mp_en_viaje was going to propose http://trilema.com/2015/the-four-points-of-this-morning-in-color-any-questions/ to the younghands summarization project ; then went over and checked what exactly the pinging article was doing, decided.... best not to.
mp_en_viaje would like to take the time to point this out re ye olde discussion of "is something to learn / is nothing to learn", coming up oft re gosspid but generally always there. "to learn" is insanely vague an operator. just because you don't learn anything useful [about programming] while doing, say, python, it still dun mean you don't learn anything useful about your girflriend, or the tcp infrastructure, or router hardware, or the difference be
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-19 14:04:28 asciilifeform: diana_alt: i have plan to move the box to traditional apache, but yet not figured out how to do so w/out unacceptably long disruption of service .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-19 13:50:01 asciilifeform: diana_alt: fwiw i was not, to date, able to rule out mp's 'overworked pipe' hypothesis .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-19 14:20:04 diana_alt: spyked: I don't recall and can't see at http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/081-feedbot-manual.html - is feedbot for L1 only or does it work for anyone with positive ratings or regardless of rating or what?
asciilifeform: ^ dulap incidentally performs considerably better , unsurprisingly, than the pseudo-sadmachine, in re actual page generation on local end.
asciilifeform: i.e. takes ~0.068s to travel the 50km or so to asciilifeform's chair from said pseudobox.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-19 16:38:17 asciilifeform: other folx welcome to try. e.g. the 'heavy page' : curl http://54.209.217.34/log/trilema/2018-04-18#1802801 > /dev/null
asciilifeform: btw for thread-completeness, heavy page loaded locally on the shitbox consumes avg. of 0.2s.
asciilifeform: rly what we oughta have is 7+ ~active~ bots/logotrons on 7 continents, then no one will have to grumble 'wai slow'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: from this pt i'ma follow the prescription mp gave during last 'wai slow' thrd -- leave it alone, there aint much to be done re to speed it up ( as imho conclusively showed that the pipe is to blame ). will move on to other matters ( import of historic logs ; fix of reported catastrophic bugs, incl. the resync of numeration mp asked for ; and then to get back to ffa ! )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-19 13:52:44 asciilifeform: diana_alt: however, if accessed from localhost on ~public port~ (80) then yes same delay
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: this remains a mystery. i gotta wonder if there's something peculiar re our routing, which gives this effect.
asciilifeform: the 'db snapshot' link nao worx. this box will do duty as an (unauthoritative!) 'fast' mirror of db snapshot also, until someone comes up with better.
asciilifeform: ftr gets ~80kB/s avg. from dulap, there.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, lobbes , et al : i'ma leave the rubbish box to run until further notice, and give it cron job that eats db from dulap erry day .
asciilifeform: ty for the timings lobbes . seems to match up with asciilifeform's and BingoBoingo's pictures
lobbes: trinque: ^ I may have been too quick on the draw when deedbot came back online. plox to lemme know if I should re-issue the above !!v
lobbes: Numbers for the 'heavy log' as follows: NC chair 0m1.055s ; Euro VPS 0m0.971s ; Piz Rkchp 0m1.435s
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/08/200-us-ceos-sign-pantsuit-pledge-declaring-primacy-of-social-and-political-goals-after-other-us-ceo-confirms-usg-malice-pursuing-said-goals/ << Qntra -- 200 US CEOs Sign Pantsuit Pledge Declaring Primacy Of Social And Political Goals After Other US CEO Confirms USG Malice Pursuing Said Goals
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-19 16:13:02 BingoBoingo: I remember a thread from last year where trinque saw long pings doing something at the same time MP was enjoying incredibly fast ping to Eulora server
asciilifeform: ( the rest -- largely, hand-copying configs )
asciilifeform: other folx btw are encouraged to perform similar experiment ; whole thing took me approx 35min of meat time, from revving up heathen pseudo-box to posting link here.
asciilifeform: ( in the mirror example, we get it in the reverse direction, but seems to be that same ~0.5s ! )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hard to say for fact, but seems to add up to a picture where's there's a ~0.5s bottleneck b/w south amer. and errywhere else.
