Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-12-17 | 2014-12-19 → ↓
undata: folks we've got a decider in the house.
Luke-Jr: the "core devs" don't even want to.
ben_vulpes: so this is a sensible default.
Luke-Jr: exactly.
ben_vulpes: in your opinion.
ben_vulpes: now distributed as a default for gentoo.
Luke-Jr: yep
undata: convenient, that.
Luke-Jr: and most of the users happen to agree
ben_vulpes: how is that not pushing your opinions on the MO of bitcoin onto gentoo users?
undata: you think it's sensible for you to say who does and does not transact on the blockchain
Luke-Jr: undata: there you go putting words in my mouth again
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: any default is a default
undata: Luke-Jr: what mental gymnastics do you use to define a blacklist?
Luke-Jr: defaulting to the reference policy is also a default. are you going to claim it's "core devs" pushing that on people?
undata: Luke-Jr: if I piss you off, will you blacklist me?
danielpbarron: Luke-Jr, how can a transaction be "spam" when it pays a fee?
ben_vulpes: Luke-Jr: actually, the "core devs" are trying to push all sorts of dumb shit on people. larger block sizes are on that list.
Luke-Jr: undata: I've never blacklisted anyone who pissed me off before, so your question is stupid.
Luke-Jr: danielpbarron: "spam" and "fee" have no direct relationship
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: lol, most of us are opposed to larger block sizes at the current time.
Luke-Jr: heck, even Gavin says it's 2 years out
ben_vulpes: "at the current time"
undata: Luke-Jr: your response is "trust me"?
ben_vulpes: good god.
undata: you sir do not understand bitcoin.
Luke-Jr: undata: there you go putting words in my mouth again
undata: Luke-Jr: any child could draw the conclusions I am from what you've said
Luke-Jr: undata: only a child* maybe
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://imgur.com/gallery/9GHhlyW << own any of these ?
assbot: An HP 95LX, 200LX, and OmniBook 300 running the same prime factors program in GW-BASIC. For those of you that are into that. - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1AJz4VB )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
undata: you are the sole decider re: blacklisting, and you should be trusted
Luke-Jr: [05:04:25] <Luke-Jr> undata: there you go putting words in my mouth again
danielpbarron: 12:07 <+Luke-Jr> danielpbarron: "spam" and "fee" have no direct relationship << yes they do. if I spend an old output, no fee required; i spend a new output with no fee, tx doesn't get spread
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: No... If I get the time though I might have to visit eBay...
Luke-Jr: danielpbarron: no
Luke-Jr: what you said does not support your claim
undata: Luke-Jr: you're just demonstrating yourself a liar, which makes me trust you as blacklist-lord less.
Luke-Jr: undata: the only one lying here is you
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1425 @ 0.0012 = 1.71 BTC
undata: Luke-Jr: where have I misrepresented you? I've merely taken what I've dragged out of you in pages and thrown it back in lines.
mats: this has been rehashed three times now
Luke-Jr: no, you've claimed I am saying things totally unrelated to what i actually said
mats: how about you stop boring everyone and let it go
undata: mats: I just want this garbage in here for when Luke-Jr pulls something else
assbot: TIL that a commercial 1989 laptop had a multitasking graphical OS and full office suite, SSD storage and a 60 hour battery life as well as featuring hot-swappable batteries and instant suspend/resume. : todayilearned ... ( http://bit.ly/1AJzPya )
ben_vulpes: probably have enough now
BingoBoingo: Well, that BFL non-delivery delivery
Luke-Jr: someone on reddit complained that I should only do 1 controversial thing at a time, implying there is something else you can FUD about already if you want to
mats: some of us are keeping score, rest assured
Luke-Jr: (I didn't ask what the other thing he considered controversial was, sorry)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: lol, so much price masturbation. So much "this is what we have now basically" when now they get even less.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: who has 60 hour battery now ?
asciilifeform: of use! not standby.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nobody. We have so much less than we used to have. We are in the future and the future is a nightmare.
Luke-Jr: my watch does..
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I mean we have people apparently paying to send spam now!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 900 @ 0.0012 = 1.08 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 4324 @ 0.0012 = 5.1888 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00062518 = 8.0336 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27859 @ 0.00062518 = 17.4169 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
assbot: Craigslist ad for ‘killer koala GumNut’ a hoax ... ( http://bit.ly/13BkGF6 )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.12 = 1.2 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: People pot power: Aussie state gives go-ahead to medicinal cannabis trial — RT News ... ( http://bit.ly/1z0bxhh )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 22 @ 0.10980007 = 2.4156 BTC [-] {4}
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: has shorten talked about cannabis cazalla?
Vexual: old quentin must have a bit of arthritis
cazalla: dunno, i imagine they'll allow it in due time for tax rev, god knows they'll need new sources
Vexual: depends whos holding the reigns i guess
cazalla: i don't think it matters who holds them
Vexual: people star running outta centrelink, the cannbis laws wont matter a pinch of shut
Vexual: these libereals are filing hard
cazalla: how can they run out, just print more
Vexual: mining tax turns into a mining subsidy
BingoBoingo: !up themediator
Vexual: fucking here we go
cazalla: mebe they'll introduce a new time of mining tax
cazalla: new type..
Vexual: yeah, you gotta be mining for that to work
Vexual: i think we're sitting pretty for the economy to solve
Vexual: woodsides buying up all the us failings, chinas buying aussie goodness, it'll all work out
cazalla: lol righto
cazalla: we're fucked Vexual
Vexual: 'generally yeah
Vexual: if it all goes wrong ill be catching lemon sharks and selling the fins
Vexual: cunts arent even protected
Vexual: not oficcially anyway
cazalla: didya read that wealth of generations report that came out? first time in our history that .au citizens take more from the gov than they contribute
Vexual: really? no, but it sounds about right
cazalla: been meaning to write it up but get side tracked with alcohol
Vexual: gfc? nah, oh wait, yeah
cazalla: concern of the report is diminishing amount of people to tax, young people work more and more and yet won't ever own their own home and that this unspoken agreement that we pay for the eldery so that the young pay for us when old is going to break down
cazalla: not auth'd so can't up you Vexual
RagnarDanneskjol: !up Vexual
cazalla: ty RagnarDanneskjol
Vexual: you think they might put the bank rate up?
BingoBoingo: RagnarDanneskjol: Nice site http://thelogdailyreport.com/
assbot: THE LOG DAILY REPORT ... ( http://bit.ly/1v2vW3G )
cazalla: i dunno, i know fuck all about economics, i just compare how people i went to school with are doing compared to my parents (1 income, 1 stay at home mum)
RagnarDanneskjol: oh, that seems outdated
cazalla: not sure outdated is the right word, what my parents did wouldn't fly these days
Vexual: dar your blog mr viking?
cazalla: bah soz, drunk, thought ya talking to me
Vexual: i wot?
Vexual: u wot?
Vexual: mr viking is ragnar
RagnarDanneskjol: i know. not really
cazalla: Vexual, http://grattan.edu.au/report/the-wealth-of-generations/ ya should read it, even if ya don't, having asians as token australian image really sums it up
assbot: The wealth of generations | Grattan Institute ... ( http://bit.ly/1v2wvuz )
Vexual: nuff said
Vexual: im not sure if im old of young
cazalla: well, ya get the aged pension yet? if not, young i guess
Vexual: no i dont
cazalla: won't be long until majority of young people wake up and realise they're wasting their time working and paying tax to support eldery people who get huge welfare yet own everything
cazalla: at least, i hope
Vexual: i have beeen to centrelink tho, i has a crazy girlfriend once
Vexual: she wanted me to say i was charging her rent
cazalla: pussy in lieu of aud?
Vexual: hell no
cazalla: for anyone that doesn't know what centrelink is, typical customer = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26O9XYTSj4g
assbot: Housos VS Authority Official Trailer - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1v2yWNz )
cazalla: removing voice from Vexual, that's unaustralian
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00062518 = 3.9699 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1750 @ 0.00063042 = 1.1032 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 840 @ 0.0012 = 1.008 BTC
assbot: MtGox Bankruptcy Trustee Answers Some Questions | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1J7KKHO )
davout: the most interesting part is basically that only the losses seem to be lodged under the mtgox corporate entity
davout: "nope, we won't seize mark's comfy chair, it's owned by tibanne"
cazalla: i was more surprised no-one else reported on it, erry one else has moved on i guess
mircea_popescu: ho ho ho!
BingoBoingo: Vacation that short?
mircea_popescu: haha no, merely taking a break to see what you've been up to.
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 314.82, Best ask: 315.4, Bid-ask spread: 0.58000, Last trade: 315.4, 24 hour volume: 27421.94755491, 24 hour low: 304.99, 24 hour high: 327.0, 24 hour vwap: 317.88830075
mircea_popescu: i see all it takes is for me to be away two days for some noob to break bitcoin...
cazalla: mircea_popescu, sweating the price even on hols eh
assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1v2UsSv )
BingoBoingo: Well, It happens everywhere
cazalla: BingoBoingo, just a little upset /r/bitcoin smashT his /. record
BingoBoingo: That also happens
davout: "'Instead of Using KYC, We Prefer to Use Our Own Model: TYC (Trust Your Customer)’ - Bitcoin-Wave CCO"
assbot: 'Instead of Using KYC, We Prefer to Use Our Own Model: TYC (Trust Your Customer)’ - Bitcoin-Wave CCO, G. Heni ... ( http://bit.ly/1sD2kcl )
davout: many lols
mircea_popescu: more of the "if i call this something else it won't be this anymore" ?
assbot: Nigeria sentences 54 soldiers to death for refusing to fight Boko Haram. ... ( http://bit.ly/1sD4wAC )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27200 @ 0.0006251 = 17.0027 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1000 @ 0.0012 = 1.2 BTC
jurov looked twice "she's tranny? or no?"
jurov: !up Vexual
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1500 @ 0.0012 = 1.8 BTC
assbot: Cemetery with one MILLION mummies unearthed in Egypt | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1J8oPQS )
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you know, im pretty sure that pic was in here maybe half year ago, we lulzed at it.
