feedbot: http://bingology.net/2019/pizarro-liquidation-auction-preview-photos/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Pizarro Liquidation Auction Preview - Photos
auctionbot: S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (103h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 20mn total bids ---
auctionbot: S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (98h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 20mn total bids ---
auctionbot: S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (93h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 20mn total bids ---
feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/08/an-appeal-for-enemies/ << Ossa Sepia -- An Appeal for Enemies
asciilifeform: dorion: reminder -- your appointment is today at 1530 nyc time.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-11-05 18:29:01 asciilifeform: dorion: ok, friday 1530-1600 nyc time.
BingoBoingo: Auctions for the former Pizarro hardware have gone live, auction IDs 1064 to 1074 for folks wishing to query auctionbot with !Xview
dorion: asciilifeform ayup, wasn't going to forget, thanks.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma put the 2 fg auction shortly.
BingoBoingo: ty
BingoBoingo: I was inclined to start the auctions shortly after the diana_coman logger declared the start of today, but instead decided to wait for an hour where most of the relevant world would be awake to bid during the final hours.
asciilifeform: !Xsell 10mn 168 Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees.
auctionbot: Sell order # 1075 created by asciilifeform: Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. Opening: 10mn ecu Ending: 2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 UTC (167 hours)
asciilifeform: !Xsell 10mn 168 Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees.
auctionbot: Sell order # 1076 created by asciilifeform: Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. Opening: 10mn ecu Ending: 2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 UTC (167 hours)
auctionbot: S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (88h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1064 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (166h37) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1065 O=5mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (166h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1066 O=5mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (166h38) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (166h38) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (166h38) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (166h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable.
auctionbot: S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (166h39) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (166h39) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1072 O=1 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (166h39) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1073 O=40mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (166h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (166h40) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1075 O=10mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (167h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees.
auctionbot: S#1076 O=10mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (167h22) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees.
auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 20mn total bids ---
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/2019/feed-bot-spec-proposal << The Tar Pit -- Feed bot spec proposal
auctionbot: Sell order # 1075: Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. Heard: 10mn from jurov. Ending: 2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 UTC (164 hours 28 mins)
auctionbot: Sell order # 1076: Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. Heard: 10mn from jurov. Ending: 2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 UTC (164 hours 28 mins)
asciilifeform: dorion: you may begin whenever you wish. ( yer time slot is still to 1600 . )
dorion: asciilifeform thanks, I'll start by saying I appreciate how much I've learned from reading you over the years, not just about computing, but also history. this appreciation made reading the snsa failure and reaction fairly.. frustrating.
asciilifeform: why ty dorion . i am happy to hear that you learned .
asciilifeform would ask questions back, but to help dorion get max juice from his q&a, will instead only answr; we can always speak later at length if he wishes
dorion: My question starts with why do you think it happened and what is your interpretation of the circle metaphor. what does the man mean and what from snsa history does he have to lean on?
asciilifeform: dorion: i'ma have to answer these 2 q separately
dorion: ok, do as you pleasem, but to my eye, they go hand in hand.
asciilifeform: dorion: am i correct in assuming that you read the orig snsa charter ?
dorion: yes.
asciilifeform: dorion: so, to answer the 1st q, it closed because mp, chairman, has the right to close it whenever he wishes, and recently closed it. he detailed his logic on his www .
dorion: ok, let me bo more direct; let's start with the straw that broke snsa back; how is that an example of circularity in your actions?
ossabot: (trilema) 2019-10-28 ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-27 19:16:12 asciilifeform: diana_coman: as i specifically wish to operate with no external capital, this is the only possible scheme.
asciilifeform: dorion: re the 'circles', it is mp's take on the process where he repeatedly tried to forcibly reformat asciilifeform's brain to conform to his own liking; sometimes appears to make headway; but then asciilifeform's immune system kicks in and mp goes berserk, as asciilifeform aint 1 of mp's tame animals and aint reformatable via argumentum ad baculum.
asciilifeform: dorion: imho you are correct that it was 'straw that broke camel', by all rights mp and asciilifeform oughta have parted ways in '16, when became clear that FG was not going to be a bestseller.
