Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2016-02-01 | 2016-02-03 →
mircea_popescu: + strError += strprintf("tx requires a tx fee of at" << this is logging exempt ?
thestringpuller: printf is da best way to debug!
mircea_popescu: so basically polarbeard here's the thing : i considered signing this, and i will consider signing the next version. as it is however i won't do that, because a) not all errors have both flags set ; b) occasional ' in error message ; c) occasional losing a valuable datapoint (such as the hash above) or missing on adding a useful one (nStart).
mircea_popescu: as annoying as b c etc might be they're mostly minor and could be fixed by a further patch. a however is a killer, and colors both b and c in similar tones, because it betrays the fundamental problem with this patch : it doesn't flow from a structured approach given in depth consideration, but merely from your desire to help and impressive stamina.
mircea_popescu: these are both very nice things, and the good news is that it's much easier for you to become very useful than it is for alf to grow another arm. so don't take this as a censure per se. does all that make sense ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64400 @ 0.00055607 = 35.8109 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61585 @ 0.00056669 = 34.8996 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98172 @ 0.00056706 = 55.6694 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: In derplandia: Cruz 28% Trump 24% Rubio 23%
mircea_popescu: no way, someone is ahead of trump ?!
mircea_popescu: how did that happen
BingoBoingo: Or in the numbers that matter: Convention Delegates > 6 to Cruz 5 each to Trump and Rubio, one to Carson
BingoBoingo: Blizzard in Iowa today
BingoBoingo: Trump lost to Bible belt guy and tied Establishment guy
BingoBoingo: Trump was always just Manistream media noise and some derps online
BingoBoingo: But Blizzard keeping Trumpets at home likely played a part
mircea_popescu: so he's going away huh ?
mircea_popescu: mommentum player, has little to offer other than "nobody can beat me for i'm the king rarara"
BingoBoingo: He's going to continue kicking and screaming consistently drawing 25%-30% until he quits in May or August
BingoBoingo: Momentum player, media likes he because they are mostly Democrats
BingoBoingo: But if Trump keeps drawing that large a chunk while Cruz and Rubio fight it out a Brokered convention is still possible.
BingoBoingo: Then again in 2012 Santorum won Iowa.
mircea_popescu: cruz has ~0 chances of being president.
BingoBoingo: Prolly going to be Bernie
mircea_popescu: is this the black doctor guy ?
BingoBoingo: Bernie's the Vermont socialist
BingoBoingo: He's going to pull the Obama on Clitler again
BingoBoingo: And moar Mormom insurrections in the west are likely
BingoBoingo: ATM Sanders and Clinton are nearly tied in Iowa and could take a while to sort out that contest
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29843 @ 0.0005637 = 16.8225 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: "@HillaryClinton Shouldn't you be in jail for #WhiteWater" << My daily dose of social media trolling
assbot: US ‘make rape legal’ group plans worldwide anti-woman event in 43 countries ... ( )
BingoBoingo: Anyways, Trumps future is as a sort of Alternative Pat Buchanan
BingoBoingo: Anyways I have still not seen any reason to hedge by BitBet on Rubio winning the nomination.
adlai: shouldn't somebody who understands parimutuel betting better than the average bitbettor make nearly risk-free profit if the outcomes add up to "over 100%"?
adlai doesn't even understand enough probability theory to phrase question properly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50000 @ 0.00056573 = 28.2865 BTC [+]
adlai: s/average/below-$1/ might be more accurate
BingoBoingo: There's always risk
adlai: on further thought, the risk of doing this on bitbet is that "late leeches" will squeeze out your profits from the bets that should have covered your losses
adlai: fight leeches with leeching; maybe reserving some capital for post-leech correction mitigates this
mats: i'm looking for something either on trilema or the logs, about advertising fraud
mats: anybody know what i'm talking about here?
adlai: !s facebook
assbot: 936 results for 'facebook' :
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29600 @ 0.00056573 = 16.7456 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36650 @ 0.00056522 = 20.7153 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: asciilifeform: hey, ok posted those two to the mailing list:
assbot: [BTC-dev] Programmable Version String - Integrated Fix ... ( )
assbot: [BTC-dev] Regrind of malleus_mikehearnificarum vpatch ... ( )
mod6: give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror.
mod6: thanks in advance!
mats: also looking for the discussion re: credit, not barter, being 'invented' first
punkman: mats, was it szabo's "The Origins of Money" perhaps?
mats: I haven't read this paper yet, so I may be recalling a discussion of it
punkman: "Debt: the first 5000 years" also discusses that point iirc
assbot: Alphabet Becomes The Most Valuable Public Company In The World | TechCrunch ... ( )
punkman: "coming in at a market cap $558 billion after jumping about 8% after the company reported its fourth-quarter earnings, and passing Apple, which sits at a market cap of $535 billion."
mats: thanks punkman
assbot: Patience Diff Advantages - Bram Cohen's Journal ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00056596 = 6.6217 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00056362 = 11.6669 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00056497 = 1.8644 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: hut8labs/diffscuss: Code reviews. In plain... - GitHub ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 04:41:22; mircea_popescu: polarbeard + return error(SBLK "chain tip %s not found in the block index", hashBestChain.ToString().c_str()); << any reason this has only one flag ?
assbot: polarbeard_better_log_messages ... ( )
polarbeard: << I don't see how single quotes are a problem in practice, what valuable datapoints?
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 05:08:04; mircea_popescu: so basically polarbeard here's the thing : i considered signing this, and i will consider signing the next version. as it is however i won't do that, because a) not all errors have both flags set ; b) occasional ' in error message ; c) occasional losing a valuable datapoint (such as the hash above) or missing on adding a useful one (nStart).
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14317 @ 0.00056482 = 8.0865 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Linux Kernel Library [] ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11630 @ 0.00056978 = 6.6265 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00056733 = 5.106 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5630 @ 0.00056982 = 3.2081 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00056582 = 6.9596 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: mats: That was a disappointment. I was hoping to see someone store linux kernel as dead tree on shelves
BingoBoingo: !up AaronvanW
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00056036 = 5.2674 BTC [-] {5}
BingoBoingo: !up Nicknaem
Nicknaem: i actually have nothing to say atm, was just checking out the channel :)
Nicknaem: Greatly enjoyed some of the pieces on trilema, just wanted to see whats going on here
BingoBoingo: Just poke someone if you'd like to talk once this voicing expires
Nicknaem: sure thx
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00056915 = 12.8059 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00056166 = 9.0989 BTC [-] {2}
polarbeard: PeterL: a getpeerinfo backport patch for trb:
assbot: polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch · GitHub ... ( )
punkman: polarbeard: not bad, which version did you backport from?
assbot: RPC: add 'getpeerinfo', returning easy-to-retrieve per-CNode data · bitcoin/bitcoin@1006f07 · GitHub ... ( )
assbot: Suggestion: Marking of commits that fix vulnerabilities · Issue #7456 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00056166 = 4.2967 BTC [-]
assbot: Pull Requests · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00056166 = 2.4713 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18860 @ 0.00055872 = 10.5375 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9549 @ 0.0005563 = 5.3121 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00055824 = 1.6189 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.0005563 = 3.8385 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11826 @ 0.0005563 = 6.5788 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.0005563 = 6.5365 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 << these look ok, i will test and sign when i get a chance
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 06:22:46; mod6: give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Bitcoin Isn't Dead—But It Is Threatened by Tech Infighting - ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35100 @ 0.0005563 = 19.5261 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform votes a straight vermin supreme ticket
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ;;later tell mod6 << these look ok, i will test and sign when i get a chance << cool, thx!
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 06:22:46; mod6: give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59000 @ 0.0005563 = 32.8217 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Is there any other way to vote that doesn't involve doodling horsecocks on the ballot?
BingoBoingo: In other news, the crap weather that lifted Rubio to a third place victory in Iowa has made it here. At least it's too warm to freeze here... so far...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00056158 = 9.94 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00056447 = 2.9352 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: !up hdbuck
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 373.72, vol: 6176.05880644 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 377.592, vol: 5769.2799 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 372.17, vol: 15590.4673899 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 379.99, vol: 2.33567734 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 380.0912, vol: 30229.46150000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 375.56008, vol: 389.01040813 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 376.9125, vol: 55.11831967 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 377.012769104
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 396310 | Current Difficulty: 1.2003334065123697E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 397151 | Next Difficulty In: 841 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 0 hours, 51 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: << yes, just as soon as that someone either a) gets out of childhood by putting some scratch together or b) gets out of senility by understanding which side the future's buttered on.
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 05:50:41; adlai: shouldn't somebody who understands parimutuel betting better than the average bitbettor make nearly risk-free profit if the outcomes add up to "over 100%"?
mircea_popescu: as the ancient rule says, "people will do the sane thing just as soon as all alternatives have been exhausted".
BingoBoingo: Well, first they gotta make a Jim Crow Grand Lightning Network on top of BitBetBet results.
mircea_popescu: << there's mathematical reasons you always derive a benefit from an odds differential.
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 05:58:13; adlai: fight leeches with leeching; maybe reserving some capital for post-leech correction mitigates this
assbot: How to cancel your BitBet bet. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 06:09:12; mats: i'm looking for something either on trilema or the logs, about advertising fraud
assbot: Advertising on DigitalPoint on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
assbot: You know what gets no airplay ? Unflattering truth. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
assbot: MiniGame (S.MG), June 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo totally that lol.
PeterL: for all the media trumpets who gets the "WIN!!" in each state, many of the primaries are not winner-take-all, so multiple candidates come away with delegates from each state
PeterL: so with iowa delegates getting split between candidates, it really did not change the election at all
BingoBoingo: PeterL yes. Hilary ended up turning a vote tie into a 6 delegate advantage late last night on... COIN FLIPS
PeterL: maybe we should make it easier and skip the voting and go straight to a coin flip to decide the presidency?
mircea_popescu: i would expect there's a lot of power brokering going on there.
mircea_popescu: all those nobodies on capitol hill gotta derive their delusions of relevancy somehow.
