Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-04-01 | 2015-04-03 → ↓
asciilifeform: i can hardly imagine the circuit fooling anything but the most dull power analysis device
asciilifeform: considering that solenoid is an inductive load, and resistor is - well - resistive.
asciilifeform: (resistor - no effect on phase)
asciilifeform: think about it.
decimation: heh yeah there's gonna be 'clicks'
asciilifeform: i am inclined to believe that something is missing from the schematic.
asciilifeform: (why? ask him not me)
decimation: apparently there was a 'russian-only' version of the machine: http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/m125_3/rus.htm
assbot: M-125-3M ... ( http://bit.ly/1al8QlS )
asciilifeform: of course there was
asciilifeform: how could there not be.
asciilifeform: http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/psu/img/300125/086/full.jpg << mega-l0l. this, internally, and geometrically - is almost identical to my (u.s.-made) ferroresonant stabilizator.
decimation: yeah, bigass 'autotransformer'
asciilifeform: not same as autotransformer
asciilifeform: relies purely on energy in magnetic field for 'inertia'
decimation: heh even the russian version is a slightly more advanced 'enigma' machine http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/m125_3/index.htm
assbot: M-125-3 ... ( http://bit.ly/1alarYU )
asciilifeform: all the rotor machines were much alike.
asciilifeform: interestingly, vernam (which we today call 'one time pad') coexisted with all of them
asciilifeform: and to the extent folks used it - correctly - their crypto worked.
asciilifeform: but 'omg11111111111111!1!!11!!11 not convenient!!'
decimation: aye, actual humans must handle keys
nubbins`: asciilifeform do you have libssl.so, libcrypto.so on your system? (/usr/lib64, perhaps?)
asciilifeform: to the extent they did not use it (and swiss 'cryptoag' etc marketed rotors until late '80s!! and possibly now) - usg and its merry men had their fun with the payload.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: sure
nubbins`: are they symlinked to .so.1.0.0 like mine are?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: libssl is
nubbins`: and if you: $ openssl version
asciilifeform: i mean, it didn't get pulled in to the static build
asciilifeform: just as it was meant -not- to
asciilifeform: that part works.
nubbins`: hm k
asciilifeform: the attempted ssl was the one included with auto.sh (release)
asciilifeform: it - did not build.
asciilifeform: (see log)
nubbins` sees log
nubbins`: oh ffs
nubbins` sees log1
asciilifeform: decimation: http://www.dansdata.com/gz039.htm << re: ferroresonators
assbot: Power struggle ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzuL1B )
decimation: yeah it's kinda the magnetic equivalent of a bigass flywheel
asciilifeform: more of gigantic pendulum
asciilifeform: if we want an exact analogy
asciilifeform: but yes.
asciilifeform: http://www.dansdata.com/gz083.htm << unrelated but interesting re: ancient 'copy protection'
assbot: Meet the new DRM, same as the old DRM ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzvMa6 )
asciilifeform: ' Then, after the tape had been professionally rewound, you could rent it again, if you liked.'
decimation: that actually sounds pretty effective, assuming the listener didn't have a recorder
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00025344 = 5.2209 BTC [-]
decimation: la wik' seems to imply that the "system 3" punch card was the most densely packed card in common use
decimation: ^could hold 64 byte
decimation: you would still need many of those cards to hold a standard gpg key
asciilifeform: evidently not the one featured in the rhyme;
asciilifeform: 'He died at the console, / Of hunger and thirst. / Next day he was buried, Face down, nine-edge first. / And the last bug in sight, / An ant passing by, / Saluted his tombstone, / And whispered, “Nice try.”'
decimation: one of the reasons why the "PC" was such a success (as in the commodore, etc) was because many universities had taken to putting their computers behind a locked wall
decimation: with strict controls on access
decimation: obviously 'actual people' were not exactly thrilled with the idea of being treated like criminals while calculating
asciilifeform: instrument which costs $maxint - of course locked.
decimation: so there was a hunger to 'own' said machine
asciilifeform: last i checked, i can't waltz in to my local uni and use their mass spectrometer or nmr
asciilifeform: (i asked)
decimation: yeah, similar idea I guess
decimation: but it was made worse because apparently the hippies of the time took to 'attacking' the machines
decimation: because they were seen as a symbol of 'the man'
asciilifeform: decimation: this was not only for computer.
asciilifeform: decimation: my first paying job was at nih. and found it odd that only select few had the clearance to see where the live animals were
asciilifeform: i was told they were under 24/7 heavily armed guard
asciilifeform: underground, behind a tunnel with multiple doors
asciilifeform: but that this had not always been so, and old-timers remembered when you could keep the cages in the lab
asciilifeform: *i found it odd
decimation: yeah because the hippies want to 'set free'
decimation: socialist dumbfuckery is like pollution, it ruins everything
asciilifeform: complicated.
asciilifeform: what was the alternative for these folks?
asciilifeform: i mean, it sounds odd, to ask
decimation: for who, the 'pro-animal' hippie?
asciilifeform: but what -could- they have been doing, that was equally entertaining as setting rabid chimps free ?
decimation: ah. indeed.
asciilifeform: it was yet another generation asked to eat stale doughnuts
asciilifeform: to borrow mr mold's expression
asciilifeform: so they went apeshit when offered chances.
asciilifeform: because still had balls.
asciilifeform: now, for the man who likes physics, maths, etc - it was golden age.
asciilifeform: for instance!
asciilifeform: contrary to popular image of rms, he was - at the time - the very example of a 'straight lace square'
asciilifeform: playing with the 'big iron' at usg expense.
asciilifeform: clean-shaven, even, iirc.
decimation: yeah, the 60's were definitely a golden age of the hard sciences in the us
decimation: many low-hanging fruits were picked
asciilifeform: it is a mistake, to call them low hanging
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 213700 @ 0.00024903 = 53.2177 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: they could be put on the tree today and would stay unpicked.
decimation: perhaps. it's hard not to see things taught to undergrads as 'not obvious'
decimation: but it's true that they weren't
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00025344 = 4.8914 BTC [+]
decimation: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 246.68, Best ask: 246.75, Bid-ask spread: 0.07000, Last trade: 246.75, 24 hour volume: 22636.38523189, 24 hour low: 239.21, 24 hour high: 248.71, 24 hour vwap: None
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 350334 | Current Difficulty: 4.671754964470642E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 350783 | Next Difficulty In: 449 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 3 hours, 21 minutes, and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 49676319200.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.33331
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 226900 @ 0.00026234 = 59.5249 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 194848 @ 0.00026405 = 51.4496 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up bagehot
bagehot: Hey, thanks for the up
bagehot: Why do folks here consider bitcoins tradeable for other goods?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 261100 @ 0.00025801 = 67.3664 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 192161 @ 0.00026396 = 50.7228 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87059 @ 0.00025743 = 22.4116 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet placed: 3.84713728 BTC for No on "Bitcoin above MtGox $266 high 2 years on" http://bitbet.us/bet/1126/ Odds: 26(Y):74(N) by coin, 56(Y):44(N) by weight. Total bet: 13.22859233 BTC. Current weight: 16,339.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell bagehot Do you know any better money?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: Axe time is starting awfully slow, I was expecting more... fluids
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85750 @ 0.0002513 = 21.549 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up hktud0
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109200 @ 0.0002513 = 27.442 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65950 @ 0.0002513 = 16.5732 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67443 @ 0.00025318 = 17.0752 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 245.89, Best ask: 245.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 245.78, 24 hour volume: 22946.51481821, 24 hour low: 239.21, 24 hour high: 248.71, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 246950 @ 0.00024837 = 61.335 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/the-definitive-sovereign/ < updated, because i can't sleep now, because of this stroke of brilliance.
assbot: The definitive sovereign pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6L2Qg )
mircea_popescu: really the similarities are many and varied.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:39; decimation: asciilifeform: one wonders what the openssl authors use as a 'baseline os'
mircea_popescu: it's easy when you're on stupid team.
mircea_popescu: your shit doesn't have to actually work.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083756 << yeah your hole was, to my grief, readily reproduced.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:29:10; asciilifeform: ok so nubbins` has what i have.
mircea_popescu: once i was done screaming so people could ask questions.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083766 << this option is not unlike proving you didn't fuck a goat by proving you impregnated it.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:34:34; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu:fork the chain or maintain the historical copy. << third option: make new apparatus, prove idempotence.
mircea_popescu: in that "proof of idempotence" has generally been orders of magnitude more successful at proving the proving party has no idea what proving means,
mircea_popescu: rather than the intended result.
assbot: nss-mdns 0.10 ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6LQos )
mircea_popescu: "Please note that due to security reasons from this release on the minimal mDNS stack included in nss-mdns (dubbed "legacy") is no longer built by default. Thus, nss-mdns will not work unless Avahi is running!"
mircea_popescu: also https://www.openhub.net/accounts/mezcalero if anyone's actually that curious.
assbot: Lennart Poettering : Lennart Poettering - Open Hub ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6M6nd )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude how did you dig up the fialka thing.
[]bot: Bet placed: 2.10372615 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 21(Y):79(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.08572615 BTC. Current weight: 95,148.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $35 before June " http://bitbet.us/bet/1129/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 12.8656096 BTC. Current weight: 74,132.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and speaking of it : http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/psu/img/Tempest.png doesn't look like the exceptionally advanced thing the article promised. seems to me the solenoid-driven switching would create so much echo as to make it readily measurable.
mircea_popescu: i suppose "works according to what we know how to do" is the one standard of tradecraft.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:51:47; asciilifeform: i can see this being given to unreliable warsaw pact nations to -amplify- their tempest emanations
BingoBoingo: !up asteric
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 04:00:21; asciilifeform: considering that solenoid is an inductive load, and resistor is - well - resistive.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck not put in there... some "carefully chosen" solenoids of the right fucking charge.
mircea_popescu: how hard is it to reproduce a coil of wire with... another coil of wire!
BingoBoingo did not expect axe time to offer this much lead to work the whetstone before sword time
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083849 << dude what the fuck is so very convenient about all the rotor bs i dunno.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 04:09:37; asciilifeform: but 'omg11111111111111!1!!11!!11 not convenient!!'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78350 @ 0.00024829 = 19.4535 BTC [-]
assbot: Jesse James Meets Frankenstein's Daughter (1966) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1GOpu9w )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 233444 @ 0.00024885 = 58.0925 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "To view a downloaded movie, you double-click it. And then you're watching it. Stick a recent commercial DVD into your player, though, and you'll probably have to sit through lengthy, un-skippable warnings about how dastardly is the piracy in which you did not just engage."
mircea_popescu: "if kids continue to not show up for class, the class will continue to get detention!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127646 @ 0.00025424 = 32.4527 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083930 << this seems exceedingly likely, especially with stuff like the "oh open source is more secure because million eyes" million examples fresh in memory.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 04:44:24; asciilifeform: they could be put on the tree today and would stay unpicked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50198 @ 0.00025644 = 12.8728 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you not getting enough fluid ? :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 204700 @ 0.00024694 = 50.5486 BTC [-] {2}
[]bot: Bet placed: 6.10372615 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $35 before June " http://bitbet.us/bet/1129/ Odds: 7(Y):93(N) by coin, 8(Y):92(N) by weight. Total bet: 18.96933575 BTC. Current weight: 74,045.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47665 @ 0.00025118 = 11.9725 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 180450 @ 0.00024481 = 44.176 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 189800 @ 0.00024445 = 46.3966 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54150 @ 0.00025118 = 13.6014 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72887 @ 0.00025519 = 18.6 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 250947 @ 0.00024327 = 61.0479 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46753 @ 0.00024238 = 11.332 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46414 @ 0.00024386 = 11.3185 BTC [+]
nubbins`: morn
Apocalyptic: !up neverending
nubbins`: today's auction-end day :o
assbot: What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket - Forbes ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAOSN1 )
nubbins`: In April 2014, BitStamp representatives messaged Force, asking him why he was accessing his account through Tor. He responded through the support ticket: “I utilize TOR for privacy. Don’t particularly want NSA looking over my shoulder :)”
nubbins`: BitStamp management found this message to be, well, incredibly weird.
nubbins`: yep. INCREDIBLY WEIRD, this. a guy using tor.
nubbins`: !up menahem
nubbins`: so i get woken up 3:30am last night by the guy next door POUNDING on the wall
nubbins`: after a few minutes of this, my doorbell rings, so i go grab a chunk of wood to cave the guy's face in with
nubbins`: and it's my piece of shit roommate who lost his keys
nubbins`: because, y'know, if you lost your keys three days ago, you should come home drunk to a locked house at 3:30am
nubbins`: with no plan
Adlai: sounds like his plan was "pick a time when nubbins`'s probability density is most concentrated within the home"
nubbins`: or, since i am generally always home, pick a time when any normal person is precisely in the middle of a night's rest
nubbins` can't wait to reduce the head count in here
assbot: Dead dolphin found on roadside in Bay Roberts - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD1Ivh )
assbot: Dolphin found on public beach in Newfoundland - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD2eco )
Adlai: breaking news: not all interspecies interactions are beneficial for both parties, or even either!
assbot: NYPD detective caught on video berating Uber driver reassigned - World - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD4BMt )
nubbins`: hahaha man i hate cops.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130550 @ 0.00024349 = 31.7876 BTC [-]
assbot: Labradoodle marketing fetches $2,500 puppy price - Calgary - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD5BAe )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 197550 @ 0.00024212 = 47.8308 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82450 @ 0.00024379 = 20.1005 BTC [+] {2}
funkenstein_: mornin' nubbins
funkenstein_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BWGzrhKKi0
assbot: Immortal Technique - Live From New York Footage - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BTqPGH )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 265900 @ 0.00024162 = 64.2468 BTC [-] {3}
funkenstein_: !up diana_coman
danielpbarron: height=309336 vs height=219658
funkenstein_: danielpbarron, what are the height numbers?
funkenstein_: !up smidge
mike_c: funkenstein_: blockchain sync progress on a SSD vs. 5400 rpm platters.
funkenstein_: mike_c, thank you
lobbes: I posted obamaz magic decree to my facebook. Quite expectedly, no one cares.
lobbes: I feel the cynicism growing inside me
Chillum: obama is magical? I knew it1
funkenstein_: muggle controlled by death eaters, news at 11
assbot: Obama the &apos;Magic Negro&apos; - LA Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2pjel )
nubbins`: <+lobbes> I posted obamaz magic decree to my facebook. Quite expectedly, no one cares. <<< no one, including you
Chillum: some sociologists are magical twits
nubbins`: golly gee, you shared a whole link on bookface?
nubbins`: YOU ANARCHIST
lobbes: yes yes, I deserve that
nubbins`: put another way: maybe all your bookface friends care just as much as you do
nubbins`: i.e. they care enough to share a link
nubbins`: but you did it first, so "*shrug* w/e"
lobbes: hmm I see what you mean
nubbins`: caring != sharing.
lobbes: no real action
nubbins`: not even fake action.
lobbes: just 'hey, "be aware"'
nubbins`: the slightest twitch of a finger.
nubbins`: yes, and awareness has done wonders so far 8)
lobbes: so are the only real options: 1) gtfo 2) wait for the eventual hanging?
nubbins`: no, but i'll leave the other options for you to figure out
nubbins`: some things you can't be shown, neh?
lobbes: I'd like to believe if I just focus on myself and amass enough wealth I can weasel my way through time
lobbes: some things you can't be shown, neh? << agreed. Trial by fire, eh?
nubbins`: well, i'd like to believe this is all an illusion and i'll eventually wake up, my 16-year-old self, sweating through the mattress in a fever dream
nubbins`: wait, that would be horrible
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37376 @ 0.0002408 = 9.0001 BTC [-]
nubbins`: asciilifeform mod6 ben_vulpes and others: on a side note, auto.sh doesn't put the openssl headers in /ourlibs/
nubbins`: build failed on gentoo using gcc-4.4.7: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=qhb7ZT3x
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104314 @ 0.0002408 = 25.1188 BTC [-]
nubbins`: if i manually move the headers over, back to uint32_t errors: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=taiiWaYc
nubbins`: with both of alf's patches applied: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=7qRa7CnL
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139750 @ 0.00024073 = 33.642 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: with "-std=c++03" from portatronic patch removed: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=50XwKjsy (precisely the same as before patching)
funkenstein_: power rangers added more int types later like arith_uint256
funkenstein_: but 10.0.1 release no longer has that class
nubbins`: after renaming all uint32_t to boost::uint32_t: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=D7XGyGna
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 180800 @ 0.00024325 = 43.9796 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: after renaming all int32_t to boost::int32_t: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=A2M3kkZL
nubbins`: "canot find -lssl, -lcrypto"
funkenstein_: *0.10.1
nubbins`: *cannot
funkenstein_: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083447 <-- looks like you got here
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 01:18:00; decimation: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2725255/create-statically-linked-binary-that-uses-getaddrinfo <glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration.
assbot: ACM - Infosys Foundation Award in the Computing Sciences - ACM Award ... ( http://bit.ly/1IUjPhm )
nubbins`: !s libnss
assbot: 0 results for 'libnss' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=libnss
nubbins`: !s nss
assbot: 5 results for 'nss' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=nss
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:58; nubbins`: "glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration."
