Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-05-31 | 2016-06-02 → ↓
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo props for being so on your game lately. every time i've seen something remotely bitcoin-related elsewhere on the net lately, i see that qntra already had it covered. liking the terseness atm too.
deedbot: [Qntra] Qntra (S.QNTR) May 2016 Report - http://qntra.net/2016/06/qntra-s-qntr-may-2016-report/
deedbot: [Qntra] Social Media Warrior Follows LinkedIn Hack With MySpace Hack - http://qntra.net/2016/06/social-media-warrior-follows-linkedin-hack-with-myspace-hack/
pete_dushenski: and with that, i bid ye all bon nuit.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 533.31, vol: 12418.16647760 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 517.222, vol: 10519.99461 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 532.26, vol: 49760.11601346 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 455.0, vol: 1.82928901 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 543.232375, vol: 63239.94720000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 531.0, vol: 3002.40188254 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 517.127325, vol: 97.8838307 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 536.167687602
BingoBoingo: RIP Spread
mircea_popescu: lol gribble deluges.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform looking good.
mircea_popescu: maybe credits should be its own entry on the top bar ? minor point tho
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473683 << this is a deeply idiotic measurement. what you can't find me is a nigger that's happy with his life. that's the fucking criteria.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:50 asciilifeform: for instance, even mircea_popescu does not seem to be able to find me a phuctor box that will stay up
mircea_popescu: that obama is going around in cheap suits and gets more crowded at dinner than your average 1916 workman is the fucking criteria.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:56 diana_coman: life costs quite a lot in itself and the more elaborate you make it basically, the higher the cost, of course
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473696 << and it will.... yet again.... not work.... and the egg will "not be on face"... and etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 15:56 asciilifeform: in other nyooz, http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36412487 << buterin's waterfall to extinguish rising exchange rate just in time !
mircea_popescu: for all the "cost to us", seems teh cost to you is so far minimal eh! just point an' laugh!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473708 << note that renaissance happened roughly speaking in the sense that a bunch of bloggers, pico & co, who had developed both their taste and knowledge in a blogging sense strictly stumbled upon a cache of "things you call books today much in the way you'll call them blogs shorty - they were rolls though" which held their own ;
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 17:45 phf: there will be no great library of tmsr, but on the other hand no accumulation and exchange of amulets and fetishes of knowledge, because the last can be subverted in all kinds of ways we've seen already.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473709 << more importantly, books are fucking dumb in a structural, unyielding manner very similar to how classical antiquity was dumb in 1400 : no proper conception of theology then ; no proper conception of humanity now.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 17:49 phf: pre-80s hard bounds as a source of knowledge is a here and now sort of source, same way as pre-2005 amds, etc. not only is it a limited source, it is also unstable. a year from now, we're going to see all the fullstack developers switching to "classics library", and buying up last-known-prints on ebay for +++ bezzle dollars on ebay
mircea_popescu: you can't find a book that's not informed by either a christian or socialist notion of theosophy. neither of these are intellectually acceptable, or even digestible. the dumb will have to be washed off books before they may be instruments of human thought again. asciilifeform does not feel this because he insists on only reading an (insignificant) fraction, math is math eh.
mircea_popescu: the fate of humanity is to be this endless rat in an endless baited maze. we can't, even as we sit and mourn the dead muroid next, stuff own gullet with the same fucking pellets, now can we.
mircea_popescu: western civilisation died (again) because of its shitty books (again). not in spite of them, not unrelatedly, nothing else - BECAUSE the books were bad. it's poisoned and killed us and that comes with a fucking smithing the likes of which has never been seen
mircea_popescu: not, at least, since THE LAST FUCKING TIME THEY DID THIS.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 17:55 asciilifeform: and yes, the ~cultural institutions~ that produced my library, are dead as dodo.
mircea_popescu: "the lamp's not dead, just the mains is". mmmkay. long live the cold lamp.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473728 << i suspect this is why television ended up shit. argentines love it!
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 18:05 asciilifeform: and i imagine it must suck to be the owner of a real airplane landed on cargo cult island, it will promptly be ripped apart for parts to decorate straw planes the moment you look away
mircea_popescu: if you knew your plane would end up on cargo cult island anywya, would you bother with anything serious ?
mircea_popescu: that's how cars ended up with a dollop of hot plastic on top. "suv"s my foot. it's just ldks, for "locals don't know shit"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473729 << this was so common in romania (for some reason romanians were even MORE crazy book-militant than the ru), that a) there was a state-sponsored, official "books" edition/complete library (called "biblioteca pentru toti"). cheap paperbacks, fixed format made to fit preexisting standard shelving, decent antologies of reasonable titles. this was like you know, the prole version of "it's
mircea_popescu: ok, you may live, you have books". some were even read actually.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 18:05 phf: no, but i've seen some extensive libraries in apparatchik homes that i know for a fact nobody read
mircea_popescu: and b) all sorts of "required" items for the you know, "upper crust" which every aparatchick aspired to parvene to. they were rather meticulous, effectual sorts of people, and well informed, and consequently if you visited (which was common) and someone asked, "so what books does he have ?" you'd answer "everything." and they'd know what you meant.
mircea_popescu: i don't think they had actually figured out by the end of the 80s that "everything" is a bad sort of books to have.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473738 <<< my dear man. over one thousand gallons ?! think for a moment, the floating deathstar was burning a gallon every other second ? how did you stand the heat ?
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 18:09 phf: apparently those things are really expensive to run. i used to go on potomac with Georgetown liesure boat crowd, and short, 1-2 hour runs, would cost ~~3k in gas, and that was 8-10 years ago
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474047 << thanks you two, now i'm lost in reading old trilema o.O
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 03:09 BingoBoingo: In other old trilema http://trilema.com/2013/the-title-is-in-the-pudding/
shinohai: wb Herr Popescu
shinohai: ;;later tell pete_dushenski I'll see if BB can correct said oversight, thanks!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: how goes ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474053 << lmao check it out, napoleon iii pretension lives through the colonies! which are illiterate still!
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 05:05 ben_vulpes: so pediwikia claims that du chatelet is actually the postulator of the total energy constraint?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474078 << notrly, lost interest after unknown addressed "her ceo" as "jeremy". they're obviously misrepresenting their private relationship, and i have no interest in participating in the banal scenes of fat anglo derps.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 17:38 asciilifeform: read like mircea_popescu wrath fodder
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474087 << looky here, people depositing their "10k usd coupon" from the employer with real estate bezzletron aren't buying anything or paying anything.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 18:00 asciilifeform: trinque: the folks payin' $10k/mo for a 1room flat ?
mircea_popescu: when communism ended they gave the herd "coupons" to "privatize" the various busnesses by "subscription". the process of "subscribing" these coupons made nobody an investor.
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://dpaste.com/1YZ90BF
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474264 << that's nice, but doesn't the beloved cramer-shoup also use hashes? their scheme, to quote, "requires a universal one-way hash function"
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:45 asciilifeform: i never really liked the idea of a hash.
Framedragger: though a "hash-free variant" appears to be possible, so maybe there's that; need to check.
Framedragger: (their "proof of security" assumes the hash function is truly one-way)
Framedragger: (heh they even suggest sha-1 for the hash function, though this is from an olden paper, so.)