BingoBoingo: It's amazing 6 delegates were decided by coin flip and every coin flip was resolved in CLitler's favor
PeterL: but Hillary has been "waiting her turn", so the party bosses are trying to get her in despite her being a horrible monster
PeterL: not that Sanders is much better of a candidate
mircea_popescu: ftr, i may be the only one left, but i don't think she's anything of a monster.
PeterL: depends on who you ask, I guess
PeterL: I certainly don't trust her
mircea_popescu: the woman is intelligent and determined. certainly a lot less stupid than it is average for the us. she's no bush nor any kind of redditobama.
mircea_popescu: PeterL you're not supposed to trust your ruler. you're supposed to feel threatened by them, i guess, or fear them, if you don't have a readier way to express submission in your own mind.
PeterL: I know she's smart, but I don't expect her presidency to help me any
mircea_popescu: people not trusting politico actually makes for one of the best recommendations they could have.
mircea_popescu: in what sense help you ?
BingoBoingo: <PeterL> but Hillary has been "waiting her turn", so the party bosses are trying to get her in despite her being a horrible monster << THis is how the GOP sank in 2008 with the lich, and 2012 with Rommit
PeterL: at least Sanders is honest about what he is going to do
mircea_popescu: which is ~nothing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00056447 = 1.383 BTC [+]
PeterL: well, some candidates (Paul) might get in my way/wreck the country less than others
mircea_popescu: the country is terminal tho. it's falling over on its own anyway.
PeterL: but I figure some candidates are going to make it worse than others, and I think Clinton would be one of the worst
mircea_popescu: anyway. in my detached view, this presidency is important for purely exterior reasons. the us, as it is, is irrelevant to everyone, including itself. the future of the us is mostly determined by the management of the image of the us, which is well divorced from the us of today, and a sort of future tendril of the us of 1970.
BingoBoingo: I endorse parting the thing out and starting over.
mircea_popescu: there will come a major pass with china, probably in the next five years.
mircea_popescu: on the basis of how the american handles himself there, the immediate future is decided.
mircea_popescu: for that task, she's probably the best hope.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo under foreign management ?
PeterL: Split it up by state? Let each state decide where they want to go?
PeterL: Or dissolve all the states and start over from scratch?
mircea_popescu: this is the one bit us folk are too blinded by their own internal narcissus to grasp. you don't get to retry on your own as a failed state. you get put under the management of your neighbours, because you suck. it happened to the indian tribes in the same geography before, and they were extinctified by it.
mircea_popescu: PeterL neither of those are options. a russian oregon alaska and washington, a chinese california, a mexican arizona nm and texas and a european protectorate all the way to ohio is much more likely
mircea_popescu: than americans themselves having any say whatsoever in who gets to fuck their ass for the next ~century.
PeterL: Can we sell ourselves to Canada?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Under foreign management, under the Bundy's, however
mircea_popescu: no. canada becomes part of the split, goes to russia.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sadly, the alf totally dominates that field. the bundy's dun have what it takes. not even remotely.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah, but mebbe the inspire the kid that did. 4 people left in Free Oregon lead by kid named Fry. Fry seems like he's staying a while since FBI killed his friend.
mircea_popescu: four people and their dog aren't part of this discussion.
BingoBoingo: Not yet.
BingoBoingo: Anyways. The point is the Bundy fumbling has to happen for militia movement to develop which isn't 75% USG informant by weight.
mircea_popescu: not even the usg itself is 75% usg by weight by now.
mircea_popescu: just count the indians for a lul.
mircea_popescu: or you think bhagwan chowdhry & the merry bunch actually have some sort of loyalty, or even any sort of conception of "US" ?
mircea_popescu: the maggot language doesn't have a word for "corpse", and certainly not one for the corpse's ex-marital status.
BingoBoingo: I don't know that the Indian bureaucrats like Preet can think any other way.
BingoBoingo: But the point is the Shaun Bridges have to stop falling for the trap where they reveal their Gobag&fortune to loyalists.
mircea_popescu: yeah, which will happen five minutes after the usg stops hiring idiots, which will happen half hour after anyone who's not an idiot stops exclusively dedicating himself to the republic, which happens after i'm fucking dead, i should hope.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8750 @ 0.00056519 = 4.9454 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: !up ahmedbodi
assbot: dpaste: 20D5709 ... ( )
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dood dat ass!
BingoBoingo: Olympian ass!
mircea_popescu: trinque so not with the intent to pressure you, but : is deedbot patch insertion likely to come online soon or should i re-learn how to do it via email ?
BingoBoingo: Ah, monthly report deed finally posted, ty trinque
BingoBoingo: Fuck I wrote December instead of January in the first line
assbot: Qntra (S.QNTR) January 2016 Report | Qntra ... ( )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
BingoBoingo: But in the positive side, 20 more posts than December while wordcount stayed rather steady.
BingoBoingo: On downside fucking old backup restorating clusterfuck induced error in December
mod6 looks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00056227 = 1.0683 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: we're about to get some snow. not as bad as IA tho.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00056829 = 9.5189 BTC [+] {3}
PeterL: ;;seen dignork
gribble: dignork was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 28 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 51 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <dignork> Genius -
PeterL: ;;seen artifexd
gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 40 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 19 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.
PeterL: ;;seen diametric
gribble: diametric was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 15 hours, 41 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <diametric> not sure that makes it a trivial non-crime at that point.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19250 @ 0.00055565 = 10.6963 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ok so does anyone have a ready link or fresh context in head re that discussion recently (~month) of that british game publisher that went under with 20mn investment ?
mircea_popescu: one of the founders was arguing it shouldn't get govt support, just let it die
deedbot-: [Qntra] Turmoil Lead To Mizzou Credit Outlook Downgrade -
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22772 @ 0.00056982 = 12.9759 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4885 @ 0.00057044 = 2.7866 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17150 @ 0.00057044 = 9.783 BTC [+]
assbot: polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch · GitHub ... ( )
assbot: polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc ... ( )
assbot: [BTC-dev] Programmable Version String - Integrated Fix ... ( )
assbot: [BTC-dev] Regrind of malleus_mikehearnificarum vpatch ... ( )
assbot: programmable-versionstring ... ( )
assbot: malleus_mikehearnificarum ... ( )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
mod6: phf: neat!
dignork: PeterL: I'm lurking
phf: i'm just doing manual labour until i get an uploader of some sort
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 4.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 -
phf: fwiw the graph is still not quite right, i.e. shows presses that couldn't happen.
mircea_popescu: excuse the naive approach, but isn't that sort of thing precisely what lisp is supposed to by its nature prevent ?
PeterL: you mean lisp is less magical than they say?
phf: nah, my graph theory is rusty, and figuring out the right algo is a slow mind grinding process
mircea_popescu: if you're going to get an endless slog of obscure bugs that came from nowhere and aren't apparently anything, why not just use something that actually has libraries ?
mircea_popescu: PeterL hey, i'm a dialectician over here :D
phf: there's no library substitute for thinking. the "bug" is not obscure, it's just not implemented right :>
BingoBoingo: libraries don't help make the graph theory learning faster
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that is EXACTLY what they help.
mircea_popescu: the role of libraries is exactly like the role of the fridge in the supermarket : "here's this capsule of other people's thinking so you don't have to"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That was a library.
mircea_popescu: which is how the entire world (except brazil) enjoys the benefits of refrigeration, even as there's maybe a guy in a thousand people that could explain how it actually works.
BingoBoingo: Library now means Ycombinator floaty arm things
BingoBoingo: !Up ascii_butugychag
deedbot-: [Trilema] MiniGame (S.MG), January 2016 Statement -
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 13:59:52; mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sadly, the alf totally dominates that field. the bundy's dun have what it takes. not even remotely.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00056892 = 8.9605 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: hey, i don't deny a man his right.
ascii_butugychag: << the indians have the standard, entirely ordinary loyalty of the rest of usg, but hypertrophied: loyalty to the hand that feeds, supplies nice condo, fat retirement, princeyaletonward for the kidz
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 14:03:19; mircea_popescu: or you think bhagwan chowdhry & the merry bunch actually have some sort of loyalty, or even any sort of conception of "US" ?
mircea_popescu: more complicated.
mircea_popescu: for instance, another hand would feed them if they went nude dancing. they don't.
mircea_popescu: yet another if they went oil rigging. they don't.
mircea_popescu: they have a very narrow cage through which they might be fed.
ascii_butugychag: the activities listed above are a) actual work, that involves not sitting in a climate-controlled chair all day b) really needs having been raised 'free range' chicken instead of cage-born
ascii_butugychag: do you recall the photo of a very peculiar boar that kakobrekla once posted ?
mircea_popescu: but nevertheless. it's not merely the hand that feeds.
ascii_butugychag: the one who was so fat that he could not even see
mircea_popescu: it's the hand that can be arsed to make it through the mental cage.
ascii_butugychag: picture wild boar paying him a visit, 'let's go for acorns??'
ascii_butugychag: << ahahahahaha l0l this would be true if computing were an actually adult field, like refrigeration
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 15:19:04; mircea_popescu: the role of libraries is exactly like the role of the fridge in the supermarket : "here's this capsule of other people's thinking so you don't have to"
ascii_butugychag: as it is, 'here is a capsule of other people's shit'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19032 @ 0.00056752 = 10.801 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: << I have time this weekend to give it a look. What's the spec here?
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 14:14:45; mircea_popescu: trinque so not with the intent to pressure you, but : is deedbot patch insertion likely to come online soon or should i re-learn how to do it via email ?
ascii_butugychag: one must apprehend the ~systemic~ braindamage:
ascii_butugychag: picture if somehow the phlogiston theory had, by way of sheer accident, resulted in the building of a sorta-working refrigerator.
ascii_butugychag: which then went into mass production.
ascii_butugychag: phlogiston/caloric, rather
PeterL: << I seem to be getting alot of these error messages, should I be concerned (connected to Dulap)?
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: bastard tx
PeterL: why is your node sending me bastard txen?
ascii_butugychag: from your node's pov
ascii_butugychag: you don't yet have the block they rely on
PeterL: aha
mircea_popescu: trinque i dunno, jurov was saying something about email, but that seems silly. just allow the import of files and piss them out as a json i guess ?
ascii_butugychag: dulap - did
ascii_butugychag: why this situation can persist for more than a few seconds, is a question to be asked of shitoshi
trinque: meanwhile trb node at 393k, today is the day...
mircea_popescu: hey jurov phf ascii_butugychag everyone else with an interest : let's get a format for bot-ml-etc interoperability ?
ascii_butugychag: how about !patch PATCH.vpatch SIG.somebody.sig
jurov: deedbot?
