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← 2017-03-13 | 2017-03-15 → ↓
mod6: <mircea_popescu> list of items for mod6's convenience : 1) nice job! 2) successive presses overfil .gitignore and possibly other files 3) deps directory should prolly be same level as patches and .seals<< sorry you encountered some issues on 2nd press. Thanks for your comments. Duly noted.
mod6: Sounds like you got it compiled and working, for this, I'm glad.
mircea_popescu: yah smooth as buttar.
mod6: Nice. I've got mine built too with 'wires'. Just need to get a minute to hook it up to alf's node.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i could make that read 5k by pushing a switch. idiots have nfi, counting all the ips you feel like exposing.
mircea_popescu: mod6 consider patching .gitignore out altogether next release, not like it's used
mod6: it's only current use, is that it allows directories not to be removed.
mod6: long ago, we all talked about this. and perhaps it is time to prune these directories. but at the time, it was decided to leave them as-is
mircea_popescu: im not current on this. got a link ?
mod6: let me dig it up -- bumeanwhile, it's regarding src/obj, src/obj/nogui, src/obj/test
mod6 goes to dig
mod6: Well, there are a bunch of references...
mod6: !#s .gitignore
a111: 28 results for ".gitignore", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=.gitignore
mod6: I'll pull some ...
a111: Logged on 2015-09-24 00:25 mod6: <+phf> shinohai: you probably have rm_gitignore.patch applied, which removes .gitignore files from src/obj/nogui and nukes the folders along the way? << i said to disregard this patch. reason is, it wipes out output dirs required by the bitcoin makefile.
mod6: (and by bitcoin makefile, this meant 'makefile.unix' in the src directory)
a111: Logged on 2015-07-19 21:31 ben_vulpes: mod6: re gitkeeps do we even know why those empty dirs are necessary for a succesful compile?
mircea_popescu: oh oh i remember now what this all was.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-19 22:04 mod6: <+phf> ben_vulpes: because makefile.unix expects them, (search for obj/nogui/%.o: %.cpp, etc.) << ben_vulpes yeah this stuff
mod6: yup, exactly.
mircea_popescu: makefile bs. alright, well, i guess we'll need a test for file exists or some such hair.
mircea_popescu: i suppose alternatively could just say DO NOT PRESS TWICE! DELETE DIR BETWEEN PRESSES.
mircea_popescu: if you move /deps/ that'll work fine.
mod6: but I think now that we have the outside makefiles integrated and working well, maybe we can prune out those dirs and create them as needed? certainly worth looking into. certainly would be nice to get rid of those things finally
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> i suppose alternatively could just say DO NOT PRESS TWICE! DELETE DIR BETWEEN PRESSES. << agree. there obviously needs to be a check in there - if the press directory already exists, warn the user and stop.
mircea_popescu: something like that yeah.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> if you move /deps/ that'll work fine. << this part is a bit more tricky. but might be possible.
ben_vulpes: i'd rather it were transparently idempotent.
mircea_popescu: are you playing with your cereal ?
ben_vulpes: sorry. i'd rather it rip out the press target if it existed.
mod6: just automagically blow it away and create a new one?
mircea_popescu: also not a bad way to go about it.
ben_vulpes: seems the cleanest, least error prone thing to do.
ben_vulpes: warning and stopping doesn't really help, as i see it.
mircea_popescu: imagine if pregnancy worked this way. get girl pregnant, fuck her again a month later get her pregnant again, except timer reset.
mod6: blowing away someones dir without notice seems like the wrong approach, no matter how clean it might seem.
mircea_popescu: would give "monastery" a whole new meaning.
ben_vulpes: i ~never touch "pressed" source
ben_vulpes: what would the point be? destroys press integrity.
ben_vulpes: "oh i took this priceless jewel and scribbled my name in it"
mod6: hmm.
mod6: i just wanna be considerate before agreeing to this. i'll think on it.
ben_vulpes: no rush
mircea_popescu: mod6 well you delete his files, but he can regenerate them anyway, is the idea.
mod6: yeah, im maybe considering the bad-form-case where someone modifies the source of a pressed directory, forgets about his changes, comes back 12 years later, then re-presses over said changes, now lost.
mod6: but maybe this is just that, a bad-form-case. do not do this.
mircea_popescu: he wouldn't keep them in any case
mircea_popescu: i mean, wtf would it be, how'd he know what of his changes were kept in the first place
ben_vulpes: "if it's not backed up, it's clearly not important"
mod6: there would be nothing to denote any said changes in a pressed directory.
mod6: ok. im with it.
mod6: this change is pretty trivial. probably will update V99994 before it comes out (was about to release this weekend). will need to add at least an automated test too. not a big deal.
mod6: the harder part is trying to move 'deps' ..//..
mod6: da faq. '../../..'
mod6: anyway. ya, something to look at.
mod6: interestingly, i just tried moving 'bin', 'deps', and 'build' and all of their makefiles + a few small tweaks up ../../.. and was able to build.
mod6: problem will be with pressing and a vpatch. press wants to put everything underneath of the given press directory. not place contents adjacent to a press directory.
mod6: so that'll be the next thing to take a look at.
mod6: ('bin', 'build', 'deps', being adjacent, meaning, along side of 'patches', '.seals', 'v.pl', etc.)
mod6: this would leave, for instance, a 'trb' output press directory along side of the above stated dirs. of which, all that would be contained in there is a bitcoin directory, and the underlying 'src' directory.
trinque: nah makefile can make those dirs if absent
trinque: this is the kind of thing I provided defaults for, like what your copy of your checksum proggie is
trinque: could do the same for deps path, provide some default, and if you want something else:
trinque: make DEPS=/wherever/I/stick/it
trinque: whole idea is to get them outside the press, so you don't have to copy them in each time you press
trinque: I tend to have a couple trees pressed right next to each other, when testing a patch, when writing my own
mod6: hmm.
