ben_vulpes: christ what even is the point of a unary predicate in a language without closures
ben_vulpes: oh i know, just establish some more global state
ben_vulpes: you know, before calling the unary predicate
ben_vulpes: wait hang on i have a different critique
ben_vulpes: what even is the point of programming languages that don't in2 closures
a111: Logged on 2016-01-21 18:33 asciilifeform: that is, using corrupted versions of gcc
ben_vulpes: whatever, does not matter in the slightest.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu is in high spirits, must be nuts deep in something other than cpp
a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 17:49 asciilifeform: even gcc5 no longer does.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what was the reasoning behind your call that replacing trb's boostisms with c++11isms was an assault on grandfathers pistols? trb mustest compile with old gcc's?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: just fyi i attempted a single wget (single http request) of sadmods, got 500, phuctor main page now 500's :/
Framedragger: that's why i preluded with "if backend connects over tcp"
Framedragger: have you checked if maybe google army is attacking you now that you've changed the robots policy?..
Framedragger: (there's a `pg_terminate_backend(process_id)` which can be fed rows from `pg_stat_activity`, just fyi)
Framedragger: asciilifeform: does the new-factor/key-adder write to db under a different db user than the db reader which reads data for the web backend?
Framedragger: COPY (SELECT pid, client_addr, query_start, query FROM pg_stat_activity WHERE state <> 'active' ORDER BY client_addr ASC, query_start ASC) TO '/tmp/pg-zombies.txt' WITH CSV DELIMITER ' ';
Framedragger: oh but like, *active* requests? the use of the word "zombie" implied to me that the web requests themselves may have already died. okok.
BingoBoingo: Phuctor, in addition to.. you know its stated mission, is possibly the greatest intelligence gathering exercise so far in "single box vs. hordes" problem
phf: i take it phuctor is more like btcbase. a couple of thousand requests a day, with an occasional massive bot spike
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Trilema is "common" application of single box. Many people thusly blog. Phuctor is great because it is a big ball of weird RDBMS-BDSM
phf: they laughed at me when i said btcbase doesn't use a database, who's laughin now
trinque: are we doing the "I used it wrong; this proves my political views" thread again?
trinque: there are many reasons to hate rdbms. "cannot *at all* run something like phuctor" is not one of them
phf: trinque is the resident psql guru, he managed to wire his 50 request lisp process to a postgresql database
trinque: yes phf; this is the only work I've ever done
trinque: live in a garbage can with g_l
phf: tmsr work is primarily defined by its voluntary nature, if i had to do things same way i do it at the office i wouldn't bother. ascii doesn't know intricacies of psql from his day job, and i think it's cruel and inhuman to make him study psql ~as part of tmsr work~. it's not the kind of know how you get to learn by sitting down with a cup of tea and a large printout..
trinque: I think it's dishonorable to prattle on in propaganda mode when there are plenty of statements to be made about why the thing's shit from the position of understanding it.
trinque: nobody's forcing him to use it; now that he has one, I've made a few suggestions to lessen the pain
phf: ascii actually can criticize postgresql from the position of understanding. knowing intricacies of psql is not knowledge (rtrees, caching, etc.), it's trivia ("you have to turn lever 3 and depress button Y"). ascii knows what he needs to express, but he can't express it directly, because he's running against architectural constraints of his tool. from that perspective a general "databases are shit" is an entirely valid perspective.
trinque: this conveniently missing the point is shameful on you both.
trinque: can either bitch like a woman or fix the pain now and also move off later
trinque: so then your site is going to be down in teh meantime because of a combo of prior technical decisions and present political ones
trinque: I will wager one source of load is my RSS thing, which you bitched wasn't producing results quickly enough
trinque: phf: knowing how to use it is trivia, but tell me, where can I put a dataset now, which I do under no circumstances want to lose, which must be served concurrently to a wide number of clients, which, and so on
trinque: I'm not going to recite how mvcc works to you, nor what atomicity is, you're being dishonest
trinque: none of that is trivial, and I'm aware of one mature such example in common lisp, and you have to pay for it
trinque: which is fine, but I assume you're not over there running btcbase on allegro cache
trinque: for that matter, your common lisp can't even dump a textual representation of its entire state which can be loaded elsewhere disregarding arch
trinque: but we weren't talking about that; we were sidewinding onto whatever
trinque: no reason it can't; certainly should
trinque: anyone who thinks I'm defending SQL here is deaf
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:19 asciilifeform: and if folks insist on trying to bring it down, i will ban as much of ipv4 space as i have to.
