Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2014-07-14 | 2014-07-16 →
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.1774593 = 0.7098 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 900 @ 0.00270404 = 2.4336 BTC [-] {13}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.17085641 = 2.9046 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.16583334 = 0.995 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 500 @ 0.00170604 = 0.853 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 40 @ 0.01630197 = 0.6521 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 575 @ 0.003 = 1.725 BTC [-] {10}
mircea_popescu: !up fluffypony
pankkake: !up fluffypony
fluffypony: still need to eauth
mircea_popescu: fluffypony so not that terribly interesting, the sort of "i've done google research from the us" article.
fluffypony: I can't even remember which article it was
fluffypony: slow brain day
assbot: Bitcoin industry thrives in Argentina. "A new safe haven". - Singularityisnear
fluffypony: ah yes
mircea_popescu: dumb shit like "counting sites" and doing site per million inhabitants comparisons
mircea_popescu: as if that fucking makes any difference.
fluffypony: heh heh
fluffypony: Internet marketing types :-P
mircea_popescu: << look at these fuckwits jesus god.
assbot: Surf Advertisements | BTC Clicks | Earn Bitcoins - Bitcoin Advertising - Bitcoin PTC
mircea_popescu: so a) they advertise in google, paying top dollar (1st result)
mircea_popescu: b) they run the dumbass iframe model
mircea_popescu: c) their publishers include luminaries such as "fair ponzi"
mircea_popescu: d) they... actually... run A DIFFERENT AD NETWORK in their dash.
bitcoinpete: "@jgarzik Jeff, is there a dumbed-down explanation somewhere of how to set up a node?"
danielpbarron: dummies shouldn't run nodes
bitcoinpete: just linked him pankkake's article on running a remote one
pankkake: I should test it before :p
pankkake: I'm not sure debian runs it by default
bitcoinpete: hurry! before the veecees break something!
bitcoinpete: dood already fav'd my tweet!
bitcoinpete: lol bitstein told alan silbert to download the core client and… run it.
bitcoinpete: alan's all: "Thanks Michael. Now I feel really dumb to have not found that easier. Thx!"
bitcoinpete: so mr fluffypony when can we look forward to reading your tales of baltic adventures?
pankkake: is that the guy who bought all the coins?
pankkake: quick, send him some forum IPOs
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: this week, hopefully, been insanely busy
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: what's keeping you occupied?
bitcoinpete: pankkake: the silberts tried to buy the sr coins and… failed
bitcoinpete: tim draper took 'em all down
bitcoinpete: heya bitstein
bitcoinpete: we were just mentioning you vis-a-vis silbert's node
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: had lots of catch-up work to do, missed a group exco meeting whilst I was away
fluffypony: and then we're tendering for a sales office on an estate on the Garden Route that has tons of holiday homes for rent
bitstein: hey bitcoinpete
fluffypony: so there's a ton of work on that to finalise before the 25th
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: a i c
bitcoinpete: bitstein: what's good?
bitcoinpete: "With apologies to both F. Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway, it seems the rich are not only different than you and me; they also have even more money than we previously thought." << que bueno!
bitstein: started the homestretch of school yesterday
assbot: The Rich Are Even Richer - Bloomberg View
bitcoinpete: bitstein: atta boy
bitstein: yourself?
bitcoinpete: can't complain really
bitcoinpete: "BRICS -- are due to approve the creation of a new currency reserve fund and development bank at their summit in Brazil, which starts today."
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: get them to use bitcoin ;)
fluffypony: that's the idea ;)
bitcoinpete: brazil is having all the funz this summer
nubbins`: got this email from our t-shirt supplier today
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
fluffypony: hah hah
fluffypony: "skunk and her gay best friend"
fluffypony: skank
fluffypony: or maybe skunk
mircea_popescu: !up non2
mircea_popescu: !up bitstein
nubbins`: seriously, what am i supposed to do with that image
mircea_popescu: !up non2
bitcoinpete: nubbins`: add them to the20year's posters?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` that girl doesn't eat does she.
bitstein: mircea_popescu: I found you extending the highest praise to me and my crew just days before I joined #b-a:
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log
nubbins`: maybe she eats t-shirts
nubbins`: same style shirt, different company:
mircea_popescu: bitstein reading the log pays huh
ThickAsThieves: tshirt companies are all about teh sex now huh
mircea_popescu: what exactly is the point of tshirts aside from easy access to tits ?
nubbins`: gildan is still pretty corny
nubbins`: mp, they're so comfy ;(
mircea_popescu: wifebeaters are comfier no ?
nubbins`: nah, ribbed plus seams are bigger
nubbins`: a nice soft t-shirt is like being draped in jersey-knit bedsheets
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: but womenz *hate* wifebeaters
mircea_popescu: they do ?!
mircea_popescu: maybe if they have small boobs and ugly tattoos
bitcoinpete: the clothing more than the type of dood
nubbins`: they're pretty greasy
bitcoinpete: men love the airy pits
bitcoinpete: women just… don't grok
nubbins`: well, the problem is that men who wear them are generally slobs
nubbins`: and nobody wants to see a slob's gross yellow armpits
bitcoinpete: the slob angle is a point
bitcoinpete: it's no 3-piece
mircea_popescu actually wears a button down shirt.
nubbins`: take a well-kempt person in one, and sure. looks fine. but then, most things do
nubbins`: (well-kempt!)
mircea_popescu: mein kempt!
nubbins`: ah, google has added btc to their currency converter
nubbins`: ;;google 1btc in cad
gribble: Convert Bitcoins (BTC) and Canadian Dollars (CAD): Currency ...: <>; CAD - Preev: <>; Bitcoin Exchange Rate - $670.15 CAD - <>
nubbins`: wait, right, doesn't work like that
bitcoinpete: they're saying 673
nubbins`: anyway. wonder where they're getting their prices from
fluffypony: ;;google convert 1 btc to zar
gribble: Bitcoin to South African Rand Rate — Bitcoin Live Converter — Preev: <>; Bitcoin Exchange Rate - 6663.292 ZAR - <>; 1 Bitcoin to South African Rand, 1 BTC to ZAR Currency Converter: <>
nubbins`: you gotta actually type it into ;(
fluffypony: sucks
mircea_popescu: 1 Bitcoin equals 666 Canadian Dollar
mircea_popescu: omg end of daez
assbot: Google
bitcoinpete: heh google doesn't even do that for gold
bitcoinpete: what is bitcoin, money nao?
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is cool.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 300 @ 0.00272161 = 0.8165 BTC [-] {10}
mircea_popescu: so do we have any adwords specialists in our midst ?
assbot: Rioforte prepares to file for creditor protection| Reuters
mircea_popescu: portugal is so gutted...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1000 @ 0.0026513 = 2.6513 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: EHX Reggie Watts explores the new 45000 multi-track looping recorder - YouTube
nubbins`: amazing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 40 @ 0.01659994 = 0.664 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.79080888 BTC to 12`347 shares, 14504 satoshi per share
ThickAsThieves: <@mircea_popescu> so do we have any adwords specialists in our midst ? /// I've notable experience, if not somewhat dated
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] [PAID] 2.99981269 BTC to 152`507 shares, 1967 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 19.36579792 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 1684 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 46 @ 0.01679889 = 0.7727 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: People who claim to worry about climate change use more electricity - Telegraph
assbot: Vagina selfie for 3D printers lands Japanese artist in trouble | World news |
danielpbarron: obviously they use more electricity! they can't use coal or gas!
danielpbarron: how do i make a tounge-in-cheek emoticon?
nubbins`: try using a lower-case p
ThickAsThieves: japanese poon is upside down
mircea_popescu: if she;s being fingertrapped, not usually.
pankkake: this matches the people I know - and not only electricity
danielpbarron: lol she's got her "i'm making art" hat on
mircea_popescu: "Last month it took more than 20 firefighters to free a US student who had become trapped inside a giant sculpture of a vagina in Germany."
mircea_popescu: now we know how many muricans it takes to fill a cunt.
BigBitz: mircea_popescu I thought you'd have a beard/shorter hair.
mircea_popescu: actually i do have a beard.
assbot: PAX East 2011 Triple Threat: The Origin of Dudebro - YouTube
ThickAsThieves: network broke 1 yottahash
ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 17567924696.2 based on data since last change | 17552028821.8 based on data for last three days
ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash
gribble: 125644233.459
ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 17567924696.2 based on data since last change | 17552028821.8 based on data for last three days
ThickAsThieves: ;;bcstats
gribble: Current Blocks: 310863 | Current Difficulty: 1.733631697850783E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 312479 | Next Difficulty In: 1616 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 3 hours, 28 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17567924696.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 1.33597
ThickAsThieves: it's actually leveling off huh
bitcoinpete: seems to be
ThickAsThieves: bitcoins bout to get spensive
bitcoinpete: how's that logic figure?
ThickAsThieves: well miners already paid for their shit
ThickAsThieves: they dont turn it off, they sell higher
ThickAsThieves: mining adds like what 3500 coins each day?
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 3600*24/512*25
gribble: 4218.75
Xplosionist: ;;calc 6*24*25
gribble: 3600
Xplosionist: mircea_popescu: Where did you get your numbers? I just did "6 per hour", which is of course only the theory, not the reality.
mircea_popescu: Xplosionist it's a joke. atc has 512 second blocks.
Xplosionist: mircea_popescu: Okay. I just "didn't get it". ;-)
mircea_popescu: !up Rassah
Rassah: Heard you guys were talking about us in here :)
mircea_popescu: so i am listening to this limp bizkit thing. is it like some sort of wannabe offspring, 20 years later ?
mircea_popescu: Rassah who's us ?
Rassah: Mycelium
mircea_popescu: !s mycelium
Rassah: specifically kickstarter projects, Entropy, etc.
mircea_popescu: kickstarter projects are common lulz fuel here ya
Rassah: !s Entropy
bitcoinpete: so are "entropy generators"
mircea_popescu: that's prolly mostly the physical concept.
bitcoinpete: hey Rassah
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot Rassah
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Rassah: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Fri Jun 3 23:49:22 2011
Rassah: Hey bitcoinpete
mircea_popescu: ;;rate Rassah 1 Old timer.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user Rassah has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: Rassah you can self voice, pm assbot !up if id'd with gribble
bitcoinpete: Rassah: neat rating comment from theymos "Holds BTC for the forum."
Rassah: yes. I'm one of the 7 or so treasurers...
ThickAsThieves: Leprechauns exist!
mircea_popescu: << apparently this is going to be a scroller.
assbot: Dudebro II
assbot: Bitcoin Graphics - Imgur
rithm: 7 treasurers!
Rassah: Woah. I haven't authenticated in over a year. Shows how often I visit IRC :p
ThickAsThieves: "Realcoin, therefore, represents an opportunity to speculate with fiat currency for the first time. If you have reason to believe its price will move for or against a digital currency on the market, now you can take advantage of that. "
fluffypony: ugh gross
ThickAsThieves: guys it will be so awesome to be able to speculate on digital currency!
Rassah: Although I support Realcoin, that statement is a bit... reduntant? Useless? Price moves for or against relative to something else, so instead of using Realcoin, you can just as easily use that something else...
ThickAsThieves: why do you support it?
ThickAsThieves: what does it really bring to the table?
mircea_popescu: Rassah the statement is typical of a desperate play for relevancy coming out of the sort of idiots that imagine claims matter.
ThickAsThieves: a ripple alternative?
fluffypony: nothing
Rassah: A dollar that trades directly on the bitcoin blockchain, allowing for atomic exchanges between bicoin and dollar-value asset
Rassah: I have doubts that banks and US reglators will allow it to happen though... but Brock does have some influence
ThickAsThieves: you mean exchange like already happen on Bitstamp etc?
Rassah: No, I mean exchage that happens on #bitcoin-otc, but without need for escrow
ThickAsThieves: i put dollars in, i get bitstampdollars
ThickAsThieves: oh so you mean launderable dollars?
mircea_popescu: Rassah what do you mean "without the need for escrow" lol.
Rassah: #bitcoin-otc: you send a promise of dollars, the seller escrows bitcoins. Dollars take time to get to the seller. Once they do, escrow releases coins to the buyer.
ThickAsThieves: so with escrow
Rassah: Realcoin: you agree to a trade with a bicoin sellet. You create a ransaction that trades one of the other. The trade is signed and happens at the same time
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
mircea_popescu: it's nonsense on a fucking stick, bitcoin and fiat still have different hardness.
Rassah: sorry about missing keys and typos.
mircea_popescu: i can clawback any usd anywhere by simply sueing.
mircea_popescu: this is why people don't btc to paypal directly, and haven't, since 2011.
Rassah: How can you clawback digital currency?
mircea_popescu: the fact that B. Fucktard P. wasn't here in 2011, because he was too busy blowing 13year olds in back alleys
mircea_popescu: doesn't mean he's excused from reading the 2011 logs.
mircea_popescu: on the contrary : he has to read them twice.
mircea_popescu: Rassah fiat does not become "digital currency" just because you'd like it to.
