Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
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deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/actual-anthropology-yet-another-minor-function-of-the-functioning-harem/ << Trilema - Actual anthropology, yet another minor function of the functioning harem.
asciilifeform: 'the toaster has a cancel button on it,' << lol!!
asciilifeform: i've seen paper shredders with reverse gear, but those at least make some kind of sense ( unjamming )
mircea_popescu: industrial red button very much different item
mircea_popescu: (most machine powered moving lines come with an emergency stop, which is also mandated by labour safety in many contexts and for good reason )
lobbes: am I the only one who has seen/used a cancel button on a toaster before? Put toast in for $maxtime, wait until it looks/smells done, hit button and bam, perfect toast.
mircea_popescu: however, you eminently can't cancel toasting, it's the paradigmatic enthalpic process, and anyone with a college education (such as, presumably, anyone involved in the production of objects, and in general in any practical portion of white civilisation) would be aware.
lobbes: I guess the point is that it is redundant; pushing up on the main lever has the same effect.
mircea_popescu: lobbes turning the knob back to 0 not exactly same ?
mircea_popescu: there is, you understand this, there is no way to cancel toasting.
lobbes: I've always seen it as "stop toasting" or "cease your toasting"
mircea_popescu: the "cancelling" will happen either in the imagination ("this bread doesn't really look as if it were toasted so it wasn't") or else in the imagination some other way. but in reality, toasting is irreversible.
mircea_popescu: but this is not the same thing, is it ?
mircea_popescu: hence my point, re "they in the culture are strictly unable of either understanding or meaningfully describing culture"
lobbes: true
mircea_popescu: ie, i wouldn't trust george hunt to explain kawaikutl, ESPECIALLY because he washes and also speaks english./
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's many portions of "what occurs" that occur strictly in the imagination. "healthy", for instance. this isn't fundamentally wrong -- but anthropology is specifically the scholarly delineation of these. as they're at least seemingly needed for normal functioning in most contexts, and generally adaptative, they're not readily accessible to the common intellect.
mircea_popescu: as per "the soldier whio thinks he'll win makes a better soldier than the soldier who thinks he'll lose -- though nobody yet walked on a battlefield and won". or w/e, replace "gambler" for "soldier" if you prefer.
jurov: mod6: can we close the auction 10 hours early? I won't have much time tomorrow.
lobbesbot: jurov: Sent 1 day, 15 hours, and 30 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> is the http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=makefiles dead ?
jurov: asciilifeform: yes dead for now, it was running on same heathenvps as the mailing list
asciilifeform: jurov: can haz it again plox ? it was pretty great, i used it in all of my trb work
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870187 << i personally own several machines with such buttons, they make perfect sense
a111: Logged on 2018-11-08 14:45 mircea_popescu: (most machine powered moving lines come with an emergency stop, which is also mandated by labour safety in many contexts and for good reason )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870189 << from that pov, 'you can't unsaw fingers' , either, yet the saw has the switch
a111: Logged on 2018-11-08 14:46 mircea_popescu: however, you eminently can't cancel toasting, it's the paradigmatic enthalpic process, and anyone with a college education (such as, presumably, anyone involved in the production of objects, and in general in any practical portion of white civilisation) would be aware.
asciilifeform: i dun think there even ~is~ a power tool that dun fit the 'paradigmatic enthalpic process' formulation
asciilifeform: ( 'stop' button on toaster is still a lol, thing has power cord, and i can't picture why you would want to cut the current faster than it takes to yank the cord, it ain't a saw )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually i can think of 1 industrial tool that is, to a degree, 'reversible' in the thermodynamic sense, even ~after~ finger went in. the thread cutter. standard instruction , if idjit gets his finger in, is to get him to stay put while the thing is slowly put in reverse, then ends up only with heavy bruise, rather than skinned (if pulled straight out)
mod6: jurov: sure, sounds fine to me.
mod6: I'm not sure how to close the auction prematurely. But...
