Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-12-16 | 2016-12-18 → ↓
mod6 is finally caught up on megal0g
BingoBoingo: trinque: When did I get the honor of becoming one of the Russians?
trinque: only whoever said nothing today said this.
BingoBoingo: Maybe I misread your pederasty comment?
trinque: was giving you the reason for it. justification for "confused" follows the claim, in any "polite company".
BingoBoingo would say he's confused but doesn't want to invite a dick into his mouth.
trinque: the pederasty comment is about the glee with which folks will erect a strawman, ("This is how it's defined." <-> "Why?") vs ("This is how it's defined?" <-> "No it's not.") to fuck, which has more to do with... primate brains, less to do with thinking.
trinque: pecking order is unavoidable but not nearly as interesting as the actual subject there was.
trinque: when the former supercedes the latter entirely, I'm out, retarded primates didn't contort their brains enough to think that day.
trinque: and if this "skewering the thing that wasn't said, to the great entertainment of das man" was widespread among SU intellectuals, that'd be a fine reason for them to have gone into decline.
trinque: to diminish nothing of the idiocy of those following right behind.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584330 << in these terms, statements regarding me (OP is a faggot) cannot be acted upon while retaining selfhood. statements about the world ~can~
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 18:17 mircea_popescu: what some psychologists then turn around and measure as "integration". but in any case, it's trivially evident that ~the world~ may be good or bad, but not the subject. observable at all scales, from the freeranged girlfriend of your choice to the us propaganda discussing aleppo/mosul.
BingoBoingo prolly ought to reread log
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, and this is truly lulzworthy : raiding party identified hot girl, set up a meet. at this meet it was established a) that she's from novosibirsk! and b) there was this dorky german fellow attached, who literally sat, by himself, at a table nearby while we had drinks and icecream and shit.
mircea_popescu: two hours in, the girl being a sweet soul, asked if he might be invited over ? so sure, dude's been playing the dog long enough, let him be invited over.
mircea_popescu: he is an engineer. he wants to know, inter alia, what do i do, and knows that "bitcoin isn't mined anymore". it becomes evident from conversation that she's living with him but isn't fucking him, and while the situation is perfectly acceptable to him, it's very tenuous for her.
mircea_popescu: so we mock him a little (which he germans through) and part on good friends. two days later, turns out she moved on.
mircea_popescu: we might have estranged a german engineer's mail order bride!
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2A62DFD5B677FF66899A8E546B66BCD3A4FBBF6C5F5056474B70CDF3E20B4E39 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1136...1469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '187.188.20.35 (ssh-rsa key from 187.188.20.35 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-188-20-187-188-20-35.iusacell.net. MX DIF)
mircea_popescu: tru story.
mircea_popescu: now let's see if i manage to get myself cut off for flooding.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584804 << dawg, this in-general commentary style is very confusing to me. parser fails pluriously and compiler identifies the following problems which for your convenience have been packed separately : a) the whole "[lowered into] pederasty" concept is used improperly. given alf's incessant usage this is understandable, but mind that alf tends to very finely abuse terms at the very edge of m
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 05:53 trinque: to diminish nothing of the idiocy of those following right behind.
mircea_popescu: isuse but not beyond. he's a very poor source to learn new words through practice from for this reason. in any case, some strong statements on the topic'd be that a.1) it's originally a vor ie russian prison system concept ; a.2) there's nothing ever fun about it, nor mirthful ; a.3) roosters and feathers are deeply involved for some reason. b) "only whoever said nothing today said this." is self-contradictory on the face - d
mircea_popescu: id they said nothing or this ? c) the principle "if you're going to say i'm a dog explain why!" is sound, but this is sadly not always possible. an eminent example of a class of cases when this isn't possible is when someone says something in direct and seeming wilful contradiction of logic. d) statements about you by others are statements about the world-you object as perceived by them not about the i-you subject as perceive
mircea_popescu: d by you. this one true largest gap in the theory of knowledge can not in practice ever be bridged, and must be allowed for. e) i don't understand which of the two examples given is a strawman nor how do the two examples given map to the conversation as it went. f) it seems to me very dubious altogether that there was a pecking order, as in, who's teh greatest lord consideration involved. on 2nd pass analysis (cuz originally
mircea_popescu: this didn't seem worth the evaluation so i passed it) a "pyramid of science" pecking order may well be involved, in the sense that "oh, we learned null sets in kindergarten" and phf's english, while formally fine, does not actually serve him well enough to convey this difference i don't suspect. g) what's "das man" ? h) how did ph
mircea_popescu: f get to be su intellectuals ? i'm not saying he is or isn't, it's just not clear. i) why do we think whatever intellectuals do or don't do has any impact on what eventually happens ? j) maybe russians just shed a skin, like reptiles ? their decline was kinda brief and they came out of it with fire under butt, apparently. certainly if you look at "which white man nation has a shot of being still around in 2116" ru doesn't bot
mircea_popescu: tom the list, but in any case the admixture's by now explosive there's been so many steps.
mircea_popescu: wowza check that out, it swallowed it. nice box!
Framedragger: as wanna-be rebellious as i sometimes pretend to be, re. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584820 d), this is maybe clearest way of illustrating what fundamental attribution error (socpsy notion) is, and support it via phenomenological (pardon the tongue) means. i mean, fair enough
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: id they said nothing or this ? c) the principle "if you're going to say i'm a dog explain why!" is sound, but this is sadly not always possible. an eminent example of a class of cases when this isn't possible is when someone says something in direct and seeming wilful contradiction of logic. d) statements about you by others are statements about the world-you object as perceived by them not about the i-you subject as perceive
Framedragger: and in retrospect, my "/me agrees" was maybe childish, but it wasn't, i must point out, any appeal to kons3nsus. it was more like, "i agree with this point and if anyone has any counterpoints, i'd like to address them, too." something like that.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D12C3ED7C732BD895BEF4E5D92C4903DA44B4AA71EB79922DB5742F7212BE721 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2475...7527 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.159.23.211 (ssh-rsa key from 62.159.23.211 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.multi-print.com. DE)
mircea_popescu: twas what i read it as at any rate.
