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Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

mircea_popescu: but leaving aside the entire "prediction market" thing, lemme try and find the actual coin discussion.
psztorc: What type of thing would change your mind?
mircea_popescu: " Television has a gift for simplifying and communicating ideas" << o lordy.
mircea_popescu: ok, indulge me. give me an example of an idea that was so communicated by television.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29811 @ 0.00076274 = 22.738 BTC [+]
psztorc: What follows that section are youtube videos to tv clips about prediction markets.
mircea_popescu: so... uh...
mircea_popescu: "i once got formed an idea while in front of the tv ergo tv has a gift" ?
psztorc: That sentence is not a claim that I make.
mircea_popescu: ah intrade there we go.
psztorc: It is in the pdf formatting that I am continuing my explanation of prediction markets in a different way.
mircea_popescu: "Bitcoin is P2P software. It was not ever designed for other people to store your money; it was designed for you to store your own money." << can you prove this ?
mircea_popescu: or at least shore it up past the nude declaratory thing ?
psztorc: You disagree with that?
BingoBoingo declares bread tripe, retires
mircea_popescu: yes.
psztorc: What exactly do you disagree with?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.00076181 = 18.5882 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: o, you want the list ? mkay.
mircea_popescu: i disagree with the notion that whether bitcoin was designed for people to hold own money or opm follows from bitcoin being p2p ; that there is a way to differentiate between opm and yom. and other things
psztorc: You can't tell the difference between money you own and money that other people own?
mircea_popescu: there's nothing magical about money being "your own". the situation where you own house A, and live in house B which is identical but you rent ; and the situation where you own house A and live in house A is imaginary.
mircea_popescu: im sorry. the DIFFERENCE between the two situations is imaginary is what i mean.
BingoBoingo: Pro Idiotas!
psztorc: Replace "own" with "control" if you like.
mircea_popescu: and thje best example to verify this is, a situation where you and another guy sit in a bar for the space it takes to drink two drafts each.
mircea_popescu: whether each pays his own each time in silence, or you buy one round and he buys another round is nil.
mircea_popescu: this is why money is important, this annullment of a perceived difference.
psztorc: What I wrote has nothing to do with fungibility.
mircea_popescu: as the saying goes around here, you might not be interested in fungibility, but that doesn't prevent it from being interested in you.
psztorc: Again, I am interested in fungibility.
psztorc: But I didn't write about it in that paper.
mircea_popescu: "The Bitcoin businesses that oppose this intent by holding customer funds (for example the currency exchanges) lose those funds regularly." << except mpex never did. and bitbet never did. and so on.
mircea_popescu: together these make up a good 90% of bitcoin busiensses.
mircea_popescu: now, feel free to generalize on the remainder 10%, but it is not unlike saying "men are evil and should be locked up".
mircea_popescu: also an intellectual fashion in some circles.
psztorc: Really?
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: "Although businesses can prove their solvency, proof of future-solvency is impossible, and even solvent Bitcoin PM-businesses would be able to steal funds by trading on and then reporting incorrect prediction outcomes." << this is a feckless misstatement of the situation. a centralized business is predicated on the trustworthyness of its living owner. whose word is, to repurpose a JPM quote, "worth more than all the bo
mircea_popescu: nds in Christendom".
mircea_popescu: (do you happen to be familiar with the exchange i'm referencing there ?)
psztorc: I know that you own and operate MPEX
mircea_popescu: no i meant the jpm quote.
psztorc: and of course I'm familiar with BitBet
psztorc: I'm familiar with some of JPM's history
psztorc: How do you square your 90% figure against MtGox's loss of 850,000 Bitcoins.
mircea_popescu: the proposition that mtgox was a bitcoin business is tenuous.
psztorc: My understanding was that MPEX's volume was much lower than that, let alone total stored.
mircea_popescu: you don't think walmart is a tide business for instance, do you ?
psztorc: No.
psztorc: But I think that all Bitcoin exchanges are Bitcoin businesses.
mircea_popescu: moreover, mtgox mostly "lost" money it never had.
mircea_popescu: on the basis of what ?
psztorc: It is a question of definition...I chose to define it that way.
psztorc: What definition do you use?
mircea_popescu: well, for starters, they priced bitcoin in dollars not dollars in bitcoin.
psztorc: And BitPay claims to process over 100,000 Bitcoin per month
mircea_popescu: these claims must be novel. ever since they forgot to mention how shockingly little they processed for "black friday"
psztorc: that's a lot more than MPEX's volume
mircea_popescu: but no, the various hanger ons trying to insinuate themselves in bitcoin do not by this desire actually become part of the thing.
psztorc: And your definition is?
mircea_popescu: anyway : consider that when mp said mtgox goes away, mtgox actually went away.
mircea_popescu: much to the disbelief of the entire collected "foundation" & assorted jesuses, captains of industry and whatnots.
mircea_popescu: the closest i ever came to stating a definition was in this 2012 article :
assbot: The politics of Bitcoin on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: !up psztorc
mircea_popescu: anyway, the jpm thing is more important, so let's get back to that for a second. the matter was put to him, in a congressional hearing, "Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?"
psztorc: I'm afraid I couldn't find the definition.
mircea_popescu: and the responses came rather informatively :
mircea_popescu: "No sir, the first thing is character."
mircea_popescu: "Before money or property?"
mircea_popescu: "Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it...Because a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom."
mircea_popescu: there is in fact no way to substitute for this.
mircea_popescu: the notion that "proving" "solvency" which is to say, having money may somehow buy character, and on it trust.
mircea_popescu: this is delusional.
psztorc: Of course, as I'm sure you know, "credit" comes from the latin "cred-" for "belief/faith"
mircea_popescu: the only thing "proofs" will do is make people optimize for the exam. that is all.
mircea_popescu: aha.
psztorc: And the sentence I wrote was to explain exactly why "proofs of solvency" are insufficient (which you have just restated)
mircea_popescu: alright.
mircea_popescu: "Although Bitcoin does not solve our PM problems, it demonstrates that a blockchain can provide scalable, censorship-resistant, and trustless solutions. Blockchain solutions also generate efficiency by cutting out middlemen and avoiding overhead costs (no brick-and-mortar, compliance, administration, etc.)." << this is miserable. what exactly is "solutions" supposed to mean ? and more importantly : the blockchain settl
mircea_popescu: ement device is BY FAR the most expensive, cumbersome and unwieldy mechanism for settlement ever devised. it was not even feasible to contemplate before computing and major bandwidth was available.
mircea_popescu: the entire "bitcoin is efficient" thing is very 2010s naivete. it is anything but.
mircea_popescu: it's ironclad, sure. but a tank has not very good fuel economy.
psztorc: For a given level of security, the payments are now cheaper.
psztorc: Also, I'm sure you've heard of the Lightning Network.
mircea_popescu: ok, sure, for a given level, as long as that level is very high, they are in fact cheaper.
mircea_popescu: this is not what usually is meant by eficiency.
psztorc: Well we have to compare apples to apples don't we?
mircea_popescu: best specify what apples we're comparing.
mircea_popescu: anyway.
psztorc: Hey, when you wanted to read Satoshi's pdf whitepaper, did you like ask a friend to print it out for you or something?
mircea_popescu: "My design was able to solve a few other PM-problems as well. Any user can create a market about anything, removing the dual-requirement that a PM-administrator must not only be trustworthy, but also share your prediction-interests. Market scoring rule technology ensures that trading volume is irrelevant, and traders will always be able make a trade updating the price to their estimation (even if they are the only trad
mircea_popescu: er)." << dja understand the concept of liquidity ?
mircea_popescu: because if i want to sink your chances, understand, all i need is to quote this and snicker.
mircea_popescu: suppose you're in a VC office trying to close a deal. and i drop by to take the guy out to golf.
mircea_popescu: and you're like, almost there, and all i do is recite that and laugh. you're out on your ass.
mircea_popescu: dja understand this ?
psztorc: No
mircea_popescu: ok. what is liquidity ?
psztorc: Loss of common knowledge of an asset's valuation.
psztorc: Gain/loss*
mircea_popescu: uhm. what ungodly sort of post structuralist lacanian approach to finance is this supposed to be!
mircea_popescu: fiat, delta knowledge on valuation. i doubtr you'll find anyone who even will entertain the approach, within finance. but moving on :
mircea_popescu: whence in the everloving fuck will you summon into existence counters for all the solo traders trading with no one ?
psztorc: That isn't post structuralism... PS is when the audience is supposedly more important than the author's text or intent.
psztorc: This has nothing to do with that.
mircea_popescu: lol
psztorc: I could link to a pdf on market scoring rules
psztorc: or an Excel spreadsheet
psztorc: but I'm guessing.....
mircea_popescu: or you could keep it simple, and explain why your excel spreadsheet isn't hard at work finding boyfriends for all the very fat lonely feminists out there.
mircea_popescu: they too got a knowledge, why isn't it being met ?
psztorc: MSRs are a formula which relate [1] the current quantity of outstanding shares (of mutually-exclusive states) to [2] an account filled with money.
mircea_popescu: by whom ?
psztorc: The traders, although you can put some money in the middle (which you'll lose) to create...
psztorc: ..
psztorc: your favorite word
psztorc: liquidity.
psztorc: The derivative of [1] share quantity happens to be the prices.
asciilifeform: i'd like to ask psztorc for a monopole magnet
psztorc: People propose updates to the share quantity, and can locally calculate how the account [2] would have to change.
asciilifeform: to be made after he is done with the counter-less market of solo traders.
asciilifeform: i could really use a monopole.
psztorc: If they pay the right amount, the trade goes through, otherwise it does not.
psztorc: Again this isn't something I made up, a physicist designed it like 15 years ago and it is currently being used in a few places. With play money at SciCast.
mircea_popescu: i'm kinda puzzled why the problem is not directly obvious.
mircea_popescu: psztorc let's try a mental experiment shall we ?
psztorc: I love experiments.
mircea_popescu: i mean srsly nobody cares if you came up with it or clark gable did. that's not at issue. and in general "original research" is even a topic only among the wikitards. it's not a legitimate consideration.
mircea_popescu: but as to the experiment : suppose your coin exists. suppose it has a total issued volume of 1mn coins. suppose i own them all, because i'm an asshole and i buy them all.
psztorc: A given claim is more likely to be false if only one person has assessed it.
mircea_popescu: this is false.
mircea_popescu: now, suppose i make a bet that tomorrow will be a solar eclipse.
mircea_popescu: the odds on this are dismal.
mircea_popescu: whence will the money come to liquidate my position ?
mircea_popescu: for instance : when i put 1 btc on the theory that ethereum dies by the end of the year, i got liquidated 5:1 within hours.
psztorc: From you, you'll win all of your own money back.
mircea_popescu: uh... i am not putting any money on No.
mircea_popescu: i bet all the coins on yes.
psztorc: If you really own all the coins, and you didn't put any in the middle, your first share of Yes will cost you 1.
psztorc: As will your 2nd and all the rest.
mircea_popescu: i really don't care what they cost. i am taking them all.
mircea_popescu: and i expect to see fair liquidity. say 10k to 1 against me.
mircea_popescu: where will ten billion coins spring for to liquidate my position ?
psztorc: You bought 1 mn coins.
mircea_popescu: aha.
psztorc: You traded 1 mn coins for 1 mn shares
mircea_popescu: aha.
psztorc: the answer was "Yes"
mircea_popescu: how the fuck would it be yes ?
psztorc: the 1 mn shares became worth 1 mn coins again.
mircea_popescu: there's not gonna be any sort of solar eclipse tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: the answer will be no.
psztorc: Well then you lose all of your coins...
mircea_popescu: to whom ?
psztorc: In that astonishingly unlikely scenario, no one.
mircea_popescu: did "no one" bet 10 bn coins on no ?
psztorc: They're just inaccessible.
psztorc: You're the only one who did anything.
mircea_popescu: so your liquidity has a problem in simply materializing from the, if you'll excuse the pun, the ether ?
mircea_popescu: understand, the scenario is in no sense astonishing or at all unlikely. the scenario repeats itself 100% of the time in your model, just, you're not usually well instrumented to notice this.
mircea_popescu: unlike in my example, where i scrubbed off all incidentals that may hide the matter.
psztorc: What exactly is your question?
asciilifeform observes that 'bugs' like this (if gaping hole in the chest of an idea can still be referred to as a 'bug'...) can live almost indefinitely long when there is a 'play money only' system such as ones mentioned earlier. simply because the 'unreasonable!11!!!11!!' folk with serious dough don't show up to clean their clocks.
mircea_popescu: this is not a question, it is a statement of fact. counterintuitively, perhaps (not sure why, but this only happens to some people), your addition of a coin to the problem has in fact worsened your efficiency, by introducing a significant friction factor.
mircea_popescu: all this in an attempt to solve poorly an already solved problem (solved by centralization).
