Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-04-16 | 2018-04-18 → ↓
ascii_lander bbl:bed
trinque: looks like there's packet loss between the wallet and deedbot, with the fault on the deedbot end.
trinque: that'd explain some of the incomplete registrations (got nick:fp pair, did not get key into wallet's keychain)
trinque shipped a patch that'll retry fetching the key
trinque: aside all that, deedbot's obviously migrating to pizarro soon as can be done.
ckang: trinque: do they need to register ?
ckang: re-register*
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799857 <-- which one(s)? ti-89? trying to get a better idea about how "os with clean no-assumption interface" looks.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 15:20 mircea_popescu: the best example i can think of is the code on the old handheld calculators. THAT is a general purpose os : it makes no assumption about the downstream, merely fully, cleanly and directly exposes the hardware.
spyked: hm, a111 dead?
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-04-16 15:12 mircea_popescu: i suppose at work might be a confusion between what-some-idiots-might-be-thinking-retroconstructed-on-the-flimsy-basis-of-how-they-behave, where "general purpose os" means "the sprinkle of magic turning the computer from a computer to anything i want it to be, which is to say a tool that magicvally works for any purpose i might come up with, especially the nonsensical and self-contradic
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799861 <-- I dun fully grasp this, so bear with me for a moment. suppose the following (imho no-nonsense) thought experiment: say we have an os, NOP-OS, that works as follows: after initialization, the os loads a (user-provided) program P; the NOP-OS interface exposes to P exactly one system call, "no-op", which does nothing and returns. is then NOP-OS a general-purpose OS? say we add another system
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 15:22 mircea_popescu: whereas the proper definition of "general purpose" is the one mentioned, "which makes no assumptions about the userland".
spyked: call, "exit(code)", which allows P to return control to NOP-OS, so that the user can load another program P'. same question here.
shinohai: http://archive.is/SoN4j <<< be careful out there, trinque
BingoBoingo: So much log from yesterday
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform's sense of wonder here has been good for the moral. Been learning quite a bit here.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/04/jewish-state-continues-aggressions-in-syria/ << Qntra - Jewish State Continues Aggressions In Syria
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800713 <<< ty mod6 ... had a fine weekend o7
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 01:26 mod6: shinohai: happy belated!
deedbot: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/04/17/rfc-euloras-communication-protocol-eucomms/ << Ossasepia - RFC: Euloras Communication Protocol (EuComms)
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/04/21-coearn-com-saga-ends-with-coinbase-acquisition/ << Qntra - 21.co/Earn.com Saga Ends With Coinbase Acquisition
shinohai: BingoBoingo: overvalues firm / overvalues the firm ?
BingoBoingo: ty shinohai
ascii_lander: ohai mircea_popescu
mod6: mornin' TMSR~
BingoBoingo: Buen dia
mircea_popescu: !!pay veronicalol 0.02
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 03:48 ascii_lander: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1800393 << augustine
BingoBoingo: Fuck it, Plotinus
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: it's in my copy of augustine, lol
ascii_lander: iirc 'make me chaste and continent but not yet'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800909 << wasn't, no. and yes, the ti-89, sure. or my ancient citizen solar powered item which i haven't seen for 15 years at the least but which was revolutionary for its time and literally worked by degrees -- if you obstructed two of its cell it could still slightly power the screen so it did.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 08:57 spyked: hm, a111 dead?
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, to a large degree who said what in early church history is a cockularity poontest.
mircea_popescu: or vice-verssa
mircea_popescu: lobbes, ^ see that ? SEE THAT ?
mircea_popescu: you will roux the day!
ascii_lander: these 'earlies' are ~1000yr apart eh
mircea_popescu: from you you mean ? or from each other ?
ascii_lander: eachother
mircea_popescu: so what's that mean, that they were both riding dinosaurs into combat, big deal.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800912 << this item is not an os at all, if it runs on a machine which is capable, hardware-wise, of more than a no-op.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 09:05 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799861 <-- I dun fully grasp this, so bear with me for a moment. suppose the following (imho no-nonsense) thought experiment: say we have an os, NOP-OS, that works as follows: after initialization, the os loads a (user-provided) program P; the NOP-OS interface exposes to P exactly one system call, "no-op", which does nothing and returns. is then NOP-OS a general-purpose OS? say we add another system
mircea_popescu: if however that os runs on a no-op single instruction cpu, then it is absolutely general purpose.
mircea_popescu: if you modified it so it checked whether the machine temperature is within three degrees of freezing and did not expose the no-op in THAT case, then thereby it would be a general purpose os no longer
mircea_popescu: but instead, it would be a particular-purpose os, "for those cases when the user wants the machine to not be 3 degrees from freezing".
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800914 <<< how it manages user interfacing is not even a consideration here. whether it returns control via pushing that specific-sounding button on the back left like the old tim-s ; or whether it has a software call implemented is irrelevant. not from a gui/ux perspoective, of course, but this is the fucking point of systems design as a discipline : that it does NOT consider other discipl
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 09:05 spyked: call, "exit(code)", which allows P to return control to NOP-OS, so that the user can load another program P'. same question here.
mircea_popescu: ines, and through this separation allows complex, YET STILL SENSIBLE apparata be aggregated.
mircea_popescu: exactly how medicine does not consider whether you were fashionably dressed at the moment of symptoms, to establish whether your sartorial ineptitude maybe upset Sartrus, the god of suits.
mircea_popescu: god knows i have enough trouble as it is remembering what i ate yesterday, if i also had to remember what i was wearing while doing it we could just call it quits.
mircea_popescu: which is exactly what's happening with pre-republican computers.
mircea_popescu: (fun facts for the recently born : 1. most old zx-80 clone programs were games, whether you count by titles, or by total cpu time, or any other way ; 2. they did not return (mostly because to make a good one you had to fuck the kernel space, that zx80 shit was tight), you pressed the reset button to load the next item on the tape.