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 15:40:34; trinque: << btcd's new thing, stops syncing entirely until restarted
trinque: TODAY
trinque: his death comes today
trinque: jurov proposed that deedbot- start taking detached sigs the other day
trinque: ascii_butugychag: in that form
mircea_popescu: jurov well it's already here, already takes dpastes, not so bad no ?
ascii_butugychag: did we ever figure out how to dpaste without mutilation ?
trinque: does ben_vulpes' mutilate ?
PeterL: did we decide if wotpaste fixes the mutilation issue?
trinque: could get the thing a shorter domain
phf: issue was with html input boxes adding #\newline#\return
PeterL: and could the raw be default?
phf: i think cascadian solution was to strip #\return on incoming posts?
phf: but curl works reliably on any of the posting services. or anyway anything that can do an http post without fucking up the payload
jurov: mircea_popescu: i wait for deedbot to accept files and *detached signatures*, no dpaste braindamage
mircea_popescu: jurov respectfully an' all that, but : didn't we test dpaste and it came out that it mangled nothing ?
jurov: i was not aware of these tests. and what if some day it will?
assbot: Logged on 26-12-2015 05:30:02; phf: (drakma:http-request (concatenate 'string (cdr (assoc :location (nth-value 2 (drakma:http-request "" :method :post :parameters `(("content" . ,(concatenate 'string "foo" '(#\Newline) "bar"))))))) ".txt") :force-binary t)
mircea_popescu: jurov that's a problem yeah
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: so there's a proggy i've been testin'
ascii_butugychag: not fit for battlefield yet
ascii_butugychag: and not sure if this is even The Right Thing
ascii_butugychag: you ask for a pgptronic random turd, a la assbot, it gets enciphered to your pubkey (if you are in l1)
ascii_butugychag: this gets fed into a small proggy on your box, which now knows where to connect, and what the symmetric cipher key is
ascii_butugychag: the latter enciphers a plain tcp tunnel.
ascii_butugychag: on other side is the same thing, started for just one session, with same key
ascii_butugychag: and on the other side of that, e.g., anon ftp.
mircea_popescu: so like minigossip
ascii_butugychag: draft name, 'g'
BingoBoingo: interesting
ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes wanted some warez, and i realized that we haven't the most elementary provisions for warez
ascii_butugychag: and dusted this ancient thing off
ascii_butugychag: but not quite ready to fire in anger yet, this is a world-exposed sorta thing and needs to be 'measure 777 times, cut once'
ascii_butugychag: but i wanted to put this basic summary here, in case i get flattened by a bus or whatnot tonight.
ascii_butugychag: anybody got a favourite symmetric cipher, incidentally ?
mircea_popescu: cramer shoup!
ascii_butugychag: symmetric plox
jurov: rot13
mircea_popescu: you know, it's just like you that you'd ask about the one hole.
mircea_popescu: there's no good symmetric cypher.
ascii_butugychag: but so many perfectly decent bad ones! l0l
ascii_butugychag specializes in 'the one hole', aha
ascii_butugychag: btw how come nobody uses blum-blum-shub, which provably reduces to quadratic residuosity hardness, as a block cipher ?
mircea_popescu: expensive, wasn't it ?
ascii_butugychag: possibly this, but possibly the proof is dodgy
ascii_butugychag: iirc it has some fine points
mircea_popescu: this is actually a good call for wisdoms. what's the #b-a symmetric cypher ?
mircea_popescu: beats nist certification. speak up.
assbot: Blum Blum Shub vs. AES-CTR or other CSPRNGs - Cryptography Stack Exchange ... ( )
ascii_butugychag: 'it's slow and there are boojums and didja know it's slow??...'
assbot: Blum–Goldwasser cryptosystem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
assbot: [Cryptography] Dual_EC_DRBG backdoor: a proof of concept ... ( )
ascii_butugychag: 'pushes the problem down to your rng' which 'of course' can never work
mircea_popescu: well... can it ?
ascii_butugychag: ... because the pope said, or somesuch
mircea_popescu pounds down on his empty cardano box
ascii_butugychag: l0l mircea_popescu has the rng! could be swimming in rngola
mircea_popescu: NO! because reasons!
ascii_butugychag: !s jon callas
assbot: 2 results for 'jon callas' :
assbot: Logged on 01-04-2015 21:20:02; *: ascii_field listened (in car) to an infuriatingly zimmermanish interview with jon callas (former pgp, now 'silent circle' garbage)
mircea_popescu: ""Many people who haven't thought it through have sung its praises over the years, mostly because they got seduced by the sound theoretic basis. Blum-Blum-Shub has two of the three flaws that DUAL_EC_DRBG has: it's slow, and you can't prove it secure.
mircea_popescu: ahaha what is this inept bullshit ?
ascii_butugychag: 'Jon Callas Former CTO of PGP Now CTO Silent Circle'
mircea_popescu: THOSE are "the flaws" plural of nsa-back\door ?
ascii_butugychag: whole turd worth reading, but for pro entomologists strictly !
ascii_butugychag: i now strongly suspect that blumblumshub can be proven to equal rsa in hardness
ascii_butugychag: BUT i do not know this proof, and it is not public.
ascii_butugychag: what we are seeing in callas and the shitoverflow derp is akin to the horizon of black hole
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag incidentally, if you'll excuse the naive approach : couldn't in principle any p-and-q scheme be made to have a mutating p-and-q ?
mircea_popescu: let me express this better.
ascii_butugychag: we cannot see the dense matter at the center, but can see the derpwalls around
mircea_popescu: isn't any "rsa-like" symmetric cypher basically an immature or partial implementation of
mircea_popescu: well... hm.
mircea_popescu: i dunno what i want here. nm.
ascii_butugychag: (i must mention, for completeness, that derpwall could have an opposite purpose, of preventing inquiriy into the ~weakness~ of b-b-s when used as prng, as it is in many systems incl. iirc, certain versions of winblowz)
ascii_butugychag: it is interesting, to me, how the derpwall of 'don't go there! dragons!' always has quite the same appearance, from a mile away
mircea_popescu: "This is interesting because nowhere do they address the central engineering issue -- that a fixed p,q is not secure yet a variable one requires another RNG to seed the RNG." << except the part where a prng IS NOT A RNG
mircea_popescu: such thick.
ascii_butugychag: like the standard fortifications around usg pissholes
ascii_butugychag: this isn't 'thick', it is cheap confabulation and obfuscation
mircea_popescu: remidn me, do p and q have to be primes or relatively prime in bss ?
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: if they aren't prime, you're using multiprime rsa and if your smallest prime is small, you get, e.g., pollard-rho'd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5259 @ 0.0005679 = 2.9866 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: the quadratic residuity issue makes me think fermat primes should be somewhere involved in all this
ascii_butugychag: i always found it interesting that, after all of the $maxint spent on both sides of the ocean on symmetric crypto (see maslennikov's b00k, from the l0gz, say) we have - publicly - no more provably-hard symmetric crypto than a hundred years ago
mircea_popescu: what happens say if q is a primitive root modulo p ?
ascii_butugychag: that is, vernam (otp) and that's IT
mircea_popescu: the problem is not necessarily tractable!
ascii_butugychag: didn't say it were.
ascii_butugychag: just that none of the results, positive or negative, leaked out.
ascii_butugychag: (to where i could find'em)
ascii_butugychag: this'd be a neato use for mircea_popescu's network of little birds, incidentally
mircea_popescu: a one ounce bird can not carry a two pound coconut!
ascii_butugychag: can carry the smell.
mircea_popescu: if coconuts smelled ...
ascii_butugychag: and the one-bit, 'i saw a coconut'
ascii_butugychag: like noah's pigeon.
mircea_popescu: it'd be easier for it to carry one than to see one.
mircea_popescu: don't get me wrong, your point is well taken. just...
ascii_butugychag: << obligatory oldie, from my www; i will note that most of the proprietary ciphers are known to be symmetric.
assbot: Loper OS » A Country of Which Nothing is Known but the Name. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: also known to not work, by and large.
ascii_butugychag: if mircea_popescu knows this, he oughta share
ascii_butugychag: because nobody else (at least not humans) does.
mircea_popescu: what am i to share, a scent ?
ascii_butugychag: sure why not
mircea_popescu: i shared it like three times to date when this thread came up!
mircea_popescu: you're always "wake me up when there's steak"
ascii_butugychag: btw if you read that article, my hypothesis was that the usg ciphers are specially built to fail in a particular way.
mircea_popescu: i recall us discussing old soviet machines re that also
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21013 @ 0.00056744 = 11.9236 BTC [-] {3}
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: maslennikov actually discusses at great length why 'GOST' cipher, which is a cruddy knockoff of DES, was adopted
ascii_butugychag: he claims that it was disinfo.
ascii_butugychag: to 'guard the precious su proprietary cipherz'
ascii_butugychag: the latter, he explains, sank with the rest of atlantis
mircea_popescu: you know why fat women on okcupid aren't getting laid ?
ascii_butugychag: guard their precious eggs, aha
mircea_popescu: they're guarding their precious proprietary meat curtains. for what ? FOR A GUY THAT DESERVES THEM DAMNIT
mircea_popescu: same place the us is keeping its real economy!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.0005691 = 2.0488 BTC [+] {3}
ascii_butugychag: my suspicion is that neither side has a block or stream cipher of provable hardness
ascii_butugychag: (cipher in the non-otp sense)
mircea_popescu: "the proof of hardness is at the point of a spear"
mircea_popescu: neither side of the 3-4 sides involved EVEN COMPREHENDS what that'd be, let alone why they'd want it.
mircea_popescu: and the most exposed of the lot (the islamists) show quite clearly how it works.
ascii_butugychag: it isn't a difficult concept
mircea_popescu: to imagine the indian-us is any different is laughable.
ascii_butugychag: nsa complex is not indian - yet
mircea_popescu: to this fucking day "security" in the us is "he knew your mother's maiden name so clearly he was you" "what if my mother was a whore ?"
ascii_butugychag: (has bizarre schutzstaffel-esque aryan thing going)
ascii_butugychag: that's pleeb seek000rity
mircea_popescu: that "bizarre schutzstaffel-esque aryan thing going" is the VERY DEFINITION of indian
mircea_popescu: what did you think indian meant, "smells of cardamom" ?
mircea_popescu: there's a reason the nazis were regarded as barely better than the russians back in the day.
mircea_popescu: certainly a step back for germany.
ascii_butugychag: anyway what i meant was, they have a pedigreed white meat thing going
ascii_butugychag: since the beginning
ascii_butugychag: see, e.g., snowden
mircea_popescu: when they start with "don't say nigger to be civilised and don't go topless to go to heaven", they took a step back. which means a step east. they're less greek and more indian.
mircea_popescu: no i know what you meant. it is SPECIFICALLY inferior in this specific manner we call "indian".
