Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-10-26 | 2018-10-28 → ↓
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/systemd-vulnerability-allows-crashing-systems-remotely-and-probably-executing-code-too-with-dhcpv6-packets/ << Qntra - SystemD Vulnerability Allows Crashing Systems Remotely (And Probably Executing Code Too) With DHCPv6 Packets
mircea_popescu: o hey Mocky
Mocky: good morning
mircea_popescu: top systemd keks. pwn eins!
BingoBoingo still waiting to hear the new fope's identity
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it was just a throway oneliner ic ame up with while walking off a steak, sadly no more there.
Mocky: mircea_popescu, do you have any interest in kuwait? if so I can keep this lead warm on the back burner while I work qatar
mircea_popescu: Mocky not particularly, but i mean... your gf or w/e.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo it was just a throway oneliner ic ame up with while walking off a steak, sadly no more there. << AH, I though maybe Tess Hollandaise died of excess mass and had been replaced as leader of the hamplanets by a younger, dumpier model
mircea_popescu: fraid not.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/cabinas-genesis-y-otras-ostras/ << Trilema - Cabinas Genesis y otras ostras.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-27#1866701 - ok, I'll implement it this way then and we see
a111: Logged on 2018-10-27 01:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866669 <<< this statement is too general. "which one has the largest first octet". that's it.
deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/07e-hermannstadt-ii.html << The Tar Pit - Hermannstadt, part two: the huge-ass photo shoot
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2593 << Loper OS - Can the Serpent Cipher fit in the ICE40 FPGA?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically, if it fits in 1/3 of the chip ?
asciilifeform: approx, yes ( tho keep in mind that said chip, in order to do useful work, gotta have at least a bit of room for other things, unless one were to equip board with >1 ( not end of the world, they're, what, 8bux ) )
hanbot: mod6, ben_vulpes, et al: nicoleci sent 31 emails (as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861765 ) to various news outlets last night, and will report any replies here. i expect more mail to go out this week, will update.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 07:14 hanbot: anyway the idea is to have an exhaustive list of news outlets with their contact email made, after which i'll have her mail that blurb; i expect something like a week's turnaround, and will report when it's done.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: observe also that the sbox mechanism is 'bitsliced' (i.e. the bits move only 'vertically' there ) so potentially it can be shrunk at expense of speed . so the real puzzler isn't 'does serpent fit', it can almost certainly be shoehorned, but 'with how little/much unrollage' i.e. what resulting eating bitrate.
asciilifeform: it is also possible that the equations can be simplified further, i did a fairly surface job of it, mostly by hand
asciilifeform: literally 2hr's evening wurk.
asciilifeform: btw, spoiler : i put the thing in an ice40-8k , simply did not have time to write up yet, and the fwd sbox in fact eats roughly 1/4 of the gates . which leaves the orig question wide open...
asciilifeform: in other minutiae, the terms i left in xor-containing form, can of course be expressed in not/and/or , but this resulted in seven-term ORs , which i assumed is a greater delay than to let it use a xor LUT; but this is not experimentally confirmed, and one might conceivably get better throughput if all of the terms were rewritten in the and/or/not form.
asciilifeform: 'yosys' ( 'icestorm'-'s synthesizer, suggests a max clock rate of ~25Mhz for the posted form. )
asciilifeform: hanbot: neato, ty
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so did you measure throughput of this thing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as in, whether it actually sboxates at the stated 25MHz ? notyet, gotta write a serial i/o thing for it, to do this. possibly later today.
asciilifeform: i expect the sbox won't actually be the bottleneck in a full serpentron tho
asciilifeform: rather, it'll be the rotational transforms.
asciilifeform: those are blocking, i.e. take multiple clocks ea.
asciilifeform: imho, if an ice40 can be coaxed into serpenting at , say, 1MB/s, it's worth sumthing, otherwise iffy
asciilifeform: ( and conceivably, worth sumthing even if it takes having ~two~ on the board; problem is that i dun presently have a board with 2 , to actually try )
asciilifeform: believe or not, seems like nobody has ever publicly baked a board with >1
asciilifeform: i've gathered afaik all of the commercial demo boards with ice40, they all have 1 ea.
