Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-08-28 | 2014-08-30 → ↓
asciilifeform: ;;google project sanguine
gribble: Project Sanguine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Sanguine>; BLDGBLOG: Project Sanguine and the Dead Hand: <http://bldgblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/project-sanguine-and-dead-hand.html>; the world's largest “radio” station - UW High Energy Physics: <http://www.hep.wisc.edu/~prepost/ELF.pdf>
decimation: asciilifeform: that 'websdr' page allows you to listen to existing elf/vlf transmitters like DHO38 (it comes in loud and strong) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLF_transmitter_DHO38
assbot: VLF transmitter DHO38 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
decimation: decoding the enciphered stream is an exercise for the interested reader :)
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2012/orgia-studenteasca/ << Grammar here is very... "Gymnastic"
assbot: Orgia studenteasca pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: Multi-hop whistler-mode ELF/VLF signals and triggered emissions excited by the HAARP HF heater | Stanford VLF Group
asciilifeform: HAARP << defunct, if i recall
asciilifeform: ^ was used at least as much for academwankage as for any military purpose.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo indeed.
decimation: asciilifeform: yes, I think you are right http://www.arrl.org/news/haarp-facility-shuts-down << hams hated it because of the HF spam
assbot: HAARP Facility Shuts Down
asciilifeform once inhabited an office with a mostly complete set of haarp manuals
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ^ was used at least as much for academwankage as for any military purpose. << Academewagen
decimation: "HAARP put the world on notice two years ago that it would be shutting down and did not submit a budget request for FY 15, Keeney said, “but no one paid any attention.” Now, he says, they’re complaining. “People came unglued,” Keeney said, noting that he’s already had inquiries from Congress. Universities that depended upon HAARP research grants also are upset, he said."
decimation: "we deserve free money in exchange for derp"
asciilifeform: decimation: more like 'mr derp's corner derp shop remains funded, why not us'
asciilifeform: ;;google golden fleece award
gribble: Golden Fleece Award - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Fleece_Award>; William Proxmire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Proxmire>; What Proxmire's Golden fleece Did For--And To--Science | The ...: <http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/10030/title/What-Proxmire-s-Golden-fleece-Did-For (1 more message)
decimation: perhaps said Congressmen could find a few hundred welfare recipients of various kinds to give up their benefits for ionospheric research
asciilifeform: usa is a circus for the eternal war between welfare leeches with degrees and ones without
decimation: of course I would rank haarp research far above most social science derpage, at least they are building stuff, trying ideas
asciilifeform: built. tried.
decimation: good point.
asciilifeform: it was also good flypaper for envirowhiners
decimation: like all gov't programs, nothing ever dies
asciilifeform: who were freed up now to climatederp
asciilifeform: (idea of pumping the ionosphere to solve the 'mains socket in your pocket' problem is quite old. dates to at least n. tesla.)
decimation: the us is too poor to afford leeches who climatederp all day
decimation: the ionosphere is a worthy research target, I'm just not sure a giant HF transmitter will help much in unraveling its secrets
asciilifeform: electric airplane, laser pistol, etc. would be neat.
decimation: it's just too bad that batteries are so terrible
asciilifeform: arguably even the concept of a 'good' battery has fundamental problems
asciilifeform: (fast discharge - explode.)
asciilifeform: the one known solution is called... fuels.
asciilifeform: we use them.
decimation: yeah it's hard to get much more 'nano' than ripping apart hydrocarbons for energy
asciilifeform: not a 'sexy' answer. no grantola for decimation.
decimation: I once spoke with an ee prof who explained that he had to justify his error correction/information theory research in terms of helping poor minorities
asciilifeform: never read grant applications. 'you can't unread it.'
decimation: one wonders about the brain-damaged minions employed by usg to oversee such things
asciilifeform: the braindamage is baked in. a hypothetical set of intelligent minions would just despair and fellate their pistols.
decimation: or take a well-paid sinecure in 'industry'
mircea_popescu: <decimation> the us is too poor to afford leeches who climatederp all day << they doin';t really cost as much as all that.
decimation: mircea_popescu: in the 'street beggar' sense?
mircea_popescu: decimation suppose you meet one of them, and you really like each other.
mircea_popescu: can she afford to come over for a fuck ?
decimation: so their cost is well distributed among the population (group)
mircea_popescu: seems to me if she can't even afford to get fucked she must be pretty damned cheap.
mircea_popescu: self-projected pretense to the contrary notwithstanding
mircea_popescu: (and for a needed counterbalance in all the "onoes pesos" derpage : argentinian hipster chick - mostly can)
decimation: I suspect half of the 'occupy' protesters were either unpaid 'interns' or students living on mommy's stipend
asciilifeform: can she afford to come over for a fuck >> in usa, transport is massively subsidized (see earlier discussions re: silicon valley & slave labour for why)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform only justified transport.
asciilifeform: so pretty much everyone imagines that they merit a personal box on wheels, and carries on living the pretense
ben_vulpes: these wheelboxen drive me insane
decimation: usg does much to encourage this notion among the masses
ben_vulpes: get on a bike.
ben_vulpes: push your meat around.
ben_vulpes: quit wasting precious hydrocarbons ffs
asciilifeform: to the point that, ask american, what he will do immediately prior to starving, he'll answer - 'live in car'
asciilifeform: this scenario actually plays out routinely
decimation: definitely, it's easy to find 'car bums'
asciilifeform: in that folks will liquidate their dwelling, clothes, etc. - to fuel the beast.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i saw this yes.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: a transition in the lifecycle
asciilifeform: (for the psychiatric rumunations re: how & why - straight to herr orlov)
asciilifeform: there even exist special grounds devoted to shanty towns where people live in (normally engine-less) trailers.
decimation: there is something deeply weird about the average usian's compunction to get in a car to go 1/2 mile
decimation: like, the entire population is ready for some weird road warrior future maybe?
asciilifeform: war - required fuel.
asciilifeform can't help but remember that atrocious film, where the last remaining tanker, still full, inhabited by motorcycle (!) gang, which smokes.
asciilifeform: ^ 'water world.'
decimation: heh that was a terrible movie, vague remember that part.
decimation: I remember when that movie came out it was big news how terrible it was
decimation: somehow all the terrible movies today don't make the same news
asciilifeform: i vaguely recall that it broke records for cost
decimation: "nobody knows anything"
assbot: List of most expensive films - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
decimation: at least 80% of the movies on that list are turds. goes to show that money doesn't buy shit in hollywood
asciilifeform: in modern usa, any 'mega-project' - whether film, golden airplane, whatever - is at least partially a 'laundry.'
assbot: How Marvel Became the Envy (and Scourge) of Hollywood
asciilifeform: mike church was ripped a new arse here, but he had a good piece on how such 'laundries' work
decimation: "Then came one of the most spectacular eight-film runs in history, with a combined gross of $6.1 billion for Marvel Studios movies. But the 71-year-old Perlmutter hasn't mellowed. Under his tightfisted management, Marvel has become one of the most admired, envied and, in some quarters, resented entertainment companies. The 300-employee outfit has thrived despite insistence on ever-stricter creative controls and a reputation for
decimation: extreme cheapness that strikes many accustomed to old-school industry dealings as disrespectful."
asciilifeform: e.g., a faux 'startup' will distribute bezzlars by creating 'leadership positions' for high-born idiots to occupy
decimation: asciilifeform: the purpose being to attract more bezzle funding?
asciilifeform: why the latter can't draw the bezzlars straight from the 'printing press' - ask them, not me
asciilifeform: purpose is to 'wash' the bezzlars and maintain 'merit' illusion for the lumpens to swallow
asciilifeform: at least, according to church
asciilifeform: (i haven't a more parsimonious hypothesis)
decimation: which would partially explain why the midwestern kulaks flock to silicon valley to pay to work for google et. al.
decimation: "Perlmutter is not featured on Disney's website (conversely, the heads of its Pixar and Lucasfilm divisions are), but he has shown no sign of relaxing on fiscal control simply because Marvel has become part of a big conglomerate. "
assbot: Silicon Valley and the Rise of the Disneypreneur | Michael O. Church
asciilifeform: or maybe it was another
decimation: Taleb would probably say that being cheap is antifragile, the less you spend the lower your risk and the more likely random events will pay off
decimation: asciilifeform: it's a good theory, but it pretty much goes along the lines of "you go to harvard so you can be roommates with the billionaires' son"
asciilifeform: church's version is more like 'you go to harvard if you're the billionaire's son and need to be merit-washed before being awarded your crown grant - or if you're an idiot, took bait, had parents with good credit'
asciilifeform: 'merit-washing' is a real thing, even if herr church pulled it fortuitously out of own arse
asciilifeform: consider the career of, e.g, senator j. mccain.
decimation: he was in some ways fortunate to end up in the hanoi hilton
asciilifeform: rumour has it that he crashed virtually every machine he had the misfortune to sit in
asciilifeform: and may even have destroyed a ship (own goal)
decimation: unsurprising given his obviously random & hotheaded nature
asciilifeform: a more fanciful rumour is that the character 'launchpad mcquack' in disney's 'duck tales' cartoon - who crashes every machine he sits in - was based on herr mccain.
decimation: "Their [VC's] ability to coast, and to fund suboptimal founders, rests on the fact that no one is paying attention to whether they do their jobs well, the assumption being that we (technologists) will stay on their manor, passively keeping our heads down and saying, “politics is someone else’s job; I just want to solve hard problems.”"
asciilifeform: though he doesn't appear as a commander
decimation: asciilifeform: I hadn't heard that one, hilarious
asciilifeform: church (evidently in some other piece, forget which) likens the vc circus to the process whereby american 'pop musicians' are industrially manufactured by, among other outfits, disney corp.
decimation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire << LOL I didn't realize it was Mccain's plane that fired the missile
assbot: 1967 USS Forrestal fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: where a well-born (though not always - gotta have the lumpenbait) hack is carefully groomed, lipstick is put on the sow, is heavily advertised, 'a star' is made
decimation: groomers rake in bank over the hype and then move on...
asciilifeform: and in the process, 'merit-washed' bezzlars are distributed into the preordained pockets.
asciilifeform: this is how the anglo 'nobility' solved the primogeniture problem.
asciilifeform: they don't bequeath their fortunes/lands/etc in the traditional way
decimation: oh I misread the wiki article, mccain's plane was the probable 'victim'
asciilifeform: (and were happy to have this taxed out of existence to zap the 'middle')
decimation: asciilifeform: so you are saying that the landed barons would 'ensure' that their eldest sons were worthy - or fail to inherit?
asciilifeform: different point - that the modern 'nobles' finessed the problem of having a finite fiefdom to bequeath
asciilifeform: (and necessarily subdivide into insignificance or follow primogeniture)
asciilifeform: problem is solved using a device called a bezzlar.
mircea_popescu: *BingoBoingo wonders as a lifelong USian what professions might exist in actual economies <<< here's one. while sitting idly after a dinner of delicious empanadas, i did the math with the girls. the profit selling them in the street (like people do)'d have been 5 to 10 pesos a pop. any one of them could have easily cleared 2-3-5k pesos a day, more than enough to live by.
asciilifeform: and the above hypothesis concerns one of the mechanisms for disbursing bezzlars in a 'socially acceptable' way.
mircea_popescu: there's no "profession" in the real world, just skill ability and utility.
asciilifeform: decimation: are you surprised that the official story has mccain as a bystander ?
decimation: asciilifeform: no, and all of the documentaries I've seen on the subject failed to mention his involvement
asciilifeform: 'wouldn't do - polite society!'
decimation: the thing is, Admiral McCain probably didn't have to issue any special instructions to 'finesse' the investigation, the investigators probably all thought it would be a brilliant plan
asciilifeform: special instruction are rarely needed.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's this sort of thing I've wondered about. The proverbial "hotdog stand" where a person serves good tacos al pastor or canitas in urbanity.
asciilifeform: most muppets know just what to do, without being spoken to - like athletes on a multinational sporting team.
mircea_popescu: and the thing is, if police hassles you, which is unlikely in the first place, yo ucan just give them one
mircea_popescu: it's not a bribe per se. it';s a PROOF.
mircea_popescu: ie, if your shit's good you can stay.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:01:37; asciilifeform: 'amer. gulag, 5 yrs on the starred-and-striped cot'
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: 'american does not believe the man in the uniform to be a bandit, with whom one can come to an understanding. he believes him to be a robot, who must be feared. american law enforcers are able to, by pressing on the keyboard of a multitude of laws and regulations, 'transmute' the most insignificant peccadillo into a monstrous deed. FBI did not need to beat up Monica or toss into her purse heroin or am
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Alternate idea is rent some space and run a "business center" where the presence of a Gringo can radiate Norte Americano sitcoinness upon their internet browsing
decimation: working for the democratic police, democratic gov't, etc is always going to be a raw deal
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo doubt that'll work.
decimation: if you actually have skills and are worth your wages, the lumpens will hate with envy. There's no one 'in charge' to decide who gets to be paid well and who gets to be fired
decimation: mircea_popescu: your point a few days ago: how much would you have to pay your enemy to help you in a time of need is apropos
mircea_popescu: tis a problme.
asciilifeform: 'feminglish' has a term, 'frienemy', for what is essentially a symbiotic enemy. what's that? see, e.g., microshit bailing out apple corp. in the '90s.
asciilifeform: this kind of 'enemy' - you pay, and cherish - because without him, nothing.
decimation: asciilifeform: but microsoft only needed apple to save themselves from usg's monopoly busting agencies
asciilifeform: not necessarily.
asciilifeform: usg is learning the cost of letting its cherished frienemy pop
decimation: what? the ukraine?