mircea_popescu: the jury is still out, as far as i'm concerned, on whether the os that loses control of a machine is still an os, meaning it's not altogether clear to me the basic-whatever combo they had at the time actually constitutes an os. but the problem FUCKING ISNT the naive perception at the time, "oh, it didn't hjave icons to click like windows 3.1". windows 3.1 was not an os ; nor was any other windows product an os. microsoft ship
mircea_popescu: ped a "userland package" at all points in its existence, there's no substantial difference between "the office suite" and "windows + the office suite".
trinque: going to reboot the deedbot box; getting about 10kbps out of the thing currently.
trinque: kind of a wonder it's working at all under these conditions
ascii_lander: trinque: out of curiosity -- this is in a heathen dc ? usa ?
trinque: singapore, actually
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2018/04/21-coearn-com-saga-ends-with-coinbase-acquisition/ << aka 'usg.coinbase is the usg-designated bagholder in the space, it'll "buy" all the failed attempts of all usg agencies so the empire of idiots can "save face".'
mircea_popescu: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/04/17/rfc-euloras-communication-protocol-eucomms/ << hey phf, i intend to comission you to write a text-only eulora client on this basis, give a looksee ? an' let me know ?
mircea_popescu: then either phf or someone else can turn that text-only client into a webservice.
mircea_popescu: slash ircbot.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, sooo, did you send login details to douchebag ? what do these cost in the end ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, mg box ?
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: i'ma actually headed to the smg box shortly
ascii_lander: (coffee, then to dc)
ascii_lander: will reconnect from inside the cage.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> aite. << I have been walking alf quite a bit here
mircea_popescu: it's good for him.
mircea_popescu: alf the beedog happines = long walks + icecream stops.
BingoBoingo: Until alf arrived I had been taking the cheese versus petrocheese gulf for granted
mircea_popescu: howssat ?
BingoBoingo: I just kinda forgot petrocheese was a thing with the real stuff here
mircea_popescu: makes two of us.
ascii_lander: i dun even eat petrocheese back home
ascii_lander: but this is at the cost of 'hey i'ma eat a video card'
ascii_lander: whereas here..
ascii_lander finally dressed and now will march out.
trinque: ckang: no, I'll have the deedbot keys pulled down in an hour; they'll then be able to withdraw, whoever can't
trinque: heh that guy the other day might've mentioned he was getting kbps!!!
mircea_popescu: but that'd have been revealing his hand.
mircea_popescu: you don't understand the game of world politics and international intrigue of the web! you're supposed to not tell things! THERES TERRORISTS OUT THERE.
trinque: ah shit, with scary beards even
mircea_popescu: yes. gotta keep your tits close to the chest and the sharpie firmly up butt.
trinque: lol
mircea_popescu: in other news, we're up to 55 titbitpairs
douchebag: haha
trinque: aaaand 10-12% packet loss inside the dc
trinque: the singapore one of course, not pizarro.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800947 <-- I deliberately left the "underneath the OS" bit out because it was not explicitly mentioned in the definition. but yes, in my question I was looking for "specificity", same that's mentioned in http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/06d-what-is-an-os.html#selection-179.0-179.238
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 15:04 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800912 << this item is not an os at all, if it runs on a machine which is capable, hardware-wise, of more than a no-op.
spyked: so, taking anotehr shot at this definition: a general-purpose os is an os that cleanly exposes hardware to user programs, without making assumptions about the latter. it's still not immediately clear to me what "cleanly" means, but this'll have to do.
spyked: anyway, this thread put together should make for a decent follow-up piece, i'ma get to it tomorrow.
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800949 <-- could also be a turing-capable cpu that exposes the instructions natively after the program is loaded. the important part was re what the os itself exposes (or not, in this case) and how this relates to "makes no assumptions about P"
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 15:05 mircea_popescu: if however that os runs on a no-op single instruction cpu, then it is absolutely general purpose.
mircea_popescu: trinque, someone threw a helluva party.
mircea_popescu: spyked, cleanly ie, simplest bijective. 1. all items in A are represented in B ; 2. all items in B have an underlying in A ; 3. there is no simpler relation in any case.
mircea_popescu: spyked, perhaps another useful heuristic is the authority problem. if the specification of a user program CAN include a MUST statement, quo warranto ? if "the os", then it is not general purpose.
mircea_popescu: and perhaps worthy of noting here, that the "trend" "emerging" from usg's own "computer security" roadside act cum flea circus, is towards special-purpose os. because that's what they mean by "security".
mircea_popescu: whereas the one user one box tmsr approach sticks with the general purpose os philosophy, and expects spurious color-of-bits considerations to be implemented in the realm in which they belong -- if you want to own the bits own the box, there shall be no legislating here.
spyked: mircea_popescu, I don't see a fundamental problem with special-purpose os (which is why I mentioned "bitcoin node os" as one, though it *could* in principle be implemented as a particular instance of a general-purpose os). embedded hardware (e.g. requiring timing constriants) is full of them.
spyked: *constraints
mircea_popescu: it all comes down to WHAT is the special purpose. mind that the direction the bitcoin node os is taking is towards ~special purpose hardware~. this is very fucking different, whether you have special purpose hardware run by general purpose osen, or whether you have ibm at clone consumershit emulated into republican sanity by usg's flaour of special purpose os.
mircea_popescu: because in the former case, the VARIOUS gposen would still be in fact different from each other.
mircea_popescu: the confounding factor here is pantsuitist outlook, whereby some retard (the user) regards self as meausre of all things and imagines all vectors start from him, and therefore in his boneheaded approach to the world, "general purpose os" means something about him. it fucking doesn't, a general purpose os isn't one joe schcmucktoe can put on a stick and carry around and "it'll work on all computers he encounters".
