gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-07#1038380 << likewise, support for the country's strong anti-harassment system (restraining orders, etc.) is bi-partisan.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-07 16:08:22 verisimilitude: Even on supposedly divisive topics, it's just middling; few US politicians still advocate against abortion, homosexuals, trannies, and soon to add mutilating children in new ways and pedophilia.
gregorynyssa: even though this system is just thirty years old.
gregorynyssa: nor is reform of institutional psychology/psychiatry a priority for either side.
gregorynyssa: I don't know who said the quote "politics is downstream from culture" but it is a very crucial observation.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: elite 100% supports plebecontrol systems -- mega-surprise?
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
btcinfobot: Current BTC price in USD: $31679.24
asciilifeform: ^ cheap!11111 ^
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 17 nodes...
watchglass: 84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=686810
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.119s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=686810
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.113s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=686810
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.113s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=686810
watchglass: 108.31.170.100:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.098s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=686810 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.288s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=686205
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.187s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=686810
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.210s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=686810
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.260s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=686797
watchglass: 185.85.38.54:8333 : (tlapnet-38-54.cust.tlapnet.cz) Alive: (0.229s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=686805
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.121s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=686810 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
watchglass: 24.28.108.235:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) (Operator: trinque)
trinque: not enough reddit butt-tears yet. let's see $15k
trinque jingles sack, wants moar
asciilifeform recalls 'good old days' of july '20, where ~3k
asciilifeform: trinque: i admit, wonder what it'd take (what sort of event..) to convert the 'carousel' to some other kind of motion.
asciilifeform: trinque: and also admit, not convinced that redditus sum to any detectable gravitational pull
trinque: sure, isn't just reddit gambling with high leverage, but I don't know where the "professional" gamblers go to wail.
trinque: re: carousel, am I imagining things, or did satoshi predict bubbles between halvings?
asciilifeform: trinque: iirc never said anyffin re subj
trinque wonders where the fuq he got that notion.
trinque: anyhow, miners compete and difficulty increases, narrowing margin on mining.
trinque: supposing miners are pretty close to break-even when a halving occurs, seems like that'd put more upward pressure on asks.
trinque: kinda curious to snag somebody's order-book data and dig into this.
trinque: supposing this starts a bull run, other buyers pile in with high margin longs. when the capacity for these newly-convinced buyers to buy is expended, many of them are stuck at the top holding their dicks, and the capitulation is exacerbated by both margin calls and margin shorts going the other way.
trinque hypothesizes that this is entirely printed-money dynamics, and one wouldn't see sound-money dynamics without exchanges with cryptographic proof of the underlying assets.
asciilifeform: trinque: entirely, imho, possible that simply existence of printolade-usd fully accounts for the visible givens
asciilifeform: e.g. musk & co. pick up freshly printed 1e8 usd (at 0%) ; pump up btc; dump, induce panic, buy cheap; repump, sell dear; 'goto 10'
asciilifeform: ( see also )
snsabot: Logged on 2021-04-23 13:08:03 asciilifeform: a major moving part behind the price swings are the people who run this heat engine -- 1) spread fud re bitcoin 2) 'buy the dip' 3) drum up enthusiasm among morons 4) sell dear 5) goto 1, nao w/ moar coin, extracted from morons on both strokes of the engine piston
asciilifeform: re: miners, however -- afaik their fortunes/misfortunes have 0 detectable effect on exch rates -- for the simple reason that the item being traded consists almost entirely of paper-btc
asciilifeform full aware of various popular voodoo on the subj, but regards it as exactly that
asciilifeform: *fully
asciilifeform: trinque: in the old days, when threads re: 'trb-i', asciilifeform contemplated whether possible, in principle, for there to be a mining algo which disincentivized paperization.
asciilifeform: ( concluded that 'possible', but requires 'squared circle' ;
snsabot: (trilema) 2017-03-01 mircea_popescu: just payments. no payers. fuck usg.
asciilifeform: ... i.e. monetary mass -- knowable but individual unspent balances -- somehow! -- not.
snsabot: (trilema) 2017-03-01 asciilifeform: can third party calculate the monetary mass ?
asciilifeform: given this, suppose that e.g. 30% of block reward went to ~random~ previously-seen addr.
asciilifeform: this way, genuinely-held (i.e. control of privkey) coins 'collect interest'. but deniably, so if you park yours w/ a 3rd party, it can insist 'we got 0'.
asciilifeform: other setups with same effect may be possible.
asciilifeform: will emphasize -- it aint enuff for 'genuinely held btc is a lottery ticker erry 10min'. must be not only random, but deniable, otherwise can be paperized over quite effectively (i.e. an equilibrium will form where paper holders will have reason to expect a certain %gain of their goxbalance)
asciilifeform: *ticket
asciilifeform: whole idea could very well be a perpetuum mobile -- as the penalty from paperization would have to somehow reliably exceed the ev of leverageism.