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:27:23; decimation: nubbins`: no that's a different issue, not critical
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124700 @ 0.0002459 = 30.6637 BTC [+]
mod6: yeah, what we need now is a build environment as discussed yesterday. or we really can't move forward.
nubbins`: i know qemu was bandied about in the past
nubbins`: !qemu
nubbins`: !s qemu
assbot: 18 results for 'qemu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=qemu
nubbins`: ^ read
mod6: are you talking to me?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101750 @ 0.00024853 = 25.2879 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: i thought everyone wanted to create a common gentoo configuration.
mod6: anyway, that's the deal. we need something that we can work with; one supported environment, blessed by alf.
funkenstein_: mats, can you summarize the COOP scoop?
asciilifeform: 'Boneh, in joint work with Matt Franklin, constructed a novel pairing-based method for identity-based encryption (IBE), whereby a user's public identity, such as an email address, can function as the user's public key. Since then, Boneh's contributions, together with those of others, have shown the power and versatility of pairings, which are now used as a mainstream tool in cryptography. The transfer of pairings from theory t
asciilifeform: o practice has been rapid. Organizations now using pairings include healthcare, financial, and insurance institutions. Over a billion IBE-encrypted emails are sent each year.' << ahahahahahaha.
assbot: Dan Boneh - Award Winner ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2A14C )
asciilifeform: 'Identity-based encryption is a type of public-key encryption in which any arbitrary string (such as a user’s email address) can be used as a public key, enabling data to be protected without the need for long, randomly generated keys or certificates. Today, there are numerous standards for IBE based on Boneh’s work, including IEEE P1363.3 and several IETF RFCs.' << from the press release.
asciilifeform: what a crock of shit!
asciilifeform: and it has the full blessing of american academia, yes.
asciilifeform: 'Dan Boneh is professor of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering at Stanford University, and leads the applied cryptography group there. He has written extensively on cryptography and computer security, publishing more than 150 refereed conference and peer-reviewed journal papers. Boneh served as an editor of ACM Transactions on Internet Technology (TOIT), Journal of the ACM (JACM), and Journal of Cryptology. He has serv
asciilifeform: ed as program chair or general chair for several academic conferences and as member of more than 30 conference program committees.'
asciilifeform: ^ now we know what EACH AND EVERY ONE of those institutions, the papers this cheap clown refereed, the conferences he chaired - are worth.
danielpbarron already knew they weren't worth much
asciilifeform: no but this is how it works.
funkenstein_: smells like cryptography as a service
asciilifeform: this is how usg killed -actual- academic crypto
asciilifeform: any wonder they banned shamir from usa?
asciilifeform: !s shamir
assbot: 25 results for 'shamir' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=shamir
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116052 @ 0.00025208 = 29.2544 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: you don't generate a public key from an email address, you generate it from a private key
nubbins`: what's the private key here?
nubbins`: the fucking email address?
funkenstein_: nubbins i can hold the private key for you don't worry
nubbins`: k thx
nubbins`: i'll pm my email password
nubbins`: you just get it set up
funkenstein_: lol
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> in that "proof of idempotence" has generally been orders of magnitude more successful at proving the proving party has no idea what proving means << didn't say it would be easy. or that the existing 'state of the art' is any kind of guide.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... dude what the fuck is so very convenient about all the rotor bs i dunno << short keys
nubbins`: ugh i need lunch
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: does that remind you of arguments in favour of any modern cryptosystem? how about ecdsa, aha
asciilifeform: What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket << i do so hate these 'what you need to know' titles. implication is that no serious person would need to know anything else
asciilifeform: and -of course- it proclaims 'this malefactor was caught thanks to our glorious know-your-customer crapolade!'
asciilifeform: <nubbins`> because, y'know, if you lost your keys three days ago, you should come home drunk to a locked house at 3:30am ..with no plan << http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-04-2015#1083000 >> what do you suppose i was talking about.
assbot: Logged on 01-04-2015 22:18:14; ascii_field: nubbins`: but even something like living in a dwelling without the company of strangers is a titanically expensive luxury in most of the world
nubbins`: HAHAHA
nubbins`: hey, pothing's nerfect.
nubbins`: anyway i gave said idiot the boot
nubbins`: he's got til the 30th
asciilifeform: <nubbins`> with "-std=c++03" from portatronic patch removed << might not actually make a difference
asciilifeform: <nubbins`> "canot find -lssl, -lcrypto" << note! it finds the system's headers, like a moron, and builds with them, then notices no local ssl was built (it wasn't)
asciilifeform: nubbins`: he's got til the 30th << so you didn't need the money? or will replace him with a fresh idiot ?
nubbins`: i think the openssl build has some problems
nubbins`: asciilifeform his bedroom is being turned into a paper-printing studio
nubbins`: pink eye will make up the rent shortfall
nubbins`: yeah :D
asciilifeform: 'Using 'getaddrinfo' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking' << wtf are we even using getaddrinfo for.
asciilifeform: objdump -t src/obj/nogui/*.o | grep getaddrinfo
asciilifeform: 0000000000000000 *UND* 0000000000000000 getaddrinfo
asciilifeform: it's in there all right
asciilifeform: motherfuckers.
nubbins`: incidentally i tried a non-static build of openssl, auto.sh barfs w/ same error
asciilifeform: nubbins`: which error
nubbins`: cannot find -lssl, -lcrypto
asciilifeform: because it was given the local ssl as a search path, yes
asciilifeform: of course couldn't find.
asciilifeform: no surprise here
asciilifeform: ahahahaha guess what
asciilifeform: my dns seed snip patch never made it in the realease, did it
nubbins`: nope
asciilifeform: quite possibly this is where the getaddrinfo crap is from!
nubbins`: oh ha is that what's using it!
asciilifeform: i just can't get over the lulziness of usg proclaiming that stealing/extorting from an outlaw constitutes 'theft of government property'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138238 @ 0.0002428 = 33.5642 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: wow, the latest DDOS attack against the forum seems to have reinstated the ability to change/add avatars
assbot: Kenya Garissa students taken hostage by al-Shabab - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2FGYh )
mats: funkenstein_: read the extract
nubbins` takes this opportunity to make his avatar look meaner
assbot: A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: Truecrypt report ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2GLiM )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 211200 @ 0.00024533 = 51.8137 BTC [+] {2}
danielpbarron: A problem in Truecrypt is that in some extremely rare circumstances, the Crypto API can fail to properly initialize. When this happens, Truecrypt should barf and catch fire. Instead it silently accepts this failure and continues to generate keys.
mats: For example: the most significant issue in the Truecrypt report is a finding related to the Windows version of Truecrypt's random number generator (RNG), which is responsible for generating the keys that encrypt Truecrypt volumes.
ben_vulpes: <mod6> [14:57] anyway, that's the deal. we need something that we can work with; one supported environment, blessed by alf. << asciilifeform, what's the One True Build Target for La Serenissima?
nubbins`: more like Falsecrypt
nubbins`: gentoo on amd64, but the shit don't work
ben_vulpes: if it doesn't work how is it a candidate now?
nubbins`: whatcha wanna use, windows?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 210462 @ 0.00023945 = 50.3951 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: gentoo is ostensibly used by alf because it's the sanest. the fact that bitcoind doesn't compile on it doesn't necessarily mean that the OS is the problem, nor does it mean a turd should be adopted as the OTBT
nubbins`: but...
nubbins`: i don't know nearly enough about gcc to be of much further use atm
nubbins` is good at figuring things out but is currently in position of "doesn't know what questions to ask"
ben_vulpes: tell me about it.
ben_vulpes: anyways, we need a build target. one. not the accidental build target of debian 6 that fell out of my archaeology project.
ben_vulpes: talk about unexamined assumptions...
jurov: ubuntu!!!
jurov: (context: i was hired to patch android system. had to create nigbuntu lxc container for its monstrous build system)
ben_vulpes: oh yeah. i did a continuous integration thinger for an android project recently.
ben_vulpes: ('here, let me duct tape a bunch of libs together so you get emails when your derps break the cpp compiled into the android code')
ben_vulpes: surely my finest work
nubbins`: well, alf's not gonna go for anything w/ systemd
nubbins`: what *has* 0.5.3.1 worked on so far? debian, darwin, that it?
thestringpuller: systemd is the best thing ever
thestringpuller: much secure
nubbins`: ah get out
thestringpuller: rich boy sellin' coin broke niggaz wanna jack this just bought a debian "THROW SOME SYSTEMD's on dat bitch"
thestringpuller: amirite?
ben_vulpes: out, you
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: are you coming to con3?
thestringpuller: no. i'm going to have to cancel for family reasons related to finance
thestringpuller: haven't been able to contact cazalla
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 136300 @ 0.00023901 = 32.5771 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: "It's all fun and games until someone jokes about systemd" lol
mod6: <+nubbins`> what *has* 0.5.3.1 worked on so far? debian, darwin, that it? << what's blowing my mind is why i was able to build just fine on aws Gentoo AMI. Unless it was packed full of stuff in there that we don't want to begin with. Which must be the case.
nubbins`: i know nothing about aws, can you pull an image of that machine down locally?
nubbins`: mod6 ah 32bit
nubbins`: tried 64?
nubbins` has a suspicion that this is somehow related to 32bit vs 64bit libs
mod6: yeah, I believe I did. But I can't find a build log for it.
asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> what's the One True Build Target for La Serenissima? << why asking -me-, l0l
asciilifeform: what if i said 'posix'
mod6: I also seem to recall, and maybe I should dig for it, someone else built for gentoo before anyone was discussing 32bit.
mod6: like... say.. 3-4 weeks ago when we were testing stuff.
nubbins`: asciilifeform then i'd mention again that i built it on POSIX-compliant os
asciilifeform: general rule is that i should be able to at least obtain the build target using -the compilers i presently have- and a set of sourceballs.
nubbins`: that happens to be made by crapple
asciilifeform: that is, i should not have to download any binaries.
asciilifeform: nor should nubbins`, or ben_vulpes, or the rest.
asciilifeform: <nubbins`> well, alf's not gonna go for anything w/ systemd << damn right
nubbins`: one of the solutions floated for the "no lssl, lcrypto" thing was to download precompiled bins
nubbins`: i lel'd
mod6: asciilifeform: can you make a repeatable build environment for The Foundation to use going forward? Something put together by you, blessed by you, so we're all building/testing/using something that "fits in head"?
nubbins`: "can't untie the knot in your laces? cut em off and apply glue-backed velcro"
asciilifeform: mod6: i suggested this some time near day 1 if anyone recalls
nubbins`: yeah, see !s qemu
asciilifeform: but do folks really want to pass a multigig bag of shit around ?
nubbins`: mod6 in fairness my gentoo was installed using the official docs, and it's reacting precisely the same as alf's
mod6: What I was hoping for is maybe a build script. Would that be muti-gig?
nubbins`: "build script" is sorta the install guide :P
asciilifeform: mod6: build script is what we have now
asciilifeform: and see the result.
asciilifeform: no, it would have to be a disk image for an emulated machine
asciilifeform: to be 100% replicable across time and space
asciilifeform: regardless of whether you have a 'pc' or 'elbrus'
nubbins`: mod6 ^
asciilifeform: or hypertrophied nintendo
mod6: Ok, so say that you have installed via offical docs, bla bla bla. Ok, then our release doesn't work. But we need to fix defects, and I refuse to have this happen going forward. So we need something repeatable.
nubbins` has a virtualbox .VDI with gentoo installed
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i'd rather have something that isn't as dependent on pc
asciilifeform: virtualization of pc arch only works on pc arch.
nubbins`: yeah
nubbins`: well.
asciilifeform: try to understand why i am hesitant to put out a binary image for folks to run
mod6: i don't want a binary.
mod6: i want a script that will build all of the "accepted"/"blessed" versions of the things it needs; gcc, etc, etc, etc.
mod6: we have to get to some sort of common ground here.
asciilifeform: mod6: say i publish a recipe for constructing said image (runs on, e.g., qemu-system-mipsel). and then you do it, and we learn that your disk image differs from mine which differs from nubbins` which differs from mircea_popescu's etc
asciilifeform: what then.
asciilifeform: mod6: i want a script that will build all of the "accepted"/"blessed" versions << notice that this is where we were with bitcoind ?
asciilifeform: let's rephrase a bit
mod6: ok. im not sure if we have a way forward on this project. or if there is, I don't know what it is.
asciilifeform: the only -canonical- parent of a given build on my box is my particular hardware plus my particular disk contents
asciilifeform: given that i do not especially feel like publishing the entire contents of my disk, nor could you replicate my machine easily (most of the components are no longer produced) - the next best thing is to somehow create an equivalent
asciilifeform: with, yes, maximally detailed instructions made publi
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167100 @ 0.00023779 = 39.7347 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: the other non-negotiable requirement is that it be -small-
jurov: can't be some supported-till-2020 distro used for now? gentoo is good, but moving target
asciilifeform: because we -would- have to eventually audit the binaries.
asciilifeform: jurov: 'supported' means what ?
nubbins`: before we dig too deep, is it fair to say that qemu is worth using for hosting dev environment?