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: i tend to associate this with old brit and ru empires, officers with purchased commissions, imbecilic commanders, 'blue blood.'
ascii_butugychag: cia as per ~its own~ official histories admits being an org made of 'second sons'
ascii_butugychag: (of commercial aristos, who did not have quite enough to bequeath to each son)
mircea_popescu: officers with purchased commissions is not in any sense a bad idea ~per se~. would you be lead by some schmuck fresh out of west point or by some dude who made and spent 10k btc to lead you ?
ascii_butugychag: the 10k are more likely to belong to buterin
mircea_popescu: i'll take my chances with the dude who spent actual money to get there.
ascii_butugychag: than to anybody who 'made'
mircea_popescu: which is the problem here. purchased comissions are not the problem - fake money is.
ascii_butugychag: buterin has (had?) a trunk of perfectly genuine money.
mircea_popescu: west point hasn't had a worthy officer come out of it since before you were born.
mircea_popescu: chances are chances.
ascii_butugychag: i thought mircea_popescu taught us that they quit making worthy officers some time around 1800
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the whole caste bullshit is specifically indian. it is a cheap and simple solution to "what to do when confronted with multitudes and unwilling to think"
mircea_popescu: which is why it fits so well to the needs and capacities of the us today.
ascii_butugychag: anyway the funniest thing is that nobody cancelled purchased commissions, and other simonies - they are simply brokered through the credential racketeers now
ascii_butugychag: (e.g., harvard tuition is what, exactly.)
mircea_popescu: they CAN NOT be cancelled.
mircea_popescu: you don't get to soft fork things.
ascii_butugychag: !s buluceala
assbot: 6 results for 'buluceala' :
mircea_popescu: pretty much.
mircea_popescu: anyway : there was a short time in the history of europe (and therefore the world) where the masses figured that they're in power and since they didn't know what else to do, decided to promote entertainers to leadership positions.
mircea_popescu: which is how hitler ended up stuck moving divisions on a map
mircea_popescu: the tragedy of the austrian painter being that the fucking divisions were wholy imaginary throughout his tenure
mircea_popescu: that actual items moved in seeming lockstep with this for a while is not really germane.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: so wordpress is retarded.
mircea_popescu: the folly of purchasing one's commission with song, dance and merriment should be plainly apparent by now.
thestringpuller: theme-editor is all "You don't have permissions
mircea_popescu: i dunno what that is.
thestringpuller: I su into the user that php is running from edit the file
thestringpuller: and it's like "Yup I can do this"
thestringpuller: but when you do php f_open It's all "file can't be opened for writing permission denied"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00056645 = 3.0022 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: shiva did expose a defect in v99996 of V (line 420), in one of the graphing subroutines (add_desc_src_files). the rest is fine. locally added simple conditinal check to see if the node is empty seems to have fixed it.
ascii_butugychag: shiva, or tinyscheme-genesis ?
mod6: here's a screenshot of the graph after the fix was applied (locally):
mod6: i don't have tinyscheme-genesis in my patches dir. just shiva 1_of_2 and shiva 2_of_2 + the shiva fix.
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: mod6: ok now i see
ascii_butugychag: btw, educational exercise for anybody interested in shiva: diff ~the vpatches~ shiva-part-1 and the tinyscheme-genesis aggregate.
ascii_butugychag: you should get a diff consisting solely of pathnames.
ascii_butugychag: this, if you will, is a 'bridge' meta-patch.
ascii_butugychag: i did not sign it, because we have no mechanical provisions for processing such a thing, nor is it a long-term goal
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00056643 = 10.3657 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18139 @ 0.0005703 = 10.3447 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: << >> Although God has in the past placed women in authority over men (e.g. Judges 4:4), and even today the Lord places women in authority over men (e.g. Romans 13:1), this is nonetheless a shameful reality, as Isaiah illustrates. (Isaiah 3:12)
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 13:53:49; PeterL: I know she's smart, but I don't expect her presidency to help me any
assbot: A True Church - Scriptural View Of Women ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 13:16:03; *: asciilifeform votes a straight vermin supreme ticket
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00055632 = 10.0138 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: roger
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26995 @ 0.00056009 = 15.1196 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: << now this, i will review. thank you, polarbeard
assbot: polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5499 @ 0.00057043 = 3.1368 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4039 @ 0.00056066 = 2.2645 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: so, was anything worked out yet between turdatron and deedbot?
jurov: or should i figure how to shoehorn .vpatch+ .vpatch.sig to dpaste?
jurov: or alf definitely proclaimed turdatron obsolete?
jurov: trinque ascii_butugychag mod6 ^
jurov: !up ascii_butugychag
jurov: !up ascii_butugychag
deedbot-: imported: 260FA57BCE677A5C04BF60BA4A75883CC1B1D34C
ben_vulpes: << not on receipt afaik, only returns \n for \r and \r\n
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 15:43:52; trinque: does ben_vulpes' mutilate ?
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 15:56:39; ascii_butugychag: draft name, 'g'
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell adlai is this in reference to the tweet referencing a blog post referencing a reddit thinger?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.25000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination -
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 18:01:26; danielpbarron: << I met the guy at both PaulFest and PorcFest (pictured )
assbot: CipherLoc Corporation Announces Today That Cipher Block Chaining Mode Has Been Broken With Results Presented at DEFCON Conference Other OTC:CLOK ... ( )
jurov: !up princessnell
jurov: hello, long time no see
ben_vulpes: << it's a business! it's a charity! it's some people who failed to invest in their property for decades and now want everyone else to shoulder the burden of bringing their property up to code!
assbot: This black-owned Portland business will disappear without your help. — Medium ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9919 @ 0.00055876 = 5.5423 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: g'morning princessnell
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: ben_vulpes: played with shiva yet ?
princessnell: thanks. howdy ben_vulpes + all
jurov: princessnell: you have here 15675 s.qntr shares, want to do anything with them?
danielpbarron: hi there :)
ascii_butugychag: the 64 gigazimbabwedollar question:
ascii_butugychag: is princessnell named after the 'diamond age' heroine.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.0005548 = 9.1542 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag wassat ?
mircea_popescu: hey princessnell
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: b00k. neal stephenson. quite lulzy
ascii_butugychag: had little gurl, nell, who illicitly found a robotic tutor who gave her puzzles about 'princess nell' and taught her to survive in the Dark Fyootoor (tm)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4054 @ 0.00055875 = 2.2652 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: << in other news apparently the anme is joshua unseth
assbot: Who made this ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
ascii_butugychag: 'diamond age' is prolly closest thing i know to a fictional portrayal of... tmsr
princessnell: ascii_butugychag yes. i am lame.
princessnell: hey mircea_popescu. all goes well in the kingdom?
mircea_popescu: << not actually terribru.
assbot: #savetherobots ... ( )
mircea_popescu: princessnell well for one thing it's a republic and for the other
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2016 04:36:34; mircea_popescu: <pete_dushenski> mircea_popescu: it's sorta incredible that the fiatists who need infinite growth all want to cut their own throats with reduced consumption while tmsr~, who doesn't want anything to do with infinite growth, is buying and consuming like it's going out of style << actually, best estimate i can get puts TMSR GDP growth for 2015 somewhere around 450-500%. that's not 4.5-5%. it's not 45-5
mircea_popescu: hdbuck you know you're leaking ip.
mircea_popescu: !up hdbuck
mircea_popescu: !gettrust assbot hdbuck
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user hdbuck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. | |
mircea_popescu: and also you can self-voice.
hdbuck: ah, sure i know
mircea_popescu: princessnell and how goes with you ? ready to do some serious newswork jet ?
thestringpuller: !up ascii_butugychag
mircea_popescu: jurov> so, was anything worked out yet between turdatron and deedbot? << not so far.
mircea_popescu: do you mind holding my hand again while i try to send stuff to this ?
hdbuck: mircea, about all that ‘proposal’ of yours, isnt it somehow sealing the 1MB limit?
mircea_popescu: !up mappum
jurov: mircea_popescu: you're asking me?
jurov: i won't mind
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00056905 = 9.4462 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: ok so i am sending an email to with subject line Certify polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc with content as a clearsigned short explanation of what it is, and with two attachments
mircea_popescu: polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch and polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch.mircea_popescu.sig in this order
mircea_popescu: problems ?
jurov: no problems
mircea_popescu: want a witness email cc'd ?
jurov: not needed, if it can find and verify the clearsigned part marked as text/plain or text/gpg, all is swell
mircea_popescu: aaaand ... sent@
jurov: discarded :( looking...
jurov: had wordwrap enabled?
jurov: yep. you did
mircea_popescu: for the body ?
jurov: yes, the clearsigned text
mircea_popescu: aaand sent!
mircea_popescu: basically email-based ml posting reduces to human-impersonated irc bot o.O
jurov: huh, i now see only pgp signature without text
jurov: see your outbox
mircea_popescu: aghaga derp.\
jurov: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: now mircea_popescu knows the joys !11
mircea_popescu: 3rd's a charm ?
mircea_popescu: so far tis been my fault ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: it is 'always the user's fault'
jurov: zing!
ascii_butugychag: 'doctor, it hurts'
mircea_popescu: well, no.
mircea_popescu: ahh there we go.
