Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2021-11-09 | 2021-11-11 → ↓
cdd: !!help
asciilifeform: lolhm signpost does this knob still work?
asciilifeform will bbl
asciilifeform: ftr the orig addr contained exactly 33.62385534. why the last broadcast reported 34.48886128, remains a mystery. there were no spends b/w aug. 2020 and today.
asciilifeform: i suspect that at some pt jurov forgot to subtract the amt spent at ye olde piz.
asciilifeform will amend the .txt, since deedbot is apparently on vacation
asciilifeform updated.
asciilifeform genuinely bbl.
signpost turned off the service running that, since it hadn't been used in a very long time.
signpost: I'll see about bringing it back up tomorrow
cdd: Allrighto
cdd: I'm taking the LFS pill, any software recommendations?
cgra: i do appreciate coin rewards, but if i ever end up producing significant value for someone, it's up to him to choose how to compliment -- for now, i don't trust myself skill- and engagement-wise to speak of anything too serious, in advance.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-09 16:39:45 billymg: perhaps cgra would want to earn some of the coin
cgra: i also have a mini-review in response to trb/tbf topic at hand:
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-09 15:48:06 asciilifeform: billymg BingoBoingo cgra dpb mats shinohai signpost thimbronion whaack ( afaik all trb users/experimenters presently tuned in ) 'please speak nao or 4evah hold your peace'
cgra: when i began trb study, i thought i'd read and document the thing, for easier digestion and reference. and i'd simply cut off every line that didn't do anything meaningful, and see if it got any clearer. then, once i'd feel confident in what i'm doing, start operating a node, a node that would not need a daily baby-sitting. while no end in sight, the plan worked, more or less.
cgra: then i ran into a bunch of DoS issues (about to publish a (partial?) summary soonish), and thought they need a fix. breaking a tooth in a fix attempt made me better understand what asciilifeform meant by 'c++ trb being a life support item': there is a near-complete chain of bad ideas depending on each other -- try and touch one, gotta also change a handful of others, and then handful of further handfuls, and so on. that's why i may be
cgra: beginning to also lean on the #1 feature needing a fix first...
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-09 16:40:36 asciilifeform: the #1 missing feature, however, imho is the big one.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-09 12:03:21 asciilifeform: ... but to make the proper replacement.
cgra: what's more, how many of those bad ideas you may replace (if you somehow found a way to isolate them), and still be speaking of trb? i don't necessarily feel qualified to choose.
punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064691 << I made a couple patches that removed things back in the day, but I think they were never merged
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 02:40:47 cgra: when i began trb study, i thought i'd read and document the thing, for easier digestion and reference. and i'd simply cut off every line that didn't do anything meaningful, and see if it got any clearer. then, once i'd feel confident in what i'm doing, start operating a node, a node that would not need a daily baby-sitting. while no end in sight, the plan worked, more or less.
cdd: punkman: speaking of patches, I've noticed there's the Vpatch system which appears to be integrated with the WoT, does that happen to have a guide somewhere?
punkman: cdd, not integrated as such, but the various V tools let you sign patches with GPG
punkman: V being perhaps unfortunate naming choice, hard to search logs for it
punkman: https://archive.md/pRfAz "V-tronics 101: A gentle introduction to The Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin's cryptographically-backed version control system"
punkman: "I’m bothered by the fact that black Punks trade cheaper than white ones. I understand how markets work, but damn, my hope is that the metaverse will a better place, not one with the same prejudices we have in the real world. Call me naive I guess."
