Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-01-08 | 2017-01-10 → ↓
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: barns in the 2-3 range, meatboxes same, but without truss roof
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Because rain noise you'll probably want some sort of roof above the steel
ben_vulpes: garden! like you said.
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/chainstate#30 << does this regular pattern of descending transaction counts to a very low number over three blocks spook anyone else?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1599556 << expect to see thousands of these, made Just For Us
davout: asciilifeform: it isn't very clear to me if the actual attack ~must~ be a P2SH transaction
mircea_popescu: in any case fix is trivial.
asciilifeform: davout: from my reading, it is something that sits in a block
asciilifeform: (vs a mempool tx)
davout: "It is possible to use a standard p2sh transaction as the attack vector, but it seems to be a transaction that takes no more than 500 msec to be verified." <<< this part confused my parser
mircea_popescu: davout the way this works is by piling a bunch of slow txn.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in point of fact it is not trivial, gavin et al introduces some pile of shit that almost certainly has fencepost eggog
davout: asciilifeform: seems to me any incoming transaction that you verify could DoS you
davout: (assuming you have the pre-requisites already in block)
asciilifeform: davout: for mempool tx i can just ban the opcode.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "do not evaluate script" is simple enough.
asciilifeform: it is only in blocks that you cannot.
davout: right
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: won't eval script -- can't verify block.
asciilifeform: or next block.
asciilifeform: or next. etc
mircea_popescu: blocks are header based not tx based.
davout: fix is lulzy
mircea_popescu: and you don't have to evaluate the script to check the tx.
davout: "Additionally I have done extensive fuzzing to ensure the result is identical to the current implementation."
asciilifeform: davout: gold
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: script with, e.g., nonstandard ops, results in nonwellformed block.
asciilifeform: per trb.
asciilifeform off to trb room to verify this statement. and then to bed.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't have to evaluate the script. you have to check that the inputs exist, check that the txn is signed, and that's that. all the nutty bs "scripts" do is not of any interest, not really.
mircea_popescu: tbh /me has little intention to support anything but the above in trb-i. no fucking "scripts". name your input, name your output, sign. that's it.
mircea_popescu: the whole "native support for '''contracts'''" in satoshi's spaghetti is exactly equivalent to his support for '''accounts'''. deeply misguided, entirely useless, pure wildman nonsense.
ben_vulpes: this is perhaps the one instance in the history of the world where the software schelling point might actually migrate /away/ from complexity.
mircea_popescu: the sheer idiocy of building contracts into money can not be properly appreciated by coders, sadly.
mircea_popescu: it is not unlike ovaries that came with wedding rings built in.
mircea_popescu: "honey, i love you enough to cut through your abdomen and hope this kidney stone fits your finger. and mine."
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599658 <<< so basically any fucktard who can mine a block can DoS TRB into oblivion
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 05:35 asciilifeform: davout: for mempool tx i can just ban the opcode.
mircea_popescu: needs to mine about 3 blocks in succession to do anything visible. and the visible something will probably be his 3 block thing being an orphan.
mircea_popescu: anyway, that aside, fixing this in trb may be worth the doing. though in my mind it was slated for when we actually do trb-i, to be shot in head with the whole "script" idiocy.
mircea_popescu: "i know, let's put a fucking forth parser into the consensus system, that'll be so fucken smart!"
davout: mircea_popescu: not sure the blocks need to be mined in succession
davout: you just need to have the outs at hand
davout: and i'm really not sure the necessary prevouts wouldn't be rejected as 'attack-preparation' by random miners
davout: either way, I entirely agree that the scripting thing is cancerous
a111: Logged on 2017-01-07 18:04 mircea_popescu: ah. the way i was thinking this'd work would be : the bot answers to any lines where its name is mentioned ; and i can update its "brain" with a !^ url style command. whereby it replaces its "ai" code with the content of the file.
ben_vulpes: lemme guess: you're ~epsilon interested in poking a running lisp process through emacs
ben_vulpes: i think you'd get significant mileage out of it, but the cognitive overhead would probably enrage you.
ben_vulpes: it might not be so bad at that, there's one command to compile, and a single keypress to abort a failed compilation. ofc, you'll have to either edit directly in emacs (strongly recommended for parens-balancing reasons) or edit the file in something else of your choice (not recommended because no parens balancing) and then loading the file in a persistent lisp session in tmux or whatever
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ^^
ben_vulpes: (do people mute highlights from a111 ?)
davout: ben_vulpes: i don't, useful for when you're answered to
ben_vulpes: davout: aye, that's what i've always thought. no need to waste characters on a nick when a111 does it for ya!
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/01/09/finding-the-light/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Finding the light.
ben_vulpes: spiffy little chart pete_dushenski, howdja make it?
Framedragger: (just complained to taleb about him using medium. this whole "scrape article right after it's published because the unicorn it's riding on may go really go down soon" is a bit stupid. on the small off chance that he replies with a request for a suggestion to be considered, i wonder if there's anything to actually be suggested. need to search for a bit (i'm certain he wouldn't fuck around with mp-wp unfortunately)..)
ben_vulpes: vanilla wordpress would work.
ben_vulpes: you'll have a long fucking slog getting him to use finished software if he's an investor in a revolutionary online publishing platform, though.
Framedragger: ikr :( probably so
Framedragger: vanilla wp may work, yes... i hear some folx use medium because it offers "exposure". i wonder if there's anything to it (probably not). i guess you see popular articles when you go to medium.com, or something..
Framedragger: "n3twork 3ffect"
ben_vulpes: a man's work stands on its own, for everyone else there are marketing departments standing by to contribute to revenues.
Framedragger: indeed - and he should know this and consider setting an example..
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: your bot is ready, i'll be online sometime after 2200 utc to hash out the details of getting your code into it.
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: you know that ellipses have three dots in 'em?
ben_vulpes: ohai jurov
jurov: o/
Framedragger: usually i am a coward and a proper ellipse is too much of a commitment to me.
ben_vulpes: heh which reminds me: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20170101/attachment.txt?sha1=054f90b71ea58b51b3dd37774b495d5f7e85afee << zero income foundation carries on the zero asset legacy :P
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: which reminds me of a thought perhaps mircea_popescu can make better use of than i, given how it's been evading my grasp: why is it that you can have brave men and brave women, but cowards are all men?
Framedragger: hm, isn't that because of gender role legacy, with "man taking the burden" and all that? i'm sure this oversimplifies things - it's an interesting thought
Framedragger: can a woman really not be a coward?
Framedragger: or more precisely, have there been no instances of such?
ben_vulpes: it's not that women can't be cowards but that cowards (unqualified) are men.
Framedragger: right. and yes i agree, seems to be the case.
ben_vulpes: best i have is that woman adapts and survives and man dies broken, fighting to the last breath
ben_vulpes: bbl, zs
Framedragger: yes, there is that model of a woman as someone who is expected to, and is bound to adapt in my mind, too. if she runs away from a dangerous bank robbery scene, it's to be expected. ties into the 'protecting children' function, too. unless she *explicitly* is a heroine.
