asciilifeform: ( for ref -- 'nqb' in last test ate the 1st 500k blox, correctly recomputed their tx hashes; then subjected it to random bit-flippage, correctly barfed in each test )
mircea_popescu: moreover, THIS is what a language.io stdlib should even fucking be in the first place.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw i've found that the ada standard serialization, with the streams, does in fact work as specified. however i have not used in battlefield, remains to be properly exercised.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-23 06:31 mircea_popescu: slowly but surely a republican ada style manual is shaping up (and through the exact http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865304 process, at that!)
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 17:38 mircea_popescu: anyway, absent this logical rule, we'll do what, add "wordwrap(magicnumber" in the unloved v style manual ?
diana_coman: yes, that's what I had in mind; and I think it does solve the problem because it effectively fixes the size, yes
mircea_popescu: because whatever is there extra is padding. so instead of returning 6 correct records and discarding 2 records' worth of padding, you return 8 records, and let the application asking for records figure out that "6" means it needn't process 7 and 8
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's perfectly permissible to define, e.g., subtype foo 1 .. 40 of a 2**5 modular type that lives in 5bits; and catch the out-of-range eggog when reading it
diana_coman: if it is described as a variable length i.e. n* ... then it's variable, what can I do
diana_coman: but the issue was re what follows
diana_coman: that in itself doesn't solve the issue
mircea_popescu: the idea was to define n as a ada-style var, "from 1 to 19"
mircea_popescu: otoh i don't really want all the structure at one side of message for crypto-shamanistic considerations.
diana_coman: uhm, maybe I don't get what you mean then
diana_coman: so that the "not meaningful" is essentially padding
mircea_popescu: or does this just move the problem really ?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the reason n is there is to tell you how much data is useful. what if you fixed n to max at depack size, and then delivered n=max records to application, and it is ITS job to discard the extras ?
diana_coman: basically the only way is that: put always max and just write somewhere how much of that is actually meaningful
diana_coman: for the other I really don't see how exactly to have at the same time flexible size (specifying n and then n* IS flexible size) AND record'write
diana_coman: for one thing the solution as implemented is perfectly fine; sure, not a one-line record'write or something like that but not a terrible thing either
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 14:07 mircea_popescu: the basic, and really only, rule of hermeneutics is : that then you've understood a text when, far from its shortcomings appearing inexplicable errors, they become the actual pillars upon which the damned thing is constructed, and what originally seemed to you sensible and structural takes its true place as accidental.
mircea_popescu: then a) ada should allocate this as a 4 bit value and b) ada allocating space for 15 records is entirely fine anyway. with a being a very minor point but b being a major point because we've reoriented ourselves to where features of the language are indistinct rather than inconvenient. this is very much the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505418 thing.
diana_coman: at implementation time that is how I define the counter for keyset for instance
diana_coman: I'm not sure what would the bitwise thing buy exactly?
mircea_popescu is not at all adverse to permitting ada metasyntactic considerations leak into the protocol. there's no rule specwork gotta happen in meta-c.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-10 16:43 mircea_popescu: diana_coman is the structure actually problematic ?
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870616 - I don't think the structure in itself is problematic; I think it's simply the serialize-in-one-go that doesn't mix well with any flexibility at all
mircea_popescu: diana_coman would it be smart if i defined the count types narrowly ? ie, bitwise ?
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870620 -nitpick away! I actually DID consider that and I decided it's not really fitting because think of it: if I make it enumeration that *also* means you can actually go succ and prev which however isn't something that makes sense for message types; it's not like they are an actual ordered thing
BingoBoingo: Could be two years and their new governor Gavin decides no water for anyone
mircea_popescu: in another decade, "find out which celebrity hasn't had running water this week"
mircea_popescu: because it's totally "normal" for your fucking house to burn, dumb piggy, and it's "an event" which "happens", and there's no such thing as agency in zeklands and so on.
asciilifeform: ( i backported this to my wp, incidentally , so far the only mpwp item i did this for )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can define hooks for replacement. i suspect this might be a theme thing. mine replaces gpg code with fixed format... apparently her theme replaces :)
asciilifeform: i think there's a html inbandism booby in there ( but possibly only in graphic browser ? )
asciilifeform: also how come you need procedure Cast_LE( LE: in out Raw_Types.Octets ) ? i thought the algo was 'if message invalid, flip endianism in whole thing and re-eval before discard'
asciilifeform: diana_coman: btw the LSB/MSB/LMSB thing can be made slightly clearer / less-ctronic by actually making'em into 1-bit members of the record; gnat will do The Right Thing re padding
mircea_popescu: diana_coman is the structure actually problematic ?