Framedragger: (their "hybrid implementation" assumes a good symmetric-key cipher..)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: there is a hash-free variant.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: but i ought to emphasize for n00bs, cramer-shoup is merely the healthiest horse at this glue factory.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: yeah i've got to that section, interesting, gonna slowly parse it
Framedragger: any particular preferences on your part asciilifeform ?
a111: Logged on 2016-02-26 01:34 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-02-2016#1415667 << it appears to have been the first (and to date, only other in public) system that is immune to chosen-ciphertext crapolade
asciilifeform: Framedragger: you still don't get it, do you
asciilifeform: c-s beats rsa only in that it is provably resistant to chosen-ciphertext attack
Framedragger: please no appeals to teh coming empire
asciilifeform: and hence does not require voodoo games with 'padding' etc.
asciilifeform: it STILL, just like all other publicly known asymmetric cryptosystems, relies on a mathematical trap door of UNPROVEN hardness.
Framedragger: that's fair. ok. i assume you don't think much of OAEP (i see it mentioned in the logz but only just)
asciilifeform: it sucks donkey balls.
asciilifeform: (and i will add that no public implementation wrote it correctly, either.)
asciilifeform: an adult asymmetric (or symmetric, for that matter) cryptosystem would rely on a mathematical problem of PROVEN complexity class (e.g., np-complete)
asciilifeform: i personally dug up every publicly accessible resource i could think of, where such a unicorn might live, and found none.
asciilifeform: all we have is a) otp, trivially proven to be impenetrable, high school level exercise b) everything else, being snake oils of varying degrees of toxicity, with c-s being the least noxious known to me presently.
asciilifeform: understand that the 'hardness' of all known (and perhaps even any possible) hashes is just as unproven as that of, e.g., aes.
asciilifeform: it is purely an exercise in 'this stumps me, ergo it is cryptographically hard'
Framedragger: yeah i know the latter, i thought there were additional reasons for preferring c-s here. ok.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: it is merely a variant of elgamal
asciilifeform: but with this twist.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474367 << mircea_popescu pounded in this nail, yes
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 10:21 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473683 << this is a deeply idiotic measurement. what you can't find me is a nigger that's happy with his life. that's the fucking criteria.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474379 << i never said to preserve the christian crapola or any other other astrologies.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 10:30 mircea_popescu: you can't find a book that's not informed by either a christian or socialist notion of theosophy. neither of these are intellectually acceptable, or even digestible. the dumb will have to be washed off books before they may be instruments of human thought again. asciilifeform does not feel this because he insists on only reading an (insignificant) fraction, math is math eh.
asciilifeform read quite a few things but KEEPS AROUND only the thing worth keeping around...
Framedragger: asciilifeform: hmh i guess https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle%E2%80%93Hellman_knapsack_cryptosystem is np-complete, pity it's broken
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474390 << these are 'books' in the same sense that american 'house' is a house, etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 10:56 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-30#1473729 << this was so common in romania (for some reason romanians were even MORE crazy book-militant than the ru), that a) there was a state-sponsored, official "books" edition/complete library (called "biblioteca pentru toti"). cheap paperbacks, fixed format made to fit preexisting standard shelving, decent antologies of reasonable titles. this was like you know, the prol
asciilifeform: Framedragger: if it's broken, it ain't a cryptosystem now it. in that SOLVING it doesn't prove p==np for fuck's sake.
asciilifeform: THINK ABOUT IT
Framedragger: child the fuck down
Framedragger: *chill
Framedragger: but of course, true.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474405 << in small american co it is typical for everyone, from ceo to mute mexican janitor, to be 'first-named'
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 11:26 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474078 << notrly, lost interest after unknown addressed "her ceo" as "jeremy". they're obviously misrepresenting their private relationship, and i have no interest in participating in the banal scenes of fat anglo derps.
asciilifeform: and yes, this was not so in 1940, or perhaps even 1970, but was so through my whole working life.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 11:27 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474087 << looky here, people depositing their "10k usd coupon" from the employer with real estate bezzletron aren't buying anything or paying anything.
asciilifeform: from this thread we get a trivial definition of adult cryptosystem: provably unbreakable unless complexity classes collapse.
asciilifeform: (not that otp is unbreakable even in ~this~ case.)
asciilifeform: *note that!
asciilifeform: note that otp is unbreakable even in ~this~ case.)
asciilifeform: this is - so far - a null set.
Framedragger: not to rain on the parade (not that i could), but isn't it possible such a thing won't ever be found? http://stackoverflow.com/a/3654889
asciilifeform: entirely possible!
asciilifeform: universe didn't ship with a warranty
asciilifeform: it is even possible that we will never see a proof of whether it exists to be found.
asciilifeform: but interestingly no 'respectable' cryptographer is even TRYING, afaik.
Framedragger: well systems which assume "worst case" assumption vs. "random instances" of problem are perhaps better. see end of that answer
Framedragger: s/assumption/instances/
asciilifeform: how do you PROVE that a particular instance is not trivially heuristicable ?
Framedragger: heristicable = heuristically solvable?
asciilifeform: this is sorta like the boojum in rsa, where generating a ~good~ key is nontrivial
Framedragger: guess you can't, hence yes, problem
asciilifeform: solvable in polynomial time.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474385 << mircea_popescu whole point is that ~my particular lamp~ is still glowing. (i recently bought one of them tritium lamps, it is a good analogy for this actually)
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 10:50 mircea_popescu: "the lamp's not dead, just the mains is". mmmkay. long live the cold lamp.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu socialistoid idiocy comes from lizard brain, not from b00kz. (though it can appear therein)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: or what, the incas read marx and lenin before building their kolhoz ?
asciilifeform: lel zombie speaks!
asciilifeform: hell, andreas a still talks
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu apparently needs a better killing jar ? his butterflies are still flyin'
shinohai: Maybe a more ptent solution of chloroform is in order.
shinohai: *potent
asciilifeform: 'I invite capable programmers from anywhere, including China, to help any of the teams working on open source Bitcoin software, whether that is Classic or Core or Unlimited or bitcore or btcd or ckpool or p2pool or bitcoinj.'
asciilifeform: 'i will help to connect anyone working on undermining bitcoin with like-minded useful idiots!'
shinohai: My sides.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's the doctrine, somehow, no matter how badly they get battered they can't give the shit up.
asciilifeform: hola seƱor popescu !
mircea_popescu: it's all in "working together" blabla.
Framedragger actually liked when reading some marx, at least volume 1 of das kapital. lenin can be discarded, save for learning from history or whatever (or that).
Framedragger: s/or that/if that/
mircea_popescu: $google james giffen
deedbot hands you a broomstick.
mircea_popescu: eh really!
mircea_popescu: anyway, thought asciilifeform'd appreciate the story, if not known already.
mircea_popescu: one of the lulziest cases in the history of the us district kangaroocourts.
asciilifeform: lol nazarbaev?!
trinque: huh, must be a timeout thing
trinque: $google james giffen
deedbot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Giffen << James Giffen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://foreignpolicy.com/2010/11/19/was-james-giffen-telling-the-truth/ << Was James Giffen telling the truth? | Foreign Policy | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhgate << Kazakhgate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform guy's been all over everything cia for a coupla decades.
trinque: fuggin leaky tubes
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474102 << very hard to argue with his guess.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 18:05 BingoBoingo: She's a transplant to the bay area failing to afford it. Likely a female to mayo transgender with asperzorsations of leaving Ohio behind.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 18:33 asciilifeform: chick is 25 yo
Framedragger: why in the fuck did she move to SF given the rent prices. this is truly perplexing.
trinque: because it was her dream to ...
trinque falls asleep
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474135 << nah, it'll be a lcd and an army of bulgarian nurses to run by the houses of everyone who thinks the opposite and flip them over the head.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 18:50 asciilifeform: for instance, i'm about to buy moar display. it will be an lcd. but if mircea_popescu buys another display, it won't be lcd, it'll be a thing where a gurl flips pixels manually.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger nobody gives these kids any clear signals. their great-grandparents went "bitch, you're gonna marry the first guy with a pulse and make me two nephews!" which was maybe excessive.
mircea_popescu: but today, the parents go "oh, everything, blablabla". this is not useful.
mircea_popescu: so the moment they pick the vaguest of signals, they're there.