asciilifeform recently ran into the fellow who once used to own the place he lives in. the man lamented how his belt tightened when ussr popped - was 'sovietologist' of a kind
decimation: I suspect much of the upper dod management are 'old sovietologists'
decimation: they were the least likely to find a 'job' in industry
asciilifeform: but this connects here not from the starvation of 'sovietologists', but the dismal fate of every 'coke' who loses his 'pepsi'
asciilifeform: the proverbial deer on the island where last wolf dies, etc.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo doubt that'll work. << If anything seems like it has greater capitol requirements and a lesser return than slinging carnitas
decimation: like haarp, the ussr provided a ready excuse for all kinds of usg spending
asciilifeform: or, the traditional explanation for how italy went from an interesting place to pesthold (unification. warring states - think. unified empire - stagnates)
asciilifeform might ruminate re: u.s. collapse as an autoimmune pathology, but must go to bed.
decimation: yeah me too, but that's an interesting thought, and I think it is visible with this ukraine business
pete_dushenski: !s migraine
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2014 13:50:52; mircea_popescu: nubbins` reminds me of the woman that claimed she can'tr fuck because migraine
pete_dushenski: so s/migraines with "sad" and "hormones"
pete_dushenski: that card had been played before, and it had worked before
pete_dushenski: but not ce soir.
pete_dushenski: result? "i love you"
pete_dushenski: it's like i'm becoming a man or something. feels good.
pete_dushenski: decimation: mircea_popescu: growing up in the 90's I witnessed Brahmin culture shift from vaguely rock 'n roll to thug rap << now it's all skinny jeans, flanel shirts, piercings, tats, and drinking from mason jars
decimation: pete_dushenski: which is interestingly close to 'redneck', generally the hipster's enemy
pete_dushenski: it's definitely a hybrid between the two
pete_dushenski: "now that mason jars are on top, now that my fellow executives and I are goddamn beverage conquistadors, we’re going to enjoy this cocaine-fueled rocket ride for as long as it lasts. I’m blasting off to fucking Mars, dicksuckers, and I’m headed straight through the belly of the goddamn sun!" - James E. Lillie, CEO, Ball Mason Jars
assbot: Were Going To Enjoy This Cocaine-Fueled Mason Jar Rocket Ride For As Long As It Lasts | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: all hail the benevolent socialist state of oregon << ontario, biggest province, has this as well. since gm and ford went to mexico this is the only thing keeping their head above water.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Also ""WARNING: Do not attempt to take any firearm into Mexico << i carried a .45 all through the us customs, into mexico and back into europe. nobody gave a shit. << dayum. did they even check the chamber?
pete_dushenski: well i guess there's xrays
midnightmagic: flannel :)
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: negrated him for pimping pirate << meh. i got the same shit from usagi. it's a badge of honour nao
pete_dushenski: decimation: a more interesting question is: how does 'black music' go from louis armstrong to thug rap in 50 years? << dad, is that you in there?
pete_dushenski: must've heard 1000x about "real black people's music"
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ww2. most of the better frenchmen got shot. << i thought the point of surrendering was precisely so that this didn't happen, as it did in ww1, n'est pas?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: inasmuch as bitcoin is a lot more fascist than stalin ever got... i guess prepare for a helluva lot o' love. << cuddles and hugs for everyone!
danielpbarron: !up Beyond_Bitcoin
Beyond_Bitcoin: what is bitcoin assets all about?
Beyond_Bitcoin: there we go thats a good start ;)
mircea_popescu: Beyond_Bitcoin bitcoin.
Beyond_Bitcoin: cool you have a little freenode up and running
assbot: ben keyhotee (Beyond_Bitcoin) auf Twitter
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
Beyond_Bitcoin: thanks for that, but i mean the "assets" part
danielpbarron: a useful or valuable thing, person, or quality.
Beyond_Bitcoin: with regard to bitcoin
danielpbarron: things and people who are useful or valuable to bitcoin
Beyond_Bitcoin: this is a cool little deal you've got going here
Beyond_Bitcoin: i like the links up top to your blog(s)
danielpbarron: what is beyond bitcoin?
Beyond_Bitcoin: an umbrella term
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> or, the traditional explanation for how italy went from an interesting place to pesthold (unification. warring states - think. unified empire - stagnates) << this is not a very good explanation.
mircea_popescu: the better explanation is that continental bureaucracy went from inept to able, and so the charles that once was content to just fuck the best whores in venice as a prize for his winnings
mircea_popescu: soon decided he wants to administer the place instead.
Beyond_Bitcoin: essentially it is a platform for low barrier to setting up/attending virtual event
Beyond_Bitcoin: excuse me: Low barrier to entry*
pete_dushenski: Beyond_Bitcoin: the barrier to entry isn't as low as it used to be
pete_dushenski: #b-a now employs the +v model whereby you have to have a gpg registered identity and a rating from someone already in the club
TheNewDeal: that's fluffypony's email << priceless
Beyond_Bitcoin: we have a Mumble server setup so anyone can set up their own dev hangouts, meetups and other events...invite crypto-enthusiasts and journalists to attend the events, record in real time without paying entry fees or having to travel long distances
pete_dushenski: Beyond_Bitcoin: and how's that going?
mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu: ww2. most of the better frenchmen got shot. << i thought the point of surrendering was precisely so that this didn't happen, as it did in ww1, n'est pas? <<< maybe. who's to know.
pete_dushenski: fair enough
Beyond_Bitcoin: actually not bad. i personally focus on bitshares but the server is open to others who like different tech
RagnarDanneskjol: oh no not bitshares
mircea_popescu: !s bitshares
Beyond_Bitcoin: actually bitshares itself is far better than most people think
assbot: /hashtag/BitsharesX?src=hash is proof that cryptocurrency developers have no grasp of basic economics.I'm kinda embarrassed for Larimer.
Beyond_Bitcoin: actually daniel...thanks
Beyond_Bitcoin: that link pretty much sums it up
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: have you read de maistre?
Beyond_Bitcoin: i am not only talking about bitsharesx btw..
Beyond_Bitcoin: it is important to make that distinction
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski have not
BingoBoingo: Why all of this making logs when Imma trying to read Trilema?
mircea_popescu: unless you mean lemaitre ?
Beyond_Bitcoin: with that said, if you look at cryptocurrencies as towns...bitcoin is one of the only ones with any semblance of infrastructure that accepts it.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: a i do not. i only ask because de maistre came up in britannica's articles on fascism.
Beyond_Bitcoin: sure there are a few coins that have a few interesting ways of paying for stuff, but all altcoins are relatively "ghost towns"
Beyond_Bitcoin: reallly have no reason to be valuable because they cannot really be easily transferred for services of value.
mircea_popescu: <Beyond_Bitcoin> invite crypto-enthusiasts and journalists to attend the events, record in real time without paying entry fees or having to travel long distances <<< so was there an actual journalist ?
TheNewDeal: it's better than shit?
Beyond_Bitcoin: define "actual journalist"
mircea_popescu: someone who doesn't write crap for free.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski i guess now ima have to fill this hole.
Beyond_Bitcoin: damn man...that is kind of tough. almost like diane feinstein saying "bloggers aren't journalists and shouldn't have 1st amendment protections"
mircea_popescu: !s reutersemily
mircea_popescu: i don't recall all the others. this chick stuck because she was uniquely sensible.
pete_dushenski: "Maistre, writing in The St. Petersburg Dialogues that 'all power, all subordination rests on the executioner: he is the horror and the bond of human association. Remove this incomprehensible agent from the world, and the very moment order gives way to chaos, thrones topple, and society disappears.'"
mircea_popescu: seems a tad rich.
pete_dushenski: "De Maistre condemned the 18th-century Enlightenment for having subverted the dominance of traditional religion and traditional elites and paid homage to the public executioner as the protector of a divinely sanctioned social hierarchy."
Beyond_Bitcoin: btw...love the name of your bot
Beyond_Bitcoin: fucking classic
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu he seems a bit on the religious and bloody side
mircea_popescu: Beyond_Bitcoin it pretty much is a bitcoin classic yeah.
Beyond_Bitcoin: you guys really should consider stopping by the mumble
mircea_popescu: the bitcoin rift guild had a mumble, nobody really used it.
Beyond_Bitcoin: We'll be bringing on the dev from the FollowmyVote DAC that is soon to be launched
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Remember the journalist that quit forbes and annoys congressmen nao? What was her nick? I remember her name was Boring.
mircea_popescu: prissygirl something
Beyond_Bitcoin: we use it to organize community events/meetups...etc.
pete_dushenski: perianne
pete_dushenski: i think her nick was bitcoingirl
pete_dushenski: she's speaking alongside krawisz at some upcoming disneyland "conference"
pete_dushenski: "In 1926 Taittinger declared that the primary goal of his Patriotic Youth was to “defeat the progress of communism by any means necessary,” adding that “We defend the hierarchy of classes.…Everyone knows that there will always be different social levels, the strong and the weak, the rich and the poor, the governing and the governed.”"
pete_dushenski: in addition to his youth group, french pete also ran a little champagne bizniz
pete_dushenski: a champagne brand that lives to this day and was, get this, the "official champagne of the 2014 fifa world cup"
pete_dushenski: i gotta get me a bottle of this stuff nao
assbot: Taittinger - Official Champagne of the 2014 FIFA WORLD CUP
mircea_popescu: tittinger ?
pete_dushenski: just found a bottle NV Taittinger Brut Reserve: 40% Chardonnay, 35% Pinot Noir, 25% Pinot Meunier by my place for $55
pete_dushenski: that's happening
pete_dushenski: cheaper than veuve
mircea_popescu: blog it!
pete_dushenski: will do :)
pete_dushenski: "Although circumstances sometimes made accommodation to political liberalism necessary, fascists condemned this doctrine for placing the rights of the individual above the needs of the Volk, encouraging “divisiveness” (i.e., political pluralism), tolerating “decadent” values, and limiting the power of the state."
pete_dushenski: not sure that i see bitcoin following this bit of "fascist doctrine"
pete_dushenski: "Fascist propagandists also attacked cultural liberalism, claiming that it encouraged moral relativism, godless materialism, and selfish individualism and thereby undermined traditional morality."
pete_dushenski: this is closer
pete_dushenski: good question then: does bitcoin have an "-ism?"
pete_dushenski: i want to say no
pete_dushenski: for -isms are the professions of things.
pete_dushenski: that is, their label rather than their utility and ability
pete_dushenski: but maybe there's a flexible and subtle enough label out there for our little world eater
pete_dushenski: ye olde exercise for the alert reader
assbot: fascism (politics) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
RagnarDanneskjol: objectivism?
pete_dushenski: ;;ud objectivism
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=objectivism | The philosophical ideals populated by Ayn Rand that a man (or woman) is only entitled to what he has earned. It also promotes the right to life, a life free from ...
RagnarDanneskjol: yea, I kno. you dig into that book yet?
pete_dushenski: about 70 pages in
pete_dushenski: enjoying it so far :)
pete_dushenski: ya i'm just getting into it but it's a big thing to lug to latvia and estonia so i'll have to put it down for a few weeks
pete_dushenski: off on saturday!
RagnarDanneskjol: neat. watch out for vampires
pete_dushenski: i survived romania, should be ok
pete_dushenski: it's the legal whoors you gotta watch out for
pete_dushenski: slip a little g in your drink… bam! no wallet.
pete_dushenski: that's why i wear nail polish
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes Live From 504 is probably my all-time fave ;D
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs : Bitcoin
assbot: unsavorygarnish comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
RagnarDanneskjol: yea, btcd is the shit. only real work being done in bitcoin. i forked the day they published last year - prompted me to learn golang, which is also the shit
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: see? blogging is cool! welcome back.
xmj: ha
pete_dushenski: a right. bon soir b-a!
cazalla: http://www.brw.com.au/p/business/bitcoin_might_become_money_says_PWgFfk3KR80TEaWuRLQ52I "There are 13 million Bitcoins in circulation around the globe, with a market value of $US6.4 billion ($6.9 billion). About 7 per cent of the coins in circulation are believed to be held by Australians." I wonder how they figure that?
assbot: Bitcoin might become money, says Tax Office
cazalla: unless zhou and tradefortress stole that many
BingoBoingo: cazalla: You forget Vexual
BingoBoingo: Vexual holds either 0 or all of the coins
assbot: GAWMiners' Hashlet Sells More in Bitcoin Sales Per Day than Overstock
mircea_popescu: justusranvier is all over it too.
mircea_popescu: "Investment banks don't like people acting in ways that make them look bad. Image is everything when your customers are rich elites. The antagonism going on with the Conformal team is not maximizing the dollar value they are being paid to do work. A cooperative effort where teams share ideas and cross-pollinate with less ego gets more done.
mircea_popescu: Since Conformal doesn't act this way, either they have a like-minded funder who enjoys watching strife, or their funder doesn't know how badly they're behaving."
mircea_popescu: omg fu derps. they're NOT behaving badly. you are.
mircea_popescu: also your mother is a sickly whore.
fluffypony: this whole thing has barrelled into such aggression and anger
fluffypony: and all because of Mike having a Hearn-ia
fluffypony: *du du dish*
mircea_popescu: because gavin not listening to what i told him to do when i told him to do it.
mircea_popescu: people have this idiotic attide whereby "whatever, i do what i want"
fluffypony: Gavin is very busy dressing up like a mad scientist to accept awards on behalf of Satoshi Nakamoto
fluffypony: because that's funny, right guise? guise?
mircea_popescu: then six months down the road let's wonder why the asshole's stretched and there's no path back to innocence.
mircea_popescu: his problem.
mircea_popescu: karpeles was too busy to obey too, there's a never ending string.
mircea_popescu: but no difference, the gallows hold.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I can actually see you in a robe and wizard hat standing on a bridge going "YOU SHALL NOT PASS"
fluffypony: nubbins needs to make that into a t-shirt
mircea_popescu: i spend most of my time that way.
mircea_popescu: "what is your favorite hole ?"
mircea_popescu: "WRONG ANSWER!"
