asciilifeform: if you believe the heathen chart ('bitnodes'), 'falcon' mega-relay-network etc has ~same number of nodes as... their count of trb.
ben_vulpes: you may now proceed to quest 3 in the Infiltrate TMSR~ saga: write a patch demonstrating rust interop with TRB
mircea_popescu: in the sense that rather make that, best make new comp. trb-i all over again.
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers! anyone who noticed that his trb wire to dulap dropped last night -- the thing was rebooted (without my permission) ~13 hours ago.
asciilifeform: and lol , mircea_popescu's lament is ~exactly asciilifeform's ~yearly 'when i stop writing trb fixes, they stop getting written'...
Framedragger: re. per minute, i guess i should reach out to consult first eh - this was borne from a solipsistic "me as a customer" consideration: e.g. i want to test out some trb feature across multiple different instances, i need good i/o and memory; monthly costs would not be trivial (for the purpose at hand), so i wish to be charged on smaller timescales.
asciilifeform: ( before mircea_popescu balks -- 'trbi' ain't btc )
mircea_popescu: nitpick : move 2016 to 2017 on trb.org main page
pete_dushenski: https://github.com/paritytech/parity-bitcoin << new node software backed by f2pool, haobtc, and bitmain. because you're not cool if you don't have your own alt-trbf.
trinque: obviously I'll also make special cases for things like trb deeds.
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/a-brief-foray-into-the-swamp-of-trb-boost-usage << CH - A Brief Foray Into The Swamp of TRB Boost Usage
mod6: was considering something of the same. but maybe it's not nearly as hard to get trbi or whatever we have under load; just hook it up, see what happens.
mod6: was wondering what we might do about such things with Ada or trbi
mod6: I've been meaning all month to get to do some ticket reorg for trb. I'm still going to try to it this week here.
mircea_popescu: what i was looking for was, supposing the whole of trb looks like : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/YOK7i/?raw=true then something like : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/qGO07/?raw=true
mod6: It wouldn't take much more effort to add the AcceptBlock values into the trb_offline_eatblock.png if that's wanted.
mod6: if you're looking at this chart: http://www.mod6.net/eatblock-test/trb_offline_eatblock.png
asciilifeform: it resembles trb 'wires' .
trinque: but yeah, not required to have musltronic trb
lobbes: Well, I'm just trying to stand up a gentoo that'll run trb. Seems like my kernel choice may not be as important as I thought as long as gcc is musltronic?
ben_vulpes: trb builds with buildroot though, does that with which the kernel is compiled affect that pipeline?
asciilifeform: glibc is also not supported for trb.
asciilifeform: for trb, that is.
lobbes: Perhaps musl is better option? Fwiw, I posted over on gentoo forumz with my specifics, but am not versed enough to know if the suggestions they gave (e.g. using glibc) will fuck me over building trb or not: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1062324.html?sid=c3ea68da31445ec3e870e5344a443dd3
lobbes: So, I'm midway through my first gentoo adventure. Currently on the compile kernel step (genkernel), but running into funkiness with uClibc errors. My question is: if I abandon uClibc for, say, glibc, will I have issues building trb? (I remember reading in logz that trb doesn't use glibc)
asciilifeform: y'know, when trb sits like idiot and waits for bdb to disk i/o.
asciilifeform: ^ all but the last is mostly wasted on trb
mircea_popescu: which is how trb-i even became an item.
mircea_popescu: this adds ben_vulpes to the list of people who seriously considered the matter of snipping trbn into shape, came to ~same conclusion, ie that rewrite is unavoidable.
asciilifeform: today - 'trb-i', ciphers of known strength, a few others.
ben_vulpes: all sorts of interesting and amusing barf compiling trb with -std=c+=11
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, anyone besides me ever try compiling trb with -std=c++11?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what was the reasoning behind your call that replacing trb's boostisms with c++11isms was an assault on grandfathers pistols? trb mustest compile with old gcc's?
mircea_popescu: this might even fix it, but it's not certain, given the festival of adhoc magic numbers trb is also known as.