ascii_butugychag: congrats mircea_popescu
ascii_butugychag: btw which main.cpp does this patch sit on ?
jurov: it does not touch main.cpp
mircea_popescu: it's on bitcoinrpc
mircea_popescu: mod6 why is your v perl implementation named on ml instead of a saner v99996 ?
mircea_popescu: im contemplating signing this to reflect its successful usage to bring up nodes, but should i really sign a file called "" ?
ascii_butugychag goes & actually reads
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag tis short and sweet.
ascii_butugychag: this is how a patch ought to be.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: you won't be happy until you have plug in head to computer
mircea_popescu: omaigerd jurov is such a gadfly
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 why is your v perl implementation named on ml instead of a saner v99996 ? << weird? where do you see that?
mod6: afaik i've always named the actual file `'
mircea_popescu goes to check, finds
jurov: ooooh maybe ml renamed it to avoid conflict
mircea_popescu: where the fuck did i end up with this then o.O
mod6: yah, that's the right one.
mod6: no idea how you got tho
ascii_butugychag: 1) rename 2) forget
ascii_butugychag: ^ the mega-algo
mircea_popescu: ok well. they're all 3 identical : the v, the v-0001 of mystery and the on the actual machine that pressed with it
thestringpuller: !s selinux
assbot: 11 results for 'selinux' :
mircea_popescu: so ima go ahead.
mod6: alrighty.
mod6: you may wanna hold off for a minute
mod6: something is wrong with that patch, and V isn't doing anything about it.
mircea_popescu: toolate.jpg
mod6: f
mircea_popescu: anyway, im not doing a patch. im doing
assbot: [BTC-dev] Certify 99996K ... ( )
polarbeard: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu: hey thanks for reviewing and submitting my patch
mircea_popescu: cheerios.
polarbeard: anything else I can do? should I play with shiva? :)
mircea_popescu: by all means, i like to see an apoplectic alf.
mod6: whats weird here, is that the hashes in the patch, before and after, match nothing that i've got. so i've gotta figure that out.
polarbeard: so is the plan to port all rpc commands to shiva actually?
mircea_popescu: yes. and then all logging and then etc.
mod6: and that might be because i'm running with my two replacement patches for ascii's stuff that haven't been verified yet.
mod6: will find out here in a minute
polarbeard: mod6: you mean on my patch?
mircea_popescu: mod6 that'd be exactly what it'd be
mod6: looks like it compiled fine -- even though the patch had to apply with Hunk offset garbage
mod6: this one needs to be reground
mod6: if anyone else is in the middle of creating a patch - maybe hold off a day or so before you submit until I can straighten out the tree & test everything.
polarbeard: yes, it needs reground, I didn't know it will be submitted so what I published is on top of my better logging patches
mod6: or at least until i give the "all good" signal in here.
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: ty mod6. i'd like to note that in a time of 'fog of war', when some patch is up in the air, it is not necessary to hold off on ~all~ work, but only things which concern the affected subsystems.
ascii_butugychag: a, e.g., shiva.cpp - only patch - will work fine
jurov: and since everyone is regrinding patches right and left, maybe we'd like to revisit the notion of "obsoletes that other one"
mircea_popescu: go on jurov ?
ascii_butugychag: jurov: it's a 'longest chain' sort of thing. see old thread.
ascii_butugychag: an obsolete patch is simply one that doesn't keep getting built on.
mircea_popescu: forking as a way of life.
ascii_butugychag: imho any other definition is necessarily un-vtronic
ascii_butugychag: just like in bitcoin
jurov: is that always decidable? if i have A, which has a child patch B, and author regrinds A into A' which is to be kept?
ascii_butugychag: it is no more immediately decidable than a young chain fork in bitcoin
jurov: imo both A and A' should be kept at leas B' isn't reground too
ascii_butugychag: when there are two prongs of equal length
jurov: but how do I add both A and A' into the repo without renaming?
mod6: ah, so this is what is very weird:
mod6: still needs to be re-ground, but was just weird that it had no matching antecedents
mircea_popescu: mod6 as he says, turns out he wrote it on top of patches that didn't make in
ascii_butugychag: mod6: what am i looking at
mod6: and thats even with a full sync of the mirror as it exists up until this very minute.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ahh, ok.
mircea_popescu: well yes because he never actually published them, ie, by sending to ml or w/e the process is.
mod6: no worries, they need to be re-ground, i'll work on that.
mircea_popescu: but this MIGHT be a bug in v
polarbeard: yes, sorry for that, got me totally by surprise
mircea_popescu: because if i sign random shit that doesn't actually connect to the tree even if it claims to
mircea_popescu: it shouldn't press.
mod6: right this is actually a really good test case.
mircea_popescu: then again
ascii_butugychag: i thought mod6's vtron actually verified each patch operation ?
mircea_popescu: it doesn't press.
mod6: and yah, its certainly flawed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13527 @ 0.00057044 = 7.7163 BTC [+]
ascii_butugychag: (also important to disable 'fuzziness' in the latter)
mod6: it verifies the post press checksum.
ascii_butugychag: but not the return code of patch -p0 < .... ?
mod6: but that could be somehow broken as well, obviously, this needs some attention.
ascii_butugychag: (my own vtron verified nothing at all, i must point out.)
mircea_popescu: but as polarbeard among others can testify, this makes writing code fucking difficult, thanks god.
mircea_popescu: so many things you gotta check!
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: recall how it was pre-v ?
mod6: before i re-grind this patch, im gonna look into V a bit while I wait for ascii to give me the green light on the other two reground from lastnight.
polarbeard: it's a matter of maintaining a personal branch and an official one
mircea_popescu: anyway : this FORK BY DEFAULT!!11 tendency of the v world, whereby it takes serious work and generally to stay on the same branch is one of its best features imo.
mircea_popescu: creates thriving communities and supports the implicit "fragmentation=strength" properties of the wot something fierce.
ascii_butugychag: mod6: you can give the green light to yourself, just vdiff the result of applying my two patches vs. the result of applying your unified.
ascii_butugychag: if same - then works
mod6: im just trying to be sure, im already pretty sure... but i wanted you to look/test so i dont end up with more on my plate
deedbot-: accepted: 1
mod6: man, v is failing badly.
mircea_popescu: eh dun panic mod6
mircea_popescu: say, you got enough sleep last nite ?
mod6: the output hashes of net.h/net.cpp/bitcoinrpc.cpp are not matching the vpatch at all, this should have died mid press.
mod6: but it didn't
mod6: sleep, eh, yah.
mod6: bout par
shinohai: >.< do sleep mod6
mircea_popescu: mod6 but does it press ? from what i see it correctly says no antecedents found etc
mod6: it does press, yes, but it shouldn't
mircea_popescu: unautomated tests ftw huh
mod6: and.. even if it does press, it should have immediately haulted when it saw this:
mod6: here's a debug snippit
mod6: i've got some idiotic thing going on in there, looking now.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu:, mod6: notice the '5 offset' ??
mircea_popescu: if only it were built in lisp mod6
ascii_butugychag: gotta disable fuzzz
mircea_popescu: then it wouldn't have had this problem :D
ascii_butugychag: that way v will stop where it must
ascii_butugychag: i wonder who thought 'fuzzy' diff was a good idea for a default to begin with
polarbeard: 'this must fit' :D
ascii_butugychag: reminds me of the circular connectors, with 100s of pins, that rockets had - in su they copied american plugs, yes; but they also had sergeants with hammers
ascii_butugychag: 'yes it will fit!11111'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10669 @ 0.00057044 = 6.086 BTC [+]
polarbeard: cable connection succeeded (offset 5 pins broken).
polarbeard: uhg, those would require --backup-if-mismatch --force
mircea_popescu had no idea diff even has a "fuzzy" concept.
mircea_popescu: how does this work ? i'm sitting here doumbfounded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16950 @ 0.00056976 = 9.6574 BTC [-]
polarbeard: finds surrounding lines, omits whitespace, and don't know what more dirty tricks
ascii_butugychag: tries to find a place where the context fits.
mircea_popescu: but... so then why bother doing a diff
ascii_butugychag: it is 'patch' that does this
mircea_popescu: just you know, run a tail on the file. good enough
ascii_butugychag: tries to make the patch fit
mircea_popescu: oh oh nm then.
ascii_butugychag: and i warned, that this has to be switched off
mircea_popescu: jesus i wonder how much "mission critical code" was really written by patch itself.
ascii_butugychag: or you get improperly localized failure
ascii_butugychag: prolly enough to be 'interesting'
polarbeard: lol, committed by patch
ascii_butugychag: and the overall effect is more similar to the rocket pins
ascii_butugychag: than to a ppm of anything
ascii_butugychag: (physically speaking)
ascii_butugychag: gnupatch has 'fuzz' because... you never know whether the comments got regendered ? or what.
ben_vulpes: whitespace gardeners.
ascii_butugychag: at any rate, v really started as a pill against this particular thing
ascii_butugychag: 'this patch applies IF THIS HASH otherwise FUCKOFF'
ascii_butugychag: in fact, the use of gnudiff/patch is really happenstance
mircea_popescu: well this has been a most instructive experience.
mircea_popescu: welcome to the club polarbeard eh.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00056976 = 6.3528 BTC [-]
polarbeard: I'm aliasing potch='patch --fuzzy 1000'
ascii_butugychag: v is simply a mathatron that deals in the basic operation h,s1,o,s2 where s1 and s2 are strings, h is an operation (usually a hash) for recognizing said strings via trapdoor, and o is a transform
ascii_butugychag: we have right now a profoundly braindamaged o
ascii_butugychag: that it works at all, to our purpose, is a marvel.
polarbeard: you can always use meta-make ;)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4580 @ 0.00057044 = 2.6126 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: really, a properly behaving o shouldn't be a big deal to write neh ?
mircea_popescu: it's the "clever" one that takes 18bn loc
ascii_butugychag: it kinda reduces to 'p'
ascii_butugychag: incidentally, to answer a question that jurov asked a while ago, it is not only possible to use an arbitrary hash function with v, but even, theoretically, to use none at all.
ascii_butugychag: (the entire file is its own identified)
ascii_butugychag: *identifier
ascii_butugychag: this would result in gargantuan vpatches, but... utterly unassailable.
jurov: and my other question about maintaining A and A' in "mempool" ?