Framedragger: yeah, i've been prone to this, too, but luckily by applying some "heuristic human computronium" a.k.a. common sense no truly stupid tragedies happened.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474137 << i can readily see that. even adjusting mentally for "he dun know the half of it!"
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 18:52 ben_vulpes: a friend of mine recently broke up with his girl of 4+ years, and i realized during conversation about his new dating adventures and the kinds of women he was encountering that i would have patience for approximately zero reeducation at this point in my life.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger no, it's just luck, there's no rational solution out of the problem. see http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/ for the discussion if haven't already.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474158 << actually, these same ones will np.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:01 asciilifeform: young chix are programmable, they would just as happily 'great is the prophet muhammad' if born elsewhere.
asciilifeform: sure, after you reflash'em
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474162 << this is the fundamental point of womanhood ever since you know, "common sense" added "poverty laws" to the common law.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:01 trinque: because I am here
mircea_popescu: "i am here ; therefore". and which it is why it needs absolutely no reflashing either asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: if tomorrow muhammad offers a gram more petrocheese / unit time than usg.yelp.ceo.my, she's gone.
asciilifeform: well somebody gotta load 'muhammed' into the register instead of 'demoocracy'
trinque: hm, I see it
mircea_popescu: to the victor - goes the nagging.
asciilifeform: yeah but petrocheese is a peculiarly demoocratic bait. muhammed has other bait.
mircea_popescu: cheapness is its own quality.
mircea_popescu: and muhammad gave its believers much petro anyway.
mircea_popescu: and make no mistake about it, she'll pen diatribes to the mujahedeen about how tamara down the street got two inches more silk headdress or w/e
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:01 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i enjoy the company of adults, not children
asciilifeform: she will also write to kgb.... or do i have my continents crossed.
mircea_popescu: and she did!
mircea_popescu: and to teh gestapo, and in general, she's got a vocal vulvular valvule an' is not affraid to use it!
asciilifeform: the traditional player here is ~old~ woman tho
asciilifeform: complete with yappy-dog.
mircea_popescu: notrly. old means many things, and here means "no longer sexually interesting to men"
mircea_popescu: ustards achieve this by 19.
asciilifeform: this was iirc one of the points of disagreement in thread, i saw photo, she was plenty interesting
asciilifeform: (none of you lot concur ?!)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474179 << nothing could be further from teh truth. with some regularity mp has to punish multi-year supposed experts for basic training items such as "who the fuck said you may leave". the equivalent'd be a research lab where one has to explain the criteria of divisibility with 2 and 5 to the research leaders.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:04 asciilifeform: eh iirc mircea_popescu flies these in and reprogramms them to spec in days.
shinohai: $s Melissa Bruninga-Matteau
a111: 1 results for "Melissa Bruninga-Matteau", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=Melissa%20Bruninga-Matteau
mircea_popescu: i can't be arsed to look at some medium photos.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: research lab where one has to explain the criteria of divisibility with 2... <<< aaaaaaaaand guess where i worked !
asciilifeform: and hey, general curtis lemay had to have 'no smoking' sign in airfield explained.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474184 << good to know this is how that'll go eh ?
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:07 asciilifeform: hey, when the man is asleep ~somebody~'s gotta proffer the pineapple!111
mircea_popescu: i already shudder at the thought of what my statue'll look like when i'm asleep.
asciilifeform: giant pineapple, i expect!1111
asciilifeform: holding broomstick.
asciilifeform: (on dirigible.)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474190 << in fairness, not EVERYONE aims to do things of that nature.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:09 phf: none do, a working machine ~always~ has signs of its master's works
mircea_popescu: no-serviceable-parts-inside hammer still works acceptably for all manner of people not making it their business to do complicated things with metals in surfaces
asciilifeform: ever meet a bloke whose hammers are red with rust ?
asciilifeform: they think 'no serviceable parts...' aha.
asciilifeform: there is really no such thing as the tool that 'just worx!1111'
mircea_popescu: tis a complicated discussion to properly have.
asciilifeform: verily.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, it's always hard to get past the little voice whispering at one that he's important, but : what makes you think you'd know what to adjust ?
mircea_popescu: were you in adjust school ? where, war ? killed enough people to now known how they tick ? or where exactly, that was true, and truthful, and you paid attention.
asciilifeform: most folks are 'chukcha ain't a reader, he's a writer' and do it anyway.
mircea_popescu: well, yeah, and plenty of girls have the scars to show it.
mircea_popescu: odd that this doesn't occur to you as the obvious answer to the whole "gold brick" bs. "oh, why doesn't mouse go down THIS tunnel!" "because there's a barb at the entrance and it stepped on it" "what barb ?!?!" "there" "oh, that ? that's just a barb!"
asciilifeform: i just find it hard to see young chix as legitimately-i-have-nothing-at-all poor.
mircea_popescu: but this is ~mysoginy.
asciilifeform: fact remains. she has assetz.
mircea_popescu: so do you.
asciilifeform: not within order of magnitude.
trinque: there's nothing to envy about being owned.
asciilifeform: trinque: did you bother to ask the owned ?
mircea_popescu: and there the problem starts : given the same sack of whatever pounds' worth selected from the city dump, two different people will not make the same item, same order "lists of assets".
trinque: asciilifeform: who would ask them? that's the point
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the solution is called 'market', no ?
mircea_popescu: trinque ~same as there's to envy about having been born again or w/e, having found one's religion, calling, life, hapiness, w/e.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. a market exists when people make the same lists but order them differently.
mircea_popescu: when they don't make the same lists a market's impossible, which is why britain must "civilize" the world before it can be a "trade empire".
asciilifeform: pointedly not. plutonium is worth $-maxint (to the point that they would pay to have it removed from their house) to most folks. because not in their list. but on market - $maxint.
mircea_popescu: before it manages that, it's a shitty island on the side of the great faith empire of a man on whose dominions sun never sets.
asciilifeform: it is enough to find 1 buyer who has the sack of rubbish on his list. for it to have market worth.
mircea_popescu: not what was said.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: elaborate re 'different lists' vs 'same lists, ordered differently'
mircea_popescu: what was said was that for as long as you value the S for a, worth z, and for b, worth x, whereas she values the sack FOR THE SAME a, worth y and for the same b, worth x, then therer can be a market.
mircea_popescu: but without those meetings of the minds, there isn't a market, just chaos.
asciilifeform: ah, this.
mircea_popescu: well so sure, but then the market isn't "a magical solution from god for all the crazy dangerous shit i don't want to have to deal with".
asciilifeform: tru. for some things - no market.
mircea_popescu: and for the things where market - enjoy your corn syrup, the market chosen solution.
asciilifeform: until if and when somebody conceives of how to reprocess them into saleable recycled feedstock.
mircea_popescu: let's walk together through the history of this fine "market" thing, if we shall. so, it solved "the problem of feeding people", with hfcs. nice. and before that, it solved "the problem of trading in china". with opium. and before that...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in usa, there is saying 'market is not invisible hand, but a tentacle - sometimes, rapes'
mircea_popescu: a market is a poor substitute of either foreign policy or governmental theology.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform would you believe that i quit, never to return, an assembly of esteemable finance heads when in congress they didn't agree, nor couldn't understand, why exactly "to split any item to two parties : one cuts, the other picks" is not only equitable, but the only equitable method so much so any other method is derived from it, and equitable only in as much as it's similar.