trinque: looks like trb was not pleased with python's json.dumps() taking upon itself to use scientific notation after I changed fee and deed amounts.
trinque: ^ PSA: I'm looking at some kind of trb wallet bug which is reporting suffient balance, but insufficient when trying to send a tx
mircea_popescu: well, hopefully this problem gets resolved by crap not making it into trb-i
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: When do we get G5 trb sync stats?
ben_vulpes: anyone ever see a trb/buildroot run hang at `checking for gcc float-conversion bug...` ?
shinohai: I was gonna say, all those trb artifacts were huge
shinohai: trb blocks, now individually wrapped for your convenience.
asciilifeform: i find it slightly outrageous that i have a pressed aluminum ratheadlinux from 1990s but not a pressed aluminum gcc4.9 or trb-genesis etc
mircea_popescu: merv, or generally the mongol reduction of persia from a coupla million to a coupla hundred thousand is the fundamental civilisational act. not the building of the scum, but the purging of it. much like "writing prb" is not an achievement in computer science ; but purging it into trb is.
asciilifeform: i propose a declaration of 'tx replacement is an attack against sane bitcoin and whoever does it, is the forker, and not us, who thereafter ban it in trb and subsequent proggies.'
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-04#1636874 << directly relevant. afaict, producing a transaction with trb code boils down to making a 'ctransaction' with 'vin's shaped per the constructor http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=wires_rev1#0261
pete_dushenski: http://www.gereports.com/object-sprayed-worlds-blackest-material-freaking-us/ << ok vantablack is fucking cool. makes me want to paint trb node with it. 'capable of absorbing 99.96% of ultraviolet, visible, and infrared light'
asciilifeform: let's say we find that, e.g., gcc past 3.x embeds an off-by-one-ization in memcpy() , dependant on payload, and that it is triggerable specifically in trb tx processing.
trinque: just caught, like trb, here's how it was
trinque: we discussed this for trb openbsd patches
ben_vulpes: well yes i'm familiar with how the bits are laid down, but i am less familiar with how trb handles it internally
asciilifeform: i have plenty of 'c machines' right here that cannot run trb (on account of 'too small addr space' or 'too slow clock', take your pick.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not trb's identity was being defined. the c machine's was.
asciilifeform: at any rate this is a bizarre line of thought. trb (or rather, bitcoin, the existing network) has any kind of long term future ~strictly~ if it can be entirely separated from the cpp abortion.
mircea_popescu: yes. definition of "lisp machine" ALSO IS "item which runs trb"
asciilifeform: trb (the currently existing item) could quite conceivably run on entirely different type of machine, under emulation (smbx , for instance, shipped... believe -- a c compiler, in genera. along with fortran, ada..)
mircea_popescu: c machine does have a specific meaning, and it is "item which runs trb."
asciilifeform: ( this also ignores the -- screamingly evident -- fact of trb being ~algorithmically~ defective. as explored on several occasions here. )
mircea_popescu: "c machine" defined as "item that runs trb" is thereby fixed through becoming more apparent than it previously was.
mircea_popescu: at the very least things were learned about how trb is ~supposed to~ function, and this is sufficient to qualify it.
asciilifeform: do what you will to trb, it is still written in idiot language that does not check bounds, on idiot iron that does not check bounds.
mircea_popescu: it is trying to fix the trb, which is a component of the c machine, defined as "runs trb"
mircea_popescu: in any proper statement, all the eg trb foundation's work goes towards one fold of "fixing c machine" in this sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "runs trb".
mircea_popescu: phf yeah, but still, we have some experience with the neat trb building process. it can be done.
ben_vulpes: anyways, hey asciilifeform have you ever built the trb test target?
asciilifeform: builds static trb, bootable initrd+kernel, busybox userland, ~5MB (littleendian arm) package all in all.
