Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-02-09 | 2019-02-11 → ↓
mircea_popescu: trinque ^
shinohai: "Cloudy with a chance of packeting" -freenode
mircea_popescu: in other news, bitcoin difficulty looks like it's finally come out of the crazy and into economic coupling, check it out, past six months it's been evidently kept in place by fiat exchange rates.
mircea_popescu: seems the ~true value~ of peta hash is about 4-500 bucks.
mircea_popescu: should be very interesting to see what happens next year -- we might discover, for the "yet unknown bitcoin flaws file" that indeed halving rewards induce halving of mining-security.
mircea_popescu: and should we discover that, suddenly all the early, romantic era preaching about inflation being bad ~per se~ will need to somehow be adjusted into "inflation bad because a) market-impredictable and b) government-arbitrary", and a lot of pointing out that "systems with preknown and immutable inflation are exactly equivalent to systems with no inflation", "because in functional analysis all constants are equally C" or somesuc
mircea_popescu: anyone even recall this, btw, back when "people themselves" were gonna somehow UGC into existence the dawn of a new world ?
mircea_popescu: that'd be back before they started folding left and right like cockroaches, on the slightest of pressures, each and all of them discovering they'd much rather be "media personalities" with a side-job of dishwasher than practically anything else.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-07 19:47 BingoBoingo: In other wild finds relating to http://trilema.com/2015/heres-what-they-dont-tell-you-when-they-bring-you-those-papers-to-sign/ See: Pinned Tweet Charlie Shrem Verified account @CharlieShrem 20 Feb 2017: Watch me go from CEO to Dishwasher in "Disrupting Money" (derpurl)
a111: Logged on 2018-07-14 16:11 mircea_popescu: !!rate dooglus -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
mircea_popescu: turns out that "left to their own devices", "the people" will reproduce the sterility cycle again an' again an' AGAIN and forever, to the exclusion of all else.
mircea_popescu: the females' perl apparatus at least produces babies, yo! what the fuck's the male perl machine do ?
mircea_popescu: !Qcalc 1800 * 3500 / 24 / 3600 / 35000
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: 0.00208333333333
mircea_popescu: nfi what i did above to get http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894617, but anyway : 1800 coins / day, 3500 each say, 24 hours in that day, 3600 seconds in the hour and 35k or so PH/s network speed atm, give or take. makes the true value of the ~exa~hash about two bucks.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 15:43 mircea_popescu: seems the ~true value~ of peta hash is about 4-500 bucks.
shinohai: "There are now 1375 live ETH dApps. 86% of them had 0 users today. 93% of them had 0 tx volume today."
mircea_popescu: lol what's the rapehole got to do with anything.
shinohai: The amount of hash *those* guys waste is staggering. "Mah cryptokitties" and such.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893804 -> sadly I must say that I failed to find a way to terminate the program if/when one of the tasks is just looping infinitely ; I tried: abort of the looping task -> nothing,because task is "not in an abortable region"; Abort_Task(Current_Task) from the main program -> still stuck because apparently it takes it to mean "will stop AFTER all my dependent tasks stopped too!"; raising an uncaught except
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 18:11 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893756 -> this makes in fact a lot of sense esp given asciilifeform's observation that indeed, that's an unrecoverable error state; so this sounds good: if child task doesn't die when aborted then kill self (taking the task with self too ofc); I'll experiment with this but afaik so far it should work
diana_coman: ion -> ditto, still stuck
mircea_popescu: i tell you i dun see it. what amount ?
diana_coman: I also tried asynchronous transfer i.e. supposedly "try this and if timeout then do that" but apparently it's in fact still "oh, but ONLY if abortable"
mircea_popescu: diana_coman keks, so ada is actually stop-broken ?
diana_coman: this is what I understand so far: IF you have the misfortune of calling something that won't stop for whatever reason, you're fucked
diana_coman: and I don't know what does this make re I/O operations because you can't quite control they are "in an abortable state" afaik
diana_coman: I'm all ears if anyone has some idea re this supposedly simple thing: how to kill-self in ada, whole program but guaranteed to work i.e. without any bullshit "oh, but only if/when..."
mircea_popescu: shinohai just because a buncha kids take 2-3 ppm of hash and play with it, by cutting it into as many various boxes with labels on them (which are now "things" dontchaknow) as the square of the kiddypool headcount mean nothing. that's how industry works, back when the parents were atthe foundry making nails, kiddies had bits and segments of nails in all the pockets to play with.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman or rather, "how to a) kill something b) in a manner that's guaranteed to work".
mircea_popescu is seriously considering switching back to c ; 90% of the codebase there already...
diana_coman: ugh, can't say though I'd really want to implement more c/cpp
mircea_popescu: what the fuck am i going to do ?
mircea_popescu: i'm not about to give control of the box to "ada".
diana_coman: ctrl-c from outside still works!
mircea_popescu: o ? how come, it's "not in abortable state".
mircea_popescu: fucking bullshit.
diana_coman: well yes, outside doesn't care /know about state, the uncaring outside, obv
mircea_popescu: how the fuck dares it love its children more than its owner!
mircea_popescu will NEVER fucking support this, i don't care what it is, people, software, whatever the fuck. husband above ALL children, operator above internal state, no fucking exceptions.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather write a new ada.
diana_coman is afraid THAT is where we're heading to
mircea_popescu: inb4 "o but mp, lips also doesn't think so much of anyone besides the social worker conduit to govt dole keks"
diana_coman: I suppose I still have to try...calling pthread_kill from within ada or somesuch madness
mircea_popescu: at the rate this is going, main will be c and calling ada bits. and killing them.
