Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-04-09 | 2015-04-11 →
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91340 @ 0.00025387 = 23.1885 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell cazalla halp
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: So if Cardinals beat the reda tomorrow I will make the bet Saturday
assbot: Pepper-spraying drones will be used on Indian protesters | Ars Technica ... ( )
BingoBoingo: !up IHB
BingoBoingo: Hello IHB
BingoBoingo: IHB: How goes your newsing?
BingoBoingo concedes looks better for javascript users
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127300 @ 0.00024417 = 31.0828 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99940 @ 0.00025888 = 25.8725 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146510 @ 0.00026566 = 38.9218 BTC [+] {2}
IHB: it was DDos attacked
IHB: last night
IHB: that's why i came on here
IHB: to tell you guys
IHB: BTC GAW fucking scm
IHB: scam
IHB: did qntra call it out?
IHB: sorry in india now
IHB: my internet is shoddy sometimes
BingoBoingo: IHB: Yeah, qntra didn't have anything on them in particular because BTCgaw followed the exact same for as a scam previously called out.
BingoBoingo: No worries about your connectivity
BingoBoingo: Qntra was born in a multi gbp/s DDoS
IHB: Brief due diligence
IHB: There is no Privacy Policy
IHB: There is no Terms of Services Statement
IHB: There is no Team Page
IHB: Laila Risan is listed as the domain contact, She is located in Norway.
IHB: Tony Gaw is quoted as being the founder, no LinkedIn profile or any other presence on the internet.
IHB: There are a lot of red flags, not limited to the “supposed” $1.6 million investment
BingoBoingo: IHB: Would you like to diversify your newsing equity? Qntra is always hungry for posts... If you can offer a BTCgaw post for the qntra you can get a share per word
BingoBoingo: Yeah Tony Gaw likely never was a person
IHB: dude. i would totally get invovled
IHB: but i have never done a key siging
IHB: and my pgp has zero points on WoT
BingoBoingo: IHB: I will just need a fingerprint for your key and a nick to associate it to.
BingoBoingo: IHB: You do good work. I see you have included qntra in your aggregator. I am grateful.
IHB: so how does this work? IHB is shutting down anyway and i am concentrating on an iPhone app and API we have been building.
BingoBoingo: IHB: Is it shutting down entirely or are you keeping the domain>
IHB: yeah, that aggregator is feedly. will send you the .opml file. i think i have a lot of the good sites to follow. would love it if you see any missing
BingoBoingo: IHB: So what exactly is the catalyst for shutting down? Did DDoS get expensive?
IHB: keeping the domain. not making any rash decsions now. we have some good backlinks. may redirect to new domain
BingoBoingo: Or something else?
IHB: no. IHB costs were minimal. i have been bootstrappping since end of 2013. in the behind been working on an API and now we are finally in the last phase of development. my efforts need to be there
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 200 @ 0.0089406 = 1.7881 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo: IHB: So if you want to submit email in plaintext to myself and cazalla your piece. Make sure you include a GPG fingerprint and have the GPG key registered to a nick in the assbot wot
BingoBoingo: I will offer the standard disclaimer that s.qntr shares are as volatile as fuck and we have no revenue yet
BingoBoingo: !up IHB
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 132350 @ 0.00026741 = 35.3917 BTC [+]
[]bot: Bet created: "Yandex drop under Google before 2016"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 123990 @ 0.00026791 = 33.2182 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51710 @ 0.00027089 = 14.0077 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130919 @ 0.00026919 = 35.2421 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !gettrust ihb
assbot: ihb is not registered in WoT.
mircea_popescu: get inb the wot eh.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 222750 @ 0.00027875 = 62.0916 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167900 @ 0.00027313 = 45.8585 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 153200 @ 0.00028002 = 42.8991 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67650 @ 0.00027707 = 18.7438 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.00027752 = 3.7049 BTC [+]
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" Odds: 8(Y):92(N) by coin, 9(Y):91(N) by weight. Total bet: 26.79172615 BTC. Current weight: 85,528.
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 145.16184834 BTC. Current weight: 65,659.
mircea_popescu: dude if that 700 bet comes out yes...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158700 @ 0.00027707 = 43.971 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell BingoBoingo qntra sub for your consideration :
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 209300 @ 0.00027255 = 57.0447 BTC [-] {3}
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla same but for your key :
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: haha this gpg shit is hot.
pete_dushenski: it's trendy shit for sure
pete_dushenski: soon there'll be smartphone apps and errything
pete_dushenski: and smartwatch apps that use your heartbeat to sign
cazalla: trendy lol, i gotta lug your shit to the other room to decrypt it! nothing trendy about that
Chillum: smartwatches are nice but I prefer my mechanical Omega
pete_dushenski: cazalla: wat do you mean ? walking is the trendiest shit going
pete_dushenski: it's all healthy and progressive and carbon neutral
Chillum: I walk, but only ironically
pete_dushenski: so... backwards down the sidewalk ?
pete_dushenski does this on occasion
Chillum: backwards up the sidewalk
Chillum: need sleep, must leave computer
pete_dushenski: speaking of up the sidewalk, looks like our little town here is getting its very own funicular in the next couple years
pete_dushenski: Chillum: bon soir, man
assbot: Fun with Funiculars: Sliding into Edmonton’s Past | Edmonton Journal ... ( )
pete_dushenski: and the old one moved draught horses up and down the river valley
pete_dushenski: fuck me that's cool
mircea_popescu: funicular funiculaaah
mircea_popescu: largo'al factotum de la citta de la citta deeee laaaa ciiiiiittaa!
pete_dushenski: i feel a seinfeld joke coming on
assbot: Luciano Pavarotti - Funiculì Funiculà - YouTube ... ( )
pete_dushenski: hah or that!
pete_dushenski: so today was ram upgrade day at the dushenski residence !
pete_dushenski: my numero uno is now rocking 32 gb of ecc ram
pete_dushenski: which is easily the most i've ever had in a desktop, so i'm quite looking forward to seeing how it performs
pete_dushenski: i was pleasantly surprised at how inexpensive memory is for these older machine.
pete_dushenski: about 1/4 of the newer ones
assbot: Battle for the right to play old multiplayer games take shape. | ... ( )
pete_dushenski: cazalla: nice!
pete_dushenski: << can't quite see the sense in a $500 laptop differentiated from its $100 donor by two pieces of *free* software
assbot: Libreboot X200 | The Gluglug ... ( )
pete_dushenski: but hey, freedom isn't free, right ?
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski " Januseque " ?
pete_dushenski: two-faced roman god ?
mircea_popescu: how about "Janus-esque god of Plasticated Profits" ?
mircea_popescu: you need that s in any case.
pete_dushenski: i have no objection to that improvement
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: speaking of tweaks, you have "gullbile" in your last article in footnote v
mircea_popescu: gull ahahaha
cazalla: janus in goldeneye too from memory
pete_dushenski: speaking of which, some buddies and i are convening next weekend to play goldeneye for n64
pete_dushenski: and mario kart
cazalla: ya know ya never could, never will fps on a console regardless of how nostalgic goldeneye may seem
cazalla: mario kart on the other hand..
pete_dushenski: 007 was the only fps i ever even tried to learn
pete_dushenski: the newer ones are too... fast
cazalla: pc master race for fps
pete_dushenski: that an f1 game ?
cazalla: no i mean pc is the master race with quake, n64 fps is the nigger with goldeneye
cazalla: or that halo shit with 640x320 res, aim assist, auto aim etc etc
pete_dushenski: i honestly don't give a shit about any of them
pete_dushenski: but it'll be a fun time with the boys
pete_dushenski: allow us to show a little of that competitive spirit we otherwise aim only at jobs and girls
pete_dushenski: and speaking of janus, for any car buffs reading the logs, there was a very limited production car built by german firm zundapp in the mid-1950's by this name
pete_dushenski: i saw it at a motormuseum in berlin 2-3 years ago, just trying to dig up the picture now
mircea_popescu: !up wyrdmantis
cazalla: but you can't be competitive on a console
cazalla: anyway, don't pay too close attention, stuck into 3rd beer already
pete_dushenski: had mp not written that little article today, i might've posted these on imgur lol
pete_dushenski: cazalla: tis all good, i see what you mean and i don't disagree
pete_dushenski: my pc gaming was just limited to starcraft and age of empires
pete_dushenski: why be the foot soldier when you can be the general in teh sky ?
mircea_popescu: !up The_Shrander
The_Shrander: thanks MP :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104900 @ 0.00027752 = 29.1118 BTC [+]
assbot: All TREZOR users should update their firmware for protection against a physical attack - Extracting the Private Key from a TREZOR with a $70 Oscilloscope : Bitcoin ... ( )
pete_dushenski: heh. i dun think anyone here really trusted trezors to begin with
pete_dushenski: though i think it was kako who bought a couple of them ? mebbe some others too.
pete_dushenski: they're sort of in the 'yubikey' camp of 'blackbox toy crypto that plugs into usb'
mircea_popescu: The_Shrander no, but it is kinda lulzy. in any case trezor had mixed reviews at best here.
mircea_popescu: !s trezor
assbot: 135 results for 'trezor' :
The_Shrander: very very lulz
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96162 @ 0.00027781 = 26.7148 BTC [+] {2}
wyrdmantis: mmm, i've made a mess with nicknames
mircea_popescu: !gettrust wyrdmantis
assbot: Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user wyrdmantis: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | |
mircea_popescu: should be able to self up anyway
assbot: Milestones - ethereum/go-ethereum · GitHub ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44122 @ 0.0002814 = 12.4159 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50900 @ 0.00028123 = 14.3146 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106450 @ 0.00028123 = 29.9369 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 462000 @ 0.00028424 = 131.3189 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96400 @ 0.00028547 = 27.5193 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172050 @ 0.00028439 = 48.9293 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129298 @ 0.00027633 = 35.7289 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 350 @ 0.00441308 = 1.5446 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 259500 @ 0.00027932 = 72.4835 BTC [+] {2}
mats: it moves
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 220450 @ 0.00027529 = 60.6877 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: This Is What Happened When Maine Forced Welfare Recipients To Work For Their Benefits  ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107950 @ 0.00028249 = 30.4948 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94706 @ 0.00028731 = 27.21 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up wyrdmantis
BingoBoingo: !gettrust assbot wyrdmantis
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user wyrdmantis: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | |
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134311 @ 0.00027088 = 36.3822 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 253050 @ 0.00028784 = 72.8379 BTC [+] {4}
mike_c: I hate this: "I don't know that my pull request is the best way to handle it, but I thought it might poke the bear enough to move the conversation along" translation - my code is shit, but maybe it will annoy someone else enough that they will do it correctly.
mike_c: this is from the ethereum github repo. and have no fear buddy, they took your code.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164900 @ 0.00028662 = 47.2636 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 186350 @ 0.00028952 = 53.9521 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: << “W.U.T. is an American university in name only,” Erickson wrote, adding that the top administrators there “do not know what a real American university education consists of, and have no interest in finding out." He questioned whether any of them went to a "real American university in the first place."
assbot: Reports of troubles at Webster U.’s branch campus in Thailand | ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38100 @ 0.00028662 = 10.9202 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30550 @ 0.00028662 = 8.7562 BTC [-]
assbot: LLVM Project Blog: Simple guided fuzzing for libraries using LLVM's new libFuzzer ... ( )
mircea_popescu: heh watching that s.mpoe is like daytime drama i swear.
mats: << this and the other link are the best windows heap exploitation papers ive read so far
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35761 @ 0.00028322 = 10.1282 BTC [-]
assbot: Evolution of chess: Game lengths and outcomes | Randal S. Olson ... ( )
mircea_popescu: mats how much have you slept past week ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 85 @ 0.01455797 = 1.2374 BTC [+] {5}
mats: probs 3-4 hours a night
mircea_popescu: why is that ?
mats: work has been hectic
mircea_popescu: you know it's a major sign of early onset schizophrenia among other unsavory things ?
mircea_popescu: go get some sleep.
mats: maybe ill take a nap during lunch
mircea_popescu: how about a nice 12 hour undisturbed window ?
mats: ill give it a go. a couple family members have schizophrenia... no idea if its heritable but i should definitely be more careful
mike_c: <+mircea_popescu> you know it's a major sign of early onset schizophrenia among other unsavory things ? << unsavory things like parenthood..
mircea_popescu: it's not heritable but a weak indicator. and one of the prevailing theories is that it's kindled, ie, you could be fine but then you had to go stress it to all shit. 99% get ptsd, 1% actually gets schizo.
mircea_popescu: just a theory. nobody knows shit about their own head, let alone other peoples' anyway.
mircea_popescu: mike_c no see, it's not a sign of that, it's an effect of that. but yes :p
PeterL: mircea_popescu: you were looking for me?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's not heritable but a weak indicator. and one of the prevailing theories is that it's kindled, ie, you could be fine but then you had to go stress it to all shit. 99% get ptsd, 1% actually gets schizo. << Kindling is the dominant theory among the credible people.
mircea_popescu: PeterL well scoopbot's dead ?
PeterL: I just restarted it, should show up any second now...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo im not terribru persuaded myself. but srsly, "get some sleep" is probably the best medical advice ever invented.
mircea_popescu: above even "have a glass of water would you."
mircea_popescu: PeterL kk.
BingoBoingo: Get some sleep, drink some water, is all solid advice
mike_c: and get a less stressful job.
mircea_popescu: up to about 30something, a job no matter how stressful is no big deal as long as you actually sleep and eat.
mircea_popescu: and even skipping a day or two. but when it becomes week-chronic...
BingoBoingo: Cigarettes are my mental health plan.
mircea_popescu: this is the boon of late adolescence/early adulthood : that you can do any stressful job and you'll be fine. what you can't really do is slef-manage tho. which is kind of why i'm indignant over all the wastage sv/the us generally is doing to these eager kids making them "ceos" of "start-ups".
mircea_popescu: worst hr wastage conceivable.
mircea_popescu: but hey, not my country.
PeterL: I just started a new job this week, I am not sure how much time I will be able to spend here
mircea_popescu: PeterL have a preferred wakeup mechanism ?
PeterL: to wake me up?
mircea_popescu: say if scoopbot dies again or w/e.
mircea_popescu: some hot camho shows up wanting your babies.
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
PeterL: she can have them, they are obnoxious and climb on me all the time
mircea_popescu: she can't have them till you stick it in her yo.
PeterL: oh, you mean unborn babies
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72450 @ 0.0002765 = 20.0324 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: Lieutenant Gary Mandich, who was one of the many attendees and alleged participants in the lewd activities, told media, "Everyone needs to seriously lighten up. What do they expect? This is Vegas baby! They call this symposium 'Tail' hook for a reason!"
mircea_popescu: His statement led to a wave of public outcry which sparked numerous protests and demonstrations at the gates of naval bases across the U.S.
mircea_popescu: these people are nuts.
mircea_popescu: someone seriously had the time to crash gate bases "across the us" because some people hooked up at the hookup convention in vegas ?
mircea_popescu: us needs more jobs stat.
PeterL: maybe they are all retired people living off investment income?
mircea_popescu: protesting soldiers fucking ?
BingoBoingo: The US cattle control system has become too advanced to for any new jobs to exist that make sense.
mircea_popescu: what, from like florida ?
BingoBoingo: Well, between walmart and reddit, what can USian people do to create any value without letting the cows loose?
mircea_popescu: you know, free ranging is a thing.
mircea_popescu: "After his return to the USS Midway, in port in Seattle for Seafair, then Tailhook president Captain Rick Ludwig pulled all air wing commanding officers, staff, and flag staff officers and debriefed them on initial reports of misbehavior and incidents of fisticuffs in the hallways and on the patio by the pool."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44056 @ 0.0002765 = 12.1815 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ok, nm, it doesn't seem like what i had in mind after all.
PeterL: so I started this week at Perrigo, the company stock jumped up 25%, therefore investors must like me, right?
mircea_popescu: PeterL was your name in a pr ?
PeterL: ummm, no, I guess not
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Once you set the cows free they stop going to Walmart
mircea_popescu: notheywon't. and fuck walmart anyway, let it come up with its own business.
mircea_popescu: PeterL :p
PeterL: darn correlation / causation
mircea_popescu: had you said yes i'd have said "put it in your cv"
mircea_popescu: PeterL do they pay you in fourleaf clovers ?
PeterL: what?
mircea_popescu: isn't it an irish outfit ?
BingoBoingo: PeterL: You work for leprechauns
PeterL: no, but a perk is access to the company store to get cheap drugs
mircea_popescu: so when's the rave ?
PeterL: you rave with ibuprofen?
mircea_popescu: i actually knew a 15yo set that did.
PeterL: well, the company is "Irish", the CEO is here in michigan
BingoBoingo: PeterL: So he's a muslim leprechaun?
PeterL: muslims are all on the other side of the state, western MI is about as white as they come
mircea_popescu: women have no race either, that's a male thing.
PeterL: why don't women have race?
mircea_popescu: cuz men will fuck anything ?
PeterL: that makes no sense to me
mircea_popescu: it makes no sense to me either!
mircea_popescu: so check it out, Barbara Spyridon Pope, some woman briefly in a desk job at pentagon, refused Duvall McClellan Williams, Jr's whitewashing report on the tailhook thing. because this is a thing now, derpy bureaucrats can tell read admirals no. hey, "civil control of military".
mircea_popescu: after which her career abruptly ended and the guy resigned.
mircea_popescu: seems an extremely illuminating case to trace gender wars in us politics, this.
mircea_popescu: "Upon leaving government service, Pope joined Sunrise Senior Living as Director of Special Needs Assisted Living " << i wonder if they make her change adult diapers for the rest of her life now because of that incident.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108389 @ 0.00028322 = 30.6979 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69455 @ 0.00028426 = 19.7433 BTC [+] {2}
Adlai: fluffypony: your turd is even fatter than satoshi's
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48186 @ 0.00027226 = 13.1191 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: << ah that they seriously intend to "release"...
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 12:49:45; mike_c: this is from the ethereum github repo. and have no fear buddy, they took your code.
mod6: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00023945 / 0.00027016 / 0.00029109 (7922185 shares, 2,140.28 BTC), 7D: 0.00023945 / 0.00027154 / 0.00031364 (18190603 shares, 4,939.59 BTC), 30D: 0.0001443 / 0.00027992 / 0.00040484 (113178735 shares, 31,681.21 BTC)
mod6: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 351544 | Current Difficulty: 4.944639068824144E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 352799 | Next Difficulty In: 1255 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 17 hours, 10 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48128497535.2 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.6653
mod6: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 233.49, Best ask: 233.5, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 233.5, 24 hour volume: 31840.36691804, 24 hour low: 231.0, 24 hour high: 245.44, 24 hour vwap: None
mod6: ya
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 200 @ 0.01468924 = 2.9378 BTC [+] {6}
kakobrekla: nuts > bitcoin
mod6: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu et al: << cool! bringing these with you?
BingoBoingo: !up ascii_field
ben_vulpes: <mike_c> yeah? you claiming to be gandhi now :) << mike_c gets it
ascii_field: now who wants to tell me why it took so long to do to 'trezor' what i suggested doing to it immediately upon learning of the circuit ?
ascii_field: 'for the love of god, montrezor!' (TM)
mike_c: um. obvious retort is obvious?