trinque: phf: you can avoid the point as you choose. "there is a better land and we'll be there someday; don't eat til we get there, best food on earth, they have." has sunk many companies, and many people
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i'm not hammering it. check your logs.
Framedragger: after it gets a 504, it tries again. sequential.
Framedragger: i'm running wget *by hand*. wtf. you expose a href on the site. i try to get it. it fails. ?
Framedragger: but that's the last time i brought this up. i wanted to clarify that nobody's hammering it.
Framedragger: "your http client tries to re-request after request failed. DDoS!!"
phf: trinque: my point is ~why do you do what you do~. there's no hard pressing imperative to freak out, which is the bezzle way of things anyway.
trinque: phf: I'm speaking from the perspective that this data storage thing eventually gets solved in the republic.
trinque: can't shitbag the entire notion of "db" and expect to do that correctly
trinque: I've said before the thing needs to be split into many specific tools
phf: well, right, but you're not going to learn how to db by ~running~ databases. the whole "db" thing is an illusion anyway. rtrees, btrees, indexes, locking mechanisms, mvcc are all concrete algorithms, that you can implement in an adhoc manner for your task at hand and actually see how they work and what they do.
phf: allegro cache is actually a lot closer to how btcbase does it, than the postgresql way. internally the two are very different. if you treat both as "a database" you're not going to learn anything
phf: another alternative to doing the sql way is column stores (as an aside allegro cache is really more of a column store), where something like kdb is going to be a reference (the apl approach to databasing in general, of mmaping files with fixed size entries that you can offset into).
trinque: I would like to hear of the large firm that did their accounting on another type of db.
trinque: they don't have a billion of anything
trinque: no, consider the bundle of questions that enterprise (oil firm, whatever) must ask itself on an ongoing basis
trinque: over *massive* dataset which *is* relational regardless of the db you choose
trinque: that is the standard, not some piece of software
phf: talk about political
trinque: phf: the data is political??
trinque: asciilifeform: ~whole point~ is what the implemented item would look like
trinque: what problems do you encounter at that scale
phf: trinque: you've asked a question, that i was about to answer, but it turned out to be a rhetorical question, that you then used as a platform to make a political point, yes
trinque: phf: ah, then wasn't my intention
trinque: my point was that the customer for the item has these requirements; what does the item which satisfies them begin to resemble?
phf: and you're wrong as far "everyone uses sql11". merril lynch is famous for storing massive datasets in kdb. deutsche bank uses kdb as well as a handful of other datastores (i have some knowledge here), also two of the banks that i consulted for used object stores. that's just the projects that i consulted
trinque: phf: I didn't claim everybody uses SQL
trinque: I claimed that they will satisfy all the requirements by whichever means they choose
phf: most of them ~also use sql~. but likewise there's no such thing as "the database" there's also no such thing as "the database company uses to store its data". banks typically have 50-100 different large data stores, that serve different purposes
phf: but the reason that they don't all use sql, is because sql is really bad for certain narrow kinds of tasks and suboptimal for a slightly larger set of tasks
phf: anything involving real time data, anything involving time series, anything involving datasets > 100mil
phf: but on the other hand also anything involving objects of non-trivial topology (that's where you want object stores)
trinque: so we agree that this thing called "database" is really distinct tools which some idiot welded together
trinque: say atomic writes on a filesystem, transactional versioning atop that, ...