ThickAsThieves: the logs are like chapters of the book they get punished to read in Anathem
Rassah: I'm assuming that cryptocurrency that exists on Mastercin is transfered with private key signatures, and is permanent and complete upon transfer, same as every other cryptocurrency. No chargebacks
ThickAsThieves: they gave you 6 chapters!?
mircea_popescu: Rassah how do i get my actual dollars ?
Rassah: According to Brock, initially trough his own bank/exchange, and hopefully eventually through whatever banks support his system. So maybe yours. Since banks make money by charging fees to transfer money around, it may be difficult to convince them to add a system that lets them transfer their own dollars for little to no fee though
ThickAsThieves: the only difference between realcoin and bitstampdollar is you dont have to use bitstamp to trade it, but you still need realcoin to render those dollars eventually
mircea_popescu: Rassah so i sue his "bank/exchange", have its accounts locked.
Rassah: There's is another difference. Bitstant desn't have the resources, or even interest, in getting their Bitstamp dollars used by other banks
mircea_popescu: what happened to the "escrow" now ?
Rassah: *Bitstamp... >.<
ThickAsThieves: but what bank would ever want bitstampdollars?
Rassah: So, has it been long settled that we don't need a distributed exchange? I missed that memo...
mircea_popescu: Rassah you've missed a lot of things.
nubbins`: i like it when i tell people their artwork isn't big enough, and they just scale it up in photoshop
Rassah: ThickAsThieves: That's kind of my point too
danielpbarron: realcoin is not relevant in a post-fiat world; why even waste time on such a notion that only solves the "problem" of mass adoption
Rassah: From the way he described it, I think he only wants it to be a temporary stepping stone to make USD to BTC transition easer, and doesn't expect it to last very long
danielpbarron: if I think BTC is about to go down, I have local associates who would probably buy it off me today
ThickAsThieves: nubbins` I remember back in like 2001 using this to battle such idiocy
assbot: Perfect Resize 8 - onOne Software
ThickAsThieves: it took forever to process!
ThickAsThieves: uses fractals
Rassah: Mircea, care to fill me in on other thins I've missed? The "we don't need distributed xchanges ay more" is surprising considering MtGox died just 6 months ago, and BTC-e is questionable
danielpbarron: Rassah, right; my point exactly.. you can't force Bitcoin addoption; the common man will use Bitcoin when he is FORCED TO by the new economic reality
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla can bitbet search also have order by weight added ?
ThickAsThieves: rassah, you can't remove trust from the sytem, you can only move it to where you prefer
mircea_popescu: Rassah well, i linked you to the log. thing is, this right here is the hot core of btc. you will have to simply read the logs.
Rassah: ThickAsThieves: Trust in large regulated and audited body, supported by and in partnership with numerous banks > trust in some anonymous stranger on the internet
mircea_popescu: that'd be wrong, actually.
mircea_popescu: trust in government < any alternative < people < otc people.
Rassah: that's true too
mircea_popescu: there can't be a too in there.
mircea_popescu: they're contradictory.
mircea_popescu: the large audited regulated body === government.
Rassah: otc with 50+ ratings V.S. bank with licenses and audits? (
assbot: Bitcoin Is Great, But It Won’t Fix Our Monkey Brains | The mlaut
Rassah: I would trust an established banking institution more than an OTC trader with 2 or 3 ratings. I would trust an established OTC trader more than a bank
Rassah: it's not black and wite
mircea_popescu: this simply shows you're not well connected, and so mcdonalds level services (ie, bare minimum) are the best you see yourself aspiring to.
mircea_popescu: had you spend the past year or w/e cultivating irc, instead of wasting time on forums/skype/etc, you'd be in the position of lolling at the notion of a fiat bank.
Rassah: I'm pretty well connected. Just not on IRC :)
mircea_popescu: then you're not well connected.
Rassah: Most of the people I'm connected with don't have time for it.
mircea_popescu: this is just another way of saying they don't matter, you're aware.
Rassah: princessnell: love your nick btw
assbot: Fact of the matter is, the infrastructure was not ready pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ThickAsThieves: or that they are poor
Rassah: Oh. You're all millionaires here?...
mircea_popescu: some are billionaires.
mircea_popescu: and we also got some camhos.
danielpbarron is one of the elite few with > 1 BTC
ThickAsThieves: mycelium is doing well though, right?
mircea_popescu: i can't recall what that does.
ThickAsThieves: altwallet
ThickAsThieves: bitcoin wallet
ThickAsThieves: but yknow
ThickAsThieves: they did a trippy promo vid too
mircea_popescu: Rassah so whats the uvp there, convenience or something ?
mircea_popescu: !up chetty
ThickAsThieves: "We help people and companies
ThickAsThieves: to store, transfer and exchange value.
ThickAsThieves: Seamlessly, without numerous middlemen cutting off a big chunk
ThickAsThieves: of our profits and savings. It's our money, let's keep it simple."
Rassah: uvp?
ThickAsThieves: says mycelium
chetty: hey, ty MP
ThickAsThieves: Bitcoincard, wasnt that a Gox thing?
assbot: Home :: Mycelium
Rassah: Not at all
chetty: <Rassah> Oh. You're all millionaires here?... whats a millionaire? why is stuff being measured in dollars?
mircea_popescu: Rassah unique value proposition.
ThickAsThieves: i recall them having a credit card gizmo with buttons on it
ThickAsThieves: maybe it was justa 2fa
Rassah: Bitcoincard started as a mesh network based idea for a text messaging device. Then the gy who was developing it found out that it's perfect for a bitcoin wallet, ad switched directions, forming Mycelium
ThickAsThieves: chetty indeed!
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves o you actually tested this ?
ThickAsThieves: tested mycelium? i think i installed it somewhere
ThickAsThieves: havent really used it tho
Rassah: What's the UVP of what? Mycelium wallet?
mircea_popescu: Rassah so it's a half-implementation of bitcoin-qt, doing only the wallet part ?
ThickAsThieves: is bitcoincard shipped?
Rassah: Bitcoincard is credit card sized device, cheap, flexible, and uses 300meter range radio for communication
Rassah: No, we just got the prototypes in the office a few weeks ago
ThickAsThieves: asciilifeform will hack it for you
Rassah: First version of Bitcincard will just be a hardware wallet. Later version, once we get newer battery technology implemented (I think carbon?) it will do full mesh networking, meaning you'll be able to use Bitcoin without need for inernet, and if charged with solar, infrastructue of any kind
ThickAsThieves: though he may be bogged down shipping cardano
ThickAsThieves: mesh over what network?
mircea_popescu: well, mesh bitcoin wallet could be useful.
Rassah: mesh over it's own radio
mircea_popescu: no bluetooth with other devices around ?
Rassah: No. Possibly RFID to send signed transactions out of the device
mircea_popescu: that'll need a lot of saturation to be usable.
Rassah: Keep in mind, this thing, before it's laminated, is as thin as a piece of paper. Battery included. (and all flexible, including the display). Not much room or power for bluetoth
Rassah: yes, it will
ThickAsThieves: well considering we cant even mesh wifi
Rassah: I beieve the idea is to get merchants to use a "terminal" or sorts to use our cards with, which will provide some of the mesh. Once the cards are done, we'll probably also sell solar powered radio repeaters, with no screens or walet, which should make those dirt cheap too. Then you just glue them to tops of things
Rassah: For now the main product is the Android Wallet though. And that Entropy thing we're finishing up
ThickAsThieves: are you one of the angel-invested startups?
Rassah: What? How so?
Rassah: Oh
ThickAsThieves: i just mean how lots of bitcoin biz are getting early investors and making coindesk about it
Rassah: No, the owner who came up with the Bitcoincard idea, and started Mycelium for bitcoin stuff, is some super-rich Russian dude
ThickAsThieves: cool, that war tanks guys?
assbot: This website is exclusively for people over 18 years of age. | NEFT Vodka
ThickAsThieves: this is what i was thinking of
Rassah: No, I'm prettu syre not
ThickAsThieves: vodka in a barrel is acceptable
Rassah: Steel oil drum
Rassah: We are raising money for Entropy through Indiegogo because this was an idea that our devs came up with, and wanted to get it done regardless of our owner's financial input.
Rassah: He thinks if it won't make him a million ad get him a fancy sports car, it's not worth bothering with
ThickAsThieves: so he liked the idea, but not enough to fund it?
Rassah: but we think the idea is neat, chea, and worthwhile
Rassah: *cheap
ThickAsThieves: itll at least make reddit happy
mircea_popescu: <Rassah> yes, it will << to understand each other, we're talking millions of units in users hands before the 1st unit shipped becomes usable.
mircea_popescu: this means millions of units shipped the same day, launch day.
mircea_popescu: this is the sort of thing a megacorp a la sony can still botch.
Rassah: <Rassah> yes, it will is reply to <mircea_popescu> well, mesh bitcoin wallet could be useful.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves rassah is chiefly famous for having been an early adopter, then having bought bitcoin out of some sort of a retirement fund w/o the so's permission, right before the climb to 8 or something like that. then sold out and well, one of the first people to pay their mortgage "because bitcoin".
Rassah: Mesh network wallet, whether it is made my us or someone else, will be very useful, especally in places where electricity and internet/cell phone is spotty or unreliable (most of the world?)
Rassah: Mircea, absolutely not. That's not me
ThickAsThieves: mp thx for background
ThickAsThieves: Rassah you can be like Tesla and make a big deal, say you are open-sourcing your mesh network tech
ThickAsThieves: let any device on the standard
ThickAsThieves: then you get your mesh
mircea_popescu: Rassah what, srsly ?
ThickAsThieves: make it talk to phones and such
ThickAsThieves: like mp said
Rassah: I was an early adopter, I bought bicoin usin my OWN retirement funds (i.e. money slated to go to IRA and savings every week ended up going into Bitcoin). Then I borrowed some more money from our HELOC to buy a $30k BLF miner, I never preordered, waiting for them to ship, by February 2013 they still didn't ship, so I sold those bitcins, paid off the HELOC, and bought this instead. I bought at $8, and sold
assbot: Bitcoin Prius - Imgur
Rassah: at $22, thinking "bubble." I was wrong on that, but my car had 250,000+ miles on it and was almost dead, so *shrug*. I have never sold out any of my other coins. As far as anyone knows, I have lost them all in a boating accident, or when I accidentally dropped my USB stick into an airplane toilet and flushed it out over the Atlantic
rithm: so mpex had a raid controller failure
Rassah: Paying my mortgage off with bitcoin would be very stupid, because mortgage rate is 4%, and bitcoin rate is ThroughTheMoon%
rithm: someone linked me to the blog and i read paranoia and/or a failed raid controller
rithm: maybe i skimmed
mircea_popescu: Rassah ah ok.
Rassah: And, btw, I was buying when it was $6, then $16, then $22, and then continued bying all the wa from $30 to $2.50, because I understood and believed in the syste
rithm: hi rassah
jcpham: i hide
Rassah: hi rithm
mircea_popescu: so how much btc was the prius ?
Rassah: hi jcpham
Rassah: Conveniently, the Prius was *exactly* 1,000BTC. Makes it easy to calculate it's present BTC value
mircea_popescu: rithm both, really.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla see ? he got a 1k btc prius. beats your golf cart.
pankkake: eheh, twice kakobrekla's car!
Rassah: btw, the only people here I know are Mircea...
rithm: so clandestine three-letter agencies dumping the firewire, supermagnets, and a failed raid controller
danielpbarron: damn that's an expensive way to look like you care about the environment
Rassah: I don't give a shit about the environment. I bought it to save money
kakobrekla: yes im a cheap bastard.
Rassah: which it does wonderfully
mircea_popescu: coulda bought 3 teslas, duct tape them together and just go everywhere and snub people
ThickAsThieves: i just got a prius as a hand-me-down
mircea_popescu: "see i r care about environment 3x more than you do"
rithm: oh are we having the conversation about "how x could be different if only i"
mircea_popescu: rithm less than a house still.
danielpbarron: i don't think a 1`000 BTC prius can ever get a ROI
rithm: that's time. anything you think you might have lost in currency conversion, it's really just time
rithm: if the 1000 btc were free?
