asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 16 nodes...
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687942
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.087s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687942
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.107s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687942 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Alive: (0.094s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=687942 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.144s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687942
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.173s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687942
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.213s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687942
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (static.18.104.22.168.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.337s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=412055 (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.326s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687942
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.299s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687942
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Alive: (0.336s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687942
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : (tlapnet-38-54.cust.tlapnet.cz) Alive: (0.349s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687942
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.544s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=687942
asciilifeform will be moving watchglass to dulapnet in near future.
signpost: ohey, it used my old nick. I think I'll keep it that way.
signpost: asciilifeform: lmk if/when you want deedbot to join here
asciilifeform: signpost: when you get a chance, hook it up plz. lemme know if needs special handling on my end.
asciilifeform pictures that we'll at least need a unique login for it, otherwise 'screen door in submarine'
asciilifeform: (alternatively, hardcoded ip as a temp. measure)
asciilifeform: on second thought! errything i just said, is entirely wrong algo. there is no need for it :
asciilifeform: ... every bot should connect strictly to owner's relay, via localhost.
asciilifeform: this eliminates any need for magical auth for bots themselves.
asciilifeform: let's not build the centralized hell of fleanode again. centralization sucks, no matter who's doing it.
asciilifeform: individual people operate relays; peer by mutual agreement; like in '89.
asciilifeform: soo, signpost, let's get a 2nd relay in this net (yours) and then plug deedbot into ~that~ plz. (similarly to how i plugged dulapbot in here)
asciilifeform: this will solve a number of problems, incl. syncing loggers (the netsplit handler will do it automagically)
asciilifeform: signpost: for this pilot box i used this irctron. if you know of a cleaner one, we can switch to that; otherwise as i understand all relays will have to live with this one.
billymg: i still haven't figured out how to maintain two connections in my znc
asciilifeform: signpost: item may be in fact catastrophically buggy in known and unknown ways. so open to suggestions for replacement.
billymg: for now i just connected direct as a sanity check to make sure i had the pw right
asciilifeform: billymg: wb. i haven't tried znc yet with this
billymg: two networks* in znc
asciilifeform: billymg: consider to post detail when you get it going
billymg: asciilifeform: ah ok
billymg: if anyone else managed to get znc working please let me know the proper hoops to jump through
billymg: supposedly possible to have multiple networks in a single znc instance https://wiki.znc.in/Connecting_to_ZNC#Connecting_to_Multiple_Networks
billymg: also possible to have multiple znc users, i haven't tried this route yet but may do that next
thestringpuller: lol [Mark Cuban is now fuel for the chumpatron][https://www.newsweek.com/mark-cuban-hit-titan-crypto-crash-price-near-zero-1601481]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: link goes before title
shinohai: I'm loving he got rug pulled
shinohai: (now is crying "moar regulations!" this morning)
thestringpuller: buddy of mine who made a bit of money on eth pump and dump, was trynna convince me "yo just put your btc in yield farming". um no thanks, i think i'll just have it sit in this safe for a few more years.
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-17#1039520 <<< lulzy read, proud to mention he worked for "coinapult" the multisig wallet with shitcoin integration tucked within.
shinohai: Can't wait to see what bits of that wind up in future jfw wallet release.
asciilifeform: shinohai: recall, for no less a spamfigure than vorhees.
shinohai: Voorhees outright scammer that blows the SEC, as far as I'm concerned.
asciilifeform: iirc in fact professional spammer, a la nigeria, in the end.
asciilifeform: 'we thought we hit bottom, then heard a knock from below'
shinohai: He started a twitter-spam-as-a-service site, sold shares on GLBSE, then closed shop when sec came knockin'.
shinohai: (not to mention "satoshi dice" spam on the blockchain)
thestringpuller: Dice games are profitable tho. jdice allowed for outside investment but feds came and forced dooglus to shut it down.
thestringpuller: just dice or whatever it was called
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-10 19:58:56 asciilifeform: does anyone even know which of the 1e8 clones of sdice is 'king' atm ? or why ?
asciilifeform: sorta why sdice folded as soon as the other php monkeys mustered the $smallint consecutive days of sobriety required to write reasonable clones of it.