asciilifeform: this kinda thing can be frustrating, but imho it helps to remember that ada is ~deliberately~ 'not a haskell', it does not try to 'think for you', but rather leans to 'must be obvious to reader what proggy does'
asciilifeform: the parametrized record thing i found to be helpful when eating/shitting gnarly heathen datastructures, in nqb in particular (the block/tx representations) but even there i had to do some explicit serialization
asciilifeform: diana_coman: imho mircea_popescu's protocol is simple enuff , however, that it doesn't make a gigantic difference that you walk the records explicitly, in re complexity of proggy
asciilifeform: tation is exactly as one expects, but if you want the size params to live inside the record and appear in the raw bitz, you gotta make'em members
asciilifeform: diana_coman: ' I admit I am still not 100% sure of the actual, exact representation of such a record containing itself parametrized records since my understanding is that Ada will allocated maximum space (i.e. space to fit potentially the largest structure) ' >> i dug into this when baked 'nqb'. what it does is exactly this, recursively ( for ~each~ subrecord, allocates the maximum possible size ; ditto any subrecords. ) the represen
asciilifeform: in other noose, yet-another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869662 found : 108.170.1.134
Mocky: took the bike out for a spin. had to bundle up, bit of cold shock to my system
Mocky: another 9 hours of sleep. now I feel like I'm back to life
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 9 hours and 4 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> didja ever get chance to unearth the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862616 item ?
mircea_popescu: ill tell you this tho -- only AFTER this is made as thin as it gets are we significantly more advanced on the path towards replacing php
mircea_popescu: actually, this is the correct direction -- should be collapsed into as few files as necessary (prolly three, seeing how it uses the apache access model to limit admin/users, so you'd have an admin and a public dir), and then cut from that.
BingoBoingo: Can only ada things up in steps, and there's other moving parts underneath www-blogthing
mircea_popescu: in the present situation i'd settle for a three-file 5k loc mp-wp reduction from the current imensity.
mircea_popescu: there may be some reason and room for "ye olde instruments" ; but srsly now, webotrons should utterly not be it.
asciilifeform: there is a reason why asciilifeform's lan switch loox like a hammock.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interestingly pretty much all graphics processing coad is 'swiss cheese', evidently nobody ever heard of bounds checking when writing these, lol
mircea_popescu: and the box it sits on can only scp into webtron ? (if so, it should be ON webtron ; if not so... that's your hole right there. etc)
mircea_popescu: srsly now, way the fuck better to have that on a webserver.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at this juncture, trying to automate the automation. going slowly.
mircea_popescu: what do you even scale them with ?
mircea_popescu: and i'd 1000% rather have php machine do image manipulation than whatever local machine with scp authority, i'll tell you that.
asciilifeform: evidently mircea_popescu not yet automated errything tho. hence the uploads thread i was responding to.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something wrong with the perlisms -- unportable ; therefore unstandard[izable] etc.
mircea_popescu: trilema inline pics are, i find by looking, either 560 or whatever the fuck http://trilema.com/2018/the-lolz-inflation-continues-unabated/ is
asciilifeform: i've found that the less 'modern' htmlism/css etc is used, the moar likely it is to display properly errywhere
mircea_popescu: 700 is no viewport i ever heard of. the choices are 640, 1024 and 1280, practically.
asciilifeform: was referring to the 'post body' horiz band strictly
mircea_popescu: except 640 px with toolbars (which are needed, long discussion i won't get into, but trilema isn't laid out the way it is because that's what came out of FG), even if you (stupidly) use just one, leaves 400px wide pix. that's a stamp.
asciilifeform: and yes i hand-write html on my site ( with the exception of the code formatter thingie )
mircea_popescu: if you want them left-alligned as opposed to centered, do you spew the div code by hand ? do you remember what it is, too ? do you keep it somewhere (and then remember where that is) ?
mircea_popescu: how big should the pics be ? if you scale them by hand, what do you do, use a byte of memory to save this ?
asciilifeform: will accept the 'he drinks milk straight from sheep' criticism, if must
mircea_popescu: it eminently IS blogotron's job to do such, because blogotron knows and you shouldn't care what the constraints are.
