Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-12-23 | 2014-12-25 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11521 @ 0.00065647 = 7.5632 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5739 @ 0.00065647 = 3.7675 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00064466 = 1.6117 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00064466 = 7.9938 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up austeritysucks
BingoBoingo: !up punkman1
assbot: Discus Fish Donates Namecoins to Namecoin Developers | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1wjABO1 )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2000 @ 0.0012081 = 2.4162 BTC [-] {7}
jurov: <mircea_popescu> somehow nobody goes "o look, mp paid 100s of btc so bitcoin financial space may exist" << you know, that space practically does not exist for them
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30300 @ 0.00062326 = 18.8848 BTC [-]
jurov: coinbr s.mpoe divs finally paid. to compensate for the waiting, twice the amount ;)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88350 @ 0.00061937 = 54.7213 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00063022 = 8.7285 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14750 @ 0.00061543 = 9.0776 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29700 @ 0.00061543 = 18.2783 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: It was the day before X-Mas, all was silent, even in #b-a. Nothing stirred, not even a bot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00062328 = 2.9294 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: I guess it technically is already XMas for cazalla
jurov: <mike_c> [20141223 14:37] have you ever thought about adding the ability to short mpex stocks to coinbr? << coinbr is on hold atm. on one side it didn't make almost anything this year, on other side mpex is just not there reliability wise for solid service
jurov: and i don't mean puny dns errors, but stuff like vanishing orders
thestringpuller: oh no. jurov what does that mean for customers?
jurov: it means...same as before. you notice glitches, i'll exchange gpg blobs with mircea and eventually fix it
jurov: and i had inquiries like "we want api for coinbr" me: "it is possible, just very ratelimited... let's do it together, can you do 100BTC volume?"
jurov: they: "um... dunno.. let me ask"
thestringpuller: heh understood
thestringpuller: thx for the extended transparency and due diligence with your fiduciary duty
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19706 @ 0.00061543 = 12.1277 BTC [-]
dignork: jurov: sorry to hear that, i like coinbr
dignork: :( sorry, I'm leaving states in a few days, gift cards are of no use for me, otherwise I'd buy some from you.
dignork: wrong chan
jurov: O.o lol
dignork: jurov: gift cards are not for you, hopefully you don't need this bizarre substitute :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2365 @ 0.00120319 = 2.8455 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: CIA Assessment on Surviving Secondary Screening - page 15 ... ( http://bit.ly/1B1nSnM )
jurov: kakobrekla: do you have prepared cover story when flying to argentina?
jurov: or, even more important, when coming back :)
kakobrekla not going there afaik.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9978 @ 0.00062328 = 6.2191 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00060714 = 17.1213 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: good to know, i'm not going either
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50300 @ 0.00058305 = 29.3274 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6021 @ 0.00057637 = 3.4703 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10505 @ 0.00056402 = 5.925 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: :[
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5624 @ 0.00055393 = 3.1153 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: jurov, kakobrekla not going !?
asciilifeform: damn, who is !?
asciilifeform: jurov: why not going ?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla we know is a miser, but jurov ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I don't think people really stay in this channel unless they are misers.
asciilifeform: !s official miser
assbot: 1 results for 'official miser' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=official+miser
dignork: hey, i'm not a miser, just not too wealthy :)
jurov: lol i'm a miser too... why you though otherwise?
jurov: *thought
kakobrekla: misery keeps us feed.
xanthyos: we're not all misers.
kakobrekla: fed i mean.
xanthyos: there's an appeal to the pageantry of misery
xanthyos: counting stacks of gold coins in a dark room
jurov: asciilifeform prolly mistook wao for my personal driver :DDD
kakobrekla: but idk if im a misser
kakobrekla: i could live on even less than this.
kakobrekla: much less.
kakobrekla: (go 500km south and everything is half price or less)
jurov: southern somalia?
jurov: :D
kakobrekla: no, but im srs.
jurov: yea i know. i am fine with 25k eur before taxes this year, even paid part of a new car from that
kakobrekla: i paid 500 btc for the car but no taxes.
jurov: 500? you bought tesla?
kakobrekla: no, thats like 100 or something :D
kakobrekla bought the car back in the year when btc was 10bux or smth
jurov: heh
kakobrekla: but now im stuck with it as the thing wont amortize over 750k years
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: are you working? (do you celebrate xmas?)
mod6: asciilifeform: are you going to b-a?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2136 @ 0.0005925 = 1.2656 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00059442 = 7.3114 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: So Today I came out once again net positive in the course of my Christmas shopping.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00060376 = 7.0036 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: My favorite liquor store for the second year in a row gifted me with a bottle of wine and a girly calendar when I came in for cigarettes.
thestringpuller: "Oh hey it's bingoboingo! Ah, we love 'dis guy! Merry Christmas muthafucka!"