trinque: could just drag deps/Makefile into the root Makefile, and put the dep-files someplace else
mod6: that's fine. could just reference something like: ../../../deps/*.asc or something
mod6: but having it set up as i just did in the above paste is unpressable in current vtronics.
mod6: so yeah, something other than what I did is preferred (at least to me).
trinque: makefile would make the dir, maybe ~/trb-deps as default, or w/e
trinque: then they can sit there for the rest of your life and that's that
mod6: so either user creates ~/trb-deps and then pulls all .asc's from deedbot manually in offline mode. or makefile creates ~/trb-deps and pulls .asc files in `make ONLINE=1` mode and dumps files in there.
trinque: sounds pretty sane to me
mod6: ok. i think we've got something we can work with. :]
a111: Logged on 2017-03-03 17:25 asciilifeform: ( https://blockchain.info/tx/5da9e054f81716ff54fefa10fae3c025685faf5170d1b270b3384a3406d781e0 << typical example of tx spamola, in recent few blox. and yes i'd rather link to mimisbrunnr but it does not seem to have linkable tx knob presently. )
davout: asciilifeform: what's your rigorous criterion for spamolitude?
mircea_popescu: mod6 no, JUST /deps/
mircea_popescu: and in other news, anyone with a background in sales who's damned good at it want a job ?
mircea_popescu: b2b, not consumer.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, guess wat mircea_popescu , meet usg's vapourware uci ! : https://golem.network
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
mircea_popescu: eh, im sure there's 500
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, panzers! ben_vulpes , trinque : trb node at dulap will be unavailable for next ~hour .
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, panzers! ben_vulpes , trinque : dulap is back.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/how-i-almost-created-a-constellation-of-bitcoin-nodes/ << Trilema - How I almost created a constellation of Bitcoin nodes
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: 8th item empty ^
mircea_popescu: heh <li> rather than </li>
mircea_popescu: fixt thanks
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5430D04B21F3EE28C51D7E1867FF1BCCBE4E8BF96D45617959BA1E68E225521B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 43 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '67.49.219.148 (ssh-rsa key from 67.49.219.148 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (cpe-67-49-219-148.socal.res.rr.com. US)
asciilifeform: not so many of these.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: re. blackholing and to be alf-pessimistic for a second, node is exposed to risk of being blackholed as long as it uses TCP; because not only can enemy make it read packets (unavoidable in the end it seems), but there may be ways to making it send packets back.
Framedragger: of making*
Framedragger: (i guess "silently drop connections" (TCP DROP) from any non-whitelisted IP is one way around it, sorta.)
Framedragger: (this is just to juxtapose topics of trb and gossipd for a second and to maybe show why some folks really like the lighthouse idea) :)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: the problem with tcp isn't simply that enemy can insert an RST packet and make you blame your peer. (and whitelists do 0 against this.) but that it is very expensive , computationally, long before you have any idea who you're talking to.
asciilifeform: ( you gotta reserve memory, for state, and cpu cycles to handle the socket )
Framedragger: asciilifeform: hm, sure. (and i forgot about arbitrary RSTs by anyone in the path which destroy the session, heh.) do you know how the resource allocation compares to udp in a typical (say, linux kernel) networking stack?
Framedragger: i'm sure it's less than that especially as you don't need to save state/session info
asciilifeform: udp is stateless
Framedragger: yes that i know, but you still gotta reserve things to parse things...
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 no, JUST /deps/ << ok.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: on just about any reasonable unixlike, you can receive udp at the rate your nic can dish'em out
asciilifeform: nothing is reserved per-packet other than the buffer where you put it (which is normally the same buffer for each incoming packet)
Framedragger: aha. it's funny this little difference is 'forgotten' in most tutorials etc. heh.
asciilifeform: ideally i wouldn't use udp per se, but udp-with-altered-protocol-number, per mircea_popescu's ancient idea
asciilifeform: so as to be able to make a box that silently drops garden-variety udp spamola, if any comes
asciilifeform: ( but to make alt-udp you gotta patch the kernel. )
Framedragger: asciilifeform: can you not use raw sockets (with some kind of linux cap to allow program to open them without root), defining udp-like struct within? (i'm sure performance tuning may not be easy, i mean to achieve same level of optimisation as in kernel stack)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: this is the raw device thread again, isnnit.
asciilifeform: no i don't want to throw away what little separation linux provides.
asciilifeform: if i did, i'd stuff whole thing into the kernel.
asciilifeform: ( and skip the cost of the cpu ring switching )
Framedragger: fair enough.
Framedragger: also, ip packets with custom proto number would (1) stand out more easily to enemy, and could be more easily filtered out (vs. udp header with rng-data within) - see how chinese firewall blocked tor bridges etc etc; and (2) i'm sure quite a few appliances would filter them out by default (like how they filter out icmp, etc.)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: remember, we aren't usg, don't have to STANDARDIZE FOR ALL TIME!!!111
asciilifeform: folx can use whatever protocol number they want, so long as other end knows it.
Framedragger: suresure, so maybe can choose to fuck (2).
Framedragger: ah, you mean in that sense - sure.
asciilifeform: if masquerading as, e.g., dns crapola, becomes important, then can set udp's
asciilifeform: if rejecting udp spamola -- then != udp's. etc
Framedragger: yeah. fixed 512 byte packet length udp, etc.
asciilifeform: the important thing is to throw tcp straight into the shitcan where it belongs.
Framedragger: (one day i'll dup up logs why tae fuck mircea_popescu allegedly filters out udp by default)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: iirc he gets multimegatonne udp-amplified spamolade regularly.
