Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-09-14 | 2016-09-16 → ↓
asciilifeform: we're headed to 'Му sister, do you still recall, как Ельцин бился мордой в пол…' arent we.
deedbot: http://thestringpuller.com/2016/09/coppin-louie-loafers-just-to-thug-in-em/ << Pull Your Own Strings - Coppin Louie Loafers Just to Thug in Em
BingoBoingo: ty tsp
mircea_popescu: and in other jours de la francophonie news, "Please carefully read. Sorry for the inconveniences it might occur to you, maybe if youЎЇre not interested in this my proposal I will be offering to you now, and again also I will be very sorry if my English writings do not meet your expectationЎЇs, please try to understands my country is officially a French speaking country, but I have to use English language for writing you
mircea_popescu: in the way I can, because itЎЇs the world general business language which can simply understand in anywhere in the world, well I am the son of the former president of Cote D'Ivoire (ivory coast) in west Africa Mr. Laurent Gbagbo."
mircea_popescu: (the guy being impersonated is kinda interesting, a sort of rhodesia.fr)
asciilifeform: in other lultronics, https://github.com/elendirx/web2web << i liked even 'freenet' moar. the endless xerocopies of xerocopies of ...
asciilifeform: i still dun get how the thing worx without downloading entire blockchain
asciilifeform: cheat with bc.info or similar, is my guess.
asciilifeform: and yes. '$.get('https://blockexplorer.com/api/txs/?address=' + CONFIG.btcAddress)'
asciilifeform: idiots.
asciilifeform: 'polish astronaut'
asciilifeform: 'we'll fly to the sun! at night!'
thestringpuller: double spending as a service >> http://archive.is/n7rMW << i really wish the VER-ified crowd would stop saying unconfirmed transactions are a yoose case
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: lulzy pinoy campaign. appears to promote the idea that there is such a thing as being successfully double-spent against as a user of actual bitcoin.
asciilifeform: which is poppycock to the literate folk, but they are not the target audience.
asciilifeform: why are you eating in the latrine pit thestringpuller ? you ain't a pig
thestringpuller: boredom at work
asciilifeform: what sort of work do you do , thestringpuller ?
thestringpuller: Also not eating latrine pit, I have to work in it. Not all of us are blessed enough to have kooshy uranium mine job like asciilifeform or mats. As for the type of work >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-23#1488309 << is a good description.
a111: Logged on 2016-06-23 15:11 mircea_popescu: "i understand ruby! put it in docker and rub puppett on your clittie!"
thestringpuller: I was knee deep in a project that used all 3 a couple days ago. I'm still washing off the stench :(
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i was referring to the pinoy pit of 'bitcoin' 'news', rather than the salt mine thestringpuller toils in.
thestringpuller: well salt mine is actually a latrine too. everything pretty much smells like shit when clean latrines all day.
trinque wakes up, blinks
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu dulap is down and i have no idea why. dead ping.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542182 << they overlap in that one contains a class ircbot, which is then extended to be a logbot (i.e. one who reads and writes from postgresql)
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 02:36 phf: the patches in question, http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot . i actually have no idea how they overlap if at all.
trinque: there is no small amount of lines anyone will read?
asciilifeform: trinque: i read it.
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu apparently false alarm - was unreachable from usa for several minutes
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
trinque: iirc ben_vulpes did too, so I retract the "anyone"
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542190 << asdf is the "system" manager, wouldn't be needed in scrollcode world
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 02:39 mircea_popescu: create two copies of this "asdf" platonic solid, place them appropriately, they will be distinct items. and proceed.
trinque: but I think this would be an interesting experiment, and should be possible in lisp
asciilifeform: trinque: read the thread. and, for that matter, the tinyscheme thread. mircea_popescu has a very particular idea of what 'abolish libraries' entails.
trinque: to programmatically slurp all used items into your own code
peterl: !!v 8E6A5A612E4CA2389D2CE81A7C151370D281FDF3F4EA90718678A7D1B6613CF7
deedbot: peterl rated scoopbot 1 << A bot I made
asciilifeform: trinque: a fully vtronic replacement for asdf and quicklisp would rock
trinque: asciilifeform: yeah, and I said a while back I will perhaps sign an implementation of RSA, but *never* a large crypto library
trinque: asciilifeform: oh yes it would.
asciilifeform: where i could, e.g., (require "a591af341ff436f6a3391aa5163f6bc366358b719427154f88815d87213798c92eae4923e6be147b92c04562619564d7a64ad9ac51ca08e5165b0b4b3da9813a") would bring in ircbot
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/trilingual-charm-harm/ << Trilema - Trilingual Charm-Harm
asciilifeform: and if it is found on my disk, then it loads, otherwise asks permission to look in various preprogrammed places
trinque driving for a bit, will rejoin thread in ~1hr
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the main cause of all the turmoil whenever we discuss this particular thing is that you keep confusing syntax and meta-syntax. but it's finally clearing up, because eg. "where i could, e.g., (require "a591af34" is starting to sound like sanity, which is to say, that you import primitives rather than collations.
mircea_popescu: the concept of "library" as "this collection of primitives" is meta-syntactic, and strictly personal idiomatic. that a bunch of anglotards try this thing where they "all mean nigger in the same sense - and everyone always does!" is just you know, anglotards being anglotards.
mircea_popescu: the concept of "require" as "this particular primitive" is one thing ; but the way it's practiced and the way fucking galls me is as "this particular collection".
mircea_popescu: in sanity, you are supposed to a) be acquainted with functions, objects, structures, etc by name ; and on the grounds of having read and wrote them until they revealed all their secrets, no "we got to second base" bullshit ; b) import them, and them only. which is why "require library" is so fucking idiotic.
mircea_popescu: and if you CAN'T do this, then the solution is to go, read. i also can't speak maori, but this doesn't mean i sit around and make "maori sounding" noises.
