Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-04-21 | 2014-04-23 → ↓
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 1343 @ 0.000079 = 0.1061 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00099493 = 23.9778 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.0742218 = 0.3711 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.5 = 5.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00099036 = 3.4663 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2100 @ 0.0009918 = 2.0828 BTC [+]
moiety: !up benkay`
assbot: Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.
benkay`: thanks moiety
moiety: nw :)
benkay`: "Last year, the government of the Republic of Cyprus imposed the equivalent of a tax on bank deposits, only to see the tax contribute to, rather than reverse, the island’s economic struggles."
benkay`: would someone please explain precisely what contributions to struggle the Cypress bail in caused to me?
bitcoinpete: Piketty: “there is no natural, spontaneous process to prevent destabilizing, inegalitarian forces from prevailing permanently.” <<destabilizing permanently is super contradictory
bitcoinpete: "The three decades between 1950 and 1980 were truly unusual; the constellation of economic and demographic variables that produced prosperity during that period will probably not be re-created anytime soon." <<pretty much
bitcoinpete: And I know MP caught my article earlier today, so for the rest of you:
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00099036 = 4.4566 BTC [-]
ozbot: Consumerism: The Great Equalizer – The Legacy of the French Revolution | When Bitcoin Met Pete
bitcoinpete: ;;later tell mircea_popescu you make a good point about the last line. as students of history, we ain't forgettin' shit. i'm tempted to re-write it but then your comment wouldn't make any sense. it did feel a bit off as i wrote it...
gribble: The operation succeeded.
artifexd: !up benkay`
assbot: Voicing benkay` for 30 minutes.
ozbot: "Riders On The Storm:" A Fictional Letter Explaining What Is Going On In Russia | Zero Hedge
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.0009893 = 23.3475 BTC [-] {3}
bitcoinpete: More Piketty: "The simple fact is that large wealth taxes do not mesh well with the norms and practices required by a successful and prosperous capitalist democracy. It is hard to find well-functioning societies based on anything other than strong legal, political, and institutional respect and support for their most successful citizens."
BingoBoingo: jurov: RE: Powdered alcohols
bitcoinpete: cheers for now!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51299 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.50000001 = 1.5 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1052 @ 0.0001344 = 0.1414 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 212 @ 0.0046469 = 0.9851 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 943 @ 0.00013444 = 0.1268 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.044879 = 0.1346 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 25 @ 0.51360264 = 12.8401 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.51687744 = 2.0675 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5254 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.0048197 = 0.241 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3549 @ 0.0009907 = 3.516 BTC [+]
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: the amounts in that article are staggering
moiety: o.o i didn't know thats where Josh spawned from
fluffypony: asciilifeform: that Cardano prototype is REALLY pretty!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 101 @ 0.00478 = 0.4828 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15833 @ 0.00098833 = 15.6482 BTC [-]
fluffypony: "Takes poker. It’s a game which is also an adult activity due to the money involved." <- broke my brain
fluffypony: probably just slipped through the cracks
fluffypony: I've bought a couple of things on CryptoThrift, not blown away by the site but it seems to be a lot better than BitMit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00098833 = 20.8043 BTC [-]
HeySteve: ah that's good to know :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00098833 = 7.5607 BTC [-]
HeySteve: BitMit's closure sucked
fluffypony: BitMit sucked in general
HeySteve: I was a seller there, it's unfortunate there's no way to migrate feedback from shuttered markets...
HeySteve: at the time, the only alternative was CoinGig
fluffypony: best way is to get buyers to rate you on the WoT as well
HeySteve: yeah but where and how is WoT hosted?
fluffypony: ;;later tell moiety did you get your free Denarius from CryptoWimmins yet?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
fluffypony: HeySteve: you'd have to ask nanotube for details, but with the vested interest from all parties in the WoT it isn't going anywhere
HeySteve: sure, it's open source and the data is easily copied, so I guess it could be mirrored easily enough
fluffypony: looks like it's SQLite
fluffypony: so very easy to re-host if necessary
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0659999 = 0.198 BTC [+] {3}
HeySteve: right, well I'd very much like to speak to nanotube in any case, in relation to my project
dexX7: do you know any legit website which allows to sign raw transactions after providing the rawtx + privkey? nothing fancy and the less overhead the better
fluffypony: dexX7: afaik blockchain.info has rawtx support
nanotube: HeySteve: fluffypony: fyi, can grab the db files for backup here: http://bitcoin-otc.com/otc/ and the code for the plugins is here https://github.com/nanotube/supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/
fluffypony: nanotube:)
nanotube: dexX7: you don't want to provide privkeys to any website. :P use a local client.
HeySteve: hey nanotube, thanks :)
dexX7: bci allows to push signed transactions but no signing
HeySteve: nanotube, may I have a word in private?
fluffypony: dexX7: sign offline and then push?
nanotube: HeySteve: sure
dexX7: that's the plan fluffypony. and i'm looking for a way to sign with a minimal setup. like a very simple website + js or similar
fluffypony: dexX7: are you looking to automate it or do it manually?
dexX7: actually i'm writing a tutorial for
ozbot: Redeem multisig txs
fluffypony: oic oic
fluffypony: ok so then can't you use blockchain.info to push it once it's signed?
dexX7: signing via bitcoind is simple but i'd like to cover more ways
dexX7: pushing via bci works of cource but the tx needs to be signed first
dexX7: something like http://brainwallet.org/#tx where you only need to input an unsigned tx + privkey (unfortunally this does not work with brainwallet.org for whatever reason)
fluffypony: brb breakfast
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00098866 = 3.5592 BTC [+] {2}
dignork: dexX7: don't want to beat a dead horse, but puting anythin + privkey into browser is a bad idea, unless for some reason you run it on an oflline machine
dignork: s/oflline/offline hate mornings
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 108 @ 0.00450101 = 0.4861 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 65 @ 0.00450018 = 0.2925 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50851001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 215 @ 0.00449994 = 0.9675 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 23 @ 0.0045 = 0.1035 BTC [+]
ozbot: Keith Saltojanes: WTF Is Bitcoin - YouTube
fluffypony chuckled
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52538 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00098833 = 12.6506 BTC [-]
jurov: <davout> ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR <<< lol I'm not aware TAT took over coinbr :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00098994 = 31.8761 BTC [+] {3}
ozbot: LibreSSL
fluffypony: of course Comic Sans
fluffypony: "This page scientifically designed to annoy web hipsters. Donate now to stop the Comic Sans and Blink Tags"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6678 @ 0.00099122 = 6.6194 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: If you hate comic sans so much why even have it installed?
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: please point to the part of the sentence where I said I hate it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 53 @ 0.00403551 = 0.2139 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 31 @ 0.00431648 = 0.1338 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 23 @ 0.50132825 = 11.5305 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 15 @ 0.029 = 0.435 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00099175 = 31.9344 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: lol so gigaom is promoting coindesk ? oh how very surprising.
mircea_popescu: HeySteve dude wtf, 45mn seriously ?
mircea_popescu: when has gauguin ever sold for 40mn ?
mircea_popescu: there, buy a copper dildo he made for ... 20k usd.
mircea_popescu: Te Po sold for what, half a mil or w/e
HeySteve: it's a tremendous sum
mircea_popescu: !up rabite
assbot: Voicing rabite for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: HeySteve it's laughable.
mircea_popescu: !up sunshyne
assbot: Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.
HeySteve: however, that value was estimated in one of the linked stories I believe
HeySteve: involving the NFL star's ponzi scheme
mircea_popescu: i mean i guess the idea is that bitcoiners are so fucking rich and clueless that they have no idea what's what, so they may throw 100k btc on something worth 1% of that.
mircea_popescu: god knows they've been doing it with all the ipos
mircea_popescu: HeySteve i tell you i dun see it. i estimate it to be worth in the 90-190 btc range. now what ?
HeySteve: well, I don't expect it will sell for bitcoin, more likely for USD if they get their price (which may be lower than their asking)
mircea_popescu: i'll bet you it won't sell for 40mn usd or equiv.
HeySteve: well it's worth what people will pay for it I guess.
HeySteve: heh I don't know enough about fine art to want to take that bet
HeySteve: I'm just reporting what the seller's agent told me
HeySteve: still, anything above 12 million would make it the most expensive thing offered for btc to my knowledge
mircea_popescu: HeySteve don't get me wrong, i'm not laying into you personally or anything
mircea_popescu: jus... doing the topic justice as it were.
Naphex: morning
HeySteve: sure thing, I think many people will have questions at that price especially considering the piece's history
mircea_popescu: Naphex hey
fluffypony: I started a blog that I'm aiming to update extremely sporadically and only when I particularly feel like it
HeySteve: fluffypony I get a server not found error in FF
fluffypony: HeySteve: oh new CNAME, may not have propogated yet
fluffypony: although it is multicast so I dunno, ZA DNS providers are just slow and stupid
cazalla: loads here
mircea_popescu: HeySteve good sign your isp is an asshole.
mircea_popescu: prolly runs you through crappy local dns servers
HeySteve: given the stability of my connection, I'd say it's confirmed they are
fluffypony: HeySteve: who you with? mwub?
HeySteve: yeah fluffypony, although problem could also be on telkom side
HeySteve: mircea_popescu I found another of his oil paintings going for nearly $10 mil
fluffypony: HeySteve: when the wind blows or it rains our connection goes down, welcome to Africa
ozbot: Art auction result for artist Paul Gauguin. Free art prices
HeySteve: fluffypony, yep had a lightning strike and it's been erratic ever since.
HeySteve: phone call interrupts connection but only rings once, etc. very tedious.
fluffypony: we had that, and it turned out that our splitter thingy was bust, Telkom tech just replaced it
mircea_popescu: fluffypony you ever seen white cat/black cat ?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: nope/
mircea_popescu: great somalian film. in it there's a scene where old woman can't talk on cellphone
mircea_popescu: sends daughter to water the pole (ie, pour a bucket of water at base on old wooden pole, no cables there or anything)
mircea_popescu: fixes her problem.
mircea_popescu: film also has interspersed scenes of a hog eating a trabant
mircea_popescu: if you know what those are.
fluffypony: like the car?
HeySteve: fluffypony, don't think it's the splitter, got a new one. think water is getting in the line somehow
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: wife is East German, so I've learnt about a lot of that stuff, especially from her grandparents
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 31 @ 0.00699967 = 0.217 BTC [+] {2}
fluffypony: her grandfather (maternal) was a professor of economics, incredibly gifted man, who is now suffering from dementia
fluffypony: it's quite sad because he'll have these flashes when we've been talking about Bitcoin where he'll understand everything and comment with incredible depth
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00024999 = 0.125 BTC [+]
fluffypony: and then five seconds later forget how to eat properly
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.519998 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "We would also let you know that a letter is also attached to your package. However, we cannot quote its content to you via E-mail for privacy reasons. We understand that the content of your package itself is a Bank Draft worth $800,000.00 USD; in FedEx we do not ship money in CASH or in CHEQUE but in Bank Drafts only."
mircea_popescu: logical.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony that sucks.
cazalla: how old is he fluffypony
cazalla: my opa died last year, his dementia dragged on for about 5 years
fluffypony: cazalla: 75
mircea_popescu: !up Rick__
assbot: Voicing Rick__ for 30 minutes.
fluffypony: shame that sucks
Rick__: looking for arji
cazalla: seems young, my opa was 94
Rick__: ask about my money
fluffypony: cazalla: yeah he has it quite young
mircea_popescu: ;;seen arij
gribble: arij was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 5 days, 17 hours, 10 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <arij> pLambert, yes, pm me
cazalla: according to 23andme, it's my highest risk disease too
fluffypony: I live in fear of that
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic what's crypton do ?
cazalla: i don't tbh as i'm still relatively young and by the time i'm old, perhaps there will be a cure
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 60 @ 0.00179766 = 0.1079 BTC [-] {2}
fluffypony: cazalla: true that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00099382 = 6.3108 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 9 @ 0.0118 = 0.1062 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.0655 = 0.1965 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14074 @ 0.00098819 = 13.9078 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: oh for the love of all that's holy.
mircea_popescu: so there's this romanian rap band, bug mafia. it exists since the 90s, it was one of the first in the sense someone in bitcoin since 2010 is "one of the first". they're to this day the best by a very very fat margin.
mircea_popescu: then one day i use one of their lines as a title for a post, and i get the #1 spot by morning.
mircea_popescu: google is racist, basically.
fluffypony: yeah but wouldn't your competition be lyrics sites?
mircea_popescu: they have their own official site and everything. problem is, they don't have much english support on the web, being.. you know, a romanian language band.
mircea_popescu: this would be the definition of racism : 10 units of e + 1 unit of r is more than 0e + 100 r.
fluffypony: I wonder if your post would show up first for Romanian language results
mircea_popescu: problem is [most] everyone in romania uses english google
mircea_popescu: (and english kbds, for that matter)
Naphex: mircea_popescu: BUG Mafia, you repping mircea?:p
fluffypony: quite unlike the Germans who won't use it if it's not in German
mircea_popescu: because w/e, romanians were liek teh first on the internet.
Naphex: always tought you a Parazitii man
mircea_popescu: fluffypony exactyly the opposite yeah
mircea_popescu: Naphex i actually like them both. which i guess is somewhat rare.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony as far as romanians are concerned, the 90s were spent going "da-i romaneasca ?" ie, does it suck ?
mircea_popescu: maybe that's starting to fade, but defo hasn't yet.
Naphex: next year
Naphex: had my own party this weekend, chilling and doing nothing at all :)
mircea_popescu: kinda rthe idea
mircea_popescu: some peeps' first encounter of the proper european lunch, where you spend a few good hours with your food.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 924 @ 0.000135 = 0.1247 BTC [+]
fluffypony: it's the only way to eat
fluffypony: it should almost blend into supper time, so you top it off towards the evening without needing to eat an entire other meal
mircea_popescu: either that or move to drinking.
mircea_popescu: a btw, to bother everyone : local isp just unveiled its easter surprise w/e.
mircea_popescu: 200mbps. 19euro.
bounce: glass? symmetric?
mircea_popescu: glass yeah. no, you get like 1/8 that ul.
mircea_popescu: you can get it symmetric, but it's not really useful or needed for most end users.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: in oradea Tesari/RDS has Fiberlink 1G/s at 59RON
Naphex: ~16USD
mircea_popescu: AND they will layer it for you. you can get 1tbps both ways in this country, and it won't break your bank.
fluffypony: jealous.
mircea_popescu: Naphex lol
fluffypony looks at his 4mbps connection currently syncing at 2.4mbps
mircea_popescu: fluffypony yeah. ppl are liek... "how come romania?!?!" and i'm like... dude, how long you got ?
mircea_popescu: Naphex oradea is like rds homebase is it ?
Naphex: yep
mircea_popescu: better juice closer to the plant :D
Naphex: it started here, with TVS (The TV network)
mircea_popescu: actually upc arguably started as astral, which you know... got started by the father of a chick i was doing back in hs
mircea_popescu: he hated me.
Naphex: hehe
bounce: it doesn't really make sense to throttle the uplink on glass, though. it's likely just throttled gigabit.
Naphex: is there no RDS in TM?:)
bounce: good for the gamer kids though, "low ping"
mircea_popescu: Naphex sure there is.
mircea_popescu: bounce they save on gear upstream is all.
mircea_popescu: see, for instance, the whole town is full of fiber spools hanging from poles
mircea_popescu: because rather than buy the cutter they just don't cut it.
mircea_popescu: spool it up, stick it in the box.
bounce: like you're ever going to take it out and put it somewhere else. even so, throttling the uplink doesn't really buy you much of anything, hardware wise
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00098533 = 7.8826 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: no, but it does bw wise.
mircea_popescu: romania could, on the basis of end user installed gateways, nuke the rest of hte planet off the internet
mircea_popescu: and... it would.
Naphex: its true :)
mircea_popescu: just imagine you have something like 10mn customers doing 1gbit uplink each
mircea_popescu: and now find me a peer that'll relay this.
bounce: depends on how the transit agreements work. some places actually liked generating more bandwidth "the other way", as it pushed the balance a bit more towards evening out
mircea_popescu: so basically, if they actually allowed the uplink they'd have to have a filtering datacenter.
mircea_popescu: cheaper this way.
mircea_popescu: (and even if it isn't, i'm pretty sure that's their rationale)
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bitcoinpete you're #10 on a google search for "bitcoin pete". while your twitter acct is #1.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: google is racist : it will push profiles in twitter BUT NOT facebook. it will push wikipedia articles.
mircea_popescu: basically it has a shortlist of websites that it gives preferential treatment to.
mircea_popescu: curious how long till the lolsuit.
Naphex: they have been doing that for ages
Naphex: twinking PageRank for domains
Naphex: that that product split with Google Now / Google
Naphex: then they merged together in the current version, which will always have preferential PageRank
mircea_popescu: Naphex but see, that's the snag : they used to do it as a per-domain page rank thing.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile they took that out,
mircea_popescu: and simply replaced with a handwritten list, either our friends or everyone else.
Naphex: yep you get filtered down and placed in a bubble
mircea_popescu: benkay`:
mircea_popescu: not i, not this year. i took some gents with whom i work up to the mountain for 4 days of drinking and talking about what the ever loving fuck we want to do for the next 3-7 years. << so you had brosex.
mircea_popescu: "Bringing Cryptocurrency To Women Worldwide, CryptoMoms.com Launches" ahaha how fucktarded can you get.
mircea_popescu: the better women aren't moms, yo.
mircea_popescu: HeySteve: I was a seller there, it's unfortunate there's no way to migrate feedback from shuttered markets... << which is why wot.
mircea_popescu: dexX7: bci allows to push signed transactions but no signing << there's a reason for this. you shoulodn't be providing privkeys.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yeah that's exactly what I said
mircea_popescu: yeah i see
fluffypony: although tbh I don't know why sites like that and BTCJam etc. don't just integrate with the WoT
fluffypony: instead of reinventing the wheel (and doing so badly)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 58 @ 0.00743106 = 0.431 BTC [+] {2}
HeySteve: mircea_popescu, quite so. I spoke to nanotube about integrating WoT with a cryptocurrency
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 24 @ 0.00750003 = 0.18 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: HeySteve i don't follow ? the wot is integrated with any cryptocurrency as it is. i can and have rated people for say... atc deals.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony because idiocy.
HeySteve: sure, but putting the identity and associated ratings into a blockchain
HeySteve: been working on this for a while
mircea_popescu: fluffypony and in the case of btcjam, because they know they're running a scam platform. it'd make no sense to take any steps that make this more obvious than it actually is.
mircea_popescu: HeySteve so like a sort of a db backup maintained distributedly ?
HeySteve: yep that's it
mircea_popescu: i know nanotube was working on a wot 2.0 that'd be distributed and not depend on him
mircea_popescu: seeing how he's all old and frail and will eventually go.
HeySteve: and associating costs with establishing an identity and rating people may improve the system slightly
HeySteve: I have a further idea to incentivise non-scammy behaviour too
mircea_popescu: incentives do not belong in the wot.
mircea_popescu: gotta keep it separated
HeySteve: hmm, why do you say that?
mircea_popescu: why do i say what ?!
HeySteve: <+mircea_popescu> incentives do not belong in the wot.
mircea_popescu: because the wot is the measure of how people respond to incentives, it makes no sense to change its neutrality to add incentives for particular responses.
Apocalyptic: can't agree more
HeySteve: ah. well as I see it, bad behaviour leads to negative rep which makes future trades less likely and the inverse is true. that's how I use the term incentives.
mircea_popescu: that's exactly how it works now.
HeySteve: right, but my idea is to augment that
mircea_popescu: let me make this point clearer through an example. suppose i go to a village in somalia. this village has 100 people and they're all normal people, they do good and bad things by w/e definition of good and bad.
mircea_popescu: i own more money than the entire village is worth, a million times over.
mircea_popescu: so i say to these people : each day you only do good deeds, you will receive your average yearly income. but for every bad deed you do, you get fined x% of that.
mircea_popescu: now, this obviously will make everyone do nothing but good deeds (presuming rational actors),
mircea_popescu: but it will also make it impossible for women to pick mates.
mircea_popescu: because... well... what the fuck, everyone's doing good deeds whether they're good men or not.
mircea_popescu: and so through incentivising good behaviour i managed to... break the wot.
mircea_popescu: once i leave that village is fucked.
mircea_popescu: and now you also understand why western aid ruins africa.
fluffypony: incentivised ratings also opens the incentives themselves to Sybil attacks, no?
mircea_popescu: exactly.
fluffypony: all I need to do is create a number of fake actors and claim they only did good deeds today (each fake actor supporting the other) and I receive average yearly income * the number of fake actors I've created
HeySteve: sure, but in the WoT there is no cost to create sockpuppets
mircea_popescu: exactly.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 50 @ 0.52420746 = 26.2104 BTC [+] {11}
HeySteve: right, to register an identity within this system there would be a BTC cost
fluffypony: HeySteve: yes
fluffypony: but spotting the sockpuppets is easy
mircea_popescu: HeySteve this counterintuitively makes your system weaker.
mircea_popescu: because the cost is not a discouragement to the sybil, if it has a way to turn a profit
mircea_popescu: but it IS a discouragement to the legit members.
HeySteve: fluffypony I have studied that article in some depth
mircea_popescu: and so through adding a cost you're actually skewing it towards scammers.
HeySteve: well, I want to make the signup cost vastly more expensive than the cost of earning rep through good behaviour
fluffypony: so then you're chasing away legitimate users
mircea_popescu: this does not speak to the problem.
fluffypony: I won't pay to use the system when there's a perfectly good free one I'm already on :-P
HeySteve: heh well, I hope we can satisfy such concerns and build something useful
HeySteve: appreciate discussing it with people who understand the WoT in depth
mircea_popescu: HeySteve understand tho : this is not quite unlike solid state physics, or radioastronomy.
mircea_popescu: i can respect your desire to build a better process for refining hahnium, or for resolving doppler aberrations in telescopy.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, these are not tasks of the same nature as mowing the lawn.
Naphex: while we're talking incetives, any opinion on a good referral system for bitcoin exchange users?
mircea_popescu: Naphex referrals markets is a TOTAL mess in btc.
fluffypony: Naphex: what do you mean? like an affiliate-style system?
mircea_popescu: bitbet has a very sweet one, and it's barely used.
mircea_popescu: that's actually one major thing to do. yo fluffypony what did you do for a living ? or cazalla ?
