spyked: http://ossasepia.com/2020/06/01/ossasepia-logs-for-Jun-2020/#1026605 <-- lol, possibly. depends what's in the rss feed. poor thing has no notion of 'categories', it just looks for things it hasn't seen before; and usually when you !1subscribe to a new feed, everything's 'new'
sonofawitch: 2020-06-01 21:46:44 (#ossasepia) diana_coman: spyked did feedbot spit out the *full* category feed in #eulora now?
diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/06/01/ossasepia-logs-for-Jun-2020/#1026616 - spyked, I was under the impression that new subscriptions get some "last 5" or similar initial start rather than "all new" since otherwise it would mean that every time one subscribes to a new blog they would get the full history of that blog dumped no matter how long? or what am I missing there?
sonofawitch: 2020-06-02 08:45:57 (#ossasepia) spyked: http://ossasepia.com/2020/06/01/ossasepia-logs-for-Jun-2020/#1026605 <-- lol, possibly. depends what's in the rss feed. poor thing has no notion of 'categories', it just looks for things it hasn't seen before; and usually when you !1subscribe to a new feed, everything's 'new'
diana_coman: jfw the hand-cranked scrolling in yrc is awful, apparently there are lines that I just don't manage to get on screen with page up/down, at all, how is that even possible? I end up having to read the chan from the log instead, ugh.
spyked: diana_coman, that is a setting in wordpress, not feedbot.
diana_coman: spyked oh, you mean the bot just takes as many entries as the blog shows on one page of feeds?
diana_coman: the wordpress setting is to my mind for showing on a page, not quite the same (nor really wordpress/blog's concern) as what "new subscription" might mean, hm.
diana_coman: on a page I *want* all of them indeed; on a new subscription though not so sure.
spyked: yeah, it doesn't make any decisions re. the handling of items, it just announces them.
spyked: diana_coman there seems to be some intertwining between rss generation and post-list pagination in wp that I never got. it kind of irks me too, e.g. http://thetarpit.org/category/asphalt shows only a few items, so if I set it to show more, feedbot will probably start spamming the same way
spyked: prolly this would require a fix on both ends; it should be possible to disable pagination for article lists *and* set the number of rss items separately from pages
spyked: or perhaps pagination is useless altogether, not sure if anyone has any need for it
spyked: prolly feedbot could also have a per-feed knob of "number of items to sync at a given time", but this leads back to the problems in that http://thetarpit.org/2019/feed-bot-spec-proposal#fn:9 discussion; either way, I don't see a choice that wouldn't lead me to supporting only a subset of the rss standard (I'd have to make assumptions about ordering in within rss feeds/channels etc.)
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2020/si-mami/ << Trilema -- Si, mam
diana_coman: jurov you can voice yourself with deedbot.
diana_coman: no need to wait for me or anything
jfw: diana_coman: yes, that's the scrolling based on source lines rather than wrapped output awfulness; can certainly be fixed.
diana_coman: jfw so... when?
jfw: (a workaround I've used is to switch to the scrollback pane with 'Ins' then scroll linewise.)
jfw: diana_coman: reckon I could get to at least some of the remaining problems later this week
diana_coman: hm, iirc you meant among other things to push yrc as the irc client to use for all jwrd clients; so dunno, are you going to go about suggesting them various workarounds for usability now?
diana_coman: for that matter, I gather poor dorion took it as it was and never complained properly, huh; dorion - don't let the tech start pushing workarounds, software *can* be fixed, just...complain about it, loudly! lol
jfw: I'd rather not have to, sure.
jfw: I think I did more complaining about it than any prior users, heh
diana_coman: you did? as in complained about it to yourself or how?
jfw: (first version didn't keep logs for example)
jfw: even out loud sometimes!
diana_coman: or you complained louder and first so nobody else got a chance to add to it!! I see
diana_coman: ahaha - was anyone impressed by the out-loud complaints?
jfw: heh, don't recall them noting either way.
diana_coman: lol, that can't have been loud *enough* then
diana_coman: jfw so now that scrolling in yrc will be fixed by the end of this week - what else is in your shall-not-be-written-because-then-it-doesn't-count plan for this week?
jfw: diana_coman: one thing not noted yet that's bugged me, and I wonder if you think it's even a problem vis-a-vis the pasting discussion, is copying text from the terminal for opening links or otherwise, given the split layout
diana_coman: hm, so far I didn't really need that and kind of still finding my way around it; atm I've set it up on a remote machine and connecting to it from all sorts too so not exactly a very settled setup otherwise
jfw: diana_coman: there's more lesson & homework development, writing, moving the health plan application along, and communications re cutting off the Panama apartment
jurov: trinque: deedbot says i can't voice myself, or I need to try !!up ossassepia or something like?
