Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-06-02 | 2016-06-04 → ↓
asciilifeform: but i'm not, so all i can do is to suggest this here, as 'easy path to glory and fame.'
asciilifeform: there is perhaps a third enigma,
asciilifeform: if the item posited in (2) existed, why are there so few pubkeys which break trivially ?
asciilifeform: presently i have only one hypothesis.
asciilifeform: i will leave it as rot13 - znyjner be bgurejvfr rkgreany vaqvivqhnyyl-gnvyberq, if znff, fnobgntr bs n ctcgeba.
asciilifeform: see if yours is same as mine.
trinque: mass sabotage would be far messier, more risk of discovery
asciilifeform: imho we can rule out mass.
asciilifeform: generating unmassaged (no primality test) p and q in ALMOST ALL cases leads to a trivially phuctorable key.
asciilifeform: try it yourself.
asciilifeform: so it could NOT have been 'all keys made with proggy P.'
asciilifeform: unless P had only a dozen users.
asciilifeform: ~but quite easily~ could have been 'proggy P in circumstance C'
asciilifeform: for a P with ~any number~ of users.
asciilifeform: elementarily.
ben_vulpes: phf, asciilifeform: any experience with "mocl"?
asciilifeform: looks like payware.
ben_vulpes: well yes
asciilifeform: i wonder what common lisp they ripped off.
asciilifeform: (sbcl is, iirc, bsd-licensed, so they could have 'legitimately' walked off with it, for instance)
ben_vulpes: my guess is clozure
ben_vulpes: but i do not know how apache 2 plays into it
ben_vulpes: am i...no?
ben_vulpes: reading this incorrectly?
asciilifeform: reading what?
ben_vulpes: implications of clozure cl being licensed under apache 2.0
asciilifeform: i have nfi, haven't used ccl in yearz
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475427 << briefly returning to this thread, there is a remaining possibility - that at one point there were ~many more~ phuctorable pubkeys extant, but most were somehow purged, 'accidented' from sks. with that in mind i would ask for whosoever might know of a historic (1990s vintage) archive of pgp keyz.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 04:08 asciilifeform: so it could NOT have been 'all keys made with proggy P.'
asciilifeform: we may be seeing a remnant.
asciilifeform: oh and it's been a while,
deedbot: [Qntra] Phishing Industry Shifts To Ransomware - http://qntra.net/2016/06/phishing-industry-shifts-to-ransomware/
ben_vulpes: holy fucknuggets
BingoBoingo: Which fucknuggets are you worshipping today?
ben_vulpes: the roadside shrine of phpcrypto
BingoBoingo: Aha, that is a fine set of fucknuggets.
ben_vulpes: blessed be those who port c to php
BingoBoingo: Blessed Be
mod6: lol
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Fellow astronauts, sure. Fellow “American proles”, hmm… - http://www.contravex.com/2016/06/02/fellow-astronauts-sure-fellow-american-proles-hmm/
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475434 << this is actually very interesting
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 04:16 asciilifeform: looks like payware.
ben_vulpes: i am likely going to buy a license because what, i pay half that per year per staff member just to derp on ios shits with some modicum less of friction
ben_vulpes: someone made a cool thing that appeals to certain of my perversities, so i throw the fellow a bone. bonus points, i can write toys for my own phone without having to retch about obj-c or swift constantly, or use one of the eldritch js horrors
ben_vulpes: worst case scenario /i never use it/
ben_vulpes: somewhat less bad, i use it, find it somewhere on the freeshare shit spectrum
ben_vulpes: freeware*
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform solrodar dude has solved the bounty problem, permanently.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather give bitcoin 20 at a time to the dedicated bob becks than 1 at a time to their 20 year junior worm phase.
mircea_popescu: bounty is for tits and naught else.
mircea_popescu: and while on it : a) wake me up when ivy league is not only free to entry but pays "bounty" to some lazy ass fuckwads for doing the fucking course work and b) the notion that this place will always be free as in beer to join is the height of ridiculousness.
mircea_popescu: (weirdly enough, how is it that the "bounty" experience has failed to inform your opinoin of bounties, much like the "new pogo" has failed to inform your opinion of "oh noes end of pogos" ?)
mircea_popescu: must be some sort of "this is how things MUST BE i say, and i dun care what the lab results show" sorta item.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475422 << that the herd is instinctively repelled by pgp, much like soap, so it's perfectly possible NOBODY uses some arbitrary windows offering. much like in the "creative writer and activist"'s house, the broom's not nearly as worn down as the mirror.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 04:05 asciilifeform: see if yours is same as mine.
shinohai: morning #trilema
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 414609 | Current Difficulty: 1.99312067531243E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 415295 | Next Difficulty In: 686 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 19 hours, 56 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
shinohai: dammit Qntra feed died on twitter overnight
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475465 << really should be c++ to javascript.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 05:11 ben_vulpes: blessed be those who port c to php
mircea_popescu: think about all those memory offsets that suddenly can't be ints anymore.
mircea_popescu: random redditard whining paroxistic because hillary is "not equalitarian enough".
mircea_popescu: the about page is also pretty humorous.
shinohai: BingoBoingo: would you publish an article titled "21 dot co releases rebranded crack rock for the reddit niggers" ?
mircea_popescu: what's the crack rock ?
shinohai: crack rock being an adafruit sensor the simply rebranded and called their own
shinohai: 'We're gonna make pennies a day selling the data this thing collects guise!"
shinohai: ./end rant
mircea_popescu: lol schmucks
mircea_popescu: im sure it's yet another "technical leader" company consisting of the skeleton administrative crew of a failed dropshipper.
shinohai: I'm on @21's shitlist for showing them the picture of the Bitcoin "embassy" from trilema.
shinohai: God I love trilema mircea_popescu ...it triggers so many people.
mircea_popescu: yeah, a bunch of idiots.
shinohai: It's a great sieve,
shinohai: or litmus test, however you prefer
mircea_popescu: i prefer :p
mircea_popescu: holy shit the stuff adafruit has on sale.
mircea_popescu: it has never been this great to be a teenager, i swear.
mircea_popescu: if one could somehow be protected from his imbecile ecofeminist mother / limpdick sec compliance father, that is.
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 721678451 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Sean Spillane (For public distribution. Will sign given adequate ID and authentication.) <tokuchan@gmail.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/864781822CD97BF399CC69446EAE99375685C425D99C61E0CF8F043C623E7772
shinohai: When I was child, we only had radioshack kits and such
shinohai: Forrest Mims books, etc
mircea_popescu: yeah we could never make as cool robots as kid can today
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 13:14 deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 721678451 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Sean Spillane (For public distribution. Will sign given adequate ID and authentication.) <tokuchan@gmail.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/864781822CD97BF399CC69446EAE99375685C425D99C61E0CF8F043C623E7772
asciilifeform: check it out.
mircea_popescu: ordinary enough looking 4096 key what.
asciilifeform: a modern gpg key
asciilifeform: this is from the delta.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure hanno boeck had it in his list.
asciilifeform: no mirrorings or other nonsense either.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475480 << as is usually the case, mircea_popescu is the grim plague doctor, complete with beak, telling us exactly when death will come - and pretty much always on target.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 12:09 mircea_popescu: (weirdly enough, how is it that the "bounty" experience has failed to inform your opinoin of bounties, much like the "new pogo" has failed to inform your opinion of "oh noes end of pogos" ?)
asciilifeform: bounties dun work...
mircea_popescu: they do, but not for this purpose.
mircea_popescu: bounties work to get the juvenile sister of consummate junkie delivered on the cheap. hence http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-23#1470766
a111: Logged on 2016-05-23 15:08 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not even a matter of sons ; the usg has no sons, nor any vigor in the seed. it's a matter of desperation - everything americans don't buy, the chinese buy, take apart and move to china.
mircea_popescu: that selfsame bounty does not work to somehow magically turn junkie into person.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform https://www.adafruit.com/products/561 << incidentally it turns out laser cut acrylic is/would have been just as cool as we thought.
deedbot: [Trilema] Qntra (S.QNTR) May 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-may-2016-statement/
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475509 << what's so great there? the brain-rotting 'arduino' sets that make it possible to 'build robot' in php and without knowing what electric circuit is or ever learning to wire light bulb?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 13:08 mircea_popescu: it has never been this great to be a teenager, i swear.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475513 << these were at least not wholly devoid of actual physics.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 13:16 shinohai: Forrest Mims books, etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was looking at the sensors
mircea_popescu: they got great sensors, what. not the sort of item that can be usefully made in kitchen.
asciilifeform: (phun phakt: mims was apparently an infamous 'creationist' advocate)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cheap solid state gyros were prolly the 1 serious advance of the 2000s
asciilifeform: hence the proliferation of flying toys
mircea_popescu: yeah, and no small matter, esp for the age.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475482 << '90s were the era of mindless 'cipherpunk', pgp was 'the mirror' rather than 'the broom', mountains of pubkeys from that era
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 12:12 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475422 << that the herd is instinctively repelled by pgp, much like soap, so it's perfectly possible NOBODY uses some arbitrary windows offering. much like in the "creative writer and activist"'s house, the broom's not nearly as worn down as the mirror.
asciilifeform: ergo i expect that trivial keyz were not simply a matter of 'proggy P'.
asciilifeform: but 'P + diddler D'.
mircea_popescu: why not ? what you say and what i say aren't in any sense exclusive. yes it was the time of a horde of imbeciles "saving hte world". the behaviour of such horde is exactly as per the soap example. an item will not be used because it exists and is useful ; consequently existence and functionality aren't predictive.
asciilifeform: something, i expect, quite simple, just put in a JMP over the primality check .
mircea_popescu: certainly a possibility.
asciilifeform: it was 'perfect crime', quite deniable (these folks are obsessed with 'non-attributability')
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'unwashed herd avoids pgp like soap' is hard to square with 'the vast majority of pgp pubkeys date to that period'... no?
mircea_popescu: nope. not anymore than "unwashed herd avoids music like soap" is hard to square with "vast majority of mp4 kilobytes date from period"
asciilifeform stumped
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475538 <<< thankfully, books never had prayers to Jeebus thanking him for silicon before project assembly.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 14:04 asciilifeform: (phun phakt: mims was apparently an infamous 'creationist' advocate)
asciilifeform: shinohai: well-compartmentalized fella
shinohai: As it should be.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475471 << ben_vulpes where did i ever say that you ought not to buy it..?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 05:33 ben_vulpes: i am likely going to buy a license because what, i pay half that per year per staff member just to derp on ios shits with some modicum less of friction
asciilifeform: if it worx it may be just what doctor ordered for ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: and his salt mine
asciilifeform: alternatively ben_vulpes could simply build, e.g., ecl, for ios
mircea_popescu: for the record, as ridiculous as the whole "earth was created ~30k years ago by a trickster that salted it with fossils to fuck with you" is ; it is no more or less ridiculous (seeing how absolutes aren't comparable) than all sorts of commonly accepted idiocies. such as the notion that man "always" had some sort of "equality" notion, along with a whole host of imbecile anachronisms the general herd entertains ; or that humani
mircea_popescu: ty evolved 50k years ago ; or that "temperatures have been raising", or or or.
mircea_popescu: tons of inept shit people believe, chiefly because of the convenient insulation time provides.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody cancelled religious batshit
mircea_popescu: it doesn't become religious until someone extracts some spurious "should" and starts throwing it at others.
asciilifeform: folks only make up new flavours.
asciilifeform: re earlier, 721678451 has factor 13.
asciilifeform: fella is one of them random int as modulus folk.
mircea_popescu: i wonder why these are so rarely even.
asciilifeform: not 1 iirc
mircea_popescu: shouldn't about 3/4 be ?
asciilifeform: because even can be seen by naked eye
mircea_popescu: so he rolls 2 ints, randomly. that neither come out even is 1/4
asciilifeform: thing is, key generator sets last bit.
mircea_popescu: what naked eye ? i paste you a pubkey and you tell me if it's even by looking at the armor ?
mircea_popescu: a something like that ? what about 3 then.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pgpdump -i
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your ideas of "naked eye" ever wonder me.
mircea_popescu: anyway, by the same logic, about half should be divisible by 3. scarcely any are.
asciilifeform: naked eye =~ hex editor
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we had a few 3
mircea_popescu: naked eye SPECIFICALLY means, NOT hex editor.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but not nearly enough
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it means what, ethernet cable on tongue ?
mircea_popescu: it meas that, naked eye.
