Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-08-08 | 2015-08-10 → ↓
phf: i only vaguely remember that talk, because i listened to it under the influence, and at some point i was convinced that i could perform magical rituals, and the only thing keeping me from fundamentally affecting reality was years of societal conditioning that i could at the time overcome. i think i was also at some point convinced that bush was a great grandson of aliester crowley by way of pauline pierce, and that he's going to bring about
phf: the appocalypse. the details are a bit hazy
phf: *that i could not
ag3nt_zer0: yeah... you ever look into the jack parsons/crowley/hubbard threesome?
ag3nt_zer0: pretty weird considering what hubbard went on to do
ag3nt_zer0: in Kali haha
phf: i'm sure hubbard just lifted whatever he could from his time at the agape lodge
phf: parsons is quite a character, there's a nice writeup about him and the whole crowley/hubbard connection in "apocalypse culture"
phf: though i'm not sure how much i want to put to public record on this subject. i made some interesting friends when i moved to this country, unfortunately this whole culture seemed to have died out. even when i was enjoying it, it was mostly archival work
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29950 @ 0.00059124 = 17.7076 BTC [-] {3}
hanbot: !up n6
hanbot: n6: get in the wot, don't pester people via pm, and forget about any braindamaged notions of "lobbying MP" you've cooked up for yourself.
mircea_popescu: !up onlooker
mircea_popescu: trinque actually trump has been rich for a while.
onlooker: hi there, would you like to share your thoughts on copyright? I've only come across your writings today and found them most entertaining.
mircea_popescu: iirc lost it all in a dubious las vegas casinos transaction with fucking merv griffin.
mircea_popescu: onlooker it's complicated.
trinque: mircea_popescu: one thing occured to me this evening re: trump. he's telling the other people running to their faces that he's bought and paid for all of them in the past.
trinque: I love that.
trinque: mod6: putting that email together
n6: hanbot: sorry I lost my key(Not a person), still trying to fix my lsub issue on gentoo before I make a new one.
onlooker: lol, well thats no surprise, governments specialize in making simple things complicated
mircea_popescu: it's not really true. man's no rockerfeller. son of a middling queens landlord is all.
asciilifeform: i don't see how it 'is complicated' at all. folks who wanna be paid when i copy a number, get a raging hardon for the state (tm) (r) when it makes noises of promise to make it happen
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ever been privy to something on the understanding you won't be sharing it ?
mircea_popescu: do you propose to do away with the POSSIBLITY of that understanding ?
asciilifeform: nah. just object to this kind of thing happening in a consumer setting
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, then... it's complicated.
asciilifeform: where the negotiating leverage on one side of the table is nil
mircea_popescu: as usual, consumers have no business in any of the places they stuff themselve.s
onlooker: I don't think copyright is the same thing as keeping a secret, if you keep a secret and you keep it well then you don't need copyright
hanbot: n6 alright, so then make that your top priority.
asciilifeform: when i buy a piece of shit from a street merchant i ain't taking no oath.
asciilifeform: he wants oath, can fuck himself
mircea_popescu: that's between you two.
mircea_popescu: so then...
asciilifeform: 'click-through oath!!!'
onlooker: if you fail to keep a secret they you have two choices, you can blame yourself for not keeping it well, or you can blame me and try to enforce copyright
mircea_popescu: don't be coming to me to relieve you of oaths you took on the theory that you shouldn't have and if you were a better man you wouldn't have.
asciilifeform: except i didn't
mircea_popescu: then i don't need to have an oppinion on it.
n6: hanbot: thanks I will get on that right now.
asciilifeform: well somebody mentioned 'copyright'
asciilifeform: which as i understand is the perverse concept that somebody gets to bang on my door and demand gold for copying a number
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1231425 << jesus definitely was a socialist. something something all people something.
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 22:47:43; ag3nt_zer0: something about the jesus would have been a socialist shit
onlooker: mircea popescu, you don't need to have an opinion about the color of you shit either lol...
mircea_popescu: there's a trilema article about that, actually.
asciilifeform: 'tis one thing if i was given a secret, swore an other. entirely other thing when i find a number scribbled on the sidewalk and decide to scribble it elsewhere
asciilifeform: *an oath
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform supposedly it wasn't on the sidewalk.
n6: trinque, asciilifeform: Would you be able to point me to a place where I can learn how to build lsub on my mac then put it on a usb drive and move it to gentoo so I can get wireless working and make a key?
mircea_popescu: consider the controlling case, as i opposed it to diametric s question back in the day. so quentin tarantino comes in here all upsed about you copying his latest movie. what do i say, "fuck off qt, if you made a movie you didn'ty make that movie" ?
asciilifeform: n6: nope
mircea_popescu: i ain't saying that.
trinque: n6: I'm making a script that puts gentoo on a stick, or any block device really
trinque: not done yet, let ya know
trinque: mod6: sent
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd say ~yes~. 'find a revenue model that doesn't rely on armed thugs breaking down my door for copying a fucking number, and i never signed any contracts with this fella'
mircea_popescu: still his movie.
asciilifeform: he can beg on the streets if he wants.
mircea_popescu: he'll probably go to syria and smuggle arms.
asciilifeform: syria needs arms.
mircea_popescu: so you're gonna pick careers for tarantino now ?
mircea_popescu: awful lot of work.
asciilifeform: he can do honest work, like this, instead of trying to monkey with my bits.
mircea_popescu: i thought we were aiming to avoid makework.
asciilifeform: (yes, the bits are ~mine~, they are on my disk)
asciilifeform: keeping fella's hands out of my arse != 'choosing careers for'
mircea_popescu: (ftr, the arms smuggle thing did happen. almost quite to syria. for 10 points, name the famous french poet who did this in his teens)
asciilifeform: french?
onlooker: I asked if you had an opinion, from the perspective of someone who seems intelligent and uses bigger words than me. I appreciate you taking the time to reply at all, I don't mind if you have no opinion, just I hoped you would see copyright as the elitists use to tell poor people they are not allowed to think
asciilifeform: 'cause my first thought was byron
n6: trinque: how would that help me? can I build it from the source already on the pc?
mircea_popescu: nah, byron was a poseur.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unrelated, when did anyone suddenly open a kindergarten in here ?
asciilifeform: i must've missed it
onlooker: *as something the elitests use..."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think it always was half that.
mircea_popescu: onlooker i'm quite famously elitist.
asciilifeform: n6: since nobody else is standing up to do it, i will tell you the bad news: it appears that you are not yet ready for a source-based linux system
asciilifeform: n6: you will have to think and study on your own for a while.
asciilifeform: n6: trying to get hand-fed through this gnarly and unpleasant process will be frustrating both to you and to others
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mircea_popescu: doesn't seem he knows how this self study thing works, hm ?
n6: asciilifeform: Yes I understand that and its awful to read for everyone else. sorry
n6: mircea_popescu: how can you self study if you don't even know what to look for?
asciilifeform: n6: please consider reading kernighan and pike's 'the unix programming environment'
asciilifeform: just to get a feel of what it is like
asciilifeform: write, build some simple programs
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1231442 << it might be that you don't know what an experiment actually is.
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 22:53:48; ag3nt_zer0: i did that damn "visualize a quarter" experiment for a couple weeks and whne i finally found one, it was glued to the pavement
n6: asciilifeform: Ok
asciilifeform: (this is a thin book, 1980s, inexpensive)
mircea_popescu: but it's not just a "hey, something to try out"
onlooker: mircea popescu, yes, but you appear to be of the more logical bent than the standard elitist. Take for example your claim the paying for good things is how we get good things, this may be logical, but in fact the way the world currently works stealing good things has proven to be far more effective, Bankers are elitist too, would you put yourself in the same category as them?
phf: rimbaud naturally
mircea_popescu: onlooker i am de facto a banker, but i doubt the term has any substantial meaning to you past "those meanie assholes that make the house i want cost more than i can afford".
mircea_popescu: phf win.
mircea_popescu: the argument re stealing is actually ancient. it was articulated by the pillars of roman thought, of all people.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless... not as simple as all that.
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mircea_popescu: jesus wtf happened to this log.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm getting flashbacks now of my number theory lecture, where we had that gurl
asciilifeform: BUT PROF HOW DO YOU DO IT
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2014 03:17:34; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if i didn't know any better, i'd imagine we went to uni together. we had 'the same' chick! she bedeviled our number theory prof with at least a hundred very boneheaded questions every lecture. he seethed, boiled, but couldn't throw her out. why? 'registered special needs.' (going for math degree!) she even got unlimited time on exams.
mircea_popescu: eh, i just had the peanut chicken you perhaps remember, and then went for the nude entertainment thing. hard to bother me for a while.
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asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu has a much thicker pedagogic skin to begin with, i dare say
asciilifeform: like rhinoceros
mircea_popescu: i'll tell you waht it is. i get to sometimes beat the everliving shit out of the students.
mircea_popescu: it soothes a psyche an' brings balance.
mod6: trinque: thanks!
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mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1231494 << this is actually a great fucking point. buncha immature twerps acting out their life like they're in some sort of movie.
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 23:16:19; cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1231116 <<< mobile phones mang, it's not just you + her on the beach but you + 1000 beta faggots who follow her twitter/facebook/instagram + her on the beach
onlooker: mircea popescu, exactly and I wouldn't put you in the same category either despite your claim that you are a defacto banker. Anyway, I won't pay for your work, despite admiring your lovely way with language. I just feel that the one thing you miss is that you are not the only one able to come up with genius. Did one person invent the light globe? Copyright seems to say yes, but then the history of the victors is nothing new
mircea_popescu: in this view the nsa spying is more a required public service, like emergency health care.
mircea_popescu: onlooker copyright does not refer to inventions.
onlooker: at least Bitcoin is giving a larger voice to some
asciilifeform: wai wut ?!
asciilifeform perhaps lacks the lsd to follow this thread
mircea_popescu: which of the i dunno, three or so
asciilifeform: the 'bitcoin gives voice'
mircea_popescu: lol irony
mircea_popescu: !up onlooker
mircea_popescu: well, it gives voice to someone somewhere i'm sure.
asciilifeform: the 'gurl with 1000 beta' is pretty clear, though it is a case of '1,2,3,infinity'
mircea_popescu: so it is.
asciilifeform: consider a circa-1990s email box
asciilifeform: it is a thing that barely exists outside of the chore of shoveling spamola
asciilifeform: ('98, let's say specifically)
mod6: trinque: sig verifies & patch applies cleanly. thx again.
onlooker: mircea, if you are distinguishing between copyright and patents it seems a petty distinction to me. I put them in the same category, both intend to punish people for copying thoughts and ideas
mircea_popescu: when did knuth give it up, 86 ?
asciilifeform: '89 iirc but not related to spam
asciilifeform: just to the chore of interacting with people
mircea_popescu: onlooker one attaches to form, the other attaches to concept. this is a fundamental distinction in any case. see the earlier thread re lost 1800 tech know-how, and the russian z80s.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you perceive a difference there ?
onlooker: askiilifeform, perhaps I should say math is giving voice to the poor, because it doesn't distinguish my data from yours
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: between the chore of shoveling '98 spam and the chore of answering mail from other maths folks ?
asciilifeform: yes, difference. (though i appreciate knuth's choice)
mircea_popescu: what is it ? lower bar for one group ?
asciilifeform: one is people and the other is cockroaches
asciilifeform: both 'kingdom animalia', sure
mircea_popescu: mebbe not to knuth. but anyway
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 23:32:08; mats: bet it's delicious with soy sauce and ginger
onlooker: it only distinguishes correct data from incorrect
asciilifeform: onlooker: 'math' as this mythological 'sword in the stone' that 'anyone!!!111!!' can just pick up and use, is unfortunately a fiction
mircea_popescu: onlooker how are the poor getting correct data iyo ?
mircea_popescu: especially with no copyright. they just get cut out of the loop entirely.
mircea_popescu: me and five people will see the cannes films and poor people can watch reruns of "best ads of superbowl" over at denny's.
asciilifeform: onlooker: consider, for instance, the predicament of somebody trying to correctly implement plain old rsa algo.
asciilifeform: if you think that you can do it from a textbook, think again.