nacci: perhaps the republic will need to maintain its own os in which to run trb
ben_vulpes: trb just looks through the script for pubkey or pubkey hash opcodes
scriba: Logged on 2017-03-28: [23:57:45] <asciilifeform> ( possibly -- if some hero devotes several years to it, trb-style -- but even then )
asciilifeform: theoretically trb & prb permit 'tx replacement' idiocy
asciilifeform: ( possibly -- if some hero devotes several years to it, trb-style -- but even then )
phf: in fact, i static linked a copy of trb on a recent machine (5.6 say), and then moved it to a libretto (that was running 5.3 or whatever) and the binary booted and worked, but then silently failed on some system calls.
mod6: i realized when trying to diagram out, for instance, the notated split of trb.node with trb.wallet (posted in logs a little while back) that I didn't have enough paper on 8.5"x11"
mod6: trb in orbit
diana_coman: mod6, list of deps for trb from what I gathered on a fresh, minimal centos box: bc, gcc, g++, gpg, wget, perl, patch, rsync, sha512sum, unzip
a111: Logged on 2017-03-26 16:10 asciilifeform: 'Hello asciilifeform I see on coin.dance/nodes , The Real Bitcoin is listed with the 'Emergent Consensus' feature tag. Could you tell me if that's accurate - will you follow a HF to > 1MB , and could you tell me anything about how it's implemented in TRB ? Thx!'
asciilifeform: 'Hello asciilifeform I see on coin.dance/nodes , The Real Bitcoin is listed with the 'Emergent Consensus' feature tag. Could you tell me if that's accurate - will you follow a HF to > 1MB , and could you tell me anything about how it's implemented in TRB ? Thx!'
asciilifeform: the other open seekrit re classical trb : and afaik applies equally to various prbs : there is no means whereby to introduce a martian reorg consisting of >1 block, such that it will actually get processed.
asciilifeform: ( reorg in trb is also ~ruinously~ expensive )
asciilifeform: classical trb simply throws those out, as malformed rubbish in ProcessBlock()
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, mmm, on contemplation the issue might just be mp logotron reports "failed reorg" when the purporting-to-generate-reorg block failed to actually verify. old prb/trb don't.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632698 << zero instances in my trb logs to date, mp_en_viaje
asciilifeform: say, for instance, kako's 'trb is broken, won't push my p2sholade'
asciilifeform: iirc prb doesn't even maintain a socket with trb , starting with 11 or so
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, this was re the "our new v 13 nodes will not accept blocks relayed by trb"
a111: Logged on 2017-03-24 21:40 TomServo: I was just curious if anyone else saw this in there trb, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WRtLs/?raw=true
asciilifeform: also what patch set do you use, TomServo ? my trb doesn't have time stamps, for instance.
TomServo: asciilifeform: time is okay, other than trb logs being gmt system is cdt. disk okay. Yes, earliest.
TomServo: I was just curious if anyone else saw this in there trb, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WRtLs/?raw=true
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: 'Every service is in a dedicated VM container' << i'm not clear on difference between vm and vps, but i have at least one trb box on vm it seems.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 04:46 pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631221 << define 'possible'. >x connections ? doesn't crash ? because i've been running trb on vps since it came out and have no particular complaints other than semi-regular st9 errors.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 23:34 mircea_popescu: tbh i have nfi how you could run trb in a vps. i don't think it's possible, not really. would be certainly quite the medal of merit on any software that can handle such.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631221 << define 'possible'. >x connections ? doesn't crash ? because i've been running trb on vps since it came out and have no particular complaints other than semi-regular st9 errors.
mircea_popescu: tbh i have nfi how you could run trb in a vps. i don't think it's possible, not really. would be certainly quite the medal of merit on any software that can handle such.
asciilifeform: ( and you couldn't put, e.g., trb in there. )
trinque: mod6: I'm quite happy to host anything that supports trb work
mod6: <+trinque> strike that, all trb deps mod6 deeded; he is hosting the V stuff. << fwiw it's also posted to the ML which is on some other environment.
trinque: strike that, all trb deps mod6 deeded; he is hosting the V stuff.