Naphex: some customers keep asking for one
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: one of the directors of a small group of companies, of which OpenRigs is a part
Naphex: more like just rewarding users for inviting other users
mircea_popescu: someone with 10 years as an aff manager has to make fucking bitcoin clickbank
fluffypony: agreed
fluffypony puts it on his list of future projects
mircea_popescu: affiliate advertising is going to be major in this space, and currently it's way the fuck nowhere.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52898999 BTC [+]
Naphex: well i was just thinking, rewarding inviters with 0.0001 upon each withdrawal by an invitee
Naphex: some incentive there o.o
fluffypony: Naphex: I've seen some REALLY good affiliate systems that do very small lifetime rewards
fluffypony: eg. for every referred customer you get 2% of their fees forever
Naphex: along the lines where i was thinking:P
fluffypony: small enough that the guy referring one or two customers won't care
Naphex: but we run 0% comission soooo :)
fluffypony: but at scale it's amazing
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
fluffypony: Naphex: so your fees are withdrawal only, no trade fees?
Naphex: no trade fees, some fees at withdrawal fiats, and 0.0001 at BTC withdrawal
Naphex: fees for fiat withdrawal are basic bank fees
fluffypony: are you priming the system to attract an audience before raising fees, or are you just very altruistic company?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you there ?
Naphex: fluffypony: we are raising fees at some point
fluffypony: Naphex: it's going to be tough to incentivise affiliates without that, rock and a hard place scenario
HeySteve: perhaps I'm being thick but I don't see how http://trilema.com/2012/adnotated-words-of-wisdom-on-the-topic-of-online-fraud/ applies to blockchain WoT. Nigerians pic made me lol though
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 265 @ 0.00084295 = 0.2234 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: HeySteve it applies to the problem of putting a cost on the user.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony the romanian expression is "suntem pe investitii"
Naphex: :))
HeySteve: well, in terms of WoT there is a time cost to registration with gribble
mircea_popescu: to translate this, some history : romania was a communist country. to get it on a capitalist system, anyone not fucktarded enough was simply given money, from the state.
mircea_popescu: yes, just like that.
mircea_popescu: if you had any sort of a clue and could talk the talk of business, you just got money.
mircea_popescu: exactly the way i handle btc, incidentally. just don't sound like the lumpens and you'll be okay.
mircea_popescu: this resulted in all the moral hazard you might expect, but also into the most fiscally stable country in europe, and with stores of physical gold per capita well above everyone else
mircea_popescu: one of the edge cases of that moral hazard were idiot "business men" who thought they actually have a clue, but in fact were products of a fortunate environment like that.
mircea_popescu: notably, some of these magnates "invested" in media.
mircea_popescu: their investments fared about as well as neobee's, a few degrees of magnitude larger.
mircea_popescu: one of the best examples is a fellow known as varanul, ie dan voiculescu
Naphex: hehe
mircea_popescu: this schmuck was given something to the tune of a few bn usd, and ten years later he had to have a very embarassing 100mn sent to him in the middle of the electoral campaign,
mircea_popescu: because he was out of fucking money.
mircea_popescu: think about it, you give a schmuck 1bn and legal immunity, you'd fucking expect he can pay you 100mn a year for the rest of all eternity.
mircea_popescu: not this guy tho.
mircea_popescu: and not the only example, either.
mircea_popescu: and hence, the "suntem pe investitii" expression, which is what said idiots said about their media "empires", for 3-4 years
mircea_popescu: "we're in investment mode"
fluffypony: crazy
mircea_popescu: then suddenly they ran out of money, the bottom fell out of the market, and the 20-30k or so idiots who really thought there can exist such a thing as a "career in media" upon the basis of which they could like... take bank loans and buy houses and cars
mircea_popescu: discovered they have to suck my cock for a soup each day they wish to eat a soup.
fluffypony: sounds like that 17 year old "CEO" from the other day
mircea_popescu: not so far off. one of the schmucks made petrom, which is exactly copied after bp
mircea_popescu: even to the logo.
dexX7: <mircea_popescu> someone with 10 years as an aff manager has to make fucking bitcoin clickbank < what is a clickbank?
mircea_popescu: rompetrol im sorry not petrom
Naphex: which got sold off tooo OMV in early 2006
fluffypony: dexX7: affiliate marketplace, basically
mircea_popescu: dexX7 this is where we google ?
mircea_popescu: Naphex check that shit out, they evenb have the entire coin* bit* issue going
mircea_popescu: im confusing rompetrol and petrom like i'd confuse bitfuck and fuckcoin
dexX7: oh i assumed you made this word up
mircea_popescu: anyway, to close that up : perhaps the most lucid of thoise 20-30k idiots is a fellow named cristi parvan. this guy http://www.parvan.ro/
Naphex: i never read blogs, or cared much about them
Naphex: where are you pulling this guys out of O.o
Naphex: :D
mircea_popescu: you see, i had an intel department for years before i found bitcoin
mircea_popescu: overnight success is the result of fortunate coincidences like that.
mircea_popescu: !up hansi001
assbot: Voicing hansi001 for 30 minutes.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: running intel on what?:p
mircea_popescu: well yes.
mircea_popescu: <HeySteve> well, in terms of WoT there is a time cost to registration with gribble << more like an intellectual cost. this is good, because idiots don't manage to figure out how to do it, which serves us and them.
mircea_popescu: replacing that with a financial cost only works if you live in a functioning market economy,
mircea_popescu: which is an economy in which the government accounts for 1% or less of the gdp
mircea_popescu: !up awrelll
assbot: Voicing awrelll for 30 minutes.
HeySteve: I hear what you're saying about the IQ barrier of GPG. we don't aim to replace that, only add to it
awrelll: FixmypcRO here
mircea_popescu: aha. so tell me about your aff manager experience.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00098645 = 12.8239 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: awrelll mircea_popescu> aha. so tell me about your aff manager experience. << this was for you.
davout: hi all
fluffypony: davout: bonjour
HeySteve: hello
Naphex: hey
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: home safe?
davout: Naphex: i was a little disappointed to not see you in timisoara
Naphex: davout: i would've come but it was all out of VIP tickets
Naphex: hehe
Naphex: its only a 1.30 -> 2h drive to there
Naphex: but next year
awrelll: salut, nu am inteles foarte clar ce anume cauti, eram interesat de o colaborare in caz ca sunt potrivit
davout: next year might be quite a longer drive :-)
mircea_popescu: awrelll you speak english ?
awrelll: i do
mircea_popescu: cool. so. tell me about your experience as an affiliate manager.
Naphex: bit of a stage fright there i figure
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4462 @ 0.00098645 = 4.4015 BTC [+]
awrelll: i am not sure if i qualify, i wanted to know more about this, sorry if i am wasting your time
ThickAsThieves: hello folks
Naphex: hey o/
davout: ThickAsThieves: hi
mircea_popescu: well basically the idea is i need someone with significant experience.
ThickAsThieves: i've got some catching up to do
mircea_popescu: jesus they voice everyone in here these days. ThickAsThieves when did you get out!
ThickAsThieves: just woke up after catching up on personal life and sleep
ThickAsThieves: <+fluffypony> ThickAsThieves: home safe? /// i think the airport gifted me a cold
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: that's the worst :/
ThickAsThieves: we'll see if it takes full form
mircea_popescu: mpoe-pr got one too.
ThickAsThieves: for now just an itchy nose
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0659989 = 0.132 BTC [+]
Naphex: so how'd you guys enjoy Romania?:)
davout: Naphex: Romania is very nice
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06434114 = 0.193 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52 BTC [-]
Naphex: did mircea take you out to see the vampires and cheeky girls ?:)
ThickAsThieves: Romania was enjoyable
ThickAsThieves: pretty, walkable
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.52 = 1.04 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: no vamps tho
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.52 = 1.04 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6374 @ 0.00098529 = 6.2802 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.52892571 = 3.7025 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate davout 3 bitcoin-central, puts the french back in the fries
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user davout has been recorded.
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate kakobrekla 3 pumps the #bitcoin-assets blood, bitbet
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: no vamps tho << should've gone with me on expedition at night. i flushed out the wild dog packs that i -knew- existed.
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate asciilifeform 3 makes stuff for No Such lAbs, intellectual and storyteller
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user asciilifeform has been recorded.
davout: asciilifeform: did they accept you as their new leader?
asciilifeform: davout: i was too big. they were all little beagles, other miniature animals
davout: asciilifeform: it's not the size, it's the smell that counts :D
asciilifeform: funny these beasts - the dogs 900km east, of my childhood, were active in the day.
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate mircea_popescu 3 MPEx and other businesses, a most reliable voice of reason
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 1 to 3.
asciilifeform: other phun phact - the weirdo allergies i suffered since 1995 shut off like a light bulb when i landed in Ro.
asciilifeform: me sorry carcass hates teh 'new world.'
mircea_popescu: most us allergies are allergies to the us.
asciilifeform: i suspected that this was literally true, for my own case
asciilifeform: now, know.
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate mike_c 3 Making cool stuff yet to be seen by the masses, ATC supporter
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: i just wonder if large scale gmo will also yield some mutant hay fevers
mircea_popescu: maybe you can get bubonic hay fever
asciilifeform: whatever the crud is, it gives me problems year round here.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.52979 = 5.2979 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: a nerdier man would have brought home air samples.
mircea_popescu: spectrometry ftw!
mircea_popescu: !up rammy2k2
assbot: Voicing rammy2k2 for 30 minutes.
rammy2k2: salut mircea_popescu
davout: "a nerdier man would have brought home air samples." <<< lmao
mircea_popescu: davout im kinda curious what the difference'd be.
asciilifeform: lol, could be something more interesting (washington too close to equator by x km; magnetic field crapolade; etc)
mircea_popescu: course you need a pretty large air sample to get anything usable at the ppb range
mircea_popescu: ;;google washington dc latitude
gribble: Latitude and Longitude of U.S. and Canadian Cities | Infoplease.com: <http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001796.html>; 107 World cities by latitude: Things line up in surprising ways: <http://www.priceoftravel.com/1063/107-world-cities-by-latitude-things-line-up-in-surprising-ways/>; List of cities by latitude - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: (1 more message)
davout: mircea_popescu: the air sample thing kinda contradicts the discussion about how some stuff could be developed to work only in certain places, maybe that's the case for allergies too
mircea_popescu: 38 5377 02 vs 45.7597° N, 21.2300° E
asciilifeform: hell knows, maybe i need 50hz mains hum instead of 60.
asciilifeform: that's the problem with systems.
mircea_popescu: but that wouldn't reallhy be an allergy.
mircea_popescu: kinda need a protein
davout: asciilifeform: just be pragmatic, move to romania, there's this beagles pack that patiently awaits its master's return
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate jurov 3 CoinBr, Coinroll, helped me transfer shares at times, kept me safe during a Bitfunder scare
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 1 to 3.
asciilifeform: lul, me canine army awaits.
mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 you speak english ?
rammy2k2: for shizzle
rammy2k2: sure
mircea_popescu: cool. so tell me about your aff manager experience ?
asciilifeform: ;;rate jurov 1 live human!!
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gribble had a glitch so it went offline so it lost auth sessions
rammy2k2: well, i've been working in adult industry for some years, affiliates , dunno if it applies on what u need, but i was curious :)
ThickAsThieves: is wao's handle wao?
mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 adult works. who've youy been working for ?
asciilifeform: ;;gpg eauth asciilifeform
gribble: Request successful for user asciilifeform, hostmask asciilifeform!~asciilife@pool-71-191-246-235.washdc.fios.verizon.net. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/B98228A001ABFFC7
Naphex: rammy2k2: you run bitcoin-romania.ro forum? right same rammy?
rammy2k2: Naphex: yes :)
rammy2k2: i try to
Naphex: hey o/
Naphex: get SSL working in that :)
asciilifeform: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:be89bf44d68bee3cb3c28e4fe995f38c33062d50324afe88a6a293b4
gribble: You are now authenticated for user asciilifeform with key B98228A001ABFFC7
asciilifeform: ;;rate jurov 1 live human!!
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user jurov has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: i guess you two have some business to conduct ? :D
rammy2k2: mircea_popescu: streamate, money tree, chaturbate
mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 when, for how long, gimme some highlightds
asciilifeform: ;;rate mike_c 3 live human, cellular automata, jolly good fellow
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.
rammy2k2: mircea_popescu: i quitted adult like 1 year ago, since i got seriously into this disease called crypto
rammy2k2: worked for like 5 years
mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 when you started adult is more interesting. who were you on gfy ?
rammy2k2: still am
mircea_popescu: same handle ?
Duffer1: hello
rammy2k2: seXXXhub
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 hey
asciilifeform: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 live human, ate synthetic food, jolly good fella
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 3.
rammy2k2: had some troubles with zombaio, but who didnt ? :))
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.0659989 = 0.132 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: rammy2k2 to be clear, were you working as an affiliate manager for any of these programs you mentioned, or simply used them as an affiliate ?
rammy2k2: Naphex: are u on my forum ? :)
rammy2k2: oh, simply used them
rammy2k2: in what area u need stuff to be done ?
mircea_popescu: in the area where someone with 10 years' experience being an aff manager, and whom i can verify worked with programs i know and delivered results, is looking to start a biz.
mircea_popescu: you're not that guy, you're some guy that joined gfy in 2011.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sends daughter to water the pole (ie, pour a bucket of water at base on old wooden pole, no cables there or anything) << engineers call this 'Kansas phone problem' :
rammy2k2: mircea_popescu: yea, i guess i aint :)
rammy2k2: ill idle around here if thats ok , i have a feeling we can have some nice chats
mircea_popescu: read the logs while at it.
rammy2k2: how many bots around here ?
fluffypony: way too many
fluffypony: <- bot
mircea_popescu: lol. like 3
fluffypony: just a reasonably intelligent one
rammy2k2: cool, i always apreciate AI
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: spectrometer << the one fellow who did get a little thorough arsework in the queue at Dulles with me, did in fact pack one!
asciilifeform: phun phact: as a student, i once seriously planned to build a pocket gas chromatographer, to pick up gurlz. how!? to do this - exercise for alert reader.
asciilifeform: ;;google histocompatibility sweat
gribble: Major histocompatibility complex and sexual selection - Wikipedia ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_histocompatibility_complex_and_sexual_selection>; Major histocompatibility complex genes, symmetry, and body scent ...: <http://www.oxfordjournals.org/page/5003/18>; MHC genes, body odours, and odour preferences: <http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/9/1269.full>
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought you were just gonna check if they're ovulating
Naphex: hey so who was running bitcoincharts?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the point of carrying minesweeper isn't usually so you can jump on the best mine.
Naphex: ;;seen tcatm
gribble: I have not seen tcatm.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform where's your sense of adventure.
mircea_popescu: ;;rated tcatm
gribble: You rated user tcatm on Tue Feb 28 12:40:39 2012, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: bitcoincharts fellow, sold me adspace..
asciilifeform: and see, if i had this in me pocket, could've found which of the twelve beagles would relay orders to my canine empire.
mircea_popescu: that guy
fluffypony: asciilifeform: so like this http://vimeo.com/31688625
asciilifeform: no, this
ozbot: Scent of a Man | DiscoverMagazine.com
asciilifeform: it was a good job that my net worth was a few zeroes short of actually building this bugger then.
davout: ;;rate tcatm 1 bitcoincharts, been around a while
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user tcatm has been recorded.
asciilifeform: because the device ended up working -without being built-
mircea_popescu: i know right ? i can taste it on them if we're compatible too
mircea_popescu: no need for test gear.
asciilifeform: how: the creature i now keep as a pet was intrigued by the idea, when we met.
mircea_popescu: (says stan from within his carry on cage)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you're Carl Wilhelm Scheele, we knew.
asciilifeform: chemist hero who tasted everything he made
davout: mircea_popescu: LOL
mircea_popescu: speaking of "Testing everything", my fav robotzi episode of all time :
ozbot: RObotzi.S03.Ep13.Sugstanta - YouTube
asciilifeform: '...a detection unit contains three concealed cartridges, each of which houses eight mice. During their 4-hour shifts in the detector, the mice mill about in a common area in each cartridge as air is passed over people paused in the archway and through the cartridge...'
ozbot: Sniffer mice have a nose for explosives - tech - 03 February 2011 - New Scientist
asciilifeform: i like to imagine that certain people are destined to end up in cartridges
davout: on an unrelated note : "Romanians, not so peaceful after all" -> http://i.imgur.com/nHTqQkA.jpg
asciilifeform: speaking of which, does any in the pile of MIGs at TSR airport actually start?
asciilifeform: (finding where they sit - exercise for alert reader)
mircea_popescu: davout no ak47 :p
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform those migs not anymore, because they've been gutted for parts.
asciilifeform: good, might be for sale then!
ThickAsThieves: Vault of Satoshi now allows real-time auditing it seems
asciilifeform: washington airport muppetron: 'sir, anything to declare?' me: well, just this...
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: yeah noticed that
fluffypony: quite nifty
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves bitbet model ? published addresses, you can traverse chain at your leisure ?
Naphex: i think they just published their cold wallet
HeySteve: that robotzi show has cool animation, reminds me of this: http://amanita-design.net/games/machinarium.html
mircea_popescu: HeySteve yeah very competent team there.
fluffypony: Naphex: yep, no hot wallet details "for sekuritee"
mircea_popescu: o hey look at that, sorta dott. HeySteve is it released ?
mircea_popescu: Naphex so basically what is it, an address with a sum that signed a message ?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yep for quite a while, great game
HeySteve: yep, I think I finished that one
fluffypony: played the iPad one for hours figuring stuff ou
Naphex: mircea_popescu: they just made public their cold wallet, so people can check they have the funds
Naphex: that it as far as i know
mircea_popescu: but.... maybe they made public MY cold wallet ?
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves bitbet model ? published addresses, you can traverse chain at your leisure ? /// You can verify cold wallet and your own personal balance. You cannot verify hot wallet though ("security reasons").
asciilifeform: right, we can all write this kind of 'vault'
Naphex: yeah, don't think they signed it yet
mircea_popescu: well in that case they did exactly nothing ?
ThickAsThieves: they didnt sign it
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood you brought the news. i was askin'
Naphex: people can check what balance 'their' cold-wallet has, rawr rawr, everybody's auditing
Naphex: :P
mircea_popescu: tryin to keep up with all the innovative innovations
ThickAsThieves: trouble is you can only see this if you have an account
ThickAsThieves: i do not plan to make one
mircea_popescu: it's almost as if thery go to a dedicated university to be stupid, these people.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27350 @ 0.00098446 = 26.925 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: this has to be the result of training, methodically making the wrong choice on every turn is not something that can be explained by simple randomness
ThickAsThieves: it works out okay if youre marketing to stupid people though
mircea_popescu: well sure. marketing to people who went to the same school as you did always works well.
asciilifeform: one of you told me that the fellow behind 'vault' (argentinian?) has actual brain. so does he keep it in a case, buried in the garden with kalash? or use it for other ventures? because 'vault' doesn't reveal evidence of its use.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform vault of satoshi is unrelated to that guy afaik
davout: fluffypony: yeah, that's just a clever way to present the data
mircea_popescu: who's olalonde ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.0644536 = 0.2578 BTC [-]
davout: apparently some french guy that was smart enough to move to china
mircea_popescu: Specification
mircea_popescu: Work in progress.
mircea_popescu: so can i just copy the html page saying success, much coin excess ?
mircea_popescu: since this seems to be server side
davout: mircea_popescu: still beats the "specification is useless because code" approach
mircea_popescu: gotta love this.
mircea_popescu: ok, this is a fucking scam.
Naphex: hehe
fluffypony: oh I take it back
mircea_popescu: so i get 50 btc from 100 users. i spend 4925 of these 5k btc
fluffypony: they're using Proof of LIabilities
fluffypony: same guy
ozbot: Proof of Liabilities tools
mircea_popescu: each user sees "success! site is solvent! 25 btc extra"
mircea_popescu: fucking bitchslap these idiots with a trout omfg.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: solvency-verifier << when i was a little boy, me brother said 'i shall build you a computer.' (he had one, a rarity, i was envious and annoying)
jurov: ThickAsThieves yes wao is wao
asciilifeform: so next day he gives it to me
asciilifeform: a matchbox. push it, one side pops out, printed with answer!! 'CORRECT.'
asciilifeform: push other side, 'ERROR'
asciilifeform: 'here's yer computer'
asciilifeform: 'the one you deserve'
mircea_popescu: how mean!
davout: it's spelled "compootah"
fluffypony: I would've complained about the stack size
asciilifeform: i deserved this computer. and, apparently, some people today, still deserve.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile back at the other side of mean : "Problem 4 : Permeating all the foregoing and sufficiently so to become a problem in its own right is the incredible arrogance of the recently liberated corporate slavebois working as independent coders. Seriously, start working on the BTC securities trade system of the future without ever having worked for MPEx, without having humbly presented your inept ideas to the most gra
mircea_popescu: ndiose master Mircea Popescu (ie, me), without anything like that ? O, why, because you’re a special little trainflake of brilliance and genius who can ? Really ?
mircea_popescu: Reality doesn’t work that way."
mircea_popescu: fuckwit without a clue makes "proof of solvency".
mircea_popescu: it works worse than the one bit matchbox computer ;/
asciilifeform: righto, both sides painted 'CORRECT'
mircea_popescu: should get fucking branded, roman empire style.
fluffypony: which seems great in theory, but as mircea_popescu pointed out it's easy to fake
mircea_popescu: "I THOUGHT I WAS SMART. TURNS OUT I WAS JUST ANOTHER LITERATE IGNORAMUS"
mircea_popescu: in like inch high letters, one letter at a time.
asciilifeform: 'i own proxima centaruri.' - 'ok, i'll believe. but first, wiggle it a bit. my gravimeter's ready, whatcha waiting for.'
mircea_popescu: 70 of them, takes two months.
asciilifeform: *centauri
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves ok, you wanna talk about getting under my skin ? this shit gets under my skin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's not a fair test. i own my cock, but it's also too big to wiggle.
ThickAsThieves: your hands have gone weak from lack of self service
ThickAsThieves: have your girl move it
mircea_popescu: it needs like three women working it
mircea_popescu: wouldn't that be the curse of all time.
mircea_popescu: "honey! i gotta pee! get honey and honey, let's get moving on this!"
asciilifeform: yah, but you can make it report for duty, prove ownership.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so far. from what i hear from older people however...
asciilifeform: herr mocsny had a good point about this
davout: mircea_popescu: lazyness would command to get a chamber pot instead
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.0009871 = 21.4201 BTC [+] {4}
asciilifeform: 'It would be interesting to do a study on men who need Viagra to have sex with their partners. How many of those same men are able to wank off to porn (whatever variety they like, but most likely it would feature women from the most physically attractive 1%) without chemical assistance?'
mircea_popescu: chamber pot, chamber maid, chamber music...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that'd be a good study. i'm also curious.
asciilifeform: speaking of chamber pot - anyone else's hotel room had... an Otohime!?!?
asciilifeform: last thing i expected to find
asciilifeform: ;;google otohime
gribble: Toyotama-hime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyotama-hime>; Otohime - The One Piece Wiki - Wikia: <http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Otohime>; Otohime - Yu-Gi-Oh!: <http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Otohime>
mircea_popescu: a what ?
ozbot: The sound of a princess... on the toilet | CNN Travel
Naphex: oh man, the tehnology nowadays, and i used to just turn on the water
Naphex: :))
mircea_popescu: aren't these gizmos like required by the classification board ?
jurov: i tried that switch but did not recognize any sound
mircea_popescu: to get your stars or w/e ?
asciilifeform: yeah mine was dead too
asciilifeform: but i'm not a princess
ThickAsThieves: ;;rate wao 2 Spreads bitcoin awareness, works with jurov (Coinroll, etc), friendly dood
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user wao has been recorded.
