, lol.
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: this what?
(trilema) diana_coman: I guess so; but I meant it more as in why default in the genesised mpwp; anyways, perhaps billymg makes a patch to take those out of there and to put also trackbacks/pingbacks as last in comments (I've fixed this on my blog only a few days ago but by default they mix in comments too)
(trilema) diana_coman: yeah, that default is annoying, not sure *why* are they there by default
(ossasepia) diana_coman: such a pleasant read otherwise.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: you have a broken link/messed up tags on "previous mention of rolling back "
(trilema) diana_coman: tbh by now I really want to give a spin to jfw's gales thing too and actually see what's there.
(trilema) diana_coman: spyked: answered with one more link.
(trilema) diana_coman: hm, looking now at it, there doesn't seem to be a pingback on trinque's article from mine despite my linking it; weird.
(trilema) diana_coman: and apparently the bits and pieces known/sorted about this are not that easy to find or something, hmmm; esp the paths issue was discussed and sorted in the logs + documented at http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/14/a-working-cuntoo-install-on-amd-fx-8350-with-script/
(trilema) diana_coman: spyked: my comment is waiting your moderation.
(trilema) diana_coman will gladly read the humongous cuntoo write-up.
(trilema) diana_coman: any specific reason for that ?
(trilema) diana_coman: though it does use pop/push so yeah, more like stack.
(trilema) diana_coman: the spec doesn't say more than "queue" there.
(trilema) diana_coman: spyked: ah, so you mean that the trouble is just that the message queue is lifo instead of fifo really?
(trilema) diana_coman goes to re-read spec.
(trilema) diana_coman: spyked: comments are numbered, yes; and ah, I hadn't noticed it was down.
(trilema) diana_coman: spyked: doesn't feedbot report comments in order? it just reported in pm 3 comments on an article in reverse order (and a couple of hours late by the looks of it)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: looks good; is the fundamental approach in that thread clear now?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so then, let it be as it is and otherwise monitor it and see, that's how things are figured out anyway.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: re size, the less crowded stuff is, the more space for air to move about so yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: also, if you have in there 8 running fans, it might end up rather noisy, so maybe not ideal if it can be helped.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: it looks like the 2 included should be enough for as long as you keep it in a sensible place really; at any rate, you can monitor the temp and figure out later if you really need to add fans, it depends in the end on your environment too.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: depending on OS and all that, there can be all sorts of drivers-induced nightmares but otherwise and in principle myeah.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: np; and sounds sensible, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: if later you figure out you want X or Y graphics card for good reason, you can just change it (if it works with the rest of configuration), what; not a big issue.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: basically if you don't know for sure what and why you need X or Y or Z graphics card, you'll likely find totally fine any decent option even if older or something.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but anyway, I expect even with your first option of graphics card there that you can still do decent graphics/animations really
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and/or build another machine specifically for that if you really get that interested in graphics.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: if it's "some day", leave it for then, it's not like you can't change a graphics card either
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: I mean mainly if you need/want/are interested in latest graphics for something other than eulora
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: but overall it's really more about how much you care about the graphics card otherwise really
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sure, it will always look better, shinier etc on latest & greatest (+ the fitting drivers because those make the difference even more than card per se).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: iirc someone even managed to run the client on a virtual machine (though that was extreme & slow ofc) so it will run pretty much on ~anything
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: not really, eulora is very undemanding re graphics + for hacking you'd anyway focus on non-graphics really
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lolz, we shall see.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: perhaps meanwhile they found out that the UK is on the other side of the ocean or something.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: BingoBoingo_: in fedex-lolz, their tracking page now says it's in the US and "no scheduled delivery date available at this time".
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ok; for btc though I do hope you are otherwise planning to look & find also some people other-than-surf-pal-who-moves-to-nicaragua or wherever, right?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: trinque: any chance you answer jfw's question ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: it seems it's probably best to ask any questions re wallet/transactions/trb in #t really; though atm the chances of getting a lot of help there aren't all that clear.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: sounds good; looking forward to that article then.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, now datanoc.com is in the logs for poor connection, lolz.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: and btw, how's it going? it's been quite a while.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: huh, that's a weird connection at colo then; what colo is that?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thimbronion: mind setting a znc somewhere? it's getting rather annoying.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: myeah, I rather wish esthlos made it back.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that's the trouble there; when I get a break I'll set up again the redirect for dianacoman.com > ossasepia.com too but atm it's not done.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: mind running a replace of dianacoman.com with ossasepia.com?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: done.
(trilema) diana_coman: !!up dorion_road
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: works, yes.
(trilema) diana_coman: jfw: ave1 has GNAT running on musl, no need for the frozen Adacore version really.
(trilema) diana_coman: !!up dorion_road
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: nice to see your action in #t but mind actually updating me on your obviously-but-rather-left-unspecified new plans for the week as well?
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: fwiw that panamaservers thing failed my very initial filtering hence I didn't even bother jfw or dorion_road about it and the thing with customer service and support doesn't sound that great to me either.
(trilema) diana_coman: !!up dorion_road
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ah, well, it's a generic mouse, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but it's die Maus, isn't it?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: eh, that's because she's no lady, just a madchen
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: heh, so you need... more pressure? :D
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: done.
