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Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


artifexd: I am unfamiliar with crazymeds.us. I shall investigate it.
joecool: i found out about it in high school, was considering asking doctor about it, ultimately decided to avoid because of it's effects on histamine (do you like rashes?)
joecool: ultimately most of my problems were solved by a better diet
BingoBoingo: artifexd: It is actually a decent reference work. Was endorsed by actual faculty to my pharm students
artifexd: Seems limited in what it covers
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Limited vs. Targeted is a difficult distinction
joecool: anyways, gotta sleep, headin back to freedomland tomorrow
artifexd: True. examine.com doesn't have adderall or prozac.
cazalla: nutmeg and banana skins, thank me later
artifexd: examine.com for supplements. crazymeds.us for medicines.
BingoBoingo: ;;google site:examine.com lamotrigine
gribble: Inositol - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects ...: <http://examine.com/supplements/Inositol/>; Agmatine - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects ...: <http://examine.com/supplements/Agmatine/>; Vinpocetine - Scientific Review on Usage, Dosage, Side Effects ...: <http://examine.com/supplements/Vinpocetine/>
BingoBoingo: Supplements are just medicines that fail
artifexd: That is simply not true
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9469 @ 0.00095849 = 9.0759 BTC [+]
artifexd: Creatine is a supplement. It is quite successful at what it does.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.031 = 0.279 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: Creatine as a supplement is rate limited though to ineffectiveness in many processes
artifexd: Ineffectiveness in what? Via what processes?
cazalla: didn't they ban that due to kids going on creatine rages
artifexd: lol
artifexd: no
cazalla: misc says it's a steroid
artifexd: http://examine.com/faq/is-creatine-a-steroid.html
ozbot: Is creatine a steroid? | Examine.com FAQ
cazalla: i'm joking artifexd, creatine rage is an old joke from buildingbuiding.com forums
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Mostly the liver and limits on precessing rooted in ancient human metabolism.
BingoBoingo: Excess creatine is largely handled by the body's workings as a disease state.
BingoBoingo: Choline... That on the other hand the body treats in excess as a blessing because you made a snapping turtle's nest your bitch
artifexd: So your saying that consuming 1kg of creatine won't provide 100 times the benefit of consuming 10g? Ok. I'll buy that. But that doesn't make taking 10g ineffective.
cazalla: I had a GP tell me to stop using it after bloodwork showed high levels of creatinine in bloodwork, told me to stop lifting as well, didn't go back to that doctor
artifexd: For the record, I'm not a creatine disciple. It is just an example.
BingoBoingo: Well, excess is relative to a point. The body is actually good at generating its own creatine, even while relatively malnourished in a few different ways
BingoBoingo: The Japs taught us that in the 1940's
cazalla: from memory, only benefit from creatine was that i held more water which made me appear bigger
BingoBoingo: That is an effect of excess creatine
BingoBoingo: Mostly safe excess, but still
BingoBoingo: !up benkay
assbot: Voicing benkay for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: Is anyone online now familiar with Amphoterrible B?
benkay: thanks for the continuing voice y'all
benkay: i am now officially curious how long i can go without auth and upping
BingoBoingo: benkay: Welcome
benkay: (as to how long...)
BingoBoingo: benkay Not too long if you don't say the two magic assets words.
BingoBoingo: Fuck it the three words nao
benkay: i give up what are you on about
BingoBoingo: benkay: Two words: cunt and nigger, third word is kike
artifexd: Holy crap. It is taking forever to get through today's logs. It looks like today is trying to make up for a quiet weekend.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.0009513 = 24.9241 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: artifexd cazalla: Since you seem most interested dangerous excesses of creatine resemble the effects of amphteracin B
BingoBoingo: !up Hghh
assbot: Voicing Hghh for 30 minutes.
artifexd: And dangerous exesses of water resemble death.
BingoBoingo: It shreds the most useful and beutiful of the kidney's filtering membranes
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Cause death.
BingoBoingo: Excess water actually on its own can cause death
cazalla: i don't think my levels were too excessive, from memory they were in the hundreds, GP said it would be a concern if it were in the thousands, average being double digits or something, this is a decade ago, i've long ago become lazy and chubby as a result
artifexd: The point being that saying something is dangerous simply because too much of it is dangerous is incorrect at best and deceitful at worst.
BingoBoingo: Of course, now we get to learning.
artifexd: Or were you not saying creatine is dangerous and I just misinterpreted?
BingoBoingo: It isn't simply that too much is dangerous. It is HOW too much is dangerous.
cazalla: oh i wouldn't know one way or the other, i was just a sucker for the marketing
BingoBoingo: Well, this is how learning happens, by knowing how both the excess an insufficiancy are dangerous and spotting a useful mean.
BingoBoingo: I think I've covered excess creatine shreds simple yet beautiful membranes in the kidneys, what does a lack of such cause?
artifexd: Stupidity?
artifexd: Crude way to say it, but basically brain damage. Right?
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Stop going up layers of abstraction and try going down. Think things with less mass than creatine?
BingoBoingo: Fuck, is drunk BingoBoingo teaches physiology going to have to be a thing?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13831 @ 0.00095177 = 13.1639 BTC [+]
artifexd: Medicine/biology are far from my strong points. Even if I got the words right, I likely wouldn't understand them.
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Sodium, Potasium, Calcium. Why did I present them in THAT order?
artifexd: My first interpretation is Salt and Bones.
BingoBoingo: So, any eastern bloc people up? I gots a question.
BingoBoingo: Let us spz I have "mice" in my garage. Which SKS variant would require the least fussing as I eliminate the "mice".... Or should I just cheap it out on a Mosin?
artifexd: Calcium is an electrolyte?
artifexd: Huh
BingoBoingo: artifexd: One of the three most important ones. I mean you like self locomotion right?
artifexd: It beats being carted around in a shopping cart.
BingoBoingo: Sure.
artifexd: I always thought of calcium as "that of which bones are made", not as "that which promotes the making of bones"
BingoBoingo: Any closer to guessing my secret sauce?
BingoBoingo: Nah, bones are the most boring thing calcium does, and most of that is crbon nanotubes anyways
artifexd: I didn't know I was looking for a secret sauce. I'm still catching up on logs.
artifexd: What does your secret sauce do (at a high abstraction level)?
artifexd: Faster, better, stronger, smarter?
BingoBoingo: artifexd: It just tweeks some electrlytes.
artifexd: To what effect?
BingoBoingo: Haven't actually been on it since 2012 which was my lastest functional peak.
BingoBoingo: Legends were made that year though.
BingoBoingo: (There is an efficient substitute for it though)
artifexd: I feel similarly about modafinil. Shit made me productive for many more hours of the day than I am now.
BingoBoingo: Fuck, I've actually mentioned it by name already
artifexd: Sodium?
artifexd: lol
BingoBoingo: What have I mentioned tha tnoobs can't find reason t belong?
artifexd: That certainly narrows the search space.
BingoBoingo: I really should
BingoBoingo: Say it does
BingoBoingo: To n=1
artifexd: The antifungal stuff?
BingoBoingo: No, looking too far back
BingoBoingo: That just keeps my nutsack from being a jungle mess like Diablo-D3's
BingoBoingo: Because meat power has its limits
BingoBoingo: !up Diablo-D3
assbot: Voicing Diablo-D3 for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: How's the Rift Valley?
BingoBoingo: Nigger
BingoBoingo: !down Diablo-D3
artifexd: The only things you've named since you brought up amphteracin B are weapons and electrolytes.
BingoBoingo: artifexd: I am pretty sure I named Lamotrigine
BingoBoingo: !up benkay
assbot: Voicing benkay for 30 minutes.
artifexd: You did. To gribble.
artifexd: I shoulda caught that.
BingoBoingo: Anything to gribble is public with right commands
BingoBoingo: Much like Fairbain's knife is right into the proper ribs
artifexd: Reading the wikipedia article on Lamotrigine doesn't give me any reason to see it as useful for a normally functioning brain.
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Is that a problem with wikipedia or with a popular definition of normally functioning brain
BingoBoingo: How soon has wikipedia deleted each MP article
artifexd: Then I shall hop over to crazymeds page.
BingoBoingo: Let's narrow it. Yugo, Romanian or Russian? Which SKS handles "mice" best
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Actually even that won't offer quite a complete picture of the chemical
BingoBoingo: Or eastern bloc people is a $50 mosin enough for "mice"
artifexd: The freaky side effects are hilarious
BingoBoingo: Or terrifying
artifexd: The OCD side-effect could be useful.
BingoBoingo: Especially in Bitcoin
BingoBoingo: If you could recognize an adversary using it
BingoBoingo: as their own shtick or a schtick they milk
artifexd: I am not clinically ocd but I have ocd tendencies and I consider them one of my strengths.
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Did you make it to the drug's MOA yet?
artifexd: Shit. No. The ads made me think I had scrolled all the way down and yet I was only halfway down the page.
artifexd: MOA means "How it works", right? Mode of Affect or something?
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Dude who runs the site is totally disabled. You have to account for such compromising design decisions or worse
BingoBoingo: MOA is Method of action
BingoBoingo: The internet is not designed for you and your purposes. That is the one lesson I want to hammer into the brains of so many shitheads.
artifexd: Ok. I've read it. Didn't understand much at all.
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Well the problem is... well did you recognize the problem?
artifexd: Correction: I didn't really understand a damn thing.
artifexd: I mean, ok, it's a mood stabilizer. But you give me the impression it is so much more.
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Lithium is not a simple mood stabilizer.
BingoBoingo: Where does lamotrigine fit there
BingoBoingo: Smoke? Anchor? Turd?
moiety: entirely different
BingoBoingo: !up Luke-Jr
assbot: Voicing Luke-Jr for 30 minutes.
artifexd: BingoBoingo, you seem to have the ability to, more than anyone else I know (including mp, maybe not including my wife), make me feel like a complete idiot.
BingoBoingo: moiety: some camels need more canings than others to fing water.
moiety: lithium is far too toxic for some and just doesnt work
moiety: lamotrigine can be used in much smaller amounts for a wide variety of things as an add-in
moiety: i totally agree about camels
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Full disclosure. I have a diagnosis of Bipolar I disorder. I can't given reality justify actual meds so i love booze.
artifexd: Lamotrigine is an anti-bi-polar medicine, right? Being bi-polar means that you tend to go from one extreme mood to the other. Successfully combating that means you in a not extreme mood.
moiety: its far more than that artifexd
artifexd: Thus a more stable mood. So, I called it a mood stabilizer.
BingoBoingo: Who says I am succeeding right now?
moiety: but a mood stabiliser in itself is a thing
BingoBoingo: Mike from breaking bad?
BingoBoingo: We all know how his half measures ended...
moiety doesn't
moiety runs
moiety: and no i didnt start archer yet either
artifexd: So why the comment that lithium is not a simple mood stabilizer when I wasn't talking about lithium. Unless you meant that as to also say that lamotrigine is also not a simple mood stabilizer.
moiety: what i said is that they are both entirely different
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Because you said what I wanted to spz. You just added noise to it though.
artifexd: "Smoke? Anchor? Turd?" <- I don't understand the reference
artifexd: spz?
BingoBoingo: Spz is standard math for suppoze
artifexd: Ah
BingoBoingo: smoke is ephemeral pretend anchors without actual beds to cut into
BingoBoingo: think boats
moiety: lol i went to log into the bnf and they give you an option to check your ip. whyyyy? https://www.bnf.org/bnf/login.htm
artifexd: Anchors work even if they don't reach the bottom.
BingoBoingo: Also recognize that moiety could be more differently right than me on this subject
artifexd: So back to before you mentioned lithium. I guess that I do not recognize the problem.
moiety: its the combination game. different strokes for different folks and all that jazz
BingoBoingo: ^
BingoBoingo: Not ^^^
BingoBoingo: But ^
BingoBoingo: !up dxrt
assbot: Voicing dxrt for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: What is up dxrt
artifexd: Bottom line is that if one is bipolar, lamotrigine is awesome as long as the side effects don't kill you. If you aren't bipolar are there any benefits?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.0009549 = 5.4429 BTC [+]
artifexd: !up benkay
assbot: Voicing benkay for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Magic happens because I dunno either of those cases
artifexd: What magic? What effects did you experience?
BingoBoingo: artifexd: How does Hephaestus feel?
artifexd: Like a blacksmith?
BingoBoingo: Wrond
moiety: artifexd: depends entirely on the drug. for lithium and lamotrigine, i'd say no. but addons eg quetiapine (to stop racing thoughts) can chill people out, aid sleep and also isnt addictive
moiety: its used in place of diazepam these days
BingoBoingo: Split that. He doesn't feel a smith. He feels the black.
BingoBoingo: moiety: In 'Murica we use brand names like Seroquel (also known as benadryl on steroids)
artifexd: Hephaestus was a blacksmith to the gods. He created wonderful and amazing things that were used and appreciated by the most powerful beings in the universe. I'd say he felt pretty proud and satisfied.
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
moiety: ofc sorry ishould translate my drugs for globality
artifexd: BingoBoingo, we seem to both use english as a source for our vocabulary but you put words together in ways that completely confound me.
artifexd: "He didn't feel a smith." <- He didn't feel like a creator of stuff?
artifexd: "He feels the black" <- black as in ostracized?
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Maybe scroll up? Charles Sander Peirce (pronounced Purse) could simplify these rules
TestingUnoDosTre: moiety, how you know quetiapine isnt addictive?
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: It can be in prison
TestingUnoDosTre: cant all sleep aids be considered habit forming?
BingoBoingo: I've heard such from victims of my current legal adversary
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: Who do you think you are?
BingoBoingo: Simply>
TestingUnoDosTre: is this like a metaphysical question or what?
TestingUnoDosTre: the reason why I asked about quetiapine is because I use it, and think of it as habit forming
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39902 @ 0.00095402 = 38.0673 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: TestingUnoDosTre: it's not by chemical nature. people can believe they are addicted to it, but it is not in the physical dependancy sense like benzodiazapines are
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: Actual metaphysics is still physics
moiety: its also a mood lifter so it gets used for people with depression that have problems sleeping (the racing thought thing)
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: Slightly different doses of these drugs have such different effects
BingoBoingo: Except ETOH, I'll blow when I get in from garage
TestingUnoDosTre: ahah alright
TestingUnoDosTre: bets on over / under .37?
BingoBoingo: I guess I can't bet because I am reading
TestingUnoDosTre: which side would you bet?
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: I'd bet over
moiety: <BingoBoingo> TestingUnoDosTre: Slightly different doses of these drugs have such different effects << so true
BingoBoingo: Lemme retreive the canon reference
BingoBoingo: ;;google the most important article in psychiatry
gribble: Psychiatry articles: The New England Journal of Medicine: <http://www.nejm.org/psychiatry>; The Most Important Article On Psychiatry You Will Ever Read: <http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/07/the_most_important_article_on.html>; Psychiatry | BMJ: <http://www.bmj.com/specialties/psychiatry>
BingoBoingo: Link 2
BingoBoingo: Read it, niggas
moiety: i love that blog
moiety: my friend writes on antipsychiatry (a psychiatric nurse)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 10 @ 0.14 = 1.4 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 200 @ 0.0075 = 1.5 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: About to c=blow on the BAC. Any bets?
BingoBoingo: Who is over .4 and who is under .4?
artifexd: What are the odds?
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Scoop your shit and make them yourself
BingoBoingo: Bidding closes in 7 minute
BingoBoingo: s
artifexd: Another combination of words that confounds me. "Scoop your shit" I don't understand. "Make them yourself" I understand.
artifexd: ;;google "Scoop your shit"
gribble: Urban Dictionary: The frito shit scoop: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=The%20frito%20shit%20scoop>; Pet Poo Can Transmit Disease: Scoop Your Dog's Poop! - Yahoo ...: <http://voices.yahoo.com/pet-poo-transmit-disease-scoop-dogs-poop-12052938.html>; 10 Reasons to Scoop Your Dog's Poop - Petfinder: <http://www.petfinder.com/dogs/living-with-your-dog/scoop-dog-poop/>
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Have you ever owned a dog?
artifexd: Yes
artifexd: I currently have a 6 month old GSD.
moiety: i love GSDs
artifexd: Solid(ish) black is mine.
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Are you familiar how bitcoin works?
artifexd: Yes
BingoBoingo: Well...
artifexd: I am several orders of magnitude more familiar with bitcoin than pharmacology.
BingoBoingo: Cull your herd
artifexd: ;;google "Cull your herd"
gribble: Culling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culling>; Culling the Cow Herd - OSU Beef Team: <http://beef.osu.edu/library/cull2.html>; How to Cull Cattle: 6 Steps - wikiHow: <http://www.wikihow.com/Cull-Cattle>
TestingUnoDosTre: thats a very well written article BingoBoingo
artifexd: You know, I gave serious thought to sponsoring your blog in exchange for you mentoring me. Specifically for an agreement that you would explain stuff to me in terms that I could understand.
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: Which one is mine though
BingoBoingo: artifexd: To you I offered nothing of the sort, nigger.
TestingUnoDosTre: I didn't say you wrote it, just posted. "The most important article on psychiatry you will evar read"
artifexd: You did not.
BingoBoingo: Fuck it you are all a bunch of fucking kikes
artifexd: You were asking for funds and I thought about making an offer.
BingoBoingo: "Throw the jew down the well"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 20 @ 0.0425 = 0.85 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Maybe Milosevich pays better you nigger
artifexd: Which one?
BingoBoingo: artifexd: Slobodan, for Christ's sake (Because Jesus is in the Klan)
TestingUnoDosTre: .d
ozbot: 6.979 billion | Next Diff in 1099 blocks | Estimated Change: 15.0353% in 6d 11h 36m 14s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.00095365 = 16.975 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22526 @ 0.00095448 = 21.5006 BTC [+] {2}
wywialm: good morning everyone
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51674 @ 0.00095632 = 49.4169 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 2 @ 0.14 = 0.28 BTC
benkay: ping
wywialm: pong
benkay: ;;laserkitteh
gribble: Error: "laserkitteh" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: benkay Plz do you have rifle thoughts?