mircea_popescu: ye olde sld-7001 (check me out, meanwhile i found it!)'s os is GP, notwithstanding it won't run your "intelligent" lawnmower.
spyked looks
mircea_popescu: so fucking old, citizen itself no longer lists it.
spyked: aha, found nothing on hardware and software specs. mircea_popescu, if it's any similar to the calculators I had as a kid, it might not even have any software (all calculator logic implemented using gates)
mircea_popescu: what, your no-op example is not trivial, but my no-os example is ?
mircea_popescu: 0-lenght os can still be gp.
spyked: well, I didn't say it *doesn't* have an OS. just trying to figure out what that is :D
mircea_popescu: i don't expect it was anything.
mircea_popescu: in fact, 0-length os is guaranteed gp.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, this is too fluid to fix in a comment, and i'd rather have it here than in #eulora. so : let's call eucrypt.serpent X and eucrypt.RSA-OAEP R. now, 1. client wants to log in, R(hello) -> S[erver].
mircea_popescu: at this juncture, server knows "someone" claiming to be A initiated a connection. it should therefore send X(answer) back, where X uses a key that S knows A should have, on the basis of previous comms.
mircea_popescu: if A fails to respond, S will close the connection, practically meaning that A can't claim to be A unless he keeps some X keys about. which is something A-implementers must be aware of.
mircea_popescu: now, if B wants to update his X.keys with the server, he sends them X'd with one of the existing S keys. meaning, again, that if B manages to lose all S's X keys, it lost the account.
mircea_popescu: so implementations MUST keep at least a local and a server X key at all times ; doing otherwise is === deleting the account.
mircea_popescu: this is then the eulora future login handshake : C : hello ; S : new account, here are your keys ; C : here's some keys of mine. they can now continue indefinitely, just as long as nobody loses all the keys.
mircea_popescu: actually, let's make this clearer, it's ambiguous as it stands. C : hello ; S : new account, here are some X keys you can use to decrypt and some X keys you're required to use to encrypt ; C : here's my R key [and here are some X keys i'd prefer to use].
mircea_popescu: which then runs into the obvious problem that i had been chasing all this time : client's R key has to come earlier in the flux. how about the rule that all hello items sent to the server are either a) encrypted to a pre-existing X key or else b) contain a R key ? ie, our helo is not correct as specced.
mircea_popescu: if instead we made it rely on R, there'd be great benefits. consider this alternate model : C : R(hi, this is C.R.key) S : R(here's some X keys for me and for you) C:(actually i'd rather you use these X keys for me).
mircea_popescu: like this, server must not lose its R privkey and clients must not lose their R privkey , but pubkeys of all these can be safely lost, and X keys don't matter at all. seems altogether safer and less friable.
mircea_popescu: now subsidiary for all this : server should generate a batch of X keys and send them to the client every time its store of either S or C X keys drops under a certain value. it's therefore the client responsibility to make sure there's enough keys in store if it doesn't want to pay for key generation. now, what should this threshold be ? 3 ?
mircea_popescu: also important, third question : should the client be permitted to generate X keys for the server ?
ascii_lander reporting live from... inside the cage. fixed the raid oops on smg box; nao partitioning it & copying dulap's gentoo
mircea_popescu: now here's a question on which i'd very much like to hear a lordship oppinion. so, the model currently contemplated for eulora includes a bit whereby the server has to be told by the client a magic string, and will report this back to the client on demand, "here's what you told me you are". the idea is that the client can then sha his binary, and see if the strings match.
mircea_popescu: the reason for this is that games are eminently a domain where people share binaries, a matter of fact established both from general and minigame's own experience. obviously in the sane world of source sharing, v is the correct solution. but if people are going to share binaries, this seems like the only available approach.
mircea_popescu: (one could object, "it's pointless to attempt this, hacked client can just replace magic string", which is true, but nevertheless client can still binary audit his item and see / login with a special, known-good string-test-only client and see what he should be. ie, client can bootstrap himself out of the fakebox produced by a hacked binary.
mircea_popescu: now obviously, this approach wouldn't be nearly as useful for dynamically linked clients ; but i deem the fact that it puts the security incentive on dumping dynamic linking a very good thing.
mircea_popescu: so... thoughts ?
mircea_popescu: !!getratings deedbot
mircea_popescu: !!ratings deedbot
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1801027 --> uhm, for starters this is not correct; initial hello is meant for....initial, no "previous comms" wtf; server needs to reply not with X(answer) but with R(answer) and yes, it needs to know the public rsa key of the account; the creation of accts is still a bit in the air as server needs to get somehow the public key
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 16:50 mircea_popescu: at this juncture, server knows "someone" claiming to be A initiated a connection. it should therefore send X(answer) back, where X uses a key that S knows A should have, on the basis of previous comms.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, well, two kinds of helo, yes ? when initiating a connection ; and when initaitng an account.
diana_coman: the idea was that if client loses all his X keys, he can send a hello message again
diana_coman: uhm, no
diana_coman: ah, you mean the same but just id vs no id?
mircea_popescu: basically.
mircea_popescu: that's what i mean, this is kinda too fluid and i suspect it's because somewhere in my head i conflate two things.
diana_coman: it does seem like you have something else in mind indeed; hm
diana_coman: possibly the "register account" vs "authenticate"
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, in any case strictly speaking, the helo as we spec it does not include R pubkey ; whereas in practice it actually must. but read the whole blob, this is better compiled htan parsed.
diana_coman: I don't quite follow why is server concerned with client's stock of R keys? client can request new keys, burn them, do whatever it wants as it decides how often it wants new keys
diana_coman: why is this server's concern?