mircea_popescu: that there's your market, entirely. one cuts, antoher picks. it only works in that context.
asciilifeform: hey it's how my brother and i split candy bars as children.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what the fuck they do to them in school anymore.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:36 asciilifeform: for instance, i used to be able to read the log by hitting 'reload'
asciilifeform: in www browsers
a111: Logged on 2016-05-29 14:21 mircea_popescu: and that finally there is absolutely no reason to implement arbitrary division in the machine, nor does such idiocy exist in nature ; that the correct machine representation of numbers is FRACTIONS not fucking "decimals", and that computers that natively support bignum up to the size of memory and execute gcd in hardware aren't either particularly hard to make nor their absence to date excusable.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:46 asciilifeform: this is 'minsky's dark room' all over again.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see thread from this morning. hashes suck in exactly the way aes sucks.
mircea_popescu: the same sort of thinking informs it everywhere, and it's that sight most loathed in nature, the mental squid of an engineer!
mircea_popescu: anyway, how's reload not work ? i been using it unknowingly ;/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: previous to last night, phf's 'last' link dropped you in an anchored point in time. which, when reloaded, will give you that log page eternally, even if new ones exist.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474274 << deeply don't, gpg with sym key is liek... mmmkay.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 19:50 Framedragger: aha, then i guess you don't really enjoy the fact that gpg uses aes for session key actually? :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform oh that's how you meant. i just reload a current page, yeah.
mircea_popescu: shinohai what the hell's the logic there.
shinohai: It's ok for the USof A to collectively punish people, but not N Korea, etc ?
mircea_popescu: so what's the logic, "this guy pissed us off, his FAMILY therefore must not get reimbursed for losing teh means of support etc" ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474626 << su had a judicial sentence 'with confiscation of property', which was routinely employed, and included ~all~ property of the condemned. usa presently does not have such a sentence - it has 'proceeds and instruments of the crime', and 'restitution', which amount to ~same thing. and soon will be == de jure.
shinohai: This will be attempt to set said precedent
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except the life insurance payout is not the guy's.
asciilifeform: it is his estate's
asciilifeform: the precedent is re estate of dead criminal
mircea_popescu: mno, actually, it specifies whose it is.
mircea_popescu: usually wife.
mircea_popescu: the life policy carries a stated beneficiary
asciilifeform: wife went postal with him iirc.
mircea_popescu: which never is THE DEAD BLOKE
mircea_popescu: ah so the plot deepthickens.
asciilifeform: presumably 'next of kin'.
mircea_popescu: well, whatever it may be, not his in any case.
shinohai: iirc they had children?
mircea_popescu: o it's pretty thick, "terrorists must not be permitted to provide".
mircea_popescu: it is ACTUALLY literally a bill of attainder.
mircea_popescu: "terrorist"
shinohai: Ah yes, child is in custody of CPS in California.
asciilifeform: it isn't even a mega-leap, judicially, these folks knew they were going to meet allah, hence for insurance purposes can be 'suicide'
shinohai: Will be raised in re-education camp
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474330 <<< sooo... copy tmsr items, "launch" them, ??? profit... why are these webdicklets so derpy anyway.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-31 23:33 shinohai: Judging from the flurry of messages I'm getting I think I triggered someone.
asciilifeform: ^ this was the umpteenth copy of deedbot, also
asciilifeform: how many now ?
mircea_popescu can already picture the kid in question, 19 yo pakistani with a few online freelancing projects under his belt "spreading out" etc.
shinohai: Final count was like 13 messages and 5 PM's just because I pointed out tmsr did it first. Props to deedbot
shinohai: The best was the `no 'Web of Trust' needed` comment. He refused to read the relevant trilema article that I sent him obviously.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474338 << dude what the everloving shit, you heat on electricity in fucking canada ?!
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 03:16 deedbot: [Ā» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Infinity shades of solar, an erotic analysis. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/05/31/infinity-shades-of-solar-an-erotic-analysis/
mircea_popescu: moreover, you heat on a .5 kwh/sq foot basis ?! this article is too mysterious for me.
mircea_popescu: shinohai "buy these prized aquarium fish. no heads!"
asciilifeform: hey, sprats!1111
asciilifeform examines his spratuary, it is nearly empty
mircea_popescu: what you keep them live ?!
mircea_popescu: swimming in liquid smoke lol.
asciilifeform: ^ but i've always wanted this!11111
mircea_popescu: so electricity is like, <4 cent / kwh commercial in alberta ? who the hell knew, that's pretty good mining pricing neh ?
mircea_popescu: and so the matter settled : what started on may 25th as a slight disparity between the usg faux bitcoin exchanges trading at 448 (bitfinex isn't inclued here, having nothing to do with bitcoin altogether) while btcchina was reporting 455 (and 2/3 of the total volume), eventually peaked out at 510/580 (with btcchina still doing 2/3 of the volume) and eventually settled at 530/540. the moral that "you should have yielded rather
mircea_popescu: than fought, yelps" is yet again obvious, and for the hundredeth or so time will pass unheeded, i guess.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 14:02 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1474264 << that's nice, but doesn't the beloved cramer-shoup also use hashes? their scheme, to quote, "requires a universal one-way hash function"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474432 << eh, the public has to yet write anything correctly.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 14:09 asciilifeform: (and i will add that no public implementation wrote it correctly, either.)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474455 << and in goatfucklandia it is common for everyone to fuck a goat. what of it.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 14:19 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474405 << in small american co it is typical for everyone, from ceo to mute mexican janitor, to be 'first-named'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474465 << the republic seeks not so as to find, but so as to make.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 14:24 Framedragger: not to rain on the parade (not that i could), but isn't it possible such a thing won't ever be found? http://stackoverflow.com/a/3654889
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: merely point out that the "root layer of the universe structure" may be a blocker on this bug. but the root layer has needed a paddlin' anyway..
Framedragger: *pointing out
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474465 << god the fucking baiting you do.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 14:24 Framedragger: not to rain on the parade (not that i could), but isn't it possible such a thing won't ever be found? http://stackoverflow.com/a/3654889
mircea_popescu: so some officious schmuck wants me to read "the section on wikipedia" where a set of snakeoil salesmen discuss their imaginary snake oil properties ? the glbgbblglbvrhl!
asciilifeform: i have been to where they juice the cobras.
asciilifeform: it was stomach-turning.
Framedragger: so wikipedia sux and sometimes you need to glance at it, the way a hasty businessman glances at a dubitable street food stand in a foreign city. sometimes the temporary "before pgp xamarin something" solution is to glance at that damn wikipedia. what of it
asciilifeform: the 'cryptographers', my shiny metal arse.
Framedragger: (i sounded more literary in my mind)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger chiefly, that it isn't. i posit that nothing good or useful can come of some kid at rutger's self importantly answering questions on a website because some 17 yo kid who thinks himself too cool for his ohio highschool asked a dumb question with the usual smattering of wikipedia his teachers usually A him for.
mircea_popescu: now let's go at it with examples :
mircea_popescu: "Note the "random instances" part. For a concrete example, we might assume that no polynomial-time algorithm exists for factoring the product of two random n-bit primes with some good probability. This is very different (less safe) from assuming that no polynomial-time algorithm exists for always factoring all products of two random n-bit primes."
mircea_popescu: a) not concrete b) what "some good" c) he mixed up all/never.
asciilifeform: cases of folks stepping on this caltrop abound
asciilifeform: i.e. problems np-complete in the general case, but very much p in ~every known instance.
mircea_popescu: but yes, what he's trying to copy was originally correct : the problem with cryptosystems is that even if they "reference" an actual hard problem, they don't get to stand in for the fucking problem itself! they pick a case, and we've no good hardness measurers for mere cases.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform word.