asciilifeform: dorion: i'ma however support the 'forcibly reformat' claim. observe the charter section 3.2c :
asciilifeform: '(c) The agreement between the parties is that Stanislav Datskovskiy will handle the operational, research and technical aspects of the venture, and jointly with Mircea Popescu the strategic management of the venture through a consensus process ; whereas Mircea Popescu will handle marketing, accounting and MPEx-compliant reporting for the venture, and jointly with Stanislav Datskovskiy the strategic management of the venture th
asciilifeform: rough a consensus process.'
dorion: fine. but was it reasonable for you taking the above position, while courting s.mg business and MP management advice in the process of setting up alfisp ? and how does that mirror the setting up of piz ?
asciilifeform: the 'consensus process' at all times consisted largely of 'do what mp whims or else.' ;
asciilifeform: while the attempt to saddle asciilifeform w/ a debt-laden high-risk isp project, after failure of piz ( observe, in no way isp work is mentioned in orig charter, which concerned 'a series of strong, fully integrated cryptography products, ensuring customers absolute immunity from third party attempts to access their data or communications' ) , and in particular , the marketing work he demanded, is arguably likewise in direct co
asciilifeform: ntravention of the charter.
asciilifeform: however asciilifeform had already tired of trying to talk sense into mp, he is imho beyond the reach of argument , 'what i say goes, peon' is at this pt his entire read-eval-print-loop.
asciilifeform: dorion: 'advice' differs from 'management' in that one is not obligated to take the advice.
dorion: asciilifeform: but finance is rooted in trust ; "mircea_popescu: Morgan: Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it \u2026 a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom."
asciilifeform: dorion: re the charter, asciilifeform saw 'rules bickering' as 100% futile, as snsa was listed on mp's personally owned exchange, and to which in fact i have never had access nor any realistic expectation of seeing coin. i agreed to work with him for political reasons.
asciilifeform: this arguably was a mistake.
asciilifeform: ( to be pedantic, at one time i had a demo acct w/ mp's exchange. but it was deactivated, as agreed, before snsa opened. )
dorion: I accept that isp is not in snsa charter, but how did your actions in setting up isps undermine the financial relationship?
asciilifeform: ( dorion: for reference , this 2013 article resulted from my init contact w/ mp et al, and is a review of his exchange . )
dorion: asciilifeform I know the history.
asciilifeform: ok
asciilifeform: dorion: are you familiar w/ history of piz ?
asciilifeform: and what asciilifeform's participation consisted of ?
asciilifeform: and, for that matter, mp's participation ?
dorion: yes. I know you didn't want mp bonds, since dropped phf hardware courier, republic w/o mp article. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-02-17#1784380
snsabot: (trilema) 2018-02-17 mircea_popescu: aaanyway. this whole "potential subscribers" is easily enough said, but you've apparently created quite a credit crunch for the item. because "well, let's send bbisp a box" "what if they go under ?" "i guess we underwrite some bonds" "but they DONT WANT your bonds!" "um..."
asciilifeform: dorion: and at the same time we ended up with one.
dorion: then piz took snsa debt anyways.
asciilifeform: piz was orig mp's 'b.isp'. which was doomed as-designed, because of poor choice of geography ( 2000+ $ / mo rack+net pipe; ruinously fascist customs regime ) . asciilifeform and mod6 purchased its corpse and attempted salvage, as 'pizarro'.
dorion: then in alfisp venture, you solicit smg again, but don't want external capital, even though piz burned your coin. full circle or am I dreaming ?
snsabot: (trilema) 2018-03-18 mircea_popescu: i dunno, maybe it's not apparent, let's reiterate. minigame is a multi-million dollar corp, trusted by people with multi-million dollars worth of virtual equipment. you understand me ? when it says 8k btc equity that means more money than dimon got.
asciilifeform: dorion: solicit ~custom~, not ~investment~.
asciilifeform: is the difference not apparent ?
asciilifeform: if i operate a parking garage, and i permit obama to park his abrams tank, it does not constitute a '20mil $ investment in asciilifeform's garage' .
dorion: both have risk and receive a reward, neh ? and is not financing exchanged all through the supply chain ?