mircea_popescu: X keys only ; R key is one. and server is concerned because if it has no client X keys, it can't send, and if the client has no server X keys, the server can't receive.
diana_coman: ugh, meant X there
diana_coman: I don't quite follow why is server concerned with client's stock of X keys? client can request new keys, burn them, do whatever it wants as it decides how often it wants new keys
mircea_popescu: but basically the idea for X keys is to work like that, if you don't have any server makes, if you make them then server uses .
diana_coman: but if you don't know that you don't have...
mircea_popescu: how could the server not know ?
diana_coman: but why does the server *care*? to spare the client the need to ask or what?
mircea_popescu: because it's stuck keeping a list of keys anyway. so it knows how many they are anyway. so might as well send when needed rather than wait to be asked.
diana_coman: so server sets threshold at 3; why can't I decide I want that at 2 and you at 5 and so on
mircea_popescu: you can send as many as you want, the server will keep them for you.
diana_coman: this was lower threshold, lol
mircea_popescu: but if you want less than 3, it'll keep sending you extras until you give up trying to argue with my server.
diana_coman: yes, but...why
mircea_popescu: so no X key thresholds ?
diana_coman: server wants to look after clients so they don't end up without keys; it can, sure; all I'm saying is that I don't quite see the reason for this; perhaps other than "clients are idiots, let's at least avoid the case where they end up going hello hello all the time"
mircea_popescu: seems to me the threshold will practically be set at 1 as a matter of absolute necessity. once that is the case, setting it at 3 is in no substantial way different : just as many keys will be used as before, but the setting at 3 forces key creation at a time prior to when keys are needed, which seems to help with resource load spread.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, kinda 90% of all server code aims to avoid "accidental client ddos".
diana_coman: that makes more sense, yes
mircea_popescu: i don't have this modelled well enough to say it with certainty ; but it seems to me 3 is a reasonable choice.
diana_coman: well, it's certainly not the number I have a problem with anyway
mircea_popescu: but you agree it can never be lower than 1 ?
diana_coman: I'm still not convinced it has to be; if it gets lower than 1 and client hasn't asked, I'd just disconnect them and they can get back with a hello that is low priority and they..w.ait
diana_coman: no ddos anywa
mircea_popescu: yes, but here's the principle : if server knows something will be needed as a certainty, server should act rather than wait to be called to act. which is why it's a server rather than a client.
diana_coman: uhm, dunno about that certainty there; maybe client doesn't want to keep serpent keys between sessions for all I know
mircea_popescu: that's a usestyle we discourage anyway.
mircea_popescu: (for the oursiders : it is the agreement in minigame boardroom that rsa helo packets from existing clients will be lowest priority, after 1. serpent packets and 2. rsa helo packets from unknown clients. the idea is you keep your serpent keys, and continue your "session" whenever, it's kind of a stateless session)\
diana_coman: re creating account: it obviously needs the client's public rsa and atm that one is nowhere in there, yes; I thought you didn't want them in there because it's not just about "a rsa key" but rather one registered with deedbot sort of thing
diana_coman: so it's not enough that client plonks a key in there
mircea_popescu: (it does away with the "is user logged in". you can pm everyone all the time, they're always logged in anyway).
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, one consideration was that if it includes pubkey it will have to be multipacket and i wanted it to be singlepacket for some now incomprehensible reason.
mircea_popescu: but no, seems the correct approach is to replace 3.1.5 with "rsa pubkey". and ACTUALLY use that as the account id.
diana_coman: rsa pubkey if de-facto account id anyway i.e. identifies uniquely one account, yes
diana_coman: if* -> is
mircea_popescu: yeah. it's the only sane identifier to be had.
diana_coman: but to my earlier obs: so you're fine with people creating account with any rsa key (well, tmsr/eucrypt rsa at least) ?
mircea_popescu: i know this isn't how it works now and hasn't been for a long time, but i'm ready to move on!!1
diana_coman: ok, so then there is hello-new-account with the R public key; there are otherwise *only* X messages? and if no X key then ...account lost or can it re-send "new account" and basically retrieve the old one?
mircea_popescu: im thinking it's actually best to have a single helo, with r-pubkey. if it is known to the server then it sends X keys ; if it is not known then... it sends X keys.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, ^
mircea_popescu: re "registered with deedbot" part : i expect in-game trade should be the driver of both rating and registration.
diana_coman: well yes, it is only one, the "hello-new-account" although whether it's "old" or "new"...same difference
diana_coman: but it's needed only when client doesn't have any X keys for whatever reason basically, right?
diana_coman: otherwise there isn't any hello as such, just send directly whatever it wants/needs, encrypted with one of the X keys and that's that
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, ^
mircea_popescu: exactly.
mircea_popescu: if client has at least one server X key it can bootstrap, sending more.
mircea_popescu: if it doesn't, has to helo.
diana_coman: I'll eat the convo again and then update the spec (+link to log ofc) hopefully
mircea_popescu: aite. i really think we have to have someone working at this wall from the other end, hence the original http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800966 comment.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 15:20 mircea_popescu: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/04/17/rfc-euloras-communication-protocol-eucomms/ << hey phf, i intend to comission you to write a text-only eulora client on this basis, give a looksee ? an' let me know ?
diana_coman: certainly; and it goes for the data types too; fwiw I wasn't keen on putting this up precisely because it's a bit in the air as it stands and I expect other issues to emerge at implementation time
mircea_popescu: yes. but hey, this is precisely why god gave us blogs in the first place.
diana_coman: so that now women can BLOG in church!
trinque: lol
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/04/usg-mil-pursues-single-provider-cloud-computing-contract/ << Qntra - USG.MIL Pursues Single Provider "Cloud" Computing Contract
trinque: deedbot will be offline briefly as the DC fixes its networking situation
mircea_popescu: ima be off to town. bbl
douchebag: Hey trinque I don't mean to bother you, but with the various deedbot issues
douchebag: I was just making sure withdrawls for those girls yesterday went through properly - no rush getting them processed
trinque: I have 7 in the hopper for this evening.
