Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-07-29 | 2015-07-31 → ↓
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 03:02:01; decimation: lol 'rotor' immediately fails on osx 10.10 with "You need at least one UTF8 locale to build a toolchain supporting locales"
asciilifeform: and fuck crapple
asciilifeform: it can burn in hell.
asciilifeform: ferfuckssake, WHY do folks persist in trying to develop on retarded osen ?
asciilifeform: why, why ???
asciilifeform: it takes what, ten minutes to install 'centos 6.5' ?
asciilifeform: which is not sexy, not gentooitic, no, but behaves ~reasonably~
decimation: heh I hear you man
decimation: but I have old crapple laptops that I would like to use
decimation: without losing laptop features like sleep
asciilifeform: go, use.
decimation: well, use as bitcoind hosts
asciilifeform: i won't presume to tell other people to use, or not use.
decimation: macports does a pretty good job of porting standard gnu chain to apple
decimation: but they have thier own binary format, etc
asciilifeform: but ~i personally~ will from now on support ~only~ rotor. and soon after, only rotolinux (buildroot for arbitrary arch that includes therealbitcoin and its deps, and toolchain to reconstruct self and the latter.)
decimation: it's a reasonable line
asciilifeform: i will not support vms on vax.
asciilifeform: i will not support soviet pdp-11.
asciilifeform: i will not support mactardation.
asciilifeform: who wants - can.
decimation: in theory it could build
decimation: in practice - hell
asciilifeform: ars longa, vita brevis (tm) (r)
decimation: although I wonder if it will work on any bsd
decimation: probably not
asciilifeform: somebody (mod6?) had it on openbsd
mod6: ya, mine's sync'ing now.
decimation: somehow this xattr stuff must be magicked away
decimation: mod6: you got rotor to build?
mod6: it's going slow, but -verifyall and to usbdrive
mod6: oh, no. stator.
mod6: + other patches
asciilifeform: i will repeat that rotor binary ~is expected to work on all linux from 2.6+~
decimation: I did that a long time ago
asciilifeform: because static.
asciilifeform: and uses nothing whatsoever but the kernel abi!
mod6: i'll have to take another crack at rotor after month end.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah but mac uses mach-o
assbot: Mach-O - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1H4BNdJ )
decimation: some bsd supports linux binaries I think
asciilifeform: who wants - please, do, port to mac, vax, silicongraphics, cray.
asciilifeform: but - i will not. i have other work!
decimation wishes I had an old mips sun box
asciilifeform: sun never, afaik, sold a mips
decimation: I thought sparc was derived from mips
mod6: on fbsd there is a linuxcompat kernmod -- but it has issues if you make too many i386 syscalls in your linux code. *shrug*
asciilifeform: genealogically common ancestor, iirc.
asciilifeform: but not derived
decimation: ah I see
mod6: rotolinux sounds awesome btw.
asciilifeform: draft name
decimation: redhat 6 is actually a pretty reasonable os, once you kill the poetteringisms
asciilifeform: it doesn't even deserve a name
asciilifeform: decimation: not decent at all. but ~works~ for this example
asciilifeform: (decent starts
asciilifeform: , at minimum,
asciilifeform: with being able to rebuild 100% of self, from included src
asciilifeform: without downloading anything
decimation: it can do that
decimation: but only if you download
decimation: and there's no bootstrap scripts as far as I know
decimation: redhat still ships with source dvd, if you download and burn the isos
asciilifeform: fuck that
asciilifeform: everything in one iso.
decimation: heh it's like 9 gigs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37800 @ 0.00052581 = 19.8756 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: there ARE NOT 9 GB of useful src
asciilifeform: period.
decimation: true. someone build centos though, so it must be possible
decimation: obvious unsupported by distro though
asciilifeform: i am also considering bellard's 'tcc' ( http://bellard.org/tcc )
asciilifeform: which can build kernel at boot time (!)
asciilifeform: and, perhaps, other things
asciilifeform: so, at the risk of repeating myself, i gotta agree with mircea_popescu here and respectfully disagree with mod6
asciilifeform: this thing will go nowhere if we declare the gnarliest problem (build) a non-problem
asciilifeform: must have a guaranteed, canonical build
asciilifeform: yes, even if this means we end up maintaining a kernel.
decimation: and the argument for linux?
asciilifeform: and a gcc fork.
decimation: has the widest hardware support?
asciilifeform: we don't need most of it
asciilifeform: (the hardware)
asciilifeform: so long as we have a cpu, a nic, and a block device, we're golden on the given set
asciilifeform: there are not so many cpu, nic, or block devices in circulation today.
asciilifeform: i have considered, for instance, a move to 'minix'
asciilifeform: shortest kernel that bitcoin could sit down on is probably some variant of minix
decimation: heh I didn't realize it still existed
decimation: It would be interesting to see what weird stuff like 'green hills os' looks like
BingoBoingo: I'm looking forward to March of 2017 where at this rate Bitcoin successfully becomes a device.
asciilifeform: decimation: probably something like qnx
asciilifeform: but i will never know
decimation: there's a long way from minix to hardware
asciilifeform: because it is a commercial platinum toilet
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, I know
asciilifeform: decimation: as i said, not so much hardware to support
decimation: it would be interesting to see what golden toilet prices buys in terms of os
decimation: yeah it's not the hardware, it's the logic
decimation: I was meaning 'compile to vhdl'
asciilifeform: decimation: the classical bitcoind, unfortunately, ~does~ require threading - and thus, a slice scheduler
decimation: indeed.
asciilifeform: also needs support for large (modern) block devices
asciilifeform: of several common bus variants
BingoBoingo: <decimation> It would be interesting to see what weird stuff like 'green hills os' looks like << Probably just like 64-bit DOS
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mno
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it is rather more like 'qnx' or 'vxworks'
asciilifeform: small and vaguely unixlike animal
decimation: but supposedly is 'proven secure'
decimation: probably with a giant pile of asterisks describing assumptions
asciilifeform: decimation: it isn't an ada or otherwise proofy system
asciilifeform: but rather something more like 'iso cert'
decimation: redhat 6, for instance, achieves 'eal level 4'
decimation: but you need to have the most minimal, stripped down version possible to meet
asciilifeform: where there was a massive pile of usg paperwork, killing - literally - a forest
asciilifeform: documenting ~parliamentary procedure~ of its making
decimation: "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
decimation: That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
decimation: And then is heard no more: it is a tale
decimation: Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
decimation: Signifying nothing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105531 @ 0.00053625 = 56.591 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: Chapter 11. Security, Standards and Certification ... ( http://bit.ly/1H4DOGL )
asciilifeform: i can't bring myself to even try to read this.
decimation: don't bother
decimation: the summary is that you gotta go through about 50 pages of 'rotor build instructions' to even start to reach the 'eal4' state
asciilifeform: why would i give half a fuck about usg ceremonies
asciilifeform: let the archaeologists concern themselves with them
asciilifeform: in 2000 years.
decimation: the irony being that it only applies to rhel 6.2, full of well known holes
asciilifeform: thoroughly, stultifyingly unsurprising
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu didja ever get your magic bitcoind synced again /
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform wiped out, off to bed
decimation: the stator I built a month ago is almost to 335k
decimation: err, kicked off
BingoBoingo: !up mitzip
lobbes: ;;later tell asciilifeform Did some research and looks like I'm going to have to actually edit the plugin for supybot RSS in order to get lobbesbot to store history. I know SQL, but not python. In other words, I gotta teach myself how to make it insert into a table, and check it before spitting out RSS feeds. I'll keep you posted. But for now, I sleep.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: mod6: https://community.oracle.com/thread/2322618?tstart=0 << here's somebody bitching about the rotor db build error we saw... on solaris
assbot: Problem installing Berkeley DB 5.2.36 on Solari... | Oracle Community ... ( http://bit.ly/1IMtiv8 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63346 @ 0.00053991 = 34.2011 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 266150 @ 0.0005263 = 140.0747 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164050 @ 0.00051818 = 85.0074 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 328850 @ 0.00054849 = 180.3709 BTC [+] {9}
trinque: asciilifeform: mod6: ben_vulpes: hey, I fixed rotor.sh on my box by adding --host=x86_64-linux to the configure step for bdb
trinque: happily munching block atm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118473 @ 0.00051449 = 60.9532 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22145 @ 0.00050697 = 11.2269 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: boost also barfs about a number of targets, none of which seem to have mattered.
trinque: 128k
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32100 @ 0.00054962 = 17.6428 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74700 @ 0.00050643 = 37.8303 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54850 @ 0.00051137 = 28.0486 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69300 @ 0.00052409 = 36.3194 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57947 @ 0.00052821 = 30.6082 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: !up lobbes
shinohai: gm BingoBoingo, you the only bloke awake at this hour?
BingoBoingo: Maybe?
BingoBoingo: Working on a qntra piece
shinohai: Great, I need something good to read. All I have read is utter shit this week.
BingoBoingo: Dunno if it will be a long one yet. Just been a kinda quiet week Bitcoin news wise
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22862 @ 0.00052531 = 12.0096 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 288.0, vol: 9735.82879160 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 283.8, vol: 4578.06517 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 287.99, vol: 12727.2270398 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 297.5, vol: 3.37005857 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 285.5657, vol: 13235.33640000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 289.235, vol: 36.13133979 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 289.60386, vol: 46.73892814 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 286.725993855
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119693 @ 0.00051164 = 61.2397 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Cecil (lion) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1VORuk9 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105221 @ 0.00051803 = 54.5076 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: Nice spin on that BingoBoingo. Team America, world police strikes again.
BingoBoingo: Or, they want to
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 269800 @ 0.00052232 = 140.9219 BTC [+] {5}
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
assbot: draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00 - Advisory Guidelines for UDP Deployment ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCwhrY )
BingoBoingo: This looks like a promising userland http://tools.suckless.org/9base
assbot: 9base | suckless.org tools ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCwmvO )
BingoBoingo: jurov: lols all around
punkman: "If UDP must be used, encapsulate it in IPsec [RFC4303] to avoid matching IP protocol 17 filters."
punkman: mhmm
assbot: Sharp Plans to Launch DC-powered Air Conditioner in 2015 - Nikkei Technology Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1KABPSh )
shinohai: "In the continuing quest to increase block size and reduce bandwidth issues, Gavin plans to integrate blockchain sync by carrier pigeon in the next release of BitcoinXT"
punkman: BingoBoingo: why's that interesting?
BingoBoingo: punkman: because Edison gets his revenge
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 5250 @ 0.00111 = 5.8275 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129875 @ 0.00053085 = 68.9441 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94813 @ 0.0005335 = 50.5827 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: AH, I started reading it before scoopy found it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79800 @ 0.00052563 = 41.9453 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16697 @ 0.00052463 = 8.7597 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58869 @ 0.00053464 = 31.4737 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: If I were a derpy redditor, I would tip mp for that article. One of my favorite yet.
jurov: oh, mp just sooo likes to imagine how actual humans will be separated from dumb beasts
jurov: every time i asked how, eventually it boiled down to depend on retroactivity
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62981 @ 0.00053637 = 33.7811 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50200 @ 0.00054961 = 27.5904 BTC [+] {2}
shinohai: It's interesting to think about. I just like the summary of Christianity - which, because I live in that "One Nation under GAWD" I get rather sick of hearing the masses go on about.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81900 @ 0.00055297 = 45.2882 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00055542 = 28.4375 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: !up The20YearIRCloud
The20YearIRCloud: howdy punkman
punkman: sweating it out down here
The20YearIRCloud: Why/where?
punkman: cause it's hot
punkman: in south greece
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 06:32:42; trinque: asciilifeform: mod6: ben_vulpes: hey, I fixed rotor.sh on my box by adding --host=x86_64-linux to the configure step for bdb
shinohai: Same here punkman, was like 40 yesterday evening. :/
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217682 << in the land of the demented clowns, it is ~always~ april the first. except, the chainsaw is real, and blade is sharp, and the pretty gurl really ~does~ get cut in half !!
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 10:48:40; jurov: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00 i had to check it isn't 1st april
punkman: heh
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 11:00:08; punkman: "If UDP must be used, encapsulate it in IPsec [RFC4303] to avoid matching IP protocol 17 filters."
