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vex: general practionon uoughta avoid butt sex
vex: I've had two phizers and a moderna chaser
vex: van morrison isn't synoymous with niel young
vex: can't fuck with van
vex: halfwits rejoice
vex: i left a pet on the roadf somewhere preferented niel
vex: badman
jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076775 << if net1 sees guy1 as "speaker" and guy2 as "speaker-2", and net2 sees guy1 as "speaker-2" and guy2 as "speaker" - how to address these ppl in messages? "hey speaker-2 wats up" << will appear to diff subnets that u are addressing diff guys
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-26 19:01:12 asciilifeform: for completeness: if yer ~unable~ to emit a valid 'unlock' for yer handle's prev.msg, yer either a) impostor, and fuckyou b) somebody whose pestnet just merged with anuther where there's a second 'you'. in which case is right & proper that yer orig. net sees you as $speaker and the new folx as $speaker-2 c) yer a poor bastard who blew away his hdd.
jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076794 << on impl. side u could hav S-buffer where keep 100 next S values so if hdd crash and last backup was 70 S's ago, doesnt matter
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-26 19:25:12 asciilifeform: if you blow away yer station's hdd, you naturally will need to pgpgram yer peers & rekey. will lose yer 'S's, but 1) this won't affect yer direct peerings, and you'll need to poke'em anyway 2) if you give a strong fuck re what l2+ sees yer handle as, you make a new one.
PeterL: asciilifeform: should there be a "rename" command to change a peer's name?
PeterL: !e view-height
trbexplorer: block_height: 720601
trbexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 3
PeterL: !s version
scoopbot: I am 'Scoopbot' version 720601.
PeterL: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076797 << it's grabbing the name of the blog from the RSS feed, not the author
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-26 20:19:51 whaack: PeterL: Small nit, maybe scoopbot should say "New article by _" instead of "New post on _"
shinohai: In hardware bitcoin wallet rekt: https://archive.is/9iBY3
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076863 << afaik listed all the combos in thrd. lemme know if missed any.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-26 22:51:49 thimbronion: asciilifeform: ok I think I get the basic concept. under the previous design, intermediaries could block and impersonate. However, now with S, only the original user of a handle can prove they sent the previous message. Perhaps a listing of all the scenarios would help clarify things in the spec.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-26 18:57:58 asciilifeform: if yer able to emit a valid 'unlock' for $message, this demonstrates either a) yer the 1 who sent $message , or b) yer dr.evil, gambling on being a permanent bottleneck b/w 2 sub-pestnets, and forging a e.g. 'asciilifeform: you all eat bugs, fuckoff'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076878 << this is already a headache w/ the [] relayers notation, and will prolly require patching clients. the separate headache is the pov variants. prolly oughta identify all forked l2+ people as e.g. bozo-DEADBEEF w/ the turd identifying (remains to be seen how) the 1st msg of that fork
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-27 02:40:39 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076775 << if net1 sees guy1 as "speaker" and guy2 as "speaker-2", and net2 sees guy1 as "speaker-2" and guy2 as "speaker" - how to address these ppl in messages? "hey speaker-2 wats up" << will appear to diff subnets that u are addressing diff guys
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076880 << could, tho this has the obv. opsec implications
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-27 02:40:52 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076794 << on impl. side u could hav S-buffer where keep 100 next S values so if hdd crash and last backup was 70 S's ago, doesnt matter
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-27 08:24:23 PeterL: asciilifeform: should there be a "rename" command to change a peer's name?
PeterL: does that work if you want to peer with two people who both have the same handle though?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-27 09:05:25 shinohai: In hardware bitcoin wallet rekt: https://archive.is/9iBY3
asciilifeform: PeterL: prohibited by spec
PeterL: I'm thinking of the situation where two nets come together, both have a guy named "bob", can one pick a different name without having to re-peer with everybody?
punkman: "CVE-2021-4034 has been named PwnKit and its origin has been tracked to the initial commit of pkexec, more than 12 years ago, meaning that all Polkit versions are affected."
asciilifeform: punkman: runmoar poetteringware!
punkman: decade-old bug, nice
punkman: I mean "bug"
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-29 15:03:51 asciilifeform: billymg: asciilifeform's /etc/portage/package.mask/systemd , for reference.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-08-29 15:04:35 asciilifeform: sys-auth/polkit
asciilifeform: PeterL: bob's l1 peers will see 'bob'; his l2+ will see two suffixed bobs as soon as they first collide and henceforth
asciilifeform: his l1 will address him as 'bob', which may be annoying to l2+ but which bob is addressed will usually be clear from log context from either pov.
PeterL: but say I want to peer with both bobs, how is that handled?
asciilifeform: ultimately if pestnets merge, someone will have to be encouraged to renick.
asciilifeform: otherwise cacophony.