BingoBoingo: !up drts
mircea_popescu: an' with that, laters all!
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-press-forever-derpy/
assbot: 'It shocks the conscience' - N.J. man unable to use arms remains jailed for 4 months on gun charge | NJ.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1uWnQc4 )
thestringpuller: "if you want the price to go up stop spending your fucking coins"
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 310.73, Best ask: 310.98, Bid-ask spread: 0.25000, Last trade: 310.99, 24 hour volume: 23894.83201725, 24 hour low: 304.99, 24 hour high: 327.0, 24 hour vwap: 316.570075316
thestringpuller: rithm: finally. i fucking hate that thing. so useless.
assbot: New Tech City: Look How Cute this Military Cyber Warfare Training Ground Is - WNYC ... ( http://bit.ly/1z89mgw )
assbot: Why the Sony hack is unlikely to be the work of North Korea. | Marc's Security Ramblings ... ( http://bit.ly/1z89JYt )
thestringpuller: mats maybe north korea hired some chinese contractors?
mats: who knows
mats: its more likely the incentive was economic rather than political imo
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8dugB )
rithm: thestringpuller changetip is a nsa tracking op obv
rithm: codename CHANGETIP
thestringpuller: yea, that I did not connect
thestringpuller: but I did the math a while back with mike_c 's advice and the best case scenario is like < 10k a year revenue
thestringpuller: so yea i guess if NSA bankrolls them, then they can survive
thestringpuller: that's a brilliant article tho
assbot: Putin says “Fuck it, we’re switching to Bitcoin” ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8f0PP )
mike_c: hehe. "Switching Russia completely over to Bitcoin will not happen over night. However with smart phones the process should take about a month."
assbot: since my house is being searched right now, small reminder: be careful buying on purse.io : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8fipZ )
BingoBoingo: I don't think Russia would switch over at least until the USMS auctions are over.
mike_c: i am shocked. shocked! purse.io attracted scammers?
assbot: T-72 - Tanks - Mortarinvestments.eu - Mortar Investments ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8i1zz )
assbot: sagreyhawk1974 comments on since my house is being searched right now, small reminder: be careful buying on purse.io ... ( http://bit.ly/1wPk0Wg )
mats: i've always wanted to have my own tank
BingoBoingo: Shame they have to demil the gun
mats: i'd reenact different scenes from movies like Red Dawn
mats: shoot my own version of the Tank Man
BingoBoingo: I'd go to sports car and off road truck meetups
mats: you'll finally have the biggest dick at the car show
mats: TIL there is a PostScript ASIC
mats: imagine being the guy who had to design that
BingoBoingo: I'd encourage kids to key the tank, watch the weenies with their lesser vehicles squirm that the kids might go on to their vehicles
davout: mats: fighter jet > tank
mats: but no one will know see me flying a fighter jet
mats: whereas with a tank i can mount speakers playing awful music and dance on top of it
BingoBoingo: Also can't just fill up the fighter jet at the local 7-11
mats: http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product890.html TIL you can put jet fuel, rocket, or gasoline in a T-72
assbot: Army Guide - T-72, Main battle tank ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8nbLR )
mats: er, rocket fuel.
mats: ...and diesel fuel. time to get some coffee
mike_c: strapping a rocket to a tank would be awesome
thestringpuller: mike_c you play too much command and conquer
mike_c: heh, i never got into that one. can you do that in c&c?
thestringpuller: yea there are rocket tanks
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ever see a large, slow bulldozer driven on a public road (say, on its way to a demolition?) - with tank, that can be you!
asciilifeform: ;;seed adlai
gribble: Error: "seed" is not a valid command.
asciilifeform: ;;seen adlai
gribble: adlai was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 3 hours, 57 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <adlai> (not there yet, but looks like it's on its way)
asciilifeform: ^ tank man
asciilifeform: ask him if he wants own tank at home.
Adlai: not quite tanks, but i wouldn't want at home the things i'm familiar with, and they're less trouble than tanks
asciilifeform: postscript asic << i had one. was in an ancient 'texas instruments' laser printer.
Adlai: grease everywhere, weird black ooze dripping out of the engine
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Of course. Here we also get tractors on the highways. SOunds like a grand time.
assbot: Logged on 26-11-2014 00:46:13; asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it.
asciilifeform: to some extent same goes for tank and other picturesque instruments of modern war
BingoBoingo: Building a deck on top, set up some chairs. Get a limo license and people would probably pay some serious money to get ferried around to bars and parties in that manner.
BingoBoingo: Tank could also have dayjob as bulldozer or snowplow
BingoBoingo: <Adlai> grease everywhere, weird black ooze dripping out of the engine << Also a plague of civilian vehicles
BingoBoingo: !up lobbes
lobbes: thank you
BingoBoingo: <lobbes> <+BingoBoingo> Building a deck on top, set up some chairs. Get a limo license and people would probably pay some serious money to get ferried around to bars and parties in that manner << Obligatory slogan: "Come and get Tanked!"
BingoBoingo: lobbes: you win an internet for that
lobbes: nice. How much do internets go for these days?
BingoBoingo: That's a good question
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0AD0R4Z.txt )
mats: asciilifeform is a buzzkill
BingoBoingo: mats: Nah. He just forces us to confront problems with better problems.
BingoBoingo: I would totally charter a seat on the top deck of a tank for a scenic tour of wine country.
mats: such hedonism.
assbot: Was isolated from 1999 to 2006 with a 486. Built my own late 80s Operating System - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1uWHIMe )
mats: that is an incredibly depressing story
punkman: "We call it Full-Stack Smart Lighting as Services." http://axrtek.com/
assbot: Will paycoin (xpy) be valued at more than .01 BTC dollars in 2015? Paycoin is - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsqvRq )
rithm: anyone want this action?
rithm: we have a pumper in -otc
mike_c: what's a btc dollar?
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/19AATGB.txt )
BingoBoingo: Seriously what is a btc dollar?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26109 @ 0.00063065 = 16.4656 BTC [+] {2}
rithm: unsure BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: !up ikeboy
rithm: ikeboy what's a bitcoin dollar
assbot: Will paycoin (xpy) be valued at more than .01 BTC dollars in 2015? Paycoin is - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsqKMs )
ikeboy: ah, you're right, I had misworded that. I was originally writing it in dollars, then decided to switch to btc and messed up the editing
ikeboy: i'll resubmit
BingoBoingo: ;;ident ikeboy
gribble: Nick 'ikeboy', with hostmask 'ikeboy!~ikeboy@ool-435622d3.dyn.optonline.net', is not identified.
rithm: ;;gpg info ikeboy
gribble: User 'ikeboy', with keyid None, fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 19gUMpL3VrJzVYbbAx1PktNk3Pfnm7h3jx, registered on Wed Dec 17 16:26:13 2014, last authed on Wed Dec 17 16:26:13 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=ikeboy . Currently not authenticated.
rithm: yesterday thoug BingoBoingo
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 7605 @ 0.0012 = 9.126 BTC {2}
rithm: ;;calc 20/[tlast]
gribble: 0.0639897616381
rithm: ;;calc 10/[tlast]
gribble: 0.0319948808191
rithm: ;;calc 1/[tlast]
gribble: 0.00319948808191
rithm: ;;calc 3.50/[tlast]
gribble: 0.0111982082867
BingoBoingo: ikeboy: Seems too soon to be a good bet.
rithm: ikeboy is trying to get his hands on all the paycoin he can
ikeboy: what do you mean? Paycoin is supposed to launch at $20 dollars before then
BingoBoingo: ikeboy: I think the first actual paycoin already happened for a single coin at around $22 soon after the chain launched. Seems like an incredibly small sample size.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24300 @ 0.00062003 = 15.0667 BTC [-] {2}
ikeboy: what do you mean?
BingoBoingo: ikeboy: Well, where do you get your information on this subject including price projections?
assbot: Bitcoin 0.1.0 Unreleased Features - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsrLUO )
ikeboy: bingoBoingo: which price projection do you mean? do you want the source that they are claiming to support it at $20?
BingoBoingo: ikeboy: Just whatever feeds your present ideas
assbot: Urology and Pediatric Departments Gearing Up For Annual "CIRC DU SOLEIL" | GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1xss69Y )
mats: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 313.01, Best ask: 314.13, Bid-ask spread: 1.12000, Last trade: 314.15, 24 hour volume: 24161.05902637, 24 hour low: 304.99, 24 hour high: 327.0, 24 hour vwap: 315.862949004
BingoBoingo: ';;tocker
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19553 @ 0.00061754 = 12.0748 BTC [-]
ikeboy: BingoBoingo:I think there's a >50% chance of gaw staying honest for at least the next 2 weeks, and someone else thought the odds were >1%, so i propossed a bet
ikeboy: *proposed
BingoBoingo: !up ikeboy
mike_c: there is a 0% chance of gaw being honest. I guess you're betting on when they decide to start running, but the time before that is not known as "being honest"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 920 @ 0.0012 = 1.104 BTC
ikeboy: well, then you should bet at infinite odds against them being honest
BingoBoingo: Well, a time frame has to be included. It took 9 months for pirateat40 to implode, longer for Gox
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.11999 = 1.1999 BTC [+]
ikeboy: BingoBoingo: people were saying it wasn't going to launch at $20 in a week like it's supposed to
BingoBoingo: I thought it did that earlier this week already
BingoBoingo: Or has GAW been abusing the word launch again
ikeboy: if i want to buy, but not to sell
mike_c: it looks like it is trading on that crapxchange already?
ikeboy: i can buy for 20, but can only sell for around 10
mike_c: ;;calc 0.02*[tlast]
gribble: 6.2774
mike_c: for $6.
thestringpuller: no bet for ethereum launch date yet...