asciilifeform: if i were baking asic ( not sure why anybody would blow 'orbit' moneys on serpent asic, but for the sake of arg ) would unroll the sbox invocation the way it is unrolled in the pc serpent diana_coman is using, there'd be no reason not to have 128 or what, independent copies. but in the tight space of ice40 this is out of the question.
asciilifeform: err, 32
asciilifeform: is the actual parallelism of the algo. the rotator would likewise win from having 32 physical instances, as obvious from http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/#selection-87.15048-87.17527
asciilifeform: so from that point it becomes a q of the actual gate delays. in principle a serpentron that does coupla 100MB/s is physically possible. ( just not on my desk, lol )
asciilifeform: i admit, the seekrit reason asciilifeform could even be arsed to pick the thing up, is that to write serpent in maximally algebraic form might tell us sumthing useful re the weakness.
asciilifeform: ( the orig author, to be fair, did write it algebraically, but in imho somewhat cryptic form )
mod6: hanbot: That's awesome, thanks!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: grr, typo, ~65~ not 25
asciilifeform: but funnily enuff, just from this 2hr lulz we already know moar than from my combined stash of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866343 pointlessly-murdered trees...
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
asciilifeform: ohai mod6
mod6: hai, how goes alf?
asciilifeform: mod6: slowly
mod6: werd
asciilifeform: mod6: goin' back to my very full ada plate
mod6: yeah, sounds like you've got a lot you wanna work on.
asciilifeform: mod6: that, + tall pile of saecular rubbish
mod6: asciilifeform: *nod*
asciilifeform: !#s from:|\n
asciilifeform: aah cr50 d00d
mircea_popescu: i certainly see the point re "explore the space" ; and yes a serpent implemented as both eulora workhorse and verilog is better studied than just former.
asciilifeform: !!up |\n
deedbot: |\n voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: i don't even think there's anything wrong whatsoever with studying the damned thing. my reservations were strictly around investing any kind of "this is te republic's encryptodisk" flag on it\
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i view block ciphertrons as a 'slightly better than nuffin' kind of tech -- would slightly rather lose a serpented disk to enemy than naked one; but that's about it
mircea_popescu: i'd rather hang the moron flattering himself with "enemy" that tried to lose me a disk than either of these.
mircea_popescu: |\n suppose you start by introducing yourself and showing the minimum awareness of republican process of using sane fucking pastebins.
asciilifeform: hang straight off the yardarm of dirigible, wainot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cuz it attracts crows.
asciilifeform: |\n: haven't seen, but if it actually worx, will be hilarious
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: linked item alleges that if one divides 0xa1a2a3a4 by 0xb1b2b3b4 on x86, triggers magic nsa hole.
|\n: not to mention that amount of such holes, of course if that works, is immense
asciilifeform: |\n: where'dja come across this, and for what chip is it alleged to work ?
|\n: on a local russian irc party
mircea_popescu: is this more of that romanian fellow's "magical usb stick aliens" ?
mircea_popescu: Firefox 50.0 32-bit on Linux << should be easy enough to test
asciilifeform: eh |\n it's a duck : apparent source is https://ecc2017.coreboot.org/uploads/talk/presentation/38/Microcode.pdf talk , and demands a pre-diddled, per the recipe, old amd k8/k10
mircea_popescu: !Qcalc 2828046480 / 3432026256
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: 0.824016563118
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: piltdown man
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, don't you remember this thing ? some dood went off deep end, that there's a cvasi-magical virus in his usb stick. cca 2015 vintage logs
asciilifeform: ( flip to last pg )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes i recall very well. this one is genuine, tho, but one half of a rigged academi-demo, requires ~their~ microcode patch
asciilifeform: rather than a wild thing.
asciilifeform: 'As explained in Section 7.2, we use ASM.JS code in Firefox 50 to trigger the implemented x86 div Trojan. It is shown in Listing 9.'