mircea_popescu: and ada kept to an arm's length absolutel minimum. i find it immoral to support development in femstate languages.
diana_coman: absolute minimum is hard to define other than 0
mircea_popescu: anyway. doesn't have to be decided this very sunday.
diana_coman: hopefully there still is some way I've overlooked/haven't yet found, what can I say
mircea_popescu: #trilema, never a dull moment.
diana_coman: HA! so....GNAT.OS_Lib.OS_Exit(0) at least...works
diana_coman: to kill whole program I mean
diana_coman: so now I'll have to study that and see how it does it...
diana_coman: ofc: pragma Import(C, OS_exit, "__gnat_os_exit") and same for abort for that matter; so pretty much as above: to kill, call in C
mircea_popescu: for fuck's sake. what's wrong with these people ?
mircea_popescu: there can never be such a thing as an ada machine.
mircea_popescu: you realise this, don't you ?
mircea_popescu: and why ? because braindamaged morons ~deliberately made it so~.
mircea_popescu sees YE BRIDGE EVER EXTENDING
diana_coman: unless someone wakes up and shows me "here you idiot, THIS is how to actually stop at any time", yes
mircea_popescu: "we wanna fight mommy just a bit so she thinks more of us, not so she gets the fuck lost and we start our own household"
auctionbot: Buy order # 1039 has ENDED: No sale. Attn: BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: !Xbuy 154mn 18 500 Wired Filthy Fiats (WU is fine)
auctionbot: Buy order # 1040 created by BingoBoingo: 500 Wired Filthy Fiats (WU is fine) Opening: 154mn ecu Ending: 2019-02-10 22:42:10.419382 UTC (17 hours)
BingoBoingo: ^Take 4 at setting an exchange rate this month
asciilifeform eats log
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 16:05 diana_coman: I'm all ears if anyone has some idea re this supposedly simple thing: how to kill-self in ada, whole program but guaranteed to work i.e. without any bullshit "oh, but only if/when..."
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894658 << there is not , in long term, any escape from 'write a new ada' (at the very least, even if there were no known gnat bugs -- and i've already found at least 1 -- on acct of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892591 ).
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 16:12 mircea_popescu: i'd rather write a new ada.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-05 01:00 asciilifeform: the ultimate win would be to get something other than gnat ( say, an adatron implemented in cl... ) that can build something resembling a working gnat. but sadly i suspect this is yrs away.
asciilifeform: i dun think it even makes sense to think of the problem in terms of 'write a new ada' tho. the way i see ada, is as a junkyard wars workaround against the retardation of pc arch, where pointerolade, overflowable arrays, etc. if you had a sane arch, you could program in moar or less whatever you want (e.g on bolix, ada, fortran, c, lisp, were implemented as simply skins around the arch, and all shared in the nonoverflowability etc )
asciilifeform: re the threads tho, i thought q was settled in the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893774 item.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 17:06 mircea_popescu: so then i'm guessing if indeed this problem is encountered thing should just die altogether.
asciilifeform: nuffin keeps you from calling exit(-1) and nuking whole process + all children. i have nfi where is the puzzler here.
asciilifeform: it's an exact repeat of the ancient thread re the 'acid' guarantees in sql.
asciilifeform: will add to this also, that if yer thread is actually wedged, it will almost always be on acct of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893811 , i.e. waiting for a blocking unix i/o, and no matter what yer pthreads proggy is written in , c, ada, cobol, whatever, it will still become a zombie, cuz unix is retarded.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 18:22 asciilifeform: incidentally, before $thread is forgotten, oughta add that unix's model of process-killin' is a convincing illusion, but not the Real Thing, given e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838388
asciilifeform: i dun know of a workaround for this, either, other than to finally fucking bury unix.
asciilifeform: unix per se aint http://www.loper-os.org/?p=215 or http://www.loper-os.org/?p=267 - compliant, noose at 11..
diana_coman: asciilifeform, your example in ch16 is same thing as e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894670
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 16:21 diana_coman: HA! so....GNAT.OS_Lib.OS_Exit(0) at least...works
diana_coman: the issue at hand being that ADA doesn't kill ; and to add to this, note that in this case (i.e. some wedged task) it won't actually *finish* even when its checks fail; so that promise that "program will stop running if erroneous state" is at best mis-stated: no, it won't always stop, it might..wait to stop
asciilifeform: diana_coman: you tried exit() and it still sat ?!
asciilifeform: nao i'ma have to reproduce this
asciilifeform: diana_coman: how did you model 'wedged task' ? ( i.e. what didja put in it ? infinite loop? or eternal i/o wait ? )
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/083-gutenberg-rsync.html << The Tar Pit -- Rsync'ing Project Gutenberg, a report
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it is exactly == to GNAT.OS_Lib.OS_Exit(0) , yes, btw; i did the 'import' for the same reason as for the character i/o, i.e. to lose the dependency on the standard lib
BingoBoingo: spyked: I'm curious what happens to the size of the archive if you split out the DVD's, mp3's and pdfs.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/02/british-broadcasting-corporation-now-publishing-articles-in-language-they-describe-only-as-pidgin/ << Qntra -- British Broadcasting Corporation Now Publishing Articles In Language They Describe Only As "Pidgin"
BingoBoingo: ^ Not news in the sense they just started, news in the sense "Here's a rich oil field of stupid the dole's funded" or market for how the ghost of Rhodesian unfairness is eating that US colony north of France
asciilifeform: diana_coman: incidentally, per the std doc, raise PROGRAM_ERROR with "eggog!"; also oughta drop the whole process dead.