mircea_popescu: ie, your attempt to get fatties laid already suffers from the "wide area low height" problem. putting a coin on top of this is just crushing it into oblivion, and going exactly tyhe opposite directionm of solving it.
psztorc: : )
psztorc: And yet, you change the subject so frequently.
psztorc: Do you believe that MSRs have a liquidity problem?
mircea_popescu: ie mortgage servicing rights ?
psztorc: Haha
psztorc: Market scoring rules, which we were just discussing.
psztorc: Feel free to use your fast knowledge to evade more questions : )
mircea_popescu: you know, the abbreviation happens to already have a meaning, in the space.
mircea_popescu: im not entirely sure what "market scoring rules" are. but by the excel reference i vaguely expect a bayesian atrocity.
psztorc: There are Bayesian versions
mircea_popescu: unsurprisingly.
mircea_popescu: understand : rules are generally powerless. the soviets had rules about how capital should be allocated.
mircea_popescu: didn't help them, especially once they didn't have the capital.
mircea_popescu: !up psztorc
psztorc: Almost as predictable as your question dodging.
mircea_popescu: how about you get registered in assbot so i can give you a rating so i don't have to keep doing the upping.
psztorc: I thought I had, like a year ago. Does it expire or something?
pete_dushenski: << turns out that i was off the mark here. to wit : "Emissions system and fuel economy testing is conducted while a vehicle is placed on a dynamometer—think of it as a two big rollers or a treadmill—rather than driving on the road. The vehicle has only its driving wheels rolling (the front ones, in the case of VW vehicles). But the rear tires are station
assbot: Logged on 18-09-2015 18:54:21; pete_dushenski: either a) when anything plugs into the obd-ii port, or b) the whole thing is a parallel construction to keep ze germans at bay against tbtf 'domestics'
pete_dushenski: ary. The vehicle could otherwise interpret the test procedure as a dangerous situation or malfunction, activating traction control or stability control. By enabling a test mode, the vehicle will be able to operate during the test process. Once the test is complete and the car is restarted, the car reverts to its normal function. And once the cars are in on-the-road mode, nitrogen oxide levels increased by 10 to
pete_dushenski: 40 times the federal standard, according to the EPA."
mircea_popescu: well what do you want me to do. they don't, per se, have a liquidity problem, not being the sort of thing that may have a liquidityy problem. they simply have no relation to liquidity whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: !gettrust psztorc
assbot: psztorc is not registered in WoT.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't expire and it doesn't think you ever did.
pete_dushenski: ;;gettrust psztorc
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user pete_dushenski to user psztorc: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: never
psztorc: Well I tried to do it when I discovered your blog, which was like last autumn.
mircea_popescu: << see ethere it's a half minute's job.
assbot: first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00076274 = 16.6277 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: if (steering_shaft_turned_since_start()){while(1){pollute();}}
psztorc: !register F162C410
assbot: That does not seem to be a valid fingerprint.
mircea_popescu: full size.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: if (rear_wheels_stationary_while_front_wheels_in_motion()){while(1){pollute();}}
psztorc: !register 16C81597E76E86E6C01EF037AA4B3330F162C410
assbot: Searching for key with fingerprint: 16C81597E76E86E6C01EF037AA4B3330F162C410. This may take a few moments.
assbot: Key F162C410 / "Paul Sztorc (Truthcoin) <>" successfully imported.
assbot: Registration successful.
mircea_popescu: !rate psztorc 1 Has no idea what post-structuralism is. Just like everyone else.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.psztorc.1:d864f2f84f1203a928a97576d8edb2bc1231e49eb6b35d20b368ed1070206df2
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for psztorc with note: Has no idea what post-structuralism is. Just like everyone else.
pete_dushenski: << hehe.
assbot: Logged on 03-05-2014 17:28:03; bitcoinpete: <<goodness gracious
asciilifeform: 'Reputable: Truthcoin was designed by a Yale Statistician with degrees in the blockchain-relevant fields of econ, psychology, and mathematics, who has been passionate about prediction markets since long before Bitcoin was created. Truthcoin was reviewed (favorably) by Andrew Poelstra, sidechains-co-author and skeptical author of widely-circulated technical papers on cryptosystem stability. Gregory Maxwell has been aware of the
asciilifeform: project for months, Peter Todd is actively reviewing it. Unlike 100% of all Bitcoin 2.0 projects, there have (so far) been no standing complaints from these elite-skeptics. Roger Ver, who has famously invested-in and donated-to some of the most promising organizations and experiments in the Bitcoin space (from original Ripple, to BitPay, to, and ignored many others, has endorsed this project financially.'
mircea_popescu: why this habit of no names btw ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47018 @ 0.00076274 = 35.8625 BTC [+] {2}
psztorc: I should edit that because PT did finish reviewing it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2732 @ 0.00076287 = 2.0842 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: '...when you [1] watch journalists lie on television, [2] have to deal with obviously dishonest politicians rising through an obviously-dysfunctional "democratic" process, [3] get beaten down by office politics at work, or [4] participate in any serious argument with anyone. The fiber optic cable of the 90's gave the global community a "nervous system", called the internet, but despite advances in filesharing ("memory"), and s
asciilifeform: earch / auto-complete ("pre-processing"), we don't yet have a "central" nervous system to advise our decisions...'
asciilifeform: for fuck's sake.
mircea_popescu: << the bloomberg piece is mildly amusing.
assbot: These Two Projects Are Racing to Bring Election Gambling Back for 2016 - Bloomberg Business ... ( )
psztorc: Yeah, I couldn't convince that guy that markets aren't gambling.
mircea_popescu: anyway. so what's the deal with the augur thing ?
pete_dushenski: psztorc: then what's gambling ?
mircea_popescu: of which i mostly know because some derps on reddit kept being butthurt at bitbet existing or somesuch.
psztorc: Stole from me and in the process of being poisoned.
psztorc: pete_dushenski: markets have prices which vary, producing useful info. gambling prices do not vary / static uselessness
mircea_popescu: "stole". you're an idea guy, correct ? how can you be stolen from ?
mircea_popescu: wait. wut ?! you ever watched a game of poker ?
mircea_popescu: of course the pot value varies.
psztorc: I don't consider poker gambling, personally.
pete_dushenski: mebbe psztorc is american and is used to 'betting lines' ?
psztorc: Too much skill.
mircea_popescu: ah. do you specifically mean the line betting scam ?
assbot: truthcoin/truthcoin-cpp · GitHub ... ( )
mircea_popescu: THAT's not betting. it's just like college ponzi, a scamatron.
mircea_popescu: "For millennia, there was suffering and misery. Can you imagine a world without music, or eyeglasses, or DayQuil?" << wut is dayquil ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: acetaminophen
asciilifeform: (curious choice)
pete_dushenski: psztorc: btw, even 'lines' change y'know. so... not static. so... time for a new definition !
mircea_popescu: and yes, /me grew up in a world without glasses. or divorce.
pete_dushenski: or maple syrup
pete_dushenski has no point here.
pete_dushenski: << this, pointedly and as far as the eye can see, does NOT happen to be true.
assbot: Logged on 22-09-2015 13:57:38; mircea_popescu: (which happens to be true, architects know a lot about how buildings may be, and for this reason nothing about buildings that are)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20750 @ 0.00076287 = 15.8296 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: what, like architects only design new buildings ex nihilo on greenfield sites ?
pete_dushenski: in alberta, sure, this is often the case, but this is the overwhelming exception
asciilifeform: << atrocity, linked from earlier atrocity. apparently there is no shortage of attempted schemes to build this perpetuum mobile, the 'decentralized fact verifier machine'
assbot: Reality Keys - Facts about the future, cryptographic proof when they come true ... ( )
pete_dushenski: architecture is as far more about existing buildings, topographies, and spaces as 'the new stuff'
pete_dushenski: *is far more
pete_dushenski: this is not only about renovations either
pete_dushenski: which is certainly a large chunk of the industry.
pete_dushenski: ultimately, architecture takes place in and around other architecture
pete_dushenski: it doesn't happen in a vacuum
pete_dushenski: 'modernisations', 'reskinning', and other forms of revamping that rely on the existing bones of a building are what keep cities alive and allow neighbourhoods to go through multiple phases of waxing and waning
pete_dushenski: without understanding the way buildings are, there's really no architecture.
pete_dushenski: sure, if you're fresh out of school, you know dick all, which is quite specifically why architects aren't 'licensed' until damn near a decade of practice
pete_dushenski: and even after that they're unlikely to lead a project
psztorc: Well, this has been fun but it is getting to be past my bedtime.
psztorc: I'll probably be back.
psztorc: Au revoir.
pete_dushenski: it's an old, hierarchical industry. architecture moves incredibly slowly. and quite rightly so as its products ~have~ to last decades, if not centuries.
pete_dushenski: psztorc: bon soir
pete_dushenski: << hey cazalla, you a nutella fan ?
assbot: Nutella should not let Australians personalise their own jars ... ( )
pete_dushenski: << isn't this what hondajet is/was/will be for ?
assbot: Logged on 22-09-2015 23:59:19; asciilifeform: << omg1111111111 i can't afford 'boeing' !! where is my NEED-BASED AID !??!!
pete_dushenski: !s hondajet
assbot: 0 results for 'hondajet' :
cazalla: pete_dushenski, nope but that is lulzy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93100 @ 0.00076311 = 71.0455 BTC [+] {5}
cazalla: totally to be expected as well, which is probably why they did it to begin with
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski> and even after that they're unlikely to lead a project << maybe we'll allow your argument re civilised places. but in the us specifically, none of the stuff you discuss ever happens.
pete_dushenski: crazy.
pete_dushenski: who knew that canada was the cultural mecca of the americas ?
pete_dushenski: the apotheosis, if you will ;P
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell psztorc "BetsOfBitcoin Also old, yet closed Mysteriously. Funds stolen or missing. " << nothing mysterious about it. back in 2012 inaba was pushing the bfl scam, had a deal with the various "bet site operators" to allow bets on bfl delivery and then anull if it doesn't deliver. betsofbitcoin went for it, got called out for it, was dead after that.
assbot: BitBet - BFL will deliver ASIC devices before March 1st :: 791.29 B (47%) on Yes, 898.53 B (53%) on No | closed 2 years 7 months ago ... ( )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: e-march-1st/ << bitbet's version, which cost bfl close to 1k btc, and which resulted in and which in turn resulted in a lot of clearing the air for legitimate operators in the space, and which is to some degree why asics even exist today as a private thing rather than coming a couple years later as a usg only thing.
assbot: The positive market effects of the delivery bet. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: and the "MtGox-failure, a failure that itself resulted in the loss of 6% of the circulating Bitcoin money supply." verbiage is particularly ill advised. the bitcoin mtgox lost never circulated for the most part, in that they were imaginary.
mircea_popescu: similarly, all sorts of derps on "bitfinex" and assorted scum are currently booking imaginary bitcoins they "will get in the future". except they don't, but their losses aren't of bitcoin, they're losses of "bitcoin",
pete_dushenski: << irlol!
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 04:32:30; psztorc: Loss of common knowledge of an asset's valuation.
mircea_popescu: ironically that can actually stand.
pete_dushenski: as a definition of liquidity ?!