asciilifeform: lol i dun hate mp's wp of anyffing of the kind
mircea_popescu: this "oh, i won't play eulora" "oh, i won't use mp-wp" is starting to smack of specialsnowflakeism already. you realise this, dildos fuck your holes exactly as well as anyone else's, they're holes, the hole pre-exists your personal notion of the self.
mircea_popescu: kinda the whole fucking point of having it is so 500 alfs mockys etc don't have to all step on the same rakes on their own time individually.
mircea_popescu: the thing is yet again "at my sheep farm we don't drink milk from special vessels". sure. nor do you have to. civilisation however is built out of pots and pans.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mp-wp does a bunch of useful things, such as adnotating the img tags, resizing the image to your pre-set sizes so you never have to worry about formatting, balancing them out in directories etc etc.
asciilifeform: hanbot et al : fwiw i've never 1nce used wp uploader, ever since booting up the current ver of my www in '07 i've used scp via 'midnight commander' for all file upload, worx great, it's just as if the thing were on my local fs
mircea_popescu: there really is ~0 reason to have something like mp-wp in multiple DIRECTORIES chockfulla files.
mircea_popescu: hanbot well, keep good notes, maybe unroll the whole monstrosity into a single file eventually.
hanbot: is just stuffed with calls to other files. atm my goosechase sits in wp-admin/includes/media.php, wherein the suspected controlling function media_upload_form lives, consists of multiple other functions not defined in this file. i enjoy trying to sort it out but it's indeed at a snail's pace.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-15 04:19 mircea_popescu: hanbot / everyone : speaking of patches for mp-wp, here's something i'd dearly love : a MASS uploader. so you don't have to upload files one by one in the webinterface.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-31 23:16 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-31#1867924 << ikr, multi-upload has been on the wishlist for mp-wp ever since... hey hanbot how long's it been now ?
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-31#1868072 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-15#1799520 fucking april. it's a travesty largely fueled by my noobishness. i've had a multi-upload form and script pair for months, been looking under pebbles in the quarry that is wp's upload process for a way to connect the dots. most recently i've been trying to map out on paper what seems to me the insane tangle of files involved in uploading --every damned file
mircea_popescu: end not to notice anything. For now, they do not consider our actions as presenting a future danger to them.
But, if the time comes that our people's life in Eretz Yisrael will develop to a point where we are taking their place, either slightly or significantly, the natives are not going to just step aside so easily."
mircea_popescu: ening around them. But this is a grave mistake. The Arab, like all the Semites, is sharp minded and shrewd. All the townships of Syria and Eretz Yisrael are full of Arab merchants who know how to exploit the masses and keep track of everyone with whom they deal the same as in Europe. The Arabs, especially the urban elite, see and understand what we are doing and what we wish to do on the land, but they keep quiet and pret
mircea_popescu: good for planting remain uncultivated and that's because the Arabs do not like working too much in the present for a distant future. Therefore, it is very difficult to find good land for cattle. And not only peasants, but also rich landowners, are not selling good land so easily...We who live abroad are accustomed to believing that the Arabs are all wild desert people who, like donkeys, neither see nor understand what is happ
mircea_popescu: in otherr documentary lulz, "We who live abroad are accustomed to believe that almost all Eretz Yisrael is now uninhabited desert and whoever wishes can buy land there as he pleases. But this is not true. It is very difficult to find in the land [ha'aretz] cultivated fields that are not used for planting. Only those sand fields or stone mountains that would require the investment of hard labour and great expense to make them
BingoBoingo: When the time comes
BingoBoingo: They are already kinda moving in that direction
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: will come in handy when they switch from yakyak to gladiatorial ring, i suppose
BingoBoingo: Their men won't look credible, and age will catch up to Michelle Obama's arms
BingoBoingo: If that guy runs in 2024, who can the Democrats credibly put against him on a debate stage?
BingoBoingo: And just for asciilifeform: The impact of small differences on Trump's freedom to act as exemplified by Jeff Session's acting replacement "Incredibly Swole Guy" - https://archive.is/oTq9X
BingoBoingo: And the wedding cake folk won
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, wedding cake doesn't touch health in the way applying hot wax to delicate skin does.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: recall the infamous wedding cake thing
Mocky: slept another 7. not feeling fully normal, but at least not exhausted anymore
BingoBoingo: How goes the Odinsleep Mocky?