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu check it out, usg read the gossipd logs, and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217682
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 10:48:40; jurov: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00 i had to check it isn't 1st april
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: obligatory: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=208 << where we are headed.
assbot: Loper OS » “The Internet of the Future” ... ( http://bit.ly/1fKTNnm )
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2015 01:52:06; asciilifeform: mats: and given that authentication happens on receipt of first packet - with antireplay nonce - unscannable for (you can't tell if a machine is a brick, a live box refusing to relay ping, or a gossip-udp node)
shinohai: asciilifeform: have any good recommended reading for learning how to use buildroot ?
asciilifeform: shinohai: only the official manual
asciilifeform: shinohai: but you don't really need the manual unless you are doing something more clever than anything i've done so far
shinohai: Well, I know what I gotta do thisweekend.
shinohai: I had no problem installing, etc. per instructions. Now it is just using it to do actually build something.
shinohai: strike *do*
asciilifeform: 'In the case of WebRTC [I-D.draft-ietf-rtcweb-transports], TURN [RFC5766] should be used to concentrate and manage a known-good UDP flows.' <<< ahahaha, 'pleeez herd all yer packetz through usg middleman box'
asciilifeform: this is just precious.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 12:13:43; jurov: every time i asked how, eventually it boiled down to depend on retroactivity
asciilifeform: ;;later tell trinque please consider submitting patch to the ml !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
lobbesbot: New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=12884901891 (PGP Corporation Update Signing Key; PGP Corporation Update Signing Key ; ) <http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB#F79436B629322C70C523BAA5BE0D3D4DDA011578F84122B8CA3ABD15C52A9567>
asciilifeform: ;;later tell lobbes it is probably best to unplug that thing until you fix it
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: lobbesbot needs a lobotomy xD
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mnope.
mircea_popescu: re http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00#page-3 < i think it's a fabulous idea. udp belongs the same place finger, telnet and email belong. the scrapheap of a different world, one where undergrads did not have internet access.
assbot: draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00 - Advisory Guidelines for UDP Deployment ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCSyG0 )
mircea_popescu: once aol was allowed online, it necessarily followed no udp. i'm sick of having to deal with it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: single-packet auth is the only gossipd worth using.
mircea_popescu: i wish it were made a law that no isp may provide udp connectivity for a price under the minimum wage.
mircea_popescu: you can have single packet auth outside of udp.
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: you realise UDP is essential for a number of services and that they wouldn't function using TCP, right?
asciilifeform: whether it is done with udp as such or raw ip (i.e. udp with protocol field set to 666) is immaterial
mircea_popescu: Azelphur fuck them all.
mircea_popescu: and no ntp either.
mircea_popescu: i don't care what you need. fuck you and your needs. the infrastructure can't support udp in the current configuration. you don't get udp for this reason.
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: so fuck most VOIP services, Games, and anything else that requires low latency without packet delivery confirmation? XD
mircea_popescu: you want upd, make it illegal for retards to connect.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42370 @ 0.00054411 = 23.0539 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: the infrastructure can't support ~anything~ in its current configuration.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not germane, even though valid.
Azelphur: Also, if anything UDP is lighter on the infrastructure than TCP
mircea_popescu: it is only lighter if used by responsible users.
mircea_popescu: until you get those, it's just a ddos haven.
asciilifeform: irresponsible users are to be unplugged.
mircea_popescu: do that, then i'll change my mind.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the thing about raw ip is that it typically requires os support
mircea_popescu: hey, im not saying there's a good alternative.
asciilifeform: and, more direly, well-behaved routing
mircea_popescu: im just saying you don't own the moon, is all.
mircea_popescu: whether its made of cheese or not.
asciilifeform: (it is much easier to filter, and will be filtered by usg infrastructure.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu prefers to be ddosed with tcp ?
mircea_popescu: yes. much easier to filter.
asciilifeform: i will say it again, the push against udp is usg disinfo. and everyone who buys into it should retreat to the library with a copy of richard stevens and think very carefully.
asciilifeform: it is physically impossible to get any easier to filter than udp-with-signature
asciilifeform: because: no state.
mircea_popescu: no dude, your solution is right. want "internet" ? sure, 50 dollars a month gets you gawker, washitpo and crapple dot com.
mircea_popescu: they do not belong outside of the walled gardens, keep em there.
Azelphur: Surely in that example most of your business would never have existed?
asciilifeform: and i suppose i will write letters to mircea_popescu and spirit them out in the rectums of pig carcasses loaded onto the great sailing ships ?
mircea_popescu: Azelphur the part of my business that consists of redditards opining would never have existed. to my benefit.
Azelphur: (No access to outside websites -> no access to Bitcoin -> Bitcoin never takes off)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the absence of a solution is not an argument in favour of shitpiles.
assbot: Bitcoin in Argentina : exactly nothing to do with the derps on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCTVVg )
mircea_popescu: if you imagine bitcoin took off because the muppets, you're inhabiting a very special place.
asciilifeform: routing tcp no-questions-asked while filtering packets that could be signature-authed without storing state is braindamaged.
asciilifeform: note that i'm all for rejecting unsigned udp
asciilifeform: (presently all of it)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so then we don't even disagree.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the link concerned ~infrastructure~. usg is trying so that when i get my signed udp, and try to send it to mircea_popescu, it won't leave my street even.
asciilifeform: this is different from 'i recommend that mircea_popescu filter all unsigned udp at his door'
mircea_popescu: you are aware the usg can't maintain infrastructure anyway, and if you persist in staying there you will one day connect to b-a via satellite phones provided by, likely, fucking spain.
asciilifeform: alcatel is usg to me
asciilifeform: and so is every oceanic fiber.
mircea_popescu: usg is arguing that "olympics are bad mkay, not because we can't afford anything, but because <<<gentrification>>>".
mircea_popescu: if you think the dispute as to how internet won't be available in the future in the us comes down to what anyone wants, usg or not usg...
asciilifeform: that is one usg, yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't see this picture where it is absent in us but somehow present in patagonia
mircea_popescu: as the bear was getting ready to stomp the anthill, the anthill in question was very animated by the following political debate : some ants wanted to tear down one wall, while some other ants thought this is stupid.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, because you bought into the ridoinculous "us=world" nonsense.
mircea_popescu: tell you what, it'll fall into the ocean and nobody'll even notice.
asciilifeform: as far as the machines are concerned, this is actually true
mircea_popescu: i guess you get to see the wonder to believe the wonder then.
asciilifeform: recall thread with chinese si fabs running winblowz ?
mircea_popescu: recall the thread with the sluts living there wearing "D&G" purses ?
asciilifeform: i dare to suggest that there is not a single transoceanic line or satellite in orbit that usg could not arbitrarily diddle, or remove entirely, at their pleasure.
mircea_popescu: and also beat up superman.
mircea_popescu: tu-tu-tuuuut!
mircea_popescu: looky here : "there's no blade of grass in the forest that the doe could not shit on, at its pleasure". perhaps. fact : grass will grow through where the antlers were, and not know the difference.
asciilifeform: ultimately - certain
mircea_popescu: not that far off, either.
asciilifeform: everybody gets 'ozymandiased' in the end.
mircea_popescu: all the diddling it's gonna do, it mostly did already.
asciilifeform: recall the thread re: the 120 mains voltage ?
mircea_popescu: they're just broadly speaking acultural and unseflwarare enough, unlike the romans, so they don't spend three centuries waxing poetic over this understood situation
mircea_popescu: because too thick to understand it.
asciilifeform: some kinds of damage - stick around, long after the antlers have grown with grass.
mircea_popescu: to me 120 v is nothing but a quaint curio.
mircea_popescu: like reddit.
asciilifeform: check again once copper costs what silver does.
asciilifeform: this is not a win.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, this happens with some regularity in history
mircea_popescu: might be what, the 12th time maybe
asciilifeform: the times prior to mains current don't count.
mircea_popescu: because why ?
asciilifeform: because copper was negotiable.
asciilifeform: but efficiency and cost of cable aside,
asciilifeform: 120v is no mere curio to the folks in the u.s. or post-u.s. world whose cities burn on account of pinched-cable-and-too-many-amps
asciilifeform: a daily occurrence
asciilifeform: which is precisely twice as probably on 120v as 240
asciilifeform: *probable
mircea_popescu: i'm sure all sorts of things are not daily curious to various troglodytes.
mircea_popescu: raped-for-being-white is, i hear, a fact of life for the losers of the 3rd boer war
mircea_popescu: still, a quaint curio for me.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had 240 run to his flat ?
mircea_popescu: oh, you mean for my brief stay there ?
asciilifeform: wherever living now
mircea_popescu: all the world is on 220 you know.
asciilifeform was warned that he might encounter both american and civilized voltage in ar
asciilifeform not certain whether this is actual problem there or not
mircea_popescu: i guess you could get 120 if you absolutely want it, via generators
asciilifeform: jp, notably, is a 120 land
asciilifeform: for reasons of conquest
mircea_popescu: so is american samoa. what of it.
asciilifeform: what of it, is that this 'gift keeps on giving' even after washington is buried in the sand.
mircea_popescu: i don't see it.
asciilifeform: like unix
mircea_popescu: just because some colonies have mental issues it does not follow anything except that some colonists need to extract head from ass.
asciilifeform: when extracting head from ass means 'you get to rebuild the things no one knows how to build now'
mircea_popescu: lmao check it out, liberia as well. that poor country.
lobbes: @rss announce list
lobbesbot: lobbes: Error: That's not a valid RSS feed command name.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, that's what it always means.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ergo, for so long as anyone has the choice of '120v or hunt rats by candlelight', there will be 120v around
asciilifeform: so - for martian, nothing of interest. for us earthlings who live in a world not entirely of our own creation - everything.
mircea_popescu: i imagine as long as "9 volt batteries or hunt rats by candlelight" is the choice, there's going to be a lot of "9 volt" systems out there too.
mircea_popescu: why's anyone's poverty, intellectual or otherwise, a criterion ?
asciilifeform: for same reason x86 is a criterion.
asciilifeform: same deal incidentally
mircea_popescu: not in the slightest.
mircea_popescu: x86 makes sense. 120 volt is trivially abstracted away by two step transformers.
mircea_popescu: there's no alternative to x86 on the table.
asciilifeform: but they stick around for same reason
lobbes: @rss remove phuctor
lobbesbot: lobbes: Error: That's not a valid RSS feed command name.
asciilifeform: (not everything is a dc power supply with arbitrary input !)
mircea_popescu: nah. one sticks around because it works. the other because it's the best alternative. you don't like either of them, it's true, but that fact does not alter the reality.
mircea_popescu: one's a champ, the other's a hanger on.
asciilifeform: x86 'works' is perhaps the ultimate illusion.
asciilifeform: 'supports winblowz and unix' is not 'works'
asciilifeform: it sticks around because 'market' is a braindead slave to its own past, like pregnant cow
mircea_popescu: perhaps. whatd you have it run ?
asciilifeform: just pointing out the incongruity of 'x86 is winner'
asciilifeform: the situation of 'drivers', for instance, is quite analogous to situation where every block of flats has own voltage, frequency, and mains socket shape that the landlord felt like drawing on a napkin.
mircea_popescu: dja see the difference between "hmm, i intuit in my urine that x86 sucks" and "lolut, 120v?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i see a difference of degree only
mircea_popescu: there's no alternative in a "moore's law" shithole, for very good reasons.
mircea_popescu: now that that curse's dead and buried, we can actually design this shit.
mircea_popescu: there wasn't much in the way of sane transportation routes in the fronteer, either.
trinque: asciilifeform: I did a binary diff between your binary posted to the ML and mine using bsdiff; the result was about 60kb
asciilifeform: trinque: you will notice that gcc embeds turds
trinque: might be interesting to inspect it and see what's different
asciilifeform: trinque: i did this experiment, and found quite a few variations (machine version strings - srsly, wtf gcc ? an automated annihilator for these is a necessity) ; optimizations
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider how rapidly bitcoin mining ditched the cpu, and then the gpu, to get a feel of just how unstable this domination you perceive is.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was no legacy lockin in bitcoin !