ThickAsThieves: "Study confirms monkeys can do math"
asciilifeform: waiting for 'study confirms man can do math'
mircea_popescu: and by math is meant, of course, arithmetics ?
fluffypony: the three Rs - Reading, Riting, and Rithmetic
ThickAsThieves: "GitHub co-founder resigns after investigation into harassment claims"
asciilifeform: there was, if i recall, suspicion that higher animals (e.g. dog catching ball) can crunch diff. equations - until high speed photography developed
asciilifeform: then it was found that creatures merely do 'bang-bang correction' when 'solving' the motion equations.
ozbot: Google is researching ways to make encryption easier to use in Gmail | VentureBeat | Security | by H
asciilifeform: 'integrating into gmail'
asciilifeform: next news:
asciilifeform: 'google buys keybase'
jurov: google's unto embrace extern extinguish?
jurov: *onto
mircea_popescu: jurov exactly.
asciilifeform: seriously, how much radiation damage someone would need, to swallow this crap
mircea_popescu: dude srsly ? cofounders split up over that horvath nitwit ?!
mircea_popescu: poor github. so who's replacing them ?
asciilifeform: the gurl?
ThickAsThieves: appears so
Naphex: didn't google launch gmail just too show ads on your mail context?
Naphex: what ads will run for encrypted emails? ;o
ThickAsThieves: Naphex i dont think so
asciilifeform: 'products bought by other people having your private key...'
ThickAsThieves: the mail context came much later
fluffypony: Naphex: they still know what you're searching
mircea_popescu: Naphex no, gmail was because yahoo sucked and they did mail.
asciilifeform: 'google buys phuctor', news at 11.
fluffypony: I mean searching in mail
ThickAsThieves: google just wants you to enter their cage for the most part
mircea_popescu: many shepherds in backwards places (like romania) still use yahoo mail
fluffypony: although that'll be interesting - how will gmail search work if your mail is encrypted?
mircea_popescu: fluffypony "encrypted"
asciilifeform: 'encrypted'
mircea_popescu: it's just encrypted to stop the leaks wherein haxxors get the pm's email.
fluffypony: exactly
mircea_popescu: it's not encrypted to stop google reading it. it couldn't be
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00098778 = 3.3091 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: otherwise, i already use encrypted gmail.
ThickAsThieves: then it aint really encrypted :/
Apocalyptic: <asciilifeform> seriously, how much radiation damage someone would need, to swallow this crap // i like the way you put it
ThickAsThieves: the line is drawn at whether the encryption happens locally or on google servers, right?
Apocalyptic: even if it's done locally, you trust google to provide the right js script or whatever
asciilifeform: the concept of 'private key' is apparently high mathematics to some people.
ThickAsThieves: isnt there already an opensource pgp mail client?
fluffypony: no clue
jurov: ThickAsThieves: KMail + Kleopatra
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves why do i need to mix the channel and the security layer at all ?
mircea_popescu: this is exactly wrong. i do not need gmail involved in encryption any more than i need incentivised wot
fluffypony: Mailvelope does GPG in the browser (Chrome only, FF coming) for GMail
jurov: but nothing can open PGP/MIME stuff it produces
mircea_popescu: i just encrypt in gpg, everything the same way, and then paste the text in an email.
mircea_popescu: this works with all carriers, cause it's not their job to encrypt. their job is to carry.
jurov: so I just copy paste gpg encrypted clobs anyway
mircea_popescu: sanity is separating risks not bundling them.
asciilifeform: it's not unlike toilet in the kitchen.
fluffypony: although probably 95% of my mails aren't encrypted or gpg signed because that would require educating all recipients on how to decrypt them
ThickAsThieves: it does seem a bit silly when you consider any mail client made for encryption essentially exists to remove the bother of copy-pasting
asciilifeform: why does your flat need both a toilet and kitchen sink?
asciilifeform: save the bother of walking
asciilifeform: save plumber some work.
Apocalyptic: ThickAsThieves, there is no bother too great for security
ThickAsThieves: i always wondered why people dont piss in the sink
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought that's where the us was headed with the garbage disposal things
ThickAsThieves: we had this habit when i rented with other dudes
asciilifeform: someone already sells toilets with 'garbage disposal'
asciilifeform: waiting for a bright fellow to make next step.
ThickAsThieves: even the bathroom sink is more suited for male pissing than the toiley
Apocalyptic: !up chairman_meow
assbot: Voicing chairman_meow for 30 minutes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00098778 = 8.1492 BTC [+]
chairman_meow: can anyone recommend an investment like just-dice?
mircea_popescu: just-dice.
ThickAsThieves: what is just-dice missing that you seek?
chairman_meow: ThickAsThieves: i want to invest in gambling sites. I just don't want to put everything in just-dice
ThickAsThieves waits for "30btc to register, fuck that!"
mircea_popescu: anyone recvalls that film where an aspiring actress ends up killing her baby ?
chairman_meow: ThickAsThieves: nothing that allows me to invest small amounts?
mircea_popescu: i think it was von trier maybe ?
ThickAsThieves: coinbr.com
ThickAsThieves: but maybe read and learn about bitbet before worrying about how to buy it?
chairman_meow: everydice.com looks like what i'm looking for. kinda shady though
chairman_meow: heyyy mircea_popescu owns bitbet
mircea_popescu: only for the good stuff
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0657999 = 0.329 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 5 @ 0.14 = 0.7 BTC
mircea_popescu: daisy diamond!
mircea_popescu: btw, great film.
ThickAsThieves: mostly mp just adds randomness to bitbet ;)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.04300042 = 0.301 BTC [-] {3}
chairman_meow: hmm there doesnt seem to be something like just-dice
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves my contributions throughout my life have been nixing things and doing weird shit. in that order.
Blazedout419: lol love that painting mircea_popescu
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEEQ] 2892 @ 0.0000694 = 0.2007 BTC [-] {6}
ThickAsThieves: bitcoinragazine censorshipped me :(
mircea_popescu: Blazedout419 the gauguin ?
Blazedout419: haha "paint me as hitler"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00098375 = 11.1164 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: i was trying to point people to check out bitcoinpete's expose on maidsafe and they didnt approve my comment
mircea_popescu: oh oh. yeah huh :D
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves nonegativityallowed.com
ozbot: Why your fingerprints may not be unique - Telegraph
mircea_popescu: in other nonunique news.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.0657999 = 0.3948 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.03 = 0.75 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: "Vleisides' finances have been in question for the past several months," particularly because his residence "was recently purchased by BFL for approximately $400,000 in cash.
mircea_popescu: the noose tightens.
Duffer1: are monarchs shipping yet?
fluffypony: don't think so
Duffer1: sounds like this guy is going to pass away in prison like his father
chairman_meow: am I still voiced?
chairman_meow: yeah I am
chairman_meow: something I don't understand with provably fair.
ThickAsThieves: that it doesnt prove the operator isnt stealing?
HeySteve: wanted to mention earlier, Lavaboom looks promising for secure email: https://lavaboom.com/nerd-info.html
chairman_meow: ThickAsThieves: you read my mind!
davout: chairman_meow: no, he read the logs
ThickAsThieves: well in this case, it happens to be the first question i eve rasked in bitcoin
chairman_meow: heh. so is there a solution to this?
Apocalyptic: "we do everything possible to make Lavaboom easy to use while keeping the service as secure as possible." HeySteve, you can't have it both ways
ThickAsThieves: no solution to date
Apocalyptic: or you end up with a thing that is neither one nor the other
davout: ThickAsThieves: so serious :-)
ThickAsThieves makes davout serious face and grunty retort noises
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: surely the solution should be that all rolls are on a single address, no change addresses?
davout throws a branch of celery to ThickAsThieves to calm his anger
HeySteve: Apocalyptic, I'd encrypt myself for anything sensitive but this will improve things for people who can't do that
Duffer1: " PayPal global asset protection officer, told her that as of September 2013, PayPal froze BFL’s account containing $11 million and that PayPal received 6,000 complaints in total."
Apocalyptic: HeySteve, it will improve the illusion
davout: HeySteve: there is no "person who can't do that", there are lazy people
ThickAsThieves: fluffy, the problem is the operator has the key
ThickAsThieves: so he can bet however he likes
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: yeah, so when the pot is big enough he can duck
ThickAsThieves: from any random address
fluffypony: and "win"
HeySteve: right, well the more cycles wasted on lazy people using halfway solutions the better?
ThickAsThieves: it gets worse
ThickAsThieves: he can do it with investor's money
davout: HeySteve: no
HeySteve: unsure why not, doesn't it increase costs for spies?
davout: HeySteve: does it ?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: so then what about a hot-wallet, lost roll amounts are sent to a cold-wallet, and the cold wallet is multi-sig, with a board of investors holding keys and the site operator holding keys. payouts happen once every 24 hours instead of immediately.
davout: fluffypony: running away with the pot/cheating -> different problemz
HeySteve: davout, in theory
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 and then gigaom harps about how coindesk is relevant in bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, mp says he wants vehehes' head, mp gets vehehes' head. mp says he wants karpeles' head, mp gets karpeles' head
Duffer1: coindesk hurts my brain
mircea_popescu: and s' and s' and so on and so forth.
mircea_popescu: and ano i shall be off making bbq.
fluffypony ponders
fluffypony: davout: and this is why I don't gamble
fluffypony: at least not in the traditional sense :-P
ThickAsThieves: you cant remove trust from the problem here
ThickAsThieves: look at bitbet
ThickAsThieves: you still must trust them to hold your coins and pay them out
ThickAsThieves: that's not a problem necessarily
ThickAsThieves: it's a service
ThickAsThieves: the difference with bitbet is that the interests are better-aligned
ThickAsThieves: so, it would go that you might be better off investing in owning a dice site privately, than being a public investor via shares or a shared pot
ThickAsThieves: but then you'd also be the guy with the problem
ThickAsThieves: of not being able to prove you arent stealing
fluffypony: I think it goes back to a discussion I had with someone the other day - he was espousing the values of the Dogecoin community, and how nice everyone is, and they don't have "scams like Bitcoin has"
fluffypony: so I pointed out that lending a buddy 200k Dogecoin today is worth a whopping $120, but Dogecoin's market cap is tiny ($44 mil as opposed to $6.2 bil), and would he trust his buddy to not run with those coins if they were worth $17 000?
fluffypony: in other words, operators may start off with good intentions, but when they suddenly realise they're sitting on a large pot of gold, are they still trustworthy?
fluffypony: and unfortunately in the case of many an operator in the Bitcoin/cryptocurrency space they don't scale their control measures in line with the money they control
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17664 @ 0.00098778 = 17.4481 BTC [+]
Apocalyptic: operational security is hard to improvise
fluffypony: Apocalyptic: hence my #bitcoin-dev question on accounts, I was wondering how "auditable"/visible they were publicly (the answer being not-at-all)
mircea_popescu: -dev has accounts ?!
jurov: i think it was about bitcoin-qt accounts
fluffypony: jurov: they're deprecating it
jurov: electrum devs try to do accounts right, we'll see how it comes out
mircea_popescu: oh jesus those things.
fluffypony: but I had this little brain-fart of an idea of using accounts mapped 1:1 to an address on an exchange (turns out my understanding of "accounts" was incorrect)
ozbot: Bitcoin was written by the retarded, part II pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: there, have at.
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: and in at #8 is the bitcoin foundation's annual letter lol
davout: jurov: ThomasV is working on accounts??
bitcoinpete: the twitter is 6x older than the blog. all in good time
ozbot: NEO & BEE: THE FULL PICTURE : Bitcoin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 500 @ 0.00022471 = 0.1124 BTC [-]
bitcoinpete: Brewster: "Actually I thought we had 5,000, but I have checked the wallet and the coins are not there, I spent them somewhere but I don't remember on what.......we have only 140 coins left."
bitcoinpete: Andreas Antonopoulos posts on Reddit stating that “I was as surprised and bewildered by these events…dismayed that another bitcoin company had imploded amidst allegations of fraud and leaving many investors, creditors and employees with serious losses…all of whom betrayed by Danny” <<fuckin derp
mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete ask derpopopulos how come is it possible that danny brewster fucked everyone in the ass, when he never said things such as nigger or put down women for being retarded ?
mircea_popescu: maybe he should change his spiel from his current nonsense. apparently that doesn't help anything.
mircea_popescu: carefully selecting audiences for libertardism does not on the volume of data collected so far seem to produce better businesses.
bitcoinpete: lol i'll call into joe rogan's show tmrw and heckle derpopolous live
fluffypony: I'd pay to hear that
fluffypony: do you accept Altcoin?
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly. we've all been sayin' hail marys over here like he prescribed, and we still got the clap.
mircea_popescu: what gives ?
mircea_popescu: and is he paying for it ?
mircea_popescu: tell him some investors have been very careful to follow his instructions and they still lost money. what's he going to do to make them whole ? apologize ? pay out of pocket ?
bitcoinpete: afaik andreas is fuckin broke and just scrapes by as a conference gypsy
mircea_popescu: i know, but he does it in an offensive manner.
mircea_popescu: at least to my easily offended asshole sensibilities.
fluffypony: am I the only person who hasn't seen him speak / heard him interviewed / watched him in a video?
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: maybe, you're out on some lulz
bitcoinpete: he's all about "the other 6 billion," promoting scammers, and 2.0 baloney
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: every time I see a video with him linked to on /r/bitcoin it just seems like a link to a TED talk, and I can't be bothered to watch TED talks
ThickAsThieves: i have yet to watch more than 10secs of antonopoly
jborkl: The next day Brewster shocks the management team by telling them that the 5,000 BTC have…..overnight become only 140! "Actually I thought we had 5,000, but I have checked the wallet and the coins are not there, I spent them somewhere but I don't remember on what.......we have only 140 coins left. I am going to the UK to find investors. I will send you the 140 coins left and also sell my Mercedes
jborkl: and Bentley and will send you the money to pay the March salaries and the creditors".
bitcoinpete: ;;google antonopolous joe rogan
gribble: Joe Rogan Experience #446 - Andreas Antonopoulos - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cexawnOlR8>; Joe Rogan (Podcast Site): <http://podcasts.joerogan.net/>; Andreas M. Antonopoulos Live on Joe Rogan Experiance RIGHT ...: <http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wbmo7/andreas_m_antonopoulos_live_on_joe_rogan/>
jborkl: Jesus christ, what a fucking retard
mircea_popescu: fluffypony i think i saw a pic. kinda bald fellow.
ThickAsThieves: despite being hetero, i find him too unnattractive to look at
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: hunchy too
ThickAsThieves: maybe it's just my spider sense
mircea_popescu: jborkl "5,000 BTC have…..overnight become only 140!" << there's some truth to that.
mircea_popescu: you see, toy exchanges love to inflate their figures.
mircea_popescu: due to the complete lack of transparency, and seeing how all havelock/btct/bitfunder/glbse/etc offerings are destined to implode anyway
mircea_popescu: they can get away with the pretense that they raise a lot of money.
mircea_popescu: then inexplicable shit happens. like this :
ozbot: Twitter / bitcoinpete: Hey @aantonop: Are you making ...
jborkl: I am going to sell my Mercedes and Bentley <-- what a asshole
bitcoinpete: not my harshest rebuke… don't feel like tearing assholes before breakfast
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: I see not everyone appreciated your maidsafe criticism
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: not everyone appreciates frank lloyd wright either, c'est la vie
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
jborkl: what is maidsafe anyway? keeps the maid from stealing your bitcoins?
fluffypony: "@bitcoinpete @maidsafe @MSCProtocol any points you make get lost in what feels like a trashy review of a summer movie. Be more constructive."
mircea_popescu: it's like maid to order. a pun.
fluffypony: what a whiney little girl
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: blame the education system lol
mircea_popescu: fluffypony lmao. when did some fucktarded bitcoin noncompany with no wot start looking down on trashy summer movies ?!
mircea_popescu: what is this, the reverseland ?
mircea_popescu: Your search - @bitcoinpete @maidsafe @MSCProtocol any points you make get lost in what feels like a ... - did not match any documents.
mircea_popescu: can i \has linkl ?
jborkl: then it should be madesafe right? I guess I don't get the pun
mircea_popescu: jborkl they're new in the punning business.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: sure gimme a sec
ozbot: Twitter / russellaugust: @bitcoinpete @maidsafe ...
bitcoinpete: faster
ozbot: Twitter / russellaugust: @bitcoinpete @maidsafe ...
fluffypony: oh there, beat me to it
fluffypony sends bitcoinpete a coke
bounce: no minute maid?
bitcoinpete: just had one of the guys in our meet-up group ask about maidsafe too. of course, a day after i blogged about it. just like he asked about bitgo a day after i blogged about that. noticing a pattern here
mircea_popescu: the bigger q here is who the fuck is that russel dood.
mircea_popescu: "Avid film and commercial editor, motion artist, and sometimes software developer." just sounds to me like unemployed young poor.
mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete the pattern being that peeps are trolling you or that peeps don't read your blog ?
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: very big q indeed. is being a "motion artist" like someone who takes jogs outside?
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: not reading lol
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: I believe "motion artists" practice an obscure form of yoga
ThickAsThieves: i exist therefore i artist
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: not much for coke, got any wine?
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: probably one of the hot, sweaty kinds
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: TONS, take a trip to South Africa and stop by, I'll provide the alcohol
fluffypony: cgcardona_:)
bitcoinpete: reading part 3 of essences...
mircea_popescu: fluffypony i bet you it's just copied off the oscars. "the academy of motioning artistes"
mircea_popescu: at the time in newyork young hungry cocksuckers worked like taxi cabs : you'd motion to them and they'd get to work.
jurov: davout re: electrum multiple wallets: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=427617.0
jurov: er.. accounts
cgcardona_: top of the morning bitcoin-assets! cc/ fluffypony
jborkl: Ok, I read the website facts for Maidsafe and I feel dumb now. And if they are going to make a really bad pun they need a logo to go with it that makes you laugh
jborkl: .uncyc.org%252Fwiki%252FSeptember%3B150%3B151
jborkl: nm the link hehe
ozbot: U.S. investment banker James Rickards says tie bitcoin to gold and avoid volatility
davout: jurov: thanks, i'll inquire about it
ThickAsThieves: US doctor says tie noose to neck to avoid risk
bitcoinpete: ThickAsThieves: that noose is also for professionalism
ThickAsThieves: maybe #b-a logo could be a sword of Damocles with a halo at the bottom
mircea_popescu: either that or a gaping asshole
ThickAsThieves: might as well make a whole crest out of it
ThickAsThieves: hmm wsj ssl broken
ozbot: Tea Firm Injects Buzz into Thai Stock Market With Porsche Giveaway - MoneyBeat - WSJ
ThickAsThieves: next is BOGO?
ThickAsThieves: Sharpie of Damocles
mircea_popescu: moar like sharpie of patrocles
ThickAsThieves: jurov:<davout> ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR <<< lol I'm not aware TAT took over coinbr :D /// Surprise!
davout: whoops
asciilifeform: ;;google trading sardines
gribble: "Trading Sardines" - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28627.0>; Natural Gas In 2013: It's Now A Trading Sardine - Seeking Alpha: <http://seekingalpha.com/article/1091461-natural-gas-in-2013-its-now-a-trading-sardine>; "Sardines" are to Trade, not Eat | Gold Eagle: <http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/sardines-are-trade-not-eat>
davout: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThickAsThieves has changed from 1 to 3.
davout: ;;rate jurov 3
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user jurov has been recorded.
davout: ;;rate jurov 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 3 to 3.
davout: ;;rate jurov 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user jurov has changed from 3 to 3.
davout: weird, the message doesn't get picked up
Blazedout419: what do you mean
jurov: what? i see gribbles replies
Blazedout419: [11:24am] <+gribble> Rating change | Old rating 3 | New rating: davout > 3 > jurov | this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
Blazedout419: [11:24am] <+gribble> Rating change | Old rating 3 | New rating: davout > 3 > jurov | this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also CoinBR
Blazedout419: it shows
Blazedout419: the gribble spam chans shows all!
davout: okay, wasn't showing at first on bitcoin-otc
davout: seems good nao
davout: ;;rate asciilifeform 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, very knowledgeable about engineering and beagles
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user asciilifeform has changed from 1 to 3.
Blazedout419: you guys know gribble has a chan that echos all ratings right?
davout: might as well do a little update round
davout: Blazedout419: no
Blazedout419: only gribble is voiced...and only shows ratings as added
davout: Blazedout419: no as in "oh really? tell me more" :-)
Blazedout419: #bitcoin-otc-ratings
davout: ;;rate kakobrekla 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also Bit4x
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user kakobrekla has changed from 1 to 3.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3053 @ 0.000135 = 0.4122 BTC [+]
bitcoinpete: ciao for nao
davout: ;;rate mike_c 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mike_c has changed from 1 to 3.
davout: ;;rate ThomasV 3 electrum, met IRL a few times
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ThomasV has changed from 3 to 3.
davout: Blazedout419: thank you !
davout: Blazedout419: learn something new every day!
mircea_popescu: davout omfg you actually didn't know ?
mircea_popescu: i thought sarcasm fo sho, you nooblet you
Blazedout419: ;;ratingsystem getrating Blazedout419
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Blazedout419!~Rogue@76-243-42-60.lightspeed.cntmoh.sbcglobal.net . User Blazedout419, rated since Sat May 18 17:05:13 2013. Cumulative rating 258, from 119 total ratings. Received ratings: 119 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 124 positive, 3 negative. Details: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Blazedout419
jurov: looks like i should update my ratings too :)
Blazedout419: he does so many things
jurov: ;;ident jurov
gribble: Nick 'jurov', with hostmask 'jurov!~jurov@mx.coinbr.com', is not identified.
mircea_popescu: o look, coinbrazil has a mexico.
jurov: lol
jurov: it was supposed to be used for email, too
jurov: after some bastions are erected and moats dug
jurov: !up only
assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3036 @ 0.00098881 = 3.002 BTC [+]
jurov: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:13ad09cbe0fc1cde274158d2b9e2d39594bb14c40d65609dcfa6224e
gribble: You are now authenticated for user jurov with key 677ABD62D0AEE7D7
jurov: ;;rate asciilifeform 3 NSA delivers; met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user asciilifeform has changed from 1 to 3.
jurov: ;;rate davout 3 bitcoin-central; met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user davout has changed from 3 to 3.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.528 = 1.056 BTC [-]
jurov: ;;rate mike_c 3 <3 bitcoinalpha;we met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user mike_c has been recorded.
jurov: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 3 Biggest IDIFF investor, we met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 3 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.
davout: ;;rate mike_c 3 this nick maps to a real person i have met IRL, also btcalpha <3
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mike_c has changed from 3 to 3.
davout: jurov: thanks for reminding me mike_c does btcalpha, luv it
jurov: ;;rate kakobrekla 4 runs several solid btc enterprises (bit4x,bitbet,panacea,...);we met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 4 for user kakobrekla has been recorded.
jurov: ;;rate mircea_popescu 6 has pet manticores;we met IRL
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 4 to 6.
ozbot: A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: in my humble opinion, this is the most important thing written on the topic in the history of human culture, neatly dwarving adam smith and so forth.