Framedragger: mein gott. decided to deploy one of the newer 'productivity web apps' for work, official install is through docker, and *obviously* official docker install is `wget -qO- https://get.docker.com/ | sh`. BUT LOOK at the end of that legit2000.sh is:
Framedragger: # wrapped up in a function so that we have some protection against only getting
Framedragger: # half the file during "curl | sh"
Framedragger: do_install
Framedragger: IT'S ALL GOOD GUYS I'VE GOT DIS
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542326 << i suspect that we didn't actually disagree on this to begin with.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 14:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the main cause of all the turmoil whenever we discuss this particular thing is that you keep confusing syntax and meta-syntax. but it's finally clearing up, because eg. "where i could, e.g., (require "a591af34" is starting to sound like sanity, which is to say, that you import primitives rather than collations.
asciilifeform: notation problem.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: thanks for reminding me of kharms, that's *one* modern russian writer i've actually read (in .lt), good stuff. recall reading it on a bench in park with friend and a bottle of something strong between us. people smirked at us, i smirked back
shinohai: !~lazerkittens
jhvh1: ุ ₍˄.͡˳̫.˄₎ ุ ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew*
thestringpuller: Framedragger: OMG. You have spoken exactly what I feel with all our dockerized apps.
thestringpuller: I want to make it stop.
phf: trinque: i was being fanciful. i used most of the ircbot for a111, so had to at least stackoverflow read it ;P
phf: i think asdf is evil, version 3 is doing some straight up systemd shit. for those who don't know asdf 3 comes with fare's own portability layer called uiop, which in a very systemd agressive and underhanded style is superseding existing utility libraries.
asciilifeform recalls thread
asciilifeform: it got 'flycheck'-ed.
phf: indeed, and it's also very idiosyncratic, to the point where i don't think anyone but Fare can work on it. on a whim i switched my system to asdf 1.* (last release before peanut gallery took asdf over) and not surprisingly everything works, ~except~ when project explicitly relies on asdf3 functionality, which is exclusively test hooks, uiop and hardcoded "needs asdf>3" requirements
asciilifeform: phf: there are two and precisely two kinds of heathen proggy: the kind that's been poetteringized, and the kind that will be.
phf: :)
asciilifeform: which is why any item that is of interest here, ought to be picked up and nailed to the floor, as i nailed trb's deps.
phf: in related news i finally read genera's defsystem spec and not only does it ~makes sense~ it's also obvious that first takes on c-land defsystems was a pale imitation of original functionality, i.e. слышит звон но не знает где он
asciilifeform: noshit.jpg
asciilifeform: btw phf , can haz schematics ?
asciilifeform: what do you need to make'em happen ?
asciilifeform: bigger camera ?
phf: maybe
asciilifeform: in unrelated noose, one of my recent digs concluded with the sad discovery that nobody on the planet is any longer supplying microcontrollers with uv window eprom in appreciable qty.
asciilifeform: at any price.
Framedragger: phf: is that spec available online somewhere (or, keywords) by any chance? curious to take a peek at some point.. is it published by symbolics?
Framedragger: oh - much thanks
Framedragger: neeeat.
phf: Framedragger: entire set of symbolics documents is on the bitsavers, i can track down relevant bits for you, but it'll take a bit, since i was reading it on a lispm
Framedragger: phf: aha, bitsavers, noted, thanks! alf's archive.org copy should do just fine.. there's even plain text format, doesn't appear to be garbled
Framedragger: phf: niice. thanks
asciilifeform: Framedragger: these really wanted to be read on the machine, it was the original and - imho - still best of all time 'context doc' system
phf: Framedragger: alf's archive link ~is~ bitsavers, it's just not like 1 pdf. it's about 200 of them, so you kind of need to narrow it down a bit
asciilifeform: i have the dead tree version, it was given to me as a gift by an old and tired ex-mit fella
asciilifeform: takes up most of a shelf.
phf: i'm hoping that for my deeds dks will grant me a boon, "i asked 'er for a hair from her head. she gave me three"
asciilifeform: at the time i was fixated on ~cloning~ the machine and was quite disappointed with the docs, there is minimal discussion of internals.
asciilifeform: i even offered to dks to make formal commercial partnership to build clone, and he gave impression that he was interested but unfree to agree
asciilifeform: but this was long ago.
asciilifeform: (per my estimate of the transistor count, i'd say that a 100% cycle-for-cycle clone could handily sit down in a $100 fpga and leave plenty of room for, e.g., modern colour vga, etc.)