Framedragger: i don't think 'c)' obtains? no mix-up there. otherwise, sure, blergh re. a) and b)
asciilifeform: if you could prove what is called 'flat keyspace', you can work as if every key you select requires same work to break.
asciilifeform: (an no this has not been done for any extant system other than otp)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger it should have read " This is very different (less safe) from assuming that no polynomial-time algorithm exists for any factoring of any products of two random n-bit primes."
asciilifeform: ^ the hilarious bit is that we are smashing 'randomly selected n-bit primes' every day now
asciilifeform: because 'randomly' is not good enough.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the even more hilarious bit is that there just aren't THAT MANY primes to make different keys of a specified size.
asciilifeform: not so.
asciilifeform: $s prime number theorem
a111: 1 results for "prime number theorem", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=prime%20number%20theorem
asciilifeform: there's a hell of a lot.
mircea_popescu: let's quantify this hell of a lot together.
Framedragger: hm. *this* (i.e.: that "no polynomial-time algorithm exists for factoring the product of two random n-bit primes with some good probability") *is* less safe as compared to the safer assumption that "no polynomial-time algorithm exists forĀ alwaysĀ factoringĀ allĀ products of two random n-bit primes". this is a much safer assumption cf. to the one you interpreted it to mean, no? (no baiting this time - just honestly confused). but eh, may
mircea_popescu: are there more than possible combinations of 6 character passwords ?
Framedragger: "was a terrible answer tho)" (fuckin irc)
asciilifeform: more of what ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform distinct prime pairs that make a 4kb key
asciilifeform: take legendre's approximation, or chebyshev's, and see.
mircea_popescu: 2^2049/ln(2^2049) - 2^2047/ln(2^2047)
mircea_popescu: /2 but w/e.
asciilifeform: a clearer approach would be to state this in terms of how many bits of entropy, such that is used in generating key, are de facto discarded by the nextprime() op.
asciilifeform: (in the sense that K possible bitstrings could end up at the given nextprime())
mircea_popescu: more sensible yes.
mircea_popescu: point reimains, quite far from "flat keyspace" in this particular sense.
asciilifeform: that isn't the keyspace.
asciilifeform: keyspace is the space of all possible ~actual keys we might end up with~ at the end of proper key generation.
asciilifeform: and the work required to break each.
asciilifeform: (raw n-bit string that hasn't been fed to nextprime() nor the other tests, is not a key!)
mircea_popescu: well, you could consider pair-of-primes as the key.
asciilifeform: pair of properly selected primes.
asciilifeform: not otherwise.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger : he says : "1. Assume no X exists for F-ing any A's with b ; 2. Assume no X exists for F-ing all A's with b ; 1 is safer than 2." and he is wrong.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474482 << and what else, zig ziggler invented marketing ? stupidity is perennial, and not really worthy of nominal exercises.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 14:36 asciilifeform: or what, the incas read marx and lenin before building their kolhoz ?
asciilifeform: point was, it is not 'from old books'
mircea_popescu: marx needs a name like my turds need individual id papers.
asciilifeform: lose the books, lose 0 stupidity, and ~all shit worth actually knowing.
mircea_popescu: they're still dead, irrespective how inconvenient that may turn out to be!
asciilifeform: greece is dead and full of goat fuckers, does not cancel aristotle.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474486 << i'm the worst killer in history ;/
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 14:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu apparently needs a better killing jar ? his butterflies are still flyin'
mircea_popescu: or, to quote seinfeld,
mircea_popescu: "She does stink and she should quit. But I don't want it to be because of me. It should be the traditional route; years of rejections and failures till she's spit out the bottom of the porn industry."
mircea_popescu: omaigerd caught on logs. win.
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, jp about to drop $100B of printolade.
mircea_popescu: We consider the possibility of basing one-way functions on NP-Hardness; that is, we study possible reductions from a worst-case decision problem to the task of average-case inverting a polynomial-time computable function f. Our main findings are the following two negative results:
mircea_popescu: If given y one can efficiently compute |f^-1(y)| then the existence of a (randomized) reduction of NP to the task of inverting f implies that coNP āŠ† AM. Thus, it follows that such reductions cannot exist unless coNP āŠ† AM.
mircea_popescu: For any function f, the existence of a (randomized) non-adaptive reduction of NP to the task of average-case inverting f implies that coNP āŠ† AM.
mircea_popescu: the f^-1 approach being actually pretty sensible.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: this is super unimportant but under your analysis, he says that 2 is safer than 1. you claim that 1 is safer than 2. should be inverted, methinks. (the "(less safe)" refers to 1, not to 2.)
Framedragger: (thanks for bearing with me, and i'm off home). i leave you with http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4092
Framedragger: s/you claim that/you claim that he claims that/
Framedragger: jesus wtf am i doing
mircea_popescu: yeah, /me drops this point
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is quite like those 1980s papers about star drives
asciilifeform: we haven't the f.
asciilifeform: nor any path to the f.
mircea_popescu: yes, but if one proposes a f, doing the inverse just to see what happens is a good approach.
asciilifeform: whole notion of hash is that 'do the inverse' is hard.
asciilifeform: and point of thread was 'no one has shown with any degree of rigour whatsoever, ~how~ hard'
asciilifeform: it is 100% exactly the same case as in symmetric cipherdom.
asciilifeform: 'aes is hard to break' 'says who' 'says me, i haven't broken it yet'
mircea_popescu: fine, state it like this : when someone proposes a hash, see if you can find a y for which the reverse is trivial.
asciilifeform: sure. but my inability to do so says NOTHING about its hardness. only about how MY PARTICULAR hands grow out from my arse.
asciilifeform: that's the basic boojum of crypto as practiced by extant 'cryptographers'.
asciilifeform: btw when i went down into the snakepit with several dozen renowned 'cryptographers' earlier this year, i asked a few folks about this.
asciilifeform: got the ENTIRELY unsurprising 'what, you're a martian?' stare back.
asciilifeform: one woman offered me a candy bar.
asciilifeform: it is in the l0gz somewhere
mircea_popescu: what's the candy bar to do
asciilifeform: dunno. but that was the response.
asciilifeform: 'stfu, monkey', must be.
a111: Logged on 2014-06-11 00:48 asciilifeform: 'Sacco and Vanzetti came up with an entirely different solution to the slow-MMU problem, one which if I do say so myself was less imaginative than mine, but both more general and more practical. They published theirs in a real conference, received much acclaim for it, and I believe patented it, started a so-called company and eventually sold it to Microsoft.'
a111: Logged on 2014-06-11 00:49 asciilifeform: 'Which, in fact, I had. Because I'd essentially told him his research was fraudulent. The fact that my research was also fraudulent, and that neither of ours was particularly noteworthy in that regard, did not matter. And why should it? Others' crimes cannot excuse your own.'
a111: Logged on 2014-06-11 00:49 asciilifeform: 'My Navrozov moment, of course, was when I approached one of the two - Sacco, I think - and attempted to have an intellectual discussion of this realization. The story is basically the same as Navrozov's, so it would be boring to repeat, but basically I came away with the feeling that I'd told someone his Sicilian grandmother liked to get drunk and fuck her own goats.'
a111: Logged on 2014-06-11 00:49 asciilifeform: 'At some point during this period, however, I realized that the entire problem was a complete and utter pseudo-problem. ... So I am very confident that neither of these techniques, neither mine nor Sacco and Vanzetti's, has ever been used in practice. There is no need for them, there has never been any need for them, and there will never be any need for them. And this was quite obvious in 1993.'
