Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2019-08-31 | 2019-09-02 →
lobbes: alighty, I got the "bare-bones" logotron up and running (just in test chans atm):
lobbes: still need to: 1) test a bit more 2) import data dumps 3) get bot in all of the chans
lobbes: what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly
lobbes: hint: even though the "mod_proxy" wasn't showing up via the "apache2 -M" dump, nor in my modules.d configs... it, apparently, works anyway? Idk I'm sleep deprived nao; off to bed
diana_coman: - mine is the first in the list there ( but it doesn't seem to make it to top-1k providers of blocks; no idea why though, as far as I can tell it's been chugging along nicely all this time.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-08-31 17:59:20 asciilifeform: btw : awk '{print $8}' whogave_10_20_2018-8_31_2019.txt | sort | uniq > givers.txt >> less than 200 nodez !
diana_coman: at least it scrapes through into top-500 though, lol.
jurov: !!v A837C63790FD0292E6203F894FB2179FA0554CA426E2FAE06517FB325239D9C8
deedbot: jurov paid BingoBoingo invoice 15
BingoBoingo: !Xbuy 131mn 31 1209 Wired Filthy Fiats, WU is fine but not preferred
auctionbot: Buy order # 1056 created by BingoBoingo: 1209 Wired Filthy Fiats, WU is fine but not preferred Opening: 131mn ecu Ending: 2019-09-02 12:24:44.564940 UTC (30 hours)
trinque: !Xbid 1056 131mn
auctionbot: Buy order # 1056: 1209 Wired Filthy Fiats, WU is fine but not preferred Heard: 131mn from trinque. Ending: 2019-09-02 12:24:44.564940 UTC (30 hours 47 mins)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-31 17:59:34 asciilifeform: from this log, it would imho not be a mistake to say that there are approx 200 boxen that could be described as btc nodes . the rest -- are .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-31 21:15:45 trinque: btw mircea_popescu, I'm around if you want to fire off that tx
trinque: sure thing
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-31 21:33:22 trinque: btw, spyked did you actually have a theory whereby my irc bot sits doing w/e for so long it doesn't respond to pings in time?
feedbot: << Trilema -- My weekend adventure. Including the answer to the Florimund riddle, bears, how Brasov got itself banned (but Romania altogether not just yet), assorted derisions and aspersions as well as no sexually explici
mircea_popescu: trinque, aite, lemme do it over, i don't want to pay week-old invoice in bitcoin. 5 mins.
mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 0.10432 196nBGSsr8rod8ujHNMM4NQxHshEak2pCK
mircea_popescu: good call, too, it apparently went downhill.
mircea_popescu: !!v C843C3EDAD57CBADF09B9849655F9A8590AD2665807FE81588B00FA0930C6941
mircea_popescu: aite, i take it all good
trinque: yep, sec.
mircea_popescu: in other news, man it feels gooood to write/publish a new article. i actually enjoy it way the fuck more than meeting a new girl -- on average.
trinque: holy fuck, the buildings are literally sleepy, lol.
asciilifeform: lol i was half-expecting to see ventilation shaft of fuhrerbunker somewhere in them cobblestones.
asciilifeform oddly enuff has seen 'transfagarasan' once. it was distinctly visible from plane.
mircea_popescu: it is, yeah
asciilifeform: also wondered, who and why drives there, when europistan has proper trains, cheap planes
mircea_popescu: iirc one of the best serpentine roads in the world, it's a wonder they didn't simply close it and rent it out for motorcycling events
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, people who enjoy driving
asciilifeform: evidently ! nao answered.
mircea_popescu: very hard to match the comfort of a haremcar in any plane/train etc.
mircea_popescu: though cairo-aswan sleeping car was certainly close.