trinque: or referential integrity, indispensable for bitcoinating
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:51 phf: most of them ~also use sql~. but likewise there's no such thing as "the database" there's also no such thing as "the database company uses to store its data". banks typically have 50-100 different large data stores, that serve different purposes
trinque: I'll tell you; the glue between them by weight comes to dominate
trinque: (he's going to claim I'm arguing for ubiquitous SQL again and miss the point)
phf: what ~is~ the point you're trying to make? you say things, i address them, you immediately move on to some other point
shinohai: The only way to truly settle this matter is with swords.
trinque: phf: I'm having the same experience over here!
trinque will re-engage this in a bit
phf: trinque: ~what is the point you're trying to make~
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:37 phf: well, right, but you're not going to learn how to db by ~running~ databases. the whole "db" thing is an illusion anyway. rtrees, btrees, indexes, locking mechanisms, mvcc are all concrete algorithms, that you can implement in an adhoc manner for your task at hand and actually see how they work and what they do.
trinque: I can't sit down with something like that and ask it ANYTHING
trinque: because I'll be here for years creating glue
trinque: that is a statement of the ~problem
trinque: and not a statement of any particular solution
trinque: the database as (extremely poorly) implemented by sql rdbms is a generalization of the glue
lobbes: But re: fits in head. Isn't phf's/alfs argument that you cannot really even audit said generalized glue?
trinque: you have to be able to audit *two* things; the code, and the data, and independently
trinque: the guy who loves hard theory is going to claim the latter always derives from the former
trinque: the manager says... sure buddy
lobbes: I do come from the 'let the data speak for itself' school, so that makes sense to my limited understanding
phf: the "glue" point is a strawman, because you don't know how i write my code. as far as problem/solution though
phf: writing out each one of those concerns separately will teach you how to do it (or whether it can even be done, like with "atomic file system")
phf: but i don't think that working with a black box of rdbms will
phf: yes, you can't sit down with a collection of independent algorithms combined in a specific way and use it in a different way without writing extra code, but that's what repl is for
phf: ok, i guess we both know what the problem is. my solution is "study db related algorithms until you know enough to write a db", your solution, unless i misunderstand, seems to be "use an existing database a lot". i don't understand how learning, say, postgresql will get you from not knowing anything about db internal design to writing your own
trinque: I'm sure I've said SQL dbs are terrible a hundred times now.
trinque: asciilifeform did, so I didn't mind trying to help with that car wreck, having been in plenty of them myself
trinque: I don't criticize that he used it; I do all the time for lack of alternative which has the properties I want
trinque: and I agree with phf that my recourse is to write the thing I want
trinque: neither asciilifeform nor I did in particular cases due to practical tradeoffs of taking that time
trinque: the things pg did exceptionally well never come up in the "omg db sux" thread
trinque: and I'd question the ability of anyone to replace it who didn't bother with that list of things which has fuck all to do with SQL
trinque: yep, I'm out of this thread.
phf: in db sucks threads you necessarily talk about pain points. i don't think ~anybody~ here disputes that postgresql is a solid piece of engineering
phf: i'm not sure it's worthwhile to fetishize that quality either. if you attempt to write a db from scratch, postgresql internals is not the first place to look.
phf: but i don't think you're even talking about cracking open the covers? so what does the knowing of these "exceptionally well" things entail?
trinque: what'd you expect as a response to that first bit?
trinque: whole point having been that there are useful items in there that all got welded together
trinque: pg's versioned on-disk heap could've held trees as well as rows, eh?
trinque: and in fact does; that's how the versioning works
trinque: later versions pointing upward to previous
trinque: pointedly, where's my transactional, versioned, fault tolerant, *persistent* lisp system?
trinque: where disk is not some idiotic file storage but merely an implementation detail of persistence of memory
phf: well, that wasn't a rhetorical question, i was interested. so the second question remains, what does knowing entail in this case
trinque: the re-implementor of modern computing doesn't dispense with these as "you didn't really need that"
phf: that still doesn't answer my question, but the question is at the core of my point. you don't read existing implementations, you don't attempt to write new implementations, you're ~using~ a system that does these things for you. so what is ~knowing~ in this case.
