Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-11-12 | 2014-11-14 → ↓
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
nubbins`: one color left
mircea_popescu: just my type o gal.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah he discusses that in the other post: http://www.isegoria.net/2010/12/ideas-behind-their-time/
decimation: "By contrast, in Poul Anderson’s The Man Who Came Early, an American MP with an engineering degree finds that he can’t apply any of his high-tech knowledge in low-tech Viking Iceland. He destroys the blacksmith’s shop when he tries to use modern high-temperature methods, he suggests impractical ideas, like deep-keeled sailing ships, which you can’t pull ashore, and so on."
mircea_popescu: takes a whole of a lot more than "i cursorily looked through my textbook on sciences" to meaningfully impact the past.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or present.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, you need to be conversant in their ideas.
mircea_popescu: not different in any sense, but the past does offer the dubious benefit of unverifiability
mircea_popescu: which is exactly what all of dub's idiots masquerading as "human science" always pined for.
mircea_popescu: oh if only they could be spared the humiliation of failing in an irc chatroom, how great life'd be.
asciilifeform: the real psychiatric root here is that the idiots actually buy into the notion of the past being a 'kingdom of simpletons'
mircea_popescu: why wouldn't they ?
asciilifeform: a land of the blind, where the derp, with his magical enlightenment juice, is automagically one-eyed king.
mircea_popescu: they also buy into the theory of women, black people and so forth being a bunch of simpletons in need of special olympics
mircea_popescu: why not past people ?
mircea_popescu: and ukrainians ?
mircea_popescu: everyone's in dire need of democracy!
asciilifeform: the lie is implicit in the 'progress' idea
mircea_popescu: how great it is tho, just think! to be the best person that ever was merely for having been born later !
mircea_popescu: no wonder the conservative "you're not in the wot, noob" approach conflicts.
decimation: reminds one of "Candide"
decimation: Voltaire attacks Leibniz for thinking too optimistically about human possibility, and then supports the elevation of the unwashed masses
asciilifeform: mr v did for liberasty what leibniz did for mathematics.
mircea_popescu: i dun see it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.000566 = 11.9143 BTC [+]
decimation: mircea_popescu: as a student of french history, how do you think the revolution could have been reversed?
decimation: my limited understanding is that much blame falls on Louis for being a dufus
mircea_popescu: uh. i dunno, but i suspect the revolution was a historical necessity.
mircea_popescu: well yeah. and his successor a worse one.
decimation: I suppose it was the ultimate outworking of enlightenment philosophy
mircea_popescu: here's a reduced version of the problem : england had a shitty king, that led to the empowering of a a bizarre sect. this is what happens when monarchy falters - secret societies.
mircea_popescu: the weakness of the crown allowed the personal union of the dutch and england, which created a shipping superpower
mircea_popescu: this ensured the failure of france as a going concern, because it couldn't keep up with the new megastate.
mircea_popescu: once france was going to fail, louis settled into a comfortable "apres moi, le deluge" and the people felt right about the same way germans felt around hitler's bunker.
mircea_popescu: they WERE going to try something.
mircea_popescu: the thing they tried was in all ways french : lots of fun, and it nearly got to moscow.
mircea_popescu: what more do you want ?
assbot: Last 8 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/16N8SSA.txt )
decimation: I suppose that's the result of the mob seizing power: awesome party, terrible hangover
mircea_popescu: ;;google caragiale republica de la ploiesti
gribble: Republic of Ploiești - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ploie%C8%99ti>; Boborul - Wikisource: <http://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/Boborul>; Please take your pills. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2014/please-take-your-pills/>
cazalla: ;;isitdown qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is up
mircea_popescu: the guy that wrote the os romania still runs on, for almost two centuries now ? had a working model
cazalla: anyone else unable to access?
decimation: I cannot access
decimation: ;;isitdown trilema.com
gribble: trilema.com is up
mircea_popescu: i wonder how the heck this works.
decimation: is our ddosing friend at it again?
mircea_popescu: i dun see him
asciilifeform: 'Astolphe de Custine was brought up for a time by a faithful servant, living in penury with her in the only room of the Custine home that had not been looted and sealed off by Jacobin zealots and thieves.'
asciilifeform: quoted for just this. someone asked 'how could they undo french revolution.' how do you undo a catabolic collapse?
asciilifeform: can you unburn a sofa?
asciilifeform: where do we get unlooters, to unplunder a palace?
mircea_popescu: "Thanks to technological change, over the past few decades the capital-intensiveness of emerging successor infrastructures has been collapsing faster than the existing infrastructure itself. The classic example, from Buckminster Fuller, is replacing a transoceanic cable system emdodying God only knows how many thousand tons of metal with a few dozen communications satellites weighing a few tons each."
mircea_popescu: conveniently forgetting to mention that the cable is resilient, whereas the satellites not so much, and moreover,
mircea_popescu: even more conveniently forgetting to mention the 100x more tons of metal, fuel and whatnot needed to make satellites.
decimation: asciilifeform: I guess if the king isn't a derp, he turns grapeshot upon the mob
mircea_popescu: not like you can use any old mine dredger.,
mircea_popescu: decimation suppose you were king, and ordered the leningrad of paris. what then ?
decimation: right, the problem is that it's hopeless
mircea_popescu: so you get to still be king, people will refer to you as Roi Acier
mircea_popescu: and now ?
asciilifeform: king, as it was, sorta got off lightly - settled for mere beheading, no impalement, no boiling oil
decimation: I guess the simpler alternative is to take the mob and invade moscow with it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform king died in his bed
mircea_popescu: among the tits of his concubine.
asciilifeform thinking of other one
decimation: his wife on the other hand..
mircea_popescu: oh, the blacksmith ?
mircea_popescu: what king.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, unplunders there are. called craftsmen and artisans.
mircea_popescu: palaces can and have been unplundered.
asciilifeform: takes a while.
decimation: re: satellites << plus they occupy electromagnetic spectrum that could be put to otherwise productive use
asciilifeform: decimation: occupy spectrum << mostly line-of-sight, what occupy
decimation: true, not the entire earth all at once
asciilifeform: decimation: line of sight. what don't you like about the picture ?
decimation: well, the point isn't really the interfering signal from the satellite as much as the fact that no one on the ground can use the same frequencies without potentially interfering with satellite receivers
asciilifeform: decimation: if this were true, anyone could take a 'predator' bomber home.
asciilifeform: pocket 'gps' receivers - yes, easily fooled
decimation: asciilifeform: who knows how the us military hardens their links against interference
asciilifeform: generally, by using a very directional horn.
asciilifeform: and by flying.
decimation: but I am assuming a world where e-m spectrum could be otherwise be allocated to other-than-friends-of-the-bezzle
asciilifeform: in post-bezzle radio, 'adaptive frequency hopping' or bust.
asciilifeform: (one of the things which they did not - until, apparently, very recently - do - is use signed commands. hence one could in fact take the machine home, if using an appropriate antenna.)
decimation: asciilifeform: here's another one: http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/uavs-drive-satcom-modernization/ "The reality, however, is the role of the lion’s share of UAVs is to provide data to soldiers within 50 miles of the aircraft using line-of-sight air-to-ground links,” Gardner wrote. “Today these links are predominantly analog FM links for standard definition video, but a change to sophisticated digital links is under
decimation: way, driven by a range of factors.""
asciilifeform: way to lump the bulldog and the rhinoceros into one animal.
asciilifeform: flying camera - one thing. remotely-flown bomber - another.
asciilifeform: incidentally, people misunderstand why the bomber is costly
asciilifeform: it is precisely because of the control apparatus.
asciilifeform: rather than the bombs
asciilifeform: hence also its weight, and the resulting expense of the airframe, engines, fuel.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I was confusing the two, I admit
decimation: the article is fairly silent w.r.t. the details of control links
asciilifeform: if a usefully-directional satellite receiver and associated gizmos could fit in pocket, camel convoys would be attacked using winged grenades on toy airplanes
asciilifeform: and even the simultaneously dumbest and wealthiest military bureaucracy in the world, would see this as an obvious thing.
decimation: this article was published in 2010 also
mircea_popescu: dude look at that, you can't find a pic of John McCain online that's not from like 1979
asciilifeform: !s gyro mcquack
asciilifeform: !s launchpad mcquack
decimation: ;;google uss forrestal mccain
gribble: 1967 USS Forrestal fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire>; Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea - Truthdig: <http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20081007_investigating_john_mccains_tragedy_at_sea>; Rocket causes deadly fire on aircraft carrier — History.com This Day ...: <http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: Ah, the references to Disney
BingoBoingo: 's Duck Period date Herr asciilifeform's arrival in Usia
asciilifeform: pre-date
asciilifeform: saw it in translation.
BingoBoingo: So marginally more directional than a satellite TV reciever.
decimation: asciilifeform: sure, the plane's dish is directional - my original point is that the satellite's might not be
decimation: especially if it is a 'commercial' satellite
assbot: Dr. Google & Moose by-products | Ambleside Animal Hospital
mats_cd03: good log today mates
asciilifeform: !up Vexual
Vexual: i forgot, everythings on lyngsat
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8737 @ 0.00056765 = 4.9596 BTC [+]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 450.0, vol: 46736.22148626 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 447.14, vol: 28104.18399 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 457.29, vol: 132122.08627802 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 476.579904, vol: 454541.40410000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 435.18045, vol: 230.55639073 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 435.575, vol: 362.97455385 | Volume-weighted last average: 469.567824543
BingoBoingo: The Chinese... enthusiastic
mircea_popescu: o noes, such wow, what now.
BingoBoingo: Well, new meme clogging Derpistan seems to be "Forget the moon, we caught a comet"
Vexual: also gentlemen, which seens to be some olf cat picture from bitcointalk by way of reddit
assbot: Ask.fm laid bare, or what’s half a million uniques to you ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: since no scoopsybot.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 10000 @ 0.0012 = 12 BTC
Vexual: orb reports it's stright outta london
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48130 @ 0.00056205 = 27.0515 BTC [-]
Vexual: dat meme, not ask fm
BingoBoingo: ;;google straight out of compton
gribble: Straight Outta Compton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_Outta_Compton>; Straight Outta Compton (2015) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1398426/>; NWA - Straight Outta Compton (1988) on Vimeo: <http://vimeo.com/68396301>
Vexual: ;;google straight outta locash
gribble: CB4-Straight outta Locash - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbzQRft7zGA>; CB4 (1993) Straight Outta Locash - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69JBRcDOt-k>; CB4 Straight Outta Locash (Video Edit) by Bob Garcia - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quDlXLXmX2M>
BingoBoingo: Vexual: When are you starting a blog that blogs other blogs rinsed through MP's Google Translate Vexualator?
Vexual: tsin da werks
mircea_popescu: not a bnad idea, that.
Vexual: lol
assbot: How prepaid cards work and why Feds are watching : News
mircea_popescu: !up bitcoin-market09
mircea_popescu: easily the best looking chick alive.
assbot: Thomaston Man Arrested After Stabbing Watermelon: Cops | NBC Connecticut
Vexual: theres a song about who fucker her first
mircea_popescu: to think, not even 200 years ago the same woman could be put in stocks if the husband told police she stabbed the same watermelon in a slothful or wanton manner.
punkman: "Glee actress Naya Rivera allegedly commented on Kardashian’s Instagram, “I normally don’t… but you’re someone’s mother.”"
punkman: I think she looks better now than before she had a kid
mircea_popescu: she looks her best for sure.
mircea_popescu: armenian chicks. no fucking wonder the turks had an in for 'em.
BingoBoingo: Sabines 2.0
punkman: same photographer
mircea_popescu: anyway, she's doing all the stuff jolie thought herself too good for.
mircea_popescu: in a decade, kim will be remembered and who was brangelina again ?
mircea_popescu: i hadn't. but the original sucks by comparison.
mircea_popescu: how does he get the bubbly flow btw ? what's the hydrodynamics experts think ?
punkman: trying to imagine how many bottles of champagne he's wasted trying
mircea_popescu: no way that's a chance event.
punkman: yeah photographer guy probably has it figured out by now
mircea_popescu: besides, im sure you can sell "champagne that was spilled on kim kardashian as part of trying to get the booty shot" fgor more trhan it cost originally.
mircea_popescu: As of May 2014, Kardashian is estimated to be worth $45 million.
mircea_popescu: dude that sucks. the watsapp faggots are worth 20bn and this chick 40mn ? get outta town.
punkman: does she have a clothing label yet?
punkman: though ass champagne might be a good business
mircea_popescu: she has 500 shitty perfumes, diets, underwears the works
mircea_popescu: they should prolly get her to front paleo
mircea_popescu: i think she's exactly the sort of woman the paleo guy jacks off to.
assbot: Why Is Beijing Downplaying the Supposedly Huge Climate Change Deal?
mircea_popescu: chinese bureaucrats got dumped a spoiled western brat.
mircea_popescu: they were polite, and thankfully now he left.
assbot: Putin Hits on China's First Lady, Censors Go Wild
mircea_popescu: lol nowai
mircea_popescu: well she looks like she's enjoying it...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14017 @ 0.00056029 = 7.8536 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: ;;isup qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is up
davout: ;;seen pankkake
gribble: pankkake was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 weeks, 3 days, 20 hours, and 11 seconds ago: <pankkake> here is 0.000195.
thestringpuller: wassup davout
davout: right now, mostly being hungry
davout: :-)
davout: wishing i wasn't in paris' blind spot, where the closest boulangerie is 15 minutes walk
thestringpuller: lol. the chick fil a on campus is the slowest one in the state. about 15 minutes being in line ;)
assbot: You could flash-fry a buffalo in 40 seconds - YouTube
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00055772 = 13.9988 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00055 = 5.5 BTC [-]
assbot: How Alibaba is using bra sizes to predict online shopping habits – Quartz
punkman: "Earlier this summer, a group of data crunchers looking at underwear sales at Alibaba came across a curious trend: women who bought larger bra sizes also tended to spend more"
punkman: big tits, more money
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00036402 = 1.3833 BTC [-]
nubbins`: this ad
nubbins`: elelel
thestringpuller: nubbins`: i like the one where the baby is buying encyclopedias on the ipad and it triggers all these events.
nubbins`: i like the one where i ordered light bulbs ten weeks ago and they're finally in
nubbins`: bbl driving to industrial zone
Adlai: i don't know whether to be pumped at the rally while i was gone or fucking pissed that scalpl crashed right before it began
Adlai: mostly FUCKING PISSED
thestringpuller: nubbins`: ten weeeks for light bulbs?
thestringpuller: !ticker m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00036402 / 0.00061882 / 0.00064749 (1568022 shares, 970.33 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.00062305 / 0.0007299 (5073500 shares, 3,161.05 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00072108 / 0.00081111 (22420918 shares, 16,167.33 BTC)
nubbins`: what's scalpl
nubbins`: thestringpuller RIGHT?!
Adlai: nubbins`: my thingy
Adlai: !s scalpl
Adlai: crashed in between a sell and a buy, so i sat through this rally in fiat >_<
nubbins`: asciilifeform as i do not wish to hold your book funds indefinitely, plz to provide return address
jurov: hi Adlai, you wanted to post a patch to btc-dev?
Adlai: yes
jurov: can you resend?
Adlai: sent
Adlai: ugh and the fucking post office closes at ungodly early hours
jurov: gpg: BAD signature from "Adlai Chandrasekhar <adlai.chandrasekhar@gmail.com>"..iirc i sent you some instructions what to fix, did you get anything form gribble?