asciilifeform: iirc that serpentine was built as part of 'what if war with sovok!' episode
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in utterly mindblowing meta : is a... game that... well... it simulates dating. for the people for whom the normal simulated dating apps ain't simulacrous enough, they have the next step over.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, aha, was 1970s military stuff
asciilifeform: nao, ~why~ shoemaker expected war w/ sovok, i do not know
mircea_popescu: nfi how the logic went, trivial to bomb out of existence, most of it is being bombed out of existence by yearly rains
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, whole nixon stuff in the 70s
mircea_popescu: not to mention, telling the idiots they were idiots re czech, and besides... even when gorbi took over ceausescu saw him more like an inept son figure than anythign
mircea_popescu: ie, romanians never thought very much of russkis. nfi why and wherefore, but it's a historical fact. making their current thinking the world of ustards even more shocking.
asciilifeform: iirc was connected w/ ro cp aligning w/ chinese line ( 'hrusch's speech at 20th party congress - betrayal of ideals!11' etc )
mircea_popescu: possibly.
mircea_popescu: in any case -- the only good army in the country (4th transylvania, stationed around cluj and made up of you know, mountain folk) kinda away from bucharest
mircea_popescu: the logical move'd have been to take capital to brasov, but w/e.
asciilifeform still has a chinese, circa '70 or so, towel, hanging, bought by ancestors in trip to ro. they're ~eternal.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a++ bear btw. ( supposedly there is a bear in east usa, but i've never seen. even the 1 in the zoo, seems to have died 20y ago )
mircea_popescu: this is one of a bunch, actually. we even saw a hedgehog cross the road towards sunset
mircea_popescu: what i mean : multiple bear sightings. this one just managed to film
asciilifeform: seems like bear's country, eh. ( is there even anyffin man-made in those parts , other than that autobahn ? )
mircea_popescu: yep, major bear country.
mircea_popescu: and... um, sure. like, food.
asciilifeform: food as in, what tourists throw from autos ?
mircea_popescu: well i mean... we ate there. seated even
mircea_popescu: lotta man made things all around!
lobbes: man himself is technically man-made
mircea_popescu: the area is populated, like in europe, not wilderness, like in the us. there's a church within a day's walk in whichever direction
asciilifeform: re czechs-in-'68 lulz -- apparently gnarly subj, with archaeologists still wanking. (supposedly -- ck was evenly split, and andropov's vote broke tie)
mircea_popescu: afaik, yes.
asciilifeform: there's an entire school of crackpottery that andropov was 'manchurian candidate', grown by finn 'machiavelli' otto kuusinen .
asciilifeform: ( imho as far as these go, not even unfounded, a. crowned, after all, gorby )
mircea_popescu: i suppose
mircea_popescu: how's life treatin ya lobbes
lobbes: good good. About to depart for a road-trip (roughly 1200 miles of drivin' in the next 48 hours), so I'll be away from terminal for a spell
trinque: asciilifeform: I used to see black bears in PA as a kid.
lobbes: will be monitoring logz tho
trinque: neato, where you headed?
lobbes: nowhere interesting (Ohio). Bringing girly back home finally. Perhaps will take some pics for blog though on way back
asciilifeform: lobbes: the ejected girly , that is ?
trinque: just stick her on a bus?
lobbes: the drive through west virginia is beautiful
mircea_popescu: his girl, his rules!
trinque: sorry sorry, lol
lobbes: asciilifeform: is indeed ejected girly. Didn't come to having to call police it seems; she got the message
trinque: listen if the cops don't show up it's not a trinquian solution!11!1
lobbes: hahaha
asciilifeform: lobbes: why not. just dun get close enuff where she can re-inject the toxoplasma and make you into zombie..
lobbes: indeed. well I'm off. have fun #t!
trinque: safe travels
asciilifeform about to restart , adding ossabot to 'bots' for proper colouration. expect ~5sec of dead time.
mircea_popescu: one of these days ima notice one of these in time to actually stick some lines in the silence
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plox to add 'snsabot' to yours, for similar .
mircea_popescu: mwahahaha
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it dun affect the logger bot.
asciilifeform: !q uptime
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 16d 5h 12m
asciilifeform: afaik this is actually 1st time that we have 100% interchangeable-part bots .