Framedragger: ah, that's good to hear
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1A25A440A6948DDC300186004267B582590844049706A14D5DC9E7248ABA2C2F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1657...1019 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '167.114.38.10 (ssh-rsa key from 167.114.38.10 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CA QC)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F64664EE08F52D797EE62EC96FACD4F0DDB48D4F18385AEEA2F32AA7A8915D53 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2511...8629 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '148.216.53.29 (ssh-rsa key from 148.216.53.29 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX MIC)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/ED49B566A8C02328331EDA9E3B81F96FDE827E44385F6D94603ECE681A89F452 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1136...1469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '187.189.78.24 (ssh-rsa key from 187.189.78.24 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-189-78-187-189-78-24.iusacell.net. MX DIF)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2A62DFD5B677FF66899A8E546B66BCD3A4FBBF6C5F5056474B70CDF3E20B4E39 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1136...1469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '187.188.20.35 (ssh-rsa key from 187.188.20.35 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fixed-188-20-187-188-20-35.iusacell.net. MX DIF)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: I got an opendime on the way, what should I do re: >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542449
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 18:09 asciilifeform: 'There are a number of ways to verify the device; first, you can click on a link shown in the index.htm file present on the device. That link includes a signed message, that only an Opendime with access to the private key can generate.' << who wants to buy one of these things and see what the nonces look like.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger prolly http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584334 better example.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 18:18 mircea_popescu: if girl a sees girl b drop a vase girl a thinks girl b is clumsy ; if girl a sees girl a drop the same vase girl a tihnks the vase is slippery.
Framedragger: ah yeah, i missed that the first time as i had to run off, pity.
mircea_popescu: this is irl example, too. owning slaves = loads of fun, like kittens ^ akaname or somesuch.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 18:11 asciilifeform: gotta love the neverending attempt to make water non-wet.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger that said, the whole field of "socpsy" is poppycock, entirely in the manner of "moscow psychology" - it exists to try and justify a, in mussolini's terms, "Against individualism, the Fascist conception is for the State;" ( http://trilema.com/2013/sex-in-the-news/#selection-105.0-105.64 ). they even admit their "bedrock" is this "fundamental attribution error". they don't however admit that the whole point of this
mircea_popescu: pseudoscientific discipline is to push a individual-bad society-good political agenda.
mircea_popescu: (moscow psychology is famous for discovering that the city of moscow had the greatest concentration of sufferers of sluggish schizophrenia in teh world!)
mircea_popescu: (note, incidentally, how EXACTLY the us "liberal" discourse maps on 1920s chief fascist's discourse)
Framedragger: haha! right, yeah. good to keep that in mind. (subconsciously, i think, that's why i abbreviated the term, it's pretty derp.) it's sad that some (actually) useful notions are held under its umbrella (such as FAE, even though, yes, we've probably seen the latter defined elsewhere in other ways, and it's something that self-aware people tend to be conscious about anyway.)
mircea_popescu: note the "7,894" prices everywhere. because they won't fucking admit it's 10 btc for the life of 'em.
mircea_popescu: "The bulk of these projects are not provided in source code form and instead appear to be binary files, which further strengthens the hypothesis that these files were compromised from an operational staging post or actively obtained from a field operation. If they had been in source code format then this would suggest an insider leak is more likely, binary files are often used in operations over their source code counterpart.
mircea_popescu: " << journaho doesn't know how to compile, therefore imagines source and binary are two separate things, and not in the private-public key relationship.
mircea_popescu: sucks to be dumb i guess.
mircea_popescu: oh in other news, wikitardia apparently now blocking archive.is
asciilifeform: mega-soorprise
mircea_popescu: anyway, with thanks to Framedragger i contributed a little lulz to their pot : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error#Explanations
Framedragger: " removed a bunch of pseudoscientific poppycock" hahahahahah
asciilifeform: how long it stayed up for ? 5min ?
mircea_popescu: i'm sure it'll be up for a while
mircea_popescu: wikipedia is under a lot of pressure, very thin hr on the ground
mircea_popescu: strangely reminiscent of us presence in middle east really.
Framedragger: i wasn't even aware that their ghetto currently allowed editing of english wiki articles by unregistered accts
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584836 << iirc i described in agonizingly pedantic detail what 'to do'
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 13:56 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: I got an opendime on the way, what should I do re: >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542449
asciilifeform: whythefuck didja buy it if nfi what to do, thestringpuller !
mircea_popescu: gotta learn somehow eh!
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 18:40 asciilifeform: if i had time, i'd buy the thing and publicly rape it (differential power probe) but i haven't the time.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: though for starters you can just sign with it 10,000,001 times and probably derive the priv
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584846 << usa thoroughly beat all of the old records, though iirc they call it some other thing now, see tlp.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 14:19 mircea_popescu: (moscow psychology is famous for discovering that the city of moscow had the greatest concentration of sufferers of sluggish schizophrenia in teh world!)
mircea_popescu: and in other news the argentine cattlehead is the most incredible thing known to man. they literally have no indoor. whether it's 3am or 3pm, whether it's inside a hallway or out in a field somehwere, YOU WILL GET THE SAME BLAST!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha, the whole us shebang is very neatly su-inspired.
mircea_popescu: ^ no indoor ~voice~ i mean above.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 13:42 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D12C3ED7C732BD895BEF4E5D92C4903DA44B4AA71EB79922DB5742F7212BE721 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2475...7527 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.159.23.211 (ssh-rsa key from 62.159.23.211 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.multi-print.com. DE)
mircea_popescu: anyway, re the "world-you/i-you" dichotomy and the nonsensical "fundamental attribution error"/"socpsy" poppycock : the determinations of others as to you are made in the context of world-you, and correct or incorrect in THAT context ; your determinations as to you are made ~at your option~ in the context of i-you, and correct or incorrect in that context ; or in the context of world-you and correct or incorrect in THAT conte
mircea_popescu: xt. there is no "you" that'd allow any sort of ambiguity on this topic whatsoever, and the pretense to the contrary is what makes "socpsy" a non-scientific endeavour on the level of kindergaterners playing with cubes - they're not civil engineers!
asciilifeform: 'This IRC + GPG idea is growing legs. Lots of legs: RT @riking27: messages are max 512 bytes, it fits in a single RSA block it's perfect!'
mircea_popescu: i am persuaded that it is correct to hold the ability to reconcile the i-you and the world-you correctly from both perspectives as the one test of maturity of the individual. it is however trivial to empirically prove this is not always possible (which is the deep meaning as well as the intellectual relevancy of tragedy - and which is why the greeks or shakespeare matter, and some nigglet woman does not).
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is fundamental, like the ancient art of not shitting in pants
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform heh. how does it feel to be liek, in the center of a world so blinded by its central greatness it dares not even raise its eyes ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you'd be surprised.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: so you'd then perhaps say that, maybe, a transperson is doomed to not be able to reconcile i-you and world-you, and it is tragic to that person (but that *pretending* as if one has integrated the two in that instance is very stupid)?
mircea_popescu: back to welt der kunst for a moment : there is this (idiotarian) notion that the role of art is somehow "emotional" and a piece of crap is art if it "evokes" in the viewer. bullshit. the only point of art is exactly as above : if it provides persuasive examples of the nature discussed.
Framedragger: (hm, maybe you'd not allow for such a term (transperson) in the first place...)
mircea_popescu: this, ironically, makes most of eg "sci-fi" pulp ; and some parts of contemporary (esp visual) arts quite on point.
Framedragger: (for logz, an example of non-pulp scifi is, imho, "closer": http://eidolon.net/?story=Closer)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: i recall that one !
asciilifeform: d00d had a bunch of nifty pieces.