nubbins`: leaving aside the question of OS for now
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i have used it for dev work for many years.
asciilifeform: it is a simple enough beast
nubbins`: so maybe we can start there
asciilifeform: there -are- even simpler emulators
asciilifeform: like gxemul
nubbins`: what's the simplest we could get away with?
asciilifeform: these do not focus on any -physical- machine that existed in life
asciilifeform: but a 'textbook' mips plus bitmap graphics
assbot: AMD Bulldozer Linux ASLR weakness: Reducing entropy by 87.5% ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6vG8d )
asciilifeform: i use gxemul in cardano work
mod6: i dont want to rely on an emulator if possible. i'd like to have: a URL to an ISO of gentoo that's "acceptable", a script that pulls down tar balls of required tools and builds them
jurov: mhm...how do you ensure you'll hav exact versions of stuff once gentoo moves on?
asciilifeform: mod6: again, iso for what box
mod6: x86_64
nubbins`: uh does gxemul emulate x86?
asciilifeform: if you have physical hardware, you do not control all of the variables
asciilifeform: <nubbins`> uh does gxemul emulate x86? << very much not!
asciilifeform: only a textbook 'ideal' mips cpu that never existed
asciilifeform: but we're cross-compiling anyway
nubbins`: right
asciilifeform: (gcc doesn't care what it runs on)
asciilifeform: all compilation is cross-compilation, really
mod6: ok so we're stuck with using an emulator only.
nubbins`: not stuck
asciilifeform: not stuck. just gives a golden reference
mod6: how does one then build on an emulator then run it on their desktop or vps or w/e?
nubbins`: i wouldn't ascribe "stuck" to having clone-able metal available
asciilifeform: you can still take the code and build elsewhere - if you know how
asciilifeform: mod6: cross compile
asciilifeform: like we now do for 'pogo'
nubbins`: i fear this'll add complexity from the start because you won't know if the cross-compile is failing because it's a cross-compile or because the code's borked
asciilifeform: if the cross-compile is failing because it's a cross-compile << cross-compile is the gold standard for correctness
asciilifeform: why? -- because you know it cannot be using the system's libs
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit
nubbins`: ah, this is correct
asciilifeform: does not make the code smarter, no
nubbins`: cross-compile failing would probably be a canary
asciilifeform: but eliminates several holes-through-which-the-night-walks-in
nubbins`: other pros/cons for qemu vx gxemul?
nubbins`: might as well get em all laid out now
asciilifeform: it has simplified hardware, not copied from any physical machine sold. quite like many similar emulators used in schools
asciilifeform: and mips is a very simple and well-defined cpu arch.
asciilifeform: qemu on the other hand emulates many physical machines
asciilifeform: including i386 and x86_64
asciilifeform: which you can physically get.
asciilifeform: but is a more complex beast
asciilifeform: the third choice, included for completeness, is that we do none of this
asciilifeform: and carry on with our old approach.
asciilifeform: of trying to get to the bottom of why the thing built for some folks
nubbins`: welp
nubbins`: based on this, i think qemu is the third choice
asciilifeform: aha lol
asciilifeform: fourth then.
nubbins`: okay, so.
nubbins`: if anyone reading feels like being tasked
nubbins`: do a run-through (or 10) of getting gxemul set up, and make a guide
nubbins`: i'm assuming the built environments can be swapped around from person to person?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: yes, that's the whole point.
nubbins` asks "sanity check" questions more often than most
asciilifeform: 38108c7e4f1332bf80046a63e4a7c5e0fbce7f83a62fdeaa4518ef02947d7de83aac20b0307d286b7eb5d9c721b8400d449d4f244b2bc9358a2502fa21f56b73 /usr/portage/distfiles/gxemul-0.6.0.tar.gz
asciilifeform: ^ my snapshot
asciilifeform: dated feb. 14 2010
nubbins`: current stable is only 0.6.0.1
nubbins`: welp
nubbins`: my path forward is prolly gonna be (a)gxemul (b) gentoo on same (c) 0.5.3.1 on same
nubbins`: i do feel that we'll run into precisely the same issues as we're having with our current gentoo installs
assbot: dpaste: 11V97ED: gxemul ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6xMVL )
nubbins`: but hey. the plural of anecdote is proof, yes?
asciilifeform: deedbot...?
nubbins`: !up deedbot-
jurov: will it be able to run or even debug bitcoind?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: not gentoo for the (so far, hypothetical) emulated machine
asciilifeform: buildroot
nubbins`: o, rite
jurov: otherwise no one will use that for development
asciilifeform: we don't need to upgrade it ever
asciilifeform: or add packages
asciilifeform: jurov: clearly this is part of the spec, it must build for a) self b) other archs
asciilifeform: or cannot be used.
asciilifeform: i am also open to using a bsd of one kind or another
jurov: building and usefully running are two disticnt things
nubbins`: BingoBoingo messed w/ 0.5.3.1 on bsd?
nubbins`: i'll be afk-ish, one last color to lay down on these business cards
asciilifeform: jurov: the good thing about an emulator is that you can emulate machine of any size, providing you have one 20x or so that size.
asciilifeform: is deedbot dead ?
jurov: even openbsd prefers to maintain racks of obsolete hardware to running emulators
nubbins`: deedbot- afasdfasdfgwre
assbot: dpaste: 11V97ED: gxemul ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6ycv7 )
deedbot-: Bad URL or network outage.
jurov: so i'm not very keen on this
asciilifeform: jurov: openbsd is solving a rather different problem, 'waltzing' it on variety of archs
deedbot-: accepted: 1
nubbins`: asciilifeform ^
nubbins`: raw txt
asciilifeform: jurov: i can't say i'm creaming my pants with excitement over the idea of doing this. but so far the alternatives have been disappointing
nubbins`: jurov openbsd keeps a room of shit hardware because it's expected to run on that shit hardware in the real world
nubbins`: not on emulators of the shit hardware
nubbins`: <+nubbins`> i'll be afk-ish, one last color to lay down on these business cards
assbot: GXemul - Documentation (0.6.0.1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6yySC )
asciilifeform: (it supports other, more realistic archs too, which i actually forgot because never tried)
asciilifeform: and before anyone asks, the ram is adjustable!
asciilifeform: or it would be a joke
nubbins`: HAHA i was about to.
nubbins`: how 'bout the cpu speed ;p
asciilifeform: adjustable by buying faster physical cpu, lol
asciilifeform: i think everyone here knows what an emulator is
asciilifeform: and what the serious tradeoffs are.
nubbins`: i know i'd sure as fuck rather play Super Spike V-Ball on an actual NES
asciilifeform: i wouldn't. fucking hate ntsc and 60hz flicker
jurov: why not use jvm? </troll>
asciilifeform: jurov: dotnet!
nubbins`: asciilifeform i wonder how well it works w/ modern tvs
nubbins` has NES, but in storage
asciilifeform: nubbins`: most tv sets still come with ntsc jacks
asciilifeform: last i checked
asciilifeform has not been to a tv store in a very long time
nubbins`: yeah they still come w/ RCA in
nubbins`: incidentally, the fact that NES has RCA out is amazing
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
asciilifeform: nubbins`: why ?
asciilifeform: how else would it output
assbot: Google Discussiegroepen ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6zdnb )
asciilifeform: ^ eu welcomes reich IV as it welcomed III
nubbins`: asciilifeform via stupid RF adapter
nubbins`: plugged into coax input
asciilifeform: aha those.
asciilifeform: i remember those.
nubbins`: yeah
nubbins`: my atari 2600 one had a switch for CH 2/3
asciilifeform never had 'nes' but had 'commodore 64'
asciilifeform: anyway it was usually the tv which lacked rca in
asciilifeform: commodore, for instance, had the out
nubbins`: back then, yeah. a rarity.
nubbins`: imagine, future-proofing a video game console in 1983 :0
asciilifeform: wonder if the muppet ever wondered why his pissant kingdom was ever occupied by ru.
nubbins`: hahahahaha is he holding a fucking pint of draft?
asciilifeform: and ahahaha we know, it was because it lacked a 'big daddy' to cry to
nubbins`: oh wow there's another almost-empty glass behind the other side of the banner
nubbins`: together we will *hic*
nubbins`: TOGETHER WE WILL *HIC* [SIC] NOT ALLOW...
assbot: American students head to Germany for free college | Marketplace.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6Anz0 )
punkman: this girl I know moved to germany to work at some tech company, 800eur salary for first 2 years or something.
nubbins`: woo, done, nicest cards yet
nubbins` wanders away to void himself
assbot: Woman reported for flashing Google Street View car in South Australia - BBC Newsbeat ... ( http://bit.ly/1CVQCSh )
punkman: " balaclava-clad goon attempts to burn a fire-resistant EU flag"
jurov: together we will *hic* ...so? let's have fun
jurov: alf takes his usaschwitz suffering too seriously
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1181853joe_sacco_buffoons_tale.png << l33t w4r3z scan. this comic was probably not intentionally about the collapse of fiat world, but is a good parable for it regardless.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 77 @ 0.01505727 = 1.1594 BTC [+] {6}
asciilifeform: 'hey hey, ho, ho,' dns in bitcoind 'has got to go!!'
mircea_popescu: good mornin'!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 439400 @ 0.00025376 = 111.5021 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: ein popescu!
jurov: morning!
jurov: damn, i realized took me half day to get through last 24h logs
jurov: should be doing sth else
ben_vulpes: dude these logs are dense
mircea_popescu: heh. as in stupid ?
ben_vulpes: it's not the number of lines but the maaaadness described herein
jurov: BingoBoingo: interested in "Weekly #b-a"? i need at least someting useful to come out of this
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wut!
mircea_popescu: jurov yes actually, summaries have been sought and hoped and desired for year+
ben_vulpes: every 2 lines i have to hare off to the internet - "buildroot" "qemu"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that's only because you're a young fox.
asciilifeform: there breatheth a man who has not heard of 'qemu' ?
ben_vulpes: up yrs, asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: apparently. EVEN I!!!! had actually seen the thing used.
mircea_popescu: and honestly, i should be the king noob here.
ben_vulpes: naw, you're too old to be a noob anymore.
mircea_popescu: but i never put any serious effort into electrical engineering!
mircea_popescu: point in case : that's how you say "computing" imh.
jurov: s.qntr arrived
mircea_popescu: jurov just sent it yeah. was about to notify you
jurov: who wants to get'em first?
mircea_popescu: but then I GOT CAUGHT IN A BA CONVO
ben_vulpes: "imh" << in my house?
jurov: lol
mircea_popescu: i was going to, but then i got caught in conversation!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu> but i never put any serious effort into electrical engineering! << said the chap with his own bitcoind running on soviet trinary comp
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you will notice it is not my effort tho.
mircea_popescu: i have put plenty of ope, as you may well be aware of from unrelatedlandia.
asciilifeform: haha aha.
asciilifeform: <jurov> s.qntr arrived << my broadcast also coming soonish
asciilifeform presently lightly occupied with a couplea unrelated things
mircea_popescu: we should start our own cockney. coupla unrelated things = fleas.
asciilifeform: 'flee,' said the fly; 'fly,' said the flea...
bitstein: mircea_popescu, mod6: The deed link at the bottom of http://thebitcoin.foundation/declaration.txt redirects to a weird domain registration site.
ben_vulpes: linkrot!
mircea_popescu: hot damn...
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla any idea why http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/ redirects to unregistry.com ?
trinque: perfect time for me to point out that current incarnation needs friendly hosting
mircea_popescu: oh wait it is not kako's fault
trinque: is not
trinque: I don't run whatever URL that is
mircea_popescu: a) put the fucking history in and b) fix your 404 scheme
trinque: that's not hitting the current one, wherever it's going
mircea_popescu: what happens is that http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/9ULZPc7yeZ9fQEA1aZ73H6mcv1s2C4gYFAbNTb5urovj gets -> to deedbot.org/ deed/9ULZPc7yeZ9fQEA1aZ73H6mcv1s2C4gYFAbNTb5urovj
assbot: Domain Names - New gTLDs | Uniregistry ... ( http://bit.ly/1GkwmLc )
mircea_popescu: which...
bitstein: mircea_popescu: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/ redirects to http://deedbot.org/ for me. It's that specific deed link that is redirecting to unregistry.com
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/19NfJv7 )
trinque: and I don't know what that registry is
trinque: never heard of her
mircea_popescu: weirdness.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 188050 @ 0.00025508 = 47.9678 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: > Host: deeds.bitcoin-assets.com
mircea_popescu: > Accept: */*
mircea_popescu: < HTTP/1.1 302 Found
mircea_popescu: < Server: nginx/1.2.1
mircea_popescu: eyah ok.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72500 @ 0.00025193 = 18.2649 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <trinque> perfect time for me to point out that current incarnation needs friendly hosting << fucking hell someone start that hoster already.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169700 @ 0.00024797 = 42.0805 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: trinque what specs?
trinque: minimal
asciilifeform: if we do the emulatron thing, it will -definitely- need hosting
mircea_popescu: you need what, python for the bot ?
trinque: python and go
asciilifeform: i'd rather not put a multigig turd on my puny hostatron
trinque: and some space for the blockchain
mircea_popescu: some space aka 50gb
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000000 @ 0.000257 = 257 BTC [+] {8}
jurov: interesting, what it needs blockchain for?
trinque: has its own node
asciilifeform: naturally deedbot has node
asciilifeform: how else.
nubbins`: <+punkman> " balaclava-clad goon attempts to burn a fire-resistant EU flag" <<< protip: spray paint the corner of the thing before lighting
jurov: i see
mircea_popescu: pretty much means server for it can't have ssd.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` or squirt 190 proof alcohol on it
asciilifeform: ssd isn't -really- 'disposable'
jurov: so, we can bootstrap on aws and move to iron later
asciilifeform: lasts about as long as the shitty mechanical disks sold in past 5 yrs
asciilifeform: neither is worth anything except in heterogeneous tandem.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just meant for size. server ssd 100gb is expensive as shit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1245983 @ 0.00026371 = 328.5782 BTC [+] {8}
jurov: trinque any specific distro?
mircea_popescu: jurov i think he is on aws already
trinque: currently gentoo which is my preference
nubbins`: mircea_popescu i'd say that man drinks the 190 proof
nubbins`: prob drinks the paint too, i mean, that 'clava doesn't even fit him! it's like 3x too big!
mircea_popescu: wait he's dressed in a pastry ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 168200 @ 0.00026831 = 45.1297 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: "the man donned his baclava"
assbot: Casascius 0.5 BTC Silver Series-2 physical bitcoin: NO RESERVE, 30-DAY AUCTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1BV27pl )
asciilifeform: unrelated:
assbot: The Semenette® : : : Even Better than the Real Thing ... ( http://bit.ly/1BV29xp )
nubbins`: if you wanna see people be loose with money, that's the place to go
asciilifeform: (don't ask how found this, l0l)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 585817 @ 0.00027037 = 158.3873 BTC [+] {5}
jurov: trinque are you interested in running it on pogoplug?
trinque: jurov: the bot part I think I will
trinque: mircea_popescu: what do you think about the deeds being added to the wiki?
trinque: jurov: I have a pogo here
mircea_popescu: trinque added to the wiki how ?
mircea_popescu: which one ?
nubbins`: hanbot try "deedbot- http://blah"
nubbins`: and also:
nubbins`: !up deedbot-
deedbot-: rejected: 1
nubbins`: man you guise. /nick nubbot
hanbot: lol
nubbins`: maybe deedbot should be auto-voiced by assbot? dem silent fails
trinque: that'd be quicker than waiting for me to give it fancy auth-to-assbot code
nubbins`: !gettrust assbot deedbot-
assbot: deedbot- is not registered in WoT.
nubbins`: well
jurov: anyone interested in hosted pogoplugs w/2 terabyte hdds? or 2x100G ssd?
nubbins` has 3 pogoplugs and 2 more in the mail
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didn't you predict that someone would manufacture automatic impregnatrons ? i distinctly recall an essay concerning such
nubbins`: i'm gonna need babysitting, not hosting ;D
trinque: hanbot: it does not know your public key, which is added in the same fashion
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
nubbins`: man i'm outta touch w/ this new deedbot
nubbins`: i gotta pastebin my public key?
mircea_popescu: the lulzy part is that they try to make it sound feminine :D
mircea_popescu: "The Semenette® is unique because it offers the ability to replace the embedded plastic tubing with each use, eliminating sanitary concerns about mixing liquids you choose to put into the tube."