Framedragger: phf: ah gotcha, just checked
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't think we did, no.
mircea_popescu: phf the moral being that communities belong enslaved ; and not in control.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger there's this deep pastoral root of his specific flavour ; he sounds in a sense like twain, and like jerome k jerome, and like the arab absurdists.
asciilifeform: phf and possibly other folks will find v. toth's ~entire www interesting. it is one of these quite educational but at same time mega-depressing 'these people aren't made any moar' affairs.
shinohai: add trilema.com to twitter bot and get 250k impressions in a week
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542362 << amazing link, justifies archiveception: http://archive.is/tzDax
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 15:22 asciilifeform: Framedragger: https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_symbolics << a start
asciilifeform: adlai: that didn't actually save anything...
asciilifeform: ( does adlai post by morsing on the wall of his cell ? he hardly ever speaks these days )
phf: when i hear the word community ..., i release the safety on my browning
asciilifeform: komyoooniti.
adlai learned that before pressing the clock, he counts again liberties of each group. this is as relevant to irc as it is to pokemon.
asciilifeform: looks like fella got a 1st class barbed wire education.
asciilifeform takes off hat.
adlai: sadly the archiveception waned oiotoshic
phf: they are much better with thought control, out there in jew land. former ussr engineers, what do you expect.
adlai: EUGENICISTS LITERALLY GENOCIDE HIM
trinque: ah, that's more like it adlai
trinque: lol
trinque hasn't had a good deed poem in a while
adlai hasn't had a ~good~ deed poem in his entire life
shinohai: thy rod and thy staff they comfort me
mircea_popescu: "one day, orlov got indigestion from a pea dish, and died. krilov, hearing such, died too. spiridonov however died all by himself. and his wife fell from the cupboard and also died. and his children drowned in a pond. and his grandmother took to the bottle and started hitchhiking."
adlai: "... and then there were none"
mircea_popescu: such pravoslavnic folk and they can't find themselves a stable situation.
adlai: what do horse quarters have to do with the price of eggs in wottistan?
adlai: anyway, it turns out that there is 'free energy' to be scalped off markets other than s.mpoe[RIP]. who'da thunk?
adlai: ARE WE THE GODS OF OUR UNIVERSE?
phf: :)
asciilifeform: http://frass.woodcoin.org/rip-the-news-1704-2013 << in other noose, funkenstein_ reports 'death of news'. lulzy.
asciilifeform: (well, other olds.)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo, pete_dushenski: recommendations for wp footnote plugin? footnotes-in-footnotes would be a grand feature if any can do that and it's not a mp-wp-footnotes custom job
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it isn't clear that the thing needs to be a plugin
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: just generate the necessary html on own box prior to posting
ben_vulpes frowns
phf: moar plugins!
ben_vulpes: great, back into org mode export html cranking
asciilifeform: srsly tell me why this needs to live on server.
ben_vulpes: shan't
phf: mp's footnotes have a nifty feature, where each footnote is unique over the publishing history. would be hard to do it manually
asciilifeform: phf: then keep a (gensym) thing on the server you can call.
phf: ben_vulpes: don't listen to him, he's insane
ben_vulpes: why do unique footnotes over whole thing matter?
phf: i see how it is
ben_vulpes: hey genuinely curious what you see in that
ben_vulpes: other than creeping featuritis
ben_vulpes: (featuritits oblig)
phf: when you include multiple articles in an aggregation, footnotes just work(tm)
ben_vulpes: ah that is handy
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes footnotes in footnote i actually do by hand.
mircea_popescu: deliberately, too. some things should be painful to produce.
asciilifeform: https://opendime.com << moar great promisetronics. 'There is no way to input data as the drive is read-only. Also, a new random nonce is signed each time you power up device. You can also plug/re-plug to get a new nonce and matching signature.' etc.
mircea_popescu: phf i see somebody's been doing some things!
mircea_popescu: this'd be the exactly counterpart to the very common "mp is in heaven and i am in hell, life is so unfair" ever-so-common approach. "oh look, i thought i too had a blog ; except check out what a proper one actually does!"
ben_vulpes: how'd you arrange for the unique-over-blog handles?
mircea_popescu: you know you already have the code.
ben_vulpes to dig
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/the-human-latrine-pig/#identifier_9_68858 << notice the identifier part. images work the same way, eg class="aligncenter size-large wp-image-68863 in that same article.
mircea_popescu: from which we find that, remarkably, by mid sept 2016 trilema had published 68.8k footnotes and 68.8k images.
mircea_popescu: within a tolerance of o.01%
asciilifeform: re: earlier link, https://github.com/opendime/opendime/blob/master/unsealed/advanced/rngverify.py << if you read this, it is trivially obvious that the manufacturer can trivially supply a secret (presumably a pill against their rng) that would allow a user to silently spend the contents of a 'sealed' drive. ~how~ is left as exercise for readers.
asciilifeform: whole thing linked here solely to illustrate the kind of braindamage without which promisetronics could not exist. it occurs to no one to ask ~what ensure that it behaves like-so~.
asciilifeform: *ensures
mircea_popescu shall now read
asciilifeform: ( generally there are few enough active sc4mz0rz peddling hardware that i normally take the sweat to read their output, it is educational )
asciilifeform: 'There are a number of ways to verify the device; first, you can click on a link shown in the index.htm file present on the device. That link includes a signed message, that only an Opendime with access to the private key can generate.' << who wants to buy one of these things and see what the nonces look like.
asciilifeform: 'Can I re-seal after breaking the center? No. A permanent change is made inside the flash memory of the processor.' << which i can't remove and replace with identical-looking one, containing same procedure, exactly why...?
asciilifeform: gotta love the neverending attempt to make water non-wet.
asciilifeform: it is not especially hard to make physically-indistinguishable device where i know privkey in advance before giving the 'uncopyable' item to a chump.