TestingUnoDosTre: this bet really interests mehttp://bitbet.us/bet/783/bitcoin-incremental-difficulty-to-increase-by-3b-or/
moiety: whats the lasercats command
moiety: i need this info
moiety promises not to abuse it
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: I barely find you better than a cow
TestingUnoDosTre: like a tasty cow thats been grazing the grass
TestingUnoDosTre: ?
moiety: udders
TestingUnoDosTre: ;;lazerkitteh
gribble: Error: "lazerkitteh" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: On a scale of 1-10 how bored might you imagine myself
moiety: no lasers but enjoy this manul http://24.media.tumblr.com/f45c10e080ae5e4e28618b13cad577b4/tumblr_n0srda45nK1si93cio5_1280.jpg
BingoBoingo: Manul always gets to cheap out... Unlike people trying to chimp out
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66184 @ 0.00095735 = 63.3613 BTC [+] {3}
TestingUnoDosTre: 6.66 out of 10, as in you have been more bored within the last 12 days BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: TestingUnoDosTre: I have bored more
cazalla: TestingUnoDosTre: don't you bet at the last moment though?
cazalla: that was only a playful dig btw :)
kanzure: asciilifeform: could you join ##hplusroadmap sometime? you have a small fanclub
benkay: ;;lasers
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52176569 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 14 @ 0.51710611 = 7.2395 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.50850003 = 2.034 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.508 = 1.016 BTC [-]
Naphex: ;;lasers
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
Naphex: morning ;]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 401 @ 0.00080882 = 0.3243 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 345 @ 0.00078587 = 0.2711 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 365 @ 0.00075199 = 0.2745 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 25 @ 0.03199 = 0.7998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 3 @ 0.14 = 0.42 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28046 @ 0.00095864 = 26.886 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17650 @ 0.00095865 = 16.9202 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33566 @ 0.00095765 = 32.1445 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.0742218 = 0.1484 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 90 @ 0.0742218 = 6.68 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 100 @ 0.031 = 3.1 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 47 @ 0.0742218 = 3.4884 BTC [-]
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: do you think there'd be any interest in rugby bets on BitBet, or is the sports betting crowd on their more US-sports-centric?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: morning
mircea_popescu: heya
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I reached out to an affiliate manager I know of, great candidate, to see what it would cost to lure him away from his current venture...no word back
mircea_popescu: no rush either.
fluffypony: yerp, I'll look around peripherally and see if there's anyone I stumble across
mircea_popescu: yeah, kinda how this works.
mircea_popescu: omfg this chan has a log !?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: ikr, I already had to wade through the alexsanjose interview and then there was all that stuff after
mircea_popescu: that's where i am.
mircea_popescu: TestingUnoDosTre: by the way, I'm really disappointed how bitbet posts latest bets to the front page. I sniped this coinlab bet from a few months , and someone just followed me << now you understand our evil.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32592 @ 0.00095436 = 31.1045 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: artifexd: To be really useful though, it should be run on your own server. << unless you actually lock the thing in a cage, it's not any safer on some server you own or on some server google owns.
mircea_popescu: TestingUnoDosTre: how do you gage memory recall? << i'll tell you how. write 10k articles on your blog, then see if you can recall "where x was" when people ask.
mircea_popescu: because of google querying it becomes very atomic.
fluffypony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7YmJZ-qVW8
ozbot: Dorian Nakamoto - Thank you Bitcoin Community - YouTube
mircea_popescu: joecool ^
fluffypony: shame, I'd hate to be that dude
bounce: but! faraday cage! tempest-proof cases! only glass for networking! solar powered! gotta be safe, no?
mircea_popescu: bounce i wouldn't trust a tempest-proof case rated as such by a us institution and/or manufactured by a us corp
bounce: tangentially, there was a... german? that came up with radar-absorbing paint. refused to sell to anyone but "the government" but those weren't interested. wonder if such paint would get you out of speeding tickets. though with ANPR that's a bit moot these days.
fluffypony: bounce: I worked on an ANPR system for a parking garage years ago (2003?) to catch tail-gaters
bounce blames fluffypony for the rise of the ANPR databases
mircea_popescu: actually, i recall a time when romanian police used plain radars on the roads, and you could get electronic invisibility kits
fluffypony: once it was working with reasonable accuracy it was quite astonishing to see how many peopel tailgated and then came back days and weeks later
fluffypony: got clamped, claimed they never tailgated and always paid parking
mircea_popescu: (they just spotted the radar and replied with a pulse, making it take its own pulse reply as random scatter and discard the measurement)
Naphex: ftp :)
mircea_popescu: ah there you are.
Naphex: police managed to get my license, a week ago
Naphex: they nailed me in a police action with a granny crossing:(
bounce: IIRC that security book linked earlier starts out with a discussion of how the military had a jolly time playing radar cat'n'mouse
mircea_popescu: yo Naphex. i wanna do the following : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-04-2014#636082
Naphex: let me read up and figure out whats going on
fluffypony: http://i.imgur.com/7H9gskb.jpg
bounce: IKINMK
mircea_popescu: lol that horse looks uniquely unconvinced
bounce: you're an expert on horsey expressions now?
fluffypony: bounce: it's a subset of Mirceanomics
fluffypony: or a practical application of it
bounce: "forget the bear, forget the bull, behold the horse"
bounce: though I suspect donkeys might still be more common in romania
fluffypony: I'm quite horseish on Bitcoin
fluffypony: BFL apologist on Reddit: "Many other manufacturers do the same. So my miner was used by BFL for 24 hours before they shipped it to me. Big deal. EDIT: And I've been happy with the BFL hardware I've used. Granted I did have to wait a long time for it - and although this is endemic in this industry, it's true that their waiting times have been perhaps somewhat worse than some of their competitors."
fluffypony: didn't know they still existed
bounce: bit of a horse trade, eh
fluffypony: an honest review of Neo&Bee stock: http://i.imgur.com/42c7pNg.jpg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5513 @ 0.00095878 = 5.2858 BTC [+] {2}
fluffypony: I like this: "Mining pools are Guild Navigators. Nodes are Sand Worms. Developers are the Fremen. reddit trols are House Harkonen. Bitcoin, of course, is Spice."
fluffypony: heh - "Satoshi = Kwisatz Haderach"
davout: asciilifeform: in case you want to add that to your collection -> http://i.imgur.com/S4IoBB8.jpg
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.5080001 = 1.524 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06575187 = 0.1315 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06574714 = 0.1972 BTC [+]
fluffypony: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=139819485423701&w=2
ozbot: 'FIPS mode is not coming back' - MARC
Apocalyptic: davout, is the guy right of MP TAT ?
davout: Apocalyptic: no, i'm the green bush on the left side of the picture
Apocalyptic: i know who you are
Naphex: So AtlasATS is partnering with NSE
HeySteve: hey fluffypony and mircea_popescu, been considering the Sybil problem
Naphex: even after that hickup, what a week ago?:)
Naphex: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304049904579518224044905190?mg=reno64-ws (paywall'd)
HeySteve: a possible solution is moderation
fluffypony: Naphex: if you click through from Google the paywall is gone
Naphex: nothing of value anyway
fluffypony: HeySteve: then you end up with a "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" problem
fluffypony: HeySteve: aka bitcointalk's "default trust" nonsense
HeySteve: if we consider trust as it's presently used as separate to what I'd call "realism"
HeySteve: evidence of the person's existence, as vetted by other "proven humans"
HeySteve: no, it's fairly decentralised, no centralised watchers necessary
HeySteve: for example. I have low trust of Karpeles, I wouldn't let him watch my wallet
HeySteve: but I know for an almost certainty that bastard exists someplace, he's no fiction
HeySteve: so to apply it, whoever proves an identity is hollow claims a portion of that identity's rep. workable? just an idea really, kicking it around
HeySteve: bbl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12409 @ 0.00095891 = 11.8991 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00095919 = 6.0909 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.0009595 = 27.3458 BTC [+]
bounce: so the SEC recognises "National Stock Exchange" (never heard of'em) as a SRO and now they're going to set rules for Atlas ATS. any rules are good rules, amirite or amirite?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56500 @ 0.00095659 = 54.0473 BTC [-]
fluffypony: I don't actually get the relationship
fluffypony: are they piggy-backing off the NSE's recognition in order to avoid needing to get approval anywhere?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 83 @ 0.00454592 = 0.3773 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06573551 = 0.3287 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: morning
ThickAsThieves: would you enjoy some broken glass for breakfast? http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg04972.html
fluffypony: morn
fluffypony: *ing
ThickAsThieves: Hearn "Although I never expected it when I first started using Bitcoin, nowadays most of my purchases with it are for food and drink. If Bitcoin could not support such purchases, I would use it much less."
ThickAsThieves: he's proposing some sort of meta double-spending for the motherland
ThickAsThieves: to prevent BitUndo
ThickAsThieves: and other meanie miners
davout: ;;rate mircea_popescu 4 met IRL twice, honored oral bet for .5 BTC
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user mircea_popescu has changed from 3 to 4.
ThickAsThieves: how you know it's a good idea? "This may seem a radical suggestion, but I think it's much less radical than
ThickAsThieves: some of the others being thrown around."
ThickAsThieves: it's the best of the worst!
ThickAsThieves: "The above approach works as long as the majority of hashpower is honest"
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: imho Bitcoin isn't designed to be used for a quick purchase of food and drink...but a system that has convenience + chargebacks can be built on top of Bitcoin quite easily (the way credit cards and PayPal are all essentially built on top of cash)
ThickAsThieves: well, bitcoin also happens to already have a system for preventing double spends
ThickAsThieves: he wants to put more system in his system
ThickAsThieves: because "honesty"
fluffypony: yes
davout: ThickAsThieves: I HERD U LIKE SYSTEMZ
fluffypony: but the current system is bad for line-at-Starbucks-and-everyone-wants-to-pay-with-BTC
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if he'd build the best way to double spend by trying to make the best way to prevent it
ThickAsThieves: these people...
fluffypony: maybe time for some FUD posts on triple spends :-P
HeySteve: double spend is going to be a hard solution to sell
davout: fluffypony: WE HERD YOU LIKE DOUBLESPENDZ
HeySteve: this reminds me of redlisting suggestion
fluffypony: davout: SO WE PUT SOME TRIPLESPENDZ IN YOUR DOUBLESPENDZ SO YOU CAN QUADRUPLESPENDZ WHILE YOU SPENDZ
ThickAsThieves: i guess he really is a NSA plant
chetty: ThickAsThieves, who?
ThickAsThieves: Mike Hearn
fluffypony: My Kern
chetty: plant might be strong, maybe bought
ThickAsThieves: Darling I don't know why I go to extremes
ThickAsThieves: Too high or too low there ain't no in-betweens
ThickAsThieves: And if I stand or I fall
ThickAsThieves: It's all or nothing at all
ThickAsThieves: Darling I don't know why I go to extremes
HeySteve: so what he proposes is honest miners submit double spends to certain pools, if those pools process them then ... what? all their blocks are rejected by the rest of the network somehow?
ThickAsThieves: they are like a backup plan or someshit
ThickAsThieves: he's basically building a BETTER BitUndo, i think/....
HeySteve: well, is it possible to accidentally a block containing a double spend?
ThickAsThieves: who knows what's possible when you add a new feature that already exists
ThickAsThieves: and when that is the same person whom, if i recall, helped the last fork occur
chetty: very statist, fix problems that don't exist thus creating problems that do
HeySteve: I thought bitundo resolved as unlikely to work as a service
ThickAsThieves: well it's more likely to work early
Naphex: so here is something interesting, http://vib.is/fraedsla/bein-utsending/ investor round table for Bitcoin in island :]
ThickAsThieves: or sumth
Naphex: don't know whats going on but one of the guys there is the lead economist at CCP/Eve Online http://vib.is/fraedsla/bein-utsending/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34400 @ 0.00095762 = 32.9421 BTC [+] {2}
Naphex: if i would've had more time i would deffinetly do a ISK/BTC exchange just for fun:D
ThickAsThieves: someone is suggesting that Hearn is trolling
HeySteve: http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg04962.html
ozbot: [Bitcoin-development] Double-spending unconfirmed transactions is a lot easier than most people real
ThickAsThieves: wouldnt that be a great way to start my day
ThickAsThieves: trolled by Hearn
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.0435 = 0.2175 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.03199 = 0.128 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.0742218 = 0.2969 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.03199 = 0.128 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0435 = 0.174 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.0742218 = 0.2969 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.03199 = 0.128 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0435 = 0.174 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.0742218 = 0.2969 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 11 @ 0.0742218 = 0.8164 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.03199 = 0.2239 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.0435 = 0.3045 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: Would it be correct to say that Reddit is broken economy in that downvoters are not identified?
Naphex: some downvotes are auto and not from downvoters anyway
Naphex: to get the hot thing going
ThickAsThieves: doesnt really change my question though
ThickAsThieves: those could still be identified as such
Naphex: i wouldn't read too much into it
Naphex: just a ranking algo, doing its job
Naphex: showing the most voted stuff up
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: what's the medium of exchange?
Naphex: http://amix.dk/blog/post/19588
ThickAsThieves: karma / points
ThickAsThieves: yesterday it was already established that a point system could work as an economy
fluffypony: yes, but how do you exchange them between individuals?
fluffypony: "upvote my post and I'll upvote yours" ?
ThickAsThieves: same as with WoT ratings
ThickAsThieves: for every post every user gets one pos coin and one neg coin
fluffypony: except with WoT the medium of exchange is Bitcoin, by the Trilema post?
ThickAsThieves: no
ThickAsThieves: in the WoT the moe is rating points
ThickAsThieves: read yesterdays log
ThickAsThieves: i was exploring whether the the WoT itself contains an economy
fluffypony: must've missed that, I will
HeySteve: rating points are only as good as their issuer
ThickAsThieves: well, theyre only as good as the person assessing the issuer decided
ThickAsThieves: (just pointing out the value is dynamic)
HeySteve: how about a system where ratings are destroyed if the issuer is collectively deemed a fake or scammer?
ThickAsThieves: "destroyed" is not always an easy thing to identify
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82100 @ 0.00096057 = 78.8628 BTC [+] {3}
ThickAsThieves: in WoT,
ThickAsThieves: you dont destroy points
ThickAsThieves: you take them back
ThickAsThieves: they always exist
Naphex: where do you get them points from?
ThickAsThieves: in WoT? For every user created, each other user received 10 pos "coins" and 10 neg "coins"
ThickAsThieves: the rules of the economy state thpse coins can only be used with that user
ThickAsThieves: and that the original owner can take them back at any time
ThickAsThieves: it's certainly not a typical or, arguably, ideal, economy
ThickAsThieves: but i think it qualifies nonetheless
HeySteve: I'm still stuck on this Sybil thing :) if you identify a puppet troupe, is there a mechanism to neutralise it beyond information-sharing?
ThickAsThieves: well is that a feature required within Mircea's theory?
ThickAsThieves: nowhere does it say you must be able to remove threat
ThickAsThieves: you must only have ability to identify one
ThickAsThieves: and punish one
HeySteve: oh, well I am talking more with a view to my project, still reading on MP's theory
ThickAsThieves: whats your project again?
ThickAsThieves: we could run it through the test
ThickAsThieves: and maybe see if you have a hole
HeySteve: essentially to integrate a reputation system within a blockchain
HeySteve: cool I'd appreciate it
ThickAsThieves: ok
ThickAsThieves: well
HeySteve: mircea_popescu suggested I share one of the key elements, which is that trust rating influences mining rewards
ThickAsThieves: first it is not yet proven that all systems require an "mircean" economy, though i suspect they do
HeySteve: this makes things a little trickier
HeySteve: decentralised system, this is?
ThickAsThieves: his theory doenst outright require decentralization either
kakobrekla: taaki didit.
HeySteve: all right, so medium of exchange, punishment gazette, public forum
ThickAsThieves: right
ThickAsThieves: what is your system's MoE?
ThickAsThieves: ratings right?
HeySteve: altcoin
ThickAsThieves: oh
ThickAsThieves: hehe
ThickAsThieves: so it has two?
HeySteve: or bitcoin if a sidechain, if that happens
ThickAsThieves: you can rate people AND get paid?
HeySteve: having two allows secure lending
ThickAsThieves: ick...
HeySteve: lending against rep
ThickAsThieves: hold up
ThickAsThieves: your goal is to make a rating system?
HeySteve: yes, you can rate and transact
ThickAsThieves: or a lending one?
ThickAsThieves: if both, handle them separately
HeySteve: the goal is to make a less scammy cryptocurrency
kakobrekla: as long as you can attach you linkedin profile to it, you should be fine!
HeySteve: oh yes, they are separate
HeySteve: oh crumbs no linkedin
kakobrekla: http://rack.0.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA0LzIyL2Q3LzA3Ljc2MWQ1LmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTg1MHg1OTA-CmUJanBn/be4d57af/5f9/07.jpg
ThickAsThieves: so by my subtheory, i'd say you need all the mircean features in both systems
HeySteve: well, public forum... yes I knocked up a quick phpBB for testing
ThickAsThieves: it seems odd to me that you are recreating the WoT, when it already exists
ThickAsThieves: wouldnt it be more productive to improve the existing one by helping with decentralization efforts or such?
kakobrekla: he just wants to make a spoonfork
HeySteve: well, that is indeed how I hope things turn out
HeySteve: here is one potential way to decentralise it
ThickAsThieves: ;;ud spork
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spork | And on the 8th day, God decided that Adam and Eve needed a multipurpose silverware item. Thus, the spork, a combination of the prongede wrath of th...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: spork
HeySteve: :)
kakobrekla: its ok for camping, but normally its used in a separate form
HeySteve: well if a fork is for stabbing, a blockchain is for timestamping as nanotube said to me
ThickAsThieves: http://cache.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/images/items/light-my-fire-spork-xm-M.jpg
ThickAsThieves: apparently even the spork needed innovating
kakobrekla: wheres the chopstick in this thing
HeySteve: timestamping doesn't initially seem to add much to a WoT, but I'm starting to think the more data points the easier to spot Sibyls
ThickAsThieves: sold separately
HeySteve: an individual is easy to fake, a real network much harder (so my theory goes)
ThickAsThieves: time-stamping is useful
ThickAsThieves: it helps someone add context when asessing ratings
ThickAsThieves: assessing*
HeySteve: is there a time associated with anything but registration in the WoT?