Adlai: let me check my logs
Adlai: (nothing from gribble though, but i did have a highlight that overflowed scrollback)
jurov: can't find it, seems my memory fails me, sry
Adlai: oh, it's failing because of newline failness
Adlai: you'd think that in the twenty first century...
jurov: yes, pls resend the text as attachment and leave the body empty
Adlai: please explain this as though i am a retarted monkey
Adlai: plain text attachment? any specific filename/extension/encoding/etc?
jurov: i guess everyone will utterly hate this :(
Adlai: "will"
jurov: o, already does ? D:
Adlai: !up devthedev
jurov: you're welcome to send the patch itself, as described there, too
Adlai: there's no patch, just an announcement about the github repo
Adlai: sending patches by mail is so 90s
jurov: but that's buggy, too. yest it ate newline in the patch file and then proclaimed "sig invalid, wont publish"
Adlai: anyways i must shower immediately before i die of stench
jurov: and made our key contributor, asciilifeform, utterl annoyed :(
assbot: Logged on 09-11-2014 09:54:46; Adlai: ben_vulpes: i'm not seeing it in the mailing list yet, and i have to leave. hope this cuts it: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pCFcsbrW
jurov: your key is there, gpgp knows your name, but message was damamged in transit
jurov: kbd fail
jurov: hmmm, i can maybe provide web submission form that will have better chance to pass gpg stuff undamaged and can provide instant feedback
mircea_popescu: jurov web form is a good idea i'd say.
jurov: but when i come around to do it.. dunno :(
mircea_popescu: all it takes is five lines of html
jurov: lol
jurov: if you meant a form with action="mailto:btc-dev@..." that wouldn't help anything
mircea_popescu: lol well no
mircea_popescu: but presumably the email goes into a script somewhere no ?
jurov: yes, it needs to be wired yo that script
mircea_popescu: whoa look at that, under 50!
mircea_popescu: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00036402 / 0.00061882 / 0.00064749 (1568022 shares, 970.33 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.00062249 / 0.0007299 (5046550 shares, 3,141.44 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00072098 / 0.00081111 (22294004 shares, 16,073.74 BTC)
jurov: and mailman expects some headers to be present such as date, message id and whatnot
mircea_popescu: $SERVER or w/e php used
jurov: lol it's in py
jurov: and if it would be 5 lines, someone'd already done it
nubbins`: punkman let's put a section on the deeds website for deed verification utils
nubbins`: get a standard figured out and implement it in a few different languages
mircea_popescu: this is also not a bad idea
punkman is furiously trying to undelete output of 12hour processing job
Adlai: mircea_popescu: under 50 what?
nubbins`: !s deed utils
mircea_popescu: Adlai mpoe.
mircea_popescu: 50k satoshi.
Adlai: oh
nubbins`: mine's in node.js, could use some cleaning up. punkman's is in... py?
mircea_popescu: punkman they dun have backups where you live ?
punkman: mircea_popescu: was first run, fat-fingered some sql
mircea_popescu: now that sucks.
mircea_popescu: the other response of course is, "yeah, i have self-replicating backups, i just watched the deletion propagate across the whole cluster."
punkman: heh
mircea_popescu: "it works fine"
mircea_popescu: anyway, maybe the soution to jurov's problems is merging with the deed system ?
mircea_popescu: just process updates that are deedified ?
punkman: I can implement detached sigs and binary deeds
mircea_popescu: no, you can't. that's the fucking idea.
mircea_popescu: no binary patches, no detached patches.
mircea_popescu: can a project live liek that ?
jurov: punkman or, since you have the form put, once verified you can just send email in
jurov: lol but he doesn't have the form either..just uses pastebin, no?
mircea_popescu: jurov yup.
mircea_popescu: cuz of the bot.
jurov: punkman, you can send the deeds anyway, we can have dedicated mailing list for them
punkman: max deed size is 32kb now
thestringpuller: ;;google site:trilema.com markov chains conversation
gribble: Come see me clutching at straws pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/come-see-me-clutching-at-straws/>
jurov: no i'll have to actually do it, i am not in such a pit as stan and can push jobs around
mircea_popescu: jurov get the deeds firehose, process them into a mailing list by criteria ? this is interesting.
mircea_popescu: ianac, but can a project survive on 32kb text only patches ?
jurov: dunno . guess anyone who wants will subscribe and filter themselves
jurov: nooo, i dont' want to shove it through deedbot
punkman: yeah you can send them compressed too, so I suppose you could send quite big patches as it is
jurov: that means sumbitting zipfiles ad seeds?
mircea_popescu: punkman this dovetails with asciilifeform's "fit in head" ideas.
jurov: *as deeds
jurov: do you really wants to mess aith such? doing html form is easier
mircea_popescu: jurov mostly exploring teh possibilities i think. some of which make one recoil in horror.
jurov: on that note, if asciilifeform still did not get the emails, i'm gonna send him the diests by snail mail
jurov: *digests
jurov: * punkman is furiously trying to undelete << lol and i have multi-day multi-machine job that invokes OOM killer every coupla hours. i can live with it.
Adlai: ... why are we still talking about how to manage a project through patches-by-mail?
mircea_popescu: Adlai because we're upset with the system.
Adlai: if you're married to patches, at least use darcs
jurov: Adlai because the goal is transparent verification of all contributions
jurov: if you can explain ti asciilifeform how to use dracs tho achieve this
punkman: maybe a gpg plugin for gitorious or gitlab
jurov: so? punkman, make that plugin. just some 5 lines, no?
punkman: probably
mircea_popescu: punkman one that isn't retarded pretty much reduces to "reimplement pgp" task we're loath to start.
mircea_popescu: jurov you snarky boy!
jurov: in short a system where it can be proven beyond doubt and without third-party service "X posted it, Y,Z signed it, A made a release"
Adlai: btw, this is quite relevant and maybe even a better starting point than 0.5.3: https://github.com/jgarzik/picocoin/tree/master/include/ccoin
assbot: picocoin/include/ccoin at master · jgarzik/picocoin · GitHub
Adlai: libccoin is a valgrind clean bitcoin node, written in C
mircea_popescu: Adlai how do you figure ?
mircea_popescu: i think you might be confused as to what's happening here.
Adlai: mircea_popescu: how do i figure using darcs superior to patches-by-mail, or working off libccoin superior to working off 0.5.3?
punkman: speaking of reimplementing things: https://github.com/singpolyma/OpenPGP-Python << a python port of a php implementation of openpgp standard
assbot: singpolyma/OpenPGP-Python · GitHub
mircea_popescu: the idea is not an alternative, non braindamaged bitcoin reimplementation. the idea is confiscating the canonical bitcoin implementation from the current set of monkeys.
mircea_popescu: quite distinct, these.
Adlai: either goal can be accomplished from either starting point
mircea_popescu: you're not in a position to make that judgement.
jurov: Adlai how do you do with darcs the "beyond doubt" stuff ?
jurov: ls explain
jurov: pls
Adlai: mircea_popescu: i make no judgements, just throwing out ideas
mircea_popescu: <Adlai> either goal can be accomplished from either starting point << that is a judgement.
Adlai: lolok
jurov: throwin out is easy. im asking you to throw in how darcs fullfills it
mircea_popescu: anyway, i have nfi about coding workflow from the pov of the workflower, however, darcs seems that much math grad wankathon.
Adlai: i'll shut up and shower because evidently i've been too far outside the loop to have meaningful input to these high and mighty goingons
mircea_popescu: no, rather, YOU are too high and mighty to have meaningful input.
jurov: you don't have meaningfuil answer to my qs?
mircea_popescu: i get it, "patches by mail" = bad because that's how they did it before women were liberated or some shit. nevertheless. how is the spiffy work for our purpose ?
Adlai: darcs is more organized than patches-over-mail, i've not used it enough to know whether it has any builtin support for patch signing
mircea_popescu: well this exposes the problem eh.
Adlai: however darcs is just a slight layer over patches
mircea_popescu: no but look at the process! you heard about something, thought it was cool and now want to use it on that basis ?
mircea_popescu: this is not how anything is supposed to fucking work.
Adlai: i'll just drop a nice photo here and go shower
mats_cd03: lol.
jurov: look, when we'll have 100 patches then we can talk how to get "better organized"
mircea_popescu: if this turns into another "you're mean and a cult because systemd" thing i swear...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80900 @ 0.00046419 = 37.553 BTC [+] {2}
Adlai said no such thing
thestringpuller: MPOE being shorted has increased volume 2 fold.
mircea_popescu only now sees punkman link. jesus. does that even hash ?
Adlai: just, that i'm not in a mental state to conduct any sort of serious discussion right now
mircea_popescu: Adlai dun sweat it.
Adlai: if only this imgur thingy would get its shit together
mircea_popescu: use instagram, it's what the best butt online uses!
thestringpuller: kim kardashian's but isn't real
punkman: Adlai: are you coding in the trenches now?
mircea_popescu: lol is that a tank being decomissioned ?
Adlai: no, i spent my time in the trenches edumacatin the trenchgoers about bitcoin
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller how do you mean it's not real yo.
Adlai: they were actually quite fascinated by it, and a surprising number had never ever heard of it
mircea_popescu: i mean pretty fucking unreal, i grant. yet...
mircea_popescu: Adlai wait what trenches ?
Adlai: metaphorical ones
Adlai: but the metaphor isn't too far from reality
Adlai just got back from a week in reserve dooty as a signals technician in an artillery thingy
Adlai: whence the photo
Adlai: shower time!
jurov: ha, military. now i see where the "musta organize" comes from ;)
mircea_popescu: militarize all teh thangs!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25327 @ 0.00046234 = 11.7097 BTC [-]
Adlai: well there's a big difference between military hierarchy and structured decentralization, but have your laffs while i have my baffs
Adlai: and for the record, i got kicked out of officer school for being "unfit for military command", so i'm not exactly the most militarized person...
mircea_popescu: actually afaik the us army has been trying to do away with 1800s french military style hierarchy in favour of something more akin to the latter.
Adlai: maybe they can start with not having mercenaries salute 20yo shitstains fresh out of west poopt
mircea_popescu: if they do that, they'll have to actually pay idiots to go to west point
mircea_popescu: rather than charge them.
assbot: Bagels7 +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
assbot: Mars Attacks Why Can't We All Just Get Along YouTube - YouTube
mircea_popescu: !up bagels7
bagels7: Oh hey, I was just wondering how it would be nice to not hear about kim's ass once in a while, perhaps a whole day even
Adlai: last time i heard irl about kim was actually back in my mandatory service
Adlai: (now i have to differentiate between stories from mandatory and reserve... wonderful)
mircea_popescu: bagels7 you'd be wondering how it'd be nice ?
mircea_popescu: Adlai you don't actually have to...
Adlai: some guy was talking about her instagram account and he said that she uploads pictures of her dog, and her furniture, and whatnot
bagels7: yeah to not see a huge ass first thing in the morning
Adlai: and he was genuinely trying to convince people that he doesn't follow her just because of dat ass
mircea_popescu: bagels7 don't take this the wrong way, because it's not actually going where it may seem, butt : are you a girl ?
Adlai: mircea_popescu: this is true
bagels7: oh you saw dpb's comment or twitter I'll guess
mircea_popescu: actually no, i dun read twitter. but i just added you know, two an' two together.
Adlai: ugh this week resurrected my mysoginism
bagels7: oh yes im so girly im ashamed
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2EGRBYF.txt )
mircea_popescu: anyway : boys like highly sexed girls. it's a thing. it doesn't actually say anything about you.
bagels7: do you like highly sexed
Adlai: there is nothing girly about not liking ass, girls are allowed to like manass
mircea_popescu: Adlai girls don't tend to like highly sexed girls because they're disruptive.
Adlai: what's disruptive about the "oldest profession"?
bagels7: Oh well I am an escort so I kind of have to shave my legs and do make up and all that
Adlai: (this is a false cliche btw... the oldest profession, imo, is "boss")
mircea_popescu: Adlai exactly that.
mircea_popescu: bagels7 oh you are ? where do you work ?
mircea_popescu: Adlai and boss is not a profession.
bagels7: Montreal, quebec, canada
mircea_popescu: ;;rate bagels7 1 says she's an escort in montreal. if you ever visit, lemme know how it went.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user bagels7 has been recorded.
Adlai: on that note, i'm gonna wash the smell of diesel sweat and boot polish out of my hair
mircea_popescu: you're just going to jack off
Adlai: "just"
danielpbarron: ;;rated bagels7
gribble: You rated user bagels7 on Tue Nov 11 06:40:19 2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: boy who pretends to be a girl; http://twitter.com/SakuraSoph.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron dja see teh weewee in question ?
bagels7: nope ^
mircea_popescu: bagels7 you got a page up somewhere or how does the escort business even work these days ? dja advertise ?
bagels7: someone does it for me
xanthyos: danielpbarron: is it your job to out people?
bagels7: They do newspapers which are getting more and more expensive since all the cheap advertising ones get bought, and there is a website somewhere
mircea_popescu: yeah i heard this is the latest business model, "make cheap advertising paper to drive up numbers, wait for buyout offers". apparently it can be cycled in 2-3 years.
mircea_popescu: some people that used to do "refurbishing" places back in the bubble moved on to this.
mircea_popescu: xanthyos everyone's job is to out people!
xanthyos: it's unrelated to trust though, and the insinuation of "boy pretends to be girl" is that bagels7 is dishonest
xanthyos: also historically once the transgender cat is out of the bag that's all everyone wants to talk about
danielpbarron: dishonest with himself
xanthyos: i'm still so jittery from last night
mircea_popescu: well, at least we moved on from kim's butt.
assbot: Real Time with Bill Maher: Generation Ass (HBO) - YouTube
bagels7: What do you expect from this WoT, Is fraud a concern
xanthyos: ooh btc fell back slightly. brb gonna call bank see if those coinbase deposits went in
xanthyos: i really really really hope that some sort of bad thing doesn't happen now that my checking account is tied to this...
xanthyos words not have smooth talk
xanthyos: brain damage need christ
xanthyos: i need danielpbarron to talk for me like aaron spoke for moses
thestringpuller: coinbase is already reporting you.
thestringpuller: just link to account you don't care gets seized.
xanthyos: so if i buy off coinbase should i not send to my existing wallet which right now is totally anon
thestringpuller: Intermediary addresses is good practice for plausible deniability.
xanthyos: is it a crime to buy bitcoin?
xanthyos: or sell
thestringpuller: !s from:asciilifeform benjies otc
assbot: 1 results for 'from:asciilifeform benjies otc' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+benjies+otc
xanthyos: i don't feel i should hvae to deny anything
xanthyos: if a bank calls me up suspicously i will turn it on them. how dare you bother a long standing customer!
xanthyos: i'm allowed to fluctuate my balance as much as i want
thestringpuller: all while they are being raped with USG cock in their mouth
xanthyos: the fact that it's taking 2+ days for me to even see these mcirodeposits speaks to the obsolescence of banks
xanthyos: btc went up 60/ea since
xanthyos: !up bagels7
thestringpuller: i'm probably going to revert to cash only OTC. at least I know there is some resistance to my coincs going into Buterin's Waterfall.
danielpbarron: i made that switch a while ago
thestringpuller: regulators gonna regulate like warren g and nate d to the double g
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 900 @ 0.0012 = 1.08 BTC
TomServo: What do you guys figure is a reasonable markup for cash trades?
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: how difficult is it to set up "deals"?
danielpbarron: kinda hard to find them; not so hard to do them
mircea_popescu: <bagels7> What do you expect from this WoT, Is fraud a concern << that didn't parse. say wut ?
danielpbarron: more work than coinbase obviously
thestringpuller: coinbase is a lot of work. I have to keep my accounts separate and can't have money fluctuate too high or low without suspcicious phone calls.
danielpbarron: usually have to pay higher fees too
mircea_popescu: <xanthyos> if a bank calls me up suspicously i will turn it on them. how dare you bother a long standing customer! << lmao this works, yeah.
mircea_popescu: figure it out, the only customer of the bank is the govt.
mircea_popescu: you're just getting in the way.
assbot: Holy shit! Technical Analysis is real! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
xanthyos: woop 24 cents and 10 cents microdeposits went thru, activating coinbase
xanthyos: no more buying btc through stander
xanthyos: stander is the guy that danielpbarron and RetroUpriser and i have bought btc through for a while
mircea_popescu: !up eightyeight
xanthyos: Amount Received
xanthyos: 0.002637 BTC
xanthyos: From Avatar Coinbase
mircea_popescu: what's even the point of buying fractions of bitcents ?
xanthyos: it was free for signing up
xanthyos: now i see it takes 4 days for them to send btc
xanthyos: twice as long as a bank
bagels7: <+mircea_popescu>I'm so poor I can't afford your articles yet
mircea_popescu: lol gotta work more.
xanthyos: mircea_popescu: is 440 a good buy price now?
bagels7: Well where could I work without a degree?
xanthyos: here!
assbot: People! US Dollars are not worth a fifth of a Bitcent. STOP SELLING! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
bagels7: I've been abused in every single job I had except my latest
xanthyos: use the wot to set up your own network of unabusive clientele
xanthyos: wow coinbase is WAY cheaper than stander
xanthyos: i bought .2!
xanthyos: i'm a real man now
xanthyos: bagels7: did you bust out on seals yet?
