Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-07-12 | 2015-07-14 → ↓
gernika: Well, they shouldn't outlaw it, at least.
BingoBoingo: It's about aesthetics
PeterL: aesthetics or anesthetics?
assbot: Army Cuts Hit Alaska, Georgia, Texas Hardest « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary ... ( http://bit.ly/1fBnsjr )
PeterL: " “At that point,” Allyn continued, “we will no longer be capable of fulfilling our responsibilities in accordance with the national security strategy.” " << Maybe they should bring some troops home from around the world?
mats: meh, hire Triple Canopy.
BingoBoingo: PeterL: Totally about aesthetics
mats: this reduction in force has been planned for a decade
mats: by... politicians
PeterL: well, the army is the biggest item in the budget, so if you want to make a dent it is the obvious place to start
mats: my understanding is that the long term plan has been to reduce the size of conventional troops to pay for more stuff in the socom budget
mats: since rumsfeld/bush
assbot: Cadaver Synod ... ( http://bit.ly/1O54gpA )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://cryptome.org/2015/07/force-052-050.pdf << carl force confiscations
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty
cazalla: PeterL, hey congrats! missus and i banged it out a few times last month trying for another.. find out if it took this week
asciilifeform: ^ long live the waterfall, aha
PeterL: it's funner if it takes longer
asciilifeform: or will it pay for tx fees once gavinspam runs short of oldcoinz ?
asciilifeform: (letting blocks fall under 950kB is out of the question, dontchaknow)
cazalla: what medication is that guy on? anti-depressants?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: My guess is txfeespam
asciilifeform did not know ^ existed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00054017 = 7.4814 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: poor door is SOP in larger US cities
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl congrats. boy or girl ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: gernika certainly a good objection.
mircea_popescu: seems beyond fucking stupid to frame that discussion in terms of banning tobacco. or for that matter, banning tobacco.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, obese people are an offense to humanity.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34268 @ 0.00053256 = 18.2498 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15826 @ 0.00053256 = 8.4283 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: SO finally got 0.7.2 ish built on OpenBSD 5.6 again. Turns out the problem this whole week was pointing at the wrong BDB version
mthreat: I just found out the search.b-a server is down until my friend pays the bill. sorry, search won't work until then.
mthreat: I'm going to move it to a different server soon to avoid this problem.
cazalla: ;;isup qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is down
mircea_popescu: mthreat send you a btc to help bills along ?
mircea_popescu: cazalla lookin into it
mircea_popescu: 206.144.86.90 - - [13/Jul/2015:02:19:37 -0400] "GET /2015/02/ceo-of-bitcoin-exchange-killed-in-thailand/ HTTP/1.1" 200 6182 "http://qntra.net/" "PHP/5.{3|2}.{1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|0}{1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|0}"
mircea_popescu: lol somebody doesn't grok this entire regex thing
punkman: "Greece 'strikes deal with creditors' after all-night talks finally end in agreement following 17 hours of tense negotiations "
mircea_popescu: what's the highlights ?
punkman: you know, same deal as the one people voted off as "NO"
punkman: but now we've killed all trust in banks
mircea_popescu: oxicodone.
punkman: which is a good thing of course
mircea_popescu: eh, trust.
punkman: maybe they wanna buy up Greece before the "long winter" ?
mircea_popescu: aren't these the same banks that stole 90% of cypriot funds a coupla years ago ? what trust.
mircea_popescu: nobody has "any trust" of the theoretical verbal kind in banks, then they go use them 100%
mircea_popescu: much like idiot couples that "can't stand each other" to hear them talk, but then go have bad sex twice a week.
punkman: I don't see how they can remove capital controls anytime soon without... going more bankrupt?
mircea_popescu: it's probably coming out of land values.
mircea_popescu: what's a thousand sq ft in downtown athens go for these days ?
punkman: no idea, but the europeans have been eyeing all that land owned by greek church
mircea_popescu: that gotta go.
punkman: they'll definitely sell off the telecom company to ze germans, which owns most cables and rents them out to the private telecoms
mircea_popescu: the eternal dilemma of the margins : self owned by the local idiots ? or by a distant, thus disinterested if actually competent empire.
punkman: Deutsche Telekom owns 40% already
mircea_popescu: "Since I am no longer at the helm of UO, let’s look at where it has gone in my absence. Elves and ninjas have been added into the game, things I specifically had banned. This is only a small example of why and how Ultima has drifted away from Richard Garriott, but I have not drifted away from Ultima. Overused, irrelevant & reused RPG elements are not the essence of my Ultimate RPG.
mircea_popescu: It is clear to me that I, Richard Garriott, am an essential ingredient of at least the Ultimate Ultima, if not more broadly the Ultimate RPG. Perhaps one day, now that the people who pushed me out of EA more than a decade ago are long since gone, EA will recognize that together, we could rebuild that franchise in a way that they have failed to do in the intervening years. Richard Garriott is an essential ingredient in
mircea_popescu: the Ultimate Ultima!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22756 @ 0.00053256 = 12.1189 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: for every actual steve jobs...
punkman: is that the portalarium guy?
mircea_popescu: well, legendary ultima creator, lord british etc. yes.
punkman: all the old game devs are trying to crowdfund games these days
punkman: idiots even bought back rights to Carmageddon
mircea_popescu: when it rains money, who's not gonna spare a pail ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, guy sold origin for 30mn. fucking nuts.
mircea_popescu: imagine, origin worth 30mn in 1992, watsap worth 20 bn in 2014.
punkman: I don't remember playing any of his games, were they good?
mircea_popescu: supposedly ultima online was major. i never really got into the series.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell whaack ever got it to run ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Why do we keep forgiving Double Fine? | GamesRadar ... ( http://bit.ly/1TwqmV0 )
BingoBoingo: punkman: So now that there's a deal do you want to write up Greece again?
mircea_popescu: dat piece o shit site. 3k lines page, content starts at line 798
mircea_popescu: aaaaand by line 862 the schmuck's rehashed the same intro three times while proposing his spin on it also three times. substantiation is still implicitly promised but i lost hope of delivery and who the fuck is the author anyway ?
mircea_popescu: unemployed lousy public school teachers on the rampage.
punkman: heh
punkman: BingoBoingo: maybe end of this week, no reason to cover the derps move-by-move
BingoBoingo: Alright
mircea_popescu: when did this become a discursive style anyway, "general statement, unsubstantiated claim, restatement of general statement, restatement of unsubstantiated claim, second restatement of general statement, second restatement of unsubstantiated claim, and then move into "we" territory.
mircea_popescu: what fucking we.
punkman: the psychology of crowdfunders ^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.00051355 = 7.3951 BTC [-]
punkman: "One intriguing detail with the EU statement: as part of market reforms designed to boost the economy, Greece will have to bring in Sunday trading hours."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17814 @ 0.00051757 = 9.22 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: ;;isup qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is down
punkman: jurov, did ml barf at my last email?
jurov: gpg: BAD signature from "punkman"
punkman: I wrapped at 74 columns before signing :/
jurov: try copying from sent mail and verifying
jurov: there are zillions of way how mail clients try to be helpful with autoformatting body text, not just wordwrap
jurov: better be safe and send clearsigned stuff as first attachment
jurov: ^ explanation also for ben_vulpes
punkman: ok, it worked now
jurov: what was it?
punkman: I suppose squirrelmail did something to the message
jurov: one client that can be easily configured and relied on to keep body text intact, is kmail. maybe that's why kdepim shitgnome devs (reportedly) use thunderbird instead :D
punkman: made this patch with "git diff", hope it works
jurov: looks fine. pls, what version it applies on ?
jurov: oh thermonuke
jurov: still not added to http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html .. this is hopeless
jurov: i'm tempted to just abandon it ane let someone else try making turdatron_revived
punkman: how did I break patches.html?
jurov: not you
jurov: it's most likely my cancerous addon to gnu mailman that failed to process it
punkman: maybe it doesn't like git diff output?
jurov: it does not read the patch at all
jurov: if you sent lenna_full.jpg and lenna_full.jpg.sig it should add them to list, too
punkman: my .sig verifies right?
jurov: just checked.. it does not
punkman: wtf
jurov: it checks at your side?
punkman: yes
jurov: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000122.html the sha1sums of your files are as shown here?
punkman: also works if I download .sig and --verify it
jurov: haven't you updated your key recently?
punkman: hmm I downloaded .patch attachment and it fails indeed
jurov: check the sums pls
jurov: if different, send me your ones and upload the patch, say, to dpaste for me to compare
punkman: I think something stripped a newline at eof
jurov: there is one empty line in the end of received .patch
punkman: I see sent patch ending with "}\n " and original with "}\n \n"
punkman flaps hands
jurov flails hands
jurov: cancer, indeed
punkman: does it work with --sign --armor files?
jurov: no it expects detached sigs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00051222 = 13.7787 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: it stripped the last newline from readme_s.txt as well
punkman: well if it doesn't reject files that don't match .sig, I could just put them in a tar.gz
jurov: it won't reject any files, it just won't track them either
BingoBoingo: The solution to this problem really seems to be all of the retarded mail clients.
punkman: guess I should try sending with mutt
jurov: BingoBoingo: what do you mean?
jurov: punkman: it was squirrelmail that removed these newlines?