Framedragger: (that being said, and probably much against the aggregated views of this here forum, i don't really like this model. if 'emancipation of women' makes your gut wrench, consider that most men fail at fulfilling their model expectations. in .lt (where masculine models are very much in place), there are plenty of good, sensitive men who live very unhappy lives due to 'expectations'. this of course includes lots of unhappy gay people.)
Framedragger: (not a very original thought.)
phf: woman is assumed to be cowardly by default, where's a man needs a qualifier.
diana_coman: Framedragger, there is sex and there is gender; in other words, an individual woman can be more of a man than a specific, given man and the other way around;
Framedragger: no disagreement there (did my statements imply or assume otherwise?) :)
Framedragger: but, yeah.
Framedragger: there are the prevalent 'expected defaults', tho.
diana_coman: which are basically models of "feminine" and of "masculine" if you prefer, to make it clear
diana_coman: and so if that's clear, what is it that you dislike?
diana_coman: Framedragger> (that being said, and probably much against the aggregated views of this here forum, i don't really like this model. if 'emancipation of women' makes your gut wrench, consider that most men fail at fulfilling their model expectations. in .lt (where masculine models are very much in place), there are plenty of good, sensitive men who live very unhappy lives due to 'expectations'. this of course includes lots of unh
diana_coman: appy gay people.) <- this suggested the difference was not clear to you
Framedragger: you're right.
Framedragger: in certain places, it may be unnecessarily hard for say a man to be 'feminine'. i think that's what i meant, not more than that
diana_coman: how do you decide on "unnecessarily" there?
Framedragger: well, that's the problem and object of possible critique here. i suppose it's quite subjective and really hard to defend. my hope was that someone may relate and define this more rigorously
diana_coman: well, I don't really think someone can live a very unhappy life due to *others'* expectations; at most due to his/her own
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/575A15CF2DA998E5E78663389111EFA3BF1F80A47EEB005ED795EA946D20253F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1095...1183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.47.20.107 (ssh-rsa key from 85.47.20.107 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host107-20-static.47-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F7EE9D7418360EBF5222D566B0A5B811023AC29616EBC02A9EE52BDB5A00038A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1095...1183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '2.116.209.1 (ssh-rsa key from 2.116.209.1 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host1-209-static.116-2-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A558B10A1CCC09194358E0502CAFA4415F57F1944DD9FE618E2A2E2D29EFAC0F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1095...1183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.57.196.177 (ssh-rsa key from 217.57.196.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host177-196-static.57-217-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/24698AD72475BB28F25AD63CC626A01EC41AF82BC51BC4CB8118FC5B15BDF42E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1095...1183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.57.196.179 (ssh-rsa key from 217.57.196.179 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host179-196-static.57-217-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F5531B421CF54E13A5413500A2CAA7EC23E3D2267C57196B08C217AC2A4EF4B7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1095...1183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.86.29.254 (ssh-rsa key from 62.86.29.254 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host254-29-static.86-62-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
Framedragger: diana_coman: i see what you mean. at the end of the day if one cannot carve out existence on their own terms, they are doomed either way - this much i agree with. (also, i didn't really have a fleshed out point, thanks for clarifying things for me)
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599723 <<< in my book, running away from a bank robbery scene if you can, qualifies as 'not being a moron', not 'being a coward'
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 09:40 Framedragger: yes, there is that model of a woman as someone who is expected to, and is bound to adapt in my mind, too. if she runs away from a dangerous bank robbery scene, it's to be expected. ties into the 'protecting children' function, too. unless she *explicitly* is a heroine.
Framedragger: bad example, i agree :D
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3F884718CC1F7BBD6425044BB98EB5128654EC09BB8F8D8FFE2F4EFA26F4CC53 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 53045983853809585401822001 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Marcus Benjamin <markymac99@mac.com>; Marcus Benjamin <markymac@charter.net>; '
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599687 << it is likely, but obviously unreliable.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 05:53 davout: and i'm really not sure the necessary prevouts wouldn't be rejected as 'attack-preparation' by random miners
mircea_popescu: the reason you want them in succession is that single blocks will definitely get orphaned, but longer chains present a risk for miners if they opt not to build on them.
mircea_popescu: that's a real threat model, because of how bitcoin works chain differentials are real leverage in the hands of enemy.
davout: seems to me that enemy being able to build a large chain differential would be a problem in its own right
mircea_popescu: i didn't specifically separate it here, but that's where the 3 guess comes from.
mircea_popescu: anyway, "softforks" ie successful attacks to date are a very simple indication of how this works.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599676 << for the record, there isn't a case in history YET where schelling point was anything than against complexity.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 05:45 ben_vulpes: this is perhaps the one instance in the history of the world where the software schelling point might actually migrate /away/ from complexity.
mircea_popescu: which is why ustardia requires all the ideological fanfare. outside of getting people to blindly believe they matter, somehow, no matter how, there's simply no way.
mircea_popescu: in any case the usg "tax code" or "legal code" or any other pile of usg-specific idiocy is NOT a schelling point.
mircea_popescu: and for the "we all agree" (that "sexual harassment is a thing" or "words hurt" or whatever other nonsense du jour) engine to work, the strict requirement is for "everyone" to be entirely a set of usg drones. it's not even enough to pad theroom, it must be filled.
mircea_popescu: which is how hillary ended up visiting 1mn strong towns in the sense of speaking to fifty ditzy cunts nobody could be bothered to ever fuck in a basement library somewhere.
mircea_popescu: the usg is veheheheeery fragile.
mircea_popescu: (or, in the imperial expression, "putin doesn't understand how the world works".)
mircea_popescu: hence all the "gotta educate the public". their process of "education" consists of taking healthy youths and spitting out useless drones. now if only this process could be extended to anything other than placid, cowardly middle class youth, the world would suddenly be habitable for the usg!
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599724 << who is expected to protect these "good sensitive men" that run away? the men that are in fact men?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 09:51 Framedragger: (that being said, and probably much against the aggregated views of this here forum, i don't really like this model. if 'emancipation of women' makes your gut wrench, consider that most men fail at fulfilling their model expectations. in .lt (where masculine models are very much in place), there are plenty of good, sensitive men who live very unhappy lives due to 'expectations'. this of course includes lots of unhappy gay people.)
trinque: socialism: its kinda gay
mircea_popescu: yes. this is EXACTLY what they expect.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599692 << i'm not against it, but how do you handle the connection with some semblance of security ?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 06:21 ben_vulpes: i think you'd get significant mileage out of it, but the cognitive overhead would probably enrage you.
mircea_popescu: (ftr, i don't get enraged by things i don't know ; i get enraged by things that are stupid.)