trinque: ftr, all trb downloads come from a dedicated deeds box I've been happy to run as core infrastructure pro bono.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000033.html << arm cross-flags example (from ye olde trb)
mod6: You will find that The Bitcoin Foundation website has duly been updated as well as the TRB How-To Steps (nothing more has changed than the version number of the tarball to grab for V).
shinohai: "If you upgrade to trb, this has been fixed for ages" <<< /me wants to comment
mod6: well, yeah, i've got a new dedicated box that is trb w/wires and currently syncing from thin air.
phf: ben_vulpes: we're not actually discussing various relative merritts of various who calls, because we don't have any problem in mind. for trb clion's who-calls is above and beyond anything emacs provides, for genera's clim ~genera~ is way better at who calls, etc.
asciilifeform: bulldozer that amplifies my intelligence and makes such thing as, e.g., unravelling trb, possible, is not 'balcony tomato'.
ben_vulpes: trb is "the real bitcoin"
lulcoinz: trb specifically (I know what a btc node is)
lulcoinz: what is a trb node (sorry for my ignorance)
ben_vulpes: no but seriously, why even bother hoping? run a trb node, insulate yourself from the retardation.
ben_vulpes: WHERE ARE THE TRB TOKENS, EH?
asciilifeform: ( anyone here tried trb on bigendian ? i -- have not )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629232 << trbi, with the fixed-length-everythings, needs ~no fancy indexer at all. it's for a hypothetical sane-trb.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 00:42 mod6: So I'll be getting into the thick of that very soon. Lot to do to get trb-i going.
Framedragger: (current version records the important things including trb work, so imho it's doing fine)
Framedragger: i guess having an easy way to add new projects (or have a 'misc' parent but maybe that's too dirty) would help in that it'd be easier to record stuff, including tasks not directly tied to trb or V
mod6: So I'll be getting into the thick of that very soon. Lot to do to get trb-i going.
mod6: I do want to outline more of the trb-i work in tickets, and do some clean-up/management of existing trb tickets.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-17 07:21 davout: in other TRB news, my node is happily bitcoining, doesn't seem too bothered by working with a regular HDD, and that's without asciilifeform's cache patch
davout: in other TRB news, my node is happily bitcoining, doesn't seem too bothered by working with a regular HDD, and that's without asciilifeform's cache patch
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 16:56 mircea_popescu: but the correct trb-i might just as well end up this situation where block reward is 1mn bitcoin, and it dies within 1mn blocks. so all mining does is produce ~ a lease ~ on a chunk of bitcoin. and the value of old bitcoin is monotonically decreasing over their lifetime.
asciilifeform: davout: per current trb rules (which , see earlier, is different from prb's ! even) A gotta be spent before it can reappear.
asciilifeform: if you can re-introduce an old coinbase -- which you can , if it has been spent, per trb rules -- you (or anyone else) can afterwards reintroduce any and all tx that had that coinbase as an input
asciilifeform: trb, i will note, already will not relay any attempt to spend anything not already in a block.
asciilifeform: ^ this is a question that can be answered exactly , using a patched trb
asciilifeform: it would instead manifest as one or more chains of tx that a trb node -- a particular one, that saw the particular magic orphan -- mysteriously does not want to spend the outputs of.
asciilifeform: now for the practical consequence. what this means, as far as i can tell, is that there can exist -- may already exist -- chains of tx in trb, that cannot be walked back to a coinbase.
asciilifeform: trb as it exists , permits a new tx having same hash as old, so long as old one was spent.
asciilifeform: 50* was spent, and per trb rules, garbagecollected from the index
asciilifeform: as i understand, it will validate, in trb.
asciilifeform: sooo per my reckoning, you can have sane-trb-indexer, but now every tx gotta have a field for 'was replaced?' -- and if bit is set, indexer goes and looks at the collision table, the previous lookup now 'didn't count'
asciilifeform: also it is not clear to me that trb ever... worked, in the customary sense of the word. what, for instance, happens if you actually carry out the -- entirely legal per all known btctrons -- replacement of a ~spent~ coinbase tx ?