HeySteve: I'm thinking rating will be a transaction, so that's timestamped and recorded. as you say, it is another level of context
ThickAsThieves: yeah it stores when you rated someone
ThickAsThieves: right?
ThickAsThieves: ;;gettrust kakobrekla
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ThickAsThieves to user kakobrekla: Level 1: 3, Level 2: 18 via 7 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ThickAsThieves&dest=kakobrekla | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=kakobrekla | Rated since: Fri May 13 18:50:53 2011
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17883 @ 0.0009564 = 17.1033 BTC [-] {2}
Naphex: so.. why not just rate bitcoin transactions?
Naphex: make it signed before you submit a rateing
ThickAsThieves: i have no argument there
Naphex: and from the same source
ThickAsThieves: i also have no basic problem with integrating a WoT into the blockchain
ThickAsThieves: but this might be due to my ignorance with problems of using the chain for things it wasnt "designed" for
Naphex: A sells Douche to B through bitcoin, B cand then send a signed rate after.
mircea_popescu: <HeySteve> a possible solution is moderation << doesn't work for bitcointalk.
HeySteve: right ThickAsThieves
bounce: case study in where moderation breaks down
HeySteve: heh mircea_popescu, I mean something inspired by the voicing in here
fluffypony: voice isn't moderated
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves Hearn << "If things evolved naturally, I'd end up mattering much less, which is to say my current denial of my own irrelevance would become much more difficult to maintain, even in my own eyes".
mircea_popescu: seems about right.
ThickAsThieves: i think the point of the mircean way is to have "moderation" be dynamic to the viewer
ThickAsThieves: the system provides all the info needed to decide for yourself
HeySteve: fluffypony, nonetheless it is necessary to have at least level 2 trust with assbot or be vouched for to participate
fluffypony: there's that point about #bitcoin-assets +m producing an aristocracy, of sorts, but that's not the same as modereation
bounce: usenet was pretty spiffy before AOL though. even if you needed a sometimes gigantic killfile
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 64 @ 0.06594801 = 4.2207 BTC [+] {5}
HeySteve: ok fluffypony, fair enough, I need a better word for it
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> who knows what's possible when you add a new feature that already exists << lmao
ThickAsThieves: fluffypony, note that this chan does not moderate who can view it
fluffypony: ^^
mircea_popescu: <Naphex> if i would've had more time i would deffinetly do a ISK/BTC exchange just for fun:D << or else just join 1BTC, bitcoin's eve guild, where shares are tradeable for mpex shares etc.
HeySteve: essentially mining rights will be restricted to those who have been vouched for or rated as definitely being real people
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> Would it be correct to say that Reddit is broken economy in that downvoters are not identified? << yes, but at an "at least in that"
bounce: o_O? blah now I need to go dig.
mircea_popescu: <HeySteve> I'm still stuck on this Sybil thing :) if you identify a puppet troupe, is there a mechanism to neutralise it beyond information-sharing? << no, by definition.
ThickAsThieves: wait you wanna moderate mining rights?
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> first it is not yet proven that all systems require an "mircean" economy, though i suspect they do << all systems contain one, whether aware or not, i'd say.
ThickAsThieves: all "sustainable" systems at least
mircea_popescu: <HeySteve> timestamping doesn't initially seem to add much to a WoT, but I'm starting to think the more data points the easier to spot Sibyls <<< wot has timestamps as it is.
mircea_popescu: blockchain would only add some further trust to the already existing states, is all.
mircea_popescu: HeySteve voice here is a wholly innovative, quite well designed thing. it has exactly nothing in common with "moderation" as used on the interwebs forums
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> all "sustainable" systems at least <<< all systems with moving parts.
mircea_popescu: that's wehy it';s so important, that theory : because it describes the limits of the possibility of being,
mircea_popescu: it's not a technology, it's ontology.
ThickAsThieves: so what steps are needed to make this theory a law?
mircea_popescu: people spending a while trying to find a contradiction with reality and failing to do so.
chetty: yeah keep trying to disprove
fluffypony: that would make it akin to a natural law, yes?
ThickAsThieves: itll be a tough one to prove
ThickAsThieves: since a broken economy can exist for a long time
ThickAsThieves: and people will keep pointing to those
fluffypony: true
HeySteve: this is why I asked about decentralised systems
chetty: humans break everything, its a natural law
bounce: just add brokers, and free market theory says it'll cease to be broken. well, at least the brokers won't go broke.
chetty: https://twitter.com/wences/status/458956014474502144/photo/1
mircea_popescu: fluffypony yeah, kinda how darwin's stuff ended up law.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves but functional is no argument in this discussion.
ThickAsThieves: but how do you prove that a functional economy is broken?
ThickAsThieves: other than by saying it's missing mircean qualities
ThickAsThieves: you can't say, the definition of "definition" is definition
ThickAsThieves: (unless you are a BitBet mod)
ThickAsThieves: ;)
HeySteve: I would tentatively suggest an economy is broken if it leaks value into competing economies
mircea_popescu: no but listen, this is not a discussion of whether a house collapsed
mircea_popescu: it's a discussion of whether it has load bearing walls.
mircea_popescu: of fucking course it does, whether it falls down or not.
mircea_popescu: the concept of load bearing can be illustrated by proving that the walls that stand actually have loadbearing ability in excess of the load
mircea_popescu: and the walls that fall vice versa
mircea_popescu: it can't be disproven by showing some houses standing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 825 @ 0.00095565 = 0.7884 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: i understand, yet can't grok how you'd actually go about proving a "house" can stand without load-bearing walls, in practice
ThickAsThieves: is US economy an offender of your theory?
mircea_popescu: by proving that, for instance, kali-of-the-tits holds up houses
Naphex: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23r9n2/lets_use_mike_hearns_coinbase_reallocation_to/
Naphex: ah good ol reddit dukeouts
mircea_popescu: and there's no such thing as gravity etc.
ThickAsThieves: naphex thats what i was discussing earlier
ThickAsThieves: that post is petertodd trolling Hearn
Naphex: yeah just finished checking it out
Naphex: lots of work today
mircea_popescu: fucking outrageous.
mircea_popescu: anyway, off to lunch.
HeySteve: heh
HeySteve: I give peter todd points for style, mike hearn sounds very grumpy
ThickAsThieves: mircea_popescu ALERT! ALERT! http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/04/23/buffett-cant-find-bear-for-berkshire-annual-meeting/
ThickAsThieves: "It’s hard to find someone who wants to go on record betting against Warren Buffett."
fluffypony: lol
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/449558141525827584 < did you know wences runs that thing? (i did not)
Naphex: bbl o/
asciilifeform: wences, the one with the missile silo ?
kakobrekla: i dunno about missile silo
asciilifeform: in his place, i would've sprung for a satellite constellation, storage using shamir's splitter algo.
asciilifeform: but what do i know.
fluffypony: asciilifeform: but you don't have (c) and tm after that, so how can anyone trust you to store their BTC safely?
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: just store it in... your nuke.
asciilifeform: http://northernrob.smugmug.com/Other/Various-Bike-Pics/i-Z3Vn98M/0/L/Richs-Royal-Enfield-Nuke-Bike-L.jpg
kakobrekla: speaking of sats
kakobrekla: http://www.coindesk.com/jeff-garzik-announces-partnership-launch-bitcoin-satellites-space/
kakobrekla: here, some yellow press.
asciilifeform: notice what isn't in a 'cubesat.'
fluffypony: holy cowbell the ignornace
fluffypony: ignorance
fluffypony: "a 512GB SSD Drive will do in the satellite for the coming 10 years. It will barely consume power and generate next to no heat at all.... It is not like we are sending miners into space, just public nodes carrying the blockchain...."
asciilifeform: come on, what's missing ?
asciilifeform: there's an obvious attribute of 'adult' sats that is nowhere
fluffypony: asciilifeform: a computer? some form of communication?
asciilifeform: damnit
asciilifeform: thrusters.
ThickAsThieves: ability to manuever?
fluffypony: ah
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves << winner
fluffypony sends ThickAsThieves 203928312 ATC
fluffypony: or Timekoin if you'd prefer
HeySteve: are thrusters required to stop the orbit degrading or something?
ThickAsThieves: asciilifeform, have you seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6p-1J551Y
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15752 @ 0.00095284 = 15.0091 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1144&context=smallsat (pdf)
asciilifeform: see pg. 2
asciilifeform: pathetic lifetimes.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52514439 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: 'low orbit is no orbit.'
asciilifeform: cubesats are normally a thing for engineering students.
asciilifeform: an exercise.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.52961812 = 5.8258 BTC [+] {5}
ThickAsThieves: making garzik's soliciting for donations that much more ugly
ThickAsThieves: let's all buy a toy!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 22 @ 0.52840909 = 11.625 BTC [-] {2}
davout: fluffypony: aren't SSD drives the least durable one could pick?
fluffypony: davout: yeah I don't know what that commenter was thinking
asciilifeform: in herr casares's place, i'd actually consider deep ocean sonobuoys.
HeySteve: so about 3 years and it burns up?
ThickAsThieves: commenters sayng stuff like "This satellite is really important for the future of bitcoin."
asciilifeform: HeySteve: try 3 weeks.
ThickAsThieves: "There are so many smart forward thinkers in the digital currency space. I'm so impressed."
fluffypony: davout: they're probably thinking they can just send a Raspberry Pi and an SSD up and it'll work
HeySteve: asciilifeform, going on deploy date vs. decay date in the stats there
asciilifeform: ;;google SOFAR channel
gribble: SOFAR channel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOFAR_channel>; SOFAR channel - NOAA Ocean Explorer: <http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/sound01/background/acoustics/media/sofar.html>; DOSITS: Sound Travel in the SOFAR Channel: <http://www.dosits.org/science/soundmovement/sofar/sofartravel/>
HeySteve: it seems they CAN stay up a while, what is different between the ones that last 1000+ days and the month long ones?
ThickAsThieves: HeySteve, but note the newer cubes last the least amount of time
asciilifeform: sink'em. comms via sonar. no radiation problems, no decay, use thermocline with 'peltier' for energy source.
HeySteve: is it the launch vehicle, ones deployed low fail quickly perhaps?
asciilifeform: and let it pop its keys if barometer reveals that it's been fished out.
asciilifeform: make the chassis from 'inconel' or similar alloy.
asciilifeform: 3000+ yrs. in salt water, no corrosion
asciilifeform: and then you're rid of the Procrustean size limits of orbiting widgets
asciilifeform: to talk to 'seacoin' all you'd need is a hydrophone and a few km of fishing line.
davout: asciilifeform: enjoy your tectonic plates
asciilifeform: davout: nobody said it'd be trivial
asciilifeform: davout: likewise, note that these wouldn't sit on the floor
ThickAsThieves: they would live inside a whale
asciilifeform: you want them bobbing about as close to SOFAR depth as possible
HeySteve: but what about... bitcoin whales (drumroll)
ThickAsThieves: Pinnochio Nodes
asciilifeform: ideally they'd have a solid-state (piezo?) 'swim bladder'
ThickAsThieves: Pinocchio*
ThickAsThieves: Pinodecchio
HeySteve: asciilifeform, if you're willing to talk me through the science I'll write about Cubesats fails because F coindesk
ThickAsThieves: naming even works with Rasberry Pi!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.52422529 = 1.5727 BTC [-] {2}
davout: HeySteve: lol
asciilifeform blows dust off shelv
asciilifeform: wertz & larson, 'space mission analysis and design'
asciilifeform: get thee to library.
asciilifeform: 'reducing space mission cost' (same)
asciilifeform: if you like physical security exotica, consider poseidon's kingdom instead.
asciilifeform: deep sea machines don't orbit decay.
HeySteve: someone is offering his 3d printed cubesat to the project
asciilifeform: $10 anchor instead of $10M rocket laugh^H^Hnch
HeySteve: "for the amount saved in mass, you may like to add extra avionics to BitSat."
asciilifeform: yeah let's put plastic in orbit.
asciilifeform: can i get off this planet plz
asciilifeform: my bogodosimeter's maxed out
kakobrekla: take me with you, ill pay for half the fuel.
asciilifeform: http://dev.solita.fi/img/beyond-cargo-cult-software-design/cargoplane.jpg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34421 @ 0.00095313 = 32.8077 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: now if you like yer brain coming out yer ears, remember that launching (orbit, sea, mars, wherever) is the easy part
asciilifeform: i was once taught 'gypsy recipe for chicken' - '1) first, find a chicken'
asciilifeform: we haven't the chicken
asciilifeform: e.g. computer suitable for the application.
asciilifeform imagines the moneyed idiot who launches a 'pc-compatible' running existing softs, for security-critical application
kakobrekla: happens all the time
Duffer1: http://www.coindesk.com/jeff-garzik-announces-partnership-launch-bitcoin-satellites-space/
kakobrekla: trice.
asciilifeform: this isn't merely sad
asciilifeform: it's undergrad-level sad.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 62 @ 0.00481945 = 0.2988 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: there's a certain engineering dynamic at work, where the poor schmuck begins to contemplate what it would take to -actually- solve the problem, and then his starfish begins to pucker
asciilifeform: and he decides that arithmetic won't apply to him if he 'want it enough'
fluffypony: why do I open my big mouth in the comments section
fluffypony: "An SSD is non-magnetic storage, there is not really any protection needed. Put a metal case around it and im pretty sure it can drop from the atmosphere into the ground at free fall speed and still operate once free'd from the metal casing"
fluffypony bangs head into table
kakobrekla: the real problem with ssd is the controller on it
fluffypony: someone else said "tungsten is the high density option- polyethylene is the low option. also, for circular orbits below 1000 km radiation is nominal in terms of bitflips etc."
fluffypony: re: shielding it
asciilifeform: ssd doesn't do terribly well here on earth.
asciilifeform: ;;google ssd ion migration
gribble: Free Today - Paragon Migrate OS to SSD 3.0 - Windows 7 Help Forums: <http://www.sevenforums.com/software/290054-free-today-paragon-migrate-os-ssd-3-0-a.html>; Samsung XP941 NGFF M.2 PCIe SSDs in RAID 0 - The SSD Review: <http://www.thessdreview.com/our-reviews/samsung-xp941-m-2-pcie-ssds-raid-0-worlds-smallest-ssd-combination-hits-2gbs/>; OCZ Agility 4 SATA III 2.5" SSD (EOL): (1 more message)
asciilifeform: fuck it
asciilifeform: ;;google flash write cycles
gribble: Flash memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory>; SSD endurance myths and legends - saga continues in 3D: <http://www.storagesearch.com/ssdmyths-endurance.html>; How to stretch the life of your SSD storage | PCWorld: <http://www.pcworld.com/article/2043634/how-to-stretch-the-life-of-your-ssd-storage.html>
kakobrekla: nah, controllers will die before you will wear it out
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: for chinese boards, certainly
kakobrekla: it doesnt seem to be limited to chinese
ThickAsThieves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TyyixJ2bQ4
ozbot: Awesome Video CGI for a KID - YouTube
asciilifeform: is anyone involved with the crapsat even vaguely familiar with how adult machines are built?
asciilifeform: e.g. massive redundancy, rad hardening, etc
asciilifeform: ;;google tandem cpu
gribble: Tandem Computers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandem_Computers>; TACL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TACL>; Guardian 90: A Distributed Operating System Optimized ...: <http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/tandem/TR-90.8.pdf>
ThickAsThieves: are you questioning a core developer of bitcoin!?
asciilifeform: lol
fluffypony: I believe the charge for such heresy is a negrating on the WoT
ThickAsThieves: me in #bitcoin-dev : <ThickAsThieves> i'd like to put a nose in my nose to prevent me from having to smell things i dont like
fluffypony: lol
asciilifeform: ;;google zimbabwe rock oil
gribble: Mugabe: 'Diesel mystic's beauty blinded ministers' - New Zimbabwe ...: <http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/fuel42.17176.html>; Mystic leads Zimbabwe government on fake fuel hunt: <http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/fuel38.16709.html>; Zim 'diesel conjurer' gets 3 years | News24: <http://www.news24.com/Africa/Zimbabwe/Zim-diesel-conjurer-gets-3-years-20100930>
bounce: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2014/04/23/emergency_services_network/ -- I thought they already had a unified service. so, how hard is it to cook up a few suitable radio designs and add some backing management software?
asciilifeform: and now for today's lul,
asciilifeform: http://cryptome.org/2014/04/TCP32764_backdoor_again.pdf
TomServo: haha - just finished reading that
Duffer1: new idea for s.nsa? :)
asciilifeform: Duffer1: what'd that be ?
Duffer1: secure routers
asciilifeform: Duffer1: see the point about satellites.