BingoBoingo: There's just a huge disconnect between how people expect their mail client to behave and how they actually do
jurov: punkman pls check the outgoing folder (if you have any), we need to know what caused this
punkman: jurov, well I assume turdatron didn't do this, so must be squirrel or something inbetween
jurov: and i assume turdatron did. so let's get rid of these assumptions, don the gloves and check what's there
jurov: it won't help me if you resend .tar.gz and forget
punkman: the attachments in my "sent" folder had stripped newlines
jurov: okay. so it's squirrelmail, thanks for info
punkman: trying to google "squirrelmail strips newlines" and I get nothing though
jurov: and that's why i put "check if your outgoiug mail verifies" in the manual nobody reads
jurov: !s squirrelmail
jurov: oh search down again?
assbot: Logged on 13-07-2015 06:30:15; mthreat: I just found out the search.b-a server is down until my friend pays the bill. sorry, search won't work until then.
jurov: what a flashback to rg times "nm, phriend pays" :)
BingoBoingo: Oh, before my time
jurov: basically, rg IPOed bitvps, happily paid divs, even submitted something resmbling monthly reports at first... until DC subscription ran out and nobody was around to pay it in fiat
nubbins`: that's what happens when you let a 12yo run a business
nubbins`: those of you who are familiar with romance languages (mircea_popescu, davout, etc) may find this Canadian road sign amusing: http://i.imgur.com/GAdlYEM.jpg
nubbins`: (literal translation of french: "men's holes on the students")
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.0005184 = 7.8278 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: punkman: but, tell me this, what was the rationale for nuking the random rpc pw generator thing ?
punkman: asciilifeform: not particularly needed is it?
asciilifeform: imho it was precisely the correct thing. i don't use remote rpc, i don't give a fuck what the pw is so long as it can't be guessed
punkman: can put it back
asciilifeform: and i don't relish having to create it manually on every new machine
asciilifeform: punkman: well, not necessarily put it back, but think of whether there might be a more elegant pill
punkman: conf generator bash script that generates one?
asciilifeform: in that spirit.
asciilifeform: keep in mind that not all systems will have bash
asciilifeform: (iirc my pogo build does not)
asciilifeform: nor perl, etc
punkman: put it in makefile?
asciilifeform: i'm not even sure how to do this, other than in c, on a machine with no bash, perl, python, etc
asciilifeform: for now i'd just let that thing live
asciilifeform: other nitpick: the removal of the wx cruft is spiffy - it was next on my personal list. but i'd replace InitMessage with fprintf(FOO, ..... with FOO equalling stdout by default. this is because we might one day have a device with a character lcd screen, or teletype, or whatnot, and preserving the semantics of 'this is an init message' isn't entirely useless
punkman: InitMessage already had printf next to it
asciilifeform: what a crock of shit this thing was, from day 1...
punkman: perhaps some things that go to stderr currently, should also go to debug log
asciilifeform: ideally it'd all go to debug.log
punkman: it's still a mess, will need debug_sanity_part2.patch
asciilifeform: what's in that one ?
punkman: nothing yet
asciilifeform: and what's the deal with removing ShrinkDebugFile ?
punkman: I remember people complaining about that
asciilifeform: it needs to be switchable off, yes
asciilifeform: but if it is absent entirely, log will fill disk
punkman: if you wanna logrotate, there's logrotate?
asciilifeform: one more MB of shit for pogo rom ?
punkman: ok so I'll resubmit with those two back in
asciilifeform: better solution is loglevels
asciilifeform: max retains all, as your version does
asciilifeform: min produces no log whatsoever
asciilifeform: this one was on my list.
asciilifeform: but i'm very much behind with my list.
punkman: what's inbetween min/max?
asciilifeform: the replacement of various 'if debug ...'-isms
asciilifeform: these are to be displayed on max, but not on 'normal'
punkman: if(fDebug) is not used much though
asciilifeform: was gonna add verbosity in various spots, also, for 'max'
asciilifeform: still, nice work punkman
asciilifeform: i was certain i'd have to do this bit of cleaning myself, and it is a pleasant surprise not having to
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-07-2015#1199135 << wouldjabelieve i played the whole series ~BUT~ for 9 and 'Online' ?
assbot: Logged on 13-07-2015 08:11:27; mircea_popescu: supposedly ultima online was major. i never really got into the series.
asciilifeform: yes, especially loved the 1980s (commodore-64!) through '5'
asciilifeform: but i never got into mmporgs at all. what sort of game is it where player is not the hero!
asciilifeform: i can sorta picture the appeal of eulora, by imagining it as a kind of animated #b-a
asciilifeform: but items like 'ultima online' never got me hot&bothered
solrodar: asciilifeform: hello again, did you get my links above?
asciilifeform: solrodar: aha
asciilifeform: where's the recipe?
solrodar: at the top of the script
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu as soon as somebody reports a successful replication of solrodar's recipe, imho he ought get the prize
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: where's the link?
assbot: Logged on 13-07-2015 00:02:06; solrodar: asciilifeform: http://178.62.64.22/dot-filter.py and http://178.62.64.22/bitcoin.sexpr
solrodar: the latter being the output of the former
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-07-2015#1199110 << re: banks, they are a furniture in the jail. so i apply solzhenitsyn's formula, 'НЕ верь, НЕ бойся, НЕ проси' - don't trust, don't fear, don't ask anything of it.
assbot: Logged on 13-07-2015 07:35:15; mircea_popescu: nobody has "any trust" of the theoretical verbal kind in banks, then they go use them 100%
punkman: worthy to note that greece always had huge cash economy
asciilifeform: some folks have the meatwot to avoid or mostly avoid fiat banks. (a few of them here, iirc.) good for them.
asciilifeform: punkman: so does usa
asciilifeform: but not everybody gets to be part of it.
asciilifeform: solrodar: there is information loss in your s-expression output.
asciilifeform: in particular, i have no idea how many times function x calls y
asciilifeform: nor do the 'edges' specify in what direction goes the flow
asciilifeform: (is this standardized and implicit ?)
solrodar: the order is source and destination
asciilifeform: aha thx
asciilifeform: then this is usable.
punkman: are those nodes the filtered ones?
asciilifeform: looks like it
solrodar: yes, and overloads and template expansions have been merged into single nodes
solrodar: if you don't want that then you can comment out the call to merge_overloads
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-07-2015#1199113 << there is an interesting caveat, which is that land prices in the nato reich are proclaimed 'too big to fail' in the sense that they will never be permitted to fall into where a schmuck can buy a serious land holding
assbot: Logged on 13-07-2015 07:39:32; mircea_popescu: it's probably coming out of land values.
asciilifeform: e.g., near where i live there is baltimore, md. a city where there are 5k usd plots of land. but i go and try to buy, and learn that it comes with a $maxint obligation to clean, build, guard...
asciilifeform: fuck that
asciilifeform: but logic suggests that if it were not for this 'small print', it'd be the same 200k as in washington
asciilifeform: in that sense, all cheap real estate is a mirage. if it could be had for $smallint, a speculator would already own it.
asciilifeform: (a large, industrial speculator, that is)
mod6: punkman: thanks for your patch submission!
mod6: I tried to patch it in as it says in your email, but hit a snag in src/wallet.cpp -- any idea what might be going wrong here? : http://dpaste.com/24ZM2S0.txt
punkman: mod6: try adding a newline at end of .patch file
mod6: there alredy was one there. i can add a new one, but then ofc your sha1 wont match. no worries, will try.
punkman: mail client ate last line which was part of diff context
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28278 @ 0.00051208 = 14.4806 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: ok, so there is an 0a at the end of the file. tail doens't show it, but when I open it in ViM it's there... weird!: dpaste.com/0F8R1VJ.txt
jurov: punkman: just resend it with another mail client
punkman: I'll send new one with asciilifeform's suggestions
mod6: alright, cool. thx!
punkman: mod6, when you have a moment, could you have a look at my_snprintf, strprintf and error() in util.cpp? do we need all that?
mod6: punkman: yeah, sure. i'll take a closer look at it here in just a bit. that work?
mod6: might be better to use `diff -uNr a b` on your changes as opposed to `git --diff` too.
mod6: or `diff --git` w/e.
mod6: makes it /slightly/ easier to read.
mod6: i have no idea why (as a lot of things in this code) this is done: btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.h#0080
mod6: so getting rid of that and just calling vsnprintf looks fine to me.
mod6 looks at others.
punkman: mod6: that's the output of "git diff -p" command. I don't see any differences besides the "index d91d969..6b38259 100644" sections.
mod6: if nothing else could you try with `git diff -pU`?
jurov: mod6 i happen to know exactly why _vsnprintf, it's windowsism
mod6: the main annoying thing here is that we see (ex): @@ -77,7 +72,6 @@ T* alignup(T* p)
mod6: type of stuff
mod6: jurov: ahh, ok didn't know that.
assbot: vsnprintf - C++ Reference ... ( http://bit.ly/1gxiRPC )
jurov: wanted to use snprintf in a win school project, had to call it as _snprintf
mod6: yeah, `man 3 printf`
jurov: never did further research why m$ did this
jurov: neither did satoshi, apparently :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53650 @ 0.0005184 = 27.8122 BTC [+]
mod6: punkman: your changes to strprintf, error and my_snprintf to utilize vsnprintf directly look fine. I see in FormatException you changed snprintf to my_snprintf, which is apparently designed to be "safer".
mod6: Looks related to this: Concerning the return value of snprintf(), SUSv2 and C99 contradict each other: when snprintf() is called with size=0 then SUSv2 stipulates an unspecified return value less than 1, while C99 allows str to be NULL in this case, and gives the
mod6: return value (as always) as the number of characters that would have been written in case the output string has been large enough. SUSv3 and later align their specification of snprintf() with C99.
mod6: Is that the rationale there?
punkman: mod6, I just thought I'd remove some useless #defines, I got absolutely no clue what's going on there
mod6: looks like error(const std::string &&format, ...) does the same gyrations as around _vsnprintf/vsnprintf as my_snprintf. which is kinda strange. my_snprintf must have been added later.
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/util.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1SjtQYu )
mod6: and strprintf (http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.cpp#0205) except it checks (ret >= 0 && ret < limit) as well as a few other things.
mod6: !up ascii_field
mod6: punkman: the change from calling snprintf to calling my_snprintf (which inturn calls vsnprintf) might be a good change. but unless we know why we're doing it, maybe we should just leave that alone.
mod6: (in FormatException)
ascii_field: ben_vulpes, trinque, other apple users: http://www.lispworks.com/images/lw-ide-cocoa.png << apparently they have lower prices now. if you're still into commercial lisps
ascii_field: ('lispworks ltd.')
ascii_field: ^ firm was once infamous for charging royalties on runtime (!!!) for commercial apps. apparently no more.
thestringpuller: ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3d4gbu/no_we_dont_we_dont_owe_you_anything/ << more hippie talk of hippies saying "Bitcoin will make poor people rich social justic and income inequality"
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: punkman: also, there is a commandline option for -logtimestamps so maybe just leave fLogTimestamps = false;
mod6: why are boost/function.hpp and wallet.h added to headers.h ?
ascii_field: mod6: they used to be in noui.h
mod6: Ah!
mod6: ok.
assbot: scrimrot comments on "No we don't. We don't owe you anything." ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sjv8CS )
mod6: so other than what I said above about keeping FormatException the same, and leaving fLogTimestamps = false, and asciilifeforms' notes above, looks pretty good :]
mod6: thanks for putting effort into cleaning this stuff up.
PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-07-2015#1199256 << maybe have two config options, one that determines which things go into log file (min/normal/max) and another option which limits how big that file can get?
assbot: Logged on 13-07-2015 14:42:16; asciilifeform: and what's the deal with removing ShrinkDebugFile ?
punkman: mod6: what kind of insane person doesn't timestamp logs?
ascii_field: thestringpuller: the obsession with 'fair' is interesting - psychiatrically
mod6: punkman: my thoughts too.
mod6: but if we /always/ want them in there, maybe we should remove the commandline flag.
punkman: yeah forgot to remove that, will do
mod6: phf: thanks for your submission be aware that this exists : http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.h#0046
assbot: Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/util.h ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAnhz6 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54400 @ 0.00051166 = 27.8343 BTC [-]
phf: mod6: ah good to know. i'll resubmit, not sure how my patch interacts with recent changes from punkman yet
punkman: punkman: the change from calling snprintf to calling my_snprintf << there was a "#define snprintf my_snprintf" before, which I removed
mod6: phf: yah was just about to say, maybe wait until he submits his, then you can apply yours on top.
phf: it might be worthwhile to replace all those printfs with syslog(3) calls, specifically introducing the priority as the first argument, i.e. LOG_ALERT, LOG_WARNING, LOG_DEBUG. maybe have it conditional compilation, so that real bitcoin instance will log to syslog, where's debug instance will still write to file
mod6: punkman: ah, ok.
mod6: i see that now. that's fine then.
mod6: thx
phf: this will also let us remove dodgy log rotation and management functionality altogether
mod6: sounds nice, but im wary about relying on outside daemons
mod6: ben_vulpes, ascii_field, et. al. anyone have any other thoughts on this ^^
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
assbot: Logged on 13-07-2015 14:42:55; punkman: if you wanna logrotate, there's logrotate?
mod6: ah, thx.
phf: ascii_field: we seem to agree on loglevels, but what's your take on feeding logs into syslog?
ascii_field: phf: i'm biased in the direction of rolling functionality ~into~ bitcoind, rather than ~out~ to unixland
phf: understood
punkman: I just added a -shrinkdebug option
ascii_field: i'll let others comment. maybe i'm wrong about this one
ascii_field: and log rotation, etc. ought to happen in separate proggies
punkman: doesn't pogo have logrotate or anything already?
ascii_field: but keep in mind that the thing needs to work on machines with no perl, no bash, etc
ascii_field: punkman: not afaik
punkman: what does it do with logs?
ascii_field: iirc it has none
mod6: :D
punkman: so shall I remove -logtimestamps?
phf: i think libc's syslog facility tries to pass messages to syslog and if the daemon is not running, they go into /dev/console instead
phf: but i think the easiest option is to adopt syslog interface (since they already have a reasonable list of priority tags), make it go to debug.log by default, and then interested parties can just do #define log syslog
nubbins`: people seem to think fair means "everyone has the same things"
nubbins`: but that's rarely, if ever, fair
ben_vulpes: wb nubbins`
nubbins`: fair generally means "people have vastly different quantity and quality of things"
ben_vulpes: phf: i'd rather not have compilation involved in configuring logs.
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: the debug.log thing is horrendous imho
punkman: ben_vulpes: agreed, I'd like to make the log more parsable
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i'm all ears re: an alternative that doesn't turn my 5MB pogo rom into 10
nubbins`: jesus that reddit diatribe was rough
ben_vulpes: great big screaming steamer of "i cannot reason about this system"
trinque: I'm sure my cats would have things to say about fair if I stopped feeding them.
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: turn it off on the pogo. they're fire and forget, are they not?
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: thing is, i like cutting code. but i dislike inserting dependencies on complicated unixisms like autorotators.
ascii_field: i also dislike increasing the subset of libc we use
trinque: what about a signal for it to close and reopen the log, and then people can do whatever they please outside it?
ben_vulpes: is disabling logs on the pogo not an adequate solution for you?
trinque: (I'm not aware of whether it already has this)
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: no.
ascii_field: i want log on mine, for example.
phf: ascii_field: autorotators exist because people don't know how to syslog mostly. i.e. you build a syslog demon based on the constraints of your system, i.e. on pogo might just be busybox's syslog, that does rudimentary truncation. elsewhere syslog writes to postgresql or whatever
phf: not running any syslog daemon turns it into fire and forget, so you won't get any logs unless you are physically connected to console
ascii_field: again this is entirely logical except that it creates a new dependency
ascii_field: i.e. one more thing i'd have to reimplement for msdos or bare-metal port.
ben_vulpes: can we get the best of both worlds? eg log to standard debug.log if unconfigured, syslog if configured?
trinque: you could have the best of both by having it just fart messages out stdout and stderr, then attaching it to something like svlogd if/when you want that in a file
trinque: ^ my usual setup when running services with runit
trinque: dat unix philosophy
ben_vulpes: also logging is a pretty low priority ticket. if it looks better, has more information, is less braindamaged, is more consistent, great. does not deserve major surgery atm imho.
ben_vulpes: "ticket"
ben_vulpes still booting
assbot: Did Mike Hearn work in SIGINT? Does he now? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1HY5wvQ )
punkman: ben_vulpes: I disagree, how the hell are we supposed to debug with insane logs?
trinque: "But if so, he'd be the least well hidden operative ever." << lol
trinque: yes because you as a reddit user know what an operative looks like
trinque: having watched many movies on the subject
ascii_field: https://archive.is/nAitN << archive-d. somebody wanna deedbot this ?
assbot: Mike Hearn - Binding to a specified symbol version ... ( http://bit.ly/1HY5MLg )
trinque: sure
deedbot-: accepted: 1
assbot: Mike Hearn - Binding to a specified symbol version ... ( http://bit.ly/1HY6pEO )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
trinque: both direct and as seen by archive.is
nubbins`: !up ascii_field
felipelalli: is gribble down?
ascii_field: 'Disconnected by services' << ???
ascii_field: qntra also down ?
assbot: Down For Everyone Or Just Me -> Check if your website is down or up? ... ( http://bit.ly/1HYak4v )
felipelalli: !8ball
felipelalli: gribble seems sick.
felipelalli: ;;8ball
felipelalli: nothing.
gribble: I doubt it very much.
felipelalli: ah! up again.
ben_vulpes: punkman: i'm not advocating insane logs, i'm just saying pretty it up and make it consistent but perhaps we don't waste too much time arguing about syslog and logrotation at precisely this moment?
ben_vulpes: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: actually sane logs are rather essential for other work
ben_vulpes: i'm not arguing against sane logs!
ben_vulpes: out of curiosity, what is 'other work'?
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: say, figuring out how long it takes to verify block N
ascii_field: would be neat if i could learn this from looking at timestamps
ben_vulpes: ah indeed
ascii_field: or say i wanna pipe my node's log to a thermal printer.
ben_vulpes: eatblock doesn't provide for that?
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: eatblock returns immediately
ascii_field: (iirc the process is asynchronous.)
ben_vulpes: relatedly, i'm always amazed at how `getinfo' blocks on...something.
ascii_field: prolly the innumerable 'critical section' nonsense
phf: ascii_field: i don't think that's the case. i changed block processing to return false when the block is bastard, and eatblock started returning false for those.
ascii_field: phf: post patch ?
ascii_field: in other nyooz,
ascii_field: 'Trend Micro Threat Intelligence Manager installs a secure web interface (httpd.exe, tcp port 443/https) which listens for incoming requests. Several vulnerabilities have been found in the product that would allow a remote attacker to cause the product to execute arbitrary code.'
trinque: lol!
trinque: yet they called it a "secure web interface"
assbot: ProxyHam anonymising router project mysteriously closed down - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/1GhOp0F )
ascii_field: ^ seems to be a modernization of the ancient 'gold box'
assbot: Gold box (phreaking) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GhOwt4 )
ascii_field: pretty snoreworthy idea, but apparently hamhandedly desaparecido by usg
ascii_field: and now famous as result.
ascii_field: 'Effective immediately, we are halting further dev on #proxyham and will not be releasing any further details or source for the device... Existing #proxyham units will be disposed of and no longer be made available at @_defcon_'
ascii_field: 'it appears that his hand was forced – legally – complete with gags and destruction orders.'
assbot: Privacy talk at DEF CON canceled under questionable circumstances | CSO Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1HYc5yq )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20030 @ 0.0005184 = 10.3836 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-07-2015#1198964 << the 'open source chinese phones' thing is a complete snorefest. wake me up when street urchins can fab even a, e.g., z80
assbot: Logged on 12-07-2015 22:24:39; *: jurov expects asciilifeform to shoot holes in it ^
ascii_field: any moron can get a pinout.
assbot: Logged on 12-07-2015 22:52:47; phf: jurov: bunnie's mostly famous for reverse engineering first xbox http://hackingthexbox.com, and recently designing novena laptop
jurov: z80 is closed source turd, too, no?
ascii_field: perhaps the ultimate joke. yet another schmuck helping to redefine what 'open' means, to the peanut gallery
ascii_field: jurov: not if you can read ru!
punkman: "Designed to augment existing privacy tools, ProxyHam is a Raspberry Pi computer with Wi-Fi enabled." << gag order for this??
ascii_field: punkman: not like usg considers the question 'is this trivial to make' before they gag
ascii_field: for all we know, usg just finished installing 900Mhz intercept network and now is banking on 'streisand effect' to get us to use it.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-07-2015#1198976 << the point i'm trying to make is that 'open' design is meaningless if it cannot be made, or, once made, verified at reasonable expense
assbot: Logged on 12-07-2015 22:31:52; jurov: but anyway, what i'm interested in, that maybe really 10nm fab is not needed and lesser process would suffice
ascii_field: in that sense jurov is right, all microprocessors ever made are 'closed source'
jurov: what russians did with z80 was not "reasonable expense"
ascii_field: jurov has it.
ascii_field idly wonders how big z80 would be if turned into discrete ttl
ascii_field: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/MXCHIP/MICO/master/MICO/Library/RF%20driver/wlan_firmware.c << and ~here~ is an example of what chinese consider to be 'open source'.
punkman: verified at reasonable expense << can you ever verify SoC in jungle conditions?
punkman: or back to wirewrap?
ascii_field: why wirewrap ?
ascii_field: solder.
mod6: haha @ wlan_firmware.c
nubbins`: nasty magenta print head clog
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30670 @ 0.00052756 = 16.1803 BTC [+]
nubbins`: turns out it's an issue with the cartridge in the CIS kit
nubbins`: or so they say, anyway
nubbins`: replacement part otw
punkman: ascii_field: solder, sure. what's the most complicated component we can verify in jungle? (is there previous thread?)
ascii_field: other thing is, items like z80 or rom of ~known vintage~ can be considered 'verifiable' in a weaker sense of the word
ascii_field: stockpile ~now~
ascii_field: not 5 years from now when the fakes are stamped out by the millions.
punkman: ttl?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
punkman: oh nm, found it
trinque: ascii_field: might be cool to get a rough list of interesting historic artifacts from you sometime
ascii_field: trinque: what is interesting to one is just old junk to another.
ascii_field: but i like the idea of owning a lifetime's supply of non-nato cpu.
punkman: ascii_field: so btc node on some kind of cray-sized monstrosity?
ascii_field: doubtful
ascii_field: in other news,
ascii_field: arm a9, 256M ram, video, usb; $12 or so in qty. 1 from cn
ascii_field: but afaik there is no (public) linux port
ascii_field: these are sold as 'miracast wireless hdmi receiver'
ascii_field: 802.11 built in
mats: I have one like it
ascii_field: mats: ported linux to it ?
mats: ran openelec on it
mats: nope
ascii_field: the included one, afaik, does not support the usb port
trinque: pretty cool
ascii_field: which is the only means of adding storage
ascii_field: (whether it even is usb2, is unknown to me)
ascii_field: if yes, this can run a node
ascii_field: and is price-comparable with pogo
ascii_field: and available in qty. MAXINT
assbot: Acer AerialCast Miracast Adapter Powered by Realtek RTD1185PA + RTL8192DV ... ( http://bit.ly/1CC7Fel )
ascii_field: apparently these are rather plentiful
trinque: https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Realtek << looks like that realtek chip speaks usb2.0
assbot: Realtek - WikiDevi ... ( http://bit.ly/1CC83t9 )
trinque: so there's some hope
trinque: the one on the xda link, I mean.