Framedragger: dig up*
asciilifeform: (from pwned konsoomer routers and such, organized into chumpnets)
Framedragger: how do you amplify udp? i guess application-layer-specific stuff like bittorrent's uTP (which has some amplification vuln shit iirc), etc.; also, dns
asciilifeform: Framedragger: 'amplified udp' refers to egregiously idiotic konsoomer appliances that send N udp packets 'back in reply' in response to 1 incoming. which of course has forged return addr.
asciilifeform: (i.e. victim's)
Framedragger: lol, internet of amazing.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: it would not exist if it were not for silently complicit isps that route forged packets
Framedragger: asciilifeform: forged as in e.g. where source ip addr != actual source?
asciilifeform: well unless you are a telepath, you don't know 'actual source'
Framedragger: well if you're the first hop..
asciilifeform: BUT you in many cases ~do~ know that a given packet could not have originated from the supposed return addr.
asciilifeform: or, often, second, etc.
Framedragger: ah right, that, too.
asciilifeform: folx who route it anyway -- are complicit in ddosism.
Framedragger: yeah, good stuff, thanks ISPs
asciilifeform: i suspect -- deliberately.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: in the old #bitcoin-assets days, there was a bot, that idled under (afaik still unknown) names, and would target ddostron (used vulnerable konsoomer router 'upnp' for udp amplification) at anyone who logged in without using fleanode's 'cloak' feature (i.e. had visible ip).
asciilifeform: this went on for, iirc, a year or so, then got tired.
Framedragger: aha, good stuff, i guess the point is that this kind of ddos is *easy*.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: ddos as a concept relies on something having a 'the ip'
asciilifeform: if instead your box is an octopus of ip, and none of the clients have any business knowing ~all~ of the tentacles, the concept dissolves.
asciilifeform: ( it is, for instance, impractical to ddos -- at least in the usual packet flood sense - 1,000 machines. or it would be the preferred form of attack against bitcoin, which it is not )
Framedragger: heh that's why for logging i proposed http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/irc_logging.txt which includes some 'hidden' nodes. but, fleanode and irc are leaky and the whole 'cloaking' thing is snakeoil.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: btw regarding bitcoin, sure re. 1000 machines but if/when there's only 15 or however many trb nodes....
asciilifeform: at any given time, a few of these are ddosed.
asciilifeform: but, notice, never all.
Framedragger: i think it makes sense, thinking of the future, to eventually move to a model where there is no 'public trb node ip list'.
Framedragger: (i'm sure not an original idea at all)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: 'not having a list' is not a pill against enumeration, considering how bitcoin is fundamentally a 'promiscuous' syphilitic whore protocol
asciilifeform: for so long as the nodes actually 'serve all-comers', they can be enumerated.
asciilifeform: (and on the edges of the graph, you're stuck talking to heathens unless mining were somehow brought into the fold)
Framedragger: ..which means that the latter should be dropped eventually, i guess (but then cue my question 'why not just work on trb-i if no compatibility with heathen prb network')
Framedragger: right, right.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 13:38 asciilifeform: to wind it up, the casks algo is asciilifeform's attempt at the 'high vacuum pump' from earlier -- to get the max possible removal of something-to-allcomers element , to the extent possible without running an entirely closed wotronic system (and consequently turning into visa or swift)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: at the risk of repeating old thread : there is no way to 'replace bitcoin with trbi'. it isn't a thing that can be done.
Framedragger: i won't insist - you're right, we've already just had that chat on #b-a
asciilifeform: ( what ~can~ be done is to build a thing that could function in place of a dead bitcoin. )
Framedragger: sorry for making you repeat things.
asciilifeform: but it ain't dead. not yet.
Framedragger: right.
asciilifeform: and 'dead bitcoin', esp. if it dies on enemy's terms, would imho be a technogenic catastrophe, quite comparable to, e.g., chernobyl. ( not for mircea_popescu 'i'm rich anyway, fuck everyone' , and not for other folx, who might not even have any; but for the concept of 'gold sans the guard labour')
asciilifeform: it could quite easily go to where the lisp machine went.
asciilifeform: folx with ~actual~ wealth (vs, say, usg payola, a la sv derps) tend to be ~very~ risk-averse when it comes to storage.
asciilifeform: hence why we have 1 mircea_popescu , and not 2 or 3.
Framedragger: you mean it would set a very bad precedent?
Framedragger: 'cause comparing to chernobyl...
Framedragger: i can see re. precedent tho.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: every popped reactor emboldens several ~generations~ of idiots who LET'S BURN COW SHIT! ANYTHING BUT fission!
asciilifeform: the damage is not in the mutated frogs, or the two dozen dead firemen, no.
asciilifeform: it is in the empowered whinerism.
Framedragger: yeah, i understand.
Framedragger: then again, it'd be a more powerful filter to deter stupid people.
asciilifeform: imho entire point of items such as bitcoin is as 'antibiotic' against massed stupidity.
asciilifeform: 'ourdemocracy'
asciilifeform: ( per mircea_popescu's piece )
asciilifeform: i suspect that 'greybeard' holdouts, taleb et al, who 'bitcoin is a fad, will go into the sands of time, snoar' are on a sound logical footing, 'every OTHER attempt to combat massed stupidity has ultimately fallen, nuked by OurDemocracy, and the more brazen the assault, the quicker'
asciilifeform: this imho is why there is moar at stake than only a mechanized hawalatron.
Framedragger: tbh that log snippet in that post (http://trilema.com/2017/how-i-almost-created-a-constellation-of-bitcoin-nodes/), "evidently new ssh is needed altogether" reads a bit like "oh i need to generate ssh key for this to work? well fuck ssh, obvs it's a pos."
asciilifeform: Framedragger: nothing to do with keys
asciilifeform: Framedragger: his ssh client mysteriously barfs when connecting to my sshd. (though nominally same versions..)
