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mircea_popescu: so basically, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892381 not right, absolutely gotta be x64 ?
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 17:29 mircea_popescu: can't see why not.
mircea_popescu: i don\t think i own any x64 lappies.
trinque: yep, present item wants to begin life on an x86-64
trinque: once we get across the gap, can easily rebuild for w/e
trinque headed to bed
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892447 <-- ty! will continue discussion there.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 21:49 mircea_popescu: spyked http://trilema.com/2015/how-to-fix-your-local-trackbacks/ << turns out i already had.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892703 <-- I'ma give it a try and report. if it's more complicated than a rsync, I'll come up with a method to (at the very least) make the archive accessible to L1 after I grab it
a111: Logged on 2019-02-05 03:08 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892264 << looks like spyked is going to take care of it (though, I dun mind rsyncing it as well) >> http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-201.0-213.84
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i don't suppose you folks have a 64 bit machine i could get for hanbot to continue her cuntooing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's the snsa spare unit, currently cold
mircea_popescu: how much for a month ?
asciilifeform: the standard color rate we get dulap for
asciilifeform: *colo rate
mircea_popescu: i hafta look this up ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's in the snsa broadcasts, lol
mircea_popescu goes to look it up
asciilifeform: '141.7 USD/mo, billed in BTC at the beginning of every month.'
mircea_popescu: a. BingoBoingo wouldja mind billing me for a month of ^ and send hanbot teh credentials.
mircea_popescu: the race being on, i'm curious if "check trinque 's sig" can be done in 1 mo or not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what'll you need in re disk ? ( that box is a cold spare and diskless atm )
mircea_popescu: i have nfi, whatever's needed to encuntoo-ate it. was this ever discussed ?
asciilifeform: i dun recall trinque giving estimate of min disk req'd
mircea_popescu has no data re this job, so can't say much.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what do you have, 1tb or something ? i can't imagine it wouldn't suffice.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's a # of 1b ssd in stock. BingoBoingo plox to give mircea_popescu a quote for same.
BingoBoingo: Will be happy to
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: when you fill this order, plox to bring up that box with a usb boot stick and give it ip, so hanbot doesn't have to use the quite unpleasant kvm.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: or lemme know if you need help with this.
mircea_popescu: what's teh boot stick ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's an ancient gentoo boot stick baked by ben_vulpes kept on hand for such occasions.
mircea_popescu: convenient, seeing how it then also cuts some intermediate steps, i guess ?
asciilifeform: correct
mircea_popescu: ie, "select a gentoo to install", which took a day's work fwir.
asciilifeform: it's a starvation-bare gentoo, suffices for maintenance.
mircea_popescu: one day there's gonna be an accounting of all these dead days, "well, master ordered me to so and so, so i went through the piles, picked laptop, then discovered needs gentoo but not clear which gentoo, links dead, so ima pick one, then next day discovered it dun work on machine i selected before knowing the relevant criteria and turns out i dun have one that meets and holy shit".
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to also unhook kvm from uy1 ( which is running without issue continuously since i started watching )
mircea_popescu: if for no other reason then because i'd really like to slim it out in the coming years.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Will do
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta the point of nailing down cuntoo etc. to avoid the quite unpleasant 'hrm i need a box, lemme visit junkyard and see if they have pieces of old lada'
mircea_popescu: the point of the entire fucking affair, really.
mircea_popescu: vaguely relatedly, is there such a thing as a 64 bit laptop that's acceptable as far as anyone knows ?
mircea_popescu: i never bought one yet, principally because i don't know of such a thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when hanbot goes to do this exercise, ping BingoBoingo so he can do his duty in the cage cycling mains for the unit if necessary
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: e.g. the well-known x60
mircea_popescu: the pre-shit days x60 was 32 bit
asciilifeform: (for which asciilifeform posted patched bios, and on which baked the trimmed gentoo which then trinque matured into cuntoo etc)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope, 64
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> vaguely relatedly, is there such a thing as a 64 bit laptop that's acceptable as far as anyone knows ? << I don't hate the thinkpad x120e, AMD E350 Bobcat chip
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc t40 was the last 32bit pentium stinkpad
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for that matter, the starvation-cheap machine in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2993 , 'samsung n150', same chipset as x60 . cost me exactly fiddybux on fleamarkets.