Duffer1: hehe
asciilifeform: bounce: cook up a few suitable radio designs << think about this.
asciilifeform: there are two basic strategies for invincibility. biologists say 'r-strategy and m-strategy.'
asciilifeform: 'm' would correspond to, e.g. satellites, deep ocean pods, etc.
asciilifeform: 'r' - well, say, this - http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Radio_20Parasite#996195704
asciilifeform: either would require suitable technological building blocks
asciilifeform: which are conspicuously absent.
asciilifeform: anyone who doesn't grasp this is a pwnie, doomed to be ridden by children in the park.
bounce: didn't DARPA issue a "challenge" for cigarette-sized easily scatterable mobile APs?
asciilifeform: but that's all i'll say about this, for now
bounce: er, s/cigarette/& box/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6846 @ 0.00095397 = 6.5309 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: everyone loves physical security exotica, because 'sexy'
asciilifeform: go, polish a turd.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24054 @ 0.00095242 = 22.9095 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: you talking about dildo wallet?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: lol, Göringwallet.
kakobrekla: thats the one
bounce: plenty turds in any given polish craphouse
fluffypony wades out of the CoinDesk comment section
fluffypony: it's becoming worse than reddit
benkay: toughest lesson of undergrad was working out and accepting capital requirements for orbit and deep sea industry
TomServo: !up tris
assbot: Voicing tris for 30 minutes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2350 @ 0.00095242 = 2.2382 BTC [-]
davout: benkay: lol
benkay: davout: the story gets more amusing
cgcardona_: morning everyone
benkay: i was preparing a frontal assault on Nautilus Minerals and Reaction Engines Ltd. when I acquired a redhead who understandably has no desire to live in either rural Britain or within commuting distance of deep-sea deposits.
benkay: REL continues to not deliver (although hey, give 'em a decade or two and maybe we'll get cold fusion while we're at it) and Nautilus continues to inch forwards: http://www.nautilusminerals.com/s/Media-NewsReleases.asp?ReportID=647179
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06857999 = 0.3429 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30950 @ 0.00095193 = 29.4622 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: hue hue hue: http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/F-U:CN
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.50929394 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.06857999 = 0.4801 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: ;;ident
gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is not identified.
thestringpuller: damn i need to auth
benkay: thestringpuller: how are you voiced if not authed?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.03199 = 0.16 BTC [-]
benkay: ;;ident thestringpuller
gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is not identified.
benkay: !down thestringpuller
Duffer1: hater
Duffer1: :P
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06859999 = 0.343 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06859999 = 0.1372 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.0324 = 0.2592 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.04250059 = 0.2975 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 7 @ 0.0742218 = 0.5196 BTC [-] {3}
Naphex: boring day todau :)
Naphex: today* even
davout: Naphex: if you're bored go troll #bitcoin-dev
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.0325 = 0.195 BTC [+] {3}
Naphex: party finished over there hehe so too late ;l
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.54515920 BTC to 7`064 shares, 36030 satoshi per share
moiety: hello
Naphex: i could start working on the payments api but nuff work for the day
benkay: morning, moiety
moiety: how are you benkay? saw something that reminded me of here, so snipped it http://i.imgur.com/VgelVaK.png
benkay: nice.
benkay: i have yet to actually remember the laser-kitteh command, moiety
benkay: ;;laser-kitteh
gribble: Error: "laser-kitteh" is not a valid command.
benkay: ;;kitteh-lasers
gribble: Error: "kitteh-lasers" is not a valid command.
benkay: ;;kitteh-laser
gribble: Error: "kitteh-laser" is not a valid command.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.03275 = 0.1638 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.0425 = 0.2125 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.0742218 = 0.3711 BTC [-]
moiety: ;; laserkittens
gribble: ุ ₍˄.͡˳̫.˄₎ ุ ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew*
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0425 = 0.1275 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.0742218 = 0.2227 BTC [-]
moiety: i'd like to see gribbles logs for the past day or two... so many attempts at laser kttehs
benkay: laserkittens, you say.
benkay: well, thanks moiety.
moiety: i totally did not pm gribble looking... >.>
moiety: kakobrekla, we need lasermanuls!
moiety: twitter's had an fb facelift, it's weird
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 200 @ 0.06310574 = 12.6211 BTC [-] {12}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 65 @ 0.06142724 = 3.9928 BTC [-] {18}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06000245 = 0.6 BTC [-] {2}
moiety: scotland's so backwards, you can't submit any forms online
fluffypony: moiety: sounds like here
fluffypony: except for tax
moiety: so irritating, fucked without a printer
fluffypony: moiety: what OS?
moiety: OS? winblows, why?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2753 @ 0.00013383 = 0.3684 BTC [-] {9}
fluffypony: I'm on OS X
fluffypony: and what I've taken to doing
fluffypony: is using Preview to fill in forms (use the annotation tools where necessary)
fluffypony: then
fluffypony: I bought a copy of PDFPen
fluffypony: fire that up when doc is complete
fluffypony: I have a PNG of my signature
fluffypony: copy and paste into doc, resize and position
fluffypony: save and send
benkay: os x preview will now capture and insert signatures from the laptop camera, fluffypony
moiety: thanks :) i'll try this, i'm not sure if they will accept via email though
benkay: what forms're you submitting, moiety ?
fluffypony: benkay: didn't know that - but doesn't the form need to have a dedicated PDF-compliant signature block to use that?
moiety: applying to every council i can around here
benkay: fluffypony: don't quite recall much more than writing my name on a piece of paper and dropping it into the pdf.
fluffypony: cool I'll give that a spin, tks benkay
benkay: i mean the idiotic format lets one absolutely position letters so why not sigs?
benkay: moiety: what kinds of coucils? are you going full-commie on us?
fluffypony: Eric Clapton and BB King kinda night
fluffypony fires up some muzaks
moiety: lol no i just need somewhere to live
benkay: ah i see
kakobrekla: ah lol davout http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=102 , i had _exactly_ (down to the number) the same argument
moiety: and everything is so retarded here unless you are pregnant and/or have a drug habit
davout: kakobrekla: as long as we don't have the same gf :D
kakobrekla: :D
benkay: moiety: sounds like you have your work cut out for you.
fluffypony: well I suppose it's better than the "how come when you messaged that you love me you only put 2 exclamation marks when I put 4?" argument
davout: fluffypony: you don't know french women
davout: XD
benkay: juh-hee-zus
fluffypony: lol
benkay: exclamation points?
benkay: "girl i'm busy you're lucky i hammered that out mispellings and all"
fluffypony: benkay: yeah, one of the reasons why I married my wife was because she wasn't full of shit like that (full of shit in other ways, but not pedantry/jealousy like that)
fluffypony: but I had that exact argument with an ex-gf in my mid-20s
moiety: i hate message things that give a 'read' report. just leads to "why did it take you 4 hours to reply?"
fluffypony: moiety: WhatsApp is the worst with that..."I see the message got delivered because there's a second tick...are we fighting now that you're not replying?"
davout: moiety: the best way to answer that is "because i didn't feel like it"
moiety: voxer gives a location point on a map, thats even worse, i used to get "why were you not at your house?"
benkay: sometimes more information is worst information
benkay: moiety: ugh.
fluffypony shudders at the thought
moiety: "I'm allowed to go buy food!"
fluffypony: hah hah
fluffypony: that's when they "surprise" you with a visit to your house, right?
moiety: no just sitting huffing being a retard. even though if you check the map of my city it would show a Tesco store or something
moiety: i got a "and who's this?" once .. "zoom in, its the doctors -_-"
fluffypony chuckles
moiety: i never used whats app, they kept info of people on their users contacts lists that didnt even have the app o.o
benkay: i'll do you one better
benkay: if i ever want to get off the iphone i have to get a new number, because my current number is cached in every iphone that's ever texted me and will go over apple's servers no matter no matter.
moiety: wtf apple
benkay: i'll probably have to keep the old number alive and set up an auto-responder saying 'this number is dead please try blah blah blah..."
fluffypony: yeah, I resigned myself to sacrificing all measure of privacy the minute I got my Nokia N95 and realised all the crap that could go on in the background
benkay: but i'm now fucked on this number
benkay: this number is now no longer portable
moiety: that snowden phone that everyone had kittens over seemed a bit futile to me
benkay: well, from provider to provider sure.
benkay: but not from ios to anything else
fluffypony: benkay: ok no wait that's not right
fluffypony: I have a friend that switched from iOS to Android in October
fluffypony: and it doesn't offer the blue iMessage option or anything any longer
fluffypony: I think if they haven't signed in to iCloud/iMessage from an iOS device it takes them off the active list or whatevs
Naphex: cmon guys
Naphex: decentralized telephony
Naphex: pay2relay
fluffypony: encrypted HAM?
Naphex: nah regular telephonyi
Naphex: have a radio mesh of transcievers
Naphex: phone looks for strongest signal
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 750 @ 0.14 = 105 BTC
Naphex: hard to type from phone
Naphex: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_mesh_network
ozbot: Wireless mesh network - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Naphex: pay to carry voip with cryptos
fluffypony: ok so
fluffypony: I'm looking for a bit of seed funding to expand and grow OpenRigs, benkay took a looksie at a previous version of my proposal and made some suggestions (which I've incorporated)
fluffypony: if anyone has a few mins I'd like a sanity check before I send it out to interested people
fluffypony: https://openrigs.com/download/proposal.pdf
fluffypony: (bearing in mind it's a fiat business, not a BTC business per se, so it's not meant to compete with a pure BTC business)
ThickAsThieves: odd that youre leading with a mining farm
ThickAsThieves: seems superfluous
ThickAsThieves: other than to confirm your rigs are practical
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: that's exactly it, it's a means to an end
benkay: fluffypony: what changes did you make?
fluffypony: benkay: pretty much everything you suggested, I kept PayBee in as I don't want to split it out into an entity on its own just yet
fluffypony: but did everything else
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.0653156 = 0.6532 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: isnt the "Bee" brand kinda taboo now?
fluffypony: lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.065 = 0.325 BTC [-]
fluffypony: I didn't think of it that way
fluffypony: meh, branding is easy to change on that
jurov: even Gox still isn't taboo
jurov: oh, what about GoxBee ?
Naphex: lol
fluffypony: MtBee?
Naphex: goxbeeflyknc?
ThickAsThieves: "Investors can choose to be silent investors, receiving feedback on decisions only,or active investors that will play a role in the decision making process and in the ultimate success of OpenRigs."
fluffypony: not enough BFL
ThickAsThieves: "Investors can choose to be silent investors, providing feedback on decisions only,or active investors that play a role in the decision-making process and in the ultimate success of OpenRigs."
ThickAsThieves: probably could be written better from there, but yknow
fluffypony: ah good point
Naphex: who will you exchange with for paybee?
ThickAsThieves: you say "it opened its website for trading"
jurov: there should be also deaf and deaf-mute investors
ThickAsThieves: trading rigs?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: as in "opened for business", will rephrase
fluffypony: Naphex: Cryptsy, but it's fairly agnostic to the exchange
Naphex: jesus :p
fluffypony: they were just the most willing to make the API changes we needed and they have the volume
ThickAsThieves: are you Spagni?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: yep
Naphex: we're opening our payment services for fiat soonish.
fluffypony: Naphex: the whole point of PayBee is *not* to do fiat directly, tho - once the funds are in BTC it goes straight into the merchant's Bitpay account
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13972 @ 0.00095175 = 13.2979 BTC [-]
Naphex: but we wouldnlt even think about that before doing the exchange first
Naphex: ah so paybee just accepta altcoins?
Naphex: then fowards to bitpay?
fluffypony: Naphex: yes exactly
ThickAsThieves: you mention "competitive advantages" but do you mention notable conpetitors and threats to your plan?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: not so much on the frames side, they're too small to mention, but for PayBee yes
ThickAsThieves: so cooling containers are not mentionable?
fluffypony: cooling containers?
ThickAsThieves: liquid
fluffypony ponders
ThickAsThieves: in other words
ThickAsThieves: identify where your target audience might be spending their money instead
ThickAsThieves: not who else makes what you make
fluffypony: ok good point
benkay: fluffypony: i don't really buy your claims about heat flow. those are the kinds of claims that need to be backed by sims and such.
ThickAsThieves: "Ofcourse,with
ThickAsThieves: the momentarily depressed cryptocurrency economy, OpenRigs is gearing itself up for the next massive wave of
ThickAsThieves: purchasers.
ThickAsThieves: "
ThickAsThieves: that line is shit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.0742218 = 0.1484 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: needs to be more professional and include data
ThickAsThieves: or strike it
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: point
benkay: data
benkay: mining
benkay: market predictions
benkay: i lol'd
fluffypony: benkay: we did FLIR imaging when designing, we're waiting for the FLIR camera to be available for rent again so we can have that data accessible
ThickAsThieves: you provide some individual profit data per item
benkay: that you didn't save your imaging data is a little boggling.
ThickAsThieves: but is there also historical totals?
ThickAsThieves: and projections?
ThickAsThieves: ah i see a graph
ThickAsThieves: no numbers?
fluffypony: benkay: we weren't able to, the dude that rents them is dumb and only lets you observe, not take actual data (although with the new camera he has apparently he'll give us pics and data after)
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: it's purposely light on numbers, I'm not sure whether including all the data on the downward slump inspires investor confidence
ThickAsThieves: well hiding it certainly doesnt
fluffypony: or whether I'll end up explaining why so much it'll be pages of cruft
ThickAsThieves: only cruft if you fluff
fluffypony: not hiding it, it's mentioned and detailed, and even obvious in the graph
fluffypony: just not full of numbers
ThickAsThieves: the graph doesnt show expenses
fluffypony: I can add that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21269 @ 0.00095451 = 20.3015 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: can you show that continually mining with units you buy for spec purposes is actually more profitable than selling them once you are done building hardware for them?
ThickAsThieves: can you show that buying them at all is necessary?
fluffypony: ASICs certainly aren't, better to flip them
fluffypony: but GPU mining yes, I have a few years of historical data
ThickAsThieves: (most units come with size specs, elec specs, etc
ThickAsThieves: )
ThickAsThieves: that elec cost sheet seems incomplete, i'm pretty sure there are even cheaper places
benkay: wouldn't gpu mining cbe require actual power bills?
ThickAsThieves: (i'm being a stickler on purpose, take it or leave it)
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: it's from here - http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/average-electricity-prices-kwh
fluffypony: benkay: yes, but when you're mining scamcoins and dumping them it's always reasonably profitable :-P
ThickAsThieves: i'd like to see separate charts and numbers on the mining farm profit/expense
fluffypony notes
ThickAsThieves: the idea being to truly discern whether it drags you down somehow
ThickAsThieves: in that sensem it maybe should include man hours
fluffypony: ok
ThickAsThieves: i think maybe you are conflicted
ThickAsThieves: and this isnt just about mining cuz it makes sense
ThickAsThieves: but because you desire to
ThickAsThieves: particularly evident in your discussion of BFL and preordering
ThickAsThieves: sound slike you wanna play the game and take ordering risks, etc
benkay: (i've yet to see the mining pitch that actually made sense under real world constraints)
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I like getting stuck into the technical stuff with it, sure, but it *is* a means to an end
fluffypony: I don't want to "grow the farm"
fluffypony: I can make that clearer in the proposal
ThickAsThieves: ok, you mention letting invetsors decide on mining purchases
ThickAsThieves: fuck that
ThickAsThieves: what do they know
ThickAsThieves: thats your job
ThickAsThieves: you dont want your investors/board acting as employees
fluffypony: fair enough
fluffypony: it was more in terms of avoiding scammy pre-orders (mitigating risk) in that space
ThickAsThieves: (again these are off-the-hip opinions)
benkay: the only thing that makes sense to actually pursue is the rack building thing, and that will live and die by whether or not you can land your asic partner.
ThickAsThieves: i see you mention paying out dividends
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.000956 = 5.4492 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: is this sposed to be like a Havelock IPO or something?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I changed that to "apportioning net profit" later, forgot to search for earlier occurancess
fluffypony: *occurances
benkay: everything else is just like "woahaoaowwywowao i want to do all these different bitcoin things!"
ThickAsThieves: i'm not sure there should be any talking of sharing profits in any dividend sorta way
ThickAsThieves: maybe these are details of negotiation with investors
ThickAsThieves: i dunno
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: how else do you do it then? as an LoC?
ThickAsThieves: i'm sorta with benkay here, the best thing seems to be the hardware
ThickAsThieves: well, any time any investor gets money, include you (outside of your salary), they all get their cut
ThickAsThieves: being owners n all
ThickAsThieves: including*
benkay: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=RENT#ui-tabs-3
ThickAsThieves: RENT still not open for trade?
ThickAsThieves: heh
benkay: looks like the rentalstarter bagholders grow weary of getting fucked raw.
ThickAsThieves: with the incoming Scrypt ASICs, does that threaten efforts like your PCI-e multiplexer?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: scrypt-n and X11 based coins will still need miners, and the BOINC/Folding@Home crowd will need it to
ThickAsThieves: word
fluffypony: in fact, there's more experimentation with stuff like that being done by the OCLHashCat guys than in the mining community
fluffypony: because they're not bound by the confines of "what is the most profitable" bullshit
ThickAsThieves: is Zoom Junction affiliated with you or any of your employees or families?
benkay: i'm still waiting to see these cellular automota-based PoW coins.
benkay elbows mike_c
kakobrekla: i played that
ThickAsThieves: shhh
kakobrekla: up 20% atm
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: no, I know one of the guys that is involved with it, but no affiliation beyond that
mike_c: there is only one coin (beside bitcoin)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.06776612 = 0.4066 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: o i s
kakobrekla: hould stfu?
mike_c: no, that's fine
benkay: oh look
benkay: beans all over the floor
benkay: my bad
fluffypony: mike_c: TimeKoin? :-P
ThickAsThieves: with wanting to spend $7500/mo marketing, it seems even more sensible to focus on hardware over paybee and such
ThickAsThieves: just my opinion
ThickAsThieves: do one thing right
ThickAsThieves: get dem partners etc
fluffypony nods
ThickAsThieves: the "funny postcard" mention is either TMI or not enough
ThickAsThieves: i'm not a fan of competitions for marketing
ThickAsThieves: but i'm not sure i'd outright forbid them
fluffypony: https://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php?/topic/6014-openrigs-review-lulz/
ThickAsThieves: just seems there are better options
fluffypony: pic of one of the postcards there
ThickAsThieves: yeah, unless it's some super large or innovatibve marketing method, i'm not sure it needs mention
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11615 @ 0.00095175 = 11.0546 BTC [-]
fluffypony: ok
ThickAsThieves: it seems a little petty in the context
ThickAsThieves: same for the corporate gifting and such
ThickAsThieves: surely theyd prefer colume discounts or referral programs or whatever
ThickAsThieves: volume*
fluffypony: we have both
fluffypony: it's just been my experience that customers get excited about the most arbitrary stuff
Naphex: paybee - personally i'd just stick with btc2fiat and implement locally.
fluffypony: Naphex: then we have regulatory issues to deal with
Naphex: lawyera
fluffypony: we'd have to register as a financial services provider and a deposit taking institution
Naphex: lawyers and accountants
fluffypony: here it's a ball-ache
ThickAsThieves: i could be wrong on the marketing little things, sometimes i get a bit elitist with my views on it
ThickAsThieves: i do not mind the mineotaur effort
ThickAsThieves: including software as a solution seems appropriate
Naphex: fluffypony: is bitcoin recognised as a financial instrument? or 'electronic money' in SA?