BingoBoingo: Pretty much how it went.
BingoBoingo: Honestly I think they do it to get rid of whatever wine wasn't selling.
thestringpuller: the girly calendar is a nice touch tho
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12964 @ 0.00059442 = 7.7061 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00057802 = 8.7859 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch
BingoBoingo: So... Beat CCN and CoinDesk to that one.
thestringpuller: hopefully we can beat them on this other story too
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.118 = 1.18 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: Well, that in your hands
davout: BingoBoingo: i really like your articles
BingoBoingo: davout: Thank you
BingoBoingo: It's taken some time getting the right balance of dense enough and informative enough for newswriting
davout: in other news josh garza gets an 'honorable mention' in coindesk's list of 'bitcoin's most influential people of 2014'
thestringpuller: looking more like he owns coindesk...
BingoBoingo: I thought CoinDesk was still a VC thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00055146 = 5.5697 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 322.76, Best ask: 323.91, Bid-ask spread: 1.15000, Last trade: 323.93, 24 hour volume: 6248.93897115, 24 hour low: 322.0, 24 hour high: 338.99, 24 hour vwap: 332.111093959
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4843 @ 0.00055976 = 2.7109 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14232 @ 0.00058554 = 8.3334 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 335729 | Current Difficulty: 3.945767130713873E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 336671 | Next Difficulty In: 942 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 4 hours, 44 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 38511034395.1 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.39912
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00057655 = 5.4196 BTC [-]
decimation: https://www.ece.cmu.edu/~safari/pubs/kim-isca14.pdf << "By reading from the same address in DRAM, we show that it is possible to corrupt data in nearby addresses"
decimation: asciilifeform: look at that, some academics actually studying hardware
dignork: decimation: cool paper, scary, otherwise I didn't bother to calcualte probabilities for uncontrolled random scenario, or non-DOS attack vector.
decimation: note that ECC is only a partial mitigation
dignork: yep, so it reducues random occurences, but i still don't see any good attacks with it.
dignork: *reduces
decimation: umm, you can corrupt the victim's memory by executing a loop?
dignork: well, the thing is, if you already can write into his memory, at very specific locations, you probably already running there :)
decimation: don't need to write, only read
dignork: well, same difference, you still run on his machine for this.
jurov: not necessarily
jurov: there's certainly a way how to remotely cause already present software to repeatedly read memory
decimation: for example, a crafted javascript or maybe just plain html web page
dignork: well, sure, but these reads need to happen nearby executed code, which by random error turns into something executable, etc. Just can't construct any scenario it realisticly happens. But I might be wrong.
assbot: BBC News - Vodka prices: Putin calls for cap amid economic crisis ... ( http://bit.ly/1wGzldf )
jurov: dignork you certainly did not read
jurov: "nearby" does not mean near addresses
dignork: jurov: chip address line, verifying your chip line from javascript?
jurov: because there are clever interleaving schemes to allow for faster reading
decimation: dignork: are you implying that javascript doesn't use ram?
dignork: it does, but it's rather sandboxed.
jurov: dignork: do browsers have randomized addresses for loading js? iirc not
jurov: js could corrupt browser core memory few pages away in this scenario
decimation: certainly the js memory is not randomly moved every context switch
jurov: not even every startup
dignork: so it normally cannot read your /dev/whatever to check the physical location, but sure, it's potentially DOS/crash, not an effective code execution.
jurov: why not? if js in certain version of firefox can reliably cause fast repeated reads at address X, thus affecting addresses Y,Z
jurov: we know what code/data is at Y,Z
dignork: we cause a random pattern error at this position...
dignork: chances of sucessfull execution drop to 0
dignork: well, not absolute 0, but some very small negligible %
jurov: "B and C modules heavily favored 1->0 errors." << not random pattern error
jurov: and "behavior of most victim cells depended of other cells" << also usable for information exfiltration
dignork: so you have some more than frequent pattern, it should match the actual data that you want to write.