Framedragger: just run it with -v for verbose output, meh.
asciilifeform: and all permissions set correctly, key sitting right next to the others (that work), etc.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: we did.
Framedragger: ah ok.
asciilifeform: dies with debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS
asciilifeform: Connection closed by < mircea_popescu's ip >
asciilifeform: searching for this, yielded up megatonne of voodoo 'trythis!' idiocy
asciilifeform: 'reduce the mtu on your nic!'
asciilifeform: 'no, increase the mtu!'
Framedragger: some suggest to try with stock openssh server, to see if same happens. anyway, curious if sshd_config on your end has custom knobs (e.g. prefers one crypto format over another), but i guess the whole thing's a timesink
asciilifeform: Framedragger: holy fuck are you reading stackoverflow idiocies verbatim ?!
asciilifeform: this ~was~ a stock openssh
Framedragger: oh, did mp's client connect to server before, without autossh etc? need to confirm fingerprint
Framedragger: no, not stackoverflow, an ML
asciilifeform: same crapola, repasted 10,000 times on www
asciilifeform: where some d00d has custom openssh
asciilifeform: 0 relevance.
asciilifeform: and no, no connection, it dies in the manner described
asciilifeform: (and pointedly NOT described anywhere else)
Framedragger: okay then. :(
Framedragger: (i wonder if he tried just-ssh'ing, no autossh first. because he needs to answer "yes" to "trust this fingerprint?" prompt first, it seems. just that.)
Framedragger: ok, ok.
Framedragger: then i retract my previous snappy remark. ssh lol.
asciilifeform: interestingly, when he did interactive ssh minus the tunnel, he did get the 'OK' prompt
asciilifeform: but with tunnel -- this.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D18213E74FBE771FDB7F8529CC00E30724669C3A6D9E66E5FED429E7F92EFD93 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1450...5997 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.23.121.98 (ssh-rsa key from 80.23.121.98 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host98-121-static.23-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D18213E74FBE771FDB7F8529CC00E30724669C3A6D9E66E5FED429E7F92EFD93 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1496...4063 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.23.121.98 (ssh-rsa key from 80.23.121.98 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host98-121-static.23-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
ben_vulpes: i figured the boats were under constant optical satellite tracking, perhaps these schmucks weren't paying for it? http://gcaptain.com/bunker-tanker-hijacked-off-somalia/
asciilifeform: perhaps they forgot to pay for the coordinates-not-relayed-to-pirates-in-realtime service.
ben_vulpes: forwarding is swiss cheese, i don't even think that's for sale
mircea_popescu: o hi logs
asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626842 << of course there is. deny from all allow from this list.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 14:07 Framedragger: mircea_popescu: re. blackholing and to be alf-pessimistic for a second, node is exposed to risk of being blackholed as long as it uses TCP; because not only can enemy make it read packets (unavoidable in the end it seems), but there may be ways to making it send packets back.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626858 << we already gotta patch the kernel to FUCKGOATS.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 14:36 asciilifeform: ( but to make alt-udp you gotta patch the kernel. )
Framedragger: luckily there's no conceivable way to forge "source ip" field in headers :p
mircea_popescu: sure there is. but, not for garden variety gnome, not for free, etc.
asciilifeform: attempts to secure tcp are duct tape.
mircea_popescu: it is a tempting naivism to imagine the empire as a sort of frictionless monster, in which every limb gets full and impeded access to any tool it needs whenever it needs it. this however is not how any empire works irl.
mircea_popescu: irl, the relative gain from "lording it over" the "lower" limbs that need tools to do their job is often more significant than the gain to the decident of the actual correct usage.
mircea_popescu: this is periodically discussed in the logs, but i suppose pretty out there to grok.
mircea_popescu: average gauleiter actually gains more from secretaries NOT HAVING ink ribbons so they can't do their job than from their HAVING ink ribbons and doing their job.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu tends to approach from the (very practical) angle of 'cutting heads here and now', asciilifeform tends to approach from angle of 'how to permanently salt the slug'
mircea_popescu: because every empire ever is backed by the trade in flesh, and well... the former pays in flesh. the latter - in scrip.
mircea_popescu: yes, but then asciilifeform gets pissed off that the heads aren't cut :D
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu -- that the slug reinflates !11
Framedragger: "you using ssh-keygen, are you out of your mind!1"
asciilifeform: imho both are 'part of balanced diet'
Framedragger: (granted, ssh-keygen is a pos.)
Framedragger: pretty healthy dynamic i suppose
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626897 << while kid in question was in school or w/e.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 14:54 asciilifeform: this went on for, iirc, a year or so, then got tired.
mircea_popescu: it's a not terrible "garage chemistry lab" project, costs maybe fiddy bux a month or such\
asciilifeform: costs 0 if you already-have-with-what.
mircea_popescu: if you already have with what it is prohibitebly expensive, because of opportunity costs
mircea_popescu: wich is why rayon plant isn't engaged in the practice of "see kids, organic chemistry!" experiments
asciilifeform: there is space in botnetdom between 'garage' and 'rayon plant'.
mircea_popescu: sort-of how the bare-under-raincoat sexual behaviour is not common in men who get sucked off whenever they feel like.
asciilifeform: this,yes
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 15:08 asciilifeform: ( what ~can~ be done is to build a thing that could function in place of a dead bitcoin. )
mircea_popescu: and the idea is to have it more or less ready before the prototype actually dies.