asciilifeform: -- at least iirc, can't seem to dig up the pertinent chapter & verse just nao
spyked: BingoBoingo, that's a very good q. I'ma make some quick stats with file types and their sizes, then will add them to the post.
asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu , et al : other observation : based on my reading of https://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/12rm/html/RM-9-8.html , 'abort' oughta work as a hard kill unless you specifically put a deliberate 'do this before death' in the task. but does gnat actually obey the standard here, i currently do not know
diana_coman: asciilifeform, nope; I tried raise Program_Error and it was just as stuck
diana_coman: hence my additional fuel on fire that no, it does not do what it promises
diana_coman: model of wedged task was infinite loop, yes; and exit(0) was the only thing that did kill it but as you can see, that is C; imported in Ada, sure, but...C
diana_coman: and no, abort does NOT work,at least not on ave1's gnat
diana_coman: i.e. it "works" in the sense that it politely waits until that wedge task is kind enough to please come out of the loop so you can abort
diana_coman: same if Main program does abort for that matter: it still waits for children tasks to be so kind as to...
diana_coman: and I mean abort_task(current_task) as well as abort that_task
asciilifeform: diana_coman: can you post plox the whole test jig, i'd like to reproduce the effect and see wtf , in gdb ( prolly won't get to it until nightfall tho )
diana_coman: k, I'll take it down and post it a bit later
diana_coman: ftr I DID look at it with gdb
asciilifeform: in re 'had to import exit()', i found that this is troo for ~100% of os i/o, not only e.g. udp but character i/o, etc. i dunlike the standard i/o glue thing came with at all.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: ah looked ? and what was it doing instead of exiting ?
diana_coman: and it shows those tasks still there; ALSO: from within Ada, you can tell: if your code does abort Task_X and then check Task_X'Terminated , it'll still be false (idem 'Callable still true)
diana_coman: it reported dutifully that thread got sig_abrt but then it was still there and ...nothing
diana_coman: somwhere in __clone iirc
asciilifeform: rright but what was the 'still there' 1 doing
diana_coman: bbl, will post the thing
asciilifeform: ty diana_coman
asciilifeform: this worx 9000 better than 'telepathic debug'
asciilifeform: i'ma go and do meat chores, will return around 2300 hrs orcistani time, and build diana_coman's tester
asciilifeform: meanwhile ave1 didja ever genesis the gnat ? currently i haven't what to patch on.
asciilifeform: and it does look like it'll havetobe patched.
asciilifeform bbl,meat
mod6: Well, during the information gathering of my blog post, I went to boot back into my never-has-failed me Gentoo installation on my 500Gb SSD. And now I'm getting: "Welcome to GRUB! \n error no such device: e45d853f-... \n error: unknown filesystem \n Entering rescue mode... \n grub rescue>" which doesn't let me boot by selecting: linux (hd0,1)/<kernel_name> root=(hd0,3) \n boot different than the normal gr
mod6: ub command prompt.
mod6: I can still access the disk via Live CD... so at least I can get the data off the drive.
mod6: What a nightmare. This box has been rock-solid for nearly a year, but now I suspect that perhaps this is a hardware problem with the MB or something? Perhaps the 78 power-cycles and SATA disk swapping that I did over the last 10 days totally hosed the machine itself.
mod6: Anyway, I'll dig up the artifacts off the gentoo disk with the Live CD and still make a post. But regardless, I think I'm gonna have to buy a new machine to mess with this any further.
BingoBoingo: I suspect file system corruption is more likely. This may mean hardware failure or it could mean an accumulation of small errors piling up during those power cycles.
BingoBoingo: If you've got an extra or leftover SATA disk lying around, see if you can throw an OS on it and boot the OS using the machine in question.
BingoBoingo: Don't waste your time with something requiring an involved install, something that takes a couple clicks an tosses up a heathen linux on a junkpile disk should be fine.
mod6: So during this adventure, I initially bought a WD 250Gb SATA SSD, upon which I installed cuntoo. Which I never did get to work. Upon initial suspicion that disk might be bad, I bought another 250Gb WD SSD and installed cuntoo on that also. Same error. So I at least removed the variable of "disk is bad".
mod6: But that's what I've got now. 2 250Gb SSDs with Cuntoo on them, neither boot, and now a 500Gb Gentoo disk that has worked perfectly up until just this very moment, which also doesn't boot.
mod6: I think I'm just going to junk this box.
BingoBoingo: But, you can read the disks with a liveCD running
BingoBoingo: I suspect there's space for error in the process of setting up and keeping up the filesystems that will persist without regard for how many boxes get junked along the way
mod6: yeah
mod6: files backed up. ok, well, i've re-run `grub-install /dev/sda && grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg`. we'll see if this resolves it.
mod6: yup, ok that seemed to do the trick. no idea how mbr or bootloader would have been corrupted.
mod6: *shrug*
diana_coman: asciilifeform, and anyone else interested in testing Ada's failure to abort, minimal test setup: ossasepia.com/available_resources/test_tasks_ada.zip
diana_coman: basically the "hard stop" means *at most* that "next statements won't run" but not at all that "thread will stop"
trinque: mod6: you really need to push through this "I have 3 broken things and no idea why, time to junk the box" impulse.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-09 19:55 trinque: btw this means that e.g. what mod6 is experiencing are more likely to be "I need to go understand kernels and lilo better" than "cuntoo is broken"
trinque: like, "neither boot". why doesn't that come with some context?