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you not getting enough fluid ? :D << I survived log catch up time
mircea_popescu: somebody had equal-opportunity thermodynamics class.
asciilifeform: also i predicted a very different machine, that would include the chinese donor 'milking' box in the next room
asciilifeform: in real time
mircea_popescu: mp's rule of the junkworld : no machine may be roomsized.
asciilifeform: not room sized in its crate!
mircea_popescu: if orc can't carry it, it already has problems.
asciilifeform: but set up with a wall, or else what is the point
mircea_popescu: free the crates11!
asciilifeform: (what the actual point is, is probably only comprehensible to u.s. pheminist types)
mircea_popescu: i don't think you exactly understand how envy that wears a coat and hides in the hallways works.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it could be packaged in a large suitcase, containing a reel of hose.
mircea_popescu: imagine there was a breed of marginally intelligent rabid dogs, and they attacked cars
mircea_popescu: because... can't carry one.
nubbins`: ahaha man this is great.
nubbins`: people putting bids in with 60 seconds left
mircea_popescu: this is kind-of what online action has come to mean i thought.
nubbins`: i'm gonna pretend that wasn't a typo
nubbins`: because this truly is action
nubbins`: anyway, late bids extend the end time by 15 minutes
nubbins`: so it's just people being silly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113700 @ 0.00027094 = 30.8059 BTC [+] {2}
deedbot-: imported: EA0FAD90985B3025576A5061454B0FC0BC07B87E
deedbot-: accepted: 1
hanbot: ty trinque, nubbins :)
asciilifeform: envy that wears a coat and hides in the hallways works << also wai wat
asciilifeform: what kind of coat does envy wear ?
mircea_popescu: allow me to show you.
asciilifeform: what even is that
asciilifeform: can't tell if fatchick or hippie guy
mircea_popescu: that is the socialist of tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: neither can anyone else tell if fatchick or metrosexual.
mircea_popescu: but there clearly must be some regulation about all this unsanctioned mirror picture taking by self
asciilifeform: what's this to do with impregnatron, though
asciilifeform: (or perhaps i can guess what)
mircea_popescu: there's a reason you can't have a roomsized machine.
mircea_popescu: same reason people attacked big iron and lab cages.
mircea_popescu: which people ? these people.
asciilifeform: only posited 'room' to allow for the lesbianz to avoid seeing the spooge-supplier
mircea_popescu: there's a reason stuff must be ipad even if crapple does not work : orc wants things it can carry
asciilifeform: i'm engineer not psychiatrist.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as an engineer that's not a psychiatrist.
mircea_popescu: THIS is what psychiatry actually is
nubbins`: mega point
mircea_popescu: what ballas does is more akin to theatrics.
asciilifeform: 'build me a harness for efficiently tossing nun from helicopter.' -- 'what size nun?' -- 'a number-five.'
mircea_popescu: lol wut ?!
asciilifeform: ^ example
mircea_popescu: now i'm lost lol. explain in simple words ?
asciilifeform: 'mine is not to question why, mine is but to do and die'
asciilifeform: assumed that apparatus for delivering fresh spoodge into a lesbian is necessary
asciilifeform: proceeded from there.
mircea_popescu: you can't proceed. "this harness is no good" "Why not ?" "it's yellow. duh."
mircea_popescu: ever ran into this ?
asciilifeform: every time.
mircea_popescu: so then stop pretending and learn psychiatry :D
mircea_popescu points out that his entire life he's been a transaltor, and perhaps the most successful/best paid/dearliest loved translator ever. started off translating the law to a bunch of burly dudes, then later translated romania to foreigners, then later translated psychiatry to engineers
mircea_popescu: today translating bitcoin to everyone.
nubbins`: lo siento pero no entiendo
nubbins`: i mean uh
mircea_popescu: you know thats funny ?
nubbins`: no speako spanisho
BingoBoingo: jurov: BingoBoingo: interested in "Weekly #b-a"? i need at least someting useful to come out of this << I see no reason why not
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> today translating bitcoin to everyone. << the book. it must be printed!
mircea_popescu: cause lo siento means sorry, but it also means i hear you in a very unspanish ethymological approach
mircea_popescu: nubbins` call it castejan, suddenly you're refined.
nubbins`: unless you replace the two L's with a J
asciilifeform: 'castejan' is castellano with mouth full ?
nubbins`: if i wanted to be refined, i'd decompose under pressure into hydrocarbons!
mircea_popescu: that's the fuck they do here.
nubbins`: parts of colombia do this too
mircea_popescu: they read ll like it were ascii.
nubbins`: medejin
asciilifeform: 'The one L lama, he's a priest The two L llama, he's a beast ...'
nubbins`: tried alpaca meat, never tried llama
mircea_popescu: me either.
nubbins`: while i'll advance that it was "good", peruvian standard is to beat any steak with a maul before grilling
nubbins`: so i can't really say if it's actually as tender as it seemed
asciilifeform: and what of guinea pig meat ?
nubbins`: cuy? never tried.
asciilifeform: it was always no. 1 in my 'travel to south americas' mental list
nubbins`: was told it's too much work for the amount of meat
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 6415 @ 0.00037719 = 2.4197 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i dunno anyone offering either of these o.O
nubbins`: both popular in peru
asciilifeform: iirc in peru
nubbins`: viva el peru glorioso!
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> i dunno anyone offering either of these o.O << my butcher sells llamaburgers
mircea_popescu: are they any good ?
hanbot: i'm not as curious
nubbins`: anything burger-ified is generally edible
nubbins` has admittedly made "lamburger helper" more than once :(
mircea_popescu: hanbot no cuy ?
trinque: nubbins`: sounds... delicious
nubbins`: trinque lamb is ++
trinque: yeah, I tend to encounter it via greek food
mircea_popescu: lamb yes.
trinque: love it
mircea_popescu: i mostly eat indian food lamb.
nubbins`: i should make donairs ("doner kebab" for you non-eastern-canadians) with actual lamb soon
nubbins`: beef's good, but i mean
nubbins`: saw this on a wall in a "love park" in lima, stays with me: http://imgur.com/2smAiq6
asciilifeform: do any of you lot have an x86 or x86_64 bitcoind built -with debug symbols still- in ?
asciilifeform: i'd like one for a quick experiment.
asciilifeform: ideally dynamic build
nubbins`: not i
nubbins`: er hm
nubbins`: i don't think i have debug symbols built in. easy way to check?
asciilifeform: nm found one
nubbins`: young nubs in the amazon: http://imgur.com/gl4vfmS
nubbins`: oh man, that was the year i burned my hand! you can see the scar
nubbins` reminisces
asciilifeform: let's rephrase
asciilifeform: does anyone have an output of the latest release build
asciilifeform: but with -dynamic-
asciilifeform: ... or not.
nubbins` is running latest release build, but assuming static
trinque: asciilifeform: I am building one on amd64 gentoo for ya
hanbot: mircea_popescu hello sir! no cuy at all i tell you!
mircea_popescu: nubbins` well... "static".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114900 @ 0.00027158 = 31.2045 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: e-static it should be called.
nubbins`: yeah
nubbins`: staticky
assbot: Casascius 0.5 BTC Silver Series-2 physical bitcoin: NO RESERVE, 30-DAY AUCTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVfHJn )
nubbins`: meat for dinner tonight
asciilifeform: holy everliving phuck, is auditing a cpp-built bin a pain.
mats: found yerself a greater fool eh
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu said that pets can be trained to do anything - make them do this.
mircea_popescu: you know asciilifeform, i don't hate them. i love them.
asciilifeform: then train'em to do it with love.
asciilifeform: anyway, for the record, my experiment concerned the question of how to create a mapping between a source tree and sections of resulting bin
nubbins`: http://imgur.com/jCUBrdF <<< man i got really skinny after two weeks of diarrhoea
asciilifeform: graph-colouring problem.
nubbins`: asciilifeform five colours should be enough for everyone 8)
nubbins`: also, you brit-spell?!
trinque: he's referring to your dirty communist spelling of "color"
nubbins`: quick: what's the word for the people who live in the houses around you
nubbins`: don't think, just type
asciilifeform: i dun spell, me fingerz spell
asciilifeform: nubbins`: schmucks?
nubbins`: bahaha
nubbins`: smarty
nubbins`: neigh*r
nubbins` genuinely curious
nubbins` applauds softly
asciilifeform: i mean, if we're gonna zap vowels why not let'em all go
asciilifeform: like the semitic langs
mircea_popescu: neighbour.
nubbins`: asciilifeform then a couple thou years from now you've got people taking guesses as to the True Name of mrc ppsc
nubbins`: YMMV, YHWH
asciilifeform: mats: is it just me or do 'aslr' and related items give a feeling of 'plugging the wrong end of the funnel' ?
mats: well, yes.
asciilifeform: mats: as in, 'why is the enemy supplying instructions for your cpu to execute in the first place'
asciilifeform: aslr is sorta like building a labyrinth in your house to slow burglars
asciilifeform: between rooms
mats: fun fact: i played starcraft with the guy that patented ASLR.
asciilifeform: mats: how about the guy who patented the stone axe ?
mats: he also went on to write the Control Flow Guard code.
nubbins`: iirc there's an hg wells story about the guy who invented the stone axe.
nubbins`: not a bad read
asciilifeform: it boggles my mind that aslr could be patented
asciilifeform: what year filed ?
mircea_popescu: anything can bve patented
mircea_popescu: and as peole stupidify, more and more tyhings will be.
mats: 2006 iirc
trinque: there's a patent on having a database of products and modifiers which dates to 2000s sometime
mircea_popescu: stuff that was ridiculous to patent in 1850, such as "how to make bread" definitely meets the bar today.
asciilifeform: mr mold, of all people, has watertight prior art from, iirc, '94
asciilifeform: it was his one and only academic paper.
assbot: Patent US7831791 - Method of address space layout randomization for windows operating systems - Google Patents ... ( http://bit.ly/1BViSki )
trinque: the twist was "synchronizing the data between multiple terminals
assbot: The Project Gutenberg eBook of Tales of Space and Time, by H. G. Wells ... ( http://bit.ly/1BViSAK )
nubbins`: if anyone's interested
asciilifeform: l0l mentions winblows by name
asciilifeform: at uspto these are called 'wall hanger patents'
asciilifeform: as in, the only thing they are good for is office decoration
trinque: sure that and dragging every entity smaller than a billion plus in revenue into court to die by starvation
asciilifeform: trinque: you need at least a basic troll-grade patent for that
asciilifeform: not any old schizo rant will suffice
asciilifeform: contrary to popular belief
trinque: til there's an even lower tier of "valid" patents
trinque: I've seen insane, *insane* cases in the hospitality software space
asciilifeform: 'designpatent' ?
trinque: prior art from the dawn of computing type patents
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it occurs to me that if you spend some time now designing and patenting gasenwagens
mircea_popescu: you may end up controlling that space
asciilifeform: prior art, if can be authenticated, invalidates patent. retroactively.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: except that usg owns the patents (war trophies!)
nubbins`: heee
trinque: asciilifeform: jury of "peers"
trinque: this prior art thing if it actually worked would burn like a grease fire through 99.9% of software patents
trinque: the standards for "novel" seem trivial
asciilifeform: anyway patents are a passenger on the burning atomic dirigible of usg
asciilifeform: all of'em.
mircea_popescu: not all of them.
mircea_popescu: seeing how you called whatever phrase a mpism
asciilifeform: unless a patent is so poorly constructed as to be thrown out immediately, any patent litigation in usaworld is a contest of bank accounts.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i didn't say 'authorships' but -patents- as we know'em.
asciilifeform: as in the weirdo crown monopolies.
mircea_popescu: well that.
asciilifeform: incidentally, did anyone read the 'buffoon's tale' link ?
asciilifeform: perfect allegory for usg.
asciilifeform: and its works.
trinque: asciilifeform: current release busts for me on uint32_t as well
asciilifeform: trinque: patched? and if so, how ?
trinque: have not made any attempt to fix it yet; have to attend to something else first
asciilifeform: trinque: post barf plz.
asciilifeform: along with os/gcc/etc
mats: ;;seen FabianB
gribble: FabianB was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 17 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 35 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <FabianB> not down but very slow it seems
mircea_popescu: scoopbot fetch
mircea_popescu: scoopbot -fetch
asciilifeform: trinque: aha, precisely what happens to the published (without weirdo patches) release on my boxes.
asciilifeform: nubbins` et al ^^^^^^
trinque: asciilifeform: do you use a hardened toolchain?
asciilifeform: hardened how ?
trinque: gentoo hardened profile
trinque: dunno why that would magically poof in a header defining that type
asciilifeform: wait, did it ?!
trinque: no, saying I don't know why that would be relevant
asciilifeform: because your dump is quite the same as mine
trinque: mine is busted as yours
asciilifeform: incidentally, i don't like 'selinux'
trinque: wondering what's different about the debian
trinque: asciilifeform: yeah I don't use it
mats: do you like grsec?
asciilifeform: i invoke mircea_popescu's maxim that 'if there is anything good in it, it will have to be reinvented naively'
trinque: hardened here just means having things like stack protection turned on
mats: and why don't you like sel
mats: selinux
asciilifeform: mats: guess.
trinque: in my case it seems like a vast, complex surface to deal with
trinque: seems also that within that complexity you could hide nefarious things
mats: i know why i don't like selinux, but i have a feeling we don't intersect
mats: lemme guess: NSA?
asciilifeform: but not merely the fact of.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 13:34:48; lobbes: I posted obamaz magic decree to my facebook. Quite expectedly, no one cares.
asciilifeform: mats: grsec >> but the sheer nonsensicalness of pretending that kernel can limit what kernel can do. consider this claim: 'Through PaX's UDEREF and KERNEXEC features, grsecurity forces any userland data access to go through an approved accessor and rejects any attempt to execute userland code in kernel context.'
trinque: nobody I know cares
trinque: cept those here and a handful of clever meatspace guys
asciilifeform: mats: i can trivially make mincemeat of this by issuing raw dma cycles.