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Bitcoin Core devs behaving badly does not preclude the Conformal team behaving badly. This is not a binary condition.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic certainly.
mircea_popescu: when in shit, much more important than finding saints, is steadily applying nooses to the worst behaved.
mircea_popescu: problem fixes itself over time.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: I'm not a bitcoin core dev. Are you saying *I* specifically am behaving badly, or are you using me as a bitcoin core rep to make comments about them?
mircea_popescu: you'll need to supply some context.
midnightmagic: 00:44 <+mircea_popescu> omg fu derps. they're NOT behaving badly. you are.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.27543277 = 2.4789 BTC [+] {3}
midnightmagic: that's after you quoted my comment on reddit
mircea_popescu: i had no idea it's yours, but at issue is the nonsensical "k. A cooperative effort where teams share ideas and cross-pollinate with less ego gets more done"
mircea_popescu: this isn't kansas.
midnightmagic: It works. When teams can't work directly together, as in NetBSD and OpenBSD, the two teams can cooperate very effectively as separate teams.
mircea_popescu: the misbehaviour is to display this sort of behavior.
mircea_popescu: it only works in environments other people maintain for your benefit.
mircea_popescu: it does not work in environments which have to self-maintain, especially not against significantly hostile pressure.
midnightmagic: And yet I just pointed out an counter-example to your assertion.
mircea_popescu: you think you did at any rate.
mircea_popescu: look at what exactly happened in openbsd once the teeth of the nsa stooges were felt.
midnightmagic: That was fud.
mircea_popescu: de raadt kicked all the misbehaving doods to the curb.
mircea_popescu: no, it was not fud.
midnightmagic: No, they excised themselves and left deRaadt holding the bag.
mircea_popescu: you're more than welcome to continue livng in your imaginary blind kitten fantasyland. you're too old to be particularly useful in any political sense anyway.
mircea_popescu: just, don't be amazed that nobody with actual involvement cares for your nonsense.
cazalla: BingoBoingo, you know that scammy site is in google news, such a joke
mircea_popescu: once we've hung dutta, hearn and so forth and the bitcoin republic is well established, if you're still alive, you can come back and teach at the university or w/e you can do.
fluffypony: cazalla: which one, coindusk?
cazalla: fluffypony, that too but i am referring to cryptocoinsnews
midnightmagic: Hush now, that silliness doesn't work on me tonight. What do you care what I say about Conformal?
mircea_popescu: i don't. i care enough about the perniciously castrated "o noes, don't argue boys, cocksuckers getr more done" to point out it doesn't belong in bitcoin, or generally among grown-ups.
midnightmagic: Really all you're telling me is when I mention an inconvenient truth it bothers you. You know I'm right. Regardless of whether you think I matter or not.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure it's all the rage at the mahjongg club, but again, to exist that retirement house in florida needs a lot of externalities in place.
midnightmagic: ehh, don't feel like arguing anymore. Enough, enough.. I'll stop.
BingoBoingo: cazalla: I'm less concerned about the news site than the product they are shilling
cazalla: scammers gon' scam but it's easier with enablers like ccn
punkman: TheNewDeal, got some more lulz from that scammer in the end: http://dpaste.com/2T582KP
assbot: dpaste: 2T582KP
jurov: BingoBoingo wonders how long Coinroll contributed << it's set till september 1
BingoBoingo: jurov: Cool, I'll try to get something new up in the next 12 hours to try to lure more people.
mircea_popescu: interesting, who knew ads have a motivational function for the publisher.
pankkake: I suppose since the ads are per site, I can't have an account for a bunch of sites? it wouldn't make sense for advertisers anyway…
mircea_popescu: punkman why is the guy trying to scam dollars anyway.
mircea_popescu: fucking noobs.
mircea_popescu: pankkake the idea is to have good sites.
punkman: mircea_popescu: no idea, but I like that I trolled him twice with "o hey sent money to address I already had"
punkman: he wanted my BTC too, but told him both time I didn't have any
punkman: not enough lulz ROI in any case. next time I'm ignoring
pankkake: maybe create a blog "scamming scammers"?
mircea_popescu: aite well, enough excitement for one day. later all.
BingoBoingo: pankkake: Well 419 hunting is a thing
pankkake: I know, I've read some hilarious ones
assbot: Rating Details for User 'gawzirabaws'
punkman: I only gave him $100 so meh
punkman: but my new rule is to avoid anyone with reputation on btcjam
pankkake: good idea
pankkake: ;;rate punkman 1 scams scammers
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
pankkake: ;;rate punkman 1 scams scammers
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user punkman has been recorded.
punkman: I totally failed at scamming them
pankkake: ;;gettrust gawzirabaws
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user pankkake to user gawzirabaws: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=pankkake&dest=gawzirabaws | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=gawzirabaws | Rated since: Thu Jun 19 21:31:33 2014
pankkake: the intention is there
punkman: ;;rate gawzirabaws -10 took my money and stopped responding. owes me 0.2 BTC. has 30 BTC outstanding on btcjam
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user gawzirabaws has changed from -1 to -10.
assbot: Pay My Bills | Dominatrix Bunny
punkman: (dude's paypal led to that dominatrix)
punkman: wonder if it's gf or mum
punkman: or maybe he's just very commited to paying her bills
punkman: the worst is all the otc people going "gawzirabaws iz a scammer? no wai!"
BingoBoingo: Social engineering is the big threat.
BingoBoingo: Not halfassed impersonation
punkman: dem splits
BingoBoingo: Ya rly
BingoBoingo: !s medium.com
BingoBoingo: !up bats_cd03
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.25798922 = 2.3219 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 40 @ 0.2511175 = 10.0447 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 500 @ 0.00399998 = 2 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: ;;ident rdekley
gribble: Nick 'rdekley', with hostmask 'rdekley!sid32464@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xhjblalcpfvcvsgb', is not identified.
punkman: ;;ident xe4l
gribble: Nick 'xe4l', with hostmask 'xe4l!~unknown@162.243.112.233', is not identified.
kakobrekla: BingoBoingo first link is broked
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.24711111 = 2.224 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Schneier on Security: ISIS Threatens US with Terrorism
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00085271 = 19.1007 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Schneier on Security: The Problems with PGP
asciilifeform hasn't read schneier in a while
assbot: President of Russia
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.58649525 BTC to 15`045 shares, 10545 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 8.46391168 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 736 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SCRYPT] [PAID] 1.94879560 BTC to 29`438 shares, 6620 satoshi per share
TomServo: I was recently asked if I had any examples of economists that have 'jumped ship' to bitcoin and didn't readily have any. Do you folks know some?
asciilifeform: looks like conformal co. passed the 'test.'
assbot: BIP0064 – Not yet. | Conformal Systems, LLC.
danielpbarron: TomServo, Peter Schiff, perhaps.. but I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "jumped ship to bitcoin"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 753 @ 0.00068769 = 0.5178 BTC [-] {12}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1986 @ 0.00063248 = 1.2561 BTC [-] {14}
pankkake: "I prefer test-to-fail instead of test-to-pass type development" :)
asciilifeform: see herr dijkstra re: bugs.
asciilifeform: 'testing can reveal the presence [of bugs] but never the absence.'
pankkake: it's on a book?
TomServo: danielpbarron: Not a bad example I suppose. Hard to relay the context in which it was asked..closest I can come to is: Was previously balls deep in the bezzel economy and rejecting of bitcoin and has since 'saw the light', as it were.
pankkake: I should read the great masters/elders
pankkake: Price: $67.36 why :(
asciilifeform: price of what
Apocalyptic: the book I guess
assbot: A Discipline of Programming: Edsger W. Dijkstra: 9780132158718: Amazon.com: Books
TomServo: I was _not_ expecting those two MP comments to be approved.
Apocalyptic: pankkake, how come you order on amazon.com and not amazon.fr ?
pankkake: I don't, I just took the first google result
kakobrekla: amazon is a scam
kakobrekla: sometimes its totally worth checking com/uk/de/fr
kakobrekla: but you need to go to the last step, each time.
Apocalyptic: except .com calcules shipping from US
pankkake: I have a browser extension that does that
kakobrekla: now i feel like an even bigger idiot
assbot: Shoptimate : automatic price comparison on None - Shoptimate.com
kakobrekla: who would have thought.
pankkake: anyway, I often buy used
kakobrekla: btw does theat shop ASSistant take shipping into account
punkman: this one is handy sometimes https://pricenoia.com/
assbot: Pricenoia.com - Compare amazon prices
assbot: TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free
asciilifeform: ^ in english
asciilifeform: pankkake ^
pankkake: thanks
thestringpuller: kakobrekla: i demand assbot be open source!
pankkake: Apparently Calibre can convert it for my reader!
thestringpuller: You are hiding functionality from us!
thestringpuller: assbot is not transparent!
thestringpuller: etc. etc. etc.
pankkake: I should read Knuth too, but I might not have enough of one life
asciilifeform: pankkake: know that if you convert djvu to, e.g, pdf, it baloons 25-50x in size
asciilifeform: (djvu is the canonical b00k w4r3z format - wavelet compression)
pankkake: oh it's images
asciilifeform: naturally.
asciilifeform: where do you imagine these come from? some russian kid with camera
pankkake: lol, that must be such fun to read. I think I'll buy the book ;)
asciilifeform: must be such fun to read << imho this is the true purpose of the 'tablet' machines
asciilifeform: buy whichever has the most pixels - and you're golden.
pankkake: I have a rather standard e-ink device
asciilifeform: these typically don't come with the cpu horsepower to unpack djvu
asciilifeform: (although the latest unofficial russian patch for 'kindle dx' mostly works, if a bit laggy)
pankkake: well that's why there's Calibre, it should convert it to another format
asciilifeform: yeah, 200mB of pdf.
thestringpuller: okay I will be stashing paper wallets at dragon con in a scavenger hunt. you guys think 0.01 per paper wallet is cool?
asciilifeform: (nice thing about 'djvu' is that it automagically decompresses to whatever your native device resolution is, with no scaling op. hence speed.)
pankkake: why not. just fill them early enough so the tx fee won't be too high
pankkake: oh, that's nice. I was expecting some blurry image as a result
ben_vulpes: who runs penguirker?
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski "it's going down it's going down like there's a whale in the boat"
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ;;late tell pete_dushenski also: "if it ain't about money i go/nowhere i'm nailed to the floor"
gribble: Error: "late" is not a valid command.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski also: "if it ain't about money i go/nowhere i'm nailed to the floor"
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pankkake: ben_vulpes: me, it's fed by the http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com/ updater
assbot: Assets Assimilated
ben_vulpes: ah hi pankkake
ben_vulpes: i derped a feed together for cascadianhacker.com
assbot: missives from the post-megastate frontier
pankkake: I thought it already had a feed - http://cascadianhacker.com/index.xml (though it looks broken)
assbot: cascadian hacker
ben_vulpes: yeah that xml is totes broken.
ben_vulpes: my life is a patchwork of duct tape
ben_vulpes: van is a flawless crystal of tests tho
ben_vulpes: (hue)
ben_vulpes: (it's a joke)
pankkake: ok, I updated the URL + your nick
pankkake: you're not ashamed of that .php? :p
pankkake: sorry :(
pankkake: I didn't think the links would change
kakobrekla: these book readers you keep talking about, which is the one to get atm
pankkake: the sony ones looked interesting, but they are stopping making them
pankkake: I have a Kobo, it's nice enough, and reads epub
ben_vulpes: <pankkake> you're not ashamed of that .php? :p << not my service
ben_vulpes: they also emailed me my password in plaintext
ben_vulpes: dat fractal of bad design
ben_vulpes: oh god that's bad. "."?
ben_vulpes: never mind pankkake. sorry to bother everyone.
pankkake: the /./ is rewritten as / by most software, but I'm not doing any special processing to the url
ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: i use a kindle, would like a kindle dx.
asciilifeform: pankkake: penalty kick!
assbot: Logged on 31-03-2014 20:28:18; asciilifeform: 1btc for the motherland.
thestringpuller: ddue what the actual fuck just happened?
kakobrekla: yeah i think ill have to cover for that in the end. :)
thestringpuller: i'm never reading cascadian hacker again
asciilifeform: let him expiate his sin
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: afaik the dx is out of production, but can still be had.
kakobrekla: ascii you have a kindle or like seven different readers?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: 'kindle dx' for ordinary stuff, 'nexus 10' for high-res scans (like that dijkstra)
kakobrekla: isnt that like a phone or something
asciilifeform: ('nexus' - 2560x1600)
kakobrekla: ;;google nexus 10
gribble: Nexus 10 - Google: <http://www.google.com/nexus/10/>; Nexus 10 (16GB) - Devices on Google Play: <https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_10_16GB?id=nexus_10_16gb&hl=en>; Amazon.com : Google Nexus 10 (Wi-Fi only, 32 GB) : Tablet ...: <http://www.amazon.com/Google-Nexus-10-Wi-Fi-only/dp/B00ACVI202>
asciilifeform: nope. it's a heavy bugger of a 'tablet'
kakobrekla: a not a phone.
asciilifeform: bought solely because it had moar pixels.
thestringpuller: there's a nexus 10 now?
thestringpuller: lol what?
thestringpuller: is this what old people feel like. "new tech!?!?!?" "no that's been out for a year" "oh."
ben_vulpes: world keeps moving forwards while you're playing at being a dragon, thestringpuller
ben_vulpes: ;;google fuck you i'm a dragon
gribble: Fuck you, I'm a dragon! - Encyclopedia Dramatica: <https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Fuck_you,_I'm_a_dragon!>; Starblade Enkai - WikiFur, the furry encyclopedia: <http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Starblade_Enkai>; Fuck you, I'm a Dragon.: <http://peasy93.tumblr.com/>
thestringpuller: The world keeps moving forward while I hack in vi which is older than all of us except mircea_popescu
thestringpuller: since he's clearly like 50 or 60
ben_vulpes: uh ho
assbot: Pallas Cat Kittens -- 5 months old pt1 - YouTube
thestringpuller: lol cute kitten videos are universal
asciilifeform: damn why'd moiety have to starve
TheNewDeal: thestringpuller vi and not vim?
kakobrekla: ba failed to provide for the receptionist.
ben_vulpes: receptionist rates were too high
ben_vulpes: bitcoins now vs bitcoins later i guess
ben_vulpes: hard for anyone to value properly
TomServo: danielpbarron: your drama is lulzy
TomServo is amused.
danielpbarron: it's actually really boring; it just looks interesting from the few public fragments
TomServo: Ah - just got a chuckle out of that last rating.
asciilifeform: so i notice inscription on a pen i've been writing with for ages.
assbot: where'd this come from. - Imgur
TomServo: The truth is finally revealed!
asciilifeform: what's a day without a little mindfuck.
punkman: asciilifeform: is the cardano late because you can't figure out how to backdoor it?
asciilifeform: consignment of coke & virgins from the fuhrer is late.
kakobrekla: cardano backdoor? its that nsa pens fault.
kakobrekla: they forgot to put the label off
punkman: did you check the pen for backdoors?
kakobrekla: and how 'fast' is the pen?
asciilifeform: very slow.
asciilifeform: didn't even notice the ad on the barrel until took it apart (pen wouldn't fit through base hole of instrument that needed a plinth drilled to mount it, took out nib)
kakobrekla: spam filter filters
thestringpuller: TheNewDeal: i have vi aliased to vim. but the underlying of vim (vi) is old
asciilifeform waits to find a 'www.meta-nsa.lizard' pen under his pillow when waking up.
assbot: The “Worthless Currency Exchange” at Burning Man’s Camp Bitcoin | Re/code
asciilifeform: (horse heads are expensive these days)
BingoBoingo: Well, that's kind of the point of the horse head. Khartoum was a very expensive horse.