shinohai: TOP KEK
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064691 << ftr this was exactly asciilifeform's history with the subj.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 02:40:47 cgra: when i began trb study, i thought i'd read and document the thing, for easier digestion and reference. and i'd simply cut off every line that didn't do anything meaningful, and see if it got any clearer. then, once i'd feel confident in what i'm doing, start operating a node, a node that would not need a daily baby-sitting. while no end in sight, the plan worked, more or less.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 02:40:56 cgra: then i ran into a bunch of DoS issues (about to publish a (partial?) summary soonish), and thought they need a fix. breaking a tooth in a fix attempt made me better understand what asciilifeform meant by 'c++ trb being a life support item': there is a near-complete chain of bad ideas depending on each other -- try and touch one, gotta also change a handful of others, and then handful of further handfuls, and so on. that's why i may be
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064697 << in #t asciilifeform & mp had kilometres of remarkably unproductive discussion about this. the heart of the matter aint complicated tho -- you don't necessarily need 'bug for bug compat.', but you do need sufficiently close emulation so that your noads cannot be induced to fork.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 02:43:06 cgra: what's more, how many of those bad ideas you may replace (if you somehow found a way to isolate them), and still be speaking of trb? i don't necessarily feel qualified to choose.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064703 << imho this remains the best intro written to date. (current-day vtrons use keccak hash in place of sha512 but otherwise algo has not changed substantially)
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 03:13:03 punkman: https://archive.md/pRfAz "V-tronics 101: A gentle introduction to The Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin's cryptographically-backed version control system"
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064683 << a. would be pretty great to have it back, asciilifeform would like to !!deed tbf broadcasts .
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 01:46:05 signpost: turned off the service running that, since it hadn't been used in a very long time.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 03:11:13 punkman: V being perhaps unfortunate naming choice, hard to search logs for it
punkman: should a trb replacement include features needed for mining?
asciilifeform: punkman: i've always thought so (given as 'reference' implementation). not to mention that certain aspects are quite difficult to test w/out this component
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 02:19:15 cdd: I'm taking the LFS pill, any software recommendations?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 09:47:26 asciilifeform: punkman: i've always thought so (given as 'reference' implementation). not to mention that certain aspects are quite difficult to test w/out this component
asciilifeform: punkman: recall that it also imposes segshit & other softforkisms. imho they are 100% uninteresting from trb pov (aside from exploitation pov)
punkman: question is if version 1 block are accepted by other miners
asciilifeform: punkman: segshit miners naturally wouldn't
punkman: i think they might still accept older version blocks
punkman: at least if they are empty, or don't contain segwit txs without the witness data
dpb: if a block is valid, why wouldn't a miner accept it? he rists losing money on his own block by ignoring it
punkman: my guess is there's a subset of trb-valid blocks that might also be prb-valid, but not sure yet
shinohai: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $68312.5
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064586 << i run a trb node at home, behind a router, so it isn't much use to anyone else really
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-09 19:23:28 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064546 << i'd very much like to get folx to commit to participate publicly. min. qualification is 'people running a trb noad', you know who you are.
billymg: i'm slowly working on being able to set one up somewhere, first acquiring hardware for the box
asciilifeform: billymg: asciilifeform was simply aiming to get rough idea of who exactly is interested in trbism currently.
asciilifeform: billymg is defo on the list, with his crawler works
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-10#1064733 << this is rather interesting. tho afaik none of the blox in question were 'anti'-segshit as such
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 10:02:07 punkman: relevant: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/87293
signpost: asciilifeform: will ping ya when !!deed is back up.
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064444 << asciilifeform, you've become the face of trb development in fact. Between bounties and getting some nodes outside your rack, there's sense in you holding the bank and using it for trb
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-09 15:48:06 asciilifeform: billymg BingoBoingo cgra dpb mats shinohai signpost thimbronion whaack ( afaik all trb users/experimenters presently tuned in ) 'please speak nao or 4evah hold your peace'
BingoBoingo: And of course the domains need to be in the hands of someone active
BingoBoingo: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 17 nodes...
watchglass: 185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.053s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.031s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709093
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709093
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.094s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.115s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.120s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709093 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.186s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.168s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.245s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.311s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.611s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709093
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov)
asciilifeform: incidentally iirc BingoBoingo is the reigning noad fleet champ ( 4 ? if i'm not mistaken )
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm down to two nodes. Cut two from the fleet due to hosts that just didn't perform adequately
BingoBoingo: 192.151.158.26:8333 can leave watchglass's poll
asciilifeform: theoretically w/ an improved sync mechanism, even slower boxen could be made to keep up
BingoBoingo: In one case I suspect the "dedicated box" was actually an oversubscribed VPS
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: presently asciilifeform also operates 2 -- 1 in dc, 1 in torture room rack
BingoBoingo doesn't count desk node
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what's new in BingoBoingostan ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: still making films ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Interviewing for a technical writing gig later today
BingoBoingo: May get back on the film thing.