mircea_popescu: i was thinking, all this shit is much too not fragile, wtf are we doing here!
diana_coman: asciilifeform: hm, I thought I had added it, will have to check.
asciilifeform: !o uptime
ossabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 2d 2h 13m
diana_coman: bear posed even better for Hannah!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 15:36:15 mircea_popescu: awww
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 15:51:41 asciilifeform: !q uptime
asciilifeform: hey diana_coman , odd
asciilifeform: why not aligned ?
mircea_popescu: aaand her super great large format pics put my blog to shame, as seen on this curved meterwide display right here. damn.
asciilifeform: seems like ossabot lost a line at some point ?
asciilifeform: grr, i see why.
asciilifeform: or nm, that wouldn't explain ( thought, at first 'it sees own output, naturally, 1st' but that wouldn't explain wai above diverges )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 04:42:31 diana_coman: at least it scrapes through into top-500 though, lol.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 04:55:56 diana_coman: - mine is the first in the list there ( but it doesn't seem to make it to top-1k providers of blocks; no idea why though, as far as I can tell it's been chugging along nicely all this time.
asciilifeform: ^ still delta of 1 .
asciilifeform: diana_coman i suspect you missed 1 line when was manually syncing .
diana_coman: asciilifeform: hm, the indices though seem out of sync earlier
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 03:28:55 lobbes: what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 03:44:26 lobbes: what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly
diana_coman: i.e. if anything I have 2 lines more??
asciilifeform: gotta find where, and why.
diana_coman: well, syncing indices is gotta be automated not manual hunting though
asciilifeform: this also
asciilifeform: ok found
asciilifeform: diana_coman yours logged when wasn't voiced
asciilifeform: this accts for the extra lines.
asciilifeform: recall that bots are 'deaf' to own output, so there is no, afaik, pill against this
diana_coman: ah, right you are
asciilifeform: divergence happened at birth of ossabot , the 1st time it was asked to speak
asciilifeform manually walked the log-raw/ dumps, found
diana_coman: thank you for the hunt !
diana_coman: but it does mean that indices won't be in sync, pretty much, huh
asciilifeform: nao if could think of how to cleanly fix these... to make the bot echoes actually interchangeable, as they oughta be
diana_coman: meanwhile I found out while it failed to colour snsabot properly: I called it nsabot ofc; drat
asciilifeform: i suspected this
asciilifeform: ( it would have been 'nsabot', too, but someone apparently is squatting that nick )
asciilifeform: ty diana_coman
diana_coman: np at all
asciilifeform: the divergence thing is gonna back backlinkage implementation very painful
asciilifeform: ( not to mention, impedes an imho important function of having multiple bots, i.e. where can substitute links if 1 fails )
asciilifeform: we're gonna need a pill .
asciilifeform: ( for that matter, asciilifeform still not attempted to correct divergence vs. phf's bot, which came from the uniturds crapola 3w ago )
asciilifeform: not to mention the horror with the dates ( it is not difficult to find lines that e.g. snsabot will quote correctly, but ossabot not, and in reverse, on acct of clock diff )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-28 21:09:04 trinque: << what's the url you want to have? possibly doable as apache-level URL rewrite
diana_coman: asciilifeform: I agree re trouble but sadly I don't have any idea how to solve it
asciilifeform: diana_coman: mircea_popescu said 'go think', so i went, to think. still haven't a pill tho.
asciilifeform: re that thrd, asciilifeform prolly will succumb to temptation to buy rubidium clock ( they're apparently laffably cheap, 100-200 bux or so, massive pile of surplus from gsm towers ) but this aint a solution as such, i aint about to ask ~erryone~ to buy one and build the 10mhz-to-pc-clock box for same. asciilifeform is simply tired of his own clocks drifting all over.
asciilifeform: ( the lamp is apparently good for 10-20 yrs, in these )
asciilifeform: imho that thing oughta be standard item in pc. gives clean, stable fundamental freq from which can run pll, incl. the 1 for cpu clock, in principle.