diana_coman: jurov it's !!up #ossasepia jurov
diana_coman: usually the chan name is tripping people up
jurov: diana_coman: ty
diana_coman: np
diana_coman: !!help
diana_coman: the help page is updated too afaik
jurov: diana_coman: and the "jibe" expresses my disgust and departure from the detrimental verbiage that surrounded TMSR.
jurov: the foundation it will never be apolitical by nature, but I'd rather focus, first fix bitcoin codebase, then fix software development as such, then larger thing
jfw: diana_coman: ack re not-settled-yet setup, no rush (well on my part at least which I guess you've noticed!)
diana_coman: jurov - if I understand this correctly, you mean that you want to focus on the trb codebase (or what is bitcoin codebase?) and otherwise the political part is implicit/by nature so not a direct concern; is this correct?
jurov: diana_coman: correct. and "bitcoin codebase" includes a wallet which is due to be separated from trb, and possibly also block explorer
diana_coman: for the logs and ftr, TMSR as an organization did not at any point promote talking without doing; that some indulged in that is their own personal doing, not TMSR's.
diana_coman: jurov - is this bitcoin wallet and block explorer some parts/bits that you/ben did while out of the loop as you say or do you mean they are first/next on the list of to do or how?
diana_coman: because following the logs of #therealbitcoin, I saw stan's statement that trb should be left as it is, further reiterated in response to jfw's questions.
jurov: you should know better from eulora how the "leave everything in stone as is" ends up, no?
jurov: re: wallet I think about salvaging good parts of electrum2, but when I get to it, I don't know.
diana_coman: for the logs: the statement that trb should be left as it is and the discussion following jfw's questions on it
snsabot: (therealbitcoin) 2020-05-11 asciilifeform: asciilifeform's pov re trb worx ftr
snsabot: (therealbitcoin) 2020-05-15 jfw: asciilifeform: mind expanding on what you mean by leave it the fuck alone and why?
jurov: diana_coman:yes, i am aware of that and it is the current status quo but we will see if it is possible long term.
jurov: and re: blockexplorer, there's mimisbrunnr, waits for when ben returns or someone else picks it up
diana_coman: from the same logs, I had read also that jurov had only "meddled a bit with trb mempool and then tuned out" so I admit that I'm at a loss now re 1. that block explorer and wallet 2. why/how/in what exactly is jurov all of a sudden interested again
diana_coman: jurov well, it was possible for years already so pretty long term, I'd say
jurov: because mod6 was pretty desperate and I'd hate to see it just die
diana_coman: I can imagine that indeed; and ftr I'm quite sorry about how it all turned out for mod6 indeed.
diana_coman: jurov what is it that you'd have to see just die
diana_coman: ?
diana_coman: hate*
jurov: you don't want the foundation go on?
jurov: or what was your idea that considerations for wallet and explorer surprise you?
diana_coman: jurov I am not sure I see what this "the foundation" is, to go on; and if I stretch the definition of being to include those many years when the "status quo" as you put it just kept going, I don't think I want it to go on like that, no.
diana_coman: jurov ah, not considerations; I read that as "there is this software too" so I was surprised that the said software parts exist already and I had no idea about them; it turns out you meant them as plans, so that makes sense and no surprise;
jurov: They are plans for me because I am to study and sign them.
diana_coman: but otherwise - jfw and dorion as part of their jwrd work have an offline wallet and jfw plans to publish that as far as I know; not sure what is the foundation's claim/space otherwise since it was created initially as part of tmsr outreach really, not just library of code; that closed down, the foundation now aims to still be what exactly, an actual foundation? do you plan to raise funds and all
diana_coman: that or what?
diana_coman: also, atm from what I understand, ben vulpes is not active; does he intend to become active co-chair for this re-defined foundation?
jurov: That is all tbd.
jurov: Why do you ask, you won't work with me unless I exactly plan everything in detail?
diana_coman: jurov - if you don't mind, what is it that you consider valuable in the foundation as it currently stands?
diana_coman: jurov - I am trying to understand what it is that you mean to do - not in detail but as approach and especially the causes at the root of it all because it's those that decide in the end what happens further "in detail" as you put it
jurov: The notion of deep study and careful improvements instead of "cool" feature development.
jfw: ftr, our wallet is built to a spec from last year, vpatches are at gbw-node, gbw-signer, and the interpreter gscm, what's missing is mainly writeups introducing those.
diana_coman: jurov while I was never part of the foundation, I don't think I ever followed "cool" feature development anywhere; and I doubt jwrd will go for cool features, seeing how they *need* to go for useful features or die, can't have better reason than that.