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 06:26 ben_vulpes: (do people mute highlights from a111 ?)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599699 << there's a c* blog/ing competition underway isn't there.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 07:26 ben_vulpes: spiffy little chart pete_dushenski, howdja make it?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski palate. the bony skull part above your tongue, where supposedly (the belle epoque frenchies thought) elevated tasting takes place.
mircea_popescu: dude this piece is beautiful. tyvm pete_dushenski no further than yest sitting with girls on sidewalk cafe we were wondering at abominable item, and then discovered it was... WV!!!
mircea_popescu: persuasive retelling of history falls right in the spot.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599700 << why'd he have to ? deploy one for him, and him passwords.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 09:23 Framedragger: (just complained to taleb about him using medium. this whole "scrape article right after it's published because the unicorn it's riding on may go really go down soon" is a bit stupid. on the small off chance that he replies with a request for a suggestion to be considered, i wonder if there's anything to actually be suggested. need to search for a bit (i'm certain he wouldn't fuck around with mp-wp unfortunately)..)
mircea_popescu: explain how to make backups (even if it's a dump-db-encrypted-to-key script you throw together) and that's it.
mircea_popescu: and before anyone asks : the advantage of this is that this solution scales. ACTUALLY scales. specifically, if at any point in his own time and for any reason in ~his own domain~ taleb wants to get more control, he can. he actually can. you explain to him, when he asks, HOW to be more in control of his mp-wp install. in terms of configuring the php script, or in terms of configuring the apache server, or in terms of configuri
mircea_popescu: ng the linux install, or the linux kernel, or in terms of vlsi and baking his own hardware.
mircea_popescu: THIS is the important thing, and the only thing that matters ; and this is the fundamental reason we hate, equally, and forever, medium, blogspot, whatever the fuck. "convenience" my right foot. it's never convenient to be stupid, and it is absolutely never convenient to be locked into being stupid.
mircea_popescu: it is admirable to compensate for his ignorance or disinterest, to the perhaps extreme level of doing the hardware, and the os, and the http server and the php on top of it yourself, if you like the guy enough. more power to you. but it is still something of his, which even if delegated he still owns.
mircea_popescu: this is how a father acts.
mircea_popescu: it is contemptible and beyond contemptible to rely on his ignorance, disinterest AND COWARDICE to get him on a windowsesque thing which "works", and provided he's willing to adapt what he wants done to what the butons say, all will be well.
mircea_popescu: this is how a mother acts, and why kids have not much business with her past the age of about 10 or so, depending how retarded they are.
Framedragger: gotcha. (and agree). i still dream of easily-reproducible systems, though. but one way to abstract away the idiosyncrasies (of say wordpress) is exactly what you said: another person.
mircea_popescu: hey, i dream the same. but the truth is, until there's enough critical mass of those "another persons", there's no good way to fix anything.
mircea_popescu: theoretical fixes only work in theory.
Framedragger: well, i'd go so far as to offer some free support to taleb, unfortunately i'm not in his wot; will see...
mircea_popescu: until and unless, we're stuck doing the communion favour for each other, whereby the hope is that someone in the republic will be capable to summarize something you don't understand ; and you can trust he's not fucking you over in so doing.
mircea_popescu: because no, the difference between pete explaining in summary how the fuck cars got fucked and you giving the keys to working wp to taleb is not substantial.
mircea_popescu: what you've both done is - summarized a familiar topic for the benefit for foreigners.
mircea_popescu: and this is exactly how working school fucking works, also.
mircea_popescu: and why kids ask "why" universally across time, space and culture ; and why idiots answer "because that's the way it is" out of fucking line.
Framedragger: sure. and that's the best one can have for the time being, and, *given trust*, it works nicely (dare i say, in a community-like aspect). and trust is unavoidable anyway and maybe the best instrument for civilisation. (also, need coffee)
mircea_popescu: no but it is. trust is the building block of both culture and civilisation, the ideal and real aspects of human society. reasoned trust (see phf's notion of recourse, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592296 etc) builds republics and unreasoned trust builds empires.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 21:59 phf: Framedragger: it's always the same with you, "this online personality construct is great" "they do useful research" etc. until they publish "i don't believe in pgp" or really act in any way that you didn't expect. and then you don't have any recourse, because they are online personality constructs. how well do you know this "online researcher" if you ~having spent significant amount of effort to collect and upload ssh keys~ didn't even
Framedragger: right-o!
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599620 << bru hempcrete literally decarbonizes the atmosfear!
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 04:10 ben_vulpes: papercrete!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599714 << i expect a coupla years of 0 expenditure drove the eventual 0 income
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 09:32 ben_vulpes: heh which reminds me: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20170101/attachment.txt?sha1=054f90b71ea58b51b3dd37774b495d5f7e85afee << zero income foundation carries on the zero asset legacy :P
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599715 << what are you talking about, there's plenty of cowardly women.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 09:34 ben_vulpes: Framedragger: which reminds me of a thought perhaps mircea_popescu can make better use of than i, given how it's been evading my grasp: why is it that you can have brave men and brave women, but cowards are all men?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599718 << are you kidding me, just look around. cowardice and periods are the biological female legacy.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 09:36 Framedragger: or more precisely, have there been no instances of such?
mircea_popescu: pro tip : take slut to party, have her take top off. all females in attendance that follow suit are class 1 ; all females in attendance that retreat to corners to gossip are class 2. class 2 is mostly cowards ; class 1 is mostly drunks.
Framedragger: aha. yeah you're right. this reminds me of when i made plans to sorta-jumpscare a guy by him being kissed by two girls, and the girls were all bravelike and c0mmitt3d until the moment came.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599719 << i have nfi, link for context ? i dun think i read it that way.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 09:36 ben_vulpes: it's not that women can't be cowards but that cowards (unqualified) are men.
Framedragger: but the side effect was my first ever threesome, so.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger well then this isn't a proper measure. woman playing coy != woman being coward.
Framedragger: aha maybe.
mircea_popescu: if two girls that are close but the sexual bubble between them's not popped and they run into this guy at a party who looks kinda cool and interests them because maybe he's gonna do it but then he wants them to kiss this other guy they may just pretend to be going to do it to see if he stops them.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599721 < yeah, sure, which is how leningrad affair. laisses.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 09:37 ben_vulpes: best i have is that woman adapts and survives and man dies broken, fighting to the last breath
mircea_popescu: laissez*
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/00A3BD63A369A6CBBACED992F6765F09EBBEBA1E6DD44BEFA19D3D84E3245ED1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1189...8439 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.254.244.71 (ssh-rsa key from 212.254.244.71 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (iaapf.phinex.ch. CH)
mircea_popescu: lol swiss isp
asciilifeform: 'Die Phinex Informatik AG bringt Ihnen mit groupware2go grenzenlose Freiheit und Unabhängigkeit zu einem top Preis.' >> lel
asciilifeform: did cryptoAG generate them modz for'em or wat.
mircea_popescu: they prolly imported a shitmodem
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: they fucking upgraded open dime specs as soon as mine arrived. so I sold it to some derpy trader.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599724 << dude what, whose gut wrenches because emancipated woman ? best i can tell everyone just gets massive erections.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 09:51 Framedragger: (that being said, and probably much against the aggregated views of this here forum, i don't really like this model. if 'emancipation of women' makes your gut wrench, consider that most men fail at fulfilling their model expectations. in .lt (where masculine models are very much in place), there are plenty of good, sensitive men who live very unhappy lives due to 'expectations'. this of course includes lots of unhappy gay people.)