asciilifeform: i quite enjoy reading about machines that are ~intrinsic~ scamatrons - i.e. the design cannot possibly be described as 'honest mistake', or even product of ordinary stupidity
asciilifeform: but rather it is a carefully-designed weapon against the buyer, who pays for, aims, and fires it with own hands...
asciilifeform: 'Restrictions. You shall not: (a) except as expressly permitted herein, reproduce, duplicate, copy, disclose, sell, resell, sublicense, distribute, assign, transfer, give away, loan, lend, lease, publish, pledge or create a security interest in the Software or use the Software other than in connection with the Product on which it is included; (b) modify, port, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, unbundle, repackage, decompile, disass
asciilifeform: emble or convert into human readable form any part of the Product or Software or create derivative works based on, or any competitive or emulating software, service or solution using, any Product or Software; ' << moar lel
mircea_popescu: hey, derps got rights.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the protection here is that if indeed this item is to be used "like a dollar bill", then that's protection enough.
mircea_popescu: it's not worth it to third party to copy for one dollar ; and otherwise the supply floats at the pleasure of the issuer.
mircea_popescu: so buyer is getting literally what was promised him : a small USB stick that allows you to spend Bitcoin like a dollar bill.
asciilifeform: problem begins when it is a $1000 bill.
mircea_popescu: yeah, well. problem begins when consumer prefers to pretend everything scales liniarly.
asciilifeform: but also from the sheer antipedagogic (is there better term?) effect of the thing even being taken seriously by anyone.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, to be a consumer means - you get comfortable X, and no possibility to scale it.
mircea_popescu: how is it antipedagogic ? is fire antipedagogic also ?
mircea_popescu: if judged by effects, fire is more pedagogic than university.
asciilifeform: 'Yes. It's like a piggy-bank. You must destroy it to spend the funds. At first that seems expensive and wasteful, but it's a key part of our security model: you can trust a sealed Opendime, and it's obvious when it's been opened.' etc. is a lie.
asciilifeform: fire is not a sham sold under wholly spurious pretense.
mircea_popescu: o, really ?
mircea_popescu: whoever sells fire is selling the sizzle :)
asciilifeform: really 'opendime' is a small variation on the tired old 'physical coins' theme.
mircea_popescu: kinda has to be neh.
asciilifeform: but with moar faux 'proof' slathered on (it signs a helloworld with the privkey every time it is switched on, etc.)
asciilifeform: if i had time, i'd buy the thing and publicly rape it (differential power probe) but i haven't the time.
asciilifeform: good student project.
mircea_popescu: the part you don't seem to at all grasp is that ~nobody cares.
asciilifeform: i do grasp. this crud tends to go away very quickly.
mircea_popescu: literally. there are more of these vomit kernels "published" on social media than there are readers.
mircea_popescu: by a factor of about 500
asciilifeform: not so many hardwaretronic scams.
mircea_popescu: you might as well apply basic grammar to myspace postings.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when, e.g., mod6 goes into the forest to teach woman how to shoot a turkey, he presumably does not do it because the individual turkey was important.
mircea_popescu: wait, this was a "basics of hardware reverse engineering" class ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the curriculum, if you will, of 'sane hardware' consists of public rapes.
thestringpuller: is opendime that bullshit open hardware wallet?
mircea_popescu: your material is very dubiously organised!
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: one of.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: and you ask why I'm trudging through the latrines?
asciilifeform: eh this here's a high-class latrine, with imperial human pigwimminz
asciilifeform: not some village dirtpit!1111111
thestringpuller: really!?!?!? just because one latrine is dirt and the other is marble you don't care about the smell of the shit?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it isn't that the shit stinks less, but that latrine with pig is educational, vs the other kind.
thestringpuller: in the way human centipede is educational?
thestringpuller: but i understand. i would be interested to see asciilifeform design of "opendime-like" device
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: you won't.
asciilifeform: because whole concept is braindamaged.
asciilifeform: this was not clear from my observations ?
thestringpuller: lemme rephrase "I'm interested in scheme by ALF for offline BTC exchange"
asciilifeform: again you won't
asciilifeform: because fundamentally braindamaged.
asciilifeform: bitcoin is only working in its design envelope when moved by broadcasting actual tx.
thestringpuller: Is it braindamaged if you give ben_vulpes bag of benjies and he hands you paper wallet?
asciilifeform: or by sitting still.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: yes if you're playing single-shot 'dilemma'.
asciilifeform: and you haven't been 'paid in btc' until the coins land in addr for which you have sole control of privkey.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: lemme ask this. Lets say TMSR existed on meatspace island. ben_vulpes mod6 phf asciilifeform are all small business owners. Would you trust exchanging "phsyical btc" with them and only them, or still only in "one shot scenario"?
asciilifeform: btc doesn't even make sense in the given picture.
asciilifeform: ever been to actual village? folks pay 'in materiel', with word of honour, etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-01-17 21:13 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it works by ben_vulpes, sultan of brunei, and king of saud, sending each other pgpgrams with signed chits of how many tonnes of plutonium each owes the other.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: understand, 'physical btc' is dumb because it makes promises that are physically impossible to keep. if you simply shove sheet of paper with privkey at someone, you at least have no illusions about possible pitfalls of doing it.
asciilifeform: whereas with 'physical coins' people imagine they have some sort of protections. which is poppycock.