douchebag: Sounds good man, thanks
trinque: the !!pay wasn't broken, just !!balance and !!withdraw
trinque: sure, np.
douchebag: I think that's really awesome way how you do withdrawls though
douchebag: In terms of security
trinque: well and I have to admit that leaning on it exposed that the !!register service was weak (albeit weak meaning "couldn't survive 10kbps wire with packet loss")
trinque: so thanks for that
douchebag: Yeah no problem, glad I could bring that to your attention
douchebag: So trinque, what is it exactly that got you interested in programming/networking/sysadmin stuff? What sort of things interested you the most and motivated you to keep learning?
trinque: mmm, got my dad's computer stuck in DOS back in the win95 days playing a game. I was about 7-8? he was away on a trip, so I had 2 days to "fix the computer" or certain asswhippin. found the thing in win.ini or w/e it was, changed it, avoided wrath.
trinque: clicked in my head that "oh, *this* is what the computer is for. change the text, and it does something different."
trinque: that's about it, really. pretty african origin story compared to the 80s kids
douchebag: Interesting
trinque: after that somebody bought me a "make your own game!" basic interpreter of some sort
douchebag: Yeah, can you believe last year I had to take a QBasic 4.5 class
trinque: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/book.pdf << here, have one of these then.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1801097 <- mircea_popescu looking at it again from all sides I think the consideration is not necessarily misplaced in itself i.e. multi-packet there does make a mess out of the neat "these are the only *packets* you may ever send"; this being said though, I don't quite see the solution that would *also* preserve the desired "whatever it is, server responds the same: with a set of X keys"
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 17:55 mircea_popescu: diana_coman, one consideration was that if it includes pubkey it will have to be multipacket and i wanted it to be singlepacket for some now incomprehensible reason.
diana_coman: and at any rate, we end up with a "hello" packet that is the first one, containing version of comms protocol and client id string and all that jazz but *at most* some bits of the key only, followed by... more packets with the remaining, chopped-up public rsa key
diana_coman: alternatively the hello message stays single-packet and uses a keccak hash of the public key (n,e,comment) as "account ID" so 3.1.5; then key is sent via Data packages and basically I need to define another type for RSA public key; server can ask/expect the RSA key *every time* to preserve same answer behaviour or otherwise only if it doesn't know the key
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800966 << i'll start reading the spec, i was already planning on writing my own version of client
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 15:20 mircea_popescu: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/04/17/rfc-euloras-communication-protocol-eucomms/ << hey phf, i intend to comission you to write a text-only eulora client on this basis, give a looksee ? an' let me know ?
lobbes will gladly test a phf-made eulora text client
lobbes: main thing putting me off from playing more frequently has been the graphics requirement.
trinque: ok, thing's back up and I'm getting quite a bit more speed from the pipe.
BingoBoingo: Sweet trinque
trinque: hopefully that'll be enough fiddling to let me get back to migrating to pizarro, BingoBoingo !
ascii_lander: phunphakt : when you give 'exclude' option to tar, it excludes RECURSIVELY all files having that name, regardless of depth. this cost us 6 or so hrs today.
ascii_lander: re smg.
ascii_lander ended up N times with broken copy of gentoo and no way to determine why other than exhaustive grunting
BingoBoingo: The grunting was loud
ascii_lander: ACHTUNG, mircea_popescu , diana_coman : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7Xjpf/?raw=true
ascii_lander: plox to ack asap
ascii_lander bbl, had vehehehery long day down here in the bunker
phf: lobbes: same for me, i don't have the right machine to eulora. i tried rebuilding my mac homebrew version recently and it's all kinds of broken since the update a year or so ago
lobbes: listen, I'm gonna have to put you under a roast for punishing the logs with these puny puns >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1800942
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 15:01 mircea_popescu: you will roux the day!
mircea_popescu: !Q ascii_lander ok.
mircea_popescu: !Q later tell ascii_lander ok.
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
douchebag: lets see if lobbesbot learned something from ol douchebag
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1801135 >> maybe actually putting a blogpost up with a detailed and illustrated description of the process might be a good idea, both for deedbot and for tmsr in general. i don't think many people even realise security is a thing.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 19:46 douchebag: I think that's really awesome way how you do withdrawls though
douchebag: You're right about that
mircea_popescu: no further than earlier over coffee, girl proposed that during her stay in $us.shithole she "tried getting into beer" because well... gotta have an activity and there was no good alcohool available, except for this beer that didn't utterly suck. so i said, "why not make a still", and she said "baring divine intervention...."
mircea_popescu: what fucking divine intervention, a still is $15 in household equipment, get one of those rice cookers or w/e pot warmers, wirth digital temperature adjustment. set it for 79C, stick an erlenmeyer glass in there with a cork and a bent tube coming out, put an ice pack over the tube and voila! whatever southern confort goes in, 195 or so proof alcohol comes out.
mircea_popescu: put it in oj or w/e. but this apparently was divine intervention, half hour's labour worth of parts and half hour's worth of work assembling them together.
mircea_popescu: in short, i don't think esltards even vaguely remember YOU CAN DO THINGS.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1801142 << pretty great story. not to mention the obvious moral : "are you ruining your child's chances to a future by failing to provide a safe learning environment for him through your limp wristed inability to create a clear and present threat to violent bodily harm ?"
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 19:55 trinque: clicked in my head that "oh, *this* is what the computer is for. change the text, and it does something different."