mod6: !Xlist
auctionbot: B#1006 O=311mn LB=310mn E=2018-11-08 13:48:41.550007 (10h6) >>> 2k wFF
auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 310mn total bids ---
mod6: I'm prepared to accept the bid.
mod6: asciilifeform, BingoBoingo any objections here?
asciilifeform: mod6: can't think of any ( but does the bot have an actual cancel-toast button ? )
asciilifeform: cuz if it doesn't, the toast had better fully toast, or we're living in sin imho
mod6: If not, then jurov, please go ahead and send the wire to the DC ( you can use the same info from last time ). If you need the wire info again, please say so and I'll have BingoBoingo send it to you.
mod6: Also, please send me a btc addy to pay you at, will send the coins within 24 hours -- probably later today for sure.
mod6: asciilifeform: there is an !Xcancel, but not a close.
mod6: Not sure if cancel-toast would untoast the auction. I'd like there to be a record of the auction, so I'm fine to let it close by expiry.
diana_coman: re auction bot: the way this sort of thing worked in eulora is basically by agreement; afaik there is no untoast button (nor do I see how it would make sense really)
asciilifeform: imho letting auction carry on even tho the auctioned item already left the house , is playing with fire
diana_coman: asciilifeform, as long as one has replacement in case it's needed...; for the other part though, there is also the in-wot thing, not like "anyone can bid"
mod6: i can see that arg, asciilifeform. lobbes are you opposed to an !Xclose <auction_number> : which would accept the current highest bid? mircea_popescu, et. al. is this a good idea?
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-16#1863219 -> whine! I get the record neat representation part in Ada (or so I think). Re serialization though my current understanding is that I *have to* use ...Streams; is this even correct?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-16 13:56 diana_coman: at any rate when I get to the records I might come and whine loudly if I get stuck
asciilifeform: diana_coman: hrm, why wouldja ~have~ to use streams ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, how can I serialize the record into an array of octets? I keep thinking there's something obvious that I just don't get
diana_coman: or what, just unchecked on the whole thing?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: either this, or the 'unchecked conversion' you had earlier (given that you specify a fixed size for the record, you will always end up with the given number of octets, it has no failure mode)
diana_coman: hm, I kept thinking for some reason that there was a 3rd way (i.e. NOT streams and not unchecked) but I just did not see it; I'll have a look at the unchecked unions
asciilifeform: i suppose the 3rd way would be to write simple serializer ( that uses System.Address and yourthing'Size ) to turn your record type into (and out of) the requisite # of octets, and compartmentalize all of the System.Address'ism in 1 module. i have something quite similar to this in my mmap lib.
asciilifeform: but as for the q of 'can haz this without any smell of c sulfur' , the answr is no, because entire concept is slightly antithetical to adaism, and so you gotta 'cheat' at least a little in order to permit it.
asciilifeform: according to the 'rationale' document, serialization is ~the~ reason why streams are even a thing
asciilifeform: hence in 'nqb' , i used a (custom-sewn) stream
diana_coman: that's the thing: wherever I turned re serialization it kept pushing the streams, hence my earlier "it seems I have to use streams,eurgh"
asciilifeform: there's exactly 2 ways to do it -- the above conversion mechanisms, or the stream (read nqb to see how) . cuz transmutation of data types is a specifically dangerous act, that is deliberately not made easy in ada
diana_coman: I still can't quite see the reason to make a stream in order to write a known-size record to a known-size array of octets though
diana_coman: in this particular case the unchecked conversion still makes more sense to me
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's safe (i.e. endianism-proof) if you actually nail down the layout of the record (see barnes re how)
diana_coman: I'll play a bit with those unchecked unions too though, I hadn't looked at them
asciilifeform: when you do this kind of thing, you gotta make sure that the proggy behaves correctly regardless of what rubbish may have been put into the octet form that gets transformed to the record. ( possibly this is obvious, but imho bears restating )
asciilifeform: type cast is the single most dangerous operation there is ( second only to pointerism, and notice how ada makes the latter extremely painful ) hence the thing forces you to 'measure 7 times, cut 1ce'
jurov: asciilifeform: lxr should be back up
asciilifeform: jurov: yay! ty!