thestringpuller: This I understand. Accounting of that sort cannot exist outside of strong WoT. Cuz scammers.
thestringpuller: I was just wondering in context of WoT, does it make sense then? or is it still braindamaged.
asciilifeform: the hologram, faux crypto, etc. are scamatronic in that they offer 0 pill against sc4mz0r, while being quite unnecessary when trading with trusted party.
mircea_popescu: the only question remains, how long ago was thestringpuller actually replaced with the markov device.
asciilifeform: it offers 0 advantage over sheet of paper. paper costs ~0 however, while 'magic coin' fattens worm.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when he drinks, i'd guess.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i need to be more descriptive. devil in details and all that.
asciilifeform: it is altogether unclear to me how 'more descriptive' would help. subj is a dead end.
asciilifeform: bitcoin is moved between holders by issuing a tx. attempting any other method, under the guise of 'transacting in bitcoin', is fraudulent of the sender, and idiotic of the receiver.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Details in my inquiries and thoughts. My inquiry was more along the lines of "offchain" accounting in physical world. Answer is: priv key on paper.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it also isn't clear to me why anyone would want to walk around with a paper privkey.
asciilifeform: even across the street.
asciilifeform: if you trust the counterparty, he pgp's you an addr and you pay to that.
asciilifeform: if you don't trust, then no deal.
asciilifeform: whereas walking with the paper is an invitation to everybody to knock you over the head and take the coin.
thestringpuller: so boil it down even more. write down who owes what after years of bar tab. send address, settle up.
thestringpuller: easy enough.
asciilifeform: the reason i even started this thread is that there is imho a 'sleep of reason breeding monsters' among folks who partake in 'physical coins' and similar.
asciilifeform: they go 'i'm gonna try to make a string of bits that tells me if someone copied it' and end up in same idiot spots as copyrasts making 'copy protection' etc.
thestringpuller: those same folks also want bigger blocks to pay for their coffee
asciilifeform: well no, not same ones, these think they can 'use bitcoin' without creating tx.
asciilifeform: but by instead passing papers/scratch'n'sniffs/magical usb thingies/etc. around.
thestringpuller: well there is a subset of folks who want bigger blocks for reasons you specified (for coffee), but still think physical btc is "good idea"
thestringpuller: you know the ones who hate "offchain solutions" for those very reasons of not creating on-chain transaction
a111: Logged on 2016-07-06 15:11 asciilifeform: when you transact with btc the way it was built to be transacted with, the problem does not exist.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: 'offchain transaction' is a harmless thing so long as it is not fraudulently presented as 'in bitcoin'.
asciilifeform: if i'm buying six antimatter bombs from thestringpuller, and nominally they cost 1000btc each but he realizes that he owed me 1000btc of iridium from asteroid, and we settle without creating btc tx, this is honest - but is not a btc transaction.
asciilifeform: so i owe him 5000, and we settle in potatoes, also without creating tx, etc.
ben_vulpes: yeah, fave
ben_vulpes: best part is the new jersyite "this is bad" refrain
ben_vulpes: second best part is how the princess ship just hauls ass out to sea
ben_vulpes: "see you in court, dipshits!"
asciilifeform: did they ever invent insurance in gypsylandia ?
ben_vulpes: who knows
asciilifeform: and what kind of marina can be leveled with '250,000$ in damage'
asciilifeform: missing a few zeroes ?
ben_vulpes: i don't know what you're looking at for those zeros
asciilifeform: 'The local port authority has reportedly launched an investigation into the incident, with local newspapers reporting as much as $250,000 in damages.'
ben_vulpes: ho that's an entirely different angle from what i saw
ben_vulpes: haw haw haw chaos and destruction
ben_vulpes: gcaptain delivers as always!
asciilifeform: what's that ?
ben_vulpes: crane draped over a container ship in progress
ben_vulpes: oh man and the video of containers toppling
ben_vulpes: typhoon, hanjin
ben_vulpes: the jit economy is in for a shock
mircea_popescu: o hey, skank gas. what a great name for a company.
mircea_popescu: apparently pickled herring does things.
mircea_popescu: oh by the way asciilifeform , TWO STROKE ship engine. because yes, when you have the space and need the efficiency, it beats 4stroke.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 2stroke diesel
mircea_popescu: nah, these days they're dual tanker fuel with gpl.
asciilifeform: it's still a diesel engine.
asciilifeform: y'know, the cycle. not (necessarily) the fuel.
mircea_popescu: that it may be ; but it's still a two stroke engine (total oil loss, for example)
asciilifeform: not necessarily.
asciilifeform: (total loss, that is)
asciilifeform: largely forced compromise in small petrol 2cycles
mircea_popescu: generally how the marine 2stroke works.
asciilifeform: and how would you mix oil into lng ?!
mircea_popescu: oil gets arbitrarily fine dust. hence the blue tinge of eg truck exhaust
asciilifeform: i see this blue every day, from the barbaric lawn machine engines etc.
mircea_popescu: anyway, /me was expecting this protest re "buy a tanker", but never heard it.
asciilifeform: because it is dumb in 1,001 other ways ?
asciilifeform: i didn't mention the cost of paint jobs and debarnacling etc. either.
asciilifeform: anyway mircea_popescu is mistaken: http://www.first-hand.info/image/fig(1.1-9).png << 2stroke diesel motor does not use the crankcase for compression.
asciilifeform: unlike the grass-cutter petrol 2stroke.
asciilifeform: it uses supercharger, because was built by sane folks.
asciilifeform: and there is ample room for it.
asciilifeform: of the 1,001 pitfalls of riding the tanker, the magic blue mist is apparently not one.
ben_vulpes: well reeeeallly you want a turbo for that volumetric efficiency
ben_vulpes: scavenge heat, don't suck power off the main shaft.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542439 << so i've done my own digging and asked a few others to dig as well, and i can't figure out what "the code" i'm supposed to have is. grepping for 'footnote' turns up zilch in my copy of mp-wp. throw me a bone here?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 18:01 mircea_popescu: you know you already have the code.