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: any idea why qntra snarfed my comment ? i tried posting again but i'm being told it's a "duplicate". somehow stuck in moderation ?
mircea_popescu: except computing.
mircea_popescu: and microsoft fucking visual studio.
asciilifeform: in mining in particular.
mircea_popescu: there's no lockin in computing generally.
mircea_popescu: just as soon as the economics make sense, your x86 nemesis is gone. two years, tops.
mircea_popescu: now make the economics work.
asciilifeform: arm == x86 for my purposes.
asciilifeform: out with old hardwaremicroshit, in with new, same.
asciilifeform: where is the boundschecking cpu ?
asciilifeform: nowhere.
asciilifeform: though it existed in 1976.
mircea_popescu: same place the usable docs for bitcoin are.
mircea_popescu: waiting.
lobbes: @rss announce remove http://nosuchlabs.com/rss
lobbesbot: lobbes: The operation succeeded.
lobbes: there, no more spammy
mircea_popescu: could it just do the announcements once ?
lobbes: williamdunne: if your bot can store teh history, feel free to take over. If not, then first one there wins, I guess ;/
decimation: lol being against udp is like being against IP
lobbes: well, I'm using the default 'supybot' RSS plugin
lobbes: which, I guess doesn't store history
mircea_popescu: lobbes and it has no storage ? aha
lobbes: aye, I'ma have to edit teh python
mircea_popescu: so any idea what causes the replay ?
punkman: it has but no persistence
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: me restarting phuctor
asciilifeform: causes the replay.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so if i restart trilema, it doesn't pop them out again
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i haven't any notion as to ~why~
mircea_popescu: does your restart fuck up the rss feed, such as by altering the dates it displays ?
asciilifeform: not on my end !
asciilifeform: i suspect that lobbesbot has an elementary bug where it allows rss feed to ratchet backwards
asciilifeform: i.e. loads a momentarily-down phuctor and says 'null set'
asciilifeform: then diffs from this null set when it comes back.
lobbes: I do notice the dates change on phuctor RSS
lobbes: when restart happens
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so the rss feed is exactly identical pre and post restart. how would the bot know something changed then
lobbes: but bot should still be able to handle
asciilifeform: lobbes: i warned many times that the dates on phuctor are meaningless
lobbes nods
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't get to respecify rss eh
mircea_popescu: people use prepackaged software
asciilifeform: i did warn.
asciilifeform: there is no field in the db presently for 'time when phuctored'
asciilifeform: there is ONLY time-submitted.
asciilifeform: i explained this in agonizing detail. it is in the log.
mircea_popescu: ok, so could it be that the lobbesbot sees new dates decides new articles ?
decimation: the only sane way to track diffs would be to keep the entire history then
lobbes: yeah, I think that is the problem, which it should be able to handle
asciilifeform: decimation: simply storing the last 20 or so would do it
mircea_popescu: yeah this scheme doesn't lend itself to much rss ing
lobbes: it should use the url as a PK
asciilifeform: but even simpler fix,
asciilifeform: DO NOT EVER RATCHET BACK!
asciilifeform: it is RETARDED
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's "back" when you don't keep time yo.
lobbes agrees
asciilifeform: 'back' is 'item is in memory cache but now isn't there when i load, it must have un-happened'
decimation: which is why you need the entire state
mircea_popescu: yeah, srsly.
asciilifeform: lobbesbot ~does~ keep a cache,
asciilifeform: i know this because it is not spewing same thing every five minutes
mircea_popescu: lobbes can you discern if he has a point, does the cache get 0'd out if it looks at a zero feed ?
asciilifeform: the only way it could possibly work as it presently does is by storing ~some~ history
lobbes: hmm, that is true
asciilifeform: considering that ~every single phuctored key so far~ is dated june, or may even
mircea_popescu: and speaking of udp : fucking dns definitely must go away. stupidest kludge o nthe whole internet.
asciilifeform: it is also the foremost usg organ
asciilifeform: of the direct, unabashed kind
decimation: yes, ascii's wot-signed udp would be the first application for ip-to-namespace
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
asciilifeform: what i'd really like to see is what mircea_popescu proposes i use for single-packet auth that 1) isn't udp 2) existing net will reliably route 3) existing os will agree to emit without any new code running as root
asciilifeform: and 4) isn't readily and easily flagged and filtered as 't3rr0r1st net' by 90% of world's isp
decimation: ascii has a point here ^
decimation: udp can't be easily distinguished, and this is a gossipd-flavor
decimation: in fact, you need not put the true address of the recipient in the ip header as long as you can arrange to be somewhere to 'hear' it
asciilifeform: it is tcp which is the ultimate braindamage.
decimation: pretending that you have a connection on a completely 'broadcast' media is fucktarded
asciilifeform: bringing back state and 'i just showed up and you have no idea who i am but can i pleeez have some bytes of storage'
asciilifeform: like the fucking orphan blox
decimation: and it's not exactly like it is hard to game the tcp state machine
asciilifeform: any protocol where someone gets something, anything more expensive than a bullet, for showing up at the gate,
asciilifeform: is ipso facto retarded.
decimation: you ban udp, and you are just gonna get syn floods
asciilifeform: no exceptions.
asciilifeform: the unfortunate place we're going to is where gossip packets can only be emitted, received, or routed by os that we personally issue; and will only travel on cables to and from mircea_popescu's house
asciilifeform: this is, i argue, an avoidable calamity
asciilifeform: and the way to avoid it is by resisting, unconditionally, any and all seemingly-reasonable suggestions by usg tools to constrict the permissible set of the net.
asciilifeform: for whatever reason.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35368 @ 0.00054084 = 19.1284 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: ddos only exists because of usg. as in, deliberate decision to route maladdressed packets, infrastructurally.
asciilifeform: and it is part of a 'good cop & bad cop' act
asciilifeform: don't fall for the 'good cop'
asciilifeform: who tells that 'all will be well' if only you agree to limit net to tiny permissible set of stateful protocolz
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: realize that udp ddoes only ever existed because the net is willing to route packets 'from victim's' machine to the idiot tv boxes, who 'answer' them
asciilifeform: this is the one and only reason it was ever possible.
asciilifeform: usg never liked the lack of inspectorial insight that udp creates. so they have deliberately set up this situation, long ago
asciilifeform: they would much rather that everyone announce, for usg's ease of snoopage, when they are beginning to speak, and to whom, for how long, which order the bytes lay down in.
asciilifeform: as tcp forces.
mircea_popescu: dude srsly. the fact that jews favour marriage is no argument pro or against.
mircea_popescu: udp is braindamaged in that it requires a certain sort of world.
mircea_popescu: either provide it the sort of world it requires or visit its grave.
asciilifeform: except that it doesn't
mircea_popescu: what the usg does or doesn't do, wants or doesn't want, etc is irrelevant to everything, usg included.
decimation is confused how any criticism of udp doesn't apply directly to any 'higher' ip protocol
mircea_popescu: decimation upd is hard to filter.
asciilifeform: it is relevant to having created this bizarre situation where mircea_popescu thinks that tcp somehow solves ANY of the problems discussed earlier
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you said yourself it's easier to filter!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very easy to filter: reject anything that isn't a valid gossipd packet addressed to your key
mircea_popescu: i gotta check keys. takes memory allocation. ddos.
asciilifeform: no allocation!
decimation: preallocated
mircea_popescu: ahaha what.
asciilifeform: statically allocated buffer
asciilifeform: can verify packets at line speed.
asciilifeform: (not even speaking of fpga variant here)
decimation: no need for cpu either
decimation: but oculd have in first instance
mircea_popescu: dude get out srsly. i had dedicated machinery go down because random muppet + udp.
mircea_popescu: what are you even on about.
decimation: how many of the muppet's packets were signed?
mircea_popescu: me to isp "turn off fucking udp altogether, it's stupid" isp to me "you'll have toi buy the trunk"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your machinery goes down even when you instruct it to drop all udp on the floor ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the sort of machine that currently goes down is well i nthe six figure range.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you gotta understand the protocol stack.
mircea_popescu: getting EVERYONE to entirely drop udp as a matter of policy would be a huge gain for me.
decimation: I process 1 gigE udp at line rate on commodity server
mircea_popescu: decimation any time you wanna try processing 2-5mps let me know.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so then you get flooded with TCP SYNs. same difference.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope, those i filter ok.
decimation: or acks
mircea_popescu: neither.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but not udp?
mircea_popescu: udp is the problem atm.
asciilifeform: throw out your filter then
asciilifeform: and get new one
asciilifeform: because SAME FUCKING COMPUTATIONAL LOAD
asciilifeform: to filter tcp syn vs empty udp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform stop being theoretical on me. sure same load, not same amplification available.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is going to create a syn flood for you.
asciilifeform: who else.
mircea_popescu: seriously, this discussion is asymmetrical.
mircea_popescu: i handle about two ddos attacks a week.
mircea_popescu: you maybe think about the theory of datagrams once a week.
asciilifeform: not as theoretical as mircea_popescu might think
mircea_popescu: in any case : if it were the rule that udp gets dropped universally, i wouldn't have to have above convo with provider.
asciilifeform: and never see gossipd
mircea_popescu: i'd count this as a plus.
mircea_popescu: ima see gossipd alright. atm, the infrastructure is not the problem.
mircea_popescu: it being written is the problem. as always.
asciilifeform: over what single-packet proto ?
mircea_popescu: excel to excel viruses!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ftr, i am noit proposing orphan-block TCP is any better. shouldreally be TCP/OB
mircea_popescu: nevertheless...
mircea_popescu: no solutions available does not make shit palatable.
mircea_popescu: i still wish udp died, and with it all the "Services" it provides. starting with dns, ntp and come to think about it
mircea_popescu: it's a fucking wonder "locales" don't somehow udp.
decimation: ntp has a fucktarded exploit - that makes neither 'exchange of time' nor 'udp' retarded
mircea_popescu: ntp IS a fucktarded exploit. of itself.
mircea_popescu: i find it kinda curious that asciilifeform and decimation can at the same time hold the discussion of political time we had recently in mind, and ALSO think breaking udp, or doing away with ntp is a bad idea.
mircea_popescu: what, jam tomorrow, maybe one day ima get gossipd over udp, perhaps, who knows ? meanwhile half the remaining usg online is BASED, and requires udp to survive at all ?
mircea_popescu: paint my nails and call me mary what the fuck is this.
mircea_popescu: no more udp => no more dns, no more ntp. win of all fucking time, i'd pay to see this happen tomorrow.
jurov: before udp, this originally happened to icmp, which then got filtered routinely... little did that help
mircea_popescu: also true.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57400 @ 0.00053864 = 30.9179 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: some providers can in fact drop all incoming udp traffic per ip.
decimation: I thought this was pretty standard for 'adult' cloud services
decimation: amazon aws certainly will not pass anything unless firewall is configured, for instance
kakobrekla: i wasnt talking about clold specifically.
decimation: it ought to be simply done in any standard router too
kakobrekla: i was in the place where mp is and they wouldnt do it.
kakobrekla: i moved.
mircea_popescu: decimation yes, unfortunately, yhet another advantage for shithole cloud. "hey, we drop udp at least". exactly the good cop bad cop alf was proposing. but i am not moving to fuckingf cloud, and im not using fucking cloudflare and so fucking om.
decimation: merely an example of an isp that can program routers
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i might. atm not really a big enough deal, whatever, some people can't read trilema for half a day or w/e. but we were discussing the general point.
mircea_popescu: and the general point is udp does not belong.
decimation: so you are against single packet routing in general?
kakobrekla: he is coming back because he is getting that half hour.
mircea_popescu: no, i am against udp.
kakobrekla: as far as i can tell the attacker of qntra (trilema?) is the same as it was of bitbet last ddos.
kakobrekla: but my box did not go down.
kakobrekla: and i dont even have udp blocked.
mircea_popescu: do tell ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42487 @ 0.00054411 = 23.1176 BTC [+]
decimation fails to comprehend the difference between 'udp bad' and 'routing single ip packets good'
mircea_popescu: decimation udp is widely deployed in the hands of idiots.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm on a consumer fiber and, with modern hardware on my end (by no means six-figure), udp flood does not touch me.
mircea_popescu: everything that gives idiots voice is the avatar of evil.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did you ever have a decent one ?
kakobrekla: i am at online.net, recommended by davout (paymium). they have serveral levels of infrastructure to mitigate attacks.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as decent as it gets (line saturation)
mircea_popescu: jhahahaha
mircea_popescu: you're new, seriously.
asciilifeform: i mean, they can't walk in any faster than the 100Mb ethernet into the bldg
mircea_popescu: as decent as it gets = 500x line saturation three hops upstream.
mircea_popescu: yes, they can. they can send you a trillion packets in fifteen minutes.
mircea_popescu: because, again, udp.
asciilifeform: ok, those get dropped somewhere else
mircea_popescu: o i see.
kakobrekla: iirc server saw about 800 megs of the 5 gigabit incoming garbage
mircea_popescu: good for you.
asciilifeform: because how are they to walk in?
decimation: no, because ntp machines and misconfigured routers allow sending arbitrary packets
asciilifeform: through the window ?
mircea_popescu: they just take off the thing upstream. which IS six figures.
mircea_popescu: decimation fuck this "misconfigured" bs. because udp.
mircea_popescu: it is on its head.
asciilifeform: my isp clearly did not get defrauded in the same way as mircea_popescu's - because their six-figure machine does not as a result go down
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're basically falling fore the "shared hosting" bit
mircea_popescu: your isp never had the problem, is all.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not suggesting that everyone is to move to mordor and subscribe to this isp
mircea_popescu: feel safe all you want, and maybe you never get to matter enough to find out better.
