#trilema | 2014-01-18

nubbins`: KRS1: there's been a "Virtual Currency" category on ebay.ca for a while. They wait til you've typed out your item description to tell you that you can't list things in there yet.

nubbins`: mircea_popescu: many had the opportunity to crush ebay, few put in more than a cursory effort

mircea_popescu: kinda why being big is a defense.

nubbins`: nod, look at windows 8. everyone reviles it, then goes out and buys a new computer with it preinstalled

mircea_popescu: i never bought a computer with software preinstalled wtf.

nubbins`: shrug, most common way to buy em over here

nubbins`: big box stores etc

mircea_popescu: but it's cheaper to buy the parts.

nubbins`: beyond the average person's ability

nubbins`: its cheaper to change the oil filter in your car on your own

nubbins`: few do it

mircea_popescu: well that's arguably bad for teh environment

mircea_popescu: anyway, i can see why you wouldn't, to allow the used oil to be collected

nubbins`: you can bring the collected oil to a garage

mircea_popescu: this is true

nubbins`: anyway, countless examples. home-baked bread is maybe 15-20% the cost of store-bought

nubbins`: given a choice between convenience and thrift, people choose the former

mircea_popescu: yup. but the reason baking is a required skill is that well... store bought bread is awful

nubbins`: nod, i can't eat it anymore

mircea_popescu: i dunno how parents allow women out of the house if they can't bake

nubbins`: the old-timers here would call it "baker's fluff"

mircea_popescu: it's a recent perversion this, and quite atrociously antisocial.

nubbins`: the average set of parents handed off most of their responsibility long ago

mircea_popescu: also quite atrociously antisocial.

mircea_popescu: and then these people have the gall to discuss sociopaths.

nubbins`: nod, such are the times we live in

mircea_popescu: THEY'RE the sociopaths.

nubbins`: speaking of pathos, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-S862p69B0

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9406 @ 0.00085219 = 8.0157 BTC [-]

nubbins`: on an unrelated note, i had a couple questions about stock warrants

nubbins`: well. at least one question, which will likely lead to some follow-up questions

Apocalyptic: go ahead nubbins`

nubbins`: don't think you have the answers i'm looking for, but sure: what's the process for redeeming one?

nubbins`: not looking to do so at the moment, just curious

Apocalyptic: you would in general inform the issuer of your intention to do so

Apocalyptic: if you're asking about MPex warrants then yeah mircea will probably be in a better pos to answer that

nubbins`: i am indeed, and i'm looking for specifics :)

Apocalyptic: then i can't help you :)

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30450 @ 0.00085326 = 25.9818 BTC [+] {2}

mircea_popescu: nubbins` mm ?

nubbins`: ah yes. not looking to redeem my stock warrant, just wondering what the process is

mircea_popescu: you state you want it redeemed, and which account it goes to, you're given an address to pay w/e it is to, you pay and have the shares pushed

nubbins`: well i don't have an account, hence my wondering

asciilifeform: i suppose i should listen here as well

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26261 @ 0.00085218 = 22.3791 BTC [-] {2}

mircea_popescu: nubbins` then you'll have to talk to a broker to take them for you

nubbins`: i'm admittedly not an expert in the language of fiance, but as far as i can tell, having an mpex account is not a requirement for redeeming a stock warrant

nubbins`: *finance

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i recall you mentioned that the user fee will be debited from dividends, when those appear

mircea_popescu: nubbins` well you'll have to hold the shares somewhere.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform um which user fee is that ?

asciilifeform: the 30.

nubbins`: ostensibly, sure

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28950 @ 0.00085427 = 24.7311 BTC [+] {2}

nubbins`: one could in theory "hold" them as a pgp-signed doc stating ownership of said shares, although i'm not sure what sort of mess that would create

mircea_popescu: nubbins` that's exactly how one's holding them now innit.