trinque: I've both read postgresql source, several other db turds, written own, extended pg and mucked about heavily in internals
phf: trinque: well, then why not say it when i asked if you were talking about crackign open the source code? now i actually think that you're lying
trinque: I described how the thing writes rows to disk.
trinque: about done having my character attacked by this guy.
phf: but that's a roundabout way, and you could just read about it in a blog. if the position is that "we should study postgresql source code extensively, as a necessary prerequisite to writing our own database", then i would agree with you, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying
trinque: I could quote myself several times in this thread saying exactly that.
trinque: I'm done speaking with you.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 19:35 phf: but that's a roundabout way, and you could just read about it in a blog. if the position is that "we should study postgresql source code extensively, as a necessary prerequisite to writing our own database", then i would agree with you, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying
trinque: you made the assumption that when I was speaking of the things merits, I was speaking of what, the lever you pull and not what it actuates?
trinque: you did that aiming to pin me on something easily argued
trinque: that running forward with a bare assumption and then spending the whole thread trying to smash opponent into it has been the rule with you
phf: you clearly have some twisted issues related to me. ~that was not my intent~. ~i genuinely think that you were speaking of pulling levers~ ~because there's nowhere in the thread where you attempted to dissuade me of my notion~
phf: that's why i asked you point blank if you're talking about reading code, omg
phf: if that was such an obvious assumption, then why evade addressing it? that would've saved the whole thread! my assumption was ~very obvious~ as you yourself state ~all through the thread~, because ~that's what i assumed~
trinque: I'm not defending every fucking "OP is a redditard" you throw at me
phf: then why speak to me at all? i was arguing in good faith, as an attempt to move on from our previous alteration
phf: apparently that's not how they do things down south. once a grudge always a grudge. fine. we can agree not to talk to each other at all, nor mention each others names. i was sticking to that policy, and it worked fine for me. good day.
trinque: phf: one thing they don't do is speak for the other, then proceed from there as if it'd been said
trinque: probably about as southern as it gets, that one
trinque: and I don't see that you get much "culture of honor" without it
CompanionCube: besides, plush pillows are normally good for cuddling when you want to
ben_vulpes: "just remember you can't take your words back, these aren't Ethereum transactions"
mircea_popescu: you know, when trump gets elected. when the niggers who figured they were gonna use "consensus" to get the delicious chicken fail to get the delicious chicken.
shinohai imagines Vitalik reading the logs an thing mircea_popescu meant `Asi` is a new groundbreaking algorithm .....
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 15:25 asciilifeform: lol, thousand 'postgres: phuctor phuctor [local] SELECT' processes zombieing
BingoBoingo: * shinohai imagines Vitalik reading the logs an thing mircea_popescu meant `Asi` is a new groundbreaking algorithm ..... << Ass Sort Integrals, some very deep "Ito calculus"
mircea_popescu: incidentally, for all the ulterior leonization, the actual wild west was very much like this : buncha children captive in adult bodies trying to cope.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> o brother. you were here for the ito experts huh. << Nah, came for the drinks, stayed for the revolution.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> was 'ito calculus' authored by same 'genius' as 'igonvalue' ? << I see "ito calculus" as catchall for weaponized labels of Usagidiocy type
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 15:43 danielpbarron: phuctory reset
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's a narrow interest item, perfectly respectable in its niche. as bb says, ended up being a sort of shorthand for internet expert in here because randos and history.
mircea_popescu: fwiw, math finance goes through one of these every 3-4 years (ie, every time a new crop of collegiate tards ends up dominating the hiring pool)
mircea_popescu: was "gauss copula" for a while famously. was a buncha things, i have notes somewhere.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 15:53 asciilifeform: nah that'd be trilema
mircea_popescu: as asciilifeform correctly points out, there's not THAT much of a deal to insert an article once a day / a comment once an hour and otherwise serve reads.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 15:57 phf: they laughed at me when i said btcbase doesn't use a database, who's laughin now
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:03 phf: trinque is the resident psql guru, he managed to wire his 50 request lisp process to a postgresql database
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:07 phf: tmsr work is primarily defined by its voluntary nature, if i had to do things same way i do it at the office i wouldn't bother. ascii doesn't know intricacies of psql from his day job, and i think it's cruel and inhuman to make him study psql ~as part of tmsr work~. it's not the kind of know how you get to learn by sitting down with a cup of tea and a large printout..
