Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-11-30 | 2014-12-02 → ↓
BingoBoingo: !up xinxiwang
BingoBoingo: Hello xinxiwang
xinxiwang: thanks.
xinxiwang: Hello
xinxiwang: long time no see
BingoBoingo: How have things been recently?
xinxiwang: great. How are you?
BingoBoingo: Oh, busy
asciilifeform: decimation: i don't get it. with what 'modern' thing would you have them replace the 'enfields', and why ?
pete_dushenski: right. canada knows that new=bad
pete_dushenski: thus cf18 fighter jets are still going strong
pete_dushenski: canada also relies largely on southern neighbour's big stick
pete_dushenski: "A US man has been handed a US$500,000 fine for selling the StealthGenie malware in the first prosecution of a mobile spyware slinger. Police collared Hammad Akbar, 31, in September after he allegedly sold the malware to an undercover agent in 2012."
asciilifeform: serious technical question. how exactly might one improve on a 1890s rifle in the given application (almost never fired; when fired - typically, at large land animals (hence, want full sized cartridge); extreme cold; etc
pete_dushenski: i wonder what they're going to slap the dogecoin android miner guy with. 1 trillion doge!
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform with electronix?
asciilifeform: with death ray.
pete_dushenski: mounted on mooseback
asciilifeform: 'howdah.'
pete_dushenski: 'hihowareyah'
asciilifeform: ;;google howdah pistol
gribble: Howdah pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howdah_pistol>; Pedersoli Howdah Hunter 20-Ga. Pistol : Cabela's: <http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Howdah-Hunter-Ga-Pistol/740261.uts>; American Guns: Howdah Pistol Reveal : Video : Discovery Channel: <http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/american-guns/videos/howdah-pistol-reveal.htm>
pete_dushenski: heh or that
pete_dushenski: i was thinking more along the lines of...
pete_dushenski: ;;google what makes the red man red
gribble: Disney's Peter Pan - What Makes The Red Man Red ? - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_at9dOElQk>; Peter Pan - What Makes The Red Man Red (English) - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7yE8TKUB_M>; What Made the Red Man Red? - DisneyWiki: <http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/What_Made_the_Red_Man_Red%3F>
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4210 @ 0.00034947 = 1.4713 BTC [+]
decimation: asciilifeform: well, what about a rifle system that was designed from the ground up to work in very cold conditions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_Arctic_Warfare
assbot: Accuracy International Arctic Warfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1rJSSJh )
decimation: my point was less about the enfields and more about the 'barely-exists' nature of canada's military, when compared to potential rivals in the arctic
pete_dushenski: the area to be protected is simply too large given the population of the country
pete_dushenski: so, why bother?
decimation: well, because maybe they can charge gst on chinese tankers or whatever
pete_dushenski: or canada can choose not to spend a dime protecting it
pete_dushenski: and charge china gst for as long as china wants to play nice.
decimation: yeah, it will be interesting to see how that all ends up
decimation: at any rate, I'm off to bed, night all
pete_dushenski: canada is just choosing the path of least resistance and will continue to do so
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31100 @ 0.00034827 = 10.8312 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Evry btc company needs a /VitalikButerin or /gavinandresen . /Cancoin has /lastcanal , lead architect & heady genius single handedly winning
pete_dushenski: every btc company needs more scam!
pete_dushenski: truer words...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00035053 = 7.5714 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25311 @ 0.00034181 = 8.6516 BTC [-]
assbot: Bosnian community in St. Louis outraged over fatal hammer attack in Bevo Mill neighborhood : News ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQzS0t )
BingoBoingo: ^ “I don’t know why this is happening to Bosnians. We could go around and shoot people, too, but we just want peace.”
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77700 @ 0.0003476 = 27.0085 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: BitBet - Silver to fall under $15/oz before December 27th :: 8.63 B (52%) on Yes, 8.08 B (48%) on No | closed 3 hours 31 minutes ago ... ( http://bit.ly/12cCAxh )
mircea_popescu: one of the more wow upsets on bitbet.
BingoBoingo: Everything is crashing
assbot: Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2014 Statement | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/12cD3PO )
cazalla: prolly shitcan the coinroll advert
mircea_popescu: yeah, as a general policy it's ok to take per-conversion deals with things that for whatever good reason sell themselves.
mircea_popescu: but with stuff in oversaturated novelty markets... let em pay cpm.
mircea_popescu: cazalla did it actually run the whole month ?
BingoBoingo: It came into being mid month
BingoBoingo: Oh, dunno that it even had two weeks
cazalla: mircea_popescu, no, about 1/2 the month if that
cazalla: was the 20th so not even 2 weeks but still
mircea_popescu: so wait, out of the 10k uniques quantcast reports for a whole month that leaves like 4k people, of which ~80 clicked ?
mircea_popescu: are you fucking shitting me, you're getting 2% ctrs ?!
mircea_popescu: this is what, 100x gawker ? jesus this thing is sweet.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/002MQAA.txt )
mircea_popescu: CTR hasn't been over 1% since like 1998]
cazalla: pssh, some of my adsense sites did way better than that but every fkn link was adsense
mircea_popescu: im not talking here for whatever made-for-x astroturf
mircea_popescu: just, you know, a newspaper.
cazalla: i know but point is, CTR could be 100% but who cares if it didn't convert to a paying customer, total revenue this month = 0
mircea_popescu: not the publisher's job to make the sale.
cazalla: yes, so i vote we remove the advert and offer spots per cpm
mircea_popescu: you want to be on qntra, you pay to be on qntra. let all the coin* sites have the "we'll do your job for you" deals.
mircea_popescu: i don't think we even bother selling it until it shows great numbers and they come bangin' on the door.
mircea_popescu: course that raises the problem of wtf are great numbers.
cazalla: just charge in proportion to current numbers, increase as great numbers arrive
cazalla: maybe i'll whack up a sponsorship page outlining the demographics per quantcast
mircea_popescu: problem is like this : advertising is association. think of it like a woman (the publisher) getting married (the advertiser).
mircea_popescu: now, the time flows inversely, because these things improve with age
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, take a case like eva peron : prostitute at 15, singer/dancer at 17,
mircea_popescu: would you want to marry her at 20 ?
mircea_popescu: unless you're peron, she's gonna be a waitress.
cazalla: 6 months in BA and you're singing don't cry for me Argentina
mircea_popescu: these people are beyond fucking clueless btw, im half tempted to write an article.
assbot: coindesk.com Site Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/12cJp1A )
mircea_popescu: gave up ?
assbot: cryptocoinsnews.com Site Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/12cJEtA )
cazalla: i was going to attribute traffic drop to 2014 being somewhat of a write off but ccn is up and up so perhaps some penguin/panda styled penalty on coindesk, who knows
BingoBoingo: Coindesk still publishes text..
mircea_popescu: isn't ccn mostly run as an mfa ?
cazalla: yeah, various authors so there is your cheap content to publish constantly
cazalla: so what is the solution/plan, the site is going into its third month, it would be nice to generate some revenue even if it is only a small amount
mircea_popescu: what i mean specifically : the site is generating excellent revenue as it is. none of which is monetary.
mircea_popescu: the conversion is very expensive, and not really necessary, so why bother.
cazalla: because there comes a point where i can make more working mcdonalds and using mcbucks to buy btc instead of qntra to btc for my efforts
cazalla: it's not an immediate need, looking more towards long term, do i look back after a year and think yes, on a per hour basis, this earned more btc than turning my mcbucks to bitcoin
mircea_popescu: cazalla just sell some shares neh ?
cazalla: that's like sacrificing long term for right now though
mircea_popescu: what i mean is : qntra is a bitcoin property. if bitcoin does well and qntra does well, it's not possible in a year for it to not be worth btc.
mircea_popescu: if you seek insurance against bitcoin doing well but qntra doing poorly, you can rebalance your shares-btc holdings proportions
assbot: Advertisement ... ( http://bit.ly/1y2qyOX )
mircea_popescu: ew what the shit variety.
mircea_popescu: dude the world's gone to shit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93466 @ 0.00034163 = 31.9308 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: “The theft of Sony Pictures Entertainment content is a criminal matter, and we are working closely with law enforcement to address it,” a Sony spokeswoman said in a statement to Variety.
mircea_popescu: apparently mpaa is doing so well in its war with the internet, it reminds one of the glory of the us military in the middle and far east.
assbot: Kim Dotcom avoids jail after bail hearing - National - NZ Herald News ... ( http://bit.ly/1y2rdA1 )
mircea_popescu: jaja he looks like such a total derp.
BingoBoingo: Totally, and this is who the MPAA is losing to.
mircea_popescu: not even, they got raped by some script kiddy group lol.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00034145 = 12.9751 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: Sure in this latest loss, but they can't even win against the derps they catch.
mircea_popescu: "He said the US had refused to supply the content of the electronic communications on which many of the allegations were made."
mircea_popescu: dude i don't get this shit.
mircea_popescu: can i now impeach obama on the basis of some sex tapes in which he's fucking his daughters ?
mircea_popescu: im not releasing the tapes btw. so when's the impeachment ?
BingoBoingo: Don't see it happening later than august.
BingoBoingo: Once the new congress comes in in January they'll probably find something to latch on to.
mircea_popescu: cazalla "*This includes a deduction of 175 words"
mircea_popescu: does that mean i have to substract 175 or not ?
mircea_popescu: the proper way to say it about a negative is "this excludes" or "this accounts for". so which of the two ?
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 6774+5927+1408+315+81
gribble: 14505
mircea_popescu: not 14541
mircea_popescu: a nm, dyslexia strikes again lol. 351
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00034219 = 12.1477 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66309 @ 0.000341 = 22.6114 BTC [-]
cazalla: mircea_popescu, it means i have already deducted what needed removing
assbot: Qntra (S.QNTR) November 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z7m2B0 )
cazalla: mircea_popescu: the proper way to say it about a negative is "this excludes" or "this accounts for". so which of the two ? <<< will keep in mind for december
mircea_popescu: it's so disonant for me, fucking summer over here. xmas is coming ? hum.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9650 @ 0.00034257 = 3.3058 BTC [+]
cazalla: white xmas in romania?
mircea_popescu: http://live.coinbr.com/?mpsic=S.MPOE << monthly chart looks like a fucking coronary
assbot: CoinBr Live S.MPOE ... ( http://bit.ly/1z7nJ1a )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90500 @ 0.00034087 = 30.8487 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30155 @ 0.00034016 = 10.2575 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: still not a peep out of bitpay despite their promise that this years bitcoin black friday would be bigger than previous year
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65316 @ 0.00033898 = 22.1408 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46450 @ 0.00034602 = 16.0726 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: supposed to be winter here, a balmy 24 C
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70939 @ 0.00033872 = 24.0285 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00033857 = 9.1075 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: !t m s.qntr
assbot: [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (297 shares, 0.04 BTC), 7D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (297 shares, 0.04 BTC), 30D: 0.00013514 / 0.00013792 / 0.00015 (4411 shares, 0.61 BTC)
mircea_popescu: lol the cuteness.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 109786 * 0.00013792
gribble: 15.14168512
mircea_popescu: 15 btc mkt cap!
mircea_popescu: and one of those rare situations where there's more buyside than the whole equity, by a wide margin. even if you discount the penny offers.
assbot: BBC News - Vinyl record sales hit 18-year high ... ( http://bit.ly/1waSq84 )
mircea_popescu: anyone still has a tardstalk account ?
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/12/michael-mizrachi-aka-the-grinder-to-launch-bitcoin-based-poker-site/ i can just see one of these donking off player funds in some degen moment
assbot: Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1waSNPZ )
cazalla: can't remember my tardstalk account pwd
cazalla: looks like matonis is a fan of qntra http://i.imgur.com/vnavBv4.png
mircea_popescu: how much stock you gonna put in twitter lists.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27480 @ 0.00034541 = 9.4919 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7389 @ 0.00034622 = 2.5582 BTC [+]
cazalla: not much considering i'm still waiting to be unbanned for making violent threats which i did not even make
cazalla: least they can do is unban, allow me to make threats, reapply ban
mircea_popescu: care less, live longer.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45500 @ 0.00034543 = 15.7171 BTC [-]
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-12-2014#939313 < of all people, you should only tolerate tax rates up to 10%
assbot: Logged on 01-12-2014 04:41:18; decimation: I'm okay with a high VAT/GST/sales tax if it comes with no income tax
assbot: BitBet (S.BBET) November 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHoTTd )
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla ^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38154 @ 0.00034079 = 13.0025 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: tl;dr : best month since may 2013
mircea_popescu: course may-april 2013 15 btc was like 50 bux.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18011 @ 0.00034622 = 6.2358 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: so i was thinking, aren't these dating sites and dating generally completely inequitable ?
mircea_popescu: why should companies not be allowed to only hire white people, but dudes dating be allowed to only date women ? or straight people ? or w/e ?
mircea_popescu: i hope the rainbow party doesn't stop with the gay marriage victory and goes to the core of the problem.
adlai: "this is not even my final form!" - socialism
mircea_popescu: equal fucking opportunity dating!
mircea_popescu: one shouldn't be rejected merely because he is allegedly of the wrong gender.
mircea_popescu: adlai lol quite.
adlai: it's funny/perfectlylogical how the biggest dating site is also the biggest gun running site
punkman: which one is that?
adlai: well, maybe not gun *running*, but it's definitely a brisker trade than SR
adlai: facebook
mircea_popescu: adlai yep. yet somehow that never gets mentioned.
mircea_popescu: "feds close down 5 dedicated bitcoin-based drug trading sites, accounting together for <1% of online drug trade. the principal drug trading hub online, facebook, remains unaffected"
mircea_popescu: cazalla ^ perspective for teh next time lol. it didn't occur to me back then
punkman: topix is pretty big with drug sellers
mircea_popescu: o is it /
punkman: or rather was
assbot: Silk Road may be gone, but Topix is still a haven for drug dealers | The Verge ... ( http://bit.ly/15MmhIR )
mircea_popescu: so they even know about, just, won't mention the bezzle corps.
nubbins`: sms is full of drug dealers
nubbins`: but it's decentralized
mircea_popescu: doies tribune still own topix btw ?
assbot: Oxy pain meds in NYC - Topix ... ( http://bit.ly/15Mmr33 )
assbot: Oxycodone In Montreal - Topix ... ( http://bit.ly/15MmuvA )
mircea_popescu: stil lthis entire "pills are drugs nao" online kiddie kick ?
adlai: iirc pain pills are the most-addicted-to drug in bezzland, followed by mood pills
mircea_popescu: Topix's main user base consists of posters from small cities and towns in the United States, particularly those with several thousand or hundred residents. Few people from major American cities use Topix. Topix has a large following in Appalachia, rural areas in the Southern United States, and the Ozarks. Discussions that traditionally took place in person in rural areas began to be posted on Topix. Chris Tolles, the c
mircea_popescu: hief executive of Topix LLC, said that Topix is very popular in "the feud states".
mircea_popescu: ahaha check that shit out. i had no idea.
mircea_popescu: adlai i have nfi how you can be "addicted" to oxycodone.
adlai: same way you can be "addicted" to heroin?