BingoBoingo: Been bouncing from idea to idea, but in 2021 everything seems so late
BingoBoingo: too crowded
BingoBoingo: But the country's doing good
BingoBoingo will be moving from apartment asciilifeform visited in the near future
BingoBoingo: Working on something of a life reboot
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: possib. you saw in log, but there's in fact a ~working pest net !
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-08 12:02:52 thimbronion: For those interested: pest testnet logs here: http://logs.bitdash.io/
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i recall, 'japanese' flat. upgrading ?
BingoBoingo: Congrats
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform Actually more of a lateral move. Going to plant myself and the Step Intern in a one or two star hotel in Centro and think about what I really want.
BingoBoingo: Had been thinking about moving into a historic Palacio Salvo flat, but... want to expose myself more intensely to vintage Uruguay construction
asciilifeform: it's interesting, the 'hotel of doom' where asciilifeform stayed 1st night on most recent voyage to BingoBoingostan -- where e.g. no toiletpaper -- had palatial architecture
asciilifeform: 4m ceilings, lath'n'plaster, full works
BingoBoingo: Kinda wanna see if living in an "of doom" sorta place if removing the "of doom" seems feasible.
asciilifeform: oughta be; simply question of price
BingoBoingo: Spent a bit more than a week in plywood shack at the edge of civilization back in July. Shack part wasn't so bad. Nature was great. Turns out apparently some sort of minimum population is required to think about living somewhere
asciilifeform: some folx are cut out for life in 'mars station'. not erryone.
asciilifeform: imho aint a thing to be ashamed of, any more than not playing the cello is
BingoBoingo: Population of that particular hamlet is somewhere between 30 and 50 during winter. Maybe cut them out and it could be fine.
BingoBoingo: But the tiny permanent population is just... enough people to bother. Not enough to hope to encounter people-people
asciilifeform not lived in such a place, cannot comment pithily
BingoBoingo: On the plus side A+++ fish there.
BingoBoingo: The restaurant/hostel/bar serving bought fresh from fisher-ñery's bucket
asciilifeform: wb mod6 !
mod6: hi asciilifeform
mod6: ty o7
mod6: We're you guys looking for me? Saw in the logs ...
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 00:27:48 asciilifeform: !!deed http://www.loper-os.org/pub/trb/trb_change_of_guard.txt
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: mod6: orig. was gonna ask if you knew where jurov was, but then the latter showed up and see above.
asciilifeform: mod6: and in context of various interesting recent works, asciilifeform is aiming to bring back tbf as a living (rather than statuesque) entity.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 11:57:15 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: possib. you saw in log, but there's in fact a ~working pest net !
mod6: Ah, ok, just read through. Who will be the chairs for TBF, if you are to be the Treasurer and WWW maintainer?
mod6: Ok, I better follow the other link there, one sec.
asciilifeform: mod6: at this moment asciilifeform is 'judge, jury, executioner'. would like to return to a moar seemly geometry in the future, however.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-09 19:23:28 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-09#1064546 << i'd very much like to get folx to commit to participate publicly. min. qualification is 'people running a trb noad', you know who you are.
mod6: Ah, ok. Well, certainly it is necessary to continue upon TBF & TRB work. We all benefit from its success.
asciilifeform: mod6: what have you been up to these days ?
mod6: Indeed, wearing all of the hats can be complex and tiring at times. Getting additional help to separate responsibilities is important, and sounds like the goal.
mod6: (I'm not saying anything not already known, fwiw, just 'saying it anyway').
asciilifeform: for folx recently tuned in -- mod6 historically did large % of the heavy lifting work for tbf.
mod6: < asciilifeform> mod6: what have you been up to these days ? << Been busy doing lot of meat-space things. And even some trb stuff earlier this year. Got a decent jump on rawtx functions in TRB early summer.
asciilifeform: ( most recently, was instrumental in resolving the 2020 wedge enigma. )
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-02-27 10:44:22 asciilifeform: attn trb operators: 205.134.172.27 is nao running mod6's latest variant, augmented with this experimental patch (my sig thereof ) .
asciilifeform: mod6: a neato !
mod6: Have not published or done tons of testing on my own, been distracted by rennovations and other similar meat-space responsibilities.