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1801146 << the reason teachers keep pushing wirth's abomination upon students is that they're trying to teach them ada but don't know the word for it.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 20:03 douchebag: Yeah, can you believe last year I had to take a QBasic 4.5 class
douchebag: haha
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-17#1801151 << myeah. there's no way out of it, helo packet will have to be multi-packet. sad but true.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-17 20:39 diana_coman: and at any rate, we end up with a "hello" packet that is the first one, containing version of comms protocol and client id string and all that jazz but *at most* some bits of the key only, followed by... more packets with the remaining, chopped-up public rsa key
a111: Logged on 2018-04-18 00:59 phf: lobbes: same for me, i don't have the right machine to eulora. i tried rebuilding my mac homebrew version recently and it's all kinds of broken since the update a year or so ago
ckang: evening all.
phf: i think alcohol production is forbidden in u.s. by a divine inca decree, so there's only two ways of doing it, in a redneck bathtub, while being redneck, or using hadron collider, like a civilized store alcohol supplier.
ckang: or you get a fuel permit ;)
trinque: I dunno if it was legal or not, but buddy in highschool made his own beer in his bedroom.
trinque: it was.. yeasty
ckang: beer and wine is legal
ckang: its distilled stuff it gets sketchy
ckang: in general they wont really mess with you unless you are selling and being 'loud'
ckang: assuming its in your home
mircea_popescu: phf, can always do it in lab glass.
mircea_popescu: it won't make commercial amounts, but even the smallest still can outpour your gullet.
mircea_popescu: also it's not properly production, merely fractional distillation of last pass. you're just taking the BBAV/BAC/whatever shitstilleries out of your cup.
phf: it's a question of perception though, i'm commenting on the mechanics of learned helplessness
ckang: these are a pretty good value overall
mircea_popescu: ckang, yes, but that's too calorically bulky to work for the proposed use here.
ckang: do it under a vacuum :)
mircea_popescu: copper stills are great for taking mash (0.x - 7% or so alcohol) to spirit (30-40% or so). they're terrible for trying the 30-50% to 95% part.
ckang: wrong kind of still ofc
ckang: but takes much less watts to start producing
mircea_popescu: i suppose you could get a custom made resistor + multi-spot thermometers and push a point.
ckang: yea a simple DIN PID controller with RTD (pt100/pt1000) would be pretty solid even
mircea_popescu: anyway. i come from a country where 1l 196 proof is ~4 dollars, sold in convenience stores.
ckang: denatured ?
ckang: wow lol
mircea_popescu: women make visinata / etc home cordials and so on.
ckang: many alcoholics?
mircea_popescu: ask hanbot she loved it lol.
mircea_popescu: ckang, it's eastern people, genetic alcohol immunity.
ckang: ah
phf: everyone has their own special "nastoyka"
ckang: but yea at 4$ a liter, no point in making your own
mircea_popescu: ckang, ppl do actually, many older folk own a quarter acre of plumtrees or so, make their own 45-52% "tuica".
ckang: I want to say 1.75L is like 35$ or so for 190 here
phf: a friend solved the problem of sourcing proper alcohol for nastoyka here by working at NIH.
ckang: I never got that alcohol bug like some do though
douchebag: me neither
mircea_popescu: ckang, where is here ?
ckang: USA
mircea_popescu: yeah, well. ro avg wage is like $7k/year or such.
phf: mircea_popescu: that's the romanian word for nastoyka? i know polaks calls it nalewka
douchebag: !!up h00k3r
deedbot: h00k3r voiced for 30 minutes.
ckang: I thought about getting a fuel permit
h00k3r: tits
ckang: but it requires an on site inspection etc
mircea_popescu: phf, not really drunk as such. it's either the plum thing, or else the sour cherry thing, basically. not really herbing.
trinque: these creatures must be monosyllabic on "discord"
douchebag: !!up Poka_
deedbot: Poka_ voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: h00k3r, e55094aa. half hour.
mircea_popescu: Poka_, d356dbbd, same.
mircea_popescu: trinque, discord being an audio channel, it dun encourage much more conversation than its forerunner, the car radio.
mircea_popescu: i suspect that's the driver, people couldn't get enough of bad talk radio and commutes.
mod6: <+ascii_lander> phunphakt : when you give 'exclude' option to tar, it excludes RECURSIVELY all files having that name, regardless of depth. this cost us 6 or so hrs today. << Jeeze, sorry you guys had some battles today, glad you persevered tho!
trinque: yeah, also serves as an inverse aa. "huhuh are you smoking pot? I'm gonna smoke some pot"
mircea_popescu: yeah, i noticed this, given present supply of pot the herbivores really need encouragement.
ckang: lol
trinque: meanwhile Poka_ says to himself "b-but I had theorems to share!"
ckang: hopefully not a him
ckang: lol
mircea_popescu: would help if they didn't share ips eh.
mircea_popescu: "fuck that, what, i just happen to raid on a hooker's hotspot, why stereotite!"
deedbot: CF422340903BCD3D374D639E837E72EA0DB8C5A7 registered as h00k3r.