PeterL: can v press to multiple heads, or do I have to pick one?
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: at the same time ?!! why??
jurov: does v allow to press both AB and A' from one repository?
ascii_butugychag: jurov: A and A' are, if dropped in the hopper, equally legit pressings
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14295 @ 0.00057044 = 8.1544 BTC [+]
ascii_butugychag: jurov: a correctly-designed vtron - absolutely will
deedbot-: [Trilema] Qntra (S.QNTR) January 2016 Statement -
jurov: but the actual files must be renamed, no?
PeterL: I mean, I see leafs of malleus_mikehearnification and maxint_locks_corrected, what if I want to include both? or am I misunderstanding what is going on?
polarbeard: why isn't the last version the only valid one?
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: my original vtron was controlled by manually selecting patch sets
ascii_butugychag: this is really the best way, imho
PeterL: I am looking at mod6's v, and trying to figure out how to control it?
ascii_butugychag: place the ones you want in a dir, make sure you have the desired seals, and press
mircea_popescu: <jurov> and my other question about maintaining A and A' in "mempool" ? << everything is in the mempool al ltime anyway.
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: you can do it just as well with his
mircea_popescu: the forget function is not implemented deliberately
mircea_popescu: every node uses its own
ascii_butugychag: my point was that there is not a special knob, you don't need it, your unix file system is the knob
mod6: i know at one point i did negitive tests on this, but my problem in there is idiotic, i was not paying close enough attention
ascii_butugychag: want both? include both, and let it press everything it can see
mircea_popescu: PeterL you specify where you want to end up.
mod6: when you press, if the hash of the pressed file doens't match the expected, it should die right then and there.
polarbeard: I actually do that, but because metamake is really dumb :(
ascii_butugychag: mod6: i still see 'offset' in there?
mod6: thats correct.
mod6: it dies.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13812 @ 0.00057044 = 7.8789 BTC [+]
mod6: im testing the wrong fucking scalar in my condition :<
ascii_butugychag: mod6: patch .... -F 0 ...
jurov: phf how do you solve multiple versions of one vpatch?
PeterL: (p | press) (<press_dir> <head>) << so I have to specify the genesis? what is head?
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: the genesis is always implicit in the head
ascii_butugychag: thinkaboutit
ascii_butugychag: (all heads have arses)
PeterL: genesis is arse?
PeterL: oh, I was thinking about it upside down, I guess
PeterL: why not call it root?
ascii_butugychag: insufficiently descriptive
PeterL: ok, so what do I use as head? one of the leafs?
ascii_butugychag: genesis is where a v object comes to exist.
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: not necessarily
ascii_butugychag: you can use a non-leaf node as a head
ascii_butugychag: even genesis
ascii_butugychag: if you press to genesis, you get the bitcoin we started with.
PeterL: but if I use a leaf, will it include the other leafs?
jurov: i guess this is not implemented yet, ability to press multiple non-conflicting heads at once
jurov: *leafs
ascii_butugychag: my vtron had it
ascii_butugychag: but in a very primitive way
ascii_butugychag: (you could cut into the middle of a leaf set more or less alphabetically)
ascii_butugychag: my intent was that the user would include ALL of the leaves he is interested in by using a custom patch dir, and then press to the last.
ascii_butugychag: this would give you the entire tree as represented by your patches+seals+keys set.
jurov: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: mod6: i recommend for it to also run patch with F 0
ascii_butugychag: (no fuzz)
ascii_butugychag: and to die if return code is ever not 0
ascii_butugychag: ~that way~ you will end with a press of the last makes-sense pressing !
ascii_butugychag: instead of rubbish
ascii_butugychag: and it will help you to learn what went wrong
ascii_butugychag: think about it:
ascii_butugychag: the result of a 'patch' ever not matching the hash, SHOULD NOT HAPPEN
ascii_butugychag: it is an error condition!
ascii_butugychag: should not be possible at all
mod6: one sec
jurov: <troll>why include the context then? use ed output format or such</troll>
ascii_butugychag: jurov: perfectly valid idea
ascii_butugychag: jurov: context could, theoretically, be regenerated from the file.
thestringpuller: ed is the best text editor ever invented.
thestringpuller: should be mandatory kids learn to code on that for at least one project.
polarbeard: I'd enjoy no context
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: ever use 'sam' (editor) ?
thestringpuller: i have not
assbot: Coinbase treats all transfers to your account as (1099) Payments : BitcoinMarkets ... ( )
polarbeard: sam, executable strings
ascii_butugychag: what exactly else is a program ?
ascii_butugychag: than 'executable string', l0l
polarbeard: executable ints? :)
ascii_butugychag: shinohai: that article is mega-unsurprising, coinbase is following 'letter of the law' in usa
ascii_butugychag: moved money? 'income'
shinohai: bleh
ascii_butugychag: how are ~they~ to know where you got it.
ascii_butugychag: if i dump a credit card into my own 'paypal' input, they will dutifully tally it up and 'income'
ascii_butugychag: the machine doesn't give a fuck to whom the card belongs
mod6: ascii_butugychag: hey, can you take a look at this? i pressed up to the vpatch in the flow before polars then.. manually patched with -F 0, but didn't seem to do anything:
ascii_butugychag: go, build arse-mouth system, rack up $1B in tax, $10M in paypal fee, ahve fun
mod6: what am I missing?
ascii_butugychag: sooo apparently,
ascii_butugychag: 'fuzz' refers to ignored context
ascii_butugychag: and offset can't actually be disabled in gnupatch
ascii_butugychag: at least according to the man pages.
mod6: thats what i gather too.
mod6: ok, well, we can worry about that later when we write our own patch-o-matic
mod6: meanwhile, I'll work on an automated test for this change and work on republishing this fix as a one change deal. will be v99995
mod6: sorry folks.
polarbeard: that's it, I'm patching every .c on my disk together with F 1000 and compiling it
polarbeard: actually F0 didn't apply offset
polarbeard: $ echo $?
ben_vulpes: mega lol at coinbase
ben_vulpes: entirely predictable though
shinohai: !up ascii_butugychag
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00056976 = 8.2615 BTC [-]
ascii_butugychag: re: block cipher thread: << interesting, djb
assbot: Snuffle 2005 ... ( )
mod6: *sigh*
ascii_butugychag: so on top of it all... the behaviour isn't standard ?
ascii_butugychag: whod'avethunkit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3698 @ 0.00057044 = 2.1095 BTC [+]
punkman: polarbeard: actually F0 didn't apply offset << it should, if you offset the code. but it must find the context verbatim
punkman: might be useful when we have hundreds of patches
assbot: Git - wiggle.git/summary ... ( )
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Stressed Out by Twenty One Pilots, translated. -
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> my intent was that the user would include ALL of the leaves he is interested in by using a custom patch dir, and then press to the last. << this is not a bad approach (for dev work). i wouldn't want it in the press-for-deploy, but different story.
mircea_popescu: <polarbeard> that's it, I'm patching every .c on my disk together with F 1000 and compiling it << lmao. STONE SOUP!
punkman: I'm thinking any diff replacement should do strictly binary diffs, and only include line-oriented context diff as a visual aid
mircea_popescu: punkman i've been thinking about it too, seems in point of fact we're mangling two distinct things. 1) patches-as-code ; 2) patches-as-human-readable.
punkman: F must be lower than number of context lines, so F 3 should do the same as F 1000 in most cases :P
mircea_popescu: basically it's the clearsign issue all over again.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think salsa was djb's own version of shiva, ie, "playing with ; don't use in anger"
punkman: djb's ChaCha is getting pretty popular these days
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00057044 = 7.815 BTC [+]
punkman: "New features of Latin dances: Analysis of Salsa, ChaCha, and Rumba." << lol this title
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw what about speck, nsa's own rot13 ?
punkman:;a=blob;; hey this guy also likes single letter names, has a "p" program
assbot: Git - wiggle.git/blob - ... ( )
mircea_popescu: incidentally, thinking vaguely along the lines of making a b-a call for papers for symm cypher, what would we actually want ? i'm thinking a) block sizes of 1, 4, 16, 64 kbytes. none of that bit-denominated bs, wtf is this, 64 bits. fuck that. b) key size of 64kb fixed. c) bonus points for proved hardness, as-hard-as-x etc d) bonus points for not using just basic arithmetics. fuck this shift-and-xor hack-and-slash bs,
mircea_popescu: there's plenty of interesting constructions in alt-algebras, number and set theory etc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00056976 = 4.4441 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: basically, do everything exactly opposite to the "wisdom" of a very inept if deeply self-pompositous field
punkman: why not stream cipher?
mircea_popescu: stream cypher = particularly braindamaged blockcypher, ie one with a tiny block/
trinque: anybody recommend a way to import a private key to trb?
shinohai: trinque have used pybitcointools with success
punkman: I remember some mentions of a backport patch for key import
punkman: but really, just create the tx elsewhere
mircea_popescu: actually polarbeard if you're looking for more backportage stuff to do ... rawtx thing.
mircea_popescu: but give it a GOOD read aforehand, it's crappy as found in .8
mircea_popescu: none of this cavalry charging it.
mircea_popescu: !up likemob1
punkman: mircea_popescu: stream cypher = particularly braindamaged blockcypher, ie one with a tiny block << vernam can stream
mircea_popescu: explain this to me.
punkman: I can send arbitrary number of encrypted bits to you, no?
mircea_popescu: this does not differentiate between stream and block.
BingoBoingo: polarbeard: And after rawtx ported Scheme X11 widget for interacting with shiva over rs-232 would totes make Gavin all Jelly
jurov: X11 over rs232, now that's new to me
jurov: !b 3
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
BingoBoingo: jurov: Everything is new
BingoBoingo: In other news at the end of 2016 GE is discontinuing compact flourescent light bulbs. Nothing of value was lost.
assbot: Bumping into Stallman, again ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32350 @ 0.00057044 = 18.4537 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: that may be the epitome of anti-interesting by now.
asciilifeform: << (c) has never been publicly achieved afaik
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 23:48:55; mircea_popescu: incidentally, thinking vaguely along the lines of making a b-a call for papers for symm cypher, what would we actually want ? i'm thinking a) block sizes of 1, 4, 16, 64 kbytes. none of that bit-denominated bs, wtf is this, 64 bits. fuck that. b) key size of 64kb fixed. c) bonus points for proved hardness, as-hard-as-x etc d) bonus points for not using just basic arithmetics. fuck this shift-and-xor
BingoBoingo: Yeah. Today was dominated by a bunch of these not quite news things.
