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phf[asciilifeform]: meanwhile i got rid of gui altogether, until i figure out outstanding protocol questions
phf[asciilifeform]: gui is a lie
asciilifeform: phf: which protocol questions were you thinking about ?
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019061 << asciilifeform orig. wanted absolutely nuffin to do with guiism , until barfed from irc's append-only semantics and the resulting ugh in protocol
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-23 01:56:31 phf[awt]: gui is a lie
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-05 21:29:00 asciilifeform[jonsykkel|awt]: 1 of the reasons 1st thing asciilifeform did when rewriting spec, was to throw out the reorder mechanism -- it not only slows propagation simply to satisfy irc frontends, but creates unholy wtf semantics that will prolly never entirely behave as anyone would expec
asciilifeform: ( here, to be precise )
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-06-20 14:35:41 asciilifeform: ... the 'order buffer' otoh would be superfluous in a 'mutable' pestron.
awt[asciilifeform]: gm shinohai
asciilifeform: wb shinohai
shinohai[asciilifeform]: oh hai asciilifeform! I'm still seeing you as hearsay and not in peers list so imma ask to rekey if you have time in a few days
shinohai[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: gpg: encrypted with RSA key, ID 0xB4A0455373708B0E < failed
asciilifeform: !!key shinohai
asciilifeform: shinohai: try this one instead
asciilifeform appears to have at least 1 obsolete key for shinohai
asciilifeform: signpost: lol, and at same time internal ban (iirc already de-facto banned there for some yrs.)
signpost[asciilifeform]: sure for the poors
asciilifeform would be quite surprised if all of this had any kinda detectable, to naked eye, effect
signpost[asciilifeform]: just like in china, I'm sure a particular caste has no problems using it.
asciilifeform: anyone can use 'between consenting adults', rich or poor. but not 'retail' (which from asciilifeform's pov is already the situation in usa, with 'coin tax')
bitbot[asciilifeform]: (asciilifeform) 2022-01-19 asciilifeform: billymg: afaik there isn't even a deterministic algo for 'i need q*x coin to buy this item priced x, q >= 1.0, cuz tax'
dulapbot: (asciilifeform) 2022-01-11 asciilifeform: i.e. is deliberately inefficient, and there is quite deliberately no deterministic method to actually guarantee that you paid 100% of what's Officially req'd
signpost[asciilifeform]: just got the same replay of two messages that it looks like logs.bitdash.io saw
asciilifeform also saw
signpost[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019081 << have to disagree strongly that moving to settle international trade in BTC is a non-event
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-23 14:36:47 asciilifeform[4]: would be quite surprised if all of this had any kinda detectable, to naked eye, effect
signpost[asciilifeform]: but weeee shaaall seeee
lobbes[asciilifeform]: imo BTC is an ideal currency for sovereigns; the potential to side-step sanctions alone is large. You have to imagine heads-of-state have already been settling some international trade in BTC, though perhaps haven't specifically stated such publicly
asciilifeform: lobbes: not impossible, but asciilifeform suspects that not -- btc has 'bug' where 'wrong people' and 'wrong places' (from various crowned heads' pov) have most of it
asciilifeform: ( the other pertinent 'bug' is that settlement in btc is 'too easy' and therefore cuts out the excuse to 'pay' in iou's -- recall mp's piece re the gold mountain in ro )
asciilifeform: the most interesting 'bug' of course is that x btc represents e.g. y*x usd,rub,etc. and y is effectively a random number
asciilifeform: which can and does get trivially manipulated by reich
lobbes[asciilifeform]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-23#1019161 << I think I follow. Too easy since a reich either owns the key(s) to a btc addy or doesn't, versus being able to make a claim to [http://trilema.com/2014/how-many-years-you-got/#selection-83.34-83.68|unmined gold], or whatever gdp fudging / manipulation
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-12-23 16:18:58 asciilifeform: ( the other pertinent 'bug' is that settlement in btc is 'too easy' and therefore cuts out the excuse to 'pay' in iou's -- recall mp's piece re the gold mountain in ro )
lobbes[asciilifeform]: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-12-23#1019163 << yeah the y does seem tied to the movements of whichever mob is hitched to whichever mtgox of the month
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-12-23 16:20:54 asciilifeform: which can and does get trivially manipulated by reich
lobbes[asciilifeform]: man, I swear I know the [link][legend] notation but somehow do it wrong each time lol
shinohai[asciilifeform]: There that's better. When do we get killfiles ?