mircea_popescu: to everyone's benefit, this, of course. but anyway.
asciilifeform: and rsa is ~much~ simpler than, e.g., bitcoin.
asciilifeform: yet virtually anyone who has ever done it, had to saw open six different existing incarnations and study
mircea_popescu: what textbooks ? there are no textbooks because why sell shit for 10 dollars
asciilifeform: and ~still~ had even chances of blowing own head off
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'textbooks' in this case being - once you reject the outright drivel and pediwikia printouts - dour and very terse, encyclopaedic overview of the basic maths, typically
mircea_popescu: which strictly exists because of the whole IP convention.
onlooker: I have a son, he's 9 months old, I have to change his nappy, he doesn't respect math, time, copyright or patent. He's poor. My nephew is 12, he has no money of his own, but he has a computer, mines his own coins, and although they are not worth much, he's able to participate, He can't participate in Banking, he's not even allowed to use his own account
asciilifeform: onlooker: 'participate' ?!!!
asciilifeform: what, precisely, is ^that^ good for ?!
assbot: Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1IANg6N )
asciilifeform: onlooker: there's a fella who's been sitting in front of the u.s. 'white house' since 1982.
asciilifeform: he is 'participating' in politics ?
onlooker: who are the vast majority of the poor? well, I would argue that those under 15 in the USSA have the biggest skin in the economic game despite being currently mostly excluded from it lol... Crypto could/may change that
asciilifeform: pray tell, how
mircea_popescu: turns out a bunch of pakis trafficked white girls as young as 12 by the thousands, for the reason of being white. which was concealed by the brits.
mircea_popescu: onlooker under 15 what, yo ?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: could've sworn this was in the logz
mircea_popescu: if it was i missed it. but really, 20 years, 1-2k girls, this broadly speaking is on par with the results of the serbs.
asciilifeform: except that it was done by the darlings of the lizards
onlooker: mircea popescu, ask yourself this, would bitcoin work without copyright, if the answer is yes, then it's not a requirement for ideas to be shared while keeping an ownership record
asciilifeform: 'what, my dog ate your baby? fuck your baby'
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asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-08-2015#1231861 << this is doomed to come back at any rate. i.e. how mozart et al played.
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 05:23:00; mircea_popescu: me and five people will see the cannes films and poor people can watch reruns of "best ads of superbowl" over at denny's.
mircea_popescu: onlooker understand something : you got no leg into the world of ideas. i'm simply not sharing. copyright is there to give you a (slight) chance, nothing else.
asciilifeform: for all i know, this happened already long ago
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu and the 4 other mircea_popescus are watching the good shit, while from my perch it looks like the entire western culture went poof
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform earlier at restaurant i gestured for whatever small thing, girl ran off to do, whole tableful of idiotic argentine she-derps sat agape.
mircea_popescu: the unfuckable jersey wearing 30something set, too.
mircea_popescu: and i didn't even charge them for the copyright.
asciilifeform: surprised they paid attention!
onlooker: let me try another angle, would bitcoin work if it wasn't copyrighted? And if the answer is yes, does it follow that this means we can share ideas while keeping a record of who owns what without requiring this antiquated legal system?
mircea_popescu: prolly won't happen again.
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asciilifeform: i can sit in a restaurant in dc with pet and loudly consider 'let's bring back hitler and make him 300 metres tall and feed him prime jew rib' and no one notices
mircea_popescu: onlooker i don't think the antiquated legal system being retained was at any point contemplated.
mircea_popescu: there's articles about this on trilema, you'll get to them in due time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform words do not speak as loudly as actions!
asciilifeform: the sensory bubbles in which u.s. folk walk around in at public places are astonishingly fine
onlooker: so you don't think copyright, patent's or the legal system are antiquated?
trinque: read the logs, guy.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thing is, you gotta contend with the fact that to many folks, 'copyright' ~means~ britney and microshit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mayhap you have the upper hand with that yeah
asciilifeform: we aren't getting mozart for the bargain, no
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i know where he's coming from. but what do you want me to say.
asciilifeform: if it were mozart - i would see the other perspective, yes
mircea_popescu: the horse's still not slow just because all these donkeys
asciilifeform: never seen the horse with own eyes, and don't expect to live to.
mircea_popescu remembers in horror the one and only boston symphonic orchestra session he went to
asciilifeform: what was wrong with it?
mircea_popescu: fucking twerps.
asciilifeform: american symphonics are on par with the rest of third world
mircea_popescu: they played some modern shit. fucking insult to civilisation.
asciilifeform: i'll have you know that at my university they play (on symphonic orchestra, yes!).... 'super mario.'
asciilifeform: (and other related)
asciilifeform: obligatory:
assbot: Futurama - Classical Music - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MURcp0 )
onlooker: I just feel that if we actually shared ideas instead of hiding them from one another the world would be a smarter place. I realise the thinking required to get from here to there is a gargantuan leap
asciilifeform: onlooker: log.bitcoin-assets.com
asciilifeform: onlooker: yearz of ideaz, 100% gratis
asciilifeform: your local university library, too
asciilifeform: or did you have something else in mind.
onlooker: ah, they are old idea lol... they are a good start no doubt, but it's not really my point. Anyway I don't expect the world to see things as I do, if everyone agreed with me I'd be worried anyway lol
asciilifeform: onlooker: i for one would like to know what you had in mind
asciilifeform: i.e. what sort of ideas do you suppose are hidden from you by copyrasty
mats: lol
mircea_popescu: onlooker you're missing the part where i'm not sharing ideas with you. because who are you.
mircea_popescu: without copyrights, intellectual ghetto is a certainty.
asciilifeform: !up onlooker
mircea_popescu: with copyrights, intellectual ghetto is merely an unfortunate side effect.
asciilifeform: intellectual ghetto cuts both ways.
mircea_popescu: so they say.
asciilifeform: (see the adelberger thread)
onlooker: asciilifeform thanks for asking, I guess a lot of the ideas I'm interested in homeopathic and medical stuff. There's a lot of "cures" out there, and so much of it is behind paywalls. I don't really have a plan for how to change it, I just expect it change for the same reason I expect the money to end.
mircea_popescu: in any case, there's no rescuing the poor (and it's a morally dubious proposition to even try). let instead those of the poor that are there undeservedly claw their way out. over many generations of belaboured effort, ideally.
asciilifeform head-desks
phf: ^
mats: wat, homeopathic medicine
mircea_popescu: wait. someone seriously imagines they're missing something by not reading random homeopatic tracts ?
onlooker: because despite excellent job adults have done conditioning young people to be slaves, there are some who just won't submit
mircea_popescu: when hiring a psychic, always hire the cheapest.
asciilifeform: where's that 'sanity dogma' piece by mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: how old are you onlooker ?
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onlooker: mircea popescu they will only be the cheapest if you stop asking lol
onlooker: old enough to remember when the POTUS was admired as the leader of the free world, and young enough to hope I live to see the last POTUS haha
onlooker: why do you ask? I'm 40 ish
mircea_popescu: well because for a moment the slave thing and a previous comment sort-of made it look possible that you were 15
onlooker: mircea popescu, "the poor" is arbitrary anyway, I'm not suggested they even need rescuing rather they the playing field will be leveled whether the rich or elites help them or not
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-08-2015#1231604 << because it was there first and thus was heard of first and thus etc.
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 03:20:47; asciilifeform: i STILL don't understand why just about everybody insists on building stator.
mircea_popescu: onlooker nah, the pendulum is swinging the other way. the poor had it way better than anyone would have expected, after the ww2 carnage. it is going away, it is perhaps never coming back to this degree.
onlooker: I wouldn't even try to argue morality, math is the only morality I respect, if you can call it that
mircea_popescu: expect a millenium of actual slavery for the plebs and not be disappointed by the events.
asciilifeform: 'enjoy this dildo, but it has some splinters.' 'mmm, good, but oww' 'here's one with no splinters, laquered' '..... ow'
mircea_popescu: you know what's also fascinating in the same vein asciilifeform ? not everyone's courting the most beautiful girl in town! in a frictionless infospace they would! nevertheless...
asciilifeform: except that this 'gurl' can be in everyone's bed
asciilifeform: just for the asking.
mircea_popescu: like any other.
asciilifeform: 'any other' only works like this if you're mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: you'd be surprised.
onlooker: I said I had a son, anyway 15 hey, I guess my grammar and smaller vocab could be an excuse to think that
mircea_popescu: srsly, you need what, 15 minutes of her time tops ? she's got the whole day.
mircea_popescu: onlooker how did you get the idea homeopathy does something, anyway ?
asciilifeform: 'srsly, how hard to build reactor! dig some shit out of the ground, rearrange it a bit'
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 03:41:54; pete_dushenski: being a lab rat isn't world's worst job after all
pete_dushenski: well, stan's maze then.
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 03:47:30; mod6: so it wouldnt be a waste of my time to proceed in that direction?
onlooker: mircea, homeopathy is practiced by a wide variety and includes a vast array of alternative medicine, I'm not suggesting it all works or doesn't. I'm just pointing out that it's difficult to investigate alternative claims when I have to hack around paywalls that I don't respect
mircea_popescu: i thought homeopathy was that thing where diluting things makes them work.
mircea_popescu: this idea seems to be borne by your talk of vast arrays ?
onlooker: mirciea popescu, now your making fun of me lol
ben_vulpes: just you?
onlooker: perhaps I should have made it more vague and said "alternative medicine"
mircea_popescu: i was actually earnest. but anyway, yes, say alternative medicine, get fewer people in wtf state.
ben_vulpes: <pete_dushenski> ;;later tell mod6 http://dpaste.com/3YFS9YV.txt << test2 logs for ya << that's the whole log?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: clearly not. just the end parts
ben_vulpes: <phf> re was explained in grant morrison's INVISIBLES series. get your facts, straight son, straight from the source. fnord. << i think there are characters missing from this line but i can't tell
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> i STILL don't understand why just about everybody insists on building stator. << adoption takes a few weeks, have you seen the android numbers?
ben_vulpes: unless you're apple and can forcibly cram your changes down the world's throat, you have to wait for the world to catch up to your releases.
onlooker: Ok so alternative medicine, homeopaths are where generally recognised as doctors prior to the AMA and big pharmas takeover of american medicine. If I'm telling you something you don't know I'll feel special :)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the funny part isn't that folks didn't go straight there, but that 'here is a pill against your headaches from last month+.' '.....'
trinque: lots of people were wrongly recognized as all kinds of things in the past.
trinque: onlooker: ^
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: and what happened with that db locks patch of yours
ben_vulpes: those patches
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suppose this is when we say that the log is both free and good reading and call it a day.
ben_vulpes: !down onlooker
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: folks who were reading the fucking log, had zero problems.
ben_vulpes: i'm here for ten minutes
ben_vulpes: patches and submissions to the ml must stand on their own.
mircea_popescu: we should be in a syncronised swimming team ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: log is not adequate documentation.
asciilifeform: folks who somehow thought that the ml has meaning outside of #b-a, and happened to show up and read ml in precisely the wrong three minutes - may have scratched their head in frustration
asciilifeform: and had to patch again, rebuild.
ben_vulpes: "corrected" with no further context is useless.
ben_vulpes: USELESS.
ben_vulpes: why was previous broken?
ben_vulpes: why is current fixed?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25673 @ 0.00058481 = 15.0138 BTC [-] {5}
asciilifeform: since ben_vulpes is unhappy with this pattern, the next time ~every~ therealbitcoin node grinds to a halt on account of some shitgnomery, i won't be staying up at 3am releasing a patch.
asciilifeform: will let ben_vulpes do it.
ben_vulpes: eh relax
asciilifeform: srsly context was in the log. and the first time anybody asked, i linked to it.
asciilifeform: i would dearly love to write a lengthy treatise to the ml on every single occasion
asciilifeform: but sadly i work in uranium mine and - not so much time, energy.
asciilifeform: incidentally there is nothing shameful in writing a commentary to another fella's patch
ben_vulpes: somewhere between s.nsa poems and zilc h in email body is some utility i'm sure
ben_vulpes: oh i'm aware, have written at least one taludic entry
ben_vulpes: anyways, do you insist on refusing to see the hysteresis in the system?
pete_dushenski: !up Guest96371
pete_dushenski: hey adam
Guest96371: Mr D how goes it?
pete_dushenski: just cracking away at 'rotor' over here. any you ?
phf: ben_vulpes: i have fresh formulas for the brew. also i've verified that eulora indeed builds with gcc-4.9
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the point i was trying to get across is that we are nowhere near a point where folks who are not #b-a regulars can really get into the true meat of the matter
asciilifeform: and pretending otherwise would, imho, be counterproductive
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: "copy my rotor_buildroot_dot_config to the now-untarred buildroot dir as '.config'" << speaking of which, i seem to be snagged up here. can't find 'rotor_buildroot_dot_config'
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: it is in the tarball
Guest96371: Sounds like fun! Just figured I would tune in and see if anyone had anything interesting to say!