ThickAsThieves: just when i was gonna take a break from reading
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40373 @ 0.00098287 = 39.6814 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47728 @ 0.00098162 = 46.8508 BTC [-] {4}
ThickAsThieves: typo: marriage certificate. Were burning it today, all of it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.48246700 BTC to 6`890 shares, 36030 satoshi per share
ThickAsThieves: thinking out loud, if something is not a medium of exchange,
ThickAsThieves: should it never be used as one?
ThickAsThieves: for example, time
ThickAsThieves: i mow your lawn so i can have you do my taxes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52664 @ 0.00098641 = 51.9483 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2536 @ 0.00098837 = 2.5065 BTC [+]
jurov: ThickAsThieves: that's barter and does not involve any medium of exchange
ThickAsThieves: i suppose
davout: jurov: the distinction of barter vs. other forms of trade is imho quite artificial
ThickAsThieves: i always sorta viewed mediums of exchange as manifestations of time
davout: a medium of exchange is just another economic good, one that is particularly liquid though
ThickAsThieves: time is all we really have right?
davout: why so ?
ThickAsThieves: hmm, it's the only resource everyone has? how one "spends" their time may determine their "wealth" ...?
benkay: you're born long time and short housing...
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves ty!
ThickAsThieves: it is inconvenient to transfer time, so currency is used
ThickAsThieves: among other inconvenient things to transfer
mircea_popescu: so if it doesn't satisfy #2, it's not a medium of exchange
mircea_popescu: case closed.
mircea_popescu: i mean you know, you can view planets as stars, as in the case of venus
mircea_popescu: what you prefer viewing things as tho is not a point of astronomy
ThickAsThieves: well i did start by acknowledging it was not a MoE
mircea_popescu: time is definitely very important.
ThickAsThieves: maybe rephrased, would it be preferred to require currency in a barter
mircea_popescu: the problem of natural persons vs legal persons is that natural persons have constraints legal persons do not.
ThickAsThieves: instead of the man;s time
mircea_popescu: such as finite timespan, and a need to eat.
mircea_popescu: this makes corporations win out in any fair contest.
ThickAsThieves: how is it fair if one side has constraints?
mircea_popescu: a fair contest is a contest which does not distinguish between participants.
mircea_popescu: !up surfcap
assbot: Voicing surfcap for 30 minutes.
ThickAsThieves: ah, so it's fair because the person chose to compete
mircea_popescu: fairness in this context may not be what you think when you say the word.
mircea_popescu: fairness is not a guarantee of equal resuts, even if you promise equal effort.
mircea_popescu: fair is simply anonymity.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 750 @ 0.14 = 105 BTC
mircea_popescu: if the contest is running, and it dun matter who's running, he still has to do 100 meters, be it obama or goldstein,
mircea_popescu: then it's a fair contest.
mircea_popescu: and from unrelated news : "Nothing makes you more powerful inside the joint than a strong grounding in currency arbitrage."
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is the best thing you could possibly be doing with your time, not last on the list because even should it put you in prison, it will probably make you a ruler there, too.
mircea_popescu: a more absolute gift of power could scarcely be devised. "even in hell, they with this staff wield power" sort of thing.
dignork: mircea_popescu: person can win over corporate entity, think of kill contract for C-level staff
mircea_popescu: dignork i don't follow ?
dignork: mircea_popescu: "mircea_popescu | this makes corporations win out in any fair contest."
mircea_popescu: i know what i said, what i don't follow is what you said.
ThickAsThieves: it always amazed me how much arbitrage opportunity existed on the play exchanges
dignork: mircea_popescu: just describing situation where person can win
mircea_popescu: how does the person win ?
ThickAsThieves: and what is the contest
mircea_popescu: if you shoot all the board of X corp, what of it ? they just hire new ones.
dignork: mircea_popescu: if the game was survavibility
mircea_popescu: a corporation is like a personified feud. it can even lay dormant.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile banks adding interest to its accounts.
ThickAsThieves: so mp, with this purified definition of economy, how do we apply it to current situations for benefit?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06476363 = 0.1295 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: like, we discovered quantum computing, now what?
mircea_popescu: well we apply it to understand what we do and do not understand better, and formalise both.
mircea_popescu: for instance, what does qc do ? does it attack the forum ?
mircea_popescu: does it attack the moe ? the wot ? how so ?
mircea_popescu: it can be fixed once we understand wtf it does.
mircea_popescu: before we do, it's just you know, fretting.
mircea_popescu: and generally, it's a knife. it allows to cleave reality and the problems of reality into easier to manage bits.
mircea_popescu: say, the "problem" of x. well... how mcuh of it actually is economical ? that much should be resolved economically.
mircea_popescu: the rest is probably emotional ? or political ? or whatever the fuck else.
mircea_popescu: suddenly reality is actionable, which is what makes great science.
mircea_popescu: (and science great)
ThickAsThieves: so, it's basic first use would be as a test
ThickAsThieves: is this an economy or not, etc
ThickAsThieves: altough you do already claim it is the first real economy
benkay: good grief it's like everyone disappeared for three days and then came back and pooped it all out on the logs
mircea_popescu: which claim is that ? i make som any
benkay: STAHP FOR LOVE OF CHRIST
mircea_popescu: benkay shuttup and read biotch.
ThickAsThieves: "It is important to bear in mind however that Bitcoin is merely a tool, that what we’re truly interested in is creating - for the first time in perhaps as long as two centuries - an actual, working economy"
ThickAsThieves: so not as sweeping as i said
ThickAsThieves: but pretty broad
mircea_popescu: yeah. the objection there is not so different from tlp's objection that medicalisation of welfare.
mircea_popescu: there's been a trend to economize welfare, and that just muddies up everything
mircea_popescu: not to mention the economization of politics, whereby politics are resisted or promoted on alleged economic grounds.
mircea_popescu: most of the debate dealing with strictly uneconomic matters.
benkay: and the economic matters rarely have data on which to base claims.
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if this could be applied to mmporg guilds, maybe your Rift guild is missing a punishment gazette
mircea_popescu: it kinda has it, very rudimentarily, as the kick log say.
benkay: the takeaway for me from the piketty stuff (if anyone cares) is that claims about how money flows are all hot air and lacking in data.
mircea_popescu: o wow ThickAsThieves check this shit out :
ThickAsThieves: wait, but is punishment gazette the proper term?
benkay: humiliation blotter?
mircea_popescu: i CREATED IT because we have an open guild bank where anyone can take out a stack, but you're not supposed to take out the WHOLE stack of things you can use 1-2 of
ThickAsThieves: for isn't a positive note possible? and useful?
mircea_popescu: so i put a note on a guy's "officer notesd" place that hey, you took all our x runes wtf
mircea_popescu: and he put them back.
mircea_popescu: so there the fuck you go.
mircea_popescu: this theory is useful in design : how to make better mmorpgs.
mircea_popescu: or countries.
mircea_popescu: just like, you know, the original adam smith.
ThickAsThieves: then it starts looking like, everything is an economy
ThickAsThieves: which you are saying is foolish already
mircea_popescu: anyway, a "gazette" is this ancient term of "where all the matters of record are published"
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves everything that moves has some economic part
ThickAsThieves: right but you call it punishment
mircea_popescu: much like it has an engine.
fluffypony: yeah, the issue is with the "punishment" part, not the gazette part
ThickAsThieves: so maybe i reword to, any organized effort could benefit from a properly implemented economy
mircea_popescu: punishment is any action upon an agent that happens irrespective of the will of that agent
mircea_popescu: which is why i'd say punishment is the proper term.
mircea_popescu: you don't need me to rate me.
ThickAsThieves: i punish you with my appreciation
mircea_popescu: sure. maybe i don't want it.
mircea_popescu: suppose pirate came back and went ;;rate ThickAsThieves 6 trusted guy helped me launder money
ThickAsThieves: i get what youre saying,
ThickAsThieves: but i think you might be choosing the wrong word
ThickAsThieves: no definition of punishment i know would include a positive rating
ThickAsThieves: whether you want to twist a positive rating into being a punishment seems to me, another thing
ThickAsThieves: you want your gazette to be impartial and permanent in and of itself
fluffypony: maybe actaque non persona is better?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well... so maybe the definition is broken you know ?
ThickAsThieves: says the guy who wants people to look up words and use them properly
mircea_popescu: but this is properly ;/
ThickAsThieves: and you are the dicstionary
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00098314 = 10.2247 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: well so what else
cgcardona_: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 493.5, Best ask: 494.5, Bid-ask spread: 1.00000, Last trade: 493.5, 24 hour volume: 6797.65308914, 24 hour low: 489.77, 24 hour high: 504.9, 24 hour vwap: 496.41813442
mircea_popescu: gazzette d'actaque non persona
benkay: (dicktionary)
fluffypony: there
fluffypony: I like that
mircea_popescu: benkay fucktionary!
fluffypony: much better than punishment gazette
ThickAsThieves: fictionary
mircea_popescu: !up VictorM
assbot: Voicing VictorM for 30 minutes.
fluffypony: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 punishment for always being in #bitcoin-assets
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
mircea_popescu: it definitely fits the crime...
fluffypony: ;;rate ThickAsThieves 1 punishment for always being in #bitcoin-assets
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user ThickAsThieves has been recorded.
ThickAsThieves: we are all born sinners after all!
mircea_popescu: briar patch gazette
ThickAsThieves: hey look, even my handle has added depth now
mircea_popescu: tbh i was tempted to outright call it a wot.
ThickAsThieves: thick as thieves
cgcardona_: wod web-of-distrust
mircea_popescu: the trouble is that wot is a horrible name, as it's not OF TRUST in the obvious sense, but in the other one. and it'd seem to discuss the actual web, rather than its notation.
mircea_popescu: like the web is the set of websites, not the set of human knowledge
ThickAsThieves: the Trust part leads to noobs using it wrong
mircea_popescu: but the wot seems more the latter. yeah.
fluffypony: let's call it the Bitcoin Social Network instead :-P
mircea_popescu: the truth being that this shit's so bleedin' advanced ... we are without words.
mircea_popescu: or urmom.
mircea_popescu: we could call it urmom gazelle.
fluffypony: "I rated you a 2 on urmom gazelle"
ThickAsThieves: whatd they call those medievil books for documenting the deeds of kings, etc
cgcardona_: web-of-connections
mircea_popescu: i'm making urmom a better gazelle than the wot ever was, bish.
benkay: "the wot"?
benkay: "the what?"
fluffypony: u wot m8
benkay: "no, are you in the wot?"
cgcardona_: wotupwidit
mircea_popescu: like a chronicle ?
benkay: "i'm asking you what i'm in!?"
benkay: "let's try this again. does anyone in the wot know you?"
mircea_popescu: i guess this is actually it.
benkay: "WHAT WHAT?!"
mircea_popescu: benkay in the batt.
mircea_popescu: .bait ed breath
ThickAsThieves: she looks like she just had a nice fart
fluffypony: Network of Awesomeness
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves yeah not bad. bated fart.
benkay: "are you in the no?"
benkay: the know?
mircea_popescu: "are you in the no?" "yes"
ThickAsThieves: what's the password? what.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 150 @ 0.00135202 = 0.2028 BTC [+]
fluffypony: "the no is like the wot"
ThickAsThieves: you know what is fucking criminal?
ThickAsThieves: ATT sends me email about some privacy shiz and says "To allow AT&T to use your CPNI, no further action is required. "
ThickAsThieves: so TOL again (thinking out loud)
ThickAsThieves: should i be able to add someone to the WoT myself
ThickAsThieves: like AT&T
ThickAsThieves: so i can negrate them?
mircea_popescu: this would be fucking ideal, but unfortunately it'd yield fragmentation.
mircea_popescu: the wot already has a massive zooke triangle problem
ThickAsThieves: this seems to be a problem to me
ThickAsThieves: the chronicles didnt require a king to auth
fluffypony: zooke triangle? google not giving me love
mircea_popescu: (and the fact good names aren't being squatted to fuck amazes me, and it is a testament to the fundamental economic ineptitude of geeks)
benkay: seeking greater ev
mircea_popescu: fluffypony a naming system can be secure, memorable and global
ThickAsThieves: it is the chronicle that needed to be auth'd, or the rater
mircea_popescu: pick two
mircea_popescu: benkay condensation ?
ThickAsThieves: it says so right on the caption
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the chronicles didn't work that fucking well, either.
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: maybe the WoT should allow rating someone unknown based on their public GPG key, if it is known?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves lol i didn't click. i guess he's a slow reader.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony only one way to verify it is them.
benkay: mircea_popescu: what delta-t is it leveraging, though?
benkay: ground?
mircea_popescu: the problem here is that people interact with an entity calling itself at&t and using a non-gribble method of authing.
mircea_popescu: so now trust is created that's not wot-based. so in a sense old people are attacking the wot through being... stupid.
mircea_popescu: this will go away on its own.
ThickAsThieves: yeah, i think it's only a temporary problem
mircea_popescu: already good software is gpg based as a matter of course. so what if microsoft doesn't want to sign ?
ThickAsThieves: but temporary is relative...
ThickAsThieves: but basically att not being in the wor, makes them a scammer
ThickAsThieves: but we have no competitors in the wot either
benkay: (someone start a cell company!)
ThickAsThieves: lol, you have to actually tick a box on the opt out page https://www.att.com/ecpnioptout/InitiateCPNIForm.action
ThickAsThieves: it already has no other purpose
fluffypony: I see ICANN now forces you to verify your email if you list your actual contact details on your domain
fluffypony: at least, with the domains I registered today I had to
fluffypony: because email addresses are hard to create.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15421 @ 0.00098314 = 15.161 BTC [-]
benkay: did pLambert ever sort out the signature of that testament?
TomServo: signed with a weak key, last I saw.
benkay: was this the key that didn't match the wot key associated with the name?
benkay: and also
benkay: ;;seen mrs tick ball
gribble: (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
benkay: ;;seen mrstickball
gribble: mrstickball was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 18 hours, 27 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <mrstickball> 107 PH.... nice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00098403 = 11.3655 BTC [+] {2}
mrstickball: ;;gettrust mrstickblal
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mrstickball to user mrstickblal: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mrstickball&dest=mrstickblal | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mrstickblal | Rated since: never
mrstickball: ;;gettrust mrstickball
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mrstickball to user mrstickball: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mrstickball&dest=mrstickball | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mrstickball | Rated since: Fri Jul 5 18:09:54 2013
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.5245 = 6.294 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: hahaha dat graph
benkay: infinity trust
benkay: what's the trilema line about business being insulated from the public?
benkay: mircea_popescu: ^^
benkay: early bitcoin post, talking about the 30B MPEx fee.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18250 @ 0.00098082 = 17.9 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: ;;google trilema "poisonous offering"
gribble: Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/>; Strategic superiority, a saga pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2012/strategic-superiority-a-saga/>; The Ukranian Trilemma - Canadian International Council: <http://opencanada.org/features/the-think-tank/comments (1 more message)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 20 @ 0.14 = 2.8 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21093 @ 0.00098456 = 20.7673 BTC [+]
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I'm so surprised, and I'm sure bitcoinpete will be too
fluffypony: he had such high hopes for the project
ozbot: Bitcoin Address 1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E
ThickAsThieves: to all, would you be interested in free Altcoin stickers? note that this would involve providing a mailing address to me or an intermediary
fluffypony: 4460 BTC so far?
kakobrekla: see, i told you retards still have ze money.
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I'd love some, can I reimburse you for them?
mircea_popescu: what is that addy anyway ?
ThickAsThieves: i could provide a tip address after the fact or such, but no payment would be required
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: the maidsafe address
ThickAsThieves: it's funny how maidsafe will no longer accept mastercoins, the very platform they chose
ThickAsThieves: DarkMarket is a decentralised P2P marketplace which cannot be shut down. It can be joined by anyone and in many respects it looks rather mature, with identity and reputation rankings, seller pages, multisig escrow, private messaging and privacy features.
mircea_popescu: is it the first and biggest ?
fluffypony: assbot: is it amazing?
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
ThickAsThieves: it's the taaki-est
ozbot: Airbitz & Libbitcoin Team Up to Create DarkMarket - YouTube
mircea_popescu: ahahaha WHAT
jborkl: mircea , got last block, time since last bloc and unconfirmed added also :)
mircea_popescu: people are like their worst fucking punishments
ThickAsThieves: i actually have a saying
ThickAsThieves: The life a man leads is punishment enough.
ThickAsThieves: the context is more around calming people down when they get all angry about welfare exploiters and such
ThickAsThieves: haha darkwallet gets a bsod during the presentation
jborkl: *rename darkwallet bluewallet
ThickAsThieves: !up only
assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.
only: mircea_popescu: not gonna fly, darkmarket?
jborkl: Darkmeat
jborkl: Darkmeet <- now that is a good pun
jborkl: stupid maid service
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06445866 = 0.1289 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: only seems improbable.
ThickAsThieves: well according to the Popescu Theory of Economics, DarkMarket is missing at least a public forum
ThickAsThieves: after that i'd have questions about privacy over the system
mircea_popescu: im sure they have where to whine at each other
ThickAsThieves: well they have private disupte resolution
ThickAsThieves: dispute*
ThickAsThieves: didnt mention forum
ThickAsThieves: but would be an easy add
mircea_popescu: anyway, i hope taaki doesn't end up sending intenret hitmen to kill me or something
ThickAsThieves: just pay them more
ThickAsThieves: to hit him back
ozbot: A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: this is actually a pretty good q.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 33 @ 0.00757584 = 0.25 BTC [-] {4}
only: so decentralizing a marketplace is another shitty pipe dream?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06410013 = 0.1923 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: depends what your expectation/definition of decentralization is i suppose
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16644 @ 0.00098898 = 16.4606 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.528745 = 2.115 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5317 BTC [+]
bounce: to some people "decentralised" is a buzzword. "it must be decentralised!" -- yeah, sure. leaving aside the "how" for a moment (you did think that one through, didn't you?), there's the "then what?" as in how'd you use that in practice? did you just go from a single point of failure to N of those? how does that make the situation better? what if something goes wrong, someone rips you off, et cetera?
Naphex: i cant wait for decentralized voip with pay2relay telephony
only: ThickAsThieves: decentralizing the platform (similar to twister) and the escrow
ThickAsThieves: well you cant decentralize escrow
bounce: there's also the revenue model. who'll benefit? thence, who'll build the thing?
only: ThickAsThieves: www.bitrated.com
dexX7: bitrated relies on a third party as mediator
ThickAsThieves: the 3rd party is the escrow
Naphex: set up community tribunal
Naphex: for mediations
Naphex: for the lulz
bounce: that'll be a riot.
ThickAsThieves: wouldnt you rather have one person that is good at it, than 50 that suck or are ill actors?
only: ThickAsThieves: as long as the 3rd party can be anyone, isn't it enough?
ThickAsThieves: that's not decentralization
ThickAsThieves: decntralization would be distributing the risk, not necessarily randomizing it
benkay: jurov this thing'd be a radiative collector then?
Naphex: a normal market with escrow/mediations and marketable ads is enough imho
ThickAsThieves: some things are worse off decentralized
jurov: yes. but it tihnk the numbers are BS
Naphex: yet we still dont have that
jurov: it can get few liters per night at most
only: ThickAsThieves: but how is it worse off by being decentralized?
ThickAsThieves: which "it" do you mean?
ThickAsThieves: bounce may have already summed it up though
only: ThickAsThieves: it = consumer-to-consumer marketplace
jurov: me? i was replying to benkays' water tower sry
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06395923 = 0.6396 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: we hadnt discussed the overall decentralizing of a marketplace as a bad thing
benkay: ;;gettrust only
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user only: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=only | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=only | Rated since: Mon Feb 17 18:33:39 2014
dexX7: well trustless cross-chain trading is possible (sort of) as well as colored coins <> btc markets
ThickAsThieves: it would involve dentralizing the software and content
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06395923 = 0.1919 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: and then ensuring security and privacy
ThickAsThieves: which is where their plan is most likely to fail
ThickAsThieves: but i havent seen their method
ThickAsThieves: they'd also need to provide same security and privacy to any host of the pieces of the system
ThickAsThieves: as in, if one person is selling weed in a jurisdiction he is not allowed, and you are host to that, you are now a target
only: not to mention the kiddie porn
ThickAsThieves: well that raises another point, if it's really decentralized, how is it moderated?
ThickAsThieves: not saying it HAS to be moderated
dexX7: what are you referring to by "it"?
ThickAsThieves: the market
ThickAsThieves: and its contents
davout: !up only
assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.
jborkl: Now, the company's critics have fresh ammunition because of this same executive. A federal judge in Kansas has ruled that the man in question, Sonny Vleisides, violated the terms of his probation in the lottery scam case. As a result, Vleisides’ probation—previously slated to end in September 2013—will now continue for another two years.
mircea_popescu: yeah what bounce said.
mircea_popescu: Naphex> set up community tribunal << you know how well that worked, do you.
mircea_popescu: <only> ThickAsThieves: as long as the 3rd party can be anyone, isn't it enough? << definitely not.