PeterL: but what I am looking for is a way to renick without having to rebuild your whole peer network
asciilifeform: 'hey peerz, starting tuesday i'ma call meself 'bobert', plox to AKA bob bobert' pgpsigned, bob
asciilifeform: i.e. doesn't req. rekeying w/ peers
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-27 13:40:08 PeterL: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076797 << it's grabbing the name of the blog from the RSS feed, not the author
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-26 20:19:51 whaack: PeterL: Small nit, maybe scoopbot should say "New article by _" instead of "New post on _"
whaack: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076798 << have you found that this is necessary in the field? it does not rng, haven't had any problems yet
bitbot: Logged on 2022-01-27 01:35:38 asciilifeform: whaack: btw your arithmetic-puzzler doesn't seem to rng
asciilifeform: whaack: ithink 1 of asciilifeform comments is stuck in yer spam queue
whaack: asciilifeform: it was, ty.
whaack: not sure how you managed to lose auto-approve though, probably cuz of links
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-27 09:56:10 whaack: http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076798 << have you found that this is necessary in the field? it does not rng, haven't had any problems yet
PeterL: whaack: does ^ this wording for scoopbot look better?
shinohai: tyvm PeterL
PeterL: I was thinking of making it "New article posted on ___:", but I thought this was a little cleaner?
shinohai: yeah the latter is superfluous methinks
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076891 << the 1 aspect did not discuss, but worth mentioning, is that 'evil' l1 peers can of course mutate yer messages. but this imho is obv. and such a betrayal will not stay seekrit for long.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-27 09:31:57 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076863 << afaik listed all the combos in thrd. lemme know if missed any.
whaack: PeterL: LGTM
whaack: anyone know of a heathen block explorer that contains an updated list of orphan blocks it sees?
whaack: !e view-height
trbexplorer: block_height: 720626
trbexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 2
shinohai: looks old though
asciilifeform: thimbronion, jonsykkel : asciilifeform had a thought : possibly the inclusion of 'speaker' field to start with was a mistake. instead, internally station oughta distinguish l2+ msgs by ~chain~, internally, and 'speaker' instead would be a 'call me x' ~broadcast message type~.
asciilifeform: would solve e.g. this, supposing one were willing to have the machine substitute a chain id munge in place of the speaker yer addressing, and parse it back out on the receiving end
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-27 02:40:39 jonsykkel: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-26#1076775 << if net1 sees guy1 as "speaker" and guy2 as "speaker-2", and net2 sees guy1 as "speaker-2" and guy2 as "speaker" - how to address these ppl in messages? "hey speaker-2 wats up" << will appear to diff subnets that u are addressing diff guys
asciilifeform: e.g. instead of the 32 bytes of 'speaker', you have the selfchain of the msg yer addressing (or a zero, if n/a)
asciilifeform: possibly not worth the bother, come to think of it. but a possible variant.
asciilifeform: might yield simpler phork-to/from-suffixed-speaker designation logic, tho.
asciilifeform: e.g. 1 advantage would be not having to rewalk log to mark bogosity (or its opposite)
asciilifeform: i.e. all chains recorded as they are, but what to do w/ a 'call me x' would depend on the station's pov re the offered handle. (if corresponds to l1 peer -- accept uncritically; if l2+ -- '1st come, 1st serve')
asciilifeform: transmitting 'speaker' in erry msg is a rather massive waste imho, given that they're already selfchained and you can walk back
asciilifeform: and makes for all kindsa otherwise unnecessary moving parts in the protocol
asciilifeform had orthogonal but also pertinent thought: 'no orphan rebroadcast', i.e. if you gimme a msg, i haven't the prev. for it, i 'getdata', and you dun answr within interval -- yours goes to devnull
asciilifeform: and ~recursively~ so.
asciilifeform: ^ concerns strictly broadcasts, that is
asciilifeform: imposing the 'i am...' msg might have anuther win -- the receiver could ~reply~ to it with e.g. 'yes you can be bob on my pestnet' or alternatively 'i've a bob already'.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. 'i've a chain that is already bobbed' )
asciilifeform: btw if the 32bytes formerly 'speaker' instead made to point to one's 'birth' (i.e. 1st 'i am' broadcast), makes rather simple to determine who was 1st claimant of $handle on given pestnet.
asciilifeform: (point to i.e. selfchainwise)
asciilifeform: ... also makes for simple handle switchouts ('i was bob (or possibly bob-N to you) $chain to prev.iam, nao am bobart'
asciilifeform: then you can switch handles while maintaining chain continuity (if you want to) from l2+'s pov.
whaack: shinohai: i linked that website before, the server ran out of storage and is no longer updating
whaack: shinohai: but it looks like orphans are spaced out to about 1 per month
whaack: s/orphan/childless for this whole thread
whaack: childless isn't even the right term, unless the fork is only 1 chain long
whaack: maybe s/orphan/extinct
whaack: unless the fork is only 1 block* long
shinohai: extinct *does* have a nice ring to it
whaack: jfw used the term loser block, works as well
signpost: repudiable could be used for blocks which have no children and have a competitor with no children, and repudiated when they are left behind.
signpost: just throwing that out there, loser's pretty descriptive too for latter.
whaack: in any case, all better than orphan
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-21 13:13:24 asciilifeform: whaack: more immediately, cuz we haven't any notion what the longest possible reorg is
asciilifeform: fwiw shitoshi also had nfi what longest practical reorg could be. hence wai stored ~all~ recv'd blox 4evah
asciilifeform: (whether ~could~ reorg over9000 blox, in the actual proggy as it stands, no one knows. but they sit there, fossilized, in the db.)
whaack: asciilifeform: given our emperical evidence so far i think it's fair to call loser/repudiated blocks extinct blocks, and should we learn that in practice losers can be revived, then that will be a resurrection
asciilifeform: whaack: aha. but important to remember that it's an empirical result.
asciilifeform: ( the well-known tradition is 'declared dead after 6' but there's no fundamental physical basis for it )
asciilifeform: and iirc whaack turned up >6 long reorgs in early history.
whaack: asciilifeform: i mentioned that i remember a >6 long reorg but not something i verified for myself in any wya
whaack: way
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