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/11/womens-estheticians-being-targeted-in-canadian-human-rights-tribunals/ << Qntra - Women's Estheticians Being Targeted In Canadian Human Rights Tribunals
mod6: <+BingoBoingo> In other updates: The Birthday card mailed in February has been recieved! << lol
asciilifeform: ( and if it requires baking a board, process takes coupla months anyway, so why not get the ball rolling )
asciilifeform: phf: i prolly won't get a chance to actually put it to use in near term, hands pretty full with ffa; but would like to have it. if it's there to be had.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 02:44 phf: asciilifeform: i actually forgot! i'm swamped right now, but can you remind me again in about two weeks, i have a thing for you from the dig that will help with the little piece of silicon you have
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf didja ever get chance to unearth the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862616 item ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-15 02:44 phf: asciilifeform: i actually forgot! i'm swamped right now, but can you remind me again in about two weeks, i have a thing for you from the dig that will help with the little piece of silicon you have
asciilifeform: !Q phf didja ever get chance to unearth the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862616 item ?
asciilifeform: ( i half-expected that corlan in '90s would have discovered the non-pointeristic/non-heapistic style asciilifeform works in today -- but apparently nodice )
asciilifeform: in other olds, http://dan.corlan.net/software/niliada.ada << the 'niliada' corlan was speaking of.
BingoBoingo: Then again in this land where you have to register to import packaged goods, it is in a traditional US style paper envelope as opposed to a clear plastic "sobre" the Uruguayos insist on using
BingoBoingo: And then 8 months later someone probably asked to throw out the obstacle blocking the walkway only for mail to be discovered
BingoBoingo: I suspect it's more of a cultural thing. Someone set the basket of letters in not exactly the right spot. Being ever so off to the side it was studiously ignored because civil servants here "work to rules" deviating from the rules only when their incompetence intervenes.
asciilifeform: wonder if something like this, was the culprit
BingoBoingo: It probably sat in a pile and the pile was only recently acknowledged
BingoBoingo: What happened between the USPS postmark and the October 30th Correo Uruguayo stamp is a mystery
asciilifeform: ( rsa on z80, 6502, etc. is ~nonstarter, even if one 'banks' the address lines to give enuff mem, the 8bit buggers lack a multiplier, so you get 'egyptian' speed )
asciilifeform: it's prolly the oldest chip, not counting 'heavies' like vax, that can rsa on sumthing like human timescale.
asciilifeform tried to source 68k back in the original draft cardanoism days. found that the only source, aside from vintage collectors, is some goldentoilet co that makes spare parts for usg rockets
diana_coman: my understanding of the "smart phone" label was in the vein of "smarter than user" so rather accurate, yes
mircea_popescu: nobody with the "smart"phones ever does, which is i guess the living proof of why "smart" phones are for dumb people and the z80 was smart even tho it didn't LABEL ITSELF SUCH
mircea_popescu: hey, everyonre with the z80s was trying to build cool shit.
asciilifeform: they remind me of old man leonardo and his chopper
asciilifeform: 'A long time ago, in the late eighties, I myself tried to develop such a system, on a home-made 68K with a cp/m executive (the file system was on a second, z80 processor, that had a floppy drive). It's name was 'li' meaning a half lisp (but it had a simple, non-optimizing JIT compiler that directly generated 68K code)...' << this is at least the 3rd fella i've corresponded with who 'i tried to build lispm in '80s out of 68k'
mircea_popescu: Mocky the third ? that's a sad loss to humanilulz!
diana_coman: asciilifeform, it seems to me the guy is Bucharest-based, no?
diana_coman: I suppose the " Anyway, e-mail is the communication tool that I am most comfortable with." might be quite common for thinking people that aren't all that young anymore either
asciilifeform: but i suspect asciilifeform lives under a curse, nobody but the redditards ever deign to show
asciilifeform: though so, hence the envelope label.