mircea_popescu: which, considering the sad confluence of not dumb people who (self servingly, and shamelessly), "think" bitcoin code is perfect (hey, alpha dun wanna be bothered, yes ?) and imbeciles who "are being like suparheoes power rangers"... is a virtual certainty.
asciilifeform: and the number of weaknesses carried over from bitcoin oughta be zero.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626921 << yes. there's absolutely no argument that bitcoin dying on the enemy's terms would be an unmitigated catastrophe. chernobyl pales in comparison, it'd be on the level of "wheel is useless anyway" wisdom of dropped-on-head amerindians, or "oh pretty, spinning wheels" greek steam engine. utterly catastrophic. which is why eg http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-march-2013-statement/#selection
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 15:11 asciilifeform: and 'dead bitcoin', esp. if it dies on enemy's terms, would imho be a technogenic catastrophe, quite comparable to, e.g., chernobyl. ( not for mircea_popescu 'i'm rich anyway, fuck everyone' , and not for other folx, who might not even have any; but for the concept of 'gold sans the guard labour')
mircea_popescu: -293.0-292.1 ie, mp "who is not truly a billionaire because reasons" is more than willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of the coins.
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg. did anybody think that mircea_popescu did it to scratch an itching toe ?
asciilifeform: and yes it'll be exactly like heron's steam turbine.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what people think, but from eg mpoe-pr's experience, it'll be something shockingly stupid and in all the joins nonsequiturial.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4F2FAFEF6AC083AB068672CB38503FCAE11F169E44DE76AD841B52979BBCA0F9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1553...9793 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.184.117.147 (ssh-rsa key from 195.184.117.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail81.trifork.com. DK)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4F2FAFEF6AC083AB068672CB38503FCAE11F169E44DE76AD841B52979BBCA0F9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1712...8737 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.184.117.147 (ssh-rsa key from 195.184.117.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail81.trifork.com. DK)
asciilifeform: 'Trifork is a leading full service supplier of high-quality custom-built applications and end-to-end solutions. ... We aim to empower our customers...' << lol!!
mircea_popescu: anyway, and hence http://trilema.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/ and all the other countless mallets to the head of the agents of usgistan.
Framedragger: ...and all this is exposed to ecdsa and the particular parameters (secp256k1) not breaking... ouch.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i wonder why they even bother spelling that shit out by now, truly should just have pictorgraphs.
asciilifeform: it'll come.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger a little more layered a pancake, but anyway.
asciilifeform: ( as forecast by, e.g., sf writer neal stephenson, imbecilistan will devolve into pictographics )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know ? " We aim to empower our customers" = hun go wun bo = # ; "is a leading full service supplier of high-quality" = bing ding shing ling = @
mircea_popescu: trifork #@!
mircea_popescu: and in other hieroglyph lulz, me at travel agent, buying tickets. calls girl, "send so and so email a picture". beet red travel agent. "you know... i needed a copy of the passport". "what did you get ?" > nudegirl.jpg
mircea_popescu: the stroke went the wrong way!
asciilifeform: reminds me of a folk story from late '50s. shah of iran and his wife went to visit su. she, of course, takes entire household!111 literally, furniture and all, in classic eastern tradition;
asciilifeform: then it turns out , little problem : not all of the gurlz in said household, have passports
asciilifeform: she : 'whaddayamean, passports, they are my slaves'
asciilifeform: 'you would not give passports to a furniture?'
mircea_popescu: sounds about right.
asciilifeform: eventually reached gromyko, who grumbled (su was signatory to 'anti-slavery convention') but managed to hush it up
asciilifeform: let the 'furnitures' in, out.
mircea_popescu: poor gromyko. he's like in half the jokes isn't he.
asciilifeform: no less.
mircea_popescu: (not inept soviet foreign minister, for the innocent)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626924 << i've been on a long term quest to find young men who are rich and not mentally retarded. it's pretty slow going.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 15:16 asciilifeform: hence why we have 1 mircea_popescu , and not 2 or 3.
asciilifeform: !#seen mthreat
a111: 2017-02-17 <mthreat> people who don't shower in jail/prison are called 'vikings', or another name in Spanish which I forget. There is peer pressure to not stink in there.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, in an earlier, simpler time of "men inhabit bare stone dugouts together", the ability to not stink without washing was regarded as about half of what made monk a candiate for sainthood.
mircea_popescu: to this day "pleasantly scented remains" is on the orthodox list of santly merits.
asciilifeform: aha, and 'diy' self-mummificatory diet!111
asciilifeform: ( more of, iirc, a hindu phenomenon than a christian one, but existed )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626930 << it bears repeating that whinerism exists to be empowered only in those already fallen shitholes that do not http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/#selection-189.38-193.69
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 15:17 asciilifeform: it is in the empowered whinerism.
davout: "รชtre en odeur de saintetรฉ"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yep, afaik actually imported from india via persia and the lebanese/syrian/etc early christianhood.
davout: asciilifeform: .jp thing i reckon
mircea_popescu: davout yep exactly.
davout: asciilifeform: Sokushinbutsu according to pedopedia
mircea_popescu: 11th century is very late
mircea_popescu: these discussions predate stilpniks, we're talking 4-3 bce
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's stylite in english ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik there has not yet been birthed a civilization that has both reactors AND curbstomp-all-whiners. it is a theoretical possibility, like bricks of antimatter.
mircea_popescu: gotta have an utopia.
mircea_popescu: this one's way the fuck more appealing to my taste than "and everyone will be nice to everyone and there will be no poverty or suffering"
asciilifeform: more or less what limonov wrote about while sitting in prison
asciilifeform: 'can haz reactor + balls ?'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626936 << this may be expedient, but it is not logical footing whatsoever.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 15:25 asciilifeform: i suspect that 'greybeard' holdouts, taleb et al, who 'bitcoin is a fad, will go into the sands of time, snoar' are on a sound logical footing, 'every OTHER attempt to combat massed stupidity has ultimately fallen, nuked by OurDemocracy, and the more brazen the assault, the quicker'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626939 << you don't see anything suspicious about machine coming up with two 60 digit long primes within subsecond times, Framedragger ?