TomServo: bagels7: /msg assbot !up
xanthyos: ;;gettrust bagels7
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask bagels7!bagels7@modemcable232.144-161-184.mc.videotron.ca. Trust relationship from user xanthyos to user bagels7: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 2 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=xanthyos&dest=bagels7 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=bagels7 | Rated since: Tue Nov 11 00:46:41 2014
mircea_popescu: punkman: big tits, more money << i can see it.
mircea_popescu: !up cryptomaniac
xanthyos: why is bagels7 being devoiced with l2 assbot?
mircea_popescu: she never voiced herself.
mircea_popescu: ;;ident bagels7
gribble: Nick 'bagels7', with hostmask 'bagels7!bagels7@modemcable232.144-161-184.mc.videotron.ca', is identified as user 'Bagels7', with GPG key id 82C85EDC160BB29F, key fingerprint ACE4936BDD6EBB8338F5282E82C85EDC160BB29F, and bitcoin address 16SvyfnNumVGr8qp1xRgupKpdEjWtAC5rN
mircea_popescu: just pm assbot !up yo.
xanthyos: nice pronoun mp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44963 @ 0.00046111 = 20.7329 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: "Besides the possible reasons for the trend— namely that younger women with less purchasing power may be the ones buying smaller-sized bras"
mircea_popescu: aaaahahahaha
mircea_popescu: yeah, totally, young women have less purchasing power than older women.
mircea_popescu: because this is imaginaryworld.
mircea_popescu: Singles Day—the annual Nov 11 online shopping frenzy in which Alibaba saw as many as 2.85 million transactions a minute at its peak, and a total of $9.3 billion in sales
xanthyos: so children with underdeveloped breasts now shop for themselves?
xanthyos: their big-titted mothers still provide their adolescents bras right?
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 9300 / (60 * 24 * 2.85 / 2)
gribble: 4.53216374269
mircea_popescu: o look, average sale five bux.
bagels7: no, women with large breasts make more money causing poor women to mainly be small tit owners
mircea_popescu: xanthyos monkeys don't have any tits to speak of. the female breast is clearly the result of selection. the only way that works is for women with tits to have money while women without not to.
xanthyos: is it selection by males or did women with larger breasts simply have more milk to feed their young?
xanthyos: and provided more viable offspring
mike_c: or is it a broad generalization with little practical application?
mircea_popescu: nfi. i imagine it's purely aesthetic.
mircea_popescu: mike_c you mean like math, right ?
mike_c: absolutely
xanthyos: it's a counterweight to the ass
xanthyos: so women don't fall back
bagels7: yes broad generalizations with very little practical use
mike_c: you know what i like about math? i recently had a difficult math problem to solve, and didn't feel like dealing with it. so i had a math TA do it for total cost of 0.
mircea_popescu: mike_c same is true of women with big tits!
mircea_popescu: if you don't feel like doing it, you can always ask a ta.
mircea_popescu: turns out there's a lot of predictive power in this tits like math thing.
xanthyos: i sent to my bc.i from coinbase. i am no longer anonymous.
mike_c: hm, this deserves more study. with pictures.
mircea_popescu: mike_c i predict golf club patterns!
mircea_popescu: jurov: gpg: BAD signature from "Adlai Chandrasekhar <<< wait his real name is actually adlai ?!
mircea_popescu: that's a pretty rad name.
xanthyos: adlai atkins
assbot: Live updates: Rosetta mission comet landing / Operations / Our Activities / ESA
assbot: Father Asks Obama to Use Executive Order to Bring Son Slain by Illegal Alien Back to Life
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00045949 = 6.8464 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: Adlai: darcs << as a military man, perhaps you are familiar with systems that could be automated easily, but aren't? e.g., ru nuke sub controls
asciilifeform: Adlai: manual patching is a deliberate choice here. each patch is a document that those who sign it are expected to actually read -and- understand.
Adlai: in my experience, all systems can be automated, and it's only a matter of deciding at what level you're willing to lose a human's judgement/"moral compass", but gain the benefits of automation
asciilifeform: Adlai: once you understand why i suggested it, and why those who agreed - agreed - you will learn something interesting.
asciilifeform: Adlai: i like 'git', 'darcs', etc. automata just as much as the next lazy fellow. but they are wholly inappropriate for this application. try to see why.
assbot: Cloud&Heat is putting servers in homes and offices and the heat from them is free.
Adlai: i'll admit that my feeling that darcs could be appropriate for this purpose is based more on speculation from darcs's theoretic background than on familiarity with the actual working software
asciilifeform: punkman: germany has same electric rates for residential and commercial lines ?
asciilifeform: punkman: seems unlikely
punkman: no idea
punkman: might be better with mining rigs
asciilifeform: Adlai: elaborate please re: theoretical.
Adlai: would you automate the following system: a car that self-destructs (killing the intruder) when it detects that it's being accessed without the owner's permission? where ownership is determined in an arbitrarily advanced way, ie, physical token, password, biometric, whatever you fancy.
asciilifeform: ah, the ancient mines vs sentries debate.
asciilifeform: but this here is more of a sword vs pistol debate.
asciilifeform: battlefield: an elevator.
asciilifeform: Adlai: let's backtrack. the purpose of the effort spoken of earlier is to go from a 'bitcoind' of known pedigree to something worth using as a reference for, possibly in the future, reimplementation (how and by whom, deliberately not said)
joecool: your effort or gavin's?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes and mod6
asciilifeform: i'm only involved briefly and by accident.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42879 @ 0.00045831 = 19.6519 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: gavin is a fellow on the enemy side.
asciilifeform: the deltas between the original and the end product are to be studied and judged by the participants (currently ben_vulpes, mod6, and occasionally yours truly)
asciilifeform: in order to be studied in such a way as to be signable with good conscience, a given delta must exist as a purely human-readable document, of minimal length and formatting complexity.
asciilifeform: this means - ordinary unix patch.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: what do you think about BIP-65?
assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 01:46:06; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: bip-0065 << classic 'relevance farming.' the phoundation will take any excuse to add cruft to the gizmo. in their fantasy, folks will use it, and those who have resisted their turds will be forced to merge in.
asciilifeform: but more generally, any and all 'improvements' from the enemy ought to be thought of as 'fruits of poison tree'
thestringpuller: hmm. what do you think of the nlocktime problem?
asciilifeform: problem?
asciilifeform: no gavin, no gavinisms - no problem.
thestringpuller: nlocktime gives spender power to double spend before nlocktime occurs
nubbins`: surely the coar devs have spoken on this point
thestringpuller: but yes I do see the new opcode as sorta crufty on "cruft"
asciilifeform: 'doctor, it hurts when i do it.' 'don't do it.'
thestringpuller: so how would you use nlocktime asciilifeform ?
asciilifeform: i wouldn't.
thestringpuller: its a pretty neat feature for say senior to give jr. allotments of capital at guarenteed future date
asciilifeform: we've a dire case of featuritis.
nubbins`: ;;google feature creep
gribble: Feature creep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_creep>; What is feature creep - SearchCIO - TechTarget: <http://searchcio.techtarget.com/definition/feature-creep>; Urban Dictionary: feature creep: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=feature%20creep>
nubbins`: hm i've got a specific creep in mind
asciilifeform: one of the facts re: the phoundation is - even if gavin et. al. add something that is unambiguously, probably, angelically, positive to their turd - it is still an act of evil.
nubbins`: ;;google feature creep site:dilbert.com
gribble: Feature Creep on Dilbert.com: <http://search.dilbert.com/comic/Feature%20Creep>; February 5 2001 - Dilbert: <http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2001-02-05/>; Dilbert comic strip for 02/25/2013 from the official Dilbert comic strips ...: <http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-02-25/>
thestringpuller: yes yes. but if this is case should we not remove nlocktime altogether?
asciilifeform: how? because it then serves as bait, sugar so that you will swallow the shit.
assbot: Dilbert comic strip for 02/05/2001 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.
asciilifeform: at this point, the enemy is enemy not simply because of what he does or may do, but because of what he has done and what he is.
asciilifeform: this is a phrase transition of sorts.
nubbins`: ;;google know your enemy
gribble: Rage Against The Machine: Know Your Enemy - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4smim2MNvF8>; Green Day: "Know Your Enemy" - [Official Video] - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IclmVdWNbI>; Know Your Enemy (Green Day song) - Wikipedia, the free ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Your_Enemy_(Green_Day_song)>
asciilifeform: *phase transition
thestringpuller: the one by rage is pretty good
thestringpuller: "all of which are american dreams"
nubbins`: soooo, the fluorescent tubes that took TEN WEEKS to get here? turns out "F20T12/BL 6PK" is the item number not of a 6-pack, but of a single bulb
nubbins`: so instead of 18 bulbs, the guy pulls... three.
nubbins`: each of which is 6x more expensive than i'd previously thought.
asciilifeform: if what i just said seems like nuttery, consider this. the 'bug fixes', so obviously bright and good, by phoundation since 0.5.3 - somehow add up to us not being able to load a full blockchain.
asciilifeform: hence, they add up to an act of sabotage. what probably amounts to a hard fork that 'no one' noticed.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: know thy enemy << enemies are only relative. yesterday's allies easily become tomorrow's enemies. (perhaps maybe a one way street).
asciilifeform: there is precisely one enemy. but with many tentacles.
nubbins`: anyone besides alf actually tried and failed loading blockchain on 0.5.3?
thestringpuller: cthulu-like?
asciilifeform: there are also idiots. some of whom are of the 'useful idiot' variety
asciilifeform: nubbins`: iirc ben_vulpes did
nubbins`: i was getting there but my virtual disk was too small, ran outta space, weird disk error ;/
asciilifeform: nubbins`: ask him where it wedged in his case
thestringpuller: nubbins`: i'll give it a try today on a VPS
nubbins`: trying again
nubbins`: ;;later tell ben_vulpes ^^ tell us what you know
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: nubbins`: so instead of 18 bulbs, the guy pulls... three. << so now you have to wait another 10 weeks to get the next 15 you need?
los_pantalones: !up mrjr
los_pantalones: mrjr is working w/ ntimelock
los_pantalones: for those of you with questions
nubbins`: thestringpuller so now i say fuck that company and order the gd bulbs online
mike_c: !up mrjr
nubbins`: you know this is the second time i've gotten dicked around over bulbs?
thestringpuller: you would think it wouldn't be so difficult
thestringpuller: !up mrjr
nubbins`: guy made me wait 15 minutes while he struggled to determine if they actually sold 6-packs
nubbins`: 15 actual minutes
nubbins`: while he mutters OH MY SOME SLOW
nubbins`: and a passing woman says SLOW WOULD BE AN IMPROVEMENT
mrjr: hi guys what did i miss :)
nubbins`: how in the fuck is this a functioning business
los_pantalones: mrjr why don't you tell them a bit of what you are doing w/ ntimelock
thestringpuller: annoying the customer out of their money.
los_pantalones: see if that's compelling to the ppl in here
thestringpuller: los_pantalones: is this in regard to BIP-65?
mrjr: los_pantalones: i run LedgerLock, we're working on a product called time-vault, to secure your bitcoins in nlocked transactions rather than protecting the priv key
mrjr: one of the first services we're providing (closed beta now) is keeping your nlock'ed transactions for you, until they're ripe for confirmations on the blockchain
thestringpuller: mrjr: aren't you in wot? what's your id?
mrjr: thestringpuller: never had the need for it :)
nubbins`: until now :D
nubbins`: pull up a chair
nubbins`: tell us more!
punkman: mrjr, guessing multisig
thestringpuller: ;;later tell BingoBoingo nvm; disregard
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mrjr: multisig is useful to protect access to privkey, by splitting the power of moving funds to 2+ entities. we pre-sign transactions, nlocked in time, and discard the private key.
mrjr: (or keys)
mrjr: there's edge cases with malleability etc, but the benefits are that bitcoin operations can have their coins kept in a tx form, not as the information of the privkey
mrjr: we're working on a whitepaper to have some feedback on our design :)
mrjr: the tech is useful e.g. for an exchange/bank that keeps large amounts of BTC, but has a daily use for BTC as clients withdraw funds.
thestringpuller: conclusion: our service holds burden of trust for time delay transactions
thestringpuller: but you already know that.
mats_cd03: i don't see how thats useful
mrjr: thestringpuller: our first service is just what you wrote, giving the network a means to trust that a tx will be valid on time (unless ofcourse it was double spent, in which case you get notified)
mrjr: thestringpuller: the greater product is larger in scope
thestringpuller: then you should def be in WoT "there is no need" more like "there is no greater need"
thestringpuller: cause you are the trustee
mrjr: thestringpuller: i'll work on getting my creds in order :) meni rosenfeld is one of our investors, and our cto Shaul Kfir was a reviewer for the sidechain paper.
mrjr: i'm also the founder of Bits of Gold, the largest exchange in Israel
mrjr: gotta go, be back soon
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28419 @ 0.00044989 = 12.7854 BTC [-] {2}
Pierre_Rochard: “i'll work on getting my creds in order :)” <- translation: “I won’t work on that, and here’s an insincere smile to really reinforce what I think of it”
thestringpuller: ^- pretty much
asciilifeform: mrjr: secure your bitcoins in nlocked transactions rather than protecting the priv key << wai wat.
asciilifeform: mrjr: delayed transaction, per that scheme, still eventually lands in an addr. secured with what if not priv key ?
asciilifeform: ;;later tell jurov nothing in my mailbox from turdatron.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !up mrjr
mrjr: asciilifeform: you're right, but by pre-signing you ensure that the amounts available at that address, per unit time, are limited. our first partners are ATM machine operators
mrjr: think of the daily needs of those machines, vs the amount stored "in cold storage" using traditional systems
asciilifeform: per unit time. but what can you do if someone walks with the privkey to the landing address?
asciilifeform: if you already broadcast the delayed tx, all the thief has to do is wait.
mrjr: you can't and don
mrjr: 't broadcast the txs to that address
mrjr: you broadcast daily, as it's needed.
asciilifeform: what's the actual purpose of the delay ?
asciilifeform: let's work example
asciilifeform: take ordinary, delay-less coin. you fill up the atm's addr nightly, say. if you are told that someone walked away with the machine, you no longer send to that one.
asciilifeform: install new machine, with new address, more guards.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13600 @ 0.00044315 = 6.0268 BTC [-]
mrjr: there's an alternative pre-signed transaction chain that sends the coins to alternative addresses, possibly more protected, and a pre-signed "lockdown" transaction that just sends the coins to a non-practical (from an operation standpoint) multisig
asciilifeform: in the case of delay mechanism: you've broadcast a set of delayed transactions that will keep landing in the now-stolen addr. nightly.
mrjr: i'll take your example and explain
mrjr: say you presign 50 BTC / day to a given ATM, coming from your stash of 1000 BTC.
mrjr: you do not broadcast those tx, you just keep the txs, signed, and discard the privkey to your 1000 BTC (!)
asciilifeform: i understand the 'what.' but not the 'why.'
mrjr: you pre-sign the txs that move the remaining 1000 BTC - x days to a non-practical multisig
mrjr: the why is: the operators of the ATM no longer have a need to reach out for the cold-stored 1000 BTC
asciilifeform: they didn't before
asciilifeform: when you sent to them manually each day.
mrjr: "when you sent them manually"
mrjr: *manually*
asciilifeform: if you like to keep the privkey to the 1000 buried in concrete at the bottom of the sea - you can sign X tx'es of B btc each, and transmit those each day with cron job
mrjr: I operate a 1000 ATMs, and I have a stash of 10,000 BTC (les pretend i do :) )
asciilifeform: you want the btc network to be your 'cron' ?
joecool: more robust i guess if an attack wipes him out?
mrjr: you still need a cron, to send the nlocked txs every day
joecool: then what's the point -_-
mrjr: however you could publish those txs on your blog for all you care
asciilifeform: what does the 'lock' prevent the enemy from doing, that he could have done otherwise ?