Framedragger: (yeah, imo its central focal point *is* the whole reconciliation issue, from epistemology point of view)
Framedragger: indeed...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584892 << i would say that pretending the integration "was already done", as if it were some sort of artefact like an oven rather than a process, like respiration ; or pretending that "someone else" is responsible for it being done (such as don't say word x in front of person y because o noes they're too frail to manage) is pure infantilism.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 15:19 Framedragger: mircea_popescu: so you'd then perhaps say that, maybe, a transperson is doomed to not be able to reconcile i-you and world-you, and it is tragic to that person (but that *pretending* as if one has integrated the two in that instance is very stupid)?
mircea_popescu: a transperson is no more or less doomed than any other person ; because, again, the gap is fundamental and can not be bridged.
mircea_popescu: just, since the transperson is more specified than the any other person, there is also a more accessible route to their doom
mircea_popescu: much like if you know it's king oedip, you kinda know ~how~ his integration will fail.
mircea_popescu: but this aside, the only reason you're "better" ie different is that you don't know.
mircea_popescu: not that you won't die.
mircea_popescu: (yes, fear of death, in the infantile form thereof is the deep driver behind the pretense of integration "not being a problem", not laziness or anything else.)
mircea_popescu: the ustards are a selection of people uniquely and colossal-y afraid of dying, which explains most of the psychopathology.
Framedragger: right!
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584886 << just fyi this is irony (this is that maciej dude)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 15:16 asciilifeform: in quite other lulz, https://archive.is/Z1ZkJ , https://archive.is/YZkj2
asciilifeform: who was that..?
Framedragger: !#s idlewords
a111: 16 results for "idlewords", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=idlewords
Framedragger: (heathen lack of WoT use is indeed frowned-upon and confusing)
mircea_popescu: and finally re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584334 : this isn't an "error" - there is perfectly good reason for the bias (bias is not automatically erroneous!) to flow this way : the event ~happened in the world~. when the event happens in the head, girl a sees girl b feel like a slut, decides girl b is drunk ; girl a sees girl a feel like a slut, decides she is a slut.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 18:18 mircea_popescu: if girl a sees girl b drop a vase girl a thinks girl b is clumsy ; if girl a sees girl a drop the same vase girl a tihnks the vase is slippery.
mircea_popescu: ie, in world-context the bias is for object ; and in i-context the bias is for subject.
mircea_popescu: which is why people never evaluate correctly neither whether they'll drop the vase too ; nor whether the suicidal depressive will actually kill themselves.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1A25A440A6948DDC300186004267B582590844049706A14D5DC9E7248ABA2C2F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1548...1259 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '167.114.38.10 (ssh-rsa key from 167.114.38.10 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CA QC)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F64664EE08F52D797EE62EC96FACD4F0DDB48D4F18385AEEA2F32AA7A8915D53 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1429...7773 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '148.216.53.29 (ssh-rsa key from 148.216.53.29 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX MIC)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D12C3ED7C732BD895BEF4E5D92C4903DA44B4AA71EB79922DB5742F7212BE721 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1491...2813 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.159.23.211 (ssh-rsa key from 62.159.23.211 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (mail.multi-print.com. DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/91C8954AC2724E6363A8849A8FCDF60F96635C9BBF971C0FDDEDB55D824B8524 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1549...6423 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '171.96.236.55 (ssh-rsa key from 171.96.236.55 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ppp-171-96-236-55.revip8.asianet.co.th. TH)
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/the-island-of-dr-moreau/ << Trilema - The Island of Dr. Moreau
mircea_popescu: in other news, btcbase logs 889 deedbot-reported recent phuctorings since april 30th, or about
mircea_popescu: !~calc 889/231
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 889/231 = 3.8484848484848486
mircea_popescu: on average.
asciilifeform: recall, it missed a good chunk of the debian burst
mircea_popescu: except there were 9 today, so it's certainly increasing velocity
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is that yeh
mircea_popescu: there's 247 unreported in the above figures (going by phuctor's stats page listing 1136 broken moduli atm)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, this sadmods page with its 640k entries is insanity. gotta ship that data in a better format than webpage.
asciilifeform: it's greppable!1111
asciilifeform: if i paginate it -- won't be
mircea_popescu: yes, it still will be, except you gotta put a for loop in the bash!
mircea_popescu: atm it's not fucking usable, it's been trying to load for 2 minutes.
asciilifeform: it'll be ~less~ usable unless i can figure out how to make the db work in parallel
mircea_popescu: aand 504
asciilifeform: right now the thing it hangs on is ~getting to the db at all, ever~
asciilifeform: because it gets 1000+ writes/sec
mircea_popescu: yeh sadmods can't be accessed. maybe just take the loi
mircea_popescu: the link* off altogether
asciilifeform: phuctor-3 (the next rev, naturally) will be static html
asciilifeform: generated nightly.
mircea_popescu: sensible, but even if it were - sadmods, a page worth 640mb may well not be worth doing as such. really i gotta dld a jiggabit of data every time ?
asciilifeform: atm i dun see another way of making the thing behave like a reasonable-people www.
mircea_popescu: paginate it and let me download as many pages as i wish
asciilifeform: aite, it'll be paginated.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, and i have to dig up a week-old thread, but this has to be done, i gotta deebot FUCKGOATS
asciilifeform: not even the pictures, just the genesis
asciilifeform: how do i do this.
asciilifeform: *deedbot
mod6: are you just trying to clearsign one vpatch then?
asciilifeform: mod6: v doesn't deal in clearsigned anythings
asciilifeform: you know that.
mod6: i do know that. :]
mod6: then this is a question for trinque; he'll know if deedbot can or can't deal with .sig files.
asciilifeform: and yes, i'm aware that i can take whatever and package it up in a uuencoded+clearsigned turd. but this is insanity.
mod6: it's your thing, you can do it however you see fit.
asciilifeform: i don't see any of the available options as 'fit' !!
mod6: then do nothing, until there is a solution.
asciilifeform: i gotta do this BEFORE MOTHERFUCKING CRATE SHIPS
asciilifeform: understand??
mod6: 'nothing' is always an option.
asciilifeform: say mr.crate opens his crate and finds rng that spew out marsaglia instead of trng bits.
asciilifeform: he asks 'what gives'
asciilifeform: i point TO DEEDBOT
mod6: what do you propose as the idea solution here?
mod6: *ideal
asciilifeform: ---- except that i can't because apparently we have 0 working infrastructure for actually releasing v code
asciilifeform: solution is that deedbot eats ordinary standalone gpg sigs.
asciilifeform: ( trinque ? how difficult this would be ? )
asciilifeform: to make clear what i need here, 1) i gotta put a source link on nosuchlabs.com 2) it must be a HUMAN READABLE + VALID vgenesis 3) it should be a link to deedbot.
deedbot: http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-drunken-explorer/ << Daniel P. Barron - The drunken explorer
Framedragger: asciilifeform: *for the time being*, can you not hash the package, and deedbot clearsigned hash of package?