trinque: lilo does what when they attempt to boot?
trinque: "doesn't know where the kernel lives" or "kernel starts logging things and hangs when trying to mount root" or "it ties my dick in a knot and slaps my mother"
mod6: trinque: I'm getting there, it'll be in the blog post.
trinque: whatever ritual you prefer. I'm sitting right here, wondering wtf this angular communication is.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894714 << it's not like there was any prior expectation for the malfunction on any basis whatever. yes, as far as i also knew, shit was supposed to work, from what i know of what they've said you'd expect it worked etc etc.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 18:44 asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu , et al : other observation : based on my reading of https://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/12rm/html/RM-9-8.html , 'abort' oughta work as a hard kill unless you specifically put a deliberate 'do this before death' in the task. but does gnat actually obey the standard here, i currently do not know
shinohai: Will the "it ties my dick in a knot and slaps my mother" be a feature in next version of bootstrapper?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894713 << i specifically don't even WANT the "rich media" / dvds / epubs / pdfs / whatever bullshit. i don't even want their pagelong blathers about how all-important inca is or whatever shit.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 18:41 spyked: BingoBoingo, that's a very good q. I'ma make some quick stats with file types and their sizes, then will add them to the post.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That was my motivation for the question. How much junk can be cut in the collection management process on the way to having a library
trinque: shinohai: lol at this rate I'm calling it a high priority feature request.
mod6: trinque: what do you mean by 'angular'? If you mean, why so terse? Because I don't want to flood #t with a ton of information, as I'm afraid I'll also leave something out.
trinque: so stop being afraid and start coughing me up some deets like we did for what, years on end with trb, to great benefit of all
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894753 << i thought mbrs went out with the dos. still a thing ?!
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 20:26 mod6: yup, ok that seemed to do the trick. no idea how mbr or bootloader would have been corrupted.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform fwiw my initial http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893804 was informed by the docs; because yes, docs say a lot of "stops"
a111: Logged on 2019-02-08 18:11 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893756 -> this makes in fact a lot of sense esp given asciilifeform's observation that indeed, that's an unrecoverable error state; so this sounds good: if child task doesn't die when aborted then kill self (taking the task with self too ofc); I'll experiment with this but afaik so far it should work
mod6: I've conducted quite a bit of work over these last 10 days, and I know mod6 seems like a "n00b" and "doesn't know what he's doing", but I have managed to install gentoo quite a few times since '15. But yeah, always learning.
trinque: I'm certain the cuntoo script is *not done* which is why I'm having folks test it, but I want more out of these tests than "ow, it wasn't a debian installer"
trinque: nobody's even talking about mod6's standing or intelligence here.
trinque: I give even odds the lilo step of the script trashed your grub. one would love to know why.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the one question lingering here is : as ada actually elaborates an init and an exit, as it must, since it does in fact compile, whether there's a way to use these correctly in lieu of "call C-mommy to change diapers".
trinque: why did 10 days elapse without a clue entering the forum? this is the "lets do business in #pizarro" thing again
mod6: Because after all the gentoo problems I had back in '15, I wanted to be sure that I had exausted all the things before bringing this forward.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo and it is VERY HARMFUL fucking junk. having "All donations should be made to "Project Gutenberg/CMU": and are tax deductible to the extent allowable by law. (CMU = Carnegie- Mellon University)." or "Copyright laws are changing all over the world, be sure to check the copyright laws for your country before posting these files!!" in the lede of "The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare" promotes a most harmful
mircea_popescu: and in any case uncountenable view whereby the fucktarded usgistan is at least more important than fucking shakespeare.
mircea_popescu: it very well fucking is not. it's not even remotely as important. having usg.cmu or usg.anything-else spew on actual literature is nothing short of vandalism. i don't want their grafitti, and i don't care why they think they're owed it.
BingoBoingo: mod6: Start bringing out the error reports earlier. It's one very good use of a blog, you compile detailed output of the problem condition and then drop the link here.
mircea_popescu: this without even going into ridiculous nonsense a la "We produce about two million dollars for each hour we work. The time it takes us, a rather conservative estimate, is fifty hours to get any etext selected, entered, proofread, edited, copyright searched and analyzed, the copyright letters written, etc. This projected audience is one hundred million readers. If our value per text is nominally estimated at one dollar then w
mircea_popescu: e produce $2 million dollars per hour" ; apparently nobody fucking there bothered to EVER confront http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-15#1656097 or http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684170 etcetera.
a111: Logged on 2017-05-15 01:15 mircea_popescu: gutenberg statistics ? 24 downloads for regrets sur ma vieille robe de chambre. in a fucking decade. because, of course, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-09#1653782
a111: Logged on 2017-07-15 09:02 mircea_popescu: and in other "internet is for lulz", http://www.gutenberg.org/files/43617/43617-h/43617-h.htm was downloaded... 77 times.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Right. This shit has to get cleaned, and turned into an actual library collection rather than CMU subsidizing Google.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894772 << it's not terse, mod6. compare and contrast http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894635 with http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894738 ; does it strike you where these are different ?