asciilifeform: damn a111
asciilifeform: where is my DETERMINISTIC barf?!
asciilifeform: or is it backwards?
mircea_popescu: backwards apparently.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so here's what i'm thinking : obviously the equivocation between "NP hard" in the sense of "it is not proven this set is empty of NP hard edges" and NP hard in the sense of "this set CONSISTS of NP-hard elements" is bad for crypto.
asciilifeform: poor specification (and moreover deceitful sleigh-of-hand from the usual suspects) is bad for crypto.
mircea_popescu: but now take something like... an irrational numeration base. take for instance something like (1+sqrt(5))/2, which is... practically binary!
asciilifeform: Nyooz at 11!
mircea_popescu: wouldn't this fit the more useful later definition ?
asciilifeform: base does nothing.
mircea_popescu: well, it does as much as guarantee if your string is finite you're operating on an irrational.
asciilifeform: and what of this ?
mircea_popescu: you recall earlier discussion re summation of irrationals lemme dig it up
asciilifeform: i recall there was thread where mircea_popescu suggested the use of nonstandard bases to frustrate enemy per 'specificity of diddling' principle.
asciilifeform: this has ~nothing to do with provably placing transform's inversion into a complexity class.
mircea_popescu: nono, we were discussing hard problems and i pointed out the russian guy with the addition
mircea_popescu: we went through a bunch of examples in one sitting, but i'm not finding it nao
asciilifeform: oh, relatedly, and strangely,
asciilifeform: $s vanzetti
asciilifeform: ^ ought to have found the old l0gz
asciilifeform: and did not.
asciilifeform: i had to grep own l0gz
asciilifeform: how is this even possible.
a111: Logged on 2016-02-10 01:34 mircea_popescu: or to get back to exponential space problems : "decide first order logic propositions with real numbers, adition and comparison" is a very hard problem.
asciilifeform: except that we don't have machines that work on real numbers.
asciilifeform: just like how i can't go to my shop and machine a platonic solid.
mircea_popescu: yes, but as long as the notation is in an irrational base,
mircea_popescu: we do have in point of fact guaranteed irrational numbers.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't seem there;s going to be so much cheating here.
asciilifeform: nah, on physical machine you are working with ~representations~ of irrational numbers
asciilifeform: e.g., the symbol sqrt(2).
mircea_popescu: but of arbitrary precision.
asciilifeform: this is a pistol that shoots out the wrong end. the only one it makes life harder for is the user.
asciilifeform: not enemy cryptologist.
mircea_popescu: how do you figure ?
mircea_popescu: admittedly my thinking being that it's time to stop trying to be clever and "cheat", seeing how the only cheated to date is self.
asciilifeform: because it is actually not so hard to find, in polynomial time, that 3.1462643699419726 =~ sqrt(2)+sqrt(3).
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is more in the 'arab caesar cipher' vein, of cheating self.
mircea_popescu: no cipher's yet been discussed has it ?
asciilifeform: no, but implied !
asciilifeform: (that using peculiar bases is somehow ciphratory)
mircea_popescu: no such wonder was implied.
asciilifeform: then why fuck around with bases ?
mircea_popescu: what are you, a roman ?
mircea_popescu: for convenience.
asciilifeform: let's have the whole thing then..?
deedbot: [Qntra] Bespoke Windows Exploit On The Market - http://qntra.net/2016/06/bespoke-windows-exploit-on-the-market/
mircea_popescu: i dunno the whole thing. the observation however stands that just as there's a way to verify a number ISNT irrational, by the same way in the same manner for the same reason the reverse can also be verified. and there are indeed very hard (as it is the case here, harder than np-complete) problems to do with such numbers, arbitrarily chosen.
mircea_popescu: there seems to me there's a field to graze upon here ; without any such sillyness as "basis is cipher"
asciilifeform: well 'number isn't irrational' is something you determine from its ~definition~
mircea_popescu: in the case here, you determine it from its notation.
asciilifeform: (recall how euclid described sqrt(2))
asciilifeform: correct
mircea_popescu: this differfence is important.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> the life policy carries a stated beneficiary << AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA Welcome to USSA. Beneficiary gets life insurance policy if they took it out on deceased themselves, but otherwise in USistani brokeness many times must first pass "DOes estate have expenses test"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ridoinculous.
asciilifeform: life insurance in usa is ~wholly a scam. has been for eons.
mircea_popescu: getting back to base phi : two machine words together, 64 bit each, encode a huge chunk of cannonical phinary numbers ; and the machine wouldn't even have to know that's what it's doing.
asciilifeform: if you die 'of old age', the medical racket gets it
mircea_popescu: writing a cannonizer and an algebraic operator on this shouldn't be impossible.
mircea_popescu: what next, meh, no idea atm.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1) define 'phinary' algebra 2) ?????????????? 3) profit!111
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's well defined neh ? phi + 1 = phi^2 etc.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: usaschwitz, like all other slave empires, is ultimately powered by nondischargeable personal debt
asciilifeform: (tax, 'penalties', various alimonies, etc.)
mircea_popescu: https://oeis.org/A105165 << turns out it's actually pretty famous. famous enough for its own strings in the oeis.
phf: asciilifeform: yeah, it's in backlog, i need to make a case-insensitive version of KMP
asciilifeform: ah that was it.
asciilifeform: $s Vanzetti
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474857 <<< The sarcasm of "absolutely genuine" was lost on asciilifeform perhaps.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 18:14 asciilifeform: shinohai: http://qntra.net/2016/06/bespoke-windows-exploit-on-the-market/#comment-60243
asciilifeform: ^ $250 for piece of cardboard
asciilifeform: i even have one. big whoop.
deedbot: [Qntra] Forbes Revises Theranos CEO's Estimated Wealth To Near Zero - http://qntra.net/2016/06/forbes-revises-theranos-ceos-estimated-wealth-to-near-zero/
mircea_popescu: "The vulnerability further bypassed Microsoft Enhanced Mitigation Experience Toolkit (EMET) protections. No comments from Microsoft were available at the time of this article." for maximal lulz.
asciilifeform: winblowz local roots are not actually rare.
asciilifeform: ;;seen mats
gribble: mats was last seen in #trilema 1 week, 4 days, 20 hours, 49 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <mats> fun fact, canto people typically have soup with every meal
Framedragger: $s "war of life"
Framedragger: what was war of life? (http://trilema.com/2014/the-twinheaded-announcer-announces/ ) ? a kind of game of life with bitcoin betting
Framedragger: s/\n/?\n/
mircea_popescu: yeah, it's actually in the logs. mike_c had some theories about bitbet and how it could be better, we tried it out, on the conway cell thing. he made a very pretty looking game out of it.
Framedragger: sounds like it was fun, at least for a while!
BingoBoingo: it twas
mircea_popescu: yeah, it wasn't bad really. i guess in the end didn't gather enough momentum and we agreed to end it ; but not without regret
mircea_popescu: there must be extant screenshots somewhere
asciilifeform: iirc we even had a fella ragequit over WoL closing
mircea_popescu: was it ?
asciilifeform: last thing out of him was actually a thread at trilema, to this effect.
mircea_popescu: i recall the fellow not digesting my pointing out to him that his calls, opinions ideas etc on some topic he had nothing to do weren't interesting ; dunno what exactly the adherence was. maybe this, yeah.
mircea_popescu: aha yeah that was it
BingoBoingo: Yeah WoL was TaT's last stand though he popped up occasionally later for events like http://qntra.net/2015/10/well-connected-bezzle-health-startup-theranos-collapsing/#comment-31763
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu gonna fire up sks dump circa 2016 shortly.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474528 << goddamnit: read article; fail to parse word ('edulcorously'); realise only two google results are (1) ben_vulpes uttering the word, and (2) this trilema artcile (the following day); end up checking roots of "edulcorate" (make something more acceptable or palatable) http://imgur.com/85Iy0el
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 15:33 mircea_popescu: Framedragger no, it's just luck, there's no rational solution out of the problem. see http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/ for the discussion if haven't already.