nubbins`: holding cum != holding a baby, but yes

rattaTATpowpow: nubbins, i can help facilitate at some point if you want them ob Havelock (this is TAT on the road), though CoinBr might be better

nubbins`: anyway, there isn't much written regarding redemption, here are the few snippets i could find:

nubbins`: "Special Stock Warrants (abbreviated SSW) are numbered and GPG signed instruments which create the right for a beneficiary specified by GPG fingerprint to purchase a specified number of S.MG shares directly from MiniGame for a specified price, no earlier than a specified date."

nubbins`: nothing like a client that crashes when pasting

nubbins`: section 3.2 (b) of the IPO

nubbins`: and the stock warrant itself

mircea_popescu: the only difference between the ssw and the share is that the ssw receives no dividends until it becomes a share.

nubbins`: sure, yeah

rattaTATpowpow: it seems that storing them as warrants makes the most sense no?

mircea_popescu: but other than that, teh cum is in all respects a baby.

nubbins`: well realistically i'm going to hold the warrant for a very long time

mircea_popescu: ssws are like, cold wallets for shares i guess ha

nubbins`: but it would seem that the requirement to purchase an account on mpex or a broker is an ex post facto condition

mircea_popescu: not more than the requirement to have some sort of container is an ex post facto condition on buying milk.

rattaTATpowpow: can you sell warrants?

Apocalyptic: I thought all issued warrants were tied to a GPG fingerprint of a registered MPex key

nubbins`: they are indeed tied to fingerprints

mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic to a gpg fingerprint yes, but it doesn't have to be a key.

Apocalyptic: ok, I see

nubbins`: nah, you can buy milk without a container. the farmer will happily squirt it into your mouth or on the ground

rattaTATpowpow: lol

nubbins`: to perfect the analogy, consider the case where a gallon if milk is $4 and containers from the farmer cost $6

asciilifeform: liquid nitrogen actually. this situation is abundantly true there.

mircea_popescu: well you can squirt it on he ground if you want, sure.

asciilifeform: contents cost a few $, container, a few hundy

asciilifeform: (visit local welding shop if you don't believe)

mircea_popescu: i doubt farmers will hook your head to the machinery because of the risk of being sued afterwards :D

asciilifeform: gas shop won't pour the LN2 in your clasped hands either.

nubbins`: haha. too true. luckily there's no such recourse in btc land

nubbins`: anyway, the text of the stock warrant and the ipo could be interpreted a few ways

mircea_popescu: all text can be interpreted an infinite number of ways

mircea_popescu: kinda what xor is there for

nubbins`: coffee or tea, sure

nubbins`: anyway, not trying to be a pest, but there's a few points here that i think a dissection of would be interesting

mircea_popescu: so go ahead

nubbins`: ipo, section 1

nubbins`: [SSWs] are numbered and GPG signed instruments which create the right for a beneficiary specified by GPG fingerprint to purchase a specified number of S.MG shares directly from MiniGame"

nubbins`: SSW #3: "S.MG will not process or administed any assignments of this Warrant by or among third parties"

nubbins`: on the surface, these two statements appear to cut MPEx out of the picture altogether

nubbins`: IPO section 3.2(b) offers 3 conditions for future share issuance; the first two conditions explicitly list MPEx as the venue, whereas the third, dealing with stock warrants, makes no mention of MPEx

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15442 @ 0.00085438 = 13.1933 BTC [+] {2}

mircea_popescu: yes, but these being contracts made by smg they're ancillary to its ipo agreement which is also its incorporation charter.

mircea_popescu: as s.mg can not issue shares on another venue, that's what it is.

nubbins`: another venue, sure. i couldn't ask you to issue my shares on, say, uh... wait, are there even any play exchanges left?

nubbins`: but that doesn't preclude a direct issuance of shares

mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "direct issuance of shares"

mircea_popescu: shares are what they are, not what some noobs thought they were, in the glbse days.

nubbins`: back to SSW #3: "[PGP fingerprint] shall be issued [x] new S.MG shares upon payment of [y] BTC to S.MG"

nubbins`: suppose a warrant holder pays [y] BTC to S.MG, and then announces they don't have an mpex account

nubbins`: one side of the contract has been fulfilled

mircea_popescu: they can't, cause tey have to say what their acct is before they can pay.