BingoBoingo: Wouldn't have the same impact if it were a glue horse.
punkman: "“The Bitcoin leader was arrested right before Burning Man ’cause he was maybe helping the FBI, and … Anyway, we’re the Dogecoin Camp now,” "
assbot: How Burning Man's Camp Bitcoin Became Camp Dogecoin
TheNewDeal: oh no
TomServo: Lachance’s web page about the camp lists only three rules, and one is: “Dogecoin must be pronounced ‘dogh-gee-coin’, not ‘dohj-coin’.”
TomServo: Well at least they got that going for them.
kakobrekla: no more dodgecoin? :(
kakobrekla: https://btctrip.com < heh, testimonial #1: charlie shrem, says: "btc trip is amazing"
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
assbot: BTCTrip - One for All, All for One!
jurov: doge is love!
kakobrekla: taaki also does not fail to mention the word.
TomServo: "After coding Bitcoin, I fly with btctrip. -Satoshi" sad
asciilifeform: even mentions Turdmeister.
TomServo: haha!
TheNewDeal: Satoshi's position was labeled "cryptocurrency prophet"
TheNewDeal: love it
TomServo wonders what the 3 musketeers saying has to do with anything.
danielpbarron: !up guest8374
devthedev: Is anyone in possession of a Trezor?
jurov: i am
devthedev: I'm having trouble with the mytrezor site
devthedev: Balances don't seem to be loading
asciilifeform: jurov: consider posting a photo of the internals
thestringpuller: is the trezor guy in wot?
devthedev: It's slush
Apocalyptic: ;;gpg info slush
gribble: User 'slush', with keyid 71D5C7F995DA2743, fingerprint 79BE846DC805C820FAD332CA71D5C7F995DA2743, and bitcoin address 1NQZT6jh3igPBME7T4ujejZGxdbjMub9DE, registered on Mon Apr 11 19:49:01 2011, last authed on Mon Mar 11 13:10:00 2013. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=slush . Currently not authenticated.
jurov: asciilifeform i have no idea how to pry it open.. maybe it'll go better with platic version
jurov: hmm, mytrezor site does not react to clicks
assbot: Hardware — TREZOR Technical Manual 1.0 documentation
asciilifeform: ^ interesting things here for the alert reader
asciilifeform no longer needs to buy the machine
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 100 @ 0.0650305 = 6.5031 BTC [+] {9}
asciilifeform: jurov: do you own a scope ?
jurov: no
thestringpuller: slush is russian no?
jurov: no, czech
thestringpuller: or is it czhech
thestringpuller: dman beat me to it
jurov: if i come around a scope, what am i to look for?
asciilifeform: чех, lol.
asciilifeform: jurov: watch the usb ground pin.
kakobrekla: ground compared to real ground ?
asciilifeform: compared to a distant ground, yes
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: what will that show?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: a bit of hiss, with likely a few bits of key mixed in.
asciilifeform: jurov: strictly speaking you don't need to open the unit for this.
asciilifeform: jurov: just tap a cheap microusb cable on the 'thin' end.
kakobrekla: battery power solves this neh ?
jurov: well, they will be like "of course don't use with untrusted cables"
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: afaik that product has no provision for use with own battery
kakobrekla: ur untrusted batteries
kakobrekla: myea would require a mod
asciilifeform: would require more than a simple electrical mod
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: but what will that accomplish. ELI5?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1000 @ 0.00060947 = 0.6095 BTC [-] {7}
asciilifeform: ;;google differential power analysis
gribble: Power analysis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_analysis>; Differential Power Analysis - Cryptography Research: <http://www.cryptography.com/public/pdf/DPA.pdf>; Introduction to Differential Power Analysis and Related Attacks: <http://www.cryptography.com/public/pdf/DPATechInfo.pdf>
thestringpuller: !last m s.mpoe
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00085271 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller ^
thestringpuller: I'll take a look asciilifeform
kakobrekla: didnt say simple :D
thestringpuller: actually I think a 5 year old could understand the wiki article
thestringpuller: much appreciated ascii
thestringpuller: so basically you're attempting to hack the trezor via DPA?
asciilifeform: from the published circuit, it seems to be asking for it.
kakobrekla: ill donate you a trezor if you want to attack it
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: perhaps after my current work is done
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: in the meantime, feel welcome to try it personally
assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/17FTR4B.txt )
jurov: Last 6 lines unbashed.
ben_vulpes: so here's an interesting interpersonal situation
ben_vulpes: there's client a, hosting company b, and consultants c
ben_vulpes: client brings in consultants to look at their security, and consultants ask for shell access to the server on which client sites are running. hosting company b flat declines consultants access to hardware.
ben_vulpes: assume that client a has the most cash flowing through the box by 2 orders of magnitude. is hosting company b's behavior reasonable?
ben_vulpes: keep in mind this is a wp hosting company using plesk.
jurov: did the client buy shell access? no? case dismissed.
assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0YFK8ZS.txt )
ben_vulpes: twist: wherever consultant suggests hosting move, that's where hosting will move.
ben_vulpes: but i see where you're coming from, jurov.
jurov: well.. that's fate of any company without admin capable to build stuff on bare metal
BingoBoingo: So my phone just got a bunch of MMS messages from phone numbers in Chicago which are registed as "landlines"
BingoBoingo: Prolly.
kakobrekla: (its what i use instead of 'nsa' for not to raise suspicion)
jurov: the messages were empty?
jurov: or you did not dare open?
BingoBoingo: Or to raise better kinds of suspicion. So you get a space ship instead of a phone
BingoBoingo: jurov: Dare not open
BingoBoingo: Even though I already treat the phone as tainted by design
ben_vulpes: open it open it open it
BingoBoingo: So this is really odd. The messages are fucking pictures of text. It's like these fuckers are texting over van-ads. What the fuck.
ben_vulpes: they're texting photos of van?
BingoBoingo: They are sending photos of text
ben_vulpes: what kind of text?
ben_vulpes: show meeeee
thestringpuller: who si they?
kakobrekla: you mean it looks like a ransom note?
BingoBoingo: It reads like some teachers gossiping about their students.
ben_vulpes: SHARE
BingoBoingo: Already been deleted. If the FBI wants to investigate a FERPA violation they can check my phone records, like they probably already are doing and check out those 630 phone numbers
ben_vulpes: probably the wise thing.
BingoBoingo: 630 being the area code and not the number of messages.
assbot: Citi: Miners and Merchants Are Keeping Bitcoin Prices Low
jurov: ;;bc,halfreward
gribble: Error: "bc,halfreward" is not a valid command.
assbot: "A Man Of Many Perversions" Federal Cybersecurity Head Convicted Of Child Porn Charges | Zero Hedge
BingoBoingo: If it isn't I'm impressed
jurov: ;;halfreward
gribble: Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Sat Aug 6 05:47:51 2016 UTC | Time remaining: 1 year, 48 weeks, 6 days, 8 hours, 40 minutes, and 0 seconds.
BingoBoingo: Fucking 20% diff increases, going to make the halving cum early
TheNewDeal: block 420000 it is?
jurov: 20% means max. 4 months earlier
Apocalyptic: do you compound it ?
jurov: it does not compund. it just means every period is 20% shorter.
TheNewDeal: ;;calc 600*.8*(420000-318140)/86400
gribble: 565.888888889
TheNewDeal: gribble says 707 days
assbot: Bitcoin Clock
TheNewDeal: clock says 707 days as well
jurov: obv they don't count with 20% increases
TheNewDeal: ;;calc 707*86400/((420000-318140)*600)
gribble: 0.999489495386
TheNewDeal: thats a 600 second block time eh
jurov: dunno why they don't extrapolate from sliding window or such
TheNewDeal: what do you mean?
jurov: use average time for last 10000 blocks instead of 10 minutes
kakobrekla: but that would make time go backwards at times!
TheNewDeal: hahaha
kakobrekla: fuck backwards going clocks.
jurov: in bitcoin it does. get used to it.
kakobrekla: only 10 min at a time
BingoBoingo: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 4 minutes and 26 seconds
jurov: actually i realized bitcoin is the only software project with milestones going sooner than expected
jurov: *estimated
jurov: with caveat thet ETA for rigorous spec is Inf
assbot: Beards In, Mullets Out – The Maneater
ben_vulpes: i guess that period's fine after all
TheNewDeal: bunch of quitters
BingoBoingo: !up x4nthyos
TheNewDeal: ;;ident x4nthyos
gribble: Nick 'x4nthyos', with hostmask 'x4nthyos!~xanthyos@c-174-63-38-125.hsd1.ma.comcast.net', is not identified.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.24003 = 0.9601 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.23557 = 4.7114 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 394 @ 0.0021002 = 0.8275 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: Tripping through IBMs astonishingly insane 1937 corporate songbook | Ars Technica
kakobrekla: yeah they called themselfs fags back then iirc
kakobrekla: yeah, page 14
TheNewDeal: nice call
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.2222 = 0.8888 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.22204 = 1.1102 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: i have beaten aws into submission
ben_vulpes: i can now provision my app cannon onto arbitrary amazon accounts
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1363 @ 0.00058476 = 0.797 BTC [-] {22}
RagnarDanneskjol: ;;later tell mircea_popescu pls ping me when yur back in the hood
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00085058 = 9.1012 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18955 @ 0.00085039 = 16.1191 BTC [-]
TheNewDeal: bc,stats
TheNewDeal: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 318162 | Current Difficulty: 2.38446700388033E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 318527 | Next Difficulty In: 365 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 3 hours, 50 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 26786940350.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 12.33932
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 40 @ 0.0217227 = 0.8689 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1745 @ 0.0008496 = 1.4826 BTC [-]
assbot: The Coinbase Blog Coinbase Insured
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol well like nao
RagnarDanneskjol: pmming momentarily
mircea_popescu: lycerion ce din genuni rasari cu-o-ntreaga lume,
mircea_popescu: nu cere fapte si minuni care n-au chip si nume.
RagnarDanneskjol: !up MolokoDeck
assbot: Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: i mean contravex
MolokoDeck: hello.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck hey. so as i was telling RagnarDanneskjol, i have no problem covering you if you can deliver the thing by what was it, end of sept ?
MolokoDeck: ready to talk about details for completing the cryptocontract bot. most of the unit tests are in place, but it's a good idea to fill in any desiderata or necessities to reasonable detail.
ben_vulpes: hey does anyone have a link to that thing where coinbase straight up blocks certain addrs?
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl " This got me thinking about the topic, so I decided to write up some thought I had on the subject a while ago." <<< the "i decided" device is the absolute worst intro mechanism for a blog post possible. it connotes this guy : http://trilema.com/2011/cred-ca-pe-alocuri-se-exagereaza/
assbot: Cred ca pe alocuri se exagereaza pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
MolokoDeck: end of september seems easily doable to have a working version going and available as source in a GIT repository.
mircea_popescu: so tell me again what you think this is, best way to go about thisa
MolokoDeck: one wants to time-stamp and "notarize" documents that are signed by counterparties with verifiable cryptosignatures registered with #bitcoin-otc WebOfTrust.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl otherwise, the point that "bitcoin is the chosen" by the very code is quite sound and an intelligent way to go about it.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck nevermind what one wants, say what the thing does.
MolokoDeck: a bot would sit in whatever channel (this one) and someone would invoke it with something like .notarize http://domian.tld/contract_0001.txt nick1, nick2, nick3 ... nickN
MolokoDeck: the bot would respond that all of the cryptosignatures of the listed nicks were registered with #bitocin-otc, their public key hashes matched and all the signatures were good.
mircea_popescu: it would extract the nicks from the signatures in the .txt. the mechanism to do this relies on gribble, did you see that ping ?
MolokoDeck: then the bot would return an SHA256 hash of the document, encode it as a bitcoin address and make a minimum non-spendable transaction, and log to a repository or blog the document with the sha256 hash and the transaction ID containing the encoded hash, and the block number it's in. It would wait to get a confirmation before doing this so the transaction would be in the blockchain.
RagnarDanneskjol: i think we;re still one step off here molo
MolokoDeck: if the signatures could be extracted from the document without knowing the corresponding public key, which I'm getting out of the public key registry that wot uses, that would be good.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck it cabn, gimme a sec to find the solution.