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641374 << this is a perfectly reasonable view, and it'd carry were it not be tinged by a history of asciilifeform on occasion producing overgeneral statements not because he ran against design constraints of the space but because he ran against mental constraints of his own.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:15 phf: ascii actually can criticize postgresql from the position of understanding. knowing intricacies of psql is not knowledge (rtrees, caching, etc.), it's trivia ("you have to turn lever 3 and depress button Y"). ascii knows what he needs to express, but he can't express it directly, because he's running against architectural constraints of his tool. from that perspective a general "databases are shit" is an entirely valid perspective.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:17 trinque: can either bitch like a woman or fix the pain now and also move off later
mircea_popescu: in unrelated news : me goes into shop where girl has bought nice shot glasses to buy shot glasses. "do you have these in a box ?" "yes" "how many in the box ?" "uhh..." nicaraguan chick is very much willing to be picked up but has nfi how many shot glasses in 3x4 case.
mircea_popescu: then... she doesn't know how much for the dozen. if they're 400 each then 12 is... 3600...
mircea_popescu: i never saw unmath this bad aside of us college educated girls.
mircea_popescu: even in buenos aires, of every 10kw the ac ate, 7 to 8 made water.
mircea_popescu: btw -- i have no ac here. the girls are naked indoors. it's fabulous.
ben_vulpes: too dry, doesn't have the nasty taste of reality
shinohai: Now you can just have naked girls fan you mircea_popescu - win-win!
mircea_popescu: it rained once while i was there. took 5 minutes, most of the water was gone before touching soil.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you could get your ac connected to the water pipe -- like the fridges with built in ice maker.
shinohai: It's 83 degrees on my patio and sun is going down
ben_vulpes: pac nw is still extricating itself from winter
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform save on electricity through spraying it in finely i think ? not sure, never took one apart.
trinque: 77 out; I was promised warming apocalypse
trinque: best april we've had in recent memory
mircea_popescu: i was there in winter, so not much call for anything of the sort.
ben_vulpes: schizophrenic weather gods will continue with the increasingly bipolar weather until the humans die off adequately to restore ecological sanity
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:25 asciilifeform: trinque ^ this is both true and imho a serious problem
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:31 asciilifeform: i have actual work to do, and do not have time to babysit the process all day, every day.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:31 Framedragger: ok this is ridiculous, i'm done
mircea_popescu: actually the english word engineer denotes furnace stoker.
mircea_popescu: unlike the french word ingenieur, for instance. which comes from genius, or whatever, ingenuity
ben_vulpes: i'll take ingenues over ingenieurs any day
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:37 phf: well, right, but you're not going to learn how to db by ~running~ databases. the whole "db" thing is an illusion anyway. rtrees, btrees, indexes, locking mechanisms, mvcc are all concrete algorithms, that you can implement in an adhoc manner for your task at hand and actually see how they work and what they do.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:43 asciilifeform: sql is a car with a gas and break pedal for each wheel.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 19:16 trinque: whole point having been that there are useful items in there that all got welded together
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this, i am aware. but i suspect the "concept of db" trinque defends is "here is the set of definitive -- because mature -- things that handle data ; fucking use it".
trinque: ^ not coming across is why the thread was ridiculous
mircea_popescu: not the nonsensical "oh, paperclip!" microsoft access / lotus 1-2-3 / novell bs approach
mircea_popescu: well, alfie, there could ALSO EXIST SUCH A THING AS A PROGRAMMABLE COMPUTER
mircea_popescu: you're both welcome now shake hands and stop being so pissy all the time. life's too square and my fruit salad too good to waste suchly!
shinohai still wants to see a sword duel, failing that.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641453 << the hft trading folk are about as dumb as the "serious www publishing folk". the "implement from scratch" thing is a fiction, there to justify insane and unjustifiable expense. exaclty how and exactly why any third hand "outside consultant" in third world sells random dopes on "whole new cms!!11" for their "project" so it is "for srs professional".