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-07-2015#1199544 << not the kind of "replacement part" I usually hear about in regards to a "CIS kit"
assbot: Logged on 13-07-2015 19:39:41; nubbins`: replacement part otw
assbot: E6 Wireless Display Dongle Miracast HDMI WiFi Display TV Stick Black ... ( http://bit.ly/1CC93h7 )
ascii_field: slightly costlier than pogo; comparable specs; would need a mechanical adapter for usb drive
ascii_field: user would have to plug the thing into a tv set to configure 802.11
ascii_field: i suppose it could display a spiffy graphical representation of blockchain, etc.
ascii_field: because, after all, has video jack
ascii_field: http://www.cnx-software.com/tag/mini-pc/page/30 << buncha material re: these machines.
assbot: mini-pc | Page 30 ... ( http://bit.ly/1CC9qrK )
nubbins`: danielpbarron 8)
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
thestringpuller: ascii_field: keep your css fingers off my bitcoins
ascii_field: none of these things have rtc, i must note.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29557 @ 0.00051166 = 15.1231 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: thestringpuller: you can have the thing display 'screensaver' kaleidoscope if you like.
ascii_field: just, if you have vga, why not use.
nubbins`: pipe log to it 8)
trinque: I'm a sucker for cool viz
ascii_field: but the point stands - after several months of on and off searching, i did find a box which 1) is less than 2x cost of 'pogo' 2) very close in cpu and has NOT LESS ram than pogo 3) available in virtually unlimited quantities for the foreseeable future
ascii_field: on top of this, 4) from multiple competing vendors
nubbins`: toldja
ascii_field: it still remains to be seen 1) whether a sane linux port is possible for these 2) whether usb flash, of reasonable cost, can keep up - on these boxes - with blockchain.
ascii_field: and 3) whether these can be configured by users without resorting to black magic,
nubbins`: still, a promising sign
ascii_field: anyone who tries this - write in.
nubbins`: !s force-052-050.pdf
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9309 @ 0.00052756 = 4.9111 BTC [+]
ascii_field: nubbins`: search is down
nubbins`: then i apologize if repost
assbot: Logged on 13-07-2015 04:24:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://cryptome.org/2015/07/force-052-050.pdf << carl force confiscations
ascii_field: ^ thread
kakobrekla: search down but alf still works.
nubbins`: order of forfeiture listing btc addresses, wonder if that's a first?
ascii_field: nah that was in the earlier one
nubbins`: couple minor lels:
nubbins`: "49.999 BTC in 1YCMDxDoYwRApGjyoPVi5onrN8JRLt383;"
nubbins`: sent 50btc, took tx fee out of it
nubbins`: later learned his lesson:
nubbins`: "400.00101 BTC in 14QPeQ2UZaMw9khqQeisVNT54j6A3U5KfE;"
nubbins`: wow, typos in THREE of the listed addresses?
trinque: I'll never be able to understand how someone working for an entity with a goddamn NSA thought he'd get away with it.
trinque: the whole thing stinks of bullshit
ascii_field bought a few of these boxes, of different makes
ascii_field: for subscribers of 'amazon', if you go for hong kong you can get one of the clones for ~$6 each (incl postage)
phf: ascii_field: novena's "open" is identity thing. kind of like "maker" means a person who buys lego pieces from adafruit website and then connects them using a tutorial. it just means that the buying demographic are the same people who have a handful of o'reilly books and run ubuntu
assbot: Donald Trump Calls in FBI Over Death Threats Involving El Chapo | TMZ.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1O1Nxmr )
ascii_field: phf: aha
ascii_field: phf: 'make magazine disease'
ascii_field: phf: meanwhile, actual-open disappeared as a thing from the world
ascii_field: and perhaps a dozen people noticed.
nubbins`: perhaps a dozen cared to begin with
nubbins`: actually cared, not "signed this change.org petition" cared
ascii_field: the rest will only contemplate 'caring' when the dildoes stop buzzing
mod6: !up ascii_field
phf: well, it was a recent mp thread, that i'm going to butcher, since i don't grok it fully yet, but it was something about how presence of the word already indicates the failure of described concept
ascii_field: aha, sorta like if it were usual for a bakery to advertise 'shit-free bread'
phf: "doesn't contain asbestos!"
assbot: Canadian embassy used as safe haven during Ukraine uprising, investigation finds - Politics - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1O1OYRX )
assbot: Arseniy Yatsenyuk, Stephen Harper to sign Canada-Ukraine trade deal Tuesday - Politics - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1O1P5wI )
ascii_field: what do the urks intend to sell ?
ascii_field: stray dogs, for soap ?
ascii_field: themselves, idem ?
punkman: babies to all the new gay families?
punkman: oh wait it has been legal for a while in canada?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
trinque: ascii_field: lol @ the "bad exit node" whack-a-mole
ascii_field: i especially love how nobody suspects the isp
ascii_field: who could just as easily be the one to have fallen into the honeypot 'fake btc exchange login'
ascii_field: or the sheer militant idiocy in proclaiming the other exits innocent (by implication)
assbot: Introducing new Bitcoin Mixer/Tumbler: PayShield by Sigaint : onions ... ( http://bit.ly/1HE0caB )
punkman: Signed, SIGAINT Administration, Ministry of Darknet Finance
trinque: "guys look we're fighting the good fight against teh fedz! also pls to be using our tumbler!"
trinque: uh huh.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26897 @ 0.00053586 = 14.413 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: nubbins` ^
ascii_field: and other 'it is not illegal to get a parcel with dope' folks ^
cazalla: i actually found the guy on steam, waiting for him to come online to ask if he confessed under duress (i don't really expect much of an answer)
ascii_field: typically, being accused is duress enough
punkman: "confess and you only get community service"
ascii_field: just same now as in inquisition 500 yrs ago.
ascii_field: 'confess and you get penance'
trinque: I remember being taught that the evil USSR forced confessions...
ascii_field: no more and no less than the example here.
trinque: yep, wondering aloud where this "good" other side might be
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-07-2015#1198641 << looks like this one was made for the occasion. student l0lpr0ject?
punkman: ascii_field, was it a direct submission?
assbot: The Sh&#156;string Foundation Weblog ... ( http://bit.ly/1M72vtT )
ascii_field: punkman: it appears to be in the sks data set
ascii_field: how it got there, is anyone's guess
punkman: ^ someone found Joe before
ascii_field: ^ does anyone have evidence that this text existed prior to may 20 ?
punkman: wayback machine has it
assbot: The Bin ... ( http://bit.ly/1K4BxzP )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55653 @ 0.00053068 = 29.5339 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: "Peter Palfrader supplied us with the key" << maybe ask this guy for some more keydumps
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66347 @ 0.0005111 = 33.91 BTC [-]
assbot: Josh Wieder: Wikileaks Global Intelligence File Dump is Loaded With Malicious Software ... ( http://bit.ly/1M73muP )
trinque: very interesting.
trinque: "As of this writing (3PM @ 7-13-2015) Wikileaks continues to provide a torrent file with an identical timestamp, filename and byte size as the one I analyzed without any warning message notifying users of the danger of handling the files."
assbot: [1303.7476] Conspiratorial cosmology - the case against the Universe ... ( http://bit.ly/1M74yOL )
trinque: side note of... people gotta learn to UTC or specify time zone on the internet
pete_dushenski: "Based on the cosmological results of the Planck Mission, we show that all parameters describing our Universe within the \Lambda CDM model can be constructed from a small set of numbers known from conspiracy theory. Our finding is confirmed by recent data from high energy particle physics. This clearly demonstrates that our Universe is a plot initiated by an unknown interest group or lodge. We analyse possible
pete_dushenski: scenarios for this conspiracy, and conclude that the belief in the existence of our Universe is an illusion, as previously assumed by ancient philosophers, 20th century science fiction authors and contemporary film makers."
pete_dushenski is reading the paper now
punkman: " Journal of Comparative Irrelevance"
trinque: heh!
pete_dushenski: it's a joke ?
punkman: doesn't seem to exist unfortunately
pete_dushenski: sure it does.
pete_dushenski: it's just called 'journal of epidemiology'
pete_dushenski: or 'journal of behavioural economics'
pete_dushenski: same concept.
trinque: April 1, 2013
trinque: also copyright "dada" may be part of the joke
assbot: lol my thesis ... ( http://bit.ly/1M74X3w )
pete_dushenski: someone's excited to be here :)
mircea_popescu: what's new ?
pete_dushenski: it's hot as shit here. 30C+
mircea_popescu: very pleasant 12ish here
pete_dushenski: a bit cool, but really quite livable for the south's 'january'
mircea_popescu: yeh i have no comp;laints
pete_dushenski: also, i just brought back the old skool razr phone into service
pete_dushenski: it's insanely cool.
punkman: 12c, are they all wearing heavy coats and furs now?
pete_dushenski: the razr really makes me wonder why people with laptops or desktops would have 'smartphones'
mircea_popescu: punkman like you wouldn't believe
pete_dushenski: is there an argentinian equivalent to the canadian 'toque' ?
mircea_popescu: everyone's office in microcentro is like, you know, 1/4 mile away at most, i usually go around in a suit. you'd think i'm in swimming trunks for the looks teh women give out.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski iirc that's a roman thing. but they wear coats and gloves and shit, it's ridiculous.
