Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-02-01 | 2014-02-03 → ↓
Vexual: its not unreasonably slow sir
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43851 @ 0.00093235 = 40.8845 BTC [-]
Vexual: in two teths of the time it takes an a 380 to fly round the world you could be to cuba and back
Vexual: provided you set out from the modern spanish main
Vexual: or just roll around in the pacific and its all cool
Vexual: ive seen the rooster tail off one of those nuke subs and ill tell you they are well fast even on the surface
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26966 @ 0.00093421 = 25.1919 BTC [+] {3}
herbijudlestoids: has anyone heard of reggie middletons ultra coin, not to be confused with ultracoin the altcoin?
herbijudlestoids: something like zerocoin i guess
Duffer1: i haven't been able to read the altcoin forums since coingen came out
KRS1: herbijudlestoids: I'd like to know more about that screenshot
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 992 @ 0.000405 = 0.4018 BTC [-] {4}
herbijudlestoids: KRS1: from what i understand its using zero trust contracts in a closed bitcoin system to do financial obligations (basically)
herbijudlestoids: im watchin the youtube video about it now, seems like he has hired some indian guy to do the coding and the explanation video is just a skype screencast of him showing reggie what he has paid for
Vexual: codemonekys
herbijudlestoids: confusing because there is an alt called ultracoin that has nothing to do with it
Vexual: thats why theres altcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29100 @ 0.00093431 = 27.1884 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids have heard, yea. sort-of ripple/ot/etc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29570 @ 0.00093431 = 27.6275 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: seems a bit vapey right now? i tried to reg for the forum but doesnt work etc
herbijudlestoids: seems approx equv to the idea of p2pex, implemented with zero trust
mircea_popescu: it doesn't seem like anything, tbh.
mircea_popescu: lot of hype, no actual subtance that i so far noticed.
Vexual: lasbians
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12261 @ 0.00093235 = 11.4315 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Here's the latest Max Keiser in which he and Stacey Herbert to a good job of explaining what I have in mind. " this sort of thing will instakill any project, for instance.
mircea_popescu: in general, a large number of fluffers are trying to scam various particular venues. there's all the dorks pretending like they have projects for the benefit of the clueless va market.
mircea_popescu: there's all the various scammers trying to peel the eager youth public
mircea_popescu: on it goes.
Vexual: are you gonna do mpex forever mp?
mircea_popescu: probably not.
Vexual: who could manage it
Vexual: could someone?
mircea_popescu: why not ?
mircea_popescu: maybe this year i cut a deal with a large bank. or maybe i buy one. or maybe next year. or who knows
mircea_popescu: i'm not even 40 yet. there's plenty of time.
mircea_popescu: haha yea i saw that. ppl were like... headshake and backing up
herbijudlestoids: you should buy the worlds oldest bank! monte dei paschi di siena
mircea_popescu: not particularly strong.
decimation: what's the point of owning a fiat bank?
Vexual: old monmey and contacts
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34461 @ 0.00093228 = 32.1273 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: that you can tell the government of X irrelevant country to either adapt its enforcement to what you do or else prepare for eating treebark
mircea_popescu: like hsbc sent the usg packing
herbijudlestoids: i dun think you can afford a strong bank, thats why i suggested one of the weaklings :P
decimation: all the banks are poor in bitcoin
mircea_popescu: i don't need a weakling.
mircea_popescu: and on the strength of having grown from 10mn to 1bn in ayear, i can literally afford anything.
mircea_popescu: in the current situation, the only reason i conceivably could not lbo a bank with 100trn in "assets"
mircea_popescu: is that the people supposed to finance lbos are either poor or stupid.
decimation: seems like bank ownership would come with all kinds of soveirgn meddling
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell thickasthieves https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=443108.msg4887312#msg4887312 << seems they've decided it's called ALT not ATC.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Vexual: you might have a son in the next few years mp
mircea_popescu: decimation obviously it'd be a complex matter.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the actual reason would be, of course, that the last thing any one government wants is me at the helm of a huge fiat bank.
decimation: I agree at some point it will happen. In fact, at some point banks will be begging for the bitcoin rich to tell them what to do
mircea_popescu: they'd rather not eat all that much treebark if at all possible.
Vexual: well if mpex is anything to go by, youd own a priavte bank
Vexual: and still be the goto guy for bitcoin shit
mircea_popescu: Vexual 500 dollars a year to bank there and no further fees.
mircea_popescu: tell me you wouldn't use it.
Vexual: i cant tell you that
mircea_popescu: unlike the children spending their lunchbreak on bitcointalk, irl people actually have to like... you know, pay the rent and shit
Vexual: i imagine youd still use mpex too
mircea_popescu: yes. you'd need gpg for internet banking.
decimation: I would pay if I could get 100% backed deposits in whatever currency I'm banking
mircea_popescu: decimation well is it a bank or is it money storage ?
decimation: money storage for me
mircea_popescu: you could have that, i dun see why not.
decimation: with a convienent loan-matchmaking system
mircea_popescu: course at least for psychological reasons it's prolly better to have the storage and the banking business separated.
herbijudlestoids: how about the bank that lets you choose what rate you are willing to loan your money out at
decimation: the hilarious thing is that the fiat gov't would think they have leverage over you
mircea_popescu: decimation folks love to think this, story of my life.
herbijudlestoids: if you choose, say, 0% it cant loan the money out, at 0.5% only low risk investments, etc
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids maybe. the problem here is this : the more choice you give people, the more fuckwited they are and the more scams you enable.
mircea_popescu: so in practice you want to either give all choice or no choice.
decimation: you can have a fractional subsidary for the idiots to bank with
mircea_popescu: sorta like you can either be male or female. have to pick one.
mircea_popescu: there's no gender-ambiguous connector.
decimation: "why don't my checking account pay interest?" etc
herbijudlestoids: realistically, there should be no bitcoin bank, doesnt seem necessary as long as there is a highly liquid market for bitcoin duration notes and bonds, like 10,30,90 day 2,5,7,y bonds
mircea_popescu: the note market is much more difficult than meets the eye.
Vexual: why isnt my coal mine making money? it is now
Vexual: coz powerplant and shit
mircea_popescu: look at that, paschi di siena is on hte pinksheets now.
mircea_popescu: maddof helped them so.
decimation: the bank would provide research and screening of businesses wanting loans, as well as negotiating terms for classes of investors
decimation: ie a real finiancial middleman in the proper sense
mircea_popescu: decimation you'll never be able to hire.
mircea_popescu: how do you think i'll be able to coerce herbi here to do all that legwork for your blind "classes"
mircea_popescu: when he could just as well set up shop for himself.
Vexual: yeah herbi got it, hes a surity
decimation: there will be people who just wanna have some passive income, and will be willing to pay the bank fees to make sure the deal is reasonable
mircea_popescu: you still won't be able to hire.
herbijudlestoids: decimation: why cant any business wanting loans list a bond and their financial deets and allow me to quantify them and bid in the free market on their rate?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30500 @ 0.00093166 = 28.4156 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids why do you need a bank to interface your etrade account ?
herbijudlestoids: pls adjust your analogies for australia retards
decimation: MP, as in you won't be able to find anyone who is qualified to make these kinds of subjective creditworthiness judgements?
mircea_popescu: decimation not for any price youll afford to pay.
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids i just mean that if you want to dd on your own you can't possibly need a bank for any purpose.
Vexual: etrade is a stock broker here u know mp?
decimation: Well, you certainly wouldn't find anyone qualified working for banks today. He/she would have to be grown from scratch somehow.
mircea_popescu: decimation so then you try to "make it work" which means you push both ends and then a decade down the road your shitty officers bring about a crisis of unheard magnitude
mircea_popescu: what, you think financial top management particularly WANTED a crisis ?
mircea_popescu: Vexual yes.
Vexual: thought so
KRS1: herbijudlestoids>: he's finding the contracts in the blockchain?
KRS1: looks like theres also a rating to them
mircea_popescu: that's my point. if he wants a self-service thing he doesn't need the bank to anything.
decimation: I'm not sure the crisis would be of the same magnitude as what fiat banks have gotten into
herbijudlestoids: well what would i need the bank for, if i can for example loan 10 day money in a liquid market to some business directly, and then when i need some money sell the appropriate amout of 10 day loans back into the mkt?
decimation: but you certainly could lose alot of money on idiocy
decimation: what if you wanted to divide a loan amoung a few others to reduce the risk?
mircea_popescu: decimation you want sane business models at all times. this one you're contemplating proposes to make 10 dollar steaks out of nine meat. that leftover dollar isn't enough to hire anything but mcdonalds staff. which won't make what you want.
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids yes. if you want to do all the work, you don't need someone to do the work for a group of "you".
mircea_popescu: if you want to cut wood and feed stoves, "town heating services" aren't useful to you.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: marginal savers can do the legwork and rest of the market can take the interest rate as the signal
mircea_popescu: this is the path to disaster.
mircea_popescu: it's basically the equivalent of driving a car by touch.
herbijudlestoids: decimation: im assuming the loan granularity is extremely fine so you can loan your bitcoins equally amongst them or however you like...
mircea_popescu: fun fact : loan granularity only becomes fine in systems which well handle coarse.
mircea_popescu: if you need fineness as an input your system is thereby aborted.
decimation: That sounds like alot of work for investors and businesses alike
decimation: But I guess the work has to exist somewhere
mircea_popescu: this is kind of the general point here : you ignore workload at your peril. sooner or later it will punish you.
mircea_popescu: the later the worse.
herbijudlestoids: the businesses have to do nothing except list the bond and their verifiably true financials
mircea_popescu: sadly there is no such thing as a "verifiable true financial"
decimation: I guess I'm pushing it into the black boxed labeld "competent bank", and you are saying such a bank would have to charge enormous fees to employ the right people
herbijudlestoids: thereby compressing any profit margin
mircea_popescu: decimation something like that. you're basically saying "it should be done", like a govt.
mircea_popescu: well... that's fine but it doesn't actually work.
mircea_popescu: you know how they pass laws going "nothing in the foregoing should be construed as doing X" ?
mircea_popescu: that's wishful thinking in a bowstring. what the fuck.
decimation: That's in nearly all us laws now
mircea_popescu: "nothing i do now should be construed as rape" *pow* *smack* *riiiip*
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1581430/plain/)
Duffer1: !bash 1
decimation: Well, at least my "competent bank" would be better than current gov't and banks because the liabilities would be explicit and clear
Duffer1: ^.^
mircea_popescu: they won't stauy explicit and clear
mircea_popescu: everyone involved has a definite interest to muddy them
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22092 @ 0.00093433 = 20.6412 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: because your model fundamentally doesn't work, and so they're all stuck
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 omg context
Duffer1: ya i just realized >.<
Duffer1: i should have added a few more lines
mircea_popescu: be ashamed. you've even broken the rules nao.
Duffer1: sorry hehe
decimation: Do you have an alternative in mind? The only thing that occurs to me is rugged investors and businesses creating gpg contracts on their own terms.
mircea_popescu: i don't have a fully polished, drop-in alternative in any sense.
mircea_popescu: what's worse, i doubt there can actually be an alternative to toughening the agents the fuck up.
mircea_popescu: i've been measuring it across the board, you've perhaps seen the tail ends of ti
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25885 @ 0.00093203 = 24.1256 BTC [-] {2}
KRS1: Vexual: groovyy
KRS1: Straya cunt
Vexual: sup florida
decimation: it's the quis custodiet ipsos custodes problem
mircea_popescu: in general, the problem is vast. the day your average us citizen has decided that politics is a problem that other people should solve for him, so he can focus on w/e his job is
mircea_popescu: that day politics got fucked irretrievably.
mircea_popescu: yet people don't generally want to nor generally can be renaissance complete personalities.
decimation: which is the current situation more or less
mircea_popescu: well, the same is true of everything.
mircea_popescu: the day you quit cleanning your house it will cease to be clean.
mircea_popescu: the day you decide your financial security is "to be" ensured by nebulous third parties...
mircea_popescu: guesswhat.
mircea_popescu: they may be experts, but they aren't you.
decimation: even if they start out competent and strong, the inevitible incentives to cheat...
mircea_popescu: if you never talk to your girlfriend
mircea_popescu: she will eventually quit you.
herbijudlestoids: unless youre mute
mircea_popescu: see ? this seems to be a rather universal rule.
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids s/talk/communicate/
herbijudlestoids: lessons in personal responsibility from mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: well more like... you know... what alternative shall i have, woe unto me. i dun see one, other than lieing it you
mircea_popescu: (dun worry baby it'll all be alright)
decimation: "intellectuals" call it the "noble lie"
mircea_popescu: yes, but apparently you won't have classes, and be happy inferiors of some selected caste of masters.
mircea_popescu: this makes such lie impopssible.
Duffer1: herbijudlestoids it's a lot better than lessons from Labcoin :P
mircea_popescu: the original observation, however, to wit that politics has very quickly diminishing marginal returns, and in general you don't need more than 100 men involved in it in any case, is sound.
mircea_popescu: (fun fact : 50% of all wealth today is owned by 97 people, i hear)
mircea_popescu: research it, im curious if it can be confirmed
herbijudlestoids: i think its a lot lower, more like 8% :P
mircea_popescu: 1% own 40%, according to the un.
mircea_popescu: i guess it depends on how conspiracy-minded the approach is.
Vexual: yeah thats the humanitarian brach of the nsa
Vexual: not really
herbijudlestoids: yes i would agree 1% own 40%...so what is 1%? seventy million people!
herbijudlestoids: another number i found for 2013 is that 29 million own 39% of global assets
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00093454 = 12.8499 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: yeah, of which 69`999`923 people do banking with a select few :)
mircea_popescu: so in the end...
herbijudlestoids: nowaybro, if global assets includes say, a cashflow positive farm or car factory or whatever then that piece of ass(et) doesnt matter who you bank with
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.02969 = 0.1188 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: methinks i was forcing a point.
herbijudlestoids: i have heard a number that the richest 100% own a lot, but the number i heard was like 8%
herbijudlestoids: err s/100%/100 people/
Vexual: it mght affect where you are able to sell your product effectively herbi
decimation: well, it certainly is the case that money will stay in the hands of those who have the ability to hold it
decimation: and that those people are rare
mircea_popescu: ownership is a muddled thing anyway. so you own your house. you can't set it on fire. you can't dig a hole in the livingroom. etc.
decimation: everyone else needs an arrangement with the local duke or landgrave
mircea_popescu: decimation you know what a house mother is ?
decimation: Like someone who stays home to raise the children?
mircea_popescu: heterosexual couples ended up doing cellular families, somehow, for some reason.
mircea_popescu: at least in the english world.
mircea_popescu: gay people however, tend[ed] to live in groups
mircea_popescu: also other opressed groups (entertainers, especially sex workers, for instace ; drug users definitely)
Vexual: hookers
mircea_popescu: much like average people going out to drink have a designated driver, these cvasi-familial arrangements have a house mother
mircea_popescu: who is the sort of... well.. landgrave, technically.
mircea_popescu: resolves "whose hairbrush it really is" disputes
Vexual: i tak eit you dont mp
herbijudlestoids: its my fucken hairbrush
mircea_popescu: in most large towns cops reflexively seek him out in any conflict
Vexual: lol
mircea_popescu: this meanwhile has expanded to college aged kids, who are in fact an opressed group by now.
decimation: yeah in frat houses in us universities there is often such a person
mircea_popescu: not deliberately, just, they're too fucking dumb and uninformed to survive in the world as it is.
mircea_popescu: and so slowly the model spreads
mircea_popescu: there's your landgrave.
mircea_popescu: so in the end, the future looks like, two to six slaves living i nthe care of one master, who gets in the wot and tries to make sense of whether mp or x or y is more sensible to keep his house's money.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8824 @ 0.00093507 = 8.2511 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: sorta mini-tribal.