Framedragger: sure, this isn't a logistical solution, but you'll be able to point to a timestamped-and-signed checksum.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ---- except that i can't because apparently we have 0 working infrastructure for actually releasing v code << i disagree with this. what we have, and trb isn't the only one who's done this, is; you make a mirror, and then v.pl deals with this. you grab all the vpatches you want, and the sigs from people you trust, and you place them in v, then you do what you wanna do.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: i can, and ~nobody will verify.
asciilifeform: this is no good.
Framedragger: isn't that their problem, not yours?
Framedragger: what use are they who do not verify anyway? do you expect those who do not verify to verify v sigs?
asciilifeform: this isn't the only problem
asciilifeform: how do i even phrase this
asciilifeform: i need to nail down the existence of the current cpld config prior to crate leaving.
Framedragger: (i am aware of vdiff barfing over certain character sequences. but maybe it'd be enough to timestamp-and-sign hash for now? to be able to *prove* things.)
asciilifeform: but to nail it down in such a way that it is immediately obvious to all visitors to my www.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the problem with signed tarball again ?
asciilifeform: ~obvious~, rather than pryable-apart-if-opposed
asciilifeform: does that make sense ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: tarballs ain't vgenesis
mircea_popescu: what exact problem are you trying to solve here ?
asciilifeform: i did not succeed in describing it above..?
mircea_popescu: not for the part where you don't like the solution.
mircea_popescu: you point to deedbot which contains signed tarball. what's the problem ?
asciilifeform: v should abolish the idiocy of 'signed tarballs'
Framedragger not sure why vgenesis must be used here, even though in the future that's the correct ideological pathway, sure. but i'm possibly underinformed and out of my element
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which brings us back to "what problem are you trying to solve"
asciilifeform: it's a motherfucking vgenesis, it's human-readable, AND signed, AND unmutilated, the way it stands
asciilifeform: and that's what i want up on the www.
asciilifeform: and not tarball.
mircea_popescu: if you've internally decided that you won't ship the items until "v demolishes the idiocy of tarballs" we have a problem.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> v should abolish the idiocy of 'signed tarballs' << it doesn't have to. so far, we don't even have anything of the kind. just vpatches + sigs. 'tis all.
mircea_popescu: link me to this item ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm about to upload, gimme a few min.
mircea_popescu: alright.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584981 << again, you however expect the nice-readable-plaintext v'd stuff to *be* verified, though?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 17:26 asciilifeform: Framedragger: i can, and ~nobody will verify.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542450 << this is the only procedure you gave from my grep of the logs...
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 18:10 asciilifeform: 'Can I re-seal after breaking the center? No. A permanent change is made inside the flash memory of the processor.' << which i can't remove and replace with identical-looking one, containing same procedure, exactly why...?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: plz to read today's log
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller the two evident avenues would be a) power differential analysis (ie, see how much electricity it eats, and parasite waveforms it induces). this is amply discussed on web re subverting gpg (eventually they got it to work with mere microphone, but same principle)
Framedragger: (but i think i got it why you don't want binary tarball - it'd sure be nice to be able to host a plaintext package, with v sigs etc right there. hm. but then why deedbot the *whole* thing - why not deedbot only hashes of tarball version of webthing. make webthing available to view, but also for those who wish to verify via deedbot, too, make tarball available. not pretty, but worx for *now*.)
mircea_popescu: and much cheaper b) make it encrypt the same thing a shitton of times and see if there's any key leakage.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger you're very loud and not very helpful.
Framedragger: sorry.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller neither of these are "easy" in the sense of windows. you'll have to do research and work the elbow grease to see results.
phf: mod6: we have the 3rd party signed tarballs, that we can't convert to v because of the binary problem. i think asciilifeform doesn't want to fallback to doing the same with own releases. wants to solve binary problem, or find some alternative solution. there's also been a lot of sentiment here against using sha/sig combination. "sign the thing itself" etc.
mircea_popescu: the part where "please don't make me turn ascii into tarballs" is sensible, just, lets see what he actually is talking about.
mod6: phf: oh i get it. i lead by example with trb on this. there is no good solution here. we do not want blobs in V, and somewhere between a-z you end up with a blob that must get signed along with the vpatches.
mod6: there may be some better solution to this with deedbot.
mod6: it currently does not exist.
mod6: now. if you need to ship, this instant. you either do what you can, as I did, or you do nothing until you can.
mod6: if I were him, this is what I would do: take the schematic blob, encode it, clearsign it with a note at the top and a hash of its output value. submit to deedbot. next, edit the code somewhere or prefereably create a README.txt that points to that deed, create a new fuckgoats_genesis.vpatch and fuckgoats_genesis.vpatch.alf.sig on nosuchlabs.com, point to them with your www.
mod6: done. ship it.
mod6: i'll even run a mirror of it myself if anyone would like me to do so.
mircea_popescu: mod6 hang on hang on, it's not even clear any actual blobs are involved this time around.
asciilifeform: there are no;t.
asciilifeform: they will be included strictly as sha512 in the 'readme'.
mod6: ok, cool! then just leave that part out.
asciilifeform: (packaging this up for the final posting as we speak)
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/shinohai-round-up-ready-shitcoin-crop-spoiler-the-crop-is-poo-corn/ << Qntra - Shinohai Round Up Ready Shitcoin Crop (Spoiler: The crop is poo corn)
mircea_popescu: shinohai technically, a value is not a range.
shinohai: this is true
shinohai: plox to edit BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: ty fxd
mircea_popescu always found the absence of the range datatype a kind-of lulzy thing in cs.
asciilifeform: absence where
asciilifeform: it is quite present in, e.g., ada.
asciilifeform: (painfully so)
mircea_popescu: in whatever ; javascript, facebook-php, ruby etc
mircea_popescu: basically, in the "mindshare" of the "community"
asciilifeform: the gap between the land of man and monkey -- is wide indeed
mod6: I think it would be really cool to have something like !!deedbot <wotpaste_of_vpatch> <pgp_sig_of_wotpaste_vpatch>
mircea_popescu: mod6 the only q is whether this isn't redundant ; and if it isn't, whether the utility doesn't belie bad design etc.
mod6: It could place those in, just as it does regular deeds.. I'd say, if anyone is a good lisp dev (phf, whomever) to work with trinque to get this feature put into place.
mircea_popescu: this needs a proper discussion, and the exact reforms/solutions aren't evident yet.
mod6: mircea_popescu: yeah, makse sense.
mod6: Once a solution is realized, I encourage you gentlemen to work together, putting previous disagreements aside.
mircea_popescu: i'm not working with these vecchi rottinculo!