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:47 asciilifeform: if your operation seriously relies on the db, it implements custom db, from scratch, like the hft trading folks do.
mircea_popescu: but in truth and behind the scene it's 100% code reuse in the most "found on forum and pasted in" manner.
mircea_popescu: about half the "pro" trading houses do about half of their trading on the basis of poorly understood and badly maintained excel spreadsheets.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same relationship as between script kiddie and trojan writers
mircea_popescu: it's a complicated discussion to carry in those terms.
mircea_popescu: essentially speaking, front running is a natural crown monopoly, like hunting.
mircea_popescu: how exactly this is disbursed, whether you need rifle to hunt and then crown taxes rifles, ie, through a technically mediated barrier, or purely conventional, is not properly speaking a technical discussion.
mircea_popescu: the people paying themselves megabux aren't going to be doing for the reason they told you they did it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform picture this : if tomorrow north korea came up with superlight hft method and tried to apply it... suddenly front running would be simply illegal.
mircea_popescu: so, with some regret, i will confess that no, high finance doth not qualify as that place where they have real software (tm).
mircea_popescu: and no, the excel mentiuon was not a throwaway joke. it is factual reality, even today.
mircea_popescu: that's the problem of wastage in opaque faux capitalism.
trinque: the accountant fellow I mentioned, for $100mil scale oil contract compliance, also excel macros.
trinque: might be a feature (TM) (R)
mircea_popescu: from what i could discern, it's because of familiarity bias.
mircea_popescu: "excel i understand" "no you don't" "but i've been using it forever" "not even that."
mircea_popescu: it's their hypercad. "When i was a wee tyke this seemed like srs bzns"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i make most of my money out of being capable to use the tool that's adequate for the job whereas everyone else just goes with the fastest loop.
mircea_popescu: this seems about as unlikely as saying "in sane russia, sexually attractive women and women with pleasant personalities are the same woman"
mircea_popescu: batching was the preferred mode of engineers. historically.
mircea_popescu: yeah well. anthropologically relevant though, created a whole identity mythos.
trinque: this'd be one of those overly broad ones.
mircea_popescu: i have no position here, merely observing the history of the thing.
mircea_popescu: !!deed for instance works fine by my eyes, but it does not pass the "monkey do, monkey see" test.
trinque: to quote my old boss, one of his better observations imo is that spreadheets (and db as discussed in thread) are tools for classification and distinction
mircea_popescu: trinque the issue is that just because it felt convenient to the wee tyke it doesn't follow it is ~useful~.
mircea_popescu: cocaine is the eminent example. it FEELS like it does things to you. it does not therefore HELP.
mircea_popescu: and this goes directly to all the "no mp, dope totally makes you a better thinker" threads.
trinque: the vast majority of the accountant guy's job is defining categories, listing their properties, relating them to each other
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 23:58 trinque: the accountant fellow I mentioned, for $100mil scale oil contract compliance, also excel macros.
trinque: visicalc and descendants leaned most this way, and thus he still uses that when alternatives aparrently exist
mircea_popescu: lobbes what happens when they starty paying the btc ransoms ?
trinque: lobbes: of the NoSQLs of which I'm aware, that's the saddest
mircea_popescu: you realise all it takes is for someone to salt the parking lot with hello kitty usbs.
lobbes: Tis a purely political reason, of course
trinque: mircea_popescu: what'd the guy's classification and distinction device look like in the alternative?
mircea_popescu: i am not proposing an alternative for that function. doctor isn't in the line of proposing replacement for cocaine, and from the "i wanna feel good" perspective the whole pharmacopoea is a waste of space.
trinque: or biologist, goes on safari, starts catalog of observations, begins drawing relationships between them
lobbes was dismayed when I came in, automated a 40 hr excel proccess down to about 10mins just by using sql (access of all the god awful things) only to be told it was verboten
mircea_popescu: let the man play with his excel and feel happy, just like some writers prefer to sketch their novels in gf's faeces on bathroom floor. none of this makes gf shit an economically relevant inkwell system.