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2016/09/15/on-being-alpha-or-not-or-how-statistics-dont-apply-to-individual-cases/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - On being alpha, or not. Or how statistics don’t apply to individual cases.
trinque: Alpha or not, I’m not a stat. And that’s perhaps the most an individual can hope for. << aha. who the fuck cares? now leave me alone.
ben_vulpes: trinque am i beta
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/enlightened-self-interest-and-dishwashing-optimizations << CH - Enlightened Self Interest and Dishwashing Optimizations
ben_vulpes: the anxiety is crippling
trinque: masterbeta
diana_coman: for 1 sec I thought ben_vulpes actually *washes* the dishes ; as in using sponge+washing liquid, no dishwasher
ben_vulpes: while the garburator was tradeable, the dishwasher was not
phf: m'lady
asciilifeform: holy shit, ben_vulpes lived in a flat w/out a garburator even, much less dishwasher?!
asciilifeform: what else was missing...? indoor shitter?
ben_vulpes: previous flat had garburator and dishwasher
ben_vulpes: i have lived in true hovels without
ben_vulpes: when i packed 5 people into a rotting victorian proximate to the eng/art schools
phf misses morning cold of dacha outhouse
ben_vulpes: portland no es un pais pobre
ben_vulpes: the particularly annoying thing about this current house is that i don't see a clean way to install the garburator.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: why not ? sink is right on the floor, or wat
ben_vulpes: electricity
ben_vulpes: would have to spelunk in walls.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes doesn't own a fishing rod and line ?
phf: probably would have to run one of those stove/fridge lines
asciilifeform: how the hell do you wire anything without 'spelunk in walls' ?
ben_vulpes: could, don't really want to.
asciilifeform: it's why the americans made hollow walls to begin with! simple place to shove the wires.
phf: asciilifeform: walls and wiring is so janky, there's always something sticking out that you can hook too
phf: how else!
asciilifeform: well apparently ben_vulpes landed in a 'clean' one.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes if you're the sort of fella who buys houses and builds compartments for the dogs and sons and etc. (and you are), buy a fishing set, you won't regret.
asciilifeform: and a laparascope.
asciilifeform: or what do you call'em.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: probably unclear that i'm still renting.
asciilifeform: even so.
thestringpuller: garburator? is this in sink garbage disposal?
ben_vulpes: fun thing about this house, when i was rewiring the laundry room with sane 220 plugs, i threw the breaker for the laundry room and STILL ZAPPED MYSELF
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: lemme guess, crossed hot and neutral
ben_vulpes: just tingles off the housing actually
asciilifeform: no ground stake ?!
ben_vulpes: which shouldn't even be possible if the circuit were disconnected.
ben_vulpes: no, there is a ground stake. i personally caught tingles off the housing though.
asciilifeform: it is only possible if the ground - isn't
ben_vulpes: regardless of the grounding, there should have been no voltage on the thing if it were actually wired into the laundry room breaker
asciilifeform: i dun think i've ever set foot in an american house where the breaker labels had a strong link with reality
asciilifeform: the one i'm posting from now, even had labels that refer to rooms which no longer exist...
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: most contractors are idiots and don't know how to build a fucking house.
asciilifeform: (panel is older than the house in its current shape)
thestringpuller: when our hot water heater went out, we discovered the tank was 50 gallons too small for our house which is why we were always running out of hot water. I srsly doubt any contractor does satisfactory work in any "home improvement" tasks
thestringpuller: they must pay off regulators to pass it off as being "up to code" or something...
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: also wat >> 'drop garbage pickup from once per week to twice per week.'
ben_vulpes: boggling, isn't it
asciilifeform: ..month?
ben_vulpes: ah no, once every other week
ben_vulpes: shoot
ben_vulpes: yes. twice per month.
ben_vulpes: fixd ty
phf: correct method is to never trust anything your house says and connect tester/bulb before doing any electric.
phf: and i've been in the vulpes situation, where throwing a breaker would ~dim~ the bulb
phf: can also do traditional su master/apprentice trick of "can you hand me that wire"
phf: in fact, it's best to treat interactions with u.s. infrastructure as a trip to the zone from пикник на обочине (or stalker for en readers), where rules of physics don't apply, nothing is what it seems and you're not guaranteed to come back alive
asciilifeform: i still do it in thick rubber gloves, like grandfather did.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160915/#515 << apparently i didn't include plugins. http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/mp-plugins.tar.gz contains footnote and recent comment, which is all trilema uses ; and all i expect you'd ever sanely want, except if you're in that dubious spot where caching makes sense, but not on a deeper level in the stack you might want a caching plugin. altogether dubious, this, for technically apt peo
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-15: [20:30:04] <ben_vulpes> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542439 << so i've done my own digging and asked a few others to dig as well, and i can't figure out what "the code" i'm supposed to have is. grepping for 'footnote' turns up zilch in my copy of mp-wp. throw me a bone here?