asciilifeform: dorion: ftr i agreed to the snsa bond because it was in the form of hardware (which in fact i had assembled with own hands and purchased, then reimbursed) , therefore was confident that it can be repaid no matter what happens to piz ( which in fact it will be, BingoBoingo indicated that it will be done in the coming days. )
asciilifeform: i would not, for instance, had agreed , to accept e.g. 100btc from someone. because a btc loan to a physical operation is virtually impossible to repay (on acct of the potentially unknown change in exch rate.)
asciilifeform: dorion: you may have to elaborate re your last statement, it is unclear to me what is being asked
asciilifeform: ( you have 10m )
dorion: suppliers and customers extend credit as a matter of course. part with good today, pay me in 30d. was in response to difference between relationship between investor and customer to a business. I don't agree they're equal, but underlining that trust is involved.
asciilifeform: dorion: trust is involved. and all biz relationships must end when trust is gone. mp already described his ' asciilifeform is lamer '. i described the other side, which reduces to ' working w/ mp was stimulating, but the man is interested in strictly master/slave relations, and i have no interest to be slave' .
asciilifeform: you have 5m dorion . any other q ?
dorion: yea, about time mgmt/planning circularity, and how you intened to improve moving forward, since was a requirement s.mg to go with piz.
snsabot: (trilema) 2018-02-24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/dour_mug_shot.jpg
asciilifeform: dorion: well piz is dissolved. and this q seems to presuppose that i agree w/ mp's batshit rants, which i do not.
dorion: re: master slave, looks like that's your particular interpretation: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-02-24#1785891 http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-02-24#1785894
snsabot: (trilema) 2018-02-24 mircea_popescu: and yes, re rythm : time discipline is not a torture device, it's a tool. it's supposed to help you achieve your goals not make life inconvenient.
snsabot: (trilema) 2018-02-24 mircea_popescu: isn't just saying things, to fit in with the crowd or the fashions of his generation or whatever. literally, "help you achieve your goals".
asciilifeform: dorion: if you're able to reword it w/out this presumption, i'll attempt to answer.
asciilifeform: dorion: imho mp is a madman. his 2019 material is maybe ~slightly~ more sense-making than e.g. 'mein kampf'.
asciilifeform: does this answer ?
dorion: if public planning/reporting is batshit, why'd you return to it this summer ? http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-07#1922000 http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-16#1922888
snsabot: (trilema) 2019-07-07 asciilifeform: goes back to work on 'war plan' piece
snsabot: (trilema) 2019-07-16 asciilifeform: in re ffa : ch20 and most of 21 written. but all of it paused atm , making detailed map/plan.
asciilifeform: dorion: i plan any major work, it is impossible otherwise. but the pedantic publication was for mp specifically, he demanded it as a condition of collaboration (from which i in fact was not gaining much. and he in turn today would say that he gained nothing.)
dorion: I say these things because I'd enjoy alf succeed in whatever he does, but reads like your response from snsa fallout is alf was victim all along, alf had no responsibility in how things ended.
asciilifeform: ever had a 'difficult customer' in your consultancy, dorion ? for which you jumped through rings of fire ? and then thought 'was this worth' ?
asciilifeform: dorion: i was not 'victim', but idiot. who ran head into wall w/out properly thinking 'is this wall?'
asciilifeform: it was -- wall.
asciilifeform: ftr asciilifeform does ~not~ view mp as 'aggressor' .
asciilifeform: 100% voluntary collaboration . which arguably went on long past where either end gained from it.
dorion: so the whole affair was your only masochism ?
dorion: I shouldn't mindread, sorry.
asciilifeform: dorion: do you view my pre-mp work as masochism likewise ?
asciilifeform: perhaps doing anything at all other than sitting in armchair w/ cocaine , is 'masochism' by this token.
asciilifeform: i worked for mp for political reasons -- agreed w/ his aims.
asciilifeform: dorion: we're over-time . do you have a closing q ? i'd not normally offer, given that yer clearly orthodox in mp's church. but will do so anyway .
dorion: to my knowledge loper work was by yourself, snsa work was with mp, who raised the financing and had the mgmt experience to help you. so different situations.
asciilifeform: dorion: this is correct.
dorion: not for now, but for your own sanity I'd hope you seriously reflect on what you could've done better over the time, apart from 'not get involved' , 'left earlier'.
asciilifeform: dorion: so after all you came to preach.
asciilifeform: get out and stay out.