ThickAsThieves: Blockchain Strikes Five Year Deal to Exclusively Manage Bitcoin.com
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10437 @ 0.00098898 = 10.322 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2507 @ 0.00098782 = 2.4765 BTC [-]
Naphex: hehe
Naphex: mircea_popescu: league of legends
Naphex: the game actually set up a community tribunal
Naphex: and its filled with the funniest things ever.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.03074998 = 0.369 BTC [+] {4}
Naphex: so let the users post evidence and yell, and let the community decide :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40673 @ 0.00098103 = 39.9014 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 14 @ 0.00800009 = 0.112 BTC [-] {4}
fluffypony: " 75% of the total number of all Dogecoins are held by 0.75% of investors AND this inequity has been INCREASING"
dexX7: afaik the lol tribunal works quite well and reduced toxic player behavior greatly
fluffypony: !up only
assbot: Voicing only for 30 minutes.
only: thanks fluffypony
fluffypony: no problemo
fluffypony: didn't the rota only have 1 case?
fluffypony: I would've loved to have seen more
mircea_popescu: fluffypony it's actually a measure of their thing failing. in the sense they can't pass off the scamcoin fast enough for their dump-and-dillute engine to actually extract enough value out of the environment to keep the ball rolling.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony yeah, only one case. i suspect now i built it the wrong way,
dexX7: what would you make different next time?
mircea_popescu: because YES loltribunals do work, not just on league of legends, but here too.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: that article really tears the coin apart...gets a little weird in places, but makes REALLY good points
mircea_popescu: dexX7 i think it'd look a lot more like bitcoin-assets.
dexX7: the lol tribunal is so many dimensions less complex than "real" cases so i'm not sure, if it's possible to draw conclusions based on that
only: "bounce: there's also the revenue model. who'll benefit? thence, who'll build the thing?" - can't one hard code an escrow commission into a p2p app?
fluffypony: hard code can be changed
bounce: then do so. :-)
ozbot: Coinfloor Mulling Plan to Launch New Bitcoin Market for Institutional Investors | Forex Minute - Fin
bounce: then again, if it's p2p, and now you get to pay someone else for the privilege of hosting the service yourself, er, why'd you use the app at all?
only: you pay that someone for the privilege of using the app he coded
only: unless there is a free alternative
only: but why would anyone build one (your argument)
mircea_popescu: bounce lol. who the fuck is coinfloor again
mircea_popescu: chetty wb!
mircea_popescu: people missed you in timisoara
chetty: thanks MP, yeah bummer I miss all the fun
bounce: https://coinfloor.co.uk/team says mark lamb, obi nwosu, amadeo pellicce, and "the team" (among them james "nefario" mccarthy as "senior developer")
mircea_popescu: all famous btc people nobody's heard of.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-99228 you gotta read this srsly i'm creaming my pants over here.
davout: !up Oleanie
assbot: Voicing Oleanie for 30 minutes.
Oleanie: ;;rate davout 2
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user davout has been recorded.
dexX7: <only> can you please voice me?
davout: !up only
assbot: Voice for only extended to 30 minutes.
only: davout, dexX7 was already voiced, but thanks
dexX7: ah, only saw your query a few seconds ago and didn't really notice
bounce: such spamm0r
bounce: lucky this isn't -otc then eh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00097978 = 26.4541 BTC [-] {3}
ThickAsThieves: <+Oleanie> ;;rate davout 2 /// haha davout only gets a 2 from his better half
davout: ThickAsThieves: yea, teach your gf GPG, end up in an argument about how she only got rated 3
ThickAsThieves: so by Mirceanomics, Bitcoin is an economy itself, right?
ThickAsThieves: bitcoins being the medium, blockchain the gazette, mining the forum?
jurov: how is blockchain the gazette?
ThickAsThieves: it is a record of all transactions
ThickAsThieves: including unsuccessful ones, no?
TomServo: I thought he suggested the WoT was the gazette, and this chan the forum
chetty: lmao Mirceanomics, a new school is born
jurov: i understood the gazette as transaction history *with human sematics*
bounce: haven't really paid attention to exactly what putin said in response to snowden, but them russkies don't appear to engage in dragnet-and-store type surveillance. they know very well who they're after and they're good at it, if not very subtle.
ThickAsThieves: i'm applying it, not defining it tomservo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18893 @ 0.00098165 = 18.5463 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: bounce you saw they just openly snatched vkontakte?
bounce: yeah I read that link
ThickAsThieves: if the theory can be applied to the Sun and elements, surely applying it to the Bitcoin system isn't absurd
jurov: only and anybody else: if you have significant coinbr volume amd want voice, ask me
ThickAsThieves: i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists
bounce: jurov's trade for ratings programme, now with volume discounts
jurov: >:D
chetty: ThickAsThieves, yup, nothing new under the sun. But this version has less trash attached
jurov: but it reserve the right to decide. even tiberiusiv had some coinbr volume
jurov: *I reserve
ThickAsThieves: jurov, also the blockchain does allow storage of text
jurov: hmmm but it does not allow negative ratings
ThickAsThieves: mirceanomics speaks nothing of ratings
jurov: unless everyone agrees on special protocol for the O_RETURN text
ThickAsThieves: only punishments
jurov: ooookay , so i'll rephrase specially for you
jurov: it does not allow punishment records, unless...etc
ThickAsThieves: could you say that an orhpaned block or unconfirmed tx is a punishment?
jurov: !up sunshyne
assbot: Voicing sunshyne for 30 minutes.
jurov: nope
ThickAsThieves: why not?
jurov: how can you cause orhpaned block or unconfirmed tx on purpose whne someone scams you?
jurov: unless you're kncminer
ThickAsThieves: i'm merely trying to see whether Bitcoin would qualify as another echo to apply it to, not whether it fits a perfect example
ThickAsThieves: like the Sun example
ThickAsThieves: you wont get hydrogen reporting helium for scamming
ThickAsThieves: i think whether it applies might lead to other interesting things
ThickAsThieves: i've got this hammer now, and trying to sort out what it can smash and what it can build
ThickAsThieves: or whether it's a hammer at all
ThickAsThieves: maybe it's a ruler
ThickAsThieves: maybe it's a cloud of smoke
jurov: youre stretching it too extreme... then the blackhole is punishment gazette too
jurov: if the theory that hawking radiation carries information about whatever fell in
jurov: is correct
jurov: *and* you wait 10^10^100 years or so
ThickAsThieves: to give you an example of what i mean
ThickAsThieves: say bitcoin is an economy
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 106 @ 0.03112262 = 3.299 BTC [-] {4}
ThickAsThieves: is the gazette itself also one? could it be?
ThickAsThieves: same for he forum
jurov: i'd think about real world example like pirate's coins or gox coins
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0325 = 0.13 BTC [+]
jurov: even if they managed to mark them in the blockchain
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12294 @ 0.00098721 = 12.1368 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: we need extra-blockchain information to assess them
jurov: you won't get useful info whether to trust gox from only some "mtgox" tag
jurov: you need karpeles' head on the pike plus public record what he did
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4398 @ 0.00098398 = 4.3275 BTC [-]
chetty: karpeles record is pretty public
ThickAsThieves: jurov i somewhat disagree
ThickAsThieves: (note i'm taking this position for sake of the debate, i have no conclusion)
ThickAsThieves: first, the theory doesnt require consensus judgment and punishment (head on pike)
ThickAsThieves: it only requires communicating the actions punishable
ThickAsThieves: "punishment" in its terms are merely individually given
ThickAsThieves: and then those would then be interpreted separately by any individual user
ThickAsThieves: i may decide mark's head didnt belong on a pike
ThickAsThieves: you may express you think it should be piked
ThickAsThieves: [16:26] <+jurov> we need extra-blockchain information to assess them /// do we? each address may function as a user/reputation
ThickAsThieves: and we do have a source for extra-info, the bitcoin software
ThickAsThieves: it's interesting to me to see how much the 3 separate elements would/could function as economies themselves, and how their traits might converge
ThickAsThieves: as in the gazette now wants to be decentalized, like bitcoin
chetty: if the judgement is individual isnt the choice of information source also individual?
ThickAsThieves: well just use the WoT for reference
jurov: okay, my another objection is that rating is not done at the same time as transaction
ThickAsThieves: is the gazette also an economy?
mircea_popescu: ;;rate Oleanie 1 liked my rose
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user Oleanie has been recorded.
ThickAsThieves: jurov that's also not a requirement of the theory as stated
jurov: no that was my objection to using current bitcoin blockchain
ThickAsThieves: no requirement to be timely in your rating
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> bitcoins being the medium, blockchain the gazette, mining the forum? << it's a very limited economy at that, but i guess so.
ThickAsThieves: if the WoT is decentralized, and has verification methods, signing, identities, etc, and bitcoin also does, they start to converge in their features
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists << kinda cxurious about this myself.
ThickAsThieves: (bitcoin and the WoT)
mircea_popescu: <jurov> hmmm but it does not allow negative ratings << 0 to 20, -10 to 10, no diff.
jurov: yes that's the protocol that must be agreed upon
ThickAsThieves: what might be the medium of exchange in the WoT? Rating points, right?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it has no medium of exchange it'd seem, because points are created and destroyed
mircea_popescu: bitcoins, you will note, are never destroyed. neiuther is gold.
ThickAsThieves: maybe just requires creative interpretation
mircea_popescu: neither are fiat bills (not in the sense of the physical bill, but in the sense of it being authorised, it'll get reprinted, and trhe bill is that trademark that spawns the authirisation)
jurov: blockchain.info's "taint analysis" is very crude implementation of WoT, perhaps?
ThickAsThieves: every user has 40 points they can work with, unto any other user
ThickAsThieves: you cant create them
ThickAsThieves: only allocate
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this is what someone was proposing at conference, when i introduced fain
mircea_popescu: and how constants don't work
mircea_popescu: so no, that's what it is : it isn't a wot because it can't be
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> <ThickAsThieves> i have a feeling though, this theory will end up distilling into one that already exists << kinda cxurious about this myself. /// one thing it reminds me of is your basic escrow deal
benkay: fain?
benkay: mircea_popescu: ^^
mircea_popescu: benkay for years before and some time during bitcoin i had a romanian language digg style thing.
mircea_popescu: it had no moderators and no spam.
benkay: no wai
mircea_popescu: yes wai.
benkay: perpetuum mobile
mircea_popescu: it drove most of .ro traffic at some point.
benkay: wow well extravagant claims etc. how'd you do that?
mircea_popescu: prop sauce, but basically it leveraged individual actions to evaluate everyone else's.
mircea_popescu: not so hard to distinguish machines from humans if your machine has a stable with many humans
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> so no, that's what it is : it isn't a wot because it can't be /// well i can accumulate points no? and at any given time, a maximum amount can be had, and every time a user joins anew, the system inflates to accommodate
jurov: i'd extend a punishment gazette with 3. shared protocol and then maybe public forum can be simplified away
benkay: mircea_popescu: i assume the normal 'upvoting rings' developed and existed?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves but any ounce of gold stays an ounce of gold permanently. where do your rating points go when they go ?
mircea_popescu: benkay not effectually, no.
mircea_popescu: let me dig some pretty graphs.
ThickAsThieves: my rating points are held by every user that hasnt given them to me yet
ThickAsThieves: if they take them away, they still exist
ozbot: Activitatea utilizatorilor pe fain pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
benkay: pretty indeed.
ozbot: Sa desenam cu fain pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
benkay: are collusive rings in these content farms necessarily a bad thing?
ThickAsThieves: it's not a typical economy, cuz it has allocation idiosyncracies, but i'm not sure if that disqualifies it
ozbot: Istoria unui proiect online pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: peaks at 10k comments/day
mircea_popescu: benkay no. they're only bad if they dominate
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00098529 = 23.4006 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: otherwise they form and dissolve naturally.
ThickAsThieves: in fact, don't people do things at times strictly for the points?
benkay: what drives formation/dissolution vs dominion?
jurov: !up cgcardona_
assbot: Voicing cgcardona_ for 30 minutes.
jurov: !up tyrion70
assbot: Voicing tyrion70 for 30 minutes.
cgcardona_: thank you
mrstickball: benkay: did you need me for anything?
ThickAsThieves: furthermore, <+mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves but any ounce of gold stays an ounce of gold permanently. where do your rating points go when they go ? /// where is it in your theory that this matters?
ThickAsThieves: also, i'm with jurov, i see some weakness in the gazette/forum definitions and separation
mircea_popescu: benkay that's ocmplicated.
ThickAsThieves: first, the gazette does not require identification in your definition
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves 3.it conserves over time.
ThickAsThieves: however psuedononymous, it may be, identification is required, right?
chetty: oh hey, they up the ante on why btc is bad
ozbot: Europol director warns of paedophiles using Bitcoin to view webcams | Mail Online
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15979 @ 0.00097873 = 15.6391 BTC [-] {2}
cgcardona_: wow thats some url slug
mircea_popescu: chetty daily mail raped babies ?
mircea_popescu: outrageous. i hope the police catches up with them and gives them what for.
ThickAsThieves: hmm maybe i dont fully understand the conserving over time aspect
ThickAsThieves: you mean i can accumulate it?
mircea_popescu: you familiar with the conservation of energy ?
mircea_popescu: even if you expend it, it still goes somewhere.
ThickAsThieves: but didnt i cover that?
ozbot: BBC News - Nigeria: Police probe Ibadan 'house of horror'
mircea_popescu: well, if i unrate you now, where do the points go ?
ThickAsThieves: you took them from me
mircea_popescu: "About 150 soldiers from the 173rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team (Airborne), based in Italy, are heading to each of four countries — Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia — in rotational deployments that the Pentagon says will be sustained until further notice." herp.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves well so where are they ?
ThickAsThieves: the system doesnt need to track them visibly because the system allocates for each ouser in it
ThickAsThieves: for every user, every other user gets 20 neg coins and 20 pos coins
ThickAsThieves: each user may spend them on each other specific user only
ThickAsThieves: under the arrangement that you may also take them back
mircea_popescu: this breaks conservation.
ThickAsThieves: it doesnt just mean it's an economy with special rules?
mircea_popescu: it means it has no moe
ThickAsThieves: i mean i could certainly barter for rating points
ThickAsThieves: i could perform services for pos coins, etc
mircea_popescu: but your proposition was that the rating points are the moe.
mircea_popescu: if they don't conserve, they're not a moe.
mircea_popescu: kinda why doge is a dodgy scam : cause their coins don't conserve.
ThickAsThieves: so the fact that they can be taken back is where it breaks or?
ThickAsThieves: i missed the specific fault
mircea_popescu: the fact that the points do not conserve. think of a medium of exchange as a family.
mircea_popescu: while you can take kids or give them away
mircea_popescu: you can never kill one.
ThickAsThieves: when it is a rating point killed?
mircea_popescu: when you unrate whoever
ThickAsThieves: you took it back
ThickAsThieves: it still exists
ThickAsThieves: you can give it back to me right?
mircea_popescu: so you want 10 points for each user pair ?
ThickAsThieves: if it was killed, you couldnt give back to me
ThickAsThieves: therefore it's not killed
mircea_popescu: and each new user that joins creates n! coins ?
mircea_popescu: you got any idea what n! computes to ?
ThickAsThieves: does it matter?
mircea_popescu: in a much softer sense than before, this'd be practical.
ThickAsThieves: thats why the economy has special rules
ThickAsThieves: it is, for lack of a better term, perfectly and dynamically balanced
mircea_popescu: i guess if your wotcoin actually works so that every user gets 10 coins for every other user present
mircea_popescu: then you technically can argue this is a moe.
ThickAsThieves: so that's 2 out of 3
mircea_popescu: forums are very easy.
mircea_popescu: as much as an irc chan for your wotcoin can suffice.
mircea_popescu: takes 1 second.
ThickAsThieves: to spare me arguing for it, how do you explain forum is an economy?
mircea_popescu: "forum is an economy" wut ?
thestringpuller: i come back to read "forum is economy"
ThickAsThieves: my efforts here are to explore whether each of your 3 aspects are an economy themselves
ThickAsThieves: and in doing do, learn more about how they interact
mircea_popescu: for all we care 4chan or dtng were economies.
ThickAsThieves: and if one is not an economy whether that can polish the theory
mircea_popescu: the moe is "sauce pls" or w/e.
ThickAsThieves: like, why are the gazette and forum even separate things?
mircea_popescu: they don't have to be separate in practice
mircea_popescu: they're separated in theory, like your pulse and blood pressure are separate
mircea_popescu: even if you know... you need a blood for both.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller sad fate eh.
mircea_popescu: "The Bureau of Prisons views any bartering among prisoners as fishy" << funny, seeing how they trade is mostly macks.
ThickAsThieves: it's also possible identifying these all as economies may help distill/evolve the overall theory
ThickAsThieves: i'm just poking and prodding
mircea_popescu: surely. it's a good thing.
mircea_popescu: currently the entire thing is "hey guise, check out this shit i made. i call it... a box cutter. it cuts everything"
mircea_popescu: it's to be expected we'd live in a world of gashes and slashes for a while.
benkay: do economies have to conserve over time?
ThickAsThieves: i also want to demonstrate to others in public so they may be motivated to do a better job than me at prodding it
benkay: or do things increase the size of the pie?
ThickAsThieves: rather than sit there and go "oh cool, long live mircea!"
mircea_popescu: benkay just the moe in order to be a moe.
jurov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reyt3uiQqI8 <<< my impression of thickasthieves' arguing
ozbot: Treadmill Bike - YouTube
mircea_popescu: and an important point is : practical implementations will be more or less neatly mapped on the theoretical requirements. they may still function
mircea_popescu: but the theory predicts that specific changes will be observable to reduce or mitigate the damage due to the particular vulnerabilities.
mircea_popescu: much like kids playing insta-ban specific behaviours they perceive as "unfair"
mircea_popescu: they're obviously in no sense unfair, but they do break the mapping, which is undesirable.
mircea_popescu: so if they're playing poker with bad cards (say, easy to recognise the queen of hearts) they may cut the queen of hearts game utility.
mircea_popescu: like, "but you only get 2/3 of the pot if you win it with a qh" or w/e.
mircea_popescu: it's nonsense to see such a rule in poker, per se. but in the context, as they're trying to map shit to a deck of cards, it makes sense. the change is due to the flaw.
mircea_popescu: in this sense, the fiat taboo on counterfitting is nonsensical, but we didn't notice this to be the case until bitcoin mapped better on the actual reality.
mircea_popescu: similarly, the fiat interdiction on theft, or the bizarre expectations of forumers (whoi mostly live in fiat, cause they're not smart enough for their culture to be programmable by themselves), indignant at hao dares bitbet not "refund"
chetty: hmm bitcoin actually helps point out all the bad queens that have been mapped around over the years
mircea_popescu: well, at least some of them.
mircea_popescu: people arguing about how bitcoin will be obsoleted by "better tech", like that w3c muppet are mostly talking out of their ears.
mircea_popescu: imagine, something finding even better hiden queens ? it'll be centuries baby.
joecool: last i checked we were still using troy ounces for gold
joecool: and everyone hates that system
chetty: well I suppose bitcoin will start its own mapping
benkay: 1B -> /n/gAu, eventually.
benkay: give it three decades.
mircea_popescu: !up cgcardona_
assbot: Voicing cgcardona_ for 30 minutes.
cgcardona_: thank you sir. I authed w/ gribble. guess I forgot to !up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 11 @ 0.0097 = 0.1067 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: i think my personal !up rule will be, I will up you on your first day, or if you are in mobile situations, otherwise, get with the program
mircea_popescu: i kinda up new faces
jurov: well.. that bitbet thing... if someone transferred money in error, it has become common sense to return them
mircea_popescu: there's nothing common or sensible about common sense
jurov: i don';t see how abandoning that notion is an improvement
mircea_popescu: but it depends what you're improving.
jurov: you clearly label that as improvement
mircea_popescu: has it become common sense that if you run over someone you back your car up ?
jurov: i woder how so?
chetty: there is a difference between error and attempt to cheat ...
ThickAsThieves: i feel like i missed the beginning of this conversation
mircea_popescu: i kinda have the same feeling
jurov: in bitbet case, both can easily be treated in the same way
mircea_popescu: all things can easily be treated in the same way
jurov: me sending something to expired addy is in no way harming bitbet
mircea_popescu: that's not actually true.
chetty: if you do it a hundred times it is, takes time and effort to clean up
mircea_popescu: it is harming it in ways you decide to neglect.
mircea_popescu: which is improper, it's not your place to make that decision. it's bitbet's.
davout: jurov: the rationale is that if you count as valid bets that were sent very close to the time limit, and refund those who confirmed slightly after, you're creating an incentive to cheat since failure at cheating isn't punished
mircea_popescu: davout s/punished/punishable/
ThickAsThieves: what's the current rule, if you miss closing you get a refund, if you miss resolution yer fucked?
jurov: yes
davout: isn't it, if you miss either you're fucked ?
ThickAsThieves: it should be
mircea_popescu: currently it works like so : if your bet makes it on bitbet after the bet is closed, it goes to dividends. if your bet makes it before it's closed but after an arbitrary time selected by bitbet mods, you get it back minus 1%
ThickAsThieves: so the only cirumstance for refund is if it's just before closing?
ThickAsThieves: (in this context)
ThickAsThieves: why not publish a fixed time, like 10min before close
mircea_popescu: because it's not fixed, because the bet event can resolve at any given time,
mircea_popescu: whereas the moderators are human beings.
ThickAsThieves: but it is closed at one specific time
ThickAsThieves: nevermind
mircea_popescu: the interval between where the bet event unexpectedly took place and the time when the mod got around to closing the bet is by its nature variable
ThickAsThieves: i get it
jurov: do you have evidence it actually deters cheating?
mircea_popescu: jurov yes, actually.
ThickAsThieves: that's actually the best argument ive heard for the arbitrary aspect so far
ThickAsThieves: surprised it didnt come up before
mircea_popescu: it's what i've been sayinbg all along, but hey.
mircea_popescu: form occasionally beats function.
ThickAsThieves: but the testingunodostres example does still ring sour
ThickAsThieves: but at least i have a somewhat digestible justfication now
mircea_popescu: rings sour to me too.
mircea_popescu: kinda what business is, staying above of an ever rising tide of sour.
ozbot: Jaktogo - travel solution for your extra luggage
mircea_popescu: check out the new terrorist bomber blazer.
ThickAsThieves: would look nice with a pair of Google Glasses
bounce: right, that's the first one I head about. there's a few more that produce a similar thing these days though.
ThickAsThieves: Estimated Next Difficulty:8,193,502,073 (+17.40%)
ozbot: BitBet - May I suggest 9B difficulty?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22348 @ 0.00095446 = 21.3303 BTC [-] {2}
bounce: there's (at least) also rufus roo, bagket, and stuffa jacket
mircea_popescu: s done, the diff ?
ozbot: 6.979 billion | Next Diff in 1170 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.6493% in 6d 23h 55m 34s
mircea_popescu: justabout.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 1 @ 0.14 BTC
ThickAsThieves: i thought my backup drive died while away, turns out it was just the power supply
ThickAsThieves: never had that happen before
bounce: now you know. PSUs die too.
ThickAsThieves: sure, in computers, all the time
ThickAsThieves: but this is a wall wart
bounce: well, obviously, /those/ cannot ever die.