BingoBoingo: !up moldysnizz
dignork: Oh, reading, even with noise, border cells might be usefull though, haven't seen it.
BingoBoingo: !up bitspill
BingoBoingo: !up bitstein
decimation: at any rate, it's proof of the kind of error against which asciilifeform regularly pontificates, that is, a hardware error that is known only to the vendors of the chips
BingoBoingo: !up badon
jurov: https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~appel/papers/memerr.pdf << there was already research on using much more random memory errors than this
assbot: Page Not Found | Computer Science Department at Princeton University ... ( http://bit.ly/1wGBCVC )
dignork: yep, scary.
assbot: UPDATE: Cookie Monster Leaves Sesame Street Hospital AMA on Christmas Eve | GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1wGDhuv )
BingoBoingo: !up Dimsler
dignork: jurov: thanks for the link, haven't read the actual method before, it's awesome.
cazalla: thestringpuller: I guess it technically is already XMas for cazalla <<< 830am xmas morning but still, cuppa tea and read logs before my first family xmas opening gifts
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14550 @ 0.00058967 = 8.5797 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: https://devuan.org/newsletter_22dec.html << they claim to be self-hosting already
assbot: Devuan - the GNU/Linux by Veteran Unix Admins. ... ( http://bit.ly/13wyXBY )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.00120003 = 1.2 BTC [-]
jurov: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8788532 if anyone cares, i don't have hn account
assbot: Good IRC channels | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/13wABn2 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28795 @ 0.00057951 = 16.687 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00057951 = 6.9541 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: !up austeritysucks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10600 @ 0.00057951 = 6.1428 BTC [-]
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-boy-blog-network/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44600 @ 0.00059078 = 26.3488 BTC [+] {4}
asciilifeform: memory paper << snore. 1) serious folks using dram - use ecc dram. 2) serious folks do not allow opponent to execute arbitrary strange on their von neumann box 3) serious folks doing truly serious things use sram.
asciilifeform: for aficionados of dram diddling,
asciilifeform: !s bitsquatting
assbot: 7 results for 'bitsquatting' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bitsquatting
asciilifeform: and related pursuits.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17550 @ 0.00059698 = 10.477 BTC [+]
assbot: CDC reports potential Ebola exposure in Atlanta lab - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/13wJdtY )
assbot: Introducing Slur ... ( http://bit.ly/13wKC3z )
Adlai likes how they talk about it in present tense, then later ask for money so they can build it
asciilifeform: Adlai: honeypot.
asciilifeform: and site has 'flash.' QED.
assbot: u99/slur · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/13wKMYG )
asciilifeform: and disputes settled by showing the actual secret to five randomly selected lusers
asciilifeform: what a joke.
asciilifeform: d3m0cr4cy!!
assbot: Stargazers · u99/slur · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/13wKRf3 )
asciilifeform: 'Fund with a credit card'
Adlai: i'm almost curious to see what this download is
asciilifeform: dreary usg (and useful-idiots) claptrap.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1160 @ 0.00120495 = 1.3977 BTC [+] {3}
Adlai: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8794707 << we're about to find out the width of the venn diagram intersection between #startups and here
assbot: #bitcoin-assets on freenode is a good one with frequent discussion | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/13wLx49 )
Adlai: ... is it just me or does HN have job ads now
Adlai: hm. haven't poked around this corner of the internet much lately
asciilifeform: 'slur' << i love how these nitwits show no symptoms whatsoever of having bothered to study how secrets were sold historically, from babylon to cold war, etc
asciilifeform: what it actually takes in real life, to establish the kind of relationships needed
asciilifeform: no. why would they do that. we have l33t crypt0-d00dz now.