punkman: those idiots actually try to smoke or IV pills
adlai: you don't have to own a needle or a crack pipe to be an addict
punkman: or all the retarded kids that crush up ritalin and snort it
mircea_popescu: the oxycodone aka heorin argument sounds to me like a hipster's bike aka armored persone carrier argument
mircea_popescu: sure, they both got wheels. o.O
mircea_popescu: punkman back when i was that age, idiots snorted powdered sugar, to pretend like they're whatever.
mircea_popescu: movie stars i guess.
mircea_popescu: visotsky, whatever.
cazalla: i'll stick to nutmeg and banana skins
mircea_popescu: cazalla you know most of not-totally-poor africa makes brisk trade in fake papyrus made out of banana peels ?
mircea_popescu: they paint that shit and sell it to idiot whitey by the barge.
cazalla: i would not know this, i thought jenkem was only export
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> adlai i have nfi how you can be "addicted" to oxycodone. <<< uhhhh.... o.O
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59375 @ 0.00033786 = 20.0604 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: "once the initial buzz or hit has worn down, most addicts report that their is little to no difference between H or Oxycodone"
mircea_popescu: what do these holy users of all-knowing importance report of the difference between windows and ubuntu ?
mircea_popescu: i totally care what a bunch of fucktards report, it's like, tantamout to science this.
adlai: well being addicted to the rush is a whole separate beast
mircea_popescu: "most people report sun and moon visibly the same size to naked eye"
adlai: "most people blinded by mysterious occurence at noon. more news at 1pm"
mircea_popescu: wait, no, i got better. "most eaters report no substandial difference between i-cant-believe-its-not-butter and butter"
nubbins`: let me try another tack
mircea_popescu: i was having fun with this one ;/
mircea_popescu: i was saving the "their" even!
nubbins`: you have no fucking idea how people can get addicted to snorting opiates, compressing a controlled 24-hour release into about half an hour?
nubbins`: lel @ their ;/
nubbins`: their is three errors in this sentance
mircea_popescu: oxycodone is an "opiate" in the sense your average 300 lb social sciences postgrad is a "woman"
mircea_popescu: ie, nominally.
adlai: what are we even arguing about though?
mircea_popescu: NOT functionally.
adlai: there are still poppy tea addicts today, too
adlai: so what?
nubbins`: would you call morphine an opiate?
nubbins`: suppose i told you that oxycodone is 1.5x the strength?
mircea_popescu: i definitely can see how one can be addicted to morphine.
mircea_popescu: on what, molar basis ?
adlai: probably binding affinity?
nubbins`: i've erased enough chem from my brain to not be able to definitively say "yes" to that, but i mean 10mg of morphine = 6.67mg of oxy
assbot: Opioid converter, opioid conversions, pain management. ... ( http://bit.ly/15MndwI )
nubbins`: "equianalgesic"
mircea_popescu: nubbins` they're rather close anyway, so mass works nearly good enough
nubbins`: well there ya go.
nubbins`: anyway, with orally-taken morphine as a "1"
nubbins`: oxys are a 1.5, IV/IM morphine is a 3
adlai: these are child opiates though, let's compare them to fentanyl
mircea_popescu: anyway, that's more of a cargo-cultapproach to this science ("i know it's strong because this is how the doctors use it")
nubbins`: fentanyl is in the 50-100 range
mircea_popescu: as best i can see, oxycodone is more like codeine than heroin.
nubbins`: codeine's listed as 1/10
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: i can only imagine there are endless clinical trials behind these numbers
nubbins`: but anyway.
nubbins`: people get addicted to oxy like nothing else
mircea_popescu: yes, but geared towards a different set of objectives.
nubbins`: it's available everywhere -- WAY more readily so than street opiates
mircea_popescu: let me put it this way : make a buffet with 10 lb bowls of pure powder.
mircea_popescu: one of each substance you test
mircea_popescu: see what % usage you meet.
mircea_popescu: how many people will be snorting your oxycodone when heroin directly available right next to it ?
adlai: can we fill the third bowl with salvinorin B?
nubbins`: adlai salv A only
adlai: *ethoxymethyl ether
nubbins`: mircea_popescu sure, but this is not an argument against oxy's addictive qualities
mircea_popescu: right...
mircea_popescu: because logic ?
nubbins`: people will choose filet mignon over a big mac, doesn't mean they're not picking up mcd's every day on the ride home
mircea_popescu: "i'm in love with X, manifested by the fact that whenever there's no naked swimsuit models splayed on my bedspread, i fuck X"
mircea_popescu: nubbins` so then are they fucking addicted to the big mac lawl.
nubbins`: love != addiction
adlai: there are also reasons outside pharmacology
nubbins`: ^ (let's see what tangent this spawns)
adlai wouldn't be surprised if many americans addicted to oxy, never took a "real drug" before
nubbins`: most of the addicts here are on pharms
adlai: it's the gateway pill!
adlai: that, or xanax
mircea_popescu: "oxycodone : how the idiot generation is getting all the drawbacks of opioid dosing with none of the benefits"
mircea_popescu: so much of contemporary us is all about being incredibly stupid...
nubbins`: there are benefits?
adlai: no, that's kratom
nubbins`: i mean, sure, if you're a musician
nubbins`: take up heroin, you'll make your best work
nubbins`: but otherwise?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` and if you're not a musician NOBODY WILL HEAR ABOUT IT
mircea_popescu: still your best work, just, shitty & obscure. like you.
adlai: "I think the dark side of the moon is worth 100 dead kids" - maher
nubbins` claps
nubbins`: adlai incidentally i was in a buyer's club for salvia for a period of time
punkman: adlai: kratom's pretty interesting
nubbins`: mad bulk discounts
mircea_popescu: dude srsly, chewing treebark ?
mircea_popescu: shall there be no end of this "i smoke oregano the older kids sold to me as a mockery BECAUSE I ENJOY IT!"
nubbins`: srsly, lighting plants on fire and breathing the smoke? ;/
mircea_popescu: fucking denial of doom...
adlai has never tried verified salvia, the one time somebody brought over "salvia" it was more similar to expired mint leaves, and about as potent
mircea_popescu: let's all be ironic and smoke cow dung.
nubbins`: "Kratom behaves as a μ-opioid receptor"
nubbins`: well til
mircea_popescu: adlai i had a bush in my garden
adlai: that's nothing, i had two in my white house
mircea_popescu: and no, i never fucking smoked it.
nubbins`: also incidentally, salvinorin is a kappa-opiod agonist
nubbins`: but not an opiate
adlai: salvia is like an anti-opiate
nubbins`: it's like an anti-drug
punkman: nubbins`: cup of kratom tea, great substitute for coffee
adlai: you take one hit bro and you're not addicted anymore, man, you can do anything you want
nubbins`: punkman: hit of 10x salvia extract, great substitute for a ten-strip of owsley acid
adlai: how is a cup of a mild opiate a great substitute for a mild stim
adlai: too much logic in here
adlai dogwalks
mircea_popescu: logic is a drug!
punkman: adlai, it's also a stimulant in small doses
mircea_popescu: love is the logic antidrug
nubbins`: iirc salvinorin is actually the most potent naturally-occuring drug
mircea_popescu: and addiction is merely bioactive irony
adlai: "TV is the first electric drug... somebody else's trip, plus advertisements" - mckenna
nubbins`: my cells are screaming in pain ironically
adlai: addiction is brilliant, for the plants
mircea_popescu: nubbins` they pretend like it's painful... but it's not.
adlai: your brain cells LOVE addiction
adlai: maybe a few don't, but nobody listens to them anymore
mircea_popescu: my brain is almost entirely made of this later sort.
mircea_popescu: no black brain cells over here.
nubbins`: so you think
mircea_popescu: i kinda know, actually.
adlai: I guess nobody listens to you anymore! :P
mircea_popescu: totally.
mats_cd03: salvia is filthy
nubbins`: i'd paint it more as intensely bizarre
nubbins`: it's wholly unlike anything else
mats_cd03: felt like needles on my skin and dying
mats_cd03: nothx
nubbins`: heh.
nubbins`: i experienced complete synesthesia once on it
nubbins`: classical hallucinogens like lsd, psilo, etc will fuck with / change / alter your perceptions
nubbins`: "the carpet is moving" "the walls are bleeding" etc
nubbins`: salvia just drops you into another place entirely. you're not sitting on your bed looking at your bedside table, you're in the produce section of the grocery store watching people smell your colors
nubbins`: or you're a sheet of wallpaper in a strange room
nubbins`: or w/e
mircea_popescu: eh get out.
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: i didn't grok "weird" until i tried salvia
mircea_popescu: takes a very impressionable sort. it's more you than it's it
nubbins`: i thought i did, but nope.
punkman: was a long time, but I can attest to that
nubbins`: mircea_popescu i vehemently disagree
mircea_popescu: and for that money, you could probably have the same results if you just sat on your back and watched the clouds go by long enough
nubbins`: bahaha
mats_cd03: ive never felt that fucked up on anything other than salvia
mats_cd03: and it will only be that one time in high school
nubbins`: mircea_popescu while i can't quantify my "impressionability", you're so far off-base here that i don't know where to begin
cazalla: i took 2 aspirin instead of 1 once upon a time
nubbins`: salvia puts you on fucking mars.
cazalla: i watched some guys have awful trips on salvia on youtube, you couldn't pay me to smoke that
mircea_popescu: nubbins` didn't put him on mars, what of that ?
punkman: can be hard to get the right dose
nubbins`: mircea_popescu the vaporization point of salvinorin is far higher than the temperature of the cherried, smouldering plant. you can quite easily "smoke it wrong".
nubbins`: correct method is to blast it with a butane torch while inhaling
mircea_popescu: some people get really elated watching theatre. heck, most 9yos spend the rest of the day doing weirdo dance move things after their first action movie experience.
nubbins`: otherwise, little to no effects, mostly uncomfortable physical feelings
mircea_popescu: "they're superman nao!"
nubbins` shakes head
mircea_popescu: doesn't this thing burn at all ?
nubbins`: if i'm parsing this correctly, you're equating a salvia high to a form of elevated excitement
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00033985 = 8.8361 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: seems to me if high temperature is required the correct approach is not a butane torch but a thermostat hotplate.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63950 @ 0.00034054 = 21.7775 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: nubbins` im merely bringing the argument that an inclination to be impressed with what one sees and a tendency to get excited about what's directly seen is more a thing of youth than a thing of humanity.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: certainly, and there's no argument on that point.
mircea_popescu: in the same vein with "i won a million bucks in the reader's digest mailing, look!"
nubbins`: however, i'd taken relatively large doses of several different hallucinogens by the time i discovered salvia
mircea_popescu: well if there's no argument on that point, then there's no argument on the "watch the clouds" point either
mircea_popescu: they being the same.
nubbins`: and i knew precisely what hallucination vs impression/excitability was
mircea_popescu: exactly, huh ?
nubbins`: and i'm telling you that about 20 seconds after you inhale a lungful of salvia smoke, everything you see and hear and feel around you is just GONE and replaced with something else.
mircea_popescu: let's translate this logic.
nubbins`: like, completely gone.
mircea_popescu: "i know exactly how garza scams, having watched a number of his scams in trhe past, and i can assure you this one's legit"
nubbins`: not "o i feel funny"
mircea_popescu: something like that ?
nubbins`: but "o, i am physically in a different place"
nubbins`: or "o, it feels like my jaw has detached from my head and is wrapping tightly around my neck, coil after unending coil"
nubbins`: or "o, how long was i out? who broke all this glass?"
mircea_popescu: this happens to me naturally anyway.
nubbins`: well i guess you don't need to smoke salvia
mircea_popescu: !s "how long was i asleep"
assbot: 0 results for '"how long was i asleep"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%22how+long+was+i+asleep%22
mircea_popescu: eh gtfo.
nubbins`: can't, i'm a lord or smth
mircea_popescu: not you lol, assbot
mircea_popescu: i know i've said it dozens of times! THOUSANDS!
danielpbarron has smoked salvia
nubbins`: hyperbole aside, i actually cannot recommend that anyone try smoking salvia
nubbins`: i don't want the responsibility
mircea_popescu: "you forgot your panties in my bed" "but i don't wear panties ?" "oh shit... um..."
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron so how was it ?
danielpbarron: the most strange experience of my life
nubbins`: <+nubbins`> i didn't grok "weird" until i tried salvia
danielpbarron: and i've done dmt lsd and shrooms
mircea_popescu: fine, what do i know.
danielpbarron: felt like i became the hardwood floor i was lying on
nubbins`: less than you think you do 8)
punkman: someone sent mp some salvia :P
nubbins`: <+nubbins`> or you're a sheet of wallpaper in a strange room
punkman: *send
nubbins`: he's a grown-up, he can buy his own ;p
nubbins`: i guess it's probably still legal in .ar
nubbins`: the concentrates are better / easier
nubbins`: plain leaf requires the inhalation of plumes of smoke
nubbins`: v hard on the lungs
punkman: plain leaf is impossible
danielpbarron: i used 10x or something
nubbins`: 5x and 10x, i tried
nubbins`: you need an impossibly small amount
nubbins`: like, people would lel.
nubbins`: "i need more than that"
nubbins`: 5 minutes later, wiping tears off their face
punkman: I got a bunch of now respectable people, drooling like idiots on video
nubbins`: telling them it's okay
nubbins`: punkman the DROOL
nubbins`: smth else, hey?
nubbins`: *sluuurp* i've never had a buzz *sluuuurp* like this bef......
punkman: uncontrollable salivation
danielpbarron: salvia does kinda feel like an anti-opiate; it feels like the opposite of comfortable
punkman: so it wasn't just me
nubbins`: (vacant gaze for 20mins)
mircea_popescu: so this is the drug of dog ?
nubbins`: if it grew in another part of the world they woulda called it soma
nubbins`: punkman massiva salivation and internal organs being pulled to one side
nubbins`: *massive
nubbins`: is generally how the come-up was for me
nubbins`: then generally the room/space/forest/whatever would fill with a heavy static buzz, upward from the ground
nubbins`: then you lose yourself
nubbins`: man. this was like ten years ago.
punkman: first time wtih 5x, I remember having a 20min conversation with my keyboard
nubbins`: it's burned into my fucking brain.
punkman: yeah 10+ years ago
nubbins`: my first time with 5x i had a mental conversation in a language i didn't speak with an old woman
nubbins`: who happened to be standing in my bedroom. which was actually a farm.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42100 @ 0.00033834 = 14.2441 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: "Based on my own experiments using an adjustable thermocouple-controlled heat gun, I found that the ideal airstream temperature for vaporizing salvinorin A from dried leaves is approximately 277° C"
nubbins`: well there ya go
nubbins`: my oven doesn't get that hot
mircea_popescu: how can your oven not get that hot ?!
nubbins` shrugs
punkman: nubbins`: did you ever try a tincture? I always wondered how that worked
nubbins`: 500F is the max
nubbins`: that's what, 260C?