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> for the record, as ridiculous as the whole "earth was created ~30k years ago << more like ~6.1k years ago
mircea_popescu: like for instance, nipples are visible to the naked eye.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron why .1 ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it came in over the wire, it isn't visible in the nipple sense, period. yer stuck with toolz
mircea_popescu: the logical construction of "naked eye" in this context is, visible in the armored pubkey as user is expected to manipulate. whadda ya want now.
danielpbarron: that's about how long it's been if you add up the years between all the guys listed in the geneology in The Bible, and then add how long it's been ~since Christ
asciilifeform: everybody seems to use the same english bishop's figure
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron why even bother, rather than declare a number, and preferably a platonic number or something, and then forever stick to that. "it's been 3600 years ago".
mircea_popescu: 100 years from now, still 3600 years ago. same explanations can be produced.
danielpbarron: that wouldn't be true; that's why bother
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminds me, one of the core idiocies of the pgp armour format is that it conceals screaming braindamage just fine
asciilifeform: whereas ordinary hex would not.
mircea_popescu: whether anything is true or not is a complex matter ; but it could be arguabe ~to the same standard~.
mircea_popescu: ie, that it may seem like stuff is around proving otherwise, but it was planted.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform word.
danielpbarron: even the star-light is 'planted' in that those stars couldn't possibly have been burning for billions of years
mircea_popescu: well, so then. 3600 years ago.
shinohai: My mind is boggled that danielpbarron could actually believe earth is only 6.1k years old.
asciilifeform: shinohai: a good chunk of usa does
asciilifeform: though most forget to add the delta
shinohai: I know *that* asciilifeform ... I live in so-called Bible Belt
shinohai: Where the word of Ken Hamm reigns over Bill Nye
asciilifeform: and end up with something like mircea_popescu's suggested system with constant
asciilifeform: who the everliving fuck is nye
mod6: bill nye, the science guy
mod6 laughs
shinohai: That debate was one of the lulzier things I have ever watched.
mircea_popescu: ftr, the "official" notion as to the age of the universe is not ~fundamentally~ better than the "3600 years ago, fixed value".
mircea_popescu: they're both the result of application of faith.
mod6: faith that instruments and math/physics are correct?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the specific number - yes.
mircea_popescu: well, no, bit what instruments specifically ? what math ?
mircea_popescu: it's all a matter of "hey, check out how well these variables fit". "mmmkay ?"
mircea_popescu: that happens to be exactly the same argument supporting the 3600 year world ; except with different equations.
asciilifeform: whereas lower bound, such as 'this star if is far off, i can di parallax arithmetic, yes, and measured speed of light personally' - no.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's say that the resulting "age of universe" constant is more a function of what subset of experimental data you look at ; than anything else.
asciilifeform: only really makes sense to treat it as lower bound
mircea_popescu: for that matter we know for a fact that speed of light isn't a constant at large timescales.
mircea_popescu: there are all sorts of problems once you get out of the 3600 year bubble, so to speak.
asciilifeform: or that we aren't the ants in 'sim ant' whatever
mircea_popescu: hence a certain quaint oldstyle philosopher merit in the stance. "fuck you, you don't know anything" said diogenes in his 3600 yo tub.
asciilifeform: the basic problem of 'let's calculate age of universe' is that you end with an untestable result.
mircea_popescu: even the sentence as stated, "oh, universe begun x bn years ago". "really, it was years ? what spun around what sun, that top of a mother of yours ?"
asciilifeform: it is a dead end in that sense
mircea_popescu: "a proper prince's penis should be as long as my thumb" said the 12 yo princess in her diary.
mircea_popescu: cuz she'd know. allll about princes and penii.
asciilifeform: good heuristic is not to bother calculating anything you can't ~do~ anything with.
mircea_popescu: and yes, "lower bound", you know ? like this : "if the universe ends up being less old than X, we'll have to re-do all these calculations, somehow. i have no idea how the fuck, so let's hope it doesn't happen - and also thar mars rises on time. fucking precession.
mircea_popescu: what happened when the planet didn't appear on time ? they took the whole plumbing of math and physics and instruments apart.
mircea_popescu: that event had repeated itself > 100 times by now, or at least had, in the 90s when i stopped tracking.
mircea_popescu: physics the ended science.
asciilifeform: physics was ~over in '45.
mircea_popescu: sure, and in 1895
asciilifeform: nah that's idiocy.
mircea_popescu: i guess you stopped tracking earlier than me.
asciilifeform: modern day unphysics is made of a thousand little adelberger scum.
asciilifeform: $s adelberger
a111: 15 results for "adelberger", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=adelberger
mircea_popescu: sure, plenty of that. but no, for the same money you could say 1915 physics is made of perpetuum mobile quacks.
asciilifeform: kill'em all and physics ~might~ have another season in it. like neglected houseplant
asciilifeform: crawling with parasites
mircea_popescu: it's moved into a big data phase
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, the deep reason "government" as in, the united retards, are so fixated on big data is simply because that's what physics has been doing since ~80s
asciilifeform: aka 'stamp collecting' in feynman's words.
mircea_popescu: it's not exactly improductive)
mod6: haha. 'united retards'
mircea_popescu: looky alf : it's fucking broken. we know it's broken. there's no fixing this. gotta collect stamps because gotta start somewhere.
mod6: that's totally its new name
asciilifeform: it produces nothing but sales for hdd makers.
mircea_popescu: lotta classification work in nature before anatomy became a thing
asciilifeform: stamp collecting with 0 idea wtf yer doing and why instantly devolves to demonology.
mircea_popescu: there. is. no. alternative!
asciilifeform: and yields 'golf clubs' and 'hockey sticks'.
mircea_popescu: there's no way out of it. "physics" is not a thing. the paradigm is too broken to rescue.
asciilifeform: the alternative is that it is 1920s germany and men are men.
mircea_popescu: eh get out, and solid state gyros are a thing of the devil ?
mircea_popescu: you can't recan ants.
asciilifeform: solid state gyros were implicit in lilienfeld's (yes, 20s!) transistor.
mircea_popescu: le sigh.
asciilifeform: that it took 80y to get them out is testament to the disease of the century.
mircea_popescu: point remains, the way ahead is probably going to be automated maths (as we discussed re v a year ago) applied to immense reams of data. just like in genetics, and so following.
mircea_popescu: science as "fits in head" is not exactly practicable anymore.
asciilifeform: that's a surrender, may as well go back to trees.
asciilifeform: the only actual knowledge is what fits in heads.
asciilifeform: even if only 1 head, anywhere.
mircea_popescu: yeah well, good luck with that. nosce te ipsum's a bridge too far
mircea_popescu: you don't fit in your own head.
asciilifeform: automated proofs are usg crapolade, i speak as a reformed and repented purveyor
mircea_popescu: i wasn't discussing that.
mircea_popescu: need i dig up the link ?
asciilifeform: 'science by machine' is merely nsa datacentre by other name.
asciilifeform: 'we forgot how to synthesize so let's collect shiny shings, like a crow'
mircea_popescu: says the man who believes pgpdump -i to be "naked eye"
asciilifeform: but it is! shows me the bits that are there.
mircea_popescu: IT shows you the bits that are there.
mircea_popescu: you're the cunt in this relationship. the penis, is ITS.
asciilifeform: i could connect cable to tape and view tape with iron filings, and in fact have, and get same effect.
mircea_popescu: naked eye means no one's showing you anything, you're seeing. opposite situation.
mircea_popescu: and in physics, you could spend 10bn years with a spaceship and a huge fly net, get same effect.
asciilifeform: difference is that one you can actually do. in 10,001 entirely different but isomorphic ways.
asciilifeform straps on fresh gas mask
mircea_popescu: that's exactly what i was talking about ; no idea why you colored it in idiocy-du-jour nsa crapolade./
asciilifeform: because 'big data'.
mircea_popescu: myeah, risque i guess.
mircea_popescu: what'd you have me call it ? take the cern cyclotron as the flagship example.
asciilifeform: it is flagship example of physics's rotting corpse.
asciilifeform: massive employment program for adelbergers and their catamites.
mircea_popescu: right, in the sense that it went as far as tesla-style can go
mircea_popescu: and it's broken there.
asciilifeform: 'tesla-style' works with lone crackpot and limited resources. because he has the incentive to ~synthesize~
asciilifeform: when you pile up usgola, you get megalomaniacal constructions with 0 insight. precisely the calutron from the previous thread.
mircea_popescu: the item in question is neither.
mircea_popescu: what exactly "megalomaniacal" ? i dun get it. it's a tool.
asciilifeform: the item in question is 'benevolent inca empire wants to give $billion to physics' but you can't give 'to physics' because that's somewhere between 0 to 3 guys and nobody's gonna give some unwashed weirdos a $b
asciilifeform: so they give it to 'physicists' which is 10,001 bob becks.
asciilifeform: and their students.
mircea_popescu: is icbm fuel tank "megalomaniacal" because of parochial view that ride-on lawnmower tank "should be enough for everyone" ?
asciilifeform: and they build massive pyramid and 'physics is happy'
asciilifeform: icmb was not research tool, it solved specific problem.
mircea_popescu: well, it could be such a thing, in fiction.
asciilifeform: and in fact korolev suffered when yangel offered to solve SAME problem 100x cheaper with solid fuels.
asciilifeform: (which has 0 space exploration potential)
asciilifeform: all modern icbm are of this type.
mircea_popescu: i don't follow the logic here.
asciilifeform: logic being that icbm was not a pure 'let's build pyramid to show how massive the imperial cock' exercise. it had measurable goals, like building bridge.
mircea_popescu: but you seem to have attached in a random spot to my comparison, that wasn't in any sense contemplated in the original discussion.
mircea_popescu: what is this, ricochet thinking with very angry people ?
asciilifeform: my contention is that cern is not doing physics.
asciilifeform: but something else.
mircea_popescu: and you base this on anything other than "it's large and i don't exactly understand how it functions" ?
asciilifeform: and physics is what, e.g., schrodinger, did.
asciilifeform: actually i understand pretty well how the thing works.
mircea_popescu: because neither of these are, substantially, bars to its being physics.
mircea_popescu: ok so then what is the objection ?!
asciilifeform: that there is no synthesis.
mircea_popescu: it's a detector! it's jobn is to detect!
mircea_popescu: wtf synthesis ?
asciilifeform: and that 'strings' are bunkum, and until the last 'strings' proponent is purged, there is no physics.
asciilifeform: they EXPLICITLY rejected testability as a value.
mircea_popescu: it's not related with "strings" other than, finally universally accepted proof they're nonsense.
asciilifeform: where are the massive piles of burning paper, topped off by 10,001 hog-tied lifelong string practitioners ?
mircea_popescu: again, it's a detector, not a guillotine.