Vexual: youtube thinks im a french tween
decimation: yeah that sounds about right
mircea_popescu: in the end, this all yields a richer conenctivity in society,
mircea_popescu: and it's a well known fact that the more connected model always emerges victorious.
Vexual: yeah then it breaks people starve and start over
mircea_popescu: which is fundamentally why england conquered scotland rather than the other way around
mircea_popescu: even though it was a scottish king who did the union
decimation: yeah here's a blog that shows a map of individualism vs. collectivism https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/national-individualism-collectivism-scores/
Vexual: say that in an aberdeen pub
mircea_popescu: i woudln't call this collectivism tho.
mircea_popescu: possibly because the term is in my mind strictly related to stalin.
decimation: the individualist are better at coordinating things on a large scale
decimation: Interestingly Hungary is a major outlier in Eastern Europe
mircea_popescu: is this hbd supposed to be "sanity ready to fight spurious accusations of racism" ?
Vexual: hbd?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23350 @ 0.00093874 = 21.9196 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: her thesis is that many of the behaviours people exhibit can be traced back to inbreeding vs. outbreeding
Vexual: how can hungary inbreed, the border keeps moving
mircea_popescu: no seriously ? can i lol yet ?
mircea_popescu: the us is under 50.
mircea_popescu: "remember that it’s the individualists who seem to work together best towards the collective — the BIG collective — society as a whole — a nation, for instance. meanwhile, the “collectivists” (as hofstede calls them) — or the clannish groups (as i call them) — don’t manage to handle, or even to create, commonweals hardly at all."
mircea_popescu: this is really very naive 1930s whig anthropology.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, the clannish groups don't actually need the large constructs like the alienated individuals do.
mircea_popescu: but anyway.
Vexual: yeah
herbijudlestoids: i need a cheeseburger
Vexual: get me one
herbijudlestoids: anyone else want anything?
Vexual: yeah get me the whole amore meal
herbijudlestoids: wtf is an amore meal?
Vexual: two extra cheezeburgers
mircea_popescu: yea srsly.
mircea_popescu: apparently mcd is taking advantage of the aussies' polyglot nature.
herbijudlestoids: allofmywut.pptx
Vexual: yeah its acutally the fat cunt meal
herbijudlestoids: what is the amore about? as in, i love mcdonalds so much, give me one of everything on the menu?
Vexual: your girl is supposed to get a salad and eat some of your chips
mircea_popescu: no, as in take the gf. you eat the big hoovespaste thing, she eats the small one
mircea_popescu: then you fight on the apple pie
Vexual: lol
mircea_popescu: what do these things cost anymore ?
herbijudlestoids: glad there is a proper burger joint down the end of my street
mircea_popescu: is that thing like 20 dollars ?
Vexual: bacon on mine
Vexual: if you dont mind
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: id guess about that, with the current FX rate at 0.87
herbijudlestoids: altho there is the convenient big max index if you wanna work out your PPP that way
herbijudlestoids: s/max/mac
Vexual: 123 bux amore
Vexual: 12
mircea_popescu: i was just idly curious
mircea_popescu: last time i ate in a popular joint i left like 40 dollars there iirc.
herbijudlestoids: we just got...TGIF here
mircea_popescu: this being, of course, romania, where labour an' materials are cheap
Vexual: can one get a good burger there mp?
mircea_popescu: i never had one.
herbijudlestoids: what do you eat mircea_popescu? soylent? :D
mircea_popescu: last burger i had was at some irish restaurant in boston. i ate it with a knife and fork, much to the waitstaff's delight
cazalla: i don't know any aussies that buy a family deal from maccas
cazalla: it's usually fish and chips mate
mircea_popescu: (all the chicks came one by one to discreetly check me out)
herbijudlestoids: ooo cazalla you just paused me mid sohe
cazalla: i just sat down with a cuppa
Vexual: u veg?
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: my trilema buffer is now at 5 articles, if you want me to read more you will have to pay 0.01BTC for a subscription to my HTTP GETs :P
mircea_popescu: my blog is like an exhaustive mp compendium
Vexual: its a delicious clump of pluerotus mushrooms
mircea_popescu: haha sokay, they'll wait
mircea_popescu: Vexual no, i eat girls.
Vexual: vitamin v
herbijudlestoids: Vexual: ooo did i tell you that i am a fine grower of pleurotus eryngii?
Vexual: im not all that much of a mushroom afficianardo to be honest
herbijudlestoids: i got a lil obsessed from when i lived in victoria
cazalla: those tomatoes look average
Vexual: unless theyre draped on a porterhouse
herbijudlestoids: lactarius deliciosus especially
cazalla: then again, i grow my own (heat wave is killing em atm though)
herbijudlestoids: ok fucken ill be back, going to get some burgers before you guys convince me off it completely
Vexual: what cut is that mp? lower back?
Duffer1: ;;google congestive heart failure
gribble: Congestive Heart Failure Symptoms, Causes, and Treatment - WebMD: <http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide-heart-failure>; Heart failure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_failure>; Congestive Heart Failure - American Heart Association: <http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/CongenitalHeartDefects/TheImpactofCongenitalHeartDefects/Congestive- (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: there's like... 500`000 trillion apparently.
mircea_popescu: Vexual which one ?
mircea_popescu: ah the sauerbraten. upper leg.
Vexual: sauerbraten
Vexual: mmm, do you keep beef?
Vexual: whats the marinade, i cant translate, too salivating
mircea_popescu: Tot in practica eu n-o marinez in otet, cum e ideea nemteasca, ci-n vin, ceva rosu (in imagine dinsus aveti un cupaj de Merlot / Pinot Noir de la Recas. Daca nu sunteti alcolisti ca si mine puteti folosi lapte batut, am mincat o data facuta asa de austriece miini, fu delicioasa. (Si, si).
Vexual: yeah
mircea_popescu: also in practice, i don't use vinegar, like the germans, i use wine, something red (depicted above, merlot/pinot noir from recas)
Vexual: i feel you
mircea_popescu: if you're not alcoholics like me you can use buttermilk, i had it once made by austrian hands, it was delicious (both)
Vexual: that looks like thew kinda cut that gets full price in japan
Vexual: i see four steaks
KRS1: Billy Goat? lol
mircea_popescu: lotta mouths to feed.
Vexual: yeah u roast in the cast iron?
mircea_popescu: or clay dutch oven
Vexual: on a fire in the garden?
mircea_popescu: too much hassle to improvise useful fires when you got an oven and everything
Vexual: thats why theres a lip on the lid of the pot, for coals
Vexual: you with your fancy gas
twizt: .bait
twizt: ;9
twizt: ;(*
KRS1: ;;seen ozbot
gribble: ozbot was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 hours, 27 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <ozbot> 2193847870.17428 | Next Diff in 610 blocks | Estimated Change: 17.0561% in 3d 12h 14m 55s
KRS1: no bait tonight
Vexual: ;;see Graet
gribble: Error: "see" is not a valid command.
Vexual: ;;seenGraet
gribble: Error: "seenGraet" is not a valid command.
Vexual: ;;seen raet
gribble: I have not seen raet.
Vexual: ;;seen Graet
gribble: Graet was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 17 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours, 56 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <Graet> yep, got eta tho?
Vexual: drool fail
mircea_popescu: there. double cheezburgers, an' goodnite.
Vexual: me too, im off to find spatchcock
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.18 = 1.8 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00093964 = 31.384 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.11237142 = 0.7866 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.125 = 0.75 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.58 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC
dub: wat
dub: usagi back?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26847 @ 0.0009401 = 25.2389 BTC [+] {2}
KRS1: hah that bait looks lionish rawr
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34950 @ 0.00093577 = 32.7052 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.08154999 = 0.3262 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 10 @ 0.07741 = 0.7741 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.109 BTC [-]
Namworld: There are so many people borrowing USD to go long on BTC on Bitfinex...
herbijudlestoids: leverage always ends well
herbijudlestoids: at least the borrow rate is relatively low for USD :P
Namworld: relatively low? looks kind of high
Namworld: The "usury" kind of high
Namworld: 18.7 million USD vs 3000 BTC borrowed
herbijudlestoids: whats the USD interbank rate? 0.25%? 0.5%? here in aus its ~3%
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00093459 = 10.6076 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.11899999 = 0.238 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1205 = 0.241 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26313 @ 0.00093379 = 24.5708 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1761 @ 0.00280177 = 4.9339 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 617 @ 0.00093354 = 0.576 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.1242 = 0.621 BTC [+] {2}
Namworld: I have no idea
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.18 BTC [-]
Namworld: Why the discussion about the interbank rate?
Namworld: Whatever they are, they're lower than Bitfinex
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00093454 = 22.1953 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.12475 = 0.499 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28900 @ 0.00093579 = 27.0443 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28000 @ 0.00093136 = 26.0781 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6623 @ 0.00093132 = 6.1681 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31825 @ 0.00092988 = 29.5934 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30050 @ 0.00092929 = 27.9252 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00092862 = 7.754 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29640 @ 0.00093194 = 27.6227 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30100 @ 0.00093535 = 28.154 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3527 @ 0.002801 = 9.8791 BTC [-] {4}
herbijudlestoids: anyone around?
Duffer1: how's it goin
herbijudlestoids: alright, just trying to plug sensitivity analysis into the just-dice numbers
herbijudlestoids: not sure there is a positive kelly criterion value so the best bet is to "invest" with the house
herbijudlestoids: yeah...all the values seem to come out negative, not including the house edge
Duffer1: do you have your own site or blog where you're showing this info?
Duffer1: are you just analyzing for the hell of it or do you intend to apply your findings to trade?
herbijudlestoids: this is the equation f=(p*(b+1)-1)/b where b=0.65 and p=0.6
herbijudlestoids: and then i did sensitivity analysis for b and p looking for positive f values
Duffer1: right, but why hehe
herbijudlestoids: hmm well im analysing because some people on here mentioned it, id only apply if i could find an optimal betting equation
herbijudlestoids: i find it nice you can invest with the house tho
Duffer1: oh i see
Duffer1: i wish dooglus hung out in b-a
Duffer1: i bet that'd be very interesting
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00280003 = 0.56 BTC [-] {4}
Namworld: Possibly
Namworld: If there's no house edge, then it's always going to be zero for f. Unless there's rounding issues in the winnings vs odds since you can adjust those.
Namworld: If the odds are negative (house edge), f will be negative.
Namworld: So you know... go with the house
herbijudlestoids: Namworld: thought thats what i said
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21950 @ 0.00092817 = 20.3733 BTC [-] {4}
jurov: that's clear, but did you come with best strategy when to withdraw?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 30 @ 0.24310363 = 7.2931 BTC
herbijudlestoids: jurov: i have some ideas already ;)
herbijudlestoids: we know the long run house edge is 1% but highly volatile in the short term, so basically arb against that 1%
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.24310363 = 2.1879 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25966 @ 0.00092694 = 24.0689 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00292356 = 0.2924 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2234 @ 0.00092577 = 2.0682 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00092941 = 22.3058 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 12 @ 0.04750011 = 0.57 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.1792 = 0.896 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.17299166 = 2.0759 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.075 = 0.225 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.07200002 = 0.144 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 6 @ 0.0731 = 0.4386 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 993 @ 0.000405 = 0.4022 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8884 @ 0.00092862 = 8.2499 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47149 @ 0.00092626 = 43.6722 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.164 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.16366666 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 200 @ 0.005 = 1 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.18999998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.18999999 = 1.71 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.19 = 1.52 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.0009256 = 29.249 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.0009256 = 10.5518 BTC [-]
jurov: herbijudlestoids, good article. i did not realize there's formula for this
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.24310363 = 2.431 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28650 @ 0.00092547 = 26.5147 BTC [-] {2}
herbijudlestoids: jurov: glad you liked it! :)
herbijudlestoids: jurov: i put it on reddit, but im not really a bitcoin person so i dunno where is good to share it to generate some discussion, if theres anywhere you think might be interested pls feel free to repost it there
jurov: where? i can upvote
jurov: just put it ro /r/bitcoin under catchytitle and hope for the best
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1711 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: yep thats approx what i did :P dunno how catchy the title is
herbijudlestoids: anyway, bed now, goodnight
jurov: i am not an expert, maybe ask Bingo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BBET] 2000 @ 0.000645 = 1.29 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14140 @ 0.00092537 = 13.0847 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00092969 = 11.7606 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 150 @ 0.00166806 = 0.2502 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.04979776 = 0.1992 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.0009302 = 22.8829 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.04979777 = 0.3984 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00092499 = 5.4574 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so since pretty much anyone here has a better knowledge of webstuff than i do, here's a question :
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00093333 = 21.2799 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as you're going to do a site with accounts, which people can log in over http (stupid as this may be)
mircea_popescu: wouldn't the best practice be, that upon user registration you generate a user salt and a nonce, send these as a hashed cookie,
mircea_popescu: and upon each subsequent login you a) check if the user has the old cookie ; b) hash the salt, store it, increment the nonce, store it ; c) send a new cookie
mircea_popescu: if your salt+nonce -> cookie process is deterministic you can even verify it's the same actual user to any arbitrary degree of fineness (such as, same ip)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 25 @ 0.005 = 0.125 BTC
mircea_popescu: the question being, is anyone currently doing this ?
mircea_popescu: (obviously in this case by "login" i mean, any http request to your server at all)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.175 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: buna sa-ti fie inima, straine.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell herbijudlestoids those same people said to you http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-02-2014#472180
gribble: The operation succeeded.
nubbins`: toată lumea de aici este strainu
nubbins`: or whatever :D
mircea_popescu: "este straină"
mircea_popescu: but otherwise wd.
mircea_popescu: anywya : hi in romanian is, to this day, "buna ziua", ie good day.
mircea_popescu: the ancientest response to this is "may your heart be good, stranger"
mircea_popescu: used liberally cca... 1700
nubbins`: that's bordering on an arabic level of eloquence
mircea_popescu: romania had been bordering on an arabic invasion of the western world all through the middle ages.
nubbins`: well there ya go!
nubbins`: peace be upon you as well, etc
mircea_popescu: for instance the town i live in, has been sieged by the turks and by the germans about 18 times, switching sides like 7
mircea_popescu: because it controls the only easy access into the west from constantinople.
nubbins`: fun fact, i only learned two arabic phrases when visiting morocco
mircea_popescu: bismallah being one ?
nubbins`: actually only learned that one afterward
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.175 BTC [+]
nubbins`: anyway, people were much less impressed with my wa'alaykum salaam when it became clear that i didn't need to buy a rug
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell herbijudlestoids srsly, blogspot ? why such evil ;/
gribble: The operation succeeded.
nubbins`: "cutting a rug" is a euphemism here, but not for what you'd think
mircea_popescu: dancing ?
nubbins`: you're more perceptive than most
nubbins`: also known as "having a scuff"
mircea_popescu: you know, all that grammar truffles doesn't know.
mircea_popescu: i know it >D
KRS-: "cleaning a rug" is a euphamism here, commonly paired with "laying pipe".