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: << the treatment of "how to increase fictitious '''optionality''' through factual restrictions" is particularly scandalous.
assbot: Oracles are the Real Smart Contracts | Truthcoin: Making Cheap Talk Expensive ... ( )
mircea_popescu: what if we don't fucking want to buy bullshit lucas crap at any price, and what if we would gladly pay for that crap to not even have the possibiklity to exist ?
mircea_popescu: what of all good films that never happened because that shit existed, and who pays for the damage britney spears did to music ?
mircea_popescu: fuck "total optionality" in the sense of, strip mall.
mircea_popescu: what if hollywood never existed altogether and i wouldn't have to explain to sane people from the future why the fuck exactly is it that every woman in every film has a permanently affixed bedspread righ above her tits for some reason ?
mircea_popescu: optionalitits my ass.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: as to liquidity, hot damn if i don't see it now. only 6 hours into this yom kippur fast and i'm always too slow.
mircea_popescu: lol
pete_dushenski sends himself to a hungry slumber
mircea_popescu: anyway, the amusing thing if one actually reads the above linked thing is that the proponent of truthcoin objects that ethereum bets won't work because they're not bitbet. which is a correct point, but leaves him in the lurch.
mircea_popescu: "Ultimately, as Bitcoin takes over the internet, all non-Bitcoin projects (of any kind) will be treated with the ridicule afforded a US resident who tries to pay for his milk with Japanese yen. Eventually, interest in using a non-Bitcoin will fall to zero. Altcoins, even somehow-useful ones, don’t have a future." << and the proper link for this is, of course,
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: s-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/
mircea_popescu: more respek for actual experiments and their results.
mircea_popescu: "Getting the Good Authority In the old days, competition kept Authorities in line. For example, in The Merchant of Venice, Shylock is trying to get a contract enforced by an Authority:" << heh, look at that.
mircea_popescu: mkay, /me has had enough of this poorly sourcing of material. srsly, buncha quotes to tardipedia ? none to actual source material ? mmmkay.
mircea_popescu: << check it out asciilifeform :D
mircea_popescu: mwahahaha.
mircea_popescu: in other news, yet another one of these :
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48200 @ 0.00076332 = 36.792 BTC [+] {4}
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 24.66420430 BTC on 'No' - The ETH scam won't see 2016 -
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63671 @ 0.00075896 = 48.3237 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71854 @ 0.00075657 = 54.3626 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00075673 = 17.4805 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77900 @ 0.00076466 = 59.567 BTC [+] {7}
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 3.03225764 BTC on 'No' - The ETH scam won't see 2016 -
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 13.12260000 BTC on 'No' - BTC to top $700 before November -
shinohai: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 230.45, Best ask: 230.59, Bid-ask spread: 0.14000, Last trade: 230.4, 24 hour volume: 13586.41889803, 24 hour low: 225.9, 24 hour high: 233.95, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48700 @ 0.00076312 = 37.1639 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163900 @ 0.00075521 = 123.7789 BTC [-] {4}
cazalla: BingoBoingo, maybe aussie defence helped kick off the revival of ISIS gold coins
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28896 @ 0.00075328 = 21.7668 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 214669 @ 0.00076097 = 163.3567 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20593 @ 0.00076428 = 15.7388 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00075915 = 7.3638 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33550 @ 0.00075277 = 25.2554 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.000751 = 31.7673 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40500 @ 0.00075397 = 30.5358 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3708 @ 0.00075915 = 2.8149 BTC [+]
assbot: All the &apos;Happy Birthday&apos; song copyright claims are invalid, federal judge rules - LA Times ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46700 @ 0.00075915 = 35.4523 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32753 @ 0.00075915 = 24.8644 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: << hm, is it me or the no side is kinda getting spent ? originally it was very chipper at 5:1, but running out of steam at 2.x :1 by now
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 06:54:44; deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 24.66420430 BTC on 'No' - The ETH scam won't see 2016 -
phf: << mandelbrot in postscript, apropos code vs. serialised formats
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: Yet another pre-installed spyware app discovered on Lenovo computers / Boing Boing ... ( )
mircea_popescu: o hey shinohai, how goes the hunt ?
shinohai: Still the same, casting a lot but no bites :/
mircea_popescu: you ever saw the stripper lulz btw ?
shinohai: stripper lulz?
mircea_popescu: one sec lemme dig it up
shinohai: kk
assbot: Bitcoin Giveaway [Archive] - Stripper Web Exotic Dancer Community ... ( )
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - BTC to top $700 before November -
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129600 @ 0.00076497 = 99.1401 BTC [+] {7}
shinohai: "Who knew giving away stuff to strippers is going to turn into some sort of criminal case, seriously now." <<< Love hanbot
punkman: was just looking at poloniex. you could sell ~300k eth to hit 0.1 now (and you'd take home ~1100 btc)
punkman: err 0.0001
shinohai: I've never seen strippers turn down *free fucking money* mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: so now you have.
shinohai: 1 whole BTC yet, thats pretty generous
mircea_popescu: the fuckiung internet. it breeds stupid and lazy.
mircea_popescu: goes to funkenstein's attempt with that guy yest.
mircea_popescu: it would seem the "popular mechanics" interpretation of the internet in the common mind (which is what everyone no matter how brilliant in selected fields reverts to anwyay, in a process we call "the memory hole effect") is something like "the internet is an implementation of god - and a god that cares at that".
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 10.94821216 BTC on 'No' - BTC to top $700 before November -
shinohai: Think what could have happened for a few of them with just a little research. Mighta found a way to invest said bitcoin into many times that by now :/
mircea_popescu: yeah, into p2p lending.
shinohai: p2p lending kek
shinohai: I'd put it in coinbr, but I didn't know of this place in 2013
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00075353 = 22.3798 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: I am seeing a correlation here though. You are practically giving away btc to artists that are doing it anyway, but most are too lazy to open a webchat and come to irc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu will love this one:
assbot: Coffee shop owners face backlash after “pick-up artist” podcast exposed | Ars Technica ... ( )
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: << what am i looking at ?
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 06:09:33; mircea_popescu: << check it out asciilifeform :D
mircea_popescu: peter murck wanna "kill the drama"
shinohai: I commented on that tweet kek
asciilifeform: this is a what, a gavin ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one of the people killed in my recent drawing.
asciilifeform: ah
mircea_popescu: because you know, bitcoin is not backed by lulz and drama anymoar. it's backed by inept pencildicks in pretendsuits.
asciilifeform: i confess i must have slept through whatever this was.
mircea_popescu: anyway. it just amused me as a case of "bug shaped man confused that the future doesn't seem to belong to him."
asciilifeform: it is very easy to be confused when flying in own jet while opponents starve
mircea_popescu: yes, were that to be the case it would easy to be confused.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile,
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 00:19:51; mircea_popescu: << so it begins.
BingoBoingo: ./bitcoin-qt
asciilifeform: eh,
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 01:36:58; asciilifeform: also usg giveth, usg taketh away. a 'pharma ceo' has so much as one cent purely by the good graces of hitler - who helpfully keeps penny-a-pill indian generics mostly out of u.s. market
mircea_popescu: "own jet" baby. you said.
mircea_popescu: it's not my fault i end up repeating myself.
asciilifeform possibly sees where mircea_popescu is going with this
mircea_popescu: i'm staying right here!
asciilifeform: point.
asciilifeform: from same rag,
assbot: Serious Imgur bug exploited to execute worm-like attack on 8chan users | Ars Technica ... ( )
mircea_popescu: and this is not (one of the) tor deanonymization tricks.
mircea_popescu: ie, mandated hole in img hoster.
asciilifeform: possibly the oldest
shinohai: Shalom pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: guten morgen
shinohai: <<< yellowfever.jpg
assbot: ... ( )
pete_dushenski: << huh
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 13:54:22; punkman: was just looking at poloniex. you could sell ~300k eth to hit 0.1 now (and you'd take home ~1100 btc)
pete_dushenski: ;;calc 300000/2000
gribble: 150
mircea_popescu: some top keks.
assbot: Gentoo Forums :: View topic - Enslave gnome-pty-helper ... ( )
deedbot-: [Trilema] The strange case of the six hundred dollars and other stories. -
pete_dushenski: so anyone crazy enough to have plunked down 150 btc on ethereum's pre-sale would take home ~1`100 btc + whatever chunk of the bitbet they so desired before closing it out
asciilifeform: 'turns out xfce4's terminal app depends on it. it's getting pretty tough to keep a gnome/kde free system. maybe i should give in to the evil' << l0l
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ^
punkman: pete_dushenski: seems like there's at least 30 "accounts" with more than 300k eth
assbot: Accounts - - The ethereum blockchain explorer ... ( )
mircea_popescu: punkman so i guess now we find out that "those were fictive" ^H^H^H^H^H^H ppls really believe in teh technologee.
asciilifeform: where the hell do they get this 'tough to keep a gnome/kde free system'
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: punkman fictive and/or ostriches
mircea_popescu: aha.
jurov: asciilifeform: many apps pull gnome/kde libs
pete_dushenski: or better yet, 'civil gentlemen who don't do things like betting'
pete_dushenski: 'because gambling is uncouth and only done with vegas bookies using their scammy lines'
asciilifeform: jurov: well, if we count gtk, then - virtually everything
mircea_popescu: yeah, they're into this for the money, except they only want to make money by going long. shorts are bad mkay.
asciilifeform: if we don't - can't think of anything i have on my boxes that would
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: this'll sound strange, but shorts are 'pessimistic' and even 'cynical' in the eyes of the large-foreheaded
jurov: asciilifeform: i meant these cases where the libraries spawn processes on their own
mircea_popescu: right because there's a fundamental difference between equations that come out positive and equations that come out negative.
mircea_popescu: like 1/x -4 is entirely a different thing from 1/x +4.
mircea_popescu: this is what they teach in math school now.
shinohai: Top minds of #bitcoin-assets: Is or is not Pope Francis a socialist?
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu yeah should prolly bump the initial bet to .1 instead
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla the problem i see is this : forcing bets removes their signalling capacity. if i increase the minimum i just remove meaning from money.
kakobrekla: how is it more forcing than now?
mircea_popescu: now it's just 0.01, which means we suck the meaning out of a cent. if minimum becomes 0.1, we suck the meaning out of ten cents. which may be too much,
mircea_popescu: basically this might be one of those situations where regulation is a loser.
mircea_popescu: might be why the "2 btc minimum on sports bets" thing introduced last year nigh on killed sports. that may need to be taken off.
mircea_popescu: but basically... it never occured to me that in point of fact bitbet's minimum acts as a tax. and a lot of other things in here never occured to me. i'm still reeling over the whole pile.
mircea_popescu: anyway, im taking the local devs out for a breakfast hackathon. bbl.
shinohai: <<< priceless
assbot: Accessories for the 21 BUTTBOARD now available. : Buttcoin ... ( )
punkman: Ver asking Shrem for prison tips
assbot: eBay phishing sites hosted by… eBay | Netcraft ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38050 @ 0.00076877 = 29.2517 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: shinohai:
assbot: Pope is an anticapitalism socialist — thank God - Paul B. Farrell - MarketWatch ... ( )
shinohai: Thanks jurov. Seems today he is with the democratic socialists.
lobbes: you also gotta love how he feels qualified to endorse the 'climate change' scam. smells like a usg appendage to me
funkenstein_: good morin' lords ladies and esteemed bots
funkenstein_: pete_dushenski, what's goin' on with VW?
funkenstein_: the notion that britney spears did damage to music might be compared to the idea that Garza did damage to bitcoin
funkenstein_: while itunes listeners, CD collectors, and arena concert attendees are part of musical history like redditors with circle accounts are part of bitcoin history
lobbes: I'd argue that 'music' is just fine, but it is the 'popular music industry' that suffers today. But, the masses have come to expect (tm) as they say
pete_dushenski: funkenstein_: vw is under investigation for 'studying to the test' atm. i'm sure they'll be slapped with a big ol' fine by usg and then watch their sales fall by 10-20%
lobbes: yeah, didn't they alter their code to 'switch' when it detected testing or something similar?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73666 @ 0.00075727 = 55.7851 BTC [-] {3}
pete_dushenski: << thread
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 04:55:31; pete_dushenski: << turns out that i was off the mark here. to wit : "Emissions system and fuel economy testing is conducted while a vehicle is placed on a dynamometer—think of it as a two big rollers or a treadmill—rather than driving on the road. The vehicle has only its driving wheels rolling (the front ones, in the case of VW vehicles). But the rear tires
lobbes: aha
ben_vulpes: lobbes: usg tentacle is the catholic church's only future existence
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell asciilifeform that'd truly make it a little shop of horrors!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: lobbes: in essence, the usg's continued insistence that, in every regard and in every field, the map is the territory, is used to trip up both citizens and corporations wherever and wherever it might be convenient
ben_vulpes: funkenstein_: can't really hold the streetwalker responsible for the condition of the streets now can you?
pete_dushenski: basically, the usg is one giant boobytrap
pete_dushenski: and vw's hindleg is stuck in a trap from which is must now chew its way out
pete_dushenski: <-- excellent reference to -->
assbot: Rage Against The Zipcar – No Fixed Abode ... ( )
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: I'm Building A Rape Tunnel ... ( )
pete_dushenski: can't say i'd come across this tlp article until now.
pete_dushenski: !s rape tunnel
assbot: 0 results for 'rape tunnel' :
pete_dushenski: "Why rape? Because as an artistic gesture, it's one of the most impactful I can think of... It dawned on me that if the work [we local artists] created had never existed, the world would be no different than if it had. None of it mattered to anyone outside of our small and insignificant circle of peers. I wanted something that would have more impact...I want to make it clear that I plan to make the experience as
pete_dushenski: unpleasant as I possibly can to anyone who dares to crawl through the tunnel. I will try to the best of my ability to make them regret their decision...I'll try my very best to sexually assault him or her. The tunnel is constructed in such a way that it gets smaller the closer you get to the project room. The bigger you are, the more difficult it is to comfortably crawl out. And trust me, I have a lot of secret
pete_dushenski: s up my sleeve to ensure that I can overpower anyone that comes through the tunnel."
pete_dushenski: ^too lulzy not to keep on record
pete_dushenski: 'artist' is/was one Richard Whitehurst
wywialm: shinohai, depends on the definition of socialism
wywialm: :)
wywialm: i'm no expert on catholic teaching, but under charitable interpretation, Pope Francis is not outside catholic guidelines on care of the poor and principle of subsidiarity
pete_dushenski: wywialm shinohai et al., i refer you to
assbot: "Universalism: postwar progressivism as a Christian sect" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
pete_dushenski: pope poverty-spec isn't exactly breaking the mold here.
wywialm: pete_dushenski, to be fair, i'm not sure how this relates to Pope Francis official teaching or private opinions
wywialm: could you please explain?
pete_dushenski: wywialm: the idea being that xtians are the original socialists, if not the jews before them.
wywialm: as i stated earlier, this depends on the definition of socialism
pete_dushenski: so expecting francis or any other clergyman of 'the people' to expound the virtues of capitalism or sanity is like expecting a potato to grow legs and start running marathons
pete_dushenski: socialism : the political viewpoint that holds as its highest virtue the coercive redistribution of resources
wywialm: then Pope Francis is not a socialist
pete_dushenski: oh ?