asciilifeform: btw thestringpuller , if you haven't read the log, i'ma move outta fleanode in not too long.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-15 22:10:18 asciilifeform: i'ma leave this going for nao, ought to suffice for keeping the flame going. will sit in also in fleanode, of course, until the latter is entirely dead.
asciilifeform: it's rather funny, thestringpuller , asciilifeform didn't give a flying fuck about mark cubans, their shitcoins, vorheeses, their scamologies, in '11, and still 'for some reason' can't muster a fuck to give about'em
asciilifeform: the principal sin of these folx isn't even swindling (swindles can be interesting) but ~tedium~. they're tedious and unimaginative.
shinohai: But using Ethereum shrimp farming nodes to ddos the network and liberate the BTC within is SO MUCH FUN.
asciilifeform: the promise is always ~exactly the same -- 'money for nuffin' -- and the result also same.
asciilifeform: shinohai: what's a 'shrimp' in this context ?
shinohai: asciilifeform: https://archive.is/U8Vg1 ( see also: http://btc.info.gf/blog/enumerating-geth-nodes-for-fun-and-profit.html )
asciilifeform: lol, they still do the faucets thing?!
shinohai: This was the early form of "defi farming" but the geth client allowed anyone to run whatever the fuck rpc call they wanted remotely, could easily empty the wallet into your own.
asciilifeform: ... on 2nd reading, seems more similar to the auto-pyramid thing shinohai linked a while ago
asciilifeform: shinohai: they never invented password or anyffin of the kind?
shinohai: Only after it it was discovered "Hey maybe we shouldn't use default configs on this stuff!"
asciilifeform still strongly suspects that the ev of picking up coins at train stations is higher than of any dealings with the described public
asciilifeform: shinohai: 1 of the reasons why scammers of this type are an 'attractive nuisance' is that folx come to believe -- quite mistakenly -- that e.g. 'next time i!!! might be the one to pick up that $mil as the thief drops it on its way out of a chump's pocket'.
asciilifeform: this is how most spammers, for instance, were created.
asciilifeform: (they heard that someone, somewhere, 'friend of friend', made profit from spamming)
shinohai: I'd say 95% of the Indian economy based off above
asciilifeform: whereas in reality, 10 times outta 10, it won't be ~you~ , 3rd party, who picks up anyffin, but the fella who organized the theft, he will be in the correct time and place. to believe otherwise is rather like to try to live off the spurts of blood from the necks of vampire victims post-bite.
asciilifeform: shinohai: based on ~the belief~, aha
asciilifeform: but not on the reality. at one time asciilifeform pwned a group of ro spammers/malware artists. their net take in ~2y of working round the clock, was around u.s. 600 $.
asciilifeform: it was difficult not to feel sorry for these people.
shinohai: You have more empathy than I.
asciilifeform: dunno, i'd feel at least a little for even a pickpocket if somehow every pocket he ever picked had only lint
shinohai: At some point, do these folx see the -ev in what they are doing and ever think "Maybe I should look into something *else*" ?
shinohai: Or is this just how human evolution worx.
asciilifeform: 'properly socialized' (as they like to call themselves) people live under a cruel curse, they mindlessly play back taped behaviours copied from one another (and handed down from 'above') and then wonder why 'live under a curse', 'so much effort but achieve 0'
asciilifeform: the criminals (for broadest possible def. of the word) aren't exempt somehow, are not nietzschean supermen as e.g. mp would have you think; they simply copied and play different tapes.