KRS-: .bait
nubbins`: ﷽‎
nubbins`: ^ that's a single glyph!
KRS-: How did you type nothing
nubbins`: how do you not have any arabic fonts installed?
mircea_popescu: amusingly, it reads like a square with f0f0 written in it, which'd be a short form of a romanian euphemism for... cunt, of course
KRS-: ah thats why
mircea_popescu: fofoloanca.
KRS-: haha
nubbins`: right in the fofolanca
mircea_popescu: maybe it's really fdfd and im just being freudian
pankkake: mircea_popescu: most websites, and almost all frameworks I've seen, only use a cookie that isn't refreshed, and is either left to expire stupidly, or never expiring
mircea_popescu: pankkake so then this'd be beyond my comprehension. why in the fuck ?
nubbins`: pankkake: fuckit, drive space is cheap ;p
pankkake: if you add a signed timestamp to the cookie, maybe you can limit logins from old stolen cookies
mircea_popescu: obviously you have to chain cookies if you're using that retarded method of keeping track of user state.
nubbins`: my favourite euphemism for pussy these days is "ham wallet"
mircea_popescu: what are you, an aluminum siding salesman ?!
nubbins`: great for industrial buildings as well as the home!
mircea_popescu: (guy walks into a girlscout cookie clambake. as the festivities progress he keeps getting more and more excited
KRS-: pankkake: good luck with that cookie strategy if you are using multiple web servers
mircea_popescu: eventually he asks a supervisor : so when do you skewer their meatflaps already ?)
mircea_popescu: KRS- what'd be the problem ?
pankkake: KRS-: it's a signed cookie, not session cookie; and managing sessions over multiple servers is possible too
pankkake: but usually the process is that you have an auth cookie (lifetime = high), and a session cookie (lifetime = short)
nubbins`: managing sessions over several servers is commonplace
pankkake: and we're only talking about the auth cookie
mircea_popescu: pankkake so is the session cookie changed on each pageload ?
KRS-: Load balanced web servers would associate that cookie to one particular web server, if the load balancer stategy isn't carefully chosen (if possible) when the load balancer shifts traffic the cookie could become invalid beecause another web server doesn't know about the cookie.
mircea_popescu: KRS- inasmuch as they all run your code they all know about the cookie.
nubbins`: have seen this
pankkake: no, it doesn't change, that's the point
mircea_popescu: pankkake well that's fucktarded.
pankkake: unless you store session data in it, but usually it's just a secret ID
nubbins`: had to troubleshoot a web app once where there was a round-robin load balancing setup. each new page request launched a new session, up to a max of 3 (the number of servers)
KRS-: I've dealt with this problem before. You have to carefully pick a load balanced strategy or pick another session persistence.
mircea_popescu: why so much derp ;/
pankkake: the session cookie isn't kept. if you close the browser, it's removed, etc.
pankkake: it's a poor's man stateful over stateless crap
nubbins`: what are you guys talking about, anyway
mircea_popescu: very poor man.
KRS-: This is my kind of it work, not much of a developer..love this stuffl.
mircea_popescu: today we learn nubbins` doth not read the logs
nubbins`: i read like halfway through today
nubbins`: lotta noise ;(
KRS-: pankkake gets it =D
KRS-: sysadmin pankkake?
pankkake: but the auth cookie thing is interesting. it wouldn't be so hard to write a more secure implementation that most of what's out there
KRS-: true
nubbins`: oh jeez, literally right before i joined
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00093336 = 16.0538 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.16366666 = 0.3273 BTC [-]
pankkake: sysadmin for fun and dev for work, basically
KRS-: ya its hard to find work as sysadmin where I live, but the work lasts a very long time.
KRS-: secure
nubbins`: so let's suppose the user loses their old cookie, what then?
KRS-: sign back in
KRS-: unless like pankkake said, its just a signed cookie not session
nubbins`: you're no longer verifying it's anybody if the old cookie is gone, no?
pankkake: ooh actually I wrote something like it earlier, without thinking much about it. the auth cookie has an expiration, but at every session cookie recreation, the auth cookie is refreshed
nubbins`: sure, but suppose the user clears his cookies.
pankkake: so it allows auth cookies that still expire fast, while not forcing you to relogin if you visit the site often
pankkake: well any cookie removal logs you out obviously
KRS-: mitm comes to mind
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6651 @ 0.00093273 = 6.2036 BTC [-]
nubbins`: so you can verify it's the same user logging in each time, unless they perform a relatively common, semmingly benign action, like clearing their cookies
nubbins`: why even bother with all the hocus pocus?
KRS-: maybe to incorporate the salt+nonce that mircea_popescu was talking about?
KRS-: not sure
pankkake: it's a way to ensure you only have fresh cookies - stealing old cookies cannot work
pankkake: helps prevent replay attacks… kinda
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15766 @ 0.0009273 = 14.6198 BTC [-]
pankkake: it's not going to be very good
nubbins`: seems like rubber bands and paperclips
pankkake: when I did implement that thing, it was more because I wanted cookies to expire in a smarter way
nubbins`: if you're that worried, just let the auth cookies expire after a half hour.
nubbins`: there's no "keep me logged in" checkbox on my bank's website
nubbins`: if you're worried about cookies being stolen, there should be no such checkbox on your site either
pankkake: my bank is using RC4 "encryption"
pankkake: 128 bit too
pankkake: and if you try to force it to do something else, it rejects you
pankkake: lol, banks
nubbins`: when i lived in korea, my bank required that i ran an activex control, had a cookie stored on a usb thumb drive, and asked for two separate five-digit codes from a list of about 50 that were provided as a wallet-sized card
nubbins`: before i could even enter my card number :o
nubbins`: such intentions, many fail, etc
asciilifeform: ah, korea, land of eternal IE6.
KRS-: why RC4
KRS-: securing transport layer is hard anyway
pankkake: mircea_popescu: http://docs.pylonsproject.org/projects/pyramid/en/latest/api/authentication.html see reissue_time, it looks like those guys thought of it too :)
pankkake: KRS-: probably because of the BEAST attack, but they must have botched the configuration
KRS-: hopefully they are using it together with another mechanism, which is probably the case and would be just fine.
pankkake: no, they are very incompetent
KRS-: seems to be the case everywhere..
pankkake: 1) it's a bank 2) it's a FRENCH bank 3) their website reeks incompetence
KRS-: pankkake I've done a lot of consulting...from the private sector to government..none of them got it right. I imagine the big guys do like BOA, Google, etc.
pankkake: sadly the gpg over http projects seem to go nowhere
KRS-: One exception was the Florida Turnpike Enterprise (a private business implementation of a government roadway function to accept tolls and what not)..they had a firm grasp on I.T. security from their payment processor to their wireless roadway nodes..I was very impressed.
KRS-: Ya wonder why that is..it seems pretty solid to me.
nubbins`: years ago i did maintenance on a lottery corporation website
nubbins`: THEY had security figured out
pankkake: CACert allows you to authenticate with a browser certificate, though. I don't know any other website allowing it
mircea_popescu: pankkake too late, ima post it.
nubbins`: i should take a dump before the gym
pankkake: post what?
nubbins`: nice formatting ;(
asciilifeform: nubbins`: not mine
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6912 @ 0.00093379 = 6.4544 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: nubbins` that korea story reminds me of playing old z80 games
mircea_popescu: "please look in your manual to continue moving larry around the lounge"
KRS-: pankkake: probably because the CA cert won't complete the certificate chain for the general public. The cert would have to be signed by a custom CA I think.
nubbins`: lel yeah
nubbins`: "to continue sir graham's quest, type the 8th word on page 5"
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> seems like rubber bands and paperclips << it's fucking stateful http. It WOULD be.
KRS-: large intranets would prob use that
nubbins`: anyway, time to strap myself to a torture machine for an hour, seeya
KRS-: c ya
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00092794 = 11.2745 BTC [-]
water4ll: who is trading S.MPOE?
jurov: water4ll, there were ~40 new mpex accounts last month alone
jurov: plus others via coinbr
water4ll: I'm just a little surprised at consistent trading volume
mircea_popescu: why is consistent trading volume surprising ?
water4ll: well it's a higher barrier to entry than say havelock
water4ll: even with broker
jurov: i'd say the barrier motivates people to take care of their assets
water4ll: and high value traded too, none of that 0.05btc nonsense
water4ll: always 10,20 etc
mircea_popescu: water4ll yes, the fact that mpex is a respectable exchange makes it have consistent volume
mircea_popescu: unlike all the scamexchanges to date.
mircea_popescu: what in there is surprising ?
water4ll: seems a lot of inflated volume
mircea_popescu: Feb 02 05:05:26 <assbot>[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 588 @ 0.00093125 = 0.5476 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: it happens, but apparently not too often.
mircea_popescu: water4ll listen, there's a difference between "i don't want X to be true and therefore i'll say things" and "X is surprising".
jurov: water4ll, i'm doing S.MPOE/BBET-PT passthrough payout and in 3 months so far only half of people went through it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 30 @ 0.005 = 0.15 BTC
jurov: it clearly shows they don't give a fuck
jurov: unlike on mpex
water4ll: jurov": what do you mean? via coinbr?
jurov: they paid (or have to pay monthly)
jurov: yes, it's the passthrought from BTCT
water4ll: BTCT I thought closed down some time ago
water4ll: oh nvm
water4ll: got t
mircea_popescu: wow you still struggling with that ?!
water4ll: hard to keep track these days
mircea_popescu: poor jurov lol
jurov: yes, i just left it there
water4ll: glbse bitfunder
jurov: no additional expense
jurov: hey everyone who was on btct, try checking here: https://coinbr.com/btct/nampt_1
jurov: maybe you'll get a surprise ;)
jurov: and if you want to try coinbr, you have free 1 month till next monthly fee and 1 free withdrawal
mircea_popescu: now that's an idea
mircea_popescu: prolly best advertised on forum tho
jurov: oh, it was announced there when I put it online\
jurov: and then again and again
jurov: they just cnat raed
mircea_popescu: why would theyu right ?
mircea_popescu: like that jimmothy fellow. "ingore everything that's said, quote wikipedia"
water4ll: mircea_popescu: how many articles do you pump out daily?
mircea_popescu: been averaging 1-2 in 2013.
mircea_popescu: bout where it is, 30-60 a month.
mircea_popescu: lol you think that's wow, talk to benkay. i think he's done thirty this week.
water4ll: I tried to write a blog once, after 5 minutes I found myself opening some new tabs
mircea_popescu: to quote george for you, "They're men with jobs, Jerry! ... They're married, they have secretaries."
mircea_popescu: that sounds like the clap not a cookie.
water4ll: they are both persistent
ThickerThanThiev: I'm also not savvy on cookies, but my naive question is, why doesn't the browser manage user auth?
pankkake: mircea_popescu: your irc copy paste is broken, the last part is about using RC4, and not related to the rest
pankkake: i.e. anything after "Probably because of the BEAST attack"
water4ll: crime more concern than beast
mircea_popescu: so is psylon a french bank ?
pankkake: pylons is a web framework, sort of
pankkake: I don't know why you mangled those two things together
mircea_popescu: that's nice, had too much quite in there anyway. check it ?
mircea_popescu: why, because i'm doing fifty things that;s why.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
mircea_popescu: be glad i don't accidentally insert nudes in rndom tech articles or something.
pankkake: that would be less confusing
water4ll: mircea_popescu: I think it's time
mircea_popescu: "it too :)" alligns with "probably" on the next line in my view. so i just read over krs and thus it formed one line.
water4ll: has anybody got the address of rpietila's new private bitcoin forum
mircea_popescu: you can't have that unless you post a pic with a bunch of junk metal all over your head.
water4ll: i sent shoe on head pic to him via pm
water4ll: nobody here invited?
mircea_popescu: sorry man. can't share it without the pic.
mircea_popescu: that's what he said.
mircea_popescu: you're a pregnant woman.
water4ll: she said the 3rd is the cutest
water4ll: whatever brand of animal these are
water4ll: but you can barely see it
water4ll: it's covered by the other one
water4ll: I have to be frugal with these links
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly.
water4ll: open cupboard is bare
mircea_popescu: or go mine some ATC and trade it for BTC to buy Trilema credits with
mircea_popescu: a crypto economy!
water4ll: need to travel pickup few precious trilemna credits
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 13 @ 0.02900003 = 0.377 BTC [-] {4}
water4ll: mircea_popescu: will you stay in romania for remainder of your life?
mircea_popescu: i've only come here recently. i was in cr/central america for a few years.
mircea_popescu: the us before that, etc.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 12 @ 0.02895 = 0.3474 BTC [-] {3}
water4ll: I had known some guys from romania, they couldn't wait to leave. for places like HK
water4ll: I've not been personally
mircea_popescu: how old were they ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
water4ll: some in early 20's some in 30's
water4ll: very enterprising bunch
mircea_popescu: were they poor ? were they married ?
water4ll: well they started selling potatoes
water4ll: so initially poor, but now mostly have plenty of $
mircea_popescu: in short : why should it be surprising that socially and sexually unattached young males wish to travel ? of course they would, if they're healthy.
kakobrekla: we are getting assraped here
water4ll: not so much travel, because they don't have intention of coming back
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla waitwut ?
mircea_popescu: water4ll that's travel.
kakobrekla: whole country = code red
mircea_popescu: you don't deserve it.
kakobrekla: no power no nothing.
kakobrekla: no water
water4ll: where is snow?
mircea_popescu: you got snow right ? whatcha mean no water.
kakobrekla: from the pipes!
water4ll: kakobrekia: which country?
kakobrekla: slovenia
mircea_popescu: take girl out, remove bra, put snow on her, obtain water from the titties.
mircea_popescu: better than water from the pipes.
water4ll: wow it looks so beautiful
kakobrekla: anyway, im on my last ups now and its running low, so i might be offline for a day or three
mircea_popescu: listen, come over.
water4ll: just a ps soon
kakobrekla: im not driving in this weather
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
mircea_popescu: well i can't teleport you
mircea_popescu: there's no power there.
kakobrekla: yes sucks.
deadweasel: snowmobile?
mircea_popescu: exercise 1 hr, irc 5 minutes
mircea_popescu: a week later, kako looks like peyton manning
water4ll: kako 'mr legs' brekla
mircea_popescu: the best part of any frog.
mircea_popescu: pic looks good.
water4ll: I love the snow
water4ll: isn't it exciting?
water4ll: even better when trails are cancelled and lights go out
mircea_popescu: yeah well, some people got shit to do.
water4ll: I just use as excuse to smoke in train toilet
water4ll: then you can relax and read a book or something
water4ll: makes a change to normal dailly routine
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla think about it tho. here everything's fine, snow is melting. you can see the ground.
water4ll: the water in slovenia is so clean
mircea_popescu: sucks to drive for a few hours but what if you're stuck there for 2 weeks
water4ll: I don't understand why you can be trapped anywhere in the snow
water4ll: look at this snow horse
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9940 @ 0.00093092 = 9.2533 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: ok, going back dark, wish me luck.
water4ll: stay strong
jurov: kakobrekla, no trains either? here we have a little ice, but no such problems
jurov: just go to vienna and from there
jurov: gone ...
water4ll: been consumed by an avalanche
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00092823 = 7.2402 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: apparently railroads are blocked too
mircea_popescu: serbia can't move into hungary etc
water4ll: what's the problem, stock up on wood and candles and food
jurov: but if you heat by electricity...
jurov: and slovenia has usually mild climate, they don't have gas/central heaters everywhere like here
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 13000 @ 0.00011108 = 1.444 BTC [+] {6}
ThickerThanThiev: During Fiscal Year 2013, the Bureau of Engraving and Printing delivered approximately 26 million notes a day with a face value of approximately $1.3 billion. About 90 percent of the notes are used to replace notes already in, or taken out of circulation.