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
wywialm: the catholic teaching on the subject (afaik) is that there should be no redistribution, but that there are obligations to the poor that should be met in a non-centralistic manner
wywialm: also, the effect - the redistribution - is not the virtue, charity, i.e. voluntary act is
wywialm: and the virtue is the preservation of the moral order of society, of which private property is an essential part
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.0007597 = 17.5871 BTC [+] {3}
wywialm: what must be said, though, that in his private utterances, Pope Francis leaves much space for uncharitable interpretation
pete_dushenski: eg ?
pete_dushenski: the private utterances, that is
wywialm: e.g. his adhortation he issued just after election
wywialm: to my knowledge, it does not have a status of an official teaching
pete_dushenski: ;;google pope francis adhortation
gribble: Pope Francis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Will Pope Francis Clash With American Conservatives on His Trip to ...: <>; For G.O.P., Pope Francis' Visit to Congress Comes With Tensions ...: (1 more message)
wywialm: evangelii gaudium, if i remember correctly
pete_dushenski: wywialm: you have a link to transcript or something ?
wywialm: let me look
assbot: Apostolic Exhortations | Francis ... ( )
wywialm: note that there is no latin text
pete_dushenski: ya, why not ?
wywialm: please ask the Pope
wywialm: the same goes with his recent encyclical
pete_dushenski: lol will do
ascii_field: l0l, that pope is in town today, neon signs warning of it on the 'beltway'
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell pope_francis are you too much of a 'man of the people' for latin now ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: he's a vat.-II-compliant pope
ascii_field: iirc in usa somewhere there is a spare, schismatic pope who isn't
pete_dushenski: and web-II compliant tambien
ascii_field: dig him up.
pete_dushenski: i'll leave that bit of homework to others, wywialm perhaps
ascii_field: 'Whem I'm released, the only restriction I have is travelling for the first few months. Other than that, Im allowed to use the internet. Im debating wether to buy the blackphone when I get out or just root an android ' << win
wywialm: ascii_field, incidentally, the Vat-II does not mandate majority of His actions, beginning but not ending with the Mass and ecumenic policy
pete_dushenski: "56. While the earnings of a minority are growing exponentially, so too is the gap separating the majority from the prosperity enjoyed by those happy few. This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyrann
pete_dushenski: y is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules. Debt and the accumulation of interest also make it difficult for countries to realize the potential of their own economies and keep citizens from enjoying their real purchasing power. To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which have taken on worldwide dimensions. T
pete_dushenski: he thirst for power and possessions knows no limits. In this system, which tends to devour everything which stands in the way of increased profits, whatever is fragile, like the environment, is defenseless before the interests of a deified market, which become the only rule." << every socialist hashtag wrapped up in a single paragraph. no points for guessing who wrote.
ascii_field: wywialm: pope has ~actions~ !?! who else, queen of denmark ? emperor of jp ?
wywialm: well, the pope has vastly more power on His subjects than queen of denmark, if this is what you mean
ascii_field: >> << jail manual. handy.
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: dpaste: 0Q12M1P ... ( )
ascii_field: 'Confinement in any institution such as Lewisburg is never a pleasant experience. Every attempt is
ascii_field: made, however, to make thi
ascii_field: s institution one in which each man has the opportunity to “make the most”
ascii_field: of his time. It is important that each inmate follow the rules of the institution in order that all
ascii_field: may live in comparative harmony without fear or threats or intimidation.'
ascii_field: 'In January 2009, USP Lewisburg began a mission change converting to a Special Management Unit (SMU) facility. Therefore, the information in this handbook is for the general population inmates only (Cadre Unit).' << this is worth explaining. SMU is a series of 'special prisons' where folks are held incommunicado. instituted under bush II
phf: << 'man of the people'
assbot: ... ( )
shinohai: Ah great find pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: despite paul's opinion to the contrary, there's always a trilema reference somewhere
pete_dushenski: !up ascii_field
pete_dushenski: wywialm: in any event, that's a 'world's tallest midget' competition. the pope is still just a politician representing way too many people and interests to be effective
wywialm: again, only to my knowledge, he does not represent any 'people', however considered
shinohai: I brought up the subject due to the statement he made that "I am not a socialist" yet in my limited knowledge of the subject, he has a lot of socialist ideas.
wywialm: and this sentence, shinohai, is probably very close to truth
shinohai: trilema, is there any knowledge it doesn't contain
shinohai: This bs >>> checkpoints.cpp:59:1: fatal error: opening dependency file obj/nogui/checkpoints.d: No such file or directory
wywialm: pete_dushenski, he may try to speak as the voice of the 'people', but it is clear to me that it is way outside of his mandate as a pope
pete_dushenski: wywialm: ok. i'll bite. what's the pope ~actual~ mandate ?
shinohai: To distract people from child-diddling with his flashy outfits ?
wywialm: the most precise definition of this is the vaticanum I constitution "pastor aeternus", and this is to guard the tradition of the Church
phf: shinohai: you're probably missing src/obj/nogui folder?
deedbot-: [Qntra] FDA Regulatory Overreach Allows Price Gouging -
shinohai: I'll try manually adding it. I'm in the habit of deleting object files when a build fails
shinohai: (-__\) #facepalm that was it ...
phf: i think there was a conversation at some point how diff/patch doesn't create empty directories and you have to resort to .keepme hacks, it was suggested that the correct solution is to patch makefile.unix instead, but i don't think that was done
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: "Because in spite of prices being involve," << missing a letter here
BingoBoingo: thx pete_dushenski fxd
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
danielpbarron: << Jesus said to help your neighbor; not to force your neighbor to help some other guy neither of you has ever heard of
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:13:59; pete_dushenski: socialism : the political viewpoint that holds as its highest virtue the coercive redistribution of resources
pete_dushenski: jesus is an entity very much distinct from the church
pete_dushenski: this is obvious
pete_dushenski: that the pope follows jesus' teachings to the letter would be like obama following jefferson's
danielpbarron: if you mean the "catholic" church, then I couldn't agree more:
assbot: A True Church - Roman Catholicism Leads to Hell ... ( )
pete_dushenski: in this case, yes, i do
pete_dushenski: as it's our subject matter
wywialm: pete_dushenski, there is no letter in Jesus's teaching to be followed
wywialm: that does not however mean that his power is arbitrary
pete_dushenski: << moar on emissions testing with a focus on e.u. oversight.
assbot: VW’s cheating is just the tip of the iceberg | Transport & Environment ... ( )
lobbes: !up ascii_field
pete_dushenski: << wywialm danielpbarron
assbot: The left has its pope ... ( )
pete_dushenski: "It is not poverty, but prosperity, that needs explaining. Poverty is automatic, but prosperity requires many things – none of which is equally distributed around the world or even within a given society."
pete_dushenski: !up thestringpuller
danielpbarron: > Paine rejected the teachings of "any church that I know of," including "the Roman church." << me too (with the exception of that one, which I found almost by accident through a mutual interest in the Ron Paul presidential campaign)
pete_dushenski: o what was 'that one' ?
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: so what's your way to limit wealth ?
danielpbarron: the one to which I linked earlier
lobbes: << this one?
danielpbarron: ya
danielpbarron: I met the author of that site, and a couple of his daughters, one of his sons, and his sister and her son, oh and his mother
danielpbarron: all at PaulFest 2012 in florida
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: kill all the rich people when they get past threshold
thestringpuller: i.e. rape and pillage!
danielpbarron: and on the topic of socialism vs capitalism and the Bible, see also: >> Believers in the first century owned slaves (Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1; 1 Timothy 6:2), and they were not instructed to let them go; but rather, to treat them with justice
assbot: A True Church - Slavery ... ( )
thestringpuller: But /wind 1
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: this'd be too hard to measure and even harder to enforce. honestly, a sterile male clone army is simpler.
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: "As such, I would find it absolutely essential, in order to take this question to its logical conclusion, to murder everyone in my constituency extant and to replace them with an army of sterile maleviii clones (perhaps with the help of Monsanto because I hear they’re pretty good at this sort of thing), whom will be raised by robot nannies, so as to control for the differences between parenting qualities and s
wywialm: pete_dushenski, you don't have to convince me that pope allows himself statements that sound dangerously leftist
pete_dushenski: wywialm: is this another case of 'do what he means not what he says' ?
thestringpuller: Add some soma and other drugs in the mix and you have robotic people who don't care about wealth but "maintaining" the machine that spawned them. Honestly in this context a differentiation of male clones would benefit society in the same way the Irkin empire in Invader Zim came to power.
pete_dushenski: wywialm: because that opens the door to an untold number of personal fantasies, as has been previously discussed in the logs
wywialm: is this another case of 'do what he means not what he says' << just the opposite
thestringpuller: At that rate instead of limiting wealth, why not make the leader of society the person who happens to be the tallest, (if that is everyone is bred to be the same height but due to anomolies one or two individiuals are much taller than the rest)
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: because the leader is the breeder, not the slave clone ?
wywialm: do what he says as interpreted as charitably as possible and in the light of the whole catholic teaching
pete_dushenski: wywialm: go on.
wywialm: what pope means is not more interesting than your average intellectual
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: actually no. in this context the leader is bred of "the machine".
thestringpuller: lets say we have a breeding machine that breeds all humans.
wywialm: what he says, in particular what he says officially and marks as his official teaching, is way more important
thestringpuller: a few come out as taller, and are hence deemed leaders.
thestringpuller: Eventually they die and more are spawned in the machine.
wywialm: however, this pope doesn't seem to be bothered by such things as 'official text'
thestringpuller: In this scenario I would say all men are a slave to the machine. Without the machine the species ends.
pete_dushenski: wywialm: mkay then the issue at hand is from whence we derive this 'charitable interpretation' if not from his 'meaning' rather than his 'words'
pete_dushenski: either pope's words are his words and stand as they are, or else they have an alternative and alterior 'meaning' and can be 'charitably interpreted'
wywialm: well, catholicism has not begun in 2013 and not in 1965 as well and there is plenty of context to be applied
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: and the machine came about naturally ? just like that ?
pete_dushenski: wywialm: that's not my argument. on that we agree. but you still need to back up
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 18:24:29; wywialm: is this another case of 'do what he means not what he says' << just the opposite
wywialm: yes, that is what i'm trying to defend
pete_dushenski: you seem to be doing a very circular and specious job of it :P
thestringpuller: Well lets say the machine was created by protohumans (pre-machine humans), and then as a result became slaves to the machine
thestringpuller: future generations became slaves*
thestringpuller: the protohumans eventually die off and what is left is a human race dedicated to maintaining the machine, in the sense of the zerg protecting the hivemind. Here the machine is the leader not a man.
wywialm: i'm not particularly interested in Jorge Bergoglio's opinion and what he means, i'm rather scared that this is far away from i'd like to hear
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: can the machine have lazers ? for shooting non-tall slaves ? but then one tall one survives the blast and becomes the leader of the resistance ?
pete_dushenski: wywialm: is jorge too socialistic for your taste ? or ...
wywialm: but i'm interested in what is the Pope's teaching on the subject of helping the poor is
thestringpuller: Random L0L: I'm Charlie Shrem, Bitcoin Pioneer currently in Federal Prison. << I'm tempted to ask, "Is your butthole still tight?"
thestringpuller: ^ Shrem's AMA btw
wywialm: if this sounds ambigous to me - and it does - i'd check what is the context of what the pope says, and this is e.g. his predecessors
wywialm: yes, jorge bergoglio *sounds* way too 'leftist' for me
danielpbarron: thestringpuller, who would want to have sex with him?
assbot: Logged on 19-09-2015 03:02:00; mircea_popescu: nobody's getting "anally dilated" in prison dude. wake up and smell the coffee, erections are rare.
thestringpuller: Look at that smiley baby face! We've all seen shawshank redemption.
thestringpuller: Come on a lifer with no conjugal visits gets desperate.
pete_dushenski: wywialm: yes, jorge bergoglio *sounds* way too 'leftist' for me << and yet,
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:14:26; wywialm: then Pope Francis is not a socialist
pete_dushenski: are we splitting hairs over leftism v. socialism ?
thestringpuller: ^- pete_dushenski is there a difference at this point?
thestringpuller: wind 4
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42092 @ 0.00075996 = 31.9882 BTC [+] {3}
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: to wywialm there may be, tis what i'm interested to find out
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: i've always wondered, by definition, does socialism prevent natural selection?
thestringpuller: By forcing society to be "equal" doesn't that benefit the stupid more than the fit?
phf: doesn't cathoic church has a deedbot of some sort? i'm more familiar with orthodox system, but presumably they come out every once in a while to updates for canon and the catechism, "we found the previous belief that 10 angels can fit on a head of a needle invalid, and on the account of recent scientific developments in nanotechnology, we are now convinced that the correct number is in fact 17" sort of thing
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: see, 'socialism', while we tend to use it in this manner here, doesn't ~have~ to refer to the societal level. it can also refer to, say, the family level, wherein it works quite well and, yes, prevents natural selection, which'd be the point.
pete_dushenski: !up thestringpuller
phf: in which case whatever pope says is basically his personal believes as a famous public figure
wywialm: pete_dushenski, i hope not. i said that Bergoglio sounds leftist, because that is in my opinion broader than (at least economically understood) socialism
wywialm: but i think there is difference between saying that about Bergoglio as Bergoglio, and as Pope Francis
pete_dushenski: phf: catholic church definitely revised its opinions from time to time. see galileo.