asciilifeform: wb lobbes
asciilifeform: lobbes: it's been [link][legend] since phf's orig. logger.
asciilifeform: shinohai: have some mercy, d00d was at sea for yrs
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019062 << just the stuff that i haven't solved in my code. multistation, backlog recovery, new packet insert. that sort of stuff
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-23 11:38:26 asciilifeform[4]: phf: which protocol questions were you thinking about ?
phf[asciilifeform]: guism ended up providing pointless distraction, time sink and also made me sad.
asciilifeform: looked decent tho, from the screenshits. what was the sad ?
phf[asciilifeform]: i mean after playing with this stuff i came to conclusion that computing has failed :>
asciilifeform: a, that -- not news..
phf[asciilifeform]: tk/tcl over subprocess to create a pretty text output, the whole spitoon aspect of it, the fact that we don't have smart gui libraries, the fact that the libraries that we do are multi-mb c++ monstrocities, etc.
asciilifeform: 'smart gui' that actually worx on various os is much closer to 'mars lander' than pestron in scope, sadly
phf[asciilifeform]: 􏿽i ported my accounting code to genera, just for the fun of it, and while the gui library is not ideal, it's damn convenient. i had similar experience when working with smalltalk/squeak in the past. everything is station operator oriented, and assumes that you're going to write lisp
phf[asciilifeform]: 􏿽 or augment other people's lisp to solve your problems, so the process of adding a little bit of gui is made as painless as possible.
asciilifeform: aha, cuz sane os
phf[asciilifeform]: not sure i even about multisystem…
phf[asciilifeform]: *i even care
phf[asciilifeform]: i'd like to first solve my own immediate problems. although by that measure i can probably just write to lispworks gui, and then not have anyone use my code ever :D
asciilifeform working on far moar modest 'canhaz portable pestron with xchat-like ui'
asciilifeform: and yes it's a pile of cpp. but at least loox like will not be a very tall pile.
phf[asciilifeform]: i also realized i want a vertical integration, but i don't want to g gabriel ladel it out of twigs and string
asciilifeform: phf: welcome to asciilifeform circa 2007...
phf[asciilifeform]: pest not as an `app`, but as a subsystem that i can integrate into other things. 'oh you want to send data from machine A to machine B. etc
asciilifeform: lispm-complete problem.
phf[asciilifeform]: it's a problem that surfaces every time i start building components.. `oh it'll just be a unix script. oh it's suddenly 1000 lines of python, so now i just want to pull the data out of it for this other script. aaand i've been fucked by unix again`
phf[asciilifeform]: that's why oldfags live in emacs
phf[asciilifeform]: but man emacs is such junk
phf[asciilifeform]: and so it goes
asciilifeform: exactly how it goes.
asciilifeform spent yrs not wanting to bake much of anyffin for precisely this reason
asciilifeform: esp. things that dun comfortably fit in emacs.
phf[asciilifeform]: a certain type of github slav who has 50 projects in QT to solve all kinds of personal problems
phf[asciilifeform]: can't fail by calling out to c++ if all your projects are in c++ to begin with
asciilifeform: in apropos lulz, shithub apparently no longer lets you search if not logged in
asciilifeform: (evidently they're tightening the screws re scrapers)
asciilifeform: 'opensores' but 'microshit in fact owns, dontcha fughet it'
phf: opensores was the trojan horse to begin with
phf[asciilifeform]: snsa ada pest when?
phf[asciilifeform]: how was it, hard to make man see truth if his livelihood depends on not seeing it
asciilifeform: there's a ~bottomless pit of laddel waiting for folx who 'want Right Thing' sadly
asciilifeform fighting with patently-idiotic shit like this
signpost[asciilifeform] pours more rum into his nog.
