asciilifeform: jurov: gonna luvv this bait, i suspect
asciilifeform: diana et al are in wrong, imho, profession -- could become superstars in u.s. politics, what with the mastery of outta-context quotes, smear job, proclamations of imaginary 'failures', etc
asciilifeform: imho, when mp was trying to 'back seat driver' tbf, it at least made ~some~ kinda sense -- d00d orig. agitated for its creation , even sent some coin (in jurov's place, i'd've sent it back a while ago), even sent in orig. tarball and a patch (db locks) . but diana ?
jurov: Oh it's fine, I thought diana has some much bigger problem with the foundation (or me personally) than just "no outreach".
asciilifeform: jurov: this aint ruled out by the article, imho
asciilifeform: simply if you were to address 1 'problem', there'll be N+1th, ad infinitum, as req'd
jurov: Whatever, I'm not going to engage with this. If mod6 and others hesitated with outreach, that does have its reasons, and these reasons are clear to anyone who has read the logs.
jurov: (the actual logs, not mp's commented versions)
asciilifeform: jurov: don't mistake diana's thing for 'attempt to engage'. it's transparently attempt to set up a 'jurov stole!! tbf!!' narrative for the consumption of the church-of-mp remnant crew
asciilifeform: it isn't possible to 'win debate' w/ religious fanatic.
jurov: I try to debate not to win, instead to get useful information.
asciilifeform: jurov: what info do you still wish from diana et al ? imho pretty clear what the party line there is.
asciilifeform: she quite evidently aims for role of 'apostle on earth of the departed christ'
snsabot: (ossasepia) 2020-06-02 diana_coman: jurov you do realise that there are eulora players with negative ratings from mp and yes, they are not affected; does this answer your question?
jurov: and the following line - so it was necessary to issue statement that rating won't affect eulora players. isn't that funny?
asciilifeform: jurov: not clear to me what 'rating from mp' means any moar (afaik he hasn't updated since november, e.g. mine's still +...) or what concretely means for his services (e.g. jurov's was + but 'fuckyou, no coin' etc)
asciilifeform: statements of 'how it worx' have meaning when they come outta folx who actually try for consistency; but not so much from 'make up as i go' people
jurov: no, you parse it too concretely
jurov: it is in fact admission that outside eulora, people *might* have a problem
jurov: (and we know, they did)
asciilifeform: i haven't any reason to think that he won't dekulakize or otherwise expel a eulora player if somehow finds it worthwhile 'to make point'
asciilifeform: that's the thing, once yer a loose cannon, yer a loose cannon
asciilifeform: there is no 'only loose on tuesdays'
trinque: aha, swearings do not unbreak
asciilifeform: trinque: hm?
trinque: just restating what you'd said.
trinque: I ran a business for 6 years with no contract with the other guy, handshake only.
trinque: it worked because we never broke it, but it'd only have taken once
asciilifeform runs whole buncha personal biz this way, as prolly most folx do
trinque: at year six the lawyers finally bent our arms to get one, but it was mostly that our own swearings weren't visible to others
trinque: sure, as any sane person
jurov: see. you never had a reason to issue such funny statements, me too.
trinque: back on subj, it's a troubling human trait that truth is the first thing to die when WoTs fracture
trinque: damages all participants.
asciilifeform: indeed
asciilifeform: 'both get dirty, but the pig enjoys'(tm)
trinque: I suspect diana's account is motivated by an earnest aversion to repeating the same mistakes, combined with the plain fact of continued business with mp.
trinque: at some point folks gotta decide with whom the shall deal, and let it be.
trinque: or forever fester in nonsense.
asciilifeform: trinque: i'd have much easier time taking seriously the 'avoid repeat mistakes' and other philosophies of diana if it weren't for her princely pay (in hard coin) from mp (i'ma not touch the q of 'for what', folx can run their biz how they like, tho the pretense of 'public co. w/ reports' is wearing thin imho)
trinque: I suspect that if enough technological achievements accumulated around bitcoin, they'd speak for themselves as bitcoin has.
trinque: asciilifeform: eh I can name plenty of other companies that ran at a loss for years because the founder had deep pockets.
trinque: I think Eulora is exactly what's on the label.
asciilifeform: ftr i've nuffin against eulora , as concept, or implementation, etc. simply was never personally very interested
trinque: also to turn now towards the past and say "all this notional value was bullshit" is true, but kinda misses the point.
trinque: all startup items, even cults, are built atop notional value and nothing else
asciilifeform: clearly to the participants, has value
asciilifeform thanks the fates that he never ended up in a position like diana's -- it is roughly like being on vatican payroll ; suppose yer a cardinal and suddenly realize 'god dun exist', nao wat.
jurov: i assure you many cardinals operate under such assumption :)
asciilifeform: jurov: no doubt. but picture what it does to the brain.
asciilifeform: at any rate, i've nuffin against folx blowing coin on feeding parasites/pets for personal pleasure, building gigantic statues, etc. it makes world moar interesting place. and it's their coin, not mine. but pretense 'this is a Big Biz! will take over planet!' is imho thin.
jurov: let's move on. asciilifeform: you offered hosting?
asciilifeform: jurov: i indeed offer hosting
asciilifeform: jurov: what wouldja like hosted ?
jurov: for now the website and lxr
asciilifeform: absolutely can do
asciilifeform: jurov: how much storage needed ?
jurov: about 1GB. what's the smallest offer? rockchip?
asciilifeform: rk. 256GB .
jurov: That's fine.
asciilifeform: can be in place before nightfall tomorrow (6 jun, new york time)
asciilifeform: jurov: any special softs needed, aside from apache ?
jurov: that's ok if i can compile rest myself
asciilifeform: ok worx
asciilifeform will prepare the requested box
jurov: Good!
jurov: I'd like to host mirrors, too, but it wouldn't make sense to have them there on same pipe as dulap? or dulap is elsewhere?
asciilifeform: dulap, being mine, lives of course in same rack
jurov: Right. For mirrors, I'll shop elsewhere.
asciilifeform: aite. mirrors rly oughta be geographically spread.
asciilifeform: '3 oughtn't smoke from same match'(tm)
asciilifeform: jurov: maybe ask BingoBoingo re mirrors, as i understand he is operating a very respectable trb fleet across 4 continents, see if he wants to mirror also.
asciilifeform: i'ma cross-post to his ch
jurov: ty, he is also here
asciilifeform bbl: meat biz
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-06-05#1000492 <<< lulzy read, and no mention of all about how similar "Eulora outreach" went.
asciilifeform: see, shinohai , 'sovereign' owes nuffin to 'scum', certainly not explanations. only reverse, 'scum owes infinitely'.
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/therealbitcoin/2020-06-05#1000500 <<< Bad week for remaining crew, of which only 1 full member left. slobsonknobbes quit, BingoBoingo was moved.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-06-05 13:48:10 asciilifeform: jurov: don't mistake diana's thing for 'attempt to engage'. it's transparently attempt to set up a 'jurov stole!! tbf!!' narrative for the consumption of the church-of-mp remnant crew
asciilifeform: shinohai: dun worry, jfw & co. still around, victory on eastern front before christmas!11
shinohai: Surely.
asciilifeform: ^ jurov et al.
shinohai: lmfao
asciilifeform: just in case anyone still suffered illusions re 'constructive dialogue' w/ mp or his golems.