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: ah k
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: no arguments there.
ben_vulpes: but patches *must stand alone*
asciilifeform: for the eulora folks, i will point out that the toolchain in 'rotor' could just as easily build their thing
asciilifeform: if there was some reason to.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the patches produced with antecedent marks (see earlier thread) could, hypothetically, stand alone.
ben_vulpes: don't confuse the issue.
asciilifeform: one would, if lacking any other guidance, take 'longest chain'
pete_dushenski: Guest96371: there was some pretty decent conversation earlier today, mostly between asciilifeform and mircea_popescu about chip fabrication and game theory. start here maybe http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1230072
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 03:27:00; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-08-2015#1229784 << this is only a problem of resource distribution. yes, in a world where for incomprehensible reasons every unit of plancton gets disposable money, you get britney spears and reddit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform interesting how it comes to mining
mircea_popescu: all things.
mircea_popescu: all things come home.
asciilifeform: no shit.
asciilifeform: 'lead to rome'
ben_vulpes: aight my ten are up
ben_vulpes: do forgive my frustrated prodding, asciilifeform.
pete_dushenski: Guest96371: and if you also feel like giving 'rotor' (static linux and bitcoin build) a crack : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000133.html
assbot: [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1InQxW4 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30850 @ 0.0005837 = 18.0071 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: bwaha
ben_vulpes: phf: Error: No such file or directory - getcwd
phf: heheh
ben_vulpes: brew install getcwd fails too
ben_vulpes: everything is broken
ben_vulpes: i can't compile anyone's code
ben_vulpes: clearly i don't understand how the world werkz
pete_dushenski: bon soir
ben_vulpes to good old fashioned entertainment with girl
phf: i'm pretty sure once i manage to build eulora on someone else's machine i'm just going to retire from computing altogether
Guest96371: Thanks pete_dushenski I'll have a look :)
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-08-2015#1231871 <<< what is with (i assume) americans and no banking under 18? one of the first things we did at school was open a junior saver account whereby each friday the local banker rep would come by to collect our bank books and our $2 deposit each week, every week, each year without fail
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 05:25:46; onlooker: I have a son, he's 9 months old, I have to change his nappy, he doesn't respect math, time, copyright or patent. He's poor. My nephew is 12, he has no money of his own, but he has a computer, mines his own coins, and although they are not worth much, he's able to participate, He can't participate in Banking, he's not even allowed to use his own account
pete_dushenski: Guest96371: btw where's your pgp key this fine evening ? y'know you can auth and self-voice with assbot eh
Guest96371: I did, but I was just checking in. I'm heading offline now!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00058126 = 5.8707 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/2D45S3S.txt << still tripping up on rotor step 9
pete_dushenski: i'm probably doing something hilariously wrong, however.
pete_dushenski: ok, turns out i needed 'ncurses'. got that now.
cazalla: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-09/australians-paying-thousands-after-ransomware-virus-infection/6683618 "The deputy chairwoman of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, Delia Rickard, said over the past two months there had been a spike in the number of people falling victim to the scam. " "The commission has received 2,500 complaints this year and estimates about $400,000 has been paid to the hackers." fucking australians
assbot: Ransomware virus: Australians forced to pay as latest encryption virus is 'unbreakable', security expert says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) ... ( http://bit.ly/1hr8BZD )
mircea_popescu: so funny that they collect all this data
mircea_popescu: to have what to pay for.
mircea_popescu: total cuckold, the govt.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell asciilifeform with 'ncurses' installed, i went back to the buildroot dir, tried to 'make' and ended up with 'error 127' http://dpaste.com/0YZX5Y0.txt
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-08-2015#1231754 << copying, as in I downloaded a torrent and watched it?
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 04:57:03; mircea_popescu: consider the controlling case, as i opposed it to diametric s question back in the day. so quentin tarantino comes in here all upsed about you copying his latest movie. what do i say, "fuck off qt, if you made a movie you didn'ty make that movie" ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24852 @ 0.00058952 = 14.6508 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell asciilifeform the only other modification i made was choosing 'target architecture : x86_64' in the config menu.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski wonders if it matters that 'builtroot' has 'configs', 'Config.in', 'Config.in.legacy', and stan's 'config' file. seems like a lot of configs, but what does he know ?
punkman: pete_dushenski: did you install rsync?
pete_dushenski: !s locale
assbot: 52 results for 'locale' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=locale
punkman: fukken locales, I hate them
pete_dushenski: just installed 'unzip' and 'bc', now "You need at least one UTF8 locale to build a toolchain supporting locales "
punkman: pete_dushenski: perhaps locale-gen will help
punkman: (or set them manually)
pete_dushenski: weird, i tried 'locale-gen' and it came back with 'generation complete', then threw the same error when i tried to 'make' again
assbot: 7.7. Configuring the System Locale ... ( http://bit.ly/1hra3eu )
pete_dushenski: sweet baby moses i set the locales and the thing's off to the races !!!1
assbot: Donald Trump and Jon Stewart aren’t so different after all ... ( http://bit.ly/1hrbhq5 )
pete_dushenski: "Though the Trump show and the Daily Show both present populist, anti-establishment points of view, their use of entertainment provides a way to actually reinforcere the political and economic power of the establishment that both regularly admonish."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @ 0.00058395 = 19.7959 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski just noticed asciilifeform's 'if you are having locale issues' note on 'rotor' buildsheet
punkman: pete_dushenski: consider this "gcc, toolchain, etc. will LOAD FROM THE NET!" since you seem to be running it as root
pete_dushenski: hm now it's tell me it can't cd to bitcoin/bitcoin/src and i'm running out of steam this evening.
pete_dushenski: last chunk of logs looks like so : http://dpaste.com/2CTV83N.txt
pete_dushenski: for whatever use that may be.
punkman: do you have realpath?
punkman: jsut making sure :P
pete_dushenski: reasonable q !
punkman: open rotor.sh, look at the filepaths
pete_dushenski: i'm about as n00bing as they come around here and i still feel like i'm shockingly, wonderfully close to making rotor work
punkman: just gotta change line 49 "cd bitcoin/bitcoin/src;" to something that works
punkman: and you can run rotor_bitcoin_only.sh now
punkman: although there's that gcc failure on bzip, might be a problem
pete_dushenski: punkman: what would be 'something that works' for line 49 of rotor.sh ?
punkman: pete_dushenski: absolute path would probably work
punkman: (if you use bitcoin_only.sh gotta change it there too)
pete_dushenski: i think this project can wait to be continued tomorrow.
pete_dushenski: thanks punkman, your help is much appreciated.
pete_dushenski: g'nite !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12659 @ 0.00059078 = 7.4787 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: why is it looking for bzip? it's supposed to be toggled by "./bjam toolset=gcc link=static -sNO_BZIP2=1 -sNO_ZLIB=1 -sNO_COMPRESSION=1;"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.00060104 = 14.1845 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29050 @ 0.00060525 = 17.5825 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6850 @ 0.00060652 = 4.1547 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15262 @ 0.00059402 = 9.0659 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27338 @ 0.00058744 = 16.0594 BTC [-]
chetty: hola
wywialm: ben_vulpes, the application is currently a standalone python app, not a web browser app. We are working on a convenient in-browser app that would work with PGP
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00058625 = 4.5141 BTC [-] {3}
punkman: wywialm: are you planning to use openpgp.js?
wywialm: considering it, but sane in-browser pgp is not straightforward
punkman: just say no
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 17:36:20; phf: i thought maybe it's from too much internet, but no, there was a group of girls that acted like normal human beings, coy and playful and active. turned out they were slovenian
wywialm: punkman, is there something that i should be aware of in case of openpgp.js? is it flawed?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34950 @ 0.00060692 = 21.2119 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 12-01-2015 19:56:48; punkman: PSA: openpgpjs is broken
wywialm: thanks for the info, could you point to more details?
punkman: well dunno might appear to be working now, but I've tried validation openpgp.js signatures from 3 people and all failed
punkman: *validating
shinohai: Javascript cryptography is a big no-no anyway
wywialm: well, this is one of reasons we now have only a desktop app
shinohai: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 264.26, Best ask: 264.27, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 264.26, 24 hour volume: 44712.31461482, 24 hour low: 260.62, 24 hour high: 278.35, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: Ethereum (ETH) price, charts, and info | Crypto-Currency Market Capitalizations ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pexkvq )
punkman: Available Supply 60,393,161 Total Supply 72,294,645 ETH
punkman: it's all for sale :P
shinohai: If you want to be an Ethereum god, nows yer chance.
assbot: Bitcoin Investment - Crypto Shares | Banx Capital ... ( http://bit.ly/1PexYcz )
punkman: lulzy
assbot: Bitcoin Investment - Crypto Shares | Banx Capital ... ( http://bit.ly/1Peyasf )
assbot: Online Profit Partner ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeyaIz )
shinohai: lol ... "Your ticket to the moon"
shinohai: Sound like just another MLM scam to me.
shinohai: Ethereum, now with pyramid schemes: http://pastebin.com/AGDsJL6j
assbot: These are the first ever verifiable pyramid schemes with provably known rules! - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeykzF )
kakobrekla: backed by the govt.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8245 @ 0.00058635 = 4.8345 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23350 @ 0.00058602 = 13.6836 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Samourai Bitcoin Wallet ... ( http://bit.ly/1PezwTE )
shinohai: imma request alpha access to see if I can break it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13632 @ 0.00060738 = 8.2798 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.13187112 = 1.3187 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56994 @ 0.00058583 = 33.3888 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18050 @ 0.00058973 = 10.6446 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16307 @ 0.00058974 = 9.6169 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3050 @ 0.00059975 = 1.8292 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: chetty : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-08-2015#1231874 here is your argument, in all its hideous nude glory. and it goes like so :
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 05:26:46; mircea_popescu: apropos of nothing : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
mircea_popescu: some people, for reasons nobody really grasps in spite of trying for millenia (yes, it's a thing since forever) and in spite of having maybe some decent theories, want to fuck twelve year olds.
mircea_popescu: the white people who want this generally sit around the internet "being cypherpunks" and exchanging... depictions of the act. and often enough being "caught" and "prosecuted", on the very untenable rationale that their engagement in the victimless "crime" of exchanging bits somehow promotes and empowers the actual people doing the actual crime of you know, raping preteens.
mircea_popescu: we don't really know what the paki people who want this do, chiefly because we don't want to. but if we do : in pakistan, they go right the fuck ahead and rape the lot. and in rotherdam, england, they do the exact same.
mircea_popescu: this is the whole thing. what'd you tell a guy who wants to rape twelve year olds ? that it's bad ? he did not ask you that. and you can tell him to you know, wait around on social media untill the cute teenie across the street douses herself in gasoline and invites him over.
mircea_popescu: the alternative, where he texts a chick "hey, we got our sister, we're torturing her, come join" just as the chick in question was giving testimony to the supposed government of the uk - a more illegitimate contrivance never having been known to man, incidentally, they have all the legitimacy to govern kim jong il's favourite dog does.
mircea_popescu: and she does. SHE DOES.
mircea_popescu: offered the simple choice of A. stick with the alleged representatives of the schmucks that trade pictures of your rape and jack off in "online anonymity" and joining the raping party, she chooses to join the raping party.