asciilifeform: but will point out that the million-chump botnet can just as easily transmit syn flood as udp crud
decimation: ^ using misconfigured routers
asciilifeform: go, 'feel safe' because you went along with usg's transparent attempt to ban the only presently working single-packet transmission medium.
asciilifeform: ~they~ kick the dog
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu volunteers to shoot it, not realizing that the dog-kicker will kick every dog mircea_popescu ever bends to pet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not the "million chump botnet"
mircea_popescu: it's the dumbass services currently sitting on udp.
mircea_popescu: and you've never answered ot the main point here. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218091
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 14:57:20; mircea_popescu: i find it kinda curious that asciilifeform and decimation can at the same time hold the discussion of political time we had recently in mind, and ALSO think breaking udp, or doing away with ntp is a bad idea.
kakobrekla: you are all being theoretical. in practice you stop udp at least one step before the server in any way you particularity like and be done with it.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, the chump herd is eminently handle-able. the havok they can wreak by employing udp amps, not.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla myeah.
mircea_popescu: except if that trunk serves idiots who need or think might need udp
decimation: but that's not udp's fault
mircea_popescu: in which case you have to pay.
mircea_popescu: yes, IT IS.
jurov: how is banning of udp going to magick dns/ntp away?
decimation: it's the fault of the misconfigured routers and the idiot ntp code
mircea_popescu: let them run on tcp/ip, should be fun to watch.
mircea_popescu: decimation if you shoot my dog by accident ima bury you
mircea_popescu: it can be the fault of the shitty gun you bought. buy better guns or more funerals.
jurov: then you'll just enable the reflection attacks right to your tcp port 80.. indeed fun to watch
asciilifeform: no routing of forged dest ip >>>>> no amplification ddos.
asciilifeform: that simple.
mircea_popescu reserves the sovereign right to blame anyhone on the path to the "accident" he chooses. so no, it's not "the misconfigured routers", i'm not the pitbull you put in the doorway, slam the door and it then "blames the misconfigured door".
decimation: okay, let's imagine a new 'mpdp' that is the same as udp except carries an extra bit to indicate whether the bearer is an idiot
mircea_popescu: atm, im blaming udp. and i would very much like to see it go away, right now.
asciilifeform: enjoy the syn floodz
mircea_popescu: leaving the entire pile of usg services in the lurch.
asciilifeform: so 'easy to filter' because ~no one is doing them~
asciilifeform: because presently no need.
decimation: is this new udp-like protocol acceptable?
mircea_popescu: yes, im sure the idiots "writing software" and "deploying apps" will soon write more crud and deploy more crap
mircea_popescu: at which point we'll re-have this conversation.
mircea_popescu: decimation for as long as no one uses it.
asciilifeform: realize that there can be no useful gossipd except with something like what is described above (i.e. udp but with protocol != 17)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there can trivially be gossipd-over-blockchain.
mircea_popescu: it'd bette rbe transport protocol agnostic.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's on the cable ?
mircea_popescu: dragons.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it's tcp, you are serving jam to folks for showing up
asciilifeform: because connection is stateful
asciilifeform: ergo - lose.
decimation: at any rate, the problem isn't udp or tcp, it's the fact that ip packets route without any signature
asciilifeform: no matter how many kilometres long your cock is, and how many cable spools it takes to hold it
mircea_popescu: decimation except he didn't like the fact yu gotta say where you're sending stuff "because usg snoops it"
mircea_popescu: i never comprehended the "anonimity" securityt posture, but whatever.
asciilifeform: i don't like the fact that i gotta say it in cleartext !
asciilifeform: not 'at all'
mircea_popescu: and how's third party gonna reads your codetext.
asciilifeform: third party gets to cry in the corner
mircea_popescu: so how does router know if to route ?
asciilifeform: router knows that it is routing a packet
asciilifeform: but not that said packet is part of a stream
mircea_popescu: to where ?
asciilifeform: (or what stream)
mircea_popescu: routing it to where!
asciilifeform: to destination.
mircea_popescu: no, because it can't check.
asciilifeform: yes, you need dest ip
decimation: ^ need not be actual dest ip
asciilifeform: the part i'm objecting to is the sequence # thing
decimation: in fact, node could not have an actual ip at all
asciilifeform: and the multi-step connection opening
mircea_popescu: i get it, you want a woman that's transparent and doesn't bleed.
asciilifeform: i ~have one~
mircea_popescu: "onmly way to have gossipd"
asciilifeform: her name is udp with rsa payload.
asciilifeform: with procol # != 17 because mircea_popescu hates 17
mircea_popescu: mkay. i wouldn't be too worried about her fate - it'd cost usg more than it'd cost me to ditch udp.
asciilifeform: (my isp won't like != 17 either. i will have to send these packets to mircea_popescu by camel.)
mircea_popescu: you can send them via dpaste for all the difference it makes.
mircea_popescu wonders if he's the only one that remembers the major spammer-ddos wars of a few years ago.
jurov: were they reolved by banning a protocol?
mircea_popescu: essentially, yes.
mircea_popescu: it's where all this "ban udp" talk actually started.
mircea_popescu: but yes, it was practically shown that a) no actual protection from ddos exists, outside of the ostrich method discussed above and b) udp is the key to this state of affairs.
decimation: umm, 'access-list deny udp any any' on your subnet?
assbot: Massive DDoS attack against anti-spam provider impacts millions of internet users | Naked Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ib3UtB )
mircea_popescu: reference.
mircea_popescu: for they reading the logs not in the cabal.
asciilifeform: i'm still waiting, incidentally, for mircea_popescu to tell me how to set the pogo clock without ntp
asciilifeform: that would be a major scientific advance
mircea_popescu: i don't solve problems. i just throw away other people's solutions.
mircea_popescu: much like i don't make kids, the women make kids. i just kill some of the kids they make.
asciilifeform: i get it, this is most fun sport in the world
asciilifeform: until you drown in unsolved.
asciilifeform: i'd love nothing more than for martians to fly over and shoot with disintegrator beam every single x86 box
asciilifeform: and every single arm cpu
mircea_popescu: let's start with something small.
asciilifeform: this is, if anything, even more batshit than what mircea_popescu asked for
mircea_popescu: like fucking udp.
asciilifeform: after which we get to write gossipd with tcp syn instead of udp
mircea_popescu: or dpaste.
asciilifeform: dpaste over pigeon ?
asciilifeform: srsly the pipe has to go through your wall
asciilifeform: same as mine
mircea_popescu: dpaste over alles!
mircea_popescu: OK, thanks Chester for the clear explanation.
mircea_popescu: Now, how can I verify my Windows 2008 domain server (with Sophos EndPoint Security) is configured correctly?
mircea_popescu: fucking hell.
mircea_popescu: ~WITH SOPHOS END POINT SECURITY~ dontcha know.
mircea_popescu: why are these things on the internet ? i do not wish anything to do with any of them.
mircea_popescu: brandheads.
jurov: they don't want anything to do either.
jurov: they want just buy and click
mircea_popescu: anyway, the only way to solve this problem is of course ppp, ie pay per packet. and the only way to even run an internet at all is as a blockchain, which is to say mempool and all that.
mircea_popescu: but this may take a while.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29050 @ 0.00053864 = 15.6475 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217498 << i'd have no problem deplyoing it were it to actually work.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 03:59:36; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217395 << if i have to ship a bootable linux iso, buildrooted for the purpose of building a) self b) bitcoin - i will. in fact, yes, i have this up my sleeve, BUT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE TO USE IT instead of retarduntu etc
trinque: the rotor problem mod6 and I ran into was simple as can be
trinque: just one of those "right knob" things
mircea_popescu: ^ top thing i hate about linux.
trinque: seems like db's config script had environment data leaking into it from the underlying host
trinque: mircea_popescu: yup
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 04:13:58; mod6: rotolinux sounds awesome btw.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217570 << fun fact : the ennumeration of all people ~alive today~ would far exceed 9gb. degree of magnitude +.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 04:16:03; asciilifeform: there ARE NOT 9 GB of useful src
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, in the entire history of human thought there have not been produced 9, or for that matter 1 gb worth recording.
mircea_popescu: this includes all software.
mircea_popescu: if anyone wishes to compare crap and oranges...
mircea_popescu: there's way too many people for the salt they pay.
phf: using linux kernel as the base allows for rapid repurposing of cheap chinese computers, without having to write drive controllers or general kernel hackery. in case of suckless it was probably more to do with audiocards and inertia. at the time when the suckless project started, it wasn't yet obvious how compromised kernel will eventually become, the reaction was mostly to userspace retardation
mircea_popescu: phf how long have you spent reading the logs ?
phf: mircea_popescu: 2014-03-27
mircea_popescu: dude check it out, the year gets experimental verification.
mircea_popescu: ;;rated phf
gribble: You have not yet rated user phf
mircea_popescu: !rate phf 1 Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/33b3a0ee64f2338d
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phf.1:039ae78c7128555ebad588f79c7dc7edd0087e763c49d7b6a7dd0165e1fbbc08
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for phf from 2 to 1 with note: Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.
phf: moving on... down? :)
kakobrekla: you are mixing the two wots
kakobrekla: <gribble> You have not yet rated user phf < notice gribble
mircea_popescu: i'm so confused
kakobrekla: assbot> Successfully updated the rating for phf from 2 to 1 < assbot
mircea_popescu: fuck. sorry.
mircea_popescu: !rate phf 2 Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8c3c7740eb1f5933
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phf.2:6cea324aa2207bd1d76e587be3036b547021756929f56d01002638c3c027b975
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for phf from 1 to 2 with note: Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 11:39:38; BingoBoingo: AH, I started reading it before scoopy found it
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 12:13:43; jurov: every time i asked how, eventually it boiled down to depend on retroactivity
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217709 << the masses do not know what christianity is
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 12:19:55; shinohai: It's interesting to think about. I just like the summary of Christianity - which, because I live in that "One Nation under GAWD" I get rather sick of hearing the masses go on about.
mod6: ;;later tell hanbot check msg
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00053864 = 6.8407 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !up Michail
assbot: #Eulora log for Sunday, 2015-07-26 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IugffV )
jurov: mp: "kids must be culled properly" me: "i'd be culled easily" mp:"then these thought you were retarded should have been culled"
jurov: how this does not depend on hidsight...
assbot: Is Windows 10 a botnet? Summary of things that spy on you in W10. - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuhbRx )
trinque: if it's free, you're the product!!
trinque: jurov: as for the culling, wouldn't that be up to the parents that clearly decided to let you live? heh
trinque: and if they don't have the luxury of making that decision, *shrug*
trinque: absent a giant safety net, life itself will do the culling
trinque: !up ascii_field
trinque: !up elgrecoFL
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 15:50:59; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217498 << i'd have no problem deplyoing it were it to actually work.
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218311 << on one hand, jurov has it. on other, answer to 'flood of meat' is better selection criteria, rather than 'every sperm is precious' (tm) (r)
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 16:31:35; jurov: how this does not depend on hidsight...
ascii_field: on third hand coming out of alien chest, i readily recognize that i probably ought to have been killed at age 7 or so
jurov: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107152 @ 0.00054404 = 58.295 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19750 @ 0.00053864 = 10.6381 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139700 @ 0.00053019 = 74.0675 BTC [-] {4}
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218023 <-- despite Shannon's complete description of communication in propagation, it seems the details of protocols, sources/sinks of information in various forms, are still totally open
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 14:36:04; asciilifeform: they would much rather that everyone announce, for usg's ease of snoopage, when they are beginning to speak, and to whom, for how long, which order the bytes lay down in.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105250 @ 0.00052081 = 54.8153 BTC [-] {4}
jurov: funkenstein_: shannon would apply if the intertubes were analog
trinque: ascii_field | on third hand coming out of alien chest, i readily recognize that i probably ought to have been killed at age 7 or so << plenty of intelligent people had all kinds of health problems; surely there are reasons other than "fit as a viking" to live
trinque: as for myself, I was more dead than alive when I plopped into this world, so this is all bonus time
funkenstein_: jurov, at some layer, they must be analog right?
jurov: ofc but it's not accessible to you
funkenstein_: i'm about to buy a SDR ham radio kit
funkenstein_: thinking to go with bladeRF
jurov: will it enable yo to make analog channel to arbitrary ip adddress? i'm all ears :D
funkenstein_: we need full stack IP over aether
jurov: you haven't heard? mp will ban it soon
funkenstein_: end to end encrypt by default
funkenstein_: lol
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
funkenstein_: i don't think DDOS is going away
ascii_field: trinque: i wasn't even speaking of health per se
ascii_field: just the fact that it was probably determinable with great certainty at age 7 or so that i wouldn't grow up to be mircea_popescu
ascii_field: funkenstein_ et al: the basic quandry is that communication channels are scarce and very crowded.
kakobrekla: because of the 80 vhs tapes?
funkenstein_: cocktail party
trinque: ascii_field: well shit, how many do?
ascii_field: the only solutions fall into the broad categories of 'moar channel' or 'less meat'
ascii_field: like any other famine.
funkenstein_: specific-to-source orthogonal waveforms
ascii_field: crack a textbook
funkenstein_: well lately it's been going along the lines of you name them and I order them
ascii_field: r. feynman., 'lectures on physics', vol. 1-3.
ascii_field: or if you're a l333337 d00d, landau & lifschitz vol. 1-5
ascii_field: through 8 rather.
funkenstein_: no we're talking, i would say best texts ever
funkenstein_: though I can't claim to have gone through all of them in great detail
funkenstein_: anyway it appears we all share that kind of background
funkenstein_: but I am curious the specifics
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26600 @ 0.0005381 = 14.3135 BTC [+]
funkenstein_: enjoyed recent thread: GSM et al.
funkenstein_: i should probably go read IEEE 802 specs
ascii_field: the subject of why every bag of meat on this sorry rock can't have own radio station, to any useful degree, 'will not fit in the margins of this page' unfortunately.
funkenstein_: plenty of aether to go around, i think we just don't know how to use it yet
funkenstein_: http://www.brainfacts.org/Sensing-Thinking-Behaving/Awareness-and-Attention/Articles/2013/The-Cocktail-Party-Problem
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218302 <<< I'll make an exception in your case danielpbarron, because not once have you told me "shinohai, you gonna FRY!"