nubbins`: punkman never tried, nope
nubbins`: i suppose if i set it to broil it'd get however hot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48172 @ 0.00033715 = 16.2412 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: well maybe I'll give it a shot after a decade
nubbins`: bring a sitter
punkman: *another decade, not keen on smoking salvia any time soon
nubbins`: it does not lend itself to addiction
punkman: indeed
nubbins`: i guess i should be binding books
nubbins`: we actually sold out on saturday and now there's like 25 on backorder
punkman: doing more bird stuff?
nubbins`: same stuff
assbot: Birds Of Newfoundland — PATRICK THOMAS CANNING ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8bL7n )
punkman sneaks off to order some mitragyna speciosa
nubbins`: ethnobotanicals.com 8)
assbot: Logged on 01-12-2014 13:09:41; mircea_popescu: so this is the drug of dog ?
punkman: nubbins`: pretty expensive
nubbins`: no doubt
nubbins`: ordered from them ages ago
nubbins`: was surprised to see them still running
nubbins`: i think i bought some HBWR seeds from there
assbot: Erowid Calea zacatechichi Vault ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8cJ3I )
nubbins`: is that the dream one?
nubbins`: also erowid accepts btc
adlai: yes and yes
punkman: these guys take BTC, can recommend: http://www.bikhuk.com/p/buy-kratom.html
assbot: Bikhuk Kratom Powder - Ethnobotanicals buy direct from the source!: Buy Kratom ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8d5HA )
adlai: well erowid doesn't accept btc in the same way as those guys :)
nubbins`: nope
nubbins`: oh hey, the EU banned 25I-NBOMe in september
nubbins`: #bitcoin-alkaloids ;p
adlai: elaborating on the earlier theme of addiction being brilliant for plants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis
assbot: Ophiocordyceps unilateralis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGvwDg )
adlai: this is a bit of an extreme example, and some people would claim that humans get something out of the relationship, ie, psychoactive plants are symbiotic, not parasites
nubbins`: fwiw i think psychoactives are more denfense mechanisms than anything
nubbins`: show me an animal (besides your dog) that eats weed plants
punkman: adlai, Michael Pollan et al?
adlai: my dog eats weed!?
nubbins`: adlai, only when you're not looking.
nubbins`: not too surprising from a creature that will greedily eat feces without compunction
adlai: he puked a turd a few days ago
nubbins`: right?>
nubbins`: that's pigeon-level stupidity
adlai: to his credit, of all the dogs I've met, he's got the best grasp of newtonian mechanics
adlai: there is no fooling him
nubbins`: bit of a wash with non-newtonian tho hey?
adlai: yeah he was so confused after interstellar
adlai: "urf?"
nubbins`: well don't ever buy him any silly putty
mircea_popescu: nubbins` horse enjoys a good beer...
punkman: I've seen dog enjoying beer as well
adlai: punkman: haven't seen this before. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Botany_of_Desire ) it's not quite what I was describing, though
assbot: The Botany of Desire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8flOR )
adlai: or rather, he's only looking at one *psychoactive* plant, and he's looking at it from the plant's perspective
nubbins`: oh sure
nubbins`: look at orchids
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00034118 = 1.723 BTC [+]
adlai: i'm also suspicious of any researcher who's named after his subjects' gametes
nubbins`: there are species that still imitate the appearance of their once-favoured pollinators, now long extinct
assbot: A flower hints at the appearance of an extinct bee « Why Evolution Is True ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGy308 )
adlai: mircea_popescu: graphs on mpex have been wonky today
mircea_popescu: wonky how ?
adlai: they don't all display on the main page, sometimes all do, sometimes one or two missing. sometimes they're missing from the asset page too.
mircea_popescu: a. yeah.
adlai: right now S.WOL is missing
adlai: it has already been established that you sabotage your own uptime to test our attentiveness...
mircea_popescu: transient situation.
adlai: nubbins`: this is my favorite evolution story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_flagella
assbot: Evolution of flagella - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGzcEV )
mircea_popescu: (also, swol is not missing, just, nothing there)
adlai: well, earlier mpoe was missing
adlai: first time I didn't mention it, second time I mentioned it but it was back by the time you asked "wonky how"
adlai: why would you have a "featured in" section with images of newspapers, but no links to the actual article!?
adlai refuses to link the site because they don't deserve the publicity of getting laughed at
adlai: suffice it to say that it's one of the zillion worthless "bitcoin startups"
mircea_popescu: because they saw it on some other site
mircea_popescu: or more likely, because the theme they ripped came with the icons.
assbot: MPEx (S.MPOE) November 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGDzQp )
adlai: "Tech, 24.87832294 BTC" awfully specific...
mircea_popescu: kinda no practical way to make these not relate to one another
assbot: Promechard: Proprietary Metablock Chains for Arbitrary Data ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGEgJn )
assbot: MPEx (S.MPOE) July 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pGEksD )
adlai: oic
adlai: !s definitive advertising network
assbot: 0 results for 'definitive advertising network' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=definitive+advertising+network
adlai: mircea_popescu: why does it want an extra 35.56b
mircea_popescu: adlai huh ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, that was the van network, it was actuve for like a month.
adlai: "Please send exactly 0.01003556 BTC to 1btcaddressblabla"
mircea_popescu: to identify you.
adlai mutters something about the benefits of address reuse
mircea_popescu: namely ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53117 @ 0.00034107 = 18.1166 BTC [-] {2}
adlai: one address per customer makes it easier to tell which payment comes from which customer
mircea_popescu: ;;nethash
gribble: 309546849.256
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 50 @ 0.10745861 = 5.3729 BTC [+] {9}
mircea_popescu: it also happens to be the wrong thing. it makes it easier for ~everyone~, which is bad for user privacy. it requires more complexity, which costs money and opens the door to errors
mircea_popescu: as kraken found out the hard way.
adlai: and this can't happen with a shitty implementation (or user error) of discrimination based on dust-level change?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile using a single address has no cost associated, other than you know, one particular string of eight digits as opposed to another particular string of eight digits.
mircea_popescu: adlai anything can happen, but if you don't need a database you have less exposure to the things that can happen.
adlai: you don't need a database to associate pending payments to their dust amount?
adlai: what if shit happens between invoicing and payment?
adlai: server restarts for whatever reason, first thing it sees on startup is a payment with some amount of dust. how does it know which customer was issued that specific dust request, before the reboot?
mircea_popescu: you're aware that when you make an order you get sent an email. right ?
adlai doesn't have dementia, yet
mircea_popescu: so it looks if it sent a mail for that amount. if it does and the recipient correctly hashes to it, it sends it an email with teh code.
mircea_popescu: not like it matters if it's rebooted or anything.
adlai: "recipient correctly hashes to it" missing piece of the puzzle
mircea_popescu: but i enjoyed tormenting you with it fwiw
mircea_popescu: srsly nao, isn't it obvious by now, whenever immutability is achieved without a db, a hash was involved ?
adlai suspected something of the sort, but hasn't yet received his jump-to-conclusions mat
adlai: and when you're high enough, what's hashing if not a lookup in the database of MATHEMATICS ITSELF
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44225 @ 0.00035046 = 15.4991 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyway, as a general point : breaking the address <-> user relation is the most important thing to do for bitcoin's success on an individual level.
mircea_popescu: worst fucking idea, not reusing addresses.
mircea_popescu: the more ambiguous they are, the better.
adlai: too many negatives there... you're saying that reusing addresses makes them more ambiguous?
nubbins`: it makes the use thereof more ambiguous
mircea_popescu: they're separate clauses.
mircea_popescu: not reusing addresses is a bad idea ; reusing them makes them more ambiguous, which is good.
adlai: how? reuse ties two transactions together as having been signed by the same entity. this is OK for eg a business wanting to operate transparently, but less so for an individual wanting privacy
mircea_popescu: explain, because the logic doesn't follow.
adlai: Alice wants to pay Bob a bitcoin. She has one address with 2btc, so she creates a transaction sending bob one bitcoin, and one bitcoin change back to her own address. it's trivial to tell which bitcoin is alice's, and which is bob's.
adlai: scenario 2 - alice creates a transaction paying 1btc to one address, and 1btc to another. it's not trivial to tell (just from the transactions) which address belongs to whom.
adlai: lots more work for Eve
mircea_popescu: so you like to think.
nubbins`: i think you are both using different concepts of "reuse"
mircea_popescu: moreover, look at it in its proper light.
adlai: nubbins`: possibly, i'm against concept reuse :P
mircea_popescu: "adlai, you are charged before this court with high crimes of having derped on the internet in a forbidden manner"
mircea_popescu: "what proof do you have ?"
nubbins`: secnario 3: adlai and nubs each send a tx to 1mpexblahblah. they send their change wherever they like.
mircea_popescu: "you've paid to address X!"
mircea_popescu: "well but somebody did!"
mircea_popescu: "sure. lots of people. what's your point ?"
mircea_popescu: the key to escaping responsibility if being one of a group that did whatever. the way to implement this in bitcoin is through address reuse.
nubbins`: "but if all the movies go into the bin behind the movie return slot, how will they know who is returning their movies?"
adlai: "this address, which has previously been associated with you, made on of those transactions"
mircea_popescu: "associated" how ?
mircea_popescu: once this one use per address thing goes away, "associated" is a lolzword.
adlai: "you paid for your 1000btc porsche from it"
mircea_popescu: "wasn't me"
adlai: "kept the change, then paid address X later on"
adlai: ok, let's take the porsche then cuz it's evidently not yours!
mircea_popescu: "wasn't me"
nubbins`: adlai this is an argument against payout address reuse by individuals
nubbins`: mpex situation is accounts receivable address reuse
mircea_popescu: yeah nubbins has it. there's a difference here.
adlai: right
nubbins`: which afaict has no problems
mircea_popescu: bitbet does the same thing, it reuses addresses liberally.
assbot: Logged on 01-12-2014 14:37:30; adlai: how? reuse ties two transactions together as having been signed by the same entity. this is OK for eg a business wanting to operate transparently, but less so for an individual wanting privacy
mircea_popescu: nothing to do with transparency really.
mircea_popescu: everything to do with the very privacy of the users.
nubbins`: adlai i mean obviously buying $100k of btc from a government-approved exchange, immediately purchasing a porsche with it, keeping change in same address, buying H from silk road, keeping change in same address, buying mpex shares, etc etc
adlai: well it also gives transparency, as long as the people looking in trust that the business uses only those addresses
nubbins`: is a bad idea
nubbins`: but does this really need to be stated? :S
mircea_popescu: adlai sure but that's difficult to verify
nubbins` puts on a t-shirt with his home address and times when he will be away from his house, then goes to buy drugs w/ gold coins
adlai: don't forget to label your keys too
nubbins`: natch
nubbins`: address reuse also thwarts phishing attempts
mircea_popescu: certainly.
mircea_popescu: and in so doing provides the perfect pill against the hearn idiocy of "let's import heardbleed into btc
nubbins`: the forum is riddled with stories of scammers preying on group buys by PMing people saying "hey its me, adlai`, plz to send btc to 1Scamblahblah"
mircea_popescu: it'll work fine if we call it PKI instead"
adlai: nubbins`: aka the idiot tax
adlai: as slimy as phish may be, it's a key part of our survival as a species
nubbins`: ehhhhhhhh
adlai actually heard the words "they said it in the factory tour, so it's probably true" a few days ago
nubbins`: key part of our survival as economic creatures
mircea_popescu: it's a key part of the survival OF WOMEN
nubbins`: !s WOMEN from:mircea_popescu
assbot: 700 results for 'WOMEN from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=WOMEN+from%3Amircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: !s drugs from:nubbins`
assbot: 59 results for 'drugs from:nubbins`' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=drugs+from%3Anubbins%60
nubbins`: dat case, dat point
assbot: #bitcoin-assets stats ... ( http://bit.ly/1vbe7Dj )
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 59/ 20746 / 700 / 111250
adlai won't look at those until they're on bloomberg (due to customer demand)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69900 @ 0.00035116 = 24.5461 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: !s men from:mircea_popescu
assbot: 288 results for 'men from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=men+from%3Amircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: well at least i'm not gay.
mircea_popescu: !s anal from:mircea_popescu
assbot: 52 results for 'anal from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=anal+from%3Amircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: !s sex from:mircea_popescu
assbot: 253 results for 'sex from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=sex+from%3Amircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: hey, that's actually kinda accurate.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94500 @ 0.00035156 = 33.2224 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: !s oral from:mircea_popescu
assbot: 14 results for 'oral from:mircea_popescu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=oral+from%3Amircea_popescu
adlai: it'd be kinda cool to work for nsa or whoever have !s over everything everybody has ever said
jurov: !s oral to:mircea_popescu << nanotube this should be implemented
assbot: 0 results for 'oral to:mircea_popescu << nanotube this should be implemented' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=oral+to%3Amircea_popescu+%3C%3C+nanotube+this+should+be+implemented
mircea_popescu: nubbins` can you appreciate how damned rare it is, a few occurences over tens of thousands of LINES ?
adlai: probably the lizard schutzstaffel
mircea_popescu: !up kakobrekla
mircea_popescu: as in UP YOURS
punkman: adlai, anything interesting about that besided being lisp?
adlai: punkman: it seems to overlap, to some degree, the goals of the deeds project
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: !s sex http://pastebin.com/FGt21TCn
assbot: mf doom - kookies - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8yikJ )
punkman: adlai: how does it not destroy coins?
nubbins`: or i guess !s jacking off, more accurately
mircea_popescu: emails/females ? that's some hardcore rhyming.
mircea_popescu: ima off sending some shemales some emales nao.
adlai: punkman: "Assuming each of these transactions includes a miner fee of 0.1 mbits (millibits), this would cost the proprietor 36.5 mbits a year."
adlai: (from the paper)
assbot: MF DOOM - Kookies - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1vbg3vO )
mircea_popescu: adlai what i don't get is : some group is trying to do something punkman already did, and we're using.
nubbins`: if you want it spit instead of typed
mircea_popescu: why are you telling him about them ? tell them about him.
punkman: also, do you see any benefit in including previous metablock hash in next metablock?
adlai: how do you know I haven't told them about him?
mircea_popescu: i don't see them here.
adlai: lol
mircea_popescu: going "oh punkman, you're our idol, bless us"
adlai: availability. punkman is right here, pasting links cost nothing...
mircea_popescu: so either they're dumb or you've not told 'em and they're dumb.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but abusing availability is how availability goes away eh ?
adlai: true
punkman: while we're on the topic, I want to make a service that fetches a URL, hashes contents, and then bundles and notarizes those. thoughts?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00035112 = 3.4761 BTC [-]
nubbins`: jurov wrong bot dad
mircea_popescu: punkman as html ?
jurov: nubbins` my bad
mircea_popescu: it'd be a great thing, page verification, but so many things can fuck it up. like, any page that includes the current time. a theme upgrade.
punkman: mircea_popescu: yeah but also other options. screenshots or WARC can also be done.
nubbins`: anyway good idea
punkman: mircea_popescu: why's that a problem?
nubbins`: dat regex
adlai: the page will never verify
nubbins`: never ever
mircea_popescu: yeah, it'll be rare that it verifies so impossible to put to practical use.