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 20:54 mod6: trinque: what do you mean by 'angular'? If you mean, why so terse? Because I don't want to flood #t with a ton of information, as I'm afraid I'll also leave something out.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 16:02 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893804 -> sadly I must say that I failed to find a way to terminate the program if/when one of the tasks is just looping infinitely ; I tried: abort of the looping task -> nothing,because task is "not in an abortable region"; Abort_Task(Current_Task) from the main program -> still stuck because apparently it takes it to mean "will stop AFTER all my dependent tasks stopped too!"; raising an uncaught except
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 20:00 mod6: Well, during the information gathering of my blog post, I went to boot back into my never-has-failed me Gentoo installation on my 500Gb SSD. And now I'm getting: "Welcome to GRUB! \n error no such device: e45d853f-... \n error: unknown filesystem \n Entering rescue mode... \n grub rescue>" which doesn't let me boot by selecting: linux (hd0,1)/<kernel_name> root=(hd0,3) \n boot different than the normal gr
mod6: Well, it seemed to me there was a pretty lengthy conversation about Ada threading issues over the last two days, I didn't want to make my problems (with a possible questionable box) the center of attention for everyone.
mod6: Anyway, I think I'm just a bit frustrated.
trinque invites a terse machine-gunning to the face of mod6's notes
trinque: and less "shit's fucked, man" with a smoke out back.
mod6: Also, I'm remembering now, trinque, that I did ask alf about my inital hang that I had in #piz. He suggested that I had a kernel problem, but I never did really ask about it otherwise. I just tried to solve my own problem.
mod6: Well, if your frustrated with me, I apologize. I'm just trying to get this up and going so I can test Keccak TRB on here.
BingoBoingo: mod6: The closest computers have come to the promised "intelligence amplified" I have ever seen is when detailed error reports in this channel and less frequently #pizarro and #asciilifeform yield detailed feedback.
mod6: I tend, lately to stay away from asking trinque questions, as I seem to get punched in the face as opposed to helpful responses.
mod6: This is perhaps why I never reached out.
BingoBoingo: For my own selfish reasons I want to see what you hit your head on, because there is a very real chance when I go to try things I will also hit my head on the same rocks
trinque: mod6: is it possible you're just a bit too focused on feelings here?
mod6: I mean "lately" as in, the last year or so... which is fine. I should have just started blogging immediately instead of trying to resolve my issues for 10 days.
mod6: I'm not focused on any feelings. I just would rather not bother you.
BingoBoingo: I'm seeing less punches and more error reports being presented in response to the way you are composing your own error reports. It's an error cascade.
mod6 drops head.
BingoBoingo: I suggest lifting head, making some hot chocolate, taking a walk to dump some adrenaline off and get a bit of calm, then returning.
trinque: you're evaluating things towards the purpose of avoiding negative reflection upon you, rather than from the cause of your circumstances. thus when I ask you what was on your workbench when http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894746 happened, you either don't know or shy away from saying.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 20:14 mod6: So during this adventure, I initially bought a WD 250Gb SATA SSD, upon which I installed cuntoo. Which I never did get to work. Upon initial suspicion that disk might be bad, I bought another 250Gb WD SSD and installed cuntoo on that also. Same error. So I at least removed the variable of "disk is bad".
trinque: if I hated you, I'd let you proceed and negrate you in a few months. I personally tire of $howOneAppears being the aim, instead of the side-effect of *doing things*
mod6: Guys, I'm gonna work on this blog post, then unbury myself from the latest 5" of snow that just landed on me. Let's take this all back up when this is done.
mircea_popescu: mod6 no man, the difference ain't that one's topic is ada and the other's topic is cuntoo. the difference is that she said "here's the top level problem, here's the list of possible solutions, here's the failure mode of each, let me know if either the list's missing an item or wtf." ; you said "here's an error message pasted and i've been having problems".
mircea_popescu: i have no doubt that you, as anyone who uses computers, occasionally encounters error messages, and occasionally has problems.
mircea_popescu: but if these aren't structured in the manner where they're useful... unsurprisingly enough, they can't be used.
mircea_popescu: hence the encouragement to go write a blog article about it -- the idea is that "well, maybe he's not so good at being succint, but if he's stuck telling the whole story then organisation will necessarily emerge for him from it".
mircea_popescu: so either write the blog article or don't ; but in any case be like "yo trinque, the problem's X, reproducible through Y, approach a dun work because q happens, approach b dun work because w happens, wut do ?"
mircea_popescu: fail that, even something as vague as "on particularly this-and-so hw mix this thing fails in a manner i can't fucking understand" is better than nothing, witness eg http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886738
a111: Logged on 2019-01-14 03:53 mircea_popescu: in other arcana : i have here a copy of trb that has died a mysterious death on dec 31st. the process itself hasn't returned, ps aux lists it as expected, however the last time it touched any files was two weeks ago, nor does a call to getinfo ever return.
mircea_popescu: but it's not better than nothing ~by all that much~.
mircea_popescu: other than that, from what i've seen i believe he's probably right, lilo setup possibly fucked your grub at some juncture. it'd be great to extract the juncture if at all possible.
feedbot: http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/10/pizarro-isp-update-february-10th-2019/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP Update February 10th, 2019
BingoBoingo: This update raises a serious issue in the lack of success I have had setting a price point at auction this month http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/10/pizarro-isp-update-february-10th-2019/#selection-31.0-49.104
BingoBoingo: I need to know what changes to how I have been handling auctions would get people in WoT to start bidding on auctions.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo can just reuse old one i guess ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: This month I suspect I may have to.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, you might do the 0-start auction and force people to either bid or lose out. tho that risky, "market can remain insane for much longer than you can remain solvent":
BingoBoingo: Right, especially as after dropping the implied rate for take 2 and keeping that rate through takes 3 and 4 the spread between a low price not getting bids and what local liquidity is offering have grown.