lobbes: Now I pour my brain into tmsr, much more rewardinf
mircea_popescu: lobbes see, because they made the mistake of banning things instead of simply banning stupid.
lobbes: That is a great summation
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641504 << From experience, there's a definite slot for learning filled by sql. i personally show girls how to use a db for their own shit, which may be simply grocery lists ("now tell me how many kgs of pepper we bought by day last year"). truthg be told the path to a structured mind is long and arduous.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 18:29 phf: ok, i guess we both know what the problem is. my solution is "study db related algorithms until you know enough to write a db", your solution, unless i misunderstand, seems to be "use an existing database a lot". i don't understand how learning, say, postgresql will get you from not knowing anything about db internal design to writing your own
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this naive view is mostly borne of not much using excel.
mircea_popescu: the attempt to understand another's excel pile is not unliuke trying to grok the intended functioning of the preferred emacs setup of a rabid squirrel.
mircea_popescu: in my own (limited) experience, every time i found myself consulting for this lot i had them write, by hand, in narrative form, what they thought their excels did.
mircea_popescu: before coming up with the "Write it down. By hand." i had an excel depacker, which cost me literal man-years to have made and tuned, and which was good but far from perfect.
mircea_popescu: (and no, it NEVER happened that two people in the same team using the same tools actually had compatible notions of what the tools did.)
mircea_popescu: it's just not clear that the particular sense is actually relevant in any public sense.
mircea_popescu: and this goes right back ot the literacy vs hyeroglyphs thread, amusingly enough.
mircea_popescu: and my party girls would not have been well served by the soviet dress fashions for professional females cca 1965.
mircea_popescu: also, i dunno how relevant but factual in any case : 90% of in-house it support requests from excel users is exactly, "i did thing and it did i dunno what or why halp!1"
mircea_popescu: which is ~how "from scratch for srs db" projects even end up engaged in by banks and their ilk. the it dept is pushing relentlessly for away-from-excel for this reason every single board meeting.
mircea_popescu: "we'll end up hiring two excel support people for every backofice gurl!!"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, they want to do things that don't involve talking to girls or ~~~horror of horrors~~~ being at their call.
mircea_popescu: got a number to save me from fishing through the memorabilia tripod ?
mircea_popescu: if pressed i wouldn't even have imagined there were 1mn people who doi things left in the 80s us.
mircea_popescu: puts in perspective what maga has to actually accomplish.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't think su ever delivered 1mn of any kind of calculating machine, since we're on it.
mircea_popescu: this has been a very informative discussion, i had nfi.
mircea_popescu: first-cleanner. then-oil. then-light cig. then put out fire.
mod6: i've been following along off and on all day.
mod6: need to get the last few hours
mircea_popescu: it's how you do military salute if you're playing excel-in-space
mircea_popescu: i dunno how active it is or anything ; but we were pretty rich if memory serves.
mod6: im about to try to load up this offline phys box with all the blocks.
mod6: wrote a perl one liner to cut them all apart with blkcut... now just gotta feed 'em in.
mod6: 15k blocks and counting
mod6: -verifyall & -caneat
mod6: box is: 24 CPU / 64Gb RAM / 1Tb Kingston SSD
mod6: lol, disk is probably going to start on fire.
mircea_popescu: a yea good point : folks plox fan your ssds when doing mass blockeat experiments etc.
mod6: i've got mine in a std enclosure and it's got a faned bp. but... if she fries, well, she fries.
mod6: a good test either way.
mircea_popescu: i had one i couldn't touch. hence keep ssds in fanned thing
mod6: this is pretty f'ing awesome, actually.
shinohai: I need a better SSD, these girls better step up their game.
mod6: there's like 180k+ blocks in blk0001.dat
mod6: i cut apart 50 .dat files. noodle on that for a minute. and these dickweeds want BIGGER blocks.