mircea_popescu: phf shinohai and who else tracked it
mircea_popescu: an' thanks ben_vulpes for saying something.
ben_vulpes: oooh neato
ben_vulpes: ty mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: dun mention it.
shinohai: i din have no issues
shinohai: but ben did :/
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the authors are rather competent fellows, at least the footnote dude is still active etc, drop ~him~ a line.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: pet read your dishwashing treatise with great interest.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: nifty. any feedback to relay?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: comment was 'my algo is essentially same, and should look into the scraping tools'
mircea_popescu remembers the good old days when girls washed chemlab gear by hand. every day and every night.
ben_vulpes: ah i just realized that i forgot to include a solid three hundred word rant on the evils of nonstick in this context
shinohai: i was lucky my loot was still where i dropped
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: scraping tools are a+, and cost ~2.45 from where linked.
ben_vulpes: the chain mail is moderately more expensive but a /very/ effective replacement for such as steel wool.
ben_vulpes: ~never wears.
asciilifeform: in re: other household chores - ben_vulpes, phf, mircea_popescu - when restoring old lappy batteries, what's yer favourite way to cut through ultrasonic welds in the plastic ?
mircea_popescu: i just order more.
asciilifeform: that requires there being more somewhere.
mircea_popescu: i am proud to say i never to this day restored a battery ; and this includes the old days of communist romania, for both car batteries and the 4.5 volt zinc-manganese three-cell assembiles
mircea_popescu: (yeah people kitchen-restored both of those! people tried to run the dacias on toluene, you can't imagine how industrious socialists get.)
asciilifeform: who the fuck restores the latter
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kids.
asciilifeform: same folks who wash condoms ?
asciilifeform: i dunno what kind of kids mircea_popescu knew, but i only destroyed the 4.5v things, not restored.
mircea_popescu: (methods included "put on hot something for a while" and not much else.)
asciilifeform: ah that
asciilifeform: yeah in the last years there was a bit of 'i need a new flat bat' 'there's none'
asciilifeform: we ended up getting that adapter thing, that ate 3 of what today is called 'aa'
asciilifeform: also it was possible to charge (yes) these things, but they tended to catch on fire
mircea_popescu: now let's point out that the categorical differnce you apparently hallucinate midway through this single object ain't there.
asciilifeform: that it had 3 aa's in it? i know this.
asciilifeform: (though early versions, apparently, did not)
mircea_popescu: that who the fuck washes his condoms!
asciilifeform: and yes, henry viii washed his (one) condom.
mod6: heh
mircea_popescu: henry 8 washed nothing evne close to that general area, ever.
asciilifeform: eh i bet he at least emptied it.
asciilifeform: the sheepskin thing.
mircea_popescu: why would a king use condoms.
asciilifeform: syphilis
mircea_popescu: i'm not so up to date on anglotard pretenders. was this the one with a permanent abscess secondary to inguinal hernia that consequently smelled bad and disgusted some euro princess ?
asciilifeform: iirc him.
asciilifeform: that and the church schism.
asciilifeform: also enjoyed a good beheading.
mircea_popescu was reading pete d, ended up on "Knowing that on average humans have one testicle and one ovary, what are the odds that this human's left ovary is a testicle ?"
mircea_popescu: good god, how do i come up with this shit.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160915/#521 << hey, anxiety is sexy. IN WOMENZ.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-15: [21:39:10] <ben_vulpes> the anxiety is crippling
mircea_popescu: wtf is that ancient doorstop
asciilifeform: it's a 'gateway handbook'. i have one here.
asciilifeform: about size of a vhs tape.
asciilifeform: they have many uses. one is pictured.
mircea_popescu: very inept job. for the same money could have left the keyboard as a cover.
mircea_popescu: total hatched job. and wtf is with that junk everywhere.
mircea_popescu: this guy belongs washing dishes.
asciilifeform: anyway this is one of the few pc compats ever made that could run on 4 'aa'.
asciilifeform: and yes.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160915/#543 << in the sense that sane people place tubes and little boxes in the walls wtf.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-15: [22:10:50] <phf> asciilifeform: walls and wiring is so janky, there's always something sticking out that you can hook too
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> would have to spelunk in walls. << Nah do it right and bend some fucking conduit.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if he's in a typical american house, the conduit is solidly drywalled ~into~ the wall.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160915/#564 << which is why i love them. you sign contract, then you sign their faults report, w/e you call it. then they call you as if this is literally the first time this happened (because... it is) and try to pretend like they're geting paid. you explain that they are not getting dime one ; and that if they do not remedy like - right now, they are not getting sued because contractor comes with
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-15: [22:19:19] <thestringpuller> when our hot water heater went out, we discovered the tank was 50 gallons too small for our house which is why we were always running out of hot water. I srsly doubt any contractor does satisfactory work in any "home improvement" tasks
mircea_popescu: contract and contract comes with liquidated damages.
mircea_popescu: at which point they throw fit ; you hang up ; they finally pay someone to read contract ; come back all seethingly angry but trying to hide it and explain how inconvenient it is to them. you... amuse yourself with it as best you can.
mircea_popescu: usually they end up paying you so they get to maintain the social pretense of being contractors.
mircea_popescu: which is as it should be.