adlai: if the data you hash includes a timestamp
nubbins`: which rendering engine will you use?
punkman: the service would notarize the fact that on X date, the contents were something that hashes to Y hash
mircea_popescu: yeah but...
nubbins`: how about pages that generate different html based on browser capabilities?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50637 @ 0.00035194 = 17.8212 BTC [+] {2}
adlai: this could work better in tandem with something(s) that archives the page itself
mircea_popescu: there are incredibly many problems with this. kinda why html is so hated
punkman: I've considered fetching from multiple geographical locations
punkman: at extra cost
nubbins`: i mean
mircea_popescu: there's a reason the wayback machine is run as charity.
nubbins`: you're going to hash a session id?
mircea_popescu: but here's an idea : have THEM maybe use your thing ?
adlai: what about contents?
mircea_popescu: shoot them an email, hash all their pages ?
nubbins`: you and i pull down a website right now using the same browser on the same hardware, we're getting different content
nubbins`: it's unverifiable, full stop
adlai: let the user (who requests hashing site content) specify somehow the part of the site they want hashed
nubbins`: let the user copy and paste it
adlai: then your hash confirms that this site contained a certain text
mircea_popescu: yeah but then how do you prove it's off the site.
nubbins`: bullshit it does.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only way to do this is with sworn testimony.
mircea_popescu: you basically have to ask someone to go there confirm your screenshot is correct.
punkman: nubbins`: preview before bundling, so you make sure it didn't need JS enabled when you only asked for HTML
nubbins`: let the user open element inspector, change the headline on aljazeera.com to say "adlai sniffs farts", hash that and send it off
nubbins`: it proves they ran the article
nubbins`: right?
adlai: that wouldn't work unless I could change the document that punkman's bot fetched
mircea_popescu: adlai what if i select every 6th letter and it spells out "i did your mom"
nubbins`: adlai think it thru
nubbins`: punkman's bot fetched a document, right?
punkman: the idea is basically this https://archive.today/ but with signing
assbot: archive.today - webpage capture ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8BGfj )
nubbins`: what document did it fetch?
adlai: nubbins`: think what through? you can change whatever you want in your own browser, but you can't change the communication between bot and server without compromising somethnig
nubbins`: fuck the bot
mircea_popescu: actually... sure you can, but let's not get into the entire mitm http story.
adlai: don't kick the baby
nubbins`: i can do a deed by hand
adlai: mitm http = compromising something
nubbins`: i can also hash a html document by hand and send dust to it
nubbins`: "hey man the bot didn't pick up my file"
mircea_popescu: no, because something you can't verify isn't something, it's chtulhu.
adlai: no, that's "I created some file, and the bot isn't agreeing with it"
adlai: nubbins`: the bot's signature on a file isn't proof-of-existence, it's proof-of-that-server-said-this-to-me-at-that-time
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: (i think) << pretty sure you're right.
adlai: back in basic training this one drill sergeant said some words that have echoed with me to this day... "If you ever start thinking something, just stop."
nubbins`: no, it's proof that the bot hashed a string of text and sent dust to the address
adlai: the whole point is that you trust that the bot only does that for text that it fetches from URLs
nubbins`: or are we taking the bot on blind faith now?
mircea_popescu: btw, it occurs to me, the one thing qntra would really need would be a resident business/finance analyst.
assbot: perma.cc ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8CLDN )
mircea_popescu: mike_c how you doin' on time these days ?
adlai: punkman: either nubbins` or I are kinda missing the point, can you explain it again pls?
nubbins`: so we trust that the bot fetches text from a website and doesn't alter it and hashes it and sends dust to the address
punkman: adlai, what you said
nubbins`: but there's no way to verify it because we'll never get the same hash
mircea_popescu: well, rarely.
nubbins`: so we actually have to visit the site at the time the bot archives it
mike_c: limited, but I could handle something.
mircea_popescu: i think trilema perhaps hashes to the same thing.
nubbins`: to verify with our own eyes that that's what the site said
adlai: which is why you give the bot a URL and an xpath (or regex, or whatever you like for specifying a part of the document)
nubbins`: and then make a note of it for future reference
nubbins`: this is retarded
adlai: so the bot doesn't say, "the entire document fetched from <url> hashed to <hash>"
adlai: it says, "the document fetched from <url> contained a section, located at <path>, hashing to <hash>"
mike_c: you looking for somebody to analyze btc businesses? that's a tough task with the limited information they usually provide.
punkman: you also get the contents the bot fetched so you can download for safekeeping
mircea_popescu: mike_c lemme value proposition you : if you're going to work now and again, it may work much better to be a qntra star analyst and get shares for that work, than sorta be stuck with a solo blog.
adlai: that's working in tandem with an archive, with crowdsourced archives :)
nubbins`: so the bot says "the phrase 'i hate newfies' fetched from the url http://iwouldneversaythatihatenewfies.com hashed to <hash>"
nubbins`: useful
mike_c: yes, but qntra posts don't have graphs
mike_c: maybe i could fix that.
mircea_popescu: mostly because you're not there yet.
mircea_popescu: tandacoin: i have read logs of bitcoin assets but i'm not sure how to get word of trust << o.O the cuteliest!
mircea_popescu: ;;seen tandacoin
gribble: tandacoin was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 15 hours, 20 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <tandacoin> you guys have no idea how to do business or journalism, im not going to waste my time with u
mike_c: this is perhaps a good idea. i gotta run for a bit. but I think you're right.
adlai: nubbins`: "you can't not communicate". that would say that either the owner of that domain is a liar, and said at that time that he hates newfies, or that bot has become unreliable.
mircea_popescu: that final u is priceless.
mircea_popescu: YOU GUYSE!
mircea_popescu: have no idea.
adlai: how is journo formed??? how page get views?
nubbins`: i pronounce u as "oo" in my head
adlai imagines that the author is french and forgot the t
nubbins`: and the o and the i
nubbins`: bbl lunch
mircea_popescu: you mean lnch
adlai: yo mean yo
assbot: Yo - It's that simple. ... ( http://bit.ly/1vbntPE )
mircea_popescu: Yoco sounds like a future artist / sextape protagonist
mircea_popescu: cazalla: tandacoin, stick around, i need to finish current article and then head off to a pokemon meetup << bwahahaha
mircea_popescu: im saving this one in a special compartment, it's too good.
punkman: can't tell if trolling
mircea_popescu: no but imagine, perez hilton comes here to get my take on shoes
mircea_popescu: i'm all like "nigga wait, i gotta pokemon brb"
mircea_popescu: "tandacoin:we get 4k pageviews a day how muh do you get?" ahahah this was so great.
adlai: that awkward moment when you say bye, then realize that your friend is also going to pokemon
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65700 @ 0.00035268 = 23.1711 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: fwiw : qntra.net us alexa rank 165,888 ; altcoinpress.com us alexa rank 227,200. (larger is worse).
kakobrekla: isnt alexa rank like rand()*2/2
mircea_popescu: well yeah, about on par with random derp calling ourpages();
mircea_popescu: "And indeed, the output of the CPRNG is very biased. The output of each step of the CPRNG is a number from 0 to 25; you would expect successive outputs to be the same around one time in 26, but my experiments show that the frequency is closer to 1/22.5." <<< shcneier made a cypher. heh.
adlai: how is alexa formed? how does blog get viewy?
mircea_popescu: iirc they had a toolbar.
mircea_popescu: basically it's "how many idiots end up on your site"
kakobrekla: so qntra is actually doing worse idiotwise than that other thing
adlai: what ever happened to backroom deals with ISPs
adlai: they need to learn from nielsen
mircea_popescu: adlai they cost money ? i dunno.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla well, worse is better.
adlai: they don't have to cost money if you can dress it up as a service you sell the ISP
adlai: for example: you've got the data, we've got the scientists
mircea_popescu: what do you think this is, 1995 ?
mircea_popescu: "honey, you've got the tits, I got the canes"
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03: i feel this encourages an echo chamber as it continues << this is prolly true. on the other hand, most of the intelligent people that were ever going to hear about bitcoin have by now.
mircea_popescu: what's left are the idiots.
adlai has met a few intelligent people who have heard about bitcoin but are taking their time learning about it
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: the general discussion here also changed a lot over last years << i'd loive to hear your take on that ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o wow, you back ? EMAIL ME!
adlai: it seems that the general cycle is that these people hear about bitcoin, learn a tiny bit about it, and park it in the back of their mind for a few years
mircea_popescu: seems reasonable.
mircea_popescu: i certainly do the same with most things.
mircea_popescu: "Name Most Important. But it was quite unexpected that the name of the coin does play the most important role over the long term, since it’s the only one thing from the five features, mentioned above, that cannot be changed, or significantly improved."
adlai: I guess tacking an X on the end is an insignificant improvement?
mircea_popescu: "So let’s try to build a rating of the cryptocurrency names of real coins, based on various criteria: Brightness. Seriousness of name (as a currency, the name shouldn’t be fun). Whether the name is conceptual (makes sense, dedicated to ideas), or not."
adlai: hobonickles!
mircea_popescu: so bizarre this. deconstructing it, pretty much the only takeaway is whoa, check out the puritans!
mircea_popescu: some esl kid on the fringe of culture nevertheless believes that "as a Category", X "shouldn't be fun".
mircea_popescu: apodictically, just like that.
mircea_popescu: "Does it have money or financial mental associations, or even slight links, for example, Luckycoin is for luck, that is necessary to become rich, Mooncoin means Moon, and the Moon drives ocean waters and financial flows (as assumed in financial astrology) plus ‘to the moon’ means also price growing process… And MEOW, or BBQ coins have no these associations at all)."
adlai: apodiction breeds apodidaction
mircea_popescu: "Dick Valis. Dick is an altcoin enthusiast and student of philosophy. He enjoys writing about cryptocurrencies and spending his time exploring reality and searching for truth."
mircea_popescu: why does he sound like a 16yo vietnamese girl ?
adlai: that's philip k dick
mircea_popescu: a so it is.
mircea_popescu: adlai what's apodidaction ?
adlai: apo+dictic = away from speech, unquestionable
adlai: autodidact = self-taught
adlai: cross the two and you get an unteachable idiot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: the undoing of C.. due to its memory unsafety they must decide to either bloat the kernel or suffer the overhead << entirely spurious argument advanced << no but address the actual point rather than the idiots putting it forth.
mircea_popescu: yes but -ion requires a process
jurov: ;;isup deeds.bitcoin-assets.com
gribble: deeds.bitcoin-assets.com is down
mircea_popescu: punkman ^
mircea_popescu: adlai speaking of which, i wonder how many people who use "i have no words" in their apology realise the irony.
adlai: apodidaction = away/apart from the process of teaching
mircea_popescu: moar like "taking away from teaching". apodidactic, "which is away"
adlai is not enough of a classics scholar to debate this much further
adlai: let's just settle on quidquid latine dictum sitis, altus sonator
adlai: sonatUR
mircea_popescu: well... there's good reason for that.
mircea_popescu: they didn't use to teach monkeys and donkeys letters back then, for one.
kakobrekla: i'd loive to hear your take on that ? < well my take is that i used to be one of the smart people on the chan and now im one of the stupid
assbot: Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8NyOv )
mircea_popescu: ahahaha poor kako. tide went out from under his butt
adlai: so THAT'S why you brought me in here!
mircea_popescu: you;'re smart, the problem with you is that you don't know much.
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0H33QSD.txt )
adlai: !b 1
adlai: iirc it was Dennett who said that ignorance should not be seen as an insult
mircea_popescu: well... someone fishing for insults in b-a would get well fed in short order. but no, it's not an insult.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: no you don't understand unless it's a perfect solution it's entirely worthless << lawl.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform keeping the old MIT spirit alive. "what's the most important thing to remember about this great achievement ?"
mircea_popescu: "that it sucks."
adlai: my problem with me is that I don't know what I want to learn next
adlai: so I flutter about, dabbling in this and that, and never really going anywhere
mircea_popescu: that's a problem.
kakobrekla: so now im ignorant?
kakobrekla: idk i wouldnt know!
mircea_popescu: the only way a good intellect can be used is through achieving excellent depth in one field, that can then be leveraged in all fields. otherwise, if you never anchor, it'll just mush around
kakobrekla: cause im ignorant prolly.
adlai: at least you've got strength going for ya
mircea_popescu: no he doesn't.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64648 @ 0.00035361 = 22.8602 BTC [+] {3}
kakobrekla has nothing.
kakobrekla: but a barrel (ready).
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: <asciilifeform> if you are pwned while using 'brainwallets', simply shows that your brain is defective < no need to test this hypothesis the result is known << all brains are defective, is the thing.
mircea_popescu: ;;google et la tete sur le robinet
gribble: Tête de robinet... - Plomberie - PiecesPlomberie.com: <http://www.piecesplomberie.com/plomberie/tete-de-robinet.html>; Robinets thermostatiques, tête thermostatique - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n__r-fIBQow>; Tête de robinet : Apiman, tête de robinets courtes et longues, avec et ...: <http://www.apiman.fr/126-tete-de-robinet>
mircea_popescu: ;;google chevalliers de la table ronde
gribble: Chevaliers de la table ronde: <http://www.southwestern.edu/~prevots/songs/?p=30>; 113. Chevaliers de la Table Ronde (Traditional French) - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPanlQD4hpA>; Comptine Chevaliers de la Table Ronde 35553 - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CDM6C0zZuw>
kakobrekla: not homus cyptoheadus or whatever
kakobrekla: crypto*
adlai: mircea_popescu: "excellent depth in one field" << what's yours?
mircea_popescu: "Les deux pieds contre la mureille et la tete sous le robinet." << :D
mircea_popescu: adlai physics, originally.
adlai: that's like "i work with computers"
adlai: excellent depth in physics can mean so many totally different things
mircea_popescu: yeah but it doesn't actually matter which specifically it means.
mircea_popescu: solid state magnetism, fwiw.
adlai: hm
adlai doesn't see "work with computers" as a good candidate for excellent depth
mircea_popescu: no, but any of the toipics that often come up here could make it up.
adlai: seems more of a tool for digging into other fields, whether a "hard" science, or just making impossible things hard in other endeavors
mircea_popescu: nah, it's an art in its own, not merely a craft.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83550 @ 0.0003445 = 28.783 BTC [-] {7}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: browser plugin !?!?! << o.O
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: the beautifully dark cream-your-pants future of 'shall be delivered' is not attainable until folks learn to remember serious keys (yes, remember. with head.) << this is like saying the frankish empire has to wait for people who can make swords. by hand!
mircea_popescu: no it doesn't. charlemagne wasn't a blacksmith, and a thousand years later the orleans that WAS a blacksmith made a shitty king
adlai: well, any advice on how to pick a field is welcome. picture a highschool dropout with centipede's dilemma about where to start fixing his ignorance
jurov: asciilifeform's argument fits better when it's about wielding the sword, not forging it
mircea_popescu: adlai what do you like anwyay ?
assbot: Genesis - I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8TJ4Z )
mircea_popescu: jurov true.
adlai: this is an answer on several levels... music plays a rather large role in my life, although the ratio of consumption/production has been too high lately;
mircea_popescu: you like... music ?