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: when you say from a family level (which is more decentralized in context to global societies socialism), do you mean immediate family? Dad Mom Borther Sister? Or do you mean a larger lineage: grandpa, grandma, aunt uncle cousins?
pete_dushenski: wywialm: nope. that just doesn't wash. this is the EXACT same shtick as 'opinions of ceo of megacorp are not the opinions of megacorp'
pete_dushenski: yes. they are.
pete_dushenski: wtf else is a leader for.
wywialm: pete_dushenski, i'm a little bit familiar with the galileo case, and i wouldn't put it as an example of revision of doctrine
thestringpuller: and even here wouldn't socialism in the family unit prevent natural selection only temporarily?
pete_dushenski: this rationalist dualist approach to division of the same mind holds no water.
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: families are very personal things, up for each to decide where to draw the lines of 'close enough to care about'
wywialm: i do not believe that pope has opinions, simply put. what pope says is what pope says *officially* and not to the journalists at the airport
pete_dushenski: mnope.
pete_dushenski: there's no official v. unofficial distinction to be drawn. none whatsoever.
wywialm: i wanted to point that the level of officiality (at least by catholic criteria) is ambiguous even with most publicised texts, such as his adhortation or encyclicals
wywialm: we have to disagree on that point
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: yes but the affect of "preventing" natural selection from occurring in the family unit is only temporary. even d00d protected in parents basement until his 40's may never have kids. (or perhaps the barrier to having kids is so low the termporary shield against selection of any sort gives unfit offspring the opportunity to spawn with other unfit offspring i.e. idiocracy)
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: imo in both these cases, it's detrimental to the species since the weak are perserved for no other reason than "because I can and I love my son/daughter".
wywialm: there is difference between what i say loosely, what i say clearsigned and what i sign and put on the deedbot
thestringpuller: ^^- Whatever you say at this point is logged...
pete_dushenski: wywialm: the only difference there is verifiability
thestringpuller: ^^^ and that
pete_dushenski: which doesn't apply to the pope's case here.
wywialm: no, as the pope does not sign with only his personal key
pete_dushenski: there's no 'maybe he didn't say that' when it's verifiably on the record.
pete_dushenski: wywialm: pope has multiple keys ?!
wywialm: well, catholic church teaches that he received some from his predecessors :)
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: your 'imo' as to the merits and value of intrafamilial socialism doesn't stand up against the biological and historical record.
wywialm: also, he is bound by what has been signed by them
pete_dushenski: it's much too expensive an action to be a spandrel
wywialm: i think this is a good metaphor
pete_dushenski: s/spandrel/vestigial << hungry brain hard at work !
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: but this isn't caveman times when women would fuck you based on how awesome of a hunter you are.
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: hunter fucks women, not the other way around.
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: my mistake; but intrafamilial socialism was beneficial in allowing the species to use "strength in nubmers" against say the wooly mammoth and sabertooth tiger.
thestringpuller: In this instance I'd think weakest hunter is used as cannon fodder.
thestringpuller: In modern times it seems to enable stupidity rather than squelch it.
pete_dushenski: wywialm: well, catholic church teaches that he received some from his predecessors :) << doesn't add up with >> also, he is bound by what has been signed by them
pete_dushenski: pope either owns the keys of his predecessors, and therefore everything they've every signed, or he doesn't and then he can pick and choose what to sign with his own key
wywialm: he cannot contradict what they chose to sign with these keys, can he?
pete_dushenski: either way, he is bound by what he says on record. not what he 'means' in the context of whatever arbitrary third parties may deem to be relevant teachings of his predecessors
wywialm: but what he says is not obvious
pete_dushenski: so you say.
pete_dushenski: while you ALSO say "'do what he means not what he says' << just the opposite"
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: holy fuck is this thread a snore.
pete_dushenski: lol
wywialm: :)
thestringpuller: ascii_field: my piano teacher wants to talk to you.
thestringpuller: he is like you but instead of computers he does piano.
ascii_field: wawat
mod6: piano reverser
thestringpuller: Showed him a bunch of quotes and he was like "is this guy russian?"
ascii_field: what could've led him to that suspicion.
wywialm: pete_dushenski, i already tried to clarify what i meant on 'what he says'
thestringpuller: mod6: seriously he is a music reverse engineer. He can listen to a song and write down the chords on a single listen.
thestringpuller: d00d is fucking magical like good ol alf here
pete_dushenski: wywialm: yes, 'signed statements only', which still doesn't wash in mine eyes, but seems to be a matter of perspective.
pete_dushenski: i guess you're free to do business with people who have this duality is you so please :)
wywialm: if you meet, say, Warren Buffett, and he tells you 'sure, I'll give you some money', do you expect the cash to come from his personal funds or from BRK accounts? I'd expect from any officer to distinguish between his private actions and actions of his office
wywialm: and with pope, the actions are primarily teaching, so i strive to keep this difference there
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00075012 = 31.8051 BTC [-] {5}
wywialm: in particular, when i do not approve of his certain actions, i assume them to be his private and not official, unless proven otherwise
mircea_popescu: holy log...
wywialm: hi, mircea_popescu :)
mircea_popescu: <funkenstein_> the notion that britney spears did damage to music might be compared to the idea that Garza did damage to bitcoin << still, i'd pay a little for it not being possible for britney to exist. and garza idem.
ascii_field: ^ deal! where do i pay
mircea_popescu: if we can have an arrangement where these peasants are opressed into the dirt by boot to the face, i'm willing to forego ipads in exchange.
ascii_field: this'd be lovely.
mircea_popescu: because fuck this sort of rotten pseudo-creativity.
pete_dushenski: ascii_field: poor people can't pay
ascii_field: sure they can
mircea_popescu: how goes wywialm
ascii_field: pay last penny, sell shirt
wywialm: quite slowly, but fine, thanks, and you?
mircea_popescu: arguing with people in a layered cake.
mircea_popescu: << gotta love how this thing insta-rebalances so the no side makes a shaving above 101%, ie, what bitbet takes.
assbot: BitBet - BTC to top $700 before November :: 5.03 B (4%) on Yes, 118.82 B (96%) on No | closing in 2 weeks 2 days | weight: 38`035 (100`000 to 22`000) ... ( )
mircea_popescu: srsly, the odds bitcoin breaks out next month are worse than 10:1 ?
ascii_field: breaks out ?
mircea_popescu: ie goes over 700
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25409 @ 0.00075129 = 19.0895 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: o hey, check out the ballas insights.
mircea_popescu: "Fear assumes limitless possibilities: the thing you fear has infinite power, infinite resources, infinite resolve, unknown identity. Hate comes when you know them. Cyril Connolly did not say, "if it bleeds, we can kill it." But he should have."
mircea_popescu: banal shit, but : there's two kinds of men. there's those who assume the usg is anon all powerful ; and those who've killed usg agents after being bored to tears by their inept begging.
shinohai: !up ascii_field
assbot: Issue 460 - google-security-research - Cisco AnyConnect Secure Mobility Client v3.1.08009 Elevation of Privilege - Google Security Research - Google Project Hosting ... ( )
mircea_popescu: << because he's an uncultivated hack.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:25:48; wywialm: please ask the Pope
ascii_field: 'The fix for this issue seemed to be modifying the file verification process to only allow a signed file which also has in its version information the original filename of vpndownloader.exe. This, along with the name change makes it clear you only want to execute the VPN Downloader application. However the code doesn’t limit the location of the executable file, so one exploitation vector is DLL planting. The downloade
ascii_field: r loads a lot of DLLs from the executable directory first, so by copying the vpndownloader.exe file from Program Files to a temporary directory and dropping an appropriately named DLL you can get code execution as SYSTEM.'
ascii_field: Run Moar Winblowz!
mircea_popescu: << im kinda impressed with wywialm s rather well rounded understanding of catholic issues.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 16:58:16; wywialm: the most precise definition of this is the vaticanum I constitution "pastor aeternus", and this is to guard the tradition of the Church
mircea_popescu: anyway. the pope has one job and one tool. his job is to provide non-breaking answers to any questions that can't otherwise be resolved or set aside. his tool is infallibility, which is to say that if he speaks ex cathedra he can't be wrong.
mircea_popescu: this is almost exactly what the master of a harem is, for that matter.
wywialm: re: infallibility, indeed, though i'm not sure if this is his only tool
mircea_popescu: name another ?
ascii_field: when's the last time he pulled that trigger ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i very much doubt there's that many people who are the intellectual equals of the task. the catholics decided that this must be so, but setting that doctrine aside, i find it dubious in practice.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field that's the problem, the task is made significantly harder by previous idiots who didn't understand they were pulling the trigger.
mircea_popescu: think of catholicism as much harder programming with immutability baked in.
ascii_field: was gonna say.
ascii_field: in engineering this used to be known as 'design space shrinkage'
mircea_popescu: it's a wonder it hasn't yet fallen over.
mircea_popescu: quite that, yes.
ascii_field: as described by, e.g., rob pike
ascii_field: in his 'systems research is dead' talk
wywialm: he has more ordiary tools at his disposal, the infallibility is the ultimate. He may excommunicate, promulgate canon law, issue church penalties, issue magisterial statements, accept & decline ordinance of bishops
mircea_popescu: the ordinary tools are predicated on the tool. much like i will go "do i need to pick up the stick ?"
shinohai: <<< ikr? I asked a simple question, wywialm expounds on it in great detail.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 19:40:11; mircea_popescu: << im kinda impressed with wywialm s rather well rounded understanding of catholic issues.
mircea_popescu: this only works because the stick.
wywialm: ok, in this we agree
mircea_popescu: aha.
wywialm: let me only make the provision that the application of ordinary tools, while depending on the power you refer to, is not infallible (just to clarify, in case it's not obvious)
mircea_popescu: certainly.
mircea_popescu: anyway, "voice of the people" pope is a gross misunderstanding of the entire thing already.
mircea_popescu: to francis' defense, he does a lot more of the pretense of that than actuality of it,
mircea_popescu: but still.
pete_dushenski: bbiab
wywialm: to francis' defense, he does a lot more of the pretense of that than actuality of it << that is another good point
mircea_popescu: anyway, if people be curious in latino-derpage,ón_preferencial_por_los_pobres
assbot: Opción preferencial por los pobres - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i thought it was a kgb front
mircea_popescu: more or less.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the heretical, unwelcome, incorrect, impudent, poisonous, insolent, frivolous, vulgar, coarse, brazen proposition that the poor are not lesser humans but more, in contrary of nature, obvious fact and the manifest will of any conceivable divinity.
mircea_popescu: << both of them, actually.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 19:03:27; ascii_field: holy fuck is this thread a snore.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28264 @ 0.00075198 = 21.254 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "Mustaches and beards are permitted so long as they are kept clean and neat."
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wtf happened at lewisburg.
wywialm: i'll be going, thanks pete_dushenski for a nice (even if boring to the audience) discussion
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38450 @ 0.00075113 = 28.8809 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.00074873 = 34.5165 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00074822 = 43.4716 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo starting to wonder if pogo could ever run bitcoind and a form of p2pool at the same time
shinohai: Interesting thought BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Would likely require a deturded p2pool with a gossip sort of "pool with people I don't think are shitheads" Wot mechanism
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: we don't have anything remotely close to a pogo-capable bitcoind.
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: see recent,
assbot: Logged on 20-09-2015 04:11:51; asciilifeform: rewinding to,
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: of course that is an obstacle.
shinohai: I have faith in you ascii_field
ascii_field: somebody else is gonna have to do it.
ascii_field: i - elementarily - lack the time.