jfw: I hit a wall in walking MP through a test run because I wasn't prepared at least on the V side which is why I spent some time looking into that recently.
jurov: diana_coman: I was insinuating you do? I hope not!
diana_coman: jurov no, I didn't take it as an insinuation; my point was that the characteristic you mentioned is one of individuals, not something of foundation's, hence my trouble in figuring out just what is there.
diana_coman: not sure how to put this clearer, hm.
jurov: I know what you mean and it is VERY true, Foundation can't ever hope to pay for that kind of deep study and careful improvements. But it can provide services, infrastructure.
jurov: You're probably going to ask what services and infrastructure exactly, that I still have to work out myself.
diana_coman: jurov - there are some questions well before that really: 1. to whom does the foundation intend to provide services and infrastructure (since that goes a long way in defining those anyway and yes, it matters more than what exact etc) 2. how does the foundation intend to fund itself 3. what does the history of the foundation and its association mean/how is that handled
diana_coman: because it may intend to provide services and infrastructure but whether it intends to or not, it certainly and inescapably *will* provide the historical link with *all* there is to it, positive and negative.
jurov: 1. people will self-select, as was hitherto the case
jurov: 2. fundraising will be in order when it's clearer what to do with current resources
jurov: 3. what do you have in mind? what does "handling of history and its association" mean for eulora, for example?
diana_coman: jurov huh? how do you see the 2 similar? eulora is owned by s.mg which is a mpex listed entity with funds raised via IPO
diana_coman: how is that similar to a tmsr-outreach foundation endowed with funds meant for *outreach of tmsr* , I don't follow
jurov: And did tmsr name any successor entity? AFAIK no. So it's up to chaiprpersons of Foundation.
diana_coman: re 1. in that sense people always self-select, sure; even customers in a shop will self-select, not like you go and force them into the shop or something; there is however still some profile that you can tell you are aiming for, at the very least
diana_coman: jurov - how do you mean a successor entity? so the money was donated for tmsr outreach; tmsr closes down and the money was never used for its intended purpose; so then you mean it should have... what, found some other entity for which to outreach?
jurov: well, should it?
diana_coman: jurov it's well known, I don't go for any "should", lol; nothing ever "should"; there is however the uneasy squaring of this "oh, tmsr closed down so now we keep the money and figure out something to do with it"
jurov: http://thebitcoin.foundation/charter.html do you see anything about outreach of tmsr here? i don't
jurov: then, there is http://thebitcoin.foundation/declaration.txt which says taxes should be used for some kind of protection of #bitcoin-assets members, which also never happened
jurov: I hope it's clear to everyone it needs to be rethought, and I happened to be the person responsible.
diana_coman: jurov uhm, not sure I follow there the link you are making; to start with the easier bits to clarify - the taxation was never paid because never "bitcoin realised", sure; as trinque often and correctly noted, tmsr was essentially broke and never managed to develop commerce
diana_coman: or whatever else, for that matter.
jurov: How it did not develop commerce? I was basically living off doing commerce in TMSR for years already!
diana_coman: this easy bit aside though, the core uncovered seems to be related to a. the foundation as a non-tmsr entity b. what the donations were for
diana_coman: jurov well, you tuned off and refused to be an active part so what can I say there.
diana_coman: I hadn't realised that the role of the foundation as outreach for tmsr and the intended role of the donations were unclear/disputed so I haven't prepared with full links on the matter; I suppose this becomes needed though now, for the full record if for nothing else.
jurov: What can I say, under TMSR prolonged hiatus is an grave offense punishable by forfeiture of funds, good TMSR is no more.
diana_coman: huh? according to your own statement you purposefully "kept a low profile" so it's not just some hiatus or how do you mean?
diana_coman: and no, as far as I know Mike_C got his funds back after prolongued hiatus no problem (and even lost out because of BingoBoingo's handling of the matter, not because of the absence)
jurov: you're splitting hairs, hiatus is a hiatus
diana_coman: jurov listen, I gather that you personally are happy that tmsr is no more; that is fine; I also gather that you personally lost those funds; that however does not make it some tmsr-rule and I provided one counterexample.
jfw: rereading that declaration I don't see anything about the tax being used for protection, but rather that the signers pledge to support each other and the declaration. (Nothing about a republic either for that matter, though dunno, perhaps the mutual pledge + tax constitutes a republic well enough)
diana_coman: reading through that declaration it strikes me that it actually even further binds the foundation as *a part of tmsr* so even more so ending when tmsr ends, uhm.
jurov: Forfeiture is forfeiture, even if "only" 30btc fine.