MolokoDeck: but so far I haven't dug in enough to know if that's doable given command line GPG, I think you have to validate against a public key.
mircea_popescu: in the endless desert of logs
RagnarDanneskjol: so much lawgs
mircea_popescu: !s nick from:gribble
assbot: 1190 results for 'nick from:gribble' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nick+from%3Agribble
MolokoDeck: simply having valid signatures doesn't guarantee that the people who made the contract signed it. which is why I'm using wot as an authority to find the registered keys for the parties asserted to have been signatories.
mircea_popescu: ;;seen bluemeanie4
gribble: bluemeanie4 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <BlueMeanie4> later
ben_vulpes: does anyone have a link to the lawsuit by the guy who sued the usg for the gold they 'borrowed'?
ben_vulpes: i don't even recall the name of the suit.
assbot: Logged on 12-08-2014 03:25:41; gribble: (gpg info [--key|--address] <nick>) -- Returns the registration details of registered user <nick>. If '--key' option is given, interpret <nick> as a GPG key ID.
gribble: Nick 'mircea_popescu', with hostmask 'mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu', is identified as user 'mircea_popescu', with GPG key id 8A736F0E2FB7B452, key fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452, and bitcoin address None
mircea_popescu: ;;gpginfo --key 0E2FB7B452
gribble: Error: "gpginfo" is not a valid command.
MolokoDeck: since the idea of a cryptocontract is that it's unenforceable and the value of performing as per the contract is one's reputation, it seemed important to make sure the claimed signatories are probably the signatories.
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg info --key 0E2FB7B452
gribble: No such user registered.
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg info --key 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452
gribble: No such user registered.
MolokoDeck: I can show you the unit tests doing that.
MolokoDeck: not sure I want the test server's URL going into a channel log though.
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg info --key 8A736F0E2FB7B452
gribble: User 'mircea_popescu', with keyid 8A736F0E2FB7B452, fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452, and bitcoin address None, registered on Fri Jul 22 08:39:10 2011, last authed on Fri Aug 29 20:36:13 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=mircea_popescu . Currently authenticated from hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu .
ben_vulpes: you can message gribble privately, MolokoDeck
MolokoDeck: actually, if one invites Tao_Jones in here and voices the bot some of these functions already work.
RagnarDanneskjol: he already jas it implemented in his bot
MolokoDeck: right, I could use gribble as an API.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck so basically, bot reads each document, extracts declared sig, puts it to gribble
mircea_popescu: this way you don't have to keep updated keyrings locally or verify signatures in any wya
MolokoDeck: instead I'm using the wot API and the associated public key server, adding the public key to the bot's keyring each time a contract is validated, then verifying the signatures.
MolokoDeck: I presume gribble uses the wot api.
MolokoDeck: ok. so you want to use gribble as an open agent.
MolokoDeck: that's fine and easier.
MolokoDeck: the way i've done it makes it somewhat stand-alone. if the public key registry is replaced it would be general cryptocontracts.
mircea_popescu: so i figure why no give clueless noobs a chance. send an order " http://mediaparty.info/2014/ << find the afterparty". half hour later, "i can't find anything. nobody is sayinga word on sm, there's ONE picture of a guy and some wine on twitter without enough background to find where it is or anything".
assbot: Hacks/Hackers BA Media Party, Buenos Aires, Argentina
mircea_popescu: all these fucking successful derps for crying out loud.
MolokoDeck: ok. not having to sweat keyring security seems a good idea since everyone trusts gribble.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck yup.
ben_vulpes: what's the "no congress shall be held to the agreements of a previous congress" citation?
ben_vulpes: regarding borrowing gold and refusing to pay it back?
ben_vulpes: i'm dying here halp pl
mircea_popescu: ;;google trilema story endless korea
ben_vulpes: zplzplpzlpzlpz
gribble: Decembrie 2013 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2013/12>; ZoneHedge Wow. Such Durden. Much info. About useless ... - Trilema: <http://trilema.com/2013/zonehedge-wow-such-durden-much-info-about-useless/>; Understanding Argentina's Coming Default, For Real This ... - Trilema: <http://trilema.com/2014/understanding-argentinas-coming-default-for-real- (1 more message)
MolokoDeck: what is of concern is that to make a valid transaction to the bitcoin blockchain one has to manage a web wallet. The first cut is going to use block.io since they have a simple API that includes the testnet (which I'm using in such a rudimentary way it doesn't matter whether it's obsolete features exist or not. the subset of features is common to the latest bitcoind)
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck so what's the concern ?
ben_vulpes: john m kerry thanks mircea_popescu !
MolokoDeck: probably none, other than that the software has to store the passphrase somewhere. like... on a server.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it goes back all the fucking way to 1930.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck it's never going to own more than a bitcent or w/e
MolokoDeck: or if the bot is started with a shell command the parameters end up in the process list.
mircea_popescu: if someone breaks in and steals the bitcent, hey, more power to them.
MolokoDeck: yeah, it's like 5 cents a document, about the cost of a xerox copy.
mircea_popescu: ok, so say what the thing is again, let's see if i say yes this time.
MolokoDeck: so the wallet just has to have a few centiBTC in it at a time.
MolokoDeck: if security concerns are de minimus I'm ready to finish it as planned.
RagnarDanneskjol: wanna run it down one more time for clarity molo? what it does exactly
MolokoDeck: bot sits in here. People point it at a cryptocontract with multiple signatories. it verifies the signatures. if they're good it creates an unspendable bitcoin transaction with the address encoding the SHA256 hash of the contract. When that transaction clears and is on the blockchain, it notifies the IRC channel and gives the URL of a logged copy of the document, it's associated hash, and a pointer to the blockchain transac
MolokoDeck: tion ID and/or block number.
mircea_popescu: it does not verify the signatures. it merely extracts w/e signature gpg sees in the document.
MolokoDeck: it also logs the documents to some kind of repostory or blog. Knowing the preferred format and web address of that ahead of time may be good, but that's like a quick mod to make it do whatever wherever.
mircea_popescu: o, that what you meant, "verifies" via google ?
mircea_popescu: shit. via gribble i mean.
mircea_popescu: i need more coffee, amphetamines and cuntjuice over here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11905 @ 0.00085367 = 10.1629 BTC [+] {2}
MolokoDeck: searching and indexing that blog sounds like a website backend function, not part of the bot.
RagnarDanneskjol wonders if single use wallets are better for this
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol nah i want it to always send from the same address.
MolokoDeck: some sort of "give the bot another wallet" IRC commandline function would work for that.
mircea_popescu: no bother.
MolokoDeck: ok. so it's presumed the signatures are valid?
mircea_popescu: if gribble says so, yes.
MolokoDeck: verifies using GPG or gribble.
mircea_popescu: no, not using gpg. using gribble.
mircea_popescu: when you feed a string to gpg you either get a "nonsense" complaint or a "signed by X" response, with a warning that "we can't know who x is "
mircea_popescu: this warning we squarely ignore, because if gribble knows who x is so do we
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "Now this wasn't particularly notable at all. Now a lot of mining companies are crawling" << you are not allowed to use now as the first word in two consecutive sentences
mircea_popescu: what is this, kansas ?
mircea_popescu: !up MolokoDeck
ben_vulpes: gribble does sigver?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nope.
MolokoDeck: you need the hash of the public key ... to get that it seems you need the public key. the PGP cryptosignatures on a document are kind of opaque if you don't have the public key already, apparently it uses the public key to determine whether the signatures match the unaltered document and are from the person who owns the private key matching the public key.
MolokoDeck: at least to do what I'm already doing with it. If this is easier than that then it's as good as done.
MolokoDeck: it's easy to spiff a static address with a few satoshi.
MolokoDeck: rather than keep signing up for more block.io addresses.
MolokoDeck: I just sent you a link to the unit tests.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck it's included in the signature block of the signed thing.
ben_vulpes: MolokoDeck: care to share ?
ben_vulpes: i have two whole beers to get through before i knock off for the long weekend i want to read more unit tests
ben_vulpes: (mircea_popescu: it's like "i find this amusing, even though nobody else probably does, or someone's trolling me, but it's not quite lolworthy")
ben_vulpes: !s ben_vulpes lol
RagnarDanneskjol: he likes to keep things quiet until they're ready for primetime
RagnarDanneskjol: something of a coder primadonna
MolokoDeck: I think that use of "now" requires a comma in the first sentence, since it's used as a colloquialism or interjection.
mircea_popescu: no ppl i r not insane tyvm stop pming me. i am aware that through the process as described signatures never get in fact verified and one could create a colision and sign for someone else. this is not a bug, it's a fucking feature. you ARE supposed to check YOURSELF the fucking sigs if you intend to rely on the signed documents. it's the only way to implement this correctly.
ben_vulpes: so signed by "x" does not imply that the signature is valid?
ben_vulpes: or that the signature is valid for hash "x" but that there may be collisions?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes gpg saying "signed by x" means nothing if you don't have x's pubkey to check.
mircea_popescu: a point so fucking readily lost on derpjournos you wouldn't begin to believe.
ben_vulpes: what is "x" in this case - hash or name + email fields?
mircea_popescu: nsa reads like a third of their "secure" comms on this basis.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the keyid above.
mircea_popescu: !up CHRIX
ben_vulpes: hash == keyid, right? where does gpg get the hash? from the signature itself?
ben_vulpes: okay, great
ben_vulpes: and gpg verifies that the keyid is valid for the sig?
mircea_popescu: so having a "signature apparently by 8A736F0E2FB7B452, could not verify" is one thing. "good signature from user MP 8A736F0E2FB7B452" is another thing.
ben_vulpes: in the latter case it compares the known pubkey to the sig
ben_vulpes: in the former all it does is...
ben_vulpes: can you even verify a signature without a public key?
assbot: RFC 4880 - OpenPGP Message Format
mircea_popescu: it compares the pubkey it has stored (and which you hopefully signed) to the shit in the hash of the signed document to establish it was not merely signed but actually signed by x.
mircea_popescu: !up MolokoDesk
MolokoDesk: that's why I'm getting the public key out of the WOT registry at: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xAF65AE980C825691
assbot: Public Key Server -- Get "0xaf65ae980c825691 "
mircea_popescu: this is not something that may or can be centralised.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck don't.
mircea_popescu: simply do this : separate the pastebin into individual signed bits, put each through gpg, take the apparent, unverified signer id, put it through grible to verify wot id, put it through gribble again to verify assbot linkage and you're done.
MolokoDesk: including the public keys in the document then signing it with those public keys would lock this in.
ben_vulpes: but in the case of an unknown key, pgp cannot determine if a signature is valid.
MolokoDesk: sure, that's what I wanted to do initially, get the public key from the signature.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes all it determines is that the document formally looks like one signed by that guy.
ben_vulpes: in that there is a signature and a keyid.
ben_vulpes: gotcha.
asciilifeform: MolokoDeck: please, absolutely must, take the time to understand how pgp actually works.
mircea_popescu: just like irl, the registrar of deeds does not verify your signature, merely looks that this shitwas signed
mircea_popescu: if a matter of repudiation arises, then that is dealt with by testing the sig.
MolokoDesk: ok. can GPG extract the public key from a cryptosignature without knowing which public key was used to make the cryptosignature?
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck it can extract a keyid from the signature block.
MolokoDesk: I didn't see any obvious way to do that.
MolokoDesk: I did, which is why I resorted to using wot's key registry.
MolokoDesk: oh it CAN extract it.
mircea_popescu: gimme a pastebin with something you signed please.
mircea_popescu: don't make it something stupid.
MolokoDesk: heh. I haven't tested this with documents signed by anyone else yet. sec.
MolokoDesk: ok. is the rationale here that if counterparties signed a document, they usually know who they are and since the contract is not enforceable by an external party, only by their cooperation, it doesn't matter who actually signed it if they all know they did.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk the signature of someone you don't know is worthless to you.
mircea_popescu: the verification of identity relies on acts by they who know who you are.
MolokoDesk: and it's provable that the contract hasn't been altered since signed and timelogged to the blockchain.
mircea_popescu: (and signed).
MolokoDesk: ok. if this is easier than what I've done so be it.
mircea_popescu: welcome to philosophically sound software design (tm). i hope to see a lot more of it in the future.
mircea_popescu: computational soundness is so 1970s.
decimation: mircea_popescu: thinking about your definitions of socialism v. fascism, it occurs to me that one quickly leads to another
mircea_popescu: which is supported by practice.
decimation: for example, "I demand that the the group give me a "gun free" life" becomes "give us your gun or go to the gulag" for the neighbor
MolokoDesk: one of the many defiitions of "government" is "that faction that has a monopoly on the use of force in a geographic area"
MolokoDesk: definitiions
mircea_popescu: all the politics of infantilism, where one makes demands of god, are suddenly exposed to reality, because in either of these degenerate systems of governmance (really, sides of same coin) one actualy may entertain the delusion of it.
mircea_popescu: hence musolini's famous "i demand god strike me down"
assbot: You are right, but if Bitcoin ever goes mainstream that kind of regulation that ... | Hacker News
decimation: MolokoDesk: I disagree, "monopoly on violence" is a refrain of modern apologists for the state
mircea_popescu: no state ever had or ever actually used any sort of "monopoly" on "violence"
mircea_popescu: first off, violence is a subjective psychogenic construct.
MolokoDesk: there's no such monopoly in practice, of course.
mircea_popescu: what one woman takes as violence another takes as courtship, a point the state is desperate to hide from the more unfortunate of youze.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk ok, so one final time, to check this off.
decimation: re: infantilism, charity << http://hopelesslysane.blogspot.com/2014/08/gratitude.html " I watched one brave/stupid older woman approach a very large woman with six kids hanging off her cart ($420+ of free stuff), and tell her "I know gratitude is beyond you, the least you could do is be polite." The oldest of the boys, about 12ish, menaced her, got in her face and said, "Fuck you, bitch! You owe us!", while momma smirked in approval.
assbot: The Lonely Libertarian: Gratitude
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why is the pgp corp named twice in the rfc ?
mircea_popescu: i never noticed b4
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did wonder this when printed my copy
asciilifeform: my guess was - missing parentheses
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know you need to fix the links.