adlai: and the second level - this is a song about a lawnmower who gets pushed to do fancier things, but he just likes pushing a lawnmower around
mircea_popescu: has nothing to do with fancy. contrary to what the uncultured imagine, there's nothing fancy about the products of the spirit.
mircea_popescu: no fancier than dung, at any rate, and the results of the same biology.
adlai has been thinking a lot lately about generative music
adlai: most music (increasingly so for more popular music) is incredibly formulaic
mircea_popescu: you gotta learn shit before you get creative.
nubbins`: ;;gettrust devthedev
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user nubbins` to user devthedev: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=nubbins%60&dest=devthedev | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=devthedev | Rated since: Tue Jul 15 12:31:42 2014
mircea_popescu: adlai go read say 1700s treatises on music for a while. either french, italian or german, whatever you speak.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: the 'do-ocracy' does what it does best: does. << haha buncha progres.
adlai: all this talk is silly, though. the simple answer is to study math, and the real problem is lazyness, rack of dishiprin, etc
mircea_popescu: nah, math is not actually a thing.
adlai likes math, at least staring at its ass as it walks by... http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Kris/same.png
adlai: math is totally a thing!
adlai: math is more of a thing than most other things
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, other users of 'opera' - which one do you use? the 1990s close-source turd? or the 'new, impr0v3d' idiocy that uses 'webkit' (chrome) rendering engine ? <<< they only moved to webkit last year, version 15 or something. afaik the last usable versions are 10 something.
assbot: Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8NyOv )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: very much like bitcoin stuff, there's a 7-10 space where the thing's useful.
jurov: $proxies
empyex: jurov: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.biz mpex.co mpex.bz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
empyex: jurov: MPEx-Status: mpex.bz (97 milliseconds), mpex.biz (98 milliseconds), mpex.ws (116 milliseconds), mpex.co (217 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (451 milliseconds)
empyex: jurov: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √
adlai slinks off to splash about in the depthless swamp of website construction
jurov: apparently mpex.ws can't be resolved
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16097 @ 0.00035396 = 5.6977 BTC [+]
jurov: at least from somewhere
nubbins`: !s paper
assbot: 1193 results for 'paper' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=paper
assbot: Mpex.ws Whois Lookup - Who.is - Who.is ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8Wt2g )
mircea_popescu: didja get poisoned or something ?
kakobrekla: jurov did you ever update your trezor
jurov: kakobrekla: never
jurov: i never seriously used it yet
assbot: Logged on 30-11-2014 20:23:56; nubbins`: but FYI, i'm negotiating a price with a buyer now for my genesis block newspaper (the times jan 3 2009)
nubbins` rubs hands
jurov: mytrezor.com under linux got broken so i filed it under "fuck that"
mats_cd03: TSLA down 5 points today
mircea_popescu: wow look at that
jurov: dunno if there's bip32/trezor support in any noobish standalone client.. last i checked electrum was under development
mircea_popescu: over what ?
nubbins`: seen devthedev
nubbins`: er..
nubbins`: ;;seen devthedev
gribble: devthedev was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 11 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <devthedev> https://twitter.com/DevinSenaUI/status/534733650349535233
mircea_popescu: Headlines Tesla Stock To Lift Off After Battery Rechargeat Forbes(Mon 1:05AM EST) Demand For Tesla Is Not The Problem, Switching The World To Electric Cars Isat Forbes(Sun, Nov 30) TeslaInvestor's Business Daily(Fri, Nov 28) NVIDIA wants to increase its presence in big data through TeslaMarket Realist(Fri, Nov 28) Tesla Is On The Right Track To Doubleat Forbes(Fri, Nov 28)
mircea_popescu: insufficient pumping!
kakobrekla: well oil got cheaper no?
pete_dushenski: all straws on deck!
pete_dushenski: blow men! blow!
mats_cd03: seems two days ago musk announced tesla "will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology."
mats_cd03: no idea if thats related tho
mircea_popescu: cazalla: there is talk of raising it due to budget shortfalls despite the government that brough it in promising the legislation would never allow for such a thing to occur << typical of ALL TAXES EVER
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 somehow doubt it.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: decimation show me a country with no income tax that's not in affrica <<< easy, that.
mircea_popescu: argentines are striking against the INTRODUCTION of income tax.
nubbins`: monaco
nubbins`: bahamas
nubbins`: kuwait probably
nubbins`: oman, qatar...
mircea_popescu: the arabs have an equivalent of the serenissima tax tho
mircea_popescu: technically its an income tax
nubbins`: fair enough
pete_dushenski: so argentina has never in its long history had an income tax eh?
nubbins`: wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, says 9-35%
pete_dushenski: and after seeing what it's done to the rest of the world, they kinda have to strike
assbot: The Russian-European deadlock - Counting the Cost - Al Jazeera English ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8Zobh )
assbot: Los salarios brutos de hasta $15.000 no pagarán Impuesto a las Ganancias - lanacion.com   ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8ZQX5 )
mircea_popescu: i dunno, it's a convoluted topic.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski lulzy the confused reaction of a social media dude taken out of the eco chamber.
mircea_popescu: "excuse me ?" seems typical.
pete_dushenski: haha totally
assbot: iPad King's Bounty, the strategy guide pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z90BPZ )
pete_dushenski: and i thought i was leading him along nicely
mircea_popescu: these fuckwits fucked up the game for fucks sake.
pete_dushenski: then he went all "wtf my head hurts"
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu game broke?
mircea_popescu: the king's bounty thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43700 @ 0.000354 = 15.4698 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: right. just a new update and all that goodness is out the window or what?
mircea_popescu: nah, i just figured out how to break it.
pete_dushenski: ha o i c
pete_dushenski: what'd it take?
mircea_popescu: rune of "why can't we all be equal"
adlai: !s TSLA from:adlai
assbot: 1 results for 'TSLA from:adlai' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=TSLA+from%3Aadlai
adlai: :-o
ben_vulpes: re qntra advertising: advertising is downright wacky. the numbers say "don't do it" and yet people are constantly doing it.
adlai: fb's "Promoted Stories" are but a step towarsd the inevitable endgame: kickbacks for product placement in casual conversation
adlai: we've got quite a bit of escalation to go in this arms race
nubbins`: ehh i'm not so sure
nubbins`: was lacoste's inevitable endgame paying people to wear shirts with little alligators?
mircea_popescu: aren't they ?
adlai: they "pay" them by letting them associate with the brande
mircea_popescu: adlai anyway, it's bnot going to be run as an actual market, because cattle. so it will be run as a star market.
adlai: "it's"?
mircea_popescu: "tell your friends about budweiser's greatness in narrative form for a chance to win a can of beer"
adlai: I doubt people would be proud of such kickbacks, but shame doesn't stop people from peddling shit from carts in malls all over the world... this is just a few steps further, a few degrees further on the frog-boiling scale
assbot: The World According to AmericanGoy: Pushy Israelis in Every American Mall ... ( http://bit.ly/1yaNK2y )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16872 @ 0.0003471 = 5.8563 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 380.02, Best ask: 380.87, Bid-ask spread: 0.85000, Last trade: 380.86, 24 hour volume: 5838.62655680, 24 hour low: 373.03, 24 hour high: 382.31, 24 hour vwap: 377.722924571
PinkPosixPXE: 17:31 #bitcoin-assets: <+ben_vulpes> PinkPosixPXE's downright neat <<< Thanks! You are awesome as well, and thank you for the rating! :) I'm really glad my contribution helped out, happy to help any time :)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: all brains are defective, is the thing << elaborate plz
pete_dushenski: maybe in the sense that brains aren't rational computers of ev ?
mod6: ;;rated PinkPosixPXE
gribble: You rated user PinkPosixPXE on Wed Oct 22 13:06:41 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Helped me out testing ben_vulpes install script..
mod6: ;;rate PinkPosixPXE 2 Wrote a script for The Bitcoin Foundation contained in this document: http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000015.html
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user PinkPosixPXE has changed from 1 to 2.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: seems to me like he was of the 'brainwallet can be guessed' school of thought. i disagree. if yours can be guessed, you are either lazy or stupid
PinkPosixPXE: Thanks mod6! :D
mod6: No problem. Thank /you/ for putting that together. :]
PinkPosixPXE: Definitely, any time :)
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform to the extent that the vast majority fall into one of those two camps, maybe that'd be the defective element
kakobrekla: actually both camps.
pete_dushenski: and guessed by who, what? is another question
adlai: brains are definitely shitty entropy sources
adlai: but they can work fairly well for storing it
pete_dushenski: brains store stories well, "create" less well
kakobrekla: if you take out convenience factor completely theres is plenty of solutions
adlai: wtfireworks!?
kakobrekla: happy new year
kakobrekla: heard it here first
adlai: you know it's a srs display when chickens and dogs join in
adlai: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/qntra-november-demo.jpg <- interesting that ~half the readership have kids, I'd have expected fewer
pete_dushenski: ^sorta hard to "prove" they have kids
pete_dushenski: not like it's a browser setting
adlai: uhoh, site affinity for reddit.com is 51.2x!
assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1A89UQO )
kakobrekla: meh reddit... 'reddit police' ddosing bbet, 'reddit bitcoin' retweeting bitbet tweets at same time
PinkPosixPXE: ;;rate mod6 2 Great collaboration and work done for the Bitcoin Foundation : http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000015.html
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user mod6 has been recorded.
kakobrekla: love it or hate it ? make up your goddamn mind.
PinkPosixPXE: ;;rate ben_vulpes 1 Great work done for the Bitcoin Foundation : http://f9beb4d9.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000015.html
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ben_vulpes has been recorded.
mod6: PinkPosixPXE: tyvm!
PinkPosixPXE: you're very welcome! :)
rithm: ;;ratingsystem getrating mod6
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask mod6!~mod6@unaffiliated/mod6 . User mod6, rated since Mon Oct 10 16:26:38 2011. Cumulative rating 46, from 25 total ratings. Received ratings: 25 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 28 positive, 0 negative. Details: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mod6
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00035408 = 12.499 BTC [+]
rithm: ;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation sucks
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user mod6 has been recorded.
kakobrekla: oh this is gonna cause so much confusion.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1580 @ 0.001245 = 1.9671 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: i see, two soldiers from opposing foundation forces find themselfs in a pitch dark room.
kakobrekla: one hears something moving, points the gun in the dark and asks "who are you? are you with the bitcoin foundation?"
kakobrekla: the other surprised "yes! ... you?"
kakobrekla: "yes me too."
kakobrekla: then they proceed to shooting each other.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74666 @ 0.00033987 = 25.3767 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: adlai: fentanyl: yes please
adlai: kakobrekla: cf "allied athiest alliance"
assbot: Atheist War - Video Clips - South Park Studios ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8esa5 )
kakobrekla: aha ok havent seen that
kakobrekla: ignorant n stuff
adlai: there are probably better ways to watch that clip/episode, but I definitely can't send you a url to an external HD that isn't even connected
adlai: tl;dw: three competing organizations wage endless war in the distant future: Allied Atheist Alliance, United Atheist Alliance, and Unified Atheist League
kakobrekla: aha but srsly i dont think that rithm thinks what he thinks he thinks
mod6: ;;gpg info rithm
gribble: User 'rithm', with keyid None, fingerprint None, and bitcoin address 1FmiRARq96daxufSYKQM6SHDjwagV1J5XN, registered on Tue Apr 1 16:20:33 2014, last authed on Wed Jul 16 11:52:05 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=rithm . Currently not authenticated.
adlai: Dawkins... thought the future war among the different atheists sects, which he felt had "a certain amount of truth in it"... reminded him of the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea
assbot: PLAYBOY INTERVIEW: RICHARD DAWKINS | Playboy ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8fqmK )
kakobrekla: aha yeah dont you mix those two
mod6: ;;gpg info jcpham
gribble: User 'jcpham', with keyid C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, fingerprint F7299BD73879E866613EAB24C71FB5ED6ACE04AF, and bitcoin address 157CrafPv8oGC7f5vVFuLnE1BgDYUND4hq, registered on Fri Nov 11 12:21:29 2011, last authed on Mon Dec 1 10:26:41 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=jcpham . Currently authenticated from hostmask rithm!~rithm@unaffiliated/rithm . CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick.
mod6: ah. ok. rithm, you do realize that gavin & the power-rangers derpation thingy is different than ours tho right?
kakobrekla: <rithm> ;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation sucks
kakobrekla: <rithm> ;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation rocks
kakobrekla: fixes all confusion
rithm: ;;rate mod6 1 Deserves a token rating even though bitcoin foundation rocks the cocks
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mod6 has changed from 1 to 1.
mod6: heheh
ben_vulpes: rithm: f9beb4d9.org
rithm: this will never work because it's all plain text
rithm: at least use bottstrap
kakobrekla: idk what easier to remember the raw ip or that url
mod6: tough call
ben_vulpes: opera doesn't have browse history?
kakobrekla: i didnt claim it was a problem
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 915 @ 0.00124945 = 1.1432 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65700 @ 0.00033897 = 22.2703 BTC [-]
assbot: HSBC Cuts Ties with GABI | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHRojw )
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 800 @ 0.00126967 = 1.0157 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22549 @ 0.00034725 = 7.8301 BTC [+]
adlai: global allied bitcoin allianca!
Anduck: .deeds
Anduck: .deed
adlai: ;;isup deeds.bitcoin-assets.com
Anduck: its not up
gribble: deeds.bitcoin-assets.com is down
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: ;;later tell cazalla the blockquote text is borkt on http://qntra.net/2014/12/michael-mizrachi-aka-the-grinder-to-launch-bitcoin-based-poker-site/ << fixed
assbot: Michael Mizrachi AKA The Grinder To Launch Bitcoin Based Poker Site | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/12gaBN2 )
adlai: oooh why was I never pointed at http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-tech-stuff/
assbot: MPEx tech stuff pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHT7p3 )
assbot: Its signed, must be legit http://t.co/bX3jlrGm79
adlai: hang around bitcoin for long enough and you realized that around these parts, "enhance" is pronounced "hash"
adlai: in case you've been living in a dark attic with no TV shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk
assbot: Let's Enhance - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/12geIJ4 )
adlai: best part is when they fucking rotate the picture, I mean... did nobody in the film crew ever hold a fucking camera in their life!?
kakobrekla: bitwise rotation?
adlai: 1:10 in the linked video
adlai: just... just watch it
rithm: therealbitcoin.org is easy enough to remember
assbot: Why you don't want to watch CSI - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHUHHD )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00033858 = 5.248 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform << elaborate plz << what's to say really ? brains aren't made for thinking specifically anymore than html is made for the web. they just got pressed into this service.
mircea_popescu: it's a perpetual and uphill battle to keep them more or less in line with logic
mircea_popescu: and that's taking a very lax view of "line" and "logic".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: legs weren't made for ballet either. what of it.
mircea_popescu: actually
mircea_popescu: no, legs were made for ballet quite specifically.
mircea_popescu: <adlai> http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/qntra-november-demo.jpg <- interesting that ~half the readership have kids, I'd have expected fewer << that's not what the data says.
mircea_popescu: according to whatever indexes they keep, qntra is above average is all.
mircea_popescu: like, if out of the 1bn people on the internet 100mn have kids, and out of the 1000 people on qntra 103 have kids.
kakobrekla: possibly
adlai: oic
adlai: it's an index relative to the internet average
mike_c: yes, and it's 97% certain to be within +- %50 of what it says.
kakobrekla: most of the time on average
mike_c: 11% to 60% of the time
kakobrekla: aha hehe
mircea_popescu: anyway, the "no black people" thing was funny. i guess cazalla's putting something in the water.