asciilifeform: my objection is not even to expensive detectors.
asciilifeform: but that it is ~all~ we have.
asciilifeform: and likewise that schrodinger et all were able to get pretty far without costly detectors, and i do not regard it as 'they had low-hanging fruit'
asciilifeform: the other thing is that the presence of the costly detector may very well subtract more from the field, in its adelberger gatekeeper creation, than it ever could add.
asciilifeform: consider how the eotvos thing went.
asciilifeform: is the presence of the 2 eotvos balances a net positive? or would we actually have a handle on schwartz's result if everyone was STUCK with my $50k version of the experiment (calorimeter.)
mircea_popescu: well, the reason that is all we have is that previous physics died in a pool of its own vomit ; and that current math is not up to the task of supporting a repair.
mircea_popescu: it'd be a major overhaul.
asciilifeform: this is PRECISELY mircea_popescu's argument in favour of 'symbolics died and it was good, we dodged a bullet'
mircea_popescu: and that math is insufficient is already seen in, say, protein study.
asciilifeform: 'having 3 computers is worse than none'
asciilifeform: because creates priests.
mircea_popescu: so let it create priests.
mircea_popescu: the notion that the computer "creates" priests is not unlike the 3yo's notion that THE CHAIR ~made it~ stumble.
mircea_popescu: idiots will idiot, it's what they do.
asciilifeform: adelberger would be ~nothing~ without his $B toy.
mircea_popescu: he's nothing with or without, what.
asciilifeform: would have 0 power to prevent schwartz.
mircea_popescu: "his", spare me.
asciilifeform: 'his' in the same sense a usg carrier is the captain's.
mircea_popescu: well, principally schwartz has power to prevent schwartz. usually through variations of imgur thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu earlier conceded that the 50k calorimeter would not constitute proof... iirc
mircea_popescu: to whom ? to them, no.
asciilifeform: that 'adelberger's torsion balance or it didn't happen'
mircea_popescu: gotta know when you have the ~obligation~ to join the terrorists.
asciilifeform: sorta what i said to schwartz !
mircea_popescu: people like to delude themselves about all sorts of optionalities that they neither have nor could exist.
asciilifeform: he had a very particular problem
asciilifeform: it was that his relationship with physics crackpots for last 30 yrs is ~same as mircea_popescu's - with bitcoin scammers
asciilifeform: he spent multiple hours, every day, unpaid, spraying pesticide in sci.physics etc
mircea_popescu: that's not much of a problem is it ?
asciilifeform: putting 10,001 kinds of pretentious idiots in their place
asciilifeform: well it was a problem in the sense that
asciilifeform: he did not see anywhere to go other than ~to them~
mircea_popescu: this is a problem.
mircea_popescu: of schwartz's.
asciilifeform: because that is ~where you go~ when you're drummed out of mainstream physics.
asciilifeform: there is not yet a 3rd planet.
mircea_popescu: i dun follow the logic. what ?
asciilifeform: a 'mircea_popescu institute of physics' or whatnot.
mircea_popescu: dude what insistute wtf.
asciilifeform: the logic is that the result of 50k eotvos goes straight to /dev/null.
asciilifeform: no one will read, use, extend, whatever.
mircea_popescu: "how can i be an independent married woman" "you can't be" "but i want to live like i please and make my own decisions and also have fambly and stuff" "shut the fuck up, you're too stupid to breathe"
asciilifeform: the only folks who will read are the idiot grade-school educated 'physicists' who contemplate 'chemtrails'.
asciilifeform: understand, the circle of folks with actual education is ~small~
mircea_popescu: looky, if you want to do things FOR SUCH REASONS, you have absolutely no business deluding yourself with notions of "science" or whatever.
mircea_popescu: you're just another retarded teenage whore with a narcissism complex.
mircea_popescu: go camming or whatevert it is, people will look at you.
asciilifeform: well he did end up writing 'into the void'
mircea_popescu: what the fuck difference could it possibly make WHO READS IT!
asciilifeform: there it sits.
mircea_popescu: so then what's the problem.
asciilifeform: same place majorana's unified theory sits.
asciilifeform: bottom of the sea.
asciilifeform: problem is that it is dead !
asciilifeform: kinda the definition of dead
mircea_popescu: and the idea is that if pbs made a weekend special about it, what, majorana'd feel better ?
asciilifeform: it dun go around or do nuffin'
asciilifeform: nah but if folks with actual brainz got a hold of it - then ~possibly~ something.
asciilifeform: fuck pbs.
mircea_popescu: what's the author care ?
mircea_popescu: you suppose if a coupla choice quotes get your penis wet, shakespeare goers "oh look, some fuckwad got laid, my life's not been in vain" ?
asciilifeform: again no.
asciilifeform: i dun think in the language of demoocracy, and NEVER did, and these pieces are neither here nor there.
mircea_popescu: being a scientist is not, nor can be, ~ a profession~. you understand ?
asciilifeform: all i care is to get the schwartzes together so they can burn the world.
mircea_popescu: it can be what you do, if you choose to do it. it can be what you "are", if you care to think in those terms.
mircea_popescu: but, like music, or love or whatever the fuck, it's a complete package, with motivation falling within it not without it.
asciilifeform: but no, it is not profession, nobody has ever been paid ~to do it~, any more than invention is profession.
mircea_popescu: well, the problem with getting the schwartzes together is that they're traditionally VERY indisciplined.
asciilifeform: this is problem.
mircea_popescu: it's a wonderful thing, i don't rightly understand it either, but they're terrible at it.
mircea_popescu: obviously, a certain lassitude of thought is required to think properly. but nowhere is it said that if you shit in toilet, you must also bathe in toilet, eat from toilet...
asciilifeform: 'take the rifle fishing' aha.
asciilifeform: i always liked this example
asciilifeform: from mircea_popescu's article
asciilifeform: because think, how heavy a fishing pole !
mircea_popescu: im sorry now i didn't take the pic of this movie ad
mircea_popescu: there's this lively "industria argentina" making shitty movies, and you know, it's so obviously retard kid copying it hurts
mircea_popescu: thgere was an action movie with an old fuck holding a rifle exactly like a fishing rod
asciilifeform: prolly theatrical rifle made of plastic.
shinohai: Possibly like this girl helping asciilifeform solder? http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/solderingiron.jpg
asciilifeform: holyshit waut
asciilifeform: sizzzzzzzl
asciilifeform: where did this gem come from shinohai ??
shinohai: I forgot, I have had it in my ridiculous stock photo collection for some time.
asciilifeform: it is a great multilayered gag - what is even there to solder on component-side of pc mobo.
asciilifeform: even supposing the iron were...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l!!
shinohai: Got to put solder on top of the capacitors to ensure they stay put
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for some reason i am reminded of 'gangsta pistol grip'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i witnessed folk actually trying it at the range !
mircea_popescu: this is the place i live in.
mircea_popescu: sublty idiotic.
asciilifeform: hey it beats the screamingly-idiotic
mircea_popescu: no. thats the crazy thing. you think, at first, that it does.
mircea_popescu: but it doesn't.
asciilifeform: i could even see an argument that 'screaming - you build a force field wall against, subtle - worms its way in' but mircea_popescu isn't sitting there with cheap beer watching industria argentina filmz, is he now.
asciilifeform: so doesn't worm in.
mircea_popescu: let's for the sake of argument examine this.
mircea_popescu: so, you're a young and enthused, reasonably clever, 19yo girl in random shithole country.
mircea_popescu: and you meet this guy, who's pretty fascinating.
mircea_popescu: part and parcel of this being, you discover you're actually kinda dumb...
mircea_popescu: and there's a lot to read up on...
mircea_popescu: quite a lot...
mircea_popescu: hey check that out, you weren't even holding the knife correctly...
mircea_popescu: the sidewalk's broken...
mircea_popescu: and in fact was broken as designed...
mircea_popescu: and even the movie poster is wrong.
mircea_popescu: how do you at this point distinguish this encounter from you know, joining a cult ?
mircea_popescu: so yes of fucking course it creeps in, i can't be arsed to police the entire edge of the fucking world.
asciilifeform: i never subscribed to 'cults' as being intrinsically wrong. they are only wrong when their gods don't actually exist.
mircea_popescu: but no gods exist.
asciilifeform: so dun gods, problem solved.
asciilifeform: cult on something solid.
mircea_popescu: but please, by all means, close eyes!
asciilifeform: no reason why not with open eyes
mircea_popescu: your notion that "gods" could be just a label, and then you promote "science" to "god-dom" and everythig will be ok because "it's not really a god" is outright endearing.
mircea_popescu: what the everliving shit.
asciilifeform: in what sense is, say, mircea_popescu's terrarium, where six gurls spin on cock like a peculiarly inverted set of propellers of 6-engined junkers, not a 'cult of solid'.
mircea_popescu: teh remainder is irrational.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you may have mistook the address, the 'let's pray to goddess of reason' folk are in the kako house
asciilifeform: i see cult as less of a religious mechanism and more of effective form of military organization. historically - misused.
mircea_popescu: fine, but this practical approach does not resolve the discussed 19yo's problem any ; it's not practical to enforce separation between idiocy and sense on all the edges, nor will it ever be.
mircea_popescu: nor has it ever been, actually. so as a practical matter, you're guaranteed some contamination.
asciilifeform: nor is 19 y.o. ru boi going to personally cut apart 'paint the snow piles white and grass green' from 'effective army'
asciilifeform: nor is effective army a thing if he gets to cut.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-10 15:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and yes, it goes back to the 'blind loyalty' thread
a111: Logged on 2016-04-10 15:55 asciilifeform: thinking folks have chronic problems with forming spartan 'testudo'
asciilifeform brb, food
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475866 << installing a wholly new mental operating system ~cannot~ be a 'rational' decision, nor is it really a decision as such, more of a 'cock action' that is done ~to~ somebody.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 16:04 mircea_popescu: nor has it ever been, actually. so as a practical matter, you're guaranteed some contamination.
asciilifeform: gotta end up in right place, right time, be reasonably young, etc.
asciilifeform: i've never actually met an adult who had the experience and wasn't a traumatic wreck.
asciilifeform: (they might, somewhere, exist.)
asciilifeform: 'Mao gave the mangoes to Wang Dongxing, who divided them up, distributing one mango each to a number of leading factories in Beijing, including Beijing Textile Factory, where I was then living. The workers at the factory held a huge ceremony, rich in the recitation of Mao’s words, to welcome the arrival of the mango, then sealed the fruit in wax, hoping to preserve it for posterity. The mangoes became sacred relics, objects of vene
asciilifeform: ration. The wax-covered fruit was placed on an altar in the factory auditorium, and workers lined up to file past it, solemnly bowing as they walked by. No one had thought to sterilize the mango before sealing it, however, and after a few days on display, it began to show signs of rot. The revolutionary committee of the factory retrieved the rotting mango, peeled it, then boiled the flesh in a huge pot of water. Mao again was greatly
asciilifeform: venerated, and the gift of the mango was lauded as evidence of the Chairman’s deep concern for the workers. Then everyone in the factory filed by and each worker drank a spoonful of the water in which the sacred mango had been boiled. After that, the revolutionary committee ordered a wax model of the original mango. The replica was duly made and placed on the altar to replace the real fruit, and workers continued to file by, their
asciilifeform: veneration for the sacred object in no apparent way diminished.'
