Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

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PeterL: << I was reading IRC RFC , and it seems to say that triangles are not allowed. I don't really understand why?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-26 20:11:44 asciilifeform: so, a net of 2 'ratboxen' superficially worx. but, we already knew this. now, can haz 3 ? and in triangle formation.
web-701: herros
shinohai: Greets
web-701: whaack had a q about my rsi experience, which is in the logs somewhere
web-701: talon voice is the ticket to continued productivity and symptom mgmt,
snsabot: Logged on 2020-06-18 16:39:26 mats:
web-701: theres this setup page, not sure how current it is,
web-701: talon's speech recognition precision has noticeably improved for me in the last year, i can reliably use it over a bluetooth mic without obvious increases in recognition error rates
web-701: buying a one handed keyboard to manage your rsi is probably one of the dumbest fucking things ive ever heard someone say theyve tried
web-701: and i know a guy who used a brick to bash the shit out of his wrist
web-701: depending on the affected hand, you might try different kinds of pointing devices , like a large trackpad surface (i have a magic trackpad), eyetracker like tobii 4c, stylus, vertical mice
web-701: with enough practice and liberal use of scripts, talon people have gotten to 60-80wpm, which is more than enough
web-701: and i suspect theres a bizness opportunity or two, through tight integrations with soft like cad photoshop lightroom
web-701: its kind of amazing how much market penetration dragon has, across many verticals, and their product is stuck in the late 90s
asciilifeform: lol mats (?), not bothering even to set nick anymoar?
asciilifeform: << apparently there aint a cycle-finder, at least per rfc.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-28 08:49:02 PeterL: << I was reading IRC RFC , and it seems to say that triangles are not allowed. I don't really understand why?
asciilifeform: 'If a SERVER message is parsed and attempts to introduce a server which is already known to the receiving server, the connection from which that message must be closed (following the correct procedures), since a duplicate route to a server has formed and the acyclic nature of the IRC tree broken.
asciilifeform has been reading the src of 'ratbox', thinking 'so how does it deduplicate messages..?', answr is, 'doesn't'
asciilifeform: soo, unless we find an irctron that is somehow smarter than bare rfc gives (fat chance) this turns up the heat on 'replace irc'
asciilifeform: i.e. w/ traditional irc, holes in the net have to be repaired ~manually, by reconfigging. which sux mightily.
PeterL: Any time a server goes down you end up with a netsplit.
asciilifeform: PeterL: aha.
asciilifeform: seems we've a verdict: irc is inherently incatronic.
PeterL: is this something that we could change about IRC?
asciilifeform: it forces a tree-shaped graph.
asciilifeform: PeterL: seems to me currently that the protocol per se is broken, and to fix it would break compatibility (such as it even existed) b/w irctrons. so effectively need new protocol.
asciilifeform: we prolly ought to form the hand-to-hand chain for nao, it is still an improvement over 'errybody on dulap'. but this aint sustainable.
asciilifeform will, it appears, have to dust off a certain barbaric prototype.
gregorynyssa: trinque: here is a message for you.
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: so IRC protocol requires network-graph to be undirected + acyclical. that explains a lot.
gregorynyssa: needless to say, this was to avoid the problem of deduplication.
gregorynyssa: for small network such as ours, deduplication is not hard. simply retain hashes of last N messages, and do not route messages with same hash.
gregorynyssa: however, standard IRC messages do not contain timestamp, so this has the consequence of disallowing a person to say
gregorynyssa: the same thing twice or more within M seconds.
gregorynyssa: that is a small price to pay IMO.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: you do understand how this aint irc nomoar, but new protocol, right?
asciilifeform: (i.e. you now need erryone to use a concrete $proggy)
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: this is more of a soft fork, not a hard fork.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: how so? i.e. can you use a standard ircd w/ such item ? (how?)
gregorynyssa: clients will be unaffected, for one thing.
gregorynyssa: also, within every cycle, only on IRCD will need the patch.
gregorynyssa: that IRCD prevents that unpatched IRCDs from realizing that they are in a cycle.
gregorynyssa: * the unpatched IRCDs
gregorynyssa: * only one IRCD will need the patch
PeterL: << If you make the protocol straigforward enough, there could be multiple implementations?