BingoBoingo: From the rack gives 0m0.561s
asciilifeform: i'ma switch this thing off in coupla days, once errybody's taken the offered measurement and is satisfied ( i dun want a 'fossilized' logger sitting for idiots to find and think 'they're dead' )
asciilifeform: all knobs aside from 'download snapshot' work, so feel free to e.g. walk the 'random' pages etc.
asciilifeform: i suppose for completeness will mention an alt-hypothesis -- somehow nic on dulap is culprit.
asciilifeform: errybody's welcome to play with the mirror ( it's a '1st month -- phreeee!' pseudo-machine , i'ma leave it up for a spell, tho it will , obv., grow no new log lines )
asciilifeform: deliberately this setup uses nginx and same (as far as could replicate on the heathen box) stack of proggies as the orig.
asciilifeform: other folx welcome to try. e.g. the 'heavy page' : curl http://54.209.217.34/log/trilema/2018-04-18#1802801 > /dev/null
asciilifeform: oook here's an experiment : asciilifeform set up a mirror of the logotron on a cheap heathen host. ( one of the most rubbish hosters known, lulazon's . hence cannot in fact stand up copy of bot there, fleanode bans conns from it unless sslized. but the db is current. )
BingoBoingo: I remember a thread from last year where trinque saw long pings doing something at the same time MP was enjoying incredibly fast ping to Eulora server
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( and imho further suggests that pipe is culprit ) << My desk offers "0m0.073s" suggesting geography may be at play
asciilifeform: ^ the log bot itself, for instance, thus far has only reconnected when asciilifeform manually cycled it, to update to new ver (last such time, to put phf's uniturd pill in production)
asciilifeform: ... and typically they die on acct of connectivity pause on asciilifeform's end, rather than piz
asciilifeform: ( and imho further suggests that pipe is culprit )
BingoBoingo: From other machine time goes up a smidge: "real 0m0.035s"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the 33 logger is off atm
asciilifeform: the logger does not depend on dnsism to work ( can set the domain in /etc/hosts like e.g. mp does )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: naked ip also worx (lemme know if you want the 2nd logger on 33 switched on , to try moar )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: meanwhile trying on other machine seems solved for the right reason "rl: (6) Could not resolve host: logs.nosuchlabs.com"
asciilifeform: diana_alt's, on other hand, is very similar to mine, i.e. no substantial diff b/w main and 'naked'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo's output is pretty interesting -- how is it that he gets >2x the wait from ~local~ machine than diana_alt from europistan.
asciilifeform: ty diana_alt , BingoBoingo . (i'ma switch off the 2nd logger for nao, will run it again if anyone requests, later)
asciilifeform: in my own test, there is no substantial detectable diff
BingoBoingo: diana_alt: I never managed to deploy anything that worked as needed on nginx. I managed things that almost work on lighttpd, but it simply lacks the good stuff apache offers for blogs.
asciilifeform: diana_alt: reasons to suspect the pipe, include this: i have stood up temporarily a raw flask on port 33. try time curl "http://logs.nosuchlabs.com:33/log" > /dev/null
diana_alt: ah, nm, now I saw it in the footnote - it is L1 only
diana_alt: spyked: I don't recall and can't see at http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/081-feedbot-manual.html - is feedbot for L1 only or does it work for anyone with positive ratings or regardless of rating or what?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plz perform the simple experiment suggested by diana_alt and tell result.
asciilifeform: ( had not, prior to folx observing 'logger is slow, say wai' , taken the sweat to properly monitor where in the typical page load is time spent and on what )
asciilifeform: previously i chalked this up to 'slow pipe'. now suspect also the proxying proggy.
asciilifeform: the reason why i currently suspect nginx as the culprit, is that i observed very similar delay when loading static (e.g. FG photograph) files via same.