nubbins`: ah, sure

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20168 @ 0.00085107 = 17.1644 BTC [-]

nubbins`: suppose at some point down the road, S.MG happens to publish a BTC address that they control

mircea_popescu: but it did already

nubbins`: oh?

mircea_popescu: o s.mg you mean nm

nubbins`: yah

nubbins`: even something as inocuous as "feel free to donate btc to S.MG for feature improvement at 1SmgFeaturesblah1234"

nubbins`: a warrant holder sends [y] BTC to said address

nubbins`: they've fulfilled the conditions of the SSW

mircea_popescu: no, they merely sent some donation btc.

nubbins`: you say donation, they say payment.

mircea_popescu: they don't get to say.

mircea_popescu: because bitcoin payments can not be refused by the receiver, it logically follows that any published address will be treated exactly as the owner describes.

mircea_popescu: the sender gets no say.

mircea_popescu: just like the receiver gets no say on whether he receives or not.

mircea_popescu: this separation is actually one of the best things bitcoin is doing, even if few people had so far teh mental penetration to realise it.

nubbins`: we're back to ex post facto. payment has a specific definition

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.04999997 = 0.45 BTC [+] {2}

nubbins`: i eat a meal at a restaurant, head to the cash register, "oh sorry we don't take cash"

Diablo-D3: nubbins`: thats when you walk out and tell them to fuck off

nubbins`: sure, yes, unfortunately the analogy fails at this point

rattaTATpowpow: thats why you dont get the shares first

nubbins`: lel

nubbins`: one of the reasons why, yes

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 35 @ 0.00534986 = 0.1872 BTC [-]

nubbins`: "S.MG will not process or administer any assignments of this Warrant by or among third parties"

nubbins`: ^ is MPEx considered a third party

nubbins`: ?

mircea_popescu: payment does have a specific definition, sure.

lippoper: they only take bitcoins

mircea_popescu: and i suppose mpex would be a 3rd party except it seems moot ? what's the case, mpex wants to buy your warrant outside of itself ?

nubbins`: what's mpex? all i've got is a warrant that mentions S.MG

mircea_popescu: this strikes me sort-of like the girl going to the gynecologist who says "don't let anyone stick his thing in there for two weeks", at which point she replies "are you anyone ?!"

nubbins`: heh!

mircea_popescu: well... he's not about to take her on a date, so it's moot.

nubbins`: this entire discussion is moot, but worth having nonetheless

mircea_popescu: so yeah, s.mg would at no point be processing assignments of the warrant between its holder and mpex.

mircea_popescu: quote the contrary, mpex processes assignments between the holder and s.mg

nubbins`: ah, yes, i see

nubbins`: more accurate would be "S.MG will not process or administer any assignments of this Warrant", full stop

nubbins`: that would make for a strange document indeed

mircea_popescu: and my fucking champagne froze

mircea_popescu: bloody hell...

nubbins`: we're in full spring here, 15C yesterday

mircea_popescu: nubbins` the idea is that if you decide to trade it to x, and x to y, and y to zee,

mircea_popescu: it's your damned business to sort it out, and s.mg isn't getting involved.

nubbins`: but if "S.MG will not process or administer any assignments of this Warrant"... the IPO contradicts that, when it defines an SSW

mircea_popescu: among third parties yo.

nubbins`: "...to purchase a specified number of S.MG shares directly from MiniGame"

nubbins`: directly!

mircea_popescu: so on paper 1 it says "we don't handle third party assignments" and on paper 2 it says "this is for buying directly"

mircea_popescu: seems oddly coherent to me

mircea_popescu: almost as if the same hand had written both.

nubbins`: sure, so what's the process for me buying my shares directly from S.MG?

mircea_popescu: you notify s.mg that X mpex account will be taking Y share delivery on this here warrant of yours.

mircea_popescu: s.mg tells you where to send the btc,

mircea_popescu: after which X account has the shares.