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-28 11:25:53 asciilifeform: (i.e. you now need erryone to use a concrete $proggy)
asciilifeform: PeterL: in principle
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: elaborate statefulness sucks, there's gotta be a cleaner solution.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-28 10:29:11 asciilifeform: will, it appears, have to dust off a certain barbaric prototype.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, already fell down, lol
asciilifeform did not expect so fast.
asciilifeform: 'Error establishing a database connection'
asciilifeform: i'ma let the troo fans host a live mirror if they want
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-27 21:31:59 asciilifeform: i'ma put tarball up, but not wwwistic crawlable dir until the original falls down (supposing ever does -- e.g. naggum's still up!), the corpse aint paying me to put up w/ the bandwidth load that hosting crawlable copy of that junkyard entails
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-27 21:37:09 asciilifeform: ook, thimbronion , shinohai , and whoever else wants : ; sha512:44b9e7137637bae71ba5cb5902b1c576642f2e88b0333d167d6b0ac294c5ef6a2107967c179dcc290c5724b72aa63b9e8f9507ea3a2900723a5a97ad1077f1ce .
verisimilitude: By the by, asciilifeform, I'm currently reading more about uTP of BitTorrent; since it was questioned earlier, no it doesn't just use TCP.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: 'not just tcp' == 'uses tcp'
asciilifeform: y'know, 'spoon of shit in barrel of wine'
verisimilitude: It can use it.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: didja find a pure-udp variant of bt ?
verisimilitude: Oh, TCP isn't an evil.
verisimilitude: A client could only accept these UDP protocols.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-08-30 22:32:36 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: tcp per se is a mindbogglingly-braindamaged abstraction that never has been and probably never could be implemented even half-sanely . which limits, to asciilifeform's pov, the appeal of the very idea of 'fixing' it.
verisimilitude: If we're going to write of spoiling wine, then the entire Internet is bad, not just TCP.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: this is a fallacy. 'can't lift entire universe, therefore let's sit on our arses'
verisimilitude: I'm not trying to use rhetoric.
verisimilitude: Anyway, it seems BitTorrent can be exclusively UDP, if desired.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: can haz link to docs for this variant?
asciilifeform: previously only encountered the traditional type (tcp for payload, udp for dht)
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: ty
asciilifeform: might be interesting for other applications, but imho does not help us here -- congestion is simply not a concern for text chat, and the associated complexity is not an asset
verisimilitude: Oh, this was just a followup of a previous discussion, not a suggestion.
asciilifeform did not delve into the linked algo in detail, but on cursory look appears to reimplement a good chunk of tcp
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: ah ok
asciilifeform: (tldr: endless repastes of that very same 1 paragraph thing from cr)
whaack: mats: thanks for the advice re voice recognition software. as i mentioned before to versi I would much prefer to avoid getting to the point where I have to use voice recognition. my main hobby is the guitar, which in that case would be completely out the window
whaack: mats: if you have any records of how the problem developed, what the first symptoms were like, etc. that would help as well
shinohai: whaack: made any recordings/videos yet? (re: guitar)
whaack: shinohai: atm just some practice recordings, but I'll upload a piece soon
whaack is going to wait until UPS is turned off and its raining outside, etc.
shinohai: sweet.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, verisimilitude , signpost , possibly others : somebody baked gentoo for 'pinebook' supposedly. (not had chance to test)
asciilifeform: seems like it would readily work w/ asciilifeform's rk-gentoo snapshot as base.
asciilifeform would try, but has much moar pressing, sadly , items atm
whaack: shinohai: i have a reddragon mouse, very happy w/ it and iirc i paid 30 or 40 bucks for it
shinohai: whaack: neato! It's not bad equipment for chinesium. I've had kybd for almost 4 years now I think?
shinohai: Not a single switch problem or faulty led.
verisimilitude: Oh, how neat; perhaps I will just discard the Armbian I downloaded.
verisimilitude: This will be my first gentoo.
signpost: ah cool, ty asciilifeform
signpost: only problem with pinebook is the entirely dogshit trackpad
signpost uses minimally, but when has to, infuriating.
signpost: seems like it is affected by CPU load, or some other source of lag
asciilifeform: signpost: i suspect buggy fw in it.
asciilifeform: not so important to asciilifeform , who uses 'ratpoison'
asciilifeform: but defo annoying , esp. w/ the heathenlinux which came with that box
verisimilitude: I only have one trackball, and it's usually attached to another machine.
verisimilitude: I increased the sensitivity to make it bearable.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, 100+ moochers leeched/leeching mp tarball. motherfuckers, wtf, put up own mirror.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-27 21:37:09 asciilifeform: ook, thimbronion , shinohai , and whoever else wants : ; sha512:44b9e7137637bae71ba5cb5902b1c576642f2e88b0333d167d6b0ac294c5ef6a2107967c179dcc290c5724b72aa63b9e8f9507ea3a2900723a5a97ad1077f1ce .