asciilifeform: neither phuctor nor logger is written in such a way as to force the choice of either nginx or apache as the front-side proxy, will eat either just the same. simply requires the appropriate config.
asciilifeform: diana_alt: i have plan to move the box to traditional apache, but yet not figured out how to do so w/out unacceptably long disruption of service .
asciilifeform: i get (and on rather slow machine) load time for the 'heavy' example page comparable to the time it takes for the mouse button to go up an' down.
asciilifeform: diana_alt: if you press the vtree and set up the logger on own box, where you happen to be, and import the daily db dump, can then observe the 'native' speed of the thing.
asciilifeform: delay disappears when accessed on localhost at the 'high' (nonpublic) port where the py proggy itself is answering
asciilifeform: diana_alt: however, if accessed from localhost on ~public port~ (80) then yes same delay
diana_alt: asciilifeform: hm, does it vanish if accessed from other-machine-at-pizarro too?
asciilifeform: diana_alt: fwiw i was not, to date, able to rule out mp's 'overworked pipe' hypothesis .
asciilifeform: diana_alt: there defo is. i've measured up to 0.6s (and all outside of the py proggy per se, i.e. vanishes if accessed at localhost )
diana_alt: so there's still a totally unknown but significant delay on logger, weird stuff
asciilifeform: lobbes: i'ma try your proggy tomorrow. ideally time finally came to eat all of the back-archives.
BingoBoingo: tried decrypting the wrong block
BingoBoingo: lobbes: Looks like you targeted the wrong key
lobbesbot: lobbes: The operation succeeded.
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-borderline-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Borderline. Adnotated.
asciilifeform: it was the 1 that ended up with vendetta against ben_vulpes somehow
mp_en_viaje: i thought that was the alice character
mp_en_viaje: and the other one is exactly the same situation : very good and clearly related, but not the exact item, which i am positive included the strings "you are male still" "abused your body"
mp_en_viaje: now, the item you found is quite related, conceptually, but still, discusses women's equivalent issue.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the footnote is very good, but NOT actually the item i was looking for ;/ which is, i can see it in my mind'seye, specifically a line in the lgo saying that the problem with intelligent people is that they want to put that intelligence to use. the context was something about dying in the trenches.
snsabot: Logged on 2018-01-08 12:19:52 mircea_popescu: the claim "i am female" is fraudulent ; you are male and will die male. this is something decided at birth and unalterable.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: that was in the "alice_m" thrd.
mp_en_viaje: and meanwhile progressed to also missing a line where i say "if you were born male, you're male still, irrespective of how you might've abused your body in the meanwhile".
asciilifeform: was translation iirc. where 'but anyone could parallel park using steering wheel! troo sport is to do it without wheel, said the sprezzaturist' or similar
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it was in an old trilema piece, the one about 'sprezzatura'
snsabot: Logged on 2018-05-01 03:43:31 mircea_popescu: fellow strikes me as intelligent in conversation, then i keep having somehow the exact sort of problems with him that i usually have with idiots : i have no fucking idea what's going on, and i have to twist arms to sorta find out, maybe.
mp_en_viaje: incidentally, anyone happen to recall where the fuck i put in the log a line about how the problem with intelligent people is that they don't want mere solutions, but specifically solutions that rely on that intelligence.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-18#1929551 << this i suspect is right on the money. consider the liquishit that was printed in the interwar years.
asciilifeform utterly fails to see the connection
mp_en_viaje: by all means, so what, train women to hipthrust ? the main ingredient there was the happiland social club, not the 3 liters of petrol.
asciilifeform: (granted -- the victims did 99% of the work for him, by packing into ridiculous small space and stampeding )
mp_en_viaje: this is about as idiotic as saying "mother of gengis khan killed most of europe with one good hip thrust"
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc record holder in usa to this day ( re total count ) was the 'happiland' d00d, where 80+ on 3 litres of petrol
mp_en_viaje: the "samurai cuts down 500 enemies in one sitting" story describes people who did nothing else since age 11.
asciilifeform: i was speaking of the sword-in-subway folx
mp_en_viaje: they're not good for mass kill.