asciilifeform: ... if it WERE possible, however, then such a 'trb-i' could easily be to btc what btc is to usd; and for exactly same reasons
asciilifeform: (before anyone mentions the ethertards -- they aint actually doing this; merely fraudulently, as usual, pretending to)
verisimilitude: Isn't Monero half of this idea?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: usg.honeypot take on half of the idea. see logs, too many lulz to cite compactly.
verisimilitude: On that note, I've noticed popular media is avoiding mentioning Bitcoin.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: plenty of mention, 'ohnoez, crashed, cry' ~weekly
asciilifeform: for ~11y nao.
verisimilitude: From one show I saw, discussing payment: ``Part in Ethereum, part in Zcash, and part in my proprietary coin.''
shinohai: verisimilitude: Nearly every "nyooz" outlet on tube this morning running with "Oh noes, FBI hacked Bitcoin!"
verisimilitude: The show was stupid.
asciilifeform: 'i was eating from dumpster, the rat carcasses tasted terrible'
verisimilitude: I was asked today if the WWW had been brought down.
asciilifeform: what were you doing watching, verisimilitude , that show
verisimilitude: Someone else was and I was passing by.
asciilifeform: lolk
verisimilitude: I'm not joking.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: if you're unaware -- there's a ~bottomless pit of this garbage.
asciilifeform: permeates the 'mainstream' space. and has, for decade+ nao.
verisimilitude: It was that new ``Law & Order'' show, now with more negroes and homosexuals.
asciilifeform: 'ceo of bitcoin arrested!' (famous headline on the day of gox implosion)
verisimilitude: I have no issues quoting television shows I've seen once, a decade ago, so I generally avoid watching it at all, because it will be difficult to forget.
asciilifeform: shinohai: if these didn't exist 'we'd have to invent'em'
shinohai: ^-^
verisimilitude: I read some filth a ways back seriously discussing how Disney could stop Bitcoin.
asciilifeform: upstack -- imho bitcoin 'went only half-way' -- we don't know what a 100% debasement-proof currency would look like; would need to be paperization-resistant, not merely publicly-ledgered and deterministically-inflating.
verisimilitude: It was cited by more recent filth.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: again, there's a ~bottomless pit of these. y'know, as with other clickbait/tabloid themes. 'how you hairbrush is killing you.' '47 dirty tricks your dentist doesn't want you to know.' etc
verisimilitude: Yes.
asciilifeform: life imho is too short to read these.
verisimilitude: This reminds me of something.
verisimilitude: I was told ``Life is too short to hate.''; I responded ``It's too long not too.''.
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-08#1038433 << yes, not only does mining look like a "bug", but also the public ledger, sadly.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-08 15:33:32 asciilifeform: ... i.e. monetary mass -- knowable but individual unspent balances -- somehow! -- not.
trinque: look how useful the latter has apparently become to the state.
trinque: difficult to imagine what kind of incentive structure could be devised to encourage holding of own keys which *couldn't* be faked by a Coinbase
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-08#1038467 << perhaps the missing piece of infrastructure is, simply, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-08#1038385
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-08 16:06:59 asciilifeform: upstack -- imho bitcoin 'went only half-way' -- we don't know what a 100% debasement-proof currency would look like; would need to be paperization-resistant, not merely publicly-ledgered and deterministically-inflating.
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-08 09:15:12 gregorynyssa: I don't know who said the quote "politics is downstream from culture" but it is a very crucial observation.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-08#1038474 << w/out public proof of non-printability, it's a fiatola. i.e. a zwhateverthefuckcoin-style scam where some fuckwad prints and prints and herd of morons pretends it aint happening
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-08 17:13:27 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-08#1038433 << yes, not only does mining look like a "bug", but also the public ledger, sadly.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-08#1038476 << no less than the prev. time we had this thread -- asciilifeform knows 0 evidence that this notion is grounded in anything other than disinfo. (yes, they'd luvv for erryone to believe that 'btc is entirely transparent to usg', esp. if this 'erryone' goes en masse to the 'anon'scamcoins where above )
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-08 17:13:40 trinque: look how useful the latter has apparently become to the state.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-08#1038477 << potentially, >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-06-08#1038436 .
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-08 17:18:01 trinque: difficult to imagine what kind of incentive structure could be devised to encourage holding of own keys which *couldn't* be faked by a Coinbase
snsabot: Logged on 2021-06-08 15:35:51 asciilifeform: this way, genuinely-held (i.e. control of privkey) coins 'collect interest'. but deniably, so if you park yours w/ a 3rd party, it can insist 'we got 0'.
asciilifeform: ... to nitpick -- hypothetical objective aint 'cannot be faked' ; but rather 'attempting to fake it aint +ev'
asciilifeform: (ANYTHING can be faked, if at arbitrary expense, with arbitrarily stupid mark)