ThickAsThieves: assuming it's in your wheelhouse
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.067 = 0.201 BTC [-]
fluffypony: Naphex: nope - official stance from the SARB (reserve bank) is - "Bitcoin has no legal status or a regulatory framework."
fluffypony: so the minute we go into fiat we become a financial services provider
fluffypony: stay in crypto and we can pretty much do whatever we want
Naphex: fluffypony: yeah but youre just sending customer money
fluffypony: Naphex: local exchange has 10BTC daily volume, so we'd have to do BitStamp -> us -> international wire
ThickAsThieves: you mention $65k for software dev, and that's for a worker doing it in his spare time?
fluffypony: we could probably negotiate wire fees with our bank's Forex dept., but I still think we'd be paying a penalty
ThickAsThieves: and/or contracters
ThickAsThieves: this seems shakey
ThickAsThieves: could turn into a black hole of nothing
ThickAsThieves: contractors*
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: yes - I've got deeper numbers on that that I can include, didn't know if it would be info overload
ThickAsThieves: benkay could certainly comment on that aspect better thabn myself
Naphex: fluffypony: yes, and add a buffer at your local bank
ThickAsThieves: the PayBee logo is horrible
fluffypony: lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5135 @ 0.00095129 = 4.8849 BTC [-]
benkay: software in spare time
benkay: always a great idea
benkay: always
ThickAsThieves: the other brands seem decent though
ThickAsThieves: Paybee looks like something fiverr shat out
fluffypony: I'll get the designer to rethink it
ThickAsThieves: or rename it
ThickAsThieves: and/or
fluffypony: yeah, so that's placeholder branding then :-P
benkay: fluffypony: what pays your rent right now?
fluffypony: benkay: I draw a salary at a group level
ThickAsThieves: if you must have Bee, then BeePay
benkay: a salary from this group of companies?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: the Bee was only for the .ee domain hack
ThickAsThieves: it's okay domain hacks dont add success rate
fluffypony: benkay: no - the GearTribe Group, has a 5% stake in OpenRigs
fluffypony: and a bunch of other companies
ThickAsThieves: are you represented within the 5% of GearTribe's too?
ThickAsThieves: as in, are you separately part of GearTribe
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: yes
ThickAsThieves: probly should disclose such
fluffypony: I did at the beginning I think
fluffypony: I'll double check
fluffypony: "OpenRigs is member of the GearTribe group of companies, of which Riccardo Spagni is one of the group directors"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.52970385 BTC [+]
fluffypony: first sentence under Company Structure
ThickAsThieves: ah, what % of GearTribe is you?
fluffypony: 35%
ThickAsThieves: maybe say so
fluffypony: ok cool
ThickAsThieves: "0-confirmationdepositsfromourwalletsinordertoensurethattradesaremadeassoonaspossiblebefore
ThickAsThieves: themarketshifts."
ThickAsThieves: that's not exactly ensuring
benkay: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 485.24, Best ask: 486.92, Bid-ask spread: 1.68000, Last trade: 486.92, 24 hour volume: 6945.06957363, 24 hour low: 484.62, 24 hour high: 496.1, 24 hour vwap: 490.015634959
ThickAsThieves: why not just be transparent about what you seel and when
ThickAsThieves: be verifiable rather than make promises
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: it's not 0-conf to us, it's 0-conf between us and them
ThickAsThieves: i know
ThickAsThieves: butthere is still delay right?
ThickAsThieves: from fsrm to the exchange
ThickAsThieves: farm*
fluffypony: they do the trade the second we initiate the send
fluffypony: if the send fails we go into negative that is caught up later
fluffypony: eventual consistency :-P
ThickAsThieves: negative what?
fluffypony: in other words
fluffypony: when the trade happens our account on the exchange goes -100 ATC +0.5 BTC
fluffypony: when the deposit confirms on the exchange it goes 0 ATC
fluffypony: *back to 0
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36900 @ 0.00095733 = 35.3255 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: so you sell the coins before they are even deposited?
Naphex: so what happens if you get attacked with double spends
benkay: sparta
fluffypony: before they're confirmed, yes
Naphex: what trades?
ThickAsThieves: opm?
fluffypony: Naphex: how? they don't have our privkey to double-spend
Naphex: well where do you get confirmation data from?
fluffypony: the coins are already confirmed on our side
fluffypony: this is between us and the exchange
Naphex: ah
ThickAsThieves: "o CoinhasanenabledBTCmarketonCryptsywithmorethan$1000worthofbuyorders"
ThickAsThieves: why isnt ATC on cryptsy then!>
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: I would write them a strongly worded letter!
benkay: your counterparty is accepting zero-confs
benkay: this is a red flag.
ThickAsThieves: the whole Paybee thing is a deterrent
benkay: the whole thing is low-margin madness.
kakobrekla: ThickAsThieves atc has over 1k bids?
ThickAsThieves: what if some countries apply money laundering laws to inter-crypto trade?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes - get them to add it there and you can buy votes :-P
ThickAsThieves: nice
jurov: ThickAsThieves: how would they enforce?
ThickAsThieves: by forcing an entity in their country to enact AML
ThickAsThieves: and cooperate with providing logs or whateverthefuck
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: if a country banned inter-crypto trades that would affect the exchange primarily?
ThickAsThieves: i didnt say banned
fluffypony: oh AML
ThickAsThieves: i'm just exploring whether you are exposed to red tape
fluffypony: well
ThickAsThieves: basically
fluffypony: we aren't required (right now) to KYC to receive crypto
ThickAsThieves: if i love your mining rig idea
ThickAsThieves: i have to also love your trade idea
ThickAsThieves: this is a problem
fluffypony: the exchange can be required to KYC us as the depositer
fluffypony: ok so then I split it out
fluffypony: separate the entities
mrstickball: ThickAsThieves: what was fluffypony's rig idea?
Naphex: this is in paybee context yes?
fluffypony: Naphex: yes
Naphex: does paybee accept 0conf?
fluffypony: mrstickball: the frames etc.
mrstickball: I see
fluffypony: Naphex: not a chance
mrstickball: didn't know if there was something else to it
ThickAsThieves: lol
ThickAsThieves: you have less money allocated to building this Paybee thing
Naphex: ok. does paybee issue 'different' pub addresses for deposits/payments
ThickAsThieves: than the mining software?
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: because I've done most of the underlying work, it's just front-end crap that needs to be done
ThickAsThieves: dont you have like major security hurdles?
mircea_popescu: this latest hearn bullshit is even more laughable than gmaxwell's previous attack.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck needs protection from bitundo ?
mircea_popescu: i can not be bitundone. nobody sane can. wtf.
Naphex: dunno
Naphex: does anyone use bitundo?
mircea_popescu: "let's solve problems that don't exist through breaking the bitcoin protocol"
fluffypony: Naphex: kind-of - a payment is only possible for 15 mins, so an address can be re-used every few hours
fluffypony: doesn't have to be completely fresh
ThickAsThieves: of course no one uses bitundo
ThickAsThieves: Hearn is either a devil, or has some kind of offense to people poking at bitcoin
ThickAsThieves: like Luke-Jr barring sdice tx
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves more like, they developed bitundo
ThickAsThieves: children
mircea_popescu: nao trying to pass it off as somehow relevant.
Naphex: fluffypony: plenty of room for explotation there. which will bug out and might cause your 0conf balance to go wildly negative
Naphex: lots of edge cases
fluffypony: Naphex: if someone makes a late payment, for eg.?
mircea_popescu: cazalla you there ?
ThickAsThieves: so fluffypony
Naphex: fluffypony: a lot of the cases are around how you aquire and track tx data
ThickAsThieves: overall,
ThickAsThieves: what i see is a nice little hardware business, with ideas about what it could branch to
Naphex: that might easily cause problems with a bad implo
ThickAsThieves: getting bogged down by a load of shit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 2 @ 0.14 = 0.28 BTC
ThickAsThieves: you ask for $350k when $100k would take you a long way if you focused
fluffypony: Naphex: we watch the address for the amount requested; if it appears we know it's paid, if it doesn't (wrong amount, too late) we can't "contact the client" to let them know - they have to contact us and say "ohai, I screwed up"
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: appreciate the input, I'll work a bit more on splitting it out
Naphex: fluffypony: what happens if i senf a tx to multiple addresses you track
Naphex: send*
Naphex: and send 0.1 to each
fluffypony: Naphex: doesn't matter, we're expecting 0.5 to address X, not to the "wallet" as a whole
ThickAsThieves: note i'm not saying split it out
ThickAsThieves: i'm saying the extra shit should be tabled til the other parts are fully grown
fluffypony ponders
Naphex: fluffypony: yeah but in my case you are receiving 4 payments in the same tx
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: so then would it be better to 1. keep everything in but stagger the funding (eg. 100k now, another 100k when X milestones reached, etc.), or 2. take stuff out and then seek further funding later
Naphex: to 4 different addresses that you track awaiting payment
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00095846 = 16.4855 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: Let's narrow it. Yugo, Romanian or Russian? Which SKS handles "mice" best << i doubt yo ucould shoot mice indoors.
fluffypony: Naphex: sure, but we aren't watching transactions
BingoBoingo: Eh
fluffypony: Naphex: have you worked with listreceivedbyaddress at all?
ThickAsThieves: well, in my opinion, i think the hardware business is the most sensible aspect, and then the mineotour stuff a nice thing to branch into
ThickAsThieves: so maybe 2 phases
ThickAsThieves: and 1 paybee gets tabled to be revisited in a year or whatever
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: ok cool, I'll start reworking
fluffypony: thanks for all the input everyone
fluffypony: Naphex: getting back to what you were saying - listreceivedbyaddress <minconf=1> <includeempty=false>
fluffypony: so we poll that
Naphex: ah
fluffypony: and once an amount is available in an address for the minimum number of confs it's in the json
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.0425 = 0.2125 BTC [-]
fluffypony: (listreceivedbyaddress shows a "running total", of sorts, so you have to know what the previous value was to spot that it's changed, but that's trivial"
Naphex: fluffypony: i know, a lot of implos i reviewex had very bugged tracking
Naphex: thats why i was asking
fluffypony: Naphex: yeah I know, I struggled with the dynamics for a while before settling on "just poll the daemon"
fluffypony: early attempts were "just watch the blockchain", but altcoins implementations are so ridiculous
Naphex: mircea_popescu: wth, you have mice indoors?
mircea_popescu: http://bit.ly/1lFMuuB << check out that shit. 3 > 2 > 1 > 7 > 8 > 9
mircea_popescu: Naphex presumably he's not about to run amok on a field shooting mice
BingoBoingo: Turns out it actually was a mouse and I had managed to dispatch it by stepping on it
Naphex: :))
ThickAsThieves: "Supreme Court says child porn victims can claim payment from anyone who has their images"
ThickAsThieves: incentive?
Naphex: cp royalties?
Naphex: wtfux
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves https://twitter.com/Mircea_Popescu/status/459032829788430337
mircea_popescu: danke :)
mircea_popescu: Naphex joint and several liability.
ThickAsThieves: :)
ThickAsThieves: The ".farm" TLD is now available.
mircea_popescu: im curious if they'll STILL pretend like "nobody is pointing and laughing at the naked emperor".
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yeah, i did know.
mircea_popescu: !up zedong
assbot: Voicing zedong for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: benkay: So yeah, hangovers still a thing
mircea_popescu: speaking of cube sats : romania's first and so far only sat, a 10cm cube, was launched last year
mircea_popescu: it failed within a week.
ThickAsThieves: how come all the newer ones fail sooner?
benkay: 3d printers :D
mircea_popescu: how come coca cola sucks now. etc
ThickAsThieves: even space cant escapt the walmart effect
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: davout: they're probably thinking they can just send a Raspberry Pi and an SSD up and it'll work <<< they shouldn't have to spring for a ssd.
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: must we type quietly?
mircea_popescu: can't they just store it all in the cloud ?
ThickAsThieves: they can't hear you save-a-lot in space
mircea_popescu: amazon should pay for it, because this is so innovative and forward thinking anyway
benkay: well there's spacex, doing reusable launch vehicles
mircea_popescu: they'd recoup it all in no time because they'll get reddit gold and forum love.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: maybe Amazon can just arrange for the CubeSat to be delivered into space by quadcopter
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.06544472 = 0.6544 BTC [-]
Naphex: what else is there to live for?
mircea_popescu: fluffypony i like asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: s sonar idea.
mircea_popescu: should be on a sat.
mircea_popescu: Dogecoin Low Orbiting Quadcopter-Launched, Sonar Linked Cloud Sattelite Without Carbon Footprint.
mircea_popescu: DLOQLSLCSWCF
fluffypony: lol
TestingUnoDosTre: no carbon footprint!!!
fluffypony: let's write a whitepaper and raise funds
mircea_popescu: it's for porn.
fluffypony: we'll call it "Proof of Launch"
mircea_popescu: more like "proof of drool"
fluffypony: basically everyone sends funds to a Bitcoin address, and then we convert that to SateliteCoinz that we give them
fluffypony: and then we spend all the money and don't do anything
mircea_popescu: btw davout that blondie said she's got tickets to whatever concert tonight.
fluffypony: https://blockchain.info/address/1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E <- MaidScam raised 6240 BTC so far
ozbot: Bitcoin Address 1KHfLixa2idRnZXMUfEisBati1vpywaH6E
fluffypony: I swear, all you need is a whitepaper and a few media interviews
mircea_popescu: fluffypony let me let you in on a secret
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.0009596 = 9.9798 BTC [+] {2}
TestingUnoDosTre: #bitcoin-assets secrets
ThickAsThieves: there's no way in hell that much coin was spent on MaidSafe
mircea_popescu: !up joecool
assbot: Voicing joecool for 30 minutes.
joecool: thanks
mircea_popescu: ;;seen gribble
ThickAsThieves: it's smoke and mirrors
mircea_popescu: hm. if gribble is not here to have not seen gribble, is gribble really gone ?
mircea_popescu: well if the secret is not really obivous : neobee claimed to have raised 5k btc. but they lied.
joecool: gribble will live on in our memory
mircea_popescu: the reason they lied is that the fuckwits on the forum like to invest if they perceive others have.
joecool: (and logs)
mircea_popescu: not that the fiat venture circuit is any different. we had a lol over this @con
mircea_popescu: !up the20year
assbot: Voicing the20year for 30 minutes.
ThickAsThieves: at my expense :)
mircea_popescu: the20year well if no gribble it's problematic.
joecool: so romania's space program is neck and neck with DPRK's?
the20year: Is there a way to ID with gribble if he isn't here?
the20year: Romania doesn't have MRBMs
ThickAsThieves: coincidentally i just emailed the software guys
mircea_popescu: joecool hardly.
the20year: Which is only slightly worse than DPRK
ThickAsThieves: told em to get into the channel
ThickAsThieves: so we'll see
the20year: We located a potential property #7
Naphex: mircea_popescu: hitbtc says they got 7m usd, in investments
ThickAsThieves: how is the 3PO going the20tear?
benkay: ThickAsThieves: software aguys?
the20year: Decent, started great, has slowed down. Could be due to market, could be due to dropping out on the CREI stuff
ThickAsThieves: benkay, the software team that was making all the Neo stuff, got stranded, etc
ThickAsThieves: they have a plan to stay afloat
ThickAsThieves: i told em to come here for trial by fire
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06776309 = 0.2033 BTC [+]
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: are they locals or did some relocate there?
Naphex: neo drama killed lots of its momentum imo
Naphex: if not all
benkay: 17,790 sold first week of 3PO; 1,465 second week, 1,785 third week. any estimates on how long it's going to take to clear the rest of your sale, the20year?
ThickAsThieves: they are based in cyprus
ThickAsThieves: two guys plus a whole team they hired
fluffypony: sucks
ThickAsThieves: they got about 80% done with varioud Neo projects and were never fully paid
fluffypony: find someone to relocate them to South Africa
ThickAsThieves: but will scrap all that stuff
fluffypony: I'll sort them out
ThickAsThieves: they have new ideas
benkay: ideas, you say...
ThickAsThieves: the sort i am not familiar with
benkay: STRANGE IDEAS, YOU SAY!
benkay: perhaps wifi in the cardano.
ThickAsThieves: and generally i met these guys and like them as people, so would hope that any bad ideas can be squashed earlier than later
ThickAsThieves: and maybe the crew here can help them see any weaknesses
Naphex: everybody throw a btc idea out there, as fast as possible :p
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.0679895 = 0.6119 BTC [+] {2}
benkay: sharpie in pooper
ThickAsThieves: nah i think their focus is in providing specialized bitcoin software solutions
ThickAsThieves: thin clients and other mumbo jumbo i no nothing about
ThickAsThieves: know*
benkay: well get 'em in there
benkay: here
benkay: wherever
fluffypony: benkay: sharpie in pooper = warm storage?
ThickAsThieves: hopefully this week benkay
ThickAsThieves: assuming they dont chicken out
the20year: Benkay, at this rate 3-4 more weeks, but the funding ends on the 7th whether they sell or not
mike_c: ThickAsThieves: i believe it was you who was talking about timestamps on blocks. See here how it is unreliable in practice: http://i.imgur.com/i6Xa7Qd.png
mike_c: some altcoin miner has a bad system clock.
ThickAsThieves: it was me, i forget the topic
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3500 @ 0.00013124 = 0.4593 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.0683931 = 0.4104 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> they got about 80% done with varioud Neo projects and were never fully paid <<< unless some greenhorn makes the mistake of "buying it", in which case the 80% turns into... nothing at all.