mircea_popescu: that's the discussion. there is not now, nor was ever, nor will ever be invented a manner, stratagem or device to circumvent activity, or to make the passive on par with the active.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5231 @ 0.00059976 = 3.1373 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the entire fancy with western society and emancipation and freedom and have you rests on the reserve, no matter how muted, that "it's either this or we rape you". it needs to sit there like the nuclear option needs to sit on the table, for once it goes away, twelve fucking year olds choose, of their own fucking free will, to join the pakis for an all night / all weekend / all the years to come anal stretching, caned bu
mircea_popescu: ttocks and generally bloodied existence. that's how her choice plays out, and in her age and in her anonimity i believe she stands representative.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, the fucking ~times~ has to do its own investigation because the reps of the crown are completely lost in their pipe dreams to the point they're covering themselves in the mud of publicly ridicule eagery and with both hands.
mircea_popescu: the fucking township in question has to pay independent experts to come and inquire, because it's fucking 1600 iowa over there in rotherdam.
mircea_popescu: and the sheriff never made it yet to the territory.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31300 @ 0.00058403 = 18.2801 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22576 @ 0.00059976 = 13.5402 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: how come the us schmucks ranting on about their endless and universal jurisdiction over everything to the degree that they seek the extradition of random people derping on the internet have yet failed to seek the extradition of the i dunno, 10k or whatever pakis from england that did the child porn one better ?
mircea_popescu: seems odd. if you want it, that legitimacy and that position, boys and girls, this is what you do. and that you don't do it is why people, such as myself, mostly point and laugh at your untenable pretenses of "regulating" bitcoin or online whatever.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure "the commerce clause" allows one to invade and try rotherdam just as well as it allows one to put the silkroad derp in prison and try miloshevich. why the fuck not, after all.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38300 @ 0.00060047 = 22.998 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: and in all this rests a lesson for practical everyday use, too. if you are actually man enough to let your girl know you'll beat the shit out of her if need be, which you generally won't even need to do after an initial stage of infantile testing of the theory as proposed, she'll be the most loving, loyal and internally happy woman that she could ever be.
mircea_popescu: whereas if you do not, she ~might~, maybe, manage to maintain superior brain function control over the rest of herself, and be some sort of a first approximation of the above. maybe. or maybe she won't, and go seek to be assuaged in the arms of other men, more inclined to provide the need - for it is a need. the surogates may work or not, but generally dont, and you'll know about it because if she thinks you're enough
mircea_popescu: of a girlfriend of hers rather than a man she'll tell you.
mircea_popescu: how's that for a "basics of relationships" guide.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16177 @ 0.00060674 = 9.8152 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11950 @ 0.00060722 = 7.2563 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-08-2015#1232067 << an do what ? gardening and child rearing ?
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 06:28:55; phf: i'm pretty sure once i manage to build eulora on someone else's machine i'm just going to retire from computing altogether
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-08-2015#1232108 << i never watched any of the first or much of the second, but it is painfully obvious even from five minutes no matter how chosen that the principal function of the stewart twerp is exactly the same thing as with that other one what's his face.
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 07:45:20; pete_dushenski: "Though the Trump show and the Daily Show both present populist, anti-establishment points of view, their use of entertainment provides a way to actually reinforcere the political and economic power of the establishment that both regularly admonish."
assbot: "Parody" is not there for you cancerous fags to try and hide your cancer behind it. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9xolV )
mircea_popescu: in fact im pretty sure he's just doing a stewart repackaging, but with more "support the government!" spam in it.
mircea_popescu: kindergarten keepers in costume, basically.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26500 @ 0.00060722 = 16.0913 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: because what do the kiddies watching know.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17082 @ 0.00060767 = 10.3802 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 11:14:06; kakobrekla: backed by the govt.
mircea_popescu: because yeah, doubling down against mp ever fucking worked. so maryland uni really wants to "win" at internets, right ? digs itself deeper, alf thinks hey, they're home free. i say it won't last, he says nothing ever lasts, we're at a standoff.
assbot: Insight: Tesla burns cash, loses more than $4,000 on every car sold| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9znXm )
kakobrekla: how is 4k anything
kakobrekla: how much the car costs 100k?
mircea_popescu: so what's the idea, "i'm making a loss on every sale but hope to make it up on volume" ?
mircea_popescu: if a car costs more to make than it retails for, it costs more to make than it should by about 50%. you think volksvagen spends 20k to make a car they sell for 30 ? they don't.
kakobrekla: the question is whats the point of not charging 104k instead 100k
mircea_popescu: i would guess their costs balooned unexpectedly after they had the marketing discussion and fixed a price point
mircea_popescu: and were stuck and didn't know hjow to fix it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30073 @ 0.00060803 = 18.2853 BTC [+] {3}
kakobrekla: ah maybe.
punkman: you mean Tesla can't find a dozen stupid things to upsell?
mircea_popescu: their "home battery" thing isn't catching on.
mircea_popescu: which is suppose is technically better than it catching fire, but this is only from the pov of anyone but tesla.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.0006062 = 11.3056 BTC [-] {4}
shinohai: But they have a nifty snake-like auto charger now!
mircea_popescu remembers the days last decade when apple was making money by including a two inch cable for chargers and selling a normal length one.
mircea_popescu: somehow the crappleheads took deliberate bugs for features throughout the lifetime of that scam.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23057 @ 0.00061408 = 14.1588 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: dont they still do approx the same
mircea_popescu: i confess i've not been following. maybe.
kakobrekla: 50 bux cable with proprietary connector
kakobrekla: the good thing is chinese dont give a fuck and copy it for a buck, but it works only for a week, if.
mircea_popescu: that's how they started, i recall the shit they proudly made in the 80s
mircea_popescu: "made in china" lol, was like... "found by dumpster"
asciilifeform: danielpbarron et al: herr fare has a new site, http://ngnghm.github.io
assbot: Houyhnhnm Computing ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9FUl2 )
shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/dTV6PWv.webm <<< Brasil is where IT'S AT!
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 14:08:56; mircea_popescu: how come the us schmucks ranting on about their endless and universal jurisdiction over everything to the degree that they seek the extradition of random people derping on the internet have yet failed to seek the extradition of the i dunno, 10k or whatever pakis from england that did the child porn one better ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mircea_popescu doesn't give a shit about that.
asciilifeform: the pakis are a designated imported predator, as per 'yi yi zhi yi' algo. they are doing their job.
mircea_popescu: i'm not in the business of understandingly strangling the enemy.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform poor pakis.
asciilifeform: (yes, the pakis are enforcers for usg.)
mircea_popescu: at least the turks just massacred the armenians. what their allies the anglos did in east india...
mircea_popescu: "i have sinned"
asciilifeform: think, without pakis, how much less air compressor for the real estate bubble in paki-free zones
asciilifeform: the more rapy, from this perspective, the more effective.
mircea_popescu: and how many women sexually frustrated.
asciilifeform: same algo was successfully used in usa
mircea_popescu: i think by now it takes about a dozen englishmen to screw in the lightbulb so to speak.
chetty: well zeros new urban planning thing will fix it so no more paki free zones
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44200 @ 0.00061668 = 27.2573 BTC [+] {6}
asciilifeform: british usg colonial lapdogs merely copied.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imagine for a second if you will, how utterly it must suck to be one of the paki betas. which yes, all groups have in the same proportion everywhere, and what's more
mircea_popescu: immigrants are selected for beta, always. because fuck, alpha's not leaving.
mircea_popescu: "your job is to X and i don't recall asking if you were rather equipped for Y mr. whatsyourname!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i must point out that this is only applicable to agricultural tribes. chechens and other migratories - not so! alpha leaves. raiding party.
mircea_popescu: a people that was principally known for excewllent house servants a century ago is now suddenly and magically turned into this mythological black beast of southern yore ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mebbe.
mircea_popescu: on the other hand, the number of black dudes inadequate about their penis ("it's only six and a half inches!!!") far exceedes the number of white dudes so worried (its like four dude.)
asciilifeform: now, for the other prong of the question, 'omg121111!!1111 ch1ld pr0n!' prosecutions in usa are always, without exception about one thing: 'know that you can go to the camps for having certain bitstrings on your hdd. and that if we want to, we can put them there, aha.'
mircea_popescu: which percent-wise is "vast majority" sorta thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you are aware i was discussing the formal, not the substantial reality, rite?
asciilifeform: but doesn't hurt to illustrate the substantial a bit.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz of today, "genocide of white race - all white women fuck black guys, white genes are recessive, future will be all black babies!!1"
mircea_popescu: derps never went to fucking school already. here's a little secret : the DEFINITION of a recessive gene is "the gene which never dies out"
mircea_popescu: that's the thing. why we still have hemophilia in spite of it not being desirable : dominant genes manifest by themselves, and thus you can't have unharmed carriers, and thus they die out under pressure.
mircea_popescu: recessive genes do not manifest by themselves, thus you can have unaffected carriers. thus they never die out.
mircea_popescu: and yes even today black couples have blue eyed, blond haired babies. it happens.
mircea_popescu idly imagines what nazi germany'd have been like if instead of extermination camps, they just had laws that made jewish women go around naked and always say yes to cock.
mircea_popescu: if the traditional hussiness of the jewish young woman's any indication...
mircea_popescu: thousand year reich fo sho.
assbot: Who Controls Your Computer? (And How to make sure it's you) ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9KkIA )
asciilifeform: from back when.
asciilifeform: or hm, undated
asciilifeform: hmm^2, definitely borrows material from us, rather than vice-versa.
asciilifeform: unattributed.
mircea_popescu: "1.1.4 The buck stops with you"
mircea_popescu: not bad, but also a show stopper.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12750 @ 0.00062008 = 7.906 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00060559 = 14.0497 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 5.1.3 is lulzy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.00062014 = 14.6353 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9304 @ 0.00060687 = 5.6463 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu reloads the page
mircea_popescu: "5.1.3 The Ultimate Stake Let me stress what is ultimately at stake: Liberty itself. In this race between human farmers and free humans, there are only two possible end games: in the end, either we extirpate farming, by exterminating any would-be farmer, or they turn humans into cattle, and extirpate any free will by exterminating free men."
mircea_popescu: sometimes i wonder why is thinking so difficult anyway.
asciilifeform: not that 'thinking is hard,' but that pulling one's cock is easy
mircea_popescu: there is only one possible end game, and that is a thermodynamic constraint. otherwise, what fucking end game. some people will be slaves and some people will be stuck with the broadly unappealing job of herding them.
mircea_popescu: i guess you're right.
mircea_popescu: anwyay, /me lacks the patience for that page.
asciilifeform: in a farm process, there are three animals, rather than two
asciilifeform: not only farmer and cow,
asciilifeform: but also milk-drinker
mircea_popescu: only recently.
mircea_popescu: but i mean things more dunfamental. like. "liberty itself is at stake".
mircea_popescu: obviously you took no programming, or otherwise you'd know you can't possibly dereference ... THE CONCEPT OF REFERENCE.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker.
asciilifeform: that page is a valuable anthropologic resource, though. fella clearly has been lurking here for years
asciilifeform: (based on clues in other sections)
mircea_popescu: always with this immodest wankery.
mircea_popescu: schmucks on one side of the twitter debate are "saving the environment" while schmucks at the other side are "liberty is at stake!!!"
mircea_popescu: as fucking if.
asciilifeform: symptom of the basic difficulty of escaping 'enemy with outposts in your head'
mircea_popescu: check it out yo, if you keep farting you might end good digestion itself!!1
mircea_popescu: "there used to be such a thing as intestinal transit. sadly that ended one day some dude from paris, wisconsin didn't wipe his ass properly."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53900 @ 0.00062146 = 33.4967 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Karbala EW Attacks Keysight ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9RpJ7 )
mircea_popescu: cynthia_johnson@agilent.com
mircea_popescu: lol poor woman.
mircea_popescu: "we are observing the scene and waiting . you are not anonymous . expect us ." << notice a change ?
asciilifeform: same spiel since... '10 ?
mircea_popescu: no. it was "we are legion. expect us."
asciilifeform: big phat difference ?
mircea_popescu: major differences. fucking plural.
asciilifeform: still waiting for the interesting seekretz
mircea_popescu: how about you date some agilent women then ?
mircea_popescu: that's your opening, srsly. "hey, I got your email off the cryptome leak thing. wanna go for a cup of coffee ?"
asciilifeform: i doubt very much that there are women in 'compartments'
mircea_popescu: this is like saying "you doubt very much there is water in the crust".
mircea_popescu: ever heard of fracking ?
asciilifeform: example of interesting seekrit: 'magic packet that turns an intel nic to arbitrary-dma whatever into/out of ram'
mircea_popescu: so what are you waiting for. go get it! your list's there.
asciilifeform: the general rule is that an item like this is known to 3 people: the fella who ordered it; the fella who implemented it; and the fella in charge of shooting either or both if they talk
mircea_popescu: and the women.
asciilifeform: nah those know, respectively, 'mine signs paper,' 'mine diddles code,' 'mine shoots'
mircea_popescu: the woman dude. not the cows. the women.
asciilifeform: they have those in usa ?
mircea_popescu: make some if they don't.
asciilifeform: l0l out of what
assbot: Windows Ethereum Users Affected by Private Key Bug ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9Uglk )
asciilifeform: Run Moar Winblowz!
assbot: ‘Fundamentally Apolitical’ Bitcoin Arrives in Cuba amid US Relations Thaw ... ( http://bit.ly/1T9UFnM )
asciilifeform: ^ man? woman? robot ?
assbot: Hitler finds out Ethereum was dumped on the IPO - Altcoins Parody - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBYBDw )
punkman: "While setting privacy permissions on the keys directory, insufficient error handling can cause the key files to not be written; this may be widespread on the Windows platform. As such, current versions of AlethZero and eth may include identities for which there exists no underlying key."
shinohai: This is the future of cryptocurrency .....