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 01:04:50; asciilifeform: because it declares war on microshit and unix, 'a pox on both their houses'
mike_c: (as i patiently wait for cardano)
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: it carries own stdlib
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: and even has own threading mechanism, scheduler.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100300 @ 0.00028657 = 28.743 BTC [+]
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: as a result, it is actually much easier to - usably - plant ada on 'bare metal' (sans os) than nearly anything else
mircea_popescu: ascii_field because idiots are empowered now.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: wai wat
mircea_popescu: they don't have to do anything! they're dragons!
mircea_popescu: i guess re-reading this is ambiguous. did you mean "do to trezor" as in, fixing ? or as in, exploiting ?
ascii_field: the latter
mircea_popescu: my bad then
ascii_field: (it is braindamaged in several fundamental ways, and it is foolish to speak of 'fixing')
mike_c: oh, me too. I retract my retort.
mircea_popescu: (of course, but then again...)
assbot: Sooo... FetLife is butthurt. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: this is the boon of late adolescence/early adulthood : that you can do any stressful job and you'll be fine. what you can't really do is slef-manage tho. which is kind of why i'm indignant over all the wastage sv/the us generally is doing to these eager kids making them "ceos" of "start-ups". << hence, >>
assbot: Logged on 09-04-2015 20:13:46; ascii_field: can't speak for mats, but basic idea is that once you leave your meatwot, you are a fungible machine. this is a situation that, as mats put it, 'resets you to entry level' - and overwhelmingly favours the very young
ben_vulpes: apropos only of teakettles, trinque told me about some POS hardware returning a 418 TEAPOT in production
ascii_field: point of shit ?
ascii_field: piece of sale ?
ben_vulpes: piece of shit point of sale
mircea_popescu: ascii_field expound on the linkage ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: that it is not unreasonable to say 'i will not compete with 16 y.o. if i have any choice in the matter'
mircea_popescu: certainly.
ascii_field: microscope does not want to be a hammer
ascii_field: and isn't much good as one
mircea_popescu: depends, really. i readily compete with 16yo boys over 16yo girls.
mircea_popescu: doesnt go over that badly, either.
mircea_popescu: << apparently the frenchies have their own search engine, and stuff.
assbot: Blog Qwant | Notre décryptage de la loi sur le renseignement ... ( )
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the boys are biologically equipped only to be cannon fodder, really
mircea_popescu: hence, depends.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32850 @ 0.00028657 = 9.4138 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: !s breathe vacuum
assbot: 4 results for 'breathe vacuum' :
mircea_popescu: omg wai so cryptic!
wyrdmantis: lol, Wence Cesares called “Patient Zero” of Bitcoin in Silicon Valley
assbot: Why Billionaire Investor Reid Hoffman Is Betting Big on Bitcoin ... ( )
mircea_popescu: is this for a new thing or still zappo ?
ascii_field: which, iirc, doesn't even work in usa...
mircea_popescu: ascii_field guy is very talented at basically anna nicole smith's job.
ascii_field: pr0n ?
mircea_popescu: more like entertaining lonely rich gentlemen.
mircea_popescu: i thought reid hoffman is the original model for that forever alone figurine no ?
ascii_field: he oughta do something more stimulating with the money. like have a golden toilet cast.
mircea_popescu: a) it's not really as much money as you imagine and b) i forget.
ascii_field: i mean, wtf. i actually tried to put some chumpatronium in the hopper and all i got was 'eggog'
mircea_popescu: wait wut ?
mircea_popescu: can you be specific ?
mircea_popescu: oh, tried to use the site ?
ascii_field: (a while ago)
ben_vulpes: what. is. that.
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: elektronika mk-61
ascii_field: legendary programmable pocket calculator
ben_vulpes: but the dick and spear?
ascii_field: like i knew.
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: icon from forum,
assbot: Программирование - Решил на досуге заебенить ... ( )
ben_vulpes: every photo in b-a is like this. "here's this sort of illustrative image relevant to our conversation." "what lead to that photo being taken?" "like i could fucking know..."
mircea_popescu: <title>Attention Required! | CloudFlare</title>
mircea_popescu: herp. what is it ?
mircea_popescu: <h2 data-translate="why_captcha_headline">Why do I have to complete a CAPTCHA?</h2>
mircea_popescu: <p data-translate="why_captcha_detail">Completing the CAPTCHA proves you are a human and gives you temporary access to the web property.</p>
mircea_popescu: motherfucker corpspeak. they ask the questions, they fail to fucking answer.
mircea_popescu: that's not "why", motherfuckers.
mircea_popescu: that's "what do i get for". why is something entirely the fuck else, mentally stunted bunch of business school rejects.
mircea_popescu: subplot : why the fuck is the dude wearing pink panties.
ascii_field: all photos taken by enthusiasts
ascii_field: original design was lost in the collapse of su
ascii_field: and had to be laboriously restored, by folks who loved the machine to death
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93200 @ 0.00028657 = 26.7083 BTC [+]
ascii_field: the purpose of this was to create a bug-compatible emulator
ascii_field: (many beloved proggies, passed around on grid paper, used the cpu bugs)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: yeah, sure. 'zactly.
ben_vulpes: amusingly, both of these can be pretty readily reasoned about
ben_vulpes: much more so than the calculator with dick and spear
ben_vulpes: people shooting pr0n, girl likes attention
ben_vulpes: panties are a great touch tho lol
mircea_popescu: i thought the dickspear idea is pretty pervasive.
ascii_field: left hand: 'most popular prog. langs.' bottom left: 'but how about mk-61?'
ascii_field: the font face is roughly cyrillic's equivalent of german 'blackletter'
mircea_popescu: (yes, yes, pr0n. but why the derpy teens in polo shirts!)
ben_vulpes: mis en scene?
ben_vulpes: *mise-en-scéne, i mean to say
mircea_popescu: one of those derpy "dating seminars" gone awry
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: << translation exercise
assbot: Программирование - Решил на досуге заебенить ... ( )
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i can't get that site.
ascii_field: but it could almost have been written by mircea_popescu ...
ascii_field: l0l wut
mircea_popescu: cloudfail.
mircea_popescu: see above.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: << here ya go
mircea_popescu: heh it couldn't be written by mp. i never signed anon in my lyf.
ascii_field: other than it.
mircea_popescu: lol subhuman larvae!
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wretched parodies!
mircea_popescu: ah no. i don't despise prostitutes.
mircea_popescu: moreover, i hold actual whores in higher regard than most other professions. certainly i give social precedence to a whore over a us college professor.
mircea_popescu: i guess hating on hos kinda comes with russian culture huh.
mircea_popescu: быдлокодинга < ? bydlo-kodinga!
mircea_popescu: ajhahaha
mircea_popescu: perfect word this. "dude, stop with the bydlokodinga!" "did someone bydlokodinga libnss ?"
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: and btw ascii_field, is быдло ukr or ru ?
mircea_popescu: also polish bydlo, same usage.
ascii_field: originally, roughly 'cattle' but archaicism and means something like what 'redneck' in usa
mircea_popescu: it means more like what redneck should mean.
mircea_popescu: nowadays redneck simply means "someone who doesn't think transexuals have a special gender and gay marriage is a thing"
mircea_popescu: << this is like, THE picture of fucking societal decay. chick's having a lulzfit at guy who's too absorbed in gadget to do anything.
Chillum: I think that law should not consider "gender" at all, leave it as a social construct
mircea_popescu: Chillum why would society consider law at all ?
mircea_popescu: i mean your proposal sounds sensible, but only if one (mistakenly) imagines law can exist sorta out of itself. it can't.
mircea_popescu: once law ceases to be an instrument of convenient social oppression, it ceases to matter.
mircea_popescu: yes, it shouldn't inconveniently oppress. but that does NOT mean it should not oppress at all. tho i see how that mistake is easy to make.
Chillum: What I mean is that just as the religion of two people is irrelevant for marriage in the eyes of the law, so should be gender
mircea_popescu: i know what you mean .do you know what i mean ?
Chillum: without some form of oppression humans will descend into violent anarchy
Chillum: not really
mircea_popescu: see, law is in and of itself meaningless and powerless. if it reflects deeply held societal beliefs, it is powerful. which is why it was powerful in the old christian days, pre 1000 ad.
mircea_popescu: it lost that pillar of support. but it reconstructed some sort of balance around the remainder.
mircea_popescu: then it lost gender. it's teetering, and i don't think it's any longer sustainable at all.
mircea_popescu: why would anyone obey the law ? it says nothing about their beliefs, it fails to make the world meaningful.
mircea_popescu: could as well obey this law as any other, and in the end none at all.
mircea_popescu: the entire "we're obeying the law because the law produces foodstamps" and "keeps the terrorists at bay" doesn't really look too functional at any rate.
mircea_popescu: certainly wasn't the last time this was tried.
ascii_field: --- translation. mega-paste warning ----
ascii_field: 3, 2, 1...
ascii_field: 'But what, specifically, remains for the poor students and wankers, who took up the notion that there is such a profession - "programmer" ? Yes, there is, but not in the sense that these larval untermenschen conceive of it. Some see in this role something just short of the demiurge, crafting the future; others see a good way to set up their life, secure their future, a stable income and career growth.
ascii_field: But the pathetic parody of a human does not grasp that it is not enough to have a cock's crest bachelor degree or to spoodge out a few pages of code at an olympiad, to become a programmer. In the course of this revelation, the lame abortus, reject of evolution, slowly begins to comprehend that the world is very much not as he imagined it.
ascii_field: The apprehension of one's inadequacy begins, of the futility of one's existence, the principal impossibility of fulfilling one's idiotic desires. But there is always a choice. If the first variant prevails, he will press on with self-improvement, the study of genuinely worthy technologies, on which there can be foundations for the creation of something better. And he will understand that no one needs him as a smart-arse.
ascii_field: Or what remains - the other variant - to dive into the common flow of the sewers, and take hold of a passing piece of shit and feed upon it for the rest of one's pathetic life. Some are satisfied with this, just as many are satisfied with the profession of the prostitute, the cleaner of latrines, a waiter in MacDuck, etc. But a more or less normal person begins to experience breakage in his value system, worldview;
ascii_field: thoughts concerning the futility of his existence begin to intrude upon him, of futility; old complexes sharpen, and flower into a full-blown psychological crisis...
ascii_field: Yes, once upon a time, the "programmer" was a serious engineering profession with a shade of elite status. In those years, genuine mastery of certain technologies was demanded from him, and this was not attainable by all. Whereas today any Downs-syntrome-autist can call himself a programmer, because he has mastered the basics of redneck-coding and will work for food. As for genuine professionals - like in many other
ascii_field: related fields - they are no longer in demand today. Therefore there is not much choice: sign for your supper by the latrine [ru prison parlance - transl. note] or silently rot in full consciousness of your total bankruptcy and futility of existence.'
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you know you really should blog/link these things. srsly.
ascii_field: it's just a fscking translation
ascii_field: and i blogged about more or less same thing for 7+ yrs, to no effect
mircea_popescu: dude, let's burn the library of alexandria because nobody ever read it. i bet that's how it actually went down.
ascii_field: (in case this was not clear, the ru original was not mine, and was found by accident)
mircea_popescu: whjat the fuck difference does it make to the book how many read it?
mircea_popescu: just put it there so it can be found conveniently and forget about it.
mircea_popescu: there's no "higher purpose" or anything
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: don't get me wrong, i shall write again. and yes - for the archaeologists, as before. but presently cut among 1) dayjob 2) s.nsa 3) sleep,eat,...,write
mircea_popescu: my point is softer than that. specifically, it is that simply having put this there would not have tarnished your blog, but been smart an' convenient.
mircea_popescu: it's an article just fine.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 250300 @ 0.00028501 = 71.338 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: feel free to recycle it into your next mega-article if you feel like
mircea_popescu: "here's some shit i stole off a guy i know".
mircea_popescu: what am i, a sf writer ?
ascii_field: which he stole from some anon...
mircea_popescu: is this true btw ? i am sensing this trendwhere people go "real professionals are not in demand"
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, this seems untrue ?
ascii_field: i cited that thing merely because it is a compact statement of essentials of naggumism.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it is not untrue, unfortunately
ascii_field: for the reason which i tried to explain last night
ascii_field: about meat-wots
mircea_popescu: i am unconvinced. there must be more to it.
ascii_field: don't take my word for it.
ascii_field: !s deskilling
assbot: 4 results for 'deskilling' :
ascii_field: (not sure if the phenomenon is presently discussed under than name, or discussed at all for that matter. but it does have a name.)
mircea_popescu: i suppose to the degree this phenomenon exists, it is driven by the feminization of the internet (the sort of retarded behaviour illustrated by that comment i quoted earlier).
ascii_field: nope. it is driven by perfectly legit economics
mircea_popescu: if this is true, which i still doubt but perhaps just as an artefact of my limied circle, then the pill is simply destruction of the legal protections.
ascii_field: same as the 'wriggleys gum' and plastification of industry
mircea_popescu: if a company can either secure its network or lose its ass... then the professional will be in demand.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not if 'arse covering' works as well as 'secure'
mircea_popescu: if women have it, and "do what i mean" and "i should be safe whether im naked drunk or not", then yes, semiskilled shanonizers in microsoft garb everywhere.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field yes, because evolutionary pressure.
mircea_popescu: makes no difference for a bankrupt corp why it's bankrupt. still out of sight.
ascii_field: evolutionary pressure knows how to lead to two places
ascii_field: adaptation
mircea_popescu: in any case, this would present excellent cause to disallow acces of women trying to appear *as women* in this field. either they learn how to be men or learn to live without participating in technology.
ascii_field: or extinction.
mircea_popescu: i must say im still broadly unconvinced by the entire thing.
mircea_popescu: chetty ^ give the foregoing a read would you.
ascii_field: let's narrow down -which- particular thing mircea_popescu is unconvinced by, before i answer
mircea_popescu: ascii_field that there is no serious demand for highly skilled computerizers
ascii_field: there -is- demand, but it is -extremely- meat-wot-gated
mircea_popescu: so it should be.
ascii_field: because of the sheer pressure of orcs at the gate and the paucity of the positions
mircea_popescu: this simply reflects stuff discussed all over trilema. why would it not be.
mircea_popescu: no, not because of that at all.
mike_c: i don't understand. maybe you are saying there is no demand for exactly what you want to do? there is plenty of demand for smart programmers.
ascii_field: but so narrowly tight to the extent that the practitioners have lost all negotiating leverage.
mircea_popescu: mike_c i thought so too.
mike_c: you could walk into google tomorrow and command an absurd salary
mike_c: or a dozen other companies. very limited wot necessary.
ascii_field: mike_c: entirely not the profession i was speaking of.
mircea_popescu: mike_c it's very dissonant for me because he seems to come from this place where exactly the opposite of what i see is true. backwards world of alf.
ascii_field: as different as 'wife' and 'prostitute'
ascii_field: even more so, arguably.
mircea_popescu: can't quite pin down wtf this is.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field specifically ?
mike_c: so be clear about the position you are looking for that doesn't exist?
ascii_field: mike_c: roughly, 'problem solver'
mike_c: what's an example of a problem you would be asked to solve in this position.
ascii_field: i can say quite securely that no one at 'google' is employed in this capacity.
ascii_field: mike_c: 'we have xxxxx and have not the slightest idea what to do about it'
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: doesn't want to "work". he wants to "think".
mircea_popescu: "problem solver" is either a) cocky bs major from minessotta (we had examples ridiculed in here) or else b) collin powell.
mike_c: that's not an example :) what's a xxxxx.
mircea_popescu: which did you mean ? and neither of these are programmers.
ascii_field: or, more related to my current gig, 'we have yyyyyy and wish to know why it was made, by whom, what it does, it fell out of flying saucer'
mike_c: ok, so this is.. a circuit board?
ascii_field: mike_c: occasionally
mircea_popescu: ascii_field "here's this binary, find out what it does" ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144250 @ 0.00028731 = 41.4445 BTC [+] {3}
ascii_field: ^ most of it, in my particular case
mircea_popescu: ascii_field so this would be in demand either a) by the nsa or else b) independent work a la s.nsa
mircea_popescu: why is this counterintuitive ?
mike_c: seems also flavors of this job would be present at security firms.
mircea_popescu: except he doesn't want tyo compete with the 16yos those guys hire.
mircea_popescu: and i understand WHY they hire the way they do, with contests etc.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it will make more sense if i reveal that
mircea_popescu: whole security profession is done on a shoestring
ascii_field: the fact that most of what i do is not brute labour
mircea_popescu: recall trhe $100 top prize.
mike_c: not whole, just most. like any other field.
ascii_field: but invention of tools to speed up the process
mircea_popescu: ascii_field your problem is that you're premarket in that.
ascii_field: and enable particular flavours of reverse engineering which are otherwise impossible
mircea_popescu: like invention of tools to make aeroplanes safer in 1915
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: i'm afraid that i cannot say more without breaking oath to the personal friends for whom i carry out this work.
mircea_popescu: did he just bitch about meatbased wots FROM INSIDE ?
mike_c: it sounds like you've got the job you want. so what's the problem? you need more jobs?
mircea_popescu: alf needs a beating.
ascii_field: mike_c: say you have a boat
ascii_field: nice, aye ?
ascii_field: but what if it goes down
mike_c: money pit, but ok.
mike_c: see, i told you it was a money pit.
mircea_popescu: you considered it, eh mikey!
ascii_field: and if mast breaks off in the storm
ascii_field: it is a small boat.
mircea_popescu: for your peace of mind : the last time a mast broke off in a storm the year was 1715.
mike_c: idk.. you are looking for a very specialized type of job. I don't think you'll get far complaining there aren't a lot of them.
ascii_field: mike_c: what i did before, was entirely else - high-performance computing for chemical modelling
mircea_popescu: ascii_field btw, how about you get them personal friends in the wot and start a something.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: diametric is in wot
mircea_popescu: the sluts are not gonna fuck themselves.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the other fella lost his key
mike_c: yeah, build your next boat.
ascii_field: i think
ascii_field: but they're the kind of folks with offspring, mortgages, etc.
mircea_popescu: incidentally : if your boat breask "by itself" nudge nudge grin grin, you can go back to biochem.
mircea_popescu: you have any fucking idea how desperate those guys are ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: actually
mircea_popescu: sheeet, they even took bugpowder in.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: why do you suppose i'm not there
ascii_field: the field died.
mircea_popescu: no it didn't. it's back.
ascii_field: most of the pharma folks closed down r&d entirely.
ascii_field: it is 'obama-back' not back.
mircea_popescu: it's back, baby.
mike_c: but the safety net is still there. regardless of that, you could get a high paying job in software. just not one you want.
mike_c: so work on your own goddamn boat with the confidence you won't end up on the street.
mircea_popescu: tbh i suspect he uses this as a motivator,
ascii_field: high-paying job that kills the mind is a suicide.
mike_c: right, which is why you should build your own boat...
mircea_popescu: hey, lemme tell you something.
mircea_popescu: list of things slavegirls think aforehand "kill the mind" ? 559876985975 items.
mircea_popescu: list of things actually killing the mind ? 0, so far.
mircea_popescu: i haven't found any.
mike_c: i think you are unqualified in that field. the wrong job is pretty mind numbing, especially if you don't see the path away from it.
mircea_popescu: intelligent person can not stay unqualified.
ascii_field: i spent ~3 yrs, fresh from school, actually honest-programming-for-money
mircea_popescu: ever. no matter the field.
ascii_field: will never get the iq points back.
ascii_field: it is palpable.
mircea_popescu: no it's not.
mike_c: s/unqualified/inexperienced/
ben_vulpes: that's just aging, asci
mircea_popescu: and as nubbins would point out, not doing enough whippets.
mircea_popescu: or doing too many. i forget which.