ThickAsThieves: their lawyers say to scrap it regardless
the20year: who's lawyers?
davout: mircea_popescu: "btw davout that blondie said she's got tickets to whatever concert tonight." <<< wat
ThickAsThieves: programming consultants for Neo
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> and generally i met these guys and like them as people, so would hope that any bad ideas can be squashed earlier than later << except that's not what they want. they want their stupidity to be empowered by incompetent management, exactly like brewster. which is why they worked for him rather than for me. the only thing they'd do differently, the ONLY thing, would be for it to "work" this time. by itsel
mircea_popescu: f. they're great, as they are.
mircea_popescu: davout Oleanie joined, so whadda ya expect.
ThickAsThieves: lol
davout: oh, the other blondie
mircea_popescu: the other blondie has a peen
mircea_popescu: dude this fucking log. am i ever going through it!
davout: mircea_popescu: my fucking log is pretty packed too, gotta buy a new one
mircea_popescu: lol
ThickAsThieves: in debating whether to go to Amsterdam next month, my wife "you can't just go to Europe every month!" me: "why not? i can do whatever i want"
ThickAsThieves: she didnt know what to say
mircea_popescu: http://moneygunsweed.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/killian-skarr-sex-machine03-500x666.jpg << the fcking log.
ThickAsThieves: yikes
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjCHD41I7ok
davout: ew
ThickAsThieves: lol
fluffypony: da fuq
fluffypony: do not want
mircea_popescu: !up BigBitz
assbot: Voicing BigBitz for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot BigBitz
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask BigBitz!~BigBitz@dab.stonabox.me. Trust relationship from user assbot to user BigBitz: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=BigBitz | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=BigBitz | Rated since: Fri Apr 26 11:13:53 2013
BigBitz: thx.
mircea_popescu: BigBitz you id with gribble then pm assbot !up
BigBitz: ;;ident
gribble: Nick 'BigBitz', with hostmask 'BigBitz!~BigBitz@dab.stonabox.me', is identified as user 'BigBitz', with GPG key id AB6B34E4289B7F96, key fingerprint E6D96C3A035A057AD9DD8A9DAB6B34E4289B7F96, and bitcoin address 1BigBitzyouKT2eVYvHbRUNMkCp9bvAvSu
BigBitz: Ah !up - didn't know the command. :)
BigBitz: ThickAsThieves go to Amsterdam. It's nice :)
mircea_popescu: HeySteve: "for the amount saved in mass, you may like to add extra avionics to BitSat." << satellite avionics ?
ThickAsThieves: BigBitz, I've been, twice
BigBitz: ThickAsThieves third time will be a charm then.
ThickAsThieves: just $1800 to fly and attend the conference
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: so then come to glorious South Africa!
BigBitz: Meh isn't the AMS conference a flop?
asciilifeform: which one of you weirdos was hunting mice with a mosin.
asciilifeform: or did i dream this
mircea_popescu: fluffypony:
mircea_popescu: "An SSD is non-magnetic storage, there is not really any protection needed. Put a metal case around it and im pretty sure it can drop from the atmosphere into the ground at free fall speed and still operate once free'd from the metal casing" <<< pretty sure is magic!
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1793270/plain/)
mircea_popescu: !b 1
BigBitz: I want to go to South Africa, actually, fluffypony.
fluffypony has wine
fluffypony: BigBitz: let me know if you want to come, you can take a turn past us and we can see how many bottles of wine we can get through
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yeah that quote broke my brain
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: you should see where the comment thread went to from there, that guy was an idiot
BigBitz: fluffypony, awesome. I want go to Safari.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony there's a reason i don't read these things.
ThickAsThieves: i do have all these euros i converted at the airport that were of no use in ROmania
fluffypony: BigBitz: so many awesome safari places near us and up near Kruger park, so for definite let me know :)
BigBitz: Awesome. If I am there I will hit you up. :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that zimbabwe oil thing and the peron cold fusion thing should make babies.
asciilifeform: loltron!
TomServo: asciilifeform: I believe BingoBoingo was inquiring about the rifles.
ThickAsThieves: <+fluffypony> ThickAsThieves: so then come to glorious South Africa! // my wife would be into that
asciilifeform: the baby will incubate in the '90s 'elbrus' supercomputer
ThickAsThieves: she wants to save the animals
ThickAsThieves: and pet them
ThickAsThieves: etc
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so you shoot them, she hurries them to the animal er.
ThickAsThieves: lol
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: we're literally 20kms from Jukani - http://www.jukani.co.za
mircea_popescu: i'm the only one here that's actually shot things btw ?
benkay: negatron.
ThickAsThieves: how dare you, knowing of my scarred upbringing!
ThickAsThieves: i shot things
mircea_popescu: that's good then.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: I have, then I married a vegetarian, now I have to do it on the sly
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i mean things with a pulse.
ThickAsThieves: ive skinned things alive
benkay: i've also done the dirty work of laying birds in the field.
ThickAsThieves: :/
mircea_popescu: fluffypony maybe you should marry ThickAsThieves and your blondie his.
fluffypony: hah hah
fluffypony: #bitcoin-assets...making swinging...interesting since April, 2012
ThickAsThieves: i dont think any live thing i shot at ever connected
ThickAsThieves: my dad had to take over
ThickAsThieves: he still does bow hunting
ThickAsThieves: he actually was a gundealer for a while
mod6: i shoot phesants every fall.
mod6: tasty too!
ThickAsThieves: ive killed many sea creatures though
ThickAsThieves: various methods
fluffypony: mod6: I read that as "I shoot peasants" and I was like "ooooh, he must live in Australia"
ThickAsThieves: lol
mod6: haha
mircea_popescu: Naphex here's a joke for you :
mircea_popescu: two gypsies doing crossword puzzle. "haoleo metal prehtios din patru litere minca
mircea_popescu: -ti-as"
mircea_popescu: *din trei litere
mircea_popescu: "haur!" "hala-i din patru mo!"
mircea_popescu: "fer"
Naphex: :))
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla:
mircea_popescu: ah lol davout http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=102 , i had _exactly_ (down to the number) the same argument << maybe you two should exchange wives for a summer ?
TomServo: and see who comes back with a better rating?
mircea_popescu: lol good one.
davout: TomServo: lol
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: well I suppose it's better than the "how come when you messaged that you love me you only put 2 exclamation marks when I put 4?" argument <<< you know, there's a relation between the welt count per butt and domestic bliss.
mircea_popescu: (if you're any good you can make them look like exclamation points, too)
kakobrekla: not looking so much for exchanging as to adding.
fluffypony: hah hah
mircea_popescu: (also notice that my comment was gender-neutral)
fluffypony: some prefer to bend, some prefer to send, I don't judge
mircea_popescu: moiety: voxer gives a location point on a map, thats even worse, i used to get "why were you not at your house?" << oi. ok that takes the fucking cake.
mircea_popescu: "because i felt like swallowing and i was fresh out of frozen splooge."
kakobrekla: http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/248
ozbot: Cryptology ePrint Archive: Report 2014/248
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: not only that
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: xen, for instance, emulates a NIC with... promiscuous mode
asciilifeform: why? ask it, not me
fluffypony: asciilifeform: ouch
asciilifeform: in general, 'don't install toilet in kitchen'
davout: mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPBy7XXmylo#t=170
chetty: asciilifeform, that sounds like a murican label
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i once rescued a damsel from a situation where her living space consisted of... kitchen. you could shower over the "toilet", and there was a small stove nearby.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ussr?
mircea_popescu: worse.
mircea_popescu: davout passed it along
asciilifeform: пааааартия ленинааааа!
kakobrekla: doesnt count, too easy, no effort.
davout: what do you mean?
mircea_popescu: davout i'm not the one that lost me A FORTUNE in bitcoinz
davout: aah i see
mircea_popescu: "MILK FUTURES RISE TO RECORD $24.29 PER 100 LBS IN CHICAGO. Who needs food anyway" << clearly, BingoBoingo isn't telling us everything.
mircea_popescu: sitting here scamming us about how he drinks hooch etc.
asciilifeform: milk from what species.
mircea_popescu: http://pando.com/2014/04/23/the-revolving-door-between-google-and-the-department-of-defense/
ozbot: The revolving door between Google and the Department of Defense | PandoDaily
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bos taurus ?
asciilifeform: that has to be cheaper
moiety: mircea_popescu: that was the tip of the iceberg with that dude, total idiot. also, shower/kitchen is better than no living space at all!
chetty: http://news.sky.com/story/1247985/raf-jet-chases-russian-planes-away-from-uk
ozbot: RAF Jet Chases Russian Planes Away From UK
mircea_popescu: moiety well, independence, you know ?
mircea_popescu: davout "technique and shit. i should've fucking figured that the french are going to pwn anything involving diddlage" ~mpoe-pr
mircea_popescu: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/quentin-tarantinos-lawsuit-against-gawker-thrown-out-of-court/ << lels.
davout: in which dictionary am i fucking supposed to look up "diddlage"
moiety: urban
asciilifeform: davout: dildonics
davout: ;;ud diddlage
gribble: Google found nothing.
asciilifeform: ;;ud dildonics
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dildonics | Probably a lot of lesbians have degrees in dildonics. Sometimes a fag named TJ sneaks in a warehouse and frolics around in a pile of dirty dildos. What a dildo.
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: dildonics
davout: bwah
moiety: !up Mats_cd03
assbot: Voicing Mats_cd03 for 30 minutes.
Mats_cd03: :D
Mats_cd03: moiety, you know, youre my favorite
fluffypony: ;;ud dildotics
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dildotics | Jan 13, 2008 ... dill-dod-iks; noun or adj. The science or study of dildos and the origin of their creation. Trademarked by Dildotics Incorporated, circa 2002. Adv..
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: dildotics
mircea_popescu: davout prolly the act of diddling.
mircea_popescu: ;;google to diddle
gribble: Urban Dictionary: diddle: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=diddle>; diddle - definition of diddle by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus ...: <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/diddle>; Diddle - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary: <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/diddle>
moiety: am i the only one that ups you or something Mats_cd03
davout: moiety: that sounds a little dirty
Mats_cd03: hey, this is only the second time
fluffypony: Mats_cd03: they say you never forget your first time
moiety: davout: dude, i never think about that shit before i hit enter. i do it all the damn time, sorry
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32383 @ 0.00095377 = 30.8859 BTC [-]
Mats_cd03: usually i pester benkay, but hes probably wasted and tryna molest a deer in the woods
moiety: benkay broke me in before kakobrekla showed me how to do it myself ;P
moiety: i do know how that sounded though lol
benkay: wat
benkay: oh a Mats_cd03
Naphex: balauru inseamna pacatul, preotii recomanda rugaciunile pentru a proteja animalele din ogara
Naphex: just heard on tv.
Naphex: only in romania
asciilifeform: !
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: https://openrigs.com/download/proposal.pdf << ditch the pdf srsly.
fluffypony: Naphex: translate plx, Google translate results are confusing
Mats_cd03: i can translate that
Mats_cd03: it has 'animal' in it, so he must be talking about animals
mircea_popescu: "dragon means sin, teh priests recomend prayer to protect domestic animals"
Naphex: fluffypony: its the same in romania
fluffypony: lol
Naphex: was on the news
benkay: har if only i'd had the pleasure of breaking you in, moiety
fluffypony: makes more sense than Google translate: "Balauru means sin, priests prayers recommend to protect animals from Greyhound"
asciilifeform: i must still be in me dream. perhaps i should go back & finish sinking the nazi sub.
mircea_popescu: lol greyhound
Naphex: hehe
kakobrekla: re openrigs . the whole things is a fad just like diy water cooling was a fad 10 or 15 years ago
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: isnt the "Bee" brand kinda taboo now? << very.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you gotta put the boards somewhere no ?
mircea_popescu is not a hardware guy.
asciilifeform: can't help but think of cleopatra's alleged diddlomat. glass, filled with bees.
Mats_cd03: wat
fluffypony: kakobrekla: that's fine, I'm not aiming to create a massive company that will be around forever, quite happy riding a wave, making money, and letting it wind down as we transition to the next thing
benkay: hey mircea_popescu and asciilifeform now that you've demo'd the cardano for the elite when do you start taking our btc for them?
fluffypony: as long as that wave is 5+ years and not 6 months
Mats_cd03: ive heard of gerbils, but this bees thing is new to me
fluffypony: Mats_cd03: Neo & Bee
mircea_popescu: benkay that's a good question.
Mats_cd03: ^re: cleopatra
moiety: will iget kicked for life if i say i thought the cardanos were cute?
asciilifeform: why does everybody love pre-orders so much ? so they can bitch when conveyor delay?
benkay: i said nothing about pre-orders, asciilifeform.
kakobrekla: actually its even worse, the goal of water cooling was to spend money and look good, the goal of rigs is to make money looking like an idiot
asciilifeform: ;;google cleopatra bee vibrator
gribble: The Bizarre History of the Vibrator: From Cleopatra's Angry Bees to ...: <http://gizmodo.com/5909857/the-bizarre-history-of-the-vibrator-from-cleopatras-angry-bees-to-steam-powered-dildos>; Cleopatra's sex toy made of bees - snopes.com: <http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=82547>; The Long, Strange History of Sex Toys | Alternet: <http://www.alternet.org/sex-amp- (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 485.18, Best ask: 487.0, Bid-ask spread: 1.82000, Last trade: 487.0, 24 hour volume: 6238.13274079, 24 hour low: 484.61, 24 hour high: 495.2, 24 hour vwap: 0
mircea_popescu: vwap 0 srsly ?
benkay: hahahahaha
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 314.59764223 * 485
gribble: 152579.856482
mircea_popescu: meanwhile brk-a is 190k
fluffypony: kakobrekla: well, it's also a cheaper proposition - our market isn't only people-with-$$$, the BOINC/Folding@Home crowd need better cooling than 20cm fans in an ATX case but they can't afford / don't want to spend money on water cooling or mineral oil immersion
asciilifeform: wanna show off, cool in Fluorinert.
fluffypony: but sure, in 5-10 years when GPUs are all mini-PCI-e size, it's different
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: it's purposely light on numbers <<< that's stupid.
mircea_popescu: benkay: the only thing that makes sense to actually pursue is the rack building thing, and that will live and die by whether or not you can land your asic partner. everything else is just like "woahaoaowwywowao i want to do all these different bitcoin things!" << undersigned.
Mats_cd03: https://soundcloud.com/mgmrecords/the-aston-shuffle-tear-it-down-gamper-dadoni-remix
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: actually, the only time i ever built a water-cooled machine, it was to get rid of the damnable fan hiss
Mats_cd03: 'lady music' if benkay is a judge
benkay: yup starts with a piano designed for tingles
Mats_cd03: im still butthurt you said that
Mats_cd03: there we go again
kakobrekla: asciilifeform i have build many but now i have a fan solution that is quieter than any pump.
benkay: ew wtf is this plinky plonk guitar
benkay: Mats_cd03: i have joins/parts turned off
benkay: so just msg me when you want up
benkay: although you gotta cut it out with this gay house/trance/whatever shit
benkay bobs head sarcastically
benkay: oh yeah baby
Mats_cd03 searches for something palatable
bounce: soundcloud keeps on finding ways to suck more
Mats_cd03: dat sax, though.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22350 @ 0.00095588 = 21.3639 BTC [+]
benkay: one of my normal haunts recently tried to play pandora plus in two separate locations in their joint
benkay: subjected everyone within earshot to endless "your pandora plus account is being used elsewhere"
kakobrekla: !l glbse yah
assbot: I don't give a shit who saw what and who did what or who did who.
benkay: basically guaranteed that nobody in that cafe will ever give pandora another damn dime.
kakobrekla: wasnt there a 'yah' thing ?
asciilifeform: for everyone's laughter:
asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/uE4oR6X
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
kakobrekla: asciilifeform but back in the day people were doing it mostly to show off and oc.
asciilifeform: circa 2000.
asciilifeform: brought this to dormitory on a wheelbarrow
Mats_cd03: such cool
benkay: epic, asciilifeform
asciilifeform: such fool!
asciilifeform: was i
kakobrekla: cpu only?
asciilifeform: nope
asciilifeform: everything
fluffypony: that's awesome
asciilifeform: still had a small case fan in there, for the rectifiers, etc
asciilifeform: many stories, this thing spawned
bounce: that's a clear case of not fscking around with the cooling
asciilifeform: toyota corolla.
bounce: what's in there though, a pI? how much heat does it produce?
kakobrekla: anyway, with todays tech you can get silence with air. i dont hear my box even if its on full load.
asciilifeform: this was a dual 'athlon'
asciilifeform: sent to scrapyard long ago.
fluffypony: I remember trying to watercool a peltier cooler on my Pentium
asciilifeform: actually, i gave the radiator to diametric
asciilifeform: he has it bolted to a co2 laser, i think
bounce: that's what, 2x40W tdp?
kakobrekla: we ripped the interior air heating radiators from cars
kakobrekla: way before you could buy stuff off shelf
asciilifeform: anyone who wants to build such a junker today, why, who knows. but use a 25mL test tube for fill port (drill bottom)
asciilifeform: (i worked in a lab in those days)
asciilifeform: this bugger was no show piece, meant as workhorse
asciilifeform: but rumours spread, and other kids came demanding to see it
asciilifeform: even girls
davout: mircea_popescu: "vwap 0 srsly ?" <<< where are the puts when you need them?
asciilifeform: 25uL
asciilifeform: fuck, still not awake
fluffypony: ;;rate los_pantalones 1 hooked a brother up with some cleverness
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
fluffypony: erk
asciilifeform: bounce: 2x40W << there was a gpu; also a massive scsi hdd
asciilifeform: the latter eventually caught fire
bounce: gpu in 2000? o_O?
bounce: heh
asciilifeform: very basic 'nvidia' thingie
asciilifeform: this machine never once touched winblows
asciilifeform: 'freebsd' until it went to the scrapyard.
bounce: freebsd 4 best freebsd
asciilifeform: aye
fluffypony: bounce: you never had a 3DFX Voodoo?
bounce: oh right. no, I didn't have fancy new hardware.
asciilifeform: in some ways, that beast was an experience
asciilifeform: wake up, check coolant level
asciilifeform: 'fuck, microscopic leak again'
fluffypony: lol
kakobrekla: hm i dont seem to have many pic from that era, but i was using this when i was 15 http://imgur.com/veyY8j9
kakobrekla: the cooling is not hooked up on the pic
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if i'd used that, some bugger'd have step in it.
fluffypony: kakobrekla: is that mirc?
kakobrekla: correct
kakobrekla: it was not the first or the last or the best but yea.
bounce: used a dual ppro for a while, though it wasn't mine and I had to give it back eventually.
mircea_popescu: Naphex, if you love me do the following thing :
asciilifeform: what can compare to slipping a 'drowned' video board (all-snow display) into a chum's box at night.
mircea_popescu: on the page where one can submit documents to be verified, add a link to a textfile constructed as gpg -export-pubkey -a | gpg --clearsign -a
mircea_popescu: and add a simple html form where i can dump my files as a gpg -r -a
Naphex: mircea_popescu: will do
mircea_popescu: this substantially improves your security and helps a lot of things
Naphex: ill add it to tasks, i like the idea
mircea_popescu: if you're concerned about getting spammed simply make a sensible limit per upload (5mb ?) and only keep one record per account (the last)
mircea_popescu: so you auto-overwrite by resubmitting
Naphex: all uploada are limited
mircea_popescu: so there.