thestringpuller: (random)
jurov: "Ethereum launches in about 2 weeks"
mats: more code that doesn't work
BingoBoingo: jurov: For Butterfly Labs definitions of 2 weeks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 19307 @ 0.0012 = 23.1684 BTC {3}
jurov: they can parade some crippled ripple-like stuff and call it launch anyway
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8963 @ 0.00059417 = 5.3255 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: need to start making bets in parallel with derps
thestringpuller: when these companies burn all their cash they'll need more money
thestringpuller: something like "DERP COMPANY to attempt/successfully raise funding in Q# 20XX"
jurov: lol F.DERP hedging?
jurov: well.. since F.DERP isn't trading, replacing it with a bet would be worthwhile
jurov: what about "any D.* derivative on MPEx will pay out before July 1"
jurov: or extra bet for each one?
jurov: oh lest i forget:
jurov: ;;later tell mircea_popescu x.idiff.dec expired
gribble: The operation succeeded.
davout: jurov: are the x.diffs even still traded?
jurov: even if none traded, ther should be monthly report
jurov: or at least "we'll skip this one"
mike_c: well, an official announcement of the settlement price is useful because it determines the cap on the next quarter.
jurov: ;;bc,stats
davout: makes sense
gribble: Current Blocks: 334855 | Current Difficulty: 3.945767130713873E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 336671 | Next Difficulty In: 1816 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 18 hours, 10 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 35492295849.7 | Estimated Percent Change: -10.04969
jurov: ;;calc 39457671307/10000/100000000
gribble: 0.039457671307
jurov: ^ settlement price, is that right?
jurov: !t m x.idiff.dec
assbot: I thought I told you not to touch me.
jurov blushes
jurov: !last x.idiff.dec
assbot: It says some pelt-wearin' trapper, some stinkin' bean-suckin' possum skinner, he's gonna collect that reward money.
davout: wtf has kakobrekla been smoking
mike_c: correct settlement price is up to MP I believe, because it flipped on settlement day again
mats: they're quotes from Dead Man
thestringpuller: !l m x.idiff.dec
assbot: Hell, ain't we about more fucked than a whore at closin' time, huh?
thestringpuller: $depth x.diff.dec
empyex: thestringpuller: Want a bash? http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=194 Or use a valid MPSIC!
thestringpuller: $depth x.idiff.dec
empyex: thestringpuller: [X.IDIFF.DEC] Bids:
empyex: thestringpuller: [X.IDIFF.DEC] Asks:
thestringpuller: really 0 volume on idiff for DEC?!?!?
jurov: last 30 days
jurov: maybe it traded before.. mhmmmm i should have adatabase for that
jurov: lmao it says there was 1 x.idiff.dec traded on 2012-12-13 and nothing since
punkman: I have 14 kinds of cheese in my fridge
punkman: I think I might get a little fat this christmas
thestringpuller: and constipation
assbot: Central bank imposes negative interest rates - The Local ... ( http://bit.ly/1v4yTRl )
punkman: when did the swiss get so retarded?
punkman: around the time they decided to fix eur/chf?
mats: as the link says, the franc is perceived to be overvalued
mats: bet ya didn't read it in 20 seconds
punkman: I was just going by the title
assbot: Will Ripple Eclipse Bitcoin? - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/1v4zORT )
jurov: the next doge !!!1
mats: i just ate a hundred dumplings, i think im gonna die
mats: nice knowing you guys
jurov: any last wishes?
mats: tell my mother i converted to christianity in my last moments
mats: it'll make her feel better
jurov: which kind?
jurov: catholic? baptist? orthodox?
mats: the non denominational kind
jurov: choose wisely :D
jurov: such proclamation could make her less happy than before
jurov: "nooo my matsy turned to heresy in his last moments!!!"
mats: is there a tiered system?
punkman: what kind of dumplings?
punkman: non-denominational is like the cheez whiz of religion
jurov: mats, say you just repented. that's acceptable everywhere
mats: if god ends up being a calvinist and you're an anglican
mats: you end up in cheese whiz heaven rather than nutella heaven
mats: nepalese dumplings
jurov: and if god is catholic, then you inevitably end up in purgatory
assbot: A True Church - You Think You're Saved, But You're Not! ... ( http://bit.ly/1v4BCKy )
mats: tasted like chicken and other things
mats: theres a lot of words on that page
punkman: do the words taste like chicken?
jurov: Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
jurov: danielpbarron: who does these implants?
jurov: i want to get the bible implant
danielpbarron: God does it
jurov: We believe Scriputure does not condemn masturbation. Although it is typically done in wickedness (Matthew 15:19 "evil thoughts"), it can be done in godliness (Titus 1:15). yay
danielpbarron: it doesn't condemn having multiple wives either, so lots of fun should be possible
jurov: nothing about fags?
danielpbarron: that's condemned
jurov: interesting. you do know jesus did not condemn centurion's lover but instead said "your faith healed him"
jurov: ofc the bigots mistranslated it as "slave"
danielpbarron: can't it be both?
danielpbarron: the Bible doesn't condemn having slaves or slave wives
jurov: you want to say homosexuality is okay if it's master/slave relationship?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1632 @ 0.0012 = 1.9584 BTC
danielpbarron: no; it's never ok
jurov: jesus should say so, then
jurov: i'm certain it ended up in scripture (at least greek one) because it was controversial even then
danielpbarron: it's mentioned in old and new testement
jurov: if you put paul and old scripture above jesus
danielpbarron: Jesus is the Word (scripture)
jurov: so jesus inspired paul to condemn homosexuality despite he did not say anything himself?
fluffypony: [21:42:07] <+danielpbarron>it doesn't condemn having multiple wives either <- that's not true
fluffypony: polygamy was allowed for a time
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> RagnarDanneskjol: Nice site http://thelogdailyreport.com/ << who is this?
assbot: THE LOG DAILY REPORT ... ( http://bit.ly/1v2vW3G )
danielpbarron: jurov, Jesus is the God of the old testement, the same God that gave the law to Moses
fluffypony: but not in the "new testament"
ben_vulpes: oh god not with the sky fairies again
danielpbarron: fluffypony, show me the scripture that says it isn't allowed
fluffypony: so for a time, God did permit a man to have more than one wife. (see, for eg. Genesis 4:19; 16:1-4; 29:18-30:24) - but God did not originate the practice of polygamy. He provided only one wife for Adam.
danielpbarron: He never said "don't get any more wives"
jurov: danielpbarron: he expressly mentions he gave them certain laws previously because their hearts were hard...
fluffypony: then in John 8:28 Jesus Christ reinstituted God's original standard of monogamy
jurov: bah, this won't go anywhere anyway
fluffypony: also when asked about marriage, Jesus said: "He who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh.'"—Matthew 19:4, 5
fluffypony: the Apostle Paul (one of Jesus' disciples) was later inspired by God to write: "Let each man have his own wife and each woman have her own husband." (in 1 Corinthians 7:2)
fluffypony: the Bible also states that any married man in the congregation who is given special responsibilities must be "a husband of one wife."—1 Timothy 3:2, 12
danielpbarron: yes, but where in any of that does it say "and have no more than one wife"
fluffypony: danielpbarron: "husband of one wife" is pretty unambiguous, as is "his own wife" and "her own husband"
danielpbarron: that's one particular kind of person; not all people
danielpbarron: "special responsibilities"
fluffypony: "Let each man have his own wife and each woman have her own husband" - all peoplea
fluffypony: now "his own wifes" and "her own husbands"
fluffypony: not now
fluffypony: and wives not wifes
fluffypony: wtf spelling.
mike_c: oh hey, yeah, plus nobody gives a shit about that old scam.
fluffypony: mike_c: complete pump and dump
danielpbarron: that passage is about how a husband owns his wife and a wife owns her husband, and that neither may refuse sex
mike_c: srsly
fluffypony: danielpbarron: so then show me the contrast - where in the Bible does it explicitly allow polygamy?
mike_c: join #bible
danielpbarron: fluffypony, nearly all the prominant male figures throughout the Bible had harems of wives and slave wives, and God never scolded them for it
fluffypony: well I don't want to get into a protracted debate...but beyond Solomon that's not true
keystroke: hey fluffypony, didn't think i would see you here :)
keystroke: you peter and i climbed around risto's castle more than a few months back now
danielpbarron: Soloman's error was that his wives were not believers, and they led him to worship false idols
fluffypony: omg keystroke
fluffypony: best day in Malla
keystroke: hahaha yes i loved it
fluffypony: I have a ton of cool photos from that adventure
keystroke: i was just thinking about that
keystroke: me too! dcc me some sometime
keystroke: i decided to hang out in this chan for good irc times after reading contravex
keystroke: but nobody knows who i am
jurov: including you?
keystroke: ah we can discuss the epistemology of personal identity
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0M608NK.txt )
rithm: i'm more of a "we"
jurov: nah that's just epiphenomena
keystroke: i take a parfitian view on personal identity
keystroke: i do not think it is epiphenomenal, it is clearly causal
keystroke: anyway
ben_vulpes: i take a profiterole view on identity.
jurov: good for you, no prob with polygamy then
keystroke: polygamy is to be encouraged
keystroke: although i would lean towards polyamory
ben_vulpes: and a partfait view on polyamory
keystroke: why marry them?
keystroke: haha
ben_vulpes: if it's tasty
ben_vulpes: do it
keystroke: to each his own
keystroke: anyway apologies for interrupting the conversation which i can only hope was about orgies
mats: i wish
danielpbarron: polyamory is a scam not unlike "devotional sex" http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2014#468421
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2014 20:07:31; pankkake: http://devotionalsex.com/ totally not a cult
keystroke: haha i have seen polyamory implemented successfully
keystroke: why do you say it is a scam?