mrjr: if the attacker has access to all your txs in unlocked version, they can indeed run away with everything
mrjr: discarding the privkey is a measure against internal theft, which is key to this scheme
asciilifeform: the other, unrelated point about the timelock business, is that it introduces an incentive to monkey with timekeeping
asciilifeform: which is not something that currently afflicts node operators
jurov: <asciilifeform> punkman: germany has same electric rates for residential and commercial lines << they do have lower wholesale prices where you have to obey the grid management regime, dunno about details
asciilifeform: if a critical mass of ntp servers (e.g. the u.s. hierarchy) is pwned, there go your timelocks.
mrjr: did i explain sufficiently the motivation part?
punkman: asciilifeform: nlocktime is block height I think
asciilifeform reads the thing
punkman: oh both apparently?
joecool: punkman: it has to be both
mrjr: we ran the scenario on the withdraw data from gox
mrjr: (put asside their entire fiasco, just the data)
mrjr: we saw that with just 1,000 BTC accessible to the operators, they could cover 96% of their Bitcoin withdrawal needs
mrjr: the remaining 200k+ BTC can be stored in a form that is in-accessible to the operator, and unavailable for "rogue txs" that steal everything
mrjr: inaccessible = nobody can sign, because the key no longer exists.
mrjr: that includes internal theft.
asciilifeform admits that he suspects bip64 of being a plot to create usg-like bonds in btc. folks will be asked to trace X proper btc for X+epsilon 'locked' ones that are to land back in their pocket 'in the future', should they live long enough, but are actually recovable 'because this is how the world works'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^^^^^
asciilifeform: *revocable
asciilifeform: alice in the looking-glass, famously is offered 'jam tomorrow and jam yesterday -- but never jam today.'
asciilifeform: bip64, aside from complicating the protocol and giving relevance to the gavin shitgang, is also a jam-tomorrow chumpatronic engineering structural element
asciilifeform: so sorely missing from bitcoin from the point of view of the enemy.
mrjr: i wasnt aware there was politics behind nlock. always considered it as potentially very useful.
asciilifeform: but now you're aware.
mrjr: got a blog / post on the issue you're describing? sounds interesting
asciilifeform: afaik this here is the only place you'll hear the argument.
asciilifeform: i just deduced it now.
asciilifeform: can't imagine i'm the only one, though.
mrjr: ill go get my wot in order
mrjr: ttyl
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mats_cd03: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 399.08, Best ask: 399.97, Bid-ask spread: 0.89000, Last trade: 399.98, 24 hour volume: 49575.14498042, 24 hour low: 381.55, 24 hour high: 453.92, 24 hour vwap: 429.779216449
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: can't imagine i'm the only one, though. << you aren't
xanthyos: come mr towel man towel my banana
xanthyos: why does btc always crash the second i buy it
xanthyos: ^^ proof positive that jesus hates me
xanthyos: that's it, i'm gonna blow it all on 1 hand of internet roulette
undata: xanthyos: that should've been expected with such a sharp rise.
xanthyos: if it crashes, my purchase goes through, if it goes to the moon, coinbase will cancel the transaction
xanthyos: i hope not^
undata: you've angered bitjesus I guess
xanthyos: mammon?
asciilifeform: mammon << sterculius.
xanthyos: 4 business days is so obscene, no wonder banking is dead
jurov: can't you just buy off stan?
jurov: what would happen, gasenwagen?
asciilifeform: jurov: buy what?
jurov: xanthyos wants to buy coins, you need some $$$
jurov: no?
asciilifeform: jurov: except that i can't use paper usd for anything
asciilifeform: well, almost anything
jurov: and if he gave you some bezzle usd?
asciilifeform: last farmer's market of the year on my street is tonight, and i shall be buying a few tomatoes possibly with it
asciilifeform: jurov: if bezzle usd, then it's on the radar.
jurov: you'd have to register as std..er..money transmitter?
asciilifeform: jurov: i'd be charged tax, most likely
asciilifeform: for no particularly good reason
xanthyos: i only use paper money for poker games and cannabis
dub: your dealer doesnt take btc?
jurov: maybe you can even charge tax to the desperate people
jurov: let them ask it back from irs
asciilifeform: other thing is, i don't have enough to sell, and present exchange rates being, to really notice the resulting pile of usd, even if it could magically land in my usd piggy without official attention.
asciilifeform: let's put it this way. a pile of usd without at least seven or eight decimally-significant zeros trailing after it, would make absolutely no difference to how i live.
asciilifeform: apologies if i've given someone, somewhere, the strange notion that i'm interested in parting with my microscopic collection of btc.
asciilifeform: it's of more use to me as a scientific toy than as a few new tires for car or a dozen spare disks.
assbot: Dickson County Tennessee Sheriff Hit with Ransomware, Pays | Qntra.net
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: missing link in there?
rithm: yeah i was gonna say where is the citation
rithm: you guys _do_ cite your sources
BingoBoingo: citation is now there.
asciilifeform: run moar winblows.
asciilifeform: gotta love these idiots. when'll somebody edit, rather than simply wiping, the case files ?
notary: [trust-update] added: bagels7
rithm: i shared that with my team
rithm: documented sources where the FBI actually makes the recommendation to pay the ransom is useful to me
BingoBoingo: I imagine eventually the ransomware people will start browsing what they've seized
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: traditionally 'ransomware' doesn't exfiltrate
asciilifeform: just pubkey-crypts
TomServo: It's extracted? I thought it was just locked inplace.
rithm: well it's my understanding the data is not exfiltrated
rithm: not immediately although that could be a later payload
asciilifeform: virtually nobody dredges through a chumpnet's entire accessible data set, on account of this being very much like actual work.
rithm: the only data exfiltrated to my knowledge is the decryption key and an identifier for the machine
BingoBoingo: Well yes, normally seems to stay on victim's computer, but if they can lock the files, they can include other shitware
rithm: but it's be trivial to exfiltrate compressed text, sure
asciilifeform: rithm: most of it is probably msword
rithm: it only hits plain text
rithm: so like a .sql db is plaintext unless encrypted
rithm: it hits plain text viewable docs, even weird proprietary ones
rithm: proprietary .idx files and stuff. always plaintext though
asciilifeform: speaking of the general case here.
asciilifeform: 'civilians' often seriously misunderstand the motivation behind botnetsmanship.
rithm: i had an engineer reinstall windows on a cryptowall pc this week and return it to the client
asciilifeform: the objective, virtually always, is to make some fast money
asciilifeform: with minimal effort
rithm: we never tested the docs, the client brought it to us and tried to hide or cleasn it up
rithm: we returned it "fixed" never check ed the client's docs
rithm: i think i've dealt with 5 of those this week
asciilifeform: crapware written for intelligence-gathering purposes ( BingoBoingo's picture above ) rarely takes the shape of a 'botnet', usually there is some effort to target a narrow set of chumpers.
joecool: poweliks is a really interesting infection that often pulls in the cyperlocker ransomware, that hit the wild a couple months ago
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @ 0.00044251 = 17.0809 BTC [-]
rithm: it's cryptowall now and from what i can tell it's infected sites like mom & pop's ruinning old WP/drupal/some CMS
rithm: the story i hear is Nancy was checking vendor's site and the next thing she knows bam cryptowall
rithm: remote code execution is code execution is execution
rithm: the problem is cryptolocker runs entirely in the user context
rithm: so anything the user has access to, specifically filesystem permissions
rithm: they can modify
rithm: so the payload is a real basic thing, modifying files. i hate it
joecool: rithm: ever play with TDL4?
rithm: i don't see a lot of those infections
rithm: used to see a good bit tdss
rithm: etc
rithm: i myself have not deployed my own nefarious variant of that either, no
joecool: it's been a long time for me, but that was the most sophisticated and difficult infection i've seen, XP was hit really easy with it
rithm: in general i have run subscription based-packet filtering firewalls to stop things
rithm: because users are stupid
joecool: poweliks is much more simple, usually creates a binary in registry hides it with a null character and puts it in with something that gets called up a lot (like thumbnail cache)
rithm: poweliks I'm not familiar with
joecool: it's new
joecool: past 2 months or so it's been in the wild
rithm: i review a lot of the desktop stuff, not actually interface with it on the frontlines
rithm: so i need to study
joecool: i got called in to look at an infection that no tool but combofix would pick up, combofix itself would not successfully remove it
rithm: oic there's now PE or even a filesystem object
asciilifeform: crapware artists, generally, aren't focused on 'maximally pwning' a chump in the abstract sense, but in extracting whatever it is that he is worth - e.g., cc #s
rithm: *no PE
asciilifeform: if userland turd suffices for this, then so be it, they use one
joecool: asciilifeform: poweliks by default runs a keylogger and is pretty candid about storing the output in plaintext in a tmp file
joecool: it's simple but effective tool to pull in all sorts of junk, the case i was called in to look at was actually a POS system :-\
rithm: i can see how something like this plus a ram scraper would be effective
rithm: on POS
assbot: No, You Can't Seize Country TLDs, US Court Rules - Slashdot
mircea_popescu: flimsy as fyck pretext
mircea_popescu: they should have found that tlds are of the nature of national sovereignty and that cannot be impinged upon by an us court.
asciilifeform: usa recognizes only own sovereignty.
mircea_popescu: the very definition of a terrorist organisation.
assbot: Logged on 08-11-2014 18:24:33; mircea_popescu: "those people's laws aren't really laws, our laws are really laws".
mircea_popescu: if that's the case, the us can not be part of the un.
mircea_popescu: as unintuitive as this may seem, these two are actually different.
mircea_popescu: it's roughly the difference between me not recognising X's thinking as valid and me not recognising X's property as his.
mircea_popescu: assbot: Cloud&Heat is putting servers in homes and offices and the heat from them is free. << o look, one step closer to the bitcoin miner heating tile element.
assbot: FBI Stops Responding To The Most Prolific FOIA Filer, Because He Might Actually Learn Something | Techdirt
asciilifeform: next thing you know, they start asking 'proof of work'.
asciilifeform: foiacoin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: i wouldn't. << heh. exactly.
assbot: Bank of Canada: Bitcoin Poses No Risk But We'll Watch It Closely Anyway | Qntra.net
assbot: Meet the Punk Rocker Who Can Liberate Your FBI File | Mother Jones
mircea_popescu: The FBI claims that it cannot discuss the case in open court "without damaging the very national security law enforcement interests it is seeking to protect." Instead, it has filed a secret declaration outlining its case. "This is an especially circular and Kafkaesque line of argument," Shapiro counters. "The FBI considers it a national security threat to make public its reasoning for considering it a national security
mircea_popescu: threat to use federal law to request information about the FBI's deeply problematic understanding of national security threats."
mircea_popescu: shot the guy an email, curious what comes of this.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: its a pretty neat feature for say senior to give jr. allotments of capital at guarenteed future date << there are better solutions to this problem.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: at this point, the enemy is enemy not simply because of what he does or may do, but because of what he has done and what he is. <<< well, at the previous point the enemy was not an enemy at all, just a bunch of derps. it's ony recently that trilema went from "power rangers" to "gavin has turned", and for a while there prior to the 2013 debacle he was not even being treated in concordance with the idiocy
mircea_popescu: he, in retrospect, universally displays.
asciilifeform: enemy is built out of useful idiots, in the same way that a tree is made of atmospheric co2 and soil nutrients
mircea_popescu: the naivity of contemporaneity, as it's called. hitler also seemed pretty reasonable to plenty of people as far up as perhaps 1940, but that's not preventing a current understanding of the guy to see him as pretty fucking broken as early as 1930
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/04CVCC6.txt )
mircea_popescu: kafka is actually famous for exactly the ability to render this real situation in works of fiction. as you read through the castle or whatever, at some point you realise this is all pretty nutty, but if you look back to spot when the nuttiness started...well... it didn't seem so at the time.
asciilifeform: this goes straight back to galbraith's original discussion where he coined 'the bezzle.'
jurov: ;;later tell Adlai your msg finally went throught. it choked on not mime structure intricacies
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: a bezzle is there, whether or not the 'wave function collapsed yet'.
mircea_popescu: for a zoologiocal metaphor, the man once bit by a scorpion will readily recognise the "scorpion biting" as an activity that to the naive may well look rather cute.
mircea_popescu: and certainly not threatening.
mircea_popescu: i mean... look at it's tail lol. what's it going to do with that improbable appendage ? how ridoinculous etc.
mircea_popescu: yeah, sure. give it a minute.
mircea_popescu: !up m4rCsi
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: hence, they add up to an act of sabotage. what probably amounts to a hard fork that 'no one' noticed. << i dun think so, fwiw
asciilifeform: i'm still waiting to be proven mistaken on this one.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: there is precisely one enemy. but with many tentacles. <<< one you see now. once china's idiotic mr Xi shows up you'll be of a differing opinion. that fuckwit came up with a "war on corruption" that includes the theory that conjugal infidelity is both a sign and a symptom of graft. this is what they do over there now, prosecute cocksuckers & sluts.
mircea_popescu: he's definitely just as much an enemy as the wily putin, who clearly understands what bitcoin is all about, and is fighting it more efficiently than the us.
mircea_popescu: so, no. not the same. tentacles tho, i guess.
asciilifeform: same from the perspective that french rev. saw 'kings' as a thing.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
asciilifeform: even though it was rather clear that there were many kings.
mircea_popescu: in any case, the plurality is beneficial. serenissima foreign policy is to continue helping along the numerous and growing breeches among the three
mircea_popescu: just like the original did, among the french germans and latins.
mircea_popescu: ironically, they today as they back then were "the enemy" strictly because they do not wish to understand or submit to trade, and instead seek to insulate against it. as if.
asciilifeform: the philosophical 'win' from setting 'bozo bit' on gavin et. al. and seeing the shitgang as 'enemy' is tangible.
mircea_popescu: i guess so.
mircea_popescu: !up saifedean
asciilifeform: now all of their works are 'guilty until proven innocent' and this is actually a useful heuristic that saves valuable brain cycles when ferreting out the actual logic behind their actions (when there is a logic.)
saifedean: good evening everyone
mircea_popescu: isn't it like midnight where you live ?
mats_cd03: mircea_popescu: who are the three this time?
mircea_popescu: !up reredacted
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 two lines up ?!
saifedean: so the arab bitcoin space is growing up so fast... we are getting our own scamcoin
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: picture a zoologist encountering an alien equivalent of the scorpion for the first time. what will his most important, though scientifically 'fuzziest' observations be? that the animal is - venomous.
saifedean: this guy i know who works on atm's is launching his own cryptocurrency! And it's backed by real assets! REAL
mircea_popescu: saifedean more of that huh.
assbot: UCICOIN Crowdsale
assbot: Universal Crowd-Funding Investments S.A.L (U.C.I S.A.L) Recently Launched Its Crowd Sale and a Crypto Currency Backed by Real Assets and Now is Looking to Establish a Branch in Switzerland - Yahoo Finance
mircea_popescu: how do you say neobee in lebanese
saifedean: UCICOIN, i guess
mircea_popescu: saifedean so do your countrymen a favour, write a local language lenghty piece on exactly how neobee worked, what it was etc.
chetty: !up saifedean
saifedean: i'm not too bothered, i don't think he'll muster more than $100 in "investment"
mircea_popescu: mrjr: multisig is useful to protect access to privkey, by splitting the power of moving funds to 2+ entities. we pre-sign transactions, nlocked in time, and discard the private key. <<< and i know that you do because... you say so ?
mircea_popescu: saifedean that's not the point tho.
saifedean: he keeps trying to recruit me to work with him, and i keep trying my best to bluntly explain to him that his whole thing is going to a giant fat zero, and that the best outcome possible for him is to lose only all his money
mircea_popescu: mrjr: there's edge cases with malleability etc, but the benefits are that bitcoin operations can have their coins kept in a tx form, not as the information of the privkey << this is so braindamaged i can'teven be bothered.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker someone made a clear "here's the water, here's the flour" thing so it's simple and obvious, all sorts of derps come up with all sorts of "improvements" consisting of various doughs. "it stores better as canned frozen dough with our magical chemicals than as simple flour! and you can make things!"
mircea_popescu: this "innovation" is the fucking thing bitcoin was made to kill.
mircea_popescu: mrjr: thestringpuller: i'll work on getting my creds in order :) meni rosenfeld is one of our investors, and our cto Shaul Kfir was a reviewer for the sidechain paper. <<< myewah, the surprises keep right on coming
mircea_popescu: don't bother with the wot, i'll neg you anyway.
mircea_popescu: fucking ignorant derps. "here's a shitpie i made. my investors are ken lay and i'll be making a whipetatter"
chetty: <mircea_popescu> this "innovation" is the fucking thing bitcoin was made to kill.//so they make a lot of messes, thats how kiddies learn and once in a while something useful actually gets invented
mircea_popescu: fuck him. he has a known fraud as an "investor" ? he's fucked.
mircea_popescu: that's what due dilligence fucking means.