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> love it or hate it ? make up your goddamn mind. << what mind ?
mircea_popescu: that's why it's one reddit, no mind.
mircea_popescu: sooo... icbit is finally gone after all ?
mike_c: just hidden.
assbot: ICBIT Web Trading ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHYYe0 )
mike_c: looks like volume is in the gutter though.
BingoBoingo: What, did icbit just pretend to slog along long enough that they won't be down a full month before their Bitbet closes? http://bitbet.us/bet/643/icbit-se-exchange-will-shut-down-in-2014/
assbot: BitBet - icbit.se exchange will shut down in 2014 :: 0.06 B (31%) on Yes, 0.14 B (69%) on No | closed 1 month 1 day ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHZxVg )
mircea_popescu: <adlai> oooh why was I never pointed at << no actually i think you were, like eartly on
BingoBoingo: Is the new scamzor MO, "STFU we outlasted the BitBet Bet?"
mircea_popescu: mike_c well there's this out of business bitbet
mircea_popescu: and ima put a hold on it because srsly it does not seem to exist anymore.
mircea_popescu: i mean, broken website "rebranding" and wtf is this.
assbot: MPEx tech stuff pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHZOr6 )
mike_c: i am glad i'm not a mod. "out of business" is not so clear in btc-land..
mircea_popescu: mike_c fortunately total interest is like a quarter, so nobodu's losing any sleep over it.
assbot: BitBet - icbit.se exchange will shut down in 2014 :: 0.06 B (31%) on Yes, 0.14 B (69%) on No | closed 1 month 1 day ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1FHZVTz )
mircea_popescu: oops didn't see BingoBoingo's lol.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83434 @ 0.00035558 = 29.6675 BTC [+] {3}
adlai: mpex chart dead again
adlai: er, mpoe
adlai: aha, it's only dead on .ws
mircea_popescu: i see it of course.
assbot: ICBIT Web Trading ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI0FIp )
assbot: OrderBook.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI0FIt )
kakobrekla: same thing
kakobrekla: too much shit when you google their name so they switch my guess
mircea_popescu: you don't understand how rebranding works.
kakobrekla: im ignorant like that.
dub: ignant mafakas in dis #ferguson
assbot: WARNING! FRAUD ALERT | The Bitcoin Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI1WiN )
ben_vulpes is curious as to the total take
kakobrekla waits the day bitcoin foundation puts out a warning about bitcoin foundation
assbot: bitcointalk.org Site Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/1FI25T9 )
BingoBoingo: That decline
mircea_popescu: "Over the past few days we have noticed a significant uptick in complaints directed at our help desk about a fraud being perpetrated upon innocent Bitcoin users."
mircea_popescu: nigga wut ? what desk lol.
asciilifeform: i was actually disappointed to learn that the linked piece was not about us.
mircea_popescu: where did they find a pretentious noob blogger to write this typical sort of pretentious noob blogger shit
assbot: Magical Thinking: Bitcoin Gathers at Disney ... ( http://bit.ly/1rOfKr8 )
rithm: favorite quote so far: "That's enough money to create a small industry of people whose sole work is just sort of talking about bitcoin all the time."
BingoBoingo: Well, that did happen
adlai: if a scammer runs, but nobody in #bitcoin-assets lost money... did it even happen?
rithm: define money
rithm: losing time might be more precious than time in some circumstances
rithm: s/money
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54250 @ 0.00034363 = 18.6419 BTC [-] {3}
adlai: this is true, it's quite distressing, this lack of fungibility... I can pay somebody else for their time, but I can't buy mine back
adlai: although I guess retiring is a form of buying your own time
mircea_popescu: adlai you ever heard of patrick harnett's bitcoin bank etc ?
rithm: i would regret allowing myself to listen to the scammer in the first place, more than the money, it's a gut feeling thing
adlai: the name rings a bell, I'm sure google can deliver, if it's really relevant that I know this particular scam (it was a scam, no?)
rithm: i hate everyone.
rithm: the misprioritized time would be devastating
mircea_popescu: adlai guy was pretty much a sort of vessenes of 2012
mircea_popescu: kept making all sorts of idiotic claims, giving "ratings" and the whole shebang
rithm: did the starfish pull an exit scam also
mircea_popescu: professional and so forth.
mircea_popescu: then i lent him some btc he couldn't repay, specifically for this purpose
mircea_popescu: and then that was the end of him.
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, you lent like 200 btc, right ?
mircea_popescu: kinda shocking for the idiots at the time, because before i did that, everyone just schmoozied with the scamers
cazalla: does qntra's november report not verify? is that what davout is saying in his comment? if someone can check, would appreciate
mircea_popescu: as in, you know, rather than book a loss, pretend like it never happened. because if you don't agree it happened, it didn't really happen.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic something like that.
rithm: if you didn't blink an eye and give it two seconds thought, who is to say it happened
adlai has all kinds of things to say about giving 200btc to such a person, although they're founded on initial impressions so he'll keep them to himself
rithm: unless you spent a lot time cementing it into your relaity
mircea_popescu: cazalla : the problem is that wordpress fucks up the dashes
mircea_popescu: put <pre> tags around the text.
mircea_popescu: adlai was about 500 bux at the time.
mircea_popescu: money well spent, because it resolved a particular set of otherwise very pernicious claims.
mircea_popescu: just like the entire posters affair.
adlai: the guy welshed for $500!?
adlai: ok, let's say you weren't the only mark... still
rithm: mircea_popescu did better at "more than a car, less than a house" than me
rithm: unsecured loans are not a good idea, people.
mircea_popescu: adlai not what it was. more of a "couldn't really refuse" sort of thing.
assbot: Logged on 27-11-2014 12:56:26; nubbins`: mircea_popescu:well if he did nubbins has some 'splainin' to do lol. <<< nope, in fact, i am also mildly perturbed by the fact that i mailed over $4,000 of goods to the guy and we didn't even get a couple measly pictures out of it
mircea_popescu: same principle at work.
mircea_popescu: yeah, it cost me some money, but it also established a point. to my benefit, and of course to anyone else's who's paying attention, but that's a freebie for small fish.
mircea_popescu: kinda how this entire capitalism thing works.
cazalla: ;;later tell davout fixed formatting, you should be able to verify now, ty for headsup
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: also kinda why any kind of non-regressive taxation is bullshit.
mircea_popescu: the small players always benefit more from the big players than the reverse.
mircea_popescu: gpg: Good signature from "Jonathan Bahr ayup
cazalla: don't go putting my name in the logs lol
cazalla: guess too late now
adlai: too late, it's there alongside robby
mircea_popescu: i'm sure anyone who cares enough could as well have folloed the gpg sig ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, who here wants to go to the next porn conference ?
rithm: me me me me i like pron
rithm: i'm bringing weed, crown royal, lots of blow, and not one change of clothes
assbot: Adult Entertainment Expo 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1rOn1Hm )
cazalla: step foot on american soil? i'm good
BingoBoingo: Looks like a job for asciilifeform or ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: aren;'t you closer to las vegas ?
mircea_popescu: maybe petey the pimp is going. yo pete.
rithm: i have people i can stay with in vegas
asciilifeform: i almost fell down. someone showed me a new intel cpu, and it had the inscription 'vietnam.'
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm closer than alf further than vulpes
mircea_popescu: anyway, i need someone to go there and bring me a coupla affiliate managers.
mircea_popescu: it's the last fucking stand.
rithm: serp has struck again
rithm: and scooped the bitcoin world
BingoBoingo: !up bettycla1p
BingoBoingo: Hello bettycla1p
rithm: apparently circle has something called circle red, they've just emailed people, and the checkout allows bitcoin
rithm: also coinbase lists "square" as a customer
rithm: so you just got scooped
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21530 @ 0.00033358 = 7.182 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: Happens, dunno how much news square can be though. Aren't they the derpy tablet dongle company?
mircea_popescu: http://www.playboy.com/articles/playboy-interview-richard-dawkins << this is the worst indictment of dawkins that could ever be devised, incidentally.
assbot: PLAYBOY INTERVIEW: RICHARD DAWKINS | Playboy ... ( http://bit.ly/1rOpuSa )
rithm: something like that
mircea_popescu: dude completely misses the points of theology.
mircea_popescu: prolly should stick to familiar terrain.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61195 @ 0.00033254 = 20.3498 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2006 @ 0.00115549 = 2.3179 BTC [-] {14}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34700 @ 0.00034428 = 11.9465 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1399 @ 0.00115 = 1.6089 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84700 @ 0.00033097 = 28.0332 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1105 @ 0.00115 = 1.2708 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20942 @ 0.00035277 = 7.3877 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "In investigating these claims, BitBeat viewed a bitcoin address at Blockchain.info that was cryptographically proven to belong to GAW and in which almost 28,000 bitcoins"
mircea_popescu: lol im sure it was.
BingoBoingo: Well, note that they express reservation on the point where GAW never showed them any "virgin" coinbase transactions
mircea_popescu: it was "cryptographically proven" lol.
mircea_popescu: power words!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23536 @ 0.00033806 = 7.9566 BTC [-]
cazalla: "single Bitmain order to GAW worth 5 petahashes per second." <<< he twisted this as their latest order, it was their first because hey, gotta scam the funds first
cazalla: 28k bitcoin yet can't point out a single block they've mined
mircea_popescu: who's bitmain, the antminer ppl ?
mircea_popescu: 5ph = ~ 10k antiminers. they never made that many did they ?
rithm: lol at what cazalla said
rithm: generation address pretty easy to prove for a mining op
rithm: idk anything about it, I'm scamfree since 2012
rithm: new coin generation not something to be obscured though, that's for sure for a mining op, huge red flag
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I dunno much other than they seem to ship something.
rithm: but iff all they have is a bunch of miners that doesn't imply new coin generation or a pool
rithm: just means they have a lot of miners mining away
rithm: obv you'd want to run your own block source and clustered hashing for failover purposes
rithm: or new coin generation
assbot: UN Report Criticises United States on Human Rights | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1rPQ7k5 )
BingoBoingo: Compare and contrast to the Miami Herlad version being passed around http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/guantanamo/article4198431.html
assbot: U.N. panel raps U.S. record on torture, cites Guantánamo | The Miami Herald ... ( http://bit.ly/1rPQVWi )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58200 @ 0.00034106 = 19.8497 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: ;;seen diana_coman
gribble: diana_coman was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 7 weeks, 5 days, 6 hours, 54 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <diana_coman> I'm to blame for Sweete__ being here, since he pm-ed me about trading and I asked him why wasn't he in here if he was a trader
jurov: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021745 B (Total: 475.53 B). Delta: 0.52 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000195 BTC [-]
jurov: !t m f.mpif
assbot: [MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000195 / 0.000195 / 0.000195 (4601 shares, 0.90 BTC)
assbot: Primus - Wynona's Big Brown Beaver - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSVauo )
nubbins`: so apparently the paper that we're using for the book covers is being discontinued
nubbins`: if any of you live in major metropolitan centres in north america and want something in return for your time, pm me
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52741 @ 0.00033646 = 17.7452 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo omfg check this out, pravda lying about what the un said.
mircea_popescu: why history repeats itself so much! boring history! bad history!
mircea_popescu: lol nubsy has a trade network.
nubbins`: no kidding hey
assbot: Bitcoin Blackmailer Given Four Year Jail Sentence | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSXqBI )
nubbins`: boston, seattle, annapolis on the hunt already ;p
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, it's why we needed a qntra to serve as the billboard next to the city's gates. Gotta put indictments somewhere.
assbot: USA: Hunters Find Bullets from American Civil War in 185-Year Old Alligator’s Hide ... ( http://bit.ly/1HSXRfy )
mircea_popescu: which side ?
BingoBoingo: They are guessing confederate
BingoBoingo: But... can only trust the pravda so much. Prolly from when Obama's great grandfather was sent on a secret mission to assasinate the great reptillian
mircea_popescu: "DAWKINS: No, never. But suppose an intermediate species hadn’t gone extinct. Suppose relict populations are discovered in the African jungle. In order to deny chimpanzees rights, you would have to set up apartheid-like courts to decide whether this individual counts as human. Because it’s a continuum. As a practical matter, the intermediates haven’t survived, so it’s possible to give humans basic rights and gi
mircea_popescu: ve chimpanzees none. But I think it’s a worthwhile argument."
mircea_popescu: it's a worhtwhile argument that the only reason blacks aren't chimps is that some middle links died off ?!
mircea_popescu: dude this playboy interview is one of the stupidest things i ever read.
mircea_popescu: i had a much better impression on dawkins
BingoBoingo: Everyone gets a dissapoint today!
gernika: Anyone who has travelled to Buenos Aires have some recommendations for getting pesos once there? I assume the airport kiosks are total ripoff.
mircea_popescu: !up UltimateNate
mircea_popescu: gernika florida.
mircea_popescu: should get 12-13 per dollar.
danielpbarron: how convenient, the intermediate species don't exist... but the Bible is still wrong because science!
gernika: mircea_popescu: Calle Florida. Got it. Thanks.
undata: danielpbarron: the bible can be wrong all on its own, though science can help
undata: As far as *why* there aren't intermediate species left, there are plenty of possible answers. One of them might be that early human populations were into cracking competing skulls
jurov: where's notary?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5963 @ 0.00033484 = 1.9967 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ya srsly
mircea_popescu: punkman ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28050 @ 0.00033034 = 9.266 BTC [-]
gernika: danielpbarron: What are the criteria for something to be an intermediate species? How long does something have to have been around and how large does the population have to be for it to be classified as such? Seems like for populations that were at no time higher than the hundreds of thousands it would be very unlikely to expect to find fossils. Google tells me the peak population of neanderthals
gernika: was 70,000.