asciilifeform didn't sign up to run mausoleum for phree
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I'm still downloading -> going direct to CR so a bit slow.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: was gonna bake a torrent eventually, but did not anticipate the original box drowning so quickly
asciilifeform: in misc lulz: turns out that one casualty of the fleanodocalypse was the lock on #trilema. (not that, imho, there's anything left to be said there. unless someone wants to post a tombstone.)
thimbronion: His passing received quite a lot of attention on twatter.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: odd that only now.
asciilifeform expected that he was ~dead last to find out
thimbronion likely broke the story on that platform.
asciilifeform couldn't muster half a fuck to give re what happens on twatter on any subj whatsoever, before -- and not now either
thimbronion: seems like interesting stuff happens there occasionally. Bukele has been announcing news re: the Bitcoin legal tender developments in El Salvador, for instance.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: can you tell me roughly why anyone outside of el salv. oughta care ?
asciilifeform: it aint as if e.g. asciilifeform can go there, sell a coin, then move untaxed usd back home
asciilifeform: (aside from 'in arse')
asciilifeform: what's it do, exactly, this 'declared legal tender'
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I dunno DC vs. El Salvador - which has more Salvadorenos, not sure.
asciilifeform: perhaps similar
thimbronion: mandated to be accepted by all vendors.
asciilifeform: but i do wonder, what's the practical effect: so, maybe asciilifeform can go to el s., and buy all the bananas he wants w/ btc. fat lotta good..
asciilifeform: seems imho like cheap signalling.
thimbronion: I'm having ES checked out to see if it's livable. Will post details.
asciilifeform: perhaps if you've enuff coin, mars also livable.
thimbronion: In terms of what's in it for ES - seems to be just a cheaper way to suck in remittances.
thimbronion: For me - I've come to prefer central american living.
thimbronion: Losing the infrastructure advantages the US has on what seems like a monthly basis.
thimbronion: Also, more and more the CA rifraff are being sent north, releaving the pressure down there.
thimbronion: *relieving
asciilifeform: thimbronion: yer in cr currently?
thimbronion: Nah been back stateside for a week.
asciilifeform: (i seem to recall you had difficulty perma-relocating)
verisimilitude: Unfortunately, many artists use Twitter.
verisimilitude: Twitter's resisting RSS is a great example of how capitalism fights against true efficiencies.
billymg: << i killed my download of this since it showed 1-2 days remaining, will wait for the torrent and then seed
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-28 16:42:52 asciilifeform: meanwhile, 100+ moochers leeched/leeching mp tarball. motherfuckers, wtf, put up own mirror.
billymg: asciilifeform: i'm also getting close to making the crawler site live, at least a basic version so that others can take a look and provide feedback. at that point i think i'll need to upgrade from my rk to a bigger rig, especially since i also want to run whaack's block explorer on there
billymg: asciilifeform: i'm wondering 1) could you clone the rk drive to a new machine if i lease another from you and 2) could i, at that time, cancel the remainder of the rk lease and have it credited to the new box?
asciilifeform: billymg: absolutely can clone; don't worry about the current one, you can pay the pro-rated difference when you choose & get the new one
asciilifeform: billymg: to be concrete, i can plug your rk ssd into new box so you can move whatever you like from user data; but obv. if you get x86 box it'll have a virginal os (by default , dulap-gentoo) there
asciilifeform: billymg: neato re: crawler.
billymg: asciilifeform: cool, sounds good, will let you know when i'm ready to make the switch
asciilifeform: ^ shinohai + errybody else who asked for this item
billymg: asciilifeform: don't have permission to download
asciilifeform: try nao
billymg: asciilifeform: works, ty
asciilifeform: odd, i aint seeing a connection
asciilifeform: billymg: 'works' as in what kB/s?
billymg: ah, just as in, added the torrent file
billymg bbl, dinner
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in wtf, people.
asciilifeform: ^ this, apparently, d00d.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-01-18 14:26:12 snsabot: (trilema) 2014-06-26 asciilifeform: ;;rate ninjashogun -1
asciilifeform: holy mother of fuck. prolly not the last of these, either.
shinohai: <<< tyvm asciilifeform now 100% easier to seize and distribute.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-28 21:23:39 asciilifeform: billymg: try plz
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