MolokoDesk: assuming everything suggested regarding validating blind signatures is doable: someone points the bot at a cryptosigned document. The bot sniffs the signatures. if all the signatures are valid for that document, it issues a transaction encoding an SHA Hash of the document, waits for the transaction to appear on the block chain, then informs the irc channel of the transaction ID, block number and a pointer to a logged copy
MolokoDesk: of the document. If the signatures flunk it tells the channel that. try again.
decimation: asciilifeform: re: djvu vs pdf << but surely you ocr your digital library
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk what do you mean by "are valid" ?
asciilifeform: that thing is on my box as mirror, as i'm convinced that our phriends will soon begin to monkey with various documents in transit by url
MolokoDesk: GPG says the signatures are valid.
asciilifeform: (yeah i should probably sign the copy i actually read)
mircea_popescu: we're not getting too far here, lemme write it out as a formal spec.
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust midnightmagic
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask midnightmagic!~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user midnightmagic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=midnightmagic | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=midnightmagic | Rated since: Mon Mar 7 15:45:54 2011
MolokoDesk: I've basically worked up a construction kit for such a bot. I presume the set of functions I have working, or some subset of them, can be used to implement anything we've discussed here.
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol MolokoDesk http://pastebin.com/yrL9xW6z
assbot: $ gpg -v -v gpg: Go ahead and type your message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESS - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: of interest is the signature packet: algo 1, keyid 35D2E1A0457E6498 line
ben_vulpes: ;;rate midnightmagic -1
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg info --key 35D2E1A0457E6498
gribble: User 'RagnarDanneskjol', with keyid 35D2E1A0457E6498, fingerprint B4AF6458D7D8A2846F91807935D2E1A0457E6498, and bitcoin address 14ixghmHMcB4szGL3ue5WJ1qnjnWnQXiP6, registered on Thu Jun 5 04:07:21 2014, last authed on Fri Aug 29 21:22:04 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=RagnarDanneskjol . Currently authenticated from hostmask (1 more message)
ben_vulpes: ;;eauth ben_vulpes
gribble: Request successful for user ben_vulpes, hostmask ben_vulpes!~user@unaffiliated/benkay. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/2AFA1A9FD2D031DA
MolokoDesk: the only thing i haven't tested fully is spending via block.io's api (i have the encoded wallet address already), and getting PGP keys or key IDs/hashes from a signed document without knowing the public keys already.
mircea_popescu: checked. see ?
ben_vulpes: ;;everify if we're defending against collisions, extracting keyids doesn't help much.
gribble: (everify <otp>) -- Verify the latest encrypt-authentication request by providing your decrypted one-time password. If verified, you'll be authenticated for the duration of the bot's or your IRC session on channel (whichever is shorter).
ben_vulpes: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:3848beb16b68ec5ecee1475ddbe35c09c87cb06bfa9f07946cc58571
gribble: You are now authenticated for user ben_vulpes with key 2AFA1A9FD2D031DA
ben_vulpes: ;;rate midnightmagic -1
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user midnightmagic has been recorded.
midnightmagic: now what?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2993 @ 0.00085148 = 2.5485 BTC [-]
MolokoDesk: ok. working backwards from the document, get the pubic key IDs of the signatories then look them up with gribble.
mircea_popescu: one sec ima write it out plainly.
MolokoDesk: that's probably the most expedient way to get what you want.
decimation: ought these pubkeys be cached by the bot or grabbed from the keyserver per request ?
assbot: midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
MolokoDesk: so this is more a "bot, tell me what you know about this purported contract document, and save a copy, and if the contract isn't obviously bogus, notarize it to the blockchain with a hash"
ben_vulpes: there is no playing nice with bitcoin-core.
MolokoDesk: the unit tests grabs the keys from the public key registry every time and updates them in the keyring. that may not be what we're talking about doing now.
ben_vulpes: conformal is not misbehaving.
RagnarDanneskjol: i think the 'obviously bogus' part isn't really even a consideration
asciilifeform sees 'golang' as a mild misbehaviour, but won't try to convince people
ben_vulpes: you're the lone positive supporter of ninjaspamgun.
ben_vulpes: and what is this charitable thing?
midnightmagic: I'm not his supporter. I've seen his type before.
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust midnightmagic ninjashogun
ben_vulpes: orly gribs?
midnightmagic: The charitable thing is the project he's involved with re: children-oriented music education.
decimation: asciilifeform: should it be in LISP?
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user midnightmagic to user ninjashogun: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=midnightmagic&dest=ninjashogun | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ninjashogun | Rated since: Thu Jun 26 19:05:58 2014
asciilifeform: decimation: for all i care - fortran
asciilifeform: but google proprietary crud gives me the willies.
decimation: asciilifeform: agreed. why not python?
asciilifeform: which python.
asciilifeform: the fact that i can ask this question - is my answer
decimation: heh. 2
decimation: good point.
assbot: Deeds bot : 1. Bot idles in chan. Upon receipt of command including pastebin - Pastebin.com
ben_vulpes: pythugh
mircea_popescu: <decimation> ought these pubkeys be cached by the bot or grabbed from the keyserver per request ? << ?
MolokoDesk: bundling the documents every 5 minutes or so. and storing the hash of that. I was focusing too much on indivdual documents. The bundling feature was in my unit test notes.
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform sees 'golang' as a mild misbehaviour, but won't try to convince people << be fgucking thankful it's not ruby.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk 1 hr.
mircea_popescu: !up MolokoDesk
MolokoDesk: that can be variable
MolokoDesk: I see you've specified about 1 per hour.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather have it fixed.
mircea_popescu: of course server may be under load or w/e.
mircea_popescu: but the idea is, once an hour.
decimation: mircea_popescu: I guess the question is about how much you trust the keyserver to serve valid keys
MolokoDesk: It's simple enough to parmeterize it, i didn't mean changing it from IRC. sure.
asciilifeform generally believes that safety-critical code must be written in such a way that auditor can see a tight correspondence between every line and what machine physically does. note that this doesn't entail 'use C!' but can also mean different machine.
mircea_popescu: mp service philosophy : "make small, absolute promises"
decimation: asciilifeform: which is why Knuth wrote MIX
mircea_popescu: decimation at no point are keys examined in this process at all.
mircea_popescu: kinda what the whole discussion has been about
mircea_popescu: well, 80% of it anyway
asciilifeform: MIX << herr knuth wanted no 'holy war' re: why he picked architecture, nor was he interested in commercial endorsement of the existing hardware
asciilifeform: he was, after all, writing mathematics, not ad copy
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: The last time I was anything but civil to the ninjawhatever type, it turned into 2-year siege that culminated in .. like three (apparent) lawsuits because "ops blah blah exceeding authority blah". Why would I want to risk that a second time when it costs me virtually nothing to report on what I see?
mircea_popescu: i'd be so curious to fuck the imaginary daughter of knuth and buffett.
MolokoDesk: I see you prefer the block number to the transaction number.
midnightmagic: And conformal IS misbehaving. You go idle in their IRC channels.
mircea_popescu: sadly, gay marriage wasn't a thing then.
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: i did for quite some time.
MolokoDesk: there are multiple transactions in a block.
chetty: The U.S. Forest Service on Friday published a nearly 700-word article on how to safely roast marshmallows, all in preparation for Saturday, which is National Roasted Marshmallow Day.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk block-and-address.
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: what is this lawsuit?
mircea_popescu: comes to fewer bytes than tx id
mircea_popescu: also, tx id is not as reliable.
ben_vulpes: oh not actually ninjashogun
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: Completely baseless, time-wasting lawsuit because bitcoins hit the multi-hundreds of dollars and random $greek_person found a lawfirm willing to launch defamation nonsense.
MolokoDesk: ok. still have to do a bit of work to find the address in the block. knowing the trasnaction ID is more specific. I'm not arguing the case, this is find.
MolokoDesk: fine.
mircea_popescu: yeah it's an extra step.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic the one advantage of living in the us : afaik it's actually illegal to try and colect on euro defamation cases there.
mircea_popescu: might be just uk, i dun recall.
midnightmagic: Hope so.
MolokoDesk: so the burden of concatenating the document blob is done by some other agent and sent to pastebin.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk that's not really your problem. one person could send five documents in one pastebin. three other people two each
MolokoDesk: I had been intending to accumulate individual documents and bundle them periodically then announce the bundle/blog location
mircea_popescu: you've now got 11 things to string together and that's that.
mircea_popescu: !up guest8374
MolokoDesk: yeah, if this is finally it there's not much more to say, I'll just do it.
mircea_popescu: cool. address ?
MolokoDesk: you want to discuss what happens when it's done that's fine. I'm already good to start on this based on previous email relayed.
mircea_popescu: well once it's done it'll be on github and hosted somewhere.
MolokoDesk: right.
mircea_popescu: what you writing this in ?
MolokoDesk: there's an option to translate it to python later, but it'll be done sooner in php.
RagnarDanneskjol: for starters - then pyth pref
mircea_popescu: then you'd best include notes on how to get a stock php server into a stater where it can run your code.
mircea_popescu: i dun care.
MolokoDesk: php is decent for rapid prototyping.
ben_vulpes: oh jesus you guys
ben_vulpes: look at this reddit angst
assbot: tozee comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes for the most part, we're here to escape the teenage angst of the interwebs.
ben_vulpes: shits
MolokoDesk: I'm hosting a bot in ragnar's channel already.
ben_vulpes: anyways, midnightmagic there is no playing nice with "core" dev "team".
MolokoDesk: install notes with the php code.
RagnarDanneskjol: well its not MY channel, i just do all the talkin
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol i got #trilema like that, it consists of me and some other cool kids logging into gribble.
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: Do you mind if we go PM? I don't want to disturb channel.
RagnarDanneskjol: ooh I'm there
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk i dunno how you get gpg for php for instance.
mircea_popescu: but it sounds like just the sort of thing to become a nightmare.
MolokoDesk: i open a pipe for stdio, stdin and stderr.
MolokoDesk: a pipe to gpg works well, gpg outputs it's valdiation spew to stderr so most people have trouble using it from inside php.
mircea_popescu: php does pipes ?
mircea_popescu: o wow. what a band name.
mircea_popescu: ;;google php does pipes ? the band
gribble: Pipe Band: Music: Alma College: <http://www.alma.edu/academics/music/pipe-band.php>; Calendar - RSPBA - The Heart of the Pipe Band World: <http://www.rspba.org/html/calendar.php>; Pipe Band Magazine - RSPBA - The Heart of the Pipe Band World: <http://www.rspba.org/html/magazine.php>
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk and you actually have php irc bots somewhere ?!
mircea_popescu: i thought it was mostly py
MolokoDesk: invite Tao_Jones into this channel if you want to see the bot.
MolokoDesk: it'll need voice.
RagnarDanneskjol: he has a very cool bot that I talk to all the time
MolokoDesk: or you can drop into one of the channels it's already in.
mircea_popescu: um how did this shit go
RagnarDanneskjol: can we kick the bot after - it can get a bit floody at times
MolokoDesk: I'm using a lot of scraping to get data in some cases so some modules require periodic maintenance.
mircea_popescu: !up Tao_Jones
Tao_Jones: ---+------------------------------------+-----------------------513
Tao_Jones: | ++ + |BTC-e BTCUSD
Tao_Jones: | + +++++ ++++ ++ |ask 503
Tao_Jones: | ++ + + ++ + |bid 503.056
Tao_Jones: | ++ + + + + ++++ + +++|
Tao_Jones: |+ + + ++ ++++ ++ ++ |499.0100
Tao_Jones: | ++++ + + + |
kakobrekla: such noobs.
Tao_Jones: | + |22-Aug 11:12:09
Tao_Jones: | + + |30-Aug 02:10:23
Tao_Jones: | |33 seconds ago
Tao_Jones: ------------+---------------------------------------------------485.02
MolokoDesk: .wot ragnarrdanneskjol
Tao_Jones: no wot entry for: ragnarrdanneskjol
MolokoDesk: .wot ragnardanneskjol
Tao_Jones: id=11613 keyid=35D2E1A0457E6498 fingerprint=B4AF6458D7D8A2846F91807935D2E1A0457E6498 bitcoinaddress=14ixghmHMcB4szGL3ue5WJ1qnjnWnQXiP6 registered_at=2014-Jun-05 08:07:21 UTC nick=RagnarDanneskjol last_authed_at=2014-Aug-30 01:22:04 UTC is_authed=1
assbot: Public Key Server -- Get "0x35d2e1a0457e6498 "
MolokoDesk: duelling bots.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yeah but it had to be invited
mircea_popescu: that chart thing is fucking evil.
RagnarDanneskjol: i love it
mircea_popescu waves at DoctorBTC
DoctorBTC: does it do ascii video playback
decimation: is that supposed to be one of those 'ascii art' key hash things?
kakobrekla: anyone can invite since its not +i ?
DoctorBTC: hey mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol i don't think tao can stay unless it starts answering ,chart in pm only
ben_vulpes: wow that's quite the paste
MolokoDesk: I notice that cryptsy has so many altcoins now that trying to load the entire json spew for them all crashes the quote-reading module.
mircea_popescu: DoctorBTC i don't recall what i wanted to commend you about, but it was something.
DoctorBTC: saw your shoutout the other night
RagnarDanneskjol: right agreed
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: if you don't understand why this conversation belongs in #bitcoin-assets...
decimation: oh I see it's btc/dollar
MolokoDesk: .wolfram derivative 5*x^2-15x+12
Tao_Jones: d/dx(5 x^2-15 x+12) = 5 (2 x-3) = line = integral 5 (-3+2 x) dx = 5 (x^2-3 x)+constant
mircea_popescu: ahahha geekbot.
assbot: midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
decimation: does that query wolfram alpha?