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59261 @ 0.00062148 = 36.8295 BTC [+] {5}
mircea_popescu: lollercopter.
mircea_popescu: users that lost money, direct all inquiries for repayment to university of maryland.
assbot: On the Elaine Shi and Andrew Miller scam ring on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1f1O3VS )
mircea_popescu: i'm sure they'll make you whole, but if they don't you certainly can get a lawyer and sue them personally and u of maryland for joint and serveral liability.
mircea_popescu: and settlements for something like that start at six digits.
shinohai: Hopefully they dumped at $3 kek
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the way it works, is that nsf (usg direct) provided truck full of money. umd is just one of the bordellos with which this heap purchased whores
mircea_popescu: nobody ever won a war by killing the "high command".
mircea_popescu: ima grind the soldiers on the ground into toothpaste.
asciilifeform: go, grind.
mircea_popescu: no need to go.
asciilifeform: i just drove by the place. it is not only still standing but swarming with fresh chumpers
asciilifeform: (this is their season)
mircea_popescu: not quite as fresh as a few years ago, and so on and on.
asciilifeform: on the contrary, they are running out of places to put'em
mircea_popescu: this usually connotes stale.
asciilifeform: and i saw a curio that mircea_popescu might appreciate. the largest textbook shop was demolished and replaced with a kind of 'convenience store'. i went in, and saw that approximately 1/3 of the floor space was for menstrual products; a third - for condoms; and most of a third - for gurl phashion paraphernalia. (the small change remaining - iPnohe cabling, etc.)
asciilifeform: by last Official count, the uni is 60-65% female.
mircea_popescu: they actually expect to be paid for condoms ?!
mircea_popescu: i thought those were free on campus and still nobody uses them
asciilifeform: complicated
asciilifeform: 1) yes, free
asciilifeform: 2) no one wants to be seen as 'soviet' and using the standard phree ver.
asciilifeform: hence - ten grades of preeemium
mircea_popescu: i don't get this.
mircea_popescu: wouldnt you WANT to be seen as exactly that ?
mircea_popescu: last i heard about a third of the kids pointedly wore army surpluss stuff.
asciilifeform: not here.
asciilifeform: plus the phree usg condoms don't have fruit juices, built-in vibratory devices, and other nonsense
punkman: but do they have added vitamins?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27050 @ 0.000607 = 16.4194 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: fruit juices good help us
mircea_popescu: why not just put half an orange on the thing.
mircea_popescu: it'll juice alright.
assbot: Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau "Ich habe genug" J.S.Bach - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1f1RgEO )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28240 @ 0.00060668 = 17.1326 BTC [-] {5}
shinohai thanks ag3nt_zer0 for the fine music selection ...
shinohai: Enjoy this view with the music: https://i.imgur.com/6CAy9Py.png
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112850 @ 0.00062227 = 70.2232 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00060559 = 4.7236 BTC [-]
ag3nt_zer0: shinohai: my pleasure man... so beautiful
shinohai: I'm a sucker for bach, and I especially love hearing Segovia play it.
shinohai: Because, geetars man
shinohai: !up n6
ag3nt_zer0: you play?
ag3nt_zer0: i have been working my segovia scales a bit haha
shinohai: Yup, well I used to when I had time.
n6: I hate to ask for support in here again but gave up on lsub idea and reinstalled, now I can't get wireless working at all using cli, tried setting up a conf file becuase wpa_cli woudln't connect with wpa_supplicant but that didnt work. at a loss for where to go next on my quest for a source based distro.
n6: it works fine if i boot into live cd and put the info in
ben_vulpes: !up Duffer1
ben_vulpes: wb yo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00062246 = 13.4451 BTC [+] {3}
ag3nt_zer0: Dietrich Fischer Dieskau is the guy who cracked open the wonder of "classical" singing to me - Before him, I liked it, but didn't really feel connected to it in the same way that I was to sonic youth and nine inch nails haha... then I saw some videos of dieskau doing Schubert lierder and I was fuckiing blasted - the dude like physically changed into the different character of the song - and the lyrical sensibility of Schu
danielpbarron: n6, i was never able to get wifi working on my gentoo install so good luck with that
ag3nt_zer0: it was fucking rock and roll
ag3nt_zer0: *characters
shinohai: ag3nt_zer0: you like neo-classical guitar too?
ag3nt_zer0: sure I like all honest music
assbot: (Storm Rider) Gentaro Satomura Neo-Classical Sweep Solo - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1f1TQuy )
ag3nt_zer0: and maybe some unabashadly dishonest that I havent been graced to hear yet
ag3nt_zer0: *unabashedly
ag3nt_zer0: thanks I'll have a listen :)
trinque: n6: you may need to emerge linux-firmware; however, you're best off looking for gentoo support in #gentoo
n6: thanks as always trinque. gonna try again after emerging firmware
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell phf new logdump for ya
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85200 @ 0.00062295 = 53.0753 BTC [+] {4}
ag3nt_zer0: shinahai: yeah wow... have you ever checked out the guitarist stanley jordan (plays two guitars touch tap technique)? that guy is amazing as well... good character too - walked away from fame and shit town to do music therapy
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
ag3nt_zer0: haha whats that?
shinohai: Yeah Stanley Jordan is awesum
shinohai: I even didn't hate on him for that Stairway cver.
shinohai: *cover
shinohai: This kid is great at tap guitar too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_dA_iFPeRw
assbot: TETRIS THEME - ZACK KIM - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1N1mJVq )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00062459 = 11.9297 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Julian Bream - Fandanguillo - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1N1pRkn )
asciilifeform: error: cocks visible
shinohai: Now it's like throwing a hotdog down a hallway #rekt
shinohai: Also, "privilege "
ben_vulpes: cunts are stretchy man.
ben_vulpes: remarkable things, really.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://imgur.com/SnUhZRR << remember them ?
assbot: NearlyFreeSpeech.Net (web hosting) accepts bitcoin - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1N1qrP2 )
assbot: Logged on 05-07-2015 16:21:23; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu seems like 'nearlyfreespeech co.' takes btc now..
mod6: So Shinohai and I just got done testing my TEST2 bundle with rotor script. We've built successfully on: Gentoo/glibc, Ubuntu 10.04, Debian 6 and Debian 8 :: All x86_64
shinohai: I propose adding that location echo to the script mod6 so as not to cause noob hair-pulling.
mod6: If someone wants to give it a try on x86_64 on a similar linux let me know. I've had to install a few pre-reqs on a totally bare minimum 10.04 like: build-essentials, curl, rsync, and unzip
mod6: ah shinohai, location echo?
asciilifeform: btw rsync should be abolished when we mod the thing to stop pulling from the net
asciilifeform: ditto curl
mod6: yeah, that's after we freeze everything though right?
mod6: ok np
mod6: ;;later tell pete_dushenski I have a script for you to try on Debian 7 to build TEST2 with rotor. You might need to install a few minor pre-reqs. I can hold your hand if required for that part. Let me know when you have some time.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: asciilifeform: only main change I had to make other than pulling down the TEST2 bundle itself was to add this: sed -i 's/bitcoin\/bitcoin\/src/bitcoin\/src/' rotor.sh
asciilifeform: this suggests that the dir structure was not created correctly
asciilifeform: in this test
mod6: no, mine's fine.
mod6: its just the way that jurov demands that it works.
asciilifeform: wai wut
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83802 @ 0.00062553 = 52.4207 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: remember when jurov was mad at me because i put everything underneath of v0_5_3_1/ instead of just being what it was.
mod6: so now it extracts and it's just bitcoin/src
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14998 @ 0.00062737 = 9.4093 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: whatever. so long as it works when i get it back and test it
mod6: haha, right.
mod6: i have a script for you to look over, review, read, and try out if you like:
mod6: main major requirement x86-64
asciilifeform: looks reasonable to naked eye. will test later when i get back to the machine where i do this.
mod6: someone can also not run this as a script and just run these commands one line at a time if they please.
mod6: thanks asciilifeform
shinohai: Testing on Ubuntu precise nau
mod6: last reminder to all who are following along: TEST2 is patched up through maxint_locks_corrected
kakobrekla: recv-keys not using fingerprints ?
assbot: 100 Test Loongson LS3A 2way Server V1 1 Ty RS780ED by DHL or EMS | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1J4Asv0 )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ^ or other archaeologists, explorerz
asciilifeform: i dare say that recv-keys is an evil
mod6: kakobrekla: it needs a bit of cleanup before we're through
mod6: thanks tho
asciilifeform: get yer keys from a) the horse's mouth b) someone you've personally met who met (a)
kakobrekla: also live on another planet
asciilifeform: we are nearing the point where hashless pubkey distribution is practical
asciilifeform: (enough of us have met in the meat)
asciilifeform: good practice for when it is time for the one time pads, too.
mod6: All: If you are going to build the rotor-TEST2.sh on debian be advised that you may need the following installed: build-essential curl unzip python bc rsync
ben_vulpes: how did rsync get in there?
mod6: buildroot uses it to pull stuff it needs.
mod6: (14:54) <+asciilifeform> btw rsync should be abolished when we mod the thing to stop pulling from the net
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ditto curl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00062274 = 4.0167 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: myeah.
ben_vulpes is having trouble keeping all of the moving parts for this thing in head at once.
mod6: yea, i think this all is about to get easier.
mod6: it's been a battle
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30650 @ 0.00062813 = 19.2522 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40550 @ 0.00061798 = 25.0591 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: CryptoJunky comments on Ethereum is on sale y’all ... ( http://bit.ly/1f28FNy )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32915 @ 0.00062881 = 20.6973 BTC [+] {4}
funkenstein_: get to the rotor!
funkenstein_: if anyone still working the nursery, here's me failing to build buildroot on debian8: http://dpaste.com/0FXN1D4
assbot: dpaste: 0FXN1D4 ... ( http://bit.ly/1f2auKA )
mod6: oh
mod6 looks
mod6: funkenstein_: ok this is a new one for me. what are the detalis: debian 8, x86-64... ok. is this with the rotor/stator hand build from ascii's guide with tea? or my thing I just posted a bit a go rotor-TEST2.sh?