mircea_popescu: thanks for the markup lol. otherwise yes, pastes go into pgptron, wtf it's broken all that.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: living off da fat O'da << d00d oughta consider new career, of beggar an' petty thief in e.g. calcutta. at least there could steal actual food, and not 'protein bar'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: These were some pretty atypical jews. Lived a 15 minute drive from town in house with normal town sized yard surrounded by farm on all sides
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in the hard luck files: https://archive.is/o0tiw Dude had his thing living off da fat O'da land. Then he hitchhiked in a cop car.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: interesting; it was my understanding that the j00z frown on I,II,IIIism
BingoBoingo: III made it to college, the Hillel house took him in and now III R economist
BingoBoingo: Well, II was a train conductor and him and his wife were about as 70's white trash stereotype as could be in the 1990's
diana_coman: that sounds like the "we can haz dinastyyy 2"
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I'd suspect the Ioan is simply because of church slavonic, yes
asciilifeform: also lulzily, some of the groups in usa have this custom, but they also affix numbers, e.g. i knew a few folx who 'III', and at least 1 fella who 'IV'
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, hm, I knew also the approach odd/even generations i.e. same name as grandfather rather than father; onth closer home it was meant to be more like same name as godfather but whatevers
asciilifeform: ( possibly result of 'acute orthodoxy of the central nervous system'(tm) ? )
a111: Logged on 2016-08-03 15:40 phf: the whole font changes meaning take two is coming from the japanese. they were actively promoting this idea back during early unicode standardization days, where there was a strong drive to include every idiosyncratic version of kanji in the standard, because "that's how my family writes it in our last name".
mircea_popescu: before i forget : re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-03#1513931 this item can be exemplared in ro, also. sane clans used the same name for the firstborn, my father was mircea like my grandfather ; but some used vocalic alternation for incomprehensible reason, so the above linked guy's son wasn't ion but "ioan". which is a thoroughly imaginary halph diphtong nonsense ~specifically created for the purpose~. there's no such fucki
asciilifeform: nfi. he showed up in the glue traps.
mircea_popescu: let's say i only know the well established clans of the 80s ; maybe this guy 1st gen intellectual ?
asciilifeform: i was almost at the point where 'it's 5 people and mircea_popescu knows'em all' lol
mircea_popescu: i realise the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-01#1868214 came as clear sky thunderbolt / supports the notion romania's like 5 people large... but still not all romanians know each other keks
mircea_popescu: Mocky it's mostly slander anyway, as it stands it does that "recalculating" less than 1% of the time.
Mocky: hard pills to swallow, but i'm going to have to choke down the php and the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865105 because I don't want to spend the time to bake the actually moving pieces
Mocky: no bloghack, lacks the normal actually useful things
mircea_popescu: say Mocky , does your bloghack support pingbacks ? such as eg http://trilema.com/2018/actual-anthropology-yet-another-minor-function-of-the-functioning-harem/#selection-67.45-71.1 ?
Mocky: of course 'smart toasting' was the opposite of smart
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870186 >> I had a toaster with cancel button a few years ago was just this. Once you add the 'feature' of smart toasting whereby turning the knob after toasting has started has no effect and then once you further add the feature that the lift handle is mechanically locked down and can't be lifted during the cycle, then yes, once you accept those things you then 'need' the red button
Mocky: just waking up now from 7 hour nap. it's mid morning back in qatar, where's the sun? :D
Mocky: my flight left at 1am local time and I wasn't able to sleep on either flight. was up for 42 hours
deedbot: http://thewhet.net/2018/11/ingenohl-the-anti-chucker/ << The Whet - Ingenohl, the Anti-Chucker
a111: Logged on 2017-04-12 22:11 mircea_popescu: on the long term this pressure kills them as sure as sugar.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-12#1642735 << relatedly, to add anecdotal evidence to this thread I can confirm: do not try and tempt fate by leaving these suckers in.. it feels like a vice-grip has been slowly tightening on my skull for the last few weeks..
lobbes: in other news: I'm going to be getting all 4 of my wisdom teeth yanked out tomorrow. While I'll be near my terminal, I may be out of commission for a few days. I'll be following the logs as usual (assuming I'm not knocked out from pain meds)
lobbes: In other words, order history (along with all top bids, etc.) is preserved whether you !Xcancel or just let the auction run its course.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-08 15:51 mod6: i can see that arg, asciilifeform. lobbes are you opposed to an !Xclose <auction_number> : which would accept the current highest bid? mircea_popescu, et. al. is this a good idea?
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870228 << the way !Xcancel works right now 'behind the scenes' is that it inserts the <auction_number> into the "closed" table. This isn't much different than when an auction "resolves" normally (<auction_number> also inserted into same table), the only difference is that the bot doesn't "announce" a winner when !Xcancel is used
BingoBoingo: One of the people with an oddly Dutch appearing name
mircea_popescu: not the kind that can actually respond to salutations tho. ("too much pressure").