pete_dushenski: i seem to recall that women covering their heads the way we think 'muslims' do is in fact a byzantine tradition, but not sure about the men.
punkman: ;;ud toque
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=toque | toque. the ultimate in high Canadian fashion. worn year round whether it's cold or warm outside. and yes it does get warm in Canada! "I never leave the house ...
mircea_popescu: eastern, i think it predates the byzantines
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu makes sense
assbot: Heinz forced to apologise after QR code on ketchup bottle linked to hardcore porn site - News - Food and Drink - The Independent ... ( http://bit.ly/1M75ZwA )
pete_dushenski: baahhahah
pete_dushenski: too cheap to register the domain name for as long as the product isn't expired.
punkman: does Heinz even expire?
trinque: "Taking advantage of the free advertising, Fundorado also comment on the photo, and offered Korell a free year's subscription." << epic lols
pete_dushenski: punkman even if it doesn't, they still have to list one by law
pete_dushenski: not like kraft singles ever go bad either, still have label requirements
pete_dushenski: "Newly released records show the federal [canadian] revenue agency has written off at least $4 billion in debts in the last two years"
pete_dushenski: "The outstanding balance in undisputed, unpaid taxes was $29 billion as of March 31, 2012"
punkman: was it loans to Greece?
pete_dushenski: probably just canadian greeks using their deferred tax payments to buy real estate on mykonos 'while it's cheap' and getting roasted
punkman: there is no real eastate on mykonos
pete_dushenski: thus the scam!
mircea_popescu: ;;buy mykonos real estate invest business serious professional scholar
gribble: Error: 'mykonos' is not a valid positive floating point number.
mircea_popescu: ;;google buy mykonos real estate invest business serious professional scholar
gribble: Why You Should Be Investing Your Money In Real Estate: <http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/228506>; Investing in Commercial Real Estate - Entrepreneur: <http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/196042>; Real estate investing vs. buying a business (tenant, 7 ...: <http://www.city-data.com/forum/real-estate/1362608-real-estate-investing-vs-buying-business.html>
punkman: heh
assbot: Rapper 50 Cent Files for Bankruptcy - Bankruptcy Beat - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1M76NBx )
punkman: worth what it says on tin ^
punkman: not bad
pete_dushenski: i guess his little cameo in 'spy' didn't cut the escalade-flavoured mustard
punkman: "he was supposed to appear in a New York state court to determine whether he owes punitive damages in a 2010 lawsuit filed by Lastonia Leviston, rapper Rick Ross’s ex-girlfriend"
punkman: more sextape
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-07-2015#1199704 << he used ordinary sks, as far as i can tell.
assbot: Logged on 13-07-2015 22:39:20; punkman: "Peter Palfrader supplied us with the key" << maybe ask this guy for some more keydumps
asciilifeform: quite enough keys 'to eat with one's arse'
punkman: asciilifeform: historical copies might also be interesting
asciilifeform: punkman: theoretically, keys are never removed
asciilifeform: finding this, alone, would be newsworthy
asciilifeform: (that is, evidence that any historical copies are anything other than subsets of the current snapshot)
punkman: would be interesting to diff 2004 sks dump with 2015
asciilifeform: keys that are altered or missing would be insta-newz.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55399 @ 0.00052554 = 29.1144 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: if anybody in my wot has such a snapshot - please write in.
punkman: "Going forward, Greece will have to stash its assets in a specially created fund and prepare them for sale “under the supervision of the relevant European Institutions,” “That may include buildings, possible areas of land, and even islands,” he says."
punkman: "To protect the natural, historical and archaeological value of such real estate, Greece would need to pass laws and empower oversight bodies to make sure that “the new owner does not abuse or damage the property,” "
asciilifeform: rapetime, aha
punkman: "The idea of selling the Acropolis came up early in Greece’s debt crisis. In 2010, two conservative German lawmakers caused a furor in Greece by suggesting that ancient ruins should not be off limits to privatization. "
mircea_popescu: so the euros do not wish the russians to buy this ?
mircea_popescu: neways, after all the "dignity" talk, are these supposed people of greece actually beheading the politicos in front of the temple ? or ?
punkman: oh no, they already said Tsipras should stop talking to Putin, the Enemy of All Things European
mircea_popescu: "we had a referendum, said no. you agreed with the euros. here's your death sentence. it covers your parents and offspring"
mircea_popescu: beheading five year olds similarly should not be off limits, what's zee german conservatives say ?
mircea_popescu: rich cultural heritage and all that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64456 @ 0.0005038 = 32.4729 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: i suppose dignity's a lot like property, erryone's more than happy to claim it for as long as it's free.
asciilifeform: they behead, the trucks full of freebies stop coming.
punkman: no time for dignity now, have to work on penance
asciilifeform: and other trucks come instead
mircea_popescu: dude, but the dignitit.
asciilifeform: it isn't even a forebrain syllogism, they know this with their arse
asciilifeform: just like the rest of the 'civilized' world
asciilifeform: and, esp., its outskirts
mircea_popescu: i'd do it, honestly.
asciilifeform: easy, when you don't need the 'normality' for anything.
mircea_popescu: not nearly enough beheaded politicos in a whole decade to pay for one single week.
punkman: we kinda run out of terrorist in the last few years
punkman: *terrorists
trinque: shortages everywhere... *sigh*
pete_dushenski: except in syria
assbot: Revolutionary Organization 17 November - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1M77WsV )
mircea_popescu: aite, so then time to move the greeks off to the zoo.
asciilifeform: they were ever out of the zoo ?
mircea_popescu: last time i was in athens, these objectionable things were all over the acropolis, filling the cafes, pretending they're like human beings an' everything.
mircea_popescu: apparently i wasn't the only foreigner disgusted by the display.
asciilifeform: which ?
mircea_popescu: teh locals
pete_dushenski: http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/48967.html << 'Shoeshine boy trading club, China chapter' is a kid on... bitcoinwisdom
assbot: Chicago Boyz » Blog Archive » Sic Transit Gloria China ... ( http://bit.ly/1M782Rm )
pete_dushenski: bananacoin trader
punkman: looks shopped
trinque: screen is kinda bright for outside eh?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-07-2015#1199825 << not all greeks wanted to live in a natoreich zoo, aha.
trinque: otoh china is smoghell
mircea_popescu: punkman anyway, terrorism's useless for this purpose.
mircea_popescu: gotta convict them to be beheaded, along with the entire fambly, through plain legal proceedings.
mircea_popescu: then carry it out.
punkman: gonna be a long wait for that
mircea_popescu: i guess so.
punkman: the terrorists never did much anyway, firebomb here and there every few weeks for a while
punkman: very few casualties
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37701 @ 0.00053428 = 20.1429 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: iirc they killed some cia dude then tapered off after that
asciilifeform: (Official Truth holds that 'field manual 30-31b' is a ru forgery)
punkman: CIA station chief was their first one, then they killed some people in the 80s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46399 @ 0.00054175 = 25.1367 BTC [+] {4}
pete_dushenski: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 291.05, Best ask: 291.48, Bid-ask spread: 0.43000, Last trade: 291.28, 24 hour volume: 74167.38437043, 24 hour low: 281.5, 24 hour high: 312.0, 24 hour vwap: None
punkman: "the Baris journalist who had come into the possession of FM 30-31B disappeared and was never heard of again"
punkman: but it's totally a soviet forgery
asciilifeform: 'The Pentagon document first surfaced in Turkey in 1973 where the newspaper Baris in the midst of a whole range of mysterious acts of violence and brutality which shocked the Turkish society announced the publication of a secretive US document. Thereafter the Baris journalist who had come into the possession of FM 30-31B disappeared and was never heard of again. Despite the apparent danger Turkish Colonel Talat Turhan two year
asciilifeform: s later published a Turkish translation of the top-secret FM 30-31 and revealed that in Turkey NATO’s secret stay-behind army was codenamed “Counter-Guerrilla” directed by the Special Warfare Department. From Turkey the document found its way to Spain where in 1976 the newspaper Triunfo, despite heavy pressures to prevent the publication, published excerpts of FM 30-31B upon the fall of the Franco dictatorship. In Italy
asciilifeform: on 27 October 1978 excerpts of FM 30-31B were published by the political magazine L'Europeo, whereupon the printed issues of the magazine were confiscated. The breakthrough for the document came arguably not in the 1970s, but in the 1980s, when in Italy the secret anticommunist P2 Freemason lodge of Licio Gelli was discovered. Among the documents seized by the Italian police ranged also FM 30-31B. The Italian parliamentary inv
asciilifeform: estigation into P2 decided to publish FM 30-31B in the appendix of the final public parliamentary report on P2 in 1987.'
asciilifeform read the whole thing and observes that if it is a scam, it is a very high quality scam
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112852 @ 0.00054015 = 60.957 BTC [-]
trinque: someday... it's going to be either the longest or shortest trial there ever was
asciilifeform: who will try these folks? martians ?
asciilifeform: or 'the beoble' ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94600 @ 0.00054542 = 51.5967 BTC [+] {4}
trinque: who knows what the future will bring
mircea_popescu: nothing is ever more common than the delusional notion that "these people" will escape.
mircea_popescu: it hasn't yet occured to date anyone did escape.
mircea_popescu: yet it hasn't yet occured to date anyone skipped on the "impossibru" sauce, either.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> it hasn't yet occured to date anyone did escape. << if 'escape' means 'die of old age, not beheading, and pass throne to successor' than hardly any of 'these people' ever ~did not~ escape..
asciilifeform: am i thick or what. i dun get it
trinque: uk ruled the whole world; look at them now
trinque: from where I sit they got theirs
asciilifeform: anglos still rule their reich
asciilifeform: just a different branch of family tree
asciilifeform: smooth change of management, w/out skipping a beat
trinque: maybe so, and maybe someone will say that's still true of the next thing
mircea_popescu: someone will definitely say that.
mircea_popescu: easiest thing in the world to say, after all.
asciilifeform: ^ incidentally, this touches on what imho was the major reason for the appeal of the soviet offering in the 'turd world.'
asciilifeform: namely, that, whatever else could be said about it,
asciilifeform: no one could confuse it with the anglo offerings.
mircea_popescu: no shortage of the confused.
asciilifeform: who and where ?
assbot: JL: Entitlement Based Aggression ... ( http://bit.ly/1HEvcr1 )
mircea_popescu: "This has become the case with many white employees in retain food establishments who spend their shifts being harangued, threatened and demeaned by hate-spewing black customers who typically spend more on groceries in a visit than many retail food employees make in two weeks. Being a white employee in a city supermarket is like being a peasant on a medieval lord’s land."