ThickerThanThiev: How do you replace a note already in circulation?
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=443108.msg4887312#msg4887312 << seems they've decided it's called ALT not ATC. <<< The hear wants what the hear wants!
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what they mean is "notes are used to either send to consumers which sell us burned/destroyed paper money, or else to banks or other institutions that have the authority to remove paper from circulation"
mircea_popescu: but reporter can't write.
ThickAsThieves: its from the the official website
mircea_popescu: yeah, great indeed.
ThickAsThieves: is there a counter like the National Debt Clock for dollar dilution?
ThickAsThieves: thats all i'm looking for really
mircea_popescu: they ceased publishing the m3 in 2005
mircea_popescu: becase "it wasn't interesting"
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding the only time i heard someone in this channel wanting some sort of info from the usg
mircea_popescu: it was you wanting the m3 above.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 233 @ 0.00083501 = 0.1946 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1767 @ 0.00082157 = 1.4517 BTC [-] {11}
ThickAsThieves: the clock wouldnt tell the whole story anyway I guess, but would still be an easy way to show US people clearly what happens
ThickAsThieves: people really dont understand money gets printed daily
ThickAsThieves: NEW money
mircea_popescu: people understand all too well they do not wish to understand this if they wish to continue whatever it is they're doing.
mircea_popescu: so... no.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 14500 @ 0.00011141 = 1.6154 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 180 @ 0.00082 = 0.1476 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1500 @ 0.00011142 = 0.1671 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00092659 = 8.8953 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: So am I correct in stating the USG reports there exists approx $11,000,000,000,000?
ThickAsThieves: which would be $500,000,000 new dollars in 2013?
ThickAsThieves: $500,000,000,000
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27060 @ 0.00093135 = 25.2023 BTC [+] {2}
chetty: What dollars? They are just 1's&0's in computers somewhere - oh wait thats btc, oh wait ..
ThickAsThieves: i'm just trying to understand the money supply better
ThickAsThieves: not which of it is paper
KRS-: i think i'm going to change careers..i want to become a rapper.
ThickAsThieves: have you ever rapped before?
KRS-: what are my chances
KRS-: no
KRS-: but i like rap
ThickAsThieves: do you like pizza?
KRS-: thats how some people are these days with I.T.
ThickAsThieves: maybe you should become one of those
KRS-: ikr
KRS-: "oh i can click shit and run the wizard" "I is a computer expert"
ThickAsThieves: Windows Exper
KRS-: dime a dozen
ThickAsThieves: depends where you are
ThickAsThieves: like if you work in a retirement home
ThickAsThieves: WIndows Experts are pretty useful
ThickAsThieves: or a numkber of small nonprofits
KRS-: worked at this one company where upper IT management thought they were all hot shit like that but had no idea of the underlying concepts
KRS-: then went running to the dev's for support
KRS-: and took credit for the effiencies, increased sales and gains
ThickAsThieves: I had to give this one adult day health care place all new staff emails twice in two years because staff turnover and "but they wanna use their Yahoo"
KRS-: hah
KRS-: the best was a nonprofit i consulted for..the 68 yo CFO was telling me how to do my job..needless to say i didnt service them past the initial 2-3 visits.
ThickAsThieves: small business web hosting mostly consists of "I lost my iPhone can you get my email back the new one?" and "Why are erection pill ads on my home page?"
ThickAsThieves: old people really dont trust IT people at all
KRS-: haha ya or the formatting isnt quite right on my spreadsheet or word document
ThickAsThieves: probly from being burned by all the expert nephews and windows experts
KRS-: ya i guess i cant blame them..much incompetence out there.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 0.50889948 BTC to 444 shares, 114617 satoshi per share
KRS-: other SMB's have been great, long time clients, low workload, worked 2-4 days a week on average and made great money..thinking about going that route again, i just hate selling myself..maybe i can get a marketing company to do that.
ThickAsThieves: a ha "There was approximately $1.23 trillion in circulation as of January 29, 2014, of which $1.18 trillion was in Federal Reserve notes."
KRS-: ouch
ThickAsThieves: i cant sort how these numbers add up though
KRS-: see the news lately, DOW and other markets are looking flaky
KRS-: most US currnecy overseas
ThickAsThieves: like, how doe sthe first report show $11t, the second say 1.23t, and the debt clock say $17.st
KRS-: smoke and mirrors dude
ThickAsThieves: nah there has to be some sort of path through the math
ThickAsThieves: made up or not
KRS-: ..was going to say if you want to trust those numbers.
ThickAsThieves: it is has to add up somewhere right?
KRS-: the government has been pulling back i hear
ThickAsThieves: maybe the simple answer is to just use the largest one
KRS-: ThickAsThieves: it does. Its carefully scrutinized, but where you go for the numbers are for those in the know.
KRS-: Pretty sure.
KRS-: Like labor statistics..published vs unpublished.
ThickAsThieves: if we owe $17.25t then that is probly the minimum amount of dollars, no?
ThickAsThieves: printed or not
KRS-: you would think
KRS-: Either way its a bad situation.
ThickAsThieves: i'm looking for an easy way to educate my circles on dollar inflation and dilution
KRS-: is that of benefit to you?
ThickAsThieves: i want them to undestand they do not have $X in the bank
KRS-: oh for proper investment?
ThickAsThieves: and that tomorrow, they will have less $ in the bank whether they withdraw or not
KRS-: I'm sure serious investors already know this.
KRS-: I'm sure most investors do.
ThickAsThieves: this is for friends and family
KRS-: ah ..another story.
KRS-: Good
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 2000 @ 0.00082 = 1.64 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: its total ignirance out there man
ThickAsThieves: ignorance
KRS-: You aint kidding...got similar family like that thinking their 401k's are fine and all.
KRS-: They wont even listen to me.
ThickAsThieves: or at least what mp says total ignore-ance
mircea_popescu: yeah i was gonna say, glwt but it ain't happening/
mircea_popescu: that's why family is best organised as slaves in a harem
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 11131 @ 0.00011144 = 1.2404 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: you tell them what to do and are done with it.
mircea_popescu: with ppl as they are, even picking a fucking place to eat takes tw odays.
mircea_popescu: by the time you explain the situation to them you could have made more money than their aggregate savings by just... working.
mircea_popescu: like, doing something useful. which explaining stuff to idiots rarely is.
KRS-: heh
ThickAsThieves: you are so right about picking place to eat!
KRS-: so true man
ThickAsThieves: when we travel,
KRS-: give people a choice and it is teh fucks up everything
mircea_popescu: dude, you just yell "on your knees" and everyone is on their knees.
ThickAsThieves: I pre-choose every mean place before we even get to the airport
mircea_popescu: makes things so fucking easy.
KRS-: people actually want to be told imo
chetty: It does not have to add up. THey don't think the masses can do math so they bother with things like that
ThickAsThieves: so you guys are saying there really is no answer?
mircea_popescu: chetty actually, banks came up with clown&baloon patterns for the back of cheques, i wonder how long till your actual bank statment is in pictures
ThickAsThieves: that there are vastly conflicting ways to count the money?
mircea_popescu: numbers being racist and all.
nubbins`: ^ sounds like it doesn't snow where that guy lives
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves there are in fact vastly different ways to ACCOUNT.
mircea_popescu: "Those assets that he had, they were in fact somehow valued. On one approach to valuation, they came out X. On another approach to valuation, they came out Y. There’s little convergence between the series of Xs and Ys."
lippoper: I want ozbot back
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1300 @ 0.00011529 = 0.1499 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12819 @ 0.00093299 = 11.96 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: sure, but how do i sort out what a dollar is worth, ignoring outside inflations
mircea_popescu: you don't.
chetty: Some congress critter said they need to do weather reports in eubonics, thats why so many in NO didn't leave, they didn't understand.
mircea_popescu: how do you sort out what the word "it" means, ignoring outside inflations ?
ThickAsThieves: by striclty looking at money creation changes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2000 @ 0.00011907 = 0.2381 BTC [+] {9}
mircea_popescu: the reason pure mercantilist views are derided by ws today is sound tho.
mircea_popescu: you're trying to live in 1700, which doesn't work.
ThickAsThieves: i want to be be able to form a sentence like "If we print the same amount of money in 2014 as 2013, your $1 with be worth .82"
mircea_popescu: the us dollar is a negotiable credit instrument, like any paper. it does not have this "fixed" value you wish toassign it.
mircea_popescu: yes, but you can't form that stance.
mircea_popescu: and if you could, i could write a bot to exploit your currency and make me rich
mircea_popescu: rendering your statement false in the process.
mircea_popescu: (this, incidentally, is largely what soros vs bank of england was all about)
ThickAsThieves: that implies things happen to icrease dollar value no?
mircea_popescu: that implies that the exchange value of a negotiable instrument is only known after the negotiation completes.
nubbins`: you don't know what the value of your white tamagotchi is until some sucker buys it
mircea_popescu: "The problem inflationary currency bestows upon capital allocators is insolvable. They are given money of no certain value (pretty much the only sure thing about the paper currency is that it is, literally, burning in your hands, it ticks away like a bomb, it blows in the wind like dust - all this while you’re holding it) and have to do something with it. They always, always, always, absolutely always have more than
mircea_popescu: is in fact needed."
nubbins`: and even then, that only settles the question of what YOUR white tama was worth.
mircea_popescu: that "no certain value" is in there for a reason.
nubbins`: to one guy, even.
ThickAsThieves: I get it, I do, but this is not easy to communicate to normals
mircea_popescu: which is why normals can't make exchanges, or ipos, or etc.
mircea_popescu: nor can they understand WHY is it that you won't let them.
mircea_popescu: obviously, it's because scam and racist.
ThickAsThieves: why the fuck is the phenomenon that uneducated think complicated info is untrustworthy
mircea_popescu: if you think about it, that's the stable game-theoretic solution.
ThickAsThieves: like if i rant on all this to my mom, she'll think i'm a conspiracy theorist
mircea_popescu: what should your server do with requests it doesn't comprehend ? a. drop them b. anything else.
ThickAsThieves: well your server is a slave right
ThickAsThieves: it does what you tell it to
mircea_popescu: well it'd better not be enough of a whore to do anything any user tells it.
mircea_popescu: ideally it's your slave, as you have the ssh
nubbins`: are you asking why people don't trust things they don't understand? :(
ThickAsThieves: the risk with slaves!
ThickAsThieves: well i dont necessarily want to conversate about that aspect nubbins
asciilifeform: 'Postel's Law,' that historic mistake.
mircea_popescu: iirc jurov was trying some experiments with giving anon users root on the box or something
nubbins`: not much to converse about :D
nubbins`: or conversate, for that matter ;p
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually postel's is great for the web. it's just that the web is NOT great for "anything"
mircea_popescu: and that's what the fucktarded altchainers have been doing to the internet, try to make everything out of web
mircea_popescu: just like some insane dood at your favourite eatery, where you once had some marzipan and like it.
mircea_popescu: next time you visit it's all like "yo dawg! i hear yu like marzipan so now I made everything out of marzipan!
mircea_popescu: like... the steak. the milk. YOUR CHAIR"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik, postel's law came out of electronics, where you want to emit clear 'high' or 'low' voltage but do something other than choke & die if you're given a weird glitch (something in between)
mircea_popescu: make everything out of web, make everything out of blockchains, make everything out of etc.
ThickAsThieves: they in their own type of Kink High, let them play!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also a web-ish sort of situation.
asciilifeform: exactly. we had 'Muller's gate' in the '50s, with 'ready' signals. but nobody uses.
mircea_popescu: basically, <KRS-> has it : people actually want to be told
nubbins`: ugh, i find myself in the unenviable position of having funds in my paypal account that i wish to convert to btc
nubbins`: this has literally never happened before D:
ThickAsThieves: people want to be told > thus rely on trust > thus capitalism becomes great liar
mircea_popescu: nah, a model where 90% of the population trusts 10% in chunks of ~10 individuals, and then in turn and hten in turn
mircea_popescu: is pretty much the most stable thing in nature.
mircea_popescu: you need about a dozen or so tiers and you're golden.
mircea_popescu: the problem we have now is with the nationalist state of napoleon (and the us which is really just a pale copy) having successfully attacked this natural wot
mircea_popescu: with the result of 99.99999% trusting 0.00001%
mircea_popescu: with just one tier you're fucked.
ThickAsThieves: is it even possible to prevent?
mircea_popescu: it's a self-limiting condition.
mircea_popescu: and teh time's tick tock.
ThickAsThieves: i mean in general, is a wot's compromise inevitable
mircea_popescu: my read of history shows it is, yes.
mircea_popescu: game theory indicates it is, too
mircea_popescu: the nation model only emerges in situations where "the right thing" is plainly obvious
mircea_popescu: these are necessarily limited in time and exceptional.
ThickAsThieves: so the compromise of bitcoin is inevitable
mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?
ThickAsThieves: it is a wot, no?
ThickAsThieves: miners mining
ThickAsThieves: people trusting the ledger
nubbins`: ehh....
mircea_popescu: but look : ten people in boondocks, new jersey somewhere who heard of bitcoin are tier 1
mircea_popescu: they all know this guy down the street, and trust him cause he's cool
mircea_popescu: he's tier 2.
mircea_popescu: he knows of the wot, and keeps deals with some other people so he can buy/sell btc for his friends at home
ThickAsThieves: core devs core-developing ( i also shoulda have added )
mircea_popescu: 's a guy that knows the mall and escrows for them
mircea_popescu: that guy is tier 3
mircea_popescu: these guys kind-of know each other
ThickAsThieves: but you are just making that all upo
mircea_popescu: then one day mp wants to pay a girl in boondock, nj to wash his car with her tits
ThickAsThieves: i can make up tiers of compromise too
mircea_popescu: and the tier 3 guy goes "you know... you reall don't need to escrow mp
nubbins`: haha
nubbins`: "statistically speaking..."
mircea_popescu: im not making it up in that this has in fact happened.