asciilifeform: mod6: i'ma be bringing back the ml, so will be great to have your experiments
mod6: As the year winds down, I do plan to continue work in this direction.
asciilifeform: mod6: similarly, asciilifeform has been mired in commercial liquishit, and not published too many things of note in past yr
mod6: bringing back the ML would be really great imho. It cuts both ways, it used to be kinda clunky, but at least people could post, and all the submissions were stored in one place.
asciilifeform: ( more or less just one thing )
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: mod6: imho a ready place to drop patches is essential.
mod6: *nod*
mod6: oooh Pest. Nice, will read in full.
asciilifeform: and thimbronion has a py prototype, several folx running nao.
asciilifeform: !q uptime
dulapbot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 147d 13h 22m
asciilifeform: ^ only this long since demise of fleanode
mod6: Also, yes, F FN.
asciilifeform applauds return of mod6 , hopes that he stays tuned, lotsa interesting things happening.
asciilifeform: iirc punkman has own prototype. and asciilifeform , with characteristic snail pace, baking own
shinohai: Oh hai mod6 ! o/
mod6: Did your proposed patch of this ever go anywhere?
mod6: shinohai: Howdy friend!
asciilifeform: hmm oddly brokenlink
mod6: erp. my bad, one sec.
signpost: howdy mod6. sorry that we came to blows during the demise of tmsr, and welcome back. this is trinque.
asciilifeform: mod6: both of asciilifeform's noades running with that patch
mod6: Oh hello signpost, it's water under the bridge old friend.
asciilifeform: (fixes laffable bug carelessly introduced by asciilifeform himself when wrote original dump knob)
mod6: asciilifeform: ok good to know, thanks.
mod6: lol, my irc speed has slooooowed. holy crap.
mod6: Have to relax back into this saddle.
asciilifeform: mod6: cgra has been doing some 1st class trb digging. iirc he's working on an exposition of various vintage bugola.
mod6: yeah, read something about that. very important work / investigations.
asciilifeform: very sharp fella, also tipped off asciilifeform re ffa at various times
mod6: Excellent. I love seeing folks take an interest and put effort into TRB. It's so important.
asciilifeform: mod6: aand billymg baked a planetary noad crawler earlier.
asciilifeform: (based on wg)
asciilifeform: worx a++.
asciilifeform: revealed what asciilifeform long suspected -- the population of properly working relays is quite small.
mod6: Ahh, yeah. Very cool. Looks like I've got some catching up to do if I'm to say anything meaningful.
asciilifeform: mod6: don't overdose, lol
asciilifeform: take it as slow as you gotta.
mod6: Haha, I'll take it slow for sure. :]
asciilifeform: log snr imho a++ by historical standards -- 0 camwhores, ~0 lamers
mod6: outstanding!
asciilifeform: mod6: current log smoothly incorporates historic log, for search/linkage purposes. all old links munged to redirect correctly etc.
asciilifeform: billymg did some a++ cleanup of the logotron.
signpost: I'm sure shinohai can scare up some tits if we ask him.
mod6: Thank you for keeping all of that going through these last years. I know it's work, and it's not free.
mod6: signpost: lol, indeed.
asciilifeform: yw mod6 . and defo was not asciilifeform alone, plenty of hands .
mod6: I applaud all of the hands that helped. Thank you all. It's worthwhile effort without question.
shinohai: signpost: anytime! Though I prefer more quality tits than those discord trannies mp wanted me to scare up.
asciilifeform: imho defo moved past stage of 'nostalgia pit'
mod6: I have to admit tho, sometimes the crazy / eyes-bleeding pics were so bad, they were good - like a train wreck.
mod6: But, indeed, quality++.
signpost: asciilifeform: indeed.
mod6: *nod*
mod6: I think it's high-time for a new era.
mod6: I'll commit to testing your dumpblocks_force_mainchain vpatch as soon as I get some time. This sounds bad, but hopefully can report back before end of year.
mod6: I'll also continue work / testing on that rawtx stuff and report in. I think the main function that I'm currently needed to build is signrawtransaction(). I believe I might have all the rest working.
mod6: (I may hvae an implementation of sendrawtransaction(), I'll have to look - unsure at this point. Certainly have not tested it, if I do have it implemented.)