jurov: mircea_popescu: pls to mpex
shinohai: Try the new test script. So easy a redditard *might* could build it.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: is the untarred buildroot intended to live in toolchain or in the root of the rotor directory?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61922 @ 0.00060564 = 37.5024 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: 16 firms worth billions even though they lose millions - Jan. 23, 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mj1Wxx )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my root dir contains: buildroot-2015.05 stator toolchain
asciilifeform: mats: 'worth billions' in the usg empire has nothing to do with money, but with 'noble, aryan' blood
asciilifeform: the money is seen as an entitlement
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform and what ends up in toolchain?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the 1) binaries 2) headers which magick into existence when buildroot is built
asciilifeform: (it is initially empty)
ben_vulpes: well this explains a few thigs
asciilifeform: this covers gcc and libc (musl in the provided config)
asciilifeform: rotor.sh, if you notice, sets up environment such that ~they~ and not your local system's are used for the builds
ben_vulpes: i *did* notice that bit
ben_vulpes: put buildroot in the wrong place.
ben_vulpes: will now have to throw everything out and recompile buildroot, no?
asciilifeform: oh and don't every try to move'em
asciilifeform: won't work
asciilifeform: (complain to gcc folks, not me. absolute path crud in just about everything...)
ben_vulpes: <ben_vulpes> will now have to throw everything out and recompile buildroot, no?<< so then yes
ben_vulpes: lovely, thanks world
mod6: asciilifeform: any idea on funkenstein_'s error? maybe no build-essentials?
asciilifeform: mod6: hard to say, but his environment is loudly and profanely defective
asciilifeform: where the fuck do you people get these things ?!
asciilifeform: what happened to reasonable linux ?
trinque: years of compromise.
mod6: shinohai: you built successfully with rotor-TEST2.sh on deb 8 right?
assbot: GCC 4.8 Build Error 2 gcc/nm: exec: line -89: -pg not found ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mj2Gmm )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11650 @ 0.00062885 = 7.3261 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: try turning the gcc knob to some much earlier ver.
shinohai: Yup, Deb 7, 8 and Ubuntu precise
asciilifeform: prolly ought to have done this myself to begin with
mod6: great work shinohai
shinohai: Ubuntu was on the shittiest box I could find.
shinohai: ^_______________^
mod6: i built on ubuntu 10.04, as well as deb6 and gentoo/hardened/nomultilib/libc
trinque: asciilifeform: btw, here is the gentoo bootstrap script so far http://dpaste.com/27W35K9
assbot: dpaste: 27W35K9 ... ( http://bit.ly/1Mj2JyH )
trinque: currently farts out a root.img which can be run in qemu
mod6: i guess i could try now on 14.04 LTS
trinque: working on it hitting a block device now
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: give it to mircea_popescu, i think he was having problems coming up with a gentoo
trinque: asciilifeform: shall when it does a blockdev
mod6: trinque: cool!
asciilifeform: would be neat if it could be done with a musl runtime
asciilifeform: (instead of drepperola)
trinque: asciilifeform: I intend such knobs, for sure
trinque: would I think mostly be a change of the STAGE3 line
asciilifeform: has anyone tried the 'suckless' linux ?
asciilifeform: seems as if they are even abolishing 'busybox' in favour of something 'fits-in-head'-flavoured
mod6: awe shoot, realized i gotta wait until later tonight for ubuntu 14.04 test. my bad.
asciilifeform: would be interesting to learn whether this actually lives peacefully with any existing proggy
mod6: busybox? any specific version?
asciilifeform: mod6: iirc they are dispensing with it entirely
asciilifeform: in favour of something else that they wrote
mod6: oh. ok. you want to us to try it on the new thing they're working on, or exisitng, or both and compare?
asciilifeform: eh, was just curious if anyone ~has~
assbot: sbase - suckless unix tools ... ( http://bit.ly/1f2cQJs )
asciilifeform: imho ought to go in some kind of logical order - iirc most folks don't even have rotor working yet.
punkman: I like that there's a column named "Finished"
mod6: asciilifeform: im with you there.
asciilifeform: depressing that they're doing utf
punkman: why?
asciilifeform: 'tis a 'hole through which the night leaks in'
asciilifeform: and bloats everything
asciilifeform: what ~i~ would like is a modern unix that FITS IN A FUCKING BOOK like the sysv5 in 'the lions book'
asciilifeform: as it is, unix is dead, and we will come to regret keeping it on life support this way.
punkman: if you notice, only a few of the things need explicit UTF8 support there
asciilifeform: one notable attempt at 'fits in book but usable' was minix. a failed attempt.
asciilifeform: compare minix2 to minix3
asciilifeform: the latter runs on actual hardware which you may be able to find - but NO LONGER FITS IN BOOK
asciilifeform: it turned into a pathetically shabby imitation linux
asciilifeform: and before mircea_popescu chimes in and says 'find old hardware', let's see him booting from a floppy
asciilifeform: and running blockchain on an elephantine heap of floppies swapped in and out by hand.
asciilifeform: at ~10kB/s.
shinohai inserts disk 4,560
asciilifeform: if you want to play 'rogue', you can use whatever iron you found in old university dumpster, yes
asciilifeform: but if you want to use bitcoin - suddenly there are all kinds of hard constraints
shinohai: Or, I could fire up the trs-80 and attempt to fit it all on cassette tape/
asciilifeform: gotta support modern disks, and modern bus, and ram, and... and.
asciilifeform: and yes, one can turn bitcoind into a kernel of sorts. (you cannot use a linux kernel as a base for this. to understand why, read src for kmalloc, etc.)
asciilifeform: but this does not magick away the problem of ~on what to develop~.
asciilifeform: have fun verifying blocks in <10M on that trs.
asciilifeform: (will a typical tx, much less block, even fit in the 64k address space ?)
asciilifeform: and sure, go and scoop ocean out with a thimble. but doing it ~quickly~ is another matter.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30850 @ 0.00060479 = 18.6578 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30959 @ 0.00060366 = 18.6887 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.000612 = 6.6402 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: !up scthoopbot
ben_vulpes: !up scthoopbot
ben_vulpes: ahaha
ben_vulpes: !up scthoopbot
ben_vulpes: righteous
ben_vulpes: joker.
williamdunne: Scthoopbot isn't very inspiring at the moment. Just doing it as my hello lisp project
williamdunne: Oh shit
williamdunne: He replies to every message with dick
trinque: lol
jurov: scthoopbot ?
jurov: kek
williamdunne: Umm, it was my best interpretation of someone with a severe lisp saying "scoopbot"
williamdunne: Although evidently he doesn't quite understand the concept of a private message yet
fluffypony: wouldn't it just be thcoopbot?
williamdunne: I think you might be right
williamdunne: Yes, you are
williamdunne: I'm already fed up of brackets
trinque: tune your editor better
trinque: you shouldn't even notice them
trinque: emacs is the only sane choice, and there are a number of modes for that
williamdunne: Yeah, I'll get that done. It's a really strange language coming from some of the more "modern" ones
trinque: only because the others hide a detail lisp displays honestly, the AST
trinque: anyhow, cool that you're diving into that
williamdunne: Yeah, seems pretty good so far. Only bummer is that all of the libraries I can take advantage of elsewhere don't really exist, and if they do they are entirely undocumented
williamdunne: Although its forcing me to read source, which at least is good for learning
trinque: for CL itself, hyperspec.el
trinque: as for the rest, depends on the library
williamdunne: I found this and got excited, until I realized that they haven't written all that much..
assbot: L(λ)THW ... ( http://bit.ly/1f2fmiM )
assbot: Learn Common Lisp in Y Minutes ... ( http://bit.ly/1f2fleO )
williamdunne: Yeah, that's what I've been learning from :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2650 @ 0.000612 = 1.6218 BTC [+]
williamdunne: trinque: punkman: know how I can dump a representation of an object to a string?
williamdunne: found print-object but looks for a stream
jurov: simple, just screenshot+ocr
trinque: williamdunne: if you're in a slime repl, you can simply make mention of the symbol and right click the thing, and inspect
trinque: I'ms ure there's some pretty printer too; I haven't used it
williamdunne: Thanks, I'll have a dig
trinque: williamdunne: actually you probably just want to past stdout to print-object as the stream
punkman: isn't it just 'object?
trinque: looks like (pprint 'yourthing) maybe
trinque: something around there
assbot: CLHS: Function WRITE, PRIN1, PRINT, PPRINT... ... ( http://bit.ly/1f2h8Ao )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.00062691 = 8.1185 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10918 @ 0.00062138 = 6.7842 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00062884 = 15.5952 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33050 @ 0.00060213 = 19.9004 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29883 @ 0.00062884 = 18.7916 BTC [+] {4}
ben_vulpes: williamdunne: what's your cl development flow like?
ben_vulpes: i had a dream that i figured out how to never recompile openssl again
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30755 @ 0.00062884 = 19.34 BTC [+] {3}
mats: I had a dream I got three scoops of guac at chipotle
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: Horrendous, currently just doing (load "some/path/file.lisp")
williamdunne: Which I edit in sublime
ben_vulpes: williamdunne: hate to ask, but...
ben_vulpes: stoppit, wouldja?
ben_vulpes: the incremental recompilation shit is mind-blowing
williamdunne: Yeah, I'm gonna get emacs set up
williamdunne: Not used to using it, so another thing to learn
ben_vulpes: okay, well pm if you need help
ben_vulpes: always happy to indoctrinate another
williamdunne: Cheers ben :) yeah does look a little batshit to setup in buntu
ben_vulpes: ah it ain't so bad
phf: williamdunne: no!
phf: one sec
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00060434 = 11.7242 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/1A5RWC9 << how buildroot exits
assbot: dpaste: 1A5RWC9 ... ( http://bit.ly/1L01mEz )
ben_vulpes: no idea if that's right or not
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: does it ~work~ ?
ben_vulpes: i'll see.
ben_vulpes: stepping carefully through next steps.
shinohai: http://redd.it/3gdb6u <<< good luck w/that
assbot: In C++ my variables are signed but I have no place to put my signature. What did I do wrong? : shittyprogramming ... ( http://bit.ly/1L01OCP )
phf: williamdunne: rob warnock has a series of posts on how to use lisp effectively even if you don't have emacs running, i often find it a reasonable path for lisp novices, particularly when you don't want the complexity of emacs to get in the way of early explorations. http://xach.com/rpw3/articles/BJqdnd9R65ee3qDbnZ2dnUVZ_vGinZ2d%40speakeasy.net.html, http://xach.com/rpw3/articles/PJudnYz2hfC-HQbYnZ2dnUVZ_ternZ2d%40speakeasy.net.html, http://
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1L01TWZ )
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1L01SCG )
phf: xach.com/rpw3/articles/TJadnRSn8I_o8qHZ4p2dnA%40speakeasy.net.html and http://xach.com/rpw3/articles/PqOdndt5Kr6E9BnUnZ2dnUVZ_juWnZ2d%40speakeasy.net.html (there's probably more, but it's worthwhile to read through those)
assbot: Re: Emacs vs VI, the final solution — Rob Warnock Lisp usenet archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1L01ST0 )
asciilifeform: phf: xach is a serious lulzmine
asciilifeform: sadly, he (iirc) starved.
phf: asciilifeform: well, he provides a valuable service of hosting both naggum and rob warnock archives
mircea_popescu: ho come he's not here anyway
asciilifeform: or hm no!
williamdunne: Thanks phf
asciilifeform: i'm entirely misremembering
asciilifeform: it was xiah lee who starved
asciilifeform: xach - no one seems to know anything about.
asciilifeform: (xiah lee, don't expect to see anywhere. he literally ran out of money and went to wash dishes for minimum wage, and sold his computer iirc)
phf: i love xah, but he fell out of contact by becoming increasing more chaotic
phf: (xah lee)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2640 @ 0.00062885 = 1.6602 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: this mpex over 60 thing is beheheautiful.
ben_vulpes: behyutiful
ben_vulpes compiles openssl for the third time today
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> btw rsync should be abolished when we mod the thing to stop pulling from the net << very much this wtf.
asciilifeform: i did warn!
asciilifeform: back when i released pogotron
asciilifeform: (which rotor is based on)
phf: i've met xach a few times at post-ilc pub sessions, i think he's doing lisp consulting for clozure, but yeah i don't really know the details. i think him, fare, etc. would dismiss this place on superficial grounds being self proclaimed feminists. last i checked fare's twitter it was an equal mix of lisp conversations and sjw rhetoric
asciilifeform: last i saw, fare was more of a 'libertarian'-flavoured crackpot ?