ThickAsThieves: yes but it does not counter the inevitable
nubbins`: fun fact, the Salty Spitoon is a restaurant in the Spongebob Squarepants cartoon
mircea_popescu: what'd be the inevitable ThickAsThieves ?
twizt: ty nubbins`
ThickAsThieves: that trusts systems are compromised on some timescale
twizt: not knowing that really bothered me for the last few days ;)
ThickAsThieves: and i dont mean the earth exploding
nubbins`: i'm here to enlighten and occasionally mislead
mircea_popescu: i jus' don't see how this follows.
mircea_popescu: go into detail.
ThickAsThieves: for example
ThickAsThieves: i buy a GPU in tier 1, i mine,
ThickAsThieves: I buy an Erupter farm in tier 2
nubbins`: you can't be in both tiers
mircea_popescu: this doesn't seem to have anything to do with what i was saying
ThickAsThieves: my point is that parties will seek to exp.loit the trust system
mircea_popescu: not really.
nubbins`: i think this went off the rails when tat stated that bitcoin is a web of trust
mircea_popescu: do your beer mates try to trick you into paying for their beer ?
twizt: sometimes
mircea_popescu: right. parft of the definition of even beeing your mates
mircea_popescu: if they do you ditch them and get better ones.
mircea_popescu: now, suppose i need to evaluate 10mn beer drinkers.
mircea_popescu: can i do this ? how ?
twizt: or trick them into buying your weed
mircea_popescu: simple : i ask all the people who know people who pay beer tabs.
mircea_popescu: 3 tiers.
nubbins`: twizt, nobody falls for that trick
mircea_popescu: this is how i find women, incidentally. i don't go into bars.
mircea_popescu: i just know girls that know girls that know girls.
twizt: its like barter
twizt: i got ur cheap beer
twizt: u get me expensive weed
twizt: (well atleast in USA)
KRS-: I saw two dancers french kissing yesterday it was nice.
ThickAsThieves: we are zoomed in to different parts of the 'wot'
mircea_popescu: seems so.
ThickAsThieves: i never said trust cant be develped
ThickAsThieves: nor that a wot cant be trusted
nubbins`: twizt, weed costs about the same to grow as tomatoes
nubbins`: plant-for-plant
ThickAsThieves: simply that over time, a trust system breaks down
twizt: wish i could grow yo
mircea_popescu: it's more than trust, tho. it's about control.
ThickAsThieves: and bitcoin is probly no different
nubbins`: consider that an ounce of weed should cost the same as a dozen hothouse tomatoes
twizt: my life would be 100x easier
mircea_popescu: what people in your wot say controls what you do.
mircea_popescu: which makes the wot a distributed political system
mircea_popescu: it's just that "distributed" does not mean one to many, as the nationalist representation of bork would have it.
nubbins`: a wot is not a static thing
ThickAsThieves: and what if we vote into power the wrong powers
nubbins`: i could trust someone fully today
mircea_popescu: it means few to one which groups in few to one which groups in few to one etc.
nubbins`: and then tomorrow he tries to strike my wife
nubbins`: now i don't trust him at all
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves if YOU vote the wrong guy YOU are screwed.
nubbins`: and any wot in which we both exist has changed
ThickAsThieves: suppose bitfury has 66% of mining right now
mircea_popescu: this is kind-of the gist of the old mpoe-pr post re personal responsibility
ThickAsThieves: just in their back pocket
mircea_popescu: "if all idiots vote in the wot like it is a nationalistic election, you will get a wot that works like your fucking country"
nubbins`: i rate +3 the users i'm most likely to enjoy drinking a beer with"
nubbins`: feel free to add the missing " or remove the dangling one
nubbins`: tautology either way
twizt: sounds like a martingale to me
ThickAsThieves: another thing I have trouble with is how we can easily point out the problems with inflationary money, but when we discuss the problems with deflationary we stop at "well hopefully it calms down"
twizt: some people can be trust worthy 99% of the time, and the 1% of time they get sketchy
twizt: can out weigh the 99% of times they were 'good'
ThickAsThieves: last time it was a topic at least
mircea_popescu: this is not on my list. quote!
ThickAsThieves: plz hold
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9349 @ 0.00092721 = 8.6685 BTC [-]
nubbins`: aha! paypal bucks sent, btc received
nubbins`: honestly thought it'd take longer
deadweasel: cool, now you can say you never rec'd and get your cash back! ;)
nubbins`: heheh
nubbins`: nah, this is a guy who i've traded casascius coins with before
deadweasel: glad he was trustworthy, twice!
ThickAsThieves: [18:10] <ThickAsThieves> we're kinda saying all spending of bitcoin is bad business, right?
ThickAsThieves: [18:10] <mike_c> yes
ThickAsThieves: [18:11] <mircea_popescu> we're saying that the quick increase in the btc rate puts responsible, competent ceos in the position where they forego fiat deployments
ThickAsThieves: [18:11] <mircea_popescu> this is a major problem for bitcoin atm.
ThickAsThieves: [18:11] <ThickAsThieves> atm, or forever?
ThickAsThieves: [18:11] <mircea_popescu> no argument. which is why it's a problem.
ThickAsThieves: [18:11] <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves hopefully it settles down.
nubbins`: me too
nubbins`: he sent first, even :0
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves, mircea_popescu: all spending of btc is not bad business.
mircea_popescu: but this is an interfacing problem, not a deflation problem
mircea_popescu: you'd have the same difficulties if you landed in zimbabwe with a trunk full of dollars :
ThickAsThieves: does the interfacing problem exist without deflation?
mircea_popescu: you can't "invest" in zimbabwe until their failrency settles down
ThickAsThieves: does deflation "settle"?>
mircea_popescu: there is no deflation caught in that discussion at all.
ThickAsThieves: what amount of settling is likely or required?
mircea_popescu: it's just the fiat bubble bursting.
ThickAsThieves: same result no?
ThickAsThieves: when fiat bubble is done, will we not continue to deflate?
mircea_popescu: in the sense jumping out of a plane and having a piano fall on you yield the same result.
mircea_popescu: it's just that parachutes do little to protect you from falling objects.
ThickAsThieves: more like jumping off the earth vs out of a plan
nubbins`: it behooves one wealthy in btc to delay purchases/spending for as long as possible
ThickAsThieves: youll die from both
mircea_popescu: when the fiat bubble is gone we will actually deflate, but the effects of THAT are not judgeable by this.
nubbins`: but that's distinct from never spending at all
mircea_popescu: besides, bitcoin is hugely inflationary.
ThickAsThieves: but you wont land jumping off the earthj
mircea_popescu: much more so that fiat CLAIMS to be
mircea_popescu: see there, para I
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15390 @ 0.00093078 = 14.3247 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: do you believe the fiat bubble will actaully finish?
ThickAsThieves: how long?
mircea_popescu: what am i, mafalda ?
ThickAsThieves: well it seems like it drag out pretty far
mircea_popescu: hmm apparently this doesn't convert to english
mircea_popescu: anyway, mafalda was a late 1800s famous seer
ThickAsThieves: when i search i just get cartoons
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 432 @ 0.00293973 = 1.27 BTC [+] {11}
ThickAsThieves: i assumed she could tell the future
mircea_popescu: it's an actual historical person.
nubbins`: after skimming this article, i now understand
ThickAsThieves: i guess this conversation nullifies another question i had
nubbins`: you guys don't have paragraph breaks in romanian?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.04979777 = 0.1992 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: during the recent NY panels, we do they only mention volatility, and never bitcoin's deflationary problems
mircea_popescu: because they read trilema.
ThickAsThieves: which i guess i should reform to, why do they not worry about hoarding
ThickAsThieves: answer is, cuz there's nothing they can do about it
mircea_popescu: why do you think hoarding would be a problem ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 129 @ 0.00295299 = 0.3809 BTC [+] {3}
ThickAsThieves: wouldnt extreme hoarding cause more volatility?\
mircea_popescu: let's do the following mental experiment.
mircea_popescu: suppose the original satoshi prototype only had 2.1mn total bitcoin, and original block reward was 5 btc.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 90 @ 0.00295799 = 0.2662 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: what, if anything, do you think'd be different today ?
ThickAsThieves: core devs would add decimal places? :)
mircea_popescu: now, imagine a different situation, in which 18.9 mn bitcoins have been hoarded.
mircea_popescu: why would things be different ?
nubbins`: s/hoarded/saved
mircea_popescu: strictly because those 18.9 mn coins COULD BE SPENT. but if they're spent... they're no longer hoarded.
ThickAsThieves: well it leaves potential for intense volatility
mircea_popescu: hoarding is self limiting. you either hoard or matter.
mircea_popescu: yes. it does.
mircea_popescu: guess what ? intense volatility hurts large holders most.
mircea_popescu: yet another point of elegant beauty typical of satoshi designs.
asciilifeform: that's sorta like saying that falling out of an airplane sans parachute isn't really so bad, i fell out of my bed as a boy once
mircea_popescu: definitely intelligent design at work here.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which part you mean ?
asciilifeform: traditional argument - if enough of the hoard were dumped, one could see a catastrophic stampede
mircea_popescu: but it is in fact the people hoarding that have least interest to see this happen.
ThickAsThieves: then hoarding is just building a bubble
mircea_popescu: the incentives are correctly alligned, which is the absolute most you can say of any system
asciilifeform: well that would depend on who's hoarding and why
mircea_popescu: money perverts.
mircea_popescu: you can go into it thinking anything you wish
mircea_popescu: you'll come out of it thinking what it needs you to.
asciilifeform: 'nsa satoshi' hypothesis
ThickAsThieves: or anarchist satoshi
mircea_popescu: this is me doing the ny jew hand gesture.
ThickAsThieves: can't have trust as value without thinking everyone is out to get you!
mircea_popescu: and can't have sex as value without trying to hump vaguely calf-shaped electricity poles.
mircea_popescu: or perhaps...
mircea_popescu: anyway, take the nsa satoshi hypothesis. so the nsa spent 5mn making this thing, which we all embraced. as part of that expenditure it has premined 10mn BTC, which it kept, secretly. we don't know.
mircea_popescu: today at nsa headquarters, "sir, i would like to apply for permission to spend 10bn usd dollars in btc equivalent by dumpting our stash"
mircea_popescu: "we don't have 10bn in the budget. application denied."
jayk: hohoho
mircea_popescu: bitcoin, even should it have made by nsa, has actually taken it over.
ThickAsThieves: and for Anarcho Satoshi?
jayk: JP morgn wants to take it over
jayk: with their own version
ThickAsThieves: maybe i should make Satoshi was an Anarchist shirts, everyone will buy them thinking it's for the opposite reason
mircea_popescu: there's no way to ensure it won't be tat taking it over, with his own version.
ThickAsThieves: well thats obv
mircea_popescu: that's the problem here. bitcoin selects for and promotes some very narrow, specified things.
mircea_popescu: and it doesn't negotiate with terrorists.
mircea_popescu: for real, this time.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
mircea_popescu: (generally, the old adage goes, careful what you claim for yourself, you might live to meet it)
ThickAsThieves: we just say, careful what you wish for
ThickAsThieves: (you just might get it)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15000107 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: didnt Namworld buy that bitcoin shirt company?
mircea_popescu: ya but i like mine better.
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if he'll do it for real
jayk: before the banks accept bitcoin, they are trying to start their own version, like jp morgan is doing
ThickAsThieves: i just dont buy that
ThickAsThieves: no corp will make a coin anytime soon
ThickAsThieves: theyd have to be horribly out of touch
ThickAsThieves: like OracleCoin
ThickAsThieves: pretty much only Google or the USG could do it
Duffer1: you're talking about bankers here
Duffer1: horribly out of touch is their slogan
jurov: amazon alluded to it (maybe unintentionally)
mircea_popescu: a bank could od a very respectable coin.
ThickAsThieves: they arent so out of touch that they would sell something no one would buy
jurov: but that wouldn't be bad step
mircea_popescu: problem is, it'd need diametric's hr. which they dont have.
Duffer1: i fully expect jpmorgan or somesuch to ipo an alt coin then bet against it
jayk: i expect someone like netflix to offer payments in bitcoin soon
ThickAsThieves: USG probly wont even let a bank make its own money
Duffer1: sure they could do a respectable coin
ThickAsThieves: netflix wont accept btc in 2014
jayk: publicity stunt
jayk: drive theit stock up
jayk: yes
ThickAsThieves: they have enough momentum without it
ThickAsThieves: they wouldnt wanna compromise
jayk: $$$
jayk: it works
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it wouldn't have to be an us bank.
mircea_popescu: fun fact : at the time the amsterdam bank rose to prominence, the thing that propelled it was its marginality
ThickAsThieves: they likely learned their lesson about confusing their audience when they announced that new thing that never happened
ThickAsThieves: what was it
mircea_popescu: specifically, small countries had problems with their clipped/worn currency
mircea_popescu: in general, a small outlier could take over the entire world economy by doing something smart like this.
jayk: overstock has gone up $15 in 1year
jayk: they now accept bitcoin dont they
ThickAsThieves: that outlier would have to have some way to get trust and establish a blockchain
ThickAsThieves: like google putting its own into Android
mircea_popescu: no. like getting the ok of someone in the space with enough authortiy to ok it.
mircea_popescu: problem being, of course, the space is full of fakers, and otherwise insanely expensive.
ThickAsThieves: so what wot do they use?
mircea_popescu: one of those "pay through the nose or waste your money" sort of situations which institutions handle so poorly.
jayk: superbowl wifi password broadcasted on national tv
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23080 @ 0.00092721 = 21.4 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: oh yeah thats today huh
Duffer1: wow..
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: "Interesting fact: $1 million dollars weighs 10kg exactly"
ThickAsThieves: finally found a qay to quantify dollars!
jayk: i placed my first bitbet, mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: lol i wonder what on
jayk: snowden
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12428 @ 0.00092636 = 11.5128 BTC [-] {2}
Mats_cd03: 1mil or $10,099
mircea_popescu: he was better in flawless.
mircea_popescu: wtf is capote.
ThickAsThieves: why do celebs do heroine anyway? they spent all the other indulgences?
benkay`: "We won't be issuing another series for a while, nor will we be making further attempts to support seemingly "worthy" or "credible" "financiers" for a while, mostly because we're running out of quotes."
mircea_popescu: waithat ?!
benkay`: old gold is all
ThickAsThieves: when will mpex buy Ukyo & Graet debt?
benkay`: quick on the trigger you are today, ThickAsThieves
mircea_popescu: lol 2012
mircea_popescu: can't believe that chick's been building the snark since two years ago, and yet last month's noobs still "ambush" her
jurov: for anyone who did not follow it very closely
mircea_popescu: Feb 01 16:41:24 <ThickAsThieves>getting my hands on the source will be Altcoin's "2 weeks" << did you ?