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it was in the logs
mircea_popescu: it's the inept children flailing AS IF they were women that get the inept child's lot, ie scorn.
trinque: "make it look like a precious object" << wahaha go die
a111: Logged on 2016-12-29 15:27 asciilifeform: vintage lulz ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542468 ) continued! >> http://blog.opendime.com/post/155026798632/announcing-opendime-v2-now-genuine-verified << 'we’ve added a special security chip, the sole purpose of which is to defeat any attempt at building counterfeit or cloned Opendime'
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Coinkite factory holds the keys, so you own that factory you own Coinkite as a whole.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599727 << i'm with her. a woman may be assumed to be cowardly, and a black man may be assumed to be a thief, and an asian guy may be assumed to have a small dick, and if that works for you all the better. but it dun work in general, i don't think, nor in my experience. all children are born cowardly, all modern society tends to encourage it, the few who get out of infantilism aren't very gen
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 10:09 diana_coman: Framedragger, there is sex and there is gender; in other words, an individual woman can be more of a man than a specific, given man and the other way around;
mircea_popescu: der-biased.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: this is elementarily true, but not especially interesting
asciilifeform: yes, 'anti-counterfeit' always and without exception means 'one official counterfeiter!111'
mircea_popescu: WE FIGHT FOR PEACE!
mircea_popescu: "and will you disarm at the end of the fight ?" AHAHAHA NO!
trinque: mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/son-of-kronar/ << oblig
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: maybe not interesting cause story always ends with some disgruntled employee running off on the plug with the keys
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/315617DEC261985741CB934CF25387C63DBA06BE0004123D7521CA2B71FCD32B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1505...3199 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.17.231.77 (ssh-rsa key from 85.17.231.77 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.chordie.com. NL NH)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599736 << and on reddit it's hard for a man to not be an idiot. and if you go swimming in the swamp it'll be hard to not be all muddy etcetera. butofcoars!
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 10:12 Framedragger: in certain places, it may be unnecessarily hard for say a man to be 'feminine'. i think that's what i meant, not more than that
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599739 << slavegirls can and do live a pretty unhappy life because of master's expectations. this ironically happens the most with the best of 'em, because they tend to be very deaf to praise and very acutely tuned to reprimand.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 10:18 diana_coman: well, I don't really think someone can live a very unhappy life due to *others'* expectations; at most due to his/her own
mircea_popescu: this then follows in general, the average chump being a sort of windowsy emulation of a slavegirl, and without a master. so ends up reading feedback from /dev/urandom and interpreting it through a similar 50-50 => 1-99 grille.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, it sounds to me that their unhappiness comes from their own expectation that they are so very best, not from their master's expectations really; if it were from those, then *all* slavegirls would be just as unhappy
mircea_popescu: not exactly. there is some vanity in there, now and again, but the substance is just a sort of perfectionism.
mircea_popescu: follows from the personalization of the relationship to the divine. it's one thing to not manage to imitate the flight of the dragonfly, as michelangelo tried (and yes science is a reinterpretation of the relationship to the divine, doh, what else). it's another to not manage to do what the other guy tells you to.
diana_coman: it's not other guy, it's the master; to my mind the master was exactly the chosen god basically
mircea_popescu: yeah, but if he also speaks to you the usual contrition of the sinful is overpowering.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i don't mean "unhappy" in the 1850s manchester bereft-of-any-joy sense.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/yet-another-bitcoin-anniversary/ << Qntra - Yet Another Bitcoin Anniversary
mircea_popescu: dun dun dun
mircea_popescu: diana_coman similarily, the life of the sane programmer is pretty unhappy. by comparison, java-machining-dotnet-etcetera dorks are very fucking happy, going from conference to conference to tell each other how fucking delicious the catered rubber chicken is, and how the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom atrocity is totally worth 1.3mn
trinque: BingoBoingo: s/built/build/ or something
BingoBoingo: trinque: ty fxd
diana_coman: I suspect "unhappy lives" was/is quite loose as a term
diana_coman: I'm very happy to not be "happy" in that way, lol
mircea_popescu: "human happiness can not be a goal of policy, because the direct solution is also the correct one."
diana_coman: this is why I said it has nothing to do with outside expectations and what not really
asciilifeform: programmers who stay sane, at least in my experience, tend to be folks who are very disciplined re compartmentalization .
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform compartimentalization is in itself a sign of insanity.
asciilifeform: programming as a profession is a form of contained insanity.
mircea_popescu: they said the same about romatic love!
asciilifeform: asking for mircea_popescu-style 'sane' programmer is rather like to ask for hygienic sewer repairman. if such a thing is possible it consists of cosmonautic-grade compartment sealing.
mircea_popescu: it's not altogether clear computizing has to be a sewer. but yes, for as long as one's stuck dealing with a large pile of broken solutions churned out by people who didn't understand the problem nor were aware of the fact...
davout: compartimentalization, aka shizophreny
mircea_popescu: well schizoid in any case.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599746 << yes, but you're civilised. consider one of the better depictions of the matter : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R9Qiej-Tqo
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 10:23 davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599723 <<< in my book, running away from a bank robbery scene if you can, qualifies as 'not being a moron', not 'being a coward'
mircea_popescu: also "not being a moron" ?
davout: please be more explicit, i fail to grok
mircea_popescu: is the guy being a moron ? (have you seen the film ?)
davout: i haven't
mircea_popescu: ah then that's why. so check out true romance (the tarantino cut plox) when you wanna watch something, totally worth it.
davout: i shall
mircea_popescu: and then we can revisit
BingoBoingo: !~google true trilema romance
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: True Romance (Tarantino cut) on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/true-romance-tarantino-cut>; 18 So Cool Facts About ' True Romance ' | Mental Floss: <http://mentalfloss.com/article/68328/18-so-cool-facts-about-true-romance>; The Romantic Trilemma : An Existential Inquiry Into Modern Romance: (1 more message)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599723 << there is also a confounding set here: even supposing that you are an expert cut-throat, or whichever: why the fuck should you -- unpaid! -- die for ~a bank~ ?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 09:40 Framedragger: yes, there is that model of a woman as someone who is expected to, and is bound to adapt in my mind, too. if she runs away from a dangerous bank robbery scene, it's to be expected. ties into the 'protecting children' function, too. unless she *explicitly* is a heroine.
asciilifeform: !#s die for hotel
asciilifeform: 'fiatola is no friend of mine' (tm) (r) (mircea_popescu)
Framedragger: in retrospect, it was possibly the most horrible illustration eva.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform man chooses his stand, how should i know what he decided to die for.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger yeah you're pretty terrible at simile.
asciilifeform: illustration where nutter dies for a muddy puddle on the sidewalk is not very illustrative imho of anything interesting, other than possibly psychiatric case
mircea_popescu: there's nothing substantially different from sidewalk puddles yo.