Tao_Jones: bitstamp: BTCUSD last=507.94 high=514.98 low=501.25 vol=7354 Sat 30-Aug 02:13:31 UTC
Tao_Jones: BTC-e: BTCUSD last= buy= sell= high=hi low= vol= Thu Jan-01 00:00:00
Tao_Jones: bitstamp: BTCUSD bid=506.43 ask=507.95 high=514.98 low=501.25 vol=7353.59436112 time=Sat 30-Aug 02:13:31
Tao_Jones: vircurex: BTCUSD last=551.0 bid=551.0 ask=570.0 vol=0.22212299 time=Thu 01-Jan 00:00:00
Tao_Jones: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() coinbase.php LINE 96
Tao_Jones: No coinbase data for currency symbol: usd
Tao_Jones: bitfinex: BTCUSD last=503.96 bid=503.97 ask=504.72 time=Sat 30-Aug 02:13:43
mircea_popescu: yeah this is a pm bot srsly.
kakobrekla: if this shit continues imma +m
MolokoDesk: yeah, i'm scraping wolfram alpha, but if you pay them there's an API that is somewhat more flexible.
ben_vulpes: !down Tao_Jones
RagnarDanneskjol: molo - lets hold on Tao floods
ben_vulpes: cannot deal
MolokoDesk: ok. no more bot demo.
RagnarDanneskjol: sorry, like I said
decimation: lol scraping 'human' interface
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: ratings are not for "politeness"
MolokoDesk: it's morbidly verbose.
ben_vulpes: or "civility"
mircea_popescu: it's cool and all, but it has to pm to the commanding nick
MolokoDesk: kick the bot is my suggestion.
ben_vulpes: they are for trustworthiness and trustworthiness only.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you really can't say what process a third party uses to discern trustworthyness
mircea_popescu: s like water.
MolokoDesk: the bot also maintains a link log page, searchable.
ben_vulpes drums fingers angrily
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes think of it the only right way to thinl of it : any restriction on the process for others is tantamount to a restriction on the domain of the trng.
mircea_popescu: only nsa wants that.,
ben_vulpes: well i've got my WoT over here, mkay?
ben_vulpes: it's got these pluses
ben_vulpes: and these other minuses
ben_vulpes: this minus is for this set of things.
mircea_popescu: and your skull over there too, with this brain matter in a wet soup, also got its pluses and minuses.
mircea_popescu: which are the better ?
mircea_popescu: teh pluses or teh minuses ? sodium or -oxigen ?
ben_vulpes: all right all right!
MolokoDesk: I was considering that the other night, having a web of trust data structure as a graph, then different algorithms to assess inheritance or diffusion of trust, various wieghtings of different endorsements, graph topology analysis to detect mutual endorsement cartels, that sort of thing
ben_vulpes: shit's just mad suspicious.
ben_vulpes: throwing fud at Conformal for "politeness"
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk welcome to irl.
ben_vulpes: rating ninjashogun positively for "politeness"
mircea_popescu: so you don't trust the guy.
ben_vulpes: yeah well
ben_vulpes: like i said
ben_vulpes: this negrating is for this set of things.
mircea_popescu: a a yeah. missed that part.
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: It means the constant claim of credit for work bitcoin core does, the regular snipes and badmouthing of dev activity, the adoption, nearly wholesale, of bitcoin features and ideas without any attribution, and the denial that either someone with access to the conformal code created a fork after rejecting a conformal-mined block, or someone who has a custom bitcoind that doesn't crash on a huge long testnet fork even
midnightmagic: when everyone else's bitcoind did, is evidence that conformal is misbehaving or at least wilfully misinforming people.
ben_vulpes: access to the conformal code
midnightmagic: The rating had nothing to do with "civility."
ben_vulpes: lol what the ever locing fuck
ben_vulpes: do you mean this shit on github?
midnightmagic: Correct. The mining code, which was unavailable at the time the fork occurred.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic plenty of people have custom clients that don't get crushed by the hearn introduced nsa bug.
assbot: conformal/btcd GitHub
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: That's another issue.
mircea_popescu: what, you really thought we seriously let you people do the coding ?
midnightmagic: I'm not a dev. s/You/those/
mircea_popescu: s/you/those/
ben_vulpes: and yet with the vim
mircea_popescu: i mean even fucking karpeles had his own (bad) sauce ffs.
ben_vulpes: phpsauce
midnightmagic: Yeah that was b-s. He was a menace. Nobody who relies on me lost any money at MtGox.
mircea_popescu: this is true, you're one of the very few people who were around during pirate even, didn't go all nuts about it.
midnightmagic: Not a dime. I did get ruled by BFL though.
justusranvier: I just spent the last three days supporting a code sprint with four Monetas coders and Dave Collins while they work on btcwallet. Midnightmagic's story about btcd forking testnet is complete BS
assbot: midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
mircea_popescu: which is why i'm not negrating you, myself. but hey, everyone his own wot sauce.
mircea_popescu: justusranvier hey there reddit boy :D
mircea_popescu: we were having lulz reading that entire thing
ben_vulpes: hey justusranvier i see you collecting btctips off my work
mircea_popescu: lmao asshat
assbot: changetip comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
ben_vulpes: nah mostly joshin ;)
midnightmagic: justusranvier: It was one or the other. They deny it was them. From the perspective of an outsider, what's the truth? Who knows? But the fork started at a block CONFORMAL built, and went for hundreds of testnet blocks. It's not b-s. Conformal's logic is false about the origin.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you got the worthless traffic, can't he have the worthless tips ?
ben_vulpes: traffic is worthless. tips?
mircea_popescu: what did he even get, 20 doge ?
justusranvier: ben_vulpes: that was your article?
ben_vulpes: what's a thousandth of a coin worth in three decades?
mircea_popescu: "php does pipes ?" nubbins` !
ben_vulpes: ;;calc 0.001/21000000
mircea_popescu: make it happen! sign them! nude chicks with tubes on their head singing the ocarina!
nubbins` snorts, awakens
nubbins`: buh?!
ben_vulpes: justusranvier: yeah, i run ch
ben_vulpes: and van-ads.com
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: A user put a forced garbage collection at the wrong spot in Conformal's btcd, and Go segfaulted for no good reason. The code is not as high-quality as everyone thinks it is.
justusranvier: I've actually got to run for about 30-45 minutes, but when I get back I can explain what actually happened on testnet.
RagnarDanneskjol: !up MolokoDesk
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic people like the fact that it's not in shitlanguage and it's better written than the bitcoind. this is not a comment on th\e actual code quality.
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu - are you confident molo is clear on the reqs? MolokoDesk - are you clear on the reqs?
mircea_popescu: i would think so.
nubbins`: process pictures, for those of you waiting on posters: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=756955.40
assbot: [PRE-ORDER] "What is Bitcoin?" silkscreened posters [15/50 left]
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: user did idiot shit with code, code broke. surprise!
justusranvier: In any case, check the timestamps on the testnet blocks on the day when btcd announced they'd entered beta
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 02:01:35; mircea_popescu: cool. address ?
justusranvier: You'll see something interesting
ben_vulpes: this is precisely the fud.
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust justusranvier
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask justusranvier!~justus@unaffiliated/justusranvier. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user justusranvier: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=justusranvier | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=justusranvier | Rated since: Mon Feb 11 19:56:55 2013
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: That's total nonsense. It means the codebase is fragile, or the language itself is fragile.
mircea_popescu: golang isn't all that fragile, gwon.
ben_vulpes: i'll posit you the other scenario: bisect the codebase inserting GC calls until we find one innocuously positioned that can discredit the btcd team
mircea_popescu: nubbins` haha shiot sherlock, that satuff should bne on your blog.
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: leprechauns? Seriously?
ben_vulpes: un savory garnishes
mircea_popescu: seems eulora is actually getting some models made woot.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu pretty proud of it so far
ben_vulpes: why a gc call? why there? what the ever loving fuck is the story?
nubbins`: the split fountain on the sky is particularly nice
MolokoDesk: ok. if we're in agreement about what to do and when to do it I can send you a bitcoin address and get to work.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk just paste it here.
mircea_popescu: what the hell has life in the police state done to you ppls!
MolokoDesk: I may want to talk about the deliveries and such in /msg
MolokoDesk: but it's not an issue to get started for me.
MolokoDesk: ok. finding the address.
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: looking good frere!
nubbins`: tyvm!
nubbins`: you're going to lel when you see the next layer
nubbins`: nonono
ben_vulpes: errywhere
ben_vulpes: plz or cunts
mircea_popescu: COME PLAY WTH USS
kakobrekla: just hairy balls this time.
nubbins`: reminds me of a thread on gigposters.com, the place i learned my craft -- question was "what's your fave show poster"
nubbins`: all these world-class poster artists saying "space dicks" "yep, space dicks"
kakobrekla: you know what I DONT LIKE IT ALREADY!
nubbins`: i'm thinking wtf? search the archives
kakobrekla: sorry, LOVE.
ben_vulpes: aight mes ami
nubbins`: finally come across this Melvins poster w/ mcdonald's characters on the moon with huge 10' tall cocks growing out of the surface
ben_vulpes: babe calls dinner is ready
mircea_popescu: as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z0WmWUT2rM : Plutesc purtat de tate-naripate cu aripi din vata de zahar pe spate ma poatra-n ceruri roz cu nori pufosi pe care fac bule dinozauri somnorosi. In zbor trec buci cu lungi siraguri de margele si-un cartof rustic rastignit pe acadele. Mai trece si un peste de otel si-un urs din muci cu degetel dar iata, hiii, acolo-n zare marea vulva cum rasare.
assbot: RObotzi.S03.Ep13.Sugstanta - YouTube
ben_vulpes: can't be arsed. here's to the sybils!
MolokoDesk: address for project related to contract bot: 1TaoJrnsQzfyBto2PmwPAssce9DGzsHg3
mircea_popescu: "i float carried on tits with wings of cotton candy on their backs, they carry me through pink skies and fluffy clouds upon which bubble sleepy dinosaurs. flying by go butts with lengthy bead strings, and a rustic potato crucified on lolips " etc
kakobrekla: and dont do stdin/out when you have a gpg wrapper
MolokoDesk: noted.
mircea_popescu: what is it ?
kakobrekla: what is it what
mircea_popescu: the wrapper
assbot: PHP: GnuPG - Manual
MolokoDesk: heh. Was going to have to look into that.
MolokoDesk: there's probably an includable object in php that does PGP operations that doesn't use the command line. some PGP or GPG library wrapper.
kakobrekla: didnt i just link to it?
MolokoDesk: generally anything shell() or exec() -like is a bad practice.
MolokoDesk: yeah, I guess you did.
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
kakobrekla: <kakobrekla> didnt i just link to it? < twice, first time was a /notice
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 506.2, Best ask: 507.83, Bid-ask spread: 1.63000, Last trade: 506.58, 24 hour volume: 7309.58172579, 24 hour low: 501.25, 24 hour high: 514.98, 24 hour vwap: 508.106868918
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 488 @ 0.00115757 = 0.5649 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk done.
MolokoDesk: do you want progress reports or just let you know when it's demonstratable first cut for comments feedback and midcourse corrections if any?
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot MolokoDesk
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user MolokoDesk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=MolokoDesk | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=MolokoDesk | Rated since: never
MolokoDesk: yeah yeah, I'm not in wot.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate MolokoDesk 1 dev.
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
mircea_popescu: get in the wot, you can get rated, then you can just voice yourself and add whatever relevant whenever relevant.
mircea_popescu: why aren';t you in the wot anyway.
MolokoDesk: it's just another thing to maintain.
MolokoDesk: but I see why it's the thing to do now, since I'm going to be in here a bit.
mircea_popescu: no it's not. your future ability to obtain work here, as well as your ability to benefit from the positive exposure you worked for today strictly hinges on you having a wot acct.
MolokoDesk: I do understand the utility of it, obviously.
RagnarDanneskjol: i been tellin him this forever
MolokoDesk: I'm in. I'll get that set up in a while.
MolokoDesk: it's a bit of work to "not lose a private key". I jest somewhat.
MolokoDesk: eternal vigiliance is the price etc etc...
mircea_popescu: it's also a bit of work not to lose your penis.
diametric: there really isn't anything to maintain..
MolokoDesk: so far I'm not worried about that.
mircea_popescu: the former is a better use of your time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: penis << dulap!
MolokoDesk: agreed. we'll see how it scales in the future.
mircea_popescu: <MolokoDesk> so far I'm not worried about that. << freud would beg to differ.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol you liked that didja.
asciilifeform: mega-educational.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk your penis ? sorry to be the harbringer of sad news, but... it doesn't scale in the future, it shrinks in the future.
MolokoDesk: freudian entropy.
mircea_popescu: cunts enlarge with use. cocks just sorta diminish
MolokoDesk: these asymmetries.
DoctorBTC: the future is like the cold pacific ocean...
MolokoDesk: I gotta get back to the pacific. Surf's up.
mircea_popescu: i wonder what the divorce rate would look like if it worked the other way areound. doing it five times a week = +1 inch a year.
asciilifeform: plus wear-hardening.
mircea_popescu: "i've been married for 28 years your honor! ENOUGH!"
MolokoDesk: sometimes there's something to be said for equlibrium.