mircea_popescu: (Deliziosa creatura, vuoi le mie mutande sporche, le mie vecchie mutande? Sai che ciò è di una raffinatezza impareggiabile? Vedi come sono sensibile al valore delle cose? Ascolta, angelo mio, io ho il più gran desiderio del mondo di contentarti in questo poiché sai che rispetto i gusti. I capricci, per barocchi che essi siano, li trovo tutti rispettabili. Sia perché non ne siamo arbitri, sia perché anche il più singola
mircea_popescu: re e il più bizzarro — a ben analizzarlo — risale sempre a un principe de délicatesse... e sì, vecchi rottinculo: esprit de délicatesse!)
mod6: lol
asciilifeform: in other lulz, meanwhile, ...85.25.214.23 - - [17/Dec/2016:18:00:54 +0000] "HEAD /wallet.tar.xz HTTP/1.1" 301 0 "-" "Opera" "-"..."HEAD /.365coin/365coin.conf HTTP/1.1" .... [and a MB of variations on theme!] ...
asciilifeform: 10,000,001 ways to store... wallet
asciilifeform: mindblowing.
mircea_popescu: !~google "365con.conf"
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Office 365 CON : The leading Online Conference for Office 365: <http://www.o365conference.com/>; Office 365 CON 2016 - Infusionsoft: <https://qlm.infusionsoft.com/app/page/ms-office-con-365-2016-tg-web-1>; Office 365 CON 2016 Keynote Sponsor - Infusionsoft: <https://qlm.infusionsoft.com/app/page/ms-office-con-365-2016-tg-keynote>
asciilifeform: didja know we had wallet in there, mircea_popescu ?? because apparently we are monkeys ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i imagine it's a global "search all accessible webservers connected to bitcoin".
mircea_popescu: the dubious part is how exactly it'd pay, the wallet encryption is strong as far as we know.
mircea_popescu: then again, if password is a1rPl4nE as per debian best practices...
asciilifeform: encryptions involving pw-entered-by-monkey is trivially breakable
asciilifeform: just try all 10,001 of'em.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fwiw, intel has file on 365 coin . keccak (because "Earth friendly") etc.
mircea_popescu: they even have an irc chan , it's me and a guy atm.
asciilifeform: lel, sounds very 2013
mircea_popescu: yeah it's not really worth money or anything.
asciilifeform: this wasn't funkenstein's thing was it.
mircea_popescu: nah that was something with wood or dwarves or such
BingoBoingo: Woodcoin, blocks added to chain by chopping
BingoBoingo: WHich is wrong, should be glueing, screwing, doweling, or mortise and tenon
BingoBoingo: Chopping Splits wood, joinery joins wood!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did i miss the v-item link or ?
phf: i think woodcoin is best altcoin. everyone else is going for the whole cyberpunk fastcompany vibe, while these guys are earnestly doing their own thing. it's like an elven technology department, established by young visionaries despite the disapproval of the elders, their servers all run on thermal generators somewhere in the cascadians, etc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not yet
mircea_popescu: man... look here, you throw total shitfit, i repress poor Framedragger to make some space for the discussion, you seamlessly move into vintage lulz and log readings. wth is this.
mircea_popescu: come to the argument with your argument prepared to be argued.
Framedragger: (eh i *am* obnoxious a bit)
mircea_popescu: no argument there :D
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ok here goes:
shinohai: !~bash 9
jhvh1: Last 9 lines bashed and pending publication
mircea_popescu: this is actually a pretty sensible scheme.
asciilifeform: also folx please note that this is NOT identical to the previously posted version (that, note, i never signed)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what is the matter with sending to deedbot the item #1 wrapped in a "This is a notarized version of the original root of the so and so project, prepared for this and that etc" ?
asciilifeform: the reason why, will become apparent to readers.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that it cannot be =?='d without human hands
asciilifeform: it is promisetronic step.
asciilifeform: but since nobody seems to have any better idea, i'ma deedbot a manifest.
mircea_popescu: but the point of deedbot is to contain signed matter intended for human hands ; it is why the signed matter intended for machine processing is a separate mechanism.
shinohai: asciilifeform: is this the `blessed` method for use with fg at moment?
mircea_popescu: no see, nevermind the practice. of major import here is the possibility that we've obtained a theoretical challenge through practice
mircea_popescu: so let's get the theory settled first and then act.
asciilifeform: shinohai: it is everything you theoretically need to make YOUR OWN FUCKGOATS
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aite, let's..
shinohai notes
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 18:26 mircea_popescu: but the point of deedbot is to contain signed matter intended for human hands ; it is why the signed matter intended for machine processing is a separate mechanism.
mircea_popescu: (in any case the reason that the two haven't merged sooner was that in my head business (ie, dealings in between people) and code (ie, dealings in between machines) were fundamentally separated. but i'm very interested in whether this notion actually stands to scrutiny.)
deedbot: accepted: 1
asciilifeform: (will update www page later today)
asciilifeform: i recommend to everyone here to read fg.v
asciilifeform: it's ~400 line
mircea_popescu: now that's what i call a technology company.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu wanders off to add danielpbarron eu patch and see what happens.
mats: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-10#1449699 << watched this, turned out to be pleb porn
a111: Logged on 2016-04-10 13:15 adlai: ;;later tell mircea_popescu submission for trilema movie reviews: Inside Man
asciilifeform: danke phf !!
asciilifeform: ^ folx who want to read, can read 'unofficial' here
mircea_popescu: incidentally, is there such a thing as an "ai code commenter" ? specifically, rather than the hard problem of "human speech" or junk of that nature, is there any machine approach to turning compileable code into literate code (kuhn) ?
mod6: To start a bit deeper of a discussion surrounding what we talked about with 'infrastructure' for V, if it's necessary or not, or whatever. I kinda put some thoughts down; http://dpaste.com/2S08M67.txt
mircea_popescu: mod6 you gotta get a blog. how am i gonna link a dpaste in 6 months ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the solrodar thread ?
mod6: I did that, as to not spam the channel here, and to try to think through what my entire thought might have been. If there is any merit to my thoughts, I'll post it somewhere.
mircea_popescu will read in a moment.,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so then. no such thing. it is ~impossible to machine anything useful out of code, if it were possible, it would be done by compiler and the ~language per se~ would include this intelligence.
mod6: Something just to start the thought of what to do about all of this. Maybe there is even some folding into a UCI with this, not sure.
mod6: Or tb0t for that matter.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and yet bounds checking is possible.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: depends in what
mircea_popescu: which is my point ; your negative is too strong.
asciilifeform: at runtime -- only if the cpu is 'smart' , or if the compiler stuffs in the check every single time
asciilifeform: (a la ada)
asciilifeform: at compile-time -- only if the language is properly constrained
asciilifeform: (a la haskell)
mod6: Eh, I don't even think I like my own idea.