danielpbarron: a scam to get males to submit to females
keystroke: but the male in a polyamorous relationship can be free to roam as well
fluffypony: I agree
fluffypony: pump and dump scam
keystroke: hahaha
danielpbarron: the male should already have been free to "roam"
keystroke: i thought it was a ponzi
fluffypony: PolygamyCoin
keystroke: ahh ok well marriage itself is a bigger scam than polyamory in that case
keystroke: haha fluffypony
danielpbarron: i guess it depends on what the marriage contract says
kakobrekla: !up bit14
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7047 @ 0.00061624 = 4.3426 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46437 @ 0.00059395 = 27.5813 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28163 @ 0.00059326 = 16.708 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2350 @ 0.00060129 = 1.413 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: !up psychouroboros
mod6: This month I've been doing testing with the patched version of the reference implementation. Main object here is to get from genesis block to current block, while being able to get past the wedge block 252450. I was able to do that, but not only did we test with ascii's patches and ben's UPNP patch, I added a patch (http://dpaste.com/1G3XY64) that removes the checkpoints, and a patch (http://dpaste.com/1K5M2TN) to configure BDB so the R.I. won't
kakobrekla: idk if 'wont wedge' is enough for ascii at this point, but gj!
mod6: I was able to get upto the current block 2 different times with patches 1->5 (which includes ascii's patches, ben's patch, and my removal of checkpoints) with two seperate bdb configs. The first one just changed this: dbenv.set_lk_max_locks(40000); But ended up with a huge amount of BDB tx log files.
mod6: So I looked into what they have set up in v0.9 and it more closely resembles that second dpaste above. If you guys would like to review a bit before I post these to the list, that'd be awesome.
mod6: here's a snippit of what my 300Gb disk looked like with only the dbenv.set_lk_max_locks looked like:
assbot: dpaste: 2SE7QY5 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jbhccm )
mod6: haha.
mod6: thx kako
mod6: But yeah, it's still has some leaks in there somewhere, as the R.I. died at least 2 different times from 1->current block, but no more than 3 times. Eitherway, this needs to get resolved. But at least we're headed in the right direction.
mod6: I just have a gut-feeling that perhaps as discussed in here before some of these leak problems stem from BOOST, which will be a pita to remove, but a requirement.
mod6: And perhaps could squash that bug at the same time. I need to do more work with gdb while it's sync'ing up to try to get a more accurate picture.
mod6: s/300Gb/350Gb/
mike_c: you think boost is leaking?
mike_c: i'm no boost fan, but it seems more likely it is in the usage of boost rather than the library itself.
mod6: well, indeed, that could be the case.
mod6: i'll find out, one way or another.
mod6: here's a snippit of what my .bitcoin/database dir looks like with the BDB patch compiled in:
assbot: dpaste: 36RSNH7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1JbkegG )
mod6: obv. a lot smaller and only seems to grow up to ~60 log files until it flushes them out.
mod6: mike_c: yeah, should have said "stem from or usage of BOOST" :]
mike_c: yeah, i'm sure you're right. smart pointers, shared pointers, I'm sure it's a minefield.
mod6: I still have a bit more testing to complete before the end of the month, but hopefully will get some additionally time over the remaining 13 days to debug more.
mod6: gah *additional
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00061515 = 6.4591 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15189 @ 0.00059806 = 9.0839 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15189 @ 0.0006244 = 9.484 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2011 @ 0.0006244 = 1.2557 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: !up tryphe
kakobrekla: !up Belxjander
BingoBoingo: <punkman> non-denominational is like the cheez whiz of religion << Some "non-denominational" churches seem to be the most "extreme" to be polite
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> <BingoBoingo> RagnarDanneskjol: Nice site http://thelogdailyreport.com/ << who is this? << That's RagnarDanneskjol
assbot: THE LOG DAILY REPORT ... ( http://bit.ly/13ikwS0 )
assbot: ikeboy +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
thestringpuller: !up ikeboy
ikeboy: I was here earlier talking about betting on paycoin
ikeboy: is anyone willing to bet against me that paycoin will be worthless in 2 weeks?
BingoBoingo: Probably not, any scam can be kept afloat for two weeks
ikeboy: They claim that they will buy any coins for $20 starting monday. If they don't, it will probably drop
ikeboy: afaik, that's the only thing giving it value right now, the expectation of a payout on monday
thestringpuller: just make bitbet and see what happens if you're so intrigued
ikeboy: bitbet doesn't have odds betting
ikeboy: so I can't know how much i get if im right
ikeboy: besides, i think the market would mostly agree with me, but there were some people on irc that didn't, so i want to get money out of them
ikeboy: i'm making a betmoose event right now
BingoBoingo: Well, the thing is... Which betting platform actually brings... bettors with money to the bets?
ikeboy: i don't know, i've made money on fairlay, but not in the amounts I want to bet on this
thestringpuller: ;;itkcer
gribble: Error: "itkcer" is not a valid command.
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
ikeboy: and predictious doesn't allow submitting bets
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 312.48, Best ask: 312.66, Bid-ask spread: 0.18000, Last trade: 312.67, 24 hour volume: 21603.61278539, 24 hour low: 304.99, 24 hour high: 325.61, 24 hour vwap: 313.689908828
assbot: Interlude: Sport betting isn't that big, Here's what is | Bingo Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1xsUuc4 )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 865 @ 0.0012 = 1.038 BTC
ikeboy: that link isn't that informative
thestringpuller: ikeboy: you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
ikeboy: explain?
ikeboy: I already said I'm not interested in bitbet
BingoBoingo: ikeboy: What odds interest you and why should other people be interested in them.
ikeboy: I'm interested in 10:1 odds on paycoin not being worth more than .01 BTC in 2 weeks
ikeboy: and anyone who has a greater than 90% that paycoin is going bust should pick this up
ikeboy: I would put up to ~2BTC on this, versus 20BTC
thestringpuller: yea, there is your problem small fry.
ikeboy: What's the problem? too small?
ikeboy: Don't tell me it's not worth $600 for someone to spend time setting it up
thestringpuller: it seems the only reason you want odds if for extended leverage.
thestringpuller: s/if/is/gc
ikeboy: what do you mean by that?
ikeboy: If you mean I can make more this way than by investing in paycoin directly, then yes
thestringpuller: no i mean what I said...
ikeboy: And people who were trying to convince me not to buy paycoin should be willing to put money behind that
ikeboy: what do you mean by leverage?
thestringpuller: ;;google leverage finance
gribble: Error: We broke The Google!
thestringpuller: well then
ikeboy: i'm trying to increase my return. what do you think I'm trying to do?
cazalla: buy more paycoin then, sure bet!
ikeboy: that has an expected 200% gain, and a bet may have a 900% gain
cazalla: not if you're unable to find someone to bet against, i'd take the sure thing while you can lol
thestringpuller: trying to run options on a bookie service
thestringpuller: dafuq is going on - marvin gaye
assbot: ikeboy +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
BingoBoingo: !up ikeboy
ikeboy: betmoose is here betmoose.com/bet/paycoin-to-be-worth-at-least-_01-btc-in-2015-1049
BingoBoingo: <ikeboy> And people who were trying to convince me not to buy paycoin should be willing to put money behind that << Not everyone who think Paycoin is a shit idea wants the same two week window you do.
ikeboy: ok, but they were trying to convince me that buying now to sell at $20 on monday is a bad idea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28600 @ 0.00060933 = 17.4268 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44950 @ 0.00062795 = 28.2264 BTC [+] {3}
Adlai: so paycoin has progressed from vaporware to real, nitrogen-rich altcoincrap?
ikeboy: does that mean you don't believe in it?
ikeboy: if so, i have a bet for you ...
Adlai: of course i believe in paycoin. it is the vehicle through which the prophet garza will lead the people from usury and incest to riches and glory
Adlai: "don't believe in paycoin" doesn't translate cleanly to "willing to bet on a subset of the possible failure scenarios, as opposed to all others"
BingoBoingo: Adlai: Well It's a fork of peercoin. The code was already there just needed magic number tweaks. Also Peercoin was cooler when it was still called PeePeeCoin
Adlai: whatever happened to the real peepeecoin. nobody wants to trade their overpriced shitcoins for kilos of processed manure?
ikeboy: so give your prob estimates for: paycoin being worth ~$20 in 2 weeks, paycoin being worth ~10 dollars in 2 weeks, paycoin being pretty much worthless in 2 weeks
Adlai: "worth" is the key word. it could be worth $30 on the bucket shops that choose to list it, but zero to the rest of the world.
ikeboy: worth as in I can sell it for a value on an open market like coin-swap
Adlai: oh look it's another cryptsy
Adlai: it's like cryptsy except without litecoin shoved down my throat at every turn
ikeboy: if I can sell it for $20, that means someone is willing to pay for it
Adlai: 900BTC 24h vol XPY/BTC wtf
ikeboy: so ... your prob estimates?
Adlai hasn't the faintest clue how deep the lemmings' pockets run
ikeboy: I'm going now, but the betmoose is here for anyone betmoose.com/bet/paycoin-to-be-worth-at-least-_01-btc-in-2015-1049
kakobrekla: why doenst he get ddosed?
Adlai: at that moment, kako was enlightened
kakobrekla checks
kakobrekla: nope, still ignorant
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if you wanted to, you could've determined mr. ddos by iterative kicking / process of deduction - long ago.
kakobrekla: yes i know
asciilifeform: but where'd be the sport in that.
Adlai: it could be that the ddoser is not ddosing himself. or that he's not ddosing people belonging to his site. or that he picks targets randomly, to give the illusion of unknown patterns.
kakobrekla: or maybe its offline atm.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: here's an elegant, though likewise unsporting pill against ddosman. require anyone outside of L1 to enter uncloaked on pain of instakick. there will be a set of 'lurkers' remaining who never die. among them will be our hero, who is then readily deduced.
asciilifeform: of course, this is largely a waste of time when one can simply walk away with the chumpnet (entirely unsecured, as discussed in past thread on subject)
BingoBoingo: Walk away with chumpnet, implement new bot, other things too prolly
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there isn't a bot.
assbot: Logged on 16-12-2014 01:04:22; asciilifeform: from the department of nyooz yoo can yooze - kakobrekla provided data from which we learn that ddos man has switched from ssdp to ntp 'amplification' attack (see literature.)
asciilifeform: and below.