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 16:08:35; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217709 << the masses do not know what christianity is
funkenstein_: the masses do not know what mass is
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61300 @ 0.00051262 = 31.4236 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: shinohai: hail satan!
trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzjshF0TFm8 << some music to corrupt your soul
assbot: AT THE GATES - Death And The Labyrinth (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DSXhdx )
kakobrekla: i can hardly understand what the guy is trying to sing to me.
trinque: something something killing people in a labyrinth, evil is basically a weird art project, something something
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60482 @ 0.0005381 = 32.5454 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33050 @ 0.00053849 = 17.7971 BTC [+]
shinohai: trinque: I do regularly mumble prayers in public to Satan, when fundamentalists ruin my meal by trying to pray loudly over their food for 30 minutes.
trinque: shinohai: raised religious?
trinque: I suspect that's why the satan schtick amuses me so
shinohai: Yes, a cult
trinque: that'll do it!
mircea_popescu: jurov just because you posit there's going to be retrospection needed doesn't mean it's either necessarily so or what i said, you know.
trinque: shinohai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w37V5IOfQlI << another good one in that vein
assbot: Mors principium est-bringer of light - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT162q )
shinohai: Considering they believe the world is going to end and there is no need for any sort of secular education, it is a wonder I can read at all.
mircea_popescu: * danielpbarron too << maybe solution then is ask 7 yo kid if they should be killed and do the opposite.
mircea_popescu: what do the fuckwits know.
mircea_popescu: <jurov> you haven't heard? mp will ban it soon << all stacks must wear burka!
shinohai: And I love Mors Principum Est, I'm OG and like Slayer tho
mircea_popescu: ascii_field just the fact that it was probably determinable with great certainty at age 7 or so that i wouldn't grow up to be mircea_popescu << you think anyone actually wants more of me around ?
mircea_popescu: "ajunge un bat la un car de oale."
mircea_popescu: shinohai what's og.
trinque: shinohai: old metal does me just fine too, gotta know the greats
shinohai: Original Gangsta
mircea_popescu: <funkenstein_> though I can't claim to have gone through all of them in great detail << o.O so then what have you done ?
shinohai: But, yeah. I dunno how many copies of Led Zeppelin albums my parents burned when I was a kid.
trinque: shinohai: heh! I got busted for tom petty once, of all things. told my mom "you could stand me up at the gates of hell, but I wont back down"
funkenstein_: mircea_popescu, good question. i spent a lot of time with the fluid mechanics volume back in the day.
mircea_popescu: poor woman.
shinohai: Books too, they had a hard-on for Umberto Eco for some reason, and I could never keep a copy of Foucault's Pendulum
shinohai: or The Name of The Rose
mircea_popescu: poor kid.
shinohai: Tom Petty? Jesus F'in Christ
trinque: hilarity of it is I think the guy's a born again himself
mircea_popescu: so did you give them madonna's "sex" for their 15th aniversary ?
trinque: haha, I don't torture the poor folks anymore, keep my heathen ways to myself
trinque: they at least knew the whole world was filled with shit, just weren't sure what kind
mircea_popescu: this is a point.
shinohai: I moved away and never looked back. Haven't spoken to anyone in my family in almost 20 years.
trinque: I have a great relationship with them; they spend all day trying to not suck, and good for them
trinque: they just missed
mircea_popescu: interesting. i see both angles.
shinohai: I imagine mine are still sitting around waiting for the world to end, and trying to force-feed as much of that nonsense to others as possible.
shinohai: The scan checks out mircea_popescu
shinohai: The barcode above the woman's vag
mircea_popescu: oh. lol.
mircea_popescu: shinohai you gonna FRAY!
shinohai: Just call me crispy then.
mircea_popescu: (btw, the vagina is the internal part. that's a vulva)
shinohai: Well if the vag is internal, and the barcode is on top of that, technically it *is* above.
mircea_popescu: i guess so huh
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
shinohai: 102 F ... damn it's hot. Time to blend up some margaritas or something.
shinohai: May as well drink before Kim eliminates me: http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/30-07-2015/131527-kim-0/
mircea_popescu: Kim said the contest was intended to "bring about a radical turn in the drills to round off preparations for a war full of the will to settle with arms accounts with the U.S. imperialists, the chieftain of aggression, and the South Korean puppet group keen to escalate the confrontation with the fellow countrymen and that of social systems, seized with sycophancy toward the U.S.,"
mircea_popescu: such a bizarre phrase structure they use by now
ascii_field: pravda ought to fire their translator
mircea_popescu: "Gone forever is the era when the United States blackmailed us with nukes; now the United States is no longer a source of threat and fear for us and we are the very source of fear for it."
ascii_field: 'Напомним, Правда. Ру вчера сообщала о выступлении посла Северной Кореи в РФ Ким Хен Чжуна, который заявил, что его страна не намерена следовать примеру Ирана и идти на переговоры с Западом на предмет сокращения своей ядерной програм
ascii_field: мы. Вместо этого, Пхеньян активно готовится к ядерному противостоянию, так как страна подвергается давлению с целью переворота в стране, так как США участили свои учения с вооруженными силами Южной Кореи.'
mircea_popescu: is it a bad thing that i find him more amusing than the run of the mill usg "comedian" ?
mircea_popescu: what's general snipes say
mircea_popescu: (of nato)
shinohai: Between him and the Iranian female ninjas, I am starting to quake in my shoes.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field original reads a lot better.
mircea_popescu: anyway, obviously unlike iran they won't cut a deal.
ascii_field: roughly: 'let us remind, yesterday, pravda.ru yesterday described the speech of the ambassador of north kr, kim hen jeon, who pronounced that his country will not follow the example of iran and go into talks with the west re: nuclear disarmament. instead, pyongyang will actively prepare for a nuclear tension, given the fact that usa is increasing its involvement with training of the south kr army.'
mircea_popescu: unlike iran, nobody is offering them one.
ascii_field: why offer what will not be taken.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field "standoff", neh ?
mircea_popescu: oh, they'd take.
mircea_popescu: offer them what iran got, what cuba got, they'll take it.
ascii_field: anyway this is poppycock, north kr is controlled with rice, not nukes
ascii_field: (from the west)
trinque: strikes me as nothing more than internal politics
trinque: the language is always "prepared" to fight
assbot: Preparing... - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuK2VU )
ascii_field: trinque: virtually everything printed in english re: north kr is a bold-faced lie out of the mouth of south kr
trinque: probably so
trinque: http://thediplomat.com/2015/06/its-official-china-south-korea-sign-free-trade-agreement/ << does not appear that china gives half a shit what nk wants
assbot: It’s Official: China, South Korea Sign Free Trade Agreement | The Diplomat ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuKjYM )
trinque: and that's probably the opinion that matters most
ascii_field: how many people know, for instance, that south started the kr war ?
mircea_popescu: erryone ?
assbot: Italo Calvino on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT6uCz )
ascii_field: or that north was an industrial giant, heavy on the machinery market, until blockaded by usa and its muppets ?
ascii_field: but yes, they are in 'hitler's bunker' mode
ascii_field: hence the stories being ~believable~
mircea_popescu: ascii_field and italy was an empire and spain was an empire and what else.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: except that italy and spain did not get history-edited
ascii_field: aha, even f-students know that they were once empires.
mircea_popescu: ask any muppet today, he thinks europe is christian and christian values fundamentally european.
mircea_popescu: hollow word.
mircea_popescu: they do not know what that meant.
mircea_popescu: might as well say "any kid today knows nkr is <<a country>>".
mircea_popescu: big whop
ascii_field: mircea_popescu ought to contact his supplier and have a stern talk re: getting a higher grade of muppet shipped in
mircea_popescu: wouldn't that be a shittier muppet ?
ascii_field: not necessarily
shinohai: Same in America, blabbering about how this nation was specifically founded on Christian principles, without ever bothering to read the treaty of Tripoli.
mircea_popescu: shinohai ironically, the us was founded on sectarian neoprotestantism alright.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, so was england, at about the same time. diff flavour.
shinohai: I honestly have no issues with those that do choose to practice religion, just respect the fact that some don't.
trinque: I prefer most do have some form of mind control installed.
trinque: look what happens otherwise?
mircea_popescu: well... honestly, if one takes the stand that mcd is not really food, that same one'd be hard pressed to count neoprotestant lols as religion.
trinque: ;;later tell pete_dushenski let me go ahead and eat my words re: desert gods now
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: 'i prefer that the planet exert a gravitational pull. look what happens otherwise'
ascii_field: look where ?
shinohai gift wraps a copy of LeVay's Satanic Bible, sends it to trinque
trinque: heh I've read some of that stuff
trinque: it's like Ayn Rand with candles
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: http://wiki.minix3.org/doku.php?id=www:download:start << 300 M !!! i withdraw my recommendation of 'minix'
assbot: www:download:start [Wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT9EpT )
ascii_field: it was coopted.
ascii_field: and authors find it necessary to lie, e.g.,
ascii_field: 'In monolithic operating systems, a driver can write to any word of memory and thus accidentally trash user programs. In MINIX 3, when a user expects data from, for example, the file system, it builds a descriptor telling who has access and at what addresses. It then passes an index to this descriptor to the file system, which may pass it to a driver. The file system or driver then asks the kernel to write via the
ascii_field: descriptor, making it impossible for them to write to addresses outside the buffer.'
ascii_field: ^ trivially disproved
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00054279 = 18.0749 BTC [+]
ascii_field: i can ask, e.g., a nic, to read or write arbitrary word in ram
ascii_field: (if i can access the nic at all from the machine end)
shinohai: "We just launched and are all excited, but one caveat. Transactions don't work."
assbot: REMINDER: the block gas limit is currently 5000, so it is not possible to send transactions. We will release an update in a couple days to cause miners to "vote" the gas limit upwards at which point the full blockchain functionality will be de-facto enabled. : ethereum ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT9ZJ5 )
shinohai: Gas limit indeed. Whole project is hot gas.