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: how much did you age from 22-25 ?
ben_vulpes: about 3 years
ben_vulpes: did applied thermofluids during that time. could feel the slowdown hit.
mircea_popescu: im i the only guy too absorbed in self-love to notice this phenomenon ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu sleeps ad libitum
mircea_popescu: i was fucking dumb at 22, and less dumb but still fucking dumb at 25.
ascii_field: i - age two weeks every time my alarm clock rings.
mircea_popescu: not by "normal" terms, but retrospectively it grates.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: is there a difference between how smart/dumb one is and how quickly or slowly one learns?
mircea_popescu: depends ben_vulpes. the problem chiefly is that as the mental models get much better, learning speed collapses.
ben_vulpes: "this notion is strongly similar to these other notions i'm already familiar with, so i'll integrate it more quickly"?
mircea_popescu: of course this could be backed in my case by a solid wall of "i don't have to do anything i don' want to do"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes much deeper than that. like "i readily see THE REAL REASON this is so, so i can skip eighteen paragraphs worth of confused "explicatory" nonsense
mircea_popescu: that a lesser brain would have fucked with for eight weeks"
mircea_popescu: and yes, probably the 22 me would have gotten through the fucking with phase in seven weeks and it'd take me 9 now if i tried it.
mircea_popescu: but im not going to because i see wtf that is freom a mile away, including the gender of the author and her parenting errors in her own kids.
mircea_popescu: anyway. i wouldn't want to go back to being 20 anymore than i'd want to re-take kindergarten.
ascii_field: 'knowing what parts to skip' is -the- wunderwaffen.
ascii_field: but this is a rather separate component of effective intelligence
mircea_popescu: for sure.
ascii_field: like the tires of a car
ascii_field: the spiffiest tires will not turn 'trabant' into 'mazerati'
ascii_field: though opposite - sure.
mircea_popescu: that's a good approach to explain it : imagine you can disqualify bad teachers earlier. well... that's definitely saving time.
ascii_field: 'the eagle never lost so much as when studied from the crow' or what was it
mircea_popescu: exactly.
mircea_popescu: another approach to it is to point out that human brains leak like a fucking sieve.
mircea_popescu: as you tighen things up, you crash less often
mircea_popescu: if you crash less often, you need less computer time to do the same work.
mircea_popescu: so : better mental models, less domain lossage - > mega shrinkage of time and effort required.
mircea_popescu: perhaps the cpu also gets tired, but the rate of loss due to that has not yet been apparent, at least to me.
ascii_field: 'notation is worth 80 iq point' (TM)
ascii_field: and to this well-known maxim i will add mine, 'giving a fuck about the problem is worth 100 iq points'
mircea_popescu: hence the earlier "solid wall"
mircea_popescu: see, and this is a FINE example of what i mean by "leak like a sieve". your observation was in fact accounted for in my model. because i hadn't leaked it. because it doesn't leak there.
ascii_field: the real reason i will not compete with the 16 y.o. is not stamina per se, but that i cannot trick my brain into actually caring
mircea_popescu: ascii_field that gets extremely easier once you fuck his gf. you notice the subtle difference between the same object as he perceives it, and as it is.
ascii_field: this is why i often say that in buenos aires i would have to learn shoemaking or the like
mircea_popescu: then it suddenly becomes fascinating, like a puzzle of sorts.
ascii_field: some sort of work that does not demand too much mental presence
mircea_popescu: get a bike sharpen knives.
ascii_field: aha that was what i was thinking of
ascii_field: as in that photo.
ascii_field: i'm not yet sold on the fact of that boy's existence being more fun than american jail.
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
mircea_popescu: wha happened to your key yo
gabriel_laddel: thank you
gabriel_laddel: it isn't handy atm
gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: it is palpable. << Yep. Let's say, for example that you learn perl. Nothing you learn has any use outside of... writing perl. If you learn javascript, java, C++, scala etc. idem. The web and these related "technologies" are going away. All of the effort poured into learning them is wasted.
mircea_popescu: but he never learned any of them in THAT sense.
mircea_popescu: there's a guy who learns and his learning is wasted effort. there's a different guy who learns for sport.
gabriel_laddel: Urbit is probably a good example for what I think stas is discussing. You can get paid very well so long as you are very active doing nothing.
mircea_popescu: da fuck do i care latin's dead ?
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: there is also such a thing as the mental equivalent of stretched arse-rape sphincter
mircea_popescu: ascii_field doubt it
mircea_popescu: for one thing, contrary to common belief, well used holes get better, not worse. woman is not made out of soap.
mircea_popescu: for the other thing, the brain truely is plastic.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: learning latin is very different from learning $random-african-grunt-lang
ascii_field: what i am speaking of is the effect i observed where folks learn to like fundamentally uninteresting concepts.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel how do you know this ?
ascii_field: because they get off on the flourishes.
ascii_field: e.g., c++.
mircea_popescu: but these might have been broken before
gabriel_laddel: because some of the $random-african-gruntlangs don't have any means to describe the future or past.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you're on very slippery ice sheet there. i'll save you the egg and point out that you can't form an apriori representation of why X model is no good.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_field
ascii_field is a believer in sapir-whorf to the extent that he very much observed the braindamage caused by imprinting on certain programming concepts, in a great many people.
mircea_popescu: "imprinting" is pre-speech learning.
mircea_popescu: one really should take control of that stuff.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: nonsene. We know any programming language that doesn't allow the operator to manipulate its own ast programmatically is going to waste the operator's time.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: ascii is discussing knowns.
ascii_field: 'imprinting' not in the strict zoological sense, but in that of having encountered a concept during 'formative years' when a fella is figuring out wtf 'a computer is'
gabriel_laddel: ^ I never would have thought of presentation systems unless I happened upon ascii_field's blog.
gabriel_laddel: HTML/CSS/SWING/AWT ruined me.
ascii_field: i've been fighting a largely losing battle for many years, attempting to convince folks to imagine - in their spare time - that a computer is not necessarily von neumann and the 50 yrs of shit soup
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: actually, re-reading your last message - isn't that really an argument against abstraction period?
gabriel_laddel: which...
ascii_field: i will confess that it took me retardedly long time to understand that my hypothetical rebellion against the soup cannot be funded or organized for some very fundamental reasons
gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: nonsense.
ascii_field: (short version - it is too much like the proverbial 'mars voyage' - counter-economic leap.)
gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: Sometime in the next 48 hours I'm going to drop some information in here regarding the #b-a distro, and when finished with that move on to finding funding again.
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: the type of funding necessary cannot be 'found'
ascii_field: it isn't hiding somewhere in the jungle
gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: we've already discussed this. I'm for doing it piecemeal because there are no other options.
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: don't delude yourself that you are doing 'it'
ascii_field: you are doing another thing, spray-painted to resemble 'it'.
gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: yep.
ascii_field: because 'it' does not come into pieces.
ascii_field: and it cannot be done under the thumb of vc sc4mz0rz
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144647 @ 0.00028761 = 41.6019 BTC [+]
gabriel_laddel: I can't remember your exact words, but I think you said in here once "my time would have been better spent putting together a demo than blogging"
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: to avoid rehashing ancient thread for a fifth time, stuck at the realization that reversing xilinx is futile.
ascii_field: interested readers can find the threads.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel for one thing, natural languages can not be modelled in terms of computer langs.
mircea_popescu: the latter are computable.
gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: iirc your argument was "it isn't worthwhile because if you succeed you'll not have enough of them to do anything interesting with"
mircea_popescu: and no, it's not an argument against abstraction period. it's an argument against using abstractive methods outside of their domain of definition
mircea_popescu: which is what "not leaking" is, in mathematical terms.
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: not exactly. even if you could secure an infinite supply of the particular fpga, it turns out that they are not actually very general. in that you cannot efficiently implement muller c-gates in them.
gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: o. I thought that you could if they have an entirely known design?
ascii_field: (before anyone spits back the old paper re: the fact of c-gates implemented on xilinx fabric - go and see how many of them you can fit. and how much room left for interconnects.)
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: could do -something- but not -something worth doing-
ascii_field: nor am i especially interested in building yet another computer with passive memory.
ascii_field: memory as a device that just sits there, is a 20th c. idiocy.
mircea_popescu: what'd you have it do ?
ascii_field: bits expensively stored as charge on si ought to be available for computing asynchronously.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: what'd you have it do << a number of things, which resolve to 'the contents ending up where needed by dependency-graph without being asked every time'
mircea_popescu: if you do that the current addressing schemes would never work
ascii_field: the current addressing schemes are retarded
mircea_popescu: ie, you'd end up with half the space or more taken up by indexes
mircea_popescu: but i have no doubt this is correct, chiefly because that';s how the brain works.
mircea_popescu: incidnetally - would you also have the selective inhibition design ?
ascii_field: certainly
ascii_field: most of it does not need to be addressible at all
mircea_popescu: yeah, for none of this is any of the current toolchain useful, from plant to emacs.
mircea_popescu: maybe the emacs.
mircea_popescu: but this is good news : new stuff is cheaper to build than retooling old stuff.
ascii_field: only 'useful' to the extent a lathe from newton's time was useful to creating today's.
ascii_field: and i could have easily built all of this by 25 y.o. if martians had landed and given me the means.
ascii_field: but that's not how it works
mircea_popescu: i have my doubts.
ascii_field: sure, could have tripped and fell to death in the bath.
mircea_popescu: your first estimates are horrid, historically :D
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: largely because i am not mircea_popescu and not in control of the variables.
mircea_popescu: im just saying, alt-universes aren't much of a guide for anything.
mircea_popescu: be happy if you manage to ever actually make it, or at least nudge towards it. 25 or 55.
ascii_field: did not say that it is a definite guide (to what? l0l)
ascii_field: but that i knew precisely what must be done to make a computer a tolerable thing, most of a decade ago.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field> and i could have easily built all of this by 25 y.o. <<
mircea_popescu: well... maybe. practice has a theory all of its own
mircea_popescu: my question is, where did the guy find condoms that small.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94300 @ 0.00028789 = 27.148 BTC [+]
Chillum: I predict that in 25 years computer software will be full of bugs and vulnerabilities
Chillum: and for all eternity until computers cease to exist
ascii_field: ^ which could be sooner than expected
ascii_field: the gurl's expression !!!
Chillum: well I have a stash of low wattage computers and some solar panels
ascii_field: she is thinking, so intently
Chillum: so unless they are taken away or destroyed I will have something
ascii_field: 'is goldbach's conjecture true ???'
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
mircea_popescu: Chillum is a prepper !?
gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: I'll note that without comprehensive design documents others have to retrace your steps entirely and anyone who is a fan of your work is running on grey goo pipe dreams.
Chillum: mircea_popescu: gold, silver, equipment
mircea_popescu: seriously ?
Chillum: not prepared to live in the forest or anything
Chillum: I expect currency failure
mircea_popescu: wouldn't just keeping a bunch of drug dealers (actual kind, not the derps) on your rolodex work better for the purpoise ?
ascii_field: i call ^ this style of prep 'tomb goods'
Chillum: which will result in a desperation for any trade unit
ascii_field: as what egyptians did.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field same idea.
ascii_field: leaving goodies for one's killers to pick up.
Chillum: the only drugs I am stocking are antibiotics
mircea_popescu: not items. people.
Chillum: I prefer to deal with other types of people
mircea_popescu: i am perhaps the only one here that has actually gone through a collapse, and if that's worth for anything - goods aren't helpful.
Chillum: or none at all if it is an option
mircea_popescu: they CAN be, but they can also not be, and it's hard to know aforehand.
assbot: Logged on 07-04-2015 00:10:01; mircea_popescu: just like having a car doesn't alow having gasoline. it's true that often people who have cars also independently have gasoline, but the two are fundamentally unrelated, and there is such a thing as the fool's breakdown, ie, car's outta gas on the side of hte road.
mircea_popescu: wots on the other hand... can only be helpful.
Chillum: I know during the collapse in Zimbabwe people went to the rivers to collect gold dust and pooled it to have food flown in from out of country
Chillum: though a global collapse would be a different story
mircea_popescu: Chillum did you read about it on wikipedia ?
Chillum: it was a documentary
mircea_popescu: but you see what i mean ?
Chillum: I have not personally experienced such a situation
mircea_popescu: nor have you read stuff written by people outside of this particular cultural space.
Chillum: I read a journal from a woman in Germany when they had their hyperinflation. She was selling the links from her gold chain one at a time
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as group delusion. that's how the french ended up with the urinals.
Chillum: trading that is
mircea_popescu: oh, the weimar stuff ? yeah that was incredibly disciplined.
mircea_popescu: no "snipers in street" type of situation.
Chillum: I read that the banks stopped serving accounts but still operated safe deposit boxes
Chillum: not that I trust SDBs for more than a backup stash
mircea_popescu: anyway, ima bbl.
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: Chillum: consider the question of what kind of social structure has to be in place for the gold chain, etc. to remain yours to trade
ascii_field: rather than ripped from your fresh corpse by whoever.
ascii_field: or the absurdity you were asked to believe, that villagers could have 'food flown in' in exchange for collectively 'picking up gold flakes'
Chillum: the idea behind broken bits of jewellery is that instead of coins that make you look rich it seems like you are selling petty amounts of scrap
Chillum: I have a bag of damaged rings, half a pair of earrings, links that sort of stuff
Chillum: the fact is that anyone with enough resources to survive will be a target
Chillum: regardless of how they can afford those resources
ascii_field: Chillum: the entire exercise is what i call a 'bear suit'
ascii_field: there was once an engineer who occupied himself with the design of a kind of bathyscaph, a sort of 'mecha' suit in which one could survive being beaten and bitten by bears.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163100 @ 0.00028789 = 46.9549 BTC [+]
Chillum: I don't know why you think it is absurd for a large number of people to be able to pull enough gold out of the ground to get an air drop
Chillum: you can make decent bank panning by hand if you work all day long for a week
ascii_field: Chillum: it is quite plausible to a large group of people to pull gold out of the ground
ascii_field: except that it is done in gulag
ascii_field: and not for airdrop, but for a little gruel and another day of not being shot and thrown to the dogs.
Chillum: I am not sure that happened during the Zimbabwe collapse
Chillum: it was for wheat mostly
Chillum: I suppose you can make gruel from wheat
Chillum: though traditionally it is hemp seeds, and is actually really good food
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133930 @ 0.00028993 = 38.8303 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: Chillum: point being that collapse leads to a trade in slaves without necessarily pausing for long at gold chains.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 379270 @ 0.00029122 = 110.451 BTC [+] {5}
ascii_field: slaves after much preliminary culling via natural processes
Chillum: my point is the historically having gold has helped people in bad times
ascii_field: Chillum: familiar with the fact that jars of roman gold, silver are often found even now ?
ascii_field: they did not help their owners.
Chillum: unless people find out you have it... I really shgould not be telling you guys about my gold!
ascii_field: this is the universal explanation for buried treasure, incidentally
Chillum: even today people bury treasure and die without recovering it
ascii_field: Chillum: mandatory 'buried treasure' thread on #b-a >>
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 20:46:17; asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom
Chillum: people get rich enough that they don't need to delve into their stash then they die without telling anyone
trinque reaches the top of the logs
ascii_field: ^ reqd. reading
Chillum: I wish I had a satoshi for everything in the channel that was required reading
trinque: ascii_field: re: earlier thread, seems like it calls for a lab attached to a (perhaps unrelated) other business
ascii_field: Chillum: read it. and understand that the amount of gold that is -yours- is the amount that fits in your body cavities - and, with modern techonology, not even this.
trinque: google is an ad company, gets to work on self driving cars and whatever else
ascii_field: trinque: this fails because the subject of the thread is - as i firmly believe - necessarily the work of -one mind.-
ascii_field: it does not corporatize.
Chillum: well as far as compact wealth that is fungible goes it cannot be beat. Bitcoins are great if there is still an internety
trinque: ascii_field: so corporatize the "chumpatron", not the lab, and own both
Chillum: it traverses changes in currencies
Chillum: you can go from nation to nation and it have value
Chillum: you can only carry so much survival supplies with you
Chillum: pure gold can be tested by a blowtorch, if you make it glow red any alloys will result in bluing, pure gold will not change color
Chillum: (bluing is the discoloration metals show when heated)
trinque: ascii_field: my observation is that very intelligent people often overlook lower hanging fruit because it's uninteresting
trinque: to pull an example out of my ass, there are loads of these "managed firewalls" in american businesses
trinque: restaurants, shops etc
trinque: they're all rubbish, and all certainly horribly insecure
trinque: you could build a product that's an order of magnitude better than what they offer in your sleep
Chillum: I love low hanging fruit
ascii_field: trinque: so corporatize the "chumpatron", not the lab, and own both >> see my comment to mircea_popescu >>
assbot: On owning things on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
ascii_field: the last paragraph.
ascii_field: trinque: i can't speak for you, but i cannot build anything whatsoever in my sleep.
trinque: only so many hours in a day
ascii_field: trinque: i presently do something very vaguely similar to what you suggested, working for something that could be described as an antivirus firm. and it eats most of my stamina.
trinque: still going after weak enemies first seems a good way to start anything
trinque: ascii_field: yeah, plus maybe signing away certain rights to what you produce? (I'd hope not, but it's common)
ascii_field: trinque: not like i need any of it for anything elsewhere
assbot: xkcd: Voting Machines ... ( )
ascii_field: the basic idea of the thread is that no one is willing to pay - as in, -really- pay - for non-retarded things
ascii_field: it's rather like being a doctor who caters specifically to alcoholics
Chillum: retarded sells, just look at the state of movies
ascii_field: but he is not permitted to tell them to stop drinking.
funkenstein_: and the payee decides what that means i suppose?
ascii_field: and now imagine that this is the only kind of doctor there is.
funkenstein_: good evening *tips hat*
trinque: ascii_field: sounds like the kind of thing you'd need an arms race and a benefactor on one side to produce
trinque: if you can't create the product yet maybe the task is to create the customer?
ascii_field: trinque: arms races don't necessarily create long-term thinking.
ascii_field: benefactor would need a time horizon of 500 years at least.
ascii_field: trinque: again can't speak for you, but i can't create the customer any more than can create the weather.
trinque: ascii_field: dunno the answer, but the question would be how you increase the visibility of the problem to those that have resources to fund the thing, but don't currently care
trinque: say I'm the firewall company, I'd not only make my thing, I'd spend money punching holes in everyone else's products all day
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
ascii_field: trinque: the normal paradigm of investment and return fails here
ascii_field: because the only approach that i believe to be correct, will result in something tangible only long after we are all dead.
ascii_field: the only extant analogue of this is the multigenerational starship concept
funkenstein_: seven generations is said to be goal for those who would claim to think long term
ascii_field: the actual number is uninteresting
ascii_field: and unknowable.
trinque: eh, how do you make anyone care about what happens in 7 generations?
funkenstein_: we all care
ascii_field: you need, essentially, fanatics.