Poka_: !!register http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xZWAi/?raw=true
deedbot: C9E2D60F11B27BC30B5D62DF5CFD3308E9EE82BC registered as Poka_.
phf: i've noticed in my travels that north of bay area, california is pot country. whole towns are nothing but dispenseries, mcdonalds*, token hippie store, and gas station.
trinque: give the !!pay a sec
phf: i mean, town after town after town. the impression is kind of the same as northern pa, trenton new jerson area, which is on the other hand the meth capital of u.s.
phf: *new jersey
mircea_popescu: phf, whereas south, meth ?
mircea_popescu: trinque, aite, you say
trinque: runnin a deploy, almost done
phf: no idea, haven't been. i suspect it's a cleaner for longer stretches, i.e. south of bay area, north of los angeles
ckang: mircea_popescu: veronicalol's had issues, not sure if it was the bot stuff earlier or if it just didnt go through
mircea_popescu: phf, bakersfield...
mircea_popescu: ckang, nah, missed the batch ; will get in next one.
h00k3r: is this fine?
phf: it's the same shock i had when i traveled in rust belt a decade ago and discovered that nobody's working and everyone's on drugs.
mircea_popescu: h00k3r, works.
trinque: ckang: that one she's got a withdraw sitting there waiting for OTP
mircea_popescu: phf, kinda why the old man's pipe dream is so lulzy. srsly, make it great again ? da fuck what with ?!?
trinque: probably otp confirm didn't work when the pipe was clogged
mircea_popescu: trinque, i actually didn't confirm it as she came in after i was off to bed.
mircea_popescu: will do her with these other ones.
trinque: ah ok
ckang: !!up driscole
deedbot: driscole voiced for 30 minutes.
driscole: Hi, here for picture.
mircea_popescu: driscole, 1b8914a1. half hour.
trinque: douchebag: are you trying to own the gpg on the wallet box?
trinque: or what
douchebag: no, look at both gpg keys
trinque: what am I looking for here
douchebag: no clue why they're not importing
trinque: somehow their public keys aren't properly signed
trinque: lol you know, I make reg transactional for the crackhos, and then!
trinque: maybe you can hang out at ckang's discord instead
douchebag: They're importing fine for me
ben_vulpes: douchebag: what on earth gpg version are they using?
douchebag: gpg (GnuPG) 2.1.18
douchebag: libgcrypt 1.7.8
mircea_popescu: we actually found a breaking 2.x/1.4 change ?
trinque hasn't a clue yet
h00k3r: !!balance
ben_vulpes: driscole: cute
trinque: douchebag: well yeah, key refused to import
driscole: ben_vulpes: TY
mircea_popescu: driscole, what do you do for a living ?
douchebag: alright let me make her a new key
trinque: nah
trinque: the key imported elsewhere, but not on this particular gpg
trinque: give me a sec
driscole: mircea_popescu: I work as a bar back, in training to be a bar tender
mircea_popescu: driscole, but you do realise you wrote 1d8914a not 1b8914a1 ?
ben_vulpes: haha shaaaaame
driscole: omg, no :( dyslexia
mircea_popescu: driscole, add a 1 do again.
mircea_popescu: it's always 8 digits, btw. never 7.
phf: fuzzing by whore, you should write it up douchebag, new fuzzing methodology, get it into toorcon
trinque: it apparently totally works
douchebag: hahahahaha
trinque: !!up h00k3r
deedbot: h00k3r voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: try balance again
h00k3r: !!balance
trinque: not that you've been paid yet
trinque: great.
trinque: ok, problem's a fucking missing newline
mircea_popescu: phf, it's genuinely not bad.
douchebag: !!up Poka_
deedbot: Poka_ voiced for 30 minutes.
Poka_: https://i.imgur.com/94mvvbT.jpg
mircea_popescu: trinque, so can i !!pay ? my buffer's getting filled up
trinque: yeah, !!pay away
mircea_popescu: !!pay h00k3r 0.02
h00k3r: ty!
mircea_popescu: mah pleasure.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/auto-oracion-y-otras-temas/ << Trilema - Auto Oracion y otras temas
douchebag: !!up anotherhooker
deedbot: anotherhooker voiced for 30 minutes.
h00k3r: titties!
anotherhooker: titties!
mircea_popescu: anotherhooker, 95449401. half hour.
deedbot: FB63856CD1B96E58DE49C0D6390022FBA9B92F07 registered as anotherhooker.
mircea_popescu: douchebag, seriously btw, writing the whole thing up, exactly as phf suggests, submitting it as paper/speaking gig to conferences, not even HALF bad idea.
mircea_popescu: you'll be famous in an afternoon.
douchebag: Oh yeah that would be quite hilarious yet interesting
trinque: aaah the damned clock is askew on the wallet
trinque: this matters for reasons
douchebag: Never thought crackwhores improve IRC bots
douchebag: shoutout to all the crackwhores
mircea_popescu: douchebag, im sure trinque will help you with some reasonable details to give it enough meat once you have the general structure drafted.
trinque will readily admit he has readjusted his sense of the usefulness of the hos
douchebag: lmao
trinque: !!up driscole
deedbot: driscole voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: anybody got one more? I wanna see the reg work all the way through.
mircea_popescu: !!pay driscole 0.02
douchebag: Maybe trying to find out of these sluts have friends
mircea_popescu: that looks written in blood... hey, what did you do before whoring, anotherhooker ?
mircea_popescu: !!pay anotherhooker 0.02
h00k3r: I had a cheating husband
douchebag: wrong window
douchebag: sry man got these hoes on the same laptop
mircea_popescu: so what, housewife turns to brothel life ?
anotherhooker: sounds nuts but yes
trinque: gotta say, that error message out of gpg is trash.
mircea_popescu: pretty harsh.
mircea_popescu: anotherhooker, maybe you should write out the story.
trinque: driscole: got any friends that want to drop by?
ckang: trinque: working on it :)
trinque: also, you should all be able to !!withdraw , and lmk if not.
mircea_popescu: lol, the texan favours the teenybopper crowd.
ckang: i love her look
mircea_popescu: trinque, not yet lol, i've not pushed the v batch.
trinque: yeah dude. not bad.
ben_vulpes: driscole: is that heart covering something up?
mircea_popescu: so ask her over, what. who knows. everyone needs a vacation spot.
anotherhooker: my husband got me into drugs and then cheated on me with another woman, and eventually it just took me over and i became a whore just like her
driscole: ben_vulpes: Yes, a name :)
ben_vulpes: ahaaa
mircea_popescu: anotherhooker, did he pimp you out, too ?