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 15:50 asciilifeform: Framedragger: nothing to do with keys
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626949 << mtu is epically irrelevant, seeing how the ping is 50ms in this particular configuration.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 15:53 asciilifeform: 'no, increase the mtu!'
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i do. the inconsistency that my (naive) mind spots is the "eh empire is not powerful anyway" + "there is no current alternative for X than Y" in conjunction with "how dare you use Y!!!"
mircea_popescu: two men land on deserted island, let's call them mrame pragger and fircea dopescu. they observe that a) monkeys are powerless b) there are no proper latrines and c) how dare you shit out in the open you stinked up the whole island. problem ?
mircea_popescu: the ~only~ think these two fellows, mrame and fircea, ARE NOT going to engage in is any sort or kind of ancestor worship.
mircea_popescu: because guess what ?
mircea_popescu: NO FUCKING ANCESTORS, THAT'S WHAT.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 17:07 ben_vulpes: i figured the boats were under constant optical satellite tracking, perhaps these schmucks weren't paying for it? http://gcaptain.com/bunker-tanker-hijacked-off-somalia/
mircea_popescu: nao what.
asciilifeform: send the detonation code ?
mircea_popescu: lol right.
mircea_popescu: leaving aside how that's uninsurable -- it's not even legal.
mircea_popescu: (and if you're going to run an illegal boat ... in what sense was it hijacked by pirates. already was pirate yes ?)
asciilifeform: killing pirates is quite kosher per 'law of the sea' last i knew
mircea_popescu: having a boat that can self-destruct is not.
asciilifeform: 100% of ships have kingstons.
mircea_popescu: ssd cards ?!
asciilifeform: no, the other kingstons
asciilifeform: sea valve.
mircea_popescu: what's the valve gonna do.
asciilifeform: well, it's a 'self destruct'
asciilifeform: just -- to the grief of many kriegsmarine folk -- slow
mircea_popescu: i guess...
asciilifeform: u.s. navy carries, iirc, scuttling charges, at least since pueblo incident
asciilifeform: (and probably before)
asciilifeform: it isn't a new idea by any means.
mircea_popescu: well if you're using a us navy ship you're definitely a pirate.
asciilifeform: anybody not a pirate ?
mircea_popescu: kinda what piracy was all about, get a man o war.
mircea_popescu: presumably tyhe people who lost the tanker.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, i wonder how many people took a ho over to graf zepellin and fucked her there, during the 30s.
mircea_popescu: (taking schoolgirl to abandoned / out of service train and fucking her is, i expect, kindergarten-universal yes.)
asciilifeform: iirc this was standard, and on hindenburg also, each held about 20 mircea_popescus in comfortable little rooms
mircea_popescu: so 100s ?
mircea_popescu: sag mir wo die Dicken sind!!1
davout would love to visit asciilifeform and mircea_popescu's kindergartens
mircea_popescu: o, right, there's no trains where you live. well... it's basically a tin can on wheels.
asciilifeform: graf zepellin was a train on mircea_popescu's home planet ?!
mircea_popescu: nah, just some perma-moored german ship. wanna-be carrier or such.
mircea_popescu: why, did i imply it was a train ?
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1627069 << i see your (nicely illustrated, heh) point, mk. ridoinculous has to be called if it's ridoinculous, sure
a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 18:09 mircea_popescu: the ~only~ think these two fellows, mrame and fircea, ARE NOT going to engage in is any sort or kind of ancestor worship.
Framedragger: called out*
mircea_popescu: you'd be surprised how often the defense is "oh, nobody TOLD ME" when cornered.
mircea_popescu: (this, fwiw, carries 0 water in mp's own dungeon. girl that had no way to know hangs just along well warned one. it IS a little chilling but what can you do.)
BingoBoingo still continuing full sync experiment, less than 35 kiloblocks to go. Prolly should have sprung for an SSD.
davout: BingoBoingo: welcome to the club
davout: I'm syncing since last december
davout: I should be current in a few hours \o/
BingoBoingo: Well node's in August 2016, so made it past the mp-constipator block
mircea_popescu: nice going
BingoBoingo: Still has required a few resets to overcome crapolade blackholes, but far less common after passing block 400,000 compared to 250,000 -350,000 where PRB unordered shit spewing of blocks complicates things
BingoBoingo: A least I suspect,
BingoBoingo: no real srs diagnostics done. simply restarted bitcoind on freezes
a111: Logged on 2014-10-22 04:34 asciilifeform: but all the semantics of original must be preserved, to begin.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-20 19:16 asciilifeform: which potentially changes the semantics of EVERYTHING
a111: Logged on 2017-02-22 04:43 asciilifeform: (it'd require, absolutely, removing the locks. which ~unquantifiably alters the semantics of the entire thing.)
a111: Logged on 2017-03-09 20:33 asciilifeform: and incidentally this will also change the semantics of the block-saver, unless somehow kludged around (e.g. via locking)
mircea_popescu: it would actually be VERY INTERESTING to have a semantics- unpreserving client. let's see dude, wtf DOES happen ?
asciilifeform: well potentially ze bomb
mircea_popescu: fuzzing ftw.
asciilifeform: (forkable)
mircea_popescu: consider : ssh-tunnel ze bomb ? what diiference does it make.
asciilifeform: accepts a block that ye olde trb wouldn'tve
mircea_popescu: yes. and now you know.