ThickAsThieves: maybe he uses the money he saves on gas to buy more bitcoins
mircea_popescu: (for the newfags, this "less than a house" thing is a reference to a 2012 discussion re jcpham's investment in pirate. he had less thna a house, more than a car there)
Rassah: What I didn't know before is that Priuses have no transmissions, timing belts, or belts f any kind, and reqire practicaly no mainenance other than 10k mile oil changes and 100k brake pad and transaxle fluid changes. Everything else is electric... After $600+ expenses every 3 to 5 years on my Honda Civic, this is awesome. The 60mpg helps too
rithm: $7500 principal plus whatever zny interest pirate math was owed
rithm: mp speaks the truth
rithm: *zany
mircea_popescu: rithm so like... 498574389759347 btc ?
rithm: go away
mircea_popescu: i go away next week 7% more ?
kakobrekla: Rassah should have got a golf.
rithm: i'd have to dig up screenshots
rithm: 1600btc and change
rithm: give or take
mircea_popescu: rithm right. plus interest.... 45096450968045 btc
Rassah: Plus I like driving a cell phone on wheels :D
rithm: it was a row in some mysql databse
rithm: it could be anything
rithm: it was not mine though
mircea_popescu: Rassah i just did the math, i spent more on camhos this month than your ho nda took every 5-6.
kakobrekla: is thats why you hide these days?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i think he just wants to sing these days.,
rithm: i like rithm more
Rassah: Oh, also got a 1,500 Watt inverter for it that can power quite a bit of my house. I can power that thing for about a week on a 10 gallon tank of gas. Conveient for camping, power outages, or GTOFing
rithm: i delightfully detached from that now
rithm: that was years ago
rithm: why are we bringing up old shit
rithm: Trendon stole my time from me
mircea_popescu: Rassah 1.5 watt inverter is kinda low neh ? cause of inductive capacity, you can't really run a fridge ron it
Rassah: Mircea, you are screwing up one of my bitcoin defences
rithm: and he's broke and he can't pay it back
kakobrekla: i got 3kw for 500bux a couple of months ago
Rassah: Trolls claim bitcoin is used for childporn, I point out that that's not true because no one pays for porn any more. Yet you do
mircea_popescu: Rassah it's moar complex than that.
mircea_popescu: i just buy souls.
ThickAsThieves: theyre in love
pankkake: of course people pay for porn
rithm: well childporn is secret and hides
rithm: from what i hear
Rassah: Not really
Rassah: from what I hear
assbot: I wasn’t going to actually post this, but… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
rithm: xvideos and pornhub have a terrible selection based on the search i just did for childporn
Rassah: Being on a tor site doesn't eally mea hiding, does it?
danielpbarron: there is some creep in -otc that pays for a subscription to beastiality porn or something
mircea_popescu: rithm what is it, mostly brazil team ?
rithm: lololol
Rassah: *realy
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron is that the one with feminists ?
assbot: Germany's plan to take on NSA: Block eavesdroppers with classical music, and use typewriters - Telegraph
Rassah: hmm... I wonder what it would take for LocalTrader to compete with bitcoin-otc?...
pankkake: danielpbarron: well custom or niche porn is definitely something people will always pay for
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, idk; who is that? I'm talking about Wolf`
pankkake: but still, it's not like pro porn production is slowing down, is it?
mircea_popescu: the people backing otc to move there. which won't happen really, because people don't move unless the platform fucks up majorily.
rithm: yeah that dude is fubar
rithm: `Wolf
Rassah: chetty: It's Germany. They would have a much better result if they blocked it with deathmetal
mircea_popescu: pankkake it's not, mostly because the girls like to do it, the photogs like to do it, everyone likes to do it.
mircea_popescu: but it's not really making money anymore.
mircea_popescu: <Rassah> chetty: It's Germany. They would have a much better result if they blocked it with deathmetal << WORD.
rithm: the nicer your camera is, the quicker the clothes come off, but ymmv
pankkake: it makes enough
pankkake: and of course they like to do it
mircea_popescu: yeah well, shoe shining makes enough.
assbot: My 2,000 BTC is all gone :( |
pankkake: there was (still is?) a porn kickstarter, but most of the things there were boring. the only one I voted for didn't go to funding stage
ThickAsThieves: mp doesnt think cats can love now, when was the last time you were hugged?
mircea_popescu: ironically i just peeled out of a hug to read this.
ThickAsThieves: excellent
mircea_popescu: this internet psychology thing may have some limitations.
mircea_popescu: but anyway. ever seen a cat sitting on its master's grave ?
ThickAsThieves: not sure thats the measure of ability to love
pankkake: cats are psychopats
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what measure you'd propose ?
ThickAsThieves: kinda loaded question i think
ThickAsThieves: i suppose you could chemically test it
mircea_popescu: it can't be a loaded question. it gets immunity, because it's the strict followup to your protest.
ThickAsThieves: my protest is that you require notable mourning
ThickAsThieves: which i'm not sure is always required for love
ThickAsThieves: and i'm also pretty sure cats will mourn for their own
Rassah: <mircea_popescu> Ah, forgot about that one. Sorry, I was trolling the bitcoin trolls, and explaining things to any alphabet soup agencies that may be listening.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves does your position reduce to "cats love you too but you'll never know ?" cause i could argue the same of dildos.
Rassah: Oh, no wait. The 2,000 btc that was all gone was the BTC that went to pay for my Prius and pay off the HELOC. Sorry, got confused
Rassah: but I purposefully worded it in the OP as if I had lost it all
kakobrekla: to throw off the FBI.
Rassah: Still reading "bitcoin-is-great-but-it-wont-fix-our-monkey-brains". Long ass article with lots of sie-links...
ThickAsThieves: no, more that cats express love in more limited way than humans do
ThickAsThieves: loved as a provider or protector or alpha etc
princessnell: mircea_popescu re: blog. US rebellion day was especially bleak this year. so many patriots in love with a system that despises and exploits them. defending the ghouls that have consumed and spit out their culture.
mircea_popescu: Rassah the author is this smart cookie.
princessnell: how do you do
Rassah: Not Andrea Castillo?
pankkake: so gold diggers are in love?
mircea_popescu: pankkake in a more limited way than sluts.
pankkake: sluts love the/your dick, at least
ThickAsThieves: i think calling a cat a goldigger might be a tad off the mark
mircea_popescu: yeah, they don't really like to have to dig.
pankkake: mind you, I really like cats, and I wish I could have one
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves, crazy software. probably not as slow these days with the abundance of cheap ram
nubbins`: danielpbarron, it only takes 1btc to be elite these days? what the fuck does that make the rest of us?
nubbins`: also, i may have a lead on a poster job for a music festival ghostface killah is playing at
Rassah: So what kind of important, well connected, people who matter hang out on here?
nubbins`: trying not to get too excited ;0
danielpbarron: there can only ever be 21 million of such individuals; that's pretty elite vs 7 billion total population
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron nubbins` is canadian, he has no representation of people density.
Rassah: whom, if I had met, I'd be laughing at the notion of a fiat bank? (mind you, I hang out wth the likes of Kody Wilson and Amir Taki, too)
Rassah: I'm just wondering what the difference is between this IRC, and the Reddit/Skype/etc that's supposedly worse
mircea_popescu: Rassah well, here's a point : reddit/skype/etc still wonder why atc is a thing.
mircea_popescu: while everyone's tried to make altcoins and failed ever since forever.
Rassah: otc?
Rassah: I'm wondering what thing atc is
pankkake: why would you consider Altcoin a success?
mircea_popescu: pankkake because its price graph looks exactly opposite of doge&the rest of the scamfarm ?
assbot: A Touch of Class (band) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
pankkake: Anus Then Cunt
assbot: [SHA256] Altcoin | Page 22 |
pankkake: atc's market cap is pretty small, there's no real over-valuation I suppose
mircea_popescu: you say this as if it were a bad thing.
pankkake: no, it's a good thing, but I wondered if you thought so too
kakobrekla: being dead is better than pretending of being alive :)
mircea_popescu: pankkake course i do.
pankkake: I don't think any altcoin should have a market cap >$10,000 or so
pankkake: well that clears something up
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla btw, i saw coffee and ciggarettes coupla days back. pretty good actually.
kakobrekla: is not bad.
mircea_popescu: pankkake twas clear tho, i had said so before, and dropped buncha other hints around it.
Rassah: I'm not sure if Altcoin is a joke or serious, reading is description...
Rassah: It sounds sarcastic
kakobrekla: serious joke.
ThickAsThieves: serious as a moustache
assbot: [ANN] Bernankoin the Coin Not Evil according to Paul Krugman DL WINQT v1.3 NOW |
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves lulz of all time : chick put a magic marker winking eye next to her nipple and moustaches on both tits. not said a word.
Rassah: So I think "reddit/skype/etc still wonder why atc is a thing" should have been " reddit/skype/etc don't even know atc is a thing."
nubbins`: mircea_popescu did you see the Iggy Pop / Tom Waits bit in c&c?
mircea_popescu: Rassah there's a lot teh soft cloud of derps circling btc don't know about.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` yup
nubbins`: rich stuff
nubbins`: "...actually, just call me iggy" "so Jim..."
mircea_popescu: !up jdoubleu
mircea_popescu: they suck at acting, too.
Rassah: So, I'm still confused I guess
nubbins`: waits is actually a pretty good actor. they were both hamming it up in that scene
nubbins`: he played the devil in that Dr Parnassus movie
Rassah: By the way, anyone going to be in Chicago this weekend?
ThickAsThieves: rassah wants to know why any of us really matter
nubbins`: i really matter because i'm moderately well-connected in the wot
Rassah: <ThickAsThieves> No I DOn't
nubbins`: now, tbh, this only matters for some definitions of "matter"
ThickAsThieves: i'm confused about what you are confused about then
mircea_popescu: Rassah you got autocomplete in your client right ?
Rassah: I want to know why Mircea claimed that people here are important, and people outside of here are not
Rassah: Mircea: I don't know
mircea_popescu: a, that's easy. because mircea is a rich bastard, and that means he can claim anything he fucking feels like, then make it so.
mircea_popescu: try it : type mir hit tab, see what happens.
Rassah: Specifically, what types of connections that you can make here, and why are they better than connection on Reddit/Skype/etc
ThickAsThieves: miragine war
Rassah: mir
mircea_popescu: well that didn't work.
Rassah: n s
nubbins`: he said tab, not enter
Rassah: mircea_popescu: oh
nubbins` golf claps
mircea_popescu: tab is like enter...
Rassah: I was looking for any key
ThickAsThieves: there are connections on reddit?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves taleb is on reddit.
Rassah: I have made a few, yes
nubbins`: it's not dissimilar to enter
princessnell: Rassah you'll get it when you keep coming back
mircea_popescu: btw, anyone got that saffron chick's youtube at the ready ?
nubbins`: wait, so taleb didn't take the bait from that really super cringey video you paid for?
Rassah: But will I ever see any of you in real life? Like, speaking of which, is anyone here going to Chicago?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` nope :( he revenge-joined reddit instead.
nubbins`: bastard
mircea_popescu: hm whatr was it
mircea_popescu: $conference
nubbins`: gotta admit, i had to stop watching it
empyex: mircea_popescu: Next conference starts in 9 months and 2 days. Estimated cost today: 2.11806614 BTC (Details: )
assbot: The conference, third edition pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ThickAsThieves: rassah, i go to the amsterdam conferences, otherwise we go to mp's conference
nubbins`: hey, i'll be in amsterdam soon
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the funny thing is... you promised liveblog. then blog. then it fizzled. then fluffypony went to some derpference, promised liveblog. then blog. then it fizzled.
Rassah: I was at the Amsterdam one on September
mircea_popescu: im starting to think like there's no content to be had or something
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I did Twitter instead of liveblog because of lack of stuff to talk about live
ThickAsThieves: i have like 20 draft articles
ThickAsThieves: just hooked on trading lately
mircea_popescu: fluffypony well yeah but sadly i killed andreas, so... i got nuttin'.
Rassah: ThickAsThieves: If Amsterdam, do you know Moe Levin?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` srsly, why are they so cringe-y ?
ThickAsThieves: i do not know him personally
ThickAsThieves: i know who you mena though
nubbins`: mp i'm not sure, i guess generally people with a lack of social skills both end up cringey and spending a lot of time at the computer
nubbins`: add tits, and voila
nubbins`: cringey camgirls
nubbins`: seriously, the fifth word out of her mouth was "fantastical"
nubbins`: and she was talking about an intelligent person's brain
Rassah: ThickAsThieves: Damn. I'm wondering if the tightly woven net of connections here is in any way linked with the tightly woven net of connections I am involved with outside of here...
pankkake: shorter vids would have been better I think
mircea_popescu: Rassah << there. how does htis look to you ?
assbot: Mission: #bitcoin-assets - YouTube
pankkake: as there wasn't much to say, so it ends up being weird
ThickAsThieves: Rassah, not by me
mircea_popescu: pankkake i did take it from 5 to 3. how short!
ThickAsThieves: i probly annoyed people you know at one time or another, but im not connected to em
mircea_popescu: but maybe we should actually write scripts for the girls.
Rassah: mircea_popescu: finally finished your article. Nothing I disagree with. Much of that is discussed in private by some of the attendees, who otherwise put on a faux public face
mircea_popescu: Rassah faux public faces eh ? myeah.