asciilifeform: mats: selinux and similar are exemplary of usg approach to 'seek00r1ty' - add layers of 'granular' bureaucracy to the os
asciilifeform: as if this did something tangible beyond making it even -less- fit-in-head.
asciilifeform: and even further discouraging genuine audit, as if this were possible or even necessary
mats: i dunno about that second part, but in general i agree with you
asciilifeform: it isn't just 'voodoo taint' from nsa.
asciilifeform doesn't practice voodoo
trinque: this seems to be why openbsd just has chroot, bsd has fancy jails or whatever, and now linux has Containerz (TM)
trinque: just make fucking chroot work
trinque: that and a working firewall
asciilifeform: but overall, folks who unrepentantly spout nonsense about one thing, damage their credibility re: other things.
mircea_popescu: you can't make chroot work
trinque: whysat
mircea_popescu: that's the dirty secret behind 20 years of "linux"
trinque: oh on linux
mircea_popescu: because, conceptually, it is nonsense.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually it is the dirty secret behind 40 yrs of unix
asciilifeform: but yes.
mircea_popescu: there's a deep reason permissions don't fucking work
mircea_popescu: that reason is that intelligent people do not wish to spend their time working on idiocy
mircea_popescu: and they do wish to tell themselves that they can ever work on "something else"
mircea_popescu: because hey, engineers not psychiatrists, right ?
asciilifeform: unix perms are the proverbial 'pissing-section in swimming pool'
trinque: lol, I understand
trinque: makes sense.
mircea_popescu: that's what the jwz dood quite typically told me : that he "doesn't care about whatever political bone i have toi pick"
asciilifeform: for those who don't follow the antics of lunatics: usg is -obsessed- with domain segregation
mircea_popescu: as if that's what happened, i was sitting on an exercise ball one day and spontaneously decided hey, let me make a political party and pick bones!
asciilifeform: to the point of commissioning $maxint cpu archs that pretend to do it
trinque: ah that makes it very clear.
asciilifeform: ^ to a muppet, any deviation from his muppetology is a schizo paroxysm of irrational
trinque: "pretend to do it" << is exactly the useful thing there
asciilifeform: to jwz et al, google simply 'is' - like the sun.
asciilifeform: to briefly return to thread, it is not a -total- waste of time to learn what usg imagines 'security' - for its private uses - means.
asciilifeform: even if from purely psychiatric view
asciilifeform: !s what colour are your bits
assbot: 0 results for 'what colour are your bits' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=what+colour+are+your+bits
assbot: What Colour are your bits? - Ansuz - mskala's home page ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVqe7l )
asciilifeform: and we -did- it here
asciilifeform: 'In Paranoia, everything has a colour-coded security level (from Infrared up to Ultraviolet) and everybody has a clearance on the same scale. You are not allowed to touch, or have any dealings with, anything that exceeds your clearance. If you're a Red Troubleshooter, you're not allowed to walk through an Orange door. Formally, you're not really supposed to even know about the existence of anything above your clearance. An
asciilifeform: yone who breaks the rules is a Commie Mutant Traitor, subject to the death penalty. Much of the game revolves around the consequences of the security levels. For instance, Friend Computer might assign a team of Red Troubleshooters to re-paint a hallway that ought to be Orange but was painted Yellow by mistake the Commie Mutant Traitors. It's quite likely in such a case that the Troubleshooters will all end up shooting each o
asciilifeform: ther for treason against Friend Computer, since none of them are allowed to touch the paint, go near the hallway, or talk about their mission, and they're all charged with enforcing the rules on one another.'
asciilifeform: ^ for the record.
mircea_popescu: lol notbad. what is this ?
asciilifeform: the colour essay
asciilifeform: !s monolith
assbot: 9 results for 'monolith' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=monolith
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu even wrote an essay on the subject.
mircea_popescu: lol first time this decade ?
cazalla: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084247 <<< to be fair, you didn't try until 4-5 hours ago
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 15:59:59; thestringpuller: haven't been able to contact cazalla
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Apparently he set the record
mircea_popescu: nice lordosis on the chick... that babe knows how to party.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46800 @ 0.0002719 = 12.7249 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 19-10-2014 18:32:52; asciilifeform: engineers, who (as shown by the 'monolith' gedankenexperiment, search logs) often do not really apprehend how lizard-reich and its subordinate bureaucracies really think.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084081 <<< this, for the record, is kinda ridiculous.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 14:05:13; lobbes: I'd like to believe if I just focus on myself and amass enough wealth I can weasel my way through time
mircea_popescu: might as well make your strategy "to get really really fat"
asciilifeform: 'too fat to hang'
asciilifeform: (some prisoner in usa got a temporary stay of execution on this argument.)
asciilifeform: 'i wus sentenced to hang not heads-off'
cazalla: !rate thestringpuller 1 overpromised and underdelivered on task he set himself for qntra
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0e2233d7dfc2e173
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084116 << whoever the fuck came up with this "binary module loading" bs should be found and named.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 14:54:13; assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:58; nubbins`: "glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration."
mircea_popescu: i can see why this would be useful as an alternative method for very peculiar situations
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, in vast majority of cases, libnss SHOULD JUST CONTAIN ALL!
mircea_popescu: like fucking code is supposed to do.
asciilifeform: many things 'should' xxxxx.
asciilifeform: but the list of 'should but doesn't' appears to grow, grow, every time we turn over a rock.
cazalla: !verify assbot:cazalla.rate.thestringpuller.1:16ae1454fd113b8cc0c781069043ec4cfadbdd32f55f8f028415f9d88daa29df
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for thestringpuller from 2 to 1 with note: overpromised and underdelivered on task he set himself for qntra
asciilifeform: to no surprise of mine
mircea_popescu: that you don't randomly stick binary in my ass is not a "many things"
mircea_popescu: this is rape.
asciilifeform: reminds me
asciilifeform: iirc i killed 'loadable modules' on pogotron but forgot to disable the now-useless mod utils.
asciilifeform: oughta be in the next patch.
mats: 2M s.mpoe buy wall @ 0.00027
asciilifeform: (loadable modules are good for kernel dev work and really not much else.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you even have a clue why the fuck libnss is made that way ?
mircea_popescu: is it to fit it on w/e arm shits ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in so far as i can tell, the problem in question is entirely shot in the head by my dns removal patch.
mircea_popescu: is it to load whatever early ityeration of nsa diddle in systems ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i cannot fathom why it was made this way, other than for the usual reasons.
asciilifeform: there is no conceivable technical justification for it, beyond sloth.
mircea_popescu: who did this ?
asciilifeform: there is also the overall 'rust' resulting from no one ever building static anything whasoever for years.
mircea_popescu: if whoever the fuck is responsible for this crapever shows up in wot he's getting my -.
asciilifeform: one day we will have a simon wiesenthal of crapware.
mircea_popescu: pure anomie, this shit. idiots "doocracying" with no conception of right and wrong whatsoever.
asciilifeform: hunt the gnomes and drag them kicking, screaming, to the stake.
mircea_popescu: "i have tried and so nobody should criticize the steaming pile of dumb dung "
[]bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 142.30184834 BTC. Current weight: 73,553.
[]bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.61572615 BTC. Current weight: 94,475.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: don't expect them to walk in voluntarily
mircea_popescu: i don't expect anything.
asciilifeform: ^ the correct thing to expect.
mircea_popescu: "unfortunately, the way we made this foss software is that it behaves exactly like windows"
asciilifeform: i actually find it interesting how astonishingly well-clustered the 'digerati' set is.
mircea_popescu: "there's nothing wrong with pki, it just fixes dns."
asciilifeform: zawinski lives next to lanier in my head and this is not accidental nor misleading
asciilifeform: even if they never met in the flesh
mircea_popescu: you KNOW this shit even got to be used in the first place because usg said so.
mircea_popescu: "why do we have dns ? it sucks! " "yes but that's how nsa could figure out how to diddle via libnss"
mircea_popescu: "so why are you all pushing pki ? it's fucktarded beyond reason" "no look, it has a whiff of salami right in this spot!"
asciilifeform: in many cases (quite arguably dns included) the turd was an ad-hoc hack from the days of arpa but was cemented in place because guess-why.
asciilifeform: this is a fine point but not unimportant zoologically
asciilifeform: because it is uncommon for the enemy to -invent- a turd ab initio
mircea_popescu: and that, incidentally, is the objection ot poettering : it's not a matter of "doing". the man simply has no conception of right and wrong.
trinque: asciilifeform: so there's u_int32_t defined in sys/types.h but not uint32_t; I would be interested to see what sys/types.h holds for the other folks
asciilifeform: it is normally fished out of a pre-existing latrine.
mircea_popescu: he might as well be a monkey.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just pick one of the preexisting sluts and then prevent washing, sure.
trinque: comment above: /* But these were defined by ISO C without the first `_'. */
mircea_popescu: i will have the heads of the ab-initio people tho.
asciilifeform: there's u_int32_t defined in sys/types.h but not uint32_t << ahahahahaha.
asciilifeform: someone actually wrote that.
asciilifeform: with a straight face.
asciilifeform: and, would probably come up with 'reasons'
asciilifeform: i wonder what would be his 'reasons' after a few days of hanging upside-down over a cobra pit.
asciilifeform: (or insert a more appropriate prelude to a punishment to fit the crime)
trinque begins a debootstrap to see what it craps in sys/types.h
asciilifeform: soooooooo many ways to arrange four bytes.
trinque: asciilifeform: stop trying to stifle people's creativity
asciilifeform: 'friar sank to his knees! sacred sensation! miracle proclaimed! blessed defecation!'
trinque: asciilifeform: said poettering to the porcelain, parting is such sweet sorrow
trinque: debootstrap failed mysteriously the first time
asciilifeform: trinque: from earlier link
asciilifeform: failed how
trinque: I was just being creative
trinque: asciilifeform: couple files didn't download
trinque: reran, went better
assbot: The GNU C Library: Name Service Switch ... ( http://bit.ly/19MOLU5 )
jurov: nss was added to "remove hacks"
jurov: hahaha
asciilifeform: mega-l0l!
mircea_popescu: i don't think nss per se is the problem here however
mircea_popescu: the idea of loading binary modules and breaking static builds is not exactly = to nss.
mircea_popescu: you could have it implemented sanely just as well.
asciilifeform: just as you could have north america ruled by a sane ottoman empire.
asciilifeform: or whatnot.
jurov: i guess they wanted to avoid running standalone process and whatnot
mircea_popescu: you don't even ened a motherfucking process.
mircea_popescu: dude holy hell, no configured file ever existed before ?
asciilifeform: jurov: appreciate that what we are attempting with static build is like digging out one of those lugers ru kids routinely find in the ground and trying to fire it
asciilifeform: it's solid rust
asciilifeform: can barely make out which way the barrel points
jurov: butbutbut we need to support dns resolving with mongodb(r)(tm)!!!
mircea_popescu: and that this made it into c...
jurov: and without(gasp) recompiling libc or running dns servers!
asciilifeform: fortunately we don't have to fill this swamp today
asciilifeform: apply dns-zap patch.
asciilifeform: bitcoin does not need dns for anythign!
nubbins`: for those just catching up
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 4470 @ 0.00037719 = 1.686 BTC [+]
nubbins`: now, lemme give this a whirl
asciilifeform: careful with that one
asciilifeform: once you dump dns seeder, you gotta have some live nodes (!!!) in the seed list
asciilifeform: which, in turn, should not be the hardcoded idiocy
asciilifeform: but passed on commmandline
asciilifeform: i never got around to shitting out a patch to remove the hardcoded seedz
asciilifeform: now that i read that patch, i notice that it does not eliminate -all- occurrences of the dns crapolade
nubbins` perks ears
asciilifeform: there is yet another
asciilifeform: iirc, in the spot where the thing learns own ip.
asciilifeform: bbl, gotta buy food.
nubbins`: what's it sending a POST request to whatismyip.com? :D
asciilifeform: ^ dns query !!
trinque: holy shit no one knows why there's both a u_int32_t and a uint32_t
trinque: the latter is defined in c99
nubbins`: prob because one asshole somewhere along the line had a build error
nubbins`: and "this seems to fix it"
trinque: all I can find is derps going "just include ..."
trinque: NO SHIT
nubbins`: i suppose github could tell you who committed it the first time
nubbins`: i don't keep a list of this type of person, mp may be interested enough to look
jurov: may have been satoshi himself
nubbins`: may have been there from the beginning
trinque: this forum post thing where people pop off with some tape fix rather than explaining what's going on
trinque: blowtorch
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 20:31:31; nubbins`: http://imgur.com/jCUBrdF <<< man i got really skinny after two weeks of diarrhoea
trinque: asciilifeform: could boost be pulling or not pulling this type in based on some kind of config magic?
cazalla: lucky i am not otw to conf, i would so attach a padlock to your ear :P
nubbins`: you could try
trinque: in my /usr/include I see for example this "nettle" thing doing typedef u_int32_t uint32_t;
nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/hOH0HCLl.png << silkscreened biz cards on 160# black paper
trinque: nubbins`: those look great.
nubbins`: really nice texture on the black parts too
nubbins`: dat subtle relief
nubbins`: ok alf i'm applying all 3 of your patches to a fresh 0.5.3.1, should know one way or another in an hour or so
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36956 @ 0.0002719 = 10.0483 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: !up wpalczynski
danielpbarron: nubbins`, nice card
nubbins`: thanks, hand-printed
trinque can suddenly not paste into chrome
nubbins`: typedef paste u_paste32_t;
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64650 @ 0.00027024 = 17.471 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: nubbins`: pls don't trigger me
trinque: I actually typedef'd the missing type to see what happened, and now it's pissed about something else
trinque: would love to show ya >:)
nubbins`: hey, pastebin is hungry
nubbins`: trinque try alf's patch
trinque: link?
trinque: heh yeah I was derping through exactly what he fixed
nubbins`: ah, i wouldn't say it's fixed
trinque: well, he was a notch closer anyway
nubbins`: regardless, try again
trinque: starting clean and logging all output
trinque: but it looked like the stuff not being linked *was* built
nubbins`: i am also at the "cannot find -lssl, -lcrypto" stage
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28800 @ 0.00027 = 7.776 BTC [-]
trinque: nubbins`: what does export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$OURLIBS/lib under the rest of the exports do for you?
trinque: I'm waiting on mine to rebuild
trinque: this is in auto.sh
asciilifeform: <nubbins`> ok alf i'm applying all 3 of your patches << wai wat, 3?!
asciilifeform: the integer retardation patch includes the one from portatron
asciilifeform: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/../../../../lib64/libpthread.a(pthread_cond_wait.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `__gcc_personality_v0' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
asciilifeform: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/../../../../lib64/libpthread.a: error adding symbols: Bad value
asciilifeform: (from trinque's)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59100 @ 0.0002719 = 16.0693 BTC [+]
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> the integer retardation patch includes the one from portatron <<< o look
asciilifeform: it should go without saying that asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation_8685d541f20bcfe8d8cc9fefba663dd861f7b237.patch is not a tree candidate !