asciilifeform: there were 9000 boxen with that chipset, '09-10
asciilifeform: it was pretty much the last intel chipset on lappy which linuxed without pile of ??? breakages afaik.
mircea_popescu: a wait, yes, x-s are lenovos aren't they.
mircea_popescu: the ibm stuff was T-whatever.
asciilifeform: ( and the last to work w/ linuxbios, if one inclined to experiment with same)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: x- was when freshly chinesated but the contents not yet changed.
mircea_popescu: right. i gotta buncha t's
asciilifeform: i also ( largely retired'em tho )
mircea_popescu: i suspect i use laptops a lot less than you do.
asciilifeform: i dun so much these days ( rarely leave house... lol )
mircea_popescu is waveriong whether he wants to actually buy an x-pad or can't be arsed.
mircea_popescu: evidently, this isn't the first time.
asciilifeform: still use'em as 'single-purpose box that dun take too much floor' on occasion.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you do, get the x60 ( asciilifeform , phf, using w/ patched bios & old gentoo )
asciilifeform: avoid '61' and laters.
asciilifeform: they're ~eternal so unlikely you'll want >1, unless equipping pupils
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824545 << i gotta figure this shit out, because i ~thought~ i had some x60s also.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:41 mircea_popescu: i think i have one right here. from ~period. it's a workhorse, sure, and it paid for itself many times over, but...
asciilifeform: ( also avoid 'x40', used bizarre nonstandard disk )
mircea_popescu shall go into the storages.
asciilifeform: x60 eats ordinary ssd etc w/out issue.
asciilifeform: ( comes out with 1 screw, also )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re cured bios, see thrd http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-11#1601541 .
a111: Logged on 2017-01-11 18:49 asciilifeform: aaaaaaaaaalso in order to do this you will need the patched bios.
mircea_popescu: ok, so to be perfectly clear -- thinkpad x60, released by lenovo cca 2006, comes with Intel Core Duo T2400 / 1.83 GHz processor, which is a 32 bit processor.
asciilifeform: ( why this needed -- to rip out the vendor's sad intel nic and put in e.g. atheros )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there were at least 4 variants. i haven't encountered the 32b one tho.
mircea_popescu: well it's apparently all i've encountered.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the spec is as described, with t2400, 31 W.
mircea_popescu: you had me scratching my head asciilifeform !
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was the transition period when intel was tryin' to liquidate last stock of 32b item, tru
asciilifeform: loox like mircea_popescu got 'lucky'
mircea_popescu: well what can i tell ya.
mircea_popescu went through a phase where deliberately did not buy 64 bit.
BingoBoingo: Based on last month's colo a month is 0.03542500, individuals SSD's are on our book at 0.04744204 BTC. asciilifeform, as technical director is it reasonable to short term rent an SSD or are SSD's something that need to be sold. My inclination is SSD attaches to customer. Disinclined to reuse these things or pass them between customers.
mircea_popescu: tbh, if it weren't for crypto, i still wouldn't.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's not so much win from 64 on lappies where max ram e.g. 3GB.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: defo 64 is like tits on a boar for cryptoistic dos box etc.
mircea_popescu: or in general. i want 2gb films like i want the clap. if god didn't mean films to be 700mb he wouldn't have made cd's that big.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo but i mean, i have to buy a ssd to test out cuntoo ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you're certain you won't need fast disk of >1mo of operation, we can feed you one of the still-working retired rk drives
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I am asking asciilifeform how we want to handle this
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as long as the thing fits. how big are they ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 128G
mircea_popescu: give me a break, if cuntoo dun fit in there the problem's not with the disk.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo give me however many fit / you want to spare, she can cuntoo-image them all for you free of charge.
asciilifeform: so then. BingoBoingo plox to take 1 of these and feed to mircea_popescu . the caveat is that it ~may~ fail prior to 1mo.