Rassah: you don't tak about assassination market based disincentives in public, no
mircea_popescu: i talk about whatever the fuck i happen to feel like talking, why the hell not.
ThickAsThieves: thats why reddit doesnt adore you
Rassah: Some people are public company representatives that still rely on sales and not making politicians freak the fuck out :)
mircea_popescu: yes. and their companies added together are pretty much almost equal mpex.
mircea_popescu: which apparently doesn't even need to be online.
pankkake: I think being right when they are wrong is what's annoys them
Rassah: Which is fun to do if you aleady don' give a fuck about things, but is something o keep in check if public work is still to be done
pankkake: reddit made it ok to hide things that hurt your feelings
mircea_popescu: pankkake the theory i was happy with held that they worship the holders of trappings of power. ie, only the powerless.
Rassah: By he way, wat does mpex do/make? I just realized I never really looked into that... I guess I should
mircea_popescu: everyone else is scarydangerous.
mircea_popescu: Rassah makes a few hundred to a few ks a month, valued a few 100ks to a mil.
fluffypony: well at the moment mpex is the king of being offline :-P
pankkake: when it's online, it trades itself
fluffypony: and the owner keeps getting extradited from country to country
fluffypony: when he's not threatening to kill religious leaders
Rassah: Oh, yeah, an exchange. Sorry, forgot
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i wonder when the first president rape occurs. now that women can be presidents.
Rassah: The longest running exchange that has not collapsed like every single other asset exchange has
Rassah: It's been a while since I have been in the anals of bitcointalk, so I forgot. Please fogive me Mircea
mircea_popescu: lol wait, what'd you do ?
ThickAsThieves: sounds like he got rich buying bitcoins and now makes bitcoin products for reddit
Rassah: I forgot what MPEx was
mircea_popescu: lol not like it's a crime
Rassah: mircea_popescu: btw, ironically, I thinkyou and Brock Pierce of Realcoin would get along well together...
fluffypony: Rassah: mircea_popescu isn't into little boys
fluffypony: so I don't think that's a good match
ThickAsThieves: what was the quote?
Rassah: neither is Brock, so that's not what I meant
mircea_popescu: fluffypony i'm very tolerant tho.
ThickAsThieves: theyre like children, you wanna love them all
mircea_popescu: Rassah well so what did you mean ?
pankkake: isn't realcoin the stupidest thing ever?
benkay: <nubbins`> wait, so taleb didn't take the bait from that really super cringey video you paid for? // 30 second doses were all i could handle
Rassah: Brock is not as insultingly direct as you, but the best way to describe him is chaos. He has a shitton of money, and his goal in life is to create as much chaos and clusterfuck as possible using that money. Including investing in things that compete directly against his own companies and prior investments.
ThickAsThieves: so he also needs a hug
Rassah: That's partially why Realcoin, too. Get the pot stirring, maybe someone will get upset and make something better, maybe not, likely it won't go anywhere (he doesn't think it will last may years), but as long as he had fun, he does't give a shit
mircea_popescu: benkay why was it cringe-y ?
pankkake: if you want to transfer USDs tied to a counterparty, at least use Ripple where you can have more than one central counterparty
benkay: poor improvisation.
Rassah: He's basically another stpid-rich guy who likes to fuck with things
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you and your hugs. next time i see you ima make everyone hug you.
ThickAsThieves: no i'll melt!
benkay: and if scripted, godawful scripting.
Rassah: pankkake: I'd rather use OpenTransaction instead of Ripple
mircea_popescu: benkay but i had believed in the power of the crowd source!
mircea_popescu: ot actually works now ?
benkay: 2's a crowd?
pankkake: oh, I suppose you could use it that way too
pankkake: in any case, you don't need a "coin"
Rassah: mircea_popescu: And Brock also privately has a ton of high level connections, probably to almost every bitcoin mining company, bitcoin business, and ons of cuntry politicians, from Russia to China to Sout America...
pankkake: and Thailand
benkay: i long for my home cuntry
ThickAsThieves: cuntry road take me hoem
mircea_popescu: Rassah and if instead he were just a washed up child actor with a charged past, looking to come to terms with his depression, wouldn't he be claiming basically the exact same things ?
Rassah: pankkake: I agree with you that you don't need a coin for anything backed. Backing is by definition centralized, so the only thing you can decentralize is the servers handling it. Which, I guess using a distributed ledger instead of a centralized one running on your own server saves you a bit of money, but...
benkay tunes out
mircea_popescu: now seriously dear assets, we need a script for the next girl doing a nude attack vid.
mircea_popescu: who's got ideas!
Rassah: mircea_popescu: I don't think washed out child actors have millions privately invested in tons of companies, and tak about this shit over 20 rounds of beer that they pay with an AmEx Centurion card
mthreat: 1. bitcoin for script writer
mthreat: 2. bitcoin for tits
mthreat: 3. profit
mircea_popescu: well, if noit profit, at least scriptits.
princessnell: i can write a script. no tits from me tho.
mircea_popescu: princessnell but can you make it good ?
princessnell: i think so! what are you going for?
mircea_popescu: you watched the prev ones ?
princessnell: only that one with dear saffron
Rassah: Anyone ever wonder how the hell Brock, whom no one knew much about, got elected to the BF board, when the public either does't know him or hates his guts? To me that says connections of some sort...
mircea_popescu: princessnell good enough.
Rassah: Anywa, back to reading trilema links...
mircea_popescu: princessnell so then why ask me what we're going for ?
princessnell: so i can give you exactly what you want
mircea_popescu: Rassah the bf board is easy. i could have a dead hamster elected, if i wanted to waste btc supporting cancer.
mircea_popescu: i like how this is going, but! what i want is basically the words for a camho to coldhit an older, accomplished male.
mircea_popescu: exactly the reverse of pickup artistrsy
Rassah: Hah! So you got connections to people on the bf board! Finally some real world ties :D
mircea_popescu: this is getting lulzy.
assbot: The stuff all good conspiracy theories start with pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
princessnell: coquettishness then. how long? who are the marks?
princessnell: #bitcoin-assets is the realest world
mircea_popescu: princessnell how... long ? well so far i took it down from 5 to 3 minutes. if you can deliver in less im sure the girls will love it.
Rassah: I recognize Mircea... I guess that's all that matters?
benkay: mircea_popescu: it's going to have to be an actual nude video this time too
mircea_popescu: benkay yeah.
mircea_popescu: the hard part is that well... too much going on for the girl to manage. you'll see.
benkay: hm?
Rassah: mircea_popescu: yeah. Seems there are two completely different power groups in Bitcoin
Rassah: Which is awesome, because I have TWO social ladders to climb now :D
mircea_popescu: Rassah notrly. the people you've not identified include wences, voorhees, momchil, bunches of others.
Rassah: That IS Voorhees?
mircea_popescu: welcome to 2012.
Rassah: I tought it was him, but didn't want to risk insulting you, because I didn't know what your opinion of him is
mthreat: mircea_popescu: have you tried running a google adword on taleb's own name? people often google themselves. I remember reading a blog post from a guy who used that approach to reach someone.
mircea_popescu: perhaps because you also don't know who laid down the ruleset for the sec, and really for the whole us
mircea_popescu: because you think there's somehow two power groups, because i guess... a lot of talking ? or something.
mthreat: mircea_popescu: (assuming you're trying to get taleb here)
mircea_popescu: mthreat yeah but that someone was a vapid marketeering bitch.
mthreat: this was a guy, but i'm sure it's happened more than once
mircea_popescu: imo it'd be a shit move, seeing how plenty of people google taleb to, you know, find taleb.
mthreat: geolocate it to his city
mircea_popescu: (bitch is not gender bound)
mthreat: "bitch is in the heart"
mircea_popescu: are you setting me up for a restraining order ?
mircea_popescu: princessnell if it helps, i think the next victim is nick szabo
mircea_popescu: which reminds me, dear chan, we also need a victim list!
princessnell: ooo <3nick szabo<3 will do my best. bitstein has been chatting him up, maybe he can help with that one.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin-assets. where you do what you love. also puns.
Rassah: mircea_popescu: I noticed you rely a lot on PHP... I've been treating my PHP keys like disposable tissues, and relyig on bitcoin message signing instead...
Rassah: Is that in any way something you accomodate?
mircea_popescu: << in which self centered douche imagines someone poking fun at him necessarily gives a shit about him personally.
mircea_popescu: Rassah i have no idea what you just asked. what php keys, and where would i accomodate them ?
Rassah: For instance, at the conference
Rassah: Doh! PGP, not PHP
mircea_popescu: no, i'm not going to support a braindamaged half baked re-implementation of pgp in bitcoind.
mircea_popescu: leaving aside all the 500 other problems with the idea, why would you want to centralise things ?
Rassah: Centralize?
Rassah: It's supported by bitcoind,, Armory, Mycelium, and probably many others. I figured bitcoin message signing is a step in the right direction, because not many are working on making PGP keys secure as hell, but tons of people are woking on making Bitcoin keys secure as hell, and easy to use from wallets. Otherwise I don't know what the difference in implementation is between PGP and BTC signing
pankkake: pgp offers more than signing, and has an entirely different paradigm. identity has multiple signing and encryption keys; you trust the identity
Rassah: oh yeah
pankkake: using bitcoin forces you to a lower level that is quite inconvenient
mircea_popescu: Rassah you figured wrong. tieing your ability to sign to bitcoin is a step in the wrong direction.
assbot: Police Investigating Star Tech CEO Over Multiple Rape Allegations
mircea_popescu: wait srsly ?!
pankkake: Scott Kveton is the CEO of Urban Airship, a mobile services platform provider in Portland, Oregon <= CEO, "urban", "mobile services", "portland"
benkay: no contracts, no negotiation. just...
pankkake: that wsan't rape, that was ironic sex!
benkay: no safewords even apparently. lots of intoxication.
mircea_popescu: i don't do safewords either.
ThickAsThieves: <+Rassah> Anyone ever wonder how the hell Brock, whom no one knew much about, got elected to the BF board, when the public either does't know him or hates his guts? To me that says connections of some sort... /// but how to apply this logic to Ploshay?
assbot: People! US Dollars are not worth a fifth of a Bitcent. STOP SELLING! : Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: reddit discovers things.
Rassah: ThickAsThieves: but how to apply this logic to Ploshay? Ploshay was well liked, and was like the "popular girl" or whatever, elected during a very public election when the BF was still something the general public was interested in, and when BF was still interested in a public image
Rassah: Ploshay won a popularity contest basicaly (I ran against her, so I may be biased)
mircea_popescu: lol wait, the bf is not interested in a public image anymore ?
mircea_popescu: was this 5 minutes before or 5 minutes after their public image got wrecked ?
fluffypony: so Petamine made a BIG fuss about moving to p2pool
mircea_popescu: p2pool sadly has some lingering tech issues. for years now.
Rassah: It was not 5 minutes, it was more like a long slog into the dumps
mircea_popescu: i'd love nothing more than to push a p2pool.
Rassah: I love p2pool
Rassah: A lot of the whole "How can we fix 51% attacks" suggestions are really horrible...
Rassah: I am especially concerned about the one where mining in a pool is made difficult to impossible by making sharing a secret key that lets the miner steal all coins a requirement. The way I see it is, we either have pools that concentrate mining power, but don't actually own or control that power, or we create incentives for individuals to amass tons of mining power, since being a smal miner or as part of a pool is impossible, and
Rassah: then we have individuals that actually do control that mining power. Badly alligned incentives...
Rassah: Basically, pools with 50% mining power are better than individuals with 50% mining power, and some ideas seem to make us trend to 50% owned by individuals
mircea_popescu: Rassah the key sharing thing is braindamaged.
mircea_popescu: there will be a wrapper around it on day 1.01
Rassah: Hey, can you guys tell me who BitcoinPete is?
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust bitcoinpete
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user bitcoinpete: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 7 via 8 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Fri Mar 28 09:14:47 2014
mircea_popescu: << someone needs to explain to me how homeless people can be residents of san francisco.
assbot: Startup CEO Dudebro Wishes 'Degenerates' Would Stop Ruining 'The Civilized Part' of San Francisco - LGF Pages
mircea_popescu: am i a resident of sf ?
ThickAsThieves: Rassah, bitcoinpete is a b-a disciple going back roughly 6mos, he blogs and has a neat jewfro
ThickAsThieves: not sure his profession
mircea_popescu: !up gabriel_laddel
Rassah: Huh. He's actually the reason I'm in here in the first place. I followed his blog here, after he tweeted that Mycelium Entropy < dice, and agreed once I asked him if he would be interested in auditing out device.
gabriel_laddel: they spend a lot on the homeless every year in SF. I imagine that when they hand it out they sort out the papers for these 'people'.