(trilema) diana_coman: !!up dorion_road
(trilema) diana_coman: well, on the bright side, there's nothing better than "forbidden!!!" to make it interesting to youth.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (I don't really keep drafts so yeah, I wouldn't notice that case)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ah, so it's set fine when you publish it, then?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: gotta love the 3 flags for same thing approach, myeah.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so yeah, can probably leave it at whatever non-breaking thing for now if it's not obvious, but should find a less time-consuming place for your blog indeed, by the looks of it
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the trouble with unexpected resets and "updates" is that they might have fucked whatever versions of anything and therefore who knows how long it takes to track this down
(ossasepia) diana_coman: hence my q yesterday and hint to go and look at the insert because it's not as much that it should allow bogus dates but rather WHY does it try to enter bogus dates to start with?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the default values are 000 but I don't think it's meant to insert without setting it
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: uhm, dunno if intended; afaik in my db the dates are properly set really, for both post_date and post_date_gmt
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: do the dates end up now invalid in db though?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sounds like a plan.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: eurgh; such "service".
(trilema) diana_coman adds to the list for later today.
(trilema) diana_coman: ah, it's comment_author for trackback, makes sense.
(trilema) diana_coman: mircea_popescu: do you know where in db are trackback's contents ? I replaced dianacoman.com in posts and in comments, apparently not in trackbacks, hm.
(trilema) diana_coman: heh, got back to that due to a need to change direction .
(trilema) diana_coman: heh, what are comments if not articles-to-be, really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: atm whaack doesn't really have the luxury of figuring out how to build an UPS from scratch too, on top of everything else; yes, a working APC UPS is not ideal nor best nor anything else; it still is a working UPS.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the btc-buy/sell locally will be useful anyway.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: mpwp has 0000 set as default for dates indeed; does the insert rely on default values though? it sounds rather surprising because you'd end up with those 0000 everywhere then, hm; what happened to the "sql process" that it had to be revived anyway?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: even eyes don't scale
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: uhm, he even acknowledged, no/
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: do note that he is building his *first* computere there
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I still have APCs, too.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: you certainly DO want to be able to find battery replacements, yes; (though it should be quite a few years until you need to replace the battery).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the likelihood being ofc that once that's done there will be yet another pile of tech pushed happily on but anyways.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: since the tech work got pushed full speed in front, it makes sense to get it all published and be done with that part iirc there's more still waiting, isn't there?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: makes sense.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ftr you should normally look in more detail beyond the total wattage but anyway, both of those PSUs are quite all right from what I se.e
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: should be all right ; is that same shop you buy the rest of components?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: what does it mean "look fine" ? are they the same /how different from the one you were looking at, previously?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: eg I looked and they have same characteristics but it's only brand different or that has more power but the other one has ...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: not necessarily article but say directly what the issue is that you can't decide yourself
(ossasepia) diana_coman: can't even open that page on this machine really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: so compare them and figure it out
(trilema) diana_coman: !!v 74578400326E684289FB746F45D5709218ADB733D509CA2E115FD2E5953392C2
(trilema) diana_coman: !!up dorion_road
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so use a logs window if you are otherwise likely to miss stuff.
(trilema) diana_coman: jfw: yes, it's ok.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ahaha dorion_road ; fine, let him off the hook there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: you are up, lol
(trilema) diana_coman: jfw: after the work on the wallet though, no/
(trilema) diana_coman: !!up dorion_road
(trilema) diana_coman: jfw should publish all that Gales work and docs too, for sure.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh, BingoBoingo was faster.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it will go to modqueue so have a bit of patience until I get to publish it, that's all.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: yes
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I keep my promises.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: sounds ok.
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: oh hey, how did the conference call go then?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: hm, haven't seen that wp error before but look at the part doing the insert and figure out why it ends up pushing 0000 ; is there some conversion to gmt that fails or what?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: oh, so you'll be able to get them from cr after all? not ba
(trilema) diana_coman: in wp/mpwp solved wtfs: those weirdly ordered comments of mine turned out to be the artefact of importing previously deeper-nested comments, sigh.
(trilema) diana_coman: ie this sort of "split" happens every generation
(trilema) diana_coman: to me it sounds more like the usual "the current cool" vs "parents' ideas"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sounds ok re usual basic characteristics but monitors are a matter of personal preference & use really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: at least so far it seems it might work for the best, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that surfpal of yours is expert at wasting your time really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: yes, you should publish that Gales & docs too (I heard you have very good docs, yay!).
(trilema) diana_coman: hm, mircea_popescu is there any Eulora coppers merchant left?
(trilema) diana_coman: there is that too, indeed.
(trilema) diana_coman: where the server costs 0.001 btc and the shipping is 0.0629 btc for the lolz.
(trilema) diana_coman: !!v D5FE66B7E444170287B3991EBCD2CB4C9295A0992DC0F6C017692FDEBC139B9D
(trilema) diana_coman: !!v 105ADF0B171AF3C5EB2A6BAA25F5310B05A5BFE35E79438965CFB2A5591AA050
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: got that, thanks.
(ossasepia) diana_coman now looks wtf is wrong with that old comment that is out of place in there.
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