BingoBoingo: I thought there was a bot on the trigger
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in that sense, yes
asciilifeform: but there isn't a 'botnet'
asciilifeform: there's just a sea of idiot boxes that should have been booted from the net long ago.
asciilifeform: by isp.
asciilifeform: 'amplification' idiocy is trivially tested for, and any isp which doesn't yank the offending lusers ought by all rights to be killed upstream
asciilifeform: see also 1990s, 'usenet death penalty.'
asciilifeform: (precedent)
kakobrekla: i think the least damaging way is to kick nicks that are idle sing sing-on
kakobrekla: s/sing/since
asciilifeform: wanna idle for >5 min, get in wot.
kakobrekla: smth like that
asciilifeform: so then.
kakobrekla: but bot can get in the wot.
asciilifeform: then we have a fungus among us.
kakobrekla: wait, you meant l2 trust?
kakobrekla: having a wot and having l2 trust not same thing.
asciilifeform: well yes, shorthand here.
asciilifeform: anyone who has voice, gets to idle as much as he likes
asciilifeform: others - only long enough to see who to ask for voice.
asciilifeform: that was, i think, the idea.
decimation: yeah i think that's a good plan
asciilifeform: naturally mr ddos will have nothing to do but move on to qntra, trilema, bitbet...
decimation: people outside of L2 can read the logs
kakobrekla: yes, but. kick wont do, you have to ban the idler or else it just rejoins. secondly, if we fail to voice ppl which we kinda do, they will be casualties.
asciilifeform: they are already casualties.
decimation: kakobrekla: one way around that issue would be to kick anyone who isn't in the wot (not L2)
asciilifeform: and i can only speak for myself, but i neglect voicing people because they don't ask.
asciilifeform: now they will have a reason to ask.
asciilifeform: the idlers who 'i'll join a hundred bitcoin-related channels, they're all the same to me!' are contemptible.
asciilifeform: (but i think mircea_popescu already said this)
decimation: I don't get the point to idling on a logged channel (without voice)
kakobrekla: hm. how about 1 min auto voice on join for unseen nicks?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: nah
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: easy spamatron
decimation: what about unseen nicks who are authed by gribble?
kakobrekla: registered nicks?
asciilifeform: registered << same easy spamatron
decimation: not quite as easy, but you are right
asciilifeform: anything mr spam can get $maxint of purely by perl script is useless
asciilifeform: this includes gribble-regged keys, incidentally
asciilifeform: we would be creating an incentive to flood wot with crud
asciilifeform: hence l2.
decimation: there is an incentive to do this anyway
decimation: nanotube might consider deleting wot ID's that haven't authed in a period of time
asciilifeform: so mr spam will walk them.
asciilifeform: like dogs.
asciilifeform: by perl script.
decimation: really I guess that's the same solution as Mr. Luke-jr
asciilifeform: remember that it's a wot
asciilifeform: you don't kill folks with a nuke by rolling it and crushing them under it
asciilifeform: you set it off, as designed
decimation: Like bitcoin, the wot database is going to grow forever
asciilifeform: wot is to be used as a wot to eliminate precisely this class of pest
asciilifeform: among others
decimation: asciilifeform: but this only works if one regards a n00b with utter contempt
asciilifeform: how else to regard ?
asciilifeform: !s the cold equations
assbot: 10 results for 'the cold equations' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=the+cold+equations
decimation: yeah, it's a good point
asciilifeform: wants less contempt? must become less contemptible.
asciilifeform: demonstrably.
decimation: which would basically require being personally known to someone in the wot
asciilifeform: decimation: that, or to make a good introduction of himself.
decimation: an introduction that couldn't be replicated by perl script
BingoBoingo: #bitcoin-assets-lobby
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: no. that just relocates the roaches, not kills.
asciilifeform: i like the idea of nuking drooling idlers who have no visible purpose
asciilifeform: ddos or no ddos
kakobrekla: honestly im not sure whats worse, autoddos or autoban.
decimation: it's not really a ban, it's more of a bouncer
TomServo: BingoBoingo: You're movie clip on qntra shows 'removed by user'. :(
kakobrekla: decimation just kicking is not enough
TomServo: Your* :(
asciilifeform: anyone who is kicked and auto-rejoins is ipso facto bot ?
decimation: is it possible to 'hook' ChanServ to intercept joins before they happen?
kakobrekla: nah pretty much everything these days has 'autorejoin' option
asciilifeform: incidentally, what do we need unvoiced users for at all? noobs can find the log www, and figure out who to pm from it
BingoBoingo: TomServo: THese things happen
kakobrekla: which was also responsible for a bunch of cloak fails
BingoBoingo: Well, sometimes assbot has downtime too.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.00121415 = 1.2142 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: that can be mitigated by secondary up only bot.
decimation: I thought cloak fails were associated with users who aren't sasl authed
asciilifeform: decimation: nope.
asciilifeform: decimation: i personally had cloak fail from a malfunctioning (hacked?) freenode node.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: +i ?
decimation: interesting.
kakobrekla: too much work
kakobrekla: ongoing
BingoBoingo: AH, only longterm solution seems to be an ircd foundation
decimation: no more like cryptoProt foundation
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: too much work << wouldn't it be approximately a one-liner? add to +i list upon voicing by assbot, remove when logged off / devoiced ?
asciilifeform: the observation that, on account of the log existing, we don't need human idlers for anything at all, was correct
asciilifeform: decimation: cryptoprot ?
decimation: I donno, what would you name your rsa/udp/wot idea?
asciilifeform: decimation: it has a name.
kakobrekla: what i meant was "pls invite" pms that would follow
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: how many of these we get now ?
kakobrekla: which i think you meant was to be refused
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: they are not necessarily to be refused, but there ought to be slightly higher expectations of work for the n00b to do in order to merit invite
asciilifeform: 'hi please let me in' should not do
asciilifeform: n00b should be expected to say at least a complete sentence re: why he should be let in to talk
asciilifeform: if he merely wants to listen - straight to www log.
decimation: asciilifeform: I guess I missed the name, what is it?
asciilifeform: decimation: you didn't miss it. i never said
asciilifeform: decimation: if you give a damn, it was called - on my own machine, which at present, is the only place it exists - 'kapelle'
asciilifeform: decimation: as in Die Rote Kapelle.
asciilifeform: but this is not a published gadget, and should not be regarded as proof - or even suggestion - of anything in particular.
asciilifeform: i'm almost sorry i mentioned it, now folks will expect it to exist
kakobrekla: and hypothetically given we have l2 +i, do we still need +m?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: haha, for what
kakobrekla: well you manually invite a 'new guy' take the chance it doesnt work out, you need some means to get rid of it?
asciilifeform: devoice -> uninvite
asciilifeform: mechanical.
asciilifeform: '!down' ought to suffice
kakobrekla: but if we dont have +m we are not up or down
asciilifeform: '!up' -> invite
asciilifeform: can use same command, no ?
asciilifeform: just different logic in it
kakobrekla: a you mean like down is +kb
BingoBoingo: Seems whole new IRC network is the solution instead of arguing freenode +i vs. +m conventions
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: we're discussing perhaps a ~1kb patch to kako's bot, rather than a serious project
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: but if you want to contribute a box or two for a 'parachute' network for #b-a, don't let this stop you
kakobrekla: ethical_cleansing.patch
decimation: freenode seems to attract folks like mr. spam
asciilifeform: does fleanode support 'knocking' ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, there are ideas. If a new network popped up parachute would be likely. Seems though that the root of current problem is freenode baring IPs and lacking any controling entity that could be convinced to do otherwise.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you probably know, but this is not the only problem with fleanode.
undata_: hosted in a five-eyes country might be another :p
undata_: or rather, owned by
kakobrekla: mp is gonna be pissed if we do this.
asciilifeform: i'm not sure whether the fact of something being planted in an 'eyes' country or not is even interesting. it's like the old saw about how a smoking section in a restaurant is quite like a pissing section in swimming pool.
undata_: asciilifeform: heh, point taken.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It depends on the kind of restaurant. I am pretty sure some restaurants would be intolerable if it wasn't for heavy smoking.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if mp likes n00bs, then let's see if he agrees that this should make their ordeal more rational (if not lighter) than it is currently.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: imho it will produce more interesting noobs - a challenge piques interest, selects for folks who aren't vegetables
kakobrekla: i think the main issue is he wont be able to take credit.
asciilifeform: actually he can
BingoBoingo: Everyone needs to eat their vegetables from time to time though
asciilifeform: seems that, in his absence, i'm filling in for him in role as 'cruel sargeant for n00bs'
asciilifeform: at least for this thread.
BingoBoingo: I think having had a GPG key fingerprint on an MPEx listed contract is the rough equivalent of a commision so asciilifeform at the worst you are probaby a captain by now.
asciilifeform: (soon i must go and [censored] and someone must take over!)
BingoBoingo: [censored] all of the keys
asciilifeform: el coronel no tiene quien le escriba, полковнику никто не пишет, полковника никто не ждет.
BingoBoingo remembers for the longest time in childhood the hometown having a metal wagon wheel fascimile supported on a post in the town square
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: reference to 'oregon trail' colonists, or to breaking on the wheel ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, given the height of the post and its location in SOuthern Illinois, probably the latter.
BingoBoingo: Seems hsitorically this was a "Sundown Town"
BingoBoingo: Though the first definition was probably offered by the time of my birth.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6491 @ 0.00063284 = 4.1078 BTC [+]
assbot: Vulnerability announced: update your Git clients · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1AMNl44 )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lol, toy os users only
BingoBoingo: More Windows, More OSx
kakobrekla: hm iirc gribble wont let you auth if you are not present on one of his blessed chans
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Yeah, I discovered that yesterday.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: should be easy fix, no ?
kakobrekla: afaik it is suppose to be a securitah feature and i dunno where nano stands on that.
asciilifeform: wake him up ?
kakobrekla: !up nanotube ping
asciilifeform doesn't grasp how this makes anything more secure
PeterL: you are trying to make it more complicated?