Rassah: Peter Todd will be doing an audit too, ad I was hping Bitcoin Pete was someone with some technical knowledge or something
mircea_popescu: but still. to reside somewhere must mean you own some real estate.
mircea_popescu: Rassah tech knowledge in what field ?
Rassah: software, hardware, anything.
mircea_popescu: that's a little confused.
mircea_popescu: whoa look, bitcoinpete's only been rated since march huh. how time flies.
Rassah: Basically, we have people with reservations about the randomness and security of our entropy devices, despite not actually knowing how it works, and we are hoping to get some of tose people to back up their claims
mircea_popescu: i guess asciilifeform is the guy who's done most re entropy.
Rassah: so tech knowledge enough to be able to check how the software works, and maybe hardware knowledge to know what chips are being used in the schematic
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Is your express purpose for the cam video to get people like Nick Szabo and Taleb to join #-assets?
Rassah: mircea_popescu: I haven't heard a peep from asciilifeform, actually. Most complaints ave been from slush
asciilifeform: !s asciilifeform mycelium
assbot: 5 results for 'asciilifeform mycelium' :
mircea_popescu: wait. were you looking for people with tech expertise or with complaint expertise ?
assbot: Cardano : Xmas blown, other statements pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: footnote 5 prolly of most interest to you
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel yes.
Rassah: mircea_popescu: Typicall they are one and the same. It's rare that people who dn't know whit about a topic shit all over it. Unless they're politicians
Rassah: whit = shit
mircea_popescu: or on reddit.
mircea_popescu: or on the internet. or 20. or having a bad day. or w/e.
FabianB: $mpexstatus
empyex: FabianB: Proxies: MPEx-Status: Error reaching trade engine (change: $proxies <newlist>)
assbot: 401 Authorization Required
Rassah: The only ones on Reddit who brought up issues were the ones I know to have technical backgrounds (sluch, peter todd, a few others who backed up their concerns with actual technical questions). Most everyone else just went gaga over it. I kinda assumed BitcoinPete knew something about cryptography and security, considering his statement, followed by me asking if he'd be interested in doing an audit for us, and him agreeing.
Rassah: Though if he just bloggs, I'm not sure if that will be worth our time or money
mircea_popescu: ;;seen bitcoinpete
gribble: bitcoinpete was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 hours, 16 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <bitcoinpete> Rassah: neat rating comment from theymos "Holds BTC for the forum."
mircea_popescu: guy shows up here about once a day, you can ask him in person and get an idea.
mircea_popescu: !up CheckDavid
mircea_popescu: !up chetty
Rassah: Will do.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i still don't know what it is or what's to go gaga over.
assbot: Thomaston Man Arrested After Stabbing Watermelon: Cops | NBC Connecticut
mircea_popescu: gotta find more humane ways to cut the gourd ?
Rassah: It's a USB stick that you stick into your priner's USB port, it detects a photo, and you hit print, making your printer print a bicoin paper wallet that's never been exposed to the web. Soon as you pull the stick out, the keys are gone for ever
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: hi baby
CheckDavid: Can't I up myself anymore? :p
Rassah: Basically an extremely high level entropy generator that uses that entropy to make secure paper walets
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log
mircea_popescu: Rassah is this thing atmel based ?
asciilifeform: Rassah: what must one do to verify - without a shade of doubt, in personal laboratory - that your device works as described?
Rassah: asciilifeform: Atmel SAM4L series running the software, with random number being generated only from SRAM, in combinaton with other things we're considering, like a salt you can add in a TXT file
Rassah: You can check what the software calls for
asciilifeform: Rassah: generated only from SRAM << your code reads a standalone sram? or atmel claims to produce rng output this way inside a black box micro ?
Rassah: I think standalone sram
asciilifeform: Rassah: I think << you are not the designer of this item ?
Rassah: asciilifeform: No, that would be a few of the Mycelium devs. They described a lot of it to me, since I'm working with them (I'm the one doing the public interraction thing, and running Indiegogo and such)
Rassah: I asked and can relay the Atmel/sram question. I think they are al asleep right now, since they're in Austria
asciilifeform: Rassah: other question. in my own experiments, i found that sram powerup 'static' depends heavily on the die's temperature.
asciilifeform: Rassah: what, if anything, does your product do to verify that rng is actually functioning 'as rated' before bits are used in anger?
mircea_popescu: Rassah probably the better avenue would be for the graybeard in charge to show up here
mircea_popescu: people have tried this "i'm the pr, i'll pass q's along" thing before, it never works well, not necessarily through anyone's specific fault,
mircea_popescu: but things get escalated and magnified.
Rassah: In our tests, it still had plenty of entropy at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero entropy around -20º. Maybe we should put warning stickers on these things saying "Caution - Chaotic System. Do not use in low entropy environments above the Arctic or below the Antarctic circle, unless exposed to external sources of energy" :)
asciilifeform: Rassah, mircea_popescu: then one last question, for if/when he does. value of adjacent sram cells is correlated. what, if anything, was done about this? (my guess - nothing but the usual 'whitening'.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i personally doubt anyone with hardware understanding touched the design, but then again how would i know.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: somebody had to crap out the physical unit.
Rassah: We can store part of the raw entropy into non-volatile memory and
Rassah: compare it on the next run. Since we have about 30 times more entropy
Rassah: than we need, we can afford it. This memory effect is already very
Rassah: unlikely; the probability that 1/20th of the SRAM behaves fine and the
Rassah: other 19/20th are stuck is much lower. Especially if the stored part
Rassah: is taken from a different SRAM area every time.
Rassah: We can also add secondary sources to the mix:
Rassah: - the built-in TRNG; nobody trusts these things anymore as primary
Rassah: sources, and we did not even consider its availability when choosing
Rassah: the processor, but it's there and is probably perfectly fine and
Rassah: random;
mircea_popescu: Rassah try a pastebin srsly.
Rassah: - floating ADC inputs, as Peter suggested;
Rassah: - five independent RC oscillators.
Rassah: Sorry for the line spam
Rassah: copy/pasted from reply
asciilifeform: floating adc inputs << you mean local radio station receiver !
Rassah: asciilifeform: this device was designed and assembled by the people workin on the bitcoincard. They all know hardware extremely wel
kakobrekla: Rassah why dont you get people who are actually doing this thing here before you do more damage?
asciilifeform: rc oscillators << you meant - 'thermometers'
mircea_popescu: so it's using an atmel micro but not for the trng ?
Rassah: kakobrekla: Damage?
Rassah: Ah, got a eply. Seems we'll be using he Atmel provided SRAM after all. And "We will be doing our own analysis of data from several chips, and provide a raw entropy file for those who want to do their own for their specific device." combined with "option to enter a user-supllied salt"
asciilifeform: /me 'we'll be using he Atmel provided SRAM' << has probably read enough.
Rassah: So, we won't be relying on Atmel's RNG, and will be reading their SRAM directly
mircea_popescu: this doesn't sound terribly mature somehow.
Rassah: mature in what way? Completed and researched? Or discussed at present?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, this is your punishment for xmas.
Rassah: Is Atmel really that untrustworthy? Is there a better option?
mircea_popescu: Rassah as in i get the impression things may change or w/e. anyway.
mircea_popescu: atmel is a us producer of black box transistor boxes.
asciilifeform: Rassah: ever encounter the concept of 'auditability' ?
mircea_popescu: this is a poor fit for the application.
Rassah: mircea_popescu: No, the hardware design is finished. Changes are only in software. Initial method of creating keys is done, we are just adding software patches to add more and more entropy sources to this thing.
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
mircea_popescu: software does not add entropy.
asciilifeform: floating adc inputs! am i roasting in some sort of F-student hell now?
Rassah: I mean the chip and the hardware has a lot of stuff in there. The entropy is altready there, but initially we figured the SRAM chip was overkill. The "software adding entropy" meaning we just add more code to grab entropy from more hardware and user sources
asciilifeform: Rassah: user sources ???
Rassah: Yes. If you plug tis device into your PC while holding down the button, it shows up in "flash mode", where instead of just a USB stick with a JPG on it, you get to see all the system and settings files. One of those files is a user provded sald (like diceware) that will be combined with the rest of the entropy sources to produce the final key
asciilifeform: Rassah: 'combined' in what sense?
assbot: DownvCuzIHurtUrFeels comments on PSA: BitBet holding funds past bet resolution date.
asciilifeform: Rassah: let me guess. a hash.
Rassah: key = H(salt||H(entropy)) with H(entropy) on a second sheet of paper so the user can verify it... or something
Rassah: Initially the idea was: Write a salt onto the stick. Then generate key = H(H(entropy_1) + salt) + H(H(entropy_2) + salt), and print all of [key, salt, H(e1), H(H(e1) + salt), H(e2), H(H(e2) + salt)]. (+ could be arithmetic addition or XOR; either should be fine.) The user can then verify exactly one of the outer hashes on an insecure computer, and can verify the additions by hand (literally, pen and paper, no computer)
asciilifeform: Rassah: why are you using whitening (hashing) in rng? and 'because everyone does' is not acceptable answer.
asciilifeform: Rassah: because now your bits are... correlated.
Rassah: Oh, one other answer (one of the techs is awake): We know we're getting sram because we are physically reading it.
asciilifeform: Rassah: do you actually believe that hashing can add (instead of subtracting) entropy?
Rassah: It may reduce entropy, but it inreases he number of attack vectors, doesn't it? Attacker would need both the hardware based RNG and the salt to compromise it
asciilifeform: Rassah: 'we are physically reading it' << how do you know this? that is to say, if both the reader and the sram are on one ic die, how can you substitute, e.g. a fake sram that never flips bits, to test ?
asciilifeform: Rassah: picture a thoroughly, obscenely broken hash.
Rassah: Due to bits not always flipping because of temperature and outside environment, we will be testing for these issues already.
asciilifeform: Rassah: then it doesn't matter what you did to plug in the random bits - they are smeared across the 'ciphertext' (if you will, the hash output) and can be inferred.
mircea_popescu: !up chetty
asciilifeform: Rassah: 'we will be testing' >> how ?
asciilifeform: Rassah: my purpose isn't pedantry. try to apprehend: i buy your product, get a keychain-sized gizmo with a single chip. how do i verify that the package functions exactly as described?
Rassah: I understand. I'm glad you are asking these questions
Rassah: THERE'S someone I finally know!
asciilifeform: Rassah: consider that you are now married to the physical characteristics of a particular model from particular vendor. e.g. next year atmel ships sram that's non-entropic down to -40. without bothering to tell you. or it is 'entropic', but actually picks up Voice of America.
Rassah: The Davi Barket convention standin
Rassah: *Barker
Rassah: asciilifeform: He's writing. Give me a sec
BingoBoingo: Rassah: What I didn't know before is that Priuses have no transmissions, timing belts, or belts f any kind, and reqire practicaly no mainenance other than 10k mile oil changes and 100k brake pad and transaxle fluid changes. Everything else is electric... After $600+ expenses every 3 to 5 years on my Honda Civic, this is awesome. The 60mpg helps too << Transaxel is just a sideways transmission
mircea_popescu: Rassah seriously, this guy can't irc or something ?
kakobrekla: Pirus story rehashed with the new gizmo
Rassah: BingoBoingo: It's three motors in a constantly moving planetary gear setup. The "transmitting" is done by varying input, generation, and torque of he electric motors
mircea_popescu: yah i think that's how they do all the hybrids.
Rassah: Just Prius. Others use plain engine, plain motor, ad connect them with a CVT
kakobrekla: o wait i take that back.
Rassah: Basicaly, normally to get more power, a car (or other hybrids) switch to a lower gear ratio and spin the electric and/or gas harder. In a prius, the gas engine spins faster than the smaler inner engine can keep up, whic cases it to spin backwards, generate electricity, and then that electric is pumped into the big electric engine
Rassah: Here's an interractive animation of it
assbot: Toyota Prius - Power Split Device
Rassah: mircea_popescu: Not realy. The reason I was hired is because they don't have time or patience for that
BingoBoingo: Right, but this arrangement of gears and fluids to drive power to wheels is still a transmission. Even if oddly arranged. Nearly any front wheel drive, front engine car uses the term transaxle for this.
BingoBoingo: Because it is transmission+axle
Rassah: BingoBoingo: I think Prius calls it a transaxle too. But I don't see it as any sort of normal "transmission"
Rassah: After working on cars, this thing is too weird and different (and less problem-prone) to me
mircea_popescu: Rassah well then i guess they don't get to talk about it at all, to no-one's particular detriment.