asciilifeform: but possibly now mircea_popescu sees what asciilifeform meant by 'trbi is much EASIER problem than working-trb'
asciilifeform: and i don't mean trb
mircea_popescu: this is at the core of the argument in favour of a trb-i implementation.
asciilifeform: this is not an original discovery, there's a magic case for it in trb
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 90% of the retardation of trb is that objects live in heap and are all part of a massive ball of yarn, linked to one another
mircea_popescu: tho trb was made to adhere pretty closely.
asciilifeform: that thing also runs various housekeeping systems, aside from trb. like a champ.
mircea_popescu: honestly, it should just be a patch. there's no serious reason to allow the usage of trb on tiny boxes
davout: du -sh ~/.trb reports 131gb
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 06:46 davout: my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD
davout: my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/14/a-quick-recipe-for-pressing-experimental-trb-trees/ << ยป Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - A quick recipe for pressing experimental TRB trees.
mircea_popescu: after all, dead & replaced trb === fork.
asciilifeform: sorta the point of trb.
asciilifeform: accepts a block that ye olde trb wouldn'tve
asciilifeform: Framedragger: at the risk of repeating old thread : there is no way to 'replace bitcoin with trbi'. it isn't a thing that can be done.
Framedragger: ..which means that the latter should be dropped eventually, i guess (but then cue my question 'why not just work on trb-i if no compatibility with heathen prb network')
Framedragger: i think it makes sense, thinking of the future, to eventually move to a model where there is no 'public trb node ip list'.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: btw regarding bitcoin, sure re. 1000 machines but if/when there's only 15 or however many trb nodes....
Framedragger: (this is just to juxtapose topics of trb and gossipd for a second and to maybe show why some folks really like the lighthouse idea) :)
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, panzers! ben_vulpes , trinque : trb node at dulap will be unavailable for next ~hour .
mod6: so either user creates ~/trb-deps and then pulls all .asc's from deedbot manually in offline mode. or makefile creates ~/trb-deps and pulls .asc files in `make ONLINE=1` mode and dumps files in there.
trinque: makefile would make the dir, maybe ~/trb-deps as default, or w/e
mod6: this would leave, for instance, a 'trb' output press directory along side of the above stated dirs. of which, all that would be contained in there is a bitcoin directory, and the underlying 'src' directory.
asciilifeform: if i had a ticket to the mythical planet where programmers aren't retarded and 'the shame of poverty' is not smelled, we would not even be having the trb conversation.
asciilifeform: trinque: don't put wire-trb on your icbm-controller box. the skull is there for a reason.
mircea_popescu: ok, so now with the built trb with ssh patch...
asciilifeform: and you aint backing up 'this box' but the trb deps. that got frozen 4evah.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: now all you gotta do is to move the subdir 'bitcoin' inside this 'trbfoo' to replace the 'bitcoin' dir in trb54
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you pasted the .gitignore from inside the resulting dir 'trbfoo' ? make sure this was so ?
asciilifeform: ./v.pl p v trbfoo asciilifeform_wires_rev1.vpatch
mircea_popescu: that build happened in ~/trb/rotor/TEST2 etc
asciilifeform: rm -rf trb54
asciilifeform: ( which iirc mircea_popescu and also hanbot successfully used to build trb )
asciilifeform: your copy of this turd (quite unnecessary in trb, in fact, but that's besides the point, we inherited it in genesis) consists of the original concatenated to itself !
mircea_popescu: File: trb54/bitcoin/.gitignore
asciilifeform: ./v.pl p v trb54 asciilifeform_wires_rev1.vpatch
asciilifeform: that's where all of the patches from which trb is made, live.
asciilifeform: see mod6's document, step '0x09) `mkdir patches` Gather trb vpatches from http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/patches in which ever manner suits you best.'
mircea_popescu: so where's the trb+wires recipe ?