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, nobody yet bought the shorts
mircea_popescu: what was it, a year ? 16 months ?
ascii_field: nobody needed to
mircea_popescu: !s from:mircea_popescu ethereum bitcoin
assbot: 5 results for 'from:mircea_popescu ethereum bitcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+ethereum+bitcoin
ascii_field: buterin & co just got $2M from usg.
assbot: Logged on 22-07-2014 22:53:40; mircea_popescu: ;;sell 5000 "ethereum coins deliverable March 15th, 2014" for 1 BTC.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70769 @ 0.00053752 = 38.0398 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: How did they manage to get $2 mil in funding ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56550 @ 0.00053753 = 30.3973 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 27-07-2015 23:27:09; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu ^ https://archive.is/2ZiCQ
kakobrekla: katz did it too.
kakobrekla: oh this is about the same thing.
kakobrekla: it doesnt mention butterin
hanbot: re that hearn-gmaxwell reddit slapfight, "Not many quit their jobs and created companies to build products only for today's tiny user base." is the best part. sv somehow hoping http://trilema.com/2013/the-future-of-bitcoin-regulation/#selection-61.0-61.210 never happened.
assbot: The future of Bitcoin regulation on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuOLXs )
ascii_field: kakobrekla: see mircea_popescu's post re: elaine shi & co.
kakobrekla: yeah i better shutup as im always behind.
shinohai: I think I'll sign up for that. My innovative new currency is "mined" by wiping 1 square of tissue across my ballsack for 30 seconds.
ascii_field: kakobrekla: she and her fuckbuddy oversee a university lab where slave labour (grad students) work (or pretend to) on 'ethereum'
mircea_popescu: lawl. actually hanbot & shinohai the stuff's quite well related. sv knows how to do one thing, the whole "make a market out of a trillion shitheads and sell them sheep olives for quarter pennies". and usg lives in this delusional alt-reality where it is enough for it to say, and things happen.
mircea_popescu: both these got a little crashed, and yes i'm going to bleed the living life out of the entire set of derp shartups, and yes it can say until it falls over.
mircea_popescu: but hey. until that day, every wooden cutout's a soldier.
assbot: Terracotta Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1DTbWoT )
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you will notice, if inclined to notice, the distress manifest in the reduction of funding.
ascii_field: reduction ?!
mircea_popescu: coinbase can live on no 2 million.
mircea_popescu: last year it was, "tens of millions". merely not jumping to hundred this year = fail
ascii_field: coinbase no, 2 uni profs - sure
mircea_popescu: but in fact it withered to a coupla, and doled out through the university program.
ascii_field: that 2m is ~just~ for that particular sc4ml4b
mircea_popescu: 2 uni profs aren't a threat to the fucking mice in their own lab.
mircea_popescu: it's scaling down, and painfully so.
mircea_popescu: the 2016 usg line re bitcoin will be that "never happened, not important, uninteresting"
ascii_field: wake me up when they can't afford to mine spamblox any moar.
mircea_popescu: much like the olympics they can't aford.
mircea_popescu: "it has problems, can't deliver on customer expectations, etc". you see the seeds in the amazon recent lol/
mircea_popescu: "bitcoin has problems that our system sucks"
ascii_field: yes, there is a ministry of usg that occupies itself with finding nails for the microscope to pound in, badly
ascii_field: but it is not the only ministry
mircea_popescu: the sv ministry got raped a little.
mircea_popescu: the agitprop ministry got raped a little.
mircea_popescu: there's really not that many.
mircea_popescu: anyway, be that as it may, i
mircea_popescu: 've never had this much fun in my life!
ascii_field: on a not entirely unrelated note, incitatus has been steadily ~100 blocks behind
ascii_field: for the last week or so, after (briefly) fully synced
ascii_field: the ministry of dropped packets is doing well.
trinque: which reminds me, my rotor instance chewed up its db when a drive's usb cable disconnected
trinque: and berkdb claims its a db?
ascii_field: trinque: this is not specific to rotor !!
trinque: course not
trinque: I know that
trinque: I'm going to restart it from the beginning
ascii_field: trinque: and go, unplug the disk of, e.g., a postgres
trinque: but it's a place for obvious improvement
ascii_field: you'll be surprised.
trinque: ascii_field: would not do this
trinque: write ahead log is for that
ascii_field: again, you'll be surprised.
trinque: as always, it depends
trinque: but I bet postgresql would win on balance
trinque: it's not an unsolvable problem to just hack off the frayed bit and begin again from there
ascii_field: trinque: you speak as if this thing didn't eat enough ram and weren't slow enough
ascii_field: now we also need a tcp crud pipe for every access to the blockchain ????!!
trinque: atomicity of writes would be nice.
trinque: how, a fine thing to think about
ascii_field: keep all blocks in antifuse rom
ascii_field: n+1 bits per block, with the last one signifying 'finalized'
ascii_field: blow the last bit when 0...n represent valid block.
trinque: there, that's an awesome idea.
ascii_field: now go buy a silicon fab so that antifuse rom gets produced again.
ascii_field: it is - afaik - EXTINCT today
trinque turns the death metal on again, fitting as it is
ascii_field: the 'otp' chips sold currently are a FRAUD - eeproms with black epoxy instead of window !!
ascii_field: *eproms
phf: well block*.dat are essentially append only, the idea can be emulated by having transaction bits. you write a t bit, you write rest of block, when done flip t bit. on restart you walk backwards until the first flipped bit and you file truncate anything from that point on
ascii_field: nothing on a pc is 'append only' !
ascii_field: with possible exception of 'cd-r'
trinque: what he describes is effectively a wal log, what's wrong with it?
trinque: bleh, *wal, I mean
trinque: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: !s protocol vs promise
assbot: 2 results for 'protocol vs promise' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=protocol+vs+promise
ascii_field: there is an important difference between 'x will not happen because i promise not to stick it in that hole, really' and 'x cannot happen because physics'
ascii_field: and yes, people have occasionally been mistaken about physics
trinque: fair point, yet that means no atomicity til bitcoin has its very own hardware arch
trinque: maybe that's called for here
ascii_field: but in virtually every case known, it was really a case of 'i won't go in that hole, promise'
ascii_field: trinque: i was pointing out that you need a relatively minor (from r&d standpoint) device, that was ~once available~ and isn't today.
ascii_field: pertinent story:
ascii_field: i was once a sysadmin, for a spell
ascii_field: and we have a then-popular tape robot
ascii_field: the docs mentioned that one could buy 'write-once tapes', for usg regulatory compliance
ascii_field: this piqued my curiosity and i inquired to the vendor, how, precisely, does one make a write-once magnetic tape ?!!
ascii_field: was told that it is ordinary tape. but with a magic hole in the cartridge - like old floppy disk
ascii_field: that the drive would obey.
ascii_field: nearly fell down laughing
ascii_field: a fifty-cent magnet will 'rewrite' happily, these magical 'write once' tapes.
shinohai: "magic hole"?!
ascii_field: as will the tape deck and a piece of 'scotch'
ascii_field: shinohai: yes, like 3 inch 'floppy'
ascii_field: anyway, this is 'promise'
ascii_field: 'protocol' is when you can't rewrite because you can't unburn a hole.
ascii_field: (though still have to be careful because enemy can make holes in any place where you had not)
trinque: amazing how bitcoin drastically increases the requirements on rigor and correctness
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
trinque: ty assbot
ascii_field: trinque: in precisely the same way that abdominal surgery increases required standard of hygiene
phf: pray mr babbage
kakobrekla: <trinque> maybe that's called for here < actually its called for in many other places, you still dont get it.
trinque: I get it just fine.
kakobrekla: where?
kakobrekla: get the hardware i meant.
trinque: chewing up a database on disk is a fine way to run afoul of the "I do not have the correct blockchain problem" the whole piece of software by its very purpose tries to avoid.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52750 @ 0.00054108 = 28.542 BTC [+]
trinque: and while you're fabbing hardware, might want to keep the integrity of the thing in the meantime
trinque: kakobrekla: ah I got ya
trinque: but then to continue in that vein, I do see how trying endless mitigations is a death by a thousand cuts.
ascii_field: none of this is hard to make.
ascii_field: in the sense that 'cold fusion' or elixir of immortality is
trinque: sure, just needs a business case that works like anything
ascii_field: we know how. but market does not want penicillin. it wants the normal cocktail of horseshit and opium
trinque: ascii_field: tactically speaking, supposing there just isn't time for antifuse rom?
trinque: or <insert real solution here>
ascii_field: what means, 'isn't time'
trinque: or are we already in a position where things like the blocksize limit debate are moot
trinque: I took that to be one of the reasons to take over development of bitcoind
ascii_field: the reason to remove machine gun from the hands of a demented anal child is not necessarily that you need the thing for anything.
ascii_field: trinque: i'll repeat the question - what is the meaning of 'isn't time' here ?
trinque: #up peterl
trinque: !up peterl
peterl: thanks, trinque
peterl: btw, I alrways read your name like it rhymes with drink, is this right?
trinque: that's how I say it, yep
trinque: ascii_field: supposing the network goes the way of the gavins
trinque: but in that case I suppose "let em fork" ?
ascii_field: there is no 'the network'
trinque: better to get bitcoind right?
ascii_field: there is the gavins, and there is the actual people.
ascii_field: it's that simple.
shinohai is glas he discovered therealbitcoin
shinohai: *glad
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47586 @ 0.00054108 = 25.7478 BTC [+]
trinque: I've taken the size of the network as one of the things ensuring its continued existence.
ascii_field: trinque: how ?
peterl: so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is *still signed in*.
trinque: ascii_field: the hashing power monopoly scenario; say it forks and there's nearly no hashing power on the side of therealbitcoind
ascii_field: trinque: then we switch workfunctions
ascii_field: trinque: say, the cellular automata apparatus i described last year
trinque goes to find the thread
ascii_field: understand, the thing can work while being used only by mircea_popescu and five other similar fellas to 'hawala' at each other.
pete_dushenski: ;;seen BingoBoingo
gribble: BingoBoingo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 hours, 14 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <BingoBoingo> AH, I started reading it before scoopy found it
peterl: does it matter how much hashing pwer they have if it is pointed at the other side of a fork?
pete_dushenski: wtf qntra. stop snarfing my shit. why you no like my cecil comment ?
peterl: hmm, yeah, I havn't had time to keep up with that, did you use it? I suppose I could resurect it?
pete_dushenski: i used it now and again
assbot: Bittrex.com - ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPBx95 )
shinohai: heh buttrex
pete_dushenski: eth up a solid 20x over ipo price for those (like saifedean) who threw a couple bucks at it and are ready to cash the fuck out.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 20:52:13; peterl: so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is *still signed in*.
peterl: no, just some derpy schmoe. I thought about sending funny emails to all his friends, but didn't.
pete_dushenski: !s desert god
assbot: 1 results for 'desert god' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=desert+god
pete_dushenski: trinque refresh my memory perhaps ?
shinohai: !up ascii_field
trinque: pete_dushenski: it was in reference to the ISIS convo
shinohai: Be evil peterl and send emails to ISIS recruiters.
kakobrekla: a whole 8 buttcoin volume on that thin, is that all they got?
pete_dushenski: trinque silly me. of course.
trinque: above I spoke about being fond of my folks having the drive to "not suck"
peterl: I should have emailed the ISIS and cc'ed NSA?
trinque: regardless of it being derived from said desert god
trinque nearly drops his laptop...
pete_dushenski: kakobrekla that's buttrex trading engine at 9,000 rpm for ya.
pete_dushenski: makes bitstamp look like the chinese olympic games
trinque: until later gents
pete_dushenski: trinque they do seem to have their place and their purpose.
pete_dushenski: peterl shoulda logged into your sr account
peterl: first I would have to make one
phf: ascii_field: is your argument then, on a higher level, if abstraction leaks it should not be introduced?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: phf: no. if it leaks, should find the author and boil him in oil.
ascii_field: it is very helpful, and should be introduced, so that we know whom to boil in oil.
ascii_field: it is entirely possible to make abstractions which do not, in any meaningful sense, leak.
ascii_field: e.g., hardly anyone knows - or needs to know - what chemical process precisely it was that produced his cpu.
assbot: Loper OS » You have made your bedrock, now lie in it. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPCY7G )
shinohai: Heh i need to find those dumb dogecoins i have somewhere and cash 'em out for btc, i could use it.
phf: ascii_field: oh i wan't talking in the abstract, i was thinking in terms of prescriptive specifically when it comes to working on bitcoind
ascii_field: phf: for so long as it runs on a consumer pc, it will exhibit the braindamage characteristic to the pc.
peterl: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217674 << why does everybody mention it was a dentist that killed the lion? Did a tooth extraction go horribly wrong?
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 10:25:45; scoopbot_revived: Cecil the Lion is a Pretext for Expanding Extraterritoriality of US Law http://qntra.net/2015/07/cecil-the-lion-is-a-pretext-for-expanding-extraterritoriality-of-us-law/
ascii_field: such as losing bits when the mains current flickers
ascii_field: peterl: it is hidden 'class' outrage
ascii_field: 'why is a dentist wealthy enough to go on safari ?!'
ascii_field: phinancier - a-ok
ascii_field: politico - a-ok
ascii_field: kill, eat the last panda, why not.
ascii_field: dentist?! atrocity.
shinohai: We should help preserve as many lions as possible, IMO. What else are we gonna feed all the Xstians to?
ascii_field: ocelots.
peterl: reminds me of http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1430626/ where the antagonists are a bunch of rich snobs who strive to eat the most rare species
assbot: Les Pirates! Bons à rien, mauvais en tout (2012) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPDhPG )
peterl: why did assbot get the title in french?
pete_dushenski: because kako's a socialist
phf: ascii_field: there's a lot of leaky abstractions in the current codebase, starting with "string" and "bignum". presumably the solution for those will be to port bitcoind to an architecture with tagged memory?
ascii_field: phf: aha.
ascii_field: phf: and if you know of these leaking in some meaningful sense, please say.
phf: ascii_field: so what's the difference between existing leaky abstractions that don't leak in some meaningful sense and the ones that we decide to introduce?
ascii_field: phf: please give more specific example ?