BingoBoingo: Neanderthals died for their socialism
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33250 @ 0.00032897 = 10.9383 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: it's nto as simple as a headcount.
mircea_popescu: every single snail leaves a fossil. few cephalopodes do. etc.
assbot: Coin Fire Response to GAW Miners C&D : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1HT2QN4 )
BingoBoingo: One step forward, two steps back with these coinfire people.
undata: danielpbarron: you just wanted to shout "bible is right!" eh?
undata: strange, I didn't expect to see that around here
mats_cd03: wow, scribd is even worse than before
assbot: Outside in - Involvements with reality » Blog Archive » Chaos Patch (#38) ... ( http://bit.ly/1HT47Uk )
assbot: Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HT47Up )
mircea_popescu: and so i tried to read that thing with the eyes of a stranger
mircea_popescu: holy hell i have no idea what i'm even saying.
mircea_popescu: decimation A more interesting question is: how does 'black music' go from Louis Armstrong to thug rap in 50 years?
mircea_popescu: mircea popescu The white hierarchy supporting society collapsed ? How does the French underground go from rengaine to "Irreversible" ? WW2. Most of the better Frenchmen got shot.
mircea_popescu: holy shit how could that make any sense to anyone other than me ?
mircea_popescu: i specifically meant rengaine as a reference to "Quand je m'endors bercée par une rengaine j'suis soudain réveillée par des cris"
mircea_popescu: which is part of dans ma rue, this thing : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUByZb1CkXM
assbot: Edith PIAF Dans ma rue - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HT4m1Q )
mircea_popescu: a song about forced prostitution and hunger in earlier france.
mircea_popescu: now who the fuck could hav efigured that out. i gotta make more footnotes.
mircea_popescu: undata yes, danielpbarron is a biblical literalist.
mircea_popescu: and irreversible is of course that atrocious production with the 10 minute bellucci rape scene.
mircea_popescu: (who, incidentally, only does movies if she's raped in them, for some reason. perhaps with the exception of that one where she kills herself at dinner with her ex.)
gernika: mircea_popescu: I find that if I follow your hints, I can understand more of each of your posts. 1. Research all references not understood. 2. Read multiple times. 3. Get better at reading by learning what words actually mean (that is, learning the etymology of each).
mircea_popescu: gernika i had a slavegirl apply this process to a few pages of shaw. took her A YEAR
mircea_popescu: course, it did markedly improve pretty much any language-related cognitive function in the process.
mircea_popescu: but still. takes a while.
gernika: That seems reasonable. I believe I'm looking at 5 to 10 years of work.
mircea_popescu: sounds like a fucking degree.
hanbot: mircea_popescu she wasn't raped in coppola's dracula, ftr.
gernika: Well, first I have to learn Greek. Then Latin.
mircea_popescu: hanbot well... you are aware vampirism is a rape metaphor yes ?
mircea_popescu: "Why are you locking up these important notices in a PDF turd hosted on a site with Facebook integration." BingoBoingo because they seek external validation, and they believe inaccessibility and hermetism are a good proxy. like all ignoramuses ever do believe.
hanbot: in that case, i suppose she rapes a baby.
mircea_popescu: this is a cognate of the guy who bought glasses to read. because that's what he was missing.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1000 @ 0.0011501 = 1.1501 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: hanbot which is this one anyway ? the 90s thing with ryder ?
hanbot: mhm
mircea_popescu: o yeah she was one of the brides huh
mircea_popescu: the one with the nice tits.
hanbot: mircea_popescu you oughta do billings for films
mircea_popescu: it's one of the skills i reserve for the scavenger world to come.
mircea_popescu: i will be this codgery old guy with an ellaborate cough, an old german trenchcoat, aviator eye goggles and a sorta-functioning projector
mircea_popescu: doing hand drawn posters for re-runs of old films.
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2TEXDFF.txt )
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's incredible how much bellucci looks like an italian matron as she ages.
mircea_popescu: spitting fucking image, she could have sucked cock off via flaminia sixteen centuries ago, only her hair'd be different.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> the one with the nice tits. << indeed.
mircea_popescu: how did that go, "if your nipples don't float halfway between your chin and your belly button, your tits ain't big enough"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34800 @ 0.00033373 = 11.6138 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: undata, danielpbarron: things on the manifold of reality find trajectories of stability away from each other because niche specialization
undata: ben_vulpes: well said; I have my doubts as to whether this particular one is stable
gernika: Reading at a higher level seems akin to using higher level programming languages. The ability to pack more information into fewer lexical units is powerful. Just realized this.
nubbins`: dat jargon
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, species exist for the same exact reason and through apparently the same mechanism subatomic particles "exist"
mircea_popescu: ie, as training wheels on a function wave.
assbot: MoneyBeat, A WSJ Blog, Confirms GAW Miners Is A Ponzi | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1zaVcId )
mircea_popescu: cazalla can easily be read as "one order was this much".
cazalla: easy for him to confirm the rest or for bitmain to do so if they respond to my email
cazalla: anyway, his timeline is still fucked up, bitmain didn't even ship scrpt miners back in october nor can you mine scypt coins with sha256 asics despite him claiming otherwise
cazalla: only a scammer would mix the 2 up
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62100 @ 0.0003286 = 20.4061 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: that's a point.
mircea_popescu: "Josh Garza – What we can talk about is everybody, so, we quite literally use every major manufacturer in the world, so, bitmain, we're actually in discussions right now with bitfury, *inaudible*, I mean, every single company. We are in the process of beginning to build our own chip, we do have hardware that is not publicly available that created economies of scale for us, kinda all over the place, probably a less gl
mircea_popescu: amorous answer than you were looking for but we actually are putting the finishing touches on one of our biggest data centres yet in the next couple of weeks, I actually spoke to someone a few days ago who saw it and he's never seen that many miners and flash computers in one place."
adlai: flash... computers?
adlai: ... computers with flashplayer installed?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: training wheels on a function wave?
decimation: maybe they hacked those chinese flash cards with onboard microcontrollers for write leveling/usb to compute
decimation: re: regressive tax < pete_dushenski made me aware that Russia actually has a regressive tax, probably for the same reason you think it is a good idea - the rich are more likely to pay
undata: decimation: 13%, the communists!
decimation: yeah, plus that highly regressive 'social security' tax
decimation: and vat
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54850 @ 0.00033481 = 18.3643 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: ;;seen jurov
gribble: jurov was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 hours and 51 seconds ago: <jurov> where's notary?
decimation: !up archLinuxUser
thestringpuller: ;;later tell jurov withdrawals
gribble: The operation succeeded.
undata: decimation: woah, 28% on the lowest tier of UST?
decimation: yeah, but there's a cap
undata: so it seems "half" is the usual amount of taxation wherever you are
undata: it just comes with different names
decimation: no, the 28% only applies to the first $16k of income
decimation: although it appears that there are other taxes depending on which region one resides
ben_vulpes: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 375.91, Best ask: 376.95, Bid-ask spread: 1.04000, Last trade: 376.98, 24 hour volume: 7114.68684683, 24 hour low: 373.03, 24 hour high: 382.31, 24 hour vwap: 378.26456952
decimation: !up xinxiwang
xinxiwang: thanks
decimation: np. I take it that you hail from singapore?
assbot: MasterCard's Submission To Economics References Committee Now Available | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1v84HDK )
cazalla: pretty lulzy
xinxiwang: right. I am from SG.
decimation: xinxiwang: I've always wanted to ask a singaporean what he thought about politics in the us compared to politics in sg
ben_vulpes: "Currently, digital currencies lack the basic protections consumers have come to expect when transacting online. For example, contrary to a consumer's experience when paying wit a MasterCard product, if a consumer uses digital currency to make a purchase on line and the merchant fails to deliver the goods, the consumer has no recourse through the digital currency's network." << oh lordy
asciilifeform: so here's a poor man's mega-lol. i buy two 'eizo' sx2462w monsters. both show up, were packed in new, m0d3rn expanding chemical foam. one - properly. other - with all the foam on one side of crate. naturally, frame cracked, 'bullet hole' of dead blue pixel on crystal.
xinxiwang: I study here actually.
xinxiwang: but I guess SG is a quiet place. US has a lot of news.
decimation: heh that's a subtle way of putting it
decimation: asciilifeform: RMA?
asciilifeform: thing is, these are $1.5k machines that sold together for 300. what, ask for refund for one?
asciilifeform: decimation: secondhand.
decimation: ah sucks
decimation: maybe eizo can repair
decimation: sounds like you got a good deal in any case
asciilifeform: decimation: LOL
decimation: yeah by 'repair' I mean 'replace important bits'
decimation: mainly the whole screen
asciilifeform: decimation: for cost of a new crystal - sure.
decimation: maybe for you, today, they sell for $1.4k
asciilifeform: 1.5 - epsilon.
asciilifeform: just thinking about the imbecile who packed.
asciilifeform: it wasn't the vendor.
decimation: did you buy from ebay or something
asciilifeform: but instead, a monkey, not answerable for his actions
asciilifeform: ebay where else.
asciilifeform: only reason i even bother to bring this headache up here in #b-a is that it presents an interesting case
decimation: I went to a ebay 'junk dealer' once. The owner knew his electronics, but he employed a bunch of monkeys to pack, ship, and do clerical work
asciilifeform: it was a unicorn, and the usual shipper-insurance/vendor-guarantee combo does not really work on unicorns.
asciilifeform: nor a third unicorn.
BingoBoingo: You could ask for a portion of the monkey?
decimation: still, it sounds like you got a good deal
decimation: heh a 'pound of flesh'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and do what with it? smoke it ?
asciilifeform: decimation: all the pleasure of good deal, ruined by getting shafted in a newly discovered (personally) way
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Mount in lucite, use as paperweight
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i already own a 200 pound paperweight (lisp machine) - don't need a 30
BingoBoingo: 30 is easier to toss at monkeys than 200
BingoBoingo: I was thinking more like a pinky finger cased in lucite, the chunk of flesh, not the monitor
asciilifeform: lol, i've quite the collection of freshly minted 'paperweights' here (all the retiring non-eizo panels)
asciilifeform: eizo, opium of the eye
asciilifeform: once yer hooked - yer hooked.
asciilifeform: consumer crystals look like shit afterwards.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: them.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the gizmos in question were 'sx2462w'.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've only just started to appreciate it
ben_vulpes: dunno how i hit enter there...
kakobrekla: this will get a bit spammy, but i want to have it in the log, so lets just get it over with.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've only just now started appreciating good wines, i don't care to get into "good" monitors too.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: l0l!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's every bit as evil as you think. esp. given as (i, at least) 'drink' considerably more display than wine.
assbot: f9beb4d9 #1: SUCCESS (stable); No comment.
assbot: f9beb4d9 #2: SUCCESS (stable); No comment.
assbot: f9beb4d9 #3: FAILURE (broken since this build); No comment.
assbot: f9beb4d9 #4: FAILURE (broken since build #3); Comment: result of applying the chicken patch
assbot: f9beb4d9 #5: FAILURE (broken since build #3); Comment: initial commit: asciilifeform's manifest and rm's manifest and 'chicken' patch
assbot: f9beb4d9 #6: FAILURE (broken since build #3); No comment.
assbot: f9beb4d9 #7: FAILURE (broken since build #3); No comment.
assbot: f9beb4d9 #8: FAILURE (broken since build #3); No comment.
assbot: f9beb4d9 #9: SUCCESS (back to normal); No comment.
assbot: f9beb4d9 #10: SUCCESS (stable); Comment: empty folders are required for build to pass
assbot: f9beb4d9 #11: SUCCESS (stable); No comment.
assbot: f9beb4d9 #12: SUCCESS (stable); Comment: ben vulpes' rm_rf_upnp patch
assbot: f9beb4d9 #13: SUCCESS (stable); Comment: asciilifeform's https-snipsnip patch
assbot: f9beb4d9 #14: SUCCESS (stable); No comment.
assbot: f9beb4d9 #15: SUCCESS (stable); No comment.
assbot: f9beb4d9 #16: SUCCESS (stable); Comment: asciilifeform's turdmeister-alert-snip patch
assbot: f9beb4d9 #17: SUCCESS (stable); Comment: asciilifeform's goodbye-win-32 patch
kakobrekla: everyone survived?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: neato
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i take it turdatron functions to spec now?
mike_c: assbot plz send donation to b-a donation address.
kakobrekla: ask ben_vulpes about the feed
asciilifeform: or is there a new site
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $250 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1078/ Odds: 19(Y):81(N) by coin, 19(Y):81(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.216 BTC. Current weight: 95,586.
kakobrekla: he made a jenkins setup but url is private as server is not ddos ready, so ask him.
asciilifeform: the beauty of the everything-pgp-signed concept is that this thing ought to be deadly-easy to mirror.
asciilifeform: ideally should come with a script that establishes that a copy is 100% canonical.
asciilifeform: (given public keys of the players)
decimation: cazalla: I want more winklevoss coverage!
cazalla: decimation, they're pretty quiet
decimation: yeah, it seems they are already derped by much of of the 'tardstream' media anyway
decimation: few actual important details have been released, like "where they are gonna buy bitcoin" and "how they gonna index btc price"
decimation: !up xinxiwang
decimation: asciilifeform: one thing that annoys me about most distro crypto-discipline is that they pretend that only the 'maintainers' could sign
decimation: why should I trust some derp who 'volunteers' for arch over the upstream creator?
asciilifeform: decimation: aha, the 'anonymous monkeys submit, poettering signs' model
decimation: exactly
decimation: which is nearly universal as far as I can tell
decimation: and note that "Maintenance" nearly always consists of adding some derpy package turd
decimation: !up Dr-G
undata: I don't see how you solve that problem without having all source packages grabbed directly from creators with signatures verified, and compiling yourself
undata: binary package systems would be difficult
decimation: undata: true, but how else does one 'convey' trust?
undata: decimation: yep, I think it's necessary
undata: portage will save us all
decimation: Dr-G: are you connected via tor and then sasl, or end-to-end sasl to freenode?
decimation: well, gentoo is pretty close to having 'unpackages'
undata: decimation: how are you defining unpackages?
decimation: 'make install' the turd as it comes without modification
undata: ah yeah
decimation: one of the main problems that linux packaging aims to solve is exactly the issue ascii rants about, that is - lack of a global namespace for code
undata: it'd be neat to publish the hash of a given release of a package into the blockchain
decimation: could be done with a 'deed'
undata: that'd be miles better than just trusting what ended up in the ebuild
undata: there's always the hard problem of bootstrapping your build tools in a secure way
undata: then of course the whole thing is moot on broken hardware
decimation: heh yeah
decimation: as ascii says, we don't even have computers yet
BingoBoingo: !up xinxiwang
asciilifeform plugged in the two 'eizo' panels spoken of earlier, can actually -feel- the heat now
kakobrekla: yes it can be felt here on 5x27" as well but no tan :\
decimation: asciilifeform: price you pay for quality crystal - lots of light
decimation: probably affecting your ability to produce melatonin at night
asciilifeform: decimation: and aha, these aren't piss-ant led lights either. ccfl tubes - which means they can't be cranked down all the much (and stay lit)
decimation: yeah designed for max life at max performance
asciilifeform: melatonin at night: for what it's worth, i usually tune the gamma to be heavy on the red
mike_c: v2 of the bitbet analyzer is so cool i almost want to keep it to myself. i'd win all the bitcoins.
decimation: probably with sophisticated diffusers
decimation: mike_c: are you saying that luck ain't got nothing to do with it?
mike_c: not for long.
decimation: this mastercard in australia thing is lulzy
decimation: as far as I know few/no american tardstream media is covering
decimation: it's obviously an idea balloon that they are going to try to use to kill bitcoin dead everywhere
mike_c: my credit card company sent me a new card recently for my safety.
asciilifeform: wai wat
asciilifeform: australia mastercard ?
mike_c: now i'm lost
assbot: MasterCard's Submission To Economics References Committee Now Available | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1A9OBOW )
PeterL: !up patate
cazalla: decimation was pretty clear imo
decimation: mike_c: did it have a secret number on the front that you were only to share with pre-trusted individuals
patate: hello
decimation: I think this is common in the 'democratic' world - 'venue shopping'
mike_c: yes. and now i have to run around to all the individuals i trusted before and change it.
asciilifeform: mastercard << reads like yet another 'let's whip the hellespont.'