mod6: I also understand that the goal is, or was, to separate the wallet from trb so the rawtx work I'm doing probably doesn't have a lot of legs or long term use. But I thought it worthwhile to build those tools, at lesat even for my own node / enrichment.
mod6: *shrug*
asciilifeform: mod6: imho entirely worthwhile.
asciilifeform: if not for these 'may not have long legs' experiments, we'd've not had trb at all.
mod6: Solid point.
mod6: It's been pretty handy just having 'getrawtransaction()'.
asciilifeform: aha. whaack was doing all kinds of 'block explore' experiments (atm he's on hiatus from iirc injured hands)
asciilifeform: he's the 1 who found the dumpblock oops
mod6: Ah, might have read that.
mod6: Great work.
mod6: Does anyone know if Ben ever kept mimisbrunnr<sp> going or ever published his code? Was useful too, once upon a time.
asciilifeform: !q seen bomolochus
dulapbot: bomolochus last seen here on 2021-09-17 15:54:56: thimbronion: stock character from greek plays, "buffoon" aha
asciilifeform: ^ he reappeared briefly , and perhaps will again
asciilifeform: afaik not published the old src
asciilifeform: fella took to meatspace work and even his www has been cold for some yrs
asciilifeform: would be nifty if considered to return.
mod6: Ah, *nod*
mod6: I def need a log dive and some catch up here.
asciilifeform: mod6: no reason to hurry. asciilifeform suspects that mod6 will find the pest discussions interesting.
mod6: oh for sure, I did try to keep up with the details in the early discussion, but sadly wasn't able to keep up. I'll circle back through that as well.
asciilifeform: mod6: originally we wanted to bake an ordinary irc net, then discovered that ircism intrinsically mandates 'supernodes' i.e. central points of failure.
asciilifeform: which is the ultimate reason why every irc net which didn't wither away from disuse, eventually ended up like fleanode.
mod6: right, it was an interesting new take on the old discussion of ... what was it called? christ, can't even remember.
asciilifeform: 'gossipd'
mod6: yes, thank you
mod6: pretty exciting stuff.
asciilifeform: it's a solution to same problem, such as is possible w/out dedicated rsa coprocessors
mod6: *nod*
asciilifeform: the spec is a pretty quick read imho.
asciilifeform: (certainly weighs 'over9000x' less than full spec for irc...)
mod6: \o/
mod6: I'll read up on your spec. Any successful tests yet?
mod6: Or just spec only at this point?
asciilifeform: thimbronion has mostly working prototype, a number of folx testing atm
mod6: neato!
mod6: Also, I should note re-wedge 2020, I was running with the experimental patch at the time; my nodes didn't miss a beat.
asciilifeform: mod6: cgra discovered coupla moar potential wedges, he's in the process of writing'em up
mod6: I didn't jump in and comment, simply because I didn't have anything different to report than what you were already saying. But probably should have.
mod6: That's great to hear. Uncovering any such snags will help us all.
asciilifeform: mod6: dun hesitate to write in, even if 'not ate 100% of log', you're 1 of the few folx who actually dug in trb guts productively to date.
mod6: Cheers. Will write in on such things.
asciilifeform must bbl
mod6: Yeah, trbs bowels are ... well... lol, you know.
mod6: Thanks for the warm welcome in here. I'll hang out, will check back periodically, ofc.
signpost: deedbot will be offline briefly to pop a new SSD in.
thimbronion: I've been following eugyppius for a while.
asciilifeform: punkman: very nifty www ( and new to asciilifeform ) , ty
asciilifeform will comment further when gets a chance
punkman now has to get tested if he wants to eat at restaurant (and only outdoors), get haircut, shop retail, interact with gov/city services
punkman: meanwhile, something like 50-60% of cops are unvaxxed, you know the ones that will fine you if they catch you without the proper papers
cdd: thimbronion: Is the tarball linked here complete except for the genesis vpatch in the more recent blogpost mentioned here?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-10 13:00:45 asciilifeform: thimbronion has mostly working prototype, a number of folx testing atm
thimbronion: cdd: I wouldn't try to use that tarball. It will run, but it's missing a lot of important changes.