BingoBoingo: Oh, the dollar is crashing today! Against the Phillipine Peso!
kakobrekla: is there some override for invite for ops?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: '+I' iirc
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: not only for ops, either
asciilifeform: can make generic list of folks who are always invited
PeterL: so the change to voicing you are suggesting, we now need to join something like #bitcoin-otc, then auth with gribble, then we can join #bitcoin-assets, then we still need to pm assbot '!up'?
asciilifeform: PeterL: ideally, no
kakobrekla: PeterL we just need to make it complicated enough so Luke-Jr doesnt figure it out.
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0DY497N.txt )
PeterL: ;;gettrust assbot luke-jr
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Luke-Jr!~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr. Trust relationship from user assbot to user luke-jr: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 5 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=luke-jr | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=luke-jr | Rated since: Sat Feb 5 12:37:04 2011
Luke-Jr: kakobrekla: then none of you could either
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Staph trolling!!!
kakobrekla: yes troll
undata_: heh I am totally making a bitcoin overlay as a weekend project btw
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: kakobrekla is the one trolling :p
Luke-Jr: undata_: lol, just to change USE flag?
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: kakobrekla doesn't troll, he works hard for his cookies. No boat required.
undata_: Luke-Jr: no, to be sure when I emerge sync I don't unwittingly have more of your decisions foisted upon me
Luke-Jr: undata_: overlays won't do that
undata_: Luke-Jr: they will if I mask your turds
Luke-Jr: don't need an overlay to do that
Luke-Jr: just add to /etc/portage/package.mask
Luke-Jr: it doesn't force you to unmerge stuff either, and should notify you when there's an update being masked
Luke-Jr: btw, in case you didn't notice, I go out of my way to prevent any unwitting
undata_: Luke-Jr: I accept that your intent is to "do good"
undata_: anyhow I don't want to rehash it.
assbot: New Zealand couple manages to lock themselves in keyless car for 13 hours | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1JcwsWl )
asciilifeform: ;;rate Luke-Jr -1 persistent loon, defiler of gentoo, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-12-2014#955095 or inquire within
assbot: Logged on 16-12-2014 21:34:38; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: that would make sense; people seem to assume something monumentally stupid is worthless, but in practice it isn't.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user Luke-Jr has been recorded.
asciilifeform: ;;gettrust assbot luke-jr
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Luke-Jr!~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr. Trust relationship from user assbot to user luke-jr: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 6 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=luke-jr | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=luke-jr | Rated since: Sat Feb 5 12:37:04 2011
asciilifeform: !down Luke-Jr
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It takes time for assbot to update the rectum
mike_c: so I am an angry bitbet customer, and I want to come here for help. how do I get in if it is invite-only?
asciilifeform: mike_c: banner points you to www log. then pm of the folks appearing therein.
BingoBoingo: ^ Ah, case for keeping a vegetable garden element
mike_c: ok, I am a reporter for NYT, I have to do same dance?
asciilifeform: mike_c: sure.
asciilifeform: 'However, the door doesn’t automatically unlock when the interior handle is pulled—and therein lay the problem for the Smiths. According to the Times, the couple had been led to believe by their Mazda dealership that the key fob was the only way to unlock the doors; this mistaken impression, coupled with the fact that the vehicle was parked in their garage and that it was apparently too dark to clearly see the interior swi
asciilifeform: tches, led to the nearly fatal overnight stay.'
asciilifeform: vegetables.
asciilifeform: what a sad thing that they did not die.
asciilifeform: these were adults, with working hands.
asciilifeform: '... and they vote!'
Luke-Jr: lol
Luke-Jr: funny how I'm falsely accused of censorship, and the reaction here is to censor me ;)
PeterL: hands don't help much if you don't know where to put them
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: just like your victims, 'there was plenty of warning', 'no one unwitting', 'there were no victims'
mike_c: and the problem we are trying to solve here is that uncloaked noobs might get ddos'd.
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: I have no victims, I've not done anything wrong.
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: you are a hypocrite, nothing more
Luke-Jr: just saying
mike_c: the solution being, we lock them out.
asciilifeform: mike_c: idea was, we let them in when they are actual people with an actual reason for wanting in
Luke-Jr: mike_c: you realise the regulars/admins here are insane?
asciilifeform: beyond 'let me drool in this here bowl'
PeterL: so if an uncloaked noob comes by, asks for voice and gets let in, then they will be ddossed?
mike_c: Luke-Jr: they smell funny too
asciilifeform: PeterL: ddosed by whom ?
PeterL: whoever is ddossing now?
asciilifeform: PeterL: idea is that the idler parked here by mr ddos will die.
PeterL: oh, I see
mike_c: PeterL: my understanding is anyone who enters uncloaked, thereby flashing their IP, get ddos'd by the fucktarded bot that is lurking in here.
PeterL: and we assume the ddoser is outside the l2?
mike_c: idk, I think it's fine that we let them talk when they are actual people. how are they to become actual people if they can't listen?
asciilifeform: they can listen!
asciilifeform: on kako's www log.
mike_c: by hitting f5 on log.b-a?
mike_c: that sucks
PeterL: there is some benefit to seeing what is happening now, in reaction to events going on
asciilifeform: why does this need to happen in split-second parcels?
PeterL: and you loose some sense of the timing when you read the logs
asciilifeform: PeterL: understand, it isn't as if they can freely idle here now. ddos bot takes care of this.
asciilifeform: PeterL: proposed change transfers the initiative to actual people, and takes away whatever piece of it the spammer had.
asciilifeform: spammer should have - none.
PeterL: but really, you can learn alot more going over a few months of logs than trying to get lucky by finding something interesting happening right now at this moment
asciilifeform: think of it this way:
asciilifeform: we already have something quite like this system. just that it is being administered by an enemy.
mike_c: feels like cutting off head because enemy is making our nose itch.
mike_c: (what an analogy!)
asciilifeform: his head.
asciilifeform: at any rate, the folks whose gadget this is, can decide
asciilifeform: i can only suggest.
mike_c: kako is too easily swayed by a cookie or two.
assbot: Logged on 19-12-2014 01:44:12; BingoBoingo: Well, sometimes assbot has downtime too.
kakobrekla: gribble is what worries me.
PeterL: what happens if somebody tries to join the chan without auth/L2? do they get dumped into #bitcoin-assets-noobs?
kakobrekla: among other things, it is out of my control.
PeterL: have assbot take over the WoT?
kakobrekla: could only be done as completely separate auth
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: aha
asciilifeform: or ask nanotube to remove the peculiar must-be-in-channel thing
asciilifeform: (i'd love to hear a rationale for it)
kakobrekla: that has no effect on issues im presenting
asciilifeform: which issue?
PeterL: it's strange, you must be in chan, but you can auth in a pm, so why be in the chan?
kakobrekla: gribble down and out of control
PeterL: if gribble is afk, then nobody can get into this chan
asciilifeform: if gribble is down today, kakobrekla (and mircea_popescu ?) are still stuck manually upping folks
asciilifeform: PeterL: nobody but ops
PeterL: they would still be able to manually up people, right?
asciilifeform: PeterL: just like today, if gribble or assbot are down, only ops have voice
asciilifeform: PeterL: aha
PeterL: I think people can be voiced now manually if gribble is down but not if assbot is down?
kakobrekla: correct
asciilifeform: ops can operate the whole thing in manually-cranked mode, afaik
asciilifeform: when they're awake
kakobrekla: yes, can and willing to is not interchangeable
asciilifeform: just pointing out answer to 'can anything at all work when all bots are dead'
asciilifeform: that being, that all the controls have manual emergency cranks
PeterL: in the proposed system, can people join if assbot is down?
kakobrekla: option 2, move the auth to assbot and save another step (!up)
decimation: recreate nanobot's wot with assbot?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: what means 'move auth to assbot'
kakobrekla: idk, yet.
decimation: ;;gettrust assbot luke-jr
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Luke-Jr!~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr. Trust relationship from user assbot to user luke-jr: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 6 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=luke-jr | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=luke-jr | Rated since: Sat Feb 5 12:37:04 2011
PeterL: have a #bitcoin-assets WoT separate from #bitcoin-otc?
kakobrekla: but basically as far as i gather punkman already downloads wot data from otc
kakobrekla: for notary
asciilifeform: one of the things that always gave me the willies about the classic (nanotube's) wot is that operations are not signed
decimation: I don't get how level 2 has 0 connections, but joecool, nanotube and pankakke are connected to him?
kakobrekla: and keeps a seperate l2 records
kakobrekla: i can do same
asciilifeform: whatever happened to notarybot?
PeterL: decimation: there are a bunch of -1s which offset +1s
PeterL: it is not 0 connections, it is 0 score
decimation: ah I thought it was connection based
PeterL: asciilifeform: but you have to auth before making an operation, so it is almost like being signed
asciilifeform: PeterL: you have to - yes. mr i-owned-fleanode nsa clerk - no.
asciilifeform: PeterL: likewise annotations can be diddled
asciilifeform: on account of not having been signed
asciilifeform: and likewise timestamps
asciilifeform: nanotube's wot works, afaik, thus far, but a good chunk of it still lives in the old pre-cryptographic universe
PeterL: how would you add signatures here?
asciilifeform: PeterL: simply define a canonical wot as consisting of gpg-signed 'rate' commands
decimation: asciilifeform: another alternative: all chat is pm'ed to assbot, who posts it to the log
asciilifeform: with the signature encompassing the full text of said command
decimation: there is no channel
decimation: each chat is signed
asciilifeform: decimation: that's ugly
decimation: yes, but eliminates 'fleanode'
asciilifeform: decimation: nope
asciilifeform: unless you move the whole thing to a dedicated box with own irc. but then you advertise its ip in public
asciilifeform: and back to the start.
asciilifeform: or, at best, to mircea's suggestion of building a dedicated #b-a irc net.