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I honestly don't feel any pain re pointerism as I don't miss it AT ALL
asciilifeform: diana_coman: so far the only place i've used it, is c glue
asciilifeform: ( i.e. where not escapable )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform many things are "partially reversible". phb hanging over table ends up with necktie pulled in. reversible up to the isadora duncan moment.
diana_coman: fwiw those past few days I had to get back to some C/CPP code and there was this funny moment where I read some code adding 2 vars of different types and my mind went instantly eeeek
diana_coman: so yes, Ada spoils one basically
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right
asciilifeform: diana_coman: ikr ?
asciilifeform: it's like going into sewer after working in cleanroom
mircea_popescu: mod6 you can close it prematurely by convention, i guess. there's good reason not to have a dedicated button, however.
diana_coman: quite! and unfortunately I'll still have the works in the sewer in parallel for quite a while
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm sorta used to the 'eek', having a daytime saecular work that happens 100% in sewer
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870226 << what's the fire, you'll be stuck with, in the worst case, two items ? you can use them.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-08 15:50 asciilifeform: imho letting auction carry on even tho the auctioned item already left the house , is playing with fire
asciilifeform: yea makes sense. diana_coman made same observation earlier
asciilifeform: could be, i suppose, bigger headache , if auction were for the graf zeppelin, rather than some lunchmoney
mircea_popescu: yes, well, in that case "i'm busy tomorrow" would carry a lot less water.
mircea_popescu: things work themselves out.
asciilifeform: verily.
jurov: We checked our notes and it came out that exact amount needed for pizarro datacenter payment is $2934.06 USD. The auction was intended for this amount, not just "$2k". Am i right mod6 BingoBoingo?
mod6: Yes, that's correct. I didn't put in the correct amount.
mod6: I thought we had it covered with the two previous auctions, but jurov thankfully noted that we'd have been short.
mod6: We will be using the same price amount per BTC:
mod6: !Qcalc 2000/.31
lobbesbot: mod6: 6451.61290323
mod6: !Qcalc 2934.06/6451.61
lobbesbot: mod6: 0.454779504651
mod6: jurov: Sound good?
mod6: Any other objections to this? asciilifeform, BingoBoingo ?
asciilifeform: mod6: loox ok
jurov: Yes, it's 0.45477950 BTC for $2934.06 USD.
mod6: Sounds like a deal, thanks a ton jurov!
BingoBoingo: Looking good
mod6: *thumbsup*
jurov: Wire sent.
mod6: Nice, thank you, Sir. :]
asciilifeform: btw, diana_coman were you able in the end to make sense of the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2675 proof ? ( mircea_popescu's s.mg broadcast implies that yes -- but thought i oughta ask conceretely )
BingoBoingo: And in breaking news, Ruth Bader Ginsburg's ribs. She's on the wrong side of 85... Trump is probably getting a third Supreme Court nominee soon.
asciilifeform: *concretely
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lol!
asciilifeform: a++ gerontocracy, would brezhnev again!1
bvt: hello, i have finally genesised the ada base64 lib: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/11/base64-genesis/
a111: Logged on 2018-11-08 17:40 asciilifeform: btw, diana_coman were you able in the end to make sense of the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2675 proof ? ( mircea_popescu's s.mg broadcast implies that yes -- but thought i oughta ask conceretely )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: ok good
asciilifeform: bvt: neato, i will read
asciilifeform: bvt: the base64 thing will come in very handy for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-01#1868643 item
a111: Logged on 2018-11-01 20:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: happens to be exactly what i set out to; on top of that, even got a gpg extractor (currently in py, but slated for adaization) , precisely for same
asciilifeform: !!rated bvt
deedbot: asciilifeform rated bvt 1 at 2018/10/10 21:20:12 << n00b, ada/vtronics experiments
asciilifeform: !!rate bvt 2 adatronics
asciilifeform: !!v 13E785BFE17551850FE162FA3F8EE8FCF0DC73E31F0F660C1BFF0E38BBEF6FFE
deedbot: asciilifeform updated rating of bvt from 1 to 2 << adatronics
asciilifeform will bbl
bvt: asciilifeform: thanks. radix-64 (gpg ascii armor) is pretty similar to the RFC base64, so changes to the code will be minimal.