asciilifeform: this was tiresome. and pretty much what i expected it'd be.
asciilifeform: 'come in peace' my arse.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-11-05 18:48:09 dorion: asciilifeform word. and to make it explicit, I do come in peace.
asciilifeform dislikes liars.
shinohai: Well it was entertaining at first, I admit I didn't expect the culty message at the end.
asciilifeform: shinohai: i -- expected. iirc diana_coman admitted to having sent him (possib with prepped talking points) .
asciilifeform: i dunno why not do this w/ own hands, whatever.
shinohai: Perhaps it is the http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-08#1001723 mentality?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-11-08 20:54:44 asciilifeform: dorion: trust is involved. and all biz relationships must end when trust is gone. mp already described his ' asciilifeform is lamer '. i described the other side, which reduces to ' working w/ mp was stimulating, but the man is interested in strictly master/slave relations, and i have no interest to be slave' .
asciilifeform: shinohai: the man did say that he had read the logs. knows asciilifeform's pov, knows mp's pov. why did he come w/ the pre-prepped 'accept christ into yer heart' under the guise of 'questions' ?
asciilifeform: this is what grates.
asciilifeform: the time to preach to asciilifeform , if ever indeed there was 1, was ~before~ he was excommunicated by pope and declared damned to eternal hellfire. not ~after~, lol.
shinohai: Well if this chan is eternal hellfire, Imma enjoy the barbecue.
asciilifeform: shinohai: it's quite reminiscent of 1990s 'talk.origins', w/ creationists, that sorta convo.
shinohai: Feels very much like "motivated reasoning" to shinohai ....
asciilifeform: shinohai: i've been reading in recent months, protocols from stalin's processes against 'wreckers'. they're quite like this, and vyshynsky was -- genius. entirely on par w/ mp. erry q contained subtle presumptions of 'buying in' to prosecution's pov, the accused was nailed no matter what said. ( the folx who got the '3rd degree' treatment -- were the 1s who refused to go on stage entirely )
asciilifeform: the part where fella 'stick to 30m' was direct crib from that book. principal instrument of 'make accused damn himself' was the clock, it is impossible to address ~all~ of the bullshit being subtly snuck in, when clock ticks.
shinohai: aha
shinohai: I suppose, like Stalin, accused will be used for purposes of future propaganda.
asciilifeform: what i dun get , is wtf the preacher folx are tryin' to accomplish. asciilifeform ~already~ Officially proclaimed untermensch, 'will ride in bmw as the leather seat'(tm), etc. whythefuq would orthodox mpistian care what he thinks.
asciilifeform: germans didn't try an' convince the folx in the gas queue re 'this is what you need for own sanity' etc.
BingoBoingo unsure what was going on there with the interview. Also believes in the value of mass delousing when containing Europes undersirable poor together lest Typhus and Friends have the run of the place
auctionbot: S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (83h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1064 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (161h37) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (161h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (161h38) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (161h38) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (161h38) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (161h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable.
auctionbot: S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (161h39) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (161h39) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1072 O=1 LB=2mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (161h39) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (161h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (161h40) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense.
auctionbot: S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (162h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees.
auctionbot: S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (162h22) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees.
auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 92mn total bids ---
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo you may find it interesting to learn that asciilifeform got actual whole night of proper sleep maybe for 1st time in 6mo. i.e indeed 'had problem', just not what was described as 'the problem' by the holy see.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Congrats. I suspect the mp-alf relationship wasn't healthy for either of you.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and i admit that i'm looking forward to seeing folx grow hands in the process of trying to remake / do w/out , e.g. FG. i expect that diana_coman for instance will soon find out why i needed a microscope, and why it would have been pretty great to have the (such hated by mp) xray instrument when crates of subtly defective pcb's come in from factory.
asciilifeform: it is quite easy to think that 'this work is worth 0' when someone does it for you for phree. go an' hire someone who can tell defective 0.3mm^2 solder joint by crystal structure w/ eyes, it'll run 5-6figs$ easily.
asciilifeform: ( or not go. it is not written in the koran that all can have working tech just by screaming hard enuff )
asciilifeform: folx can grow the necessary experts from eggs if they want. it worx, just takes 3, 4 decades, is all.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-08#1001760 - this is bullshit; I did not *send* him; I only restricted/conditioned his coming on *fixed time*; read here, it's all public for that matter: http://younghands.club/2019/11/04/rmd-week-1-plan-nov-4th-10th-2019/?b=S.NSA&e=#select
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-08 17:14:12 asciilifeform: shinohai: i -- expected. iirc diana_coman admitted to having sent him (possib with prepped talking points) .