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mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^^^^^ < at this level it is difficult to distinguish simple idiocy riding on featuritis (because nobodies wish to get a place in the sun, and absent actual skils what better avenue trhan the pretense of adding value ?) and actual malice as oyu describe.
mircea_popescu: in any case, nlocktime is ulterior on the flow of entalpy to that kafkian point where shit went weird, identified retrospectively.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: jurov: except that i can't use paper usd for anything << do what the soon-to-be-"protected" folk do, use a rechargeable prepaid card lol
BingoBoingo: The good reloadable prepaid cards even allow you to write "checks"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: let's put it this way. a pile of usd without at least seven or eight decimally-significant zeros trailing after it, would make absolutely no difference to how i live. <<< this is like... the definition of poverty!
mircea_popescu: so basically, until he marries kim kardashian, stan will be pretty much going on with whatever it is he's doing today.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: gotta love these idiots. when'll somebody edit, rather than simply wiping, the case files ? << the one time you'll never hear about it, because how would you.
mircea_popescu: joecool: poweliks is a really interesting infection that often pulls in the cyperlocker ransomware, that hit the wild a couple months ago << look at that, someone took the trouble to make a trojan that works on all windowses to date ?
mircea_popescu: "Windows 2000, Windows 7, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2008, Windows Vista, Windows XP", we should probably hire this man.
mircea_popescu: rithm: it's cryptowall now and from what i can tell it's infected sites like mom & pop's ruinning old WP/drupal/some CMS <<< yeah, stuff the shitheads in question don't maintain, then i have to answer biweekly questions of "is qntra down". off with their heads i say!
jurov: str = 'line1\nline2 \\\n'
jurov: fp = open('out.txt', 'w')
jurov: fp.write(str)
jurov: fp.close()
jurov: guess what python does with this?
jurov: EATS THE TRAILING NEWLINE
jurov: SOMEONE PLS KILL ME
jurov: why must this always happen to me?
mircea_popescu: lol poor j
assbot: azelphur@darth-vader:~$ cat test.py str = 'line1\nline2 \\\n' fp = open('out.t - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: the plot, it thickens ?
jurov: Azelphur: hexdump out.txt?
jurov: here: 0000000 696c 656e 0a31 696c 656e 2032 0a5c
mircea_popescu: if this results in a patch to the kernel of w/e jurov's server is using...
Azelphur: 0000000 696c 656e 0a31 696c 656e 2032 0a5c
Azelphur: 000000e
Azelphur: jurov: nope xD
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: use a rechargeable prepaid card << the day of 'thumbprint please sir' or at least 'show id' is not far.
asciilifeform: case files ... the one time you'll never hear about it << once it becomes a plausible thing to claim for a side in a case -> phase transition.
xanthyos: i don't understand free markets
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the definition of poverty! << say moar
jurov: Azelphur: it exchanged the \ and \n
jurov: or my brain misfired
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the argument i was trying to make is that, when grunting on a prison asteroid, a liter of rocket fuel makes very little difference. only L liters - sufficient for liftoff - will.
Azelphur shrugs
Azelphur: jurov: I wonder if it's a Windows line ending thing.
jurov: it's leeeeeenux here !!!1
Azelphur: that's just weird then
asciilifeform: jurov: in my very informal experiments, all extant browsers - without exception - mutilate line endings. so no point in 'paste box' apparatus, unless operated via something like mpex script.
assbot: Logged on 29-10-2014 01:36:19; asciilifeform: because plain ascii is like naked people
jurov: fp = open('out.txt', 'wb') did not help
jurov: but i am not putting the code in browser
jurov: oh you mean the paste box
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: someone took the trouble to make a trojan that works on all windowses to date ? << this is very easy given a purely-userland turd.
asciilifeform: (which the turd in question was. in fact, quite likely it is even mostly posix-compliant.)
jurov: this looks like a trojan in python..using \\\n to trigger
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: the definition of poverty! << say moar <<< sarcasm, the lowest form of wit.
mircea_popescu: o look! there's a parade down my street
mircea_popescu: only the 5th this month.
jurov: damn hexdump switched the endianness, file is actually correct
mircea_popescu: <jurov> here: 0000000 696c 656e 0a31 696c 656e 2032 0a5c << seems correct endian ?
jurov: do hexdump -C
jurov: then it ends in 5c 0a as it should
jurov: but when you open out.txt in less or vim it pretends there is no newline in the end
mircea_popescu: 00000000 6c 69 6e 65 31 5c 6e 6c 69 6e 65 32 20 0a
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00045279 = 5.2524 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: there are total 4 backslashes in 'line1\nline2 \\\n' , maybe irc ate them?
mircea_popescu: but anyway.
mircea_popescu: !up JuliaTourianski
mircea_popescu: how's biz ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neh, i actually was hoping to hear moar.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but i can't dispute the poverty bit.
asciilifeform ragged dervish.
mircea_popescu: you gotta understand for most people $100 in disposable income would actually make a significant difference.
asciilifeform: gotta be shitting me
mircea_popescu: this is definitely most of africa, but i suspect most of the us by now, too.
asciilifeform: aha africa.
mircea_popescu: i am not shitting you.
mircea_popescu: i have yet to meet a female argentinian that's both a) fuckable and b) owner in her own right of $100 worth of monthly income free and clear of any burden.
asciilifeform: where i live, that buys slightly less than two full 'standard' tanks of petrol.
asciilifeform: that is, a week of my commute, not counting toll gates or machine wear.
mircea_popescu: it buys even less than a lolipop on a comet, so what of it ?
mircea_popescu: don't try to live on comets.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In this part of USia, $100 could buy 2 tanks with $20 left over
mircea_popescu: in romania it's just about ONE tank.
mircea_popescu: little over i guess.
asciilifeform picked a uniquely bad example, and realized
mircea_popescu: blowjobs better example.
mircea_popescu: $15 going rate here.
mircea_popescu: http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/kimkgif.gif << next we're gonna learn kim came to the us on a hb1 visa.
asciilifeform not an expert on the economics of this, but wonders how the cost relates to the 'unit cost' - that is, what it costs to house and feed a typical vendor.
JuliaTourianski: so change direction from blowjobs, I wanted to ask your thought on this "freedom" we're all obsessed with. i like this critique: "To coerce a man is to deprive him of freedom - freedom from what? Almost every moralist in human history has praised freedom. Like happiness and goodness, like nature and reality, it is a term whose meaning is so porous that there is little interpretation that it seems able to resist"
JuliaTourianski: the entire thing feels like a feel-good distraction from actual attainable action.
asciilifeform: which 'thing' ?
JuliaTourianski: the goal of freedom
asciilifeform: !s freedom
mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski let's take an oblique tack. forget coercing a man. what is coercing a woman ?
asciilifeform: not much of obsession around here.
JuliaTourianski: excatly. which is why i bother ask it here
mircea_popescu: well so answer lol
JuliaTourianski: don't be fecisious
asciilifeform screams, runs away
mircea_popescu: whadda ya mean ?
JuliaTourianski: "The doctrine that maintains that what I cannot have I must teach myself not to desire, that a desire eliminated, or successfully resisted, is as good as a desire satisfied, is a sublime, but, it seems to me, unmistakable, form of the doctrine of sour grapes: what I cannot be sure of, I cannot truly want. This makes it clear why the definition of negative liberty as the ability to do what one wishes - which is, in e
JuliaTourianski: will not do. If I find that I am able to do little or nothing of what I wish, I need only contract or extinguish my wishes, and I am made free. If the tyrant (or 'hidden persuader') manages to condition his subjects (or customers) into losing their original wishes and embracing ('internalising')
asciilifeform: facetious?
JuliaTourianski: the form of life he has invented for them, he will, on this definition, have succeeded in liberating them. He will, no doubt, have made them feel free - as Epictetus feels freer than his master (and the proverbial good man is said to feel happy on the rack). But what he has created is the very antithesis of political freedom
mircea_popescu: mebbe use a pastebin next time.
JuliaTourianski: meh i dunno. i'm trying to gage some thought that will surprise me maybe
JuliaTourianski: high hopes for mircea
asciilifeform: JuliaTourianski: try this on for size:
mircea_popescu: well so far we're at the point where we try to find out what you mean by words.
asciilifeform: !s sleep ad libitum
BingoBoingo finds it more useful to consider freedom a conditional
JuliaTourianski: alright I'll be super direct: is freedom possible? and if so, what is it?
mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski for "it" to "be" something you're making some presumptions. is the color pink possible ? if so, what is it ?
mircea_popescu: if you define it as em with wavelength so and so, then yes.
mircea_popescu: otherwise... depends, pls to explain what you mean.
JuliaTourianski: actually i am not making presumptions at all. I am admitting to be color blind here
BingoBoingo also thinks the F-word is too tainted by abuse to be useful on its own.
mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski lol you ever read how sussman was englightened ?
mircea_popescu: In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
mircea_popescu: "What are you doing?", asked Minsky.
mircea_popescu: "I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-tac-toe", Sussman replied.
mircea_popescu: "Why is the net wired randomly?", asked Minsky.
mircea_popescu: "I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play", Sussman said.
mircea_popescu: Minsky then shut his eyes.
mircea_popescu: "Why do you close your eyes?" Sussman asked his teacher.
asciilifeform: inevitably modern discussions of 'freedom' reveal themselves as having the purpose of convincing a chump that the entire concept, but specifically his wishes to not be a zoo animal, is delusional and he 'is bad and should feel bad'
mircea_popescu: "So that the room will be empty."
mircea_popescu: At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.
assbot: Some AI Koans
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo by exception from the general rule, i actually wanted this one in teh record.
asciilifeform: this must be at least the 7th time sussman and his neural net pop up here.
BingoBoingo: Sure, figured I'd like the source for the sake of the rest of the stories
mircea_popescu: im a sucker for it, what can i say.
BingoBoingo: !s sussman
asciilifeform: !s minsky
mircea_popescu: !s minski
JuliaTourianski: asciilifeform now that's presumptuous...even though I agree
JuliaTourianski: better questions
JuliaTourianski: is the discussion of freedom even important or relevant anymore
mircea_popescu: no discussion is either important or ever relevant if the discussers don't know what they mean by words.
asciilifeform: very important and relevant - to the zookeper - he is quite interested in making sure that it stays as it traditionally tends to be, useless and irrelevant.
JuliaTourianski: what do i need to clairfy for you mircea
mircea_popescu: you can start with coercion.,
JuliaTourianski: I quoted something, so I'd have to ask mr. berlin what he means
mircea_popescu: well yes, i guess you should. much like we can't use unsigned patches for any reason, you can't use undefined jumbles for any thinking.
mircea_popescu: generally writers do readers the courtesy of defining stuff tho.
JuliaTourianski: i think he means interference from governing bodies
asciilifeform: then goes the other question, is 'king hunger' a governing body?
JuliaTourianski: "One is that all coercion is, in so far as it frustrates human desires, bad as such, although it may have to be applied to prevent other, greater evils; while non-interference, which is the opposite of coercion, is good as such, although it is not the only good."
mircea_popescu: so how would education work in this paradigm ?
JuliaTourianski: +asciilifeform yeah, i've been thinking about that.
asciilifeform: ^ 'king hunger'
mircea_popescu: because that happens to be both the source and the point of coercion in practice.
asciilifeform: see also king gravity, king thermodynamics, etc.
asciilifeform: (king hunger is actually just an affiliate duke under king thermo)
JuliaTourianski: Dostoyevsky said: "boots are superior to Pushkin" so what is freedom? freedom to starve of freeze in the cold? or freedom to be warm and fed under rule
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's come full circle, by now the unruly stupid children of yesteryear are forming pseudophylosophyc systems to justify their sillyness.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'В мире есть царь: этот царь беспощаден, Голод названье ему.' ( http://www.stihi-rus.ru/1/Nekrasov/30.htm )
JuliaTourianski: both positive and negative liberty is used very well by every side of power
mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski let's look through all this by using a model of yourself as a little girl.
mircea_popescu: you are a little girl growing up in the house of your parents, which is all nice and good.
JuliaTourianski: pleasant thoughts from you as always
mircea_popescu: you get to be 16. at this point you figure - miuch like that chick in wuthering heights or whichever had the 7 sisters - you have about as much need of fucking as you have of someone sticking his finger up your nose.
mircea_popescu: this notwithstanding, a strange man comes, takes you away, puts you in a new place and makes you pregnant.
mircea_popescu: this is obviously coercitive, on the part of said man.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, you get over it, and the wound heals like any wound, and now you have children, which of course you love, being so wired to do.
mircea_popescu: but now they are 16, and a man comes and takes them to war, where they get shot and die.
mircea_popescu: this, obviously, also coercitive.
mircea_popescu: the alternative being, of course, that you could be an old maid, in which case the same children would be... just as equally dead.
mircea_popescu: or else, that you'd have unbearable brats the sort that grow up to be isaiah berlin and fill the world with the idiocy of their parareasonings as to why nobody ever needs to grow the fuck up already.
mircea_popescu: then the whole ecosystem collapses under their weight ; rocks fall, everyone dies ; the mongols come to rape the lot.
mircea_popescu: coercion, wtf do you mean coercion ? you're sitting on a chair right now, your but's coerced.
JuliaTourianski: i think him and you agree on more than you think
mircea_popescu: of course we do.
JuliaTourianski: "If I save myself from an adversary by retreating indoors and locking every entrance and exit, I may remain freer than if I had been captured by him, but am I freer than if I had defeated or captured him? If I go too far, contract myself into too small a space, I shall suffocate and die. The logical culmination of the process of destroying everything through which I can possibly be wounded is suicide. While I exist
mircea_popescu: !up berndj
JuliaTourianski: I can never be wholly secure. Total liberation in this sense (as Schopenhauer correctly perceived) is conferred only by death.28
berndj: JuliaTourianski, do you know the book _48 laws of power_? your "sour grapes" comment reminded me, there's rule 36: Disdain things you cannot have: ignoring them is the best revenge
JuliaTourianski: berndj i have lately...been a master of this.
JuliaTourianski: i do know the book but i have yet to tread it
undata: I'm skeptical anyone who ever read a book called "48 Laws of Power" ever had any
JuliaTourianski: worth it?
berndj: totally!
undata: or if they did, it must've been the only thing on the toilet
berndj: lol undata many of its pages were indeed read on the toilet
JuliaTourianski: the who question on non-agression is interesting too
JuliaTourianski: i said it was flawed in a mailing list and i got some very insulted ancaps on my case
mircea_popescu: !up Mobuis
Mobuis: Thank you.
JuliaTourianski: Woman and man at a bar. They may or may not be flirting...each may interpret their interaction differently. Man grabs woman's ass. Woman punches man in face. Has there been a violation of the non-aggression principle? What if the woman liked it or wanted it, but felt embarrassed of her urges due to the public setting and retaliated in a way she felt redeemable. Or maybe she was abused as a child and the act de
JuliaTourianski: We can't know. So who aggressed against who? Should the man have asked to grab her ass first...well, that would contradict the entire concept of the mutual thrill of ass grabbing.
mircea_popescu: o wait, english speakers actually know that exists ?
mircea_popescu: jesus it must suck.
danielpbarron: try asking an "ancap" if you have the right to beat your own kids/wives/slaves on your own property
mircea_popescu: what's the location got to do with it !?
assbot: Issue 7143: get_payload(decode=True) eats last newline in base64 encoded payload - Python tracker
JuliaTourianski: mircea_popescu did you run a porn site
berndj: mircea_popescu, presumably on a road, the owner of the road might require you to sign a contract that forbids beating your kids
mircea_popescu: jurov ahahaha o god help us. that is like a canonical example of evil.
mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski dja mea nthe 4chan clone ?
mircea_popescu: berndj can he now ?
berndj: can who now what?
mircea_popescu: can some dude owning a road require me anything.