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is this a race issue ?
mircea_popescu: servants getting uppity ffs.
mircea_popescu: guy's got money and you're the clerk. go suck his fucking cock omfg.
asciilifeform: because when the colours are reversed, 'omg111!!111!!1' r4c1sm!!
mircea_popescu: of course being an employee in a supermarket is being a peasant on a lord's land. that is EXACTLY what it is.
mircea_popescu: also exactly what it should be.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform heh mkay, let's fix stupid by being stupid the other way!!1
trinque: #killallmen
mircea_popescu: wtf's next, we're all equal to the supermarket bozo and #holdhands ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, petty supermarket hostility bs. guy has better posts imo.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86500 @ 0.00053767 = 46.5085 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i suppose he doesn't know this, but hey, his loss.
trinque: god damn that cat in the sandal is hilarious
trinque: 4th time opening it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30200 @ 0.00051702 = 15.614 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> anyway, petty supermarket hostility bs. guy has better posts imo. << Supermarket guy is rightly in a low place. Welafare orcs excessively elevated. It's this sort of mess that will take Aztalan all the way to Long Island.
mircea_popescu: i dunno dude, seems nuts to me. some derp wishes to justify his being an asshole to some woman on the grounds of wide reaching sociodynamics ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12015 @ 0.00052569 = 6.3162 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: what, he's a faitful soldier in the war of whitehood against the evil blacks through not holding the door to some woman ?
mircea_popescu: some people are born to die on plastic carpeting under fluorescent lights srsly.
BingoBoingo: Dude seems rather obviously nuts, but it seems a symptom of the larger American decay.
mircea_popescu: there was some random retard of equivalent potency i loled at the expense of on trilema. this one was on a trip about how he "is trying to live to the server's expectations" or some shit in a restaurant.
mircea_popescu: the issues people have in their own heads, when those heads are squarely devoid of anything worthwhile...
mircea_popescu: hanbot do you recall which article that was ?
asciilifeform: from my reading, this is one of those 'nouveau poor', if you will. the absolute most abjectly miserable thing to be in usistan.
mircea_popescu: FOR HIS SINS
mircea_popescu: he's supposed to go "i'm a fuckwad of a lifeform, and not only i deserve every bit of the shit i get, but if i keep course there's going to be more"
asciilifeform: folks with no experience of 'orcraft', of navigating that world, and having all the 'wrong' 'branded on the tongue' class markers, habits, etc. which set the buggers off
mircea_popescu: not this retarded "blacks made me be stupid and lousy" nonsense
mircea_popescu: asshole comes from a three generations line of jwz "i only wanted to...", and now he doesn't like the just dessers ?
mircea_popescu: fuck him.
mircea_popescu: should have beheaded tsipras when he had the chance.
asciilifeform: beheaded hamilton.
mircea_popescu: whosoever.
asciilifeform: (the actual plot of a famous 'alt-history' in usa)
mircea_popescu: lincoln, really, but anyway.
asciilifeform: 'the probability broach'
asciilifeform: was even turned into a comic book..
asciilifeform: http://www.bigheadpress.com/tpbtgn << now phree on publisher's www.
assbot: Big Head Press - Thoughtful Stories, Graphic Novels Online And In Print - The Probability Broach: The Graphic Novel, by L. Neil Smith and Scott Bieser ... ( http://bit.ly/1HZrrkg )
asciilifeform: pretty lulzy
BingoBoingo: Millions of noveau poor USians emerge from school every year disadvantaged because they went to "good" schools in the suburbs that insulated them from orcraft
mircea_popescu: i thought us supermarkets all have those sliding autodoors anyway, specifically to deal with the ever growing social awkwardness of usians.
trinque: sucks to be them; I went to those shitty suburban schools too
asciilifeform: doors - sop
asciilifeform: but the people still meet.
mircea_popescu: the fucking problems to have, seriously.
mircea_popescu: they're in kindergarten, there's no other way to look at it.
mircea_popescu: they're in kindergarten and they're whacking each other over the head with the cubes.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> they're in kindergarten and they're whacking each other over the head with the cubes. << Seriously can't even have a good riot
mircea_popescu: anyway, alf's point re the recent poor is well taken
mircea_popescu: what i don't understand is why do they take it out on the blacks ffs.
mircea_popescu: THEY are to blame, for having believed bush or whoever the fuck they believed.
trinque: because they're there, and different
trinque: nothing more
mircea_popescu: in any case, the blacks WERE THERE
asciilifeform: they will take it out on themselves once a hitler shows up to help with this process.
mircea_popescu: like, before. and for that matter, know the terrain a lot better.
mircea_popescu: i suppose these are the same typically retarded usians that go to india and blame the indians for their inability to dowhatever X they wish to do.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> what i don't understand is why do they take it out on the blacks ffs. << noveau poor envies the comforts of the old poor
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo has it
mircea_popescu: not like black dude cold-called you and persuaded you to be poor, motherfuckar!
mircea_popescu: it was your state senator, go talk to him.
asciilifeform: usa was a very different-flavoured place under the old white gov.
trinque: cowards, simple as that.
BingoBoingo: Mostly noveau poor lacks the refinement of the old poor which prevents them from going full orc and riding the welfare train
mircea_popescu: if white bitches spent more time learning how to twerk at age 6, perhaps anyone'd give a lot more of a shit about the problems of white trash.
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> hanbot do you recall which article that was ? < i apparently don't
trinque: americans are subconsciously terrified of their own govt
mircea_popescu: what, he's special or something ? can't fit a shoeshine box in his hands ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: not just. all sorts of bureaucratic gears won't turn for you if you have wrong face
trinque: they simultaneously derive some kind of self-esteem from this fact
trinque: so no, they're not going to lash out at the monster, just some weird looking guy if they run across one
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so don't hold open the door to THAT OFFICE then!
mircea_popescu: trinque or an incapacitated woman with children, why not
mircea_popescu: what's she gonna do, bleed on you ?
trinque: yeah
trinque: the louder my "countrymen" shout about nonsense the more I smell pissed pants
mircea_popescu: dude's such a public danger, why doesn't he go around at night through the ghetto bumping into derps and immitating anything they say!
mircea_popescu: (yes, i used to do that, at that age. it was fun, fwiww.)
trinque: why's every american an anxiety-ridden, pill-popping nutcase?
mircea_popescu: that's what i wanna know!
trinque: couldn't possibly be the unpredictable insanity of the economic system, or the brutal, violent govt
trinque: probably the black bitch
mircea_popescu: trinque, abbot, costello &mp
trinque: heh
hanbot: mircea_popescu scratch that, comments section of fried chicken: http://trilema.com/2013/fried-chicken/
assbot: Fried chicken on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HZsbWH )
mircea_popescu: hanbot oh right! i knew we had a lol at that thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116100 @ 0.00052869 = 61.3809 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ironically enough, with a beheaded hamilton the us would still to this day be a sort of congo.
mircea_popescu: the brief excursion into world relevancy of the shithole in question is wholly owed to hamilton & co.
mircea_popescu: the "evil bankers & capitalists"
mircea_popescu: true enough that it doesn't seem to last, congo is congo. but... it was a decent trip, for as long as it lasted.
punkman: I got a couple scamcalls from the Congo few months ago
punkman: no idea, didn't pick up in time, just saw them in logs
mircea_popescu: twist : punkman's half brother has been in prison in congo since feb
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i wonder if this is going to lead to a new musical genre off the old superhero comics tree. just like destitute niggers had their stupid gangsta shit.
mircea_popescu: christian glam rock bands singin' about how they don't hold doors open at supermarket
mircea_popescu: "whatever... i slam doors and i kill people! it's my hot country and i do what i want!"
trinque: there's some kind of shitty white supremacist "punk" I think
trinque: I've long wondered where all the supposed neonazis are; met one a while back and I think all he did was shoot guns and get tattoes
mircea_popescu: should make for some pretty easy enthusiastic teenage poon, if it ever takes off.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I don't see how it doesn't happen as I only anticipate the rape of white trash to increase.
mircea_popescu: i dunno... there really aren't that many blacks.
trinque: it's strange; there's something similar between the guy's door-holding and the utter lack of any dangerous subculture
trinque: as if all we can do is "act as if X"
trinque: somebody more well-read could identify what's malfunctioning in american identity-synthesis there
mircea_popescu: !s not a country
mircea_popescu: who was i having this discussion with ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sure, but there's going to be a lot more Chinese. It also really doesn't help the newer generations of white trash that they are ill equipped mentally, physically, and morally to cope.
trinque: mircea_popescu: yeah, what you said about a country being a place where young men know who they are, it's right on the mark
trinque: I considered that particular line for a long while after
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo on the positive side, all good things ever come out of an ill equipped kid stuck in a blender.
BingoBoingo: Of course.
kakobrekla: the timeout on the search is outrageous.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla mthreat said it's being moved to another server.
kakobrekla: aha, i had that particular http request in mind, but good to know
kakobrekla: 60 seconds, exactly.
mircea_popescu: trinque and that's what multiculturalism actually is, ftr. given that it is SO COMPLICATED to have a cultural superstructure that allows any semblance of passible solution to that, and given that any sort of formal proof of superiority and inferiority ~AMONG THAT SET~, strictly, strictly among that set is so hopeless,
mircea_popescu: you're way the fuck better off just letting everybody use their own answers than trying to force some sort of homogenity.
mircea_popescu: obviously you can't have "multiculturalism" among things that aren't even subcultures, let alone cultures in their own right.
mircea_popescu: but go explain to taleb why he should stop wearing the facial hair style he does. because why ? reasons ? he got reasons too.