ThickAsThieves: still waiting
benkay`: mircea_popescu: i don't see the hash options on your list of closed mpex assets
benkay`: drop the footnote link etc
mircea_popescu: becayuse theyre still on neh ?
nubbins`: TheTrueHOOHA is actually a better name than DPR
mircea_popescu: $vwap X.IDIFF.JUN
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
mircea_popescu: well, they are.
blg: HOOHA sounds very sexual
nubbins`: looks very sexual too
benkay`: what, you tryna tell me an option to buy hashes is a future diff?
blg: nubbins`: lol
benkay`: (diff future i mean)
benkay`: i'm really just being a pedant here
jurov: benkay` id right, it was distinct from today's futures
jurov: *is
mircea_popescu: jesus yeah, there was a distinct set that died horribly. ie, with the mm taking it up the ass.
benkay`: just from the pedants perspective that asset series closed
mircea_popescu: see, you're adding value already.
mircea_popescu: now go make a post.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9470 @ 0.0009272 = 8.7806 BTC [+]
benkay`: when did that series close?
mircea_popescu: i don't remember.
jurov: try archive.org
nubbins`: ` is so trendy these days
mircea_popescu: (dude this is so cool, i'ma do a series of i don't remember / i don't recall and be just like a real banker nao!)
nubbins`: jurov wins, benkay, you're out
mircea_popescu: benkay seriously tho, im pretty sure it was in a mpoe report. prolly died summer 2013 ?
benkay: this is the point at which i decide to archive all mpoe reports
nubbins`: but if you do that, what are you gonna spend your credits on?
benkay: learning romanian duh
nubbins`: makes about as much sense as learning spanish just to read cien años de soledad, i guess
````: doesn't copying content from trilema need consent written by a sharpie which is then put into the ass?
mircea_popescu: more sense than learning spanish to talk to the maid.
benkay: french is next on the docket
mircea_popescu: ```` as long as he doesn't distribute it...
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, i actually met someone who was doing that once
nubbins`: (for the book, not the maid)
mircea_popescu: i met both
mircea_popescu: my mother learned greek to read kavafis
nubbins`: TBH even in english it's beautiful, beautiful prose
nubbins`: i can't even imagine what it's like in the original language
benkay: the answer is August 2012, for those who care.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00093231 = 5.0345 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: so summer indeed. wrong year, but hey.
ThickAsThieves: me: "How is it 2pm already?""
ThickAsThieves: wife: "You are a furry mess."
mircea_popescu: now rant at her about high finance
mircea_popescu: as if that makes it ok "no but honey til!"
ThickAsThieves: "Yeah well your dollars are turning into dust!"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 93 @ 0.00295799 = 0.2751 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 45 @ 0.003 = 0.135 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: basically bitcoin got attacked in 2013 by the most unlikely of sources : the dieing start-up circus.
mircea_popescu: most nobody even noticed, or cared. except for the finest tuned of watchdogs or w/e
benkay: attacked?
mircea_popescu: well yes.
mircea_popescu: "There are more transactions of the cryptocurrency than Bitcoin, although it is only worth a tiny fraction of Bitcoin."
mircea_popescu: it's quite clear if you do aggregate counting.
mircea_popescu: they are attacking bitcoin. perhaps in the manner an ant attacks a rhino, but nevertheless. as far as the ant is concerned, in its own system of representations, that's what's going on.
benkay: entertaining and all but from the ants perspective how is what they're doing an attack?
mircea_popescu: ant will kill rhino, skin it, wear the skin as king of the jungle.
benkay: like 'i am startup and will rule all the buttcorns'?
mircea_popescu: because if you get more fuckwits to retweet your inane shit you will thus therefore be "bigger" and "more important" than people with fewer retweets.
mircea_popescu: it's web start-up brain rot, quite typical.
mircea_popescu: in principle, every circlejerk imagines itself "the only thing out there". like, the us thinks it's "the world". any us court thinks it has universal jurisdiction. any us politician thinks that his decisions matter universally.
mircea_popescu: the va circus, as hopelessly fucked as they are, imagine that "all entrepreneurship" is... well... them.
mircea_popescu: that they will be crushed by much larger things that exist independent of their knowledge or understanding is about as aliento them as mpex customers to jimmothey
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15999999 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: so basically what we have here, is "everyone" in the sense of "everyone that goes to tech conferences in SF and reads techcrunch religiously" figures they can take over this novel idea.
````: i can vaguely recall some very negative sentiment on ycombinator and else
mircea_popescu: ;;google ycombinator jointly and severally
gribble: Ycombinator continues to suck, jointly and severally : Bitcoin - Reddit: <http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/19en4a/ycombinator_continues_to_suck_jointly_and/>; Series AA Stock Purchase Agreement - Y Combinator: <http://ycombinator.com/seriesaa/Series_AA_SPA.docx>; European reforms are not enough, joint liability needed: <http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/12/european-reforms- (1 more message)
````: then the silicon valley bank deal came (which ended nowhere)
mircea_popescu: there you go.
benkay: well sv bank can hardly be thought of as a high finance operation
benkay: they do payroll and what have you
mircea_popescu: anyway. an attack it is.
mircea_popescu: ironically, while the correct move may seem to be to support ltc to crush them back into the swamp,
mircea_popescu: the actual correct move is to simply support other alternatives to burn their underbase.
mircea_popescu: you want them to eat ltc's lunch to some degree, much like you want about 50 other groups to start their own, doge-food eating bitcoin killers.
mircea_popescu: so you know... ATC/ALT getting more hash than doge serves a good purpose in the end.
mircea_popescu: (funny how nobody seems to have noticed that, too :p)
ThickAsThieves: so what you're saying is Altcoin really is the first altcoin with a purpose
mircea_popescu: hehe. myeah.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.16 = 0.48 BTC [+]
````: woooo what a plot
jayk: a
jayk: :|
mircea_popescu: You see dear Internet, Juraj Variny was a simple country boy... you might say a cockeyed optimist, who got himself mixed up in the high stakes game of world diplomacy and international intrigue.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.16 BTC [+]
jurov: better go back to milk goats
benkay: goat tits
mircea_popescu: you can never go back.
jayk: goat milk is will keep you alive for weeks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.165 BTC [+]
jayk: -is
jurov: only for weeks? afaik it's retty complete nutrition
jurov: *pretty :)
jayk: you might get sick of it and prefer to die
mircea_popescu: needs some slibowitz
jurov: ^^
jayk: ovaltine
KRS-: Mmm plum brandy?
KRS-: Humans are the only animal who natually drink another animal's milk.
KRS-: Although cats enjoy milk from cows, its not like they would get it in the wild.
mircea_popescu: cats do too if they can get it.
jayk: my cat is afraid of ducks
jurov: no duck milk for her, then.
benkay: cats are filthy scavenging vermin
jayk: lol
benkay: undomesticated to boot
ThickAsThieves: blasphemy
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.174 BTC [+]
benkay: get thee hence
jurov: *#b-assets erupts into riots caused by unkind remark about cats*
benkay: listen i expect my dependents to honor my every desire and worship at my feet
benkay: women are hard enough to domesticate
benkay: cats are impossible
ThickAsThieves: for example?
mircea_popescu: srsly, cats aren't that bad.
mircea_popescu: much like women, they autodomesticate if you're cool.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 18 @ 0.00574444 = 0.1034 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: oh you
mircea_popescu: you may occasionally have to throw one out the window into traffic, but w/e
mircea_popescu: what's it cost, 200 bux tops.
ThickAsThieves: pretty much if you get a cat while its impressionable, make a good impression, it is a great pet
ThickAsThieves: sometimes you get crazy ones
chipug: same with women
mircea_popescu: pretty much.
mircea_popescu: most mistreated cats will actually also come to sanity
ThickAsThieves: maybe, but those are also void of personality
mircea_popescu: they're not that stupid to not be able to tell the difference, just need some time to decompress
mircea_popescu: nah, not rly.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.175 BTC [+]
benkay: perhaps its that i live in america where men don't know how to handle women or cats and so all cats i encounter are of the 'let me out now let me in now let me piss on your rug' variety
ThickAsThieves: the only cat I have problems with is the wanna-be alpha that keeps attacking the smallest female
punkman: cats are assholes
mircea_popescu: benkay so take a kitten and raise it separately.
ThickAsThieves: well thats your first problem benkay
ThickAsThieves: dont let cats outside
benkay: i am not maintaining a shitbox.
ThickAsThieves: get a maid
benkay: i am not paying someone to maintain a shitbox in my residence.
ThickAsThieves: you cant both have time for the finer things AND do everything yourseldf
benkay: i am not having fucking absorbent chemically impregnated who knows the fuck what scattered all about my living space
benkay: finer things, in my case, are dogs.
ThickAsThieves: like those dont stink or need to go outside?
benkay: works with my personal proclivities marginally better
benkay: you know, like going outside
benkay: all living things stink
Bones: I'm a dog man myself, but benkay you still have a yard full of shit. Now what?
ThickAsThieves: all dead things stink too
benkay: i personally walk my dog
benkay: why on earth would i have a yard!?
benkay: or a house!?
benkay: sounds like a great deal of overhead.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00093239 = 11.0022 BTC [+] {2}
Bones: So you would rather pick up shit than clear a shitbox. To each their own I suppose?
ThickAsThieves: lol, sounds like a joke
ThickAsThieves: I don't want a house, too much over head
benkay: Bones: did you miss the part where the shit is in your living space in one of those scenarios? or does that not matter to you?
mircea_popescu: he lives on a hilltop.
mircea_popescu: benkay i got news for you. the stuff that makes beer good ? it's shit, man. little craps taking a doodoo in your drink.
benkay: oh its chemistry o'clock nao
mircea_popescu: bread chiefly consists of other species' farts.
jurov: and fish piss into drinking water
ThickAsThieves: what is the proper daily dose of cat shit?
mircea_popescu: #bitcoin-assets grossout party ftw.
benkay: is this an elegant demonstration of the modern practice of saying things are other things cause words and derp?
mircea_popescu: we;re like preteen girlies over here.
Bones: lolpoop
benkay: look i farted - now you have my poo particles in your mouth
ThickAsThieves: benkay, we're just making you pay the price of hating on the world's most loved animal
benkay: what, women?
mircea_popescu: he hated on anteaters ?!
ThickAsThieves: this is serious business ladies!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5500001 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ok Chickasschivas.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.55 BTC [-]
benkay: i like the little recoil and pouty face
benkay: not terribly effectively though
mircea_popescu: the thing with goat is that he's pretty much azn
mircea_popescu: he does a superficial 1st take of anything and leaves it at that.
mircea_popescu: other than that he;s just persistent. pretty much his whole strat.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.24310363 = 0.9724 BTC
benkay: not a terribly bad strategy so long as he allocates correctly on his +ev options
mircea_popescu: it takes a particular sort of scum to actually apply it tho.
mircea_popescu: more adequate to whoring out anyway. i guess as an older guy he can't enjoy that where he is, so what's one to do.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.0288 = 0.1152 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: question, if i take the source from a different coingen package, is that not the same thing as what i need
ThickAsThieves: since we need to reverese engineer from genesis block anyway
benkay: aw man
benkay: the -assets altcoin doesn't have source in the wild. that's hilarious.
ThickAsThieves: well it was a whim
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what is the problem there anyway
ThickAsThieves: my guess, it's the weekend
benkay: "a thing worth doing is worth doing well"
mircea_popescu: you never know when your whim coallesces into a schelling point.
ThickAsThieves: kill all the whimsy!
benkay: life is dead serious
benkay: be serious or be dead
mircea_popescu: this is why satoshi ran off
mircea_popescu: he couldn't cope with responsibilities of fatherhood.
mircea_popescu: deadbeatdadscoin
ThickAsThieves: smart man
mircea_popescu: ^ think about it. the coin to pay all alinomy in. utterly worthless coin everyone loves
mircea_popescu: FOR THAT REASON
ThickAsThieves: it is interesting though, how much work it really takes these days to promote a coin
mircea_popescu: i wonder if she just killed yet another thread or else we get epic butthurt
ThickAsThieves: but back to my orginal question
ThickAsThieves: if i get other coingen'd source
ThickAsThieves: can we work from it?
ThickAsThieves: i assume itd need to be a SHA256 coin
mircea_popescu: possibly. you'll need the original block details tho
mircea_popescu: which you should be able to have a miner dump
ThickAsThieves: pankakke mined it
mircea_popescu: then i have no doubt pankake can do by hand whatever's done automatically by coingen.
mircea_popescu: which... sucks for him.
pankkake: from what I see with bernankoin, all the details of the genesis block are in block 0 too
ThickAsThieves: i'll pay
mircea_popescu: why, cause it's work.
pankkake: it's annoying, lol
ThickAsThieves: so annoying you wouldnt do it?
mircea_popescu: pankkake you want to make a better coingen.io ?
pankkake: making that thing work was half my "development" time
mircea_popescu: with incorporated market (so all your new coins can be INSTA traded for al lothers ?)
mircea_popescu: that may actually be a revenu driver.
pankkake: maybe, not sure if it's worth the time
ThickAsThieves: insta pools, etc
mircea_popescu: hard to guess, maybe a few bitcoins a month.
pankkake: yes, it has to provide exchange
ThickAsThieves: likely what the new owners of coingenio plan to do...
mircea_popescu: you can definitely sink the coingen thing, from what my research shows bluematt sold it to an idiot.
mircea_popescu: and you can blow cryptsy right out of the water, because in is wholly manned by idiots
ThickAsThieves: mp if you put money into such i thing i will too
mircea_popescu: (check out their hiring page sometime for lulz)
ThickAsThieves: who was it that had the exchange
ThickAsThieves: maybe we start with that
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic ?
ThickAsThieves: bt-x or something
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic baby, can you code ?
mircea_popescu: the beauty of #bitcoin-assets. businesses just fall in your lap all the time
mircea_popescu: to the degree one can't humanly cope.
pankkake: yeah :|
mircea_popescu: and also, benkay, you doing anything other than blogging and fucking your cat these days ?
mircea_popescu: cause a CLOJURE driven altcoin maker + exchange would be so fucking cool
benkay: dealing with the ungodly long enterprise sales cycle is all
benkay: oh god stop
mircea_popescu: nosrsly.
mircea_popescu: read the log
benkay: oh i have
benkay: let's do it in clojure you guys
benkay: someone knock together a reasonable ownership structure
pankkake: altcoin creator + exchange + seed nodes + pool
pankkake: set up an api for middlecoin
mircea_popescu: benkay you just put in all the work, then we list x% on mpex and people can invest.
mircea_popescu: let the market sort out the ownership structure.