ThickAsThieves: now yer speakin mah langwidge
fluffypony: wb ThickAsThieves
ThickAsThieves: turns out it wasnt the hard drive psu
ThickAsThieves: i just had the wrong one plugged in
ThickAsThieves: my lair is upheaved due to solar installers
ThickAsThieves: the missus informs me that part of Mark Cuban's renewal contract with Shark Tank,
ThickAsThieves: required they no longer take a % of the company for themselves as a requirement to presenters
ThickAsThieves: and that the policy be *retroactive*
ThickAsThieves: ;;gettrust twizt
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ThickAsThieves to user twizt: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ThickAsThieves&dest=twizt | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=twizt | Rated since: Mon Apr 14 23:22:42 2014
ThickAsThieves: lol, Wired farts out a whole article cuz GoT has incestual rape scene http://www.wired.com/2014/04/game-of-thrones-rape/
ThickAsThieves: commenters are all in a tizzy
ThickAsThieves: "Cry me a river. It's a fucking tv show."
ThickAsThieves: "o, it's not. It's a public statement made by the director of a TV show which implies that if a woman being raped begins to enjoy it, it was never rape in the first place. This is worthy of discussion since it is tantamount to saying that all women enjoy being raped because deep down, they all love it, and all of their screaming and crying and desperate fighting to defend themselves
ThickAsThieves: against rape are lies. (Insert obligatory comment about reading TFA before commenting here.)"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm around now, been out all day.
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I bet they thought that was a good idea at the time
mircea_popescu: Naphex you here ?
fluffypony: weren't we talking about quantum computing earlier?
ThickAsThieves: not exactly flyffypony
fluffypony: oh it was mentioned in the context of Mirceanomics
fluffypony: I remember now
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 502 @ 0.00022073 = 0.1108 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.525 = 2.1 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://abstrusegoose.com/564 << this (unfortunately minus the second half!) actually happened.
ozbot: Abstruse Goose | Quantum Secrets
asciilifeform: ;;google lumped approximation
gribble: Lumped element model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumped_element_model>; Lumped Approximation - inst.eecs: <http://inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~ee100/fa08/lectures/EE100supplementary_notes_1a.pdf>; Lumped vs. Distributed Systems - CCRMA - Stanford University: <https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/NumericalInt/Lumped_vs_Distributed_Systems.html>
asciilifeform: used to be, you had to understand maxwell's equations to fuck with electronics
ozbot: A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
BingoBoingo: Everything comes back to Peirce
mircea_popescu: seems that way
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in case you missed: http://loper-os.org/pub/humans
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I saw. Seems I'll have to work on clearing up that awful pending legal matter so that I may cross borders next year.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: or build glider.
asciilifeform: me colleagues, viewing photos: 'damnit skip to the next one with the girl!'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Maybe that powdered alcohol will be cheap enough to build a rocket, because I don't anticipate it being very drinkable.
mircea_popescu: "Once the tobacco is on the compound, the pouches wholesale for 50 books of stamps, or $300 each. Each pouch is then broken down into 80 to 100 tiny rollups that cost one book each, or six dollars. A $3 pouch of Bugler ends up retailing inside for about $600—a 20,000% markup."
asciilifeform: i had to explain that these are not issued at the airport.
mircea_popescu: holy shit. this is almost as good as the music industry.
asciilifeform: letmeguess
asciilifeform: russian prison
mircea_popescu: mno. us.
asciilifeform: this is how people get the idea that giant sums move in the prison
asciilifeform: they don't
ozbot: With Cigarettes Banned In Most Prisons, Gangs Shift From Drugs To Smokes - The Daily Beast
asciilifeform: the prices are merely reflective of scarcity.
asciilifeform: like washington housing.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: one day (tm) we rocket straight out of this pisshole, never look back.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they do, to the same degree huge sums move in us banking system.
mircea_popescu: "hgere's a book of stamps worth 3 trn"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30656 @ 0.00095738 = 29.3494 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Still the other medium of exchange (stamps) have a fixed value outside the prison
mircea_popescu: "here's a debentures package in exchange, worth 5 trn. good deal for you"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yes. fixed to 0.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck uses stamps.
BingoBoingo: I do rather frequently.
asciilifeform: can't recall the last time using stamp
mircea_popescu: you're a weirdo.
BingoBoingo: I've also on occasion GPG signed snail mail
mircea_popescu: last time i used stamps i was making lolpasties for tits.
asciilifeform: even mailing cheques, nowadays one generally uses bank feature that autoprints one and mails
benkay: asciilifeform: and yet i have to explain this to just about 1/3 clients.
benkay: granted, my clients are small and derpy with the technology.
BingoBoingo: Well most of the communication with the lawyer has been either in person or over the mail.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: re: rocketing out of pesthole - http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Home_20Escape_20Vehicle
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Very interesting. I was actually thinking about maybe going cheap and just canoeing the mississippi and gulf coast to Mexico
ozbot: dsm
asciilifeform: yours truly as bored schoolboy
mircea_popescu: !up alexsanjose
assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Now I'm going to have to digest that entire site's text
asciilifeform: lul, don't, it's horrifying
BingoBoingo: horrifying text is the best
mircea_popescu: anyway. BingoBoingo how would you like to do some btc/usd arbitrage for me too ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I don't think I have the time to effectively do btc/usd artbitrage
mircea_popescu: it's basically just a scaled up version of the atc thing
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose you the reuters chick ?
BingoBoingo: Well, the outstanding student loan debts make holding any substantial USD impractical
mircea_popescu: i'd be holding it.
mircea_popescu: on this tiny romanian exchange Naphex's been trying to get into shape
mircea_popescu: currently the spread is wider than my fist.
mircea_popescu: (to speak you type in the bottom bar and hit enter)
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: can't be much volume tho?
mircea_popescu: fluffypony wouldn't be much, no.
BingoBoingo: I don't think I've ever worked to narrow a spread. I've tried to keep the ATC spread as wide as Hilary's ass.
mircea_popescu: spreads narrow naturally.
BingoBoingo: I'll think on it.
mircea_popescu: anyway, my idea is, ima open an acct, give you 10 btc or w/e, you can trade around but not withdraw.
BingoBoingo: That might work.
mircea_popescu: course gotta see if the guy's amenable to it too, but otherwise should be win-win-win, he gets some activity, you get more trading experience, i get some gains or w/e.
fluffypony: I played around with arbitrage on BitX.co.za, crappy local exchange, as it generally sits ~5% above Bitstamp, but with a daily volume of ~10 BTC it ends up being a lot of work for maybe $50 in profit
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: If he's amenable to the thing I'll probably be inclined to try it as there's a bit more details nao. I'm going to drink on this idea and let tomorrow's hangover show the way.
benkay: how are you still getting hangovers, BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: works. show up on some sort of romanian time tho, otherwise we'll be all thestringpullering this for a week :D
benkay: HO HO ZING
mircea_popescu: benkay liver transplant.
BingoBoingo: Oh, what did thestringpuller do recently?
benkay: constantly pinging myself and mod6 in -assets
benkay: leastaways, i assume that's what mircea_popescu 's on about
mircea_popescu: poor guy. we love you still thestringpuller, it's just cute is all.
BingoBoingo: benkay: I still get hangovers because I drink to win.
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: quitting is for losers
benkay: to be fair to thestringpuller mod6 and i've been unpredictably online lately
benkay: caught a message in the middle of marinading pork over the weekend, f'r instance.
benkay: "nuh-uh, buddy. busy cooking atm."
mircea_popescu: benkay i made epic bbq rib today.
BingoBoingo: Is there any other kind?
mircea_popescu: well there's lousy...
mircea_popescu: but i don;t make that.
BingoBoingo: Sometime this summer I want to try a standing beef rib roast on the kettle grill.
fluffypony: I had a braai (bbq) last night, also did ribs
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.53149999 BTC [+]
fluffypony: although I think I'm over pork ribs, going back to beef
mircea_popescu: this was open gas oven. not ideal, but i found a way to use the cast iron pan's handle to prop the door open just enough. gets it reasonably cool.
BingoBoingo: Interesting.
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: that's the way forward, I tend to burn my meat a lil' on an open flame, but in the Weber I can shove the coals to the side and let it cook at leisure
benkay: coal grilling?
benkay: take me back.,
fluffypony: wood oals
fluffypony: *coals
BingoBoingo: benkay: Well charcoal.
benkay: no i mean takes me back to middle school when i was learning to grill caveman style
benkay: these days all i want is a hot gas flowing by
fluffypony: gas doesn't give the meat the same flavour
benkay: ya well
BingoBoingo: I haven't seen many gas grills that can get hot enough for steaks.
fluffypony: plus a charcoal braai is a South African tradition, we even have a public holiday that has become Braai Day (nfi what the actual holiday is for any longer)
benkay: there are tradeoffs everywhere.
benkay: BingoBoingo: lolwut
benkay: hot enough for Maillard on the surface?
fluffypony: benkay: gas is awesome for breakfast, nothing like a good morning fry-up
BingoBoingo: benkay: Well hot enough for a proper sear.
fluffypony: I'm with BingoBoingo on this one - if you're going to sear a steak...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude you nuts, gas burns at like 2k degrees
mircea_popescu: it's hot enough to work glass and forge steel.
fluffypony ponders a 2am leftover rib snack
fluffypony: crap is it that late
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: American gas grills typically top out around 600F at a cooking height above the burners. Because we suck. (problem can be remedied by using acetylene instead of propane
moiety: lol fluffypony i replied to that thread on btctalk.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo europe uses nat gas. ch4 burns hot.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: 'Murica uses Propane
mircea_popescu: propane sucks.
BingoBoingo: On grils
mircea_popescu: it smells bad too
mircea_popescu: i mean ppl say "gas is not the same flavour", but : propane stinks.
mircea_popescu: methane is inodorous.
benkay: oh
benkay: see i typically cook on grills wired into the natural gas
BingoBoingo: Inside gas is still CH4, but LPG in portable tanks is propane primarily
fluffypony: moiety: did you at least get a pink knitted jersey with the Bitcoin logo on it?
moiety: hello all
benkay: ey moiety
moiety: fluffypony: i didn't even go to the site
moiety: ooh benkay sans `
BingoBoingo: People out in the boonies use propane for household use if they lack infrastructure for real gas
BingoBoingo: hello moiety
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00096232 = 21.171 BTC [+] {2}
moiety: hi BingoBoingo :D how's you?
BingoBoingo: Not bad
BingoBoingo: !up alexsanjose
assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: Oh, rabite got voiced this morning?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00096334 = 23.2165 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: "The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau told CNN that its approval of Palchohol was an error."
ozbot: Perri-Air - YouTube
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Have you read any of the paper work on the hows of it?
ThickAsThieves: i have not
ThickAsThieves: while i see no reason it shouldnt be legal, it's obviously gonna destroy some shit
ThickAsThieves: "5. How is it made? If we told you, we'd have to shoot you. We are in the process of patenting it and it is currently patent pending."
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: My objection to it as recreational consumer is that the carbohydrates are going to make shit too sweet.
ThickAsThieves: "Palcohol is gluten free."
BingoBoingo: Basically you disolve the alcohol into a mix of sugars and higher molecular weight carbohydrates.
BingoBoingo: And it seems by weight they can't even get that much alcohol into the stuff.
ThickAsThieves: they claim the weight is intentional
ThickAsThieves: to deter snorters
BingoBoingo: The weight is necessary, because alcohol is a substance
BingoBoingo: with physical properties
ozbot: Butterfly Labs Production of Requested Information (December 6, 2013)
BingoBoingo: It's physical properties preclude it from being as snortable as say... cocaine and heroin... because it takes quite a bit of alcohol by mass to induce the desired effect.
ThickAsThieves: meanwhile the BFL 28nm chips still havent shipped?
BingoBoingo: They have not to my knowledge
mircea_popescu: moiety i wonder if there's any money in "famous star queefs"
mircea_popescu: "buy a bottle of angelina jolie's pussy air!"
benkay: cunt drafts
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yes.
BingoBoingo: Spz an one ounce shot of vodka, which is ~32 grams... That's about 10 grams of ETOH plus binders to get up the nose
BingoBoingo: Once the binders are accounted for that's probably still in the end 32 grams just to take a shot of vodka nasally.
joecool: i assume insufflation of alcohol would be a bad time, does it even matter to bulk it up?
joecool: i would guess it would burn and end up with instant bloody nose if you tried
moiety: lol mircea_popescu i'd imagine some celebrities would be cheaper and more supply than others, like lindsay lohan compared to lisa kudrow for example
BingoBoingo: joecool: Well the bulk is necessary to render it a powder
mircea_popescu: moiety i wonder if portia de rossi cuntair would go for more than lisa kudrwo cunt air
mircea_popescu: seeing how... lezzie, no cock stink.
joecool: BingoBoingo: what are they using as a bulking agent, dextrose?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo one chick i knew was on a half bottle of white wine anally pre-going to town diet for a while.
mircea_popescu: relaxed her nicely.
mircea_popescu: just as good as snorting except much better.
BingoBoingo: joecool: Older attempts indeed used dextrose along with some heavier carbohydrates. Probably the same or similar here
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Indeed. That route of administration has a reputation for efficiency
moiety: mircea_popescu: i think it would, she wins on the exotic front
moiety: what a waste of wine
moiety: oh i was getting portia totally mixed up... but i stand by my yes
moiety: i was thinking of Isabella Rossellini
moiety: ah its nice to be back lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33781 @ 0.00096334 = 32.5426 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: I wonder how much some Maya Angelou or Angela Merkel would go for.
mod6: eew
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 60 @ 0.0048 = 0.288 BTC [+]
moiety: these need to be on the rare whiffs section BingoBoingo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28900 @ 0.0009568 = 27.6515 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: moiety: Naturally, but definitely not on the discount whiffs.
moiety: political pussys
moiety: oh of course
ThickAsThieves: "A massive computer failure at the US Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) is reportedly wreaking havoc on US immigration courts, with application outages continuing well into their second week."
ThickAsThieves: i havent adorned mine since the week they arrived...
ThickAsThieves: i'm embarassed to wear them around the house, nevermind in public
ThickAsThieves: they had that one day where anyone could buy a Google Glass, that was probably them cashing out
BingoBoingo: I think that is all of the endorsement Google Glass needs. Abandoned faster than NeoBBQ
moiety: it's funny what's said about glass at coachella, when there was a giant snail going about filming everything
kakobrekla: !up alexsanjose
assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
kakobrekla: hi alexsanjose , you may type in this box
alexsanjose: hi thanks kakobrekla
alexsanjose: your user name is way better than mine btw
ozbot: Twitter / BrendanKutyNJ: #RedSox fan mocking #yankees ...
kakobrekla: lol, thanks but yours isnt bad either!
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: He's had more time to practice his username
kakobrekla: so if i get this correctly you want to speak with mircea_popescu
kakobrekla: well hopefully he pops back in soon enough
alexsanjose: would there be a way to sked a chat in here?
kakobrekla: he is online most of the any day.
alexsanjose: i m such a luddite
BingoBoingo: Seriously. He is nearly always online.
asciilifeform: re: solid alcohol: the word is clathrate.
asciilifeform: ;;google clathrate
gribble: Clathrate compound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_compound>; Methane clathrate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate>; Clathrate hydrate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_hydrate>
alexsanjose: not too good for a cocktail
kakobrekla: alexsanjose , IRC is not always a real time thing, but once you get the conversation going its the best way to go
alexsanjose: understood
ThickAsThieves: it is like 4am in mp's timezone though
alexsanjose: what time zone are you/mircea in ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I had a suspicion you'd be the first person to bring the c-word into this
kakobrekla: yes but in his internal clock that is like 6 pm.
asciilifeform: chemistry, i didn't invent.
asciilifeform: it sort of existed without me
asciilifeform: like many other useful things
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Your general technical curiosity would lead you to find it if you hadn't had it already
asciilifeform: re: arbitrage people - i've an arbitrobot, common lisp, sits sadly, 'cockpit glass to the sky, wings with holes'
alexsanjose: hmm its nearly 8 pm here. perhaps i should try back tomorrow morning
alexsanjose: if i can figure out how to log back in with my crappy user name :)
kakobrekla: lol, no sweat.
asciilifeform: and wtf the point of solid ethanol? snorting?
asciilifeform: the brits already have a monstrosity where you breathe EtOH through a mask
asciilifeform: no distillation byproduct oils, no hangover.
kakobrekla: alexsanjose at least we got you talking
asciilifeform: but, why.
alexsanjose: baby steps
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Seems the impetus is novelty sales.
alexsanjose: pretty soon i ll be commenting openly on solid ethanol
alexsanjose: thanks for your help kakobrekla
kakobrekla: welcome
kakobrekla: hopefully someone will voice you when you rejoin
kakobrekla: if not, try to bug someone on private (usually you can open a private window by doublecliking on the nickname)
asciilifeform: re: cooking with acetylene - fellow DIY crackpot suggested to me, hooking an oxygen cylinder to the air intake of laser cutter in place of compressor
asciilifeform: apparently cuts sheet steel!
TestingUnoDosTre: ill keep an eye out
asciilifeform: (down side - might end up 'Darkman')
BingoBoingo: Thankfully ETOH troche's already exist (Jello Shots in the vulgate)
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose so what;s up ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo prolly has a pantryfull of golda meir stashed away.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: How'd you guess?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i have powers. atm, watch me ping pong with my alex alt to troll kako.
kakobrekla: you did not say that.
mircea_popescu: twasn't me.
asciilifeform: ;;google water torch
gribble: Water torch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_torch>; DIY HHO Torch (Water Torch) for only $4 - Instructables: <http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-HHO-Torch-Water-Torch-for-only-4/>; turn water to fire - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwlOw7iCNrI>
asciilifeform: that'd go great with laser.
BingoBoingo: I keep the Golda Meir next to Menachem Begin's cunny wafts
mircea_popescu: these people and their names. zeev dov ? srsly ?
mircea_popescu: makes dweezil sound tame.
asciilifeform: doron zeilberger.
TestingUnoDosTre: i don't see these people?
ozbot: Opinions of Doron Zeilberger
asciilifeform: linked off my site's sidebar.
mircea_popescu: "It is about time to abolish the immoral institution of `Anonymous Referee'. Even in the paper era, with its paper-mentality elitism, it was superfluous. A paper is either worth publishing or not. If it is not, you should have the guts to say it out loud, and if you are right, the author should thank you for saving him or her embarrassment."
asciilifeform: anyone who ever took part in the academia racket knows that 'anonymous referees' is a crock o'shit
asciilifeform: you can always tell who the 'mean girlz' are
BingoBoingo: Pretty much
thestringpuller: asciilifeform have you ever seen warehouse 13?
asciilifeform: negative
thestringpuller: you remind me of a character from that show
gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is not identified.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: see voiced with no auth
mircea_popescu: is it good or bad when one reminds of show characters ?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller yes, if gribble blinks. i was in that situation earier today
thestringpuller: in this case it's a good thing
BingoBoingo: Probably depends on show and character
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo overall.
asciilifeform: i was recently accused of being rick, from 'rick and morty'
BingoBoingo: Given the number of shit shows and shit characters, the default assumption probably ought to be negative, but there is probably a positive bias because these things tend to happen on the basic that the characters were memorable
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: that's a compliment if I ever heard one
thestringpuller: since rick is probably what I'd want to be if I were a grandpa
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Why aren't you a grandpa?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00096019 = 17.8595 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: !up alexsanjose
assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: hey alexsanjose
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: i would first have to have kids no?
mircea_popescu: imo asciilifeform is 100% dexter, boy genius.
mircea_popescu: we just need to engineer him a blue eyed, goldilocks'd ballerina
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Sure
mircea_popescu: to ruin his show.
alexsanjose: hi mircea
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu used to watch dexter's lab? wow
alexsanjose: i understand its like 4 am your time
mircea_popescu: i like 3 cartoon shows, cow and chicken, animaniacs and dexter's lab.
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose i don't keep regular hours.
alexsanjose: needless to say
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: most people here don't keep close to regular hours
alexsanjose: you sure? i can happily bug you tomorrow
mircea_popescu: makes no difference.
TestingUnoDosTre: are you talking to yourself? I'm confused here
mircea_popescu: TestingUnoDosTre well... maybe it's late where you are ? :D
alexsanjose: so, i guess to start i was wondering if you could tell me what your role is w BitBet
mircea_popescu: i'm a cofounder.
mircea_popescu: did you read the contract, incidentally ?
alexsanjose: me? no
TestingUnoDosTre: whyd you say "watch me ping pong with my alex alt to troll kako" ?
alexsanjose: what contract?
ozbot: S.BBET last 357@0.00055999
BingoBoingo: The contract is on the MPEx page for the security
mircea_popescu: TestingUnoDosTre yes, but I WAS TROLLING KAKO when i said that.
mircea_popescu: see ? double meta.
alexsanjose: wow lots of info thanks
BingoBoingo: Personally I am waiting for S.MNKY
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Where did you first hear about BitBet?
alexsanjose: I saw it on a website that was evaluating bitcoin gambling sites
alexsanjose: cant remember which
alexsanjose: so, mircea_popescu, what drove u and your cofounder to set up bitbet
mircea_popescu: "He’s ostentatious – he once folded up paper airplanes made of money and threw them from Vkontakte office windows."
mircea_popescu: this is supposed to be ostentatious ? since when is russian paper worth anything ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rick and morty do timisoara << lol! morty is 'rotor'!
asciilifeform: (for some reason i always thought of this situation as 'rotor/stators')
alexsanjose: hmm ok
alexsanjose: thats a primer on sniffing out fraud
mircea_popescu: you're missing a lot of history. at the time i made mpex, there existed a "competitor", glbse. it was basically a scam, and has meanwhile died
mircea_popescu: (and reincarnated, and died again, 3x)
mircea_popescu: at the time we made bitbet, there also existed a "competitor", i forget the exact thing
mircea_popescu: it also died
mircea_popescu: betssomething
mircea_popescu: it's a pattern, this.
asciilifeform: reincarnated, and died again << 'Ленин - жил, Ленин - жив, Ленин - будет жить!'
alexsanjose: but what made you decide in jan 2013 that this would be a good business to get into?
asciilifeform: ('lenin - lived, lenin - lives, lenin - shall live!')
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever found http://trilema.com/2010/lich/ btw ?
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: The erstwhile competitor to BitBet was betsofbitco.in (Operator has since disappeared)
alexsanjose: thanks
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose i don't do business per se. i tend to provide critical infrastructure pieces for bitcoin finance is all.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lich << yes!
mircea_popescu: one of my fav stories, koscei
asciilifeform: 'Fairy Tales are blamed for teaching children that there are such things as monsters. Children already know that there are monsters. What Fairy Tales really teach is that monsters can be killed.'
alexsanjose: but when u earn 1.19395524 BTC in March, a portion goes to shareholders, a portion to operations and a portion to u no?
mircea_popescu: and perhaps also should.