BingoBoingo: #b-a irc net seems the only long term solution
BingoBoingo: With other less strict channels existing on the net
asciilifeform: re: wot: (question to all present) - how often do you re-read your own wot history?
asciilifeform: to check for anything you don't remember having done (or done to you)
asciilifeform: i'll guess, very rarely.
kakobrekla: i go through it a few times a year but for that reason particularly
asciilifeform: even if you do, there is no guarantee that other readers see the same thing you see
kakobrekla: not for*
asciilifeform: diddled, e.g., bitcoin-otc.com, can serve up anything it wants
asciilifeform: a diddle gribble - same
kakobrekla: well a diddled anything can anything
kakobrekla: news at 11?
asciilifeform: and guess what state of the art here is
asciilifeform: blockchain.
asciilifeform: i dare to invoke the 'parachute theorem' and say now, that when wot is taken seriously by intelligent and resourceful enemies, it will be rather late.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So you are saying BUY on namecoin
asciilifeform: and the formerly harmless softness and promise-based mechanisms will become serious holes in the armour.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nope
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there is precisely one worthwhile blockchain.
nanotube: asciilifeform: it's a way to track a person by hostmask, to provide persistent auth sessions. once we move to 'everything must be signed' there would be no need for auth sessions, and thus no need for people to be in particular channels shared with gribble.
asciilifeform: (iirc namecoin was recently shot in the head)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Or maybe you don't yet know you imply it. It's the only alt I know of with Satoshi commits
BingoBoingo: namecoin has been shot in the head many times
asciilifeform: nanotube: afaik everyone who frequents this channel is now cloaked
BingoBoingo: namecoin works best brainless
mike_c: yes, but he knows the nick didn't switch.
asciilifeform: !up undata
nanotube: asciilifeform: sure, but not everyone who uses the wot is in this channel or is cloaked :)
undata: asciilifeform: ty
asciilifeform does not know if nanotube is aware of the reason for this thread
nanotube: asciilifeform: not really. got an executive summary? :)
decimation: nanotube: there's a ddoser who spams anyone who joins #bitcoin-assets with a 'naked' ip with an ntp amplification attack
asciilifeform: nanotube: there is a ddos artist paid (apparently) to carry out an endless quest to interfere with #b-a and related projects. presently he has an idler parked here.
asciilifeform: nanotube: it points a ddosnet consisting of ntp and ssdp 'amplification' bots (misconfigured routers, typically) at the victim.
nanotube: well, that's a reason for people here to be cloaked. i remember hearing about that
asciilifeform: nanotube: many new users log in without cloak. and occasionally cloaks fail for reasons which do not reduce to user error
undata: yeah, sasl failed for me earlier
asciilifeform: there are, i surmise, parties which are actively trying to induce these error conditions en masse.
nanotube: yea, freenode unfortunately doesn't default-cloak people
undata: no idea why, but it left me without my cloak for a bit, as freenode wouldn't let me change nicks
asciilifeform: it is not hard to guess who they are.
asciilifeform: (the error-inducers)
asciilifeform: there was also a mass compromise of freenode boxes in sept. and who knows when else, and on what scale.
nanotube: yea i remember that too...
asciilifeform: the channels-shared-by-gribble thing also means that ddos idler bot, if expelled from #b-a, can move to one of the other channels.
asciilifeform: where the hooliganism can continue
asciilifeform: ultimately the very need for 'cloaks' is a bizarre misfeature
asciilifeform: from a pre-cryptographic dark age
nanotube: aye, indeed.
asciilifeform: (or, if you prefer, golden age, 'garden of eden')
decimation: given how obvious this flaw is, one wonders why no one has undertaken to fix it
PeterL: so the question for you: would it be possible to let people auth without being in a chan with gribble?
nanotube: it is being worked on. but have a lot of other stuff on my plate. once everything is signed, there will not even be a need for something like "auth".
asciilifeform: if i understand correctly, nanotube's explanation resolves to this being an anti-mitm mechanism
nanotube: asciilifeform: well, more like an anti "guy leaves, some other guy comes in on same ip, and gribble has no way of knowing about it, unless they share a channel and gribble can see quits"
asciilifeform: isomorphic to mitm.
asciilifeform: nanotube: incidentally, what is to become of the present wot when a hypothetical 'everything is signed' wot is built ?
PeterL: so instead of just saying "eauth peterl", now we will say "eauth peterl <signature by key goes here>"?
nanotube: PeterL: you'll say "rate dude 1 signature". why even a separate 'auth' step?
PeterL: we use it here to verify people are who they say they are
asciilifeform: nanotube: everyone gets to re-send their collected ratings with signature ?
nanotube: asciilifeform: i'm hoping for a gradual transition, as people upgrade their ratings with signed packets. after a sunset period, all unsigned ratings may be ignored
PeterL: that helps with ratings, but does not help the current voicing model of #b-a
asciilifeform: nanotube: we were contemplating ways to expel the ddos idler from the channel in a permanent and generic way.
nanotube: PeterL: oh well, i guess auth can stay for that purpose. or you can just send a signed message to assbot directly, in theory.
nanotube: asciilifeform: hrm... that's a tough problem. how?
decimation: assbot would them pm the list of interested parties?
PeterL: so instead of authing with gribble, we send auth message to assbot? one step instead of 3, sounds good to me
asciilifeform: nanotube: the only readily apparent way is '+i'
asciilifeform: nanotube: with inviter mechanism bolted onto assbot
nanotube: asciilifeform: yes... but then the squatter will just squat on the 'gateway' channel where people get forwarded when they are not invited
asciilifeform: nanotube: except there wouldn't be one. people would be asked to read kakobrekla's www log.
asciilifeform: if they wish to lurk.
decimation: if they wish to auth, they pm assbot
nanotube: hm and how do new people get in
asciilifeform: they read kakobrekla's www log, see who to pm, make a brief case for being invited
nanotube: and what prevents squatter from doing that, from several different identities?
PeterL: would we need to pm assbot to get a challenge to decrypt, or could it be something like we just send assbot the signature of "auth <wot name> <current time>"?
nanotube: and then waiting for a while
nanotube: PeterL: that depends on assbot coder. :)
asciilifeform: nanotube: he will have to go beyond passing the turing test, and into fabricating an interesting and invite-worthy personality each time.
asciilifeform: nanotube: if he can do this, he deserves to be here.
PeterL: ^ directed at kakobrekla
nanotube: haha
decimation: and if he managed to make it on, he would be identified by the brains of those on the channel and quickly kicked
nanotube: PeterL: still way too early to worry about it though :)
asciilifeform: nanotube: let's look from another angle. right now, noobs are virtually banned from #b-a. but the ban is enforced by a hooligan, not by any of us
asciilifeform: nanotube: my suggestion was to expel the enemy with an only slightly less annoying mechanism that is at least controlled by actual people, and not by spamming scum
asciilifeform: and therefore functions predictably and perhaps in some way constructively.
nanotube: well, i hope it works. i'd be curious to see.
PeterL: nanotube: I don't think the change I am suggesting would require any change of gribble, just adding a separate auth to assbot
nanotube: PeterL: indeed that is correct.
asciilifeform: nanotube: it can only work if folks can authenticate with assbot (and hence with gribble, or equivalent) without exposing hostname
asciilifeform: separate auth to assbot would work, but how to feed through wot ?
asciilifeform: synchronized copy ?
decimation: why not have assbot (or a slave bot) simply pm everyone a copy of signed messages?
asciilifeform: decimation: because ugly
asciilifeform: weirdo protocol that would only by happenstance operate over irc
PeterL: decimation: how to sign messages in irc client?
decimation: well, yeah that part would be annoying
decimation: but at least it would be a step in the right direction
decimation: and it would eliminate most of the dependence on freenode infrastructure
asciilifeform: decimation: right now there is no ready mechanism (except in my experiment, described earlier) for pronouncing ephemeral ('hot', machine-readable) keys for rapid signing
asciilifeform: and even if there were, it would be unsuitable for safety-critical signatures (e.g., wot ratings)
decimation: aye good point.
asciilifeform: at any rate, the correct way to use it would be to have a proggy emulate an irc server and connect ordinary client to it
nanotube: use pastebin to pass a signed message to the bot. assbot can just grab the user database on a regular basis to keep current.
asciilifeform: so as to have the ui we are accustomed to
asciilifeform: to the extent it makes sense to do it
asciilifeform: hardwired dependence on pastebin then ?
asciilifeform: seems shaky
decimation: how do we know that pastebin's 'bins' are immutable?
asciilifeform: if pasting a signed ephemeral message, no need
asciilifeform: but it can still go down, or lose bits selectively
decimation: ah, but then assbot would need a 'hot key'
asciilifeform: not encrypted. signed.
decimation: ah well who generates the signed message? gribble?
decimation: a moderator?
asciilifeform: actually it'd have to be encrypted, or mitm vector.
asciilifeform: picture dr. evil sitting on 'pastebin', waiting.
asciilifeform: !up undata
PeterL: why not have assbot do what gribble does now for authing?
asciilifeform: iirc someone suggested this
PeterL: auth to assbot in a pm, that gives you voice?
asciilifeform: assbot with synchronized copy of gribble wot.
asciilifeform: then, if you want to rate, still have to auth with gribble again though
asciilifeform: annoying.
PeterL: then once you are in you can auth with gribble too if you need to update any ratings
PeterL: (or just send a signed rating message once that gets implemented)
asciilifeform: eventually wot must consist of signed packets.
PeterL: lol, I can't read and type at the same time
asciilifeform: afaik this was probably obvious to everyone from the start.