mod6: Food for thought I guess. :/
phf: asciilifeform: i'm sad your schematic is missing the annotation. how will we know in thousand years time that it was indeed penned by the blessed leibowitz
asciilifeform: phf: eh what annotation
asciilifeform: also if the entire thing isn't bloody obvious, then i have nfi even
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think he means you didn't put your name on it
phf: ^
phf: ~it is also a joke~ i have no idea with you people any more
asciilifeform: hey the schem hashes are in 1) the v genesis + 2) the signed manifest
mircea_popescu: mod6 seems more like you want phf's bot to have an irc submission interface ?
mircea_popescu: which i think he intends to do on his own once he's happy with the whole tower ?
asciilifeform: phf: my sense of joke will come back when i'm done hand-testing the rng boards tonight and finally vacuum seal the last of'em
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's something fundamentally visceral about the written page you're entirely inadherent to, as seen here and in the case of clearsigns etc. pass by reference is not the same as pass by value!
mod6: yeah, that could probably be a decent feature there. i do recall phf talking about it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: tru
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta why i wanted the whole thing in the genesis.
mircea_popescu: but in truth there's two kinds of kids in the kindergarten, those who go around writing their name on all the cubes and those who go around pointing at all the things and saying "mine!"
asciilifeform: btw when i see symptoms that anybody has read fg.v i will tell an exciting story.
asciilifeform: about how i was a hair's breadth from concluding that we'd have to scrap the first set of boards
asciilifeform: because initially i could not get the yoke test to actually work as advertised.
asciilifeform: turns out, the clock crystals diverse after THREE MILLISECONDS, not 'hours'
asciilifeform: *diverge
asciilifeform: they dun make'em like they usedto.
mircea_popescu: dude wtf new process is this, they just bake 5mn and then filter out the working resonators out of a collodial suspension ?
asciilifeform: apparently.
asciilifeform: hey gotta cheapen so IPAD!!111!!1
mircea_popescu: remarkable.
mircea_popescu: this however is actually not to our detriment.
asciilifeform: but after week+ of worst headache in my living memory, i discovered a finesse.
mircea_popescu: "you mean the rng tool can't even keep fucking time ?" "aha"
asciilifeform: see line 324 of fg.v.
asciilifeform: FUCKGOATS can now... fuck.
mircea_popescu: ah shares clock
asciilifeform: i turned the 'reset' pin into a fuck-cloaca
mod6: heh, 'sad_dog'
shinohai: 💩
asciilifeform: btw in case there are folx who are not familiar with logic layout, this is not a comp proggy in the usual sense, it compiles to gate netlist
asciilifeform: (all of the 'always' blocks execute simultaneously, if 'execute' is even the word)
phf: welcome to dataflow country
asciilifeform: the thing sits down, in the end, using 71 out of the 72 macrocells in xc9572xl.
asciilifeform: shinohai: that hieroglyph doesn't display here...
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/fuckgoats-schematics-released-as-devices-ship/ << Qntra - FUCKGOATS Schematics Released As Devices Ship
phf: shinohai: your log link is broken
asciilifeform: and it isn't just 'the vpatches are available'
asciilifeform: note that only 1 of the items in the manifest (the first) is vpatch
Framedragger: asciilifeform: for my education, so the way to make yoke test work is that the 'master' part outputs its clock via the reset pin? (this is prolly what mircea_popescu meant but it's new territory for me).
shinohai: Can't have one without rest
Framedragger preemptively thanks for education
asciilifeform: Framedragger: correct, and the analogue rngs have to be sampled through a latch clocked by same clock
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584977 << in other news, check out the danielpbarron code narrative style!
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 17:24 deedbot: http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-drunken-explorer/ << Daniel P. Barron - The drunken explorer
mircea_popescu: Framedragger aha.
Framedragger: i see, very elegant!
asciilifeform: Framedragger: short version of the story goes like this. our analogue rng is an analogue device, and is not synched with anything! so it occasionally violates the hold time constraint of any digital circuit it happens to be plugged into
BingoBoingo: log link fxd
asciilifeform: the whole idea of 'digital circuit' is somewhat promisetronic
asciilifeform: there is no such animal in nature.
Framedragger: i see, hence the need to keep 'clock sync'
mircea_popescu: now question for the mathematicians in attendance : obviously we know that if you want to "keep bot mining tethered to this point" the approach is to implement drunk walk. this however will result in a gradient intensity of steps, decreasing from the origin. now - how do we shape the intensity distribution so that eg the maximal intensity is in a circle around the origin, while maintaining the desirable properties of the drun
mircea_popescu: k walk ?
asciilifeform: this also lets the owner test the functionality of his FUCKGOATS cpld and clock crystal SEPARATELY
asciilifeform: because diddled crystals -- are indeed possible
asciilifeform: physically, at any rate
mircea_popescu: "selected" i guess sure.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: make one 'leg' of the 'drunk' longer than the other.
asciilifeform: as in real life.
asciilifeform: (men walking in the desert)
mircea_popescu: which one ?
asciilifeform: either.
asciilifeform: result: circle.
asciilifeform: see? very simple
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron sound interesting ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform next i'm gonna specifically exclude beedogs when asking !
mircea_popescu: hehe. anyway. drunkwalk it's extremely beautiful/elegant solution to very serious class of problems, as exemplified in this minign thing. i'm having a ball with it.
mircea_popescu: i suspect i'm not the only one either.
asciilifeform: it is normally called 'hill climbing' in literature
asciilifeform: 'drunkard's walk' is when it is done wholly at-random
mircea_popescu: no this actually is drunk walk.
mircea_popescu: problem is "keep sample locations tethered to this origin"
asciilifeform: does the 'walker' know his distance from the origin ?
asciilifeform: (directly, that is)
asciilifeform: then can make each step 'cost' in proportion to the distance it puts between him and origin
mircea_popescu: (well, could, in this implementation doesn't bother to though)
mircea_popescu: could, yes
mircea_popescu: (also recommended reading - mr dantzig's work. now that was one hell of a homework doer.)
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584817 << could very well be that the habits of speech in RU and TX are so different as to cause severe friction. same effect happens between TX and just about anywhere in US, too. wasn't confused about what "lowered into pederasty" meant though.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584804 << dawg, this in-general commentary style is very confusing to me. parser fails pluriously and compiler identifies the following problems which for your convenience have been packed separately : a) the whole "[lowered into] pederasty" concept is used improperly. given alf's incessant usage this is understandable, but mind that alf tends to very finely abuse terms at the very edge of m
asciilifeform: trinque: did i miss something ? who was lowered into pederasty ?