BingoBoingo: pogo may end up better suited to simpler #b-a services that emerge than serving bitcoin proper
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: gotta understand why i even opened the issue to begin with. the dependence of therealbitcoin on pc hardware is an extreme danger.
BingoBoingo: it is
BingoBoingo: dependence of gossipd (whenever it emerges) may face geater danger
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: gossipd is a computationally very lightweight thing, and also does not suffer from network effect
ascii_field: i.e. if three people have it, it is just as useful as if 33 did
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: But the "network effect" in the sense of putting up more relay nodes with various people's trust preferences reduces DDoS risks
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: correctly-implemented gossipd is intrinsically ddosproof.
ascii_field: even one a single node taken separately.
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: But is the wire DDoS proof
ascii_field: depends which
ascii_field: but who said you had to have just one wire.
BingoBoingo: Ah
BingoBoingo: << LibreSSL removes SHA-0 which is apparently still in OpenSSL
assbot: ... ( )
BingoBoingo: In other news, trolling the news with basic gardening
assbot: Winfield gardener finds strange fruit on the vine ... ( )
BingoBoingo: Just in case it gets pulled
assbot: Winfield gardener finds strange fruit on the vine ... ( )
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
BingoBoingo: The answer to the problem is not "tomato-watermelon hybrid"
BingoBoingo: !up K1NGREX
BingoBoingo: K1NGREX: That is an awfully declarative IRC nick
lobbes: redundant, too
shinohai: Doesn't "Rex" mean king in Latin anyway ?
BingoBoingo: Dammit they edited the story before archiving to introduce part of the eggplant truth
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74080 @ 0.00074786 = 55.4015 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26150 @ 0.00074622 = 19.5137 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: awwwlolz
shinohai: Somehow, I just don't think he's gonna respond to me on that.
mircea_popescu: must suck to be reduced to trying to support yourself through whoring out your name, which you gotta keep telling yourself is somehow valuable. which it isn't, but desperate scammers don't have other options and who knows, really stupid noobs may not know any better.
shinohai: I can't find *any* contribution he really makes to the space besides increasing popcorn share prices.
shinohai: I almost responded to his baby Jesus analogy, but didn't want to offend danielpbarron
mircea_popescu: this is actually a valid question to ask the muppets. "name a venture roger ver was associated with to any degree that didn't fail".
mircea_popescu: and no, "bitcoin" is not an acceptable answer. what's next, "hey, he was an inmate at pleasant valley and it didn't fail either" ?
mircea_popescu: he's definitely more closely associated with the cdcr than with btc.
shinohai: xD
shinohai: Has Ver ever made an appearance here?
mircea_popescu: i dun recall.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4283 @ 0.00074621 = 3.196 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50117 @ 0.00074559 = 37.3667 BTC [-]
shinohai: <<< make me a sandwich
assbot: ... ( )
pete_dushenski: Yogi Berra, a Hall of Fame catcher for the New York Yankees whose mangled syntax made him one of the sports world's most beloved and frequently quoted figures, has died at the age of 90."
pete_dushenski: in memory, some quotes :
pete_dushenski: “When you come to a fork in the road, take it.”
pete_dushenski: "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."
pete_dushenski: “A nickel ain’t worth a dime anymore.”
pete_dushenski: “Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical.”
trinque: that 3rd one is excellent
gernika: << seems to me to be an argument against block size inflation.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 22:33:35; pete_dushenski: "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."
mircea_popescu: nice.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29319 @ 0.00075212 = 22.0514 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: teh sandwich i mean.
BingoBoingo: I was about to say earlier that one of the people on my shortlist of Satoshi candidates died today.
pete_dushenski: << pleasure was mine.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 20:26:20; wywialm: i'll be going, thanks pete_dushenski for a nice (even if boring to the audience) discussion
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30650 @ 0.0007439 = 22.8005 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24163 @ 0.00074329 = 17.9601 BTC [-]
assbot: ... ( )
shinohai: <<< someone mentions bitcoin-assets lawgs
assbot: Bitcoin XT Post Mortem - Group Discussion ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58800 @ 0.00074272 = 43.6719 BTC [-] {4}
danielpbarron: << please don't hold back on my account; it's not possible to offend me over some side comment. And regarding The Bible, I've heard it all.
assbot: Logged on 23-09-2015 22:18:50; shinohai: I almost responded to his baby Jesus analogy, but didn't want to offend danielpbarron
shinohai: I figured one snappy tweet was enough for him today anyway. First one was pretty good.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00074238 = 9.1313 BTC [-]
phf: is there reason why openssl docs snip by Marcel Hernandez is not part of canon?
phf: oh i see what it is , nm
phf: shinohai: you probably have rm_gitignore.patch applied, which removes .gitignore files from src/obj/nogui and nukes the folders along the way?
shinohai: Nah I am experimenting with an arm build and deleted the folder myself, forgot to add them back like a genius.
phf: ah word
BingoBoingo: Weird, I was smoking out front and saw a camaro with the license plate "For USD" or maybe "For USO"
shinohai: Feebs are checking up on ya BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: shinohai: I just kinda assume that nowadays. Apparently one of the local 5-0 lives in the duplex across from this house, but the only sign I get that he lives there is he stops there on breaks and says he lives there
BingoBoingo: Not the weirdest thing though. The weirdest thing was seeing a train full of open top coal cars going through town from WEST to EAST
shinohai: I feel safe knowing our government has it's eye on you, you're so dangerous and all.
phf: creating jobs
shinohai: Wasting money for no obvious reason.
phf: !shasum wot
assbot: sha256sum wot_users.sql.gz : 19156ac26b3007ee5d78dd7e882c2ba7228f0cef61a2bb2579e08a5e81836c9d
assbot: sha256sum wot_ratings.sql.gz : f76d906ae56e1c2582e66ef3427e0fcd7a5319d69fcfcbec0a7bcf1e02db5de0
assbot: sha256sum trustlist.txt : 97b2a0630c22d02ae4c604a0caa031b72d6db600fdf788ffd78ca939f3d1d348
BingoBoingo: Seriously though why would a train carrying coal move through the area around St Louis from WEST to East?
phf: ^- above values don't seem to be correct. i'm getting f76d906ae56e1c2582e66ef3427e0fcd7a5319d69fcfcbec0a7bcf1e02db5de0 wot_users.sql.gz and e431011e2a09122a8695a9a5d326d760f5da1e0fe40da112670d2bf694440488 wot_ratings.sql.gz
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34385 @ 0.00074358 = 25.568 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25350 @ 0.00074196 = 18.8087 BTC [-] {3}
phf: that was copy paste fail, but i'm still getting wrong shasums,
assbot: ... ( )
shinohai: 488c71753df901d9e6b9ac8278cb6206f5ef05eebb9a8e760a8041b26d56bc2a wot_users.sql.gz
shinohai: so yeah, diff
mod6: <+phf> shinohai: you probably have rm_gitignore.patch applied, which removes .gitignore files from src/obj/nogui and nukes the folders along the way? << i said to disregard this patch. reason is, it wipes out output dirs required by the bitcoin makefile.
mod6: oh, thought that said "should have"
shinohai: Nah it was me derping and forgetting to mkdir obj after I deleted the other :/
mod6: anyway, yeah, just be aware that it breaks things with the Makefile.
assbot: [BTC-dev] Remove .gitignore files from Reference Implementation ... ( )
mod6: ah, yeah, ok good deal.
shinohai: How's that V coming mod6
mod6: nice, actually.
mod6: working on some cleanup. toposort seems to be doing what it should be, press is testing well so far (manual tests), currently writing the help info etc.
mod6: i perhaps wanna touch on some colorization of the graphviz graph nodes depending on the signatory, we'll see.
asciilifeform: mod6: neato!
mod6: I also am considering adding a "pull" or "sync" method. something to check your local vpatches against whats available at the foundation.
mod6: we'll see.
mod6: asciilifeform: yeah, it's coming along!
mod6: oh, and I was gonna add a bunch of cucumber tests to exercise the V code to ensure correctness. haven't even started that part yet.
mod6: but shouldn't be too bad.
shinohai will test cukes as necessary ....
mod6: i mean cucumber with perl is better than with java or ruby. might be nice with python, but again, that's not exactly my thing yet.
mod6: so maybe someday, we'll have the gherkin with a python backend.
mod6: walking my way through alf's toposort taught me a few things though.
shinohai: Fuck java
mod6: including that there is no actual way to have an else case for a for loop in perl. lol.
mod6: so i had to kinda make my own magic there. was simple with an added flag + check.
BingoBoingo: !up chatquack
shinohai: I'm willing to bet you need 13 libraries just to echo "hello world" in java.
mod6: well, arguably there are a variety of classes involved there. but you can make that happen with just the standard development kit, no special imports of packages are required.
mod6: but yeah, java sucks.
BingoBoingo: Java not only sucks, it is owned by evil
mod6: no arguments there
trinque: unblinking, eyebrow-less evil
mircea_popescu: gas chamber kek
asciilifeform: gasenwagen!
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> gasenwagen! << Tis the People's Wagen nao
mod6: The National Razor had a better ring to it.
asciilifeform: faaaaaaaahrvergnügen !
mircea_popescu is tempted to start whorehouse, call it people's house./
asciilifeform: prolly already sop in north kr
BingoBoingo: Subminor 21 co lol
assbot: pizzaface18 comments on ELI5 21Inc. (part 2): Why do we panic when mining pools hit 51%, but support 21Inc.'s inevitable 51% IoT-based pool? (Since it's "Not about the mining", it's about microtransactions mined for free by 21Inc51%Pool^TM?) ... ( )
cazalla: <<< "All violence against women begins with disrespecting women," Mr Turnbull told reporters at the launch in Melbourne.
assbot: PM calls for it to become 'un-Australian' to disrespect women: $100 million commitment on domestic violence - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) ... ( )
mircea_popescu: i haven't read bitcointalk in like years, but hey, i tend to read stuff people link here. and in that thread, iCEBREAKER dude is fucking breaking 'em.
mircea_popescu: "Sure, go ahead and "challenge gatekeepers" with your TOR blacklists and awesome ~0% of network mining power.
mircea_popescu: To the proposal of "XT?" the community overwhelmingly responded "NACK" (cite: So regardless of your fact-free preference-tailored extreme minority opinion, the debate is over, and was won on inherency take-outs + presumption (not to mention solvency and the a priori 'FUCK HEARN AND THE CORE DEV HE RODE IN ON' deontological imperative).
mircea_popescu: "Shackles of the BIP?"
mircea_popescu: Oh right, the 1MB cap is exactly like slavery days. Got it. That's not offensive at all. And neither are your first world armchair claims of resistance against censorship. You and your exorbitantly privileged critique of theymos' moderation wouldn't last a day in China, where real censorship exists.
mircea_popescu: Could you possibly be anymore self-righteous and self-regarding, while simultaneously self-pitying?
mircea_popescu: For very good reasons, XT got #REKT, and all the pretentious undergraduate Marxist pomo jargon in the universe won't help it be anything but a colossal failure."
mircea_popescu: is the guy even here ?
shinohai: I've never seen him, but I found it pretty nifty he mentioned #b-a
mircea_popescu: if anyone still got an account somehow, see if he maybe wants to write for qntra ? i could read more of that
mircea_popescu: but i doubt i'll be doing more tardstalk.
asciilifeform: link?
mircea_popescu: shinohai> <<< someone mentions bitcoin-assets lawgs
assbot: Bitcoin XT Post Mortem - Group Discussion ... ( )
asciilifeform: ty
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> is the guy even here ? << My vague recollection is back in the day he wasn't an MPOE-PR fan. Usagi critic sure but though MPOE was just a differnet evil. Then again I am drunk early and memory flawed.
mircea_popescu: i dun recall him ever running a "business"
BingoBoingo: Neither do I
mircea_popescu: well other than that who the fuck cares.
BingoBoingo: I think him or someone with a similar name tried to sell a big bar-o-silver for LTC
mircea_popescu: "bar of silver" and big somehow don't go together. what's silver, like a pizza an ounce ?
mircea_popescu: how big was this bar, like obama standing ?
BingoBoingo: I've seen the nick brg444 before though. Fuck you brg444 get in assWoT already. Also don't think I didn't see you shilling for 21's Po-Po plug.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Prolly 10 oz or so. Less than a steak but more than the average dick.
mircea_popescu: eh, rubber duckling's more than the average dick.
BingoBoingo: Are you sure, with China ascendant and all...