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Comment rescued
phf: ascii_field: oh i'm still on the subject of wal logs
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo cheers mate. i guess i'm in the spammer books or something
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: You most likely used a spammy word combo. Or you lost your automatic approval browser cookie since your last comment.
ascii_field: phf: when you lose your keys, you may not know exactly where they are, but you can be very certain that they are not on the moon.
ascii_field: this is what it means for an abstraction not to leak.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo myeah. ah well. all better nao !
ben_vulpes is looking forward to digesting three days of megalog
ben_vulpes: !up SuchWow
ben_vulpes: how's the dogecoin?
SuchWow: lol
SuchWow: as always :)
SuchWow: kinda surprising how stable it's been
SuchWow: how's the bitcoin?
ben_vulpes: scam, as always
Adlai: kinda surprising how unstable it's been
SuchWow: any hot new bitcoin assets?
SuchWow: are there IPOs with bitcoin based stocks at all
Adlai: ;;ident suchwow
gribble: Nick 'suchwow', with hostmask 'SuchWow!~SuchWow@unaffiliated/suchwow', is not identified.
SuchWow: I am just SuchWow, never cared for identing with anything other than nickserv
SuchWow: they do know me in #dogecoin tho, it's true. ;)
shinohai: If you aren't in WoT, you don't exist.
SuchWow: i like being invisible
asciilifeform: !down SuchWow
ascii_field: very invisible.
ascii_field: you're welcome, SuchWow
shinohai: ty ascii_field
phf: ascii_field: i'm having hard time understanding your point then. c++ on a von neumann machine leaks by protocol, so we either write against the guarantees of the underlying machine or not at all?
ascii_field: phf: c++ on x86 will be a turd, yes
ascii_field: and if phf read the logz, he knows that i am an opponent of maintaining the 0.5.3 thing into eternity.
phf: !up ascii_field
phf: huh, i actually forgot that. it was somewhere in the discussion about conformal implementation, "not written in wot"
ascii_field: phf: more of a 'written in proprietary turdlang'
ascii_field: but also, yes, non-wot
mircea_popescu: ascii_field: we know how. but market does not want penicillin. it wants the normal cocktail of horseshit and opium << this sounds like it';d sell
ascii_field: sold great in usa!
ascii_field: 1800-1920 roughly
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 20:52:13; peterl: so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is *still signed in*.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218686 << obvious;ly thewir derpy web2.0 site doesn't load here. how much actual BTC could i get by shorting a billion eth atm, provided of course there were an actual market for the thing which behaved like a market and so i could do this ?
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 20:57:05; pete_dushenski: https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ETC << big money movin' over in 2.0land
ascii_field: let's together visit the planet with the market-that-behaves-like-market
pete_dushenski: let's see, at 8 btc a day...
ascii_field: mircea_popescu can short eth there
ascii_field: and i will sell real cpu.
mircea_popescu: go there, come back with functioning hardware ?
kakobrekla: peterl because the end point of assbot url parser is in france. assbot is on another server, for obvious reasons.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu you'd be an even older old man by the time you went through a billion eth
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91040 @ 0.00054297 = 49.432 BTC [+] {3}
kakobrekla: peterl and imdb wants to be 'smart'.
mircea_popescu: no, seriously, what's the thing quoted at ?
pete_dushenski: 0.01 btc/eth
mircea_popescu: ahahaah what!
pete_dushenski: pre-sale was 0.0005
mircea_popescu: anyone wanna buy some eth from me ?
ascii_field: http://www.dbit.com/index.html << in other nyooz, this exists.
assbot: D Bit Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator ... ( http://bit.ly/1LTGFsF )
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski lol ? they claimed iirc something more like 0.001 which is whyt i was offering 5k for 1btc last year
mircea_popescu: meanwhile they sold for 1/4 what i was offering ? "presale" , what's that, the web2.0 word for "fraud" ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu pre-sale was 1337 - 2000 eth/btc, depending on timing
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 1/0.0005
gribble: 2000
mircea_popescu: it's starting to come back to me.
mircea_popescu: so anyone wanna pay me 100 btc for 10k etc ?
assbot: A Guide To Buying 5000 Ether/Bitcoin, 2.5x More Than Ethereum’s Genesis Sale Offers | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1LTGPjz )
mircea_popescu: yeah. lulz of all time.
ascii_field: and that iso boots!
ascii_field: in 250 milliseconds (emulator), no less
mircea_popescu: which ios this ?
shinohai: great article pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: thanks man
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34709 @ 0.00053363 = 18.5218 BTC [-] {3}
shinohai: I think I read somewhere that failed "social currency" reddcoin 's lead developer quit, after squandering all their IPCO funds, and now they are going to attempt round two.
assbot: Ersatz-11 Demo version ... ( http://bit.ly/1KDwdE2 )
ascii_field: i bet that fella sleeps ad libitum
ascii_field: and has a spiffy long grey beard.
ascii_field: no 'css' on that www !
ascii_field: that thing talks to modern nics, etc.
ascii_field: (from emulated pdp11)
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
assbot: Database Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVdip )
assbot: Report: Police Seeking Criminal Charges Against Mt Gox CEO ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVdiz )
assbot: Mark Karpeles: US Agents Might Be Responsible for Mt. Gox Hack | Money & Tech ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVhPb )
trinque: has king karp skipped tokyo yet?
trinque: holy shit, at least he said it aloud
decimation: <+jurov> funkenstein_: shannon would apply if the intertubes were analog < shannon applies to intertubes, as his theory applies to all tranmission of information - you must expend energy to communicate and there is no infinitely reliable channel
ascii_field: trinque: disappointing further down, where he accuses the sr investigator derps
ascii_field: rather than his actual handlers
ascii_field: (karpeles doesn't want to eat the nailgun yet, apparently)
trinque: too bad; he almost did something half-honorable
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2014 22:27:18; asciilifeform: the 'a) wanna buy strela? b) fuck off c) really, dontcha? b) ok sure c) off to jail' thing has been going so long that it doesn't even make national news every time now.
trinque: do they do anything else anymore, other than govt theater
trinque: this of course doesn't absolve gox of being grossly incompetent
trinque: but fascinating.
jurov: decimation: since you like to split hairs, does, say, does the noise distribution in your internet connection have a value you can use in shannon's theorem?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78156 @ 0.00052515 = 41.0436 BTC [-]
jurov: i'd say it does not, it's either almost noiseless or there's no connection at all
jurov: like arguing about newtonian physics in videogame
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58122 @ 0.00053686 = 31.2034 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: Karpeles Facing Charges in Japan? | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbH0lG )
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell williamdunne bring back scoops !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: jurov: not so. plenty of packets would be lost if you attempted to spam me with udp, for instance
decimation: but at any rate, you can experiment yourself, dump large quantities of data from one machine to another. you will find a non-zero error rate eventually
decimation: it's quite low, but not infinitely so
decimation: I suppose I don't see a difference between analog and digital communication, even in principle
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:58:03; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217301 << the legal precedent is that if you're thye sort of guy that solves his own poroblems rather than seek the help of the state, you're a self-radicalizing terrorists and general wesley snipes of nato wants you in treblinka
assbot: Block size according to technological growth. · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbIM6k )
ag3nt_zer0: trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217349 << total agreement. that book I linked you to put it this way "If an idea is true, it belongs equally to all who are capable of understanding it." p.56 - did you ever get to that btw?
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 02:15:56; trinque: I reject entirely the notion that concepts can be owned.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 128000 @ 0.00052398 = 67.0694 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: So, killing ophanage helps to seriously cut bitcoin memory usage on 0.7.3 much as it does on 0.5.3... Also CPU usage much flatter when keeping up aside from new block CPU storm
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> y'know, like everybody in, e.g., buenos aires, can << this is wild and unsubstantiated FUD. bad coffee is everywhere in ba, the argentines can't grow their own, and their braindead government won't let them import green beans in enough of a timely fashion to keep them from going stale or molding. i have *had* good cups of coffee there, but even in the nice places the espresso is only casi casi.
BingoBoingo: Not sources provided at http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/bitcoin-0.7.2/ are now out of sync with what I am actually running
assbot: Index of /bitcoin-0.7.2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQ4wEJ )
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 23:45:27; BingoBoingo: So, killing ophanage helps to seriously cut bitcoin memory usage on 0.7.3 much as it does on 0.5.3... Also CPU usage much flatter when keeping up aside from new block CPU storm
asciilifeform: why not backport whatever it was you liked so much in 0.7 ??
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So I can learn and derp on systems other people aren't counting on
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nobody's counting on 0.5.3 last i knew...
asciilifeform: (except possibly for me, i moved my personal flagship to my bleeding tree; but i'm not a serious user of bitcoin)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218871 << none of the cups i had there tasted of burned diesel the way 'starbucks' mandatorily does.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 23:49:03; ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> y'know, like everybody in, e.g., buenos aires, can << this is wild and unsubstantiated FUD. bad coffee is everywhere in ba, the argentines can't grow their own, and their braindead government won't let them import green beans in enough of a timely fashion to keep them from going stale or molding. i have *had* good cups of coffee there, but even in the nice places the espresso is only casi
asciilifeform: this alone is enough for me.
BingoBoingo: It is hard to say what anyone counts on. It is also hard to say how well I actually understand the cpp I attempt a performance of reading. And so Imma keep chopping at this for a while to get more familiar with the code. main.cpp is already ~1000 loc shorter than 0.7.2 release, perhaps more. I figure Derp on 0.7, read 0.5.x and patches and maybe at some point I will understand
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: imho, the problem is that the item you are becoming familiar with, has no future.
asciilifeform: it is taking up space in your head where you could, potentially, put something valuable.
BingoBoingo: Head has plenty of space. I drink to clear up plenty of useful space in head. Anyways chopping away on system I choose to depend on that no one else uses provides a serious incentive to not fuck up.
BingoBoingo: 0.5.3 isn't much different from 0.7.2 really a lot of overlap. Mostly just more loc, but not too many differences yet in the ones they share. Most of the wild differences and cpp-isms enter in 0.8 and 0.9 and beyond
trinque: ag3nt_zer0: began, then workload ate my free time for a bit, but it's still in my stack
assbot: Man Sues Airline — Says Fat Seatmate Caused Back Injury ... ( http://bit.ly/1KCB8I0 )
asciilifeform: ;;later tell jurov would you please consider getting rid of the PILE OF SHIT appended to the filenames ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: i believe that i am not alone in ragingly hating its fucking guts
assbot: Oracle preps 'Sonoma' chip for low-priced Sparc servers | ITworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1KDPTre )
asciilifeform: i don't see why i should EVER have to mv bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST1_8a8d52a747f0b0bd5d7a2cce9d0938f1dd6e1239.tar.gz.sig bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST1.tar.gz.sig
trinque: mmyeah that's pretty annoying
shinohai: I wondered about that myself, but just meh'd it off an mv
asciilifeform: i'm done 'mehing things off'
asciilifeform: this is how we end up buried in cement truck full of shit
asciilifeform: zero tolerance.
assbot: [Mailman-Users] Disable attachment scrubbing? ... ( http://bit.ly/1KCCwKF )
trinque: might be the thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36956 @ 0.00053665 = 19.8324 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: True dat, asciilifeform ... mod6 told me the same :/
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i will point out that i have not been able to locate an elbrus, nor has, last i asked, mircea_popescu, nor anyone else i know
asciilifeform: if any were produced at all, they are being used in-house.
asciilifeform: like the last... 4 of'em
asciilifeform: not even golden, but monocrystalline diamond toilet.
BingoBoingo: That is likely. If any escape it may be that oracle wishes to kill the market for them.