BingoBoingo: Hello patate
decimation: "but germany agreed to X"
mike_c: for "my" safety. except i'm not liable for fraud. so actually they are being a pain in my ass for their safety. fucking home depot.
PeterL: patate: what brings you to #bitcoin-assets?
decimation: when my credit card number kept getting stolen (before I was smart about website passwords), amex refused to change anything other than the last 4 digits when 're-issued'
patate: i love discover irc chats
mike_c: cazalla: "MasterCard is calling for such regulation regulation"
decimation: I called customer service and they said that it would be quite impossible to change the first set of numbers, because that's my account number
decimation: I wanted to burn
cazalla: mike_c, ty
mike_c: this has nothing to do with website shopping
mike_c: i bought some fucking lightbulbs at home depot
mike_c: credit cards are so bad it is mind-boggling.
decimation: yeah I think we discussed the dumbification of pos terminals in the past http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-09-2014#825488
assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 03:44:22; *: decimation remembers every pos and library using said terminals growing up, only to be replaced with buggy-ass windows for no reason
assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 03:44:31; *: asciilifeform also saw this
BingoBoingo: Wait, people actually go to Home Depot to buy stuff they'd want a record of buying?
asciilifeform: lol, BingoBoingo and his drain pipe howitzers
cazalla: and breaking bad plots
mike_c: hm? i don't mind people knowing i bought lightbulbs. it was only a couple.
BingoBoingo: Allegedly
decimation: mike_c: you know the thing that pisses me off the most? every retail store/credit card company conspires to record every bit of information about you that they can
mike_c: yes. i hate that too.
decimation: but as far as I know, there is no service the lets you download your own itemized receipts
decimation: like, you know, so you can share in the bounty of their information?
BingoBoingo: Still, do you really want some insurer or landlord knowing how much spackle you had to buy to patch the walls after the bacanals
mike_c: sorry, your shopping habits are their information, not yours.
mike_c: BingoBoingo: lol :) i use cash for the spackle.
asciilifeform: kgb didn't let you grab your own real time bug feeds either.
PeterL: there are document scanners which database-ize receipts
assbot: Logged on 17-11-2014 04:35:56; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they wish to steal not merely the farmer's cow, but to also steal the farmer's "having being stolen from" << usg (and the 'enlightenment') in one sentence.
asciilifeform: somebody is confused re: how surveillance works
mike_c: this is just marketing though. or at least, that's the primary use case.
asciilifeform: seeing exactly what the enemy sees (and doesn't see) is almost half as good as not being watched
decimation: asciilifeform: I don't even want to see what he sees of all people, just of me
asciilifeform: precisely that
decimation: like, at least the panopticon can be a good secretary?
decimation: but even *that* has been stolen too
cazalla: yall don't have a rewards card for every store?
decimation: cazalla: I use 'generic' rewards card
asciilifeform: 'Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it; moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plate commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceiv
asciilifeform: able that they watched everybody all the time. but at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You have to live - did live, from habit that became instinct - in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.'
kakobrekla: cazalla not a single one, but i get asked to join various regularly.
cazalla: kakobrekla, what? you don't have a rewards card? here is a form, please fill out
asciilifeform: every penny i spend is recorded. even at parking meters.
decimation: yeah it's almost impossible to use 'cash' in the us these days
asciilifeform: (my town recently installed cc readers even there.)
BingoBoingo rewatching Jurassic Park. I bet John Hammond wishes he would have bought Symbolics instead of *nix.
decimation: except - I recall when a massive snowstorm moved up the east coast and wiped out all the telco lines - suddenly everywhere was 'cash only'
asciilifeform: decimation: except that not everything is even equipped to take cash.
mike_c: that mastercard post on qntra is great. a good candidate for promotion (slashdot? reddit?)
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah exactly
cazalla: BingoBoingo, i know this, it's a unix system!
BingoBoingo: I've been reddit killed.
patate: i love potatoes
asciilifeform: for instance, where i live, paying with paper money at a filling station requires a human clerk to turn a crank
asciilifeform: hence, lengthy queue where otherwise none.
mike_c: <+BingoBoingo> I've been reddit killed. << just being in this channel seems to get a person banned from half the internet
decimation: asciilifeform: have you read herr Saltzer's end-to-end argument? http://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/endtoend/endtoend.pdf‎
assbot: MIT 404 Error - file not found ... ( http://bit.ly/1A9QLhB )
assbot: James Watson selling Nobel Prize: DNA structure discoverer’s history of racism and sexism. ... ( http://bit.ly/1A9QQSd )
asciilifeform: decimation: negative
decimation: asciilifeform: it captures some of the 'spirit' of stripping down bitcoind
decimation: Saltzer wrote multics, which is the ancestor of unix, more or less
asciilifeform: watson should publicly sink it into the mariana trench, or some other 'black hole'
asciilifeform: if gonna troll, do it right.
decimation: that's awesome. I agree, should toss into volcano
decimation: or better yet, send it to 1600 pennsylvania avenue
BingoBoingo: Dunno selling it to the Winkelvii would be pretty troll.
BingoBoingo: Or Mike Tyson
assbot: De-extinction ethics: Why extinct species shouldn’t be brought back. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CA9mrX )
asciilifeform: ^ idiot luddite hates (so far, theoretical) 'de-extinction' tech because...
asciilifeform: 'That’s because wiping out the passenger pigeon, the heath hen, the Tasmanian tiger, and so on, as regrettable as these events were, wasn’t the real mistake. It was only the indicator of a deeper moral and cultural malady.'
decimation: 'because man isn't natural'
asciilifeform: this is a deeper idiocy
patate: someone here speak french
BingoBoingo: Maybe?
decimation: pardon?
BingoBoingo proposes Giant Ground Sloth for resurection
asciilifeform: imbecile isn't even arguing that 'it could wreck existing xyz'
asciilifeform: but that 'removes moral dimension!'
cazalla: patate, voulez vous coucher avec moi ce soir?
decimation: asciilifeform: but even if you believe man is created by God (as I do) you would still have to believe that God failed to anticipate what man would do to nature, and/or man could somehow outsmart Him
patate: non
BingoBoingo: North America needs moar Mega fauna.
asciilifeform: reminds me of... 'The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet.' (Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation)
decimation: yeah the anti-nuke stuff is lulzy too
gernika: asciilifeform: I recently read Englebard's Violin and managed to get ahold of a Twiddler. Have you used it?
asciilifeform: gernika: nope
asciilifeform: gernika: on account of - not ergonomic.
asciilifeform: not hand shaped, no tactile spring switches - do not want.
decimation: there was a gentleman who bicycled across the country with a modded 1990's era computer bike - and he had a chorded keyboard
gernika: asciilifeform: the buttons definitely click when you press them, but that is not what you're talking about?
asciilifeform: can you hear then across a room?
asciilifeform: or do they 'click' like mouse.
gernika: asciilifeform: also yes it's not hand shaped, but also does n't require you to twist your hand and splay your fingers
gernika: asciilifeform: not like the old ibm keyboards that sort of ring when you click them no.
asciilifeform: ideal device would have rotary jointed finger slots.
decimation: asciilifeform: do you own one of Cy Enfield's widgets?
asciilifeform: and adjustable tension switches
asciilifeform: decimation: yes. the original 'microwriter.'
decimation: asciilifeform: do you imagine some kind of 'data glove'?
asciilifeform: not so fond of gloves.
asciilifeform: and the notion of moving fingers without any feedback springs is lunacy
cazalla: powerglove perhaps?
asciilifeform: see above
asciilifeform: !s gorilla arm
assbot: 3 results for 'gorilla arm' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gorilla+arm
decimation: yeah, one needs a 'glove with feedback'
gernika: asciilifeform: why are tactile spring switches more ergonomic? Do they prevent you from pressing with too much strength?
asciilifeform: they give an immediate, palpable 'stop moving now'
decimation: basically a robotic hand that gently attaches to your own?
asciilifeform: i seriously doubt that you can get spring feedback from anything other than an actual spring.
asciilifeform: and at this point i don't even care if i'm simply habituated to springs or if there is something 'intrinsic and natural' about spring clicks. i refuse to do without them.
PeterL: there are various forms of spring to pick from
asciilifeform: just like wearing clothing, or shitting in a toilet rather than in pants, are also 'mere' habits
asciilifeform: that one could, conceivably, experiment with forgoing
asciilifeform: not interested in such experiments.
decimation: asciilifeform: basically the same action as your model-m buckling springs?
asciilifeform: presently i'm not even using a 'model m', but a 'northgate'
asciilifeform: (switches by 'alps', long ago defunct)
asciilifeform: 'alps' used leaf springs
asciilifeform: not quite as pleasurable as ibm's buckling springs. but the 'northgate' does have the function keys in their properly ordained position.
asciilifeform: ibm made a buckling-spring keyboard which also had this, but it suffered from other deformities.
assbot: Northgate OmniKey 101 - Deskthority wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAbH6q )
gernika: asciilifeform: so is someone who can't get ahold of a microwriter basically just fucked?
asciilifeform: decimation: no.
PeterL: no control by 'z'?
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I like those extra function keys
decimation: wait, you don't get 22 function keys?
asciilifeform: gernika: 'microwriter' is not so great today. no easy means of getting it to throw output to a computer in real time.
asciilifeform: gernika: there's an rs232 jack but, iirc, it only pisses out a buffered text.
asciilifeform: gernika: i'll happily part with mine if someone wanted to buy it.
asciilifeform: PeterL: nah that's fixable
gernika: asciilifeform: ah I thought you'd figured out how to hook it up to whatever development machine you use
asciilifeform: PeterL: no 'esc', no status lights, abominable 'plus sign' arrow keys
asciilifeform: gernika: no, i did not actually use it in anger. for some reason i thought this was clear from the article.
asciilifeform: gernika: i expressed a wish that i had grown up with it, rather than qwerty keyboards.
PeterL: I can't quite see, what's in the middle of the arrow keys?
gernika: asciilifeform: sorry it's been about a month since I read it
decimation: 'zulu' was a great movie though
asciilifeform: PeterL: key with own code
asciilifeform: PeterL: that keyboard was intended for 'glass tty' terminals and cannot be used with a modern pc compat. machine without some custom electronics
asciilifeform: (speaking here of the giant 'model m')
kakobrekla: that is 'model f'
asciilifeform: i have one. it is presently gathering dust. no time to do what must be done to it
decimation: asciilifeform: I think sun made a keyboard with function keys on the left, but no buckling springs
asciilifeform: neh, model f was the pc xt keyboard iirtc
asciilifeform: decimation: sun's type 5. shit keys.
asciilifeform: membrane.
decimation: yeah but the layout was ok
asciilifeform: !s spreading works
assbot: 15 results for 'spreading works' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=spreading+works
kakobrekla: ah, the layout looks like f then
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2014 06:37:37; asciilifeform: soviet scientist declares, 'we've invented a shit-to-food converter.' 'does it work?' 'sorta. spreading on bread: worlks!!11! eating - not quite yet.'
decimation: lol I like the .link
decimation: asciilifeform: maybe they can keep a detached dog's head alive too!!!
asciilifeform: lol, that sorta worked.
kakobrekla: speaking of keyboards, if anyone has such, wtb: http://shrani.si/f/1U/zK/vTpHQ6z/4381kb.jpg
asciilifeform: for what was this one? s/360?
decimation: is that from a pcjr?
decimation: yeah, too old for pcjr
kakobrekla: for the IBM-3279?
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
decimation: ah that's a real 3270 term
kakobrekla: they do not seem identical but i think they are same, the keyboards
kakobrekla: same model
asciilifeform: kakobrekla has this ?
kakobrekla: kakobrekla wtb this
kakobrekla: ofc noone sane will part it
gernika: asciilifeform: I find it interesting that you prefer the buckling springs over something like the Microsoft Natural Keyboard that doesn't require you flex your wrists sideways. That said, using the MS keyboard ultimately has not prevented me from having issues. I must try a springy keyboard.
decimation: I've used both and I didn't think that the 'natural keyboards' were all that more comfortable
asciilifeform: i find them a misery.
asciilifeform: and that's not even considering the castrated space bar (to fit the worthless winblows keys)
gernika: What aggravates me more and more recently is the claim that mac products are well designed, when in fact they will destroy your hands.
gernika: both the keyboards and the "magic" trackpad
decimation: yeah mac keyboard is shit
asciilifeform: worthy of a 'dollar store' calculator.
decimation: I find the trackpad annoying too, not sure why people prefer
PeterL: I'm suprised you don't reprogram the winblows key to be an extra control to give yourself another batch of functions at your fingertips?
asciilifeform: PeterL: i might do so, if any keyboard having it were worth using in the first place
asciilifeform: but i have yet to find a keyboard made post-1995 or so that was worth having
decimation: I use the model-m knockoff for my mac: http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/SpacesaverM
assbot: Unicomp, Inc.: Spacesaver M / Mac OS X ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAeCfi )
asciilifeform: decimation: funny that you mention this, a colleague of mine is throwing his out just now.
decimation: asciilifeform: why?
asciilifeform: spring - gave out. buzzing repeats.
asciilifeform: knockoff is a turd.
decimation: heh. mine has an issue where the function key 'negates' suddenly
decimation: always-on instead of always-off
asciilifeform: real 'model m' goes 30+ years without any malfunction of any detectable kind whatsoever.
decimation: I have to plug/replug usb to 'fix'
asciilifeform: or any maintenance.
asciilifeform: usb lol
asciilifeform: i don't even allow usb keyboards on my personal machines.
decimation: yeah, whatever chinese intern wrote the keyboard driver firmware was an idiot
asciilifeform: i meant, in kernel
kakobrekla: i have a bolt moded (ssk) and non bolt moded board and difference is huge
decimation: asciilifeform: don't you trust usb security?
asciilifeform: don't want multi-keyboard support.
asciilifeform: no good comes of it
asciilifeform: somebody wake up diametric
asciilifeform: i recall he bought, not long ago, a 'bolt modded' model m
assbot: IBM Model M clicky Keyboard, 1993, excellent condition, w/USB adapter ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAfi4e )
kakobrekla: and it fell apart?
asciilifeform: not afaik
asciilifeform: not yet, anyway
asciilifeform: gernika: that's a standard model m from the photo, yes
decimation: gernika: the early 90's model m's were made by lexmark, somewhat shoddier
kakobrekla: if someone wants to drool http://webwit.nl/input/
assbot: Index of /input ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAfznO )
mike_c: kakobrekla: you wtb the keyboard or the whole terminal?
kakobrekla: keyboard
mike_c: i've got a friend who collects old crap like that, i'll ping him. he might know the right people to ask.
kakobrekla: cool, doesnt hurt to ask :)
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