mp_en_viaje: the one utility for thermodynamic weaponry is discussed in http://trilema.com/2015/a-blast-from-the-past-or-the-molotov-cocktail-guide-this-is-how-you-win/ ; they're good for disrupting positioningof enemy
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-18 09:05:23 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929434 << sword takes training to use this way, noob wrists get tired. i can't find now where i put the "two smgs, make sure you mow down everyone in your car then come out screaming and flailing armss down the tunnel with the rest of the muppets, let Inca sort you out"
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-18#1929516 << my understanding is that folx who choose swords, tend to be the ones who practiced with same
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-18 09:07:42 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929437 << this is iffy. fuel-air bombs win over nato rounds (and most all other nato ornance), which is why russia picked htem as their doctrine, because they're less-worse in the context, not because they're unisersally good.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-18#1929520 << imho the correct historical comparison would be, rather, mcarthur's 'fire jobs', rather than modern-day item made for puncturing fortifications.
mp_en_viaje: "Google engineer Neil Fraser, who works in the company's education department," with tards like that, no wonder google's not worth the lint in my pocket.
mp_en_viaje: then he uses https://neil.fraser.name/writing/patch/pattern-pp.png "patterns in pride and prejudice", because a) that ignominous dumb cunt is somehow to be referenced, in literature. AS FUCKING IF. and then, because code has the fuck anything to do with language, at all.
mp_en_viaje: it is ~ALWAYS~ harder to not do something stupid than to do it. which is why the whole discussion re povey above, too.
mp_en_viaje: i can almost hear the cageworthy old woman impelling the nonsense, too, "oh, why don't you want to do $random-stupid-shit, ~are you too scared?!?!?!?~".
mp_en_viaje: this is the fuck they do all the fuck day long, ain't it. take something that should never be done, pretend like the doing is "more complicated" than the not doing through the transparent venue of applying cuntlogic, and so act like it's somehow heroic.
mp_en_viaje: "However, the program becomes more complicated when the two copies of the base document are not identical. In these cases the patch program must do the best job it can in applying the " << motherfucker monkeys, how the fuck did this rank imbecile manage to make stupidity sound like "a challenge" ?
mp_en_viaje: heck, the 90s passed by undetected, i had nfi as late as 1999 besides a vague, unanchored and inexpressible feeling "something's wrong"
mp_en_viaje: in truth, the nonsense's way the fuck more obviously grating these days than in the 90s or 2000s.
hanbot_derpy: yeah, good for him for potentially wasting less time with the apparatus.
hanbot_derpy: howdy, ty. just wanted to say i'ma write to the povey d00d, has a sort of pre-joe stack feel...
mp_en_viaje: hey there.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 21:31:25 asciilifeform: lobbes: tangentially -- any idea why #e seems to have fallen into disuse ? since i stood up logger, saw ~0 life there
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929501 << i've been travelling so not playing ; danielpbarron left for greener pastures in the intellectual desert ; diana working more playing less these days, same for mocky i suspect ; hanbot and nicole travelling with me, it's just... large potion of the userbase simultaneously quit, from a naive pov. from the connected pov ~everyone will be back, especially as new server / client are avail.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929491 << dude, totally, john hopkins' right over there. why don't you ask the man out, buy him a steak, see ?
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929489 << nope ; on the contrary, mp instructed harem to similarily invite. time for write-in campaign!