asciilifeform: i probably should have specified this in the signed text
asciilifeform: but stating it here for anyone who did not immediately grasp this.
trinque: I dunno what that link error is.
nubbins`: while we're at it, do not operate chainsaws w/ your genitals
danielpbarron: nubbins`, how many of those birds of newfoundland books do you have left? / remind me to get one of those if/when the qntra cards get sent out
nubbins`: danielpbarron we'll be making them for as long as people buy them. i'll set one aside for ya
nubbins`: your if/when is currently an if
nubbins`: i floated a design, nobody was too fussy, nothing else suggested
nubbins` generally doesn't do design work on open-ended spec
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54650 @ 0.00027 = 14.7555 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16146 @ 0.0002719 = 4.3901 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44554 @ 0.00027 = 12.0296 BTC [-]
hanbot: lol i can't year.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0HEN57S.txt )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53400 @ 0.0002719 = 14.5195 BTC [+]
cazalla: mircea_popescu, you might need to edit the s.qntr post
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55400 @ 0.0002719 = 15.0633 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21518 @ 0.00027 = 5.8099 BTC [-]
nubbins`: ^ with asciilifeform's kill-integer and dns-snip patches
BingoBoingo: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00023767 / 0.00025475 / 0.0002719 (11285618 shares, 2,875.10 BTC), 7D: 0.00022189 / 0.00025956 / 0.00028207 (45012775 shares, 11,683.73 BTC), 30D: 0.0001443 / 0.00028991 / 0.0004493 (104171490 shares, 30,200.60 BTC)
BingoBoingo: !t m s.qntr
assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00037719 / 0.00037719 / 0.00037719 (10885 shares, 4.11 BTC), 7D: 0.00033 / 0.00037676 / 0.00037719 (10985 shares, 4.14 BTC), 30D: 0.00020808 / 0.00027399 / 0.00037719 (40462 shares, 11.09 BTC)
nubbins`: i'm not sure if this is confined to my system or not, asciilifeform mod6 danielpbarron ben_vulpes et al
nubbins`: but the local build of openssl doesn't copy its includes over to the ourlibs dir
nubbins`: simply doing this manually and re-running auto.sh brings me back to... uint32_t: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pHmyM0FE
nubbins`: my darwin build put 'em in the right place
ben_vulpes: my debian as well
ben_vulpes: if i recall correctly - it's been a few days
nubbins`: samesies, but i think i'd remember doing this
nubbins`: i'm gonna pastebin my entire build if anyone feels like digging w/ me
nubbins`: oh, too big.
assbot: CoinReport The Antagonist of Bitcoin - CoinReport ... ( http://bit.ly/1GlDOpm )
cazalla: who would've thought americans sit around drinking coffee discussing how much they dislike mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: lol was Garrett Keirns Garr255 or the "Surf Captital Management" douche
nubbins`: haha
nubbins`: "Bryce and I have an esoteric, and funny, similarity. We mutually disdain Romanian cryptographer Mircea Popescu. This is how we start our conversation."
nubbins`: this should be rich
punkman: maybe it's a late april fool's joke?
nubbins`: “It never goes down!” says Bryce, referring to the BTC/UNO exchange rate. “That’s the thing people love about UNO. It never goes down.”
punkman: "He tells his EVUE dream of a RIAA-approved blockchain system that will allow users to keep track of digital content and freely transfer it via internet platforms (i.e. Spotify, iTunes, Windows Media). “People will be able to keep their digital content for life,”"
punkman: my non-riaa-approved content will work just fine in 2115
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124970 @ 0.00027 = 33.7419 BTC [-]
nubbins`: i feel like this is a facebook post, but on a website
nubbins`: i.e.relevant to the two guys in it, and maybe in passing to some of their friends or family
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu's a cryptographer nao?
ben_vulpes: first a girl, now a cryptographer?
ben_vulpes: i guess that's what they call anyone who understands math these days.
ben_vulpes: "The project will be a massive undertaking requiring a large seed investment. "
ben_vulpes: huehuehuehu i got a large seed investment for ya right here buddy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.0002719 = 1.8897 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: bryce will also tell you that reputation doesn't matter either.
funkenstein_: mega lulz, where to start?
danielpbarron: "I design blockchains to have purpose. I want the open-source, decentralized DNM to succeed so I can use my RZR coins to buy weed," quips Bryce.
danielpbarron: does he not have punk kids all over downtown to provide this service??
danielpbarron: when has it ever been difficult to score weed, seriously
BingoBoingo: !up Cogburn
Cogburn: thanks :)
Cogburn: I'm Bryce Weiner :)
danielpbarron: do you gpg?
cazalla: i'm president obama
Cogburn: oh cmon nobody is gonna pop in here and pretend to be me
ben_vulpes: can't trust ya tho
ben_vulpes: welcome to the new world order
ben_vulpes: get your keys sorted, boss
danielpbarron: Cogburn, why do you hate mircea_popescu ?
trinque: "You think someone would do that, just go on the internet and tell lies?"
Cogburn: i don't
Cogburn: i dunno why people think that
Cogburn: we disagree. that's not hate.
Cogburn: adults can disagree
Cogburn: dialectic and all that
cazalla: going by the article, you hate him because you ain't him
danielpbarron: ok why do you disdain him?
danielpbarron: why is he beneath you?
Cogburn: going by the article garret has an axe to grind with him :)
Cogburn: nobody is beneath me. where do you guys get this stuff?
danielpbarron: well he suggested that the sentiment is mutual between you two
Cogburn: he would be wrong
BingoBoingo: Cogburn: Well garret lost people a bunch of money with his Surf Captial Management thing
Cogburn: that would only be one way
danielpbarron: i did a google search for the word "disdain" and got the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one's consideration or respect; contempt.
danielpbarron: and contempt: the feeling that a person or a thing is beneath consideration, worthless, or deserving scorn.
BingoBoingo: And Garrett may or may not also be Garr255 of the Cognitive Mining tire fire
Cogburn: i have never expressed disdain. i have expressed passionate disagreement. that's what consensus is about. like the old days of the greek republics arguing the issues of the day on the senate steps
BingoBoingo: Cogburn: Would you nick happen to be a reference to Rooster Cogburn?
Cogburn: those are garrets words, not quotes
Cogburn: Yes, it is.
assbot: Federal Agent Sells Firearms Via Darknet Market | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1IWX6Be )
cazalla: Cogburn, maybe you should take that up with the surfs up guy instead of us? he wrote it afterall
ben_vulpes: Cogburn: get in the wot?
Cogburn: here's my key ID
ben_vulpes: just so's i can take ye seriously?
Cogburn: had to dig that shit out
Cogburn: 26F3050C
danielpbarron: Cogburn, tell it to assbot
ben_vulpes: Cogburn: you savvy wot?
Cogburn: danke
funkenstein_: i'm interested in riaacoin
Cogburn: who isn't :)
Cogburn: its not alt. it's bitcoin
danielpbarron: "I've developed what I call a Bitcoin Circadian Rhythm. I've noticed my body has begun aligning itself with the 10-minute block time of the Bitcoin Blockchain." << lolol
Cogburn: total misquote
Cogburn: but what are ya gonna do
ben_vulpes: negrate the fucker
ben_vulpes: if you're in the wot that is
Cogburn: i think WoT's are kinda culty
danielpbarron: so when you tweeted this article, you were using the hashtag "#awesome" in a sarcastic manner?
Cogburn: I think it's awesome when people say my name. :)
trinque: !b 3
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2213JV8.txt )
trinque: those two lines in succession made me lol
BingoBoingo: <Cogburn> i think WoT's are kinda culty << It makes a decent shit filter though. The postitive ratings often are no where near as informative as the reasons for the negative ratings
Cogburn: gamification of reputation is for people who can't give a good handshake or a warm, geniune smile when they meet someone.
Cogburn: trustless systems are for people with trust issues
danielpbarron stabs Cogburn
danielpbarron: you know who gives really warm handshakes? scammers.
Cogburn: i dunno. i shook josh garza's hand. unimpressed.
danielpbarron: the same people who always have an explaination at the ready as to why they don't like WoTs
BingoBoingo: Cogburn: Score are the least important thing about a WoT, walking the graph and reading the feedback is
funkenstein_: for the record, i still think you're trolling us :)
Cogburn: not at all
Cogburn: I'm here specifically to remove that misconception
cazalla: Cogburn, it's not so much the wot that can be gamed but yourself
trinque: depends I think as well on initial conditions a great deal.
Cogburn: I do agree with everything MP says, but I do respect him. that's sort of a necessary component of dialectic.
Cogburn: *do not agree
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: It's not that he's trolling. He's stuck in a wilder wester place
Cogburn: We don't all have to agree.
Cogburn: The consensus can be "go fuck yourself"
BingoBoingo: Disagreement is the most valuable thing in the world, especially when its informed
Cogburn: I think we can bullshit the current system by crypto inside of the existing rules and bring about real change. I do not believe in the decentralized anarcho-capitalist utopia as a world-spanning solution to our ills. I think people will live that way if the want to, but real freedom is the ability to say "no"
Cogburn: *by using
funkenstein_: itunes
cazalla: Cogburn, do you read the logs? you seem to have joined pretty quickly after my mentioning of that lulzy article
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Everyone reads the logs
danielpbarron: i told him to join
assbot: The Antagonist of /hashtag/Bitcoin?src=hashhttp://t.co/j9a3G5bvDS via /CoinReportNews/hashtag/Awesome?src=hash
Cogburn: I was invited and I accepted :)
BingoBoingo: cazalla: And if they don't danielpbarron offers them the chance
Cogburn: I do not go where I am not wanted. I'll talk with anyone who wants to talk.
danielpbarron: yeah well you're wearing out my patience with all the spammy smily faces
funkenstein_: do you use itunes?
cazalla: ah, fair enough then
funkenstein_: any of you?
Cogburn: i smile all the time. don't be so grumpy
danielpbarron: and so far all you have to say might as well have been copy pasted from the top comment on a reddit post
BingoBoingo: !up CryptoDustin
Cogburn: Maybe.. but it's my post and my thoughts and you're the one reading articles about me and bitching, so there is that
Cogburn: MP doesn't have the market cornered on being crazy. some of us are just fucking nuts as he is. just not as rich. yet.
danielpbarron: who says he is crazy?
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: He's going off in a way we find weird. Maybe it ends up kinda fruitful.
Cogburn: many people. i fully support his threat to fork bitcoin if gavin's block expansion goes through. he's 100% correct that it is an economic alteration to the network and not simple technical
danielpbarron: what?? he has threatened no such thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51150 @ 0.00027 = 13.8105 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: gavin is the one threatening a fork
Cogburn: ... i'm pretty sure he did
Cogburn: gavin has the keys. he's "that guy"
danielpbarron: what keys?
Cogburn: that's metaphorical
danielpbarron: the ones snipped from the code because they mean nothing?
trinque: Cogburn: with nothing grounding it to reality
Cogburn: that's right
Cogburn: it's 100% bullshit
Cogburn: that's why MP is right
BingoBoingo: Cogburn> gavin has the keys. he's "that guy" << Thermos also has a copy of the "Keys"
Cogburn: poor choice of words on my part
trinque: no problem, but that is the core of the issue
trinque: these clowns are no more "the bitcoin guys" than anyone else
danielpbarron: gavin has the attention poor people who think that talking about bitcoin makes them a part of it somehow
Cogburn: pun intended? what is bitcoin if not the core reference client?
funkenstein_: Alert keys. I hope somebody pushes a cosbycoin message through someday :)
Cogburn: it gets really existential really quickly
danielpbarron: Cogburn, the reference client is here
danielpbarron: not github
funkenstein_: what is the internet if not microsoft IE?
Cogburn: there's an article from late 2013 and i wish i could find it entitled "What if Bitcoin turned Evil?"
Cogburn: 21.co get $120m to make ASICs
Cogburn: let's say they end up to comprise 70% of the network
Cogburn: and add 100m coins
danielpbarron: if you think socialism is good, then bitcoin is evil to you
Cogburn: what are you gonna do about it?
funkenstein_: reject the blocks
danielpbarron: i'm gonna keep running my node that ignores their invalid blocks
Cogburn: so there's now 2 bitcoins
danielpbarron: do i care that hundreds of altcoins exist? nope.
trinque: yes but which diverged?
Cogburn: according to consensus, the 70% wins, right?
danielpbarron: well seeing as how i'm using a node which didn't change rules..
Cogburn: but that's a single entity
funkenstein_: $120m to make orphans
funkenstein_: what's next an riaa-controlled blockchain?
danielpbarron: the consensus of whom? you still have to sell those 100m coins
Cogburn: Looking deeper, that's a silicon valley brain child
BingoBoingo: <Cogburn> according to consensus, the 70% wins, right? << The beautiful thing about concensus is how many releases have been make since $100+ BTC which must agree
Cogburn: that means all those buddies in palo alto that everyone uses will fork to that chain
danielpbarron: good for them. seriously good riddance
danielpbarron: they can have their USGcoin
trinque: and if the economic implications of their fork eventually make the thing worthless, the original will have the posture towards it that it has towards fiat
danielpbarron: !up Cogburn
danielpbarron: get in the WoT would ya
Cogburn: Hehe
Cogburn: I truly hope MP is interested in this because if he wanted to compete with 21.co I would be very down to help.
danielpbarron: if you want to help, the first step is getting in the WoT
trinque: Cogburn: ...sounds like a great reason to register so that you may retain voice and discuss that with him
danielpbarron: that is no optional
assbot: IRC Yeshiva | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCpgkR )
Cogburn: aww that's really cute
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13817 @ 0.00027026 = 3.7342 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Cogburn: As someone else from the borderlands between the middle west and the middle south of the US I swear the WoT doesn't hurt that much
Cogburn: However I'm already 32 degree freemason, so thank you but no thank you
trinque: ^ cold mothafucka
Cogburn: You know the WoT is basically forensic evidence, right?
Cogburn: You sacrifice anonymity?
Cogburn: I'm okay with just a quick visit.
BingoBoingo: <Cogburn> You sacrifice anonymity? << You also gain insurance
Cogburn: For what? People come to my coffee house from bitcoin every few months.
trinque: no one connected to the internet on any device that exists has anonymity
Cogburn: You're welcome, too
danielpbarron: anonymity is overrated, and it isn't for the poor anyway
BingoBoingo: Cogburn: Did you not see mircea_popescu's insurance policy against Obola seizures?
Cogburn: anonymity is a choice
danielpbarron: and nobody is forcing you to register your slave name
BingoBoingo: Cogburn: I mean you did Changetip ISIS...
trinque: loooooool
Cogburn: hahahaha
BingoBoingo: Cogburn: Of all people you might have an interest in sticking your head out here from time to time and getting friendly with people.
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1Y027Q5.txt )
asciilifeform: lol what even is this.
danielpbarron: some guy who thinks he is a big name in bitcoin but needs to acknowledge that he is currently a nobody in the realm that counts
asciilifeform: <nubbins`> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xEsMZtmE << this is actually -correct- behaviour - barfs instead of pulling in system's ssl headers
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> lol what even is this. << Rooster Cogburn's a Marshall on the altcoin wild west
Cogburn: I am very friendly. I was invited and I showed up.