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 60 @ 0.005 = 0.3 BTC

nubbins`: so there's an implied, but not stated, 30BTC charge for redeeming an SSW

mircea_popescu: how do you figure ?

nubbins`: no account, no redemption

nubbins`: no mention in the SSW

mircea_popescu: that's not the case tho.

mircea_popescu: you can redeem just fine, you just can't redeem to your own account if you don't have one

mircea_popescu: which seems logical.

mircea_popescu: o. you're reading the "no third party assignments" to mean you can't have someone else's X ?

mircea_popescu: that's not at all what it says.

nubbins`: well, it's an ambiguous statement.

mircea_popescu: it merely says X can't come and say here, i have an assigment by nubbins, on his warrant, so please accept MY pgp as a valid signature to redeem shares.

nubbins`: i took it to mean that S.MG would only issue the shares to an account with the same fingerprint as the SSW

mircea_popescu: not at all, no.

mircea_popescu: it will issue shares to any arbitrary fingerprint,

mircea_popescu: just as long as the original fingerprint quoted in the warrant signs for it.

nubbins`: sure, okay

mircea_popescu: yeah, i see why that'd irk, that other way.

nubbins`: (this was my original intention anyway)

nubbins`: have had a few nibbles

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 90 @ 0.00315 = 0.2835 BTC [+]

nubbins`: it may be worth clarifying some of these points

nubbins`: in further issuances

mircea_popescu: i don't believe in long contracts.

mircea_popescu: let people ask. caselaw ftw.

nubbins`: i live in a commonwealth country, caselaw is all we have ;p

mircea_popescu: that's how the jooz did it too.

mircea_popescu: and the italians, fwiw.

nubbins`: (not much)

nubbins`: anyway, interesting instruments, SSWs, and this should be illuminating text for current and future holders of such instruments

mircea_popescu: yeah.

nubbins`: you mentioned earlier about the inability to refuse payments to a published address

nubbins`: this was the classic "cover your ass" tactic of those who bought illegal items on SR and other websites

mircea_popescu: you mean sold ?

nubbins`: nah, bought. purchaser slightly misspells their name when placing an order

nubbins`: package arrives, is brought indoors and left on a table, unopened

nubbins`: cops burst in, guns drawn

mircea_popescu: hahaha i never heard of it, but hey, whatever floats teh boat.

nubbins`: purchaser shrugs, says "how can i control who sends me packages?"

nubbins`: "they didn't even get my name right!"

mircea_popescu: did this actually ever happen ?

mircea_popescu: outside of reddit i mean

nubbins`: heh. just a thought experiment, but all the elements of plausible deniability are there

mircea_popescu: all the elements of plausible deniability as reddit imagines them.

nubbins`: consider that one could send a kilo of cocaine to a reviled politician

mircea_popescu: but you AREN'T a reviled politician.

nubbins`: no, but i know several of them

nubbins`: what's stopping me from mailing a key to one of them and then tipping off the cops?

mircea_popescu: good for you, but still, anon dork wants judge to believe someone hates him enough to blow 10k on it ?

mircea_popescu: or w/e a kilo of coke goes for these days

nubbins`: replace politician with neighbour, key of coke with handful of LSD

mircea_popescu: except the package wasn't sent by the neighbour.

mircea_popescu: someone with no prior contact sends you some lsd, you probably bought it.

mircea_popescu: you know, plausible is in there for a reason.

nubbins`: let's suppose i hate my pill-head neighbours

mircea_popescu: why do you hate them ?

nubbins`: because they smash bottles in the road all the time.

mircea_popescu: did you ever make a formal complaint ?

nubbins`: cops are there more frequently than houseguests

mircea_popescu: but that aside, you actually did ?

nubbins`: oh yeah, several times

mircea_popescu: okay, gowon

nubbins`: so i throw some pills into a box, write their address on the front, stick it in the mail

mircea_popescu: except they can track packages you know

nubbins`: call the cops again and say "i heard them talking about receiving a shipment of pills in the mail"

mircea_popescu: that pakcage came from w/e, chicago.