Framedragger: "They were bored to death even with their own thoughts and dreams, bored with the attack they expected momentarily. They were bored of being bored, and too sick and tired of being bored to even consider not being boring. It's just not possible to do, it exceeds human capacity. Turns out that when confronted with the meaningless pointlessness of endlessness, the inadequacy of the muchly lauded human faculty of creativity becomes readily a
asciilifeform: in other nyooz:
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERZ!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, mod6, et al:
mod6: what up
asciilifeform: http://www.frostyplace.com/index.php?story_id=11202 << i may have found a replacement for pogo.
mod6: oooo
asciilifeform: ^ 256M ram, sata and esata, 1GB ether, fiddybux
asciilifeform: i have one here.
asciilifeform: they are available in usa through crapazon.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i would seriiosli consider http://www.2x4.ru/index.php?pid=71
asciilifeform: mod6: unlike pogo, thing is a HEAVY metal brick, with the drive on inside
asciilifeform: very impressive mechanically.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: not related to this thread
Framedragger: oh lol, oops.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: pogo is a small linuxable computer, now out of print
Framedragger: nice. ok
Framedragger: lots of logs. kk. sorry
asciilifeform: mod6: dual core incidentally.
asciilifeform: (unlike pogo)
asciilifeform: so for 2x the cost, you get ~2x the juice.
asciilifeform: the memory leak will still have to be killed though, before these can trb.
asciilifeform: thing is also sold as 'silverstone dc01'.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/ was a nice read, thanks. chance, right.
mod6: asciilifeform: awesome find, i'll take a closer look at it tonight for sure.
asciilifeform: ALSO unlike pogo, it comes with all four types of mains plug
asciilifeform: (removable heads)
asciilifeform: including the uncommon mircea_popescuine one.
asciilifeform: in the standard package, even.
asciilifeform: 'Devuan, the once devil-may-care total fork of Debian, once linked to virulent internet sexism and gamer-gate affiliated image forums by Debian Developer Russel Coker, has mulled the option of enacting a Code of Conduct when one of its female members was insulted...'
asciilifeform: ^ this was the non-systemd fork of debian, iirc.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> including the uncommon mircea_popescuine one. << sweet
asciilifeform: mod6: this thing appears to be virgin earth, in the sense that no one has afaik published serial port pinouts, etc.
asciilifeform: there is not even a close-up pcb photo
asciilifeform: (i am about to snap one, as soon as camera charges)
mod6: ok cool, any info we can get on the thing, the better.
asciilifeform: sorry'bout the duped 1st pic
asciilifeform: i also did not bother to examine the underside of mp, all of the connector pads appear to be on top
asciilifeform: and i dun feel like regreasing the cpu
asciilifeform: http://blog.livedoor.jp/hide_system/archives/2013-02-05.html << suggests that this is same board, and 1 of the 4pin pads, as usual, is tty.
mod6 looks
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: nice pics alf
asciilifeform: mod6: not terribly useful pics. the chore still remains, to probe the pins.
asciilifeform: (in case this was not clear from the pics, the thing can actually handle ~2~ sata disks - one inside box, one out)
mod6: i see that.
mod6: gige too
asciilifeform: aha, like pogo
asciilifeform: astonishingly, there is even a jumper.
mod6: turn down for wat
asciilifeform: i have nfi for wat
mod6: that for the reset button then?
asciilifeform: the empty hole appears to be for one of those bicycle lock things.
mod6: oh nm. thought they were jumpers until i zoomed in
mod6: i see that its not
mod6: next to the ethernet port chassis, the black thing looked like a jumper. the only jumper i see is next to C149
asciilifeform: yeah that's the 1.
mod6: anyway, this seems easier as one could just rip the drive out, load up the full orchastra on the disk, drop it back in and you're ready to go.
asciilifeform: easier than what ?
asciilifeform: it is same sort of box as pogo
asciilifeform: armv5, iirc
asciilifeform: it dun boot from disk, but from the 256M of flash in there.
asciilifeform: which will need to be fed with correctly-tuned rotor kernel etc.
mod6: ah, ok, wasnt sure if any flashing needed to happen
mod6: yeah, sure. arm deal.
mod6: ok, awesome
asciilifeform: not earth-shaking - before we can run on this, we pretty much have to also run on pogo
asciilifeform: because 256M will die in merely twice as long as the 128M dies in (what was it, 8 hours?)
asciilifeform: the two SEPARATE leaks that we identified will have to die.
asciilifeform: (recall, block index is RETARDEDLY kept resident in ram, being first leak)
mod6 looks
mod6: <+asciilifeform> the two SEPARATE leaks that we identified will have to die. << werd
mod6: <+asciilifeform> (recall, block index is RETARDEDLY kept resident in ram, being first leak) << yeah, getting these into `t' for the trb project will be a big main priority once i get tbot deployed.
mod6: ah sure, looks like the same board.
mod6: whats the approx cost on a deal like this? $100?
mod6: (with disk)
asciilifeform: mod6: depends how much disk you buy, neh ?
asciilifeform: also it seems to have rtc battery !
asciilifeform: bottom left hand of underside photo from last link.
asciilifeform: mod6: the test unit i showed you cost me fiddybux exactly.
asciilifeform: ~3d ago.
asciilifeform: quite likely that, like pogo, these can be had cheaper in some qty.
mod6: nice
asciilifeform: somewhere.
asciilifeform: they are not sold with disks.
asciilifeform: you gotta stuff in your own.
mod6: asciilifeform: ahhh
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474899 << it's been in use as a bona fide english term (which it is) on trilema, as the last repository of actual english (which it is). so there!
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 20:25 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474528 << goddamnit: read article; fail to parse word ('edulcorously'); realise only two google results are (1) ben_vulpes uttering the word, and (2) this trilema artcile (the following day); end up checking roots of "edulcorate" (make something more acceptable or palatable) http://imgur.com/85Iy0el
ben_vulpes: he also got the order wrong
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474921 << did i miss the part where those 20 lines were all prefixed with turns out mp's ideas about the evolution of the world were right ; and mine wrong ; and i really should chillax on the paranoia score ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 20:35 asciilifeform: so for 2x the cost, you get ~2x the juice.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474937 <<< we gonna have to wait for the book or are you putting it all on blog ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 20:53 asciilifeform: (i am about to snap one, as soon as camera charges)
a111: Logged on 2016-05-30 00:59 mircea_popescu: next ones.
mircea_popescu: motherfcuker.
mircea_popescu: he's dedicated to being indisciplined above all else.
mircea_popescu: do you know why there's no alf in russia, alf ? because they shot all of you. for this reason.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eh they'll shoot all of me here soon enuff.
asciilifeform: also the jp photo is better, use that one.
asciilifeform brb - meat
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 22:33 ben_vulpes: he also got the order wrong
Framedragger: oh, yes, i did.
ben_vulpes: it's okay
ben_vulpes: time is hard
Framedragger: wibbly-wobbly
ben_vulpes: political
Framedragger: and quite possibly run by a chinese mining cartel to boot
ben_vulpes: i was discussing implementation minutae of a timing project with my pm today
ben_vulpes: said something along the lines of "and i have completely punted on the issue of testing whether or not events happen in the right timezone for the user. the testing strategy is to set the user tz to utc, the system tz to utc, and make assertions about when events fire."