mircea_popescu: !up nama
mircea_popescu: nama see above link, where it says "first steps in #b-a"
mircea_popescu: it's explained how to register with assbot. after that i'll rate you and you can ahve an eulora account.
mircea_popescu: phf we're feminists aren't we ?!
phf: i think by last polls we were "pervs"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53700 @ 0.00062885 = 33.7692 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: orthogonal concern isn't it ?
ben_vulpes: fair unsurprising, one has to toe that line to keep a twitter account
mircea_popescu: it's gotten that bad ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm penning a "racists and the racist idea" piece, should help.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs."
mircea_popescu: ahaha wut!
asciilifeform: burn your computer.
ben_vulpes: yes, that is what you told trinque as well.
trinque: ben_vulpes: is that db saying that?
ben_vulpes: adding the --host flag now.
ben_vulpes: setting -e as well
trinque: in related news, my script works for both disk images and block devices; however, I need to figure out why the usb device isn't present at the time the initrd goes looking for root
trinque: so after that, infectious gentoo
mircea_popescu: find lsub, help out n6
ben_vulpes: lol why oh why does this script carry on merrily even after i set -e
trinque: depends how you're running it
trinque: source ?
ben_vulpes: ah well it'd help to edit the right script
trinque: that too lol
ben_vulpes now has 3? 4? copies of rotor.sh open
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10849 @ 0.00060429 = 6.5559 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: `rotor/stattor/rotor.sh`
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45051 @ 0.00058823 = 26.5003 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: trinque: set -xeu should do the trick, no?
mircea_popescu: btw, the... let's call them "non stem" persons keeping their eye on this here thing because they're so interested in my magical dragon being and associatedpowers regularly observe that you people have horrid naming schemes and nymismatics generally.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let'em come here and name then.
asciilifeform: 'to criticize is to volunteer'
asciilifeform: (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: let'em also go and de-swearword the soviet phaktory.
mircea_popescu: i said this.
trinque: ben_vulpes: I dunno what x and u do
ben_vulpes: x prints all output, u signals errors on reference to unbound variables
phf: williamdunne: not builtin, but here's a generic object printer, http://paste.lisp.org/display/153363. if you have an instance of a class, you'll get #<FOO (A . 1) (B . "test") C #x123123> (where C is unbound)
phf: only works for ccl and sbcl, so if you're using something different i'll need to extend it
asciilifeform: phf: this can be made to work for anything that has printability method defined, aha
trinque: ben_vulpes: bash --be-sane
ben_vulpes: that's all i've ever wanted out of these scripts.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall your observation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-08-2015#1229166 ? i often have problems naming something that i strongly feel doesn't deserve a name
assbot: Logged on 07-08-2015 14:35:50; mircea_popescu: it's almost as if he respects the scholar and despises the whore^H^H^H^H i mean programmer
asciilifeform: just like a turd isn't normally given a name before flushing
ben_vulpes: the "minimal changes possible thing" keeps us hunting around local maxima
ben_vulpes: big institutional resistance to plucking the team up and depositing them elsewhere on the manifold.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes explain ye ?
ben_vulpes: "go uphill", right?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform naming is fundamentally dirty.
mircea_popescu: nothing deserves a name at that time it gets a name.
asciilifeform: this is why kings, popes, have the right pattern
asciilifeform: get a temp name and assigned a proper one ~when deserved~
asciilifeform: or the japanese version of this, full-bore
asciilifeform: posthumous names
asciilifeform: (e.g., 'emperor showa' not hirohito)
ben_vulpes: when one reaches the top of the hill, naive optimization algo will simply not take you through the valley to the next hill
ben_vulpes: "minimal changes possible" is this naive optimization.
asciilifeform: or hell, ru prison nicknamez
mircea_popescu: what's showa mean, incidentally ?
ben_vulpes: and so i end up commenting out sections of scripts. adding -xeu myself. and so forth.
mircea_popescu: "unavoidable failure" or "the hole the night" ?
mircea_popescu: i r ask!
asciilifeform: wouldn't surprise me if it means something like 'deep sea fish'
asciilifeform: esp. given as that was his true calling (ichthyology)
asciilifeform: had papers published, even.
mircea_popescu: "dumbass" also works.
mircea_popescu: (this is why the jp don't have the irght idea - the respect of they loath to insult is not worth the shit it's printed on)
asciilifeform: the whole experiment in bringing back emperors was a flop
mircea_popescu: so it was.
asciilifeform: a kind of legitimacy-washing of unrelated structures
asciilifeform: sorta like if somebody took moldbug's suggestion of digging up and reinstating the stewart monarchy somehow
mircea_popescu: rank nonsense. you can't "be made" a king.
mircea_popescu: the only legitimate way to become a king is at the hands of a priest whose knees are trembling.
mircea_popescu: hitler's readily the last legitimate case.
mircea_popescu: (unlike napoleon, stalin never wanted it)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> has anyone tried the 'suckless' linux ? << stali the "more official" distribution seems to still be in the planning phase
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00062906 = 9.1214 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00062974 = 12.7837 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: ah that's right, boost needs exceptions from the -e flag
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00062563 = 11.3865 BTC [-]
assbot: Live-Capture Forensics of Corruptor-Injector Network injecting fake Chrome install via https@google - cryptostorm's community forum ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iwz5lo )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00062563 = 7.8204 BTC [-]
williamdunne: phf: Thanks, although I'm still trying to wrap my head around streams
assbot: 21. Streams ... ( http://bit.ly/1IwzIv5 )
phf: williamdunne: if you paste it in your repl, objects that you create with make-instance will magically display their attributes
phf: i.e. you don't need to know about streams to use that function
ben_vulpes: after much derping, i have a rotor-built stator bitcoind
phf: ben_vulpes: os x?
ben_vulpes: some heinous aws gentoo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00058541 = 20.665 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16621 @ 0.00061586 = 10.2362 BTC [+]
shinohai: gg ben_vulpes
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> after much derping, i have a rotor-built stator bitcoind << heeey! neat. :]
mod6: im building on ubuntu 14.04 atm
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-08-2015#1232838 << and when i tell mircea_popescu 'they own the backbone', he laughs
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 23:34:47; mats: https://cryptostorm.org/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=8713
williamdunne: phf: Objects aren't created in a very accessible manner. Simply received from an event
phf: williamdunne: try running that function and then see if the display of these objects from an event changed
phf: they should
phf: *it should rather
williamdunne: phf: if I just run it, it has no inputs. Or am I just entirely derping?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00058424 = 4.5571 BTC [-]
phf: williamdunne: correct (on both)
phf: this is sort of like redefining Object.toString or object.__str__
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32100 @ 0.00060522 = 19.4276 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23822 @ 0.00059266 = 14.1183 BTC [-]
assbot: 'Re: radeondrm firmware archive problem?' - MARC ... ( http://bit.ly/1Tiy1o8 )
phf: williamdunne: i guess i might've also did a wild guess, i assume you're getting some standard-objects from somewhere, and they come out as #<FOO #x123123> or somesuch and you're trying to figure out, what's inside of them. you can (inspect foo) to see the insides of the object on repl, or you can call that (defmethod ...) and then every time an object is displayed on repl it's going to be displayed as #<FOO (value . 1) (value2 . "hello")> i
phf: nstead
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7365 @ 0.00058504 = 4.3088 BTC [-]
phf: ben_vulpes: have you been brew update'ing? i'm looking at the latest log and it looks like an older version of a script. `git -C $(brew --repository)/Library/Taps/pf/homebrew-eulora log|head -1|awk '{print $2}'` should return ce6d58194e2371ac9d4295e3a9a336fe6e44c548
gernika: phf - been following along - that's what I get
phf: gernika: does yours also fail? logs please
gernika: yes. one sec.
phf: thanks!
phf: now it's push pull against homebrew.. i take it you have gcc46 installed via homebrew and no other gcc versions
gernika: I do have gcc46 - I'm not sure if I have other gcc versions or not - I vaguely recall xcode installing some compiler or other
gernika: Looks like I've got gcc42 as well
phf: xcode comes with clang/llvm and a bogus llvm-gcc, which pretends to be gcc, except fails on all kinds of obscure flags, and certainly doesn't respect gcc semantics
phf: homebrew on the other hand can be told "this thing doesn't build with GCC/llvm/clang such and such" but can't be told explicitly "build with this compiler", because!
phf: and then it hacks up the environment so that calls to gcc-* are funneled to whatever version of gcc homebrew magically decided to use
ben_vulpes: phf: i have, will again
ben_vulpes: phf: are you pushing changes? neither cs nor eulora were listed in the output of `brew update'
phf: did you ran the above git -C ... command? if it's returning ce6d*, then you're on the latest change
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23650 @ 0.00062695 = 14.8274 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: is it just me or is trilema actually the 4th result for pay for your tits
phf: ben_vulpes, gernika: i just pushed another version. see if "pf/homebrew-eulora" is in brew update results. also it /should/ now use gcc-4.6 but who the fuck knows. rebuild if don't mind spending electricity, i'll continue reading homebrew source code
gernika: phf didn't see it in the list of updated formulas but the hash changed: b94bbf8834183935a1e03bd3736942e455a02e1c
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32750 @ 0.00062699 = 20.5339 BTC [+] {4}
phf: that's a correct hash
phf: btw, doing `git -C $(brew --repository)/Library/Taps/pf/homebrew-eulora log --show-signature` should show that all the commits have been signed with my key. of course homebrew has zero hooks to enforce signed only updates..
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8150 @ 0.000627 = 5.1101 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6907 @ 0.00060891 = 4.2057 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43245 @ 0.00061194 = 26.4633 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: '...not unlike the idea that there can exist "professional code" or professional defecation. Get over it, everyone's doing it anyway.' << i've said before, and will say again: this not-unfounded notion is not a neutral observation, but a normative; and for so long as folks expect a steaming heap of shit on their plates, that is what will be served for dinner.
asciilifeform: half the battle is merely to get anybody to contemplate that it is possible to eat things other than shit
asciilifeform: just - in principle, possible.
asciilifeform: 'eh, medicine?! anybody can take a knife and let blood'
asciilifeform: 'what medical skill? it's like shitting, anyone can do it'
asciilifeform: 'anybody can gather rat shit and smear it in a wound.'
asciilifeform: yes, yes they can.
asciilifeform: btw, iirc mircea_popescu once asked why dijkstra is not taught in american schools. the reason is not a secret: he openly taught that fewer people have any business programming computer than performing surgery
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47600 @ 0.00062806 = 29.8957 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i did mention it's controversial :)
mircea_popescu: !up bassguitarman
mircea_popescu: i like teh approach phf
phf: a prof at umd (hanan samet, he did his grad work at stanford under john mccarthy) told me that he tried teaching SICP for a semester, with the predictable result of 90% failure rate. equally predictably parents started calling dean's office and sent in lawyers, the grades were nullified and his teaching methods questioned, of course he never tried teaching SICP again
asciilifeform: phf: samet!
asciilifeform: phf: never saw him in person, but we had his book.
mircea_popescu: phf i don't get this lawyers thing tbh. nothing left of the 60s parisian uprising in the us ?
asciilifeform: and wtf, much harsher coursework was done there when i was a wee lad
asciilifeform: than anything in sicp
mircea_popescu: i thot the vulgate is that lawyers aren't allowed on campus.
phf: mircea_popescu: there's an internal conflict resolution body, which essentially mirrors us court system. when i had some issues with the school, i was immediately advised to higher a lawyer by every random student i talked to about it
asciilifeform: and hell, 90% failure rate is ~mandatory~ in freshmen 'weeders'
asciilifeform: so there's gotta be some other part of this story.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a good idea incidewntally. if i ran the school, it'd be "this class fails 90% - if the teacher doesn't flunk that many we'll draw lots, but student body DOES get decimated one way or another"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this used to be sop
phf: asciilifeform: i think his class was a entry level elective, so a bunch of special snowflakes took it to distinguish themselves on transcript
mircea_popescu: the drawing lots ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no. the 90%
mircea_popescu: add the lots, take the power from the people.
asciilifeform: notbad.
phf: asciilifeform: but yeah, of course that was his side of the story. he was not a particularly good teacher, but he knew his shit, re spatial data structures
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for reference, samet was/is one of the maybe six sane and respectable profs in that dept
asciilifeform: in its entire history.
asciilifeform blows dust off samizdat xerocopy of samet
asciilifeform blows dust off priceless original
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-08-2015#1232560 << how the fuck did this become a thing anwyay
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 20:27:08; asciilifeform: (complain to gcc folks, not me. absolute path crud in just about everything...)
mircea_popescu: what even is "absolute path"
asciilifeform: path that makes it break if you move or rename the dir.
mircea_popescu: no but i mean... wtf.
asciilifeform: as in, /home/schmuck/foo/bar/rotor/toolchain
asciilifeform: and yes, wtf
asciilifeform: hey, gcc doesn't expect to move.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-08-2015#1232567 << im starting to suspect reasonable linux never existed. it for a while looked like soon enough IT WILL. then it seamlessly switched to looking like for a while IT HAD.