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as close as practicable, yes, bearing in mind however they use excel scripts.
mircea_popescu: the way of the web is "have people talk into the bag", tv minds tryna hard to re-create tv out of the information superhighway truck.
mircea_popescu: i'd be surprised if, over the entirety of conde nast "portofolio", there's a man-day per day of actual attention available. http://trilema.com/2015/okcupidcom-the-dating-site/#selection-45.141-45.160 is in no different shape, and none of the smaller spamfarms differ in any sense.
asciilifeform was reading recent http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com , and ran into the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-27#1866726 item; curious, did anybody answer these ?
bvt: asciilifeform: thanks. radix-64 (gpg ascii armor) is pretty similar to the RFC base64, so changes to the code will be minimal.
asciilifeform: bvt: the base64 thing will come in very handy for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-01#1868643 item
a111: Logged on 2018-11-08 17:40 asciilifeform: btw, diana_coman were you able in the end to make sense of the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2675 proof ? ( mircea_popescu's s.mg broadcast implies that yes -- but thought i oughta ask conceretely )
bvt: hello, i have finally genesised the ada base64 lib: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/11/base64-genesis/
BingoBoingo: And in breaking news, Ruth Bader Ginsburg's ribs. She's on the wrong side of 85... Trump is probably getting a third Supreme Court nominee soon.
asciilifeform: btw, diana_coman were you able in the end to make sense of the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2675 proof ? ( mircea_popescu's s.mg broadcast implies that yes -- but thought i oughta ask conceretely )
mod6: Any other objections to this? asciilifeform, BingoBoingo ?
mod6: We will be using the same price amount per BTC:
mod6: I thought we had it covered with the two previous auctions, but jurov thankfully noted that we'd have been short.
mod6: Yes, that's correct. I didn't put in the correct amount.
jurov: We checked our notes and it came out that exact amount needed for pizarro datacenter payment is $2934.06 USD. The auction was intended for this amount, not just "$2k". Am i right mod6 BingoBoingo?
mircea_popescu: things work themselves out.
asciilifeform: could be, i suppose, bigger headache , if auction were for the graf zeppelin, rather than some lunchmoney
a111: Logged on 2018-11-08 15:50 asciilifeform: imho letting auction carry on even tho the auctioned item already left the house , is playing with fire
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870226 << what's the fire, you'll be stuck with, in the worst case, two items ? you can use them.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm sorta used to the 'eek', having a daytime saecular work that happens 100% in sewer
diana_coman: quite! and unfortunately I'll still have the works in the sewer in parallel for quite a while
mircea_popescu: mod6 you can close it prematurely by convention, i guess. there's good reason not to have a dedicated button, however.
diana_coman: fwiw those past few days I had to get back to some C/CPP code and there was this funny moment where I read some code adding 2 vars of different types and my mind went instantly eeeek
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform many things are "partially reversible". phb hanging over table ends up with necktie pulled in. reversible up to the isadora duncan moment.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: so far the only place i've used it, is c glue
asciilifeform: type cast is the single most dangerous operation there is ( second only to pointerism, and notice how ada makes the latter extremely painful ) hence the thing forces you to 'measure 7 times, cut 1ce'
asciilifeform: when you do this kind of thing, you gotta make sure that the proggy behaves correctly regardless of what rubbish may have been put into the octet form that gets transformed to the record. ( possibly this is obvious, but imho bears restating )
diana_coman: I'll play a bit with those unchecked unions too though, I hadn't looked at them
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's safe (i.e. endianism-proof) if you actually nail down the layout of the record (see barnes re how)
diana_coman: in this particular case the unchecked conversion still makes more sense to me
diana_coman: I still can't quite see the reason to make a stream in order to write a known-size record to a known-size array of octets though
asciilifeform: there's exactly 2 ways to do it -- the above conversion mechanisms, or the stream (read nqb to see how) . cuz transmutation of data types is a specifically dangerous act, that is deliberately not made easy in ada
diana_coman: that's the thing: wherever I turned re serialization it kept pushing the streams, hence my earlier "it seems I have to use streams,eurgh"
asciilifeform: according to the 'rationale' document, serialization is ~the~ reason why streams are even a thing
asciilifeform: but as for the q of 'can haz this without any smell of c sulfur' , the answr is no, because entire concept is slightly antithetical to adaism, and so you gotta 'cheat' at least a little in order to permit it.