asciilifeform was reading recent http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com , and ran into the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-27#1866726 item; curious, did anybody answer these ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-27 17:17 hanbot: mod6, ben_vulpes, et al: nicoleci sent 31 emails (as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861765 ) to various news outlets last night, and will report any replies here. i expect more mail to go out this week, will update.
asciilifeform: ( or was it 'blue wall of silence', phuctor-style )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform none so far.
asciilifeform: i'dve naively thought that of 31 fishwraps , at least 1 is not fully retarded
asciilifeform: ( even phuctor made it into some ru thing 1ce )
mircea_popescu: i'd be surprised if, over the entirety of conde nast "portofolio", there's a man-day per day of actual attention available. http://trilema.com/2015/okcupidcom-the-dating-site/#selection-45.141-45.160 is in no different shape, and none of the smaller spamfarms differ in any sense.
asciilifeform: most of'em prolly run 100% on perlscript nao, also
asciilifeform: with 0 human in loop
mircea_popescu: the way of the web is "have people talk into the bag", tv minds tryna hard to re-create tv out of the information superhighway truck.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as close as practicable, yes, bearing in mind however they use excel scripts.
mircea_popescu: so... some subhuman involved.
mircea_popescu: not the kind that can actually respond to salutations tho. ("too much pressure").
asciilifeform: subhuman is typically 'programmed' with '3ring' formulary binder, and we aint in it
asciilifeform: 'hmm, letter re bitcoin, lessee what gavin says'
asciilifeform: ( or whoever the fuck is the current gavin, i've lost track of the concretes )
BingoBoingo: One of the people with an oddly Dutch appearing name
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/11/ontario-state-cannabis-store-and-canada-post-publish-information-on-canadian-stoners/ << Qntra - Ontario State Cannabis Store And Canada Post Publish Information On Canadian Stoners
mircea_popescu: ie "everybody".
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870228 << the way !Xcancel works right now 'behind the scenes' is that it inserts the <auction_number> into the "closed" table. This isn't much different than when an auction "resolves" normally (<auction_number> also inserted into same table), the only difference is that the bot doesn't "announce" a winner when !Xcancel is used
a111: Logged on 2018-11-08 15:51 mod6: i can see that arg, asciilifeform. lobbes are you opposed to an !Xclose <auction_number> : which would accept the current highest bid? mircea_popescu, et. al. is this a good idea?
lobbes: In other words, order history (along with all top bids, etc.) is preserved whether you !Xcancel or just let the auction run its course.
lobbes: in other news: I'm going to be getting all 4 of my wisdom teeth yanked out tomorrow. While I'll be near my terminal, I may be out of commission for a few days. I'll be following the logs as usual (assuming I'm not knocked out from pain meds)
trinque: that's a fun one; good luck lobbes
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-12#1642735 << relatedly, to add anecdotal evidence to this thread I can confirm: do not try and tempt fate by leaving these suckers in.. it feels like a vice-grip has been slowly tightening on my skull for the last few weeks..
a111: Logged on 2017-04-12 22:11 mircea_popescu: on the long term this pressure kills them as sure as sugar.
lobbes: thanks trinque
lobbes bbl meat
mod6: Hey, thanks for the info lobbes. GL with the dentist.
mod6: !Xcancel 1006
auctionbot: Buy order # 1006 was cancelled by mod6
mod6: !!ledger
trinque: http://161.0.121.250 << hey all, opened up a public toilet for txn. probably doesn't even work. enjoy!
asciilifeform: trinque: what's it made of ?
trinque: about 5 lines of py
mircea_popescu: !#seen mocky
a111: I haven't seen mocky
mircea_popescu: !#seen Mocky
a111: 2018-11-06 <Mocky> alright, lol
mircea_popescu: did he cook ?
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