nubbins`: it came from the same city, even.

mircea_popescu: not from across the hall.

nubbins`: doesnt matter the origin

mircea_popescu: says who lol

nubbins`: what, people don't send mail inter-city?

mircea_popescu: they do, but people don't hate their neighbours inter-city.

mircea_popescu: in that those aren't neighbours.

nubbins`: so i drive 20 minutes to a post office in the next community

nubbins`: small inconvenience if i want my pillhead neighbours out of my hair

mircea_popescu: do you sign for the package when you send it ?

nubbins`: no, of course not

mircea_popescu: can you send anon packages nao ?

nubbins`: it's only a few pills. a padded envelope and a stamp will do.

nubbins`: you always could

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 22 @ 0.0051224 = 0.1127 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.54601011 BTC [-]

nubbins`: you could fit 1000 hits of LSD in an envelope

mircea_popescu: so your defense hinges on the jury buying the theory someone is stalking you.

nubbins`: i don't have a defense, i'm not in the picture

mircea_popescu: if you're a dweeby teenaged male with no social circle this won't stick,

mircea_popescu: say all trial attorneys ever.

nubbins`: the pill-heads defense is that someone is framing them

mircea_popescu: yes is what i meant.

nubbins`: the prosecutor's argument is that a frame job is ludicrous

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.54600011 BTC [-]

nubbins`: and the pillheads go off to jail

nubbins`: or do they!

mircea_popescu: likely.

mircea_popescu: it's not much of a plausible denial, so far.

nubbins`: so for the cost of a stamp and a couple of pills, you can send someone to trial

mircea_popescu: sure.

nubbins`: possibly to jail

mircea_popescu: and for the cost of a drink you can send someon to bed.

mircea_popescu: possibly to the maternity ward

mircea_popescu: it's just how life works.

nubbins`: heh

nubbins`: anyway, judges here are generally practical people who realize that they live in the real world

mircea_popescu: kinda what i mean.

mircea_popescu: the judge will warn you and let you off if its your first time

nubbins`: if anything, the fact that i've complained about my pill-head neighbours so many times would lend much credence to my story, should i be caught with a package full of drugs in my mailbox

mircea_popescu: likely it isn't your first time.

nubbins`: "must have been those pill heads, they hate me and they're into drugs"

mircea_popescu: yeah, except until the cops ransack your place and find 5 sets of opened similar packages cause your gf can't be bothered to take out the trash

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1700 @ 0.000094 = 0.1598 BTC [-]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8877 @ 0.00085446 = 7.585 BTC [+] {2}

mircea_popescu: leave aside if they actually had been stealing your trash for the past 5 months.

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23723 @ 0.0008558 = 20.3021 BTC [+]

nubbins`: well that's just being sloppy

mircea_popescu: like all junkies ever.

nubbins`: what's the story on casual drug use in romania, anyway?

nubbins`: something like 50-60% of canadians admit to smoking marijuana

mircea_popescu: i'd be surprised if a teenager in 10 actually ever had actual drugs of any kind.

nubbins`: although i always had the impression that eastern europeans didn't bother too much with the softer drugs

nubbins`: HEH. you should visit a high school here.

nubbins`: it's practically canadian culture at this point

mircea_popescu: sucks.

nubbins`: pros and cons. the uninspired continue to be uninspired

mircea_popescu: mno. normally the population is more or less balanced, ever the marginally worthless can pull their own weight. get a job, pay the rent.

mircea_popescu: with drugs, 90% of the population ends up costing more than it's worth, and half of what by such a wide margin even salami is a poor use.

nubbins`: marginally worthless pulling their own weight -- is this before welfare became a thing?

mircea_popescu: welfare is not yet a thing in romania.

nubbins`: o wow

nubbins`: so you can't get paid to sit on your ass your entire life?

mircea_popescu: minimum wage is like 150 bucks

mircea_popescu: a month.

mircea_popescu: and for that you do 8 hours 5 days a week.