asciilifeform: unsurprising, cuz the lib forcibly 'lowest common denominator', combining idiocies from all common os guiisms
phf: i don't think laddel is even malicious (or for the matter the two guys that are peddling tmsr stuff, forgot their names), more like midwit attempt at bring oneself closer to divinity. magic charm just like the alien astronauts had!
phf[asciilifeform]: packets stuck in limbo again…
phf: -20c here, almost makes up for not going to the motherland this year
asciilifeform: 'The men were not shown the thermometer, but that wasn’t necessary since they had to work in any weather. Besides, longtime residents of Kolyma could determine the weather precisely even without a thermometer: if there was frosty fog, that meant the temperature outside was forty degrees below zero; if you exhaled easily
asciilifeform: was difficult to breathe, it was sixty degrees below; after sixty degrees below zero, spit froze in mid-air. Spit had been freezing in mid-air for two weeks.'(tm)(r)(shalamov)
asciilifeform: ( ...if you exhaled easily but in a rasping fashion, it was fifty degrees below zero; if there was a rasping and it was difficult to breathe, it was sixty degrees below; after sixty degrees below zero, spit froze in mid-air. Spit had been freezing in mid-air for two weeks.' )
phf[asciilifeform]: i've been walking around in my underwear all day, , directing traffic, because even appalachians are phased. plenty of opportunity for `you merely adopted the cold, i was born in it, molded by it` etc
signpost[asciilifeform]: how can you say this and not post video, I ask.
shinohai[asciilifeform]: tyvm asciilifeform rekey great success!
phf[asciilifeform]: signpost,i have no idea, nobody thought about it until you asked. girl is used oto it at this point
signpost[asciilifeform]: you're just running around town in your skivvies in the cold (snow?) up there?
signpost[asciilifeform]: meanwhile I'm recalibrating my ick tolerance. got my bellybutton puked in the other day.
phf[asciilifeform]: it's a joke that goes well with the locals yes :) i cleaned the drive way in speedos and wool hat and sun glasses, went to hang out at coffee shop in shorts t-shirt and flipflops. i don't know about running around in speedos though, might be a bit too much for the god fearing crowd
phf[asciilifeform]: it's about 3 feet of snow here
phf[asciilifeform]: i'm thinking i'm going to do a plunge in the lake near the horses tomorrow
signpost[asciilifeform]: many years ago when I spent some time living on a ranch in western PA, it was entertaining to race cousins from the house to frozen lake and back in our swimsuits or underwear.
signpost[asciilifeform]: ofc slowest one got locked out until a parent intervened
phf[asciilifeform]: that culture is alive and well
phf[asciilifeform]: despite the fact that the democrats are trying to destroy it!
signpost[asciilifeform]: I tell you hwut.
signpost[asciilifeform]: in unrelated news, got my little fountain code thinger to piss a 50mb flac file over UDP to itself earlier.
signpost[asciilifeform]: seeing if I can package up the python version into a little command line thinger that transfers a file arg to ip:port
signpost[asciilifeform]: better to have a toy version at which to point and grunt for a while before trying to shoehorn into pest.
asciilifeform: signpost: neato!
phf[asciilifeform]: random protocol question, in broadcast for each counterparty station i should be making a `new` packet, essentially so that nonce gets refreshed?
asciilifeform: phf: errytime you encrypt, generate nonce
asciilifeform: ( for that matter, it isn't as if you can simply forward whole packet, given that its original was keyed to you )
shinohai[asciilifeform]: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $16820.2
asciilifeform: shinohai: btw still seeing you as hearsay
asciilifeform: shinohai: ( and last packet in AT -- 31 july, lol )
shinohai[busybot]: really? I'm seeing you fine now
signpost[asciilifeform]: shinohai coming in directly over here.