BingoBoingo: Like Amazon opening storefronts
asciilifeform: << non-chained blocks of whatever size, get you this
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 23:50:52; mircea_popescu: <<< this is what small blocks gets you.
asciilifeform: (for some value of this)
mircea_popescu: only if the block count is large enough.
mircea_popescu: otp is... not chained
asciilifeform: otp has no block size
mircea_popescu: the idea that "better box" rather than "larger blocks" prevents from that is not unlike the fundamental idea at the basis of whitening.
mircea_popescu: otp has block size = message size by definition.
mircea_popescu: show me ?
asciilifeform: in correct otp, you ~never~ get a situation where same block -> same output
mircea_popescu: exactly.
asciilifeform: << the motives for usg officially releasing a cryptosystem in 2013 can be discerned only by an expert psychiatrist
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 23:42:55; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw what about speck, nsa's own rot13 ?
asciilifeform: (note that speck and simon were ~not~ proclaimed as crown standards, like des or aes)
asciilifeform: just thrown to the peanut gallery, for - apparently - the hell of it
asciilifeform: 'looksee! we publish!'
assbot: SIMON and SPECK in Cryptol - Galois, Inc. ... ( )
asciilifeform: especially for ben_vulpes ^
asciilifeform: << funnily, maslennikov's b00k was largely about his futile attempts to interest kgb middle management in group-theoretical foundations for new block ciphers
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 23:48:55; mircea_popescu: there's plenty of interesting constructions in alt-algebras, number and set theory etc.
mircea_popescu: this "make the block small" and "make the cipher computable" restraints are EXACTLY wrong.
mircea_popescu: they're straight opposite of right.
asciilifeform: computable?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh, you know what i mean. "use xor it's cheap!"
mircea_popescu: fuck that stupid shit. if the computer massaging my 10kb message takes a minute i couldn't care the fuck less - it took me 10 minutes to get all the guns arrayed to make a ml submission.
asciilifeform: thing is, 'use modular multiplication instead! it's costly!' does not automagically yield good cipher
mircea_popescu: i specifically don't fucking want sub second cryptography.
mircea_popescu: it shows you're not using the machine.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform absolutely not.
asciilifeform: the field of crypto that has provable hardness foundation is depressingly empty
mircea_popescu: if i tell the woman to "spend an hour cooking, this 30 seconds cookings are bs" this doesn't mean i'm inviting her to pick her nose for 59.5 minutes.
asciilifeform: doesn't even include rsa.
asciilifeform: however, i do find it... interesting, that it is not ~entirely~ empty, but the intersection of it and implementations ~you can get~ .... IS.
mircea_popescu: it's clearly where we must go.
mircea_popescu: from a strategic perspective, that's the spot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4395 @ 0.00056976 = 2.5041 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: most elementarily,
mircea_popescu: dude you think yourself in 1650 or something ?
asciilifeform: good otp is easier now than ever.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: the punishment for otp is "you may not use computer anymore"
asciilifeform: sure you can.
asciilifeform: it just has to be coin-sized and include thermite.
mircea_popescu: "if thge best you can come up with is otp - give me back the cpu and take this mechanical gearbox instead"
asciilifeform: the weak link of ancient otp was always the rng.
asciilifeform: !s würfelgenerator
assbot: 0 results for 'w�rfelgenerator' :
mircea_popescu: !s whoregenerator
assbot: 0 results for 'whoregenerator' :
assbot: Mils Electronic ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally do you recall that very ingenious thing that worked essentially as a vinyl record player needle but on a random chunk of clay pot ?
asciilifeform: sigsally
mircea_popescu: sort-of like an extension fo the greek cone items
asciilifeform: or hm, nope
asciilifeform: sigsally was the first electronic otp, american, used vocoder (in '40s!) but used ordinary vinyl record
asciilifeform: you might be thinking of 'physically unclonable function' which is a crackpot field
asciilifeform: that afaik never went anywhere serious
mircea_popescu: that's not it. it basically was a mechanical device, worked sort-of like the scytale except on a chunk of a clay item
mircea_popescu: german clockworkery if i recall correctly.
asciilifeform: never heard of such a thing
mircea_popescu: darn where the fuck did i see this thing
asciilifeform: would be interesting to see, considering that i can't get repeatable reading of anything out of a clay pot ~today~
mircea_popescu: it wasn't a pot, it was a slab.
mircea_popescu: basically it had a place you placed the clay fragment in, and a rod which traveled the cracked surface.
asciilifeform: i only ever heard of breaking an object and the halves become identifying passes
mircea_popescu: wasn't very good in that it went back and forth over the distance
mircea_popescu: then again nothing stopped you from servicing it
mircea_popescu: well that's common.
asciilifeform: aha, goes back to at least babylon
mircea_popescu: dja understand how this thing looked or am i not explaining very well ?
asciilifeform: i can nearly picture it.
mircea_popescu distinctly recalls the very smoothly polished travel rod
mircea_popescu: which isn't fucking useful.
mircea_popescu: anyway : best ux ever in a mechanical cryptological machine. you could use as many slabs per message as you felt like.
asciilifeform: and your key weighs 500kg!
asciilifeform: and he doesn't like paper otp !
mircea_popescu: hey, nobody said it's cheap.
asciilifeform: at least paper ~burns~
mircea_popescu: but this was a 1700s item im pretty sure
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform clay breaks :)
mircea_popescu: drop the 500kgs, forget about that key lol
asciilifeform: aha and you can load musket with it.
mircea_popescu: anyway - it's not that i don't like paper otp, or otp generally. it's that if that's the best you can do, you should have been a clockmaker
mircea_popescu: so as not to say "should have been a shoemaker"
mircea_popescu: dun need computers for otp.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36900 @ 0.00056573 = 20.8754 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22881 @ 0.00056354 = 12.8944 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: actually for many years i have thought about the ideal electric otp.
asciilifeform: it would, likely, be ~electrochemical~
asciilifeform: consider:
asciilifeform: the ideal otp machine:
asciilifeform: 1) the random bits are born all at once, rather than written in one (or machine word) at a time from some specially-built electronic widget
asciilifeform: 2) are born on the two (or more) carriers at the same time
asciilifeform: that then go their separate ways;
asciilifeform: 3) come out one at a time
asciilifeform: 4) are, ideally, erased irrevocably by so doing, or at least erasable in reasonably small chunks (when used) and destroyable all at once (when you pull the pin)
asciilifeform: 5) cannot under any circumstances be ~read~ all at once or quickly enough to be considered 'all at once' for practical purposes of enemy capture & device switcheroo
asciilifeform: each of these 5 pieces contains a number of sub-boojums
asciilifeform: e.g., 1 and 2 imply that there are sufficient bits per entropy without having to resort to whitenings or distillation
asciilifeform: (the former being an exercise in self-delusion, the latter - adds complexity and potentially buggy or noisy circuitry)
asciilifeform: some of the variants i've envisioned include.... a certain kind of battery, where ion gradients vary when a molten electrolyte cools, and it then cut into 2+ strips, and 'burned' like a candle
asciilifeform: emitting two sets of ~same static waveform at once
asciilifeform: and... but why go into it here. anybody who wants this, can think on his own.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you feel like entertaining some crackpottery, suppose a hash function defined as follows : a) calculate PM ; pM ; P!M ; p!M where P and p are the perimeters of polygons of K sides circumscribing and inscribed respectively in the same circle and !M is the bitwise negation of M ; b) calculate V1 = 2pMPM/(PM+pM) ; V2 = sqrt(pMPM) ; V3 = 2p!MP!M/(P!M+p!M) ; V4 = sqrt(p!MP!M) ; c) calculate H = (V1 - V2) *
mircea_popescu: (V3 - V4) and finally d) return blocksize digits from the key-th position in H.
mircea_popescu: how'd you go about attacking this ?
mircea_popescu: (and from 1 i see you like small blocks just abour as much as i do)
asciilifeform: i would have to think about it
asciilifeform: but gauss could prolly tell you right now!
asciilifeform: wake'im up.
mircea_popescu: (basically - they're the classical (archimedan!) approximations of pi, for the text and reversed text, to an arbitrary precision. makes for an eminently tunable hashfunction)
asciilifeform: terrible hash function
asciilifeform: bailey, borwein, & plouffe.
mircea_popescu: do you see what i did here ?
asciilifeform: (iirc plouffe was the worker bee and the other 2 were parasites)
mircea_popescu: it is apparently a lot easier to follow math in words than in symbols, EVEN FOR YOU
asciilifeform: why the bitwise negation ?
asciilifeform: actually i am writing it out in symbols!111111
asciilifeform: to follow at all!11
mircea_popescu: you took a second to answer after my 2nd line, minutes after the first produced nothing! timing attack on your brain!
asciilifeform: clearly!1
mircea_popescu: anyway - being able to calculate pi itself does not actually help here.
mircea_popescu: because we're specifically collecting hte noise of the formula against the text and its mirror, rather than pi itself.
mircea_popescu: hence the substractions.
asciilifeform: the root ops go poorly with bit arithmetic
mircea_popescu: so they do.
mircea_popescu: fuck the fucking computing-centring paradigm in crypotography
mircea_popescu: it's your tool not your fucking master.
asciilifeform: then let's have the candle.
mircea_popescu: it's your tool, it must be used.
asciilifeform: then you're stuck with wandering decimal crud
asciilifeform: and titanic lookup tables, etc.
mircea_popescu: sure. anyway bignum operations is a solved problem
mircea_popescu: even in lisp
asciilifeform: 'even' l0l
asciilifeform: (the original home of bignum)
mircea_popescu: (my trolling is ever more refined)
asciilifeform: but decimal soup is still ick
asciilifeform: you won't have repeatable output
asciilifeform: no repeat, no decrypt
mircea_popescu: hash function not cipjher
asciilifeform: then works
mircea_popescu is still curious to hear how people'd attack, if anyone cares.
mircea_popescu: esp re preimage.
trinque: shinohai: I don't see anything in pybitcointools to shove a privkey into a wallet.dat
asciilifeform: i will prolly care. on the train, some time soon.