ThickAsThieves: later we partner with fiverr for logo designers
benkay: i hate working for free
blg: 99designs is good too
benkay: HATE
ThickAsThieves: he maybe we need to make a bitcoin fiverr too
mircea_popescu: a that's a point.
mircea_popescu: well, how much do you want to be paid to altcoin creator + exchange + seed nodes + pool ?
pankkake: altcoin singularity
blg: 1000 btc
benkay: that's a great big fuck off pile of work
benkay: ;;calc 1000*800
gribble: 800000
mircea_popescu: blg what do you think this is, testnet btc ?
blg: 15:33 < mircea_popescu> well, how much do you want to be paid to altcoin creator + exchange + seed nodes + pool ?
blg: i was answering that question
ThickAsThieves: he was too
blg: then i dont get the reference
blg: sorry
ThickAsThieves: he's saying will you be paid in monopoly btc?
blg: oh lol
ThickAsThieves: cmon it really cant cost $1m to make such thing
blg: i have no problems turning monopoly in to real
ThickAsThieves: just buy the existing pieces
blg: well you have to buy a good programmer for the alt coin
benkay: ahaha
benkay: ho
ThickAsThieves: blg you misunderstand
benkay: tee hee
blg: i didnt read the scrollback at all once again i apologize
pankkake: the cost would be mostly having to run each coin daemon/pool
pankkake: otherwise, everything is automated
pankkake: well I don't know how to automate the windows build
benkay: yeah we skip windows build
mircea_popescu: automate the windows build IN CLOJURE
benkay: no.
mircea_popescu: come on, if this isn't sexy i dunno what is.
pankkake: no people are mad if there is no windows
benkay: really?
mircea_popescu: must has windows. this is altscams here.
mircea_popescu: nobody even knows what linux is in that subforum
pankkake: yes. first posts of bernankoin :(
Duffer1: the world isn't ready for MP coin ^.^
ThickAsThieves: help us centralize decentralization
Duffer1: still rely on windows deployment for mass adoption
mircea_popescu: coelho has warped ThickAsThieves' brain to the degree i don't know when he's paraquoting anymore.
benkay: windows over os x?
mircea_popescu: you kidding ?
mircea_popescu: you can't buy osx ready systems on food stamps.
benkay: no i have no idea about altcoin mkt
benkay: oh i see welfarecoin
benkay: (s)
pankkake: what's next, KentuckyFriedCoin?
ThickAsThieves: maybe with contract with USG for UScoin
benkay: okay so concerns
benkay: i don't want to run this
lippoper: we should make a pizzacoin
benkay: more than happy to set up servers etc but it must be actually run by not me
ThickAsThieves: well it should run wherever whomever knows best thinks it should
benkay: location is another concern i want delegated to capitalizers of operation
mircea_popescu: what's "location" ?
ThickAsThieves: of servers
benkay: well there's an altcoin market involved right?
mircea_popescu: if he doesn't run it how exactly could he establish location
mircea_popescu: benkay altcoin-to-coin stricjtly.
mircea_popescu: we don't encourage the use of scamfiat.
benkay: ofc
benkay: so needs dedi
mircea_popescu: definitely.
blg: mircea_popescu: i'm PM'ing you if that's ok
mircea_popescu: you'll be herp-ddos'd all the time too. needs a decent dedi.
mircea_popescu: go ahead
benkay: colo with mpex?
mircea_popescu: then again this could easily live in the cloud.
mircea_popescu: prolly better that way as you'll have inelastic loads lal the time
benkay: no way are you suggesting putting wallets on virtual instances
mircea_popescu: why not /
jurov: benkay: no way you are suggesting putting wallets on frontend webserver
benkay: right
benkay: oh well sure web heads are virtualized
mircea_popescu: so they'r evirtual. what of it ? so are you. backup well, be happy.
jurov: and amazon does offer persistent storage since 2 years ago or so
benkay: talking about different things here
mircea_popescu: jurov you wanna host this ?
benkay: i'm talking about linode-style virtualization compromises of wallets
mircea_popescu: benkay no because they can't read CLOJURE
jurov: and i'm asking why does one need zero-latency wallet access
benkay: one doesn't, jurov
jurov: it can happily live 50ms away
benkay: mp stoppit
mircea_popescu: what, are you trying to put a CLOJURE on my expression ?
benkay: ermergerhd
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 67 @ 0.003 = 0.201 BTC [+]
benkay: playing my biases so obviously just puts my hackles up
mircea_popescu: no, this is a legitimate business angle.
mircea_popescu: we'll just os the entire thing.
mircea_popescu: get a buncha fucktarded kids try to learn clojure to make their own market thing.
benkay: well, it's just lisp so they shouldn't have too hard of a time
mircea_popescu: so you think.
mircea_popescu: windows lips compiler ?
benkay: agqreiuhglerjbgaksdljbfsd
mircea_popescu: preferably as a python module ?
mircea_popescu: can you compile lisp in python run on linux via cygwin ?
asciilifeform: (how many people keep a flame war strong for ~5 yrs)
mircea_popescu: (provided of course you use ALL CAPS in the code)
jurov: only with javascript and node emulation layer
mircea_popescu: jurov you mean they could get this in phpmyadmin ?
asciilifeform: write it in INTERCAL.
mircea_popescu: cause that'd help, they know phpmyadmin
jurov: implemented in haskell
mircea_popescu: but all the fun aside, srsly, a foss clojure implementation of this would actually be a great thing.
benkay: so: dev priorities then
Namworld: What the heck is this you are all talking about? Some retarted process that equals job security because you're then the only one able to update and maintain the business apps and software?
benkay: coingen, exchange, poolgen?
mircea_popescu: Namworld im trying to give the kid a breadloaf and he;'s trying to price himself out of it.
mircea_popescu: like all business ever.
benkay: exchange, coingen, poolgen?
mircea_popescu: benkay all 4 are needed out of the gate.
mircea_popescu: anyway, from what i read of lisp it is very productive and should be easy if you know what you're doing so like 500 lines of code.
benkay: what's number 4?
benkay: ah seeds
Jere_Jones: "Just a couple of if statements"
mircea_popescu: Jere_Jones i know bunches of ppl who freelance, right ? "plz build me a better brain. should be easy if you know what you're doing'. 90% of all projects.
asciilifeform: intercal, i tell ya. what other language has a 'come from' statement.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basic read backwards ?
Jere_Jones: mircea_popescu: I'm in process of writting an exchange and the devil is in the details. Anyway, that was a joke from a manager that I used to have where everything was simple and just needed a "couple of if statements".
KRS-: Oh cool, another coin.
KRS-: http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/150/6
mircea_popescu: another coin, another dolla.
KRS-: Other currencies, like Bitcoin, use dumb hard coded ‘mining’ processes that produces coins at a fixed rate that can’t change.
pankkake: oh god another DAC. where is the code, how is it supposed to work, stfu
ThickAsThieves: the longer we take to get to the altcoin singularity, the less bitcoins we can make off it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2425 @ 0.00011977 = 0.2904 BTC [+]
jurov: all this ruckus.. just use some mature language supported by IDE with proper visual debugger
mircea_popescu: and meanwhile, i invite you all to a sing-along!
jurov: does clojure has it?
KRS-: This is really odd.
mircea_popescu: yes actually
jurov: php does not to this day (except some commercial ones)
pankkake: IDEs? visual debuggers? real men don't use that
jayk: mircea_popescu: how many companies do you have active
jurov: we are not talking about real men
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00011978 = 0.5989 BTC [+]
pankkake: next you're going to tell me you use a MOUSE
mircea_popescu: jayk a number thereof. i need an accountant for an exact count. why ?
jayk: curious i know of mpex and bitbet
mircea_popescu: a public btc corps, 4
KRS-: ThickAsThieves can you describe the altcoin singularity? I'm not sure what to make of all this coin sillyness.
jayk: oic
jurov: pankkake you use coinbr in lynx?
jayk: i signed up for mpex i will study it later
pankkake: I use pentadactyl
mircea_popescu: not any rush
ThickAsThieves: i dont think i wanna subject this channel to me describing it
KRS-: link?
benkay: jurov: it's called emacs
mircea_popescu: fuck i lost my drink
mircea_popescu: what is this world coming to.
jayk: oh
jayk: i dont drink
mircea_popescu: well now neither do i.
jayk: hah
jayk: superbowl time
jayk: bbl
pankkake: altcoin singularity = you only need to input parameters, exchange, pool comes online, middlecoin mines it and sells it
mircea_popescu: and sends you a report of how much profit it made.
mircea_popescu: and an animated gif of the champagne.
mircea_popescu: it's all very virtual.
benkay: has anyone here built an altcoin from source?
jurov: benkay i'm visual person and do bes with actual shapes, not just screenful of text
KRS-: an easier way to get BTC because of the inflated value?
jayk: benkay: i have a link for you
jayk: if you want to
mircea_popescu: benkay iirc pankkake has.
jayk: coingen.io
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2425 @ 0.000119 = 0.2886 BTC [-]
jayk: or there is a free verison but it might give yoau headache
mircea_popescu: omg ppls read the log.
benkay: free version of coingen?
benkay: can't say as i know what you're going on about.
jayk: i think he charges .05?
jayk: oh ok nvm
benkay: go watch your sportsball.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22778 @ 0.00093295 = 21.2507 BTC [+] {2}
benkay: asciilifeform: it's a turd, but it ain't java.
ThickAsThieves: ;;ud singularity
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=singularity | singularity. A point in time at which, theoretically, technological progress accelerates exponentially, such that nothing taking place follwing said point can be ...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3022 @ 0.00093379 = 2.8219 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: predicted
ThickAsThieves: tonight, we dine on lunch!
KRS-: Thanks mircea_popescu
jayk: oh
benkay: going afk for a bit gents
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.099 = 0.594 BTC [+]
jayk: you dont like that
jayk: guy
benkay: also mircea_popescu save me from myself and help me not price myself out
ThickAsThieves: thats easy
ThickAsThieves: just say what it really costs
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1185 = 0.237 BTC [+]
benkay: requires knowing how long it really takes
ThickAsThieves: or estimation thereof
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
pankkake: I seems like an awful lot
pankkake: many different things
benkay: such moving parts
ThickAsThieves: it's a whole business really
ThickAsThieves: not just a dev project
benkay: 's why i keep saying stop saying clojure to mp
mircea_popescu: it is a lot of work, yes. that's part of why it's worth doing, it always pays to sink your teeth in and do a fundamental bit well than try and chew a little off the edges.
ThickAsThieves: needs ongoing work too
benkay: how is the relationship with kakobrekla set up for ongoing work on bitbet?
pankkake: writing the exchange can be fun. the rest… eh
mircea_popescu: he got half the equity.
benkay: so he's incentivized to ship more to improve his profits
mircea_popescu: he's incentivised to have the thing running smoothly., which it has been.
benkay: i actually think setting up build servers would be fun
mircea_popescu: and that too was a lot of work, even if not necessarily obvious immediately.
benkay: uptime's a thing, yes
benkay: back in a few
turbo_ac100: Weren't all No bets on 'BitBet haxxed in 2013' supposed to be refunded and not paid out?
mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 yeah.
dub: uptime is 13 years, 31 weeks, 3 days, 20 hours, 29 minutes
mircea_popescu: dub your c0k ?
jayk: did kakobrekla make the appl mistake?
turbo_ac100: But the were paid. Gift from kakobrekla I suppose. Thanks.
mircea_popescu: dub but srsly, you wanna host things ?
dub: fuck no
mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 make sure to make a thread about how bitbet's been scamming users tho.
dub: I just draw pictures, actual work is for monkeys
nubbins`: heh, ^
mircea_popescu: the paradox of honestly : idiots fucking up will amply report how it's all your fault. when you fuck up and you cover it... well... nobody really wants to mention it, cause w/e, kinda embarassing.
dub: what needs hosting?
mircea_popescu: the future of stupidity!
turbo_ac100: kakobrekla is scamming himself; not enough troll food in that one, sadly
mircea_popescu: turbo_ac100 exactly.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.24310363 = 2.1879 BTC
nubbins`: "Listings for virtual currency are not permitted on the ebay.ca site and this category will be removed on February 10, 2014. You may continue to list these items on the ebay.com site in the Coins & Paper Money>Virtual Currency category in the Classified Ad format only."
dub: wat
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.00082017 = 0.8202 BTC [+] {5}
ThickAsThieves: you wanna sell this garbage, go to america!
dub: I thought ebay.uk was adding virtual currency category onfeb 10
mircea_popescu: it's all very complicated.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 6500 @ 0.00011978 = 0.7786 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00093192 = 8.3407 BTC [-]
jurov: bitstamp got hdd failure?
jurov: or what?
jurov: or they ran out of power in slovenia?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18050 @ 0.00093379 = 16.8549 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: apparently slovenia has an issue
mircea_popescu: kako ran out of juice earlier
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.04800011 = 0.336 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18551 @ 0.00093102 = 17.2714 BTC [-] {2}
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: i hadnt really planned to make it into a blog post, but duffer1 asked if i had and i thought maybe it might be interesting to see what happens if i put it in a blog post :P ...whats wrong with blogspot?
mircea_popescu: it sucks omg!
mircea_popescu: seriously, get a blog you control.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.169 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: very specific of you :P
mircea_popescu: you don't want some random idiots with a "here's a link to our other stuff" on your page,
mircea_popescu: you don't want to be stuck if you want to move domains,
mircea_popescu: you don't want anyone deciding if and when to put a "warning page" on your material,
mircea_popescu: you don't want them filtering your comments, or generally,
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
mircea_popescu: you don't want to help google in any way whatsoever unless it's paying for it.
mircea_popescu: do your own things.
herbijudlestoids: i think im ok with most of those things, and i feel like as long as there is no ads on the site then its probably costing google more than they are making off me in analytics
mircea_popescu: i'm never going to comment on it, for instance.
herbijudlestoids: im sure in the cases where iv said something stupid enough to warrant your comment, ill hear about it from gribble anyway :P
mircea_popescu: entirely possible.
mircea_popescu: all hitler needs is for ordinary people to keep using google.
punkman: we need Mircea Popescu's Search Engine
mircea_popescu: nah, let them do that.
jayk: 卍
mircea_popescu: just don't help them do other things. buy ford cars, don't buy ford umbrellas.
punkman: the Android AIDS is spreading pretty fast
jayk: android aids?
herbijudlestoids: so basically i gotta go and setup fkn wordpress and buy a domain just to write some blogs i didnt originally intend to write lol
herbijudlestoids: yea i think ill pass
punkman: you can just pastebin it
punkman: beats blogspot
mircea_popescu: pretty much anything beats blogspot.
mircea_popescu: pankkake see, there's the usercase
mircea_popescu: assets-blog
herbijudlestoids: well i would prefer pastebin but it doesnt let me insert content like images and equations
mircea_popescu: can you put a wordpress.com clone on the assass ?
pankkake: you're just switching evil google by evil MP
mircea_popescu: there's a difference in evil. @mp you can scream.
pankkake: WP.com is open source too, but… it's work to maintain it. I don't see the point
mircea_popescu: the point of work is control.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: i showed your blog to a few people over the weekend, they *all* asked if the guy in the photo with the beard is me
herbijudlestoids: i kind of look like that
herbijudlestoids: (especially when im bearded)
mircea_popescu: "if your daddy doesn't have a beard you have two moms"
pankkake: I do host my own blogs, but it takes time, sometimes I fuck up, etc. I don't want to do that for other people
mircea_popescu: pankkake why not ? the more you fuck up for other people the more you have reason to love them.
pankkake: no, and I have done it before
herbijudlestoids: so between posting the blog article here and on reddit i managed to drive 180 views to the article
herbijudlestoids: interesting
mircea_popescu: no, see ?
pankkake: also needs backups that are dead man proof
KRS-: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wu6je/bitcoin_investment_55_450_daily_for_80_days_lets/
ozbot: Bitcoin Investment - 55% - 450% DAILY FOR 80 DAYS. Lets make Bitcoin the international currency norm
mircea_popescu: six months down the road you will be kicking yourself.