mircea_popescu: can spend your whole life sifting through puddles and sidewalks looking for that georgia that's worth dyin' for. but on its merits, it's not.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 14:48 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599692 << i'm not against it, but how do you handle the connection with some semblance of security ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood, threat model. this is happening over the internet no ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, the way i liked the original "send urls" was because then other people can see wtf.
mircea_popescu is in no terrible hurry to produce menny lines of code.
ben_vulpes: which "the connection"? from your machine to the bot machine?
mircea_popescu: well yeah.
ben_vulpes: and from external attackers? or to secure your box from whatever strange is on the vps?
mircea_popescu: in general :)
mircea_popescu: vps from my machine, my machine from vps, both of these from random internet soup. not to a standard higher than "post wwwform"
mircea_popescu: anyway, im going to town nao, so we'll continue later today.
ben_vulpes: aight later
ben_vulpes: fwiw i have a spiffy little minimal interactive lisp bot you can diddle the behavior of in toto from emacs
ben_vulpes: demo of the integrated lisp development environment if you will
ben_vulpes shrugs
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1599317 << actually btcbase is broken in that respect. i keep filename from the first appearance, and then track hunk relationship through hashes only. which will break if there's hash collision
a111: Logged on 2017-01-08 08:02 ben_vulpes: i don't know what sort of apology is due here as clearly nobody has ever even tried to apply those patches through a strict v, but i'm still going to go slam my head in a door until i get some of the stupid out
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-09#1599879 << despite hating this word (as a medical term, it's about as precise as "caught a cold"), i did use it today for the first time in a while: "technological schizophrenia" is the theory and practice of compartmentalizing/dissociating net use across multiple devices and connections to defeat the whole "google knows she's preggo before she does"
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 17:05 davout: compartimentalization, aka shizophreny
ben_vulpes: why not just use other people's accounts, adlai ?
ben_vulpes: pollute the ingestion pipeline
ben_vulpes: get your girl looking at SAP ads
adlai: sure, that's one of the methods. this was in response to dude complaining that alphabets know who is, eg, studying up towards mass-production of HNIW; the precise response was roughly "be more schizo"
ben_vulpes: buy a set of old brittannicas and use tried and true blam tech perhaps?
adlai: it's just one example. some knowledge is too specialized to appear in general aggregations; and it's also way too easy to estimate who is germinating which ideologies if you have access to eg which news they read. anyway, i'm supposed to be prepping for my lab tomorrow... this is the fun one, where we dick around measuring boring stuff but end up with ice cream
a111: Logged on 2016-12-29 18:38 mircea_popescu: much like if a boy's mating strategy consists of seeking out the places where no other boys go and waiting for girls to straggle in.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-09 19:52 adlai: sure, that's one of the methods. this was in response to dude complaining that alphabets know who is, eg, studying up towards mass-production of HNIW; the precise response was roughly "be more schizo"
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/00A3BD63A369A6CBBACED992F6765F09EBBEBA1E6DD44BEFA19D3D84E3245ED1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1086...7407 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.254.244.71 (ssh-rsa key from 212.254.244.71 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (iaapf.phinex.ch. CH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/315617DEC261985741CB934CF25387C63DBA06BE0004123D7521CA2B71FCD32B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1431...0389 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.17.231.77 (ssh-rsa key from 85.17.231.77 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.chordie.com. NL NH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7FB815DF4016453F53D249A816CE408AE8ECDA29C5E54FC236405EAE71FA7CC2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1426...4853 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '211.126.234.26 (ssh-rsa key from 211.126.234.26 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (smtp.sd21.co.jp. JP)
asciilifeform: consultants, on subjs incl. 'data security', disaster recovery, etc.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, as part of a vast "argentina night life" programme, these nuts banned alcohol on the beaches, and are going around making kids open up their bags and shit.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: nothing speshul about the chart. just centre-aligned, single-spaced(shift-enter), and used the 'special character' directional arrows. bout it.
pete_dushenski: Framedragger: how did you reach out to taleb ? twitter ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: glad you liked the piece! always happy to elucidate the strange in the four-wheeled world. but what's the 'c*' thing ?
mircea_popescu: you and the other jew.
pete_dushenski: oooooooh. cascadian v contravexian.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5D9E1FD60613D225CBE347D0CD94C172D524517837B06D51F18C2F79775A391E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1597...7333 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '147.231.42.22 (ssh-rsa key from 147.231.42.22 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (d590je2.biomed.cas.cz. CZ)
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: and by 'WV' you mean 'VW' ?
pete_dushenski: s/palette/palate change made. ty.
mircea_popescu: yeah lol.
pete_dushenski: https://medium.com/incerto/an-expert-called-lindy-fdb30f146eaf#.lt82mk3ft << latest from nnt. archived (with photos) on muh site already.
pete_dushenski: wagenvolks! in fourth reich, wagen rides you!
mircea_popescu: lol. totally.
pete_dushenski: speaking of which, fucking terribad roads today. made me yearn for g-wagen.
pete_dushenski: whoever the fuck thought that an open rear diff could be compensated for by electronic nagging should spend the rest of their lives in noyabrsk
asciilifeform: speaking of, happy bloodysunday folx
ben_vulpes: what nagging pete_dushenski ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: orthodox xmas too
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: beeping and flashing orange dash light every time traction control activates, which in rwd car with 275 rear section tires on freshly snowed roads is... constant.
ben_vulpes: aha k.
ben_vulpes: beeping too?
pete_dushenski: the beeping only comes on when tc is REALLY going hard, but flashing dash light flickers with the mildest invocation
ben_vulpes: yeah non-locking rear is an odd duck
ben_vulpes: "fuel economy" is the argument, right?
pete_dushenski: it's goddam inexcusable. i think 'progress' is the going claim for open diff v rear locking diff
ben_vulpes: ahaha alf pasted a gpggram or wut
pete_dushenski: 'saddam' my 27yo merc WITH LOCKING DIFF will be taking over dd duty, despite having a much shitter heater, until the roads are cleaned up.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: what i really want is a transmission that directs all power to the spinning wheel. it's spinning, that's how you know it's the one that needs the power!
mircea_popescu: republican transmission control.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so basically emacs telnets into the server or wut ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: user ssh's into server, opens running emacs with `emacsclient -nw`
mircea_popescu: eh i dun wanna type over the wire for one thing
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: something like this is way too tempting atm : http://bringatrailer.com/listing/2005-mercedes-benz-g/
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: keypress timing? :P
mircea_popescu: in general.
ben_vulpes: yeah, i've heard you object to that before.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: i want one that's 10 years old with plenty of dinged up body panels
mircea_popescu: "i want to buy a c classe from a real used up hooker with real cum stains on the interior"
ben_vulpes: mid-nineties suburbans are more my style. the 3/4 ton body...
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: when buying snake oil...
mircea_popescu: snake oil.
BingoBoingo: Anyways bad winter weather demands Saturn plasticar. Body panels self undent!