mircea_popescu loves children pretending to be adults.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you know, no cooking process is allowed to smoke. if there's smoke coming out she is doing something wrong. generally overheating the oil.
mircea_popescu: holy shit what ?! "compost buckets" ? are you fucking kidding me ?
mircea_popescu: here we sit wondering about "garburators", which i dun have, and dun particularly want ; meanwhile he sits around with roach nests deliberately placed in the house, something the soviets cca 1966 wouldn't have allowed.
mircea_popescu advises ben_vulpes to buy uv lamp + CTC supply and nightly hunt for eg salmonella in this set-up. like regular food plant.
mircea_popescu also never uses and doesn't like the machine dishwashers. they miss spots ; competent woman can do much better job much faster ; get her gloves, teach her how to etc.
ben_vulpes: nah, i moved out of portland to escape the countertop digester
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ^^
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: pan-searing steaks can make a bit of smoke
ben_vulpes: otherwise smoke not *really* a problem, just, can get cloudy.
mircea_popescu: aanyway. you should see the piles produced in a dirigible. we occasionally (in full formation, chef + sous chef + 2-3 helpers) manage to dirty every dish in the house.
mircea_popescu: that's hundreds of items.
mircea_popescu could run a restaurant and not even notice.
ben_vulpes: i should indeed see the * produced in dirigible
mircea_popescu: i dun think cake was ever made in less than 5kg installments for eg.
mircea_popescu: anyway ; i will propose that the large kitchen is a fundamental part in the happiness and sane social insertion of young women ; that even poor places in orcland implement it as more essential sociocultural component than, eg, men's mechanicizing garage ; that all effort should be directed at having one above all else.
mircea_popescu: there's a lot there.
mircea_popescu: this "monogamous relationship living in block of flats with 50 sqft kitchen" thing is nonsense in ways the victims don't even grasp.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: if he's in a typical american house, the conduit is solidly drywalled ~into~ the wall. << But he can run new conduit from box along the ceiling anchored to outside of wall
mircea_popescu: ahgahaha!
mircea_popescu: !~translate ru to en Пиздануться... - возразил Учитель Рапришнш-вутра.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Pizdanutsya ... - said the teacher Raprishnsh-vutra.
mircea_popescu: pizdanutsya is right.
BingoBoingo: When "residential" wiring standards fail needs best to add new wires to commercial standards and just learn to bend conduit.
mircea_popescu: bwahahaha
mircea_popescu: !~translate ru to en который шел по улице весело распевая песню: Хари Кришна, хари Рама, хари Смехопанорама!
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: who was walking along the street singing fun songs: Hari Krishna, Hari Ram, Hari Smehopanorama!
mircea_popescu: hare smenopanorama! this shit's epic.
mircea_popescu: thanks phf
mircea_popescu: o wait, it's an actual show ? aww.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542736 << it is a device that sits in sink trap and grinds down objects therein
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 23:37 mircea_popescu: here we sit wondering about "garburators", which i dun have, and dun particularly want ; meanwhile he sits around with roach nests deliberately placed in the house, something the soviets cca 1966 wouldn't have allowed.
asciilifeform: aka 'garbage disposal'
asciilifeform: one can get them even for toilets here.
asciilifeform: (now, as to ~why~ in the latter case, i do not know)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-15#1542749 << my current kitchen approaches size of my entire old flat
a111: Logged on 2016-09-15 23:59 mircea_popescu: anyway ; i will propose that the large kitchen is a fundamental part in the happiness and sane social insertion of young women ; that even poor places in orcland implement it as more essential sociocultural component than, eg, men's mechanicizing garage ; that all effort should be directed at having one above all else.
asciilifeform: and yes, it makes a diff.
asciilifeform: even with minimal crew, of 1...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gotta start having the young'uns over to learn how to cook and things.
asciilifeform: ... the who?
mircea_popescu: they have no young where you live ?
asciilifeform: none that i can tolerate the company of for >10min or so
mircea_popescu: and the reason for this being, evidently, that they didn't get kitchen-socialized in due time.
asciilifeform: (at least not above low ppm concentration)
asciilifeform: i've nfi why, maybe lead poisoning, or shitburgers, or wriggley chewing gum.
asciilifeform: or small kitchens.
mircea_popescu: small kitchens.
phf: i used to think hanging out in the kitchen is exclusively su thing (i know i know), but iranians do the same thing. and the pattern is exactly the same, everyone's drinking tea, and then somebody will just break out a skillet and make omelette or whatever, "of course for everyone in the room"
phf: current place has a decent sized kitchen, it's one of those arrangements where kitchen is part of living room, but it's almost comical how badly it's designed. nobody who's participated in the design of that kitchen has ever cooked anything in their entire lives.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (now, as to ~why~ in the latter case, i do not know) << Usually because people now "finish" basements in new construction placing a toilet below sewer line. Grinder is so turds can be pumped up to sewer line.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-16#1542754 << i was trying to translate dao-kakao and realized that it's impossible, since there's no equivalent of мат in english language. fuck, cunt, dick, grunt
a111: Logged on 2016-09-16 00:11 mircea_popescu: !~translate ru to en Пиздануться... - возразил Учитель Рапришнш-вутра.
shinohai: !!key diana_coman
shinohai: !!key pete_dushenski
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/09/autopilot-provider-dumps-elon-musk-tesla/ << Qntra - "Autopilot" Provider Dumps Elon Musk, Tesla
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