diana_coman: jfw yes, there wasn't anything about "protection"; and indeed, I took the whole as = tmsr ; now if I understand it correctly, jurov sees somehow the foundation entirely apart from the rest in there
jurov: Yes it is apart. I consider paying fines where no damage was done, only for hiatus, to be an act of government.
diana_coman: jurov the fine was basically for choice of BingoBoingo, nothing to do with hiatus; but at any rate, I'd say this is in the end not the core issue for the foundation at all (unless you mean that therefore the foundation funds are to be kept - is this it?); the core is a. the role of the foundation b. the intended role of donations
jurov: Well, I have put out a statement and tried to explain it. I don't have more to say atm, if you aren't satisfied, there will be more statements with more information.
jurov: And I pay no heed to TMSR anymore, because it behaved to my clients worse than any government.
diana_coman: jurov there's no tmsr anymore indeed; you can certainly do as you choose and thank you for stating your mind on this matter.
diana_coman: to me so far it seems it's indeed a matter of "jurov lost those funds therefore the foundation's funds are to be kept too"; people will have to decide for themselves, as always.
jurov: OK. And If I may honestly ask, how comes the Foundation is a mess, and Eulora is (supposedly) not, when there's fewer active players than trb nodes despite much bigger resurces of S.MG?
diana_coman: jurov sure: look at what eulora has developed during the interval and compare with what the foundation has developed during the same interval; for all the *more people involved* and more public support, at that.
diana_coman: and note that I ran a node and it's even still public ; the foundation did 0 for eulora if you want to count that too.
jurov: Thank you!
diana_coman: for the log and readers that might be unaware - the "few active players" is because of a public decision that went along the lines of "beta clearly successful given the amount of playtime and *money* players poured in, so will focus on getting out the rsa-version before anything else"; and if someone thinks that players who have in game full bitcoins are somehow "not active" because not playing
diana_coman: right now, what can I say.
diana_coman: technically speaking I should have said *what s.mg developed* rather than eulora since the entity in question is really s.mg.
jurov: If I were you, I'd probably nitpick that S.MG was about running games, not about development.
jurov: Really, did you ask and answered yurself and your boss all these questions you wanted me to answer?
diana_coman: jurov - I didn't mean that as strictly "code", no.
diana_coman: jurov huh
diana_coman: ?
diana_coman: I don't follow
diana_coman: ask me if there's anything unclear, I don't mind
jurov: for example, I found intereting how you argued tmsr has not developed commerce..it has never crossed your mind eulora could have been it?
diana_coman: jurov yes, mp was /is commerce and s.mg is his; I did indeed take him out of it since it was all in the context of reference to trinque's observations; perhaps I cut there too short the corner and it became unclear
diana_coman: so let me restate that: from those active in tmsr, it was only MP who made money from *outside* tmsr.
diana_coman: sure, from what I gather, trinque has his firm and ben vulpes has his too.
diana_coman: from what you said, I understand you made money from tmsr being there, while keeping a low profile.
jurov: No that's not true.
jurov: I made most of it while actively running the MPEx broker, and it helped to get outside money quite a lot.
diana_coman: alright; I don't know that part.
diana_coman: thinking of what you meant re those questions - if you mean whether I know what sort of player eulora targets for instance - yes, I do.
jurov: People who don't mind their funds are liable to disappear on a whim?
diana_coman: jurov lolz, no.
diana_coman: and no funds disappeared.
jurov: You're just lucky.
diana_coman: jurov do I understand it correctly that you have now a bone to pick with eulora or with s.mg or with me or what?
jurov: Regardless of bone, you seem to think there's no eulora-related history that might affect the players?
jurov: more precisely, mp-related?
diana_coman: jurov you do realise that there are eulora players with negative ratings from mp and yes, they are not affected; does this answer your question?
diana_coman: iirc there is even a public statement somewhere re this, if anyone cares to dig it out.
jurov: Yes, it answers. As I said, you're lucky, so far.
diana_coman: jurov well, you can say that to anything really, sure; one is even alive to be still breathing, so far; until they die, sure.
diana_coman: even lucky to be alive*
jurov: Right, when you are denied access to funds and being told it's your fault in some vague terms, you exhale with joy that you are at least alive :)
diana_coman: jurov no, I didn't mean that at all.
diana_coman: jurov - I'll keep reading your further statements , as you said you intend to publish them; it's late here and I'll go offline now but I'll be back tomorrow as usual if there's anything else you want to ask.
diana_coman: as I said earlier and meant it, thank you for stating your mind on it all.
jurov: Similar, and I had not came here to grind my axe, sorry.
diana_coman: no problem.
feedbot: http://ztkfg.com/2020/06/guitar-practice-log-7/ << whaack -- Guitar Practice Log 7