BingoBoingo: One temper on zero start auctions would be that the auction result determines the price basis for invoicing. Insane auction result leads to insane invoice.
mircea_popescu: risky enough. dood who failed to bid when he was supposed to is much less likely to go "oh, this high invoice is what i deserve for my failure" and rather "o no, bill too high, won't pay [nevermind that i made it too high by being deliberately stupid, that shouldn't count, nobody should ever have to do anything]"
mircea_popescu: and so...
jurov: !Xbid 1040 154mn
auctionbot: Buy order # 1040: 500 Wired Filthy Fiats (WU is fine) Heard: 154mn from jurov. Ending: 2019-02-10 22:42:10.419382 UTC (12 hours 40 mins)
BingoBoingo: ty jurov
BingoBoingo: Anyways, if there is something I can do whether that is standardizing the length of auction, day of the month it starts, duration, etc feedback is welcome.
mircea_popescu: i personally am not generally bidding because broadly i want this thing to develop its own network and narrowly it's just twenty times the cost in overhead for whatever benefit it might produce, sorta like carrying strawberries by the boat one by one.
BingoBoingo: That's healthy and consistent with your necessary turning of the screws since the 2017 power cycling incident to accelerate the purging of hallucinated optionality.
mircea_popescu: that aside, i'm guessing i still supplied a large-ish chunk of pizarro's dubaloos in 2018. but anyway.
jurov: BingoBoingo: I'm more likely to bid on smaller amounts, 500 wff is fine. Maybe you can split the sum into several auctions.
jurov: If it's worth the clutter.
mircea_popescu: the thing with price signals is that they get more precise the more bidders, not necessarily the larger chunk.
mircea_popescu: a $100 bill on which 3 people bid is likely to sell closer to true value than a 2000 chunk on which there's 1 bid.
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, entirely nothing is lost making them smaller for as long as it improves participation
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894458 <<< I'm working on a simple trilema.com search function, lemme know if you'd like to see a demo.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-09 19:04 mircea_popescu: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/bcinfobot.html << anyone want his bot in here ?
BingoBoingo: jurov: My disinclination to committing to splitting chunks and putting them all up for auction here comes from those times the local liquidity is more generous than the grizzled veterans bidding here. For the two reasons of prudence with Pizarro's capital and the cause of continuing to spread Bitcoin's corruption... the local market can't be ignored.
BingoBoingo: On the other hand there is also the case where, when the datacenter is ready to be paid again, a flurry of undersized payments is likely to lead them to WTF. Further the local liquidity hits a bigger buy/sell spread with the volume the datacenter's monthly requirements demand (And then there are the consequences if third party fails to pay the datacenter to spec).
shinohai: !!up bcinfobot
deedbot: bcinfobot voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: !~trilema sluts
mircea_popescu: shinohai select query returns 67 rows. what's this do, basically google ?
shinohai: It uses ddg api
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo defo you don't want to chunk up the dc payments
BingoBoingo: Reluctant to take them out of WoT as well
mod6: http://blog.mod6.net/?p=42 << Ok, I've got that blog post up.
mod6: I've got to go do some snow removal, will be back in a bit.
feedbot: http://blog.mod6.net/?p=42 << mod6's Blog -- A Cuntoo Adventure
mod6: oh hey, i guess i was added to the roll.
mod6: aight bbl.
trinque: great! so lilo worked, and your kernel config was busted.
trinque: lilo's work is done the moment the linux kernel starts coughing up logs
trinque leaves a comment
trinque: at any rate, don't trash your computer just yet!
BingoBoingo: mod6: Please on your blog go into the settings and change the number urls to human readable urls before it is too late and you are stuck in the trap asciilifeform is
BingoBoingo: Your blog is young, if you wait the pain only grows
BingoBoingo adds "human readable urls" to mp-wp setup steps
trinque: iirc the old ones all work if you change it
BingoBoingo: The do on the same wp-database, yes
mod6: trinque: thank you for your comment; will respond when I can gather up some more info.
mod6: BingoBoingo: what is meant by 'human readable'? I can mouse over them and they seem to be correct.
BingoBoingo: mod6: In terms of ?p=42 versus a string composed of words with maybe some numbers corresponsiding to a date
BingoBoingo: You can set this at /wp-admin/options-permalink.php for your blog's domain
mod6: hmm, ok.
mod6: can this be set in the admin-thingy? or does this have to be straight into the PHP?
BingoBoingo: mod6: From the admin-thingy
mod6: Settings->Permalink Settings->Month and name (radio button) looks like.
BingoBoingo: Aha, any of those work
mod6: cheers, bbl.
BingoBoingo: Thank you o7
hanbot: !!key ave1
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894807 << verily. And not even necessarily rocks he hit, but also rocks avoided that less experienced folx may hit (for e.g., I have never debugged a kernel before. Now, when my time to do that comes I know I can check http://blog.mod6.net/2019/02/a-cuntoo-adventure/ to re-read how mod6 did it).