cdd: thimbronion: I'm not too familiar with V, is genesis a patch (for that tarball) or is it like the first git commit in a repo?
cdd: Let me rephrase; Is genesis.vdiff standalone, or is it a patch to be applied to an existing build (i.e. Alcuin 9994)
thimbronion: genesis is more like the first commit.
thimbronion: Note that in the versioning system that blatta uses, lower numbers correlate to later releases
cdd: yessir, I also noticed you skipped a version?
cdd: 9993?
asciilifeform: cdd: this practice is sometimes called 'kelvin versioning'. orig. idea was d.e.knuth's, picture an object cooling, going to (but never reaching) 'absolute 0'
thimbronion: cdd: genesis.vpatch was actually 9993
asciilifeform: the latter corresponds to an utterly perfect, bug-free proggy.
asciilifeform: e.g. ffa is kelvin-versioned.
cdd: thimbronion: oh I see.
cdd: asciilifeform: I was thinking about the versioning system before you guys mentioned it, I'd like to suggest a similar thing to TeX, why not use decimal places of say Phi?
asciilifeform: knuth's tex 'approached pi' (iirc 'upon the death of the author, the version shall equal pi')
asciilifeform prefers the simplicity of integers to represent 'cooling'
cdd: That is of course a very understandable argument.
asciilifeform: see e.g. this exposition.
cdd: asciilifeform: I have a few problems, 1. I don't understand Finite Field Arithmetic, 2. I don't understand (is that haskell?) whatever programming language is being used.
asciilifeform: cdd: ada.
cdd: ah
asciilifeform: cdd: if you did e.g. pascal as a kid, you will find it ~99% readable, there's 0 haskellistic exoticism in it (is straightforward imperative lang, similar to c but w/out the buf. overflows and related 'amusements')
cdd: well, to my usual spot then: lol.
cdd: whatt
cdd: I lemme check the site, I just assumed it was there because of the url-format
cdd: ...it is not there. Well shit.
asciilifeform normally recommends to noobs ffa itself as a lang intro text.
asciilifeform: folx who read from ch1 generally don't find themselves in need of ref boox
cdd: Right. Time to add ada to a list of things for my LFS build.
cdd: I'll give it a shot once I've got everything in order on atleast (one) of my devices.
asciilifeform: cdd: don't let the title frighten you, 'finite field arithm' simply refers to what more often is called 'bignum' (arithm. ops. with integers larger than fit in a machine word)
cdd: Ohhhh
asciilifeform: why this was needed is detailed in ch1.
cdd: I will read up.
asciilifeform: don't try to eat errything at once, cdd , i rec to pick a thing and 1atatime
asciilifeform: it is not given to anyone to be interested in errything simult.
cdd: asciilifeform: Yeah, I'm learning my lesson when it comes to that. Even now, I'm trying to learn Common Lisp, build LFS and not explode.
cdd: I better focus on this, I might not be on for a while, be well and thank you.
asciilifeform: cdd: no worries.
vex: asciilifeform, it's probably pertinent to update the original trb charter with whatever subsequent items have been agreed upon in the logs
vex: I don't have it in front om me, but I remember my own misgivings
vex is neither lawyer nor gynaecologist, but fuck it. I'll have a look
vex: from memory, if both bomo and mod resigned, divide by zero
vex: go get a sandwich or pay back jurov are allowable under the contract
vex: you could park a peterbilt with 3 trailers sideways into that charter
vex: maybe that's a good thing.
vex: in any case, theres twelftie million lines of logs after the charter.
signpost: should be done joining/parting.
vex: ssstutterap
asciilifeform: vex: rewrite of charter ranks somewhere near dead last atm.
asciilifeform: not that it oughn't to be done.
asciilifeform: oh hm iguess notyet. signpost lemme know when to try it again.
asciilifeform: (or i suppose it doesn't have to be asciilifeform pushing that button)
vex: notrlly my place to talk
vex: you're a fine wordsmith alf
vex: I doubt jurov will accept any forkcoin from trb coffers.
vex: I wouldn't oppose it
vex: once upon a time I woulda deffered to mats on matters like this, but he has declared his bias
signpost: asciilifeform: it's already enqueued, will pop out the other side in a few days
signpost: then quicker after that
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