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584820 << reasonable. can be a waste to miss the case where dog already wants to learn.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: id they said nothing or this ? c) the principle "if you're going to say i'm a dog explain why!" is sound, but this is sadly not always possible. an eminent example of a class of cases when this isn't possible is when someone says something in direct and seeming wilful contradiction of logic. d) statements about you by others are statements about the world-you object as perceived by them not about the i-you subject as perceive
asciilifeform: i reread the 'mean girlz' thread ,mustbe 3 times now, and still have nfi
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584822 << "das man" is heidegger's "the them", "people say you should wash your hands after taking a shit"
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 13:25 mircea_popescu: this didn't seem worth the evaluation so i passed it) a "pyramid of science" pecking order may well be involved, in the sense that "oh, we learned null sets in kindergarten" and phf's english, while formally fine, does not actually serve him well enough to convey this difference i don't suspect. g) what's "das man" ? h) how did ph
mircea_popescu: dasein, dasmein, ic.
trinque: yar
mircea_popescu: dasman, inexplicably, does not exist in literature.
mircea_popescu: dasmann*
trinque catching up, deeding detached sigs is not that hard
Framedragger: (exists, i think, in "being and time"? but i've only read excerpts, longish ago)
trinque has a seething hatred of the mind that holds the hive as the bedrock of reality, can cause a strong reaction.
Framedragger: (in .lt it's translated as "they" which is prolly not very good)
trinque: only insofar as "they cured cancer"
trinque: as idiots say
asciilifeform: btw in ru this construction does not exist, if you 'they' then you gotta point at ~who~, otherwise you cannot say 'they pissed in this lift', you must instead say 'this lift has been pissed in'
trinque: yeah, this "they" is an unfeature
asciilifeform: phf: what do the items, e.g., '(0 . 0)(1 . 437)', in your v-viewer, do ?
phf: it's the equivalent of diff's @@ -0,0 +1,437 @@. i just dump whatever's being stored in patch's fields, without any special formatting
phf: i can switch it to familiar format, but i only vaguely remember what the numbers actually mean. something about where the chunk is, and how many lines were dropped. etc.
asciilifeform: nono, this is better.
asciilifeform: eventually we WILL shoot gnudiff in the head.
asciilifeform: just -- not today.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger yeah, it's there.
mircea_popescu: "das man", that average animal of two goats and three rabbits. but still, two words etc.
asciilifeform: (detailed)
mod6: thanks, nice pics :]
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585207 << hehe pretty nice, like a monk scribing down book patch. btw danielpbarron, your Pi constant has a typo: you have 3.1415926545, should be 3.1415926535 (don't ask, i like memorizing useless stuff)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 19:16 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584977 << in other news, check out the danielpbarron code narrative style!
Framedragger: actually, that last "5" should be a 6 because the digit that follows is a 9
asciilifeform: btw folx may be interested to learn that the LM393 op-amp IS available from old soviet stock
Framedragger: danielpbarron: and since you have three occurrences of it in 3.1415926545 may as well make it into an actual constant var maybe? /trivial-grammer-nazi-notes
phf: or grab M_PI from math.h include
Framedragger: but that would be boring
phf: yeah, knuth's literate programming style prefers own defines to things like that, when a define is a property of code, rather than artifact of environment
asciilifeform: re: analogue rng, let's say you have a rat in a cage, want to use him for rng. you give him a toggle to press, connect it between 'out' and 'ground', with a pull-up to 'power' (10Kohm or more).
asciilifeform: see schematic for why this works.
asciilifeform: very easy to make a substitute for the current analogue board.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/the-wail-of-our-democracy-a-holiday-roundup-xtend-special-edition-tmr/ << Qntra - The Wail of "Our Democracy"! A Holiday Roundup Xtend Special Edition (TM)(R)
danielpbarron: ty Framedragger, fxd
danielpbarron: that was from memory so apparently i memorized it wrong
Framedragger: (just to be clear, there were two digits wrong (3.14159265_3_5), and the last one (it should go up by one due to proceeding digit). as phf said, math.h has that constant defined, but eh:)
asciilifeform: '“The bottom line is I do owe over $800,000 to Stratfor, Combined Systems, and the nonexistent law firm of Puckett and Faraj...'
danielpbarron: asciilifeform, what do you mean 'leg' re: drunk walk ?
Framedragger: in math terms, probably that when selecting new angle angle, there is a statistical bias towards one side from the current angle? so that if it were a person, one of the legs would be shorter, and the person would be inclined towards one side when walking somewhere.
Framedragger: (if you then draw path of person with enough datapoints (sufficient amount of choose-new-angle events), you'd get an arc/circle.)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 20:29 Framedragger: actually, that last "5" should be a 6 because the digit that follows is a 9
mircea_popescu: course the error here is enough to drift the miner one full step in 1bn explore attempts, which is far outside what anyone ever managed to do in one run.
Framedragger: maybe one day eulora will test the limits of common software when the exploration or quality determination during crafting or whatever requires infinite precision real numbers :p
Framedragger: (which is doable and there are libraries for it, it's just slow of course)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585289 << yeah i was thinking mammal rng is prolly not a bad idea
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 20:37 asciilifeform: re: analogue rng, let's say you have a rat in a cage, want to use him for rng. you give him a toggle to press, connect it between 'out' and 'ground', with a pull-up to 'power' (10Kohm or more).
mircea_popescu: Framedragger it already tests the limits of common understanding, with good stuff like pricing, industry models, etc.
mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform : actual usecase for FUCKGOATS in eulroa play : because the current mining software uses random to position the miner, the quality of the rng generator decides how likely you actually step outside of the coords you are. ie, if your rng is biased, you're more likely to go outside.
Framedragger: you know, sometimes i'm tempted to write up some kind of graphics-less (otherwise it's not feasible) civ-style simulator with proper economics, including contracts, liquidity etc etc. maybe eulora is the place to explore all that hm :)
mircea_popescu: so it's also a passive bias measurer lol.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger certainly going towards player-run towns etc.
Framedragger: awesome.
mircea_popescu: and yes, alt-client for emacs etc has long been desired. if you make it happen there's eulora riches for you.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585299 << if you set a ratio, and then make steps of different lengths by that ratio, your guy will not move around an origin, but around a circle that stands in same ratio with the outer "bound" circle.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 22:46 danielpbarron: asciilifeform, what do you mean 'leg' re: drunk walk ?
mircea_popescu: (this is not currently feasible in eulora ; but you could have a fixed ratio by togling walk/run each step)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger ^
mircea_popescu: it doth test things doesn't it :D
Framedragger: slippery slope into simulating anatomy! (is this bad? mno) :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's kinda lulzy the barrett dude never showed up, seeing how we're actually doing all he aimed to do a lot better w/o really trying. but hey, such is the power of the inept.
danielpbarron: no, run walk wouldn't do it. have to get a random number from 0 to pi and then randomly add pi to it based on a given chance
mircea_popescu: wait what ?
danielpbarron: the random from 0 to pi picks which angle to use within a certain half of the circle (of possible angles), and adding pi to it would put it in the other half
mircea_popescu: nevermind the angle, this is about the steps.