BingoBoingo: ;;google knockout game
gribble: Knockout game - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout_game>; Man Punches Pregnant Woman In Brutal 'Knockout Game' Attack ...: <http://news.yahoo.com/man-punches-pregnant-woman-brutal-knockout-game-attack-131622429.html>; Pregnant woman sucker-punched in unprovoked attack | New York ...: <http://nypost.com/2014/08/14/pregnant-woman-sucker- (1 more message)
trinque: hm, it's like in the place where culture might develop, they've placed a culture-shredder
trinque: I wonder whether anyone actually intended it. It seems too well designed, that you create this concept "multiculturalism" which by definition subsumes whatever particular ideas you might have as an individual.
trinque: but you see.. in order for us to hold hands multiculturally, there are going to have to be some rules...
trinque: where have I seen this kind of short circuiting before
trinque: like in portland you can come to work at a software company as a male with a skirt on and your nails done, no shoes on, so long as you shut the fuck up and work
trinque: not that I mind that at all, but it illustrates the "make any choice, so long as your domain of choosing is entirely irrelevant"
mircea_popescu: the original concept is merely commentary, on lengthy extant tradition, and it stands on its own as a perfectly sensible term of art in its field.
mircea_popescu: except, all that stuff's in french.
mircea_popescu: that the usians can not read and regularly hang themselves in the fancy underwear they bought in paris is not the underwear's fault.
trinque: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133650 @ 0.00053734 = 71.8155 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: how exactly is arbitrary activity "culture" now...
mircea_popescu: srsly, painting your nails ? what culture is this ?
trinque: just a matter of words meaning whatever ya like
trinque: if there's a facebook group for it, it's a culture
mircea_popescu: no wonder the code doesn't work.
trinque: if there's a github, there's a community
mircea_popescu: the term for this is subculture
mircea_popescu: tho even that may be a stretch
trinque: gotta have that other thing of which to be "sub"
mircea_popescu: The United MultiSubCultural States of America
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58500 @ 0.00051339 = 30.0333 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: reminds me of "romania multilateral dezvoltata"
cazalla: mircea_popescu, would you give any weight to studies that show multiculti undermines social trust? (i try to keep in mind these are studies done by gov dept)
mircea_popescu: how do you measure "social trust" ?
cazalla: muh feels of course
mircea_popescu: yeah well, here's the thing : the variable you are likely calling this is a direct inverse of graph connectivity.
mircea_popescu: which means it is being undermined by improved communication.
mircea_popescu: it stands to intuitive reason if you look at it : the more people can talk to more people, the less any individual talk can be trusted, yes ?
cazalla: my experience is that no-one talks to anyone
mircea_popescu: once software acquired the ability to be "updated online", atomic software versions became less trustworthy.
mircea_popescu: because instead of doing anything right, people just slap it together and "we'll do an update later"
trinque: cazalla: I greet neighbors or people on the street here and they look down
mircea_popescu: technology's your enemy there, not anything to do with society.
trinque: I still do it, because fuck them.
trinque: but that was a nice thing about Texan (sub)culture
trinque: you goddamn greet people when you walk by
mircea_popescu: trinque all of them !?
mircea_popescu: i walked by at least 1k people today.
trinque: well there are unspoken rules of it
cazalla: trinque, i talk to my neighbour over the back but i couldn't tell you who else lives in this street.. growing up it was rare not to know
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63014 @ 0.00055212 = 34.7913 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: I knew and drank with everybody I lived in an apt building with in tx
trinque: dunno any of these nervous fucks
mircea_popescu: you were twenty then!
trinque: sure that might be a factor
mircea_popescu: older people eventually figure out everyone's an idiot anyway
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23518 @ 0.00054815 = 12.8914 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ^ first-class lathe work !
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1200053 << iirc the item in question used something like 'people leaving doors unlocked at night'
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 01:29:17; mircea_popescu: how do you measure "social trust" ?
mircea_popescu: so max social trust = up on the mountain ?
asciilifeform when first heard that anyone, anywhere since ancient egypt where locks were supposedly invented, ever left their house unlocked other than by mistake, was floored
mircea_popescu: i scarcely bothered.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc the talk was exclusively of reasonably populated places
mircea_popescu: for one thing, because dumbass russian locks, kept no one out.
trinque: meh, I leave windows open all night on the ground floor
mircea_popescu: fgor the other, because orly, you're gonna ROB ME ?!!?
asciilifeform: even very cheap lock gives extra second or two to aim ?
mircea_popescu: you ever read the story of the whores and the thieves ?
trinque: only crime around here is someone comes and steals your grill off the porch
asciilifeform: ali baba ?
mircea_popescu: no , no, on trilema.
asciilifeform: can't recall one
assbot: KLMist - Bitcoin blockchain keys report ... ( http://bit.ly/1eY24En )
assbot: Spargatorii si curva on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1eY2bQ1 )
mircea_popescu: !rated phf
assbot: You rated user phf on 24-Jun-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood.
asciilifeform: in other 'news', microshit has bitcoin nodes on its campus
mircea_popescu: !rate phf 2 Actually managed to compile Eulora on OS/X, which is a first.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0341b9533b890be1
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phf.2:6b5c1f07e27f7b7ae974773e4c050cfce50f47f405a2e9fdf2666a78059e721a
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for phf from 1 to 2 with note: Actually managed to compile Eulora on OS/X, which is a first.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ^
asciilifeform: speaking of whom,
asciilifeform: i advise all folk in usa with a spare twenty to get that box spoken of earlier
asciilifeform: so it doesn't end up like pogo, with my desk having the only such for months
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 365212 | Current Difficulty: 5.1076366303481926E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 366911 | Next Difficulty In: 1699 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47150109359.0 | Estimated Percent Change: -7.68703
asciilifeform: 'The attack leverages a three-year-old vulnerability in Microsoft Windows Common Controls CVE-2012-015 which is addressed in MS12-027.'
asciilifeform: Run Moar Winblowz, NATO !!
assbot: Hacking Team Uses UEFI BIOS Rootkit to Keep RCS 9 Agent in Target Systems ... ( http://bit.ly/1eY2SsH )
asciilifeform: ends with the obligatory [install nsa's ] 'Update the BIOS whenever there is a security patch'
punkman: ok turdatron must hate me, seems it even ate last email which I sent with "swaks"
punkman flaps hands
BingoBoingo: punkman: Have you tried sending with 'mail'
punkman: BingoBoingo: does it do attachments?
BingoBoingo: I don't know? Only one way to find out
BingoBoingo: Ah, on my system it doesn't seem to
punkman: swaks is a crazy perl script for smtp testing, it works.
assbot: Big Head Press - Thoughtful Stories, Graphic Novels Online And In Print - The Probability Broach: The Graphic Novel, by L. Neil Smith and Scott Bieser ... ( http://bit.ly/1eY3I8R )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: lol
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1200024 < the us had multiple cultures, they were not tolerated by the elites
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 01:15:43; mircea_popescu: obviously you can't have "multiculturalism" among things that aren't even subcultures, let alone cultures in their own right.
mircea_popescu: it did ?
decimation: absolutely. I've mentioned the german community that used to exist, for instance
asciilifeform: there were also urban irish
asciilifeform: and a number of others
decimation: us cities around 1900 were full of ethnic ghettos
decimation: the black were imported to bust these up in order to prevent 'independent vote blocs'
trinque: doesn't seem like those transplants took
mircea_popescu: eh for chrissakes. you and your wife going on a cruise does not now constitute an "english culture" in oceania.
trinque: my family goes back to a big italian clan that moved over in I think the 30s or so
trinque: do you think I have any connections?
trinque: hell no I don't
asciilifeform: everybody who wouldn't bow to massachusetts got bugsprayed.
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1199899 < the majority of these blacks are actually 'spending' usg's money
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 00:33:04; mircea_popescu: servants getting uppity ffs.
mircea_popescu: pecunia non olet.
mircea_popescu: they have it, you want it, fuck you.
decimation: maryland, for instance, has a 'poor people health insurance' where they are required to pay $1, if they can afford it
decimation: most can't afford it
trinque: lol how do they means-test that?
decimation: they don't, it's purely optional
trinque: ask for a dollar, and then write down the "no" response?
decimation: (medicaid)
decimation: yeah I think that's how it works
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61593 @ 0.0005364 = 33.0385 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: and ftr i am naught impressed with this "got bugsprayed" bs.
mircea_popescu: ei ce pazeau ?
cazalla: decimation, i read the other day this Fair Housing update will result in blacks being bussed in to the rich white liberal areas.. btw Obama looking old as fuck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lSLIhXrs1Y
assbot: Weekly Address: Making Our Communities Stronger Through Fair Housing - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1L3XVwf )
trinque: cazalla: heh I got bussed as a white kid to the shittier public school back in the day for the same reason
asciilifeform: recall mr mold: 'my daughter's preschool is literally in a ruin - that is, a (nicely renovated) space which used to be part of a Catholic church. (The preschool is the former convent. The rest of the church remains a ruin proper.) Where are the people who used to pray in this church? They fled. Why? Because they were afraid for their physical safety.'
decimation: cazalla: Obama's a lame duck, the most he can do is hand out goodies so that democrats show up to vote next time
cazalla: taking the bus to school such a strange concept.. i use to ride my bmx doing bunny hops and all sorts along the way
asciilifeform: 'I know, I know. It's gauche to even bring this kind of stuff up. It's not part of our consensus reality. It's not part of our consensus history. When it comes to actual history, however,...'
decimation: cazalla: most us towns - even little cities - have a massive bus infrastructure just to take kids to and from school - and nobody else
mircea_popescu: eh, nothing was ever built by the afraid.
mircea_popescu: what, is this the universal excuse now ? "why is he fucking dumb ?" "he is ~~~affraid for his own physical safety~~~ magic wordsd!!!" "oh ok then, all is well, carry on"
decimation: mircea_popescu: which is why they left, and it is crumbling
mircea_popescu: good riddance.
mircea_popescu: by any practical measure they were an offense to the land they shaded.
mod6: So over the weekend and today, was working on building a new gentoo-amd64-nomultilib (glibc) instance to test out application of patches with v0.5.3.1-RELEASE as the base. Was able to build static binaries with gentoo & glibc just fine with both a modified auto-static (auto.sh) and with a slightly modified stator.sh script.
asciilifeform: good work mod6
asciilifeform: modified how ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 they be actually static ?
mod6: Upon successful compilation, both static builds were able to pull at least 150`000 blocks from mp's node.
mircea_popescu: pretty cool
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw is your node stuck ?
asciilifeform had actual static, in 'stator', compare with the elf attached there
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not at all
asciilifeform: hasn't been stuck once since i moved the clock, afaik
mircea_popescu: tried to track it with a node, it resulted in a stuck node 0.O
mod6: mircea_popescu: it appears to me that they are. I have two build logs (one for with auto.sh and one with stator.sh). They can be found:
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interesting! please say if you are able to replicate this
mircea_popescu: workin' on it.
asciilifeform: (on clean box)
cazalla: decimation, they had a bus for the high school i attended and when i got sent to naughty boy school i was given a train ticket which provide free travel (which was self defeating in that i no longer had to jump the train but could now ride legit for free lol)
asciilifeform: anybody else wedged ?
asciilifeform: (other than mircea_popescu)
mod6: (at the bottom of these sizeable files, you can see me run `ldd` and `readelf` against the output binaries)
asciilifeform: me==365216
mod6: I have created a simple build script that will pull all of the patches, verify them, apply the patches at the top of the file. Along with anything else that was required.