asciilifeform: only if the old one is still operating
asciilifeform: sorta the point of trb.
mircea_popescu: well obviously. that's the idea. do it know while they are.
mircea_popescu: that's the fucking rule. something scares you ? DO IT NOW! now, that master's here, now thart you're still young and it heals, now, now, NOW.
asciilifeform: sorta why i have the 'nqb' thing going.
mircea_popescu: after all, dead & replaced trb === fork.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/03/hard-freeze-threatens-washington-dc-cherry-blossoms-with-eradication-tonight/ << Qntra - Hard Freeze Threatens Washington DC Cherry Blossoms With Eradication Tonight
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: dunno about dc, but my cherryblossom had bloomed, and already had time to turn liquishit-brown last week
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well with these things even a mere 20 km can make a huge difference in timing
trinque: chilly and sunny here in TX today, been enjoying it on the balcony all day.
davout: so apparently "bitcoin unlimited" nodes are sniped off the network by some remote-crash bug
trinque: onoes!
asciilifeform: empire of lulz
asciilifeform: srsly? bug?
davout: i'm in their IRC room for lulz, it's absolutely delicious
asciilifeform: davout: post lulzlog in the end
trinque: inb4 bug being simply, a very large block.
BingoBoingo: davout: pls to submit qntra?
Framedragger: :D so, if not "thing block", then CRASH (`assert(0)`)? A THOUSAND EYES
Framedragger: "thin block" *
Framedragger: "// TODO was drunk, change dis later"
Framedragger: is there a way to short all these scamcoins easily? lol.
Framedragger: (right, this is basically *remote* probably-easy way to make it crash. nice knob.)
davout: BingoBoingo: will make an attempt
BingoBoingo: ty davout
mircea_popescu: davout what room ?
davout: #bitcoinchat
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/14/a-quick-recipe-for-pressing-experimental-trb-trees/ << ยป Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - A quick recipe for pressing experimental TRB trees.
mircea_popescu: this is embarqassing, there's nobody there. buncha dorks on eg [marilyn] (~androirc@c-68-37-99-241.hsd1.mi.comcast.net): Android IRC Client wtf.
asciilifeform: doesn't look exploitable, sadly
mircea_popescu: eh, who wants to exploit random luser.
asciilifeform: well in the sense that it's a non-event, 0day-wise.
asciilifeform: crashes, nao wat.
asciilifeform: luser patches, goes back to lusering.
asciilifeform: ( rather, than, say, weeping over his freshly formatted hdd )
mircea_popescu: eh, it's not his women naked saved there anyway.
asciilifeform: hey pete_dushenski didja actually get the tunnels to work ?
mircea_popescu: the "consumer computing community" functions approximately as a spotty porn offline backup.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i'll be working on it between a couple of my nodes this afternoon. got a slave set up. now.... master
mircea_popescu: Framedragger looks like we silenced 'em
davout: BingoBoingo: feel free to edit ad lib obviously
mircea_popescu: * marilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) << dude... why. srsly nao.
Framedragger: well now that it's fixxord i'm certain it's smooth sailing from here on.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the eth recipe is apparently un-fucking-escapeable, no matter what. like the fucking "restaurants" in the us, which WILL be feeding people HFCS no matter the fuck what and how it blows up.
Framedragger: "the audience doesn't change, why should the food change"
pete_dushenski: hfcs trend well underway : "Nobody was predicting what happened in Clarendon in 2016 -- a wave of failures that amounted to a local restaurant die-off. Within the space of a few months, nearly a dozen major restaurants closed their doors, many of them well liked by reviewers and locally popular, some of them fixtures in the neighborhood going back a decade or more."
Framedragger: pete_dushenski: wait they had GOOD REVIEWS ON YELP, omg HOW could they have failed
pete_dushenski: lol somehow their cousins and cheap friends weren't enough to buoy the whole establishment
mircea_popescu: this sounds eeerily like sushi.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/03/bitcoin-altcoin-unlimited-experiences-drop-in-node-count-due-to-remote-crash-vulnerability/ << Qntra - "Bitcoin" (Altcoin) Unlimited Experiences Drop In Node Count Due To Remote Crash Vulnerability
BingoBoingo: ty davout on your Qntra debut
mod6: nice
ben_vulpes: > what is the name of your youngest child
ben_vulpes: because that's a constant string in the universe
ben_vulpes: > in what city does your nearest sibling live
ben_vulpes: good god
pete_dushenski: davout: a debutante is you!
davout: mazeltov to me
ben_vulpes: oh OH and then while the little javascripty checkboxes next to the fields of pointlessness show green the ACTUAL POSTBACK VALIDATION FAILS
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes by idiots for idiots!
ben_vulpes: what the FUCK is the point of javascript if such RETARDS are going to wield it
Framedragger: i personally have a special place in my heart for the static content websites which refuse to render a single legible char without heavy javascript. not that the rendered text is full of glorious content, of course
mircea_popescu: i thought that's called ajax
ben_vulpes: > is/are invalid
trinque: Framedragger: is it one of those special places full of sadomasochism and despair?
Framedragger: trinque: hah. only pure unfiltered rage - cleaner that way
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yer outta teh loop, you're supposed to abstract it with the great framework of jquery, no i mean angular, no i mean backbone, no i mean ember, no i mean react
ben_vulpes: hey you take that back about jquery
mircea_popescu: jguangktonembeact
ben_vulpes: she is a CHASTE LADY
ben_vulpes: does not deserve to be so lumped
mircea_popescu: why does she lay with every two bit spamsite then ?!
ben_vulpes: she's a slut not a whore
mircea_popescu: oh, does it for free ?