JuliaTourianski: danielpbarron most would sa no because NAP
mircea_popescu: ;;ud nap
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nap | nap. 3 hours of sleep or less. Zerostar took a nap from 2pm to 5pm. by GheTTo January 08, ... My roommate just left for class, so I think I'm going to take a nap.
JuliaTourianski: mircea_popescu so did u
mircea_popescu: so what's this nap ?
RagnarDanneskjol: she asks about pron likely b/c forum muppets derping about your random erotic art posts on 'lema
JuliaTourianski: what kind of porn was it
BingoBoingo: Oh no, RagnarDanneskjol MP once ran a chan site. Full of people posting n00dz
JuliaTourianski: i may break my abstinence tonight if this website still exists
BingoBoingo: Site was polimedia.us/dtng
undata: mircea_popescu: a religious notion that anarchists suppose would bring about peace on earth and good will towards men
undata: the non-aggression principle
mircea_popescu: oh, that.
mircea_popescu: what, the "i have no balls" tag was taken ?
BingoBoingo: Yeah, the *archists would reintroduce aggression
BingoBoingo: There's always going to be a *archy
undata: BingoBoingo: but... read this blog post about how mean it is
mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski which webiste ? dtng was basically... a chan. you know, random people posting whatever.
mircea_popescu: if i recall there was a lengthy thread of naked women in star wars paraphenalia
mircea_popescu: weird shit like that.
BingoBoingo: undata: Of course *archy is mean. Just avoid the robokleptarchy
JuliaTourianski: dissapointing
undata: LOOOL
RagnarDanneskjol: did we just miss a golden opportunity to have miss T. break this abstinence streak?
assbot: julia tourianski - Google Search
BingoBoingo wonders what shitgnome introduced "non-aggression" into ananrchy. With the persistence of the *archy it would seem that aggression would be necessary in one's own defense.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i;ll tell you how that went. dudes for some reason perceive the need to "sell" it, and since it's obvious that you can't sell something to someone that the someone;d perceive as a "worse" alternative, then necessarily it must be made so that anarchy is not more painful to the average derp than you know, the 1980s in the us.
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding that the only possible point to even having anarchy in the first place is to render the sorts of idiots that'd fall for it.
undata: "Those guys over there are organizing! Someone should stop them! But how?"
BingoBoingo: To think that 100 years ago anarchist aggression started a conflict among the euroarchists
mircea_popescu: before being coopted by the socialists, the russian revolution was pure anarchism.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, the us was quite a different beast before being coopted by the socialists to.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mahno's or more generally?
mircea_popescu: it's funny, this particular bromilliad, sometimes catches root on a tree, then proceds to derp all about how you know, the purpose of the tree is it!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more generally.
mircea_popescu: even stalin was (and roughly stayed) an anarchist.
mircea_popescu: the purpose of trees, to hear the bromeliaceae tell it, is to one day support one! and in fact all life on earth evolves towards that peak of creation, a parasite plant of little notice.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41650 @ 0.00044509 = 18.538 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform merely consider the fact that the politbureau did not customarily seek to include the general opinion of the populace. not exactly socialism, this, is it ?
mircea_popescu: the chinese pretend themselves communists, but really... the us is more advanced on the socialist path than they are.
asciilifeform: usa just solved the 'problem' of popular opinion in a rather different way.
joecool: distraction?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but at least the usian populace gets to pick which butt to be pictured bare.
mircea_popescu: the soviets had no equivalent input in the workings of pravda.
asciilifeform: really? i don't recall being asked - which butt.
mircea_popescu: you personally ? well no, that's not teh socialist way.
mircea_popescu: there's metrics, yo.
chetty: but those are all made up
mircea_popescu: this entire sign things stuff we do is exactly antisocialist.
asciilifeform: in usa, they not only had better steel and semiconductors, back in the day, they also had better chumpatronics.
asciilifeform: which was the undoing.
asciilifeform: see also limonov's discussion re: 'hard' vs 'soft' totalitarianisms
joecool: <mircea_popescu> even stalin was (and roughly stayed) an anarchist. < would you expound on this a bit? I have never seen that viewpoint expressed
asciilifeform: 'hard' is when you end up needing to physically restrain people, actually shoot dissenters, etc.
mircea_popescu: joecool well, consider his early life. guy robbed banks and generally lived as an outlaw.
asciilifeform: 'soft' - when the entire concept of meaningful resistance becomes a hard problem
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.00044868 = 7.1789 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: joecool on what grounds would you identify pre-1930 stalin as a socialist ?
joecool: mircea_popescu: ah so personally he ran his life as such is what you mean, not his government so much?
mircea_popescu: wait a second. what part of the "you folks are like blind kittens" is socialist, iyo ?
mircea_popescu: "i know better than you lot, you lot are stupid, not least of all for being a lot in the first place".
mircea_popescu: does this sound a lot like socialism to you ?
joecool: mircea_popescu: not thinking it was socialism, I just didn't consider it anarchism
mircea_popescu: he ran his government exactly like you'd expect a lifetime anarchist war hero to run a government.
mircea_popescu: broz tito did exactly the same thing.
asciilifeform: where are the mythical 'actual socialists' - and what is even the point of looking for them.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i linked a youtube of a pirvulescu attack on ceausescu.
assbot: I don't care if you landed a spacecraft on a comet, your shirt is sexist and ostracizing | The Verge
mircea_popescu: that was exactly "career socialist vs anarchist that overtook the party" moment.
undata: apparently that guy's shirt is why women don't "science"
mircea_popescu: undata not sure why anyone cares what Chris Plante & Arielle Duhaime-Ross have to say on any topic.
mircea_popescu: they're the reason nobody reads the verge.
undata: mircea_popescu: representative of opinions you hear in Portland quite often
mircea_popescu: except i don't. :)
undata: ha, right.
mircea_popescu: * at that moment, undata was enlightened * lol
mircea_popescu: anyway, to be noted that the european space agency did it. the us relevancy, like the mass of the comet, withering away by the minute.
mircea_popescu recalls the eu space agency early on, such a risible attempt.
mircea_popescu: you know, back when the euro "didn't have a chance", and like the canadian dollar, traded under the usd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's one for ya : a google for McIlroy produces a solid pages of derpage about some random kid playing golf.
mircea_popescu: i have a lot of sympathy for kids trying to piece together some shard of understanding out of isaiah berlin, rory mcilroy and ronald mcdonald.
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/345DS4X.txt )
assbot: Beirut Cops Can’t Tell Hipsters From Jihadis -- NYMag
mircea_popescu: moreso than for their parents, trying to do the same out of marx, ziggler, carnegey and whatever other fitness trainers and pop-philosophers the almanacs would print.
assbot: Isis declares new currency will be circulated in its bid to establish caliphate across Syria and Iraq - Middle East - World - The Independent
cazalla: gernika, are you trying to get me arrested for promoting ISIS?
asciilifeform: nah, for promoting gold.
mircea_popescu: lol that bad is it ?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, they kicked down the door of one muslim family for having a plastic sword so yeah
BingoBoingo: Eh, I'll write an ISIS coin article then.
cazalla: gernika, i can't say i'm that interested in promoting altcoins but thanks for the tip
gernika: cazalla are gold and silver altcoins?
gernika: Just seems to run contrary to the usgovmedia claim that ISIS is using bitcoin.
cazalla: gernika, we have bitcoin so yeah, at least personally
mircea_popescu: they've not actually made that claim, have they ?
mircea_popescu: other than gossip
gernika: mircea_popescu you're right - the claim is that it *could* be used by them I suppose.
cazalla: some media claimed so but it was just an ISIS fansite requesting bitcoin donations to pay for hosting
mircea_popescu: clearly terrorist internet funbux then.
asciilifeform: they'd need to find a way to replace ecdsa with an equivalent of caesar's cipher first.
asciilifeform: (who was it who had a piece on how supposed 'enemies of usa' are required, by the laws of god himself, to use idiotically childlike crypto? was it mircea_popescu ?)
assbot: The danger of homebrew crypto pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform: 'signed by' ?
jurov: there will be sigs from other people
asciilifeform: i'd suggest showing original patch author's sig also
jurov: also, it will be hyperlinked to messages in archive
jurov: yes, that will be link from "submitted by"
mircea_popescu: o hey nice!
asciilifeform: (one could hypothetically have a patch 'submitted by' mr x but 'signed by' mr y
jurov: the original singature
asciilifeform: or does 'submitted by' always refer to original sig
jurov: mhm ok
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that anything needs a 1st signature to even be sumitted is not abad design decision
mircea_popescu: well yeah, obviously. right jurov ?
jurov: yes, without 1st sig it won't appear there
jurov: also, ascii as right pentester scattered multiple dots in the filename so it got shortened
jurov: it's incredible how he happened to hit multiple bugs at once
mircea_popescu: maybe he knew what he was doing ?
mircea_popescu: jurov incidentally, gimme the short version, how do i submit to this thing ?
asciilifeform: jurov: i got yet another copy of 'patch' in email. i presume you are turning the knobs as we speak?
jurov: can;'t get much shorter
asciilifeform: !up ml.therealbitcoin.org
asciilifeform: ;;isup ml.therealbitcoin.org
gribble: ml.therealbitcoin.org is down
mircea_popescu: yeah did it just die ?
jurov: therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev
jurov: sry ml. is for internal use only
asciilifeform: someone (who read it!) try signing my patch ?
asciilifeform: see if displays.
mircea_popescu: jurov specifically, is there any way for me to submit signature comments ?
jurov: reply to the thread?
asciilifeform: jurov: how would he (or anyone else) submit a detached sig meant to go with a particular patch ?
asciilifeform: in such a way that it displays under 'signed by'
jurov: by using the file name
mircea_popescu: "Recommended process is to pipe the signed message text directly to mailx or similar client without ambitions." ahahaha gotta love jurov.
jurov: like
asciilifeform: jurov: wouldn't this result in duplicates ?
mircea_popescu: jurov but suppose i wish to say "reviewed X part ; Y part outside of my comprehension". can not be done ?
asciilifeform does not ever want to read duplicates
jurov: gpg -b bitcoin-asciilifeform_a6ada6bb9cebb9540df1fda3465d942a4631d202.2-https_snipsnip.patch
jurov: it will make blablabla...hexporn.patch.sig
jurov: send this file under this name as attachment
mircea_popescu: so basically, the correct approach here would have been for ascii to make a patch for each individual diff ?
jurov: it pairs the sig to the patch by name
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have an idea here. if this actually plays out, you would say to me: 'i will not sign X. because i grok X.a but not X.b. please split into two, and i shall sign X.a, or go on to explain to me precisely how X.b works.'
jurov: you mean individual hunks?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but what if you communicating with me is impractical ? because say, you're dead.
mircea_popescu: jurov yes.
asciilifeform: well, when i'm dead, someone else (e.g. you) can cut X into X.a and X.b
mircea_popescu: well no, because then all the history is lost.
jurov: mircea_popescu: if stan is dead you'll split it yourself and resend with your sigs
asciilifeform: X.b will sit, as an orphan, inside a comment thread, until the fateful day that someone picks it up, and signs it, and convinces others to.
mircea_popescu: and what of the 500 orher dead people that signed his ?
asciilifeform: aha what jurov said
jurov: i dunno how it can be cryptographically linked
asciilifeform: eventually all signatures belong to the dead.
mircea_popescu: so for this reason, all patches must be mononuclear ?
asciilifeform: that was my original suggestion.
asciilifeform: that a patch, a particular one, is a particular identifiable 'thing.'
mircea_popescu: so what happened to the suggestion ?
asciilifeform: e.g., 'here we burn gavin's broadcaster out with hot iron.'
asciilifeform: 'here we remove https.'
jurov: which suggestion?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform his.
mircea_popescu: oops. jurov asciilifeform's.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39845 @ 0.00045202 = 18.0107 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: to be clear, my suggestion concerned how to write patches.
mircea_popescu: anyway, even if they are all mononuclear, there's still semantic value to be had. suppose i wish to say "have read and understood this to do what it says ; have not tested it in fact".
mircea_popescu: should this be verboten, and all or nothing commitment upon signer ?
asciilifeform: this was actually a point i brought up when mircea_popescu said 'one day you shall earn bread by signing code' or something to that effect
jurov: for thi there's the mailman archive
asciilifeform: my question was, that day, 'sign under what'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i know.
jurov: otherwise i hve no idea how to put such semantic metainfo in the db
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you do appreciate the following point : up until and in any case unless one actually had to put his own signature, these matters never have been seriously considered by asnyone.
mircea_popescu: so in that sense, great progress.
asciilifeform: these matters were considered by engineers since hammurabi.
jurov: maybe you want to rate the patch? lol
mircea_popescu: jurov im not even sure it should be there.
jurov: ;;rate -1 sketchy
gribble: Error: 'sketchy' is not a valid integer.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i mean specifically about patches to foss.
mircea_popescu: or for any other system where stuff can be changed / "contributed" by "nobody". but anyway, we digress.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do me the courtesy and resubmit as mono patches and then the new ones can win the longer sigchain race with the original one ?
asciilifeform: mono patches?
mircea_popescu: 1 change per patch.
asciilifeform: 1 change as in, 1 line?
jurov: well, the https one is pretty compact
mircea_popescu: shit the hard questions you ask.
asciilifeform is a little confused here
mircea_popescu: i dunno ;/
jurov: if it will be shorter, it could not compilke
mircea_popescu: what should "one" mean in this fortran ?
asciilifeform: when i originally suggested 'one change', it was a semantic thing
asciilifeform: as in, 'and here we remove the nuclear detonator'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform myeah.
asciilifeform: rather than 'one line of code' (try reading the result!) or somesuch.
mircea_popescu: jurov seems the site needs the extension of a "patch notes" clickable field ?
asciilifeform: in that respect, all of the patches i (and the 2 other fellows) offered so far, are monolithic.
mircea_popescu: and similarly, signatures get a "sig notes" following them, like signed by 01ABFFC7(n) 02ABFFC7(n) etc
jurov: yes, it's in pipeline
mircea_popescu: seems to me this'd resolve all outstanding problems.
asciilifeform: so what will be the convention for submitting 'patch note with sig' ?
mircea_popescu: as to the meaning ?
jurov: put clearsigned note into email body
asciilifeform: also i don't remember if i reminded anyone of this, but unix 'patch' utility is rather braindead.
jurov: or first att
asciilifeform: in that, for example, all of the patches submitted so far will break if one is removed from the chain.
jurov: and detached sig as second att
asciilifeform: (line number idiocy)
mircea_popescu: jurov sample code for mailx in the help file would help a great deal.
mircea_popescu: i know this from the mpex faq days.
jurov: mircea_popescu: gpg --clearsign | mailx btc-dev@therealbitcoin.org
jurov: this needs explicit mention?
mircea_popescu: jurov this handles the attachment scheme you wish to use ?
jurov: oh that, mailx does not handle attachments
asciilifeform: jurov: this is not a working example
mircea_popescu: well if mailx doesn'tdo attachments then why do you suggest people use it to mail you attachments lol.
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 410.23, Best ask: 410.66, Bid-ask spread: 0.43000, Last trade: 410.2, 24 hour volume: 49225.83783296, 24 hour low: 381.55, 24 hour high: 453.92, 24 hour vwap: 419.932867651
jurov: i suggested it for text.. but yes it's dumb
jurov: apparently it actually does with uuencode..okay another todo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72350 @ 0.00045058 = 32.5995 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'd say this is progressing nicely.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22574 @ 0.0004444 = 10.0319 BTC [-]
nubbins`: i must not derp. derping is the mind-killer.
nubbins`: derping is the little stupidity that leads to total insolvency
mircea_popescu: lol if this cult thing catches on we can even have derpfessions. "have you derped my son ?"
nubbins`: i will face my derp
nubbins`: i will permit it to pass over me and through me
mircea_popescu: there could be a new disease, the derpes...
nubbins`: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
nubbins`: derpes simplex
nubbins`: my actual sides
mircea_popescu: as in, "kissing Arielle Duhaime-Ross will give you herpes, but reading her inanity in the verge will give you derpes"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wait, what ?!