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 21:14 BingoBoingo: For my own selfish reasons I want to see what you hit your head on, because there is a very real chance when I go to try things I will also hit my head on the same rocks
lobbes: And the utility of reporting applies to oneself too; even though my flailings in http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/01/initial-cuntoo-testing/ may not be of use to anyone else, -I- now have a ready history of wtf I was thinking/doing years down the line, from which to diff
lobbes: btw, I managed to finally get a handrolled heathen gentoo installed the other day (my first one ever). Still wrestling with getting networking functional, but once I do I'ma get vtools set up, and then give the cuntoo bootstrap.sh another spin
hanbot: diana_coman fwiw i ran into a few broken internal links on ossasepia today on account of their still pointing to dianacoman.com, see http://ossasepia.com/2018/03/08/eucrypt-compilation-sheet/ fo' instance.
feedbot: http://bingology.net/2019/02/11/just-about-everything-i-grew-up-understanding-to-be-normal-is-a-recent-invention/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Just About Everything I Grew Up Understanding To Be Normal Is A Recent Invention
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894867 << is it clear which kernels work or what exactly as of yet ?
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 22:50 trinque: great! so lilo worked, and your kernel config was busted.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894872 << he's not trapped, he could change them today to no ill effect. he just opts to be irrationally weird about it.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 23:32 BingoBoingo: mod6: Please on your blog go into the settings and change the number urls to human readable urls before it is too late and you are stuck in the trap asciilifeform is
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dunlike shit urls anymoar than anyone else, it's down there on conveyor , somewhere below the various roaring fires
mircea_popescu: alrighty then
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894755 << ty diana_coman , got it, will report when replicated
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 20:31 diana_coman: asciilifeform, and anyone else interested in testing Ada's failure to abort, minimal test setup: ossasepia.com/available_resources/test_tasks_ada.zip
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894874 << you know, you ~could~ just alter the setup yourself, make a patch or such.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 23:33 BingoBoingo adds "human readable urls" to mp-wp setup steps
mircea_popescu: make the /year/slug format the default an' be done with it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re 'which kernels work?' : this is a++ q, but sadly incomplete, instead q is always 'which kernels for on $iron'
asciilifeform: for instance asciilifeform has a known-working config for all dulap-like boxen; presently in use by diana_coman on iirc both diana_coman units; another for rkisms
mircea_popescu: anything, really.
asciilifeform: i regret to inform that i do not have a config that works on 'anythings'
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The default in the recipe has changed going forward after a bit of reflection reveals it was my failing
mircea_popescu: "we have so far tried : X (a, b, c works), Y (b, d), Z (a, c, e). let us know if you try more please."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i mean "any information whatsoever."
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 14:50 mircea_popescu: alright. so basically, we have a july latest-kernel from alf at http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/conf_current.conf << diana_coman trinque erryone else interested read and see if it works for you / comment ?
asciilifeform: ( i keep it updated also, it is current as of the last rebuild )
mircea_popescu: but that's just straight up a binary. and if you keep it updated, guess what, it's a ~changing~ binary.
asciilifeform: the linked item is a text conf
asciilifeform: recently as experiment i build a 'latest' kernel with it; and it required curing ! lemme dig up thread :
mircea_popescu: # Linux/x86 4.9.76-gentoo-r1 Kernel Configuration
a111: Logged on 2019-01-19 17:56 asciilifeform: briefly revisiting the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-18#1888182 find : 'CONFIG_RETPOLINE=n' yields a working kernel (with gcc 4.x), for nao.
mircea_popescu: CONFIG_64BIT=y CONFIG_X86_64=y CONFIG_X86=y << always a pleasure to read these.
asciilifeform: the 'official' kernel is headed straight to bottom of the sea.
asciilifeform: already beginning to tip, like titanic, and blowing horn one final time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a reasonably compact kernel, to support various items currently in standard use, raid card, FG serial dongles, iptables.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, and has to set things nine different times because reasons. CONFIG_NORLYNOT32BiT=y #(note the i in there!)
asciilifeform: all currently fielded asciilifeform kernels are small variations on that 1.
mod6: I can give it a try and report back on this as well. I have a couple of things to investigate for trinque first though.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: good % of the flagolade is auto-set by the configurator, it's not exactly a civilized product
asciilifeform: ( afaik the last 'fits-in-head' kernel was 1.sumthing... )
trinque: any chance of mechanically ripping the source out for anything set to "N", or did progress shit all over any hope
trinque has not looked into this deeply
asciilifeform: trinque: betcha it's actually doable
asciilifeform: tho not necessarily mechanically, lotsa 'spaghetti' interwound liquishit in'ere.
mircea_popescu: it might be doable if one is found to shit a weekend babying a machine.
asciilifeform: optimistically
asciilifeform: prolly moar like a yr+ of weekend.
mircea_popescu: well, after the first one in much better position for guess.
asciilifeform: ( consider how long took to clean , to reasonable level of non-sepsis, trb -- a 200x smaller product )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894768 << nao if only ocr actually worked. ( asciilifeform admits, never had much enthusiasm for 'let's preserve gutenberg' on acct of most of it being ~unreadable, even the orig jpegs or whatnot are often '90s-quality and wtf to do with'em but throw out, and ditto the text )
a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 20:51 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894713 << i specifically don't even WANT the "rich media" / dvds / epubs / pdfs / whatever bullshit. i don't even want their pagelong blathers about how all-important inca is or whatever shit.