PeterL: yes, and so you will no longer have to auth with gribble, just assbot
decimation: asciilifeform: agreed, but it might be impractical. consider a 'firewall' that is checking mr spam's packets all day
decimation: I suspect the crypto would need to be done on an fpga
asciilifeform: decimation: why ?
asciilifeform: decimation: nobody cancelled flood-banning
asciilifeform: no actual human transmits $maxint whatevers from a single ip per second/hour/etc
decimation: what 'handle' are you going to use for banning? ip address?
decimation: what if mr. spam learns the ip of a friend?
asciilifeform: decimation: you're entirely correct that this will eventually be a thing, though. hence the need for stateless, single-packet auth hellos.
asciilifeform: as in my experiment.
decimation: agreed
asciilifeform: easiest to move to custom si.
decimation: indeed
decimation: a high-end fgpa would be perfectly capable of passing full pipe of signed packets
asciilifeform: other nice thing about signed packets is that it no longer matters where they came from.
asciilifeform: can be another link.
asciilifeform: or shortwave.
asciilifeform: or courier.
decimation: or usb stick in a box
kakobrekla: so we are still were we were.
kakobrekla: where
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: folks suggested assbot having a synchronized copy of gribble's wot
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: and opening the gates using it
kakobrekla: and you dont like it cause double auth for rating
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: this would not require nanotube making any change to gribble, but would add an annoying extra step of having to auth a second time for rating
asciilifeform: me? i don't care
PeterL: how often do you rate people?
asciilifeform: but i imagine some of the folks here would be annoyed
asciilifeform: if only out of principle
asciilifeform: 'we do not go through weird gymnastics on account of terrorists' or the like
decimation: ultimately this could just move the problem to #bitcoin-otc or something
PeterL: and it will not be an extra step to rate people when he makes the changes he suggested
asciilifeform: let's see what mircea thinks when he gets back from his atomic dirigible voyage or wherever
decimation: although one wonders why mr. spam targets this channel instead of -otc
decimation: seems like there would be more likely targets there
asciilifeform: decimation: i can't picture forgoing a cockroach repellent simply because it may move the roaches to your neighbour
decimation: for shakedown
PeterL: people who matter are here, not there?
decimation: asciilifeform: indeed
asciilifeform: decimation: i'll take mr spam's word re: him having been paid to vandalize #b-a rather than -otc
assbot: HP Will Release a “Revolutionary” New Operating System in 2015 | MIT Technology Review ... ( http://bit.ly/1C66GRJ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30100 @ 0.00063527 = 19.1216 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: undata: Yeah, they labeled their thing "The Machine"
BingoBoingo: last year
undata: how vague
asciilifeform: 'His team aims to complete an operating system designed for The Machine, called Linux++...'
asciilifeform: ^ c/unix/extant turdolade
asciilifeform: i don't care if it's made out of unicorn tears.
asciilifeform: !up undata
decimation: I think they developed some kind of persistant hybrid ram/flash storage
kakobrekla: core memory on chip?
BingoBoingo would like to rip all of the memory out of "The Machine" and air drop it to asciilifeform in 2010 with a duffelbag full of money
undata stops being lazy and auths
asciilifeform: decimation: not hybrid, if their literature is to be believed, but rather a 'flash' fast and durable enough to substitute for dram entirely
BingoBoingo: ^ Durable fast flash
asciilifeform: decimation: but it will be wasted on 1970s garbage os
decimation: asciilifeform: whether it is this or another thing, the difference between filesystems and memory will soon be abolished
decimation: indeed
asciilifeform: decimation: it was already abolished on 'palm pilot'
asciilifeform: big whoop.
asciilifeform: as if this were enough to be interesting.
PeterL: "In particular, the company needs to perfect a new form of computer memory based on an electronic component called a memristor" << so, they just need to figure out how to make the core feature work, then they are all set!
decimation: but that's not multi-threaded!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Palm V and I have great memories. My only regret is that PalmV and TI-89 never traded the best of their aspects
asciilifeform: the real boojum is that c/unix/von neumann crapolade cannot abide the constraint of never-reboot.
undata predicts there will just be drivers that establish one part of ram as a ramdisk
undata: and it will be linux as usual
asciilifeform: undata: 100% certain
decimation: agreed
asciilifeform: or there'd be no talk of google or arsebook etc. taking it up
decimation: poettering will even make it auto-detect laptop flash-ram-whatever automatically
PeterL: "but that is how we have always done programming!"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo had a ti-89 ?
asciilifeform misplaced both of his, is contemplating getting another
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yeah. I liked it too
decimation: sadly hp has denegrated the proud hp line
BingoBoingo: And then I sold it for booze money freshman year of college
decimation: hp-48 rpn calcs
BingoBoingo: decimation: Poettering is why horses invented the wagon wheel
asciilifeform ought to sell his hp-16c
asciilifeform: can then buy a crate full of ti
BingoBoingo: lolololololol
decimation: asciilifeform: you aren't an rpn fan?
decimation: or you just find the hp collectors amusing?
asciilifeform: i actually like the simplicity of it
decimation: holy crap they go for like $100-300
asciilifeform: and the never-delay-after-keypress
asciilifeform: usually north of 200 usd
decimation: it's pretty much the most lispy calc ever made
asciilifeform: 16c? hardly
asciilifeform: 48 - sure
decimation: well, 38/48
asciilifeform: the history of the 16c is interesting, imho
asciilifeform: its very existence presumes that people program on paper, far from a computer
decimation: was that the one that was popular with the finance types?
decimation: the annoying thing to me (growing up on a -48) was that the 16 only displayed one stack element at a time
asciilifeform: that was 12c
asciilifeform: (financial)
asciilifeform: it, interestingly, is still produced!
asciilifeform: they're dirt-common and i have one also.
asciilifeform: 16c vanished with the age of programming-on-paper.
decimation: HP has recently conspired with the 'testing' folks to create a dumbed-down 'modern' version: http://ncees.org/exams/calculator-policy/
assbot: NCEES: Calculator policy ... ( http://bit.ly/1C6b3MK )
asciilifeform: of what is the 33/35s a dumber version ?
decimation: well, it kinda does stack oriented calculation, but isn't a fully programmable calc like the -48
decimation: I guess because 'cheating' or something
BingoBoingo got TI-89 soley because of test policy
BingoBoingo: The first time...
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what test ?
decimation: yeah it would be interesting to know about a test that allows ti-89
asciilifeform: decimation: there is a tradition in u.s. schools where folks can bring calculators to exams where they are known to be of no use
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The AP-Calc AB test. There was a class training for it, but the local recommendation was anything TI preferably 83. I read and saw -89 with the CAS and decided fuck that.
decimation: asciilifeform: that was how much undergrad was
asciilifeform: decimation: calculator is a kind of child's 'security blanket' (psychiatric term of art)
decimation: calculators don't help you cheat much on a three question engineering exam where you show full work
asciilifeform: for all i know, they let students use laptop now, on exam.
BingoBoingo: I got the calculator realizing that I was not buying it to use as a calculator, but as a standards conforming computer in a particular scenario
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: still use it, now that no exams ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: As mentioned kept it till college and sold it for intoxicants
BingoBoingo: Would like to buy another
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ever 'overclock' ti-series machines for chums when in school ?
BingoBoingo: But in math classes at college calculators were rather useless
BingoBoingo: I overclocked a couple for people who had pirate Z80 (gameboy) games
asciilifeform still has a small box of the variable capacitors used for this, somewhere, deep beneath eons of dust
asciilifeform: gameboy emulated on 89 (68k) or what
asciilifeform: or somehow modded to run on 83-6 series
asciilifeform: (which had actual z80, but nothing resembling nintendo's peripherals)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00064085 = 2.3711 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Gameboy was straight Z80
BingoBoingo: Ran on calc with emulator if I remember right
BingoBoingo: *89 though was 68 k
BingoBoingo: and I dun remember what 83 series did
asciilifeform: iirc all ti graphical calculators but 89 and 92 models were z80 boxes.
asciilifeform once owned a 85, then 86, then two separate incarnations of (68k) 89
asciilifeform never had the others
BingoBoingo: *86 seems appealing on case aesthetics
decimation: the original hp48 had great design
asciilifeform: it was more or less an 85 with extra ram
decimation: then the hp49 was a lousy ti knockoff (chassis-wise) but the software was excellent
decimation: the hp48 was very close to being the original portable computing gadget
decimation: for awhile there was an active usenet group swapping warez
asciilifeform: the uninitiated wonder 'why program hp48 today'
asciilifeform: reasons are all described in my 'bed laptop' thread.
mats: 22:36:46 <+decimation> given how obvious this flaw is, one wonders why no one has undertaken to fix it << some #freenode regulars (may have been staff, i don't recall) claim that default cloaks interfere with channel moderation
asciilifeform: mats: pre-crypto dark age.
decimation: the obvious fix would be to hash ip addresses with a private salt
asciilifeform: mats: relying on stone knives, bear skins, ip for authentication
mats: something about being unable to wholesale ban /16
decimation: lol why would that be needed?
mats: yes, i suggested this, but then it became 'there are a host of other ways to compel privacy leak'
decimation: and if such a custom requirement were needed, why not add as a filter in front of the irc daemon
mats: without explanation.
asciilifeform: hp48 etc << hold in one hand in bed? yes! run on set of batteries for half a year - yes! usable outdoors - yes!
decimation: asciilifeform: exactly
asciilifeform: now if there were a computer answering these - then i would buy.
decimation: there are even reasonable text readers available
decimation: I remember using one in my high school, running sgp4 to predict satellites rising
decimation: plus there were some excellent games
mats: i for one would like to know what these other methods are. there was a vague finger wag at attacking services
asciilifeform: mats: among the most elementary 'leak' is links
decimation: yeah if someone hacked a freenode server, game over obviously
decimation: but presuming that isn't the case, there is no reason to freely share ips
decimation: twitter, facebook, google, etc all connect millions of users are many servers without this
mats: commence discussion on how to design an ircd resistant to these problems.
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