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929441 << read about the nonsense later, for now you still risk it "snaps" into place.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 15:43:38 lobbes: asciilifeform: could you point me to some threads/reading re: this 'fuzzy-merge' concept? V is the only version-control patch system I've ever used, so I'm having trouble comparing it to the 'anti-models' (I've never used shithub, for e.g.).
mp_en_viaje: or, for that matter, the russky vytiaz
mp_en_viaje: in order to spray enough fuel to burn to death the same pile of spurious subhumanity, you'd need more than you can carry.
mp_en_viaje: something like the venerable sa 25 will empty its magazine in 5 seconds. that means 40x 9x19mm dribblets flying through the air. if you use the specialized russian rounds, can has 600m/s / 750 J exit energy, enough to defeat cheapo "bulletproof" vests.
snsabot: Logged on 2016-05-29 16:10:05 mircea_popescu: still, stuff like the raufoss mk211 is the exact pill for "oh, we're armored". orly ? well done, so the round won't blow clear through you! enjoy zirconium fire in your spleen!
mp_en_viaje: rifle is not bad for the purpose, especially if you get one with overpenetration. even pistols are ok. and if you take care of your ammo adequacy, armored police become preferred targets, let that zirconium burn their black innards.
mp_en_viaje: fi you don't have a bureaucracy, the kinetics of many-moving-hot-metal-bits still beats the thermodynamics of delta-energy.
mp_en_viaje: the contexct being "an army", aka killing ~bureaucracy~.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 15:19:57 asciilifeform: anyffin to keep the 'feel like a trader'(tm) tards from waking up to fact that pressure washer + petrol easily mows down 1000+ , while e.g. kalash into crowd, lucky if 100.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929437 << this is iffy. fuel-air bombs win over nato rounds (and most all other nato ornance), which is why russia picked htem as their doctrine, because they're less-worse in the context, not because they're unisersally good.
mp_en_viaje: something like that, though. the one missing aspect of the manalone pushback is that he universally fails to meld back into the herd.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 15:16:57 asciilifeform: for that matter, observe, some of the most picturesque 'postals' were -- with sword. (picture, katana, in crowded subway.)
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929434 << sword takes training to use this way, noob wrists get tired. i can't find now where i put the "two smgs, make sure you mow down everyone in your car then come out screaming and flailing armss down the tunnel with the rest of the muppets, let Inca sort you out"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 21:31:25 asciilifeform: lobbes: tangentially -- any idea why #e seems to have fallen into disuse ? since i stood up logger, saw ~0 life there
diana_alt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929501 - eulora's next phase awaits the new client basically; so yes, it's been quiet in game too for quite a while.
lobbes: re: upstack (to my surprise) loox like the bug on eating null payloads wasn't in my znc2tsmr code, but in fact in eat_dump.py. Barf for reference
lobbes: though I figure once mp is done traveling and diana_coman gets her young hands club running there may be more development chat in #e
lobbes: asciilifeform: has been pretty quiet as of late. not sure why tbh. danielpbarron, Birdman, et al have been quiet as well, tho, and they were frequent players
asciilifeform: do the players use in-game chat nao , or wat
asciilifeform: lobbes: tangentially -- any idea why #e seems to have fallen into disuse ? since i stood up logger, saw ~0 life there
lobbes: asciilifeform: sounds good. So far it ate 160k lines of #e archive. However, found a bug in my znc2tmsr code where if line payload was null, my thing did not output a ';' at the end
asciilifeform: lobbes: let it eat the #u archive, then run reader.py, take a look at the known barf lines from before. if it ate correctly, make again vpatch (from current leaf of tree) and i'ma sign, then eat on dulap.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hey do you think you can get the good doktor povey to come & visit ?
BingoBoingo: China needs white men for their domestic stock photo industry
BingoBoingo: Well, he didn't specify what he'd be doing over there.
asciilifeform: 'if the worst comes to the worst I can always go to China or Russia' << lol, wasn't aware these needed american profs
lobbes has been stepping through 'manually' for the most part; ran all of the lines in 'nsalog_schem.sql' one-by-one from psql commandline
trinque: two different things; he's talking about the shell tool, and you're talking about the sql command
lobbes: micro-nit, but I noticed the example syntax for creating a database in logotron README.txt is noted as 'createdb', but in most of the documentation I've checked it is 'CREATE DATABASE' (https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/sql-createdatabase.html)
asciilifeform: lobbes: over time there was series of small changes to that awk, to work around various congenital defects of gnupatch; ended up with phf et al writing entirely new replacement proggy, which is the current vdiff.