asciilifeform: this presupposes that you have a trb+wires built
Framedragger: probably worth thinking about it more, it'd be quite a spiffy thing indeed... that said, i have a more general concern with time-sunk-cost-to-trb. i do wonder how realistic it is to expect a trb-i in the years to come. if it is, then working on shitty legacy trb codebase is opportunity cost par excellence :( ; but, maybe testing harness could be generic enough to be easily re-usable.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-12 01:58 ben_vulpes: anyways, having thought about "testing" trb, i am interested to hear what kinds of tests framedragger would write
ben_vulpes: can even diddle trb-observed clock to get difficulty curve to do whatever
mircea_popescu: it means you feed a trb to be tested randomly generated "txn"
ben_vulpes: if afl is not a lurking piece of garbage, plugging trb into that might yield some interesting strange.
ben_vulpes: anyways, having thought about "testing" trb, i am interested to hear what kinds of tests framedragger would write
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was attempting a nonretarded trb-fs.
mircea_popescu: anyway, proper adatron -> trb-i -> fixed 2/2 txn model.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, i have combed trb src for a cap on tx input and output maxima, and found none
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, didja ever calculate what would happen to trb (or for that matter prb) if one were to produce a colliding txid ?
asciilifeform: seems like a shit idea tho. 'oops there isn't a trb running on dulap, because ooops i broke the build'
scriba: Logged on 2017-03-11: [21:18:59] <Framedragger> :). one decent part of devops is CI, i thought. it's even mentioned as possibility for trb dev http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-15#1466922
a111: Logged on 2016-05-15 15:56 mod6: what i also want to build is a CI thingy for trb
Framedragger: :). one decent part of devops is CI, i thought. it's even mentioned as possibility for trb dev http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-15#1466922
Framedragger: maybe not applicable to trb
asciilifeform: without gutting and replacing the entire logic of trb.
asciilifeform: sooo mircea_popescu , to revisit upstack , the entire doublespendpreventer mechanism in trb relies on this nonsense , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#0855 << is where it marks spent, and http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#0847 is the doublespendtrap
asciilifeform: if trb is in a state of snake tongue, ALL of the affected tx do not belong in the index table
asciilifeform: meanwhile, opened the binder of horrors, with trb src, and found some lulz, which is actually what i sat down at the terminal to share:
asciilifeform: the other fundamental problem, and the reason why asciilifeform's interest in recycling old fs for trb is ~0, is that imho trb needs LESS dependency on open sores crud, rather than moar
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: sure, but do you expect to reach **10^24** nodes before trb-i?? (http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/fsgraph2.png)
asciilifeform: phf: you're quite right that it isn't. thing is an astonishing pile of gnarl. but all of the necessary info, is ~inside~ it, just like 'bitcoin' lives inside the rubbish of trb
mircea_popescu: and this is a very important point, and cogent throughout, including re trb-i design
a111: Logged on 2017-03-10 17:16 asciilifeform: the Right Thing would probably be to have a very simple kernel driver that takes a specially-marked disk partition and gives userland trb linear use of it, as plain array
mod6: On a brighter note, about to setup a new trb node this weekend outside of aws. So that's awesome.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-10 17:43 asciilifeform: imho the 'hard part' is not even to implement this table, it is freshman homework, but to unravel the liquishit in trb and learn where to even put the lookup/write !
a111: Logged on 2017-03-10 17:16 asciilifeform: the Right Thing would probably be to have a very simple kernel driver that takes a specially-marked disk partition and gives userland trb linear use of it, as plain array
asciilifeform: i contemplate it as more of a 'demolition charge', when trbi exists.
asciilifeform: trb will not even need to know whether it was given a real disk, or flat file.
asciilifeform: much cheaper to reindex a trb node, what, 1 night, than for enemy to bake new asics.
asciilifeform: (i would hope that l1 will last until trbi..)
asciilifeform: if you start seeing them ~regularly~ (say, trb makes it to 50 yrs from nao) you put in a l2 table.