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma believe .
diana_coman: see the comment for my reply to his request there.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i read the yh chronicles. but, will admit, ~1/week.
diana_coman: if you have any trouble there, take it on me not on him.
diana_coman: as he said to start with http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-08#1001674
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-08 16:28:17 dorion: asciilifeform thanks, I'll start by saying I appreciate how much I've learned from reading you over the years, not just about computing, but also history. this appreciation made reading the snsa failure and reaction fairly.. frustrating.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: wait, if it was his idea 100%, then wai 'take it on' diana_coman ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: because I let him come over and talk to you; if you have a problem with that, let me know.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i dun have problem w/ this. who wants to talk -- can talk , esp. if so civilized as to even req in advance. and will even let him back in if he wants at some pt ; but i , understand, have an allergy to vyshinsky-style questioning.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: I don't follow what you are on to there; the man looked up to you and he wanted to say what he thought nobody said; you hear what you hear and then somehow also take a swipe at me for some reason, fine; make up your mind though.
asciilifeform: that he 'looked up' , i have only his say-so. mostly what i got was 'come back to mother church, sinner', from that convo.
asciilifeform: if, while supposedly reading my output ( for yrs ? ) he had bothered to ~speak~ to asciilifeform , maybe would have realized that asciilifeform is a (take yer pick) retrograde, counter-revolutionary, believer in 'labor theory', whichever, and could've stopped 'looking up' sooner ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: realise that he also read me and never spoke to me either; anyways, this is neither here nor there; just let me know if you have a problem with either me or him, ok?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: absolutely no prob. diana_coman i haven't spoken much in #o not from ill will, but to avoid denting your snr (and in general i dun like to impose on folx, to go to party where not invited.) but if genuinely needed (somehow) -- will appear, simply ask.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: you might have noticed that I don't speak much in here either and for the same reason - it's your chan; and I'll leave if you want me out of it, for that matter; but at the same time, I won't take bullshit either please.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-08 17:14:12 asciilifeform: shinohai: i -- expected. iirc diana_coman admitted to having sent him (possib with prepped talking points) .
asciilifeform has worked w/ folx subscribing to all sortsa religions. and sometimes, to mutual benefit. but this does require some restraint from both sides of table.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma choose to believe that dorion was working from own head rather than diana_coman's script, simply because i respect diana_coman .
diana_coman: asciilifeform: thank you; it does pose a problem for the future though in that I basically have to forbid anyone to come to you because you'll consider I wrote them a script, correctly?
diana_coman: shinohai: ftr, I don't quite get what you think you are up to there but let me tell you that it looks disgusting.
shinohai: I don't follow diana_coman ... what do you believe I am up to?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma not presume re scripts. ( in fact have been trying to stay outta flamefests , and use the time freed up for work )
diana_coman: shinohai: as I said: I don't quite get what you think you are up to; I just read the #asciilifeform logs though and had enough.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: whether you choose to send your students to visit asciilifeform on whatever subj, is 100% up to you. i'ma promise not to abuse'em. but i do have allergy to cross-examinator-style loaded q's, and appointments to speak made under false presences , as dorion's .
diana_coman: asciilifeform: fwiw I don't do scripts; for one thing I have a ton of other things to do, for another I don't have any problem stating my mind in person and for yet another, I have no interest in puppets, only in people.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i believe.
shinohai: diana_coman is invited to simply ignore my conversation then, what else can I say?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: fwiw he wasn't speaking under false presences/cross-examinator style; he might be inexperienced, yes; but I will aim to warn them off before letting them near you, sure.
diana_coman: shinohai: you could let me know what you think you are up to, I'd listen; obv, you don't have to and that's fine too.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i ~like~ talking to people. possibly too much for health. but the people will get what they get, and it is not always what they want.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: that wouldn't be a problem, no.
asciilifeform is very tired and must bbl.
diana_coman wishes asciilifeform all the best.
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