BingoBoingo: Watch our for the monkeys with Derpes B
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: misprint. they fired the monkey.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you mean derpes c++ ?
asciilifeform: it was 'osama' originally.
nubbins`: <jurov> EATS THE TRAILING NEWLINE <<< fwiw deeds eats the trailing \n
nubbins`: srsly, won't verify with it
jurov: nubbins` after the signature?
ben_vulpes: wow did you assholes poop out 1600 lines today?
jurov: interesting
nubbins`: !s deed utils
mircea_popescu: ;;google wasn't me
gribble: Shaggy - It Wasn't Me - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv5fqunQ_4I>; It Wasn't Me - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Wasn't_Me>; It Wasn't Me Lyrics Shaggy - Genius: <http://rap.genius.com/Shaggy-it-wasnt-me-lyrics>
jurov: ohai ben_vulpes
jurov: we aren;'t done yet
ben_vulpes: heyo jurov mailthing still ongoing saga?
assbot: Logged on 03-11-2014 17:23:14; nubbins`: tool for predicting deed ID of clearsigned file: http://pastebin.com/Ls76h1kd
nubbins`: line 11
jurov: this ended up py base64 decoder bug... deeds don't do anything w/base64 i hope
nubbins`: i grab the base64 deed via json when verifying
nubbins`: but it's not necessary to b64 anything
jurov: lol, so upgrade to py 2.7 then
ben_vulpes: hah you guys got nubbins` programming?
nubbins`: 5 years in the trenches, baby
ben_vulpes: (again)?
nubbins`: no. never again.
nubbins`: but try as i may, some parts of my old brain just won't reformat
mircea_popescu: coding is like buttsex, can be enjoyable if well paced.
nubbins`: jurov fwiw some (most?) text editors append a \n at the end of text files
nubbins`: i know pico does
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also in the permanent deformations of the respective organs.
jurov: nubbins`: but they usually show it (you can move to the new line)
mircea_popescu: that's a myth.
jurov: vim sees '\\\n' but doesn't show it
mircea_popescu: i bet you you can't pikc out butt virgins in a line-up.
asciilifeform can only speak for the programming
mircea_popescu: not unless the actual women open up.
nubbins`: jurov true. upon reopening the file it's there
nubbins`: but...
nubbins`: how does one save a text file that doesn't end in \n?
nubbins`: not so easy
ben_vulpes: so does the patchpusher work or not?
mircea_popescu: prototype works, more stuff to be added.
nubbins`: truthfully i wonder if deedbot shouldn't be stripping the trailing \n
nubbins`: i don't know ;/
mircea_popescu: maybe darcs should strip the trailing \n then ?
nubbins`: why in the fuck do text editors add it in the first place?
nubbins`: mildly amusing that this is the most difficult part of all this stuff, in the meantime
undata: nubbins`: some farty unix convention
assbot: history - Why should files end with a newline? - Stack Overflow
nubbins`: i assumed it was so if you spat the file out, the bash prompt would be on a new line
undata: everyone in that thread is just saying that they're "supposed to"
mircea_popescu: nubbins` im pretty sure that's what it is.
nubbins`: well i can see what they mean
nubbins`: you dirty a line, you provide a clean one to the next guy
asciilifeform: !s postel's law
nubbins`: so maybe deedbot shouldn't be stripping the \n at eof
asciilifeform not enamoured with postel's law
nubbins`: punkman ^
assbot: Definitions
mircea_popescu: !up hank_
asciilifeform: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2826980/Winston-Churchill-s-bid-nuke-Russia-win-Cold-War-uncovered-secret-FBI-files.html << ideal example of 'crank bait' method. perfectly factual allegation, regarded as nearly hundred percent proven by ru historians for decades. 'smoking gun' finally out. what does lizard hitler do? orders it printed in 'daily mail.'
assbot: Winston Churchill's 'bid to nuke Russia' to win Cold War uncovered | Daily Mail Online
asciilifeform: 'what kind of fool would believe document from 'daily mail' ?'
mircea_popescu: the romanian epxression is, "perfidul albion"
mircea_popescu: anyway, nothing remarkable there. it's to be used like any other thing.
asciilifeform: as a 'zoologist' of these, can't help but notice the extraordinarily-obvious specimen in the wild.
assbot: CryptoCoinsNews: Disable Your Adblocker! | Qntra.net
mircea_popescu: !s David Parker
assbot: US military considers sending combat troops to battle Isis forces in Iraq | US news | The Guardian
undata: I guess Iraq is the ditch we want to die in
ben_vulpes: double down
ben_vulpes: more shellshock in the populace
ben_vulpes: actually probably less cuz drones, n'est?
assbot: Eric Frein to face terrorism charges over fatal Pennsylvania police ambush | US news | The Guardian
cazalla: mircea_popescu, prolly a fake name, i've searched and searched and there is nothing on this guy
undata: ben_vulpes: this us heading back in with marines
undata: *is us
mircea_popescu: cazalla yeah, it's a fake name.
mircea_popescu: prolly the gaw dude himself.
mircea_popescu: "Charge based on letter by Frein calling for revolution" << :D
undata: ben_vulpes: the classic "just the tip" maneuver
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Seemed inevitable
mircea_popescu: undata the funny part is, the us got so fucking raped in iraq it's hard to describe. now they want to go for round two ?
mircea_popescu: it's impractical, 2000s us could borrow the 50trn they used. 2015s us can not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: remaining u.s. physical industry is 99% iraq-based (that is, hardware whose inventory must be churned in some iraq or other.)
asciilifeform: so, gotta churn inventory.
mircea_popescu: it's not inventory unless you can replace it.
mircea_popescu: to make it perfectly clear : any sunk cruiser reduces the total count of cruisers the us will ever have by 1.
mircea_popescu: every downed plane is downed for good.
asciilifeform: those who order the churn, have no concept that there will not be replacement ordered.
mircea_popescu: perpahs.
mircea_popescu: anyway, if anyone has a direct interest in the welfare of the poor grunts involved, like loved ones or w/e :
assbot: So much for speculation about no more 10-yr deals. Heyman says MIA taking w/Stanton about a 12-yr, $300 mil deal. How will they afford it?
mircea_popescu: the coming iraq campaign will be the first one the us soldiers will not have enough boots and shit. maybe best enlist for something else.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00044459 = 12.6708 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not the first. i vaguely recall '1 flak jacket for 3 men' in the last one
asciilifeform: mats_cd03 ^^ ?
undata: mircea_popescu: they didn't even have enough armor, etc., last time
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform flak jackets != boots.
mircea_popescu: yes, trhey were short materiel.
mircea_popescu: this time they will be short toilet paper and toothpaste.
BingoBoingo: I recall they were short on toilet paper and toothpaste last time. I recall solicitations for "care packages" consisting of basic necessities when I was at school.
asciilifeform: saw this, yes
asciilifeform: the one that always got me was the donation box for 'books'
asciilifeform: yes, generic 'books.'
asciilifeform: brought to mind the possibility that these were to be used in lieu of toilet paper.
mircea_popescu: wouldn't that come with a "no bibles please" ?
asciilifeform: they get those from usg.
BingoBoingo: They really do
mircea_popescu: as in, too smooth for use.
asciilifeform: and printed on telephone book paper.
mircea_popescu: should be funny to see when the first supposed army uniot goes native.
mircea_popescu: happened to the late romans a whole heck of a lot more than they ever cared to admit
undata: I can't rub two coherent thoughts together that make going back to Iraq a good idea.
undata: mass delusion?
BingoBoingo: I thought that was linked here not too long ago, except they went native at their own station.
mircea_popescu: in fact, it was the premier driver behind the eventual move to mercenaries, something otherwise politically incomprehensible for today's curious student.
undata: so this islamic state consolidates parts of the middle east? that's probably a great thing.
mircea_popescu: but the politicos of the time were caught in the very real vice of "well, rome's poor or the vandals, about as trustworthy"
mircea_popescu: undata not for local women.
asciilifeform: this is why no going native.
undata: mircea_popescu: certainly not. neither is the current circumstance though
asciilifeform: who the hell wants to go native - there.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform every young man.
asciilifeform: american?
mircea_popescu: undata women are principally distinguished by a preference for the shit they know.
mircea_popescu: that's actually what womanhood MEANS.
undata: hm.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure. think about it : be the gods of their age group ? instead of going home to hear a stupid bitchfest, stay with the people where rape is something you're supposed to do ?
mircea_popescu: why were they in the army in the first place,. to police reddit ?
asciilifeform: to get their teeth done.
undata: if we see IS as an actual threat, we really must be in sore shape.
mircea_popescu: notice that in a group of 100k idiots, you may end up with a subgroup of 100 or 10 idiots of any particular braindamage you wish.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> to get their teeth done. << One cousin enlisted for this reason. Now afraid of dentists.
mircea_popescu: i can readily see numerous angles through which retiring from the us military to baghdad rather than kansas is preferable to the 19 yo mind.
mircea_popescu: really, the lucky aspect for the us army officers is that the arabs don't bother to learn english. otherwise, the sheer cultural pressure would probably make "boots on ground" untenable.
asciilifeform: the phase transition may be the point where we leave 'desertion means no more toilet paper' and move to 'desertion means access to toilet paper.'
mircea_popescu: it's already "desertion means leaving a world that you don't understand" and move to "desertion means joining a world you easily do"
asciilifeform: (or more fantastic example - ice cream. i have it on good authority that many american units in iraq were supplied even with it.)
mircea_popescu: lol why wouldn't they be ?!
asciilifeform: because wtf.
mircea_popescu: icecream has been a part of rations since vietnam
asciilifeform: somebody wake up mats_cd03.
asciilifeform: or perhaps he is already being shaved and fitted with new uniform for the next gig.
BingoBoingo recalls friend telling stories that when the was in the Infantry every few weeks he'd have to watch the Airforce at his base have friendly BBQ's with thier Afghans
undata: a brother of a friend was in fallujah; I've heard a few of his stories, and they weren't about iced cream.
undata: why "IS"? I'm sure he and others clearing houses of everything that moved didn't help.
BingoBoingo: The spectrum of US Armed forces experiences this past decade is a wide one. The cousin nao afraid of dentist in his whole time enlisted in the marines was either in the US or on a boat.
BingoBoingo: Well, ISI* probably because 'Murica wasn't as scary as Saddam, so Pro Idiotas had room
BingoBoingo: And eventually after some embarrassment they have less ideas and America leaves, then ??? ISIL
BingoBoingo: Pretty much the story of Los Zetas, but in reverse
mircea_popescu: something like that. woman previously married to some hard drinking bozo meets a phthisc young man who's a "student" whatever that may mean. the three quarrel, the kid ends up killing the man, talks the woman up a storm then... leaves ?
mircea_popescu: she's too horny to go to bed so she fucks a coupla passing bums, with disastrous effects.
BingoBoingo: Los Zetas started as a bunch of experts, but finite hit points and now the human shields are in charge and Nuevo Laredo can't have a nice hooker district anymore
assbot: The West's self-licking ice cream cones - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
mircea_popescu: somewhat related.
mircea_popescu: As far as I am aware, the phrase came into usage among knowing observers of the Vietnam War. A self-licking ice cream cone is a programme or policy that costs money and resources, generating a great deal of activity; produces indicators of its own success, preferably quantitative; but does not actually achieve its announced goals. Indeed, a proper self-licking cone undermines the very purposes for which it was created,
mircea_popescu: while at the same time sucking in ever more resources from worthy and effective activities.
cazalla: mircea_popescu: icecream has been a part of rations since vietnam <<< lt dan, icecream!
asciilifeform: self-licking ice cream cone << i learned the phrase from mr. mold, who used it to describe u.s. academia.
mircea_popescu: More targets meant more bombing, and more bombing meant a bigger role for the USAF. The result was more budget, more planes, and career advancement for all concerned.
mircea_popescu: The only problem was that the bombing was helping lose the war. Predictably, the peasants turned against Saigon, leading to the introduction of US ground forces in 1965. Like the “body count”, the number of “structures” destroyed had no relation to actually winning the war. It was an indicator of organisational “success” wholly divorced from reality, and from the values that the organisation was supposed to
mircea_popescu: be serving. The USAF was killing the very peasants it was there to save from communism.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the story of iraq v1 and v2, for that matter.
mircea_popescu: a bureaucracy is history-less, in that it is incapable of learning from its mistakes, just like amoeba is incapable of learning writing.
mircea_popescu: it will follow the sugar gradient and that's all it does.
nubbins`: dat silkscreened photograph
mircea_popescu: nubbins` how much did that run cost ?
mircea_popescu: o nm, it's not a book, it's a poster.
nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/04rtgLI.jpg unsuccessful attempt w/ stochastic dots
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67250 @ 0.00043619 = 29.3338 BTC [-] {3}
BingoBoingo remembers publishing a poetry book at a ninety something percent loss. -ISBN-(sample copies)+(~7 dollars in ebook revenue from Austrialia) = Loss, I was enlightened, also a week later on lithium
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo how many sales is 7 bux ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: 20 or so I believe. I think on ebooks I got 30%. "Self" publishing is a racket
BingoBoingo: But I was young, dumb, and in grad school pt. 1
mircea_popescu: unless you actually self publish. asylum ended up costing about 1.40 per copy, printfiles -> distributor warehouse.
BingoBoingo: Yeah. In the aftermath I did the math on, "What if I actually had something worth publishing on tree cadavers"
mircea_popescu: basically, everywhere guis are a racket.
mircea_popescu: when one approaches you with the proposition of "making things easy" what he means is, your wallet. easier to carry.
mircea_popescu: things that can be easy already are. things that aren't easy can't be made "easier". if you can't afford a house, taking credit doesn't make the house easier. etc.
asciilifeform: the great crime of the 'easy self publishing' of today's automagic laser-printer-with-binding-machine is... on the reader.
asciilifeform: not long ago, i opened yet another envelope in expectation of finding 'a book that was actually a book once' and got an ms-word formatted turd
BingoBoingo: Oh, and original resolution of the NL MVP Stanton bet ended up being right. You can have the mods clear out all of that penny sports bet baseball spam nao
asciilifeform: with contents to match.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o btw, does the end product of my first foray into that industry suck ?
asciilifeform: it's a riot, actually
asciilifeform: i was thinking of a different envelope.
mircea_popescu: i mean as a product. the thing itself.
mircea_popescu: teh item
mircea_popescu: i ask you for i suspect you've read books before.
mircea_popescu: (true story, gave one to woman, she's like "oh this is so nice, i've never read a book before!"
mircea_popescu: intending it as a sort of compliment i guess ?)
asciilifeform: ;;google is that a real program or is that something somebody wrote
gribble: Programming Sucks - Still Drinking: <http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks>; Will Smith Quotes (Author of Just the Two of Us) - Goodreads: <http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/598671.Will_Smith>; How To Become A Hacker - Catb.org: <http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html>
asciilifeform: damn, wish i could find that ancient piece.
BingoBoingo was disappointed in the quality of his print on demand turd. The spine was an outie...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo pod sucked for a long time
BingoBoingo: On a paperback
mircea_popescu: by now it's maibe okish
BingoBoingo: Twas 2009, POD had been a thing for a while
asciilifeform: by now they have it to the level of the crappier mass-produced books.
BingoBoingo: I mean it's solid. I didn't get gyp'd on glue
asciilifeform: still can't get, afaik, 'lay-flats' other than the spiral variety
asciilifeform: lay-flat requires, i think, saddle-stitch binding
asciilifeform: rather than glue
asciilifeform: for what it's worth, i routinely use 'lulu.com' as a personal printer.
asciilifeform: works great.