asciilifeform: lobbes: observe that the hashes you see in vpatches , in the pre-keccak (i.e. pre- disposal of gnu diff ) are not generated by gnu diff
asciilifeform: lobbes: they don't hash at all, typically
asciilifeform: lobbes: there had been ad-hoc attempts by heathens to add signatures to patches (e.g. linus's) but afaik all permitted 'fuzzy'.
asciilifeform: lobbes: in traditional heathen patching, gnupatch will attempt to shoehorn a patch into place for so long as it does not entirely conflict with the existing text
asciilifeform: lobbes: observe that vpatches carry hashes, and demand that the output of prev. patch , going back to genesis, has to specific value. i.e. prohibit 'fuzzy'
lobbes: or rather, that string does not ring bells
lobbes: asciilifeform: could you point me to some threads/reading re: this 'fuzzy-merge' concept? V is the only version-control patch system I've ever used, so I'm having trouble comparing it to the 'anti-models' (I've never used shithub, for e.g.).
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 14:51:34 asciilifeform: diana_alt: fella seems to have profound talent for reading text w/out ~actually~ reading. (for instance, escaped noticing that primary diff. b/w a vpatch and a heathen patch, isn't that it is pgp signed (heathens had pgp-signed patches 20y ago) but that it doesn't fuzzy-merge.
asciilifeform: anyffin to keep the 'feel like a trader'(tm) tards from waking up to fact that pressure washer + petrol easily mows down 1000+ , while e.g. kalash into crowd, lucky if 100.
asciilifeform: this is why reich propaganda machine tirelessly repeats the line where 'postal, is what you do with rifle, let's fixate on rifle'
asciilifeform: for that matter, observe, some of the most picturesque 'postals' were -- with sword. (picture, katana, in crowded subway.)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hey, hammer was entirely goodenuff for the franks.
BingoBoingo: And using it like that is why the US is following Argentina to the manure pile. https://archive.is/A4VH3 Hammer works
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well why would anyone drop 20 tonnes on lone colonel jogging? Makes more sense to pick them off one by one.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: rright, with the only diff being that, of yet, there is no one to drop the earned 20 tonnes on ~their~ head
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The US colonels do that too http://qntra.net/2018/07/security-personnel-continue-leaking-location-and-activity-information-through-fitness-apps/
mp_en_viaje: only possible conclusion is "these dudes never farmed"
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They chicoms have at least one weird fighter that appears to not be clone.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the most striking aspect was just how unfamiliar with women or womanhood they found themselves. it's like an agricultural manual that omits any discussion whatsoever of soil acidity or inclination, focuses greatly on the zodiac.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 14:17:38 asciilifeform: imho this hypothesis has explanatory power, in re usg's eagerness (against protest of all of the generals!) to scrap, e.g. the famous 'warthog'
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929384 << Note that global state of the art in this area has fallen from Warthog to Super Tucano. Much as the SR-71 and concorde are gone, the Warthog has been out of print for a while. Maybe the Chicoms make a flying tank at some point, but the art has fallen from flying tank to flying toyota Hilux
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: pretty sure it was linked. and imho not entirely surprising -- these folx were still sitting in trees when europe was puzzling over jurisprudence . so naturally they will write 'buggy reimplementation of 80% of lis^H^H^H justinian et al' , just as they 'invent' caesar's cipher etc
mp_en_viaje: or w/e, if the inventor of shorthand not good enough, claudius' mother was a whore named a caneis.
mp_en_viaje: this is the female lifecycle : 1. menstruation ; 2.1. taken slave by republican | 2.2 taken slave by slave | 2.3. rots untaken. then 2.1 goes on to mother M.T. Tiro ; 2.2 goes on to mother a buncha redditards.
asciilifeform: empire of rome detectably 'wanted' to be something like today's reich, aha. didn't have the industrial process to make it stick tho.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, not really the case -- in empire, ALSO imam-distributed.