Framedragger: ben_vulpes: you may have a point i'faith. that said, _why_ is she so fat?..
ben_vulpes: proud, upstanding slut with no pretension
mircea_popescu: in other lelz, aparently trilema ranks for "the forums of the most serene republic". with the right article, too.
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: that's not a nice way to speak about a girl who's so charitable
mircea_popescu: venereal disease is supposed to thin one out. this is shenaniganich.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes incidentally, ever run into one of those ? they're most common on teh western seaboard.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess that whole BUTT thing was moderately entertaining.
Framedragger: we missed out on quality butthurt because they have a private safespace channel heh.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: one of which? venereal-laden?
mircea_popescu: dedicated sluts
ben_vulpes: not many, but yes
asciilifeform: hey ben_vulpes do you have the binary versions of first few blocks handy ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: ja, still want 'em?
trinque: aha, they'll ignore your system root certs because fuck you
Framedragger: asciilifeform: unrelated - re. fuckoff.c, aren't you supposed to register that sig_handler() to kernel first (via invoking signal()) for it to even work?
trinque: ben_vulpes: openbsd's package for the thing is neutered to use the system
trinque: not that it means much
Framedragger: asciilifeform: just fyi confirmed that in fuckoff.c, sig_handler() code is redundant as the function is not registered. (adding `signal(SIGHUP, sig_handler);` in main() changes behaviour and fixes this)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: yeah i forgot to cut it
asciilifeform: it isn't needed
Framedragger: i'm not too sure why you even needed a handler for HUP, it closes by default
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ^ you can remove that sig_handler definition from fuckoff.c (as well as the signal.h #include) fwiw, as that that code won't ever be executed
Framedragger nitpicker of most trivial things
asciilifeform: i dun think this will make his ssh client work tho.
Framedragger: mno :(
Framedragger: god knows what's happening there
Framedragger: owait it opened at $24 not $17, haha
Framedragger: wrong tab, shit
mircea_popescu: yeah that part was server-side.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger done
mircea_popescu: aaand in other trumpreich, looks like the "consumer financial protection bureau" is going away entirely.
mircea_popescu: (invented in 2010 among the boatload of dc-insider-centric pork dodd-frank introduced)
mircea_popescu: liz warren's idea.
mircea_popescu: pretty fine example of exactly why warren was so vocal (item was strictly a barony created so elizabeth warren could be barron OF SOMETHING). this cfpb item spent 55mn on "renovations" of its hq, ie more than the gsa spent that year on everything the usg owns ; spent immensely on travel (which is not something they do). the chairman is supposed to not be removable by the president except "for cause" (meanwhile that got strick
mircea_popescu: en) and, lulzily, they came up with a system to "guess" based on reasons (such as zip codes and last names) who is a black applicant for loans, and then fined various usg agencies masquerading as banks by the 100s of millions for these alleged abuses. and they got it too, because settlement culture. and they didn't, of course, pay as much as a dime to the "estimated" victims, they being you know, "estimated" aka hallucinated,
mircea_popescu: in plain language.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the SOPS have been adamant in rejecting lawsuits against them.
mircea_popescu: how exactly elizabeth warren isn't in jail atm is anyone's guess.
mircea_popescu: (the people pushing for the dissolution of the thing are just as unprincipled, ftr. mostly a coalition of "payday lenders" ie 2nd generation loan sharks.)
asciilifeform reviewing vintage 'fixes', e.g., https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=102395 >> mircea_popescu tell me, how the fuck does caching ~invalid~ blox make any sense at all ?
asciilifeform: how was this 'fix', any kind of fix.
asciilifeform: 'Once the victim receives this invalid block, they will cache it on disk, attempt to process it, and reject it as invalid. Re-requesting the block will not be even attempted since Bitcoin believes that it already has the block, since it has one with the same hash.'
asciilifeform: srsly wat.
asciilifeform: !#s tv raft
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo awake ?
asciilifeform: i got a nooseitem comin'
mircea_popescu: afaik ancient shitty code.
mircea_popescu: guy pretty much explains it all, merkle tree is a poor hashing scheme by itself.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz caer i mean eu is actually splitting up huh.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: except it's a fine hashing structure! the bug is not a bug : a block with one or more duped tx is ispo facto invalid (double spend.) and bitcoin has NO business keeping around 'hashes of' or any other part of an INVALID block.
asciilifeform: with which to later reject a valid one having same hash.
mircea_popescu: does a buncha padding which meh.
asciilifeform: and what's that do
mircea_popescu: i dunno.
mod6: Update from yesterday: The necessary change has been made to the forthcoming version of V (99994); if when pressing, the given output directory already exists, it will be removed, then will proceed to press new vtree.
mod6: There has been an automated test added for this as well.
mircea_popescu: cool deal.
mod6: yup, still on target for this weekend.
BingoBoingo: ty asciilifeform
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/03/amazon-rolls-out-an-index-librorum-prohibitorum/ << Qntra - Amazon Rolls Out An Index Librorum Prohibitorum
mircea_popescu: some prime rib coming via mail to qntra these days
mircea_popescu: the significant point, of course, being that the female state DOESNT EVEN DARE ADMIT IT. just like working class mom not buying kid shoes because $reasons, rather than because "i was too dumb when i was 20 to not be poor now that i'm 35 and look like 49, honey."
BingoBoingo: For serious. Loving this submissions from other people business.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: maybe try this piece in the heathen pits ( 'thedonald' etc )
BingoBoingo contrary to popular belief not an all seeing eye.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I am not welcome in that heathen pit
asciilifeform: btw BingoBoingo this is a '0day scoop', afaik discussed nowhere.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's pet noticed it , directly, when browsing shitazon just few hrs ago.
mircea_popescu: in that case...
BingoBoingo still planting it in heathen pits
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