BingoBoingo: Oh it is abnormal as hell, but because of its role it is still a transmission
Rassah: asciilifeform: from Nikita: Firstly, we'll publish our analysis of data from chips and argue that it should apply to all chips, and whoever wants can get data from his chip and run our tools or make his own. (our device will be fully open source, so anyone can make one if they wish). Secondly, we zero out a word in memory and make sure it's got enough 1s next time. If there was not enough power-off time, sram would retain its
Rassah: state and we'd read 0 and refuse to generate a key. We will check if the amount of 0 > x% and < y% (to check for deep-freeze temperatures) the Closer they are to 50% the better
Rassah: but since the sample amount is very large even a 10% value is technically enough
asciilifeform: Rassah: ask him if whitening is used anywhere.
Rassah: I asked. Can you tell me what whitening is? I'm not that techie :(
Rassah: hashing?
asciilifeform: Rassah: hashing as an attempt to 'distill' entropy.
mircea_popescu: whitening is the process of turning the banal 11111 string into b0baee9d279d34fa1dfd71aadb908c3f
mircea_popescu: which is supposedly "entropic", up until someone tries to put your source through md5
Rassah: asciilifeform: Nikita says we use standard cryptographic hashes. Just for salt, for private and public keys, and other bitcoin specific things
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes. some people, somehow, think this adds 'entropy'
Rassah: We don't use hashing as a source of entropy, no. Only to combine ours with a salt
asciilifeform: Rassah: this is approximately the kind of pattern you end up with using sram on powerup
asciilifeform: Rassah: as you can see - if you turn this into a bitstring by pure 'raster' scan, it will contain mostly zero.
asciilifeform: Rassah: by what means do you 'collect the entropy' ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no matter. von neuman :D
Rassah: asciilifeform: We read the ram data directly
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: von neumann of predictable bitstream is still predictable.
mircea_popescu: but debiased!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: comput von neumann of '0101010101'.
mircea_popescu: i suspect a trick.
mircea_popescu: !up ducky_
mike_c: 00000
mike_c: what do i win
Rassah: asciilifeform: It's a bit white (with 0's), but it's considerably more populated than that. This is the paper that we used to base this one, and it has some examples of the results
assbot: CiteSeerX — Power-up SRAM State as an Identifying Fingerprint and Source of True Random Numbers
asciilifeform: Rassah: we read the paper. (or at least, i did)
Rassah: ok
asciilifeform: Rassah: consider the title of the paper. do you see any apparent contradiction?
Rassah: Hah, Nikita just ran the output from our device as an actual example
assbot: 0000200: 00001011 00101101 11010100 11101010 .-.. 0000204: 11111101 01111100 1 -
BingoBoingo: Rassah: Anyone ever wonder how the hell Brock, whom no one knew much about, got elected to the BF board, when the public either does't know him or hates his guts? To me that says connections of some sort... << 90's nostalgia
Rassah: BingoBoingo: Name one movie (besides Mighty Ducks, where he had a sall cameo) that we was in? I've never even heard of him before bitcoin
mike_c: it's not a cameo if you're not famous
BingoBoingo: Rassah: Some thing where he went in time with knights or some shit. At first I confused him with Thomas Ian Nicholas. I think his popularity stems from this confusion.
asciilifeform: Rassah: not very interesting, i'm afraid. let's see the actual grid values - unprocessed.
Rassah: His movies are shit from what he told me
asciilifeform: Rassah: note that you would need to know the actual physical layout of atmel's die, to draw this picture. do you?
Rassah: asciilifeform: We'll publish those
asciilifeform: Rassah: it would have to be an electron micrograph. taken by somebody other than atmel.
assbot: Auction of - Advertising network
Rassah: Will Atmel know what your seed and other entropy sources are? If not, why does it matter?
Rassah: LOL! Um...
asciilifeform: Rassah: atmel can replace your sram with whatever it likes.
Rassah: won't that cost them way more?
asciilifeform: Rassah: including, e.g. one that functions as an sram on all days but every 5th christmas.
Rassah: and won't that make an excelent opportunity for someone to sell a device just like ours, using their own trusted sram chips? Maybe for more money, but more secure?
asciilifeform: Rassah: but all of this pales in comparison to another little observation. recall pg. 10 of the paper.
BingoBoingo: Rassah: ... Otherwise I don't know what the difference in implementation is between PGP and BTC signing << Other big difference is PGP signing has a nice container for inline signatures attached to signed human readable text of arbitrary length
asciilifeform: Rassah: 'Skew shift is monotonic with respect to temperature. If an increase in temperature makes a neutral cell become 1-skewed, then decreasing the temperature will Fig. 11: This contour shows the probability distribution at 273 K and 323
asciilifeform: Rassah: K, of all cells that are neutral at 293 K. Note that the probability exceeds 0.04 at the highest points; these peaks are omitted to show the rest of the distribution with greater detail. See Section VI-B1 for discussion typically
Rassah: BingoBoingo: -----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Rassah: Comment: Signed by Bitcoin Armory v0.91.99
Rassah: You mean like this?
Rassah: UfcLmLUyQoCbsHWrWqApocg=
Rassah: =/98y
BingoBoingo: Rassah: And different clients produce diffent signoturds and expect different signaturds.
asciilifeform: Rassah: ergo: if i have a sufficiently precise graph of the temperature of your unit over time, i can infer something about the sram and which cells are responsible for the bulk of the input to rng.
mircea_popescu: o look at that, they DO listen.
Rassah: asciilifeform: We've dealt with skew stuff too. I don't remember what it was, but it was addressed (I think we have more than enough enropy to work with or something)
BingoBoingo: !up nanotube
Rassah: BingoBoingo: is weird abou it, but bitcoin-qt, Armory, and Mycelium are all compatible
asciilifeform: Rassah: 'Skew shift is monotonic with respect to temperature. If an increase in temperature makes a neutral cell become 1-skewed, then decreasing the temperature will make that same cell 0-skewed.' << fixed bad paste
BingoBoingo: !up MarcSummers
asciilifeform: Rassah: the skew we're talking about isn't rng output skew - the kind that can be addressed with von neuman's algo, etc. it's the actual physical effect you're using.
Rassah: asciilifeform: From Nikita again: Most cells have too much skew to be useful. We suck entropy out of those whose skew is low. That's why there is ~21:1 cell-to-entropy ratio at room temperature on most devices. They had one device from Microchip IIRC, whose entropy was much lower, but the others were very close to the 20–21 ballpark. We analysed data from MRD SoC, which is in the bitcoincard, and got the same 21:1 ratio. Then I
Rassah: put it in the freezer in the kitchen and collected data while it was cooling down. There was still plenty at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero entropy around -20º. The cells with high skew are those which effectively constitute device signature.
Rassah: We can say that the skews are randomly distributed among cells during manufacture, and then remain fixed; temperature shifts all skews.
BingoBoingo: Rassah: And the last tolerable version of Multibit does something else as well. When PGP/GPG has the ascii armored text block already it just isn't worth trying to replace it with bitcoin signing just to save a few bytes.
asciilifeform: Rassah: your friend has cemented my conclusion. i can figure out which cells are responsible for the device's output, merely by knowing your room temperature over time. and then all we have to do is run brute force over the narrowed set. (a few bits)
Rassah: BingoBoingo: You could just say "Bitcoin address doesn't support encryption, or storing identity inside the key"
mircea_popescu: he could also say "i don't want my signature to be dependent on the code written last year by a bunch of dudebros"
BingoBoingo: Rassah: That too, but I just want to point out that even for signing cleartext, it isn't workable.
mircea_popescu: understandable, especially as pgp has been around for three decades.
Rassah: asciilifeform: So, if I use an entropy device to generate paper walets, you can bruteforce it by recording the temperature in my room???
asciilifeform: Rassah: evidently.
Rassah: I plug it into my printer, and make a paper walet. I put it away, and send money to the paper wallet. Then you......
mircea_popescu: takes the stick, puts it in the freezer, melts it slowly, identifies the flip bits, counts them
mircea_popescu: tries all values of a few bits and finds your key.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was hoping he'd figure it out, without you or i drawing the picture.
mircea_popescu: he's not tech, is he.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: betcha the tech won't read any of this.
Rassah: I am not tech, no. I wasn't aware that these things actually retained any bits when you yank them out
Rassah: asciilifeform: On the contrary, they are reading all of this
mircea_popescu: Rassah it's not that they retain bits. it's that they retain their behaviour.
asciilifeform: Rassah: if you read the paper, you will see that a small minority of sram cells is responsible for most of the 'random' behaviour.
mircea_popescu: all it takes is to find which, and/or count them
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, it may not eve be necessary to capture a particular unit. just one of her 'sisters.'
mircea_popescu: same batch, yea, obv. with a little luck they are exactly identical.
Rassah: So it's a good thing we're not relying on just SRAM fo the entropy then
mircea_popescu: with a little less luck they're identical but physically translated in the plane.
asciilifeform: Rassah: also on voice of america picked up by loose adc inputs?
mircea_popescu: Rassah do you know what the cook said when the people in the restaurant didn't like his shit soup ?
Rassah: asciilifeform: Nikita: Well, yeah, you can narrow the range down to about 8000 bits.
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu leave the bits you dont like? :)
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla lmao good one. but no, it was "thanks god i put some piss in there too, so it's not all shit"
Rassah: :D
Rassah: asciilifeform: Work on this device was started in early September. So we have had a lot of tests on the chips by people who have been working on bitcoin cryptography for years now. So it seems as if they are aware of most of these concerns...
asciilifeform: Rassah: 'they are aware of most of these concerns' << and still did nothing. this, you realize, is an accusation of willful scammitude. not mere ignorance.
kakobrekla: do you go to church Rassah ?
Rassah: kakobrekla: What kind of a question is that?
assbot: "Weird Al" Yankovic - Word Crimes - YouTube
Rassah: Me: You're basically saying that, even if they stole the device and examined it, or stole one that was made right after it with similar chip characteristics, they'd still have 8000 bits of entropy to dea with, making their brutefocing impossible?
Rassah: Nikita: Yes.
asciilifeform: Rassah: what size sram ?
Rassah: From another ech working on this: bruteforcing Ends at > 50 bits for most algos. some primitive ones can be done up to 70 bits
Rassah: Nikita: Total size 32 kBytes, we use about 21 kB as entropy source.
asciilifeform: Rassah: there are not 8000 uncorrelated bits in there.
mircea_popescu: bruteforcing Ends at > 50 bits for most algos. some primitive ones can be done up to 70 bits << wtf nonsense is this ?
Rassah: Different guy who does the software commenting about the software side of it? I have no idea
asciilifeform: there is some typical 'confusion between the warm and the soft' here. the only bits that matter are entirely independent (in the statistical sense) ones.
Rassah: asciilifeform: You will be informed when our sources are released and you are invited to give his opiniion then <<-- Apparently my official statement
Rassah: asciilifeform: "He's wasting your time, that's obvious now." <<- not official statement
asciilifeform: Rassah: so! product sold first. sources published - sometime, maybe - later. interesting.
mircea_popescu: you know, i had told you this won't work about an hour ago.
Rassah: no, sources wll be published before product is out
mircea_popescu: at least the fact that it's been worked on since sept makes me feel a lot better.
Rassah: We have sources, we just don't want cheap chinese knockoffs undercutting us before we even ship
mircea_popescu: how much is it gonna cost ?
asciilifeform: Rassah: wait. you expect that your target market consists of people who would even contemplate buying a knockoff ?!!
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( )
Rassah: asciilifeform: Have you seen the chinese bitcoin mining market?
asciilifeform: Rassah: what do miners have to do with it ?
Rassah: And yes, if the software and hardware is completely open source and public, why wouldn't someone want to sell cheaper knockoffs? We hope we can still sell outs at a premium, due to our reputaton and such, but...
assbot: WANKCOIN | Bank While You Wank!
dub: how did assets miss this?
Rassah: generic hardware is easy to reproduce
mircea_popescu: dub global cooling.
dub: 1.21 jiggafaps
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you got your pm s off or something?
mircea_popescu: dub check it out, #wankcoin
asciilifeform: actually i must admit that i am looking forward to these machines being produced, shipping, selling widely. because apparently there is only one way to educate people - let them piss on electric fence in person.
assbot: - BTC-WKC Market
dub: Sex! Money! Power!. WANKCOIN!!!
assbot: In Bid to Cut Costs, Hospital Creates New Multi-Organ System Failure Clinic | Medical Satire - GomerBlog
Rassah: asciilifeform: I take it you're one of those who thinks the only way to create a paper wallet is to buy a used $100 laptop, use diceware with at least 20 words, use the laptop to hash that into your private key and address, write it down by hand on paper using a hard glass surface, and then burn the laptop?
asciilifeform: Rassah: hash!?
mircea_popescu: dub is the page empty or just too jscripty for me ?
Rassah: asciilifeform: I use "hash" interchangeably with "compute with one of the inputs for the formula being your source of entropy, and the output being your private key
dub: mircea_popescu: works here
Rassah: Or do you think that Bitcoin is not secure, because the bitcoin address is hashed from the private key?
asciilifeform: Rassah: i have a perfectly adequate source of physical entropy. actually a small crate of them at this point.
dub: tl;dr bid is 0.00009875
Rassah: asciilifeform: beer bottles and writin sourcecode while drunk?