mp_en_viaje: (admittedly these considerations only interesting for me because actually got slave empire that works, otherwise it's a comparison of something with nothing)
asciilifeform: observe incidentally that germany's slaves also were 'imam-distributed' . hence my suspicion, that 'legionnaires personally take slaves' doesn't extend to when the primary weapons are industrially-crafted objects with gnarly maintenance cycles, only really extends to when gladius.
mp_en_viaje: which was kinda my point : for all the in-universe supposed glory, slave empire dun work in any practical sense.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: as far as i can tell, they ~tried~ to '51st state'. problem is that inca can't even fully digest 1 baltimore, merely 1 small (physically large, but not so habitated) town where folx willing to ~sometimes~ shoot, much less entire iraq.
mp_en_viaje: if they TRULY BELIEVE they got something, "democracy", blabla. if the pantsuit truly believe pantsuitism is +ev, then how come iraq isn't the 51st state ?
mp_en_viaje: so the q there stated extends/dovetails into ye olde "why didn't they make iraq 51st state"
mp_en_viaje: this is baked into the question, though. "why didn't THE SYSTEM allocate the pilots slaves" ? you know the isis rural tards have complicated manual about "how to slaves", mostly dealing with the recipients' own homophobia and bizarre cuntfears. but those slaves aren't personally taken in war ; they're imam-distributed.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: There doesn't seem to by anything that can stop Argentina from getting tossed on the manure pile to rot this time. They are approaching the fiat system stable state.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 13:59:08 asciilifeform: observe that even in the period that e.g. wehrmacht soldiers ~were~ coming home with slaves, luftwaffe -- nope
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929372 << one of the disadvantages of the advantage, i guess.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: as mp pointed out on numerous occasions, there is no substantive diff b/w argentina and usa, britain, etc. rest of reich.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the reason why the fiat printers can't take argentina behind the shed and shoot it, no matter how obviously necessary, is that then would have to also take selves there also and shoot
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929352 << My surprise is that they continue to rate Argentina instead of shaving off a half inch at a time.
asciilifeform: in the (per usg's Official Troof, 'bloodless') bloody coup of '93 that demolished remnant of sovok, observe -- no airplanes are known to have taken part.
asciilifeform: this reduces arguably to mp_en_viaje's old piece where 'height of the towers'. yes, tower is tall, but... yer in a tower.
asciilifeform: i see no reason to suppose that usg's 'computerized' planes behave any diff. from e.g. cisco's routers. ( and the turks appear to agree , fwiw )
asciilifeform: (i.e. fella inside ~could~ aim the cannon at the parliament and pull trigger and it ~would~ fire)
asciilifeform: imho this hypothesis has explanatory power, in re usg's eagerness (against protest of all of the generals!) to scrap, e.g. the famous 'warthog'
asciilifeform: observe, even today's debased piloting, where the man is largely in the cockpit to enter numbers into keypad -- gives , from reich's pov, too much to the man. and hence the ongoing effort to deskill even this profession, mechanize the machine 100% , remove the meat.
asciilifeform disclaims : not pilot. but arrived at this hypothesis not entirely from empty space.
asciilifeform: ( all 'magic coads' aside -- flyers depend on massive and well-oiled supply chain; picked -- and not merely by bureaucrats, but by the very modern machine's similarity to programmable comp -- for 'colouring in the lines' ; prolly suffices. )
asciilifeform: famously peron was overthrown with help of the exactly 2 little jets kurt tank was able to build in argentina. but doubt that today could happen similarly in reich, i suspect that the 'modern' machines will neither take off nor land w/out magic coad from inca satellite.
asciilifeform: in this light, the current reich's all-out investment in aviation (formerly -- of expensive-but-working, today, 'f35' style) actually makes sense.
asciilifeform: infantryman can take rifle and 'go off reservation', and, like the famous lt. onoda, grease it with fat of killed policemen for 4 decades. pilot -- not so much.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:13:51 mp_en_viaje: i am aware various sysadmin-y folks flatter themselves that "something unixlike'd have existed anyway for our terminal&cmdline needs". this is utterly false, they'd have been clucking at GUI interfaces exactly like the medical profession / barristas everywhere, and been thankful when .jar finally rolled around.