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 1d 8h 28m
asciilifeform: !q uptime
dulapbot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 1d 15h 52m
PeterL: asciilifeform: what was the longest it has been connected on FreeNode?
asciilifeform: PeterL: dulapbot aint on fleanode. the old bot on various occasions sat for coupla months
busybot: The bot has been up for: 1 days 19 hours 5 minutes and 17 seconds
asciilifeform: btw for folx who don't intend to inhabit heathen irc nets -- instead of znc, would do far better to run a dulapnet relay. you get same functionality, plus a place to plug in own bots, proper syncing, etc
PeterL: how big of a computer would running a relay require?
asciilifeform: PeterL: almost arbitrarily small box suffices -- considering the # of expected users
asciilifeform: need static ip tho.
asciilifeform: (and reasonably stable connection, naturally)
verisimilitude: I could, but would rather not. This is one protocol I still don't run a server for, and I'd rather stay that way.
asciilifeform aims to persuade all the folx he regularly speaks to in #a to set up relays. that way never again anyone has to give a fuck about 'ohnoez, fleanode sux', 'moderators fascists', etc
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: why, outta curiosity ? irc is ultra-cheap re cpu, disk, bw vs just about anything else
verisimilitude: I already run HTTP, Gophher, SMTP, and help with other venues.
asciilifeform has wider political aims, here as elsewhere -- to show folx, even 'seen through a keyhole', what decentralization looks like -- in contrast to the typical 'star-topology' systems peddled by dependence-culturing sociopaths
verisimilitude: IRC, and most such protocols, are more pleasant when the server is the issue of another.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: seems like you already understand the cost of having yer http served by 3rd parties, tho
asciilifeform: w/ irc -- similar, in spades.
verisimilitude: I already have a channel for myself on another network, which I help run, but don't handle the server itself.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: this, as you can observe with naked eye now, worx -- until it doesn't.
asciilifeform: if you're content to be a plaything of the wind, and to be blown here and there as it changes -- who am i to argue.
verisimilitude: I don't even like IRC.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: then why here??
verisimilitude: I like discussing things with some here.
verisimilitude: That doesn't mean I like the protocol.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: just about all the folx here have www comments, etc. otherwise contactable other than by irc. so if verisimilitude is here, must prefer sumthing about ircism ? or what am i missing?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: what do you dislike about the protocol?
signpost hates, also, the protocol, but hasn't a replacement yet
asciilifeform suspects that no one ~likes~ , as such , the protocol. but it is ~simple~ and so lives on.
signpost: at least this situation of peered servers among WoT is better than freenode
asciilifeform: really folx oughta have returned (it's the historic shape of irc) to this loong ago.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-17#1039550 << this sounds great
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-17 11:25:13 asciilifeform: soo, signpost, let's get a 2nd relay in this net (yours) and then plug deedbot into ~that~ plz. (similarly to how i plugged dulapbot in here)
asciilifeform: but erryone somehow always has sumthing more interesting to do..
verisimilitude: It's closer to real-time.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-17#1039552 << I haven't developed a preference among these, so this one's fine by me.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-17 11:28:20 asciilifeform: signpost: for this pilot box i used this irctron. if you know of a cleaner one, we can switch to that; otherwise as i understand all relays will have to live with this one.
asciilifeform: signpost: aapparently the 4.x that actually builds on gentoo, all are remotely crashable via the (non-disableable) sslism. which is ugh.
signpost: lemme see what I put on the deedbot server as an experiment at some point
asciilifeform: pretty gnarly setup, too, the file permissions are wildly wrong outta the box, had to fix manuall..
signpost: I don't recall whether I liked it, seemed to work
asciilifeform: signpost: didja experiment with multi-serverism w/ that one ?
asciilifeform: typically this is the trickiest bit (and where most of the subtle bombs lie)
signpost: nah didn't try that yet
asciilifeform: signpost: if you can spare the cycles, do me favour : link up two own boxen w/ that irctron. then we can swap out this 1 (i'd like to keep 1 warm at all times if possible.)
asciilifeform suspects that if 'ratbox' built on signpost's box, will likely build on asciilifeform's w/out coughing
signpost: sure, will let ya know when I've tried that out
signpost: can either this evening or tomorrow evening
asciilifeform: signpost: a++ !
verisimilitude: Freenode disconnected me, earlier.
verisimilitude: Are we still bothering to reconnect?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i'm still sitting there, to stay in touch with the several folk who haven't moved here. i expect that after we get an actual net (vs. '1 box w/ hardcoded pw' barrel organ) going, will check outta fleanode permanently.