asciilifeform: nao, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892273 is ~also~ ocr'd! but the mistakes are ppm level, not '3 per para'. reason for this is that the ru folx ~actually fucking read~
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 16:41 asciilifeform: http://flibusta.is is asciilifeform's routine 'gutenberg', been a while since i looked at the actual one
mircea_popescu: omfg Mocky_ how do i link to a specific comment on your site!111
asciilifeform: the anglosads, near as i can tell, scanning in their shakspeares and... never touched again.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The solution to OCR is castle scribes spending man centuries, as mircea_popescu is deploying with Bimbo
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the other solution is that the folx who did the orig scan actually give half a shit and proofread. but this is evidently not ever happening in anglostan outside of dedicated effort like mircea_popescu's
BingoBoingo: Too much to scan
mircea_popescu: check out that horror, <div class="exampleblock"> <div class="content"> <div class="dlist"> <dl> <dt class="hdlist1">. and of course i can't use #hdlist1 because all comments are hdlist1.
mircea_popescu: what am i gonna do now, exclude linking him cuz admin reasons ? scandal!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: flibusta mirror was ~100G last i looked. of ~ascii text~ .
asciilifeform: not pdf, not ??? , etc
asciilifeform: ( well technically 'koi' txt, but still , txt, not bitmapolade )
asciilifeform: diff is, those b00kz, from marshak's transl of shakespeare to the lowest pulp liquishits, ~get read~
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform only reason they scan in "their" shakespears WHICH NEVER WERE NOR WILL EVER BE THEIRS, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-09#1711670 africans as they are, is so that they can add their self-important vomit up top. "copyrights blablabla" didntcha know.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-09 18:34 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-09#1711610 << loller. shakespeare, one of the oldest and most established audre lorde
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these dun exist in the ru warez libs either
asciilifeform: no 'headers', no copyrasty garbage.
asciilifeform: goes straight to pg.1.
mircea_popescu: right ? which is exactly all the proof i need.
mircea_popescu: only reason ustard has book in library is as a pedestal for his tupperware sales pitch.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this goes way back. lemme dig up a recently-found sad :
asciilifeform: recently asciilifeform wanted to quote from s. brant's 16th c. lul 'narrenschiff'. mega-longseller-bestseller in all of europistan, incl. su. so went 'hrm, iirc there's an english'. guess what found ? http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20179/20179-h/20179-h.htm
asciilifeform: ^ not only encrusted with gutenbergism, but quarter meg from orig 16th derp !
asciilifeform: and the 'translation' -- ain't
asciilifeform: it is clear that barclay didn't know a word of orig de !!
asciilifeform: someone summarized for him, and he shat out a 'cliffs notes'
asciilifeform: and added buncha rubbish, like ' praises of the "noble Henry which now departed late'
asciilifeform: aand 'Of predestinacyon.'
asciilifeform: and 9000 other ???wtfomfg.
asciilifeform: the fucktards had 'gutenberg quality'... in 1500s!!!
mircea_popescu: anglotards. not spontaneously generated, no.
asciilifeform: this was so depressing, i did not even put in log
asciilifeform: but nao i gotta, because it is exactly apropos
mircea_popescu gives up, links mocky's whole article instead of intended comment.
mircea_popescu: IF YOU LOVE ME YOU NEVER FORCE ME TO DO THIS SORTA THING!!!
asciilifeform: diana_coman et al : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4SpwP/?raw=true << built, replicated test jig; i'ma lay the thing out on vivisection table properly after sleep ( spent today , among other things, fixing a furnace, bent wrists out , gotta let'em snap back )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1894887 << i have not forgotten you, mod6 ! will grant wishes in the order lamp was rubbed, promise
a111: Logged on 2019-02-11 00:03 mod6: ok, that blog post is now: http://blog.mod6.net/2019/02/a-cuntoo-adventure
mircea_popescu publishes, then goes to look at spamtrap, there's EIGHTEEN items in it. "hory shit my spamthing finally croaked?!"
mircea_popescu: nope... it's just bingo hitting it hard.
mircea_popescu: (but, in other good news, your pingback thing also works fine.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a++ plantator hat
mircea_popescu: innit tho!
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> (but, in other good news, your pingback thing also works fine.) << ty, Lardner set me on a re-reading binge
mircea_popescu: people HERE fcuking love it. bought an armful of roses few days ago, dood selling it was like "that's a great hat, mr! say, when you're done with it, don't throw it out, throw it at me, i'd love to have it."
asciilifeform bbl , horizontal
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/so-they-found-it/ << Trilema -- So they found it!
mircea_popescu: trinque is it actually the case that cuntoo can't boot off a non-first drive ? if so easy enough to check.
trinque: yeah, I'm specifying root=/dev/sda3 in lilo; whereas if I specified root=UUID=D9FCABCA-1F52-4A84-9CB8-4898F8DEC6AE, oughta be able to boot properly even if drive enumeration changes. that'd be nice for the infectious/reproductive angle later.
mircea_popescu: oh damn.
mircea_popescu: well then of fucking course it can't find a sda3 that doesn't exist, he needs sda2 or w/e ?
mircea_popescu: "kernel is bad" in the sense of beign very bad for being somewher eentirely else.
trinque: if it's the case that he left it as an external usb disk, looks like kernel didn't know the disk was there, so the kernel he builds would have to know of the usb chip he has.
trinque: but even if the kernel knew it was there, if that disk wasn't "sda", nah, wouldn't work. this didn't stick out at me because "bootstrapper" grew out of my own tooling for stamping out an internal boot disk for new machine.
mircea_popescu: well at least this got somewhere. mod6 does the ^ make sense ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo different different metals ; count take them ; become and exercise ; against which the rest of the world moves against ; punative prison ; human chattle ; become and entrenched
BingoBoingo: ty, fxd
BingoBoingo: Comment replied to as well
feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/02/i-got-99-problems/ << Bimbo.Club -- I got 99 problems.
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