asciilifeform: shinohai: possibly nat idiocy
shinohai[busybot]: !!v 2AAB7D5F24E8FD2B02EFDB3C879BCE1FA8EF4B26DB4A63A34EB21C7ECCB403E2
shinohai[busybot]: tyvm signpost for the deedbot updates, above long overdue ^
phf[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform, i presumably have a working key with you, and i'm also not getting a direct connection
signpost[asciilifeform]: shinohai: yep happy to
asciilifeform recently baked a new pfsense box, wonders if nat nao 'symmetric' by default
signpost[asciilifeform]: also unfucked the css on wot.deedbot.org in re: graph display
signpost[asciilifeform]: need to change the <h4> on the homepage to read "of This One Guy in Texas"
shinohai[busybot]: I feel like my client should play the "Dallas" theme song whenever a msg from signpost arrives.
phf[asciilifeform]: there used to be an old curmudgeon, i think his blog was called `fred on everything`, fred himself immigrated to mexico, married a latina and was writing proto-based articles. there's a foto of him on the blog with a cigar and a handgun. being a texas guy you need one of those photos also
asciilifeform: phf: i have his b00k, 'brass pole in bangkok'
phf[asciilifeform]: now we know how old shinohai is, and he's old
phf[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform, i don't even remember what his shtick was. seemed like there used to be a handful of these guys, another was a baltimore boxer living the ghetto. they published old school blogs, and also, eventually, books. dead breed
shinohai[busybot]: i thought i was doxxed as a boomer long ago.
signpost[asciilifeform]: guy can be forgiven it wasn't an AR, as I imagine they were still "banned" in that time.
phf[asciilifeform]: shinohai, i grew up watching dallas, because it was second huge tv show to come to post-soviet russia. the first one was `simplemente maria`
signpost[asciilifeform] admits to never having seen it
signpost[asciilifeform]: we did do some Walker Texas Ranger growing up tho.
signpost[asciilifeform]: shinohai: waitaminute, at least tell me you're a mexican boomer or something
phf[asciilifeform]: in my mind david carradine's kung fu is the quintessential texas show. i don't know why. that and of course king of the hill, the bust syndicated tv cartoon
signpost[asciilifeform]: actual documentary of Midland
phf[asciilifeform]: mike judge is a king of character study. groening, stone&parker are hacks iin comparison
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019199 << lafond was the bmor d00d. found via BingoBoingo. bought coupla of his b00kz also, but these turned out to be msword-mutilated pasta from his www. disappoint.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-23 21:40:01 phf[awt]: asciilifeform, i don't even remember what his shtick was. seemed like there used to be a handful of these guys, another was a baltimore boxer living the ghetto. they published old school blogs, and also, eventually, books. dead breed
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-23#1019201 << over9000 folx on the net seem to fughet allabout 'this is my seekrit $weapon, unregistered with reich' when succumbing to photonarcissism and 'here's me an' my MG' on arsebook etc
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-23 21:40:04 signpost: guy can be forgiven it wasn't an AR, as I imagine they were still "banned" in that time.
asciilifeform: ( same folx also e.g. 'here's me an' my pile of au bars' etc. lol )
asciilifeform: naodays 'any idjit can paperb00k' but sadly not 'erryidjit knows tex' so result is massive pile of piss-poorly formatted maculature (and often enuff by quasiliterates), and sits in catalogues (e.g. lulazon's) right next to 'actual' b00kz
asciilifeform: eye-bleeding msword maculae
phf[asciilifeform]: i've read my fair share of these writers, in blog form, e.g. your favorite orlol, but never was compelled to read them in book form. i figured it's unedited book spew self published using msword. why would one…
asciilifeform confirms -- unedited pasta
asciilifeform: (orlol fwiw has been imho 100% snoar for many yrs)
asciilifeform: folx who do not themselves luvv deadtree, imho oughta refrain. ( asciilifeform for instance sweated over formatting of erry pg of new spec, and still aint done, partly for this reason )
asciilifeform: who the fuck wants to read straight pasta. people own printers, can print pasta themselves if they want.
phf[asciilifeform]: maybe i can make some MONEY with this BLOGGING business!
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