Framedragger: yeah that's one reason i'm not too attracted to trb, tbh, the amount of sewage gruntwork required to decouple shit from the monolith.
asciilifeform: imho the 'hard part' is not even to implement this table, it is freshman homework, but to unravel the liquishit in trb and learn where to even put the lookup/write !
asciilifeform: i was recently considering implementing a similar scheme for phuctor, and realized today that it would work entirely well in trb.
asciilifeform: if you want to consider 'what would give best performance on the iron we have, with minimal moving parts, with the trb we have' this is what comes out.
asciilifeform: so in practice, you can have O(1) seeks ~while~ storing the blocks back-to-back in a classical trb.
asciilifeform: this form will almost certainly suffice for another decade of trb
asciilifeform: the Right Thing would probably be to have a very simple kernel driver that takes a specially-marked disk partition and gives userland trb linear use of it, as plain array
asciilifeform: who the fuck wants trb running as root
Framedragger: at least i have the excuse of not having looked at the bdb problem / staying away from trb for the time being :p
asciilifeform: it exists (wallet idiocy aside) in trb for 1 purpose and 1 purpose only
asciilifeform: let's put down in the log, what exactly ye olde bdb does, that eats 99+% of trb's wall clock:
trinque: connecting trb to it now
Framedragger: yeah, okay; as long as it's not fixed-width trb-i, no way around this.
asciilifeform: if you gotta actually break compatibility with ext4 and write new kernelspace driver -- may as well design proper (b-tree) fs for trb.
phf: ben_vulpes: if a111 got moved to sbcl earlier, the redundancy conversation would not have happened, and people happily would be writing trb code instead
a111: Logged on 2017-03-09 01:17 asciilifeform: paradoxically a trb-i is light years easier than 'cleaned trb'
Framedragger: re. priorities and (natural) lack of 'global amazing konsensus priority list of shit to do', in my humble and very noob mind they are something like; 'p'; gossipd or partial iteration towards it; invoicing system; << these three'd useful for outside-tmsr interests fo sho; and nfi re. trb, as on the one hand it's supposed to be super important,
mircea_popescu: so trb-ing is a huge anti-impedancer for everyone who could be working on it.
mircea_popescu: anyway, but the "i go write trbi" thing is not particularly useful as an exercise in solipsism, herculean or otherwise.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: since we're on subj of 'trbi', i was hoping to see the thread continue, re whether mempools, or whether my particular, or some other, scheme for abolition of mempool can be made to work , and so forth
asciilifeform: i oughta be quite specific re : 'nobody wants'. say i write a trbi, along one of the described schemes. nao wat -- mircea_popescu mines it ? and after this, who will want it ? 'just another premined alt!111' etc.
asciilifeform: the thing that cools asciilifeform's enthusiasm re 'trbi' to somewhere south of 3 kelvin, is that it isn't clear to him that anybody actually wants this, for something
asciilifeform: but this find is applicable, sadly, ~only~ to trbi
mircea_popescu: if they manage to stumble in their own robes and throusers until 2030 or so, trb might even live!
a111: Logged on 2016-11-07 18:49 mircea_popescu: just as long as i pay 700 bux to the trb, it's not going anywhere.
mircea_popescu: aanyway, FG patch for trb wouldn't hurt.
asciilifeform: it is interesting how much, imho, moar readable these are, than trb.
shinohai: asciilifeform: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/trb/original-bitcoin/
asciilifeform: ( incidentally, trb doesn't validate scripts in blocks. at. all. )
asciilifeform: which is why you'll often find trb-related tcp pipes randomly RST'd, and the like.
mircea_popescu: if net-trb decides to engage in a reorg, it will eventually induce one in all the wallet-trbs connected to it.
mircea_popescu: meh. wallet doesn't NOT store the chain. it's just stock trb.
mircea_popescu: then also conceivably the changes will be backported into trb main once well tested
davout: yeah, take a few trbs and cut different parts from each basically
mircea_popescu: conceivably can use current trb as your genesis for this.
mircea_popescu: then you can take stock trb, operate on it, and so people interested can pick both version, have internal-external couple.