BingoBoingo: Rassah: Address is hashed from public key...
mircea_popescu: details.
Rassah: BingoBoingo: I know. Priv > pub > address. I as shortening
Rassah: as = am
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 69 @ 0.0119 = 0.8211 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: If fucking is just about sticking your dick in a hole that accomodates it, I'm just going to get some pipe from the hardware store, saw it into dick length pieces, and sell them pocket pussies. What could go wrong???
mircea_popescu: isn't this fleshlight in nucet ?
kakobrekla: and it does sell.
Rassah: This ting is made for people who are not techy (most of not bitcoiners) who won't be bothered to create a Tails linux distro on a USB, generate addresses on them using Bitaddress or something, printing to a USB connected priner, and wiping the printer. I think this device, where you plug t into your printer and hit print, will make bitcoin a hell of a lot easier to secure for the masses. And it costs a fracton of what the other
Rassah: options are. So, yeah, it's not perfect (with RNG nothing ever is). But it'll help
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No, I'm just cutting the pipe and selling it. A dick fits, what is this thing where a dick needs to do more than fit in something to fuck it. I'm just taking a shortcut.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo actually, here's an idea : silicone recipients filled with vodka.
Rassah: BingoBoingo: IF it's an uncut dick, that should work fine, but you'll have stiff competition from already existing holes, like couch cussons for instance
mircea_popescu: you drink the booze and then fuck the "bottle"
mircea_popescu: "A date in one!"
Rassah: *stiff* competition
Rassah: I seriously hate this keyboard btw... It's a very old microsoft touch-type wireless ergonomic, and it misses the keys around the G and H constantly. But I'm too cheap of a bastard to get a better one. So, please ignore my typos, and don't let them reflect on my grammar skills (I took Latin, damnit!)
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's a shortcut for the consumer. It's the opposite of a shortcut to produce. Doing the minimum is the right way to produce. Never mind we won't polish the burrs off the edges either.
Rassah: bbl as well
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what, you kidding ? just pour the caulk in a shape. cheapest shit ever.
BingoBoingo: Nah, we'll just let people hash their privates...
dub: just sale instructibles for digging dick sized hole in ground
FabianB: Rassah: so it's mainly for the masses who want to store 0.01 btc on a paperwallet
mircea_popescu: FabianB hopefilly more than that, since it'll cost more than 6 bux i imagine
FabianB: probably
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "BTC to top $800 before August" Odds: 24(Y):76(N) by coin, 24(Y):76(N) by weight. Total bet: 11.40823557 BTC. Current weight: 83,014.
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "LTC to $15USD or above before August 3rd" Odds: 6(Y):94(N) by coin, 15(Y):85(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.59913185 BTC. Current weight: 18,143.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "DJI to drop below 16000 before August" Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 34(Y):66(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.620212 BTC. Current weight: 12,319.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Crude Oil to reach $120 before August" Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 22(Y):78(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.90944413 BTC. Current weight: 25,884.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SCRYPT] 309 @ 0.00778049 = 2.4042 BTC [-] {34}
benkay: <ThickAsThieves> not sure his profession // housewife
benkay: <Rassah> so tech knowledge enough to be able to check how the software works, and maybe hardware knowledge to know what chips are being used in the schematic // well if its chips and an rng, asciilifeform's likely to tell you that unless you can inspect the chips (which you can't), you can't make claims about the RNG.
benkay: but i'm just a dog
benkay: <asciilifeform> Rassah: I think << you are not the designer of this item ? // hee hee hee hee i'll just pop this corn
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 310907 | Current Difficulty: 1.733631697850783E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 312479 | Next Difficulty In: 1572 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 51 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 17899784284.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 3.25021
benkay: wow what a logwall
BingoBoingo: Amazing logwall
benkay: amazon assbit
BingoBoingo: Maybe there needs to be a backup instance of assbot named buttsett
benkay: <Rassah> who won't be bothered to create a Tails linux distro on a USB, generate addresses on them using Bitaddress or something, printing to a USB connected priner, and wiping the printer // this is what one calls a "strawman" argument. as a person nominally involved in "public relations" you should never commit such derpitude in public.
benkay: !up Rassah
pankkake: Bitaddress, trusting some random js prng?
pankkake: also, trusting your printer
BingoBoingo: Printers are the worst.
benkay: !up Mats_cd03
Mats_cd03: my nigga
benkay: sup baby
Mats_cd03: laptop with gpg died :<
benkay: baw haw haw
benkay: y u no backup, Mats_cd03
Mats_cd03: i can ddrescue the drive if i cant fix the machine
benkay: do that immediately!
Mats_cd03: i think i can though, just gonna put it through an alcohol bath (i spilled water on it)
benkay: oh for fucks sake
mike_c: didn't you lose the one because you were stoned?
mike_c: *last
Mats_cd03: well yes
benkay: moi?
benkay: don't crypto and drugs
benkay: (do (or crypto drugs))
benkay: don't hate the player
Mats_cd03: no but seriously read the paper
Mats_cd03: skype enables tracking by entities other than nsa
Mats_cd03: cause lol
BingoBoingo: So over a sample size of 2, drunk is less memory bad than stoned
dub: narcocryptoterrorists up in here
assbot: Sander Van Doorn & Firebeatz - Guitar Track (Sam Feldt Remix) [FREE DOWNLOAD] by Sam Feldt on SoundCloud - Hear the worlds sounds
Mats_cd03: oh man that conversation about the usb stick is hilarious
Mats_cd03: alf bout to die
asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: not quite dead. just had to drive home.
Mats_cd03: suffering from 'close enough' syndrome
Mats_cd03: (the usb stick team, anyway)
Mats_cd03: perfection is intellectually difficult, you know
Mats_cd03: i found out today someone i used to play starcraft with patented ASLR
BingoBoingo: Mats_cd03: Not even perfection, merely "good enough" is a challenge in any endeavor
Mats_cd03: what a world huh
Mats_cd03: (Skywing, Ken Johnson)
assbot: Patent US20090254726 - Method of address space layout randomization for windows operating systems - Google Patents
asciilifeform: starcraft with patented ASLR << wtf ?
Mats_cd03: borked english. i found out today someone i used to play starcraft with, patented ASLR
benkay: 1. WoT
benkay: 2. Start business
benkay: 3. List
benkay: hue
asciilifeform: 'a method of address space layout randomization for a Windows operating system.' << lol!
Mats_cd03: i learned today you can sabotage EMET
asciilifeform: !up Mats_cd03
Mats_cd03: SetThreadContext is non-deterministically broken from XP x64 SP0 to Server 2008 R1 x64 SP2
BingoBoingo: !up DoctorBTC
Mats_cd03: cant protect any x64 didnt even test it
BingoBoingo: !up kyuupichan
dub: the real question, is it bongwater in Mats_cd03's laptop
BingoBoingo: ;;seen Cosmos
gribble: Cosmos was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 weeks, 3 days, 5 hours, 31 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <Cosmos> I brought entertainment & then I faded down to a speck of nothing
atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 210 Ask: 242 Last Price: 210 24h-Vol: 0k High: N/A Low: N/A VWAP: N/A
Mats_cd03: sorry... i meant to say it is deterministically broken. the subterfuge is non-deterministic
Mats_cd03: also read this today discusses VM-based packers
assbot: HexEffect, LLC
BigBitz: interesting link, Mats_cd03.
asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: crapware authors went lazy ages ago. most use none - or standard - packers. standard packer -> standard unpacker.
Mats_cd03: as i understand it, vm-based packers are really hard to use properly
asciilifeform: many people write, e.g. a 'mips' (or other small instruction set) emulator and cross-compile for it. when you get hold of one of these, you can just extract the turd and disassemble using toolset for that cpu.
Mats_cd03: most crapware authors simply fuck it up when they try to implement the obfuscation
Mats_cd03: and the use-case for that sort of thing is limited anyway
Mats_cd03: you can do things like look for the VM license. lol.
Mats_cd03: 'in the most amateur sense of 'fucking it up''
assbot: Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal
asciilifeform deals with this crud for a living
Mats_cd03: when my carpal tunnel gets better id like to do it full time
Mats_cd03: although im going to avoid dc at all costs
BingoBoingo: Mats_cd03: How is that going? Find anything that offers more relief yet?
Mats_cd03: its been milder recently, ive been typing a lot less (which means no coding unfortunately for benkay)
BingoBoingo: Rest works in mysterious ways
Mats_cd03: i tried to teach dragon programming in c
BingoBoingo: !up Mats_cd03
Mats_cd03: ended up smashing a keyboard out of a fit of childish rage
Mats_cd03: computers, y u so stupid
BingoBoingo: Maybe you should give up and start keyboarding with your toes
mike_c: keyboards should be able to take a good beating. otherwise they are by (my) definition not fit for professionals.
asciilifeform: mike_c: 'ibm model m' is indestructible, short of power tools
mike_c: one of its charms for sure
BingoBoingo offers a bastard file and patience
kakobrekla: btw mike there is a mod where you can make the model m office safe in terms of noise and the feedback is only slightly affected
Mats_cd03: BigBitz: which one?
BigBitz: the HexEffect link.
BigBitz: relating to VM obfuscating :)
kakobrekla: the way to do is - insert the very thick dental floss (oral b super floss) inside the springs, between 50 and 100% of the height
kakobrekla: worth giving a shot if you own one.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: cheaper to buy the neighbours their own 'model m' each
kakobrekla: defo not cheapers.
asciilifeform: well - cheaper if your time has value.
kakobrekla: well if you count that, depends on the neighbor count
kakobrekla: these boards arent exactly cheap anymore.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: they're still dirt cheap on 'ebay', etc. if you're willing to clean an ancient one.
kakobrekla: nevertheless people will resist using these.
kakobrekla: so you will spend time arguing.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: my recipe: a bucker, dishwasher detergent, soak overnight. wash in cold water. dry overnight.
asciilifeform: *bucket
kakobrekla: and cleaning is time is money again.
asciilifeform: keys & caps off.
asciilifeform: takes ~1/2 hr. total.
asciilifeform: (of actual doing, that is)
kakobrekla: prolly same as the mod :)
kakobrekla: im terminating this conversation now
kakobrekla: ctrl c
BingoBoingo: !up cowloon
BingoBoingo: !up mikaeldice
BingoBoingo: !up Ginux
assbot: Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 183 @ 0.00439984 = 0.8052 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: !up Mats_cd03
assbot: Retargetable Decompiler
assbot: Yahoo quarterly earnings: Plunging ad prices pull down revenue.
asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: 'ida hexray' is the only one i've ever seen that was actually usable for anything practical.
Mats_cd03: mostly average overall but decompilation of asm to c is pretty good
asciilifeform: incidentally, very few products have a monopoly as total as that of 'ida.'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 35 @ 0.02890175 = 1.0116 BTC [-]
Mats_cd03: i cant say i like working with ida
asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: the issue isn't whether one likes it, but whether any practical substitute (other than 'objdump' and 10-100x the time/sweat) exists.
Mats_cd03: add it to the bucket list
copumpkin: asciilifeform: have you seen hopper?
asciilifeform: copumpkin: yes. seemed like a joke (at least in comparison)
copumpkin: how so?
asciilifeform: the decompiler appears to be mostly worthless. and the tool runs only under mac os.
mike_c: kakobrekla: i have heard that the das mechanical keyboards are the modern version of the m, and they have a silent version. i tried one for a few minutes once and liked it. but not ergonomic.
kakobrekla: they use mx switches ?
asciilifeform: mike_c: the recent 'model m' clones are based on lexmark's version. somewhat shoddier mechanically than original.
copumpkin: asciilifeform: yeah, the decompiler output seems kinda flaky and silly. The Mac OS thing doesn't seem like a big deal that makes it a "monopoly"
copumpkin: alternatives exist, and buying a mac and hopper can be cheaper than getting hex rays :P
asciilifeform: copumpkin: don't misunderstand - if there were an actual substitute, and it only ran under, whatever, ultrix, that'd count
mike_c: they use mechanical switches. not sure what mx means
copumpkin: but yeah, hex-rays is pretty good
asciilifeform: but there isn't an actual substitute.
kakobrekla: interestingly, the ergonomic model m goes for about a grand on ebay when it pops up from time to time
assbot: Mechanical Keyboard Guide | Das Keyboard Blog
Mats_cd03: im not good with ida and i cant comment on substitutes, although i have spent a fair amount of time trying (radare, mostly)
copumpkin: well, from what I've seen (i just started tinkering with hopper a couple of days ago, so I dunno), the basic hopper disassembler interface/functionality isn't all that different from IDA's
asciilifeform: what's 'ergonomic' here ?
copumpkin: asciilifeform: unless you like obscure CPUs
asciilifeform: copumpkin: yes, i do a fair bit of non-x86.
copumpkin: non-ARM, non-x86?
mike_c: kakobrekla: yes. "Cherry MX mechanical key switches with gold contacts"
asciilifeform: copumpkin: yes.
copumpkin: ah, then yes
Mats_cd03: as well as a project known as vivisect, which is also python like radare
kakobrekla: which ones did you get? theres like 10 kinds.
kakobrekla: (marked by color)
Mats_cd03: decompiler? not to be seen. but, other RE tools are for the most part available...
mike_c: i tried the that my coworker was using.
assbot: Das Keyboard Model S Ultimate | Mechanical Keyboard
mike_c: blank keys.. so l33t
kakobrekla: check out also wasd keyborads
mike_c: i can't do non-ergonomic
BingoBoingo: mike_c: It's 2014 already. Why are they censoring the keyboard's clit?
mike_c: drives me nuts
asciilifeform: mike_c: what makes a keyboard 'ergonomic' in your view ?
mike_c: i like the split and raised ones
mike_c: BingoBoingo: you lost me :)
kakobrekla: das kbd does not have such one?
mike_c: i haven't seen it, which is why i don't own one.