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose i'm worth about a million give or take.
alexsanjose: what currency?
mircea_popescu: bitcoin, which obviously isn't a currency.
mircea_popescu: i'm also worth a few million atc, i guess, which is a similar problem. what sort of business opportunity did i see there ?
mircea_popescu: well... not exactly business per se.
asciilifeform: alexsanjose: what was your guess? zimbabwe dollars?
alexsanjose: hahaha
alexsanjose: colones
ozbot: Portret al artistului la tinerete pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: that's about 1mn colones or so.
alexsanjose: so i read the faq on the website, but can you walk me thru placing a bet?
mircea_popescu: i guess... ANY currency. hey, cool.
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose do you have a bitcoin wallet ?
alexsanjose: i m a consommate luddite
asciilifeform: alexsanjose: it takes about the same titanic intellectual effort as operating... a lift.
mircea_popescu: well then we got problems.
alexsanjose: why s that
mircea_popescu: consummate ?
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: We're going to flip a coin.
BingoBoingo: Heads is Multibit, tails is Electrum
mircea_popescu: well because without bitcoin you don't exist. also because you need it to bet on bitbet.
mircea_popescu: !up btclovernick
assbot: Voicing btclovernick for 30 minutes.
alexsanjose: hard currency is so 2009 i know :)
mircea_popescu: not all that useful these days.
BingoBoingo: Currency died in the 1970's it is all about assets nao
btclovernick: why is price below $500
kakobrekla: and now !down ...
mircea_popescu: btclovernick well had you been here asking earlier it could have been perhaps averted
BingoBoingo: btclovernick: Because Bitstamp fractional reserve
alexsanjose: i was just surprised because i know the sites i m familiar with require custoemrs to set up an account
alexsanjose: transfer money from their wallet
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose that'd be part of the great power of bitcoin. you don't need accounts.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: They way Bitbet works is everything is tied to addresses
btclovernick: mircea_popescu assobt?
btclovernick: what do u mean
mircea_popescu: !down btclovernick
BingoBoingo: Instead of accounts everything is merely a ledger balance, forced into the right place
BingoBoingo: Through a respect for the immutability of actual history
ozbot: Preview
asciilifeform: (re: price wtf)
kakobrekla: !up alexsanjose
assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
alexsanjose: thanks
alexsanjose: so if i bet that obama is going to say bitcoin before 2015
alexsanjose: it costs me 0.22 BTC if i want to bet yes?
asciilifeform: this'll be like yeltsin, standing on tank, saying '-former- soviet union.'
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose you can bey any sum you wish.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: You can place any amount. It may be easier if you go through the process of placing a position on BitBet. I can give/lend you a balance to do this depending on your agency's ethic's rules.
alexsanjose: kind of u
mircea_popescu: ya srsly.
alexsanjose: prolly some sort of ethics violation there. i ll ask tho
alexsanjose: so u bet the sum that u wish
alexsanjose: and the odds below lay out your earnings should u win
BingoBoingo: Well, odds given existing bets.
BingoBoingo: Large bets can move the pot considerably.
alexsanjose: ie, if u bet 1 btc, and obama says it before jan 2015, you get 1.24683344 BTC
BingoBoingo: The thing is mutual betting so it is pile of money and weight versus other pile of money and weight.
BingoBoingo: To guarentee odds you may need to place multiple bets.
BingoBoingo: It's like a prediction market but sane
BingoBoingo: Not simple, but sane
alexsanjose: the odds shift as the numbers of players and amounts of bets shifts the balance on either side?
asciilifeform: other fun feature, in my eyes, is that a prediction market has an... action market, 'inside, wiggling to get out.'
BingoBoingo: And bets are committed until the bet's resolution.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And that is what decay's sanity. Not the stress, but the roundworms
alexsanjose: but on the mechanics of it, kust to be simple, assuming the odds dont change -- i put in 1 btc and get out 1.24 if i win
alexsanjose: if i lose i lose the entire 1 btc i bet, correct?
ozbot: Twitter / anjiecast: Aaron Sorkin apologizes for ...
BingoBoingo: If you lose you lose your whole stake
alexsanjose: wouldnt i tho?
BingoBoingo: If you win though, it really depends on what happens to the pot after you place your bet. You could win more or less.
alexsanjose: its february, 2015. obama has overlooked a growing trend and failed to mention those two syllables -- i lose 100 pct of the bet i placed, no?
alexsanjose: but if i lose?
BingoBoingo: If you lose you lose. That part is simple. Winning is the complicated part.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: I dunno if you parse python much, but the math for calculating winnings is all in here https://bitcointa.lk/threads/is-bitbet-us-buggy.86712/#post-1492473
mircea_popescu: TestingUnoDosTre bounce artifexd mike_c and the rest of the supermath python gurus : maybe write a script that takes a bet and spits out the moving odds as the bets come in ?
BingoBoingo: If you don't parse it someone from it can for you.
alexsanjose: and what s the rake?
mircea_popescu: like an old bet i mean, with a lot of bets on it.
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose 1% yeah
alexsanjose: and does that account for 100 pct of the profit?
artifexd: Is there a feed or would I have to continually poll?
mircea_popescu: artifexd no there's feeds.
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose bitbet also sells advertising
ozbot: BitBet - An ASIC unit from either BFL, Avalon or BTCFPGA will ship before Feb 1st.
asciilifeform: i notice that the folks who are innocent of python et al can still work a spreadshit. somebody maybe post a spreadshit for them.
mircea_popescu: http://www.alexalper.com/resume/ << check it out, the luddite has a dedicated website.
ozbot: Alex Alper » Resume
mircea_popescu: how's capeverdian creole sound like ?
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: That bet I linked http://bitbet.us/bet/34/an-asic-unit-from-either-bfl-avalon-or/ gives a good dataset for understanding how successive bets affect bitbet winnings
alexsanjose: thanks
artifexd: Hey, look at that. There's even a twitter feed that I can pull from.
mircea_popescu: artifexd better pull from the feeds tho. kakobrekla what were the feeds again /
alexsanjose: so what is the breakdown on profit -- rake v advertising?
BingoBoingo: It varies month to month
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose you know it's in the reports, there's a special line for advertising
mircea_popescu: i think it's about 10% as a degree of magnitude
alexsanjose: cape verdean creole is like simplified portuguese - mo ki bu sta?
BingoBoingo: much of the profit comes from infrequent, but increasingly frequent massive bets
alexsanjose: i ll look for it later
mircea_popescu: interesting. an' Frenchand Malinke ?
alexsanjose: and where do the bets come from? is that something you guys come up w ?
alexsanjose: Malinke is awesome
kakobrekla: artifexd rss feeds are linked on right side, if that is what you need
mircea_popescu: what do you mean where they come from o.O
alexsanjose: its like an alternative view of reality
asciilifeform: alexsanjose: simplified portuguese << as in 'africaans' vs dutch ?
alexsanjose: but who s interviewing who :)
artifexd: I want something more push-y than pull-y
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose are you just in love with some native speaker ?
mircea_popescu: this is irc, we got time.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: BBET statements http://trilema.com/category/sbbet/
alexsanjose: no its just interesting. for english speakers romance languages sorta open your world view when they teach u subjunctive and then the african languages is like a whol different kettle of fish
alexsanjose: but i digress
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you know it occurs to me it's probably like a particular cognitive skill, being able to follow irc convos. "disentagle a skein of thought" as the expression went.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Sometimes they come up with bet, sometimes assholes like me write bets http://bitbet.us/bet/769/crimea-2-electric-boogaloo/
asciilifeform: today i lined up a bunch of inglischers and had them try reading Ro street signs, menus, etc. from photographs.
alexsanjose: for example there is a way to say "my" when u mean "myhusband" and a different "my" for "my bitcoin wallet" cuz humans matter more
kakobrekla: not more than bitcoin wallet
alexsanjose: haha! and do u deliberately try to space out the bets so a tricle of them are coming due every week month etc?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Of course it is. And the best practice for this is plato when he is modeling a drunk crowd in the dialogues.
asciilifeform: mein Führer.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: They really can't. Even mircea_popescu can't affect when the world series ends.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo arguably.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well not this decade.
mircea_popescu: end it all!!11
alexsanjose: BingoBoingo, do u mind if i ask u what your role is w bitbet since u re kindly asnwering a bunch of my qs?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla your bitcoin wallet thanks you for your loyalty.
kakobrekla: i kno rite
mircea_popescu: he just likes talking to girls.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: I bet there and I submit bets to there. More than half of my submitted bets have been rejected. I' a regualr in this channel though.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39970 @ 0.00095715 = 38.2573 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: alexsanjose: kakobrekla author of bitbet.
alexsanjose: why rejected?
BingoBoingo: Also, I'm kind drunk. Lemme quantify real quick.
alexsanjose: oh man
asciilifeform: wait gurls where
alexsanjose: this is the best interview ever :)
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose is that san jose as in san jose, cr ?
alexsanjose: was just there covering elections but back in mexico city
mircea_popescu: eres tica ?
alexsanjose: pura vida
mircea_popescu: hehe aite.
BingoBoingo: Thanks to Overstock.com replacing Roger Ver as used electronics Bitcoin Jesus I am kinda confident I am BAC 0.257 drunk
alexsanjose: de donde sos
mircea_popescu: no yo soy rumeno.
BingoBoingo: Va a changarse
BingoBoingo: *chengarse
alexsanjose: so wait, why do bets get rejected?
alexsanjose: is there a min or max for the bets?
mircea_popescu: anyway, spent some time in san jose, originally landed there planing to stay a week, ended up staying like 3 years.
alexsanjose: oh really?
alexsanjose: u still there?
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Because MP, kakobrekla and MP's slavegirls don't think it is interesting is the big rejection reason
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose bets as in propositions get rejected, because not everything can be bet on. see the faq on bitbet, it details it.
alexsanjose: but wait it s not 4 am there
mircea_popescu: im in timisoara atm.
kakobrekla: BingoBoingo i dont partake in that ordeal
BingoBoingo: Ah, thx kakobrekla for clarifying
mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/propositions/ << you can see rejections here.
ozbot: BitBet - NPDA College Debate Championship 2013 - McKendree College to win
alexsanjose: ah rejected possible topics bets! i thot u meant that if someone wants to bet too little money their bet was rejected
mircea_popescu: there's no minimum
alexsanjose: and rake is charged immediately?
BingoBoingo: Even the pettiest shit is betable if you can guarentee a starting stake
mircea_popescu: because of bitcoin mining fees however, it's not really worth it to bet under 0.00005 or w/e
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose no, the rake is charged on resolution.
alexsanjose: is it possible for u to win and have no net gain? like so many humans take the same side as u and no one opposes and so u all just get back what u put in?
alexsanjose: minus 1 pct
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo btw, for your info it's chi not cha che etc
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose yes, it's possible. also discussed in the faq.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, somethings are hard to pick up from sound.
mircea_popescu: generally happens when people bet very late on a widely dominating side.
BingoBoingo: I could also swear I read che before
mircea_popescu: say a bet started today ending next month with a 10:1 spread, you bet in 3 weeks on the 10 side.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Here's a writeup on some of the bigger bets in BitBet history for some perspective http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/03/16/interlude-the-big-bets/
alexsanjose: thank u guys
BingoBoingo: Eh, ReutersEmily seemed more inquisitive
BingoBoingo: The wired guy pretty much hid in PM's
alexsanjose: so -- apols if this is out there -- but i see monthly profits. DO u have annual for 2013?
BingoBoingo: Which was kinda suck
mircea_popescu: yeah, is reuters small enough by now you know emily flitter ?
alexsanjose: cuz u were operating a full year
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose never published annuals.
alexsanjose: do u have that info?
mircea_popescu: well you add up the 12 monthlies
alexsanjose: i guess i can do math
mircea_popescu: nobody much cares about years in btc.
alexsanjose: what about active users?
BingoBoingo: ;;google site:bitcoin-assets.com ReutersEmily
gribble: home | log | bash | stats | wiki - bitcoin-assets: <http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?page=2&order=dateup>; 89 - bash - bitcoin-assets: <http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=89>; #bitcoin-assets stats: <http://stats.bitcoin-assets.com/>
alexsanjose: is there a way to estimate that if folks dont have their own accounts?
BingoBoingo: What do you mean not have their own accounts?
BingoBoingo: There are a lot of ways this assumption could fork
BingoBoingo: !up alexsanjose
assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
kakobrekla: incidentally i already linked her that.
BingoBoingo teases benkay with brisket
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yours wasn't as good tho.
BingoBoingo: !up benkay
assbot: Voicing benkay for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla because you see it's a different my when you talk about bitcoin wallets than persons.
alexsanjose: thank u
benkay: hey
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose seriously, someone over at reuters has to eventually figure out how to create a gpg key, reg it with gribble, get in the wot.
BingoBoingo: benkay: All of your thoughts on BitBet on demanded nao!
mircea_popescu: benkay can't up nao ?
alexsanjose: that person will sadly not be alexsanjose
benkay: jesus
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: THe alternative is we switch allegiances to AP
benkay: i'm writing an email, assholes
alexsanjose: hahaha
mircea_popescu: i can't recall who the ap guy was here.
alexsanjose: well i ll miss the spoon feeding
mircea_popescu: benkay want a postmark ?
BingoBoingo: Well benkay Maybe you ought to take your tongue out of fluffypony's wife's asshole
mircea_popescu: wait what ?!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Honesly I dun remember an AP guy
alexsanjose: but here s my question -- so if i can go on, without registering, logging into an account --
alexsanjose: and i made say three bets
mircea_popescu consults his wall markings. two wired, one forbes one bi, one ap etc
alexsanjose: in 2 months
alexsanjose: can u track all those bets to the same user
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Maybe they can
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose depends whether you want us to.
alexsanjose: ie do u have accurate figures on how many active users u have
mircea_popescu: not really. we don't even bother keeping analytics, so.
mircea_popescu: who cares.
kakobrekla: its more than 2.
alexsanjose: alexsanjose does
alexsanjose: but that s cool
mircea_popescu: it's certainly more than a dozen cause at least a dozen diff people here bugged me abouyt it
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: If they go off of addresses alone I am 20 some users. If they narrow things down based on shit talking I am 2-3 users
kakobrekla: alexsanjose the things we can measure, we measure and publish, see numbers in the footer on bitbet
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose bitcoin is fungible. bitbet did 15k btc in total bets or so
mircea_popescu: whether this is 15k people or 3 is immaterial.
alexsanjose: ok that was my next question
alexsanjose: bet volume
alexsanjose: 15k btc in total bets -- from jan 2013 to march 2014?
kakobrekla: almost april
alexsanjose: so i can use the above phrasing?
mircea_popescu: incidentallyt, there've been a total of about 10k bets, so that's an upper bound
mircea_popescu: we couldn't possibly have more than 10k diofferent users.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, that means that the AVERAGE bet is like 1.5 btc,
mircea_popescu: which afaik is unheard of.
alexsanjose: so 10,000 bets, of 15,000 btc in a little over a year
alexsanjose: yes math
mircea_popescu: bitbet beats the sands, you read it here first.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22131 @ 0.00095513 = 21.138 BTC [-] {2}
alexsanjose: one becomes a journalist bc one is bad at it
alexsanjose: hahaha
mircea_popescu: i was serious.
moiety: benkay: i hope it's a gpg email
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: If your are a shitty journalist it isn't because journalists are shit. It is because you chose Columbia over Mizzou.
alexsanjose: beats the sands for higher average bet u mean
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12267 @ 0.00095186 = 11.6765 BTC [-]
alexsanjose: and how many employees do u have on just the bitbet end?
mircea_popescu: that wasn't ever disclosed
mircea_popescu: but definitely fewer than the sands.
alexsanjose: and it wont be disclosed i take it
mircea_popescu: bitcoin betting. it really is killing the margins for irl betting.
mircea_popescu: well, if it ever is disclosed, you'll be the first to know.
mircea_popescu: especially if you idle in here.
alexsanjose: take that, AP
TestingUnoDosTre: do you have an rss feed of total bets
benkay: ho a leak promise from mp
TestingUnoDosTre: would be fun to bet on how many btc will be bet on bitbet
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: I dun have an official account, but at least 3. mircea_popescu kakobrekla and the secret mod or mods
mircea_popescu: TestingUnoDosTre don't you start too
alexsanjose: and what about location?
ThickAsThieves: i cant pass up an opportunity to push Schrodinger's BitBet, thx testing124
TestingUnoDosTre: how many bets does a bitbet bet if a bit bet could bet good?
mircea_popescu: still waiting for locations to submit their offers.
TestingUnoDosTre: im gonna be the bookie, owning up the bitbet bitbet
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 2 @ 0.14 = 0.28 BTC
mircea_popescu: TestingUnoDosTre wouldja consider getting a better nick ?
TestingUnoDosTre: it makes me sound spanish
TestingUnoDosTre: ill think of one over the next couple few weeks
mircea_popescu: well... panish, at any rate.
alexsanjose: like the undisclosed number of humans that work for bitbet and the servers
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: What beat do you usually cover?
asciilifeform: why do people always ask 'how many warm bodies' ??
alexsanjose: i cover economics and markets if i cant help it in mexico
asciilifeform: to whom does this matter.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: I severely doubt a count of server personel will happen. Hasn't happened for MPEx. Hasn't happened for S.NSA
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose it's like this. the way locations normally works is that it doesn't need people, but people need it. and so people make offers to location.
mircea_popescu: bitbet however needs a location like i need a pair of horns. location however does need bitbet, and business generally.
mircea_popescu: so... waiting for location to get its head out of its ass, realise that the tables have turned and start making offers.
alexsanjose: i get that cyber shizel makes some of these considerations less relevant
BingoBoingo has a personal point of shame
alexsanjose: however
BingoBoingo is too new to knwo evoorhes IRC nick
alexsanjose: we reporters, we like locations
mircea_popescu: ;;seen evoorhees
gribble: evoorhees was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 39 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 32 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <evoorhees> I need to go for now, on later
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: And that is how I scooped the whole press on the OpenBSD story
alexsanjose: u should come over to the dark side BingoBoingo
alexsanjose: Boingo is a decent juice maker down here incidentally
alexsanjose: i recommend the guayaba
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Have you read my blog yet?
mircea_popescu: the lyf and times of the luddite journalist. 1. find webchat. 2. 500 pages of 500 words each avalanche. 3. profit ? 4. burial.
mircea_popescu: !up Neil
assbot: Voicing Neil for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: I might happily have an opinon column for the right price, if you buy out my mystery sponsor's share
BingoBoingo offers a hit, it isn;t mircea_popescu
BingoBoingo: that was butchered...
TestingUnoDosTre: offers a hit? what drug
mircea_popescu: dude did he just threaten to off me ?
alexsanjose: <+mircea_popescu> can u at least confirm u re licensed in CR?
BingoBoingo: I'll have to do the BAC after this cigarette again
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose im sorry, licensed to what ?
alexsanjose: to ill
alexsanjose: i mean to operate
mircea_popescu: to operate what ?!
TestingUnoDosTre: oooh BingoBoingo, whats your high score?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I meant hint... Fuck...
ThickAsThieves: on teeth
alexsanjose: an online gambling site
mircea_popescu: how is this relevant ?
mircea_popescu: are you licensed to operate an online nuclear powerplant ?
alexsanjose: because i can t really write the story unless i can tie it somehow to the region i cover
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: Hisghest BAC I've hit on the overstock.com breathalizer is 0.67 while lucid
TestingUnoDosTre: whaaaaaat
alexsanjose: its somewhat silly
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Isn't world news a thing?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo apparently not for reuters.
alexsanjose: i tried to pitch it as a world news thing
BingoBoingo: Fucking Columbia grads
BingoBoingo: Srs should have gone to MIZ ZOU
BingoBoingo: Not only better school, better college town
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose you can tell your editor i said he's doing himself way more favours running stories about me than the reverse.
BingoBoingo: Only had a gun pointed at me twice there
alexsanjose: look, u have important privacy concerns which i can only begin to imagine.
TestingUnoDosTre: now what was this talk about writing a program that can parse through bets?
asciilifeform: where is MIZ ZOU? bagdad? kandahar?
TestingUnoDosTre: missouri state
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Columbia Missouri
mircea_popescu: on the grounds that while i matter, reuters does not.
mircea_popescu: scaling issues.
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: Not Missouri state
alexsanjose: but i also have to talk to a company that has something there -- a call center, a server, a license
TestingUnoDosTre: the state of missouri
alexsanjose: ergo i ask if u are said comapny
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: That isn't how university names work
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose it might have escaped your notice, but bitbet is not a company, it's a mpex corporation.
alexsanjose: i agree w u
alexsanjose: it s global story
TestingUnoDosTre: I know, was just trying to backtrack on my earlier fuckup
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5217657 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Class it as a UK story. They operate in the UTC +-0 time zone
mircea_popescu: i thought she was in mexico.
BingoBoingo: details
alexsanjose: if only i could write "dateline cyberspace"
alexsanjose: or "dateline the world"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 105 @ 0.00481852 = 0.5059 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: what's to keep you ?
BingoBoingo: I thought dateline was a disney thing.
ThickAsThieves: bitbet has no more relevance to Mexico than any other country
alexsanjose: but are u based in the UK then?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i dare not think they perhaps haven't reported on heartbleed yet, because well...
mircea_popescu: we forgot to register a mexico domain for it.
ThickAsThieves: maybe the relevance is competition to mexican casinos or something
mircea_popescu: either forgot or didn't care.
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose yeah, let's see here.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: They resolve bets on Greenwich time
mircea_popescu: tell Gordon Burr i said he's a poopyhead.
TestingUnoDosTre: speaking of which, can we get a clock on the website?
asciilifeform: heatbleed - not diffused, has a loving motherland, 26km from where i sit.
mircea_popescu: then he'll get pissed off, and you've got your story.
TestingUnoDosTre: i might even chip in for that
mircea_popescu: TestingUnoDosTre on which website ?!
mircea_popescu: dude srsly.
ThickAsThieves: Gordo Burro
TestingUnoDosTre: making me open up another whole tab
mircea_popescu: you got no wrists ?
mircea_popescu: cut them off ?
TestingUnoDosTre: what do you mean
TestingUnoDosTre: I have plent of wrists
mircea_popescu: so open a clock tab on your wrist!
TestingUnoDosTre: gotta get a watch
BingoBoingo: BAC 3.12
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo are you like trying to become tucker max or something ?
mod6: haha, im gonna set my watch to 0 GMT
moiety: GWT?!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not at all.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: This isn't even near the usual buzz I have here
alexsanjose: so zero ties to CR
mircea_popescu: btw, if anyone knows of that schmuck since his days of derping about being amusing,
mircea_popescu: you'll never guess what he's doing these days.
moiety: i have a browser bar addon with all my clocks running along it
ThickAsThieves: !up alexsanjose
assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
alexsanjose: but what did u do there for 3 years?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Didn't he pay the Kentucky Basketball coach to be his bitch for lunch and a game?