asciilifeform: or, for ol' kako,
asciilifeform: 'More likely than not, some members of the ruling coalition are not very loyal. They’d rather defect. But they can’t backstab the coalition just like that. You don’t do that; it looks bad. Your comrades will go against you. There are costs to defection. Unless you’re not the only defector. You need a way to signal your intention to defect, so that other disloyal fucks such as yourself (and they’re bound to be others) can jo
asciilifeform: in up, thus reducing the likely costs of defection. The way to signal your intention to defect is to come up with a good excuse. A good excuse to be disloyal becomes a rallying point through which other defectors can coordinate and cover their asses so that the ruling coalition doesn’t punish them. What is a good excuse?'
asciilifeform: plenty of lulz for everybody.
deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 819733497 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'David Eisenblaetter <d.eisenblaetter@gmx.de>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1DD107254DCFC376B8BE46E0E2262793C90EC35088C87891063AE5C96240E77E
asciilifeform: ^ mircea_popescu there's one of yer divisible-by-3's.
asciilifeform: rejoice!111
asciilifeform: exp 65537 and no mirroring.
asciilifeform: i suspect we're gonna see more of these.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l
asciilifeform: mega-unsurprise.
asciilifeform: interestingly, not 1 of the last 3 phuctor pops, imports in any version of gpg i have.
mircea_popescu: dude chinese people from the mao ebullitious era all share this rodent appearance. like walking voles or something, all round and teethy.
asciilifeform: rice kingdom ftw.
mircea_popescu: somehow i doubt the real life models were nearly as... bubbly.
asciilifeform: eh this is moar of su 'sov realism' than life.
trinque: psa that joe's datacenter will happily stand up an openbsd box on the cheap
trinque: monday night I'm gonna migrate deedbot off my trb node box; will be much more responsive
asciilifeform: trinque: neato
asciilifeform: (scroll down)
trinque: bwahahaha that's great
asciilifeform: 'people will upload cp to sks!1111' 'what to DOOOOOO?!!!' 'censor everything!'
asciilifeform: eschewing wot is the exact equivalent of eschewing toilet training.
asciilifeform: shitting where you stand.
mircea_popescu: brilliant solution. now they'll be responsible for curating it.
trinque: "Luckily, signature verification crypto doesn't have to worry about side channel attacks. Alternatively, we could add openssl as a dependency and outsource the signature verification to it."
mod6: <+trinque> monday night I'm gonna migrate deedbot off my trb node box; will be much more responsive << cool
asciilifeform: which is GREAT!11111 because now they can drop T3rr0R157!1111 keyz, e.g., mircea_popescu's
mircea_popescu: which really would be to everyone's great benefit.
asciilifeform: sorta why we put salt on the slug, no ?
asciilifeform: it is sizzling nicely.
mircea_popescu: in the end, there's no real solution to naggum's point. herd tither.
mircea_popescu: you can't have oil-in-water juice.
mircea_popescu: anyway, props to the blody shovel dude for noticing the obvious
mircea_popescu: (unified china = horrible for chinese culture)
asciilifeform: he's a goldmine of chinese lulz
mircea_popescu: who's he anyway ?
asciilifeform: seems like fella actually reads the language.
asciilifeform: spandrel!
asciilifeform: $s spandrel
asciilifeform: pretty sure i met him in meatspace once or twice.
asciilifeform: clever fella.
mircea_popescu: ah really ? i'm not familiar.
mircea_popescu: so invite him over.
asciilifeform: historically my batting avg is 0/N
asciilifeform: i suggest mircea_popescu or hanbot try..
asciilifeform: this is work for masterz.
mircea_popescu: he is clever. to wit : "What kind of intellectual climate existed in that time. What happens when everyone is coming up with new ideas all the time? Think about it in contemporary terms. What happens when everybody and his grandma has his own ideas is… a whole lot of signaling spirals."
mircea_popescu: this is approximately how a working thinker works.
asciilifeform: fella is quite definitely a working mind.
asciilifeform: no obvious cockroaches, even, afaik.
asciilifeform brb, installing ruinously spiffy new lcd
mircea_popescu: check this out!
mircea_popescu: "So basically, Confucius today would approve of Angela Merkel and Bryan Caplan. Thanks dude. No wonder he was never taken seriously by any of the dozens of kings of his time, and died a low-class civil servant. His universalism however was catnip for the nascent class of non-aristocratic bureaucrats, who developed it for centuries after his death. They loved this “we are above armies, borders, and that gruesome stuff. We ca
mircea_popescu: re about righteousness and love, about what is right for all humanity”. This in 300 BC. Do you see now why the First Emperor burnt their books and buried the scholars alive after he unified the Empire?"
mircea_popescu: guy even groks the fucking pest confucius was.
mircea_popescu: (and yes the book burning was correct in spirit, if not particularly productive in implementation. the faux "humanism" nonsense is infamant.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and check out the comments - he has his very own viragh all spinning.
mircea_popescu: poor spandrell. he's never digging himself out.
mircea_popescu: $up spandrell
deedbot: spandrell voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: o hello there.
spandrell: hello
spandrell: the most serene republic
spandrell: i was just listening to a podcast on venice while driving
mircea_popescu: then it works well, that's the reference.
spandrell: contrasted the utmost serenity of venice with the complete fucked up madness of genoa
spandrell: fun stuff
mircea_popescu: but serenity is here used in the metaphorical, political sense of medieval europe
spandrell: what is this place about? here i was thinking it was a bitcoin forum or something
mircea_popescu: the most serene republic is the most serene because it is the sovereign of all fiat governments, not because it's quiet.
mircea_popescu: well, it's a loose assemblage of terrorists dedicated to destroying the very possibility of what you'd call "a state" and salting the earth where it stood
mircea_popescu: so no such thing can ever again exist.
spandrell: i'm running a loose assemblage of my own, fwiw
mircea_popescu: how's it going ?
spandrell: btw as per the log you sent me
spandrell: somebody claimed to have met me in meatspace
mircea_popescu: $s meatspace
a111: 176 results for "meatspace", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=meatspace
mircea_popescu: ^ it's all integrated, you know. the someone was asciilifeform
spandrell: didn't happen
mircea_popescu: hm. because you never met anyone ? or because you know who he is irl ?
spandrell: i've only met two people ever from this kind of place
spandrell: and i'm pretty sure he's not one of them
spandrell: it's hard to meet people, living in japan and all
mircea_popescu: i thought that's where people go to meet all the hot japanese chicks!
spandrell: well if this asciilifeform is a hot japanese chick then I might have met her
mircea_popescu: anyway, asciilifeform is this fellow by the name Stanislav Datskovskiy.
mircea_popescu: lemme fish his good looking chicklooks hmm where was it
spandrell: i can confirm then, never met the guy
spandrell: it would be an honor though, do tell me any time you come to the east
mircea_popescu: oh also, reading this article makes me want to round my knowledge of medieval chinese literature (which consists of golden lotus, vase and spring plumlet) with this other thing. know of any decent edition of said "water margin" in any european language i could get online ?
mircea_popescu: i'm genuinely curious whether it'll read offensive or you're just a pansy.
mircea_popescu: it's about this 1350s novel ?
spandrell: yes, the water margin
spandrell: i think i said it there that i read parts of the original
spandrell: then realized i could just watch the show
mircea_popescu: yes but where'd i read it
spandrell: well that i'm afraid i don't know
mircea_popescu: sucks. alright.
spandrell: maybe there's something on libgen?
mircea_popescu: yeah i'll have it fished out ; just thought maybe you know something. worth asking.
spandrell: sorry, chinese classics are all on wikisource
spandrell: i am very fond of using that
spandrell: i probably should check out some english translations if i want get the book written
mircea_popescu: i sadly don't read chinese
spandrell: there might be a version of the tv show with english subtitles
spandrell: perhaps the old version, there's two
mircea_popescu: why would i want to read a tv show script, good lord. even the people paid to do it don't.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, do you have a pgp key ?
spandrell: nope, i'm a humanities grad
spandrell: total noob
mircea_popescu: ok. do you know what pgp is ?
spandrell: i do
spandrell: not that much of a noob
mircea_popescu: hey, i dunno until i ask :)
spandrell: just a lazy connaiseur of good IT practice
mircea_popescu: so the way this channel works is that you register your pgp signature with the bot ; and then you can maintain an identity. otherwise anyone can "be" spandrell
spandrell: i see
mircea_popescu: the bot allows you to self-voice, if you have the WoT presence, which you likely will because i'd rate you.
mircea_popescu: there's a huge pile of interlocking wonders that make up la serenissima, i'll be more than happy to explain them in detail as time goes by.
spandrell: i used to be a lot in irc
spandrell: when i was 15
spandrell: i actually started to study japanese because i found a bitch on IRC who taught me
mircea_popescu: yeah, prior to bitcoin that was the case with me exactly.
spandrell: now look at me
spandrell: and people say the internet is bad for you
mircea_popescu: well, if it's not bad for you, it's bad for the wife.
mircea_popescu: check it out asciilifeform the 1300s chinese novel even has the "bitcoin corrupts" doctrine. "obviously he was a bro, and all bros of the world should join the rebel army".
mircea_popescu: spandrell for the record, it's not at all an islamic argument. why would anyone but an idiot hang out with the idiots ? who ever goes willingly to an accountant party ? etc.
spandrell: am i only able to read you, mircea_popescu, or are you the only one talking right now?
mircea_popescu: i'm the only one talking right now.
spandrell: oh, the islam thing
spandrell: i wasnt really that serious but i do understand i struck a nerve
mircea_popescu: i'm jus' curious.
spandrell: i obviously understand why nobody with a 90+ IQ would hang out with arabs
mircea_popescu: are they that dumb actually ?
mircea_popescu: i had some pretty clever friends that part of the world.
spandrell: well there's always the right edge of the bell curve
spandrell: i wouldn't know, i generally avoid them when i'm home
mircea_popescu: the debates as to genetic basis for intelligence have raged for a while in the logs. it's not really settled i guess, but there's certainly no merit for NATIONAL concepts of intelligence hm ?
spandrell: they also have this bro culture to them which i dislike too, as i wrote int he water margin post
mircea_popescu: but you never explained any mechanics of the dislike, merely stated it.
spandrell: why i dislike bros?
spandrell: imagine yourself in the position of qin ming
spandrell: or lu junyi, who gets fucked in a similar way
spandrell: you're doing your thing as a military officer
spandrell: working for the government
spandrell: doing the honorable patrician kinda thing
spandrell: wife, kids
spandrell: work
mircea_popescu: alright...
spandrell: then a bunch of single young dudes
mircea_popescu: i don't do that, nor would i. but i suppose i'm to leave this aside ?
spandrell: get your father
spandrell: mother
spandrell: wife
spandrell: children
spandrell: all killed
mircea_popescu: how do they do that ?
spandrell: their heads put on spikes
spandrell: do what
asciilifeform: spandrell: you weren't at handle's parties were you
mircea_popescu: spandrell get all my inner circle murdered.
asciilifeform: i may have spandrell confused with another fella
spandrell: never been to the US
mircea_popescu: o wow really ? where you from then ?
asciilifeform: then definitely confused.
spandrell: some inconsequential country in europe
spandrell: you met handle? how's he
spandrell: we do talk a lot
asciilifeform: spandrell: he stopped inviting me eons ago
mircea_popescu: lol what'd you do.
asciilifeform: after i declared open jihad against his employer
spandrell: the govt? or his specific agency
spandrell: oh yeah
asciilifeform: he is iirc a colonel there
spandrell: he was pissed about snowden and stuff
spandrell: see, he's a good example of a qin ming kind of guy
mircea_popescu: so ridiculous, "i'm a colonel at nsa" "nice, i'm a regatta rear admiral!"
spandrell: who doesnt like the govt but works for them and tries to be honorable
asciilifeform: honorable lol
mircea_popescu: tries to be honorable is like trying to be faithful.