asciilifeform: snsabot is also there, sitting in the various chans where folx requested it, incl. mine, and logging in parallel.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-16 13:40:57 asciilifeform: Aerthean: welcome. please keep in mind that the only bridge b/w dulapnet and fleanode is my log www; messages spoken here will appear in the latter but not in fleanode.
asciilifeform: watchglass is for the time being also there.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: 1 of the uses of #a is for asciilifeform to inform isp subscribers re outages; which i still cannot do if the sole relay lives in my own rack.
asciilifeform: another use is to receive guests via asciilifeform's www. and i still don't have a means for doing this here; while the fleanode webirc thing sorta worx (for nao.. who knows for how long)
verisimilitude: Letting the informing node itself go down is good enough for large corporations.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i aint running 1 of those, tho, lol
verisimilitude: I'm joking about low standards.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: when undiscerning clientele -- sadly only half-joke, folx accept idiocy that their grandfathers would have never conceived of as 'business as usual'
asciilifeform: for instance, asciilifeform recently made a 5fig $ purchase via www, and it silently unhappened; call to vendor revealed 'oops, db glitch, these happen all the time now'
verisimilitude: What's also disconcerting is when a man realizes his grandfather is just repeating old memes without knowing this.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-17 13:53:14 asciilifeform: 'properly socialized' (as they like to call themselves) people live under a cruel curse, they mindlessly play back taped behaviours copied from one another (and handed down from 'above') and then wonder why 'live under a curse', 'so much effort but achieve 0'
verisimilitude: I prefer to think my tape is custom.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: only way to find out is to see whether result of the tape is also custom.
asciilifeform: typically takes a while tho.
verisimilitude: The deeply unusual have the benefit of seeing the oddities of normal people, at least in some cases.
verisimilitude: The end of line 232 has an improper </p> tag.
asciilifeform: where the hell even is ln 232.
verisimilitude: This is the HTML.
asciilifeform: 1 day, after the war, i'ma fix, lol
asciilifeform: ... or not. life is short, verisimilitude .
verisimilitude: Life is too short for good things and too long for bad things.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-08 16:09:13 verisimilitude: I was told ``Life is too short to hate.''; I responded ``It's too long not too.''.
asciilifeform will bbl.
thimbronion: I will set up an ircd. May take a bit of time.
signpost: life is certainly too short for html validity autism
thimbronion: As I mentioned on fleanode, I will stand up an ircd.
signpost: asciilifeform: just built an ircd-ratbox 3.0.10 on standard-issue dulap, no problems
signpost: will let y'all know later how peering more than one together goes
signpost went to this one because efnet apparently uses, btw
asciilifeform: signpost: a++ !
signpost: needed no special deps btw
asciilifeform: thimbronion: btw you don't need to repeat, necessarily, lines, log readers will see items said in either
asciilifeform: signpost: pretty surprising, tbh erry irctron i came across was either a massive deps hog or barebones to the point of 'i could write this in a day, but it won't even peer b/w machines..'
asciilifeform: ( among the latter, best i found was this item, a looong while back. it actually runs. missing a great many pieces, tho)
signpost: yep, that stood out to me, and also that it's been used to run an "adult" net
asciilifeform: signpost: 'unrealircd' was supposedly popular, i remembered it from earlier times, but actually setting it up was a 1st class bitch, and it seems to force sslism in 'over 9000' places, and overall maximally byzantine config
asciilifeform: ^ the item we're presently talking into
asciilifeform: thimbronion: (if you did not already know) -- in practice, to make a net, seems to require errybody to use same breed of ircd.
thimbronion: asciilifeform: didn't know, but was just going to used what y'all were going to use anyway.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: this q is still up in the air. i picked moar or less at random for the pilot box, simply to have where to continue conversation when fleanode finally gives up the ghost for good.
asciilifeform: e.g. the discussion w/ signpost re 'which ircd' would , i expect, be considerably more time-consuming over www comments.
asciilifeform: observe, folx, that no one had to retreat to 'platforms', or libertardera, etc.
asciilifeform: didn't skip a beat, because in fact using the net as if yr were 1989 'isn't actually rocket surgery', it is still entirely doable.
signpost: doable and far more pleasant.