MolokoDesk: pacific... seasteads.. molecular biology research enclaves...
asciilifeform: !s king neptune
decimation: asciilifeform: what is your favored djvu reading device? kindle dx?
mircea_popescu: so i see coinroll add on bitbet, click, decide to try it out.
asciilifeform: decimation: 'nexus-10'
assbot: View image: coinroll
asciilifeform: decimation: 'kindle dx' with russian os patch will read djvu, but only really makes sense for very good, high-contrast b&w scans.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc .5 ** 4
gribble: 0.0625
mircea_popescu: CLEARLY!!1
asciilifeform: decimation: 'librerator'
decimation: for mac desktop I've found that "Devonthink" works well to search/index pdfs
decimation: that's the name of the warez?
asciilifeform doesn't read scans on normal computer
asciilifeform: decimation: of the patch
decimation: reading scans on the computer sucks, but it's useful for searching references
mircea_popescu: but srlsy jurov, it looks neat and is quite visually appealing.
mircea_popescu: nice design job.
asciilifeform: decimation: most of these aren't meaningfully searchable anyway
decimation: yeah, more for textbooks, not prose
decimation: herr walker has a review on a bio of Maxwell: http://www.fourmilab.ch/fourmilog/archives/2014-08/001530.html
assbot: Reading List: The Man Who Changed Everything (Fourmilog: None Dare Call It Reason)
asciilifeform: read it.
asciilifeform: also recommend: 'the maxwellians' (b. j. hunt)
decimation: one wonders with the ease of finding scans/native text of a great many published textbooks - how long until the college bookstore becomes a thing of the past?
asciilifeform: decimation: this almost happened when cheap 'xerox' copiers appeared
asciilifeform: decimation: the textbook racket responded by changing books (mainly exercises) around as often as they could
midnightmagic: It's already a good chunk of the way there. Many courses at local universities have entirely virtual course materials and reading lists.
decimation: for undergrad subjects at any rate, you would be a pretty poor professor if you couldn't write your own text
mircea_popescu: and they are very poor professors.
kanzure: unfortunately it is not yet profitable to buy textbooks and resell directly to pulp recyclers :(
mircea_popescu: the average call girl makes a lot better money than the average uni prof.
mircea_popescu: and arguably, for much more socialy useful work, too.
decimation: considering scholars 500 years ago would transcribe the professor as he lectured, and then take turns reading the only copy of the course text, kids today have it great
kakobrekla: <asciilifeform> decimation: this almost happened when cheap 'xerox' copiers appeared < when i was in high school you could legally copy 70% of the book .... at once.
asciilifeform: many american 'public' unis publish complete lists of who's paid what - where i live, this is required by law
asciilifeform: and yes - it's true
chetty: <mircea_popescu> the average call girl makes a lot better money than the average uni prof.// but much shorter career
kanzure: the textbook industry spends about $3B/year on marketing- but have you ever seen an ad for a textbook?
mircea_popescu: chetty not so, not really.
kanzure: it's all spent on elaborate vacations for professors
asciilifeform: most (scientific) profs also moonlight as industrial consultants though
mircea_popescu: most uni profs fail to get their tenure in their late 30s
decimation: asciilifeform: most 'public' schools in the us require the same, always a source of amusement for the young ones
mircea_popescu: most call girls can push it past 40ish if they want to
mircea_popescu: the call girl however can start at 12.
asciilifeform: obligatory:
asciilifeform: !s greenspun
mircea_popescu: the uni prof can't start at 22.
kakobrekla: the problem with this search is - now there will be 18 results
mircea_popescu: not necessarily a problem
decimation: that's like grepping ps to find... your grep of ps
mircea_popescu: it does convey the information that the thing was searched later, and you can exclude bots if you wish.
kakobrekla: you can?
mircea_popescu: but for the average noob, history | grep history yields a lot of... "history | grep history"
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla im pretty sure it had a command
kakobrekla: do tell
mircea_popescu: mthreat how did the exclusion clauses work in search agai ?
decimation: "Then the whole RoseArt versus Crayola battle. The kids at the Salvation Army fair got RoseArt, almost half the cost of Crayola, and that's what the vouchers covered. But the RoseArt supplies were hardly touched and the Crayola was wiped out. At the registers, the fights started over, "My kids don't want none of that RoseArt shit, are you saying they ain't good enough for the good stuff? Only white kids get the good stuff?""
mircea_popescu: "yes. shut up and cook me some beans"
assbot: The Lonely Libertarian: Gratitude
mircea_popescu: libertarian is lonely through his own fault. shoulda made a wot.
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu and its not the bots one wants to filter - its lines starting with '!s' and assbots replies 'x results for ..'
assbot: midmagic comments on Btcd Beta Announcement
kakobrekla: anyway i go.
decimation: hehe yeah the other link at the bottom is good too: http://hopelesslysane.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-other-entitlement-class.html "We have millions of these privileged entitlement folks. They are the ones populating the Ivy League schools preparing for their rise to power over the nation. They have never worked a real job, never produced anything, never been allowed to fall on their faces, never been allowed to fail and deal with the
assbot: The Lonely Libertarian: The other entitlement class
decimation: fallout. They have no concept of reality, and sadly, most of us know them personally. "
mircea_popescu: She wasn't talking to me, but I could hear her saying, "It wasn't supposed to be like this, they're so ugly, it's just so wrong." << woman met the orcs, hasn't even been raped yet.
mircea_popescu: decimation i actually don't know any personally.
asciilifeform: like tolkien's orcs, these were built artificially and with great care.
assbot: Block 222996 - TEST Bitcoin Block Explorer
decimation: " The oldest of the boys, about 12ish, menaced her, got in her face and said, "Fuck you, bitch! You owe us!", while momma smirked in approval. "
mircea_popescu: "Not these chirrin, my older chirrin! They needs these for they lunches!"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform an orc's an orc.
decimation: you gotta admit the pure chutzpah of trying to buy beer with 'school supply' donations
justusranvier: A few hours after dhill tweeted btcd's first ever mined testnet block, somebody showed up with enough hashing power to find 100 blocks/hour and started conducting history rewriting attacks
mircea_popescu: (only artificial orcs exist. mp knows, for mp has lived all over the world. actual poor people are more pleasant than actual civilised people)
kanzure: why would someone bother doing that on testnet?
kanzure: seems like they would have an easier time using regtest
justusranvier: kanzure: Well, do don't know for sure.
mircea_popescu: kanzure why not ? trolling is trolling.
justusranvier: All we know is they had the capability to do so, and they just so happened to reorg out of existance btcd's first ever mined block, and just so happened to start doing it after they publicly announced having done so.
kanzure: was it only btcd's block?
justusranvier: The history rewriting attacks were 100+ blocks long
justusranvier: More than one of them
kanzure: that doesn't answer my question, actually
justusranvier: We don't know exactly at what height their block was originally mined
kanzure: i see
justusranvier: Because they didn't save it, and the blockexplorer site doesn't save orphan chains
kanzure: too bad
mircea_popescu: the entire thing is really a meaningless exercise. who the fuck cares what happens on testnet.
mircea_popescu: it's not a blockchain of record.
mircea_popescu: it's much like natural experimentation : if unreproducible,
justusranvier: But they know their block wasn't bad because they submitted it to a local, isolated bitcoind before they broadcast it to the network
mircea_popescu: discarded.
justusranvier: It's just pathetic to watch the Bitcoin Core team and/or their fanboys compete on FUD when they can't compete on code quality
assbot: 10 Orks (subtitle eng) - YouTube
mircea_popescu: justusranvier lol they can't compete on fud, this is a long established point.
justusranvier: They are trying, though
mircea_popescu: i dun see it.
mircea_popescu: gotta let people have fun, what.
justusranvier: So some companies, including mining pools, are interested in running btcd. For some reason, said companies sometimes ask the Bitcoin Core team for advice before doing so. FUD ensues.
mircea_popescu: you're really making too much of this.
justusranvier: I'm not sure what you mean.
mircea_popescu: can you see why reorging some new guy's block out of this world is funny ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00085394 = 10.6743 BTC [+] {2}
justusranvier: Oh that? Of course I can see how it's funny. The pathetic part is how people lie about what happened.
mircea_popescu: so people have issues with humor, what. i dun care, you dun care, foggedaboutit
decimation: asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: !up altoz
altoz: hey mircea
mircea_popescu: hey unknown person from the interwebs
asciilifeform: 'conformal' smells suspiciously like a 'good-cop' half of a 'good-cop / bad-cop' act.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform whay, just because old dod contractor ?
mircea_popescu: using a sexy language and being generally sane ?
decimation: asciilifeform: why not focus on producing a readable RFC first is the question..
mircea_popescu: you are ALSO making too much of it :D
asciilifeform: plus continuing with 'the code is the spec' derpatron.
mircea_popescu: that's a forced mistake.
mircea_popescu: what are they going to do, write out a spec then have the bitcoind horde pretend "it fails" ?
mircea_popescu: forcing specification through mutually disjunct implementations is the best we get.
asciilifeform: i must confess that the conformal/power-ranger war does not concern me personally, because 'happy is the man who has one leg, one sock doesn't tear, one boot isn't needed' - and i intend to solve the pertinent problem with own hands before it begins to concern me personally.
mircea_popescu: which is why i took exception to the "why cant we all get along" derpage from midnightmagic yest.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a sound approach.
mircea_popescu: as i was saying earlier : so has erryone.
justusranvier: Speaking of specs, davec found parts of bitcoind script validation that involved behavior undefined by the C++ spec, meaning it's theoritically possible to compile it with a non-gcc compiler and get two bitcoinds that will fork on a carefully-crafted transactions.
mircea_popescu: justusranvier "code is the spec" means "the compiler we use is the spec" too.
decimation: because the code wasn't machine code or MIX...
mircea_popescu: mix dun werk.
asciilifeform: not only google, but apple, and microshit before them, turned away from traditional 'gcc' suite and proclaimed elaborate crud in its place. i could only ever assume - for ease of 'thompsoning' people.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, fucking machine code dun werk.
decimation: indeed, one must then blindly trust the logic designer and chip maker
asciilifeform: the wider the conceptual gap between what programmer sees, and what machine physically does - the more room for turdage - whether of the constructed or accidental kind.
decimation: asciilifeform: I thought apple was trying to get on board with LLVM
mircea_popescu: this can be a decent graduate exercise. "write the longest asm program that does the same thing on all platforms. you may pick what it does yourself."
mircea_popescu: exactly. a succession of "sleep"
asciilifeform: nah, a string of zero length.
mircea_popescu: (the point being not to win, but like in any koan, to contemplate what the win means)
mircea_popescu: ~longest~
asciilifeform: longest.
asciilifeform assumed 'platforms' include all known cpu archs
mircea_popescu: i was (in retrospect, mistakenly) taking an "observable" approach to "same thing"
decimation: supposedly gcc was made intentionally obscure so that stallman can use it as a crowbar
asciilifeform: for your puzzle, famous example - http://code.google.com/p/corkami << grep for 'polyglot'
assbot: corkami - Reverse engineering & visual documentations - Google Project Hosting
asciilifeform: decimation: crowbar ?
decimation: people just copy & paste the whole thing with GPL to all platforms
asciilifeform: versus what ?
decimation: "The existence of LLVM is a terrible setback for our community precisely because it is not copylefted and can be used as the basis for nonfree compilers — so that all contribution to LLVM directly helps proprietary software as much as it helps us.'"
asciilifeform: it was a terrible setback, though not for the reasons herr stallman gives
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 03:30:44; asciilifeform: the wider the conceptual gap between what programmer sees, and what machine physically does - the more room for turdage - whether of the constructed or accidental kind.
decimation: asciilifeform: because better compiler = more people thinking they don't have to understand what the machine is doing?
asciilifeform: decimation: when 'better compiler' sits on 'same old cpu' - yes
decimation: Sounds legit. kinda like the existence of google translate is given as a reason not to learn another language
mircea_popescu: uh no it's not
mircea_popescu: it's a good entrypoint
asciilifeform: it's such a bad entry point that it probably encourages folks to study languages.
decimation: yeah, I agree. for me, it's motivating when I see how shitty its output looks, and it makes me want to translate more
asciilifeform: showcases how little the 'dictionary approach' gives.
decimation: now with idioms!
asciilifeform: back to subject - imho btc client is 'safety critical code' - but none of the existing implementations rise to even the most basic standard for such.
decimation: asciilifeform: do you mean to separate "btc client" from "btc node"?
asciilifeform: that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do.
asciilifeform is in the process of meeting this standard for a different application, and it is very labour-intensive. but necessary.
asciilifeform: just as with the discovery of ionizing radiation, people suffer needlessly because they 'intuitively' believe that invisible thing can't kill them
asciilifeform: somehow everyone understands that parachute, airplane, etc. have to be designed in certain ways - but mention programs? and 'you're a nut'
decimation: or inversely they believe that it's everywhere and out to get them.
asciilifeform: entropy, at least, -is- always out to get you.
asciilifeform: pick an arbitrary bit in memory image of 'bitcoind.'
asciilifeform: contest / student exercise - find the most interesting one.
asciilifeform: your choice of cpu.
decimation: next step: find out how to flip that bit in said machine running with crap-o-soft os
asciilifeform: not even speaking of enemy action here
asciilifeform: just the now-ubiquitous non-error-correcting memory.
decimation: probably the majority of btc nodes run non-ecc ram
asciilifeform: example:
asciilifeform: !s bitsquatting
asciilifeform: ;;google bitsquatting
gribble: Bitsquatting: DNS Hijacking without exploitation - dinaburg.org: <http://dinaburg.org/bitsquatting.html>; Bitsquatting - [media.blackhat.com] - Audio and Video from Black Hat: <https://media.blackhat.com/bh-us-11/Dinaburg/BH_US_11_Dinaburg_Bitsquatting_WP.pdf>; Examining the Bitsquatting Attack Surface - Cisco Blog: <http://blogs.cisco.com/wp-content/uploads/Schultz- (1 more message)
decimation: the fun version of this would be to squat on a domain predicted to be used by a popular bot
asciilifeform might have confessed before - is running 7+ yr. old hardware, because non-intel ECC hardware has become virtually unobtainable
decimation has an HP amd-based 'microserver' with ecc ram
asciilifeform: decimation: popular bot << no need for 'bitsquat' here. most of the clever sort of botnet use domains generated weekly, based on time of day. but, clever folks also use rsa signatures for payload auth.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00085345 = 7.3823 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: wouldn't there be an "id trail" from the registrar to the bot herder?
asciilifeform: decimation: at least a few registrars take btc and don't ask too many questions
decimation: even with payload crypto it would be interesting to watch the incoming packets
asciilifeform: decimation: you can watch all you like - run a 'tor' exit.
decimation does not want to become a zek
asciilifeform: decimation: if you have a strict isp, do it in one of those 'nature preserves' where it is officially encouraged (e.g. 'amazon ec2')
asciilifeform: but must understand, this is likely a popular 'sport' and anything you see - will have been seen by plenty of others
decimation: perhaps I could change the bitcoin addresses to something friendly :) http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-01-2014#435478
assbot: Logged on 03-01-2014 03:15:35; asciilifeform: there are tor exits silently pumping ascii through 'sed' or the like, slipping 'friendly' btc addrs in place of originals.
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