BingoBoingo: With cheap USG sparc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: this is the one thing guaranteed not to happen
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: given as the whole purpose of elbrus, to the extent it had one, is to be a non-nato computer
asciilifeform: suitable for use in, e.g., ru nukes
asciilifeform: thus it does not compete in any market where american product is present
BingoBoingo: Of course, but USG is rarely rational anymore.
asciilifeform: the hilarious part re: elbrus - given ~only~ the published material - is that it has standard chinese peripherals, on memory-mapped i/o...
asciilifeform: it's almost like no one is even ~trying~.
assbot: WikiLeaks Stratfor Emails Contain Malware
shinohai: I dunno why I feel such distaste fr Julian Assange, I have never been able to put a finger on it.
asciilifeform: because he's a usg tool ?
trinque: he certainly stinks of one.
asciilifeform: (to a first approximation, 'famous in usg media' ======= usg tool)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79354 @ 0.00052244 = 41.4577 BTC [-] {4}
shinohai: I jokingly said that perhaps he and Edward Snowden were gay lovers on reddit once, and almost got tarred and feathered.
asciilifeform: mod6, ben_vulpes, trinque, et al: if any of you had problems with 'rotor,' be aware that the toolchain dir and its contents CANNOT BE MOVED OR RENAMED
asciilifeform: they contain configs with absolute paths !
asciilifeform: this idiocy is not my doing, it is gcc/binutils.
trinque: I can use it just fine now
asciilifeform: i.e. if you built it and it ended up sitting down in /home/luser/a/b/d/e/f/g/p/q/r/s, it will stay there. or rebuild WHOLE THING again.
trinque: just seems like db's configure script has some problem, and grabbed some data from my env
asciilifeform: trinque: post patch plz
asciilifeform: for the others.
trinque: will do
trinque: otherwise pretty impressive that the diff between the two binaries was so small
asciilifeform: try 'vbindiff' and explore it.
asciilifeform: i'd like to get it to be null.
asciilifeform: so we can start talking about bytes in the bin!
asciilifeform: with absolute locations.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18350 @ 0.00052872 = 9.702 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77002 @ 0.00053801 = 41.4278 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Why no robots at Starbucks? ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5Zhmv )
decimation: asciilifeform: I don't know if you have been to a starbucks recently, but they converted over to 'fully automatic' espresso machines - with milk dispenser!
decimation: all the 'barista' does is hit the button
decimation: greenspun thinks that if starbucks went 'full coke machine' and got rid of the employees, they wouldn't be able to charge the rates they do, because 'not hand crafted'
decimation: so they are stuck with humans who pretend to know how to make coffee
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-12-2014#954154 < asciilifeform I think you meant 'encrypted with emphemeral key'?
assbot: Logged on 16-12-2014 01:40:04; asciilifeform: what follows is the payload, divided into K gibblets, each below udp mtu in size, each signed with ephemeral key. the gibblets are coded using fountain code (e.g. 'raptor') and you need N of K - in any order - to reassemble.
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:45:47; asciilifeform: payload (incl. the signature) is in the crypted blob
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2015 19:46:08; asciilifeform: ~i~ mentioned it
BingoBoingo: <decimation> so they are stuck with humans who pretend to know how to make coffee << Just like McDonalds where every aspect of food preparation is automated except for parts where the necessary machines don't yet exist.
decimation: BingoBoingo: and those machines don't exist because mcdonald's would face a shitstorm if it went 'full coke machine'
BingoBoingo: decimation: I doubt it. The steps where humans are involved are the ones where X has to be moved to Y. Ones where the chromosonally retarded can perform adequate error checking. Perhaps the right machines exist in some bunker, or it isn't economical to produce them though they have been developed.
decimation: mcdonalds 'provides good jobs'
decimation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/07/30/yes-my-teenage-son-is-transgender-no-you-may-not-ask-about-his-genitals/?hpid=z9 < lol new low for wapo "When others ask me whether or not my son has a vagina, and they actually do ask, I feel violated and disrespected. Transgender people are human. "
assbot: Yes, my teenage son is transgender. No, you may not ask about his genitals. - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1I60ACb )
decimation: where do they dig this shit up? meanwhile actual shit happens in usg all around washington - not important?
BingoBoingo: <decimation> mcdonalds 'provides good jobs' << Nah jobs are the franchinsee's problem
decimation: sure, but franchisee doesn't make R&D decisions
BingoBoingo: So long as McDonalds has few corporate stores they have to staff and having staff at all is largely a franchisee problem McDonalds will automate for consistency (i.e. robogrill) instead of doing so to purely reduce labor.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46337 @ 0.00053801 = 24.9298 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: At the point where USG decides franchisee employees are actually McDonalds employees... coke machine
BingoBoingo: Well, they will probably keep humans at the cash register to provide a surface for customers to direct anger at.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 1500 @ 0.00111 = 1.665 BTC
decimation: lol https://twitter.com/USFWS/status/626788237399339008 < apparently twitter is how usg tries to get in touch with people now?
coderwill: It will be interesting to see if food shortages are bearish for McDonald's in the long run. OTOH, I wonder how much of the menu is actually subject to food shortages.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00053802 = 2.1252 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: coderwill: Probably the same way they always have, menu adjustments.
assbot: WikiLeaks Stratfor Dump Contains Malware | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1MxsMkt )
coderwill: BingoBoingo: Not to change the topic, but have been wondering something, if you don't mind me asking - do you write under your alias as opposed to a real name for any particular reason?
BingoBoingo: coderwill: I came this channel all cautious like because I was afraid of making a fool out of myself. Eventually I had used this nick long enough I identify as this more than I do as my USG imposed slave name.
BingoBoingo: But my slave name is on the Qntra MPEx contract for the curious.
coderwill: Ah, thanks for the background - that's really interesting. I myself am thinking about a new project, and was wondering if in this day and age it is a disadvantage to attach a real-life identify to the Internet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34021 @ 0.00053802 = 18.304 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: I mean the connection mean I've basically self doxxed, but my slave name may actually be a less common string than the IRC nick.
mats: such drama
mats: 'slave name'
BingoBoingo: mats: I'm still out on bond... as I have been since May 2013
decimation: mats: I think you are right about snowden by the way
mats: it is suspicious that he shills projects like tails also
mats: next thing ya know he's gonna be telling folks to use 'TextSecure' and 'RedPhone'
decimation: I don't buy into this conspiracy theory stuff. a much more consistant theory is that he didn't know wtf he was talking about
mats: I have no dramatic theories as to wut is going on (like alf) but I do not care at all about what he has to say
decimation: either he was a brilliant ru spy, or he was a self-appointed reddit internet policeman
trinque: he can be oblivious and serve the same purpose.
mats: I agree its most likely he's just a dumbass
decimation: he might have had a pretty good case (that he was a whistleblower) if all he released was the verizon court order for all the metadata
BingoBoingo: decimation: I lean towards Snowden being a derpy redditor with an opportunity who happened to steal the powerpoints because... reddit
decimation: yeah that's a pretty likely theory
decimation: aside from the metadata stuff, the evidence that there's domestic spying going on seems pretty thin
BingoBoingo: Of course ascii could be right and derpy reddit Snowden could be a stage actor
decimation: maybe, but I don't understand how it benefits usg
decimation: I do see how all the noise and confusion benefits usg's enemies
BingoBoingo: Well, if stuff was already leaking, replace actual leaker with Reddit derp stage actor.
BingoBoingo: But that's asciilifeform's theory
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75000 @ 0.00052542 = 39.4065 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: Edward Snowden in CitizenFour seemed legit though... derpy
decimation: which seems to be based on "he only released some tech stuff"
decimation: he's either a very good actor or he was earnest
decimation: but he's not being entirely forthcoming
BingoBoingo: I dunno how anyone could trust Greenwald after Citizenfour unless they have some liberal switch in their head which gets tripped when they see his Brazilian boyfriend
decimation: is real position seems to be that usg shouldn't spy on anyone, even foriegners
mats: what a shit sysadmin
decimation: now, I do think usg has a real problem with its 'secret services' running amock, making a mess of things, and generally being completely untransparent to anybody
asciilifeform: mats: down to business - what's your position on the 'july plot' men ?
decimation: ?? tom cruise?
asciilifeform: traitors, heros ?
decimation: traitors to the third reich
asciilifeform: 20 july 1944.
decimation: they might have been heros to the allies, if they hadn't failed
asciilifeform: does anyone grasp my point ?
decimation: certainly. what is your position on mr. oleg of the kgb?
asciilifeform: usg tool.
asciilifeform: (see log)
decimation: traitor?
asciilifeform: point is that 'heroes hang when traitors triumph' (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: (my primary beef with kalugin is that he is one of the folks actively working to ensure that an honest primary history of the 20th c. can never be written; rather than anything he did in the wars of the empires)
decimation: certainly usg is gonna throw the book at snowden - how could anyone in the civil service have sympathy?
asciilifeform: the total war against honest history is a specifically 20th c. thing (if we discount chinese and egyptian monarchs who were deeply into rewriting the books)
decimation: and the romans too
decimation: although somehow many of the the 'damned memories' are still known today
asciilifeform: the ancients, must note, had a much easier job of it.
decimation: yes, but the problem today seems to be sorting signal from noise
asciilifeform: the item in the photo is a very peculiar building which i recently saw in nyc
asciilifeform: a little booth, in which one can enlist in the army; but it was 1) directly in the very centre of time square 2) fenced off, and guarded by police, no one could go in!
asciilifeform: 'Last September, investigators discovered that Ciccolo allegedly wanted to travel overseas to fight for ISIS, according to court documents recently unsealed. Then, Ciccolo began speaking with someone whom he didn't realize was an undercover operative. On July 3, the FBI watched him buy a pressure cooker from a Walmart in North Adams, Massachusetts.'
asciilifeform: mega-l0l
decimation: "wouldn't you really like to go to syria?"
decimation: what if he was just gonna cook beans?
coderwill: mats: you mentioned snowden shilling for tails
coderwill: mats: do you mean that as an insinuation that tails is not what it claims to be?
BingoBoingo: Tails probably fails to deliver what it promises
decimation: the only way to know is to read the code; build for self
assbot: Logged on 04-10-2013 15:21:32; mircea_popescu: i'm with asciilifeform's suggestion : that pps is prima facie evidence that the nsa is in fact currently decoding ALL traffic passing through all tor nodes, linking it to originating ips and storing this mess.
asciilifeform: plus his tor article (don't have the link handy atm)
asciilifeform: decimation: the thing is about as readable as bitcoin
coderwill: interesting
asciilifeform: coderwill: on top of the thousand and one other sins, tor linked in ssl at the height of 'heartbleed' - something which pretty much nobody is speaking of today
asciilifeform: 'let's pretend never happened!'
decimation: what's 'pps'
coderwill: asciilifeform: sorry, i don't understand this last point - linked in ssl?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74500 @ 0.00052244 = 38.9218 BTC [-] {6}
asciilifeform: coderwill: made use of 'openssl'
asciilifeform: decimation: see thread
coderwill: asciilifeform: ah, kk
decimation: oh, 'power point slides'?
decimation: wtf how is that proof of anything re: tor?
asciilifeform: iirc it was a snowdenism
decimation: it looks to me that they are whining about tor because it makes their job harder
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu << i had no idea that there even was a 'majorana ran off to ar' theory! >> http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/05/the-physicist-who-vanished-the-strange-fate-of-ettore-majorana
assbot: The Physicist Who Vanished: The Strange Fate of Ettore Majorana | Mysterious Universe ... ( http://bit.ly/1OEvRh2 )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ^ mega-physicist, possibly the top mind in the subject in entire 20th c., vanished, also famously, under odd circumstances
asciilifeform: 'I left to Venezuela because of disagreements with my father in April 1955. Once in Caracas, I went to Valencia with Ciro, a Sicilian friend, who presented me to a Mr. Bini. I connected Bini to Majorana thanks to Carlo, an Argentinian. He said “Do you realize who that guy is ? He’s a scientist. He’s got a brain you can’t imagine. He is mr. Majorana”. They had met in Argentina. He was of average height, with white hai
asciilifeform: r, few and wavy. The white hair of a man who was once black-haired. One could see it from the fact that he wore his watch over his shirt, so to wash his hands he opened his sleeves and black hair could be seen. He was shy, often silent, and if you invited him to a night club he wouldn’t come. He might have been 50-55 years old. He had a roman accent but one could see he was not. One could also see he was well-learned. He loo
asciilifeform: ked like a prince. I sometimes told him “What the hell do you live for ? You are always sad”. He said he worked, we dined together, then he would disappear for 10-15 days. He had a yellow Studebacker. He only paid for the gas, otherwise he looked always penniless. Sometimes I used to tell him “You care so much for this car and have all these papers”. These were sheets with numbers and commas, bars. He never wanted to b
asciilifeform: e photographed, and since I once had to lend him 150 bolivars, I sort of blackmailed him, I asked him to get a picture of him to send it to my family. He was shorter than I was. When I found the picture I decided to speak, otherwise it was useless for me to say I had known Majorana.”'
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