decimation: cazalla: at least you rode transport that others in the city could use
asciilifeform: ^ just to be clear re: above, my node is not, as far as i can tell, wedged!
mod6: This is all leading up to a new "patching guide" that I'm working on. Which is basically finished, save the fact I've yet to decide which direction to go on the build script. On one hand, I really love how simple and clean stator.sh is, but with auto.sh, I like how it automatically pulls the archives for you and creates the directories. etc.
decimation: my node has taken almost 2 weeks to get to 264k
mod6: Anyway, working on it. :]
trinque: mod6: pretty cool!
mod6: decimation: plugged into mp's node?
trinque: hi ag3nt_zer0
ag3nt_zer0: hey trinque
decimation: is on' ascii's node I think
mod6: ah
mod6: <@asciilifeform> modified how ? << with stator, I needed to add back in 'no-shared', according to http://wiki.openssl.org/index.php/Compilation_and_Installation this is required for us (probably). And I also needed to modify your line `cd bitcoin/bitcoin/src;` to `cd bitcoin/src;`. All of the things are in the build log, I tried not to leave anything out.
assbot: Compilation and Installation - OpenSSLWiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1eY67An )
ag3nt_zer0: several months back I was at the plug and play bitcoin meetup... Nathaniel Popper was there talking about his book... anyway, after the talk I was standing in line to ask him to clarify something when this familiar-looking chap gets in line behind me. asks me who what etc...
mod6: Those were the only changes to stator that were required to make it fit with the release artifact.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74689 @ 0.00053922 = 40.2738 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: thx trinque, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, et al. :]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 198721 @ 0.00055277 = 109.847 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 182100 @ 0.000534 = 97.2414 BTC [-] {4}
ag3nt_zer0: at the time I was all zigzagged about Trilema and so I asked him if he had heard of it... he scanned the files that the eye accesses when it looks down/right and there was a spark... he said "what's that?"... I said "dunno, run by this guy Mircea something or other"... he said "oh, that guy doesnt like me"... later he asked for my number and when he pulled out his phone I saw his name was Tim Swanson
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2TF5RBP.txt )
ag3nt_zer0: trivial perhaps, and not to make fun of him, but I thought it was pretty funny...
assbot: ProxyHam anonymising router project mysteriously closed down - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/1eY72kr )
decimation: ag3nt_zer0: was already done, look in the logs
ag3nt_zer0: decimation: thanks. guess I should make that a habit before posting here...
trinque: 'tis the custom
cazalla: i think the tim swanson story more than makes up for it ag3nt_zer0
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51444 @ 0.00055465 = 28.5334 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117256 @ 0.00055519 = 65.0994 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mod6: rather peculiar that you had to add in 'no-shared' - witness that there are no shared deps in my executable (attached to 'stator' post on ml)
mod6: well, actually, I didn't /have/ to at all.
mod6: every time i've built the 'stator' before, the output binary was fine.
asciilifeform: mod6: have you made any experiment to learn whether binary changes at all when this flag is set ?
asciilifeform: might be interesting
mod6: statically built. but I recall going through this in march how we needed that in there... just maybe overly paranoid.
mod6: <@asciilifeform> might be interesting << i have not, as of yet.
trinque: didn't openssl itself have some derpy module-loader thing?
mod6: would be easy for me to try now though.
trinque: perhaps the flag enables/disables that
decimation: yes, openssl had a dynamic library loader flag
asciilifeform: what was it
decimation: sigh, search is down
asciilifeform: no-dso iirc
mircea_popescu: <mod6> I have created a simple build script << you may consider signing some of the things you pull
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00055519 = 6.6068 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: pleez folks, sign
asciilifeform: if you read, understood - sign.
mod6: sign the patches before pulling?
asciilifeform: can sign and say 'this is a bad idea', note
mod6: this is for *Experimental* only.
asciilifeform: doesn't imply endorsement
assbot: Compilation and Installation - OpenSSLWiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1HZBy91 )
mod6: I only stamp approval at release time.
mircea_popescu: ag3nt_zer0 i dun particularly care one way or the other. the discussion's in teh logs which atm can't be searched it seems.
asciilifeform: a signature from a reasonably literate wot face, 'i read this and it made sense', is worth something.
asciilifeform: to me, at least.
decimation: mthreat explained his hosting guy forgot to pay the bills
ag3nt_zer0: yeah was just gonna say search not working
mod6: There are some very far reaching effects of the patches applied in these build logs. They appear to "work", but as of yet, they're basically untested.
mircea_popescu: mod6 not strongarming you
mod6: not taken that way :]
ag3nt_zer0: asciilifeform: yes I found that... thx
asciilifeform: mod6: thus far the longest-running test is the s.nsa node.
asciilifeform: it features my entire shebang through 'stator'.
mod6: that's good!
ag3nt_zer0: was just looking up z86 heh
asciilifeform: presently 47 connections, incl. a bunch of cn, interestingly
asciilifeform: usually hovers between 35-50
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pay it a visit, log in, see if spot anybody you know...
mircea_popescu: eh, im working on an eulora release rightnao
mod6: ok building again without 'no-shared' for binary examination
mod6: <@asciilifeform> doesn't imply endorsement << ok. i was just under the impression that's excatly what it meant.
mod6: I emboss cryptographically, stating that I've read, comprehended, approved and would apply in my own battlestation.
asciilifeform: normally folks say why they're signing something
asciilifeform: when they sign it
mod6: That's fair if it has a disclaimer.
mod6: lol, guess I just didn't wanna clutter up the turdomatic or confuse anyone either.
asciilifeform: compared to most similar boards, it is practically empty
asciilifeform: (imho a 'feature, not bug')
mod6: less is more, as always. if there's too much in there, it's less likely to be read.
asciilifeform: has plenty of room for assorted strange.
asciilifeform: without becoming crowded.
mod6: I see, we just have a bit different view of the thing. I only wanna send stuff in that I can pretty much stand behind.
mod6: One of the resasons that I haven't even posted the gentoo build guide to the list either.
mod6: I've tested it, trinque has tested it, but we need a third party to independantly verify so I know what I'm publishing there is as correct as it can be.
mod6: I'll give this some further thought going forward. I don't wanna hold off on pulling the trigger on this stuff if all I need is simple skull & cross bones.
trinque: I can see the point that two signatures would've communicated what you said, mod6
asciilifeform: feel free to use a different graphic if the old 'jolly roger' has gotten boring
trinque: with some note
trinque: ascii-dickbutt
mod6: asciilifeform: noted.
mod6: <+trinque> I can see the point that two signatures would've communicated what you said, mod6 << in that it would have been 1/2 of the foundation's official seal?
mod6: i thought so too. and it's a credit to my trust of asciilifeform that I verify his signature, and we have a L1 trust between us.
mod6: eh, that was poorly worded. I think you all understand my meaning.
asciilifeform: trust & fuzzies is great, but i'd really like folks to start reading the patches
asciilifeform: (mod6 does. ben_vulpes? who else)
asciilifeform: trinque?
trinque: I mean that it indelibly marks the text in question with the involvement of the signers
asciilifeform: and yes, after read, and think - sign.
trinque: I do read the mailing list, yes
asciilifeform: 'i read this, grasped it'
asciilifeform: or even 'i read this and it made no fucking sense and wtf'
trinque: oh that reminds me
trinque: jurov: tls outbound smtp for the mailing list plz?
trinque: should be a simple switch to flip in main.cf
trinque: (if postfix)
trinque: for no better reason than I've required it on my end and it cut spam by 100x
asciilifeform: trinque: why was this needed ?
mod6: asciilifeform: point taken. glad we talked about it. and yeah, very much so read and examine every patch.
asciilifeform: trinque: it's also how you get the next 'hearbleed' on your box
trinque: yeah that is true
asciilifeform: this atmosphere where 'gotta have ssl or else' is an engineered product
trinque: sure, I wasn't saying that
asciilifeform: i advocate - resistance.
trinque: the box was getting ass-blasted with spam
asciilifeform: there are other ways to filter spam, no ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00054366 = 4.7842 BTC [-]
trinque: sure, was running spamassassin and whatnot
trinque: your point about heartbleed is well taken
asciilifeform: i also have a habit, of compulsively re-reading own patches
asciilifeform: to see if made a mistake.
asciilifeform: i recommend this habit.
mod6: it does help. i often have to come back to it like a day later and re-read my own stuff for the 9th time.
asciilifeform: a mistake that is owned up to, before it sinks any ships - can perhaps be accepted as a mistake, and forgiven
asciilifeform: not sure about other kinds
asciilifeform: as the war heats up.
mod6: also more eyes help too. sometimes we all miss stuff.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00054366 = 12.9119 BTC [-]
trinque: I'm off; gnite gents
mod6: night trinque
mod6: I'll make an effort this week to sign the patches I've read and understand, even if still experimental at this time.
asciilifeform: i recall that last we spoke of this, folks signed and noticed that jurov's patch sig widget didn't eat them correctly
asciilifeform: and stopped
mod6: and I'll find a new ascii art instead of the jolly roger ;)
asciilifeform: possibly i misremember.
asciilifeform: check, when search comes back
mod6: ah, yeah... hm. I believe when I went to sign all the patches from the last release, I had to pull the patches, and then sign them as if I had wrote them myself for them to be accepted.
mod6: They needed to basically have the same SHA1s as the originals, with my own detatched sig.
mod6: Anyway, yah, will take a look when search comes back.
mod6: Someday, we're gonna get the kinks worked out of this system.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87466 @ 0.00054424 = 47.6025 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: ok this build is just about done...
ag3nt_zer0: good night
mod6: ni
ag3nt_zer0: whoops that was for trinque... hadn' scrolled
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1CB8eW2 )
mod6: asciilifeform: ok, compile complete.
asciilifeform: http://janestreet.github.io << unrelated l0lpharm, for connoisseurs of 'functional' prog. styles
assbot: Open Source @ Jane Street ... ( http://bit.ly/1CB8p3M )
mod6: welp, they do hvae differenet hashes. that at least is obv.
asciilifeform: mod6: hexdump -C, then diff
mod6: ok, i was just gonna do a quick `xxd <file> | less` and look at 'em side by side.
mod6: ok looking through the hexdump -C diff now....
asciilifeform: mod6: also worth comparing objdump output
asciilifeform: probably oughta begin there, vs the hex
mod6: yeah, i thought about that first actually. but gotta recompile since bins are striped
mod6: *stripped
mod6: i'll tackle that tomorrow i think.
mod6: night all!
ag3nt_zer0: Gute Nacht!
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