BingoBoingo: Unless they split or tear
ben_vulpes: sheesh bb
mircea_popescu: "why did you break up with josh ?" "his one eyed snake was a one oil snake"
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: stop trying to hawk your electric toothbrush wouldja
ben_vulpes: "my snake only works with coconut oil"
mircea_popescu: no it's really good, he mounted blades on it, can now mow the sidewalk
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Well gotta keep the record of excellence in the log so we can point gabriel to a minimum viable residence
pete_dushenski: there's that.
pete_dushenski: even if eagles are more a republican bird than hawks.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: aight, i'll see about this eval-ing of text from mp-supplied urls
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: you could surely get a deal on a dirty, beat-to-shit g-wagen. from what i hear they're not cheap to maintain
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: noshit.png
ben_vulpes: handcrafted benzo, cheap to maintain fuckinlol
pete_dushenski: but even for a handcrafted merc!
ben_vulpes: noty, i think i'll stick with toyotas
pete_dushenski: handcrafted, recall, by magna steyr, not merc proper
ben_vulpes: yeah, not particularly interested in snowflakes of ~any variety.
BingoBoingo: In other news, adventures in furniture making have begun. Bookshelf started and completed in ~2.5 hours. 47" tall 23" shelves, plantation raised monterey pine, held with 2-1/2" construction screws.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: pics?
BingoBoingo: pics coming after sobertime. This was the teaser.
ben_vulpes: see ya
pete_dushenski: speaking of snowflakes, if every herpaderp is a citizen and a qualified human being right out the womb, it's about time that chickens get the vote too. they're bright enough! http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10071-016-1064-4
pete_dushenski: inb4 'birdbrain' becomes a compliment in the 4th reich
pete_dushenski: "My overall conclusion is that chickens are just as cognitively, emotionally and socially complex as most other birds and mammals in many areas, and that there is a need for further noninvasive comparative behavioral research with chickens as well as a re-framing of current views about their intelligence."
ben_vulpes: animal rights has been the funniest joke about progressivism since before women were even up for the franchise
pete_dushenski: "In particular, the avian forebrain (the part of the brain involved in problem-solving and other higher-order cognitive capacities) is actually derived from the same neuroanatomical substrate as the mammalian forebrain, providing more potential evidence for similar cognitive capacities in the two groups (Jarvis et al. 2005)." << see ? just like you and me.
ben_vulpes: i can't remember who it was (byron? meep, no clue), but held that "before long, they'll be wanting rights for cats and dogs, cows and hogs"
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: and somehow the conclusion that "most humans are barely over the cognitive threshold of a farm animal" never presents itself
pete_dushenski: lord byron ?
ben_vulpes: the one, but that's probably not right.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: that conclusion only lives here, ie. between the lines.
ben_vulpes: the memory fabricator is in full swing over here. wants to say that it was a tome that fell out of a moldbug piece but i really have nfi.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski et al : where is the auto that still has rubber bumper ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i have one
ben_vulpes: polyurethane
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: eh theory prolly wasn't unique to byron anyways. greeks likely had it.
asciilifeform: betcha it's another 'banned in eu pederastylands' item
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i'll save that story for another time. it's a gooder.
pete_dushenski to pick up l'enfant. bbl.
mircea_popescu: lol "same neuroanatomical substrate". nobody knows anything anymore do they. "cpu and beach are made of the same granularoabrasive substrate so there may be a secret place to plug in every beach. more non-invasive searching for the beach power cord is in order."
asciilifeform: 'It took me a while to overcome my disgust –I am still not fully familiar with the way non-risk takers work; they actually don’t realize that others are not like them, what makes people in the real world tick. No, businessmen as risk takers are not subjected to the judgment of other businessmen, only that of their personal accountant –unless they are peons in a hierarchy...' << ftr this is the allergen that gives asciilifeform
asciilifeform: upper endurance of ~5min. when reading taleb.
asciilifeform: d00d just can't stop pulling own cock.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 13:58 asciilifeform: y begin to understand that a hacker is someone who resembles Eric Raymond. Dave Winer has recently and mercifully moved his essays off to audio, but you can still hear him snorfling cashew nuts and talking at length about what it means to be a blogger[7] . These essays and this writing style are tempting to people outside the subculture at hand because of their engaging personal tone and idiosyncratic, insider's view. But after a whi
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he's talking about old women.
asciilifeform: this is not obvious from the linked piece.
mircea_popescu: yeah, granted.
mircea_popescu: but the piece says "dumbass does NOT have a say in how her daughter is used."
mircea_popescu: just, he doesn't know how to speak, because not educated [in this field] and consequently trades the offending of the many for the offending of the few. obviously a bad deal.
mircea_popescu: now this said, more in the general he does have a tedious self-promoting tone. i expect it's scar tissue from years spent in us corps, among idiots disinclined to naturally bow to their betters.
asciilifeform: i will also note that pete_dushenski for some perverse reason often copies this style and it is extremely taxing.
asciilifeform: always reminds me of this gurl (undergrad) who REALLYWANTED!111 to be a GreatMathematician and decided to... copy the quirks, nervous ticks, of paul erdos. as described in the biography.
asciilifeform: starting from the most nonsensical (e.g. inability to use a can opener)
phf: seems like a math grad thing. i know a handful of people who do shit like that
asciilifeform: it is about as becoming of an adult as trying to speed up bicycle by 'vroom, vrooom, vrooom!'
phf: "... есть истории, как И. В. Курчатова звали при отказе установки, он приходил, обнимал ее, и она начинала работать ..."
phf: (this is totally unrelated, i just don't feel one way or another about subj. when i was in my early twenties i also adopted mannerisms. i agree though, is not becoming of ~adult~)
a111: Logged on 2017-01-10 00:44 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Well gotta keep the record of excellence in the log so we can point gabriel to a minimum viable residence
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p really knows how to Win Phriendz And Influence People!11
phf: маразм крепчал
gabriel_laddel_p: !!v 7C35852065204B6A39F4EA153F9FE5A72C757681210572333C60460DCE525E87
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p rated BingoBoingo -1 << http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-10#1599989 < no.
asciilifeform: phf: quite
asciilifeform: 4 jan. 2017 : ' Multiple vulnerabilities in the NVIDIA Windows GPU Display Driver kernel mode layer (nvlddmkm.sys) handler for DxgDdiEscape and a vulnerability in the Linux GPU Display Driver kernel mode layer (nvidia.ko)'
a111: Logged on 2017-01-10 01:08 pete_dushenski: "My overall conclusion is that chickens are just as cognitively, emotionally and socially complex as most other birds and mammals in many areas, and that there is a need for further noninvasive comparative behavioral research with chickens as well as a re-framing of current views about their intelligence."
mircea_popescu: who the fuck reads biographies of mathematicians.
gabriel_laddel_p: "the men of mathematics"
mircea_popescu: the shopping lists of great writers, also ?
mircea_popescu: i cant readily think of any less interesting subject of a biography than a mathematician. if the dude spent his life in solitary confinment with pen and paper it'd make nary a difference.