Cogburn: I do have things to do
asciilifeform: <nubbins`> simply doing this manually and re-running auto.sh brings me back to... uint32_t ... << aaaaand this is where my patch in turn b0rks the thing. 'the doctor cured the patient's ear, but did poke out an eye, i fear'
Cogburn: There's always twitter
funkenstein_: thanks for stopping by
asciilifeform: 'Romanian cryptographer Mircea Popescu...' << l0l
Cogburn: it's a pleasure. i'm glad i did. i didn't realize that people thought i hated MP or something. I don't hate anyone. Life is too short.
BingoBoingo: <Cogburn> There's always twitter << Stop by again. Just remember on Twitter danielpbarron tends to bite harder than here.
asciilifeform: Cogburn: where do you know (?) mircea_popescu from ?
Cogburn: being critical isn't hate. i'm not above being criticized. I do and say dumb shit like anyone does. I'm also kinda nuts.
cazalla: Cogburn, it's your friend who gave such an impression, not us
Cogburn: shut happens
Cogburn: *shit
danielpbarron: when condensing thoughts into 140 characters i tend to chop out the nice sounding bits leaving only the necessary harsh words
Cogburn: twitter is like conversation in haiku
trinque: Cogburn: I'm still waiting on an elaboration of this disagreement
Cogburn: MP and I had a little row at the end of 2013 and I think that's where it stemmed from
asciilifeform: <Cogburn> pun intended? what is bitcoin if not the core reference client? << actually Cogburn is right. it very much -is- the reference client. which lives here: http://therealbitcoin.org
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CBlXID )
Cogburn: I literally cannot remember the context
Cogburn: I have no idea what we were talking about
assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 01:30:49; Cogburn: we disagree. that's not hate.
asciilifeform: but could not remember what disagreed about ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25800 @ 0.00027 = 6.966 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !s Bryce
assbot: 5 results for 'Bryce' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=Bryce
Cogburn: i remember the disagreement. there was someone else in it too... i can't remember
assbot: Logged on 26-02-2014 21:09:12; mircea_popescu: anyone know a certain Bryce Weiner ?
Cogburn: i just don't remember what it was about. some esoteric point of anarcho capitalism or some such.
Cogburn: awww
BingoBoingo: Things happen, hopefully people learn
asciilifeform: <Cogburn> You know the WoT is basically forensic evidence, right? << it's more of a signed confession than 'forensic' anything. like the american 'declaration of independence.' 'we hang together or hang separately,' etc.
Cogburn: fair
Cogburn: I'll consider it.
Cogburn: I hadn't seen it expressed that way before
asciilifeform: <Cogburn> that means all those buddies in palo alto that everyone uses will fork to that chain << have you ever seen a tram in the third world ?
asciilifeform: or a train
asciilifeform: notice all the folks hanging off the sides, on the roof ?
asciilifeform: now, are they 'passengers' ?
Cogburn: Let's assume my RIAA project is real. Let's assume it happens, and partners with TIDAL for content provision. If 1,000,000 people listen to 3 minute songs for 1 hour, that's 3,000,000+ TX per block in microtransactions.
asciilifeform: and, do the folks -inside- - who paid for their tickets - need them for anything? does the train need them ?
Cogburn: I understand your analogy better than you think.
asciilifeform: Cogburn: there are more lucrative ways to fleece idiots, you know
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31638 @ 0.00027 = 8.5423 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: Cogburn: RIAA project << i for one would only pay even a penny for something riaa-related if it somehow -takes away- at least the same penny from riaa et al.
asciilifeform: and am not alone in this.
asciilifeform: especially if the sum gets subtracted in human flesh.
funkenstein_: george clinton would agree
Cogburn: I understand. I also appreciate where it is that I say these things.
Cogburn: This is not what I would call a "receptive audience" to my idea.
Cogburn: When we announce officially, I will come back and AMA
mod6: asciilifeform: so, If I wanna play around, I should try gxemul before qemu?
asciilifeform: the other thing is the political nuance here. when you do business with riaa etc. you are banking that 2025 will contain a world where riaa and the usg it is an affiliate of - are still in business
asciilifeform: instead of residing in extermination camps.
Cogburn: I think that RIAA is tired of getting fucked by new technology and drank their own koolaid.
Cogburn: I could be wrong.
funkenstein_: musicians are also tired of getting fucked by the riaa
Cogburn: everyone is tired of getting fucked
Cogburn: that's kinda the point
funkenstein_: lol
Cogburn: we can fix that
Cogburn: that's what my project aims to do
BingoBoingo impressed there is so much lag between axe time and sword time
asciilifeform: Cogburn: from what i read so far, it seems like your 'fix' still involves armed thugs threatening murder to create a 'market.'
Cogburn: if things are going to change, we first have to stop getting fuced
Cogburn: *fucked
Cogburn: stop fucking over each other
Cogburn: then things just change on their own
Cogburn: nice and easy
asciilifeform: pass the lsd plz.
trinque: like that time in history where things went nice and easy
Cogburn: Rome
Cogburn: Say what you want, it fucking worked.
danielpbarron: ah, so you are also in favor of slavery?
asciilifeform: Cogburn: worked -when- ?
Cogburn: how's your paycheck?
Cogburn: are you self employed?
asciilifeform: Cogburn: please specify -when- rome 'worked'
Cogburn: don't talk to me of slavery if you are paid a wage
danielpbarron: i am in favor of slavery
assbot: View the profile of Surf Capital Management ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCutJp )
Cogburn: slavery in our time is a choice
Cogburn: i'm okay with that, so long as there is a choice
danielpbarron: it's always a choice.. between doing as your master says or being beaten
danielpbarron: or starving to death in the wilderness
Cogburn: I appreciate some people just don't want to deal with some shit. That doesn't make them bad.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00027 = 7.695 BTC [-]
trinque: I think ultimately people will choose whatever gives them the best life, and the sad current condition is that this is what they've chosen, because this is all they can see.
Cogburn: I think you're right.
trinque: now, how do you demonstrate that there's a different way of being, defining the world, etc
danielpbarron: slavery isn't the problem with the current state of affairs; it's this mentality of "i should get to eat while also talking back to my master" that has to go
trinque: many ways, probably. but I think it's naive to think that transition happens all nice and easy like
asciilifeform: !up Cogburn
Cogburn: Thank you
Cogburn: I think those of us who get this blockchain bitcoin magic internet money bullshit have the opportunity to demonstrate and lead by example. Quite frankly IDGAF if MP is crazy or I disagree. I think he's doing it right. I think he knows he's doing it right, too :)
Cogburn: It's a tool that provides an opportunity to do something truly different with the world. To take advantage, we must be different.
asciilifeform: Cogburn: i'm rather curious re: what you believe mircea_popescu is doing. 'right' or otherwise.
Cogburn: Leading by example.
Cogburn: "This is my way. Like, don't like, DGAF."
Cogburn: A choice.
asciilifeform: Cogburn: and which 'way' is that ?
asciilifeform: i mean, what does it concretely mean, in your mind
Cogburn: Dunno. Not my problem. I know he has one. I know he's passionate about it. That's what I think is important. The rest is how history will remember our efforts.
asciilifeform: let's say i said 'i think dijkstra was doing it right.' that would imply that i am in favour of structured programming, against the use of 'goto', and in favour of 99.999% of programming students being flunked and similar fraction of the practitioners of that profession - being fired.
asciilifeform: if i say that i -disagree- with dijkstra - then i do not believe these things.
Cogburn: I'm an order out of chaos sort of guy.
Cogburn: I see what's going on. No issues from me.
mircea_popescu: dude who the hell raped the logs.
asciilifeform: Cogburn: are you able to describe even one of the concepts you agree or disagree with mircea_popescu about? or do you just dislike his beard ?
asciilifeform: am i talking to a perl script ?
asciilifeform: late 4/1 joke ?
mircea_popescu: btw, anyone ever got rms' new autoreply ? the one where he goes "i'm on a 48 hour delay like mpex" ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Bryce showed up
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rms' autoreply << never got, but the 48 hour thing is not, afaik, new. he has someone read the mail and pass it on (or not)
BingoBoingo: !s Bryce
assbot: 5 results for 'Bryce' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=Bryce
Cogburn: Hahahah we had a twitter fight a year ago and people think i hate you
asciilifeform: Cogburn: so was it the beard ? or an actual position ?
Cogburn: I apparently did an interview with a blogger antagonistic to you and I wanted to clarify any guilt by association
Cogburn: Okay. I did not ever think that bitcoin would outperform BH.
mircea_popescu: interview ? who for ? wut ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: With Surf Captial Management kid
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084140 << magically, i have never seen any of this irl
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 14:59:47; asciilifeform: what a crock of shit!
mircea_popescu: where is this thing used by millions ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'used' has a very peculiar meaning here
asciilifeform: sorta like high fructose syrup is 'used'
danielpbarron: cazalla, Patch.com reports the arrest of a Massachusetts man who sort to purchase a firearm << should be "sought to purchase" ?
asciilifeform: as in, fed to unsuspecting bipedal cattle
cazalla: danielpbarron, ty
mircea_popescu: but i never seen one.
mircea_popescu: how does it even work, you hash the "public key" and then multiply it with something ? sorta halfass rsa ?
cazalla: <Cogburn> Hahahah we had a twitter fight a year ago and people think i hate you <<< not people, your friend from coinwhatever website
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: since it isn't an actual cryptosystem, you will never -see- it. instead, the bank account of that clown and his university 'sees' the royalties from idiot usg affiliates proclaiming to 'use' it.
mircea_popescu: ah one of those. mkay.
assbot: Identity-Based Encryption (IBE), Boneh-Franklin Algorithm, Private Key Generation, Key Certificates, Cryptography Methods | Voltage Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCxycx )
mircea_popescu: not that the idea is without merit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21184 @ 0.00027029 = 5.7258 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: 1) idiot generates a 'public key' by his email, or name, being hashed
mircea_popescu: any random string being hashable, any random string could be used as a pubkey, in principle. may take some work to mine a usable privkey to go with it, but...
asciilifeform: 2) usg generates a private key to 'go with' the public
asciilifeform: by virtue of the hash being malleable
asciilifeform: then they live happily ever after
asciilifeform: in buttfuck embrace
mircea_popescu: lol how is this encryption
asciilifeform: same way american 'food' is food
mircea_popescu: no but i mean for srs. this could actually be done correctly
mircea_popescu: drive them out of market.
asciilifeform: 'encryption-flavoured extruded product'
mircea_popescu: (yeah yeah i know, as if)
asciilifeform: correctly?!
mircea_popescu: why couldn't i have arbitrary pubkey ?
asciilifeform: you can right now
mircea_popescu: exactly.
asciilifeform: e.g. 'vanitygen'
mircea_popescu: prolly the bruteforce approach doesn't deliver 100%.
asciilifeform: but the asymmetry is required for honest crypto. i.e. if mr luser can determine a privkey to go with luser@luserdom.com than so can you and i
mircea_popescu: i suppose you're right - this service existing is sufficient prooof what it's serving isn't crypto.
asciilifeform: it's a 'keybase'.
asciilifeform: for all i know, 'keybase' is a licensee
asciilifeform: i suppose one can patent a chumpatron.
mircea_popescu: gotta spend that "seed money" somehow.
asciilifeform: 'scheme for relieving idiots of their...'
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084166 << no, implication is "our readership is moronic"
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 15:06:45; asciilifeform: What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket << i do so hate these 'what you need to know' titles. implication is that no serious person would need to know anything else
asciilifeform: i haven't seen anything as insulting to the intelligence of the reader as 'voltage security co.' in many years.
asciilifeform: because, possibly, the flavour of being targeted at folks who go in for cryptological maths, rather than garden-variety schmucks
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's targeted at folks who think the usg is a good idea and windows an operating system.
asciilifeform: it's one thing to pitch 'proof that 1=2' to third-grade children, another - to maths grad students
mircea_popescu: depends. stanford grads prolly buy it.
mircea_popescu: if mit grads anything to go by.
asciilifeform: on the flip side, it gives an almost p.t. barnum-esque air of loud, profanely farting cynical hucksterism. nostalgic.
asciilifeform: sorta the same feeling i used to get when i was a regular reader of 'secret' forums for spammers
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084204 << if you recall, that was taken off because that's how sa owned the forum back during mtgox 1 cent days
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 15:27:23; nubbins`: wow, the latest DDOS attack against the forum seems to have reinstated the ability to change/add avatars
mircea_popescu: so go ahead, sql inject it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform those forums... sorta tardstalk before the bitcoin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00027 = 3.699 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: aha. they even had own 'spamcoins' (using - now, long-dead - centralized spam-money services)
mircea_popescu: people are generally stupid in the same ways.
asciilifeform: it is rare to see an entirely novel stupid invented.
mircea_popescu: kinda why you'd expect governments to do better than they are, really.
asciilifeform: incidentally, one idea for writersey folks - taxonomy of the meaningfully-different forms of bad crypto.
assbot: Mean Streets. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCAeH8 )
asciilifeform: https://craphound.com/spamsolutions.txt << based possibly on this. or in essay form
mircea_popescu: definite flavour of malus enumeratio
asciilifeform: not as a serious guide for humans !
asciilifeform: as a massage.
asciilifeform: jjust like spamsolutions.txt is not a textbook
asciilifeform: enumerations of fallacies - and especially of scams - are not useless
asciilifeform: even if there is a universe full of falsehood. as pointed out, stupidity cuts into equivalence classes.
mircea_popescu: ( ) Extreme profitability of spam << i take it this was 2000ish ?
asciilifeform: earlier.
mircea_popescu: myeah. meanwhile that problem took care of itself.
asciilifeform: iirc written no later than '97
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 15:59:45; thestringpuller: no. i'm going to have to cancel for family reasons related to finance
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:06:28; asciilifeform: nor should nubbins`, or ben_vulpes, or the rest.
mircea_popescu: conceivably this will come down to "use so and so, version no later than X, and you will have to either not use sound or use one of these sound cards"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or the other thing i suggested
BingoBoingo: !up Cogburn
mircea_popescu: what, "posix" ? that's not a thing
asciilifeform: it being, what folks do in school. emulate a machine that is described on half a sheet of paper
asciilifeform: with instruction set such-and-such, this much ram, etc.
asciilifeform: (see rest of thread)
mircea_popescu: emulators are seriously a very bad idea for this.
Cogburn: thank, you but you need not keep voicing me. I'll consider the invitation for the WoT. Glad to clear some things up. Have a great night.
mircea_popescu: i can appreciate the ... spherical chicken appeal.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i do this in life. if you have a reasonably-fast computer, it is tolerable.
asciilifeform: now this'd be for -builds-
asciilifeform: not for running bitcoind -in-.
mircea_popescu: it's a bad idea.
mircea_popescu: you're fighting shit with a taller tower. of shit.
asciilifeform: but no one has suggested a good idea.
mircea_popescu: how about debian sarge ?
asciilifeform: can i re-create it ?
asciilifeform: without downloading bins
mircea_popescu: i think you should STILL be able to yes.
mircea_popescu: but back in 2005, definitely.
mircea_popescu: !up E8888____
asciilifeform: i mean, with my existing compilers.
mircea_popescu: with its own. it's a whole complete universe.
asciilifeform: aha so i gotta download bins
mircea_popescu: not sure about yours, mebbe worth a shit
asciilifeform: besides we had someone try specifically it - ben_vulpes ?
mircea_popescu: we did /
asciilifeform: and turned out that it has a lying gcc
asciilifeform: which includes a type not defined in the src.
asciilifeform: (see yesterday's zoological find)
assbot: Hospitalist Becomes Own Endless Loop | GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCCpKV )
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084286 << this is a correct approach, the problem seems to be however that compilers don't work properly.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:09:47; mod6: Ok, so say that you have installed via offical docs, bla bla bla. Ok, then our release doesn't work. But we need to fix defects, and I refuse to have this happen going forward. So we need something repeatable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i wasn't aware that was on deb sarge.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes awake ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what did you use ?