mod6: asciilifeform: got that book from pong chu
shinohai: All except lukejr, but he's just a contradictory blockhead
mod6: thx for the heads up
mod6: there's an example in here of a FIFO circular queue in verilog, neat.
mod6: mircea_popescu: cool
mod6: asciilifeform: ah, ok.
mod6: i was thinking about taking my xilinx board and seeing if I can throw your fg-genesis on there.
mod6: yeah, not sure if this one is ok...
mod6: i did get that xilinx platform cable usb deal in the mail too.
mod6: 86 +// div128, for UART's 115200b on 14.7456MHz crystal.
mod6: the chip i've got is a 'xilinx spartan XC3S500E'
mod6: looking forward to getting into this stuff a bit.
mod6: for edu purposes, etc.
mod6: when i start actually doing somethings, i'll take some pics.
mod6: i'd like to audit one of these fgs soon too.
mod6: might give that a try tomorrow
mod6: i may write up something on my website, or send something to qntra
mod6: speaking of which, my mom asked about BingoBoingo
mod6: she's been mainly 100% delirious. but in a moment of slurred-opiate semi-clarity, she asked me "hows BingoBoingo?"
mod6: ^ my reaction exactly.
mod6: yeah, she's in hospice now. they're keeping her pretty comfortable.
mod6: she was semi-lucid until friday. but been pretty much not-eating & sleeping all day since.
mod6: well, she was sleeping all day on saturday. then for a moment, she woke up, got pissed off, tried to get out of bed, fell down. then wrestled two nurses, and sucker punched one in the face.
mod6: felt so bad for the young lady. it wasn't a hard punch or anything... but still. lol.
mod6: they came over and gave her a pretty big dose of valium<sp> or whatever.
mod6: then it was back to night-night.
mod6: i think the bed alarm threw her into a rage. the thing started going off like a UPS alarm.
mod6: it was quite something to behold. here's a lady, clinging to breath, hardly moves, then gets up and fights to young women.
mod6: its something else 'eh
mod6: danielpbarron: hey, did you ever figure out whatever with your openbsd deed you were trying to do?
mod6: TomServo: any update on the issues you ran into?
TomServo: mod6: Sorry, nothing to report as yet. Node is still running, wedged, and untouched. Haven't had time to delve any deeper.
mod6: Ok, thanks for the update.
mod6: ben_vulpes: so if i have a `std::map<ktype, std::vector<vtype>> stuffMap`, is it legal to say `stuffMap[k].push_back(newV)` << should be fine as long as newV is of vtype.
shinohai: If the shitty, 4 year old hardware I run my node hasn't burnt down the house yet I'm highly optimistic for you mod6 :D
shinohai just likes shitty old computers ...
shinohai: I'm still hopeful I'll find something that'll run on that Dell I salvaged a few weeks ago.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i always wished there were such a thing as an ac with a throttle << Not throttle, needs adjustable clutch
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cocaine is the eminent example. it FEELS like it does things to you. it does not therefore HELP. << The problems with cocaine hcl powder is that in little time even that feeling goes that and you are left with only feeling of wanting moar cocaine
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i am not proposing an alternative for that function. doctor isn't in the line of proposing replacement for cocaine, and from the "i wanna feel good" perspective the whole pharmacopoea is a waste of space. << This is why CIA popularized freebase salt of cocaine
BingoBoingo: <mod6> she's been mainly 100% delirious. but in a moment of slurred-opiate semi-clarity, she asked me "hows BingoBoingo?" << I am doing well, celebrate 18 months of continuous sobriety later this month.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> compress as-needed, blow -- as-needed. << Thinking on it, AC may be the one application where CVT transmission makes sense
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> seems as if -- there could easily be. << Probably low hanging fruit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform soviets similarily denied afghani whatever, then permitted again. this suggests - empire doesn't honestly gas.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> for that particular value of worx. << The second best treatment for addiction disorders is drugs of abuse
trinque: this is the kind of thing of which you're disabused after you reach your personal tolerance of bros telling you their great business idea
trinque: might give you the will to march, but all directions seem equally great ideas