trinque: thing's not but a few gigs.
mircea_popescu: trinque cool.
asciilifeform: it'll run at usb2 speed ( the contemplated
asciilifeform: machine has no usb3)
asciilifeform: but for mircea_popescu's purpose i suspect will entirely suffice.
trinque: whole point was to slim the thing down to minimal set that'll boot and compile w/e else you wanted
mircea_popescu: i recall the times a slim os was judged by "fits on one 7"."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: may recall, i stuffed a working linux (with 3.x kernel no less) into <5MB. gentooisms are bulky on acct of sores.
mircea_popescu: fucking novell netware. I STILL RECALL THAT CRAP, 47 disks or some shit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm just going through a nostalgia moment here.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo give me however many fit / you want to spare, she can cuntoo-image them all for you free of charge. << Sounds like a plan. Gathering materials.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's then nostalgiate for good ol' dos, which sat happily on 360kb flop.
mircea_popescu: of course, it didn't come with sources.
asciilifeform: i have the sores, it's coupla mb of asm.
mircea_popescu: kinda for this reason, back i nthe day "sources" meant a LOT of "brain content" so to speak.
mircea_popescu: this is a large portion of what the "champions" of "the open source revolution" generally omit to mention :
mircea_popescu: back in the 16 bit days, MOST software existed in a verrrry soft manner indeed.
mircea_popescu: people (the actual people, i mean) only started perceiving the need to ~even write down most of it~ sometime in the 90s.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they dun even like to mention that typical gnuturd is 80-90% autoconfolade by mass
mircea_popescu: ie, with or without "cathedral & bazaar", "copyleft" etc bs, something very akin to "the effects of open source" would have occured ANYWAY
mircea_popescu: because fuck, one guy and his wife can make zexcellent-80 games in bedroom over summer, without bothering to DOCUMENT how that much
mircea_popescu: but by the time you're trying to wrangle the 32bit processor's 2gb of memory...
mircea_popescu: and so in this sense, dos "source" is a lot like "bolix source" -- would consist of 99.9999% cat scans by mass.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ye olde 'doom' , complete with 32bit emm thingie, weighed, what, 2,3mb
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dos sores , surprisingly, was moar or less sane item (considering that microshit stole it)
mircea_popescu: maybe it was already ending by time of doom, but i guarantee you that if i had orig author of said 2mb of asm "source" of dos in the dungeon, i'd be stuck producing A LOT OF accompanying notation through interrogation.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall how microshit released ~0 useful docs, and folx like norton made megabux sellin' boox
mircea_popescu: yes "object oriented" verbosity is ridoinculous. nevertheless there is A LOT of meta involved that no ida ever sucks out, cuz it's not machine-accessible. which is why both eucrypt and ffa published chapters look like they do.
mircea_popescu: and i'm not even sure it's yet detailed enough (not to mention the part where -- "to make any sense of this you must headload log anyways")
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i cant speak for eucrypt, but ffa is at least as much experiment in 'can program be written to make sense?' as it is arithm lib
mircea_popescu: the ur example being of course "Although optimum is an absolute term, like unique, it became common verbal practice to make it relative: not quite optimum or less optimum or not very optimum. Mel called the maximum time-delay locations the most pessimum."
asciilifeform: ( and asciilifeform is the last who could answer definitively the q of whether succeeded to 'program to make sense', only the readers can answer it )
mircea_popescu: without all that fundamentally oral commentary... well... where's mel.
asciilifeform: i dun have a magical recipe for 'program to make sense'. approached problem by consciously avoiding all the various 'perlisms' knew of that typically prevent it; then wrote proggy with ~50% comment mass by weight ( but who can guarantee that they suffice ? ) , + the proofs/articles.
mircea_popescu: "good" is not given man ; only "better".