ThickAsThieves: enjoy the local flora is my guess
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose this was a while back, i was still retired back then. mostly i did girls
BingoBoingo: !up benkay
assbot: Voicing benkay for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i musta missed that.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you know, fauna is not flora.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It was last week's story. No OpenBSD guns of liberty or anything like that.
ThickAsThieves: tell that to Georgia O'Keeffe
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo anyway, dude's now.... an investment adviser.
BingoBoingo: O'Really? I thought he was a Lohan.
moiety: TestingUnoDosTre: https://foxclocks.org/ you can totally customise them however you like
mircea_popescu: he has like... opinions and shit. about like, laws. and is excited. about like... companies. well, "companies".
mircea_popescu: tucker fucking max.
BingoBoingo: It is all nothing compared to my running the largest Altcoin denominated trading fund.
kakobrekla: also the first and best
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.032 = 0.128 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Eh, it would totally die if someone used 20 BTC to set a new baseline for ATC at 300 satoshis per
asciilifeform: you can always tell who can't do arithmetic by where walls of ornate clocks with ~3 zones hang. e.g. u.s. army briefing rooms.
alexsanjose: so some industry stat questions -- a lotta stories say half of bitcoin transactions are online gambling related --
alexsanjose: u have a source on that?
alexsanjose: i get that the ledger is countable
alexsanjose: but who counted it
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose prolly satoshidice, a mpex corp, meanwhile retired.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Most of that data is last year's when SatoshiDice was a thing
mircea_popescu: or if not,
assbot: Just-Dice stat: 16289 BTC profit, 35.4k BTC invested, 1083.43 mio bets, 5.19 mio BTC wagered
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: That number hasn't been reliable since about July
alexsanjose: ugh. any thots on getting an updated figure?
BingoBoingo: Not really, not without a soldering iron and patience
alexsanjose: if only i d gone to Mizzou
alexsanjose: another one -- what about an estimate on the number of online gambling operations in bitcoin
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose an updaed figure of what ?
alexsanjose: of the percent of bitcoin transactions that are for gambling
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Best part of Mizzou. I had a grad assistanship with the Pharmacy School through UMKC.
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose other than jd and bitbet there's not that many worth the mention.
ThickAsThieves: i imagince sdice still gets some volume, no?
assbot: Just-Dice stat: 16289 BTC profit, 35.4k BTC invested, 1083.44 mio bets, 5.19 mio BTC wagered
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Not so much anymore
ThickAsThieves: www.just-dice.com
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: JD pretty much killed SD
ThickAsThieves: it's ok to speak normals to the lady guys, geez
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: There are a number of questionable line betting operations.
alexsanjose: coinbet? cloudbet strkesapphire seals w clubs
alexsanjose: seems like there are tons
ThickAsThieves: coinroll.it
ThickAsThieves: there are a fair quantity of sites, but probly not much volume
mircea_popescu: didn't seals die an ignoble death after it lost its db or something ?
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: I play with cloudbet. I fear it might face the same bet as its line betting predecessors in the space.
ThickAsThieves: seals seems like something thatll never die
asciilifeform: seals - clubbed.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Sealswith Clubs used to rock, then they got hacked and everyone fled
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose you're roughly in the position of someone asking how many websites there are on the internet. it's by and large a meaningless measure of nothing in particular.
ThickAsThieves: it's where nerds that are too nerdy for the smart nerds play
alexsanjose: i understand but these are the things editors yearn for
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: You been to seals recently, it is just bots and sad
ThickAsThieves: i never tried it
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose alright, there's 128 btc gambling websites.
alexsanjose: which brings me to my next unknowable question -- the value of the industry
ThickAsThieves: i have bias against their css
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: It was pretty awesome this time last year.
alexsanjose: who 128?
ThickAsThieves: what can i say...
alexsanjose: why 128?
mircea_popescu: cause i say so.
benkay: moiety: simply telling someone's boss that i was going to reject the man's code and would the following advice be welcome?
benkay: (ask a stupid question, alexsanjose, get a stupid answer)
mircea_popescu: it;'s not that stupid even.
alexsanjose: what happened to the spoon feeding :)
alexsanjose: it s beautiful and round
mircea_popescu looks under assbot's skirts.
mircea_popescu: where the hell does it store all the voice.
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: If you want to know what sealswithclubspoker was like over the last year I have a GPG key with email address on my blog.
alexsanjose: thank u
ThickAsThieves: assbot is all ass, no skirt
mircea_popescu: http://sirf-online.org/2014/04/17/mdbx-follow-up/ << whas this in here ? it's pretty fucking... bitcoinesque.
BingoBoingo: Also if you want to know about traditional sports betting books in BTC I have lots of details on that
alexsanjose: i need some in Costa RIca to talk to me
alexsanjose: in order to justify doing this story
alexsanjose: i know it s silly
alexsanjose: anyway
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Fine, I'm in southern Illinois, close enough?
alexsanjose: a question i forgot from earlier that i think i know the answer to -- mp -- u have no way of tracking where your customers are or who they are
alexsanjose: nest pas?
moiety: benkay, please tell me what response you get?
ThickAsThieves: i think whats his name is in costa rica
ThickAsThieves: the sharepoint guy
benkay: another good question would be "which are the important ones and why do they matter?"
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose not more than you do at any rate.
alexsanjose: do you have a sense of where many are set up
BingoBoingo: Crimea
benkay: moiety: "I don’t think you could make the suggestions friendly enough not to make it seem like a big middle finger.:
alexsanjose: (i get your prior point abt locations being interchangeable)
kakobrekla: most of them come from the internets
benkay: this for the record is why american management sucks.
benkay: no stones to tell people to redo their work
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> most of them come from the internets <<
alexsanjose: but i m wondering if the bitcoin gambling sites flock to the same plays where vanilla online gambling was big
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1792229/plain/)
benkay: no expectation that people can take criticism
alexsanjose: i ve heard of the internets. i think al gore made them
alexsanjose: after 2009
BingoBoingo: The thing is this year this is an English language story. In five years this will eaither be a Spanish or Chinese language story.
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose i doubt anything useful can be said on the topic of whether bitcoin gambling geographically concentrates like casino gambling.
ThickAsThieves: furuknap, i think he's in CR
alexsanjose: u familiar with UIGEA etc?
TestingUnoDosTre: i've got a question
ThickAsThieves: here's is blog if you wanna try to reach him http://cryptocoinblog.com/about/
alexsanjose: who s furuknap
TestingUnoDosTre: superbowl coinflip - wtf happene there?
ThickAsThieves: a nobody really
mircea_popescu: Nov 29 04:07:23 <firstblockchain>Trying to find people with rentable / purchasable land in Costa Rica who are bitcoin friendly. Want to set up a few solar powered yurts, wire up with some good internet, plant some tubers and coffee and operate from there. Going to be a pain to ship my roaster there from indonesia though... <<< this guy too.
ThickAsThieves: but he's into bitcoin, in CR
moiety: benkay: why does he need friendly if he wants his business to work?
ThickAsThieves: just in case you REALLY need a connection
ThickAsThieves: assuming he's still in CR...
moiety is far too nosy benkay sorry
assbot: Voicing Neil for 30 minutes.
alexsanjose: thanks
alexsanjose: so UIGEA
alexsanjose: the 2006 us gambling law -- u familiar?
mircea_popescu: what about it ?
alexsanjose: do you bitcoin gamlbing will be found by courts to run afoul of it?
TestingUnoDosTre: the us anti gambling law *
BingoBoingo: Does the law touch consumers?
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose the us is welcome to try.
mircea_popescu: you familiar with the sec's attempt ?
alexsanjose: which bit
BingoBoingo: ;;google site:trilema.com sec
gribble: SEC Complaint - Securities and Exchange Commission: <http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/comp-pr2013-132.pdf>; Interacting with fiat institution, a guide pe Trilema - Un blog de ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institution-a-guide/>; The reasons why Bitcoin securities can't be regulated by the SEC pe ...: <http://trilema.com/2012/the-reasons-why- (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: Second link
alexsanjose: oh the mpex - satoshi thing
BingoBoingo: Yeah, more an evoorhes thing apparently is the cover
BingoBoingo: Still, there are Marines in Costana
mircea_popescu: the point being, everyone's welcome to imagine they matter.
BingoBoingo: Everyone is equally welcome to give a cock a taste provided a lack of mouth sores
alexsanjose: well if u could win on this argument -- It is our considered opinion that Bitcoin does not constitute either “Money” as discussed in the second reference nor does a purchase of a Bitcoin denominated virtual security such as offered on MPEx constitute “the placing of capital or laying out of money” as discussed in the first reference.
alexsanjose: then u d be ok prolly on UIGEA
alexsanjose: which penalizes a funds transfer, etc
mircea_popescu: you're not in any sense qualified to discuss matters of law, are you ?
mircea_popescu: !up Lee-
assbot: Voicing Lee- for 30 minutes.
alexsanjose: i dont have a law degree. i did cover the CFTC for a while
mircea_popescu: so then that'd be it for this line.
alexsanjose: do u see bitcoin gambling spreading? despite the regulatory push in the US and people s fears about volatility etc?
TestingUnoDosTre: speaking of which, that oil futures bet is really delicious looking. too pansy to bet on a side though :(
alexsanjose: i m almost done, apols for having taken up so much of your time
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: Grow some balls?
TestingUnoDosTre: much more comfortable betting on diff
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose i don't imagine the usg is any sort of actor in this discussion.
mircea_popescu: other than that, quite impossible to call trends. maybe it's growing.
mircea_popescu: maybe it's shrinking.
mircea_popescu: volatility seems neutral.
ozbot: Scotty Doesn't Know - YouTube
ThickAsThieves: itd probably grow in some proportion to bitcoin's growth
mircea_popescu: people who gamble wouldn't conceivably be much deterredf by the risk that their payoff is multiplied or divided randomly.
mircea_popescu: but this is all speculation, and not too well grounded.
TestingUnoDosTre: randomly?
ThickAsThieves: i agree though ive seen recent articles disagreeing with that mp
ThickAsThieves: like bitcoin gambling is somehow doomed due to its volatility
BingoBoingo: This is exactly the difference between NeoBBQ and actual returns
BingoBoingo: !up alexsanjose
assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: one question lingers. did you lie earlier when you claimed you can't do the article unless it's somehow related to... costa rica (?!) ? one'd have expected your interest to die there, were that factual.
alexsanjose: i didnt lie
BingoBoingo: !up Luke-Jr
assbot: Voicing Luke-Jr for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i dunno what sense that makes. so you play blackjack in tokens, and they have a random value each day. this deters you from playing blackjack ?
ThickAsThieves: she's a journalist, she's good at making shit up by now
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: So bets of bitco.in
BingoBoingo: !up benkay
assbot: Voicing benkay for 30 minutes.
alexsanjose: if it s happening there, i need to bring in that element
alexsanjose: but as u note its a global phenomenon
alexsanjose: which makes all this super relevant
alexsanjose: do u think that online bitcoin gambling has benefitted from the troubles regular online gambling outfits have faced -with paymnet systems since UIGEA?
mircea_popescu: wasnt that a law in 2006 ?
BingoBoingo: alexsanjose: Whatever local paper it is quarentined to will piss off the 95% of bettors not there
mircea_popescu: well... bitcoin didn't exist in 2006. bitcoin gambling even less.
mircea_popescu: so how'd it benefit
alexsanjose: because after 2006, and especially ater 2011 when the doj shut down the three major online poker establishments that us plays could illegally access
alexsanjose: some of outfits continued to operate
BingoBoingo: poker sucks
alexsanjose: but it became increaseingly harder to process payments
TestingUnoDosTre: poker is great
BingoBoingo: Poker is a lowest common denominator of gambling
alexsanjose: because the 2006 law makes it illegal to accept payments associated iwth "unlawful: online gambling
mircea_popescu: but bitbet is not doing poker.
alexsanjose: but it s not just poker
mircea_popescu: and the one poker site which was doing great in 2011 and 2012 meanwhile died.
alexsanjose: so by penalizing the payment process, they brought banks into it
TestingUnoDosTre: i think theres still one ... bodog?
TestingUnoDosTre: just heard of a friend in the us depositing the other day
alexsanjose: there are plenty
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: WTF is Bodog
TestingUnoDosTre: ;;ud bodog
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bodog | Damn, I put a grand on the Lakers last night at BoDog, & the pistons smoked em! by Maddog June 26, 2004. 45 23. Mugs & shirts Buy “Bodog” mugs & shirts ...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: Bodog
mircea_popescu: it may not be "just poker", but the case of poker seems to go exactly against the theory it benefited.
alexsanjose: but they had to resort to really sketchy stuff to get money fto and from clients
TestingUnoDosTre: bodog is a poker website
alexsanjose: how so
BingoBoingo: What is "Really sketchy"
mircea_popescu: because the bitcoin poker site was doing great in 2011, and is dead now.
benkay: got robbed, right?
alexsanjose: banks would have to misclassifry transactions
mircea_popescu: this is not an opposite trend of the fiat poker sites
alexsanjose: saying that it was to buy golf balls
benkay: trust is important when bitcoins are involved.
alexsanjose: and not to bet
alexsanjose: or a runner ould show up at your house for the cash
BingoBoingo: The cashier had to put my vodka in a paper bag. Was that sketcy because it was concealed?
mircea_popescu: since when do banks classify transactions saying it;'s to x or to y ?
alexsanjose: these are anecdotes from people in the industry anyway
BingoBoingo: !down alexsanjose
mircea_popescu: wtf weird country is that. the merchant/customer specify wtf the transaction is
BingoBoingo: !up alexsanjose
assbot: Voicing alexsanjose for 30 minutes.
alexsanjose: but as soon as the bank does that, they can go after you for fraud, money laundering,e tc in addition to violating UIGEA]
TestingUnoDosTre: maybe if you won lke $100k
alexsanjose: so the question is whether bitcoin -- which is outside of traditionally banking -- allows bettors and sites to sidestep all the regulatory hassle (in addition to lowering costs, etc_)
BingoBoingo: Indeterminate
mircea_popescu: alexsanjose it would seem there's no particular relation.
TestingUnoDosTre: but if you tried to make a connection, if you REALLY stretched
mircea_popescu: or in the words of bogart, the fixations of some people in the us don't amount to a hill of beans in this large btc world.
BingoBoingo: Even in the US I have yet to se a bank car with lites, sirens, and surly black cops played by Sam Jackson
alexsanjose: so u really see it as a separate phenomenon
alexsanjose: independent of this whole us gambling regulatory backstory
BingoBoingo: Per FINRA, the Federal Reserve, and Reality.
mircea_popescu: i don't imagine that a)the us legislative process has much impact on us reality ; b) us reality has much impact on online reality ; c) btc has much to do with online gambling
mircea_popescu: so there's layers.
alexsanjose: that was very clear
alexsanjose: thank u
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: On point B the us has an impact in that it makes tor suck
mircea_popescu: so tor is integral to gambling ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No more than Bitcoin
BingoBoingo: Or Freenode
mircea_popescu: anyway, imo it was teh yurpeans that made tor suck
mircea_popescu: i mean look at the shills/devs/etc
TestingUnoDosTre: whats so bad about it?
alexsanjose: well thank u guys
alexsanjose: illuminating
alexsanjose: enchanting even
TestingUnoDosTre: the bitcoin illuminati!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27581 @ 0.00095632 = 26.3763 BTC [+]
TestingUnoDosTre: strikes again
BingoBoingo: Well, tor always sucked, there was actually a not horrible Cracked article on the subject
BingoBoingo: BAC update: .354
TestingUnoDosTre: before you said 3.23
TestingUnoDosTre: was really scared
alexsanjose: if you come across in humans in Central America who have bitcoin gambling operations and they want to talk to a reporter, tell them i dont bite alexandra.alper@thomsonreuters.com
mike_c: BingoBoingo: breathalyzer while drinking is cheating. you need blood samples!
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: Must have been confusion of units
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0315 = 0.126 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Yeah, but are YOU really going to jump me with a needle right now?
TestingUnoDosTre: i thought it underestimates while drinkiing
mircea_popescu: it does.
BingoBoingo: Sometimes approximation is a necessary tool
BingoBoingo: Also this is Overstock.com, they barely replaced Roger Ver
TestingUnoDosTre: if you're going for your all time high score, doesn't seem like cheating to me
BingoBoingo: Nah, this isn't a high score night. This is just cultivating a good hangover to think through tomorrow.
TestingUnoDosTre: can you estimate how much youve had to get to .3++?\
TestingUnoDosTre: I've always been worried about the .08 rule in america
BingoBoingo: !up Neil
assbot: Voicing Neil for 30 minutes.
mike_c: mircea_popescu: hah, sorry my departure caused a commotion. great weekend though! i had a blast.
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: I can look at the bottle or bottles.
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: The .08 rule is why I keep a tremendous distance between driving and drinking.
TestingUnoDosTre: I just fill the distance with smoke
mircea_popescu: mike_c tbh i half figured you moved for a day of hooker privacy.
BingoBoingo: Well, I smoke menthol cigarettes like a nigger so maybe that is another false positive that might aggrevate this piece of shit.
joecool: my coworker switched to ecig, smokes thug juice
joecool: s/smokes/vapes/
mircea_popescu: and with that... nighty all!
TestingUnoDosTre: by the way, I'm really disappointed how bitbet posts latest bets to the front page. I sniped this coinlab bet from a few months , and someone just followed me
joecool: BingoBoingo: prob better for you
BingoBoingo: joecool: For some definitions of better.
joecool: cheaper + less cancer + smells better
TestingUnoDosTre: just go over to cannabis, you will smoke like one every ten
BingoBoingo: joecool: Menthols cost just as much as regular cigs
joecool: sure, i was talking about vaping though
TestingUnoDosTre: even newports?
TestingUnoDosTre: i stricly smoke spliffs
TestingUnoDosTre: this is my profession
joecool: i don't smoke
TestingUnoDosTre: vaporise?
BingoBoingo: Eh, I dun want some damn weed ruining my nice ETOH buzz
TestingUnoDosTre: ruining? they pair like a wine to a cheese
joecool: me? i tried ecig vaping shortly, never got huge into it, but gave my kit to coworker to quit cigarette smoking and he switched to that
joecool: loves it now, got the really fancy units
artifexd: ThickAsThieves: Mailpile is an opensource web mail app that does makes pgp encryption easier. To be really useful though, it should be run on your own server.
TestingUnoDosTre: the first thing I truly toked was vaporised cannabis
TestingUnoDosTre: then i slowly drifted over to the cigarretes, as I began to mix the two
joecool: i've had cannabis a few times, i can't really have it though, drops my blood pressure and i either faint or sleep for over 12 hours
joecool: just not for me
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: Extremes of ETOH and marijuana intoxication can be great, but apart, never together at the extremes
TestingUnoDosTre: intuiging
TestingUnoDosTre: I never said extremes
joecool: someone had me try vaping it once and i slept for almost 18 hours
joecool: nobody could wake me up
joecool: not my idea of fun, at best a sleep aid
TestingUnoDosTre: have you ever been prescribed pain medications?
joecool: i had a kidney stone in high school
joecool: when i was on oxycodone i barely registered a pulse
TestingUnoDosTre: yah, that stuff puts me to sleep
joecool: they had to manually check me in hospital as most of the auto cuffs couldn't pick me up
TestingUnoDosTre: thats scary
joecool: bp was like 90/40
BingoBoingo: I dun like opiates, they make me itch. You ever wake up having a tooth cut in half, and then for several days take pain pills that make you rash more and more?
BingoBoingo: Damn that's low
joecool: i use aspirin when i need pain killer, works well
BingoBoingo: I'm partial to naproxen
TestingUnoDosTre: I rarely use anything of that sort
TestingUnoDosTre: i think acetamenophin was the last for me
TestingUnoDosTre: !up benkay
assbot: Voicing benkay for 30 minutes.
joecool: i actually picked up the ecig vaping for a short while cause i was experimenting with small amounts of nicotine for memory and to keep my bp from crashing
TestingUnoDosTre: how do you gage memory recall?
joecool: TestingUnoDosTre: keep a working journal
joecool: i used to test myself but i found just logging observations worked better
TestingUnoDosTre: but how does that test recall
TestingUnoDosTre: i've heard of nicotine helping the matter, but am wondering how you personally know if your memory is better
TestingUnoDosTre: for instance, have you ever tried memory methods, etc
joecool: memory methods? you mean like mnemonics?
TestingUnoDosTre: yes, method of loci, etc
artifexd: Nicotine, when separated from all the crap in cigarettes is actually a pretty powerful performance enhancing drug.
joecool: TestingUnoDosTre: never tried that, reading about it right now
BingoBoingo: And still somehow more habit forming
TestingUnoDosTre: its how people began to remember things
joecool: actually we're not entirely sure at the moment how habit forming nicotine is by itself
TestingUnoDosTre: only really read about it in the last year or so, my brothers recommend me a book that has other methods in it as well
joecool: TestingUnoDosTre: my short term memory is bad, so one would assume remembering lists and tasks would be the best way to test oneself (using a memory game or something)
joecool: but i'm looking for something a little more subjective, trying to see if i can stay focused throughout the entire day and still track tasks
TestingUnoDosTre: there's a book called "the memory method" i think it's by harry loraine or something
TestingUnoDosTre: harry L-------
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 38 @ 0.03100763 = 1.1783 BTC [-] {3}
joecool: at the moment the best combo i've found that's very safe is a decent amount of caffeine and some theanine
TestingUnoDosTre: focus is different to me
TestingUnoDosTre: like a factory worker can be "focused" for 8 hours a day
BingoBoingo: I'll politely decline from revealing my secret sauce
TestingUnoDosTre: but when you tackle something larger, like project, it gets WAY different
joecool: BingoBoingo: i'm guessing sims
joecool: *stims
BingoBoingo: Nah, not really
artifexd: Regarding the benefits of nicotine: http://examine.com/supplements/Nicotine/
BingoBoingo: Not for classical definitions of such anyways
joecool: BingoBoingo: i consider moda a stim if that's that you're talking about
artifexd: modafinil
BingoBoingo: You are looking at the wrong class and even the wrong MOA
TestingUnoDosTre: hahaha "modanifil is wall streets favorite drug" on google top returns for modanafil
TestingUnoDosTre: wall streets drug of choice*
BingoBoingo: Action is on much lower molecular weight things than catecholemines
artifexd: TestingUnoDosTre: For any drug/supplement information, you can't get any better than examine.com. Here is modafinil's page: http://examine.com/supplements/Modafinil/
BingoBoingo: I dunno that Wall street is really an endorsement
BingoBoingo: artifexd: examine.com sucks compared to http://crazymeds.us
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