trinque: what is this, give unto caesar?
mircea_popescu: there's no "trying".
spandrell: of course there is
spandrell: plenty of people go through the motions
spandrell: to please wife or mom
mircea_popescu: and this is then honorable ?
mircea_popescu: seems infantile.
mircea_popescu: let mom and wife please, what.
spandrell: why infantile?
spandrell: life's complicated, sometimes you dont have a choice
mircea_popescu: because it's what children do, try t oplease a woman.
mircea_popescu: well, especially all the sometimes you've decided not to have a choice.
spandrell: see, bro culture
spandrell: i'm not a faithful man
spandrell: i dont work for the govt
spandrell: i try to please my wife with money and not faith
spandrell: i get your point
mircea_popescu: you just object to the notion some people might not give a shit what women think ?
spandrell: no no, i completely get that
spandrell: and try to do that myself
spandrell: but not everybody can, for whatever reason
mircea_popescu: well i find this claim unsubstantiated so far, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: $up spandrell
deedbot: spandrell voiced for 30 minutes.
spandrell: what claim
mircea_popescu: that "not everybody can"
spandrell: sometimes mom is a bitch
mircea_popescu: so not everyone wants to. fine.
spandrell: sometimes your wife has social commitments which you can't control
mircea_popescu: not like they have to!
spandrell: sometimes you dont have fuck you money
spandrell: need to play ball to get a job
mircea_popescu: i guess she's getting out one way or another. but then again this'd be why i own my women as opposed to marrying them.
mircea_popescu: ah, poverty. sure. si quis, inquis, dives est, tum cenare potest cum cupit. si pauper...
mircea_popescu: poverty however is dishonorable.
spandrell: how does that work
mircea_popescu: well, inasmuch as it forces you to do things.
mircea_popescu: or what "that" were you asking about ?
spandrell: well back to the water margin and bro culture
spandrell: my issue with the stuff is that the hero-dudes are all about fight and drink and competing to fuck unrealistic fighting women
spandrell: but who's producing children?
spandrell: do you have children?
spandrell: well there you go
mircea_popescu: it's an option though. i could, if i were so inclined. i'm not, but that's a societal failure.
mircea_popescu: if children had actual marginal utility i would have children. by the dozen.
spandrell: tell me about it
mircea_popescu: so it's not a "there you go".
spandrell: it is
mircea_popescu: on the contrary.
spandrell: the water margin herodudes
spandrell: live in 1110
spandrell: but their particular lifestyle means that for them children have no marginal utility either
mircea_popescu: ah, and THEY don't have any children. yeah i can see that argument in that context.
mircea_popescu: it's not a "for me". i said it in the general.
spandrell: they're into drinking parties and constant warfare
spandrell: kids aren't very useful there
mircea_popescu: children today are a marginal cost.
mircea_popescu: they're not useful at all.
spandrell: i wrote a post about that too
spandrell: kids today are pets
spandrell: they are useful for being cute and cuddly
spandrell: little else
mircea_popescu: aite. i'ma need some time to get to that, seeing how i'm not going too fast through this one cuz we keep talking midway :D
mircea_popescu: spandrell ok, so then we agree.
spandrell: which is why people tend to have 1 or 2, as beyond that they start being less cute and more annoying
spandrell: nobody has 3 cats except crazy catladies
mircea_popescu: now, ironically, i ~could~ make useful children. but i require items (such as an undisputed right to kill them) that i could also make, but can't be arsed to.
mircea_popescu: moreover, post-world effect. i'm much better off picking up select 19yo children from otherr people than making them de novo.
mircea_popescu: much like after-the-end people go around looting the walmart, not stocking the shelves.
mircea_popescu: $up spandrell_
deedbot: spandrell_ voiced for 30 minutes.
spandrell_: thanks
mircea_popescu: of course by now we don't know whether this isn't an impostor :)
mircea_popescu: make a pgp wouldja.
spandrell_: if somebody actually bothers to supplant me i'll feel very flattered
mircea_popescu: i don't think you've experienced paranoia of quite this strength and vintage in all your born days.
spandrell_: anyway, i didnt come here to convince you to marry and have children
spandrell_: i take it you guys liked my chinese stories
spandrell_: should i bother writing the book?
mircea_popescu: what exactly are you trying to get writing it though ? money ?
mircea_popescu: there's no money in publishing.
spandrell_: yep
spandrell_: lol
mircea_popescu: seems a silly plan.
spandrell_: well i cant do it for the fame
spandrell_: im pseudonymous
mircea_popescu: you'll get what, 30 to 50 cents a copy. most of what you see will be the advance, which is what by now, a grand ?
mircea_popescu: hardly worth a man's time.
spandrell_: no no
spandrell_: amazon takes 30%
spandrell_: i could sell pdfs by myself
mircea_popescu: you DON'T have a book deal ?
mircea_popescu: get out.
spandrell_: Orz
mircea_popescu: this is basically the etsy plan. you know what the etsy chick is ?
spandrell_: no
mircea_popescu: the etsy chick is this imbecile female that instead of getting raped and loving it, listened to her stupid mother,
mircea_popescu: stayed in school,
mircea_popescu: finished with a useless degree, and is now trying to ... sell things on etsy.
mircea_popescu: you know, handmade soap!
spandrell_: if i spend, say, 100 hours writing a book
spandrell_: i sell it for 5 bucks
spandrell_: and i sell 1,000 copies
spandrell_: that's 5,000 bucks which is nice but nothing special
mircea_popescu: a) sub hour per page is hardly a book is it ; b) minimum wage is still minimum wage ; c) you've ever sold 1000 anything before ?
trinque recalls a chick in portland that had an etsy shop for cat bowties
mircea_popescu: trinque major in chinese acrobacy and irish clowning, 100k debt ?
spandrell_: well my blog has a decent readership, i don't think 1,000 is farfetched
trinque: mircea_popescu: god knows
trinque: I laughed in her face
mircea_popescu: spandrell_ you notice how this isn't actually related to what i say ?
spandrell_: whats a) supposed to mean
spandrell_: that a page of a book should take more than an hour?
mircea_popescu: well no ?
spandrell_: lol
spandrell_: well if i can't get 5 pages per hour i'm not bothering with the damn book
mircea_popescu: but think about it! what sad sort of bro culture is this where you put as much work into the book as a reader into the reading!
spandrell_: didn't take me more time to write all those storeis
mircea_popescu: why's he reading ?
spandrell_: stories*
mod6: <+trinque> I laughed in her face << lol
spandrell_: i don't see how that follows
spandrell_: i write fast, i'm awesome like that
mircea_popescu: oh i see.
mircea_popescu: hadn't occured to me, right.
mircea_popescu: well... if you're awesome like that i guess 5k shouldn't be too hard.
spandrell_: that's the thing tho
spandrell_: 5k are nice, but it's not like i can write a book every month
mircea_popescu: course you might consider shitting it directly. rather than going through this complex process with pdfs.
spandrell_: i mean i could, but i'd run out of funny stories pretty fast
mircea_popescu: you know a funny derp by the name tucker max ?
spandrell_: yep
mircea_popescu: he's the fine example of this insanity.
spandrell_: lol
spandrell_: he did sell a damn lot of books tho
mircea_popescu: so, too lazy to stick with law ; had "high traffic" website, which he parlayed into a coupla books which i suppose sold a coupla thousand copies, or w/e enough to pay rent for a coupla years. and then...
mircea_popescu: he was rescue-married like a little bitch and there he goes, raising some woman's children, and no doubt pleasing her.
mircea_popescu: *thumbsup* but mgith as well cut to the chase.
spandrell_: his wife's rich?
asciilifeform: aaaaaaaaaaaah
spandrell_: well i guess that explains it
asciilifeform: finally
asciilifeform: wall of lcd.
mircea_popescu: what's a "dark triad psychopath"
mircea_popescu: o look, cool people. mkay.
spandrell_: i could write about this guy
spandrell_: 1912
spandrell_: confucian scholar
spandrell_: publishes an article on a local newspaper
spandrell_: saying he discovered the secret of the great men of history
trinque: one secret trick they don't want you to know, eh?
spandrell_: how all the dynasty founders and all the great heroes we adore came to be so great
mircea_popescu: spandrell_ looky : the publishing thing works (marginally) if you get book deals. from macmillan or whoever the fuck still does it. they pay you a few thousand, kinda measly, and maybe royalties but not really.
spandrell_: then he says, two words: thick and black
spandrell_: which translates to shameless and evil
spandrell_: you gotta be shameless and evil, then you can achieve great things
spandrell_: which is kinda like the dark triad
mircea_popescu: eh, the english notion of "evil" by now roughly maps to "not entirely boring".
spandrell_: and indeed the book started a fever of books on how being shameless and evil helps you with chicks too
spandrell_: i can't get book deals because i dont write under my real name
spandrell_: my blog would get me in jail in my home country
mircea_popescu: how come ?!
spandrell_: hate speech
mircea_popescu: hahaha mkay.
spandrell_: no kidding
spandrell_: i said blacks are dumb
spandrell_: 5 years jail
spandrell_: i said women are dumb too
spandrell_: 5 more years
mircea_popescu: what country is this ?!
spandrell_: all of them
mircea_popescu: well, they musta missed me.
spandrell_: where you from
asciilifeform: spandrell_: move to usa, here they simply sentence you to starvation via unemployability
mircea_popescu: romania, originally.
asciilifeform: advanced! civilized!111111111
spandrell_: it is better than jail with Ahmed
asciilifeform: spandrell_: here we have jail with Jamal
mircea_popescu: i find it hard to believe anyone gives a shit, but anyway.
spandrell_: nobody does unless you get into cathedral circles
spandrell_: publishing is that
spandrell_: you can shit on feminism at home or at the bar with your buddies
mircea_popescu: depends how much money you have, i guess. but yes, publishing for a living is, definitionally, being a bureaucracy hanger-on.
spandrell_: but you cant write a book saying that arabs are dumb
mircea_popescu: what's your thing with arabs anyway ?
spandrell_: they're dumb and hostile
spandrell_: my thing! i'm the guy saying islam might be a good idea
mircea_popescu: i've heard the same said of, in no particular order, women, computers, day old chicks, dogs, hungarians, germans, actually i tire of the list, it's universal.
spandrell_: so you mean arabs are not dumb and hostile
mircea_popescu: these aren't jews right ? arab's one thing ; islam's another. do you mean muslims ?
mircea_popescu: i have no fuycking idea what "arabs" even is.
spandrell_: people who speak arabic
mircea_popescu: in my head it sits on the same shelf with "the country of africa"
mircea_popescu: i speak some arabic!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from my reading, the shriveled orcs who populate egypt from mircea_popescu's tales thereof
spandrell_: wtf
spandrell_: why would anyone study arabic?
mircea_popescu: i guess i am hostile enough, so maybe not a good example.
mircea_popescu: spandrell_ you think english is a better culture language than arabic ?!
spandrell_: oh yeah
mircea_popescu: anywya, i didn't study any, picked off hos, like any other language.
asciilifeform went on a relatively brief kick of (written) arabic
spandrell_: arab hos?
spandrell_: christians i guess
mircea_popescu: what exactly is your exposure to this "arab" thing, because i'm starting to suspect maybe it's all livresque.
spandrell_: muslim arabs
spandrell_: in europe
spandrell_: and morocco, once
mircea_popescu: ok ok but i mean... there's whores in cairo ; more than in berlin for sure.
mircea_popescu: ah, well... distress immigration is never a good measure, my good man.
mircea_popescu: you have any idea how "the irish" looked from staten island cca 1900 ?