asciilifeform: i suppose the 3rd way would be to write simple serializer ( that uses System.Address and yourthing'Size ) to turn your record type into (and out of) the requisite # of octets, and compartmentalize all of the System.Address'ism in 1 module. i have something quite similar to this in my mmap lib.
diana_coman: hm, I kept thinking for some reason that there was a 3rd way (i.e. NOT streams and not unchecked) but I just did not see it; I'll have a look at the unchecked unions
asciilifeform: diana_coman: either this, or the 'unchecked conversion' you had earlier (given that you specify a fixed size for the record, you will always end up with the given number of octets, it has no failure mode)
diana_coman: or what, just unchecked on the whole thing?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, how can I serialize the record into an array of octets? I keep thinking there's something obvious that I just don't get
a111: Logged on 2018-10-16 13:56 diana_coman: at any rate when I get to the records I might come and whine loudly if I get stuck
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-16#1863219 -> whine! I get the record neat representation part in Ada (or so I think). Re serialization though my current understanding is that I *have to* use ...Streams; is this even correct?
mod6: i can see that arg, asciilifeform. lobbes are you opposed to an !Xclose <auction_number> : which would accept the current highest bid? mircea_popescu, et. al. is this a good idea?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, as long as one has replacement in case it's needed...; for the other part though, there is also the in-wot thing, not like "anyone can bid"
asciilifeform: imho letting auction carry on even tho the auctioned item already left the house , is playing with fire
diana_coman: re auction bot: the way this sort of thing worked in eulora is basically by agreement; afaik there is no untoast button (nor do I see how it would make sense really)
mod6: Not sure if cancel-toast would untoast the auction. I'd like there to be a record of the auction, so I'm fine to let it close by expiry.
mod6: asciilifeform: there is an !Xcancel, but not a close.
mod6: Also, please send me a btc addy to pay you at, will send the coins within 24 hours -- probably later today for sure.
mod6: If not, then jurov, please go ahead and send the wire to the DC ( you can use the same info from last time ). If you need the wire info again, please say so and I'll have BingoBoingo send it to you.
asciilifeform: cuz if it doesn't, the toast had better fully toast, or we're living in sin imho
asciilifeform: mod6: can't think of any ( but does the bot have an actual cancel-toast button ? )
mod6: I'm prepared to accept the bid.
mod6: I'm not sure how to close the auction prematurely. But...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually i can think of 1 industrial tool that is, to a degree, 'reversible' in the thermodynamic sense, even ~after~ finger went in. the thread cutter. standard instruction , if idjit gets his finger in, is to get him to stay put while the thing is slowly put in reverse, then ends up only with heavy bruise, rather than skinned (if pulled straight out)
asciilifeform: ( 'stop' button on toaster is still a lol, thing has power cord, and i can't picture why you would want to cut the current faster than it takes to yank the cord, it ain't a saw )
asciilifeform: i dun think there even ~is~ a power tool that dun fit the 'paradigmatic enthalpic process' formulation
a111: Logged on 2018-11-08 14:46 mircea_popescu: however, you eminently can't cancel toasting, it's the paradigmatic enthalpic process, and anyone with a college education (such as, presumably, anyone involved in the production of objects, and in general in any practical portion of white civilisation) would be aware.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870189 << from that pov, 'you can't unsaw fingers' , either, yet the saw has the switch
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-08#1870187 << i personally own several machines with such buttons, they make perfect sense
lobbesbot: jurov: Sent 1 day, 15 hours, and 30 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> is the http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=makefiles dead ?
jurov: mod6: can we close the auction 10 hours early? I won't have much time tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: as per "the soldier whio thinks he'll win makes a better soldier than the soldier who thinks he'll lose -- though nobody yet walked on a battlefield and won". or w/e, replace "gambler" for "soldier" if you prefer.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's many portions of "what occurs" that occur strictly in the imagination. "healthy", for instance. this isn't fundamentally wrong -- but anthropology is specifically the scholarly delineation of these. as they're at least seemingly needed for normal functioning in most contexts, and generally adaptative, they're not readily accessible to the common intellect.
mircea_popescu: hence my point, re "they in the culture are strictly unable of either understanding or meaningfully describing culture"
mircea_popescu: but this is not the same thing, is it ?
mircea_popescu: the "cancelling" will happen either in the imagination ("this bread doesn't really look as if it were toasted so it wasn't") or else in the imagination some other way. but in reality, toasting is irreversible.