KRS-: seems legit
mircea_popescu: pankkake ppl can backup their own shit in wp.
pankkake: hm, right
pankkake: with wordpress.COM too by the way :p
KRS-: If Russia makes BTC illegal with all businesses and financial institutions what market value hit do you think we'd see? 10%?
pankkake: so you can always chose to go elsewhere easily
mircea_popescu: KRS- + more likely than -
herbijudlestoids: wihle i was on reddit last night i saw someone with a thread about how mtgox was going to bust soon, they apparently have even stopped btc withdrawals?
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids they've been dead man walking since april 2013.
jurov: KRS- negative govt recognition always helps
mircea_popescu: other than the penny ante noobs not rly anybody still using them as best one can determine
KRS-: what rly
KRS-: wouldnt a ton of coin be dumped by those who cant use it anymore
mircea_popescu: what are you, 12?
KRS-: Wouldnt the supply increase?
mircea_popescu: the last thing someone does in a jurisdiction that made btc illegal is dump it
KRS-: oh it does the opposite
Dimsler_: no they wouldn't
TATonawalk: added thoughts on bitcoin fiverr - integrate with wot to manage reputation. package that integration method as an identity service for other cryptobizzes. handholding the masses into compliance and get paid for it.
Dimsler_: thats just silly
Dimsler_: you can apply that to prohibition in the US
Dimsler_: and the war on drugs
Dimsler_: nobody was dumping anything
mircea_popescu: TATonawalk adding to the workload at this point is stupid. let it be simple.
KRS-: makes sense..sorry for my ignorance.
jurov: rly. if govt wanted to tax it instead, that could cause some problem.
TATonawalk: just sharing
mircea_popescu: KRS- dun feel too bad
KRS-: Its cool..I don't mind learning..I'm an IT guy with a business degree, I actually should know better.
benkay: i was perusing a buddy's lady's business textbook
TATonawalk: could be an independent thing anyway
benkay: goodness the things they say about network design
TATonawalk: making the wot friendly easy
mircea_popescu: not a bad idea.
herbijudlestoids: 20 tick returns distribution: http://imgur.com/ABfjFaX
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.1300001 BTC [-]
herbijudlestoids: pretty good to see vols clustering and mean reverting, good sign of a healthy microstructure in the market
mircea_popescu: this thing really gives the finger.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.13000008 = 0.26 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: i mean... both pics nao
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.12666666 = 0.76 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.10899999 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.10966666 = 0.329 BTC [+] {2}
benkay: what's the hot jam for running pools?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.12 = 0.84 BTC [+]
benkay: eloipool?
nubbins`: oh, sorry, thought you said ruining pools
benkay: no clarification needed nubbins`
mircea_popescu: cum ruins pools ?!
mircea_popescu: o may gawd....
ozbot: 2124 BTC destroyed in proof-of-burn : Bitcoin
herbijudlestoids: here is a detrended price oscillator against the same timeseries http://imgur.com/zZgcAqn
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids all this stuff almost makes me believe s.mpoe is not a scam after all.
mircea_popescu: i mean... it almost looks like a regular stock
nubbins`: mircea_popescu, ikr? weep for what you have done
herbijudlestoids: almost, trades a lot less tho
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3050 @ 0.00011978 = 0.3653 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: nubbins` all these years...
mircea_popescu: TATonawalk you mean dafe ?
mircea_popescu: "The Counterparty Team just went ahead and wrote their own stuff, doing what Colored Coins, NxT and Mastercoin failed to do these past 6 – 9 months. Not even Ripple has assets like these issued and trading."
mircea_popescu: well at least *part* of that statement is correct.
asciilifeform: 1) set up 'proof of burn' addrs with secret escape hatch 2) profit
pankkake: oh of course it comes with its coin
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform neverhteless, the assessment that nxt, cc, mc etc did nothing the past 9 months is correct.
mircea_popescu: then again cc did nothing over 3 installments and 2+ years.
asciilifeform: did nothing?
asciilifeform: other than chump-vacuuming, you mean ?
mircea_popescu: hardly any of that, either.
mircea_popescu: the thing with chump vacuuming is that creating the impression of a lot of chumps having been vacuumed already is part and parcel of the model.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like if a lion's success in catching gazelles was helped by it going around with a lot of dead gazelles.
asciilifeform: naturally, a discerning chump will insist on parking in a mass grave of his peers, not some lonely hole in an abandoned lot
mircea_popescu: there;d be dead gazelle lure shops for entrepreneurial lions
pankkake: I haven't looked up nxt's proof of stage algo… the half open java source doesn't help
pankkake: of stake*
mircea_popescu: i can't believe someone's still expecting to be taken serious with java
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 31 @ 0.00448889 = 0.1392 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 36681 @ 0.00011978 = 4.3937 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: 'we arent spending those burned coins, just moving to safer location!'
asciilifeform: 'phoenixcoin,' rises from ashes.
dub: proof of scam
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.0288 = 0.1152 BTC [+]
pankkake: phoenixcoin exists by the way
asciilifeform: ought to include 'burns'
ThickAsThieves: every satoshi spent is a burn
nubbins`: smashrate
pankkake: we could generate every coin for every word of the dictionnary, but the port numbers would conflict
nubbins`: sure, until portcoin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 4 @ 0.02879999 = 0.1152 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: we will have to refer to our conversation of bitcoin business names for altgen.io
pankkake: getrichquick.io
pankkake: getrichordietry.in
ThickAsThieves: coinularity
asciilifeform: 'getpoorquick'
herbijudlestoids: judging from the charts, MPOE does seem like a very good candidate for mean reversion trades
pankkake: well, we're not saying who's getting rich
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29984 @ 0.00093403 = 28.006 BTC [+] {3}
ThickAsThieves: crowdcoin
benkay: what the hell is up with the pool software space
ThickAsThieves: crowncoincloud.io
ThickAsThieves: fortune9000
pankkake: hahaha
benkay: fortuneover9000
pankkake: thatsthejoke.io
benkay: upyourbutt.coin
ThickAsThieves: piratesbengay
mircea_popescu: yourefuck.ed ?
KRS-: heh
ThickAsThieves: cryptogen
mircea_popescu: yourefuck.edu actually. just for that lovely your e-fuck, youre fuck etc grammar splendor.
ThickAsThieves: all in the name of education
mircea_popescu: the ideal one'd be co.in of course.
mircea_popescu: i don't think we're springing for that tho
ThickAsThieves: maybe this guy is selling http://altco.in
jurov: fc.uk
ThickAsThieves: i shoulda done the damn domain squatting ipo
ThickAsThieves: .bitcoin
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in countries which are not slovenia : http://noescapepublicnudity.tumblr.com/image/42491287328
jurov: that's in czech rep
ozbot: Doge devs just fucked all the initial investors by making Doge very inflationary and removing the ca
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves ha!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
herbijudlestoids: lol "investors"
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids no, they actually believe this
KRS-: http://shouldipanicsell.com/
ozbot: Should i panic sell ?
KRS-: lmao
ozbot: TATInvestments comments on Doge devs just fucked all the initial investors by making Doge very infla
KRS-: Hey ozbot wb
KRS-: .bait
ThickAsThieves: actually
KRS-: ThickAsThieves think this is a good buying opportunity?
ThickAsThieves: no source code!
ThickAsThieves: its a feature!
KRS-: Oh my bait
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76350 @ 0.00093503 = 71.3895 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves here's the cool part : 19:24:15
mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu:
mircea_popescu: basically bitcoin got attacked in 2013 by the most unlikely of sources : the dieing start-up circus. that was... bout 6 hours 20 mins ago ?
mircea_popescu: the numerous conincidences of cryptozoo.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
ThickAsThieves: i wash my hair of this!
pankkake: dogecoin isn't especially inflationary
ozbot: How I stole roughly 100 BTC from an exchange and how I could have stolen more : Bitcoin
ThickAsThieves: (Coinbase)
pankkake: lol what kind of noob thing allows that
pankkake: first post on point
benkay: wowee #dogecoin is an utter shitshow
ThickAsThieves: mpex does same thing sometimes, no?
ThickAsThieves: the Bugpowder incident
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.12323332 = 0.3697 BTC [+] {2}
KRS-: Mmm
KRS-: .bait
dub: benkay: yeah lol
jurov: but it did not end up with successful withdrawal
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves how you mean ?
herbijudlestoids: KRS- just sits in here baitin all day
dub: its like /b/ without ritalin
ThickAsThieves: he got a receipt for an option he didnt get
KRS-: .bait is a nice feature.
jurov: afaik only once me and smickles confused mircea into doing a withdrawal twice
mircea_popescu: so how is this related ?
ThickAsThieves: just saying that not just noobs have systems that can break linear value movement
jurov: oh yes, lock yer balances correctly
mircea_popescu: mpex spouts all sorts of crap all the time tho,
mircea_popescu: bujt the problem there seems to be that they executed crap, not that they claimed crap
ThickAsThieves: pots and kettles can share color, but not shape
mircea_popescu: making a woman is hard enough
mircea_popescu: making her also say what she means is beyond even what god can accomplish
ThickAsThieves: mpex is a tin woman?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.125 = 0.25 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: the burden of money
davout: mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: look, we got fixed len str
mircea_popescu: jurov there's a guy that managed to get his assets transferred twice back in the old days (2012), netted like 300 btc from it.
mircea_popescu: opperator error.
jurov: nice. i gained only 10btc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00093536 = 14.2175 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "I don't see this making a difference. There are lost coins in every currency. A 10K block reward is peanuts. Any anyways, the developers could always modify this in the future if it became a problem."
mircea_popescu: gotta love all the damage control.
mircea_popescu: someone's working overtime this weekend.
ThickAsThieves: the realize the power of Altcoin and that they need to gut themselves quickly
herbijudlestoids: here are the MPOE trade volumes http://imgur.com/fNa5B9q per tick, no discernible diurnal pattern
ThickAsThieves: 100 Bitcoin ATMs Land In Australia
ThickAsThieves: not bad!
mircea_popescu: actually from there seems people are coding their bots to sorta split orders over ticks huh
herbijudlestoids: almost certainly
mircea_popescu: (i wouldn't expect any pattern, since most everyone will be trading via pympex or similar, it's trivial to just schedule w/e)
mircea_popescu: diurnal or w/e i mean
herbijudlestoids: well most stuff i watch is traded algorithmically in aggregate and still has strong diurnal patterns
herbijudlestoids: i guess usage is much higher
mircea_popescu: this is a point
mircea_popescu: maybe people actually suck at algos in fiat ?
mircea_popescu: ie, their algorithmia is more akin to a wheelchair than a car
mircea_popescu: alternatively, australia, japan, china, russia, iran, europe, the us... there might be some slight pattern not visible cause low sample yet.
herbijudlestoids: yes thats possible too
mircea_popescu: basically what do you see in the other stuff, the pacific ocean right ?
herbijudlestoids: depends, but mostly the tokyo/london/NY is the 3 prominent phases
mircea_popescu: well also yeah, bitcoin doesn't realyl have "financial centers"
herbijudlestoids: and the hours where they overlap liquidity is strongest
herbijudlestoids: for example tokyo/london overlap is only slightly less liquid than london/NY overlap, and in currencies like AUDJPY or index futs like HSI its more liquid
herbijudlestoids: doesnt have financial centers, yet ;)
mircea_popescu: i doubt it'll ever have any. why would it ?
mircea_popescu: also... i suspect a large number of btc people are not-normal sleep patterned.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: lets say for example bitstamp becomes the #1 worldwide retail payment gateway foreverything forever
herbijudlestoids: obviously they will affect the diurnal pattern because they do payouts on a cyclical basis
herbijudlestoids: err bitstamp==bitpay, sorry
mircea_popescu: lol bitstamp made some sense, even if kako was gonna kill you once he got his electric chair back
mircea_popescu: but bitpay ?! i dun see it in any sense.
mircea_popescu: anyway. few people if at all trade on this junkie's routine, of gotta wait for check to clear style.
mircea_popescu: generally people maintain liquidity through planning, it'd be rare that a trade has to be stayed because waiting for confirms.
herbijudlestoids: ye, i was mostly just curious, actually kind of hoping to see an obvious time based pattern so i could focus some efforts into that window
mircea_popescu: it'd also be antieconomical
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.17 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: anyway, i guess i better do some real work today since its monday.
herbijudlestoids: behave yourselves children :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2633 @ 0.0009328 = 2.4561 BTC [-]
benkay: mircea_popescu: pm
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.57724998 = 2.309 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 400 @ 0.005 = 2 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14161 @ 0.00093541 = 13.2463 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 38 @ 0.00448889 = 0.1706 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00295769 = 1.4788 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17244 @ 0.00093564 = 16.1342 BTC [+] {4}
wao-ender: oh, someone looks on cyclical bitpay payouts heh
Dimsler_: you guys
Dimsler_: what the hell blockscan
Dimsler_: and xcp
Namworld: Stupid MtGox and it's late transactions
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 14 @ 0.0288 = 0.4032 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.00093094 = 7.401 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.17289988 = 0.6916 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.17289989 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.002958 = 0.4437 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.59016664 = 3.541 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.594 = 1.188 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.5999 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 12 @ 0.126 = 1.512 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 13 @ 0.24310363 = 3.1603 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.12999999 = 0.39 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.12500002 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.12500001 = 0.25 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.112 = 1.008 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.125 = 0.75 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.112 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.24310363 = 1.2155 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.125 = 0.75 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.07333339 = 0.22 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00093599 = 5.3351 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.073 = 0.146 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1225 = 0.245 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9669 @ 0.00093461 = 9.0367 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1398 @ 0.002958 = 4.1353 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 3000 @ 0.0029589 = 8.8767 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 124 @ 0.00083999 = 0.1042 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8600 @ 0.00093599 = 8.0495 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15999997 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.000932 = 4.4736 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00093606 = 8.0033 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.125 = 0.25 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15999997 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5062 @ 0.0009319 = 4.7173 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 15 @ 0.24310363 = 3.6466 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 50 @ 0.005 = 0.25 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 55 @ 0.00448889 = 0.2469 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.04979999 = 0.3486 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15999993 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.59992076 = 7.799 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.00581408 = 0.1105 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2804 @ 0.00093227 = 2.6141 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.15999993 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1700 @ 0.00093004 = 1.5811 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.15999994 = 0.32 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00093294 = 2.3324 BTC [+]
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