spandrell_: i didnt have the confidence to go seek a hooker in casablanca, honestly
spandrell_: it was hard enough to avoid getting scammed when asking for tea
mircea_popescu: i bet you that if your car broke down and you had to use someone's phone, you'd rather do it in isfahan than chicago.
spandrell_: that's the thing with chicago
spandrell_: probably like peasant migrants look to native Shanghai urbanites
spandrell_: isfahan is not arab, though
mircea_popescu: what is it ?
spandrell_: iran
mircea_popescu: right...
asciilifeform: $up spandrell_
deedbot: spandrell_ voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: the secret story of iran being that a large not-really-arab community is being oppressed by a buncha arabs.
mircea_popescu: there's some subtext there, talk to locals sometime they miught explain it.
spandrell_: some friends went to iran
spandrell_: japanese dudes going alone
spandrell_: apparently liked it
mircea_popescu: the arab womenz are actually quite pleasant.
spandrell_: i met this egyptian couple in japan
spandrell_: not long ago
spandrell_: the woman was were a full black burka
spandrell_: she was very nice indeed
spandrell_: laughed a lot
spandrell_: was wearing*
mircea_popescu: it's not really common in egypt, they usually wear that misr style hair cover thing, like jesus' mother.
spandrell_: husband was an engineering PhD
spandrell_: i mean to each his own, i really have nothing against that
spandrell_: but i find them dumb and boring in general
spandrell_: whether they are genetically dumb I guess is disputable, and I have no special evidence
mircea_popescu: especially from a distance.
asciilifeform: spandrell_: ever interact with 'neurotypical' folk of your own lands ?
asciilifeform: they are somehow less boring than the egyptian ?
spandrell_: oh yeah
spandrell_: yep
asciilifeform: on account of what ?
asciilifeform: that they read the same völkischer beobachter as inflicted on you ?
spandrell_: well even controlling for IQ
spandrell_: normal people in europe would talk about soccer
spandrell_: TV
spandrell_: some politics
asciilifeform: and the egyptian ?
spandrell_: a lame book they might have read while on the commute
spandrell_: egyptian talked about soccer a lot
spandrell_: and his dumb religion
asciilifeform: sounds quite similar to avg american
asciilifeform: (which come in 2 common religions, 'world created 6.1k yr ago' and 'demoocracy')
spandrell_: this egyptian was a damn PhD
spandrell_: the equivalent white guy would've not talked about soccer
asciilifeform suffered the company of american ph.d. folk for many years, for a living
spandrell_: gentlemen, you are really making my point
asciilifeform: spandrell_: do you know what the chinese ph.d. i shared an office with for 2y liked most to talk about ?
spandrell_: arab culture is bro culture
asciilifeform: ... where to buy petrol
asciilifeform: to save a penny.
spandrell_: whites are likely to enjoy islam
spandrell_: lol
asciilifeform: spandrell_: for man on titanic, enjoying water is optional
asciilifeform: it doesn't ask first.
spandrell_: and again i also wrote recently about asians in the west
spandrell_: that they're gonna get fucked one way or the other
spandrell_: whites prefer arabs to chinese
asciilifeform read this - and most of spandrell_'s very entertaining material
spandrell_: thank you
spandrell_: so you're saying here that arabs are cool, probably not even dumb
spandrell_: you're also saying that having children makes no sense because you cant own them or own your own wives
spandrell_: well islam solves that
asciilifeform: spandrell_: for the most part i quit reading 'reactionsphere' when mr mold vanished. and around same time found 100x more intellectually-rich ru equivalent.
spandrell_: you get to own your woman
asciilifeform: but occasionally i return for a helping of lulz
asciilifeform: i find it ~fascinating~ how english folks are without exception wholly unaware of ru 'reaction' world.
spandrell_: what's ru?
asciilifeform: spandrell_: big fat thing that takes up 1/6 of dry land on yer globe
spandrell_: oh
spandrell_: so what, russian blogs?
spandrell_: how's the approach
asciilifeform: not only blogs.
asciilifeform: you can get printed in dead tree there (e.g., limonov)
asciilifeform: without passing 'eu human rights' commissions.
spandrell_: limonov counts as reactionary?
asciilifeform: sure as hell.
spandrell_: who else? dugin?
asciilifeform: granted his reaction involves reversion to living in yurts and taking up rape of dickless plains dwellers as primary hobby
asciilifeform: various folk.
spandrell_: you're russian?
asciilifeform: ended up in usa by stroke of misfortune as a boy though.
spandrell_: hah
spandrell_: what keeps you from going back
mircea_popescu: spandrell_> whites prefer arabs to chinese << this is very true. chinese womenz aren't hawt. what can i do.
asciilifeform: same thing that keeps spandrell_ from moving to, say, china.
mircea_popescu: arab womenz can be shockingly hawt.
spandrell_: chinese women are easier than arab women
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually i prefer the chinese chix.
asciilifeform: but i'm a monster.
trinque: lol
spandrell_: at least chinese men wont try to kill you
mircea_popescu: omfg fancy this, variance! within our very cult
spandrell_: they'd like to but they're chickens like that
mircea_popescu: WHERE HAVE WE GONE WRONG
asciilifeform: l0ltr0n
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform please please like what i like omaygerd.
mod6: :D
spandrell_: i was in china for years actually
asciilifeform: spandrell_: neato. why'd ya leave?
spandrell_: kids
spandrell_: didnt want to raise kids there
asciilifeform: interesting - why not ?
spandrell_: food is poisoned
spandrell_: air is poisoned
asciilifeform: ah like usa.
spandrell_: schools are crazy expensive
asciilifeform: like usa.
spandrell_: babies get kidnapped all the time
mircea_popescu: jesus the great empire china built for itself.
asciilifeform: china is sorta like a man who eats poisoned fish and dies of same
asciilifeform: ate usa, now 'enjoys' the heavy metals.
mircea_popescu: they ate too much massachussetts ?
mod6: mass-a-two-shits
spandrell_: i mean it's not that bad
spandrell_: got a coworker who had a kid too and stayed
spandrell_: hasnt been kidnapped afaik
mircea_popescu: what do you work ?
spandrell_: but japan is completely awesome and i didnt see the point
spandrell_: i'd rather not say
asciilifeform: spandrell_: why, you're one of the 3 blokes who run reactors, and it'll be instantly obvious which one ?
spandrell_: yep
spandrell_: anyway, russian reaction might be awesome
spandrell_: but russia sucks, which detracts from its credibility
asciilifeform: spandrell_: it is the ONE civilized (in whatever sense) country that is resisting.
spandrell_: oh come on, china is resisting too
asciilifeform: china ate the fish.
mircea_popescu: spandrell_ what's "sucks" mean here ?
spandrell_: low living standards
spandrell_: such that brain drain happens
mircea_popescu: hahaha this is a rather... distant view.
asciilifeform: y'know, typical ru fella has hot water in his flat
spandrell_: got a ukrainian pal which is fond of sending me pictures of the russian countryside
asciilifeform: unlike jp.
spandrell_: hospitals with rats
spandrell_: that kind of stuff
asciilifeform: yet somehow 'jp is the fyoooootooor' and 'ru sux'
spandrell_: unlike jp?
spandrell_: hot water? what are you talking about
mircea_popescu: so, dickless beta whiteboy figures "islam" is "all about making all men equal", so he'll get a wife from allah.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile irl, islam is about him dieing with a fucking explosive towel wrapped around his head, as a 37 yo virgin.
asciilifeform: spandrell_: last i heard jp flats have under-counter heaters and many folks still warm tub with electric submersion thing.
mircea_popescu: which, incidentally, i met aplenty in the arab lands. and they ~match spandrell_ 's ideas of "arab"
mircea_popescu: except they're arabs in exactly the sense reddit's populated by computer experts.
spandrell_: i dont even know what electric submersion means
spandrell_: everybody has hot water here
spandrell_: and baths are automatic
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ie, the tea maker ?!
spandrell_: press a button
spandrell_: set the temperature
spandrell_: and once it's done you get a girl voice saying "sir your bath is ready"
asciilifeform: spandrell_: in reactor operator's flat - yes
spandrell_: it has a mike too so you can call your wife from the bathtub to ask for a beer
spandrell_: it connects to the kitchen
asciilifeform: in typical american expat's - no.
spandrell_: where she's supposed to be
spandrell_: i mean come on
asciilifeform: and what does 'kitchen' mean in a 1-room closet flat anyway
asciilifeform: the upper right hand corner ?
asciilifeform: next to toilet curtain ?
spandrell_: 1-rooms are 1-rooms
spandrell_: families don't live in 1-rooms
spandrell_: single people do
asciilifeform: and, what, when they want to breed, their room undergoes mitosis ?
trinque: $up spandrell_
deedbot: spandrell_ voiced for 30 minutes.
spandrell_: i mean come on
trinque: what's the rent on a place with the bathtub robot
asciilifeform would like to know this also
asciilifeform: $up spandrell
deedbot: spandrell voiced for 30 minutes.
spandrell: if russia were rich i'd be living there myself; who the hell wants to stand progressive bullshit if we could avoid it
asciilifeform: spandrell: sounds like you are reasonably rich in jp ?
spandrell: utterly middle class
asciilifeform: the money will carry considerably farther in ru
asciilifeform: 'middle class' in jp will buy solid gold toilet in, e.g., usa.
spandrell: not really
spandrell: wages arent that high
asciilifeform: (unless, as often the case, yer money is tied to geography)
spandrell: prices are pretty cheap these days
asciilifeform: how much does the robo-bathtub flat go for in usd ?
spandrell: 3 rooms
spandrell: 600 dollars
spandrell: provincial town though, not tokyo
asciilifeform: i can get same for 600 in some ohio shithole also.
asciilifeform: where nobody wants to live.
asciilifeform: jp =~ tokyo in my mind.
spandrell: well in tokyo it can go for 1200-2000
spandrell: depending how central
spandrell: most people in tokyo live in 2 story houses in the suburbs
asciilifeform: iirc if very central, and you want 'extras' like 'absence of vermin' or 'dishwasher and wash machine' it will go 4000+.
spandrell: 100sqm, USD400k
asciilifeform: theeeeere we go.
spandrell: no vermin
spandrell: washing machine is of course universal
spandrell: dishwasher increasingly so
spandrell: no way it costs more than 2000 unless you're in an absurdly fancy place
asciilifeform: 400k buys you a flat in moscow.
asciilifeform: or two in buenos aires, iirc
asciilifeform: or 1/2 a flat in washington dc.
spandrell: how much is the equivalent moscow wage?
asciilifeform: equivalent to what ?
spandrell: the same job in tokyo
asciilifeform: i have no idea what kind of reactor spandrell operates
asciilifeform: perhaps it does not even ~exist~ in moscow
asciilifeform: just like mine does not.
asciilifeform: which is why i'm stuck in this godforsaken shithole
spandrell: an average salary for a 35 year old man in tokyo would be USD50k year
asciilifeform: who the hell cares what is 'average pay of 35 yo'
asciilifeform: do we include down's syndrome cases ?
asciilifeform: the dead ?
spandrell: college grads
asciilifeform: what college ? what profession ? etc.
asciilifeform: even 'pay of engineer' is VERY tricky question.
spandrell: any college, any profession
asciilifeform: because ~nobody is 'generic engineer'
spandrell: i mean you're trying to argue that life in russia is good
asciilifeform: these aren't meaningful 'any's.
spandrell: russians emigrate, some even to japan
asciilifeform: spandrell: nope.
spandrell: japanese dont emigrate, most certainly not to russia
asciilifeform: just that there is NO such thing as 'life in russia'
spandrell: what does that say
asciilifeform: any more than 'life in jp'
asciilifeform: or 'life in usa'.
asciilifeform: it is very different animal depending on ~who~ you are.
spandrell: there you go
spandrell: race doesnt exist!
spandrell: i'm the linguist, you dont play semantics with me
asciilifeform: japanese don't much emigrate because 'dun wanna live with niggers'
asciilifeform: (which includes, to jp fella, you an' me)
spandrell: chinese dun wanna live with niggers too
asciilifeform: nobody does.
spandrell: but they put up with it in order to beat the crap out of china
spandrell: anyway, gentlemen, i must go
spandrell: pleasure talking to you
spandrell: hope you buy my book if I write it
asciilifeform: spandrell: i will buy it.
asciilifeform: spandrell: you are encouraged to return with pgp key.
asciilifeform: spandrell: this is where the cultured men resist the rot.
spandrell: thanks
asciilifeform: jolly fella.
asciilifeform: been readin' him on and off, for eons.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: l0l!!
asciilifeform: 'Extract-key-from-key is defined in section 6.27.7 of PKCS#11 standard version 2.30. It may as well have been renamed “extract-substring” as the analog of standard operation on strings. This derivation scheme creates a new key by taking a contiguous sequence of bits at desired offset and length from an existing key.' << holy FUCK
asciilifeform: this existed?!!