Chillum: yup
Chillum: It would be nice to be born into a society that had spent the last 20 generations engaging in long term planning to make life easy
funkenstein_: you might as well ask how you make anyone care about what happens to themselves
Chillum: then just leach off of it
ascii_field: Chillum: where do i leech 50 yrs of free time and a semiconductor plant ?
mats: buying gold for a crisis is a bet that civilization will collapse this far -- and no further.
ascii_field: mats has it.
ascii_field: !s lead standard
assbot: 10 results for 'lead standard' :
mats: a ridiculous idea, really.
funkenstein_: try seeds mats
Chillum: mats: historically civilizations do collapse so far, and no further. Even after the fall of the roman empire gold had value
assbot: ClubOrlov: Financial Totalitarianism ... ( )
trinque: funkenstein_ | you might as well ask how you make anyone care about what happens to themselves << no, this is automatic for me
trinque: I give ample shits about what happens to my own hide
Chillum: I agree it does not prepare for some unprecedented level of collapse
ascii_field: 'And so, the answer to the perennially annoying question “How do I invest my money for it to survive financial, political and commercial collapse?” is this: “There is no answer to your question. Try asking a different question, to which there might be an answer.”'
funkenstein_: trinque, so it is automatic to care about all times then
mats: the only thing i'd ever bother to stockpile are bullets and natural gas
trinque: funkenstein_: no
ascii_field: Even after the fall of the roman empire gold had value << aha, very valuable, but nothing in particular attaches it to your earthly carcass.
trinque: funkenstein_: you're making giant leaps
trinque: if I care about anything at all how could I not care about being able to continue to care?
Chillum: ascii_field: same goes for food and other supplies
mats: i've got some food here in case of emergency but realistically i'll be eaten before i get to that store... too many humans per sq ft in boston.
trinque: in 7 generations my "caring" will have long since extinguished
Chillum: they may just grab you for your sweet ass
Chillum: at least with gold you could buy a gun
funkenstein_: that depends on what you mean by "my" doesn't it
mats: what makes you think anybody would sell you a gun for some shiny?
mats: they'll just put a knife in your chest and take it.
ascii_field: srsly this is not a secret, there is ample literature on what actually happens to idiot schmucks who think that money is magical
ascii_field: and somehow can turn into goodies by itself
trinque: funkenstein_: sure if we substitute my tangible feeling of "being" for some abstract soul which the society may chain to popular groupthink, we can make people do all kinds of things
Chillum: not magical, a tool
Chillum: if you don't act like a tool then you can use the tool
Chillum: idiot schmucks will always go the way of idiot schmucks
Chillum: an idiot can screw up any opportunity, means nothing
ascii_field: Chillum: markets do not disappear in a collapse, but become 'seller's markets' very quickly. the cost of a ticket on schindler's train was a bag of diamonds. the cost of a ticket on same train after it left - $infinite.
Chillum: well if I am in a nazi camp I would probably not benefit much from gold
mats: this kind of thinking is indicative of soft living
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43500 @ 0.00029153 = 12.6816 BTC [+]
trinque: funkenstein_: I'm not saying long term projects can't exist; however, I think they're doomed if they do not benefit the participants all along the way
funkenstein_: very true
Chillum: don't think poverty will protect you from the violent marauders
Chillum: being poor does not bring protection
ascii_field: trinque: which is why i said 'fanatics'. folks who understand that they are human rocket stages and accept this.
funkenstein_: one has to inherently weight the present as more important, it's an endless problem
Chillum: and any protection it does bring could be gained by someone able to pretend they are poor
ascii_field: Chillum: 'pretend you are poor' works until 'poor' means 'ribs showing'
ascii_field: or dead
Chillum: constant travel would be your best bet
Chillum: gladly I live in an area where you could live off the land if you wanted to
trinque: ascii_field: slaves, sure
ascii_field: actually farting sarin gas and spitting bullets at your enemies would be your best bet.
Chillum: though it may get crowded
trinque: but their masters are going to want something from having allocated them
ascii_field: but constant travel is a close second.
ascii_field: the amount of useful information contained in either advice is nil.
trinque: why would any powerful man use himself as another's rocket fuel?
Chillum: ascii_field: I honestly think keeping a low profile would offer a higher chance of survival than using a lot of force. I would carry a weapon but try my hardest not to reveal it, and use it if I do
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 179250 @ 0.00029153 = 52.2568 BTC [+]
ascii_field: Chillum: the only further comment i have for this is that you will be well-served to read up on actual scenarios resembling your hypothetical. rather then using 'zombie apocalypse' 3d shooters as a mental model.
ascii_field: trinque: why would any powerful man use himself as another's rocket fuel? << in so long as this is phrased this way in his head - never.
trinque: ascii_field: also how do you get someone who's sufficiently fanatical to do the project yet rational enough to do it correctly?
Chillum: I have read of Zimbabwe, Germany, Argentina
ascii_field: it would have to be 'will of allah' or whatnot.
trinque: I have my doubts that a mind which believes in the will of allah produces anything of long term value
trinque: fuck it; god will solve the problems.
Chillum: a lot of great discoverers and inventors believed in god
ascii_field: trinque: are you able to see value in the truth as an abstract ?
Chillum: they could not wait for god to do it for them
Chillum: people believe all kinds of stupid shit, even the brilliant ones
funkenstein_: something i found for alf
ascii_field: 'that the protection stuff like checking array boundaries and pointer validity can be handled by the compiler just as effectively as it can in hardware, with the running product a lot faster and a lot simpler to build.' << imbecilic garbage
ascii_field: when 'in software' - can and -will- be stripped out.
ascii_field: for 'speed'
assbot: Re: Lisp advocacy misadventures - Naggum cll archive ... ( )
ascii_field: stockholm syndrome sufferer, justifying status quo so he can avoid fellating his pistol
ascii_field: citing the failures that he and his ilk were responsible for, as proof that problems cannot be solved.
ascii_field: i assume that the discussion concerned my www site, but my points stand even if not.
funkenstein_: el oh fucking el
Chillum: I just got an ESP8266, a $4 chip that has a microcontroller that can run either C or Lua with 512kb memory 8GPIOs and a wifi card with a high level interface. All the size of a SD card and running off 300ma(peak) at 3.3v
ascii_field: funkenstein_: if you know the organism in question, link him to my answer.
Chillum: it can create an access point and run a web server all by itself
ascii_field: Chillum: what some folks will do, just to get nsa into an automatic plant waterer.
funkenstein_: will do
ascii_field: or whatever you were going to do originally with 555 timer, that you are now using 'web server' for
ascii_field: merely because 'it is cheap'
funkenstein_: what do you mean 'in software' will be stripped out?
ascii_field: read the link.
Chillum: one of these and a small battery could record wifi SSIDs and signal strength and time for days
Chillum: later it could be used against googles SSID database to triangulate movement
Chillum: it can fit in almost anything
Chillum: very sacry
Chillum: at least little brother has it too
Chillum: I am sure big brother has something better though
ascii_field: funkenstein_: i am always entertained by folks commenting 'he does not know history of computing', when themselves they do not even know most of it, because it happened on the wrong side of the atlantic
ascii_field: and doesn't exist in english
ascii_field: see, idiot derps who do not know the state of the art and say that they do not need to, because taiwan isn't making it and their corner computer store isn't selling it - belong in africa.
funkenstein_: can't we build up from simple small parts?
ascii_field: funkenstein_: depends
ascii_field: funkenstein_: go and see how much physical space 1kb of memory takes up in a way you can -personally- construct from discrete transistors.
trinque: ascii_field | trinque: are you able to see value in the truth as an abstract ? << I had the opportunity to work for a guy that thought the relational database should be central to operating system design
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
funkenstein_: a lot of the "failures" .. are pretty fucking impressive
trinque: had me wiring up process tables, things in /etc via parsers, everything up into postgresql
ascii_field: bullet molded from shit.
ascii_field: 'fly to the moon by stacking chairs'
funkenstein_: can i use photolithography?
ascii_field: funkenstein_: whatcha waiting for
ascii_field: go, use.
trinque: it was "true" that the system he wanted is far more robust than sed/awk-ing /etc
trinque: all these "puppets" and "chefs" exist because that which holds state on unix is flimsy shit
ascii_field: funkenstein_: wake us up when you get something like intel 4004.
funkenstein_: so what's wrong with the 801 tell it straight up
mats: 16:04:57 <+Chillum> I just got an ESP8266, a $4 chip that has a microcontroller that can run either C or Lua with 512kb memory 8GPIOs and a wifi card with a high level interface. All the size of a SD card and running off 300ma(peak) at 3.3v
mats: you're not seriously going to run wifi or a webserver on it are you?
ascii_field: funkenstein_: expecting an answer to this question in a sentence is the height of folly
ascii_field: but, fundamentally, it is this:
funkenstein_: good point
ascii_field: the tech level to allow -one individual who can hold the design in his mind- to attempt it - wasn't there yet.
Chillum: mats: I am going to hook it to a serial gps chip and make a tiny super low power war walker
trinque: ascii_field: the company of course folded because he let a mundane consulting business die because this relational userland he was after was "obviously where computing should go"
Chillum: but if you ever wanted to add a webserver to your lamp, this is the device
mats: no. its not.
ascii_field: trinque: and where is the man? also dead ?
trinque: ascii_field: drunk at least, mostly dead
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75119 @ 0.00029157 = 21.9024 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: at least consistent.
trinque: lol
mats: can't securely access the thing
trinque: ascii_field: I bring this up because this was a far more incremental change to the stack than you propose, and it still failed miserably
trinque: and failed imo because of refusal to do the mundane
ascii_field: -because- incremental.
trinque: perhaps
ascii_field: there is no incremental path from -committee of crud- to -individual fits-in-head-
Chillum: not all applications call for security. I am making a device that uses a laser to detect a falling drop of water and triggers my camera just as it is impacting in a pool
mats: er s/access/use
Chillum: adding a webserver interface is actually cheaper than a display and buttons
ascii_field: Chillum: not all applications call for security << ?!?!!!!
trinque: ascii_field: the idea was you get everything modeled relationally, and then user can reason about schema rather than myriad other representations of structure
ascii_field: what else do 'not all applications' call for
ascii_field: is it all right if device spontaneously catches fire ?
Chillum: mats: through the serial port you can completely rewrite the firmware... though I suppose on the wire it may be running some spyware, but then so could anything
mats: feature.
Chillum: it runs C code on the processor
Chillum: no OS even
mats: its not the firmware that's the problem
mats: same reason why pogo is only accessible over serial
mats: or whatever the physical arrangements therein
Chillum: well if you want the same thing without wifi just use an arduino
mats: loled
ascii_field head-desks
trinque: ascii_field: doesn't seem that nature takes these massive leaps
Chillum: ascii_field: my point was if someone hacks my camera trigger device they can take pictures and then I will unplug it
ascii_field: nature doesn't build cpu.
trinque: yeah it does
ascii_field: or even the shirt on your back.
trinque knocks on noggin
Chillum: nature builds CPUs that build CPUS
ascii_field: Chillum will get his next cpu from a tree.
trinque: lol
ascii_field: mankind - makes leaps.
ascii_field: everything worth talking about a generation up - is a leap.
Chillum: we are leaping more often
ascii_field: no cow that lived so much as 50 years ago is worth discussing
ascii_field: unless it was used in a medical experiment
trinque: not a good representative of the solutions nature comes up with
trinque: cows are more our fault
ascii_field: even in so much as it was necessary so that paul erdos could have a glass of milk.
ascii_field: the blade of grass the cow ate is not 'our fault' at all
ascii_field: and even less worthy of discussion, as an individual.
Chillum: Babe the Blue Ox?
trinque: having bred together the most docile, drooling morons of the cow-ancestor is
Chillum: not really a cow
trinque: ascii_field: say you burn a trillion dollars on this thing and it simply never works
ascii_field: trinque: that is virtually guaranteed
trinque: so then this sounds like soviet economics at best :D
ascii_field: the only thing i can promise for the $trillion is: more material for the next fella to work with
ascii_field: than otherwise.
ascii_field: trinque: 'soviet economics' was the kind of fool who is the only kind who can make sufficiently long bets.
trinque: didn't seem to work out for them
ascii_field: excepting perhaps ancient egyptians, or medieval christendom
funkenstein_: i'm not sure i get this "hold it all in your mind" fascination
trinque: funkenstein_: that I get 100%
ascii_field: funkenstein_: until you grasp it, we have nothing to discuss
ascii_field: read the logs.
Chillum: no society works out on a big enough scale
funkenstein_: protons
assbot: Logged on 25-02-2015 21:13:46; mircea_popescu: the entire "act from cause not towards purpose" thing on trilema is exactly a vaccine against that.
ascii_field: ^ mandatory
funkenstein_: the car is a common example
trinque: ascii_field: are there not smaller discoveries which would be useful independently which would build towards the final product?
ascii_field: trinque: certainly
trinque: well that'd be the thing to do then
trinque: chart a course towards the smallest of them, and towards selling it as well
trinque: not "burn a kingdom"
trinque: if it's right you should be able to get rich doing each bit of it
ascii_field: trinque: the only unsolved problem that would make a palpable difference is the home ic fab. which makes home satellite launch look trivial.
ascii_field: trinque: wake me up when you solve this
ascii_field: without being killed by usg
ascii_field: but -don't wake me up- if you want to be 'the delusionist'
funkenstein_: fpga not good enough for you?
assbot: Delusionist ... ( )
ascii_field: fuck, none of you read logs, do you
trinque: funkenstein_: he's already talked at length about FPGA
ascii_field: !s xilinx
assbot: 62 results for 'xilinx' :
trinque: ascii_field: I do indeed read the logs
mats: poor ascii, beset on all sides
trinque: I'm stating obvious facts about business which will still be true in 2198
funkenstein_: seeing as the same shit keeps coming up.. a certain amount of accepting what we have might be in order
ascii_field: trinque: nothing about electricity made 'business sense' in 1810.
funkenstein_: and using it to fix shit
mats: there is not always commercial value in incremental science
trinque: mats: I think scientists might just tend to think themselves above commerce
ascii_field: the only reason you are reading this by electric light, instead of mumbling to yourself in a field, is that someone had the freedom to counter-economically pull his mental dick by experimenting with strange.
ascii_field: the economic actors came second.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70100 @ 0.00029162 = 20.4426 BTC [+]
trinque: sure
funkenstein_: if you are in it for the money you are an amateur
trinque: funkenstein_: oh come on
trinque: iirc the house that invented the light bulb made a great deal of money selling them
funkenstein_: quoting
trinque: this is anticapitalist nonsense
funkenstein_: no it is common sense
ascii_field: trinque: lodygin didn't make terribly much from light bulb.
mats: there is such a thing as frictional force business you know
mats: er, in business.
trinque: ascii_field: was he permitted to benefit from the fruits of his own labor, or did this belong to some all-owning state? I am not familiar enough with Russian history to say.
ascii_field: thing is, you don't get to make herr lodygin not exist, just so your ideology can make sense.
ascii_field: or lilienfeld's transistor.
ascii_field: or, or, or
ascii_field: or farnsworth's television
funkenstein_: the interesting bit is what you guys actually do with your lives, not who says they have what in which accounts
trinque: I am not questioning whether people solve problems simply because of the satisfaction of doing so
ascii_field: ^ lived in usa
ascii_field: funkenstein_: aha let's change subject, sure
ascii_field: it is germane.
trinque: I think it's fine to say the capitalist and the scientist are different men
funkenstein_: here's a possibly unrelated query for you
Chillum: batman was both
trinque: but also that if you're talking about projects that span any considerable length of time, you're gonna need a capitalist
ascii_field: trinque: who was korolev's capitalist ?
trinque: armies run on food
trinque: and boots
trinque: and so on
trinque: oil, metal, w/e
funkenstein_: oh never mind :P i'm off for a drink
trinque: the guy that discovers a thing is not the only part of the process
trinque: how bout producing more than one of the thing
trinque: ascii_field: looks like his capitalist was the soviet state
ascii_field: trinque: interestingly, there are quite a few technologies which, in the popular mind, 'don't exist' because you cannot get them at the corner store.
ascii_field: e.g., doped diamond semiconductor
ascii_field: but they exist nevertheless.
trinque: ascii_field: ah, I am not also saying that because something's not at walmart it doesn't really exist. the market being skewed towards morons is a separate problem which needs to be solved
ascii_field: trinque: consider an example:
ascii_field: P. Ya. Ufimtsev, Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction, Soviet Radio, Moscow, 1962.
ascii_field: does this ring a bell?
ascii_field: it should.
ascii_field: the (meanwhile obsolete today but that is another conversation) 'stealth' airplane - lives and dies by this paper
ascii_field: a fact not disputed by its makers
ascii_field: note that herr ufimtsev did not go to a venture capitalist and ask for money to live on so he could study mathematics and live a long life of possibly not amounting to anything that could be cashed in to pay it back.
trinque: well the soviet state was the patron of these scientists, yes?
ascii_field: like a demented old woman who invests in pyramid scams ten times a day
trinque: ultimately consumed by the rot of central economic planning?
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
trinque: how does that thing run long enough for your zealots to produce the computer?
ascii_field: trinque: same question will be asked of usa
ascii_field: and every other mega-empire
ascii_field: how did aztecs stay in business long enough to build their pyramid temples?
ascii_field: egypt?
trinque: bizarre obsession with a single topic coupled with sort of living in an undisturbed bubble for long enough
ascii_field: empires - age. and die. like people.
chetty: same answer for all of the above, believers
trinque: chetty: yeah but "believers in bubble" I think
chetty: well a bubble holds the belief together for longer
ascii_field: in what bubble did mr newton live ?
trinque: wasn't it wealth?
ascii_field: arguably in christendom, but he did write 'i do not need that hypothesis' when asked where the place of the creator was in 'principia'
ascii_field: ditto ussr
chetty: even in bubbles you get a few ...
ascii_field: what particular state religion is in use, is unimportant so long as ufimtsev et al can do their thing.
Chillum: trinque: he was born to a farming family
chetty points at ascii_field
trinque: right so what arrangement produces the longest-term supply of wealthy, educated, cultured patrons?
ascii_field: in bubbles, you sometimes get visitors from older, long-popped bubbles
Chillum: his mom wanted him to stop school to go back to farming when he was a teenager
chetty: <trinque> right so what arrangement produces the longest-term supply of wealthy, educated, cultured patrons?// afaik feudalism
ascii_field: trinque: this is not a question that anyone has any use for the answer of, even if i could convincingly answer it. but otherwise - chetty has it.
Chillum: it was a good system, if you were in charge
trinque: Chillum: or could demonstrate value to someone who was
ascii_field: Chillum: and if not. i spend a vastly larger fraction of my waking hours working to pay tax than any medieval peasant in europe did.