gabriel_laddel_p: find me an engaging shopping list of "great writers" and I'll read it.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-10 02:34 mircea_popescu: who the fuck reads biographies of mathematicians.
phf: i once read grothendieck's récoltes et semailles, which is a kind of an autobiography
trinque: gabriel_laddel_p: the crying/flailing has gotten old by now.
trinque: !!v 72F868B95E14F160E81EA75C021FF45D12A9C771040BE809B7F1442835DD19C6
deedbot: trinque unrated gabriel_laddel_p.
trinque: you should feel honored that folks spent as much time as they did trying to right your ship.
gabriel_laddel_p: dude wtf are you on about
gabriel_laddel_p: you programmed atop these machines for how many years before discovering lisp?
phf: gabriel_laddel_p: you forgot most important url http://web.archive.org/web/20040714000607/http://www.dolphinsex.org/
phf: though apparently it's been gone from the web for a while now
gabriel_laddel_p: phf: Humans are charming, aren't they?
trinque: gabriel_laddel_p: I didn't say a thing about lisp.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: I see no one could interpret my rating of BingoBoingo as crying/flailing, and the only "ship" of mine people here have attempted to right is Masamune.
gabriel_laddel_p: As such, I concluded that my rating was (in your view) "teh last straw!111!
gabriel_laddel_p: and referenced the heart of the matter - lisp
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: didja ever read mircea_popescu's guide to wotronics ?
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: yes
asciilifeform: concerning the meaning of ratings, i.e. conveying degrees of certainty
gabriel_laddel_p: -10 magicaltux -0.5 49 7,566 Feb 26, 2014 pathetic Judas Goat.
asciilifeform: good example (though link to obsolete wotron)
gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: didja grok my drift via my rating?
asciilifeform: wot.deedbot.org is the current.
gabriel_laddel_p: ya I know
gabriel_laddel_p: systems exist to be abused, was intentional
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: pro tip: when you abuse things, they will also abuse you back.
gabriel_laddel_p: if you don't want to hear what I've got to say, just negrate me, !!down and be done with it.
asciilifeform: i can't speak for others, but i actually follow the formulation given in mircea_popescu's handbook
trinque: the saner and more beneficial path is to learn.
asciilifeform: in re degrees of certainty. e.g., earning the -10 is quite an achievement, it requires being a reliable compass of nogoodness
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: what _exactly_ have you done with your life that makes your advice so worthwhile?
trinque: I am not the one begging with hat in hand.
gabriel_laddel_p: trinque: what begging?
gabriel_laddel_p: there are public logs, gimme a link
trinque: the unrate indicates my level of interest in subj
mircea_popescu: yeah this is not particularly useful. gabriel_laddel_p you're in no position to a) challenge anyone here ; b) hurr durr about what you've done. you've done nothing, outside of being yet another of california's loud bums.
mircea_popescu: now stfu of your own accord before you have to be stfu'd through even more effort from people who, unlike you, do things.
gabriel_laddel_p: mircea_popescu: am I allowed to respond to people who reference me in the logs?
gabriel_laddel_p: and if not, what would you like done such that I may?
gabriel_laddel_p: and can I substitute it with working out the ternary circuts I asked adlai to do?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p: if you're feeling energetic, by all means, do something useful. (also there is the option of being useless, but quietly)
asciilifeform: there is a multikilometre-length list of unsolved problems, undone chores.
mircea_popescu: just shut up / go away.
asciilifeform: i'm not familiar enough with gabriel_laddel_p's background to suggest particulars. but since he mentioned ternary arithmetrons, why not go and find out how many muller gates can fit in a lattice igloo.
mircea_popescu: good enough.
mircea_popescu: and ftr, a somebody who is or is suspected to be smart enough to have done stuff and hasn't isn't thereby above someone who is too dumb to have done anything. on the contrary, and deeply so.
mircea_popescu: you can train a bright monkey to do plenty of the things off that list ; but the intelligent can not be helped.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather try to rescue drunks.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: does the igloo2 product line have something hilariously wrong with it a la apu2?
mircea_popescu: this cliki thing is written by annoying people.
ben_vulpes: lol written? by people?
ben_vulpes: half the time i bounce through cliki i end up in a loop of this pointing to that pointing to some Person page pointing back to the totally uninformative original page
mircea_popescu: dude they have a "person" page, "superintelligent shades of color blue" ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-10#1600113 << then yer in luck, i suspect that g_l is a good candidate for drink, probably has 6 months or so until hitting bottom
a111: Logged on 2017-01-10 03:30 mircea_popescu: i'd rather try to rescue drunks.
mircea_popescu: what, everyone wants to write the bootlegger's guide to $object, because it's such a funny recipe, you just add water in the shape of own drool and presto, another cracked.com article ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "put this OVER THERE" except over there 519s
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-10#1600114 << i actually misspoke -- 'igloo' line, afaik was never reversed .
a111: Logged on 2017-01-10 03:44 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: does the igloo2 product line have something hilariously wrong with it a la apu2?
asciilifeform: meant -- 'ice'.
asciilifeform: i keep confusing them because there is an 'igloo' in the sageprobe.
asciilifeform: containing the glue logic b/w the amd debug bus and the arm micro.
ben_vulpes: and in other NICs: "A software-defined full duplex 10baseT Network Interface Controller is implemented as a team of nodes controlling transmit and receive signal pins directly. The signals are conditioned by minimal electrical interface circuitry. External transmit timing is used. The team is designed to function as a memory-mapped device but may be stripped down for direct use by other node teams."
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 10baseT is surprisingly easy to 'bitbang-implement'
asciilifeform: (try it, it is enlightening)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: moore's greenarray is really closer to fpga (but with hypertrophied LUTs!) than to a cpu
asciilifeform: when you read it as 'slow fpga' it seems imho less appealing.
ben_vulpes: well i read it as "forth chip by chuck moore" and that's more appealing than anything else i've seen.
phf: man built own xanadu, and moved in
ben_vulpes: you've even said that chip speed is trumped by coherent semantics to the bedrock.
asciilifeform: now! it ~is~ 'republican' in the sense where -- iirc -- moore eschews the traditional '1000 terabyte and 10x10^8 dollars' fab toolchain in favour of his own
asciilifeform: but this is an apocryphal thing, afaik he has not published the entire thing anywhere.
mircea_popescu: iirc he made some ridiculously tiny toolchains too
asciilifeform: he did.
mircea_popescu: guy really should be here already.
ben_vulpes: too old
asciilifeform: afaik his logic synthesistron is not published. i would dearly love to be proven wrong about this tho.
ben_vulpes: fwiw, intel holds that several 'important' (i cannot evaluate that) forth greybeards have been distracted by very strange flugencraft
mircea_popescu: as in ufos ?
trinque turns on top gun theme
ben_vulpes: laser ignition of exotic fuel bits
trinque: ah, thought ya meant they were eaten by fighter manufacturers.