Framedragger: yeah i've recently started - enjoyable indeed
Framedragger: yeah wtf right?!! (i didn't know, wtf)
Framedragger: maybe you can run cellular automata on that thing, with those useless APIs
asciilifeform: seems as if it were tailor-made for crapping out the kind of keys that have been appearing in phuctor.
Framedragger: indeed..
Framedragger: but look it's secure because when it's deriving new secret keys from another secret key it has this majestic security constraint: "If the original key used in this process is sensitive, then the derived key must also be sensitive for the derivation to succeed."
Framedragger: so we're all good guyz
Framedragger: sensitive = some bit set
Framedragger: ohey vc how's romania treating you then
vc: Framedragger: foarte bine :^^)
Framedragger: wow, ok, so pkcs#11 is horrible over 9000.
Framedragger: cool vc, and i hope your rolling-out of hosting boxes is going most cocksuredly well!
vc: it's going terribly but hopefully things should be ironed out soon and the service will launch
vc: none of it has been my fault, delays at my parent host
Framedragger: (re. pkcs#11, because e.g. that substring-attack is only meant to be against symmetric keys stored in that shitformat, but since e.g. ECDSA keypair's secret logarithm "is just stored as 32-byte scalar value [it's not meant to be stored that way there, but is, because reasons], [...] extract-key-from-key can be used to successively reveal chunks of that scalar value.")
vc: and broken promises
asciilifeform: Framedragger: whole thing is ~very~ overdue for the cleansing fires.
asciilifeform: including the horse it rode in on.
Framedragger: yeah, hard to argue with that
Framedragger: vc: hey better slower than fast and shitty :)
vc: when you're paying 2 grand fast and quality should not be mutually exclusive
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475877 << Go to Florida, visit the dope recoverers meetings there. Many adults long reprogrammed.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 16:42 asciilifeform: i've never actually met an adult who had the experience and wasn't a traumatic wreck.
pete_dushenski: o hey spandrell showed up. neato.
mod6: damnit, tbot is taken
mod6: guess i should have figured...
pete_dushenski: $google site:contravex.com spandrell
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476047 << I thought you wrote the post with them as the heroes?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 18:46 spandrell: why i dislike bros?
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2015/06/07/the-follow-your-heart-myth/ << quoted him here too. smart fellow, particularly on chinese historical happenings and interpretations, evidently.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474946 << this is famous and not unlike trump's experience on the apprentice.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 21:22 BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=4521
pete_dushenski: j. trudeau as media darling has been well established since before i was born
pete_dushenski: and pretty well since he was
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474350 << in case you missed this, dan, it worked!!1
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 03:46 danielpbarron: pete_dushenski, done.
trinque: and now I learn that the custom search api doesn't do site:
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: colour me impressed at the depth of your twatter pull
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 21:52 mod6: damnit, tbot is taken
pete_dushenski: trinque: leave it to me to show you how badly your beautiful toys are broken
trinque: search engine in WoT when
pete_dushenski: speaking of which, anyone ever tried to send full 'account balance' from trb node when it was clearly a bullshit number ?
shinohai: Implying I have a Bitcoin balance.
pete_dushenski: obviously, it doesn't create a proper tx, but trb doesn't know this and so effectively locks the coins from being spent.
pete_dushenski: all because it thinks it's waiting for confirmations that will never come
trinque: glorious
pete_dushenski: fucken braindamaged already, though i can't speak to whether heathen client operates in same way
pete_dushenski: blockcypher is only tracker to recognise broken tx, but shows only 'empty script type' inputs and
shinohai: Haven't personally ever seen this, though I only load up enough coins from another wallet sweep to complete tx
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474673 << so it is. twas a popular little hobby back in 2010-2013, though i know of no one who took it beyond that and up to the business level.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 16:42 mircea_popescu: so electricity is like, <4 cent / kwh commercial in alberta ? who the hell knew, that's pretty good mining pricing neh ?
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: speaking of your twatskillz, mind dropping @jackbaruth my response to http://archive.is/iBQow ? >> http://www.contravex.com/2016/06/02/fellow-astronauts-sure-fellow-american-proles-hmm/
pete_dushenski: let's dump a bit of ol' jack baruth in the logs, just ftr :
pete_dushenski: Now it’s China’s turn to attempt to prove that their centrally-managed currency can do it. They’re going to fail because nobody trusts China and nobody ever will. The business community knows that the Wall Street game is rigged but it’s rigged in a way that they trust. Nor will Bitcoin ever be more than a plaything for people on the fringes of the financial world. Pete’s very knowledgeable about
pete_dushenski: Bitcoin but just like the goldbugs and the silver hoarders he rarely looks very hard at the way that real people use money in the real world. The average sub-130 IQ person looks at Bitcoin as a technology indistinguishable from magic, assuming that it’s that kind of magic where people periodically compromise the blockchain and steal money. Believe me when I tell you that we will all go back to biting c
pete_dushenski: oins and cutting silver dollars into “bits” before we have any significant public adoption of any cryptography-based currency.
pete_dushenski: Neither Pete nor I will live to see a world in which the United States is not a major player in international affairs, if not the major player. Go ahead and bet on that.
pete_dushenski: this, ladies and gents, is the cream of the auto journo crop. it's hard to believe that he's as accomplished a driver and writer as he is while maintaining these aforequoted pretenses. but what can i say, i have a soft spot for the guy.
pete_dushenski: in still other azn insights : "The quality of the highways are actually fantastic - in the old-days before we had proving grounds built in China we used to do high-speed testing on the newly-built highways before they were opened to public, and they were smooth as can be even at 120mph +. I would say the quality of the roads in the South are a little better, and industrial Provinces like Jinan a little po
pete_dushenski: orer because of all the overloaded trucks tearing up the roads. But generally the highways get re-paved at least once-a-year, to both stimulate the construction-based economy here but also to keep the workers employed."
pete_dushenski: can anyone confirm this once-a-year paving schedule ? because fuck me am i getting tired of the washboard frost heaves in this frozen backwater.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: "This evidence includes asserting it's will over Bitfinex, the shambling forum scam the succeeded Mt Gox and Bitstamp as..." << s/it's/its and s/the succeeded/that succeeded
BingoBoingo: ty fxd
pete_dushenski: speaking of spandrel (but not spandrell), i was just reading about the different types of spandrel glass. turns out there are more than a few ways to hide the slab end, mechanical, and electrical systems using an opaque curtain wall insert. the glass on these opaque sections is usually tempered because they get so hot with waste heat and greenhouse effect that they could crack from thermal shock. also, vo
pete_dushenski: c's can ~stain~ them, which really makes you wonder wtf they're doing to our lungs.
pete_dushenski: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 570.4400000000001, Best ask: 570.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.55000, Last trade: 570.99, 24 hour volume: 49413.50272649, 24 hour low: 535.65, 24 hour high: 579.9400000000001, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski may be interested in my discovery today that 'nec' makes quite usable 'eizo's.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475389 << now if every bureaucratic meeting was that good, i'd still be setting my alarm clock every morning
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 02:17 mircea_popescu: and in other japanews, http://66.media.tumblr.com/1904e39d9c0714d833fd435cd5f0faa2/tumblr_o0de7zkzHV1u9ovyno1_400.gif
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: why couldn't you have figured this out before last christmas ? first it's the amazing pogo, then the amazing eizo... AND NOW IT'S NEITHER
asciilifeform: new hardware happenz srsly
pete_dushenski: 'except opteron' (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: also eizo is pretty neat but the 3k one not the 300 one.
pete_dushenski: ok so let's hear about these nec's
asciilifeform: just installed one
pete_dushenski: mk. model ?
asciilifeform: 'EA275UHD-BK'
asciilifeform: surprisingly decent.
asciilifeform: fucking hate 16:9 though, but ~nothing else exists in that density.
pete_dushenski: ya, 16:10 or bust
asciilifeform: 4:3 or bust.
asciilifeform: but there is NO 170+dpi 4:3.
pete_dushenski: eh what is this, the cinema ?
asciilifeform: dunno where pete_dushenski goes to cinema, but around here they're 16:10
asciilifeform: anyway i stack 16:9's on their side to get giant 4:3. but it's a pain.
pete_dushenski: i've tried that too. didn't take.
pete_dushenski: anyways, i think i have enough monitors for the time being. unlike cars, you can't just park 'em all and grab the keys to the one you're in the mood for that day. a workstation isn't a commute or an errand run
pete_dushenski: http://blogs.harvard.edu/philg/2016/06/03/good-15-inch-laptop-with-a-great-keyboard/ << good ol' philg asking readership for hardware recommendations. only caveat : MUST RUN WINDOWS 10
asciilifeform: mebbe he does malware analysis now.
pete_dushenski: on self ?
pete_dushenski: like surgeon who cuts own flesh ?
pete_dushenski: pretty sure he has some small consulting biz or other, don't think it was malware related
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/lcd.jpg << nec is 2nd from left
pete_dushenski: since when don't you use imhur ?
asciilifeform: since there is 1 photo
asciilifeform: and i dun have to crank out html for indices.
trinque: nice, portrait and 4 of them is the only way to go
trinque: SO MUCH TERMINAL
asciilifeform: trinque: goes great with balanced diet of mouseless wm
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i'd like to start adding vertically (there is, e.g., ample room for 2 moar horizontal 16:9s above the left and right pair each) but difficult to found proper mounting arms to make'em align just-so
asciilifeform: so far i've found 0 off-the-shelf mounts that extend far enough vertically AND horizontally.
asciilifeform: lever force, i suspect, would be too great, it'd snap the chunk of desk it attaches to clean off.