Chillum: I try not to work too hard
chetty: second that ascii_field
ascii_field: to wrap up the thread, when i spoke of 'fanatic' i was referring precisely to mircea_popescu's 'act from cause not towards purpose' maxim.
trinque: I don't see the connection to fanaticism there
trinque: a fanatic has a purpose
trinque: "I will bring about the glorious *it*"
ascii_field: trinque: that is a formulation for the simple
ascii_field: in actuality, there are two kinds of human activity. 'i will do this because my cock will be sucked, or to avoid whipping', and the other being 'i will do this because it is right'
ascii_field: 1 is 'purpose'; 2 - 'cause'.
trinque: I am skeptical of the "right" used there, but that's an entirely other thread
ascii_field: virtually anyone worth speaking to, is, upon examination, motivated by some (2) and not merely (1).
ascii_field: think of the partizan who dies under torture rather than rat out comrades
ascii_field: or whatever equivalent exists in your particular culture (and if your culture doesn't have such heroes, it is moribund and time to gtfo)
trinque: person in question doesn't want to live in a world where comrades are ratted, or at least not his
trinque: that can be entirely rational
trinque: doesn't require a zealot in service to something imaginary
ascii_field: the world that exists after your death is imaginary.
trinque: yeah but there are perhaps circumstances less appealing than death
ascii_field: if you don't see this, you are playing mental gymnastics, but whatever rocks your boat.
trinque: ascii_field: no that was precisely my point earlier
trinque: considering 7 generation projects
asciilifeform: !up diametric
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114433 @ 0.00028772 = 32.9247 BTC [-]
assbot: Florida Teen Charged With Felony Hacking For Changing Desktop Wallpaper - Slashdot ... ( )
trinque: infrequently I experience extreme headaches
funkenstein_: ascii_field wut?
trinque: the dehumanizing, laughing at nothing, vomiting kind
funkenstein_: you trollin bro
trinque: since they are infrequent I do not feel this way, but if they were daily I'd gladly end my life rather than continue in those conditions
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 187471 @ 0.00028093 = 52.6662 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: has nothing to do with the situation after death
trinque: ratting comrades might make a person feel the same way about himself, so he choses death
funkenstein_: the world that exists after your birth is imaginary <-- makes more sense
ascii_field: 'A 14-year-old middle school student in Holiday, Florida, was arrested this week and charged with "an offense against a computer system and unauthorized access," which is a felony. The student reportedly used an administrator password to log into a teacher's computer and change the background image to a photo of two men kissing. The student also revealed his secrets after he was caught – the password was the teacher'
ascii_field: s last name, and the teacher had typed it in in full view of the students. The student said many other students used these administrators' passwords (their teachers' last names) so they can screen-share and video chat with other students. The student was briefly held in a nearby detention center, and the county Sheriff warned that other teenagers caught doing the same thing will "face the same consequences."'
trinque has to run, will pick up the thread upon return
ascii_field: 'Kids need to learn the consequences of embarrassing powerful people. That is one of the golden rules of modern society; thou shalt not embarrass thy superiors. Snowden forgot that, and this little punk forgot that. You respect your betters, or you get tossed in a cage. That's the law. Ingrain that into your kid's brains before puberty hits, or they will wind up in a cage too.' << from commentz
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61158 @ 0.00027974 = 17.1083 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140300 @ 0.00027864 = 39.0932 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 215200 @ 0.00028284 = 60.8672 BTC [+] {3}
funkenstein_: no public key - can't apply revocation certificate <--- gpg --import spits this out. what does it mean?
ascii_field: funkenstein_: likely means that there is a revocator packet in there for some key you don't have in your collection
ascii_field: should not be a fatal error
funkenstein_: thanks.. but it seems it is not taking the public key which was given to me
funkenstein_: it's a new public key someone sent me
funkenstein_: a shady character as it happens
funkenstein_: no matter i'll ask for a new one, thanks again
mircea_popescu: prolly key was revoked already
asciilifeform: !up ascii_field
mircea_popescu: hm did qntra hit a truly major spike or something ?
assbot: Battle for the right to play old multiplayer games take shape. | ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29637 @ 0.00028698 = 8.5052 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92813 @ 0.00028698 = 26.6355 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 216393 @ 0.00028333 = 61.3106 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up shinohai
Chillum: ultima online, good times
Chillum: heck Ultima IV good times
shinohai: o/ mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: which one is ultima ? the one with vi domina etc ?
mircea_popescu: ello shinohai
shinohai: are we going to defeat the bitcoin foundation and build a real btc wallet?
mircea_popescu: who's we. for that matter, who are you.
mircea_popescu: << you know, people have direct contact with this : beggars in every major town are run by organized crime.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:13:36; ascii_field: or the absurdity you were asked to believe, that villagers could have 'food flown in' in exchange for collectively 'picking up gold flakes'
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, same people actually believe the equivalent of beggars in a river somewhere are... a communal co-op!
mircea_popescu: talk about a memory hole.
mircea_popescu: what exactly would prevent me from beating the shit out of the 'villagers' each day, having them digging out gold nuggets till they drop so i can have more guns flown in ?
mircea_popescu: it's how fucking africa runs since... oh i dunno, 1500 ?
shinohai: I am no one. Just a person that wants to secure the future of this tech
shinohai: not interested in picking up gold flakes. If i was i'd still get my bitcoin from faucets
mircea_popescu: << gruel is actually made out of oats, traditionally. rye, in some places. it also expanded to mean figuratively "any cheap unpretentious bland boiled stuff"
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:18:17; Chillum: though traditionally it is hemp seeds, and is actually really good food
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:21:41; Chillum: I wish I had a satoshi for everything in the channel that was required reading
shinohai: Wish in one and shit in the other. See which fills up quicker.
shinohai: I have actually quoted you before mircea_popescu
shinohai: How if we wish to have nice things, we need to pay for them
shinohai: ad naseum
mircea_popescu: << and run into the 17th standard problem ? the reason they're horribru is because they're stuck working for dwim users who are very diverse.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:27:44; trinque: you could build a product that's an order of magnitude better than what they offer in your sleep
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93165 @ 0.00028866 = 26.893 BTC [+]
shinohai: I work for no one at this point.
shinohai: So lol
shinohai: I just like stirring pots
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 381900 @ 0.00027835 = 106.3019 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: << people certainly understand problems stated in terms of sex a fuckload better than they understand the same problems stated in "abstract" terms huh.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:33:25; Chillum: anti-virus:
shinohai: touche
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:39:27; ascii_field: trinque: again can't speak for you, but i can't create the customer any more than can create the weather.
trinque: heh!
mircea_popescu: << yeah. or in simpler terms : suppose you're the foreign kid in class that not only throws everyone's curve to the point where most of them flunk
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:42:35; trinque: say I'm the firewall company, I'd not only make my thing, I'd spend money punching holes in everyone else's products all day
mircea_popescu: but also makes fun of them all day for it.
mircea_popescu: how'd that conceivably go ?
shinohai: meh I've been made fun of before
shinohai: ask TradeFortress how that wen
shinohai: *went
Chillum: I had this job and we had to get our site certified for some credit card standard. They required anti-virus software, but we run linux. So we installed an anti-virus scanner designed to find windows viruses in attachments for e-mail servers
mircea_popescu: shinohai dawg you're trying too hard. how about you get in the wot, settle down to some reading ?
Chillum: it passed
mircea_popescu: im sure someone somewhere had a chuckle.
trinque: Chillum: PCI is a joke
Chillum: indeed it is
shinohai: if i make wot so be it
shinohai: if not im doing my thing
Chillum: wow you are so independent!
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:46:18; Chillum: It would be nice to be born into a society that had spent the last 20 generations engaging in long term planning to make life easy
mircea_popescu: do you love it ?
Chillum: that is only part of what I said
Chillum: I then said "Then I can leach off of it"
Chillum: yes I do
trinque: central planning eh?
shinohai: may iask mircea_popescu what u think i try so hard at ?
mircea_popescu: imo it's kinda dweeby, but hey. one doesn't get to choose the times
trinque: that was the thread with alf earlier
mircea_popescu: shinohai that part is unclear.
shinohai: naturally
Chillum: The danger of planning tasks beyond your lifetime is instead of grand stabilizing projects they turn into welfare
Chillum: like social security
mircea_popescu: << gold had value in the sense prostitutes are pleasant. sure, in general.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:47:23; Chillum: mats: historically civilizations do collapse so far, and no further. Even after the fall of the roman empire gold had value
trinque: Chillum: or it falls apart because the narrative keeping people doing it is bullshit
mircea_popescu: not to you.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146500 @ 0.00029023 = 42.5187 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: books also had meaning. all through the dark ages.
mircea_popescu: the arabs collected them.
Chillum: that worked out well
mircea_popescu: sure, in general it did.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, politicians are pliable, policemen respectful and judges amenable. in all times and places. that's what these do.
mircea_popescu: doctors cure diseases.
mircea_popescu: you however... you got cancer. what now ?
shinohai: books haz moar value than gold
Chillum: I used to sell books for a living, they really don't
mircea_popescu: so did orwell.
trinque: assbot has it
mircea_popescu: came to the same conclusion, apparently.
Chillum: by that I mean I wrote repricing scripts that set the prices on millions of books
mircea_popescu: oh that bit.
Chillum: some people are so dumb they insist on pricing their book at 1 cent below the lowest price every hour when we have told them that other people are doing that
Chillum: then they complain that their books cost 1 penny
mircea_popescu: << or to put it in actual cannonical form, "how do i ensure my personal relevance transcends gaps which specifically annull the relevance of things existing prior ???". get in line, every old guy since afanti wanted to figure this one out.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:47:50; ascii_field: 'And so, the answer to the perennially annoying question “How do I invest my money for it to survive financial, political and commercial collapse?” is this: “There is no answer to your question. Try asking a different question, to which there might be an answer.”'
Chillum: a lot of people priced their books by weight because they bought them by the ton
Chillum: buy @ 5 cents per kilo sell at 10 cents per kilo
Chillum: except they used pounds because they were american sigh
mircea_popescu: Chillum this is how it worked in belle epoque paris rly.
Chillum: naturally the books that sell by weight tend to be the ones that don't sell
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68544 @ 0.00029162 = 19.9888 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: books as a product kinda died a decade or two prior.
mircea_popescu: i used to have a huge library, i wouldnt buy a book today.
Chillum: yes, online sales is essentially liquidation for a lot of sellers
mircea_popescu: better ways to grow fungi and afids on your walls if you're really into that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60556 @ 0.00029249 = 17.712 BTC [+] {2}
Chillum: people would arbitrage book auctions compared to known prices and then ship it all to Amazon for them to handle the shipping. Pencil pushers buying us dying companies and selling with least effort possible
Chillum: s/us/up/
Chillum: a lot of online book sellers never handle a book
Chillum: we call them "widgets"
mircea_popescu: his is pretty common.
mircea_popescu: whitelabelling and dropshipping and all that is how the "service economy" operates.
Chillum: very very stupid people
Chillum: introverted, antisocial, stupid bookseller
mircea_popescu: << about the same that happens to people who thing their feelings are important.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:50:13; ascii_field: and somehow can turn into goodies by itself
mircea_popescu: they get pregnant and then used to it.
mircea_popescu: << "goal-oriented" has appeared in literature recently. there is a reason for this.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:52:08; trinque: funkenstein_: I'm not saying long term projects can't exist; however, I think they're doomed if they do not benefit the participants all along the way
mircea_popescu: most of human history, and the vast majority of everything nice and good, came out of cause-oriented. so common in fact it didn't even have a name.
mircea_popescu: what motivates the monkey to pick up the rock isn't some sort of contorted dream about becoming a rockthrowing revolutionary ceo.
Chillum: any long term project will be cannibalized the moment it become inconvenient not too
mircea_popescu: it is a much simpler "here is a rock."
Chillum: the pyramids used to have a lovely limestone cover
mircea_popescu: Chillum and kept it, until napoleon showed up.
mircea_popescu: the locals didn't. you know ?
trinque: mircea_popescu: right, this seems directly at odds with the multigenerational, self-sacrificial quest for truth
Chillum: actually there are very old towns build from the pyramids limestone
Chillum: in ruins
mircea_popescu: you're thinking the modern villages in england built out of their various ancient druid stuff.
Chillum: not all of it
Chillum: nope that is not what I am thinking of
mircea_popescu: i been to egypt, never seen these towns.
trinque: mircea_popescu: is this idea of the colossal project a russian thing?
Chillum: I don't see how I could confuse such different things
Chillum: I have been to Kenya, I did not see a giraffe
Chillum: they still exist
Chillum: I saw an elephant though
mircea_popescu: i saw a giraffe but it wasn't kenya.
mircea_popescu: trinque um, why russian ?
Chillum: the elephant was very far away, but I saw it
trinque: mircea_popescu: stan likes to bring up russian scientists
mircea_popescu: im kinda sorrty we don't have an ukr alf here, it'd be fun to watch the two.
Chillum: At this forest like park I was drinking(they have bars in parks there!) and there were these little monkeys everywhere
mircea_popescu: "you no say ukraine is weak!"
Chillum: some fool at another table fed them and suddenly they had like 20 monkeys
mircea_popescu: practically street urchins, huh.
Chillum: then a freaking baboon walked by our table and gave us a nod as it went by
Chillum: the people I was with said they don't normally live in that area but that one lives in the park
mircea_popescu: << this has historically not been the case.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:54:15; Chillum: constant travel would be your best bet
mircea_popescu: << actually being a woman, especially if young, and very very easy is what offers the best chance of survival.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:55:32; Chillum: ascii_field: I honestly think keeping a low profile would offer a higher chance of survival than using a lot of force. I would carry a weapon but try my hardest not to reveal it, and use it if I do
mircea_popescu: being a man is already such a bad deal very little you'll do can possibly compensate.
mircea_popescu: pretty cool.
Chillum: just imagine being a baboon living in a people park
mircea_popescu: what's the big deal ? animals are versatile. pigeons do it, why wouldn't monkeys.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:57:02; ascii_field: trinque: why would any powerful man use himself as another's rocket fuel? << in so long as this is phrased this way in his head - never.
mircea_popescu: dude i missed a buncha good lines!
Chillum: All I remember thinking is that this animal has super human strength and speed
trinque: I enjoyed that thread
trinque: mircea_popescu: what is the alternate phrasing?
mircea_popescu: << nonsense, this. the arabs produced the fucking algorithm.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:57:55; trinque: I have my doubts that a mind which believes in the will of allah produces anything of long term value
Adlai shares another one of his ideas that require more rocket fuel than he has to offer - something which inputs log.b-a, and outputs actual threads
mircea_popescu: and chemistry.
Chillum: they invented zero
Chillum: that is like half of computer
mircea_popescu: Adlai heh. so make a forum out of it?
trinque: been a while since eh?
Chillum: one being the other half
Chillum: s/computer/computing/
mircea_popescu: trinque "a man that does what he can and takes pleasure in it will do what he can and take pleasure in it".
trinque: looks like they got as much as they could out of allah a while ago
Adlai: mircea_popescu: no! envision a secretary, lurking in-channel, tagging each message with the 'thread' to which it belongs
Adlai: now lock the secretary in a room with no internet and logs
mircea_popescu: think in terms of impregnating women, trinque. why don't you do it ? because what it... means, what it implies. but imagine it implied exactly nothing. well then ? why not ?
trinque: sure, all over the place
Chillum: trinque: religion isn't about getting something, it is about people taking from you
mircea_popescu: Chillum argument was "enduring"
Adlai: "war isn't about who's right, it's about who's left"
trinque: mircea_popescu: alf says the guy needs to burn all his women to make the computer
trinque: or that's my understanding
mircea_popescu: i doubt the guy cares what alf says.
mircea_popescu: Adlai ahaha excellent.
Adlai: mircea_popescu: excellent the quote, or the thread-annotator concept?
mircea_popescu: the quote.
mircea_popescu: yes, war is about how the women will be left, and they'll reform society into an imbecillic construction that'll require the next war.
mircea_popescu: seems improbable for anyone to manage to ever break this cycle.
Adlai: the disadvantage of having a threader is that it saves newbies the valuable educational work of thinking while they read
Chillum: we could send women to war and the guys stay home
Chillum: it is their turn anyways
mircea_popescu: why not tax the rich and help the poor, while at it.
mircea_popescu: or piss upstream or w/e.
Chillum: we could hold the war in a really inconvenient location so that nobody shows up
Chillum: on a tuesday
mircea_popescu: all fine ideas that never work. and in any case : i was discussing gender not sex.
mircea_popescu: whoever you send to war is gonna be the male.
mircea_popescu: 'cuz they went.
Chillum: "one of these guys is not like the others..."
trinque: Chillum: kid in the pink jumpsuit, clearly
Chillum: yup
Chillum: hint, I am not from Kenya
Adlai: the child was clearly adopted from inner-city parents who couldn't afford to raise it
Adlai: eg detroit
Chillum: while it may look like detroit is it in fact not
Chillum: notice the trees
mircea_popescu: is Chillum hotter than nubbins` ?
trinque: that building's too sturdy for detroit
Chillum: not sure, I am pretty hot
mircea_popescu: Chillum what do they call the djalabeya in kenya ?
Chillum: I don't know that word
mircea_popescu: the jumpsuit as the fellow put it
Chillum: I don't know
mircea_popescu: everyone wears the same thing and calls it sopmething else.
Chillum: but I will say even in the poor areas people were pretty well dressed
Chillum: it must be a cultural thing
mircea_popescu: apparently the english canonical form is jalabiya
Chillum: particularly when they were in town
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:04:58; Chillum: I just got an ESP8266, a $4 chip that has a microcontroller that can run either C or Lua with 512kb memory 8GPIOs and a wifi card with a high level interface. All the size of a SD card and running off 300ma(peak) at 3.3v
mircea_popescu: are they available in qty ?
Chillum: yes
Chillum: they are mass produced
Chillum: got mine on ebay
mircea_popescu: what's it power the wifi from ?
mircea_popescu: << dude, why so disdainful ? if you don't trust people you don't know on the basis of what they write, "warm smile and handshake" smarm, why would you despise people you also don't know on the basis of six lines ? what are you, mazarin ?
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:05:18; ascii_field: funkenstein_: if you know the organism in question, link him to my answer.
Chillum: It says +25dBm on it
Chillum: there are several models, a few have external antenna ports
mircea_popescu: whats that like 1/3 W ?
Chillum: not sure
mircea_popescu: pretty decent iirc 15ish is the norm. mebbe 20.
Chillum: the esp-07 version is the small one with more memory and gpios and external antenna port
Chillum: $3.88 each
Chillum: and that is to buy one, I am sure there are bulk discounts
Chillum: This guy:
mircea_popescu: Chillum something's amiss, actually. the +25dBm needs to output >320 mW. your thing can't eat 300mW peak and also output 320. but anyway, usual commercial puffery.
Chillum: ya, just reading what the website says
Chillum: I may have misread too
assbot: ESP8266 Wifi Range/Distance Tests (Wi07C) - YouTube ... ( )
Chillum: they get over a kilometer without an ext ant, more with
mircea_popescu: yah pretty impressive.
mircea_popescu: esp for how tiny it is.
Chillum: indeed. Its impressive features include its tiny price, tiny size, and tiny power usage(even if it is over 300ma)
Chillum: the old version was C only and that was great, now they have a lua interpreter which makes handling network connections so much easier
Chillum: the lua interpreter is of course just C
mircea_popescu: i'd imagine.