Naphex: yep. i'll add it. i like gpg
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.51991795 = 1.5598 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: i like people one doesn't have to argue with.
mircea_popescu: ;;ident Naphex
gribble: Nick 'Naphex', with hostmask 'Naphex!~naphex@btcxchange.ro', is not identified.
mircea_popescu: Naphex well if you like gpg add a gpg sig to gribble wot so i can get your pubkey.
davout: Naphex: since when is your exchange up?
Naphex: davout: around december
mircea_popescu: !up LeMarkz
assbot: Voicing LeMarkz for 30 minutes.
davout: open outside romania too ?
Naphex: mircea_popescu: i will. only have special keys for docs and ndas
Naphex: and other unrelated
mircea_popescu: so make another i guess ?
kakobrekla: Naphex you only deal with ro people?
dexX7: in the case one of you uses bitcoinjs: https://gist.github.com/dcousens/7a54e59a98e445c5ec2f
fluffypony: lawl, wife has fallen asleep watching Numbers
fluffypony plans pranks
mircea_popescu: undies on head ?
kakobrekla: forehead dick doh
fluffypony: hah hah
Naphex: kakobrekla: ron is the only fiat atm
Naphex: but you can withdar eur
kakobrekla: yeah but im from somalia
Naphex: and get soke bank conversion fees
kakobrekla: can i register?
Naphex: probably
fluffypony: somalia is best somalia
kakobrekla: perhaps ill try
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla or you could register a ro corp like sane ppls.
kakobrekla: what is it with you and corps, you speak of it like a hobby
mircea_popescu: it's a profession.
mircea_popescu: the profession is called "businessman"
Naphex: switched back to pc
kakobrekla: hey i never claimed to be one
kakobrekla: anyway i dun think its opening of corps that makes you a biz man
Naphex: kakobrekla: so RON/BTC is the only pair atm, with EUR,others to come soon while we still work some stuff out.
Naphex: we have sepa so you can withdraw eur, with way bigger fees
Naphex: same day delivery in romania though, so primary market
kakobrekla: its just side effect, not a pleasant one
kakobrekla: k Naphex .
mircea_popescu: http://mpex.co/ << everyone pls to notice the upcoming section.
asciilifeform: MPIF ?
kakobrekla: he puts jokes in that box
mircea_popescu: mpif.
mircea_popescu: this one is fo realz.
davout: mircea popescovitch investment fund?
kakobrekla: a real joke.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller can i pay you to send davout a cookie ?
davout: Naphex: what's your plan regarding financial regulation?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: due today what time?
Naphex: https://bitcoinaverage.com/markets.htm#RON woot :D
ozbot: World Currency Markets | BitcoinAverage
Naphex: first listing ;]
mircea_popescu: fluffypony today the 24th :D
fluffypony: oh lol
Naphex: davout: i'm not the best to ask about financial stuff. but therese lawyers, and accountants and other people
davout: mircea_popescu: send half a bitcoin, that'll do just fine
fluffypony: thank goodness, I'd like to sleep tonight
mircea_popescu: davout i had neh ?
Naphex: davout: from the little i understand, its mostly sorted and all authorities consulted
mircea_popescu: oouf, you want THE OTHER HALF ?!
asciilifeform: in usa, even the professionally sad can register a corp.
davout: i mean another one :D
asciilifeform: many do
davout: mircea_popescu: already rated you for it! you get 4 nao
mircea_popescu: shit look at that.
mircea_popescu: nao kako ain't never gunna catch up.
davout: Naphex: doesn't really look it
kakobrekla: one day imma gonna link you to taht -pr post that sez its not all in the sum
Naphex: davout: what do you mean?
asciilifeform: 'it's not the height of the tower, but the amount of power.'
mircea_popescu: BCB has > 1024 total holy shit.
benkay: !up thestringpuller
assbot: Voicing thestringpuller for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: i'm like #39 biggest number.
numerisTrade: mircea_popescu, you will not share any details before having them posted there, will you? :)
davout: Naphex: i mean it's usually required from corps that handle fiat funds on behalf of third parties to be financially registered, which doesn't appear to be the case
numerisTrade: that is, regarding S.MPIF
mircea_popescu: numerisTrade ima make a trilema post first.
numerisTrade: gonna have to be patient, then
Naphex: davout: not sure how to answer that, or if a financiall registration is required. but all is operating completly legally
Naphex: by Romanian law
mircea_popescu: Naphex who;s the gc ?
Naphex: gc?
mircea_popescu: general counsel
mircea_popescu: the head of the legal dept.
Naphex: lawyer firm
asciilifeform: lol, my first thought was 'garbage collector'
Naphex: bucharest
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform get used to it, gc is what a cto of law is called.
mircea_popescu: Naphex that can't be a gc, it has to be a corp officer. he can hire whoever, but ultimately signs off on it.
davout: mircea_popescu Naphex i'm afraid lawyers don't have a lot of clues when dealing with bitcoin, iirc gox had baker & mc kenzie
mircea_popescu: davout only after being raped by usg.
davout: didn't prevent them from being buttraped on multiple legal accts
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 5 @ 0.14 = 0.7 BTC
davout: mircea_popescu: before as well iirc
mircea_popescu: and only because the two idiot investors who had enough sense that they shouldn't have been invested in the first place insisted.
mircea_popescu: which specifically excludes ver
Naphex: well all is clear atm
Naphex: and bank relations are great
Naphex: and everyone can do whatever they do best
mircea_popescu: you still need a gc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15600 @ 0.00095588 = 14.9117 BTC [+]
fluffypony: or a gf
Naphex: got a gf :]
davout: Naphex: your banking relationship may be great, but as soon as you handle someone else's fiat by opening them an account, allowing them to cash in and out, you need a financial registration
thestringpuller: davout: what kind of cookies you want?
BingoBoingo: TomServo: Problem resolved. Literally stepped on it.
Naphex: so thats sorted
thestringpuller: chocolate chip! cool.
davout: thestringpuller: chocolate chip is cool
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: stepped on it with butt of mosin?
asciilifeform: or bayonet
Naphex: davout: there is no _need_ for it atm.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There's also a deadly form of porcine mega shits killing off the pork here
Naphex: what financial registration are you reffering to? does one exist?;o
Naphex: https://www.btcxchange.ro/about
ozbot: btcXchange.ro - The first Bitcoin exchange in Romania
Naphex: the firm is registerd, and registration printed
davout: that's something different
davout: look up the european payments service directive
Naphex: don't do law:[
davout: the easiest is a payments service provider license
Naphex: sorry davout, can't answer much on that field.
davout: Naphex: tbh i like that answer much better than "all is fine we don't need one" :-)
Naphex: davout: thats as far as i know lol
Naphex: also i'm paid to code the stuff up. and make sure it doesn't get owned.
mircea_popescu: Naphex well so pass teh issue along.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Stepped on it with show. Also the mouse was actuall a mouse. Was skittering around the garage while I was trying to IRC and smoke cigarettes in it.
davout: how big's your team ?
Naphex: mircea_popescu: i will tomorrow :P
Naphex: davout: 6
davout: that's good
Naphex: with more but on different projects
Naphex: there'se 3 more working on a bitcoin atm
jurov: benkay: i'm offering some s.nsa shares at bargain ( 0.00029 )
davout: do a simple test, ask the legal person, or whatever lawyer you have the following question : "do we need some sort of financial license to do what we do?"
jurov: that ask won't stay long there
benkay: !l mpex s.nsa
assbot: Last trade for S.NSA on MPEX was at 0.00016371 BTC [+]
davout: if the answer is something along the lines of "no, because bitcoin isn't regulated", then you should run awat
jurov: if you feel like investing
benkay: !t m s.nsa
assbot: [MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.000146 / 0.00016372 / 0.00018 (27190 shares, 4.45 BTC), 30D: 0.000146 / 0.0001634 / 0.00018 (28341 shares, 4.63 BTC)
davout: s/awat/away/
Naphex: davout: that question i've asked. and thats the answer I received. That by Romanian law everything required we have to operate.
Naphex: now don't know the specifics. but i will foward the european payment systems thingie, and see what answer comes
davout: Naphex: basically, the idea is that bitcoin isn't the issue,
Naphex: no fiat withdrawals/deposits
benkay: how is that a bargain at all, jurov ?!
davout: you could trade potatoes it wouldn't make anything different
davout: "no fiat withdrawals/deposits" << what?
Naphex: are the issue
Naphex: :P
davout: the issue is on the fiat side
davout: yeah
jurov: bankay they're worth much more
benkay: dude
mike_c: !l mpex s.nsa
assbot: Last trade for S.NSA on MPEX was at 0.00016371 BTC [+]
jurov: once the word goes out
mike_c: hm, that is not right.
davout: Naphex: allrighty, have fun looking it all up :D
mike_c: assbot should be better at that than anyone.
jurov: !depth m s.nsa
davout: !l mpex s.nsa
assbot: Last trade for S.NSA on MPEX was at 0.00016371 BTC [+]
fluffypony: http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/we_are_the_internet_resistance_is_futile.png
jurov: assbot got no depth
mircea_popescu: i think it uses the average
davout: mike_c jurov don't panic, it's actually mpex that's all upside down, assbot is fine
davout: XD
mircea_popescu: actual last trade was X, but actual last trade AS REPORTED by assbot is y
asciilifeform: once the word goes out << i'ma confused one here.
davout: fluffypony: LOL
asciilifeform: must be teh jetlag
mircea_popescu: assbot:
mircea_popescu: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 27190 @ 0.00016371 = 4.4513 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: like so
jurov: asciilifeform: i think nobody knows yet about cardano outside of our little circle
asciilifeform: not like it's secret.
jurov: i dun see any luddite journo interns asking about it
fluffypony: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=581679.0 <- new scamcoin called GuarantCoin, "100% backed by physical gold, every single coin has certain value in gold and can be exchanged for gold anytime"
ozbot: [ANN][GTC] GUARANTCOIN
asciilifeform: satan preserve me from the journo interns.
fluffypony: my favourite line in it: "This ensures lowest value of the coin, the exchange price will be different, most likely higher"
jurov: right, hire satan as PR
jurov: if mp can have pet manticore, why not?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you happen to have a loglink to where i propositioned you to do atc investment for me ?
asciilifeform: i'm pretty certain the buggers will come straight to my door, come the hour.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not offhand
mircea_popescu: recall date ?
BingoBoingo: It was pretty soon after I took herbi's ATC and BTC
mircea_popescu: yo umean before ?
BingoBoingo: Yeah, Oh February 16th-ish is when it started
asciilifeform: manticore?! i must still be on the german submarine
mike_c: hehe, guarantcoin comment: "Looks good; Nice logo as well."
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-02-2014#504761
mircea_popescu: there's that on 15th
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
TestingUnoDosTre: #bitcoin-assets secrets
BingoBoingo: Oh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30200 @ 0.0009547 = 28.8319 BTC [-]
jurov: ;;google "the Bitcoin Manticore"
gribble: Ca tot… sa tras tot sa fumat tot sa baut tot cum e peste tot ... - Trilema: <http://trilema.com/2014/ca-tot-s-a-tras-tot-s-a-fumat-tot-s-a-baut-tot-cum-e-peste-tot-la-fel-ca-peste-tot/>; Clif High Wujo Feb.14. 2014 - Bitcoin, Mt Gox, bankers - Part 1 ...: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGEWvuhkEl8>; Video: Roundup of This Week's Bitcoin News 14th March 2014 ...: (1 more message)
asciilifeform: lol that's the one with me making faces, isn't it
fluffypony: mike_c: the comments are a cesspool of stupidity..."Wow! Finally coin with the future!"
mike_c: well, most of them are socks. but yes, very amusing.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-wunderbar-smpif/
ozbot: The wunderbar S.MPIF pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform: neato
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.0009543 = 20.7083 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: !up phish
assbot: Voicing phish for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: I wonder who all is getting tapped for S.MPIF
mircea_popescu: well you're one.
BingoBoingo: Of course.
BingoBoingo: The hangover suggested it would be a good idea
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0683931 = 0.342 BTC [+]
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: don't forget to hydrate
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: The hangover's over
fluffypony: good to hear :)
BingoBoingo: I wouldn't be where I am today without the ability to swiftly dispatch a hangover
mircea_popescu: ;;ident kakobrekla
gribble: Nick 'kakobrekla', with hostmask 'kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla', is identified as user 'kakobrekla', with GPG key id 27AF75321F2489E8, key fingerprint 27C3CE9A20851312F086268C27AF75321F2489E8, and bitcoin address None
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: likewise...I just find myself way too unproductive for the first ~4 hours after waking up if I'm hanging like a little bitch
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32400 @ 0.00095197 = 30.8438 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 90 @ 0.0618981 = 5.5708 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.0678 = 0.339 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 78 @ 0.00482011 = 0.376 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 24 @ 0.00518408 = 0.1244 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: http://pandodaily.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/singersm1.jpg << fiattalks.org butthurt
Naphex: gn o/
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Still no reply from srgexpert
mircea_popescu: whossat again ?
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2012/the-patrick-harnett-saga-continues/
ozbot: The Patrick Harnett saga continues pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
BingoBoingo: ?
mircea_popescu: ah
fluffypony: http://pando.com/2014/04/23/startups-anonymous-things-founders-say-to-investors-that-are-complete-bs/
ozbot: Startups Anonymous: Things founders say to investors that are complete BS | PandoDaily
fluffypony: “My cofounder turned down a job at Google to focus on our company.” Translation: He applied for an internship a while back and it fell through.
fluffypony: can we file that with the "world class mathematicians" involved in every cryptocurrency-related project?
mircea_popescu: im looking for the world class submarines.
mircea_popescu: > typhoon class.
asciilifeform: lol
fluffypony: lol
asciilifeform: miningboot?
benkay: miningboot!
asciilifeform: i could easily live in one, and not notice.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are you this Arlyn Culwick fellow and trolling me ?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: plz sort creditsout noa
fluffypony: *credits out
bounce: you more or less missed a chance to snag a few subs for essentially free down in the crimea
fluffypony: asciilifeform: https://scontent-b-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/10169256_799974603356886_8876868538876731843_n.jpg
bounce: I'd buy into that.
mircea_popescu: flushed.
fluffypony: thank you kindly
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: nice pic
mircea_popescu: so do they fight the impedance or what ?
fluffypony: hah hah
bounce: fighting the current, technically
bounce: dissipating the power
jurov: as soon as the current starts to change, parasite reactances appear
mircea_popescu: lol
bounce: so what is the resistance and what the impedance of... the local beach?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31262 @ 0.00095093 = 29.728 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: khersonus http://blog.khersonus.com/2014/time-value-of-money/ not bad.
mircea_popescu: benkay http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/04/16_erc-wot-integration-such-gift.html can you explain this to me ?
bounce: you need to speka lisp-a to understand-a
mircea_popescu: aokl
mircea_popescu: !up davide
assbot: Voicing davide for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: "Additionally, algorithms from the NSA are considered a sort of alien technology: they come from a superior race with no explanations."
mircea_popescu: gotta love how schneier sticks these psy-ops little turds in everything he writes.
bounce: though the real question is, is that a /signed/ tag?
mircea_popescu: yo, bruce, wakeup call : the nsa is about as fucktartded as you are. srsly.
bounce: actually, no. they employ a fsckton of mathematicians and they know everything that's in the open plus an unspecified amount we don't know about. best guess (last I heard) was that they're about five years ahead of the open community with the research
mircea_popescu: bounce nonsense.
bounce: you can see how that works in, say, DES, where the NSA suggested stuff that turned out to be resistant to a type of attack not known publically at the time DES was finalised
mircea_popescu: if spending money solved problems the phoenician empire'd still be a thing.
mircea_popescu: nobody is denying a lot of smart people work for the nsa.
mircea_popescu: heck, a lot of smart people worked for microsoft, and alcatel, and whatever other pointless dinosaur. adobe.
mircea_popescu: that does not make ADOBE smart. at all.
mircea_popescu: for all the brilliant russians living in the 70s, the ussr was dumb as rocks.
bounce: yeah, but we're not talking NSA as a whole. we're talking the stuff that comes out of there in the form of algorithms
mircea_popescu: it's not clear why this reclassification'd be useful to your position.
Apocalyptic: "best guess (last I heard) was that they're about five years ahead of the open community with the research" that may have been accurate a few years ago
Apocalyptic: i don't believe it's the case nowadays
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic it was perhaps accurate in the 90s.
Apocalyptic: sounds reasonable
mircea_popescu: as the things stand right now, they never had an internal bitcoin,
mircea_popescu: and we wiped their heartbleed.
mircea_popescu: and while we know what they don't know, they don't know what we know.
mircea_popescu: which... you know.