asciilifeform: and consequently that pilot (dun matter what personal courage, physical strength, etc) for so long as stays in the profession, is at the mercy of process much like what mp described re comp operators
snsabot: Logged on 2016-09-26 15:36:06 a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 00:46 asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it.
asciilifeform: and i suspect the reason is along the lines of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-09-26#1548766 .
asciilifeform: observe that even in the period that e.g. wehrmacht soldiers ~were~ coming home with slaves, luftwaffe -- nope
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929364 << rereading this classic, had grim thought : consider the q mp_en_viaje posed at the end, 'Why is it, exactly, that the pilots didn't come home with a bunch of Iraqi slaves ?' :
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 06:04:55 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929222 << i honestly thought that was the steaming turd icon.
mp_en_viaje: incidentally asciilifeform do you remember which trilema article has the herd of replicants drawing ?
asciilifeform wonders if trinque spat on the email thing and regged via e.g. 'mailinator'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-17 06:08:08 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929260 << you hafta register a new name to de-ssl or what's the idea ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 21:41:54 trinque: seriously considering opening a www channel into the bot
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929309 << this is going the oposite way of your stated principle neh ? www to implement a terminal in php via apache ? why not just use the existing terminal lol
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 21:41:32 trinque: mnah, if I'm doing anything at all with "IRC" in the mix, I'm doing as little as possible
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929307 << that's a sound principle, but in practice it comes down to what he says : when stuck interfacing, use their interfacers. same logic powers "use fs to comm to apache" as powers "use znc between your proggy and freenode" etc.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 21:23:12 BingoBoingo: Latest is that what was a disaster appears to have been normalized in argentine dialog while Fitch just downgraded then from B to CCC
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 20:58:12 trinque: if we are content with that deedbot may come back under a different name (as if freenode is the canonical repository of anything) I'll remove the SSL cruft.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929260 << you hafta register a new name to de-ssl or what's the idea ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 12:24:53 asciilifeform: ♨ << loox like 'java log' ?!! (what's it doing in unicoad? is there 'coca cola' logo also?! and if not -- wainot?? )
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929222 << i honestly thought that was the steaming turd icon.
asciilifeform: hey lobbes , why is there a MB of log for some rando heathen chan inside that genesis ??
lobbes: ^^ and with that, I will turn my attention back to testing asciilifeform's logotron for importing the uniturds
asciilifeform would much like folx to start pressing the tree , and experimenting with own hands , rather than simply bringing tips to asciilifeform to make patch
lobbes: once I genesis the 'classic' #e logotron I intend to do some testing
lobbes: asciilifeform: with phf's uniturd fix in place, would you like me to repatch the following (with updated MANIFEST.TXT): http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/znc2tmsr-vpatch/ ?
trinque: remove the .loglines { float:left; clear:left; } and add .loglines { word-wrap: break-word; }
asciilifeform invites trinque to vpatch ; the posted tree is 100% current and patchable on
trinque: can with one of the multitudinous flags
trinque: it's the phuctoring lines, standby for css hax
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 21:41:54 trinque: seriously considering opening a www channel into the bot
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-13 22:48:05 asciilifeform: another page that breaks, apparently, wrapping
asciilifeform: actually some of the old pages look not-nice, currently chasing a rendering barf where lines overflow in certain 2015-16 pages
trinque: seriously considering opening a www channel into the bot
asciilifeform: ( tho tbf iirc trinque's bot, assuming it is close to the genesis'd item, would require a little doctoring to run under znc )
trinque: mnah, if I'm doing anything at all with "IRC" in the mix, I'm doing as little as possible
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 16:30:57 asciilifeform: for instance right nao anyone leasing a box on piz, can hear the pw
trinque: yep, just freenode auth blasts a password over the wire
trinque: asciilifeform: sure, but that seam runs all the way down to "what's freenode doing in there"