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, ada is melting my brain.
mircea_popescu: lol. btw, anyone remember the rubber duckling incident ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is that in a good way ? like, licking it on a cone ?
asciilifeform: mno
asciilifeform: in the bad way.
asciilifeform: like reactor.
shinohai: I wish mpoe-pr was still there, btctalk was worth reading then.
shinohai: She can certainly chew 'em up and spit 'em back out.
asciilifeform wishes there existed some other typesafe, statically typed language usable on a microcontroller
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> I wish mpoe-pr was still there, btctalk was worth reading then. << I think most people here value her health too much. When she left the Fillipenis wasn't so bad. Now it is pretty much all aids
BingoBoingo: General question, did seem to accurately capture the hypocrisy?
assbot: FDA Regulatory Overreach Allows Price Gouging | Qntra ... ( )
cazalla: do americans actually pay such prices or is it simply a case where end user pays $8.80 (as we do here) and the goverment/tax payer is fucked for the rest of it?
mircea_popescu: it's wordy and weak.
asciilifeform: cazalla: you get ZIP from usg unless you are part of the blessedly indigent class
mircea_popescu: granted it's a very difficult task because the issue is medicine (which is wordy by default) and the proposed jump somewhat distant.
BingoBoingo: Ah
cazalla: so what benefit is there in raising the price if no end user can actually buy it?
asciilifeform: cazalla: this normally requires - at the minimum - multiple years of tax receipts proving indigence
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Well consider before the price spike in question med was going for $13.50 per pill in the US and about $0.035 elsewhere
asciilifeform: cazalla: 'buy' is a flexible concept in usa. if you have 'health insurance', it gets milked out to its theoretical maximum, and then you pay (if you have lines of credit, will max'em out naturally)
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Obola care usually pays now
mircea_popescu: cazalla insurance has no option but to pay.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is demonstrably and abundantly false
mircea_popescu: understand the evil of a 3 party system. the user has no say. the doctor decides if it's needed or not, doesn't care about the cost.
mircea_popescu: insurance can not overrule doctor.
asciilifeform: often enough, 'insurer' (misnomer, these are not insurance co. in the traditional sense) will find a way to avoid paying
mircea_popescu: as a result, they'll be billed for a few millions, and react to it, gouging insurance prices by a few billion in a half decade.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> cazalla insurance has no option but to pay. << WIth the added danger that until Obola care came to all sorts of present evil could be vetoed by actual businesses
asciilifeform: or at the very least leave the diseased chump with $maxint bill
mircea_popescu: the societal cost of that cocky 20yo handpuppet is comparable to what obama costs.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> often enough, 'insurer' (misnomer, these are not insurance co. in the traditional sense) will find a way to avoid paying << This many times "insurer" is or was payment handler for actual business's healthcare claims
asciilifeform: often this process takes the form of 'we will pay, but for amputation rather than treatment'
mircea_popescu: and this is the main problem here : for ~20 years, the president was a sort of priviledged class, allowed to burn pieces off the country.
mircea_popescu: but apparently the situation is degrading and every entry level project manager can do this now.
mircea_popescu: or, to quote an anonymous derp, "are we comfortable with regulation introduced by a guy named bob ?"
BingoBoingo: Recent corporate medicine where available has been move employees to medicaid so state feels the pain instead.
mircea_popescu: which the feds love, let the state be bled dry.
BingoBoingo: By "states" often happy to pay deficit
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: understand, no one is eligible for 'medicaid' until whatever earthly goods he had, are properly and documentedly vultured away
asciilifeform: e.g., if you had title to a house, it is to be sold
asciilifeform: all of the 'turkey-buying dollars' are to be vacuumed up.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform we're talking employees here.
mircea_popescu: what goods.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah. Only for the retired. Incompletely employed eligible by default nao.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ever hear of 'medical bankruptcy' ?
mircea_popescu: the last "normal american" that had any value left in him was ambushed on a highway cca 2003.
BingoBoingo: No income retiree with assets must first bleed much before medicaid.
asciilifeform: it is entirely sop in usa.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure. I've done the chapter 7 thing myself about 5 years ago.
mircea_popescu: let's play the "guess the size of today's apache log for trilema".
asciilifeform: 300 MB
BingoBoingo: The obamacare new medicaid rules keep wealth tests for the retired and prevent incomes above X from medicaid, but low earners of nearly any net wealth get new medicaid
BingoBoingo: 173.47 MB
mircea_popescu: more.
shinohai: 500 mb
mircea_popescu: mmmm
mircea_popescu: ore.
BingoBoingo: 1.357 GB
mircea_popescu: still more.
mircea_popescu: it is 2.9 gb for the love of fuck.
BingoBoingo: 9.867 GB
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: understand that 'low earner' per usg is somebody with WHOLE YEAR OF TAX RECEIPT proving such.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Once again varies by state
asciilifeform: as in, if i get sacked i get to starve long before could ever show up as 'low earner'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not for you.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no shit!
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, you don't have to actually file.
asciilifeform: no file, no handouts
mircea_popescu: if you've not filed tax returns for past coupla years, you're still eligible
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: we were speaking of usg payola such as 'medicaid'
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: they get you for insurance fraud on top of whatever if you file later and it turns out you had moneys.
asciilifeform: it is strictly, strictly for registered members of the lumpen castes.
asciilifeform: also (elaborated for n00bs) usg's definition of 'has money' is ~strictly~ about income.
asciilifeform: whatever it is you blew it on, e.g., rent, is considered, in effect, discretionary
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: medicaid is for everyone. It just isn't for you... yet
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: by the time it is 'for me', it will consist of a complimentary cyanide
BingoBoingo: Prolly, but Michelle Obola will likely be president if there still is one
mircea_popescu: even with the very steam-punk techno-nazis cyanide was not for everyone.
asciilifeform: only for attendees of wagner concert !
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with strychnine
asciilifeform: costly.
mircea_popescu: cheaper than cyanide.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> what's wrong with strychnine << Occasionally results in angry hulk rather than cadaver
mircea_popescu: makes for great cinema!
BingoBoingo: Not really, Hulk movies are the super hero movies that don't make money
asciilifeform: folks outside of usadom rarely know just how much the handouts, 'safety nets', and other socialisms ~strictly~ exclude the non-lumpens.
mircea_popescu: well, people of the nordic system sorta-expect nordic system.
asciilifeform: recall tlp's piece re: how a history of normal employment is more or less a kiss of death in consideration for 'disability' pension
mircea_popescu: i would expect that probably changed.
mircea_popescu: no other explanation for all the third gender survival observed in the fields.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they are proper lumpens
asciilifeform: i.e. people who have never shown any symptoms of earning one's keep
asciilifeform: of having any inclination to.
mircea_popescu: this is not so. you're not born obese.
mircea_popescu: gotta work for it.
asciilifeform: obese or whatever other p.t. barnum deformity alone doesn't cut it.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i would expect that probably changed. << Only really changed in healthcare and only in a way that ascii must eat shoes for a year to be lumpen
asciilifeform: add several years for 'processing'
mircea_popescu: so how do the fatties survive ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> so how do the fatties survive ? << Two years of leaching off family and then "blackface"
asciilifeform: partly on handouts from blood relations, parasitism of sex partners (yes)
mircea_popescu: i dunno...
asciilifeform: very occasionally (at least for white usians) - meagre payola from state ('food stamps', etc)
mircea_popescu: dude... a girl that weighs what 5 weigh costs what 10 cost.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: costs how ?
asciilifeform: recall that in usa, the most calorific 'food' (i cannot bring myself to call it food) is hands-down the cheapest.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> dude... a girl that weighs what 5 weigh costs what 10 cost. << Ah, if girl can pregnancy.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26404 @ 0.00074358 = 19.6335 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: to the point that living on the dole virtually guarantees candidacy for that freakshow forum BingoBoingo reads
mircea_popescu introduces by reference the mortuary services piece.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> to the point that living on the dole virtually guarantees candidacy for that freakshow forum BingoBoingo reads << This 600-800 calories to the dollar is not an unrealistic target in USia
mircea_popescu: o.O
asciilifeform: there is a good reason why the traditional stereotype in usa is that 'poor' goes with 'fat'
BingoBoingo: ^
asciilifeform: and vice-versa
asciilifeform: they are almost inextricably linked.
mircea_popescu: pretty good, i think i barely get 5% of that.
mircea_popescu: srsly, a complete meal out of $3 ? no wonder inflation figures are down.
asciilifeform: if they could get people to run on diesel, they would.
mircea_popescu: better than thr 60s.
asciilifeform: 'complete meal' is not the best description here.
asciilifeform: it staves off caloric starvation, but just about everyone who makes a habit of these 'meals' suffers from one or more kinds of malnutrition.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> it staves off caloric starvation, but just about everyone who makes a habit of these 'meals' suffers from one or more kinds of malnutrition. << Yhis
punkman: how much pork does $3 buy?
BingoBoingo: In a McDonalds burger most calories come from the bun and its added sugar
BingoBoingo: <punkman> how much pork does $3 buy? << Little
mircea_popescu: i very much doubt there's any meat in mcdonalds&co.
asciilifeform: most of the calories these folks take in come from corn fructose.
mircea_popescu: looks to me a suspiciously like spraypainted soy
asciilifeform: which is added to literally everything where this is physically possible.
mircea_popescu goes off to verify this strange.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i very much doubt there's any meat in mcdonalds&co. << WHen I was there the actual "beef patty" seemed to be all beef though small. Just what part of beef...
mircea_popescu: The Demise of the High Fructose Corn Syrup Futures Contract: A Case Study
mircea_popescu: omfg it's gone ?
mircea_popescu: how the fuck do you price this shit now ?
asciilifeform: by crown fiat.
BingoBoingo: Now "Taco Bell" has a new flagship item selling for ~1 dollar/400 calories mostly textured soy protein, corn flour, and other corn
mircea_popescu: anywhay, let's say it's ~30 per lb.
mircea_popescu: if memory serves
asciilifeform: the other thing folks outside of usaschwitz sometimes do not know, is that the cost of the materials of the 'food' is only half the story.
asciilifeform: there is also the fact of the 'fast' in 'fast food'
asciilifeform: i.e. the victi^H^H^H^Hchum^H^H^customers are typically folks to whom ~preparing a meal~ is a foreign concept
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> how the fuck do you price this shit now ? << same way sub saharan africans can buy anti-malarials that before gouging cost $13.50 a pop in USia
asciilifeform: many do not even have access to something normal person would recognize as a kitchen.
mircea_popescu: at the usual 4 calories/gram,
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4 * 450 / 30
gribble: 60
mircea_popescu: seems it's 60 callories to the dollar eh ? what 600.
asciilifeform: a $1 bag of chips can easily go over 1000.
punkman: 4 calories per gram of corn syrup?
BingoBoingo: ;;google daredevil burrito nutrition facts
gribble: Taco Bell® | Nutrition Menu - Nutritionix: <>; Taco Bell® | Dare Devil Loaded Griller - Fiery Ghost Pepper: <>; Taco Bell® | Dare Devil Loaded Griller - Mild Chipotle: < (1 more message)
asciilifeform: ('chips' - or 'crisps' to other side of the ocean - are something like equal parts potato to synthetic rubbish.)
mircea_popescu: punkman generally glucides are 4, lipides 7.
punkman: hmm indeed, seemed low in my head
mircea_popescu: im sure there's differences (iirc hfcs is about half fructose half weird), but they are not that significant
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there;s something amiss here.
BingoBoingo: << 430 calorie item on the $1 menue an this is about medium energy density pauper food
assbot: Menu Calories and Nutrition Information | Taco Bell ... ( )
cazalla: but epic meal time is so cool!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: usians also drink liquid hfcs like water.
asciilifeform: in the form of various 'soda'
phf: just went to groceries, spent about $200 for ~maybe~ two weeks worth of food (chicken for just a couple of days and fruits for 3 days since it'll go bad), cashier kept asking questions "wow that's a lot of food! how many people? is this for a month? etc."
asciilifeform: recall the car full of rubbish ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but even in bulk that's 60 calories to the dollar.
mircea_popescu: phf cashier was trying to suck cock for sammiches.
asciilifeform pays similar
phf: mircea_popescu: that was my impression too
BingoBoingo: HFCS wouldn't even be a big issue if it wasn't for the fact that fructuse doesn't respond to insulin
mircea_popescu: "when do you get off" is teh right answer.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has prolly never seen an american cashier up close
mircea_popescu has asked usian cashiers out.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck do you fuck, artists ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform but even in bulk that's 60 calories to the dollar. << Math is either off or FCS is now the expensive component of trash food
cazalla: phf, was she hot?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: organic chemists
cazalla: because sounds like a good opportunity to invite her over for a proper meal
phf: cazalla: no
mircea_popescu: aww.