BingoBoingo: If I were to imagine a serious book piracy operation, the standard glue "Perfect" binding would be prefered
BingoBoingo: Lulu.com was my printer too!
asciilifeform: they have, afaik, the whole thing automated. from 'pdf' to mailing crate.
asciilifeform: quite possibly no human ever even sees the result.
asciilifeform: when i say 'personal printer', i mean, in lieu of an actual printer.
asciilifeform: of the kind one may keep on a desk.
asciilifeform: for instance, i like, e.g., ic data sheets, in dead tree.
asciilifeform: i don't own a computer 'fast' enough to 'flip' a pdf the way a dead tree heap can be flipped, and not sure if such a machine even exists.
mircea_popescu: "Would you drive across this bridge? No. If it somehow got built, everybody involved would be executed. Yet some version of this dynamic wrote every single program you have ever used, banking software, websites, and a ubiquitously used program that was supposed to protect information on the internet but didn't."
mircea_popescu: which is why i am so keen on executions.
asciilifeform: yeah i think we did that one here
asciilifeform: not the article in question though
cazalla: " Earlier in 2014, the SEC investigated Eric Voorhees for the unregistered sale of securities of SatoshiDICE and FeedZeBirds, using the Romanian online crowdsale platform MPEx to solicit investors from 2012 to 2013."
asciilifeform: but for some reason yes, google brings it up for 'real program or something somebody wrote'
BingoBoingo: cazalla: I wrote a piece on that once
mircea_popescu: cazalla let me guess, they sourced it and everything.
mircea_popescu: which is how they got the wrong year.
assbot: Recent Key Bitcoin and Virtual Currency Regulatory and Law Enforcement Developments | Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP
assbot: The SEC Bares its Gums and Settles with Erik | Bingo Blog
cazalla: BingoBoingo, i've read that, this is just something i come across while looking for news
mircea_popescu: well, i guess this is a good point for anyone considering using Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP : don't.
mircea_popescu: they're too lazy to do their research and sprout nonsense in their pr. imagine the sort of horribru buried in their court filings
BingoBoingo: Oh, so like the think that got shat into news about litecoin mining which was settled last year
mircea_popescu: admitting anyone was to date naive enough to allow them to file on his behalf.
mircea_popescu: anyway, one of those fast food chains of legal practice. high churn, large staff of largely unqualified lawyers on dead end career tracks, whole thing kept together by paralegals, somewhat.
assbot: my evolution as a programmer
asciilifeform: original link dead many years ago, but - mirror.
asciilifeform: (why this was relevant - i will explain later. assuming anyone still cares. and is awake.)
BingoBoingo: I'm awake for a while. Winter came. Interfered with my sleep
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> unless you actually self publish. <<< preach it
nubbins`: vanity publishing is often a break-even venture at best
mircea_popescu: i'm awake because real cults don't sleep, they wait.
nubbins`: cthulhu fh'tagn
mircea_popescu: nubbins` what i meant was a distinction between self publishing, ie, being the editor, and self-rape, ie, being the customer of an editor specialised in raping idiots.
nubbins`: nod, full agreement here
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is exactly how hiring a lawyer has worked since at last the 60s
mircea_popescu: and how hiring a doctor is starting to be, too.
nubbins`: you gotta fight for your health here
nubbins`: digging in your heels is the only way
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you summarily introduce "menu-lookup" writing of glue code for the innocent ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37291 @ 0.00043536 = 16.235 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Is that a real program or is that something somebody wrote?" << ah yea, now this makes sense. i had the exact same notion, for exactly the same reason. a "real program" was something that didn't need to use the z80 basic interpreter, wasn't editable for this reason, and this immutability was cool. then on the msdos system, .exe binaries exactly mapped on this same structure of cool.
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
nubbins`: the day i realized i could just type spcinvad instead of spcinvad.exe!!
mircea_popescu: i loved deathtrack, and i spent a while finetuning the sound implementation of basic to make the same laser sound.
mircea_popescu: i think in the end i got it, and so i could fire as much as i wanted, no concern for bs "laser heating"
mircea_popescu: then i plugged a led into the serial port and had it blink when i lasered too, and this i think was the pinnacle of achievement.
nubbins`: openbazaar is going to change thzzzzzzz
nubbins`: oo a hud for your laser
mircea_popescu: imagine this, a 12 yo could figure out the serial port interface in ms-dos, without even knowing wtf a port or an interface are.
mircea_popescu: and with a led, mind, which only works on certain voltage going a certain way.
nubbins`: that 12yo must have grown up to be the smartest man alive
mircea_popescu: as it just so happens, that theory is about to get tested.
mircea_popescu: "Write a program that prints the numbers from 1 to 100. But for multiples of three print “Fizz” instead of the number and for the multiples of five print “Buzz”. For numbers which are multiples of both three and five print “FizzBuzz”.
mircea_popescu: for i x to y output + Fizz if i|3 output + Buzz if i|5 output + i if output is empty.
mircea_popescu: do i pass ?
nubbins`: i think if the current smartest man can't say for sure, then yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41600 @ 0.00043724 = 18.1892 BTC [+]
xanthyos: ok i may be wasting my time but i'm going to try to get that guy thomas_d into the wot again tonight
xanthyos: persistence paid off with bagels7
asciilifeform: menu-lookup writing of glue code << refers to systems like the (1990s? no idea if still fits this description) 'visual basic' and the like.
asciilifeform: where gigantic swaths of (hesitate to even call it a) program - get 'written for you'
mircea_popescu: basically i got the idea from reading the piece that he means code that implements the "cut problem into parts, implement parts, glue parts together" approach
asciilifeform: producing buckets upon buckets of boilerplate crud
asciilifeform: aha no. he was speaking of 'glue code' in the sense of gluing heavy 'prefab' swaths together
mircea_popescu: so dreamweaver is an example ?
asciilifeform: something which the archetypical 'indian replacement programmer' occupies himself with.
asciilifeform innocent of 'dreamweaver', cannot say
mircea_popescu: adobe "autobuild your website" code
asciilifeform: aha then likely.
mircea_popescu: was famous before mullenderp raped poetry a new hole, because you could tell from all the <hea<he</head>ad>>> mess that it had been used.
mircea_popescu: now those people mostly use wordpress, with PLUGINS
asciilifeform: aha, reminiscent of msword html output.
mircea_popescu: then ben_vulpes is here going "hmm, where the fuck is this nonsense hardcoded in"
asciilifeform actually uses a (very threadbare) 'wordpress'
mircea_popescu: or what's left of one.
mircea_popescu: makes php better rhan c i guess
mircea_popescu: adobe's shit is written in c, nobody can be bothered to compule it
asciilifeform: adobe never once, afaik, published source for anything
asciilifeform: other than 'alchemy'
asciilifeform: (a crackpot gcc port with... flash (!, yes) back-end)
asciilifeform: that was a real riot, incidentally
asciilifeform: somebody even got 'doom' to build.
assbot: Porting Doom to Flash - Interview with Mike Welsh — Peter Elst
asciilifeform: ^ that one.
asciilifeform: (why? no one knows! but it was done.)
mircea_popescu: this was leaked in what, 2002 ?
assbot: David Woo Of Bank of America Merrill Lynch: Don't Invest In Bitcoin | Qntra.net
cazalla: ooh, scoopbot is back, wb scoopbot
decimation: I could see some sense in a 'delay' in the case that an actual human examines the transactions before they are released
decimation: but in that case it wouldn't be an arbitrary delay enforced by a cron job for no reason
decimation: I remember playing 'doom' on my hp-48 calculator
decimation: someone ported to 'saturn' assembly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2891 @ 0.0004336 = 1.2535 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54000 @ 0.00043323 = 23.3944 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: cazalla lulzy quote.
mircea_popescu: will be funny reference in teh future.
PeterL: mrjr:thestringpuller: i'll work on getting my creds in order :) meni rosenfeld is one of our investors, and our cto Shaul Kfir was a reviewer for the sidechain paper. << wasn't Meni Rosenfeld connected with a GLBSE scam?
mircea_popescu: !up cb_bitcoin
mircea_popescu: PeterL from bitdaytrade to whatever you want.
PeterL: perhaps not the best name to drop as WoT cred?
mircea_popescu: guy specialises in vouching for scams, he's a sort of max keiser for his space.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, what ever happened to aurora coin ? has it passed ethereum yet ?
mircea_popescu: "So no, I'm not required to be able to lift objects weighing up to fifty pounds. I traded that for the opportunity to trim Satan's pubic hair while he dines out of my open skull so a few bits of the internet will continue to work for a few more days."
mircea_popescu: heh. alternatively, just don't write dumbass ajax websites for monkeys. big fucking deal, srsly.
BingoBoingo: "You can't arrest me. I'm the Cake Boss" http://4.nbcny.com/SGgcUl1
assbot: TLC's "Cake Boss" Arrested on DWI Charges in Manhattan: NYPD | NBC New York
assbot: NY Family Accused of Taking Out $20 Million in Mortgages While Collecting Food Stamps | NBC New York
mircea_popescu: how is this an accusation ?
mircea_popescu: a ok, fraud.
asciilifeform: real question: in which direction.
mircea_popescu: In one instance, one of Rubin's relatives claimed weekly income of $200 to get Medicaid and food stamps while claiming a net worth of $10 million to banks in order to get $7 million in loans.
mircea_popescu: this is presented as contradictory, but it actually isn't.
asciilifeform: i.e., borrowing $20m while broke and on food stamps? or fraudulently collecting food stamps while bathing in $20m bezzlars.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think one can genuinely be both simultaenously in the us atm.
asciilifeform: 'is it rape if the check bounced?'
mircea_popescu: much like 1990 russian megacorps.
asciilifeform: i imagine we will see
asciilifeform: my guess is - yes, both.
decimation: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/us/cuts-in-military-mean-job-losses-for-career-staff.html?_r=0 << usg is broke, decides to 'fire' army officers rather than cut back food stamps
assbot: Log In - The New York Times
decimation: although to be precise, the way the military 'fires' officers is more of a 'pocket veto' - if you fail to make the cut for promotion (at higher grades) you are automatically discharged
asciilifeform: used to be called, 'cachiering'
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2014/11/bip-65-revisiting-nlocktime/ << the problem with this is that if a miner doesn't implement the new protocol, and mines a block in spite of the supposed nlocktime lock, that block is well spent.
assbot: BIP-65: Revisiting nLockTime | Qntra.net
mircea_popescu: so a softfork does not in fact do anything, the dblspending party can just mine their own dblspend and that's that.
decimation: wait, they decide protocol details on twitter now?
BingoBoingo: Actual soft for yes, but "if all the miners accept" softfork is a hardfork
assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 19:04:36; *: asciilifeform admits that he suspects bip64 of being a plot to create usg-like bonds in btc. folks will be asked to trace X proper btc for X+epsilon 'locked' ones that are to land back in their pocket 'in the future', should they live long enough, but are actually recovable 'because this is how the world works'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56873 @ 0.00044346 = 25.2209 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: oh wait, I thought the delays that the scammer was writing about were simply 'private delays' on the part of the machine
mircea_popescu: Proving sacrifice to miners' fees
mircea_popescu: Proving the sacrifice of some limited resource is a common technique in a variety of cryptographic protocols. Proving sacrifices of coins to mining fees has been proposed as a universal public good to which the sacrifice could be directed, rather than simply destroying the coins. However doing so is non-trivial, and even the best existing technqiue - announce-commit sacrifices - could encourage mining centralization. C
mircea_popescu: HECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY can be used to create outputs that are provably spendable by anyone (thus to mining fees assuming miners behave optimally and rationally) but only at a time sufficiently far into the future that large miners profitably can't sell the sacrifices at a discount.
decimation: They want to bake it into the protocol? That's fuckin nuts
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps the most braindamaged nonsense i read today.
mircea_popescu: desperately needs more "expert" economists and whatnot.
decimation: "universal public good"
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Actual soft for yes, but "if all the miners accept" softfork is a hardfork << "all miners accept" means what ?
mircea_popescu: until a new miner joins ?
assbot: “I’d rather have this bill than not”, dictated the Professor | RWCG
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Means old clients accept giberish, but miners actually hardfork if a "time locked" signature is mined early
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo only workls for as long as they actually do.
mircea_popescu: tomorrow large miner joins, doesn't implement it, they hardfork all they want, chainwarz.
mircea_popescu: peppering this sort of nonsense in the code is a prime way to ensure the rough equivalent of "atomic weapons" for future negotiations.
mircea_popescu: "give us your daugther or we fork it" sort of bs.
BingoBoingo: Well, https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2i6pz0/peter_todds_checklocktimeverify_means_bitcoin/cm0liy8 seems not to be popular with the redditards, but on blocksizefork Bitpay has an incentive to choose the shitgnome side and face punishment
assbot: Atruk comments on Peter Todd's CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY Means Bitcoin Escrow, Refunds and a Fork
mircea_popescu: "It all traces back to the fact that the academy did not police itself properly. They gave, or through their inaction/laziness allowed to get, this guy and his (retarded) output the mantle of ‘expertise’. If the bad PR spilling off of him now redounds back onto other academicians in his peer group I understand that will be unfair in some cases but they have only themselves to blame."
mircea_popescu: it is not unfair in any case.
BingoBoingo: Because of course Vessenes' foundation wants bigger blocks when its only surviving members that pay it need bigger blocks
mircea_popescu: they should all hang for his sins. he may get off with prison, being just a fraud
mircea_popescu: but the actual professionals should hang, by their own guts.
decimation: yeah the author doesn't go far enough
mircea_popescu: "Seriously, I bet the ‘model’ is some kind of gunky spreadsheet. Or something little better, anyway. A mishmash of data being shoved together to reach predetermined conclusions, with tons of ad hoc assumptions. " << sounds like exactly dub's brew :D
decimation: I would bet money on that too
mircea_popescu: but hey, who's to argue with the politico-experts, right ?
decimation: he should start a bitbet
asciilifeform: in other news...
asciilifeform: '...in one case, the discovery that the crews that maintain the nation’s 450 intercontinental ballistic missiles had only a single wrench that could attach the nuclear warheads. “They started FedExing the one tool” to three bases spread across the country, one official familiar with the contents of the reports said Thursday. No one had checked in years “to see if new tools were being made,” the offici
asciilifeform: al said. This was one of many maintenance problems that had “been around so long that no one reported them anymore.”'
assbot: Log In - The New York Times
BingoBoingo: I could seriously imagine the chinese miners being coerced to oppose a USGaving blocksize increase simply because it hurts the payment processors. Bezelzebub bless the triad of mutual enemies working together for our success!
decimation: asciilifeform: supposedly that socket wrench that destroyed the missile in the silo in arkansas was 'ilegal'
decimation: now you know why
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo anyway, all the more reasons to have a proper, functional implementation of the canonical bitcoin code
mircea_popescu: for all these idiots to fall back on once the shit hits the fan.
decimation: yeah, if anything it's sewing ascii's parachute before being needed
BingoBoingo: Indeed, but also a factor that will provide the catalyst for the acceptance of Venetian Bitcoind
mircea_popescu: meanwhile they can all hold hands with the canada chick and chant how "bitcoin is not coming and not posing a risk"
mircea_popescu: noably, romania's president announced in 2009 that "criza financiara va ocoli romania"
mircea_popescu: literally, the crisis will go around romania.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40904 @ 0.00044601 = 18.2436 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: mircea_popescu: you mean that julia character
mircea_popescu: w/e her name is.
mircea_popescu: was on qntra earlier, which is the only reason she's notable.
assbot: Bank of Canada: Bitcoin Poses No Risk But We'll Watch It Closely Anyway | Qntra.net
mircea_popescu: Carolyn Wilkins
decimation: ah her
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29318 @ 0.00044997 = 13.1922 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00036402 / 0.00045973 / 0.00056765 (1289039 shares, 592.62 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.00058749 / 0.00068888 (6013699 shares, 3,533.03 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00070655 / 0.00081111 (22518580 shares, 15,910.69 BTC)
BingoBoingo: https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net << At this point in qntra's age I'm not disliking the sawtooth pattern.
assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast
decimation: I had a conversation today about some guy who knew a guy who bought a house for $200k in california in 2002 and sold for $700k in 2006
BingoBoingo: Also... Qntra's in the top quarter million nao
mircea_popescu: decimation that's pretty meta...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah seems to be revving up nicely.
decimation: so this guy profits... and the 'taxpayer' picks up the $$bn bill for freddie mac and implicit bank guarantees
decimation: my point being, does bitcoin represent a 'threat' to this arrangement?
BingoBoingo: decimation: I don't think so. Nothing is more fashionable than location.
mircea_popescu: decimation depends. can he do it on your 0.1% ?
decimation: real estate will always be an asset - but the bezzle freshly printing to fund it won't
mircea_popescu: the major point about low taxes is that it makes the pot of the public treasury too small to hold the estimation of the conman
mircea_popescu: and so the conman moves to try adn con private interest.
mircea_popescu: whereas when taxes are significant, the opposite happens.
decimation: that's a good point
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