Adlai: not all secrets are equal
asciilifeform: arbitrators won't immediately run off and do whatever the fuck they like with the secret because... because what? magical drm goggles glued onto their skulls?
asciilifeform: i deliberately didn't even bring up the whole thing's (almost certain) reliance on tor and related idiocy
Adlai: it's also written in C!!!
asciilifeform: it's dreary and insults the reader's intelligence merely by existing.
assbot: u99/slur · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1xiAjOG )
cazalla: i remember reading about these u99 guys, have another project named coinmesh
Adlai: oh crap, they slapped a GPL on the null codebase. now every new project must be GPLed
cazalla: really just seems a way to scam donations
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41786 @ 0.00060128 = 25.1251 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26716 @ 0.00060266 = 16.1007 BTC [+]
dignork: slur - like openbazaar, but no working prototype or code.
asciilifeform: dignork: forget code. the thing, as stated on own site, doesn't even threaten to make elementary sense.
dignork: well, same "Ricardian Contracts", but dumbed down and badly misused.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25301 @ 0.00060888 = 15.4053 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50300 @ 0.00061555 = 30.9622 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00060882 = 11.2023 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59200 @ 0.00058006 = 34.3396 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: The Toxoplasma Of Rage | Slate Star Codex ... ( http://bit.ly/13ZGWIM )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1389 @ 0.00119263 = 1.6566 BTC [-] {17}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 876 @ 0.00119 = 1.0424 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00057674 = 12.1404 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: TATRAN - WW III (Album Version) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zUGKFo )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31909 @ 0.00057489 = 18.3442 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: "The richest 500 addresses have continued to accumulate bitcoin through all the highs and lows."
kakobrekla: !s blockchain return hack
assbot: 0 results for 'blockchain return hack' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=blockchain+return+hack
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6380 @ 0.00055142 = 3.5181 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42900 @ 0.00057126 = 24.5071 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17197 @ 0.00058063 = 9.9851 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00059869 = 5.2685 BTC [+]
decimation: slur << that's the dumbest thing I've heard yet
decimation: asciilifeform: re: ecc dram << the paper claims that they can cause so many errors that it overpowers 'correct one detect two' style ECC dram
decimation: try buying a laptop with ecc dram
decimation: http://www.acmeportable.com/products/netpac#specs-section << here's one, only weighs 24 lbs and comes with a fritz chip
asciilifeform: decimation: overpowers << skeptical until demonstrated in field (i.e. x86 pc) rather than laboratory (fpga with custom dram controller)
asciilifeform wrote a ddr2 controller for 'xilinx' chip once. it is amazingly easy to create a dysfunctional one with behaves like, for instance, the one pictured in that paper.
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
asciilifeform: just forget a refresh sometimes. or violate one of the many mandatory command sequences.
asciilifeform: or, or.
asciilifeform: instant strange.
decimation: yeah, that's a fair point
asciilifeform: i experimented with using a 'refresh-starved' dram for computation.
asciilifeform: and even as a particle detector.
decimation: as kind of a pseudo analog computer?
asciilifeform: nothing pseudo about it.
decimation: did you succeed in detecting particles?
asciilifeform: not to my satisfaction.
asciilifeform: (certainly detected - something.)
decimation: ideally one would find a simultaneous set of 'hits' over an area so one could backtrack the cosmic rays
asciilifeform: works best with a 'sandwich' of dies.
decimation: asciilifeform: there's probably an nda'ed talmud of errata that is supplied to the actual chipset dealers
Adlai: how would you use it for computation?
decimation: who knows if the authors had access to such knowledge
asciilifeform: errata in dram ?
asciilifeform: times are dire, if errata for dram.
decimation: yeah w.r.t. exact timings, refresh rates, things
asciilifeform: normally these are determined experimentally.
asciilifeform: ask a 'bios tweak' aficionado.
decimation hasn't closely examined a dram datasheet
asciilifeform had that one printed & bound
decimation: asciilifeform: did you implement ddr2 bus on an fpga?
decimation: I've heard from folks who have that it is a pain in the ass
asciilifeform: virtually impossible to do well from scratch (vs vendor turdware) without the unobtainable internal docs
decimation: it can be done, it just takes many man-months of experimentation with a particular set of hardware
asciilifeform: incidentally, fpga work shits straight into the faces of folks who think that 'anything can be slow-prototyped'
asciilifeform: you can't slow-prototype a dram controller!
asciilifeform: it's an all-or-nothing affair.
asciilifeform: either runs, or not.