thimbronion: Oh wat? You're not moving to Slack?
asciilifeform: thimbronion: lulzy that you mention it, i have commercial clients who live in it. thing eats coupla GB!!
thimbronion: Hard to get away from it.
asciilifeform: at one co., chairman in fact threatens to resurrect irc.
asciilifeform: 'was good enuff in 1995 to do 100% of biz in' etc
signpost: blows my mind the so-called valuable trade secrets / security credentials / etc that people hand to slack et al willingly
asciilifeform: signpost: to google, to microshit, it's rather like the old fiction with the catholic confession
asciilifeform: 'they wouldn't, would they' etc
asciilifeform: ( spoiler : when $bits are connected w/ 9-10fig$ operation -- they 'would' and in fact do )
thimbronion: Their apps run on amzn so why not?
signpost: see also : what traffic cone?
asciilifeform: apparently even usg.cia on lulazon nao. (tho afaik notyet on same iron as commoners)
asciilifeform: in '17 was epic wank re whether microshit or lulazon would get the contract.
asciilifeform: in re security of a ~public~ chat, however, asciilifeform's pov is that it ought to suffice to keep outsiders from actually obstructing the net, but no more.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-16 10:23:16 asciilifeform: the authenticity and privacy 'promises' of whatever irc net are an illusion, and what better way to remind people of it than by replacing all auth with a toy lock w/ plastic key.
asciilifeform: for actual crypto/authentication, one oughta be using external softs.
asciilifeform: and aside from this, errything oughta be sufficiently loose as to remind people at all times that they are doing the equiv. of shouting between ships in the open sea.
asciilifeform: anyone could be anyone else, and any message can be heard by absolutely anyone, incl. at any point in future.
signpost: yep, IRC's a public commons, nothing private about it, and "channels" are so much masking tape boxes on the floor
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-17#1039737 << btw i was wundering whether even makes sense to have the pretense of 'channels' on dulapnet.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-06-17 18:52:15 signpost: yep, IRC's a public commons, nothing private about it, and "channels" are so much masking tape boxes on the floor
asciilifeform: possibly oughta simply have #dulapnet.
asciilifeform: (or similar.)
asciilifeform: realistically there were never, even in heyday of mpism, enuff people simult. to justify separate doors.
asciilifeform: ... i'm reminded of an ancient sovok joke, where crew of a plane gets stranded each on separate island, and the american d00d when rescued is found to have built a 'whites' and 'coloureds' mess hall on his etc
signpost sees no use for separate channels
asciilifeform: signpost: i can ~maybe~ picture having one for unauthed guests, and another for actual people. that's more or less it
signpost: alrighty, I've got two of these things peered, was easy
signpost: will clean up configs tomorrow and share here
asciilifeform: signpost: that was fast! a++
lobbes: !z uptime
zzz999: lobbes: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 0m
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-16 13:46:57 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-16#1039439 << i had to commit this kludge warcrime to get the bot to talk to 'unreal irc'.
asciilifeform: (kludge is subj. to change as we potentially change out irctrons for a cleaner one)
asciilifeform: it is imho interesting that the rfc spec aint enuff to make any 2 irctrons actually behave identically for the purpose of a dead-simple bot.
lobbes: asciilifeform: ahh nifty. I was wondering about that earlier, so I'll give it a look
asciilifeform: lobbes: i'ma publish a proper patch later on when we settle on choice of irctron
asciilifeform: lobbes: for the current one, the hack depicted above worx and is in use in dulapbot.
asciilifeform currently expecting to decamp from fleanode for good when 1) there are 2+ boxes in dulapnet 2) all isp subscribers have made an appearance there
asciilifeform: ... or when fleanode is finally buried; which ever of these comes 1st.
lobbes: I've never looked into running an ircd, but possibly that may be something I could host on one of my servers
asciilifeform: lobbes: given how many of us there are, it's arguably the least expensive net service imaginable
asciilifeform: even a rk could readily host coupla thou. irc users, not even speaking of us.
asciilifeform: (there are special cases, e.g. folx passing warez via irc kludges, ddos magnets, etc. but generally avoidable.)