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 20:31:28; asciilifeform: what happened to reasonable linux ?
phf: there's no guy debord for u.s. universities
mircea_popescu: but the "here is" part somehow never occured. there's a 5-15 year overlap where the will and had overlap.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or like brezhnev's 'communism is coming in 1980'
asciilifeform: 'Debord's first book, Mémoires, was bound with a sandpaper cover so that it would damage other books placed next to it.' << win
assbot: Logged on 09-08-2015 21:19:32; jurov: simple, just screenshot+ocr
asciilifeform: aaaaaaaaand....
mircea_popescu: lmao "Shazam" wtf.
asciilifeform: (first of new batch!)
asciilifeform: and can we mebbe get lobbesbot again ?
mircea_popescu: "2. Box: The online filing sharing company is poised to go public on Friday after a number of false starts. But Box recently revealed it suffered a $170 million loss in its latest year of results."
mircea_popescu: what the fuck lmao. "filesharing" ? it's not even a thing.
assbot: Bundesministerium für Landesverteidigung und Sport - bmlvs.gv.at ... ( http://bit.ly/1PfzsD7 )
phf: asciilifeform: you might enjoy reading his autobiography, Panegyric, http://debordiana.chez.com/english/panegyric.htm
assbot: Panegyric. Volume I ... ( http://bit.ly/1PfzvyO )
assbot: BOX Interactive Stock Chart | Yahoo! Inc. Stock - Yahoo! Finance ... ( http://bit.ly/1PfztqQ )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00061284 = 11.4601 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: gcd==12884901891; Herbert Saurugg <herbert.saurugg@bmlv.gv.at>; Herbert Saurugg (aufgrund der Umstellung auf BMLVS - 2009) <herbert.saurugg@bmlvs.gv.at>;
mats: 14 to 24.73 to 15.5, kek
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can't speak for other distros, but the magic moment of gentoo beginning its slide into hitler's bunker is often said to be the time when the lead programmer went to work for microshit.
mircea_popescu: i can see it
asciilifeform: thus shattering the illusion that 'everything benefits from being written by folks with day jobs' and 'open source lives well on sunshine and kisses'
mircea_popescu: everything does benefit from being written by folks with day jobs.
mircea_popescu: it shouldn't be MANAGED by them, however.
mircea_popescu: the proof of the fact that people with dayjobs can't manage are the dayjobs in question.
asciilifeform: i regard it as far from proven fact that these are separable activities in software-making.
mircea_popescu: what'd the proof look like ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25839 @ 0.00061284 = 15.8352 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: say, example of 'good management' in that sphere that doesn't, when you scratch it, reveal itself to be a case of programming-with-human-compilers
asciilifeform: (a la steve jobs)
asciilifeform: or, alternatively, example some software artifact even vaguely worth using, to intelligent folks, that was ~produced under sound management~
mircea_popescu: can anything in b-a qualify ?
asciilifeform: as opposed to, y'know, some idler who just felt like it. (unix, c, hell, lisp)
asciilifeform: qualify as... ?
asciilifeform: as proof ?
asciilifeform: could. but none of the items i'm personally familiar with in depth do
mircea_popescu: as "sphere which..."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eulora, conceivably, but i don't know enough about how it was built, and precisely by whom, and to what kind of outcome, to say anything interesting
assbot: #Eulora log for Sunday, 2015-08-09 ... ( http://bit.ly/1PfB2VM )
asciilifeform: but thus far most of the software artifacts i personally see as making a computer worth using at all, were written by one (or handful) of people, and largely on stolen/embezzled employer time, and under no management whatsoever other than the 'emperor in their heads'
asciilifeform: ^ not intended to imply that ~all~ items created this way are worth using
asciilifeform: after all, egg is not the only thing that comes out of a chicken..
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1954 @ 0.00061194 = 1.1957 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: management is a complicated thing. like persay robinson crusoe (as depicted by defoe) was certainly managed.
mircea_popescu: well, he follows a script he carried over (in his memory), which was given him by people, rather than discovered by him on his own time.
asciilifeform: if this is 'managed', then a brick falling is 'managed'
mircea_popescu: kinda why it's very bad "fiction" : it presents us the nonsensical construct of a lone man that's part of the british empire.
mircea_popescu: for obvious ideological reasons, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: a brick falling is definitely managed.
asciilifeform: or what, i sit and write a sorter, and so i'm being managed by kerr knuth!?
asciilifeform: what honour!
asciilifeform: but i do not think this corresponds to the generally-understood meaning of the word 'management'
mircea_popescu: would you have wriutten the same sorter without him ?
mircea_popescu: depends generally understood by whom.
asciilifeform: conceivably. but would not be so tall without 'giant's shoulders'
mircea_popescu: !up dbit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform management as generally understood say by dilbert's strip is a sort of dour nagging.
mircea_popescu: management can also be understood as creation of proper schelling points
asciilifeform: i like to think of the more positive, stalin sense
mircea_popescu: (it's the view i moistly take)
mircea_popescu: and yes, that also.
dbit: mircea_popescu, can I have a Eulora account?
mircea_popescu: !rated dbit
assbot: dbit is not registered in WoT.
mircea_popescu: get in the wot first eh.
mircea_popescu: ^ see first steps article there
dbit: ok
mike_c: ;;rated dbit
gribble: You rated user dbit on Mon Jul 28 12:01:35 2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: None.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but i mean... you wouldn't propose the alarm clock is a manager would you.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-08-2015#1233014 and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-08-2015#1233009 then 'management' and 'programming skill' are entirely one and the same thing in that field.
assbot: Logged on 10-08-2015 03:02:39; mircea_popescu: management can also be understood as creation of proper schelling points
assbot: Logged on 10-08-2015 03:00:47; mircea_popescu: would you have wriutten the same sorter without him ?
mircea_popescu: the derps may call it "A time management device", but hey.
asciilifeform: in that one creates artifacts that become foundational for future people.
mircea_popescu: dbit oh if you already have a key just need it passed to assbot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect you misnomer management as "programming skill"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually i happen to regard the alarm clock as the single most destructively irritating thing in my entire existence
mircea_popescu: programming skill is necessarily "having preloaded in your head which words make bash not do this particular stupid thing"
asciilifeform: that's rather like saying that 'literary skill is good penmanship'
asciilifeform: yes, related. no, not equivalent.
mircea_popescu: there is definitely a lot of management involved in being a competent computer handler, by the nature of the thing
mircea_popescu: i guess this resolves our standing dispute re whores/programmers. turns out it was a misunderstanding.
asciilifeform: not sure if involved. at least in the usual sense. thing isn't a horse, or dog, more like a very ill-tuned piano
asciilifeform: it doesn't respond to incentives
asciilifeform: only massaging
mircea_popescu: management is not psychiatry.
mircea_popescu: you manage factories (also ill tuned pianos) not individual women on their period.
asciilifeform: but if your colleagues are insane ?
asciilifeform: then - psychiatry.
mircea_popescu: everything bleeds over a little, but still./
asciilifeform: aaaaaaaaaaand....
asciilifeform: gcd==141733920801; Luciano Buszmicz (Never forget: 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.) <lbuszmicz@zimbra.itx.net>;
mircea_popescu: lol did you manage talking lobbes into letting you do these by hand ?
asciilifeform: ;;later tell lobbes can we has the bot back plz ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
hanbot: the ml patching guide (http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000067.html) step 0x07] Clean Source Base involves manifests which i take it are part of the guide's referenced patch tarballs. given the stator patch battery is single .patch file only, how's one to handle this step (and why does guide assume patch will come in ball?)?
asciilifeform had no part in writing the linked recipe
asciilifeform: and hanbot did you notice that this guide long pre-dates stator ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00063094 = 3.0285 BTC [+] {2}
hanbot: i did. is there a new&improved patching guide? i missed it if so
asciilifeform: i am unaware of it
asciilifeform: unless the automatic script created by ben_vulpes is one
asciilifeform: (i have not, unfortunately, tested the latter)
assbot: [BTC-dev] UPDATE: v0.5.4-TEST2 Pre-patched Test Bundle : TestersNeeded! ... ( http://bit.ly/1DEslTm )
asciilifeform: but not a patching guide, rather, patches were applied. but it tells you which, and you can obtain previous release tarball, apply them yourself, and compare the result.
hanbot: i think ben_vulpes' thingy was solely for dependencies + release, sans patching, could be wrong.
hanbot: i'll have a look at the test2 bit.
asciilifeform: hanbot: what are you trying to build ?
asciilifeform: i might be able to help
dbit: !register DEF6F884324D1E384DC09C97F2CBD75211F125B2
assbot: Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: DEF6F884324D1E384DC09C97F2CBD75211F125B2. This may take a few moments.
assbot: Key 11F125B2 / "David Cirello <dbit3434@gmail.com>" successfully imported.
assbot: Registration successful.
hanbot: still want to build stator, "manually": 0.5.3.1 release + six-patch battery required to achieve stator. verified release will run on my (32bit) ubuntu box w/ mod6. so now, patching (for which i was following said guide, all six patches sha1sum & sig verified)
dbit: !up
dbit: !up dbit
trinque: dbit: /msg assbot !up
trinque: but you already are.
dbit: mircea_popescu, ok I got registered
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36703 @ 0.00063095 = 23.1578 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10441 @ 0.00063093 = 6.5875 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: hanbot: yes, fails spectacularly to produce a bitcoin and makes the operator take over patching at that point.
mircea_popescu: ok dbit one sec
ben_vulpes: provides, however, all tools to compile bitcoin
ben_vulpes: kicking off a new run, phf
phf: ben_vulpes: one sec, i almost pushed another patch
ben_vulpes: ah shoot
ben_vulpes: and by 'kicking off' i mean 'kicked off 2 minutes ago and was distracted by lawgz'
phf: haha
ben_vulpes: anyways, hit me up when you push your patch
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i did eventually succeed with the rotor/stator combo
phf: a build process tool, relaytool, used in some ungodly way to produce a dynamic libraries during build. uses bash to work and is so specified in #!... configure wants to run it by explicitly providing bash /bin/bash ./bin/relaytool. somehow doesn't detect bash, so calls /bin/sh instead, which puts bash in sh emulation mode and breaks relaytool. this, and much more, in todays adventures with eulora builds!
assbot: how-i-feel-rn ... ( http://bit.ly/1TiZu95 )
phf: this is sasha grey level of whoring programmer/whore depravity
ben_vulpes: you like it
ben_vulpes: don't lie
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21189 @ 0.00062635 = 13.2717 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: programmering is beyond learned helplessness
ben_vulpes: it's learned masochism
ben_vulpes off to welcome $bizpartner back from a week's vacation
assbot: dpaste: 2QT18RW ... ( http://bit.ly/1TiZFRQ )
mircea_popescu: ima meet you in game in a bit give you some starter stuff.
dbit: thank you
mircea_popescu: !rate dbit 1 Eulorian
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d0fff3d78fd1c01c
phf: oh right 9pm on west coast
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.dbit.1:f9c0e65452e21e9f222864a8a209c03aa4eb166fdcc2e374893948aae2f71014
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for dbit with note: Eulorian
mircea_popescu: phf nuts omg.
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