Apocalyptic: a possible explanation may be that cryptography as a field wasn't that broad in academia back then
bounce: still, they know what we know plus a bunch we don't know much about. we don't know how big it is, we don't know what it does. for that reason you have to be careful with their "gifts". that's the point he's making.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1927 @ 0.0001357 = 0.2615 BTC [+] {3}
fluffypony: bed time, bye
dexX7: good night
mircea_popescu: <bounce> still, they know what we know plus a bunch << this is strictly false.
bounce: show how.
mircea_popescu: because you imagine perfect knowledge ("everyone publishes everything they know and everyone reads it all") to get your result
mircea_popescu: this is not at all how teh community works.
mircea_popescu: anyway. i know what he's pretending he's trying to say, but that ain't at all what he;s saying. what he's saying is "resistence is futile", that's the message, and it's a ridiculous.
bounce: that's not how I read it
mircea_popescu: now without offense, let me just propose to you as a theory that it's possible you'd not know how you read it. in the same sense advertising works.
bounce: wouldn't surprise me if the NSA has everyone with a little crypto knowledge on watchlists just to see the privately-circulating papers
mircea_popescu: sure.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 45 @ 0.00509 = 0.2291 BTC [-]
bounce: I think you're reaching with that line of reasoning. I know how I read it and I disagree with how you read it. I will allow that a-priori notions on either side (or both) might have something to do with the interpretation.
mircea_popescu: well that's as far as it can possibly go huh
bounce: you might ask him which he ment, and why. :-)
mircea_popescu: i might as well ask obama if he really meant i can keep my insurance.
bounce: c'mon, cook up a nice 20 questions to finnagle the truth out of oracle schneier
mircea_popescu: he'd be insulted
bounce: and you care about that, how? o_O?
mircea_popescu: that's the trick with "being insulted" : it affords plausible deniability to they who don't want to have the truth extracted.
mircea_popescu: well i don't care, but he'd stop answering.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37550 @ 0.00095066 = 35.6973 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: anyway, re your "you're reaching" comment, i told a story at teh conference that should prolly be on the record.
mircea_popescu: so, as kids, one party game was to whistle into an old, low baud modem. they were slow enough that it was still sort-of feasible. the game was, who gets the modem going for longer thinking it's got a sane modem on the other end
mircea_popescu: (trivial to observe when it noticed you're human because of the very distinctive "error pls to start over" tone"
mircea_popescu: i believe that's really the model for all communication.
bounce: doing a little survey among cryptographers of name with how and at what size they assess the NSA's knowledge advandage, if any, might be interesting. doing it every couple years maybe even moreso.
bounce: I don't think all communication is quite that lopsided, to be honest.
mircea_popescu: ils ne se servent de la pensée que pour autoriser leurs injustices, et emploient les paroles que pour déguiser leurs pensées
mircea_popescu: bounce how do you mean lopsided ?
bounce: then again, much of it isn't quite so very good either.
mircea_popescu: what i meant was strictly this, that your particular response matched what i may have accepted as proof that you indeed may know how you read it.
bounce: possibly. :-)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28700 @ 0.00095123 = 27.3003 BTC [+] {2}
bounce: lopsided isn't really the word. somehow a better word eludes me for the moment.
mircea_popescu: "Error getting file: -1: Unspecified error"
mircea_popescu: for the love of the error god ;/
bounce: context? wild guess says using fn return instead of errno like it should've been used
mircea_popescu: old proprietary camera.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00095161 = 10.8484 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.512 = 1.024 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: Culwick wtf what?
mircea_popescu: this dude arguing metaphysics with me
asciilifeform: nein, i'm still trying to wake up from me beautiful dreamz.
asciilifeform: 'Had it been a dream? It was still worth it! ... Now he had to think about his own survival. With the aid of his wrist geiger he found a deactivated lane through the rubble. He’d better get back to the shelter before dark, before the rats came out. If he didn’t hurry he’d miss the evening potato ration.'
asciilifeform: (robert sheckley's 'store of the worlds' - www.e-reading.ws/txt.php/1000018/Sheckley_-_The_Store_Of_The_Worlds.txt)
asciilifeform: re: nsa crypto:
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1323
ozbot: Loper OS » A Country of Which Nothing is Known but the Name.
asciilifeform: (musings on the 'smart nsa' hypothesis, i know)
asciilifeform: exercise in 'intelligence with open sources'
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.51999999 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: more seriously, virtually nothing re: cryptology from the era preceding modern computing is worth terribly much.
mircea_popescu: so on the very good news front, i've already lined up 4 managers for s.mpif, whole shebang nominally worth a little north of 170 btc atm.
asciilifeform: the americans really fucked themselves. 'why bother being strong, let's make everyone weak.' they somehow kept most of the planet using rotor (!) crypto machines through the '70s!
asciilifeform: ;;google CryptoAG
gribble: Crypto AG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG>; Schneier on Security: NSA Backdoors in Crypto AG Ciphering ...: <https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/nsa_backdoors_i.html>; Crypto AG: <http://www.crypto.ch/>
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform funny you should mention crypto ag
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15625 @ 0.00095284 = 14.8881 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: because...well... they use the mpex shareholding model.
mircea_popescu: apparently this is possible in fiat just fine. whodda thunk it.
asciilifeform: phun phact. cryptoag still exists! and used by diplomats, etc. how to explain? only theory i can think of is that folks deliberately buy into the crapola - as a gesture of doggy submission to usa
asciilifeform: this is possible in fiat just fine << various 'impossibles' are quite possible when they must.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.06792804 = 0.4755 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.06869835 = 0.5496 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: right. what's "impossible" is just admitting mp has the power to make the impossible quite possible.
mike_c: mircea_popescu: will piffy managers and projects be announced?
mircea_popescu: mike_c of course.
mircea_popescu: prolly tomorrow, actually.
mike_c: follow up question: is BingoBoingo all 4 managers? ;)
mircea_popescu: nope. just 1.
asciilifeform: the power to make the impossible quite possible << Führerprinzip, the elixir of shit getting done.
mircea_popescu: mike_c actually i'll bet you a certain pizza you won't be able to guess all 4.
mike_c: hmm
mircea_popescu: you get a list as long as you wish, provided you publish it by tomorrow.
mike_c: i hate to turn down action, but feels like a tough wager. there are a lot of people i don't know.
mircea_popescu: im known for my tough wagers and an almost fanatical devotion to the poke.
mircea_popescu: ;;rated mike_c
gribble: You rated user mike_c on Tue Mar 25 20:15:55 2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: blogger, dev.
jurov: soooo... should i stay up to add S.MPIF to coinbr or it can wait?
mircea_popescu: jurov can wait, the contract'll be up at a sane time, but in a few days.
mircea_popescu: and trading will open after anyway
jurov: gut
BingoBoingo: I'm kind of curious what other markets S.MPIF is going to venture into
mircea_popescu: i'll bet you you won't be able to guess all 4.
mircea_popescu: same deal.
asciilifeform: smpif sounds neat but too big for me puny brain.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually it's devilishly simple. you'll see after a few monthly reports.
asciilifeform: arbitrobots?
mircea_popescu: nop.
mircea_popescu: no robots. unlike the alex chick i'm an ACTUAL luddite. i use people.
mike_c: buying houses in ohio?
mircea_popescu: nop.
kakobrekla: mike_c in argentina
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I prefer meat bot to describe my role in this
mircea_popescu: no, there's no real estate at all.
mike_c: lol. argentina house flipping!
mircea_popescu: this makes it fair for BingoBoingo, seeing how mike_c also knew 1.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: no shame in this. atm i'm doing things chinese robogirls won't do
mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu is known for turning people into robots.
mircea_popescu: sieg hail.
mircea_popescu: also, http://oglaf.com/porkchisel/
asciilifeform: 'i am bender, please insert girder.' ('futurama')
asciilifeform: shame that arbitrobots appear to be a dead field. the modus operandi of mine, for instance, was to root out and autorape other bots.
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: never bothered to make it airworthy, though, so it's a boring tale.
asciilifeform: it was, at one point (laugh, sure) intended to play on... gox.
asciilifeform: i lost interest in the project >1yr ago, when i realized that i won't be selling so much as 1 btc while i live here.
benkay: amen
mircea_popescu: not a bad policy.
asciilifeform: people still say 'martian'
asciilifeform: glad the chicoms happily take bezollars. (for now.)
asciilifeform: or i'd have to etch boards again, like when student.
asciilifeform: (and eat wildlife)
kakobrekla: local companies?
BingoBoingo: Much of the best food is wildlife
kakobrekla: i have two low-mid series pcb manufacturers in 5km radius
mircea_popescu: sooo!
mircea_popescu: this is the highest linecount since forever
mircea_popescu: 2.) fluffypony 1247 3.) assbot 1211 << africans and their long peens.
BingoBoingo: Imma have to guess the S.MPIF markets are BTC/USD, BTC/Typhoon submarines, BTC/Uranium, and BTC/Human Souls
asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/UvspIIq,CqpmXCx,p2ExGTe,qAcmmpX,SJ3lCpM,avlxgmG,dr2NHfE,3yeBuFm
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
mike_c: hm, there has got to be an arbitrage loop on btc/usd/human souls
mircea_popescu: Humanity was almost extinguished, their spirits becoming part of the background radiation that blanketed the earth.
mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/embed/pXMnRaSkkp4
ozbot: Fallout 2 Intro (1998) - YouTube
asciilifeform: 'the man who loved the faioli' !
asciilifeform: http://www.lib.ru/ZELQZNY/TheManWhoLovedTheFaioli.txt
asciilifeform: (or maybe not. but i was damn sure that was in there)
BingoBoingo: "From 1985 to 1989 Williamson worked at Nicolet Instruments in Madison, Wisconsin where he was the primary author on two digital hearing aid patents."
BingoBoingo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffie%E2%80%93Hellman_key_exchange
BingoBoingo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/74896762@N00/3167352760/
ozbot: amniotic sac | Flickr - Photo Sharing
asciilifeform: earlier link was steam plant in Timis.
BingoBoingo: Ah, cool
asciilifeform: 0400 hour, monday
asciilifeform: hieronymous bosch apparently lives there.
BingoBoingo: Amazing how in the US Steam plants are generally just a University thing and yet every on campus steam plant I've seen has been as boring as shit.
asciilifeform: on account of boschlessness.
asciilifeform: re: Faioli << recommended to all aficionados of pet manticores.
asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/KSmZQ69
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
asciilifeform: ^ sherlock holmes.
benkay: lysergic precursors are strictly controlled, whaddaya expect?
asciilifeform: let them control carbon.
asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/SLpTRCm
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
asciilifeform: ^ femei
asciilifeform: (clicked? admit, lustful buggers)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5425 @ 0.00095286 = 5.1693 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: well i hadn't, but if you insist
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: was that the abandoned urinal ?
asciilifeform: menstrual.
mircea_popescu: here's the story of the blessings of lobbyism
mircea_popescu: romania had, in all cities, proper urinals built all over town. the whole shebang, with running water.
mircea_popescu: dumbass firm started importing the 2mc bullshits, with chemical "processing"
mircea_popescu: and got kickback-based contracts to "supply" the city.
mircea_popescu: as a result, all the proper urinals are nao destroyed.
asciilifeform: ugh
mircea_popescu: because well.... they can't compete, because they solve a problem rather than grooming it with dysfunctional non-solutions, and so have nothing to kick back.
asciilifeform: classic
asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/RL9x21p
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
asciilifeform: ^ femei, for real
mircea_popescu: now... explain to me again how teh nsa is 5 years ahead of my penis.
benkay: to further our discussion of economies: http://falkenblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/batesian-mimicry-explanation-of.html
kakobrekla: o looky
kakobrekla: davout asciilifeform
kakobrekla: http://flappy2048.com
kakobrekla: also mike_c and whoever else
mike_c: fuck, there goes my evening.
asciilifeform: defunct ?
kakobrekla: works here
asciilifeform: ehehe, flash
mircea_popescu: "In an expansion investors are constantly looking for better places to invest their capital, while entrepreneurs are always overconfident, hoping to get capital to fund their restless ambition. Sometimes, the investors (dupes) think a certain set of key characteristics are sufficient statistics of a quality investment because historically they were. Mimic entrepreneurs seize upon these key characteristics that will all
mircea_popescu: ow them to garner funds from the duped investors. "
benkay: Once the number of mimics is sufficiently high, their valueless enterprises become too conspicuous and they no longer pass off as legitimate investments.
mircea_popescu: benkay a good theory which requires dupes to have a functioning ganglion.
benkay: (quotes, etc)
mircea_popescu: they... don't, mostly.
asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/VZ8jZkP
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
benkay: no but they have shitloads of cash
asciilifeform: ^ statute to the unknown lamer
asciilifeform: *statue
mircea_popescu: Your browser is not compatible with this site. Sorry :( << kakobrekla wtf bs!
kakobrekla: anyway it involved different kind of brain power than the 2048
kakobrekla: much less actual thinking
kakobrekla: mp you know just scammin around
kakobrekla: anyway i just thought it was rele-tarded enough to post.
mircea_popescu: "AllAdvantage was a website that paid members to surf the Net. It paid to acquire these users, and supposedly leveraged its members’ eyeballs into advertizing dollars. At the initial fundraiser internet capitalist Frank Quattrone, who helped fund Cisco and many other legitimate successful concerns, and President Clinton both paid tribute to AllAdvantage"
mircea_popescu: muy true
mircea_popescu: i wish the falk joined hiar.
benkay: "For example, subsequent to the 1990 Commercial Real Estate debacle, defaults in this asset class were well below average across the board for the subsequent decade. In the aftermath of that crisis, newly issued Commercial Real Estate Asset Backed securities did very well, because everyone was especially cognizant of the risk factors involved. A similar thing happened in railroads after the Penn Central railroad defaulted in the early
benkay: 1970s. Fooled once, investors were not fooled again in that specific way, making the key risky asset characteristic of the latest recession a metric of safety going forward."
asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/32Hn20X
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
asciilifeform: ^ this is posted for a reason
benkay: if only the forum knew its own history.
asciilifeform: and not simply because this toilet is bigger than my living room
mircea_popescu: sadly blog is pretty much abandoned
asciilifeform: me grandpa (physicist) first encountered a bidet in vienna
asciilifeform: in '45.
asciilifeform: he went 'fuck, this place has 2 shitters'
kakobrekla: lol
asciilifeform: and of course deposited in the smaller one
mircea_popescu: bidets are great. can't keep young women w/o em
asciilifeform: commander made him clean it out. with matchsticks.
asciilifeform: i've never seen one in person previously.
asciilifeform: but at least i knew grandfather's fate.
mircea_popescu: but see, suppose you wanna eat her out. what do you do ? full shower ? sink acrobatics ?
asciilifeform: lolmatic
benkay: plenty of material left.
asciilifeform: we all wanna have 'timisoara problems'
asciilifeform: vs. finding a deactivated path through the rubble with wrist geiger...
asciilifeform: (other grandpa, field hospital, not sure he ever saw bidet until died)
asciilifeform: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7083969/1/The-Vienna-Offensive
ozbot: The Vienna Offensive, a hetalia - axis powers fanfic | FanFiction
asciilifeform: ^ this exists.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00095034 = 3.9914 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7225 @ 0.00095192 = 6.8776 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.06869835 = 0.8931 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00095226 = 7.7133 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/04/rip-mike-ruppert.html
ozbot: ClubOrlov: RIP Mike Ruppert
asciilifeform: ^ one of the original collapse blog folks took the Colt-45 Retirement Plan.
asciilifeform: (here in usa, the Colt Pension, Life & Health Insurance Co. is doing brisk business.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12750 @ 0.00095588 = 12.1875 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.51029099 = 1.0206 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6975 @ 0.00095496 = 6.6608 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00095481 = 10.5984 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: forum investors: http://i.imgur.com/BGEedbu.gif
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00095588 = 11.2794 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.0425 = 0.2125 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.032 = 0.16 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.0742218 = 0.3711 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.0425 = 0.2125 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.031998 = 0.16 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.0742218 = 0.4453 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.04185166 = 0.2511 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.03199 = 0.16 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.0742218 = 0.3711 BTC [-]
dexX7: anyone from bitcoindoc.com here?
mike_c: higher numbers of crackers
mod6: haha kako
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> i'll bet you you won't be able to guess all 4. // i likes me a challenge
ThickAsThieves: bingo, davout, uhhh i'm drunk
ThickAsThieves: pankakke, apocalyptic
ThickAsThieves: switch apoc for jurov
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.51990652 = 1.0398 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 30 @ 0.0048 = 0.144 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: i will take my prize in atc
ThickAsThieves: thanks
ThickAsThieves: appl doing a 7-1 stock split? unexpected!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4241 @ 0.00095552 = 4.0524 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8458 @ 0.00095445 = 8.0727 BTC [-] {2}
dexX7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=000al7ru3ms
bitcoinpete: so many logs, so many logs, so many logs, hey hey hey
bitcoinpete: oooo mpif...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8040 @ 0.00095507 = 7.6788 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 1 @ 0.14 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.07499998 = 0.15 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3819 @ 0.00095507 = 3.6474 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1550 @ 0.00095546 = 1.481 BTC [+]
bitcoinpete: http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/04/23/us-apple-dow-index-idINKBN0D91AJ20140423 <<AAPL 7:1 split, dividend bump, 50% bigger buyback... and i sold 'em all a year ago to the day
ozbot: Apple slice: Share split makes joining the Dow more likely
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8524 @ 0.00095363 = 8.1287 BTC [-] {3}
bitcoinpete: shoulda noticed ThickAsThieves...
bitcoinpete: .d
ozbot: 6.979 billion | Next Diff in 956 blocks | Estimated Change: 14.3790% in 5d 16h 22m 14s
bitcoinpete: ;;later tell kakobrekla thanks for the link and the lmao forum investors gif!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ThickAsThieves: the lesson with the stocks is
ThickAsThieves: every price comes twice
ThickAsThieves: tech stocks*
ThickAsThieves: i learned this the hard way with netflix
ThickAsThieves: glad i held my appl
ThickAsThieves: sold my goog at peak
ThickAsThieves: and tsla is a fun ride

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