mircea_popescu: so basically this is a bug in asm.js ?
asciilifeform: nah, it's part of a 'if you could patch microcode, here's how you might trigger the bomb' stage magic demo.
asciilifeform: there's no 0day here.
asciilifeform: evidently sumbody passed it off to |\n as an 0day
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oFd2X/?raw=true << full text of the pdfturd, for the l0gz.
|\n: well not really, i'm not too much 0day-aware kind of person as well
asciilifeform: |\n: if it was shown to you as 'omfg exploit!111', you've been duped.
asciilifeform: the given coad does nuffin on an off-the-shelf chip. it was an example meant to work with supplied microcode patch.
mircea_popescu: of course, microcode patches happen in the wild, so it's not entirely meritless.
asciilifeform: theoretically the trigger for the ~actual~ boobytrap in x86 cpu would look very similar, yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not meritless, but not a weapon, toy store water gun, is the idea.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: needs diddled bios + the crown jewels of intel/amd, to diddle microcode (intel's is rsa'd, amd's simply obscure/undoc'd) , and if yer diddling bios can make much simpler trap. but yes, would work
asciilifeform: i saw |\n's snippet and thought 'loox familiar' and sure enuff it was in that 2017 piece.
asciilifeform: |\n get yourself a key already and reg with deedbot
a111: Logged on 2018-10-27 18:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, don't you remember this thing ? some dood went off deep end, that there's a cvasi-magical virus in his usb stick. cca 2015 vintage logs
asciilifeform: famous lulgem
asciilifeform: observe that the gag vanished without a trace.
mircea_popescu: you know ?
mircea_popescu: shit-at-wall strategy.
asciilifeform: it went to where all cheap psyops lulz go when they die.
asciilifeform: sorta like the usual 'hey i found nessie' 'wouldja like to borrow my diving gear and thermal cam?' 'mmm nessie is invisible to thermal cam and what's a diving mask' '...'
asciilifeform: in today's variation, 'hey i found a dead mermaid' 'um, this is a bloated dolphin carcass' '...'
asciilifeform bbl:meat
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's a q : how feasible/costly would it be to have an array of tiny switches ? say 32x8 ?
mircea_popescu: bring back ye olde switch-bootloading!!!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what sorta switches are you thinking of ? if it's ye olde DIPs, nobody cancelled'em, they're maybe a dime for a block of 8, and look today exactly as you remember then from yer 286
asciilifeform: or are we talking spring-loaded thingies for reading punched card, or wat.
asciilifeform: archaetypical example, say, https://archive.is/0IRmv photo
asciilifeform: i'll point out that nobody ever booted from '32x8 block' tho, if you recall folx booted from 8 (or 9 or whatever your byte bitness) + 'forward' button, word-at-a-time
asciilifeform: flipping massive grid with fingers is a bitch
asciilifeform: on subj : https://archive.is/7ILm0 << notbad illustration of how pdp was booted.
asciilifeform: ( the classic pdp-8, that is )
asciilifeform: actually scrach that, it's a terrible illustration. but i dun have a good one handy.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it's for cipher keys -- imho terrible idea to have ~all~ the key bits as physical switched in parallel, third party has no biznis being able to see the key simply by getting a peek at a keyed box with eyes
asciilifeform: *switches in
asciilifeform: ( you also wanna be able to unkey a box at a second's notice, and that aint happening with parallel key-as-switches, either )
asciilifeform: it's why usg lost its precious keyz when bestkorea took famous ship 'pueblo'
asciilifeform: ( iirc the prescribed key-wipe mechanism was a brick of dynamite, and the crew decided it wanted to live a bit moar )
deedbot: http://bingology.net/2018/10/27/peso-watch-october-2018-edition/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog - Peso Watch October 2018 Edition
mod6: !!ledger
mod6: !!sent-invoices
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2627 << Loper OS - Serpent in ICE40, Part 2.
mircea_popescu: alf is evidently having fun.
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