Chillum: about 140k of C, very efficient
Chillum: If you ever want to include a scripting language in an embedded device but don't have a lot of resources to spare, that is what lua was made for
Chillum: it has very good sandboxing
mircea_popescu: i gather. used extensively in gaming for this reason.
whaack: Is there a way to prevent NickServ from dropping my account? It says I'm not registered now
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:14:35; ascii_field: go, use.
mircea_popescu: whaack why would nickserv drop an account ? i never heard of this.
mircea_popescu: but should prolly ask in #freenode.
whaack: well I try to identify and it says I'm not registered
Chillum: did you perhaps have 1 or 3 "a"s in your last username?
mircea_popescu: wrong name ?
Chillum: wrong irc network?
mircea_popescu: << wait, that's legal where you live ? Terroristia ?
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:16:42; Chillum: mats: I am going to hook it to a serial gps chip and make a tiny super low power war walker
whaack: nope definitely 2 a's, I'll pop in freenode
Chillum: all it does is listen
Chillum: there is nothing illegal about listening to radio transmission on public bands
Chillum: in fact it sends nothing so it is very hard to detect
Chillum: (anything electical can technically be detected)
mats: you know there are war driving communities that have likely already mapped your entire region, right
Chillum: mats: what fun is that?
Chillum: I walk anyways
Chillum: my raspberry pi gets 9 hours from a small battery, the ESP8266 with a low power gps receiver will run off a small battery for days
Chillum: it has a 2ms wake-up time so it can be in low power sleep mode and just check every 10 seconds
Chillum: or 5 seconds
mats: whatever gets you hard i guess
Chillum: it does, really hard
Chillum: I once made a "boss detector" with a raspberry pi. The bosses cell phone sent out wifi pings constantly, this told me if he was in wifi range by turning on a red light
mircea_popescu: Chillum you blogging this ?
Chillum: If I get it working I will
mircea_popescu: plz blog this. pics, schematics, how tos, the works.
Chillum: for sure
Chillum: source code even
mircea_popescu: and none of those "public blog service" shits either,
Chillum: I use S3 for anything I host
Chillum: and I use vim to make my pages
Chillum: that is why they are so ugly
Chillum: one day I will learn style sheets
mircea_popescu: i use vi half the time.
mircea_popescu: "The core problem is that C programmers think they can get away with doing much less than the Common Lisp programmer causes the computer to do. But this is actually wrong. Getting C programmers to understand that they cause the computer to do less than minimum is intractable. They would not /use/ C if they understood this point, so if you actually cause them to understand it in the course of a discussion, you will o
mircea_popescu: nly make them miserable and hate their lives. People are pretty good at detecting that this is a likely outcome of thinking, and it takes conscious effort to brace yourself and get through such experiences. Most people are not willing even to /listen/ to arguments or information that could threaten their comfortable view of their own existence, much less think about it, so when you cannot answer a C programmer's "arg
mircea_popescu: uments" that his way of life is just great the way it is, it is a pretty good sign that you let him set the agenda once he realized that his way of life was under threat. Since you have nothing to defend, your self-preservation instinct will not activate hitherto unused parts of your brain to come up with reasons and rationalizations for what you have done, you will not be aware that you have been taken for a ride befo
mircea_popescu: re it is over and you "lost"."
mircea_popescu: this is actually some prime rib right there.
mircea_popescu: i wonder if it's also actually correct.
Chillum: I know I am not thorough enough to use C
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: actually farting sarin gas and spitting bullets at your enemies would be your best bet. << Greatest challenge is storing it in the colon without absorbing it.
Chillum: I wish others did
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80996 @ 0.00029272 = 23.7091 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: << this actually sounds like you could make a company.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:16:59; Chillum: but if you ever wanted to add a webserver to your lamp, this is the device
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> what exactly would prevent me from beating the shit out of the 'villagers' << i did try to point this out, l0l
mircea_popescu: create a corp to market interruptors with a standard apache.
Chillum: mircea_popescu: there is a youtube video of a guy making a wifi controllable lamp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you did. i parse rather than compile, admittedly.
Chillum: now someone can find a Lua code injection attack on your lamps webserver and use it to sniff your home network
Chillum: because the chip can do runtime interpreting of code
mircea_popescu: Chillum so make them secure.
Chillum: and rewrite itself while running
Chillum: good advice
mircea_popescu: i seriously think you have a marketable product here.
Chillum: Though embedded products are not well known for security
mircea_popescu: exactly.
Chillum: wifi lamps? Its been done
mircea_popescu: no. aftermarket web-accessible switches.
mircea_popescu: dyi type of item
Chillum: I am working on a 8 channel wifi relay board
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> i used to have a huge library, i wouldnt buy a book today. << i still do, but it is shrinking, shrinking...
Chillum: for general purpose
Chillum: xmass lights and such
Chillum: home automation etc
Chillum: 8x mechanical relays that can each handle 30 amps 220v
mircea_popescu: only vaguely related, i wonder how well a "bid for this space in bitcoin" display advertising thing would work.
Chillum: with an API, at least that is my goal
mircea_popescu: completely decentralize media buying.
Chillum: mircea_popescu: that is an interesting idea. How does bidding work? People just send their bid, then what happens when someone outbids them
mircea_popescu: << imo not because incremental, but because poorly managed.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:18:35; ascii_field: -because- incremental.
Chillum: it could sell specific time slots and the bidding could happen right up until it is chosen, then the losing bids sent back
trinque: mircea_popescu: indeed; that job was a shitshow
mircea_popescu: Chillum specify bitmap and time interval. goes to highest bidder. like adsense
Chillum: but you would need a deposit to make sure bids are real
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... actually being a woman, especially if young, and very very easy is what offers the best chance of survival. << 'how to avoid drowning at sea?' 'be water'
mircea_popescu: exactly alf.
asciilifeform: or the old 'choose your parents carefully' (TM)
Chillum: so refund bids to losers may work, or they could apply the credit to another ad
mircea_popescu: not sure that'd help. choice problem
mircea_popescu: the sorts of parents you'd choose are the problem in the firsat place.
mircea_popescu: if you could be trusted to choose parents correctly doom wouldn't be upon us.
mircea_popescu: Chillum just have people keep an acct with you.
mircea_popescu: "if you don't have > 1 btc with me you can't bid at all, fu."
Chillum: I see
mircea_popescu: you ever see that film, wtf was it called. "GET SOME FUCKING MONEY"
Chillum: one of the great things about bitcoin services is that accounts are not strictly needed. For example you could send a request to a service without any authentication, it could respond with a price and address
Chillum: pay it and get your service
Chillum: I know. You accept bids from everyone at any time. You get the amount of ad-time relative to the size of what you paid to the whole
Chillum: that way no need for accounts or refunds
mircea_popescu: Chillum this is what i said.
trinque: and my ad runs for 3 seconds, lol
mircea_popescu: "specify bitmap and time interval. goes to highest bidder."
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... dude, why so disdainful ? if you don't trust people you don't know on the basis of what they write << because i can see the hallmarks of educated mendacity. the man, whoever he is, knows that i know the history. and pretends otherwise, and that he has some sort of 'lesson' for old ignorant me. i know the type, they infest (or once did) my comments section.
mircea_popescu: i guess it's not what i said. ITS WHAT I MEANT!
mircea_popescu: like bitbet does it.
Chillum: you said people would have an account, goes to the highest bidder
Chillum: I said no account everyone gets some ad time
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform methinks you might be seeing too much in there.
Chillum: ah what you meant...
mircea_popescu: Chillum dwim damnit!
Chillum: glad I was able to help you put your ideas into works
Chillum: that could work
mircea_popescu: i am fortunate in that having been here a while, my ideas are already facts, so i can fall back on that lol.
Chillum: too bad advertising is one of the greatest evils going
mircea_popescu: yeah, too bad.
mircea_popescu: is that a reference to the rape article ?
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> i wonder if it's also actually correct. << it doesn't -get- much more correct.
asciilifeform: i'll sign under every word of it, fwiw.
mircea_popescu: i can still wonder can't i!
asciilifeform: aftermarket web-accessible switches << sold...
asciilifeform: there are several vendors
mircea_popescu: yeah but how much ?
trinque: my end of that thread was that they're all shit
trinque: and "they're all shit" is seen in many other parts of the US economy
mircea_popescu: << he gave you a fine example tho. so someone hijacks his idle camera ? whatevs.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:19:28; ascii_field: Chillum: not all applications call for security << ?!?!!!!
asciilifeform: at the very least, it becomes a ddos drone
asciilifeform: and we so much need more of these.
mircea_popescu: so WE would need his app to security ?
mircea_popescu: problem.
asciilifeform: or, in world of tomorrow - he, to avoid beatings.
mircea_popescu: but if he's forced to enforce your interest
mircea_popescu: what of his freedom!
asciilifeform: i live in the lands of beautiful freedom, where folks throw trash from moving cars etc
asciilifeform: in celebration of it.
asciilifeform: but in ip-over-gossip net, yes, pwned machine is solely the owner's grief, like his stolen bicycle.
mircea_popescu: which is why that is a better design.
asciilifeform: the only reasonable design.
mircea_popescu: but i wouldn't sign off on him being beaten because tcp/ip sucks.
asciilifeform: old net was gated. gossipnet - likewise gates. we, today - a perverse interregnum.
asciilifeform: ad bid board << i had this idea, probably like everybody else
asciilifeform: the fact of the matter appears to be (ben_vulpes and his experiment, etc) that the folks who pay for ads are largely the old cargo cultists and have very little to do with bitcoin, for perfectly logical reasons of it being a bugspray against their species
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: whaack why would nickserv drop an account ? i never heard of this. << They drop registrations after just a few weeks of disuse, because Freenode
asciilifeform is presently wondering whether, if mircea_popescu's prescription 'be young and female' were an actual algorithm that folks could -execute- - how many would
mircea_popescu: probably all those that are really female deep down.
mircea_popescu: ie, the ones that actually give a shit.
asciilifeform: and it isn't as if all the currently existing ones are pets in good homes. e.g,
assbot: Logged on 07-05-2014 03:02:32; mircea_popescu: if you have 20 bux spare you'll get a manicure, maybe you find some guy that's not an asshoel.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, it occurs to me : clearly the femspeak for male being "sociopath", ie, one who does not care about the consequences (this is the basis of the rape debate - men will fuck women for a cause, women wish to fuck towards a purpose), and the problem with "women in tech" being the aridity of the field to the femstyle,
assbot: Logged on 07-05-2014 03:00:40; mircea_popescu: this is like having a 40 yo chick come to you for dancing lessons and you telling her "missing ingredient is you being 20". why tyvm, mr expert guy!
mircea_popescu: how long before the current processor (that acts from cause) is replaced with a new architecture, more femfriendly ?
mircea_popescu: a processor that looks at what the EFFECTS of a computation would be
mircea_popescu: rather than proceed from an imperative cause towards a computation
mircea_popescu: you know, alligned with the entire irigaray " e = mc^2 is a sexed equation"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is ahead of the game as usual:
asciilifeform: this -was made-
mircea_popescu: lacan & co efforts to build an alt-physics didn't manage to do much, but mebbe it works in alt-cs?
asciilifeform: it is called 'lazy evaluation' and is sop in the academiplague languages
asciilifeform: haskell, ml, the shebang
mircea_popescu: well good for them!
mircea_popescu: all is right with the world then.
asciilifeform: urbit, incidentally.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, all the proper females ARE pets in good homes. the remainder are like unemployed "employees" that are not so much unemployed as wilfully *unemployable*.
mircea_popescu: not that admission is likely forthcoming.
asciilifeform: it is a uniquely mind-destroying paradigm, also, because it makes reasoning about actual cost of execution on actual hardware virtually impossible.
mircea_popescu: cost is a figment of the scarcity world.
mircea_popescu: they transcended that.
mircea_popescu: enter the world of abundance!
asciilifeform: next step is 'breatharian diet.'
asciilifeform: i wish them a speedy arrival at this step.
Chillum: "all the proper females ARE pets in good homes"... ever had a wife?
mircea_popescu: are you saying the emperor's naked ?
mircea_popescu: Chillum nope.
mircea_popescu: you married ?
Chillum: well I do, and she is proper and not a pet
asciilifeform: wai wat
mircea_popescu: do you get along with her ?
Chillum: yup
asciilifeform: who, then, is the pet
mircea_popescu: meets my definition of proper pet in good home.,
Chillum: we have 2 cats
Chillum: so getting along with someone makes them a pet? I think you skipped some logical steps there
mircea_popescu: you think the cats are your pets ?!
asciilifeform: Chillum: why do you describe her as 'not a pet' ?
whaack: BingoBoingo: I actually just never got the email that I needed to verify with. Reregistered and I still don't have the email.
mircea_popescu: Chillum likely you just use the term in a particular way i don't.
Chillum: asciilifeform: she contributes to the household, our cats do not
Chillum: possibly
Chillum: never known a cat to help pay the rent
mircea_popescu: a pet doesn't have to be idle.
Chillum: work animals != pets
mircea_popescu: what about hamster with wheel ?
BingoBoingo: <Chillum> asciilifeform: she contributes to the household, our cats do not << Do they neglect their anti-vermin duties?
Chillum: barely aware of its own existence
mircea_popescu: everyone is barely aware of their own existence.
mircea_popescu: that's par for the course.
Chillum: sometime on LSD I am acutely aware
mircea_popescu: so they claim.
Chillum: so I claim
Chillum: though it is well established that nobody can prove their own self awareness
mircea_popescu: so if i feed lsd to a cat it's gonna make a good wife ?
Chillum: if you are desperate enough
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 263450 @ 0.00027756 = 73.1232 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: perhaps this was done, and i am lsd cat
mircea_popescu: methinks your theory may have some holes in it.
Chillum: if she is a pet then so am I
mircea_popescu: good for you. what of it ?
trinque: asciilifeform | perhaps this was done, and i am lsd cat << LOL
Chillum: I suppose your advantage in this debate comes from your failure to define what you think pet means
mircea_popescu: but i did, above.
mircea_popescu: "do you get along with her ?"
asciilifeform: Chillum: a tame creature you keep around because enjoy its company.
Chillum: that is a very wide definition
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't subscribe to alf's definitino.
mircea_popescu: Chillum so it's wide.
Chillum: the thing is
mircea_popescu: it happens to exactly match the earlier female survival discussion.
Chillum: my wife is not tame
Chillum: she is very wild
mircea_popescu: ever showed her this place ?
asciilifeform: then perhaps Chillum is the pet ?
Chillum: mircea_popescu: she would not get it
Chillum: I don't get it
Chillum: I am not tame either. I am insidious
Chillum: I play tame
asciilifeform: my pet is following along this thread.
mircea_popescu: aha. well, ima eat, but brb.
asciilifeform: speaking of eating...
Chillum: on the internet, nobody knows you are a dog
asciilifeform goes to eat things
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 272500 @ 0.00027614 = 75.2482 BTC [-] {4}
whaack: /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER whaack aiufgzrktdck
whaack: /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER whaack aiufgzrktdck
mats: go on
whaack: sry
trinque: lol
Chillum: fail
trinque: ahahahaha
Chillum: good password though
Chillum: did you memorize it?
hanbot: shitty pw. no numbers no nothing.
trinque: hanbot: all I see over here is *******
hanbot: get better passwwords.
Chillum: there are 26 letters and 10 numbers. Number have less entropy
hanbot: letter W has most legs, best password WWWWWWW
trinque: whaack: so I might have a theory on why you can't keep your nicks
Chillum: 10^26 = 1.1447546×10²⁸ enough entropy for a remote service
hanbot: if there's 10^26 bits of entropy in that thing I will eat someone's pet.
Chillum: using numbers only adds entropy when you randomly selecty them from the same set as the letters
whaack: that's not a password
whaack: that's the verification code for my email
Chillum: oh lol
mats: jesus, reading your text makes my face hurt Chillum
Chillum: been so long since I registered
hanbot: ah.
Chillum: well, you could move your face away from me if that helps
whaack: i use word lists for passwords, i have a decent understanding of information theory
Chillum: good to know
Chillum: given that the code in question was a machine generated e-mail verification code I would say you should start eating someones pet
BingoBoingo: mats: Did you sleep yet?
hanbot: is this entropy-logic?
mats: about to
Chillum: though the vowel consonant grouping is a bit suspicious
BingoBoingo: hanbot: Entropy logic is patent GBBG by Google Images of AusieDude and GrumpySpamLady. License available with Founder shares, pls buy...
Chillum: I saw a nice talk about a password creator that created small sentence fragments from very long lists of words. The user could enter the words in any order and with known mispellings and it would still pass. All while making sure you get the requested entropy
Chillum: the idea is that humans can remember more entropy when it is in a story form
Chillum: we can remember concepts at much higher information levels than random strings
trinque: neat concept
whaack: I'm sure you've seen
assbot: xkcd: Password Strength ... ( )
Chillum: I thought so
hanbot: BingoBoingo, lol
Chillum: correct horse battery staple
Chillum: the bitcoin brain wallet with a lot of deposits and withdrawls
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Probably could be stronger if you take a sentence from Kritik de Rheinen Vernuft and replace 10 of he words in sentence with diceware determined words.
Chillum: it could be stronger if you asked it for more entropy. It creates the password with the entropy you request
BingoBoingo: Sentence from kritik provides structure to remember words with.
Chillum: I suppose "search space" is more accurate than entropy
Chillum: I see
Chillum: so you could remember more
BingoBoingo: full sentence not typed into box, just the dice words.
BingoBoingo: Sentence can go on for pages i Kritiq so password box would hate you over full sentence.
Chillum: the amount of information someone and relay to a sketch artist about a persons face is in the hundreds of Kb, but our brain has hardware acceleration for faces and we can't normalize the data ourselves
Chillum: any password system with a character limit should die
BingoBoingo: Sure, but do you really want to make poor password checker hash all of that German?
Chillum: It would be neat if we could hack our face detection brain hardware to do something else like we have hacked graphics cards for hashing
BingoBoingo: Graphics cards were never really "hacked for hashing" Bitcoin just came along on the exact time AMD graphics cards came into their own as massively parallel compute devices
Chillum: like a computer shows something similar to a face while monitoring your brainwaves and harvesting your computational data
Chillum: umm long before bitcoin they were hashing passwords with them
Chillum: and it was a hack
Chillum: they had to rewrite the hashing algos to use the available features
BingoBoingo: Hah, a hack is when you use a pck of dragonfly brains in parallel to acelerate the search for good porn.
Chillum: I love how many cheap used GPUs are being sold by miners who got on the bus late
Chillum: makes password hashing cheaper
Chillum: a lot of ebay auctions for top of the line video cards saying "Bought it for bitcoin mining, asics came out"
Chillum: though you roll the dice on used cards
whaack: I'm confused as to why anyone would care about using GPUs to hash passwords
BingoBoingo: whaack: To search for passwords against a lsit of hashes of course
whaack: ah :D
BingoBoingo: whaack: GPUs to password has is the solution when you don't have access to person with password and an anthill
BingoBoingo: << I wonder if Tesla is going to market sane NiFe to homeowners or instead going to create the greatest national fire hazard in history. Basement is probably the worst place for a massive battery bank and lithium worst way to do it.
assbot: Does going “off the grid” actually help the climate? | Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists ... ( )
mircea_popescu: Chillum so do you ever pet her ?
Chillum: I don't pet and tell
Chillum: but we are married, you do the math
mircea_popescu: i suppose we could put the string through teh entropy tests... but no, doesn't look like it's 8/8.
mircea_popescu: anyway, re narrative pws : that's how wikileaks managed to lose control of a db, innit.
mircea_popescu: humans are great at telling stories and horrible at telling anything but the same ones.