anotherhooker: no i left him before i started doing this
mircea_popescu: anotherhooker, could i interest you in reading a story of mine ?
h00k3r: i like stories sure
ben_vulpes: crickets
mircea_popescu: are you kidding me, it's long.
ben_vulpes: certainly a riveting tale
ben_vulpes: nono, not no response, apparently engrossed.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : this chan is now 1/3 whore by mass.
mircea_popescu: ONLY TIME IN IRC HISTORY THIS WAS THE FACTUAL TRUTH OF THE MATTER. EV4R.
douchebag: lmfaoooo
mircea_popescu: toxicfaxts.
trinque: it's almost christlike in here
trinque: danielpbarron go get 'em
mircea_popescu: in other-other lulz : torrentmaster's new uberbox (that trinque graciously helped with) is in business, doing a glorious 10MB/s of the early trilema films -- that's about 4% of its pipe or so. in a week or two it will contain the complete list.
mircea_popescu: i'm spending on it 3x what the average suburban douchebag spends on his car, it's true, but i count it as a mitzvah : this way, the films that matter have a better shot at survival than the films that don't.
trinque: awesome. glad you're enjoying it!
ben_vulpes: bless you, sir
mircea_popescu: douchebag, no relation meant :D
mircea_popescu: !~calc 1024**3 / 8 * 3600 * 24 * 365 / 765 * 1024**2
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1024**3 / 8 * 3600 * 24 * 365 / 765 * 1024**2 = 5801695990553756672
ben_vulpes: i just reluctantly watched seth rogen's "comedy for charity" special thing, and aside from the predictably bad-because-too-short-because-format-demands-it standup "bits", i think he misses a golden opportunity to do a sketch where god scolds him for doing charity so damnably self-aggrandizingly
mircea_popescu: i kid you not, 5.8 e+18 copies available per year!
douchebag: Who are you calling a douchebag?
douchebag: Better not be me!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, i think the average pantsuit can't do a good job on the topic of charity for fear such'd be tantamount to i dunno, having voted for trump. there's some fields in which the pantsuit perceive a need to be incredibly retarded for ingroup reasons.
mircea_popescu: sorta like golddiggers have to pretend to not understand money.
ckang: !!up rittah
deedbot: rittah voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: rittah, 28366c3a. you gots... half hour.
anotherhooker: that is quite the story
mircea_popescu: anotherhooker, it actually has two more parts. but i'm glad you enjoyed.
mircea_popescu: now write your own! with any luck, you're gonna be the next harry potter and ima be rid of that damnable bullshit.
mircea_popescu: !!up anotherhooker
deedbot: anotherhooker voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!rate anotherhooker 1 housewife turns to brothel life. harsh!
mircea_popescu: oh i fucked up my calc duh.
mircea_popescu: !~calc 1024**3 / 8 * 3600 * 24 * 365 / 765 / 1024**2
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1024**3 / 8 * 3600 * 24 * 365 / 765 / 1024**2 = 5276611.764705882
mircea_popescu: 5.27mn copies. more like it.
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-18#1801393 << so what if he did? a guy can't get a second wife?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-18 03:22 anotherhooker: my husband got me into drugs and then cheated on me with another woman, and eventually it just took me over and i became a whore just like her
trinque: the drugs part sounds like not a side matter
danielpbarron: drugs also not inherently bad
mircea_popescu: but she wasn't saying inherently anything. she saying it didn't work for her.
danielpbarron: sounds like making up excuses to be an adulterous drug addict
mircea_popescu: guy can take as many wives as he wants, but when the outcome's this guy fucked up somewhere neh.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627514 << reminds me of this thread actually. I see it differently now.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 17:49 trinque: man, if I think back on all the women I cast away, and they were all in this room
mircea_popescu: !!pay rittah 0.02
mircea_popescu: so what do you do for a living, rittah ?
rittah: atm i play WoW and fortnite :x
rittah: so I guess a gamer
mircea_popescu: what, and sell the gold to the chinese ?
rittah: nope, tips on twitch
mircea_popescu: are you any good ?
rittah: does it matter? :)
mircea_popescu: just curious.
rittah: i'm pretty good though
mircea_popescu: can you say, take athene ?
mircea_popescu: THE BEST PALADIN IN THE WORLD!!! ?
rittah: no i'm a priest lol
mircea_popescu: healslut or just priest ?
rittah: pallys are pretty OP
rittah: healslut, i like that
mircea_popescu: do you know the guy i'm talking about ? total lulzcow.
rittah: i don't, does he stream?
mircea_popescu: rittah, there's a whole subculture, girls who express their submissive side by healing tanks/dps. sometimes also by showing up at natparties to be chained under the table for penis service.
mircea_popescu: oh let me find it.
mircea_popescu: dude's epic.
rittah: 2007 holy crap
rittah: i completely forgot the game is so old
mircea_popescu: it's older than that. anyway, i've never seen a woman as embarassed as his gf in some other of his vlogs.
mircea_popescu: (chick later ran for whatever denmark local thing , under pirate party banner. afaik lost)
rittah: the game is too addictive, or im easily addicted lol
rittah: have you tried fortnite?
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/cel-mai-bun-paladin-din-the-world/ << should prolly translate sometime. anyway moar vids.
mircea_popescu: rittah, never have. all i play these days is eulora.
rittah: oh, not heard of that one
ben_vulpes: you know trinque it'd be neat if deedbot would pm folks upon invoicing
trinque: yep, I have that in a list o' mine
ben_vulpes: neato
trinque: also boop the invoicer when paid/rejected
ben_vulpes: similarly neat
mircea_popescu: !!rate rittah 1 pretty good she says, though she still can't take athene.
mircea_popescu: !!up kloecat
deedbot: kloecat voiced for 30 minutes.
kloecat: 😀
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