asciilifeform: ( physically -- they're about half the volume of box of cigar. )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: take a look in your config... suddenly your box shows as 'sossabot' ??
ossabot: Logged on 2019-08-26 23:58:39 sossabot: Logged on 2019-08-26 21:02:00 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: currently hunting for an 1u-embeddable 16port GB switch
asciilifeform: ossabot: check your nick = .... in the conf
asciilifeform: err, diana_coman ^
diana_coman: asciilifeform: uhm, nick is fine in conf, that's weird.
asciilifeform: seems like this happened from the colouration fix :
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 15:53:56 ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 03:44:26 lobbes: what took me the longest was the damn reverse proxy stuff (never done that before). Turns out it was simple enough though; will post a guide from notes once this is confirmed running smoothly
diana_coman: moreover asciilifeform it's ..yours??
asciilifeform: diana_coman: mine displays correctly
diana_coman: I mean, your *bot* that got renamed weirdly as ossabot?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:23:23 mp_en_viaje: << also jhvh1 and a111 please. and i guess candilust & tb0t eventually, though not yet. oh and "ossabot" is actually "sossabot" for some reason, i guess let's stick to it.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 21:16:41 lobbes: << Seeing as the order was given to strike scriba from the list, I have also removed it from the TMSR bot directory (which means the command prefix "!$" is available again):
diana_coman: ahh, drat
diana_coman: I know what the trouble is there
diana_coman: nm, it's in my db, will have to fix
diana_coman: it's from when I imported your dump
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma manually set off my dump, if this helps ( can grab it in 10s or so)
diana_coman: asciilifeform: no, not needed
asciilifeform: ( done anyway )
diana_coman: I just need to think a bit re how to fix it without creating more trouble
asciilifeform: what was the issue there ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: me being silly really; your dump has nsabot user, my db has ossabot so I did stupidly a blind replace, didn't think of the name in the log
diana_coman: so yeah, "sossabot" was snsabot lol
asciilifeform fwiw has not yet manually fiddled the db in any way -- i.e. phf's imports are as they were found. the 1 'hand' fix was when dropped the botched eat of #e and reran w/ lobbes's corrected . but all url's are as-they-were atm.
asciilifeform: 'era 1' , when finally eaten, will be 'dekakoized' via phf's algo, i.e. <a href="">bar</a> only 'foo' will be transfomed, when foo corresponds to a kakotron url
asciilifeform: is why i divided time into 'era'
asciilifeform: currently era 1 has not been eaten, it is pending a pill for the clock diff grrr
asciilifeform: diana_coman if you want snsabot url's to point to your www, imho the correct method, is this, rather than to actually alter db
diana_coman: asciilifeform: uhm? it wasn't about url, lol
asciilifeform: hm i was thinking diana_coman actually ran 'sed' on the db dump
diana_coman: yes; but not for changing urls (anyway it doesn't help with that, or I don't see how since url uses nosuchlabs /ossasepia, no?)
diana_coman: and I don't see any need to change the urls anyway
asciilifeform: hm so for which was it ? why did the dump need to be sed'd ?
asciilifeform: ooh hm i think i get it
asciilifeform: cuz diff db user.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: yep, as I said to start with, lol.
asciilifeform: ok makes sense.
mod6: Good Afternoon, Foundation Statement for August:
asciilifeform: ( in re urls tho -- if we had a reliable sync, would be quite painless to have each logger re-point log links to self )
mod6: (Mainly follows what I talked about in the logs a couple of days ago.)
asciilifeform: mod6: a++ . chronicle errything you can, incl. (especially!) dead ends
mod6: Yeah, will do. It'll be an adventure.