danielpbarron: i don't see how moving forward more or less after having turned a random angle would change the overall pattern
danielpbarron: Framedragger suggested that the character prefer to move left over right (or vice versa)
mircea_popescu: yes but that's nonsense.
danielpbarron: basically, prefer to move < pi rather than > pi
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron maybe try simulating it ?
danielpbarron: what should be the preference percent?
mircea_popescu: try 2:1 ratio say
danielpbarron: (another variable !!)
mircea_popescu: yeah there is that, in theory. in practice, you can't implement it anyway, walk/run toggle is all you got.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585307 << it's a pretty bad idea under most circumstances.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 23:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585289 << yeah i was thinking mammal rng is prolly not a bad idea
danielpbarron: could add another number to the already long /bot explore command
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: don't think that's nonsense - it's simply introducing a bias into choosing "which direction - left or right - should i prefer", no? or do you mean that it's not "realistic" and would look stupid? (maybe...)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger if you introduce that bias you turn it into directional movement.
mircea_popescu: which yes, can have its uses.
mircea_popescu: just, wasn't the stated problem.
Framedragger: ah, i was probably under the assumption that the movement was already directional, i.e. that the next-angle-choice was infrequent...
mircea_popescu: (fwiw, the "uninterceptable" missiles go like that)
mircea_popescu: how frequent it is also dun figure into things :)
Framedragger: i guess you're right :/
Framedragger: anyway:
Framedragger: !$ getarchive trilema.com
Framedragger: ah cmon scriba
scriba: Previously archived URL: http://archive.is/egpVJ (this was archived by scriba: yes)
Framedragger: oh, i know the issue. damn. basically as part of its "have i archived this?" check it greps through log of "i archived this:"; the "dev" instance was crawling through a 500K logfile, the production one however has to cope with ~220M logfile. not feasible...
mircea_popescu: well evidently feasible, he just did it.
Framedragger: this was meant to be a reaction to http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585136 - the dpaste link had been archived, this would help an operator to quickly retrieve that archived url.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 18:44 mircea_popescu: mod6 you gotta get a blog. how am i gonna link a dpaste in 6 months ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585299 << i was referring to the actual, meatspace phenomenon where a man lacking a compass in a desert will walk in circles and die, being as no one's legs are of precisely identical length
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 22:46 danielpbarron: asciilifeform, what do you mean 'leg' re: drunk walk ?
Framedragger: yes, just horribly slow. will look into solutions
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your kindergarten went out of business, what can i tell you.
asciilifeform: evidently.
asciilifeform: perhaps better example is how airplane with 'tricycle' landing gear is steered while 'taxiing'
asciilifeform: (differential braking)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585310 << this is when i ask what a 'miner' is in eulora (is this explained somewhere ?)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 23:11 mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform : actual usecase for FUCKGOATS in eulroa play : because the current mining software uses random to position the miner, the quality of the rng generator decides how likely you actually step outside of the coords you are. ie, if your rng is biased, you're more likely to go outside.
danielpbarron: mining generally means running foxybot which gathers (/explore) and optionally builds the resulting exploration markers and collects the resulting resources
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1585322 << the linked piece suggested that he was properly broken by the jailers, walks around terrified that even his usg-issued winblows comp is too much of a sin
a111: Logged on 2016-12-17 23:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's kinda lulzy the barrett dude never showed up, seeing how we're actually doing all he aimed to do a lot better w/o really trying. but hey, such is the power of the inept.
danielpbarron: the default method is 'line' which doesn't use rand(). but i've recently added a method which uses rand() to choose which direction to turn before moving to the next /explore attempt
danielpbarron: the randomness is generated and used strictly on the user's end. the server doesn't care which direction you walk
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very much what it says on the tin, you go out with tools and materials, find natural resources, develop them and get minerals.
Framedragger: !$ getarchive trilema.com
scriba: Previously archived URL: http://archive.is/egpVJ (this was archived by scriba: yes)
Framedragger: k fixd.
Framedragger: (only worx for URLs that had already been archived on archive.is (doesn't matter if by scriba or not))
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and at what bitrate does user consume entropy to steer his harvester ?
asciilifeform: https://medium.com/@thegrugq/the-great-cyber-game-commentary-3-a1ae9a70e399 << lulzy, yet another Great World-Famous Seek000000rity Researcher with a ...keybase
shinohai: That's one of the biggest `Signal+Tor makes you invincible!!!!!` guys too.
asciilifeform: it's almost as if the 2014-15 tor busts neverhappened(tm)
asciilifeform: 'The Jewish Culture Committee wrote back to Adolf Martin advising him to accept the offer because according to their inside information, the Jew Artur Israel Pollak was scheduled to be deported soon to the Generalgouvernement (occupied Poland) and would probably end up in the Warsaw ghetto. Adolf Martin then agreed to the proposal hoping that, in the event that Pollak’s belongings were auctioned off he would finally get a lump sum an
asciilifeform: hat way, auctioneer Knoch pocketed the money.'
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-18#1585380 << grugq made a funny post at some point where he says that the notorious big's track "ten crack commandments" was all you needed to know about opsec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYb_8MM1tGQ which i thought was cool in that phrack gonzo way, but otherwise he's yet another infosec personality with all the trappings
a111: Logged on 2016-12-18 00:38 asciilifeform: https://medium.com/@thegrugq/the-great-cyber-game-commentary-3-a1ae9a70e399 << lulzy, yet another Great World-Famous Seek000000rity Researcher with a ...keybase
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BB00D032684518BC104086034CC744E677AE07664721CCE57688F6783ACBBD03 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...4129 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.165.221.89 (ssh-rsa key from 46.165.221.89 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (s101.deinprovider.de. DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/91C8954AC2724E6363A8849A8FCDF60F96635C9BBF971C0FDDEDB55D824B8524 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1579...0467 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '171.96.236.55 (ssh-rsa key from 171.96.236.55 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ppp-171-96-236-55.revip8.asianet.co.th. TH)
asciilifeform: phf: that was epic
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/gmo-superweed-approved-for-commercial-sale-in-waning-days-of-hussein-bahamas-usda/ << Qntra - GMO Superweed Approved For Commercial Sale In Waning Days Of Hussein Bahamas USDA
BingoBoingo: ^ Povertree is back!
BingoBoingo wonders if Monsanto has found a mesotrione resistance gene
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BB00D032684518BC104086034CC744E677AE07664721CCE57688F6783ACBBD03 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1175...0683 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.165.221.89 (ssh-rsa key from 46.165.221.89 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (s101.deinprovider.de. DE)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-18 01:51 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BB00D032684518BC104086034CC744E677AE07664721CCE57688F6783ACBBD03 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...4129 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.165.221.89 (ssh-rsa key from 46.165.221.89 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (s101.deinprovider.de. DE)
asciilifeform: and hey there it is again.
BingoBoingo: Oh my, very near miss!
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