asciilifeform brb,ttime
BingoBoingo found a couple 160GB rust spinners going through the luggage, one of them can be repurposed to keep hanbot from having to work off of USB 2.0
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: let's use ( unless mircea_popescu specifically prefers the usb stick for somereason )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I am going to head down to the basement to put two old RK drives in dulap for zeroing and to retrieve the USB to SATA cable for zeroing the rust
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-06#1893257 << incidentally, must add that i do ~not~ recommend this box , unless yer experimenting with the linked display thing; it takes good chunk of hour to get disk in/out of it on acct of braindamaged mechanical design of chassis
a111: Logged on 2019-02-06 15:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for that matter, the starvation-cheap machine in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2993 , 'samsung n150', same chipset as x60 . cost me exactly fiddybux on fleamarkets.
asciilifeform: ( aside from that, it's more or less same thing as x60, but with slightly smaller and substantially cheaper-feeling kbd )
asciilifeform: but if yer concern is more 'how many fit on a shelf' -- it's a champ. approx the size of 1.5 vhs tapes.
asciilifeform would really like to somehow turn rk into a sane lappy, but presently dun have enuff hands for such thing
asciilifeform: really rk would make an ideal lappy guts.
asciilifeform: could prolly run off a handful of 'aa' batteries for coupla days.
mircea_popescu: wasn't going to.
BingoBoingo: X120e is easy enough to work on, chinese plasic, but pre-2013 AMD dual core thing
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that one actually is baked around same contents as ye olde http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-11#1654659
a111: Logged on 2017-05-11 18:07 mircea_popescu: so then what did you like about apu1 in the first place ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Baked with a beefier clock!
BingoBoingo: 1.6Ghz!!!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you find that you wanna experiment with the x60, you will like that the radio nic comes out without hacksaws & drills ( 1 screw ) .
BingoBoingo: trinque: Do you have a Gentoo install image suitable for walking to Cuntoo?
trinque: BingoBoingo: I've intentionally not produced any additional binaries which would bring into question whether future boojums came from me or gentoo upstream
trinque: any old debian or w/e you want should do, provided you have a vtools handy
BingoBoingo: In one hand I have a very enviable problem in a repeat customer wanting a box stood up. With that box the customer intends to have very capable hands under his control test the cuntoo build process. As a bonus they are offering to molest USB sticks into cuntoo propagators.
BingoBoingo: On the other hand my technical director is buried in work, Republican and Saecular. The boot drive we had been using to stand up boxes infrequently as we have... this box doesn't want to boot to. I would like to offer as pleasant an environment as possible for the customer's experiment, and for that... I suspect any old Debian will not do. The more time they have to do their experiment and the less they spend making the environment
BingoBoingo: right for their experiment, the better value they get.
BingoBoingo: I've made a new stick off of what Gentoo.org advertises as a "2012" build, but Gentoo.org isn't in my WOT.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i have 2h slot now, let's fill that order
BingoBoingo: We've got http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2295 but nothing similar for AMD64, after a day reading docs and working the brain I lack answers for "wat do" which appear palatable or right.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lemme know what's missing plox
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I made a new boot drive, just finished baking.
asciilifeform: this will be good test for 'can light up cuntoo from in a heathen gentoo'
asciilifeform: let's proceed plox
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you anticipate lotsa log static for this one, let's take it to #p
asciilifeform: we're gonna fill that order, BingoBoingo , so customer licks lips & asks for seconds!111, ideally.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, as BingoBoingo marches to the magick cellar, today's trilemalotto yields : http://trilema.com/2014/the-finfisherfinspy-story-for-posterity/
trinque: BingoBoingo: sure, makes sense. is the reason I didn't bake such a thing clear?
asciilifeform: clear to me, trinque
trinque stands ready to assist if anybody hits a roadblock.
BingoBoingo: trinque: Very clear, was despairing at a potential for want of a nail that has since found nail
BingoBoingo: !Q later tell hanbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ODjpO/?raw=true << Credentials for AMD64 box
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: a++ BingoBoingo , ty for the hands
asciilifeform: hanbot, mircea_popescu : machine is ready for cuntoo beachhead .
asciilifeform: when comes time to cycle the mains, plox to ping BingoBoingo .
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo get some rest nao.
asciilifeform bbl, to eat/sleep
BingoBoingo to similar
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