a111: Logged on 2016-01-20 03:44 asciilifeform had 'tricks of the unix masters', old maculature crud, on his shelf as a student, and an actual greybeard saw, asked 'where is your 'tricks of the doom masters' to go next to this'
asciilifeform: forth is not cl, with bottomless pits of lore and despair, MOPs, eldritch corners of standard, feuding committees.
asciilifeform: it is more of a hand-saw.
ben_vulpes: sounded complex and unlikely to find a home between traditional turbine and rel-style multimodal rockets
ben_vulpes: so, gc'd
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: and?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it isn't really a language with 'greybeard potential', no dark corners, 50pg. standard. if you wanted to program your interstellar ship in it, you would go to look for intelligent engineers and teach'em forth (in about a day), rather than to look for 'forth greybeard'
asciilifeform: if this sounds perplexing, go an' pick up the language, it will take you an evening or so.
ben_vulpes: i suppose that i mean "men who have built their own shops out of forth"
asciilifeform: plenty of these
ben_vulpes: did not realize that greybeard meant "master of arcana", was using it to mean "wizards of great power"
asciilifeform: iirc we had a thread about an engine tuning d00d who ran one. on '80s micros too, to this day.
mircea_popescu: varies with user.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i can't resist asking:
asciilifeform: what the hell do you use for optics in a laser-ignited rocket motor ?
mircea_popescu: DIAMOND!!1
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not crackpotty enough
mircea_popescu: magnetically suspended carbon trioxide.
asciilifeform: i was picturing a tesla-valvular-conduit, with vortex flaps pointing in the direction of the exhaust, running the length of the rocket.
asciilifeform: and ordinary laser at the tip.
mircea_popescu: HILLARY CLINTON'S TRANSPARENT LIES
a111: Logged on 2015-01-10 01:30 asciilifeform: PeterL: at the time, various folks (including mr. t) were experimenting with electron tubes of various descriptions. t claimed to have one 'open to the air' on one end (!)
ben_vulpes: 'twasn't a rocket. did i say rocket?
ben_vulpes: i did say gc'd
ben_vulpes: but the memory fabricator insists it was derived from ice-likes
mircea_popescu: as in they sat around passing a glass pipe, ice ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you were thinking 'laser fusion' -- it's a cynical fraud, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-14#921351
a111: Logged on 2014-11-14 05:46 asciilifeform: http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/04/f14/Volume%201%20NNSA.pdf << mega-turd. i don't expect that anyone will read it. but i did. and will relate, how obscenely it brags about the extraordinary bezzle of the u.s. 'national ignition facility'
a111: Logged on 2016-07-11 16:29 asciilifeform: fundamental reason being, a gigantic machine employs and merit-washes 1,000,001 mediocrities
asciilifeform: but anyway
mircea_popescu: is this where your hatred of cyclotrons was nursed ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: 'internal combusion engine'
asciilifeform: i dun hate cyclotrons. but i do quite dislike ornate pseudoscientific frauds.
asciilifeform: and generators of 'Moar Studies Needed' (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: 'Но вы ж ведь там задохнетесь за синхрофазотронами, А тут места отличные — воздушные места!' (tm) (r) (vysotsky)
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i'd rather try to rescue drunks. << Is there any better way to stay sober?
phf pours some vodka into a походный алюминиевый стакан for asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: eh, nobody rescues em, that's why there's AA.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'u.s. national ignition centre' is an unholy cocktail of 'scientocracy'. it has three purposes: 1) ensure that laser-initiated fusion chain reaction is not discovered. (distant) 2) -- 'if discovered, must be under usg roof' 3) employ 1,000,000 'physics'-flavoured mediocrities
asciilifeform raises the glass, drinks.
asciilifeform wonders if mircea_popescu familiar with subj
asciilifeform: think 'chapeau claque' but for shot glass.
BingoBoingo: !!v F9AD9B2D545BDFB82E410F2A9B1A5591ADE8C0A48B56BE9F1DC4DBB9678E2335
deedbot: BingoBoingo rated gabriel_laddel_p -1 << Alleged Cali bum boi, Powerless and his life is unmanageable. Refuses submission to powers greater than himself.
pete_dushenski: speaking of raising a glass, how about one for the taiwanese politician who had a public funeral parade... with strippers... on jeep yj's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIB09qEy1Vk
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fwiw, "laster initiated fusion" is exactly under http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588196 ; do teh math, it's not there.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 06:44 ben_vulpes: lol yes, most boys
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's step 12
BingoBoingo: And there's always more drunks
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's not there. you can trivially ~initiate~, right in your kitchen, with laser. what nobody can do is ~confine~ so that chain react.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski not bad. so everyone's agreed, taiwan's a lost cause huh.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: the style is borne of living in middleclassistan. please excuse its regular recurrence. still working on growing out of this shadow.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in that sense you can initiate with prayer.
mircea_popescu: heck, you can "initiate" pair generation if you loosen it enough
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can initiate with hammer. we had thread.
asciilifeform: (it dun do much good)
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: tw is at least going out with a party.
mircea_popescu: yeah. good choice too.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so we did.
asciilifeform used to work with d00d from tw, interestingly a dbtronics greybeard, and asked him 'ready to fight for your motherland against dirty reds' . he looked as if beholding a martian
asciilifeform: said 'what have you smoked, nobody will fight'
mircea_popescu: they'll tweet about it though.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> it is more of a hand-saw. << IN other handsaw, potato quality pic http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/shelf.jpg
mircea_popescu: o look, it's just like a shelf!
BingoBoingo: Indeed, anyways ben_vulpes demanded pic
BingoBoingo: turns out making square cuts with handsaw is more of a challenge than I thought
BingoBoingo: *making square cuts freehand
BingoBoingo: hence 23 inch shelves instead of 24 inch as was planned
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, why no pair generation ? 1MeV photons, thin layer of heavy atoms to support the phenomena, strong magnetic field to separate the end products...
mircea_popescu: antimatter bomb much better than nuclear bomb.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: "proper bookshelf has doors"(tm)(r)
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: That's a bookcase.
BingoBoingo: You can close a case, a shelf just is
pete_dushenski: then no such thing as a proper bookshelf i guess
pete_dushenski: it's like proper windows computer
pete_dushenski: has many of the elements of a proper tool but isn't quite all the way there, even if it's a sterling example of its kind.
BingoBoingo: Nah, there's a substantial difference. A windows computer is an active evil. A bookshelf is a functional item that trades dust protection for not spending a second and a third day making doors and hinges
BingoBoingo: Anyways doors would have require 1x12 lumber instead of 1x8 lumber for the sides making the shelf heavier and less portable when loaded
pete_dushenski: are you planning on moving in the near term ?
pete_dushenski: even if you are, not like you can't hire movers
BingoBoingo: I live life one day at a time.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: you know i think my girl finally wrapped her head around that particular fabrication challenge in 2016
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: How did she take it?
ben_vulpes: "...and the wisdom to know the difference"
pete_dushenski presently updating bash reel for first time since october. needs more nominations u guise!
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