asciilifeform: imho mircea_popescu was right about this, gotta write it or otherwise will go in circles 4evah
asciilifeform: the way, is said, people go in the desert
mod6: *nod*
mod6: crap, being called off for just a moment here. bbs
trinque: soft suggestion, write this on a personal blog.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 16:52:52 asciilifeform: ( in re urls tho -- if we had a reliable sync, would be quite painless to have each logger re-point log links to self )
mod6: trinque: for sure.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if had ...logger-a/log/trilema/.../#12345... and ...logger-b/log/trilema/.../#12345... go to same place, then their www can reliably point all links to self ( for e.g. backlinkage , when implemented) otherwise not
mircea_popescu: why woukld he do that /
mircea_popescu: if i use logger a it is because i use logger a ; i wouldn't appreciate seeing my lines edited to use logger b, and especially not by logger b.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how wouldja have backlinks ( as phf had ) work ?
mircea_popescu: what do you mean ?
asciilifeform: the arrows that point to downstream (and correspondingly, upstream) refs
mircea_popescu: yes. so what, they work if same logger is used.
asciilifeform: tbf phf's proggy only understood own
mircea_popescu: you see a problem with this /
asciilifeform: yes, in that when errybody has own logger, and uses it to echo, nobody will have anyffin resembling a complete index of backlinks
asciilifeform: so that knob (not implemented yet) becomes just about worthless even in principle. but this is only tip of iceberg -- if the db's diverge arbitrarily, how wouldja go about syncing gaps, other than by hand.
mircea_popescu: why worthless ?
mircea_popescu: i am not discussing db divergence ; i am discussing line rewriting.
asciilifeform: imho line rewriting is Wrong Thing entirely. errybody oughta have identical (to extent possible) db. q was re ~display~ in www , i.e. where the links point.
asciilifeform: as in e.g. phf's, where kako links display as originally witnessed, but if clicked to to phf's log.
mircea_popescu: i dunno i'm so crazy about redirecting the links, either.
mircea_popescu: seems fundamentally disingenuous, "oh, you clicked on ? here's my own version"
asciilifeform: the old links are dead !
asciilifeform: ( kako's , that is, phf's -- for nao -- alive 0
mircea_popescu: so this is a reason to introduce it as standard practice for live links ?!
asciilifeform: only if you actually want backlinkage resembling phf's ( iirc mircea_popescu put it in spec, and even griped that it aint in yet , not long ago )
mircea_popescu: yes, but i never contemplated this ctulhu beast of it.
mircea_popescu: just, you know, within own domain
asciilifeform: let's suppose not even want this. still imho oughta maintain sync, where #1234 goes to same thing in ea. machine. otherwise the loggers are not in fact plug-in redundant backups for 1 another .
mircea_popescu: sure, why not.
asciilifeform: ( and hm, loox like diana_coman's unplugged for maintenance atm )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm trying to draw an exact map of this 'cthulhu beast' .
asciilifeform: so as to find what is even practical to consider .
asciilifeform: ( this ~is~ afaik 1st time that anyone attempted orchestra of synchronized bots )
asciilifeform: imho the bare essential function is when the urls can be made interchangeable such that if 1 fails, can swap in /etc/hosts and carry on civilized conversation until it is fixed; errything other than this, is luxury.
mircea_popescu: in principle, yes.
mircea_popescu: but i dunno that it extends as far as an expectation of functional retrospective backlink decorations
asciilifeform: maybe -- not. but as i understand if the above can be had, than so -- later -- could this.
asciilifeform: *then so
asciilifeform: re 'the beast' -- already unleashed is the beast of variant line ordering (bots will log their own output prior to any other's, per the current scheme, and it is not obvious what -- if anything -- could or even should be done about this )
mircea_popescu: alright, but that's different, specifically in that there's no god-given time
asciilifeform: i already despaired in re the very idea of 'synced time' ; but this is in re absolute ordering.
mircea_popescu: we ~could~ have a rule asking bots to log themselves as they receive the echo rather than as they send the line ; but that'd only work in a sane world where it echos, afaik irc does not
asciilifeform: it does not .
asciilifeform: bots presently are stuck 'manually' writing down own outputs .