BingoBoingo: mike_c: A proper keyboard (portable machine or not) ought to have a Thinkpad style clit.
mike_c: interesting. i've never tried the split and flat ones
kakobrekla: you can get those.
mike_c: BingoBoingo: you mean the little rubber dot in the middle? you use that thing?
assbot: 500 - Internal server error.
mike_c: i only use those for bringing to datacenter
dub: <3 the clit
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Occasionally
dub: fuck trackpads
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 200 @ 0.0028299 = 0.566 BTC [-]
dub: clit is useless without stinkpad scroll key tho
BingoBoingo: What does no one have a scroll button on their keyboards either?
BingoBoingo: !up Mats_cd03
mike_c: kakobrekla: wtf :) no wasd keys?
kakobrekla: for hardcore gamers
dub: lol
dub: extra 1mm throw is making me laggy
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 604 @ 0.0028299 = 1.7093 BTC [-]
copumpkin: still not mpex?
dub: scam tbh
mike_c: mpex-otc. wadda you want.
copumpkin: I thought it was gonna be monday
dub: kakobrekla: waiting for diehard cs 1.6 players to take fingers back to first knuckle now
mike_c: wtb: s.mpoe @ 0.0005
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 800 @ 0.0026715 = 2.1372 BTC [-] {20}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 249 @ 0.00263257 = 0.6555 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: Only a few days old, OpenSSL fork LibreSSL is declared unsafe for Linux | Ars Technica
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 255 @ 0.00261288 = 0.6663 BTC [-] {6}
BingoBoingo: !up Mats_cd03
mircea_popescu: so whenever reddit gets inflamed about the injustice of mp, bitbet gets carpetbombed with bets.
mircea_popescu: maybe i should kidnap some of these kids and torture them in my basement, to fix the economy ?
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 but nobody uses skype anyways
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03: SetThreadContext is non-deterministically broken from XP x64 SP0 to Server 2008 R1 x64 SP2 <<< ahahahaha
mircea_popescu: i keep buying the funny papers and reading this chan. then i lol here and i am all disappointed in the funny papers.
mircea_popescu: not to mention they're in fucking spanish.
nubbins`: was just about to ask if they carry Hi and Lois
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 you know you can dictate.
BingoBoingo: Dictation much like keyboarding is a skill.
mircea_popescu: "{to be honest timmy, having read your attempts to make a pump and dump coin, to also make a HYIP scam.. i feel sorry for anyone losing coin... but not so much with you."
BingoBoingo: Most disturbing part about that report was he had a whole BTC to lose.
mircea_popescu: "i downloaded this from here, and clicked on it,while my virus program was not activ.i just wanted to see"
mircea_popescu: impulse driven "halp i am a student i have no monyz"
mircea_popescu: student is becoming worse than bum.
BingoBoingo: The site hosting the malware in question if you make to the end of the thread atm was revealed to be a "cheat" for some coinflip gambling game.
BingoBoingo: You'd think when somone creates the sort of tool he googled and instead recieved a virus for the tool's creator would instead bleed the target dry.
mircea_popescu: mike_c: i like the split and raised ones << i've never used one of the splitsd
mircea_popescu: copumpkin: I thought it was gonna be monday << so did i.
BingoBoingo: !up hanbot
assbot: Only a few days old, OpenSSL fork LibreSSL is declared unsafe for Linux | Ars Technica
hanbot: thx BB
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, it was born knowing it would be the RNG. The problem is do the devs make shims or does Linuxen fix itself
BingoBoingo: hanbot: yw
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: In the comments you can see the new psyops angle, "The cruft was good! Mysterymeat Nourishes!"
mircea_popescu: theo's response is pretty weak too.
BingoBoingo: The problem of taking action to fix a problem is that at some point you will have to take more action.
BingoBoingo: Because you now own 1+N more problems.
cazalla: yo i heard you like #bitcoin-assets so we put mircea_popescu in your dreams so you can #bitcoin-assets while you sleep, no homo
mircea_popescu: wait wut ?
BingoBoingo: << "The question now was how to integrate it. OpenBSD developers don't like huge diffs for a very good reason. After fixing the inode format and adding new flags, Ted pointed out the ancient rule "whoever touched it last now becomes the maintainer" was valid even here."
assbot: g2k14: Martin Pelikan on ext4, filesystems in general
cazalla: mircea_popescu, so i had this dream about you, in a lobby, it was eyes wide shut-esque except you wouldn't let me come upstairs where the women were but then you sent 2 down to me at the bar so i was content
mircea_popescu: pankkake so how much does a bernakoin go for yet ?
mircea_popescu: cazalla o.O
cazalla: logs were a good read this morning
BingoBoingo: Eh, sometimes I have nightmares where truffles is still on BA and somehow IPO'd his hatred of reading.
BingoBoingo: ;;seen truffles
gribble: truffles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 13 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours, and 29 seconds ago: <truffles> tell me when the experiment is over
mircea_popescu: ow god truffles.
hanbot: ba nightmares would make a pretty good compendium
mircea_popescu: did you get some ?
cazalla: who me? no, wasn't that sort of dream
mircea_popescu: no lol, hanbot
mircea_popescu: of course you didn't get some. you're married.
cazalla: tell me about it
assbot: BitBet - BTC to top $800 before August :: 2.7 B (24%) on Yes, 8.73 B (76%) on No | closing in 1 week 5 days | weight: 81`867 (100`000 to 1)
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 621.87, Best ask: 624.48, Bid-ask spread: 2.61000, Last trade: 624.48, 24 hour volume: 3502.82343466, 24 hour low: 616.09, 24 hour high: 626.25, 24 hour vwap: 622.077369513
mike_c: ;;calc 3500*[ticker --last]
gribble: 2185680
mircea_popescu: ;;calc [ticker --last]*[ticker --last]
gribble: 389975.2704
asciilifeform: it was the rng << snore. big fat surprise.
asciilifeform: << what's the reaction here?
danielpbarron is guessing the colored gas is ionized
mircea_popescu: no idea rly.
BingoBoingo is guessing 70's special effects work
asciilifeform: looks more like chromatography paper + dyes.
asciilifeform: (time-lapse film)
nubbins`: i was gonna say colored oil spheres colliding underwater
nubbins`: i guess i still am saying it
Rassah: benkay: this is what one calls a "strawman" argument. // actually this is what is being suggested that people do to create secure paper wallets. I am suggesting that ours is comparable. At the least because people who use that method don't check the RNGs of the systems they use, and at the most because we don't actually use an RNG chip, and use our own source of randomness.
benkay: nobody in this room had suggested that.
benkay: latinate dudebro do you even strawman?
Rassah: benkay: I didn't say that is what is being suggested here. That is, in fact, what is being suggested in places all over outside of here. No one has suggested anything here, other than that the method I am involved wit is worse than...
cazalla: "People think that Bitcoin is too expensive, and they would rather purchase Litecoins. "
assbot: Litecoin's silver analogy
nubbins`: i think that a car is too expensive, i would rather purchase a sandwich
nubbins`: can't drive to work in a sandwich? who cares!
Rassah: It's not even that. The two are just arbitrary measures. It's more like, I think driving at 105kmh is too fast. I'll just drive at 65mph instead
nubbins`: i think repairing my broken relationship with my son is too hard. i'll just have a daughter instead
decimation: re: rolling dice to generate RSA keypair << this is not straightforward at all, and in general you are going to end up seeding some kind of RNG to produce your primes to test
benkay: Rassah: saying that doesn't make it any less of a retarded strawman argument in this context.
benkay: <BingoBoingo> Eh, sometimes I have nightmares where truffles is still on BA and somehow IPO'd his hatred of reading. // interestingly, truffles is a female.
Rassah: benkay: a lot of tings said on the topic of that Entropy device have been very retarded
benkay: mostly on the topic of getting entropy out of sram imho
danielpbarron: Rassah, you interested in selling your BTC for cash in the mail on a regular basis? I am very interested
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 138 @ 0.00420949 = 0.5809 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> i think that a car is too expensive, i would rather purchase a sandwich <
mthreat: Rassah et al: Would an accelerometer be a good source of entropy? "shake to randomize"
mircea_popescu: nubbins` omfg dude i laughed so hard at your stupid driven sandwich i actually puked a little.
mircea_popescu: im not even making this shit up
mircea_popescu: decimation he prolly means just for the entropy.
mircea_popescu: benkay now how would you know that.
Rassah: mthreat: Not as much. Since the motions will be repettitive, you will get only a small amount of variance from that. We had considered something similar, with maybe having to press a button a bunch of times and use the timing diference, but it adds an insignificant amount compared to what we get from the chip already
benkay: intel boss
mircea_popescu: mthreat no. this because the high bytes are too predictable (shake) and the low bytes too predictable (cheap accelerometer fingerprint)
benkay: mircea_popescu: re: truffles?
benkay: conversations.
asciilifeform: nitpick: anything you can 'seed' is not an rng.
benkay: hee hee hee i got the rng flamewards going again
mircea_popescu: benkay eh what, you can tell.
asciilifeform not really awake enough for a good flaemfest. but will point out that mechanical rng setups are prone to wear effects.
decimation: ascii sorry prng
mircea_popescu: anyway, that's been all for me. later all.
asciilifeform: decimation: why would you want to produce weaponized rsa primes from a prng ?
decimation: you wouldn't, if you could avoid it
decimation: ideally you want natural entropy
decimation: and rolling dice would take days
assbot: 6 45 662 28 2013 - YouTube
asciilifeform: ^ notice he says 'лототрон' ~= 'lottotron.' the original, in fact, 'лохотрон' - chumpatron.
decimation: is that the russian powerball?
asciilifeform: originally soviet.
asciilifeform: they've used this kind of 'rng' for decades.
decimation: say you need at least 2 megabits to come up with a 2048 bit prime
decimation: you are only getting ~12 bits per 5d6
decimation: the chumpatron would be more efficient
asciilifeform: i'll take the liberty of quoting the russian 'law re: lotteries.'
decimation: it would be interesting in the soviet version if a coin flip determined whether you got 1 trillion rubbles or a lifetime sentence to the gulag for bourgeois greed
asciilifeform: 'Лототрону не должны предоставляться скрытые (недекларированные) возможности, и в нем не должны содержаться информационные массивы, узлы или агрегаты, недоступные для осуществления экспертизы.' ~= 'a lottotron must not contain hidden (undeclared) func
asciilifeform: tionality, and it must not contain information storage arrays, units, or systems inaccessible to expert examination.'
asciilifeform: 'В лототроне не должны использоваться процедуры, реализующие алгоритмы, которые позволяли бы предопределять результат розыгрыша призового фонда до начала такого розыгрыша.' ~= 'a lottotron must not employ procedures implementing algorithms which would permit a pre-de
decimation: seems perfectly reasonable, except are the internal parts open to examination by the kulaks who buy tickets?
asciilifeform: termination of the result of the prize drawing prior to said drawing.'
asciilifeform: in theory.
decimation: well, everything is deterministic if you have enough information
asciilifeform: seems reasonable re: a lottery, yes? but then you get people who for some mysterious reason disagree when it comes to crypto.
decimation: quite so. I think the yearning to "see" the data being generated (like from the chumpatron) is the right idea
asciilifeform: decimation: likewise, if doubt arises regarding some component, it can be removed, examined, replaced with nominally identical one
decimation: it's hard to find good documentation re: how the hell the linux /dev/random pool works exactly
asciilifeform: decimation: 'the source is the doc'
decimation: yeah, and when you start looking at how the sausage is made it starts to make you feel queezy
assbot: linux/drivers/char/random.c at master torvalds/linux GitHub
decimation: it's probably okay for many purposes but the thing reeks of being a hack
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