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, mircea_popescu check out this here pond scum, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/53e25f3c-920e-4598-9b84-f1c9aea1ff73
asciilifeform: l0l tiraspol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform uh what's notable ?
asciilifeform: crapolade new-to-me, is all.
asciilifeform: and containing what looks like turdware c&c.
asciilifeform: with ~usable params (could, theoretically, simulate a bot of his, see what it gets asked to do.)
mircea_popescu: looks more like some sort of windows "hacking tool" by the idiotic "try everything n times"
asciilifeform: i used to bait these folk regularly.
asciilifeform: they don't show up on dulap nearly as often as one might expect.
mircea_popescu: anyway, apparently pearl s. buck did an anglo water margin
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476633 << pete_dushenski who was the derp ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 22:07 pete_dushenski: Bitcoin but just like the goldbugs and the silver hoarders he rarely looks very hard at the way that real people use money in the real world. The average sub-130 IQ person looks at Bitcoin as a technology indistinguishable from magic, assuming that it’s that kind of magic where people periodically compromise the blockchain and steal money. Believe me when I tell you that we will all go back to biting c
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'good earth' ?
asciilifeform: not == afaik
mircea_popescu: nah, all men are brothers
asciilifeform: gotta love the immortal ' magic where people periodically compromise the blockchain and steal money '
mircea_popescu: the who ?
asciilifeform: nobody wants to contemplate that he is pond scum ready for the fermentation reactor
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pete was quoting some derp from his commentz
mircea_popescu: i suppose this is an iq 95 dude with extenders to 110 ?
asciilifeform: l0l extenders
mircea_popescu: you know, turbo button pushed on.
asciilifeform: can haz turbo button ?
asciilifeform: i could use one.
asciilifeform: if it were like the one on my 486 dx2, it'll turn me cache back on.
mircea_popescu: "how long is your penis ?" "drawn it's like even over ten inches"
asciilifeform: (i was a cruel shock when i learned that it LIED and DID NOT set clock to 10Mhz like promised on the lights!111111)
asciilifeform: ^ and in fact turbo buttons ~always worked this way
mircea_popescu: you know looking at this trilema article, it's a pretty epic shot of you asciilifeform ? i hope you use it for cvs.
asciilifeform: lel where this was
mircea_popescu: you could be on a fucking rap album. wu tang ain't got nothin' to touch this.
asciilifeform brb, ph00d
mircea_popescu: i never quite realised its sheer potential ; not until spandrell guy asked about you.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476485 << ahahaah hater. listen, just because japan is better than russia doesn't mean you hafta get sore. japan's always been better than russia :D
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 20:06 asciilifeform: the upper right hand corner ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476516 << and most people in new york live in long island ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 20:12 spandrell: most people in tokyo live in 2 story houses in the suburbs
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476524 << more like 3 and even that's scandalous wtf.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 20:13 asciilifeform: 400k buys you a flat in moscow.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 23:06 mircea_popescu: you could be on a fucking rap album. wu tang ain't got nothin' to touch this.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476547 << by this token, women suck cock, even of men ; men don't suck cock, and if they do it's sure as hell not women's, ergo... men live better ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 20:16 spandrell: japanese dont emigrate, most certainly not to russia
mircea_popescu: since when is behaviour the measure of situation, what's next, niggers steal because poor ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476588 << me chuckles quietly to himself.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 20:47 vc: it's going terribly but hopefully things should be ironed out soon and the service will launch
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476590 << consider another point here. on the basis of v neuman's quote with the state of sin, what can be said of a purported "cryptography mechanism" which can be stored as a 32 byte value ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 20:47 Framedragger: (re. pkcs#11, because e.g. that substring-attack is only meant to be against symmetric keys stored in that shitformat, but since e.g. ECDSA keypair's secret logarithm "is just stored as 32-byte scalar value [it's not meant to be stored that way there, but is, because reasons], [...] extract-key-from-key can be used to successively reveal chunks of that scalar value.")
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 22:07 pete_dushenski: Now it’s China’s turn to attempt to prove that their centrally-managed currency can do it. They’re going to fail because nobody trusts China and nobody ever will. The business community knows that the Wall Street game is rigged but it’s rigged in a way that they trust. Nor will Bitcoin ever be more than a plaything for people on the fringes of the financial world. Pete’s very knowledgeable about
mircea_popescu: where do all these nuts keep popping from ?
mircea_popescu: "oh, mommy knows best" "yeah you know what, go fuck your mother."
mircea_popescu: leaving it as an exercise for any attendant alfs to explain difference between locklin and baruth. $indistinguishable_flavours_of_stupid_old_man
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 22:41 asciilifeform: and i dun have to crank out html for indices.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1475889 << the behaviour is so deeply instinctual in humans, ex-goatherder chicks will naturally hallucinate how other girls they don't like don't love you enough.
mircea_popescu: tis a thing.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell spandrell amusingly, you fall in a very orwell-like vat (as per http://trilema.com/2015/in-which-orwell-avoids-what-he-does-not-wish-to-see/ ). really what you describe is the behaviour ~of idiots~ and them only. actual people do have ideology-activity connections going.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: that's actually how you distinguish actual people from the plain cuntspawn. and that's why attempted reductionisms a la "bros" don't actually work.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing women can [say|wail] that can possibly change the plain fact that men do what they say an' say what they mean.
mircea_popescu: nor can this ever be "forgotten", it's a thing in itself not a thing by convention.
pete_dushenski: might be spandrell_ ? but no key so who knows
mircea_popescu: funny that people actually think female behaviours are human behaviours, nowadays.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476698 << one jack baruth. it's on contravex if you're so inclined.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 23:02 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476633 << pete_dushenski who was the derp ?
mircea_popescu: used to be a time when opposite held true. that time was... what, coupla generations ago ?
pete_dushenski: time dun stand still
mircea_popescu: yeah but i mean... these damned colonists ? from one idiotic excess to its opposite ?
mircea_popescu: can't simmer down any ?
pete_dushenski: lots of room to move around in der kolonies. gasses expand to fill their containers.
mircea_popescu: yeah but given their inept inability to REFERENCE THINGS and their truly despicable johnsmithism "i invented hot water in 1910", there's no dampening of the process, they'll just bong one way and the other and back again forever.
mircea_popescu: a land of which no culture could ever come. much like a planet too small to retain gases.
pete_dushenski: until they hit mexico to the south or... that's it i guess
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 18:54 mircea_popescu: ah, poverty. sure. si quis, inquis, dives est, tum cenare potest cum cupit. si pauper...
mircea_popescu: heh. this internet and its incredible poverty...
mircea_popescu: yeah pete_dushenski , the whole quote is "diogenes philosophus cuidam interroganti qua hora hominem cenare deceret : Si quis, inquis, dives est, tum cenare potest cum cupit. Si pauper, tum cenare debet cum potest."
mircea_popescu: (diogenes the philosopher asked by someone when people to eat said : if the one you ask about is rich, he can eat when he pleases ; if poor, has to eat when he can.)
pete_dushenski off for beer time.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476725 << jp occupies what one might call the opposite magnetic pole from mali or whoever is bottom of the orc pile.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 23:09 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476485 << ahahaah hater. listen, just because japan is better than russia doesn't mean you hafta get sore. japan's always been better than russia :D
asciilifeform: jp - folks bred for politeness.
asciilifeform: sorta showcases the extreme of the 'tallest building you can build' from mircea_popescu's 'prophete' article.
asciilifeform: in jp, pretty much everybody with white face, is LITERALLY nigger.
asciilifeform: in all of the various senses. is my current understanding.
asciilifeform at one point was pathologically well informed on jp secondhand, but is emphatically NOT a veteran thereof nor set foot there, and will not comment further
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476739 << the aes key used by everybody here when they gpg is precisely 32 bytes long. (not that this is something to be proud of.)
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 23:19 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476590 << consider another point here. on the basis of v neuman's quote with the state of sin, what can be said of a purported "cryptography mechanism" which can be stored as a 32 byte value ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476745 << locklin entertained me (he had articles on 'q' programming lang, apl, etc. that were not wholly uninteresting.)
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 23:25 mircea_popescu: leaving it as an exercise for any attendant alfs to explain difference between locklin and baruth. $indistinguishable_flavours_of_stupid_old_man
asciilifeform: i still have nfi who baruth is/was.
asciilifeform: aside from the claptrap he left on pete's site.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476746 << i prolly oughta plant down a second, rubbish wordpress, for the rubbish.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 23:28 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476680 << wordpress auto-indices!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-03#1476751 << fella doesn't seem to presently ~have~, yet, an ideology, beyond a quite accurate picture of 'the west is phucked'
a111: Logged on 2016-06-03 23:43 mircea_popescu: ;;later tell spandrell amusingly, you fall in a very orwell-like vat (as per http://trilema.com/2015/in-which-orwell-avoids-what-he-does-not-wish-to-see/ ). really what you describe is the behaviour ~of idiots~ and them only. actual people do have ideology-activity connections going.
asciilifeform: any more than sailor clinging to broken plank of wrecked ship, has ideology.
asciilifeform: (ideology thereby)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh get out, i recall empire of japan owning teh czar pretty hardcore.
asciilifeform: sure did!
mircea_popescu: that was such a lulzy battle too. what was it called ?
asciilifeform: was good preview of what alt-historical non-bolshevik ru would have been raped like.
mircea_popescu: the "largest naval encounter" at the time
asciilifeform: port artur ?
mircea_popescu: i think so
mircea_popescu: technically, i expect it'd have gone the way of turkey.
mircea_popescu: would be today ~polish commonwealth + stans
asciilifeform: but likely with more territorial carve.
asciilifeform: certainly not 1/6 of dry land mass.
mircea_popescu: fortunately for everyone involved, czar was infinitely more inept than sultan
mircea_popescu: weird what ends up being saving grace.
asciilifeform: folks with 'life force' in'em - eat those without. newz at 11?
mircea_popescu: yes, but the part where it is better to have shitty czar than strong sultan if you have no life force left is rarely comprehended.
asciilifeform: it goes under the heading of 'ancient art of knowing when to eat naga'
mircea_popescu: eating nagas... now that'd be a show.
asciilifeform: sure would !
asciilifeform pictures something liek hybrid of sword swallower and snake charmer
mircea_popescu: these schmucks seriously go around pretending some book published in the 1930s is "under copyright" ?
mircea_popescu: for the love of fuck.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: waiwut
mircea_popescu: $google "all men are brothers" pearl s buck "full text"
mircea_popescu: so fucking useless, this "google search" thing...
mircea_popescu: anyway, whatever. derpy books.
asciilifeform: interestingly, no ready ru either
asciilifeform: though i suspect that i know why
asciilifeform: ('all men are brothers' appears to be straight translation of the cn thing into eng)
asciilifeform: shinohai: any context for that ?
mircea_popescu: btw asciilifeform ever seen http://trilema.com/2011/biroul/ ?
asciilifeform: yes! mircea_popescu linked it quite recently
mircea_popescu: oh i did ? sorry.
mircea_popescu: i'm rather infatuated with it currently.
asciilifeform: gonna try in other langs?
mircea_popescu: i don't think that one's possible in any other lang.
mircea_popescu: no but see it is direct learned reference, all through, to famous poem. "o bizant, bizant ferice"
mircea_popescu: ru doesn't have cartarescu cycles in it.
asciilifeform: this'd be like attempting riff on pushkin in engl.
mircea_popescu: that's the problem with high culture. you can't REALLY translate huxley say in french. what translate ?
asciilifeform: extreme sport aficionados only.
mircea_popescu: exactly!
asciilifeform: sorta why i largely gave up on anglicizing ru fare. it ends up a hash, like that bugler thing
asciilifeform: can be moved to do it, if coming across some gaping and suctiony it-shaped hole
asciilifeform: but not otherwise.
shinohai: asciilifeform: coin attempting to seekritly auto dump coins on bittrex, I found it lulzy
asciilifeform: shinohai: coin?
asciilifeform: this was... what ? walletron ? why would it print 'dumping coins' to stdout ?
mircea_popescu: imo the bugler came out pretty good.
mircea_popescu: then again, that's me from this end of it.
shinohai: Startcoin ... some part of Butterin's waterfall
shinohai: Need coins? Ask teh scammers!
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