Chillum: "I went out the door and got my mail" <-- terrible... "If I went to the market I would buy bananas and then go south to the dry cleaner" much better
mircea_popescu: Chillum re face etc : pretty sure future is in wetware.
mircea_popescu: and no, not much better.
Chillum: wetware is an interesting idea but the further we go in technology the less likely it seems to be
mircea_popescu: something off trilema, somewhat better. otherwise... recall that klingon line pw that got got ?
Chillum: I doubt you could guess it
mircea_popescu: how do you reason ?
mircea_popescu: well i don't hack pws, so that's a safe bet.
Chillum: I do
Chillum: by wetware do you mean human brains assisting computers, or do you mean biological computers?
Chillum: early in computer science it was believed that computers were like brains and that with enough resources they could simulate one. As we progress it becomes more and more clear that brains are nothing like a computer
Chillum: and that the best way to simulate a brain with a computer is to simulate atoms, ie not very efficient
mircea_popescu: i mean biological compouters
mircea_popescu: the ancient thread is re dragonflies
Chillum: oh well that is another story
Chillum: bilogocial computers are on the way
Chillum: probably memory first
mircea_popescu: perhaps.
mircea_popescu: but yeah, brain nothing like computer.
Chillum: Amazon web services just announced cloud machine learning
Chillum: so skynet is basically here
Chillum: it seems skynet is mostly interesting in the status quo
mircea_popescu: "Basement is probably the worst place for a massive battery bank and lithium worst way to do it." << word.
Chillum: I am wracking my brain to think of a good use for machine learning, I like to play with all the new AWS toys
mircea_popescu: ESPECIALLY in shitty vinyl siding and "insulation" concotions on "light" (= cheap wood and glue pressboard) frames.
mircea_popescu: !up SquirtPrincess
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I mean fire's favorite direction is up. That and Lithium batteries have a shit lifetime anyways.
mircea_popescu: yeah you can prolly get some pretty major combustihouse events.
Chillum: lith-ion batteries are electrical, chemical and metal fires
Chillum: you do not want to try to smother them or throw anything on them at all
Chillum: they provide their own oxygen
BingoBoingo imagines NiFe in shitty rusted file cabinets in the shed with the lawnmower is a much better place
Chillum: very toxic fumes too
Chillum: basically just run
mircea_popescu: Chillum im not so sure the aws "machine learning" works much better than sussman's tic tac toe machine
Chillum: it is the same thing they use in house
Chillum: to market to people
Chillum: it has its limits but it find patterns in a way not other computer technology can
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo still, will need a lot.
Chillum: it is really good at recognizing suspicious transactions once it has seen enough good and bad ones
mircea_popescu: Chillum from what i hear it's the same process they use to "detect terrorism" nowadays.
mircea_popescu: not so sure it does anything, but hey.
Chillum: the tech has improved only a little(mostly optimizations) since machine learning was invented
Chillum: but the resources it has are enormous
Chillum: it gives you a score which you take with a grain of salt. It is designed to be better than random, not perfect
mircea_popescu: "ascii_field: the only thing i can promise for the $trillion is: more material for the next fella to work with" << oddly, this sounds exactly like social studies.
mircea_popescu: and you're not even black!
Chillum: say you have sent out 10,000 spams to people and 200 answered. You put all the info about those people into it and who answer and who did not. It can then be given a list of other people with the same kind of information and figure out who is more likely to respond
Chillum: and all with no concept of what the information actually means
Chillum: there are probably less evil applications too
mircea_popescu: your list is too small to work.
Chillum: that depends on how clear the pattern is
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sure. but even place with indications of value can hold a lot.
Chillum: when it comes to responding to spam you are probably right
mircea_popescu: besides, 2% response rate ? web advertising does a lot of fraud to come up to 0.1-0.3% CTR.
mircea_popescu: that would be 10-20 people in the 10k.
mircea_popescu: << at this rate he's gonna start work on cardano any day now!
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:29:20; trinque: chart a course towards the smallest of them, and towards selling it as well
Chillum: it was an example
Chillum: the number were chosen for simplicity
mircea_popescu: jus' sayin'.
Chillum: I thought that was obvious
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Lithium batteries are like forest fires. You can try to contain the damage by keeping them from spreading. Also sand is an extinguishing option.
mircea_popescu: does sand do anything even ?
Chillum: BingoBoingo: the sand is mostly about preventing molten metal from flying out. It does not smother it because it has its own oxygen
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It turns into a crude glass and absorbs heat energy in the course of that. Worthless if on wooden desk, pretty useful if on bare concrete
Chillum: my dad was a fireman so he is always talking about this stuff
Chillum: yes it does absorb heat too
Chillum: which contains but does not extinguish
mircea_popescu: phase transition, makes sense.
BingoBoingo wants to acquire firetruck and not sound like an idiot, reads so that when day somes will not seem like complete idiot.
mircea_popescu: hey, you should volunteer
mircea_popescu: i hear they get free sex shows.
Chillum: you just need a reason for the big tank
Chillum: those things are so massive when full of water
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I need to get in far better shape. Volunteers get Illinois "pensions" so very competive.
Chillum: they need to plan their stops
Chillum: some have two steering wheels, on in the front and another in the back for the rear driver
Chillum: rear wheel
mircea_popescu: actually so dangerous to drive half full they never do
mircea_popescu: every usage is a full empty.
Chillum: I was 12 when my dad invited me to come along to a fire. When we got there he made me get out fo the truck then pushed a car away from a fire hydrant with the truck
Chillum: he was _NOT_ gentle
Chillum: so cool
Chillum: the parking breaks were on, it moved anyways. lotta smoke
mircea_popescu: srsly, im all for this. no more "park by hydrant" laws, but put those old train pusher things on firetrucks.
mircea_popescu: you park next to one, you take your chances.
BingoBoingo: Both Parents were EMTs at various points in their careers
Chillum: they will either ram your car with their truck, harder than they need to of course
Chillum: or they will break your windows and put the fire hose through your car
Chillum: fire hoses of course pour water out every surface so they don't burn
Chillum: which fills the car
mircea_popescu: tbh, in many european towns it's unheard of to leave brake on when parked.
mircea_popescu: because people WILL NEED TO PUSH YOU AROUND
mircea_popescu: eight billion dints on every car.
Chillum: lol so you get to your parking spot and start search ing the area?
mircea_popescu: sometimes find car two streets over.
BingoBoingo: In present vehicle's previous life as rental car parking break cable became welded in engaged position. Mechanic corrected situation with bolt cutters.
Chillum: buttslol - creamy01 - a1b2c3d4 - christ people use stupid passwords
Chillum loves nummy low hanging fruit
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:38:00; ascii_field: trinque: who was korolev's capitalist ?
BingoBoingo more attracted to firetruck as giant toolbox than as firefighting implement. Also water cannon
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you could just get one of those garden party water cannons
Chillum: lol, the Victoria fire department(different than my dads) got a water canon. First fire they took it out they fired it at a window, missed and knocked down the wall
Chillum: I saw it, so funny
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah, I want serious "get off my lawn" power. Also tilling the garden hydraulicly would be pretty sweet.
mircea_popescu: i mean nuts.
Chillum: BingoBoingo: I saw a device that automatically sprayed water at birds and deer. Modify it a bit and it will work against humanbs
Chillum: replace hose with water canon]
mircea_popescu: have the pets wear chiffon, even better.
Chillum: nutslol
Chillum: the "buttslol" password is from a lulu lemon show, they sell the spanks that make girls ass look good when they are not
Chillum: s/show/shop/
Chillum: false advertising
Chillum: you take them home, get the spanks off and WTF?!
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:43:08; ascii_field: trinque: the normal paradigm of investment and return fails here
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:43:33; ascii_field: because the only approach that i believe to be correct, will result in something tangible only long after we are all dead.
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Edging back garden with peppers handles deer/birds usually. As do the coyotes/feral cats. Getting drunk and pissing in yard handles coyotes.
BingoBoingo: !up propumpkin
mircea_popescu: decimation the guy only died recently.
Chillum: I used to do a bit of deep forest gardening. I would use capsicum liquid all over to keep the deer away
Chillum: also piss everywhere
BingoBoingo: Chillum: This is a rural/Suburban border town. Deer cull very effective here. Now when I lived in Carbondale... Deer raided the garbage dumpsters more than the raccoons did.
Chillum: city deer are nothing like forest deer
BingoBoingo: ;;google SIU Deer attacks
gribble: SIU warns campus about deer attacks - The Daily Illini : News: <>; Three Injured In Deer Attack On SIU's Carbondale Campus | <>; Deer attacking students at SIU - tribunedigital-chicagotribune: < (1 more message)
Chillum: cities really fuck animals up
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Most of Carbondale IS forest
Chillum: ever seen a seagull out in the wild? They are majestic. The city seagulls are vermin
decimation: mircea_popescu: I would note that singapore exhibits all the signs of burning through their 'stored fuel'
Chillum: BingoBoingo: I see
mircea_popescu: myeah, seems they do.
mircea_popescu: Chillum pets included.
Chillum: they behave a lot differently when they become town scavengers
mircea_popescu: jefferson's only major point.
Chillum: humans too
mircea_popescu: "the city sucks"
Chillum: the manner in which a city treats you is directly related to how savvy you are
mircea_popescu: which... it does. they tell legends of women that could suck a golf ball through a garden hose, but new york regularly sucked the jew riding a camel through the eye of a needle.
Chillum: the eye of the needle was a crowded market in a narrow alley
Chillum: it is a very idiomatic saying
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Center of the University campus there is a forest. with nothing more than dirt trails and occasional bridge. Fastest way to get from one side to the other is traversing the woods. Because of USian automobile-subdivision town planning outside of downtown most residential areas are separated by virgin-ish woods
Chillum: The island I am on has logging everywhere but with a 30 year recovery period. So there are logging roads everywhere that are abondoned for the last 10-29 years
Chillum: it is all new growth but there are so many ways away from people if you pick one at random you won't see anyone
decimation: the thing that struck me as weird about the eu (comparied to the us) was how compact little towns are, and how rural the countryside is
Chillum: you just have to be okay with driving over 1 inch this trees
mircea_popescu: this sounds like a grandiose arrangement Chillum
decimation: in the us it's quite normal for shit to be spread out across the countryside
Chillum: to forest gardeners love those roads
Chillum: unauthorized access
mircea_popescu: charged with "an offense against a computer system"
mircea_popescu: friend computer, fuck you.
trinque: hang him!
Chillum: if he broke into the staff office to change the blackboard it would still be breaking and enetering
Chillum: same thing
mircea_popescu: for one thing, the computer still works. the broken lock does not.
Chillum: using an admin password to log in and changing nothing would be just as illegal
Chillum: you don;'t have to break anything for breaking and entering charges
mircea_popescu: not discussing the legality. discussing the nonsensicality.
Chillum: well don't expect sense in law
Chillum: well prepare to be regularly disappointed
decimation: it would be interesting to know exactly what they are charging him with
decimation: being as how the journalist is likely retarded
Chillum: decimation: probably unauthorized access
decimation: trespass?
Chillum: it is from some computer law from the 80s or 90s
Chillum: still used today, meant to be a catch all for something too complex to put any thought into
Chillum: capturing a WPA packet legal, cracking password from that packet legal, logging into the network - criminal unauthorized access
trinque: so how about this is a teenage male pulling a prank
Chillum: I would hope that the sentence reflect the seriousness of the crime... 48 hours probation and a stern "Don't do it again!"
trinque: yeah, or just someone smack him and move on
mircea_popescu: they're not allowed to.
Chillum: just like if he snuck into the office at night and changed the blackboard, a silly prank, still illegal, light sentence appropriate
mircea_popescu: Chillum when i was about that age kids got all uppity ran lard all over blackboard.
Chillum: I think defendants should be allowed to permit the offended party to smack them in lue of charges
mircea_popescu: (old style, actual chalk)
mircea_popescu: teacher throw a fit. culprit could never be found.
mircea_popescu: different people.
mircea_popescu: it's in lieu.
Chillum: ah thanks
assbot: lue - Wiktionary ... ( )
Chillum: a "flame" or a "tuque"
Chillum: not what I meant
Chillum: that is why my spell checker did not warn me
Chillum: at least I did not say "loo"(british for toilet)
Chillum: I am feeling a little hyper today
Chillum: too much coffee
assbot: PASCOCLERK.COM - Home ... ( )
trinque: florida's public school system is skewed by the number of criminals in the state generally
decimation: for one thing, I doubt he's being charged for a felony as a juvenile
decimation: Pasco County Clerk Dr. O'Neil holds a Doctorate in Philosophy in Applied Management and Decision Sciences, and is a Certified Public Manager,
trinque: holy shit decision sciences.
trinque: guy's a decider
decimation: she's a woman, her mug is plastered on the webpage
trinque: man, that's a smile headed for mediocre state bureaucracy someday
decimation: !up zooko
zooko: Oh hey, thanks.
mircea_popescu: a...what
zooko: I discovered this channel because of
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wut
mircea_popescu: teaches me to bitch at dwarves for their dubious tech choices.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which yo funks! can i rewad that yet ?
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... oddly, this sounds exactly like social studies. << astronomy/astrology. note how useful -legit- astronomy was for most of its history.
mircea_popescu: very. VERY.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... stalin << aha, who else
decimation: asciilifeform: by "nobody solves problems at google" I assume you mean in the "from first principles" sense?
mircea_popescu: its not altogether clear what all happens at google.
mircea_popescu: on one hand, their patent inability to come up with anything worth the mention since adwords would be concerning. on the other hand, naggum's observation that you wouldn't know smarter than you if it hit you on the head holds a lot of water.
mircea_popescu: !up Cummerbund
decimation: I suspect what happens at google: many people write and re-write the same bits of software
Cummerbund: In three different stacks
mircea_popescu: dude... somewhere there must be a lawyer who legally changed his name to
mircea_popescu: Best Lawyers von Court
mircea_popescu: Cummerbund who're you ?
decimation: are you from the uk?
Cummerbund: William Dunne, I embarrassed myself here previously.
decimation: it's a bit late there isn't it?
Cummerbund: Yes, I typically work Australian hours
Chillum: it is not hard to embarrass yourself here, everyone here is always right
Chillum: it has happened to me several times
Cummerbund: It was more naivety before learning what needs to be learned, so rightly I was embarrassed (As opposed to just wrong)
whaack: I interned at Google in NYC
decimation: whaack: did you write in go?
whaack: Nope
mircea_popescu: malbolge ?
asciilifeform: decimation: i did not say that nobody solves problems at 'google.' merely that no one is hired to 'solve problem.' rather, folks are hired as fungible meat robots.
whaack: Googlified javascript
decimation: asciilifeform: right, meat robot is given perimeter in which to work
asciilifeform: more to the point, anyone hired with a public advertisement in reference to particular programming languages is hired as meatrobot
asciilifeform: regardless of the pay
whaack: (It's javascript with static type checking)
asciilifeform: 'hired to solve problem' means that you are theoretically free to do it with a computer made of trained squirrels pushing trinary equations, so long as this fits the constraints set by the client.
decimation: asciilifeform: by that definition, nearly everybody working 'in tech' today is a slave
asciilifeform: decimation: it is all a matter of what constraints you are willing to work in
assbot: Re: On comparing apples and oranges (was: Q: on hashes and counting) - Naggum cll archive ... ( )
decimation: asciilifeform: what fascinates me is the fact that even the higher management who is nominally 'free' find themselves enslaves to apple's paradigm (for example, making iphone clones)
asciilifeform: 'Using such inferior languages is like asking a chef who could have done wonders with any kind of raw materials, to use a dirty kitchen, a broken refrigerator with food that is about to die a second time, broken tools, and brownish tap water that tasted of swamp land. His first task would be to clean up the place. Creating food in there would be the furthest from his mind. That's how I feel about Perl and C++. I prefer to
asciilifeform: call it "good taste", not "tunnel vision".'
asciilifeform: decimation: the brass are among the least-free
asciilifeform: decimation: they answer to the lizards.
asciilifeform: or - worse - to the chump market.
decimation: well, to be clear, the chump market as represented by wall street fund managers
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ehg for all you know working at google is essentially having to report on this private irc server twice a week
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have (or rather had) a mole there.
mircea_popescu: i meant meta-google
mircea_popescu gets last chuckle.
asciilifeform: meta-google - aha.
decimation: yeah who are the lizards who run google?
mircea_popescu: but srsly, i can't for the life of me imagine a different way to run a tech corp these days.
asciilifeform: (consists, naturally, of a miniature google circa 2001 preserved in amber)
mircea_popescu: totally ruined for "VC" bs.
mircea_popescu: (vc here means videoconf)
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ yo.
mircea_popescu: !up funkenstein_
asciilifeform: eh, video is not the innermost circle of hell
decimation: funkenstein_: congrats on getting groupies
mircea_popescu: so when do i get to read your pdf ?
assbot: “The Majority is Enough” | Free your Frass ... ( )
funkenstein_: much hullabaloo over not much content
funkenstein_: but hey i learned .. thanks ::)
mircea_popescu: usually how it goes.
funkenstein_: since vixra comes up again here's one of the other great things you can find there
funkenstein_: oh crap pdf again
asciilifeform: 'One of the reasons I stayed at JPL for twelve years was that I was appalled at what the software industry had become. The management world has tried to develop software engineering processes that allow people to be plugged into them like interchangeable components. The "interface specification" for these "components" usually involves a list of tools in which an engineer has received "training." (I really detest the use of the
asciilifeform: word "training" in relation to professional activities. Training is what you do to dogs. What you should be doing with people is educating them, not training them. There is a big, big difference.) To my mind, the hallmark of the interchangeable component model of software engineers is Java. Without going into too many details, I'll just say that having programmed in Lisp the shortcomings of Java are glaringly obvious, and pro
asciilifeform: gramming in Java means a life of continual and unremitting pain. So I vowed I would never be a Java programmer, which pretty much shut me out of 90% of all software engineering jobs in the late 90's. This was OK since I was managing to put together a reasonably successful career as a researcher. But after Remote Agent I found myself more and more frustrated, and the opportunity to work at Google just happened to coincide with
asciilifeform: a local frustration maximum. ... One of the reasons I decided to go work for Google was that they were not using Java. So of course you can guess what my first assignment was: lead the inaugural Java development at the company, what eventually became Google AdWords. ... And that was the end of Lisp at Google. In retrospect I am not convinced that he made the wrong decision. The interchangeable component model of software engin
asciilifeform: eers seemed to work reasonably well there. It's just not a business model in which I wish to be involved, at least not on the component-provider side. So after a year at Google I quit and returned to JPL.' << the once well-known erann gatt, aka ron garrett.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^
asciilifeform: re: fungible engineers.
asciilifeform: (classic piece)
Cummerbund: You guys' all remind me how terrible my writing skills are. Nice post funkenstein_
mircea_popescu: bad writing is just the outside manifestation of a dysfunctional mind.
decimation: asciilifeform: but does working as a usg employee at jpl really free him from java hell?
asciilifeform: decimation: it did. for a while, anyway.
asciilifeform: decimation: i have no idea what kind of hell he is presently roasting in. ask'im.