mircea_popescu: so yeah. weird baked in. (gossipd, obviously, will not have the problem, everyone'll hear "here's what you allededly said" from multiple sources)
mircea_popescu: such wunderbar winful scheme, it's a fucking wonder they didn't come up with it / use it
mircea_popescu: then you stop and think who "they" are.
asciilifeform: irc per se as i understand is a 'dark ages' creation, before ~anyone stopped to even try to think about ~anything
asciilifeform: possib. 'product' of the other half of same bottle of whiskey as email.
mircea_popescu: the original. hence n upgrades, mentioned recently.
asciilifeform: the 'upgrades' are obv. product of 2nd bottle of whiskey.
asciilifeform: ( incidentally -- as gedankenexperiment -- even 1980s irc ~could~ have been built so as to force a sync. simply force erry issued line to carry a checksum of the prev. seen. and if wrong -- you get eggog back, and asked to resend. but no one was even giving a nanoshit about 'agree on order' etc, quite obviously )
asciilifeform: see also lamport's piece re subj. ( actually from same period ) .
asciilifeform: long-ago solved problem , supposing anyone could've been arsed.
asciilifeform: e.g. bitcoin -- seen through this lens -- is simply a generalization of lamport's sync .
asciilifeform: ( lamport did not offer a 'wat-do if N parties can't agree on 'prev line'', if he had thought about this, bitcoin would have existed, at least as algo, in 1990... )
asciilifeform: re 'why the fuck bot doesn't see own output' -- mircea_popescu had a piece re the idjicy of 'nat' , where same, q of 'what is my ip' becomes suddenly irresolvable w/out external help. i suspect in both cases 'sleep of reason breeds monsters', no one even considered to fucking think.
asciilifeform: 'new jersey philosophy', right, where 'hey it's good enuff, and if turns out not, let ~others~ clean up'. same way as email 'was goodenuff', from the idjit designer's pov, until spam, then suddenly 'what's yer problem with moving to walled gul^H^H^Hgarden, terrorist, will work there as before'. ditto irc.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: in the end I did use your most recent dump, thank you.
diana_coman: the above mainly because it's a cleaner solution i.e. no more sed on the db dump (re db user I simply changed manually precisely *that* and not touched any log lines)
diana_coman: ofc the above has also as side effect that bots are now in sync re line numbers
asciilifeform: diana_coman: appears to work. we're gonna want an algo , tho, that doesn't resolve to 'throw out my db if outta sync and eat the other's' imho .
asciilifeform: eventually ~will~ come the time when to reconstitute 100% proper picture gotta actually walk N db's .
asciilifeform: ( esp. when we finally get 3+ logtrons )
diana_coman: asciilifeform: indeed; though atm I can't think of anything that isn't ~= automated walk of N dbs
asciilifeform: currently closest thing i have to a workable idea for this is a ~semi~-automatic item that'd eat N dbs and display, to operator, the divergence points, and propose all possible cuts for how to resolve; then select one.
asciilifeform: sorta how gentoo used to have for configs.
diana_coman: a sort of diff & merge
asciilifeform: presently i doubt that this sorta thing can ever be safely 100% automated.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 18:18:11 diana_coman: ofc the above has also as side effect that bots are now in sync re line numbers
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-01 18:33:42 diana_coman: ofc the above has also as side effect that bots are now in sync re line numbers
asciilifeform: ^ worx!
diana_coman: at least as long as nobody cites the bots.
asciilifeform: the bots in these particular pairs, aha
mircea_popescu: i find it really satisfyingly funny, the sort of problems we manage to trivially summon
feedbot: << Qntra -- Amazon Begins Dictating Terms To Local Police As It Builds Residential Video Surveillance Network
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in delightful antique trilema,
mircea_popescu: speaking of "consequences of bad software", the mars polar lander is suspiciously never mentioned.
BingoBoingo: lol, rocket scientists fucked by "software engineers are engineers too"
BingoBoingo: What's your #engineerstoo story?
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