asciilifeform: conform to the timing diagram - or die.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33750 @ 0.00057621 = 19.4471 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: decimation: months of experimentation << the end result is a product which cannot be understood, function of which cannot be rationally explained, and which will break on the slightest deviation from the parent hardware
asciilifeform: aka a turd.
decimation: yeah, that's pretty much the case. the vhdl codebase is littered with 'don't touch this' crazy code
asciilifeform will not read or write vhdl for love or money
asciilifeform: verilog is at least tolerable
decimation: vhdl comes with layers of bureaucracy
decimation: all of which is abused by the vendor tools & magically wedged with vendor ip
asciilifeform: xilinx ships a set of identially-functioning turdlibraries for both languages.
asciilifeform: each ultimately a set of wrappers around closed blobs.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i made an app, called the asciilifeform turd counter
asciilifeform: most of the more complicated ones being unusable in practice (e.g. ethernet controller that 'expires' after N frames)
asciilifeform: unless you pony up serious dough.
decimation: lol I didn't realize they had 'trialware' like that
decimation: that's hilarious
asciilifeform: at the risk of repeating the last 100+ xilinx threads - the closed architecture of -all- fpga vendors is specifically to enable this 'business model'
asciilifeform: i.e. to prevent you from curing the ethernet card.
asciilifeform: or sata card, or whatever.
asciilifeform: also to prevent taking the design to another fpga.
decimation: plus it's cash in their pocket
asciilifeform: !s hard copy asic
assbot: 0 results for 'hard copy asic' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hard+copy+asic
asciilifeform: !s hard copy fpga
assbot: 0 results for 'hard copy fpga' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hard+copy+fpga
asciilifeform: !s hard copy
assbot: 6 results for 'hard copy' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=hard+copy
decimation: yeah you mentioned how vlsi asics are all hard copies of fpgas
asciilifeform: not all.
asciilifeform: just the bitcoin miners.
asciilifeform: and other 'on the cheap' jobs.
asciilifeform: but, it is conceivable that - at this point - all new designs.
assbot: An Interview with Shahriar from The Signal Path - Quisquous Quivering Quadripole | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1A78JTP )
decimation: the annoying australian and some guy from cleveland interview a guy who works for bell labs designing >100 ghz analog ics
asciilifeform: afaik the only customer is usg.
decimation: as I recall, the guy claimed that most of the high-end fabs use cadence tools
asciilifeform: primarily for electronic arse search machines.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah and there are some esoteric telco applications too
asciilifeform: aha and they won't even take your job if you aren't using cadence's cell libs.
asciilifeform: mircea is mistaken when he writes that china controls ic manufacture.
decimation: yeah the bell labs guy has issues hiring because very few schools are willing to pay the bezzlars required to actually experiment with high-end process
asciilifeform: what does it mean if asia has all of the factories, but is utterly dependant on winblows and a stack of monopoly turdware as tall as empire state building ?
asciilifeform: for which, i will point out, no practical substitutes are known or, afaik, even contemplated anywhere.
decimation: asciilifeform: what it means is that they can enrich themselves privately by stamping out copies and selling shit on ebay
decimation: but doesn't give them a single step toward 'making their own'
decimation: yeah the bell labs guy said that they charge him $500k per year per seat
decimation: which sounds cheap
asciilifeform: the point is not the cost.
asciilifeform: to china, or to me, and you, it's $0
asciilifeform: to any 12 y.o. boy who knows what w4r3z is
asciilifeform: point is the control.
asciilifeform: and the winblows.
decimation: yeah but how are you going to walk into a foundry with your warez design?
asciilifeform: depends on who's foundry
asciilifeform: but that also isn't the point
decimation: if you pay $mils per year, people know who the hell you are
asciilifeform: point is that 'w4r3z dangle' is a time-honoured usg tactic.
asciilifeform: see the siberian pipeline incident.
asciilifeform: chinese semiconductor industry, afaik, runs almost 100% on warez.
decimation: so if a chinaman owns a foundry, and can get design warez, why not build & design own chips?
asciilifeform: because - in all but one out of thousand cases - why???
decimation: I guess he's getting paid to hustle for his usg masters
asciilifeform: he gets paid to sell, e.g., electric dildoes with programmable waveforms.
asciilifeform: they vibrate merrily, customers happy, the dough rolls in
asciilifeform: what should he want on top of this ?