funkenstein_: thanks mate
mircea_popescu: someone should write a sf piece about a deranged capitalist who deliberately buys up software outfits to torture the engineers.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was written already, in a parallel universe where this was not the actuality.
decimation: mircea_popescu: of course, most of the actual slave driving is directly done by.. engineers in management
Cummerbund: mircea_popescu: Do you mean if the subject matter is poor? I'm merely referring to sentence structure. I would at least like to pretend that the subject matter is okay
assbot: "Bitcoin Baron" Vigilante Vandal Caught | ... ( )
mircea_popescu: Cummerbund just tweaking your chain a little.
asciilifeform: in reality, the whole thing is a game-theoretical boojum
asciilifeform: men-as-fungible-parts ends up 'winning', at least in the short term.
mircea_popescu: a vigilante vandal ? v is prolly very jealous.
decimation: asciilifeform: just like 'first-to-market-crapware' is also a short term winning strategy
mircea_popescu: i don;t think "men as parts" is actually all that good.
asciilifeform: 'On April 9, a search warrant was served at Tucker's home and a computer had an operating system used by hackers, DPS said.'
mircea_popescu: ^ ubuntu.
asciilifeform: terroruntu.
decimation: I suspect the 'men-as-parts' strategy is primarily implemented by the aforementioned engineer managers with poor social skills
asciilifeform: naggum's 'managing an unskilled labor force means easy access to people who are skilled in whatever is needed right now, not an investment in people -- which leads to the conclusion that a programmer is only as valuable as his ability to get another job fast.'
assbot: Re: Is LISP dying? - Naggum cll archive ... ( )
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, in general tech seems to be managed on a 'what have done for me lately' basis
asciilifeform: but the basic idea is as old as the industrial nunneries of the 19th c.
funkenstein_ can't wrap head around node.js program flow
asciilifeform: or the replacement of slavery with wage slavery in general.
asciilifeform: why invest in people when you can catch them in the wild, use them until spent, throw out.
funkenstein_: sounds like an investment
asciilifeform: when any approach other than arbeit macht frei is made countereconomic, don't be surprised when you get arbeit macht frei.
assbot: A piece of cake on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
asciilifeform: ;;isitup
gribble: Error: "isitup" is not a valid command.
asciilifeform: ;;isup
decimation: asciilifeform: european welfare statism is fucktarded, but they do have a degree of escape from this treadmill
gribble: is down
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^
asciilifeform: decimation: escape ?
decimation: they can't be easily fired, generally treated with a degree of 'tenure'
decimation: 'they' being industrial positions in germany, etc
asciilifeform: escape 'from frying pan to fire,' this.
decimation: asciilifeform: they have an 'apprenticeship' system in germany too
asciilifeform: decimation: my understanding is that germany, like japan, had a few living scraps of functional tradition survive the 20th c. woodchipper
asciilifeform: unlike the english world, for example
asciilifeform: one of the reason the english nailed them with such vengeance, trashing the entire planet in the process
asciilifeform: it was the envy of the crippled ephialtes, who knows exactly what he is, for the healthy spartans.
asciilifeform: specifically as pictured in the film, even.
asciilifeform: !s ephialtes
assbot: 11 results for 'ephialtes' :
decimation: asciilifeform: it even manifested physically
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2015 04:18:04; decimation: the 'forced exercise' idea reminds me of a passage in the 'rise and fall of the third reich': "The young in the Third Reich were growing up to have strong and healthy bodies, faith in the future of their country and in themselves and a sense of fellowship and camaraderie that shattered all class and economic and social barriers. I thought of that later, in the May days of 1940, when along the road betwee
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2015 04:18:05; decimation: the contrast between the German soldiers, bronzed and clean-cut from a youth spent in the sunshine on an adequate diet, and the first British war prisoners, with their hollow chests, round shoulders, pasty complexions and bad teeth – tragic examples of the youth that England had neglected so irresponsibly in the years between the wars."
asciilifeform: very much this.
asciilifeform: the english got a massive head start by having been the inventors of the turn-people-into-industrial-feedstock thing.
decimation: imagine being one of these young germans at dunkirk, watching the sad sacks from britianna derp around
asciilifeform: notably, this -required- widespread misery of a kind superficially unrelated to industry, to make industry practical
assbot: Logged on 24-11-2014 23:13:14; asciilifeform: ultimately, being a builder of industry at the 1917 (or even today's) tech level, fundamentally sucks. as in, the same way being in prison sucks. so stalin et. al. tried experiment: what if being a peasant sucked -more- ? and - it worked.
asciilifeform: i will not re-tell the 'vagrancy laws' thing here, it is amply covered in the literature.
decimation: as in 'if the peasants don't want to work in the factory - starve them until they do?'
asciilifeform: but short version is that to have 'volunteers' for english industry, they turned their countryside into the closest thing possible at their tech level to an open air gulag
decimation: 'poor house' workshops?
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 01:35:08; mircea_popescu: btw, anyone know how cockney got to be called that ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's again put it in terms of sex. given the choice does it seem a better strategy to keep long term warm intimate relations with a long list of sluts, or does it seem more workable to just keep the yellow pages close and hope the massage salon person understands what you mean ?
asciilifeform: depends on what you have to work with, no ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah i know, i'll be suing a dc, moving the thing etc.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean "have to work with" ?
decimation: mircea_popescu: is this related to the dcma thing?
mircea_popescu: the us legal system has managed to put anyone trying to provide services into this position of "fucked either way".
mircea_popescu: not that i care, i'll be making money on this deal, but from a systemic perspective it sucks.
decimation: usg enjoys forcing everyone to be an agent
asciilifeform: what do you mean "have to work with" ? << some folks can afford a palace and a stable of pets to cultivate therein; others - yellow pages, when they get 'bonus' salary. on holidays.
asciilifeform: this is like asking which is better to get, a 'boeing' or a 'trabant.'
mircea_popescu: decimation sadly usg is not directly involved. this is more "let's make vague laws to satisfy an abstruse expectation of good". the only result is, whenever contrary interests meet, the provider is caught in the middle.
mircea_popescu: but hey, not my country not my problem.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yet women live on average on a dollar a day.
asciilifeform: where? the congo ?
mircea_popescu: average means average.
mircea_popescu: 3.8bn of them
asciilifeform: let's calculate the average cock count then.
asciilifeform: while at it
decimation: 'trabant' can transport you 1,000 miles, kind of
asciilifeform: wait till you think, what legs can do
mircea_popescu: cock count ?
asciilifeform: aha. average income, average number of cocks, arms, legs...
asciilifeform: on a body
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu has a point here, in that a pet does not -cost- very much per se
asciilifeform: but you still -need to be powerful- to keep a harem. in that you need the 'extra electron shells' to attract it with.
asciilifeform: (is PeterL around? i bet he'd appreciate this image)
mircea_popescu: competent women do not actually cost money.
asciilifeform readily believes this
mircea_popescu: this isn't strictly chillum's "she helps with the rent". recall convo re 40k ?
asciilifeform: and they don't 'cost' power, but you need it
asciilifeform remembers -exactly- which tread
asciilifeform: *thread
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2015 01:19:34; mircea_popescu: "she's been going through 6-7k each month since autumn, but i get to go visit p diddy whenever i feel like it. it's a wash"
mircea_popescu: and it's unclear they actually need anything. slim is the controlling example. chick empowered bogart.
Chillum: competent women make money
Chillum: and support you in crazy ideas
mircea_popescu: in strict contrast to the woman he had before, that bogged him down.
asciilifeform: anyway, i'll concern myself with this detail soon after i decide whether to use xenon or argon in the maneuvering ion engines for my mars lander.
mircea_popescu: Chillum exactly.
Chillum: I admit though, I went through a lot of shit women before I found a good one
Chillum: they are fucking rare
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's relevant support. the support of people you're not intimate with is worth about as much as the word of people not in the wot.
Chillum: I did not even consider getting married till I met someone who would not try to control me but rather support my bond villain like ambitions
asciilifeform: and support in what sense?
mircea_popescu: wiki dude with bond villain ambitions ?
mircea_popescu: impossibru.
Chillum: lulz
Chillum: it is true
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very simply like so :
asciilifeform: in the 'someone gives a fuck if you come back from the front' sense ?
mircea_popescu: "hey, feel like going to prison tonight ?" "sure."
mircea_popescu: some people have to explain to the wife why they're in jail.
asciilifeform: 'friend helps you move furniture. true friend helps you move body.' -- traditional american proverb
Chillum: I am a wiki dude because I have bond villian like ambitions. One needs to control information, being a wikipedia admin is a good start
mircea_popescu: some other people have to see which common mistress is awake to bail the couple out.
mircea_popescu: Chillum if that thing's information i'm a sort of misunderstood pope.
decimation: Chillum: is there anyone 'working' on wikipedia who doesn't want to 'control information'?
asciilifeform: Chillum: may as well take over a psych ward to get at the valuable napoleons therein
asciilifeform: for geopolitical ambitions.
Chillum: lulz
Chillum: triple response
Chillum: Mr. Pope, information is always manipulated
mircea_popescu: not every string is information.
mircea_popescu: not every roadkill's a live dog.
asciilifeform: 'information is a difference that makes a difference' -- also traditional
Chillum: tell me with a straight face that this article has no information:
assbot: Jupiter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( )
decimation: if the nazis won wwii, one wonders what the 'nazi wikipedia' would look like
Chillum: not everything is crap, about .003% is pretty good
asciilifeform: decimation: mr mold had a piece on this
mircea_popescu: Chillum you're gonna control information about jupiter ?
decimation: asciilifeform: aye
Chillum: mircea_popescu: If I must
mats: can't sleep, gremlins will eat me
decimation: Chillum: that's because nobody gives a fuck about jupiter
asciilifeform: decimation: he concluded - in my view, correctly - that a senile 3rd reich would look quite like today's senile 4th
Chillum: and any other planet that gets in the way of my plans!!
mircea_popescu: mats sounds promising, buy moar guns.
mod6: happy birthday s.mpoe
Chillum: decimation: as an astronomy enthusiast I disagree most firmly
Chillum: Jupiter is very popular
mircea_popescu: o hey nice mod6
mircea_popescu: Chillum i don't think that's the shade of caring he had in mind.
decimation: indeed not
Chillum: We admins have a saying over on the private wikipedia admin channel: Gurer vf ab pnony
mircea_popescu: decimation it would be all straight edges and very fucking stolid.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how familiar you are with 1930s german art - but it's pretty damned bad.
mircea_popescu: actually ... it's pretty much incipient socialism realism. perhaps a little better. not much.
decimation: my most direct expsoure was the 'bauhouse' letters used to teach me reading
mircea_popescu: the soviets copied EVERYTHING.
mircea_popescu: bauhaus on the cheap = soviet prefab flats. from berlin to pakistan.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eh there was a good bit of 2-way
mircea_popescu: perhaps. in the sense the russians mounted it all on oxcarts.
decimation: yeah I can see that. purified into 'brutalism' in post war communist europe
mircea_popescu: which i must say for dali, and he'd have said it if he thought of it first : fucking genius.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: << example. massive mega-historical-derp re: whether nazi stole an iconic song, 'aviators' march', from su, or vice-versa
mircea_popescu: Chillum intel says your 0.003% figure actually very likely accurate.
asciilifeform: actually i have a small experimental verification
asciilifeform: of this figure.
Chillum: lol I made that number up based on experience
assbot: The Gizmo Report: WikiReader--simple, singular - CNET ... ( )
Chillum: we have piles of crap, and then we have stuff we selected as core subjects to get attention
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is there anything you didn't buy ?
asciilifeform: it has a copy of the ascii portion of wikipedia snapshot circa year of production
Chillum: the philosophy is get it first, make it good later. Though much never gets attention again
mircea_popescu: i wish to see the female alf. and her shoe collection.
asciilifeform: and a 'random' toggle
asciilifeform: about 0.003 % is the fraction of the time i get something worth reading.
mircea_popescu: Chillum the philosophy is that you can aggregate meaning out of contextless snippets, by using self-propelled monkeys. this is so much nonsense.
Chillum: but we use categories to deliminate the different quality articles. Our "good article" category is significantly larger than any print encyclopedia
Chillum: mircea_popescu: self propelled humans
mircea_popescu: also significantly not either usable or an encyclopedia.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a man-portable encyclopaedia (and Forth interpreter!) that runs on two batteries for several years and does not need the net seemed like a good idea.
mircea_popescu: no dude. humans have better stuff to do.
decimation: there's a few ounces of wine in the turd-soup
asciilifeform: (in practice it is very physically arduous to use)
mircea_popescu: the wiki people are definitorily subhuman.
asciilifeform: i would pay 10x for a version sans the garbage
Chillum: and seriously an article at the final level of completion is pretty damn good by the standards of any encyclopedia
asciilifeform: but there is no such 'pedia'
Chillum: articles like Earth and Mass
Chillum: core subjects
asciilifeform: there is 'britannica' circa 1958 - the most complete edition - which i own
Chillum: once politics, or people get involved
asciilifeform: but it is not man-portable.
Chillum: it is a shitfest
mircea_popescu: Chillum again, that an elephant which counts to three is pretty great as far as elephants go does not make this a mathematical discussion.
mircea_popescu: wikipedia is not "pretty good by the standards of any encyclopedia", it is "pretty good by the standards of any encyclopedia that were not an encyclopedia but a wikipedia instead"
Chillum: again you make a point and I strain to understand what it has to do with the conversation
mircea_popescu: this is about as pointless as it sounds.
Chillum: The article "Earth" is better than the same article in any other encyclopedia
Chillum: our finished articles are good
Chillum: our works in progess are shit and we know it
mircea_popescu: an encyclopedia, fundamentally, imposes a political hierarchy upon the world, and that of a known and verifiable pedigree.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> i wish to see the female alf. and her shoe collection. << lol, 'i wish to meet the female chingis khan and her sheep collection'
Chillum: that is what an encylopedia is
mircea_popescu: this is what an encyclopedia is. not a piling of "information", as the acultural imagine.
mircea_popescu: but a list of the correctness of a culture.
mircea_popescu: very. VERY. different.
mircea_popescu: which is why d'alembert's is d'alembert's, and why it turned europe upside down
Chillum: do you you object to how Wikipedia has made an encyclopedia or the concept of an encyclopedia itself?
mircea_popescu: whereas wikipedia whines about not having 5k to pay for servers, and nurtures inferiority complexes @ google and everyone else.
Chillum: they have plenty of money for servers
mircea_popescu: i object to the spurious pretense that wikipedia is anyuthing but myspace on white
asciilifeform: a list of the correctness of a culture << precisely. it is a -standards document-
Chillum: for years now
asciilifeform: like a dictionary.
asciilifeform: (a proper dictionary)
Chillum: well it is a serious acedemic project aimed at making the realm of copyrighted free and available to all
Chillum: it is all about making free content
mircea_popescu: Chillum last i saw the begging campaign, it was a very pointed "sucks we can't afford 1/100000000 of what google can"
asciilifeform: which is why 'democratic' encyclopaedia is approximately as valuable as 'democratic' dictionary
Chillum: If the free content isn't good enough, sour lemons for you
mircea_popescu: free content = meaningless drivel.
mircea_popescu: that's not escapable.
Chillum: the begging is super lame, they already have a huge stockpile of donations
mircea_popescu: bitcoin forum is dedicated to making "free bitcoin content" as well.
mircea_popescu: the problem is a lot more obvious there.
mircea_popescu: the reason is that... as decimation points out... nobody gives a shit about wikipedia
Chillum: isn't your bitcoin node free content?
mircea_popescu: not in any sense.
mircea_popescu: it ENFORCES.
Chillum: it is based off of a license that require derivitive works to follow the same license so I think it is\
mircea_popescu: a node is a political outpost.
mircea_popescu: you can think whatever you wish.
Chillum: I do
asciilifeform: Chillum: it is free in the sense that bullets in a border guard's machinegun are 'free.'
Chillum: to do otherwise would be foolish
asciilifeform: yes - they are. free for the taking, if a little hot
mircea_popescu: exactly. free to shoot you with, sure.
Chillum: well it is on a public website for download and based off code with a free license that carries on to derivitive works, so what should I think?
mircea_popescu: that it's spelled derivative.
mircea_popescu: im turning into fucking vragnaroda over here.
asciilifeform: speaking of which...
asciilifeform: does anyone remember the 'igonvalue' [sic] debacle ?
asciilifeform: !s igonvalue
assbot: 0 results for 'igonvalue' :
asciilifeform: !s eigenvalue
assbot: 1 results for 'eigenvalue' :
decimation: lol igonvalue?
mircea_popescu: !s igon value
assbot: 0 results for 'igon value' :
assbot: Urban Dictionary: Igon Value Problem ... ( )
Chillum: mircea_popescu: my spelling is lacking, but I assume you can make out my meaning
mircea_popescu: amusingly, these ignoramuses have branded the memory hole effect too ?
Chillum: I really cannot be bothered to fix every little red line under what I type
mircea_popescu: Chillum yes yes. wasn't a serious criticism that.
Chillum: okay
Chillum: not seriously annoyed either
asciilifeform: not hammering on Chillum here, but the memory was inescapable
mircea_popescu: we had a guy, long ago, that cared. it is to his memory that i dedicate that line.
asciilifeform: there once was/is an american hack writer named gladwell. was published in huge quantities and the drivel was stocked everywhere, for political reasons which i'm still only dimly aware of.
asciilifeform: he was attempting to abuse the very basic mathematical concept of 'eigenvalue', and referred to it, repeatedly, in print as 'igon value'.
asciilifeform: inadvertently revealing that, not only did he sleep in school, but did not even contemplate cracking open a book
asciilifeform: prior to disgorging his turdheaps
asciilifeform: then other hack writers made creative excuses for this stunt
asciilifeform: (instead of sending gladwell to take his rightful place behind the latrine)
Chillum: Did you know that gribble is a real person? Never sleeps, can do bitcoin sigs and PGP in his head.
Chillum: oh wait, just PGP
Chillum: oh crap I meant assbot
Chillum: ruined my joke
Chillum: on a wiki I could fix that
asciilifeform: Chillum: reminds me of an article i read as a boy in some 'mothering/homekeeping' magazine my folks had, about 'should kid thank the elevator'
Chillum: that reminds me of the intelligent elevators in hitchhikers guide the galaxy, and how smug and annoying they were'
asciilifeform: (to clarify, i am not of such vintage as where elevator would have come equipped with a living 'driver')
Chillum: I lived in a shitty building for a while called "The Ritz", ironically
Chillum: they had an old elevator with driver
Chillum: last on in Canad they said
Chillum: they eventually sold the elevator car and motor and used the cash to renovate the whole building, and get a modern elevator
asciilifeform: when i worked, many years ago, at 'nih' in bethesda, maryland - they experimented with reintroducing elevator-drivers. as i understood, it was merely an employment program for the Officially Sad
Chillum: well this one was not busy work, it needed a driver
Chillum: and you could drive it badly if you happen to get your hand on it
asciilifeform: yes, the kind that merely has an up/down toggle
Chillum: not very safe
Chillum: on a lever, the more you moved it the faster it went
asciilifeform: (the mechanism which stops at particular floors was invented long after original 'otis')
Chillum: when it got close to the top or bottom and alarm would sound to tell you to stop
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