ben_vulpes: "because i do not have time before our delivery deadline to figure out the millisecond offset between utc and n number of other timezones, depending on how thoroughly we want to test this."
ben_vulpes: pm winces
ben_vulpes: "much less figure out how daylight savings time factors into the problem. and how in which timezone."
ben_vulpes: pm physically recoils, "jesus i didn't even think about that"
ben_vulpes: *million yard stare*
Framedragger: *shudders*. reminded me of this: https://qntm.org/unit
Framedragger: ah hence the 'political' term. (naggum).
ben_vulpes: no, logz.
ben_vulpes: aight maybe some naggum as well. but there are extended discussions of political time in the logs.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 20:31 asciilifeform: http://www.frostyplace.com/index.php?story_id=11202 << i may have found a replacement for pogo.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 22:34 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1474921 << did i miss the part where those 20 lines were all prefixed with turns out mp's ideas about the evolution of the world were right ; and mine wrong ; and i really should chillax on the paranoia score ?
asciilifeform: did mircea_popescu predict that other nas gadgets will be found and i - that they won't ? or sumthinglikethat?
asciilifeform: thing is only a replacement for pogo in that it does >= what pogo did and 'only' costs 2.5x moar
asciilifeform: instead of 5x
asciilifeform: (like every other known device that does >= pogo)
shinohai: Case looks to be brushed aluminum or something, appears well built.
asciilifeform: shinohai: it is ~astonishingly~ solid
asciilifeform: as in, you could crack a skull.
shinohai: "To Gavin, from tmsr" *crack*
asciilifeform: anyway it isn't a wunderwaffen, just a $50 really-nice-pogo.
asciilifeform: at least once i finally pop a shell on it.
shinohai: Do keep us apprised I may consider working one into lab budget at that price.
shinohai: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 536.22, vol: 5387.36655018 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 524.363, vol: 5771.7118 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 535.4, vol: 27767.72284591 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 455.0, vol: 0.91928901 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 544.455639, vol: 51316.58910000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 534.88, vol: 2018.13619674 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 535.98981, vol: 51.22597362 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
shinohai: ;;more
gribble: 539.779921492
BingoBoingo: $s cookie chief
shinohai: COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKIE crisp
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1475029 << it really all proceeds from discussing naggum's thing.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 23:50 ben_vulpes: aight maybe some naggum as well. but there are extended discussions of political time in the logs.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-01#1475036 << leaving aside various minor points, the large standing dispute currently is whether whatever bullshit "control technology" has or has not meaningful impact on "free computing". and you're, unrepentently to the point of denial, on the wrong side of it.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-01 23:59 asciilifeform: did mircea_popescu predict that other nas gadgets will be found and i - that they won't ? or sumthinglikethat?
mircea_popescu: that's the large thread : that whatosever shall happen, it will serve the state partly and the republic fully ; without exception and without respite but apparent and momentary.
deedbot: [Qntra] Spread Between Chinese And Other Exchanges Settles With Dollar Lower Against Bitcoin - http://qntra.net/2016/06/spread-between-chinese-and-other-exchanges-settles-with-dollar-lower-against-bitcoin/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i stand by my hypothesis. the pogos etc. are NOT workstations.
asciilifeform: and new workstations ARE unavailable.
mircea_popescu: this is ~exactly like the one where you "can't" build your blog rather than obama's platform, because "commute" or whatever the reason was.
mircea_popescu: wholly pebkac.
asciilifeform: nah that's sloth.
asciilifeform: failure to fabricate opteron in kitchen - also sloth ?
mircea_popescu: that you take the same lump of shit, make "different" (to you!) figurines out of it and then call one fred and the other alison is not substantively interesting you realise.
mircea_popescu: it might be endearing to the woman interested in you, but it says not one inch about shit.
asciilifeform: can haz concrete ? where do i get NEW workstation.
mircea_popescu: i just gave you a list of concrete.
asciilifeform: or what, workstations somehow irrelevant now in mircea_popescu's planet.
mircea_popescu: the way concrete works is you have to swallow the concrete provided, not try and invent what at the time seems like "he won't be able to provide PINK CONCRETE!111"
asciilifeform: i dun see the relevance of where i put rubbish pastebins to anything.
mircea_popescu: so you have trouble respecting your own work. fine. what of it ?
BingoBoingo: Depends on the phosphorous content of the shit? Interesting restrictions on phosphorous containing fertilizers are being placed out of concern for "water quality" at a time when "peak phosphor" is a quiet concern...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i thought phosphorus is good!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's wonderful and necessary! But... "green washing"
BingoBoingo: I mean you can skip phosphorous if you dun care that your plants develop non-retard roots.
BingoBoingo: *retard roots
shinohai: My shit glows in the dark due to high phosphorous content.
BingoBoingo: You know what thrives with low phosphorous retard roots? "Corn"
mircea_popescu: when i was growing up all sorta amateur dieteticians of the 3rd age were all liek "oh, eat that, it's good for you, has phosophorus"
BingoBoingo: Just pump all the anhydrous amonia you can into the soil, topgrowth is the only thing salable anyways.
BingoBoingo: Nevermind that some days are windy...
asciilifeform recalls when gardeners 'cheated with nitrates' and sold hypertrophied but 'inedible' produce in bazaar
asciilifeform: did they have nitrate panic in mircea_popesculand ?
mircea_popescu: now it's pretty much the "supermarket" norm innit
asciilifeform: and aha, pretty sure it is sop in usa now.
mircea_popescu: can't beat cheap.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway ; i dun specifically mean to piss on your lone-flying-fortress parade. but you gotta appreciate it's a stylistical preference for interpreting reality, rather than actual reality.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is welcome to piss, the rocketz in the parade dun care!11
mircea_popescu: i bet you whatever you want just as we sit here there's some dude flying some desk somewhere (that used to be mahogany, and used to have plants around! ahh cold war!) to whom we seem the very perennial rats
mircea_popescu: that because... well... we are.
mircea_popescu: "haven't these rednecks figured out anarchy dun work already!!11"
asciilifeform: also i dun have a porthole into Actual Reality (tm) here, only the other one.
asciilifeform: and yeah surely.
mircea_popescu: yeah you do, you just dun wanna look!
mircea_popescu: the secret i'm sharing is that there's no monogamous relationship with reality : looking at any of them nude doesn't end your relationship. with any of them.
mircea_popescu: this magic is called context by the more perverse euros.
BingoBoingo: Question of the day, how did this man not blow all his money on chumpatron before getting 2.5 acre yard https://archive.is/MeYnF
shinohai: Right in mod6 's backyard!
BingoBoingo wondering if the product applied was glyphosate or diquat
BingoBoingo: If Diquat good luck applying seed or new sod for at least a month.
shinohai: Dear Lord Sithrak, please protect me from teamviewer haxxorz
BingoBoingo: "I'll have you know it's a load bearing sock"
shinohai: inb4 asciilifeform barfing
shinohai: All those positive comments, it's like gold stars from kindergarten teacher
asciilifeform: l0l vicegrips
mod6: <+shinohai> Right in mod6 's backyard! << lol srsly
mircea_popescu: is that thing from a "mining farm" ?
asciilifeform: soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
asciilifeform: i have a shell.
asciilifeform: on ye olde piece-o-shit
shinohai: Is it turd worth polishing?
asciilifeform: is as described on box.
asciilifeform: ships with, of all things, 'fedora 12'.
shinohai: ewwww
asciilifeform: i had nfi it even existed on arm.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Indeterminate
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