BingoBoingo: << perhaps solid companion to ship out with ever pogo
assbot: SP50 – Spondoolies-Tech ... ( )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: outside of a few odd exceptions which you and i will never meet, mining is of interest strictly to borderline imbeciles
cazalla: BingoBoingo, is that new?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is every bit the archetypical example of a sucker's game.
mircea_popescu: Power Supply10 x 1600 W Form Factor 11 U rack
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I spent a dollar for lunch yesterday at taco bell, I may be such an imbicel
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Seems so
phf: it's a coop with whole foods prices, they have a truly weird selection of cashiers, working there for a discount. i'd say trader joes has prettiest cashiers here, but that's a far away truck just to talk to some hipster girls. might as well go to a bar
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, you wanted irl chips with tolerances ? +-10%!
phf: *track
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> Power Supply 10 x 1600 W Form Factor 11 U rack << reasonably even out power savings from pogo
mike_c: mining is a good way to learn though
mike_c: get your hands dirty a bit
asciilifeform: a (former) colleague of mine bought something quite like this, at the time i had access to a cabinet with 'free' mains current, let him plug it in. it blew out the breakers.
mircea_popescu: i also don't share asciilifeform's lowview of mining.
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as strategic mining.
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Also with saner p2pool could provide decent safety net
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did say 'exceptions'
mircea_popescu: ;;gentime 110000000
gribble: The average time to generate a block at 110000000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 59335351233.9, is 3 weeks, 5 days, 19 hours, 33 minutes, and 13 seconds
asciilifeform: some folks just want clean-burning coin without transacting in usd with anyone.
asciilifeform: and don't much care what it fixed-costs.
mircea_popescu: the case for owning one : you can in general expect your own tx to confirm in a month, n omatter what.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: only if you regularly add units to keep up with diff
mike_c: BingoBoingo: i don't know about safety net, we couldn't even protect altcoin
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: only if you regularly add units to keep up with diff << Then get four. You'll get at least 1 conf a month for a year
asciilifeform: thing is, 'strategic' mining in the sense of 'protect' pretty much guaranteed to fail - because 'customs inspector's theorem' applies
asciilifeform: you have to 'get lucky every day', he - 'only has to get lucky once'
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> thing is, 'strategic' mining in the sense of 'protect' pretty much guaranteed to fail - because 'customs inspector's theorem' applies << Host in Sinaloa datacenter
asciilifeform: enemy only needs to supply a temporary burst to kill you.
asciilifeform: it is not enough to 'have miner', you need to control a sizable ~fraction of planetary hash~
BingoBoingo: <mike_c> BingoBoingo: i don't know about safety net, we couldn't even protect altcoin << Altcoin had to die for our sins of believing in a monetized testnet for a few months
asciilifeform: to count as 'strategic'
mike_c: hehe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35050 @ 0.00074649 = 26.1645 BTC [+] {5}
BingoBoingo: qntra gets all the socialed medials
assbot: Conspiracy ... ( )
assbot: lol my thesis: Watching Disney movies is less fun when you pay... ... ( )
mircea_popescu: wasn;t this the argument against prostitution since forever ?
mircea_popescu: somehow the same derps don't figure paying detracts from the quality of medical practice.
mircea_popescu: "i wouldn't dare take a free abortion, but who knwos what evil paid fuck-professionals may do!!"
mircea_popescu: best cognitive dissonance ever.
assbot: Checking your bits ... ( )
punkman: "looks like the ad network I was using isn't going to pay me for the last 2 months of ads I placed on my site. Which kind of sucks."
BingoBoingo: !up tvmcsoqenc
danielpbarron: << yeh some of the girls at the stores I frequent are pretty cute
assbot: Logged on 24-09-2015 02:03:33; *: mircea_popescu has asked usian cashiers out.
BingoBoingo: << Lumpen cuisine
assbot: ... ( )
punkman: "My gf don't know this but everytime we fuck I put $1 in a jar & thats how much imma spend on her for her bday. So far she gettin a mcchicken"
BingoBoingo: lkol
punkman: "mayo soup" ehrmagerd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12315 @ 0.00074175 = 9.1347 BTC [-]
phf: eerily reminiscent of prison "spread"
phf: ;;google prison spread
gribble: How to Cook Prison Spread - YouTube: <>; 10 Revolting Foods That People Have Made in Prison - io9: <>; Jail House Recipes: <>
punkman: << I had similar feelings but I assumed this was because I lacked experience in low-level language
assbot: Logged on 24-09-2015 01:06:52; asciilifeform: unrelatedly, ada is melting my brain.
assbot: ... ( )
punkman: "anyone old enough to remember the PopUp wars knows this ad crap won't stop until it breaks the web, and gets blocked by browsers." << except you can still get popups, because fuck browsers
assbot: ... ( )
BingoBoingo: punkman: Then change your browser
BingoBoingo: And still moar from the white trash beat
BingoBoingo: Also Obolacation
assbot: ... ( )
assbot: ... ( )
BingoBoingo: "Dunn did highlight positive news, including a growing and diverse student enrollment."
BingoBoingo: !up brg444
assbot: Skin Integrity in Critically Ill Obese Patients ... ( )
brg444: !register 4A0363951AFA090B6C221787E2F23DB84A63EC22
assbot: Searching for key with fingerprint: 4A0363951AFA090B6C221787E2F23DB84A63EC22. This may take a few moments.
assbot: No valid OpenPGP data found on
BingoBoingo: "Incontinence of bowel and bladder in obese patients is a common cause of perineal dermatitis which can increase tissue friability and place patients at higher risk for skin breakdown."
BingoBoingo: brg444 Where does your public key sleep?
brg444: looks to be alive there?
assbot: Search results for '0x4a0363951afa090b6c221787e2f23db84a63ec22' ... ( )
BingoBoingo: Well make it spread
cazalla: BingoBoingo, quit fat shaming me into losing the dad-bod
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Mebbe if you had more dangerous wildlife than abbos and spiders you'd change your mind on your own
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Also it isn't really dad-bod if you are actually a dad
mircea_popescu: !up brg444
phf: punkman: clearly russia, and from what i hear it's still a common practice. taught me to always carefully observe the weighing. i also have a 100g weight that i sometimes bring with me, in istanbul at spice bazaar for example i ran into much disagreement about standards and measures. a less conspicuous trick is to weigh a litre of milk, or somesuch
mircea_popescu: brg444 did you just upload it ?
brg444: yea. looking into that now but tbf this is sorta new to me. using this stupid gui and it doesn't seem to want to connect to for some obscure reason.
cazalla: BingoBoingo, sorta sad in a way but there aren't many abos left, all the drunks and petrol sniffers are at best half-caste
brg444: attempting to submit from there gives me "error handling request. exception raised"
BingoBoingo: cazalla: WHat do you think happened to the Aztec, their Navajo slaves, and the liberal Cherokee?
brg444: *from there
assbot: MIT PGP Key Server ... ( )
BingoBoingo: brg444: WHat ciphers did you use to generate the public key?
punkman: would make sense for assbot to grab dpasted keys like deedbot did
brg444: followed pete's guide here: so 4096 RSA it is I believe
assbot: Please To PGP (Guide for Linux, OS X, Windows) | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
BingoBoingo: brg444: generated with what verison of GPG on what OS?
mircea_popescu: <punkman> would make sense for assbot to grab dpasted keys like deedbot did << word. the shitserver dependency is turning out to be a pain. for kakobrekla konsideration.
asciilifeform: weren't there gonna be a skstron for #b-a ?
asciilifeform: as in, separate thing
BingoBoingo: ^ mats
punkman: has anyone managed to register on the first try?
mircea_popescu: there was, at some point.
mircea_popescu: punkman yes. people generally do (see recently psomething fellow)
asciilifeform: or is this now 37th on the list of things-asciilifeform-has-to-write-in-ada
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform making a key server for a basically defunct implementation of pgp not really much of a priority
mircea_popescu: first, we rewritre gpg.
mircea_popescu: properl;y, this time.
asciilifeform: what do you think i've been doing.
mircea_popescu: fucking organic chemistrists ?
mircea_popescu: how should i know!
brg444: GPG 1.2 on OSX 10.7.5
punkman: asciilifeform: made some conflicting patches earlier and got the deconflict thing working
asciilifeform: punkman: neato
asciilifeform: btw, for anyone else contemplating pgp, the retardation really flows from the protocol
BingoBoingo: <brg444> GPG 1.2 on OSX 10.7.5 << The correct answer to this question was "Fuck you for asking" but since you raised the issue something in the 1.4 series may work better. GPG 2 is right out of the game.
asciilifeform: it is possible in principle to write a provably-correct implementation of a subset of rfc4880, but the result is still horrendously ugly.
brg444: let's see here
brg444: !register 0x4a0363951afa090b6c221787e2f23db84a63ec22
assbot: That does not seem to be a valid fingerprint.
brg444: !register 4a0363951afa090b6c221787e2f23db84a63ec22
assbot: Searching for key with fingerprint: 4A0363951AFA090B6C221787E2F23DB84A63EC22. This may take a few moments.
assbot: Key 4A63EC22 / "Alexandre Bergeron <>" successfully imported.
assbot: Registration successful.
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00690000 BTC on 'No' - BTC to reach $1000 or more in 2015 -
brg444: well there we go
BingoBoingo: !rate brg444 1 new, not a lost cause yet
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
BingoBoingo: !v assbot:BingoBoingo.rate.brg444.1:b16f55b4ab1b8146f179ef6828c942cb7a6134f411dddef478a4d29ce5cb2b2d
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for brg444 with note: new, not a lost cause yet
BingoBoingo: brg444: You can !up yourself nao in assbot pm
brg444: great, that was long time due. I do think I was closing in on the mandatory 6 months reading off the logs
brg444: thx
mircea_popescu: more power to ya.
BingoBoingo: Well, that's rare then. Most people now seem to register and hopefully later fuck off to 6 months of lawgs
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm not wholly convinced that 'key server' is a right thing at all.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the protocol has to be restated and /me does not feel equal to the task
mircea_popescu: me either.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: consider, for instance, that there is nothing whatsoever preventing a galactic spam flood
mircea_popescu: immutable.
asciilifeform: key set really ought to be a thing synced once a year at mircea_popescuconf
mircea_popescu: if so inclined, i could just set a box too old to be bitcoin node to generate and register gpg sigs
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: trivial.
mircea_popescu: hopefully they got 8gb blocks.
asciilifeform: 1liner.
brg444: BingoBoingo: about 21inc. can't say I am not guilty of charge :/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: one example of something which Must Die is 'subkeys'
asciilifeform: it is an atrocity.
asciilifeform: one modulus, one key, as the gods intended.
asciilifeform: the other major atrocity is the fingerprint (yes).
asciilifeform: ought to be able to include any subset of a pubmod with a signature or ciphertext - up to all of it, if i want.
brg444: mircea_popescu: funny you mention iCEBREAKER, was just having a chat with him the other day as he was inquiring about b-a thinking I was already in seeing as regularly quote content from trilema/logs. will let him know about your "interest".
asciilifeform: the third and all-encompassing atrocity of rfc2440/4880 is the idiot cruft pertaining to 'new' vs 'old' packet formats, the magical constants specifying largely antiquated block ciphers and hash algos, etc.
asciilifeform: more or less the whole document.
asciilifeform: another annoyance is the inclusion of zlib.
asciilifeform: yes, there is a 'do i want zlib' flag in pubkey, but EVERYONE here has it set.
asciilifeform: traditional whizzzdum is that it somehow improves seek00rity by making the plaintext less structured.
asciilifeform: (except that it very clearly adds structure of another kind)
asciilifeform: aaand is an attack vector of its own.
asciilifeform: (not only in the added complexity of a zlib decoder, but in the fact that a message's actual length remains unknown until your start shitting it out)
asciilifeform: i could go on. and on.
asciilifeform: but i won't, because the rfc is so retarded that it will kill your brain cells just by being told of it.
asciilifeform: pgp is just another one of those ancient workhorses that begs for the glue factory, but there is NO ALTERNATIVE to it
asciilifeform: just as there is no alternative to, e.g., ada
asciilifeform: (will somebody PLEASE wake me up if they learn of an alternative to ada?!!!)
asciilifeform: pretty please ?
punkman: you'll be sleeping ad libitum before that happens
BingoBoingo: !up brg444
asciilifeform: punkman:
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 01:41:14; asciilifeform: 'Bien Darkmans then, Bouse Mort and Ken The bien Coves bings awast, On Chates to trine by Rome-Coves dine, For his long lib at last.'
asciilifeform: everybody 'sleeps ad libitum' eventually.
lobbes: BingoBoingo: daww you should have let him !up himself
punkman: asciilifeform: exactly :P
BingoBoingo: lobbes: Not everyone handles it the first time
BingoBoingo: brg444: Seriously !up yourself
brg444: just did, do I get voiced down automatically after a certain time?
punkman: you gotta !v after !up
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination -
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, 73 connexions on zoolag, 41 - on bucephalus.
asciilifeform: these are just short of bursting at the seams.
BingoBoingo: !down brg444
asciilifeform: welcome brg444
brg444: thanks.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: << lulzy. one of yours ?
assbot: Network Snapshot - Bitnodes ... ( )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Mebbe...

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