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, i bought that quiet fan kakobrekla recommended ages ago
kakobrekla: and its utter shit you will say
asciilifeform: and laughed when i uncrated it and saw that it ships in a gaudy display case, with clear window, and velcro (!) lid
trinque: also, I don't see sendrawtransaction in trb's list o' commands... wat do?
kakobrekla: whut?
asciilifeform: and was laughing until i saw that it starts spinning when i turn the box a bit !
asciilifeform: shows off the quality of the bearing.
asciilifeform: no 'civilian' pc fan i ever bought, behaved this way.
kakobrekla: aha yea
asciilifeform: i haven't even plugged the thing in yet, and already impressed.
kakobrekla: the 'be quiet' ones that is?
asciilifeform: 'be quiet silent wings 2'
kakobrekla: they also spin at the lowest rpm of all the high end fans i tested
phf: jurov: i don't handle patch conflicts yet, until there's some kommunitee resolution. and if the answer is "remove them from your patches" probably going to add some kind of tree walk in addition to topo. fwiw right now on the site you can see patches that wouldn't press cleanly in "pink"
trinque: anyone? given a privkey in hand, how the hell do I get trb to send some coin? I do not want to change addresses and nothing I find can chew on this wallet
phf: jurov: like , asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring don't press because presumably conflict with programmable-versionstring malleus_mikehearnificarum in order. no idea why polarbeard_better_log_messages polarbeard_fix_instance_print don't press though
assbot: polarbeard_fix_instance_print ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 02:14:49; trinque: also, I don't see sendrawtransaction in trb's list o' commands... wat do?
asciilifeform: implement it!
asciilifeform: in shiva.
trinque: oh I'm already looking at it :p
asciilifeform: (btc-eat-tx vector)
asciilifeform: not so hard
phf: kek, i know why polarbeard_better_log_messages don't press. it depends on asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum, which is replaced
asciilifeform: iirc mod6 pointed this out earlier
phf: yeah, i'm not up to date on logs
asciilifeform: btw i don't understand why phf's thing needs to 'handle' patch conflicts
asciilifeform: just needs to display the tree
asciilifeform: from which is ought to be ~apparent~ what can coexist and what cannot
asciilifeform: for such is v
phf: well, the idea is that you want to click on the patch and see how to press it. if i were to click in polarbeard_* presumably i want to press the tree that includes old malleus?
asciilifeform: anything that can sit down into a vtron, is pressable.
asciilifeform: by definition.
asciilifeform: and it ought to tell you how.
phf: right, but doing just topo won't tell you that
asciilifeform: the simplest algo, for all patchons in patch, dive down recursively and find ancestor.
asciilifeform: when you get to the genesis, you're done.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> i will prolly care. on the train, some time soon. << the reason i give it is mostly didactic. it plainly shows what i mean re proper use of math and treating your computer like a tool to do a job rather than treating your job as something to be adjusted to fit the computer without having to delve into complexities and subtleties of number theory etc. something as commonplace as "use the intervals of conf
mircea_popescu: idence of a polynomial method to estimate a transcendent" is really good enough. and it exhibits all those important properties : such as, you can ~actually~ use infinite message, and you can also use any arbitrary padding you like, up to infinity - the hash function won't complain. and you can want it to shit out any block size you want it to shit out - also won't complain, but give EQUALLY MEANINGFUL results. whether
mircea_popescu: you ask for 3 or 13 or 294 digits.
asciilifeform: (~a~ genesis, i should say)
mircea_popescu: trinque> also, I don't see sendrawtransaction in trb's list o' commands... wat do? << cry all the way home, we don't have it yet. backport it ? :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am quite certain that you knew this, but pretty much all published block ciphers date to the dark ages, when transistor was painfully expensive
mircea_popescu: still, some points have to be made
mircea_popescu: REPEATEDLY
mircea_popescu: also, this is NOT a block cipher
mircea_popescu: but anyway.
asciilifeform: age of cheap transistor had a faux-renaissance where folks used the cheap transistors for elaborate self-delusion - 'this is sooo complicated, nobody!1111 could crack'
asciilifeform: which led to a pile of corpses and a reaction.
asciilifeform: which enemy, naturally, took full advantage of
asciilifeform: and here we are, somewhere after this.
mircea_popescu: whereas the correct solution is to stick to the math. computers are fucking tractors not farm designers.
mircea_popescu: but hey, generation of cad and web and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: no i mean the autocad thing.
asciilifeform: and i meant cud.
asciilifeform: as in, what ruminant ruminates over
asciilifeform: or, alternatively,
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i was walking with a woman i walked with all over the fucking world, and she spontaneoushly said
asciilifeform: computer-UNaided designs.
mircea_popescu: "wtf is with these large buildings they're all ugly in the same way"
mircea_popescu: and i explained to her what autocad was
mircea_popescu: and she was horrified ever since.
asciilifeform: thing is that brutalism pre-dates cad.
phf: moar corbusier
asciilifeform: cars all looking entirely alike are a better example
danielpbarron: >> "We're going to increase the block size and make more of them. Everyone should be able to mine a block." (picture of Bernie Sanders at some rally)
mircea_popescu: hahaah what ?>
danielpbarron: it's some account that's fairly popular in the twatter circles of people who use terms like opsec and infosec, pointing out that the proponents of larger blocks sound like the guy who's running for president as a socialist
mircea_popescu: << in other news, plouffe's site is gone.
assbot: Page Maison de Simon Plouffe Home Page ... ( )
mircea_popescu: ftr, that's where the now-famous first of many "calculate nth decimal of transcendent without calculating the others" thing was published
asciilifeform: holy shit, plouffe?
asciilifeform: desaparecido ?
assbot: Plouffe's Inverter - OeisWiki ... ( )
mircea_popescu: guy really gave numeric appoaches a serious push.
assbot: Math Politics: Simon Plouffe and nth Digit Formula of π ... ( )
asciilifeform: ^ re: the perelmanization of ploufee
asciilifeform: *plouffe
asciilifeform: doesn't sprechen the inglisch so well, but not hard to understand:
asciilifeform: 'Peter Borwein wanted very much that I do a Ph. D. on the ISC but he wanted also to publish (with his name of course) an article before I deposit the thesis. Again the same story was going on, these 2 guys are so greedy I can't believe it. The behavior they had with me was not exclusive, especially Peter Borwein he was the same with most of his students, especially the good ones, sucking the maximum. Jon is the same but he has
asciilifeform: more talent in politics (more money too). He is good but has a tendency to site himself a lot. He thinks that if he had the idea of the sum of 2 numbers at one point in his life then all formulas in mathematics are his own discovery. About David H. Bailey. He came after the discovery of the formula and my small basic program , I had also a fortran version. This is where Peter Borwein suggested to add him as a collaborator to
asciilifeform: the discovery since he contributed to it (as he said), this is my second big mistake. Of course he accepted to co-write the article, who wouldn't ?! David H. Bailey (and Ferguson) are the authors of the PSLQ program. That program is the <american> version of the Pari-Gp program. I used it a little it is true, but what made the discovery was pari-Gp and Maple interface program I had. So actually, that person has nothing to do w
asciilifeform: ith the discovery of that algorithm and very little to do with the finding of the formula. The mistake was mine. Saying that Bailey found the formula is like saying that the formula was found by the Maple and Basic program.'
mircea_popescu: did i read this exact thing before re wolfram ?
asciilifeform: wolfram did it to somebody else
asciilifeform: re: turing-complete cellular automaton proof
mircea_popescu: but the same text!
asciilifeform: not same text. but same bullet hole, same corpse.
asciilifeform: all bullet holes are quite alike.
asciilifeform: one strong ox and two very, very effective plowing flies.
asciilifeform: << l0l! same bellard as of qemu and tinycc and many other fun things
assbot: The world of Pi - Bellard ... ( )
asciilifeform: found improvement of plouffe's algo.
asciilifeform: 'world is small'
shinohai: trinque: sorry 'twas this mod6 and I used to do it:
assbot: jackjack-jj/pywallet · GitHub ... ( )
asciilifeform: << lulzy derpatron from the spam in mircea_popescu's comment section
assbot: GitHub - 17Q4MX2hmktmpuUKHFuoRmS5MfB5XPbhod/dropzone-lib: An Anonymous Peer-To-Peer Local Contraband Marketplace ... ( )
funkenstein_: <-- a backport patch of privkey import/export should you be so inclined to look:
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 02:13:21; trinque: shinohai: I don't see anything in pybitcointools to shove a privkey into a wallet.dat
funkenstein_: ooh cool "physically unclonable functions". is that another way to say reality?
mod6: funkenstein_: hey, did you write that one?
funkenstein_: mod6 yeah, a few months ago.
mod6: oh awesome, did it make it into the ML?
funkenstein_: it got hung up when i added another patch "chuck_checkpoints" with mistake.. now sits there for eyeballs if anyone is interested
funkenstein_: there was some tree structure problem with original mailing list submission iirc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00056509 = 6.0747 BTC [+] {2}
funkenstein_: mod6, keep up the good work, tis nice to see some activity
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00057043 = 14.0326 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: funken_prikey_tools ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7142 @ 0.00056509 = 4.0359 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: ;;later tell funkenstein_ thanks. yeah, that patch will be useful. will try to get it in right after the release.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 03:05:02; funkenstein_: <-- a backport patch of privkey import/export should you be so inclined to look:
trinque: << anyone tell why that's an invalid transaction? when I sign it and feed to btcd, it tells me my R value is negative.
trinque: hanbot: this is holding up your deed til I find out why it's happening
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20172 @ 0.00056108 = 11.3181 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.0005679 = 1.5901 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: trinque: what version of bitcoin?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12286 @ 0.00055969 = 6.8764 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30700 @ 0.00057043 = 17.5122 BTC [+] {2}
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