decimation: from his point of view, he has a design team of usg zeks to work for him?
asciilifeform: for the work to actually be his own, non-plagiarized? in the confucian world, this is actually an anti-value
decimation: if the world were reversed and china was designing stuff for us foundries to stamp out, it would certainly be the case that us folks would try to do it themselves
asciilifeform: i'll point out that the complexity of the designs, which makes straight plagiarism so irresistible to the asians, doesn't happen in a vacuum.
asciilifeform: ever wonder whence we got the crock of shit that is usb ?
decimation: complexity is intentional, to lock everybody in
asciilifeform: virtually every little gibblet of the entire stack
asciilifeform: written guess where, by guess whom
decimation: by zeks, who work for companies whose entire business model consists of locking people into their bullshit by whatever means
asciilifeform: here's related story
asciilifeform: every day i wonder why the 'arm' architecture so thoroughly beat 'mips' (closest competitor in the 'risc' world) in the markets
asciilifeform: despite being a steaming crock of shit compared to mips
asciilifeform: (arm makes a mockery of the whole risc concept, hundreds of weird instructions with a multitude of modifier bits, hilariously varies addressing mechanisms, etc)
asciilifeform: finally i arrived at an answer
decimation: plus they regularly redo the entire instruction set
asciilifeform: arm is sufficiently complex that folks were stuck licensing it verbatim, rather than reimplementing
decimation: whereas skilled undergrad could make a mips cpu?
asciilifeform: (an undergrad can throw a mips-compatible fpga core together in a day)
asciilifeform: hence arm (uk corp.) rolls in dough, without actually manufacturing anything at all
decimation: yes, there is much wisdom here. the electronics market consists nearly entirely of lock-in, either by complexity, inertia, or usg enforcement (patents, etc)
decimation: yet there's just enough 'freedom' to make the little people think that they actually control something
asciilifeform: the old saw about 'freedom of the press' belonging to the fellow with the press;
decimation: asciilifeform: this (arm's) was almost exactly the same business model as qualcomm's
asciilifeform: the freedom of the semiconductor belongs - not! to the fellow with the factory - but the one who controlls the entire process stack
asciilifeform: presently that's usg.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 162 @ 0.12459819 = 20.1849 BTC [+] {8}
decimation: except they achieved lock-in by getting usg to enforce their comms standard & getting the cell phone ownership to agree
asciilifeform: the actual nervous system of usg is not the muppets with the microphones
asciilifeform: it's the qualcomms.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26370 @ 0.00057123 = 15.0633 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: and they are largely powered by academic types who are 'do-ocracy' types
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20639 @ 0.00059159 = 12.2098 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: qualcomms, intels, arms, exxons, ibms, beltway bandits
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6361 @ 0.00062037 = 3.9462 BTC [+]
decimation: they make & implement usg policy, and allow stooges to stand in front of the microphones to take the heat
asciilifeform: the physical components of a mega-chumpatron have to be made somewhere.
decimation: stooges for that too
decimation: 'give us stuff in exchange for these really valuable promises to pay bezzlars!'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.0006212 = 7.8582 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14770 @ 0.00055184 = 8.1507 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00054191 = 11.5969 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20500 @ 0.00054191 = 11.1092 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00053527 / 0.00059403 / 0.00065647 (1072172 shares, 636.91 BTC), 7D: 0.00053527 / 0.00061436 / 0.00072352 (5319005 shares, 3,267.82 BTC), 30D: 0.00030027 / 0.00048802 / 0.00072352 (39711657 shares, 19,380.13 BTC)
thestringpuller: wow that escalated quickly
mats: is good stuff
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28735 @ 0.00054319 = 15.6086 BTC [+]
Adlai: so what's the roadmap for liberating honest silicon's ability to self-reproduce from the monkeys that are trying to choke it down?
asciilifeform: who does Adlai think knows the answer to this ?
Adlai: nobody, although people who care should at least have some crazy dreams
asciilifeform: ah that's easy.
Adlai: given sufficient raw materials and chuck moore replicants, it should be possible to build a stack clean in both hard- and software.
mats: i hate you
← 2014-12-23 | 2014-12-25 → ↑
Random(trilema) | Download hourly DB snapshot | Get Source Code