BingoBoingo: “It was all very surreal. The nurse told me my patient had arrived on the ward. I told her I was the patient. She apparently thought I was making an existential statement and replied ‘aren’t we all just the sum of our patients and our patience’. I know, it doesn’t make any sense to me either now, but at the time it was profound, because, you know, dilaudid. “
assbot: Logged on 01-04-2015 19:08:25; ben_vulpes: ascii_field, nubbins`: debian 6.0.10
mircea_popescu: that is not sarge.
asciilifeform consults table
mircea_popescu: that is 3 major revisions later. looks like modern.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: be so kind as to try the build on one of your debians ?
asciilifeform: untar and ./auto.sh
mircea_popescu: i didn't take any across the ocean ;/
mircea_popescu: well how the fuck was i to know a year later ima be all the way up in thompsoncpp
mircea_popescu: but yes, the execration has occured to me a number of times.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i once seriously toyed with the idea of building with borland cpp 3
asciilifeform: you know, -that- one
mircea_popescu: then again if THAT didn't work it wouldn't surprise me.
asciilifeform: i still miss that thing.
mircea_popescu: yes i had it, my f9 was illegible
mircea_popescu: note btw your ss is in romanian.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32427 @ 0.00027 = 8.7553 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: unsurprisingly
Adlai: BingoBoingo: no, the best part: McSwagger was awakened from a deep sleep by his pager, only to find out that he was being called by his own nurse, apparently because he needed something for sleep
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084315 << you're more than welcome to play with an emulator if you wish to broaden your horizon, but it is broadly inadequate for what we're trying to do here.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:16:41; nubbins`: so maybe we can start there
pete_dushenski reading logs, smacked with similarities between weiner / cogburn and charlie from mean streets
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the problem is that the pc architecture (as a standard that you can hard-hold a vendor to) is dead.
asciilifeform: e.g., i literally can't buy my main pc again.
mircea_popescu: this is a problem.
pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFWV-mfMdw8 << if this be the same weiner that keeps derping with seamonster
assbot: Bitcoin Chat With Crypto Mogul Bryce Weiner! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HppT0m )
asciilifeform: possibly, very slowly, out of antiquarian collectible parts.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25155 @ 0.00027 = 6.7919 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: of fuck knows what provenance.
mircea_popescu: but pretending like magic works isn't a solution to it.
mircea_popescu: look, qemu is essentially a hypervisor.
mircea_popescu: if hypervisors fixed bad osen microsoft'd have been long fixed.
asciilifeform: when used as classical qemu (with accelerator) there is no hypervisor
asciilifeform: can emulate pc on vax
asciilifeform: or vax on pc
asciilifeform: hypervisor is a very other animal, where certain instructions are emulated ('sensitive' ring0 ones) while most execute naked.
mircea_popescu: but only provided the underlying os behaves.
asciilifeform: popular hypervisor: vmware
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we have a confusion of terminology here. an emulator is, for instance, 'zsnes' - popular 'super nintendo' emul
asciilifeform: works on soviet 'elbrus' as well as american '486'
asciilifeform: and regardless of what the nintendo proggy does, cannot crash the elbrus
mircea_popescu: so far this is a hypervisor.
asciilifeform: because we are essentially interpreting the snes instructions
asciilifeform: hypervisor has a specific meaning
mircea_popescu: "works on another machine. check. client can't crash kernel. check"
mircea_popescu: yes. that special meaning is "runs vms"
asciilifeform: actually the rub with hypervisor is that the 'guest' -can- affect the 'host' quite often.
mircea_popescu: but this because hypervisor is badly implemented.
assbot: Teen son of Canadian Consul General arrested after brother killed in drug deal | Miami Herald Miami Herald ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpqDCK )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the short version of the difference is that a 'hypervisor' emulates -certain- instructions, that are understood to modify the global state of the machine in ways which would allow the guest os to monopolize the hardware (e.g., write a block to the disk at index I) whereas an emulator emulates -all- instructions executed by the guest
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: how stupid and ballsy are these consul's kids that they "planned to rob the drug dealers "
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a minor point, but anyway.
pete_dushenski: why can't they just buy coke from a classmate like normal kids of consuls ?
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I dunno, what's going on in the Canadia
asciilifeform: very major point in practice
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski "The teens are the sons of Roxanne Dubé, who only recently assumed the role of consul general in Miami. A former Fulbright scholar, she has extensive diplomatic experience, having worked as an aide in Parliament and as the ambassador to Zimbabwe."
asciilifeform: hypervisor requires host and guest architectures to be same.
mircea_popescu: and there you have your problem.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notrly.
asciilifeform: emulator can be of anything you like, whether the computer from 'apollo' space probe, or one that i made up for the occasion.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: not that anything does, but "Wabafiyebazu" isn't that canadian
mircea_popescu: plenty of 32 bit run on 64 bit that way for instance.
asciilifeform: 32 is subset
pete_dushenski: s/does/is
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Is Rob Ford contagious?
asciilifeform: x86_64 contains specific provisions for running a process in 'short' (x86) mode
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: you're closer to derpbama than i to ford ;)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, granted, it's "a better hypervisor". still runs on another os.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I'll need to get a map to check that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30900 @ 0.0002719 = 8.4017 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sometimes, you can take the contents of the emulator and - if it exists and you have it in your collection - run it on physical iron
mircea_popescu: sometimes i fall asleep on one girl and wake up atop another.
asciilifeform: same idea.
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't propose this for anyone else.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, this is lieke 90% of what i'd want a 2nd pet for
asciilifeform: 2nd 'stator'
asciilifeform: (if fella who turns, is 'rotor')
mircea_popescu: inb short : it'd be great if emulators as you conceptually represent one existed and work. they do not. what we need is a distro to set in stone.
asciilifeform: for fucks sake, they exist and i use them every day for past decade.
mircea_popescu: are you running this in an emulator ?
asciilifeform: 'this' - no
mircea_popescu: why not ?
asciilifeform: most of what passes for my day job - yes
asciilifeform: why not << because no reason to take 25x cpu hit
mircea_popescu: most of which isn't bitcoind-like
mircea_popescu: suppose your emulated bitcoind forks. what do you do ?
asciilifeform: win turing prize.
mircea_popescu: yeah well.
asciilifeform: spend on burial.
asciilifeform: anyway the point, again, would not be to ever -run- bitcoind in the dog-slow emulated linux
asciilifeform: but to cross-compile for normal machine (ibmpc, pogo, vax, whatever)
asciilifeform: using -known- set of mechanisms.
asciilifeform: as in, putting an actual cork in the os/libs/cpu/etc
mircea_popescu: but this is essentially naive. because, again, the bitcoind is not the code you read, but the binary that runs.
asciilifeform: as in 'here they are and this they shall be in 3015 running on Aldan-XVIII cpu'
asciilifeform: yes, the bin. small enough to eventually disasm & read.
mircea_popescu: if your binary that runs can not be run by your golden standard
asciilifeform: can, why not.
mircea_popescu: you essentially have managed to divorce a new academia out of engineering
mircea_popescu: this is the last thing we want.
asciilifeform: that'd be a monumentally strange thing to do. but not what suggested.
asciilifeform: suggested nailing down a machine spec
mircea_popescu: it is what'd happen.
asciilifeform: that can be replicated
asciilifeform: in the way that we are too poor (yes, poor) to do with tangible machine yet.
mircea_popescu: how do you distinguish a bug in the os from a bug in the emulator from a bug in the code ?
asciilifeform: that's the thing, bug in emulator is catastrophic
asciilifeform: but think of it as a skyscraper foundation. there is tremendous pressure on it
mircea_popescu: so you want me to pull in more code than the openssl. with worse risk outlook.
mircea_popescu: and your explanation is... "Well many people checked it"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when you dig out your old laptop with 'pentium I', guess what you're pulling in
asciilifeform: at least emulator code - i can sit down & read.
asciilifeform: try read internals of 'pentium I'
mircea_popescu: except your emulator still runs on pentium i in question
mircea_popescu: with who knows what dirty hacks everywhere to make it "portabler"
asciilifeform: or soviet 'iskra'
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, portability worst fucking idea in computing!)
asciilifeform: or my mips-on-fpga that exists nowhere but my living room
asciilifeform: or it runs in my head & a pencil
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can't see this as anything but "adding more bad code".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is right, but in the same way as a fella taking penicillin is 'swallowing poison'
asciilifeform: technically -yes.
mircea_popescu: i don't have anything against running test versions of golden-bitcoind on anything, including toasters, gameboys, toasters emulated on gameboys etc
mircea_popescu: but that's a different discussion.
asciilifeform: ideally i would not even suggest something as terrifyingly unpleasant as - in effect - giving everyone a 486.
asciilifeform: which is what emulator amounts to.
asciilifeform: but what is the alternative whereby each of us ends up with 1) EXACTLY same machine 2) one we can still get 1000 years later
asciilifeform: or even month later.
mircea_popescu: no, we've not even come to the discussion where "it's entirely unclear desktop with bitcoind in quemu can even process blocks in 10 minutes each"
mircea_popescu: we're still atthe principle of the matter.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: believe or not - can.
asciilifeform admits he tried
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with trying it.
asciilifeform: (on what? modest box circa '07)
asciilifeform: but none of it changes the fundamentally bowel-loosening fact of discovering that 1) extant linuxen are incompatible in eldritch ways 2) that impact bitcoind build
asciilifeform: and 3) static builds never really worked for items of any complexity
asciilifeform: because 4) we have a rusted-solid 'luger' from 1941
mircea_popescu: so far, i'm a) chasing whoever the fuck broke the world by making an idiotic libnss and b) unconvinced the problem's more than that dns bs.
asciilifeform: that we tried to fire and somehow surprised
asciilifeform: i think we shot (a) in the head
asciilifeform: (dns removal. but one more tumour growth left, the external-ip getter)
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 15:17:35; asciilifeform: my dns seed snip patch never made it in the realease, did it
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:32:29; nubbins`: but hey. the plural of anecdote is proof, yes?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform THE PROBLEM STILL EXISTS.
mircea_popescu: even if not in our code anymore
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 21:50:57; asciilifeform: bitcoin does not need dns for anythign!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, exists
mircea_popescu: well yes. im chasing the culprit. i wish to know who the fuck thought this is a good idea.
asciilifeform: i humbly request a copy of r. stevens's 'tcp/ip' bound in his skin.
asciilifeform: will also accept pike's 'unix prog. envir.'
mircea_popescu: more like it.
asciilifeform has a list.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084405 << the reason they're doing this is obvious. they want to find bugs.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:34:58; jurov: even openbsd prefers to maintain racks of obsolete hardware to running emulators
asciilifeform: must add also that the possibility of emulating a reasonably unix-capable computer is relatively recent. in university 'operating systems' courses in '99 folks were still rebooting actual pc, with floppy, 500 times a day. in 2006 - qemu.
asciilifeform: (and the occasional floppy/pc)
asciilifeform: my brother had one - i had the other
mircea_popescu: nobody is disputing it's a very useful tool for many things.
mircea_popescu: well, not i at any rate.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you recall the 'specificity of diddling' thread ?
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2015 23:42:12; asciilifeform: for the benefit of n00bs, i will briefly elaborate
asciilifeform: related.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084446 << lol wait, they came full circle to the actual goal, usg's own bitcoin ?
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:43:36; asciilifeform: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/urbit-dev/zhMRI9hn4KI/bMYtcr9o5QkJ << unrelated mega-l0l
mircea_popescu: "Writing an empty stub is an extremely bad practice and should only be done in desperation, because at the urbit level it produces a system event log that is nonrepeatable, or at least noncompliant with the nock spec. Discrepancies propagate rapidly in any kind of replay. You should be able to turn off all jets and get the same result. This is not practical, but it is practical if you disable everything but a few ba
mircea_popescu: sic math functions.
mircea_popescu: As a development methodology it's often useful to write hoon that tracks an existing C routine rather than the other way around, but even this needs to be done quite carefully to avoid jet discrepancies."
mircea_popescu: i liked that part.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.0002719 = 3.2356 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: they'll eat their pants before admitting it's 'usg bitcoin'
mircea_popescu: well for one thing it's not ok to admit yarvin is orlov in a different color scheme
asciilifeform: lol, what color ?
mircea_popescu: for the other it's not ok to admit urbit exists strictly because a) yarvin's chumpatron attempt failed just at the time b) usg was looking for a particular tool
mircea_popescu: scooped it up cheapo.
mircea_popescu: so i guess two can't admits make it a mindblowing evil thing.
asciilifeform: close. exists because y dropped out of grad school to play original 'dotcom' chumpamatic
mircea_popescu: right. but that's half the story.
asciilifeform: and sorta wanted to get back to these two highlights of his youth
mircea_popescu: his mantears over bitcoin existing coupled with a certain need for "Expertise" in certain quarters...
asciilifeform: i actually read his 'all bitcoin users will be gassed' thing as honest defeatism
asciilifeform: but can't even tell now.
mircea_popescu: the man is not honest.
mircea_popescu: im starting to notice a pattern here, he reads exactly like yak guy, once i read yak guy
asciilifeform: brings to mind,
asciilifeform: Orwell: ‘Do you really want to see your children grow up Nazis?’
asciilifeform: The youth: ‘Nonsense! You don't suppose the Germans are going to encourage Fascism in this country, do you? They don't want to breed up a race of warriors to fight against them. Their object will be to turn us into slaves. That's why I'm a pacifist. They'll encourage people like me.’
asciilifeform: Orwell: ‘And shoot people like me?’
asciilifeform: The youth: ‘That would be just too bad.’
asciilifeform: Orwell: ‘But why are you so anxious to remain alive?’
asciilifeform: The youth: ‘So that I can get on with my work, of course.’
assbot: George Orwell: As I Please -- 1943 ... ( http://bit.ly/1I9faus )
mircea_popescu: there was a very apt summary in that physicits's criticism. i suppose i should look it up.
asciilifeform: mr mold decided that he was anxious to remain alive. i can't really see why.
assbot: Eliezer Yudkowsky - Wikiquote ... ( http://bit.ly/1I9fhWN )
mircea_popescu: hey, does wikiquote have a page of quotes from my cat yet ?
asciilifeform: no but almost
asciilifeform: i think they have naggum's cat.
assbot: Anonymous derpage pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pBuh84 )
mircea_popescu: it's eerie just how connected stupidity is.
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