pankkake: minimum wage isn't really welfare. well, it encourages other kinds of welfares

nubbins`: to calibrate, what's a loaf of bread cost?

nubbins`: (store-bought, natch)

mircea_popescu: about a dollar.

nubbins`: ah, so let's see

mircea_popescu: rents are about 3-500 for anything you'd live in.

nubbins`: going by a loaf of bread, that 150 bucks would be about $525/mo here

mircea_popescu: well... what's a gallon of milk there ? it's about 7 bucks here by now.

mircea_popescu: gas is ~2 dollars a liter so like 8 a gallon

nubbins`: ~$4.50 for two liters, although being on an island with few cows, it's understandably more costly than mainland canada

mircea_popescu: in short : breat is a poor comparison point (partly because most women being able to bake bread keeps bakeries honest)

nubbins`: hop on a ferry and it's maybe $5/gallon for milk

nubbins`: gas is $1.30-$1.50 a liter

mircea_popescu: so life is actually cheaper in canada.

pankkake: bread is poison anaway

mircea_popescu: noitsnot.

nubbins`: rents for a 1br apartment start around 7-800

mircea_popescu: yeah, rents in america are a racket.

mircea_popescu: i'll give you that.

nubbins`: nod

nubbins`: 5 years ago you could rent the same place for 450-500

mircea_popescu: anyway, i don't think it's significantly different, tbh.

nubbins`: nah

nubbins`: cost of living is generally calibrated towards min wage, more or less

nubbins`: with some hardship, sure, but what do you expect

mircea_popescu: well i tell you, in general a student chick is either living in a four to the room dorm or else five-six chicks in an apartment, here. giving her her own place is a larger step up than her education would afford.

nubbins`: how about electricity, $/kWh?

nubbins`: to be fair, that's maybe the most vulnerable to regional variation

nubbins`: yeah, you don't find many single young people living on their own here

nubbins`: either still with folks or in a house with 3-6 others

mircea_popescu: it varies a lot but about 10 cents

mircea_popescu: then again romania has excellent infrastructure, lot of hidro, lot of nuclear.

nubbins`: 11 cents here, all coal-fired

nubbins`: well, mostly coal-fired

nubbins`: some hydro

mircea_popescu: they do this thing where they give it @2 cents/kwh to old geezers etc. so some very passible welfare sort of hting

nubbins`: massive hydro project coming online in "2017", will increase rates dramatically for us while providing cheaper electricity to other provinces and american markets

mircea_popescu: lol

nubbins`: yeah, real boondoggle

nubbins`: largest coal plant on the island is ~10 years beyond expiry date

nubbins`: the rolling outages started this winter and are expected to continue for the next four winters

nubbins`: hydro megaproject is actually located in mainland canada, connected to the island by undersea cables and then above-ground cables passing through a mountain range

nubbins`: repair time for a downed line? 1 month

nubbins`: needless to say, you can't buy a generator or a bottle of kerosene here at the moment

nubbins`: propane shortages since early december

mircea_popescu: i don't get this bs. how can a market economy experience shortages, at all.

nubbins`: companies blame weather conditions, citizens blame complacency and lack of planning/foresight

mircea_popescu: planning is not part of market erconomy.

the20year2: Who's economy?

mircea_popescu: everyone's moved on to a planned/command economy and refuse to admit it.

nubbins`: tell the citizens that

nubbins`: in fact, the lack of planning was on the part of the citizens

nubbins`: but few will admit their complete failure to plan for the unexpected

the20year2: Futures contracts are a part of a market economy

the20year2: which should smooth winter costs for fuel

nubbins`: much easier to complain about shortages than to address the fact that they caused said shortages by rushing to stock up on fuel when the outages begin

nubbins`: the20year: costs remain constant, availability doesn't :)

the20year2: Depends on how contracts were written, they can be written to deal with availability. A market economy could also see the need for fuel/goods and transport them

nubbins`: generally "scalping" doesn't happen here, so there's that, at least

nubbins`: well, the need for fuel wasn't visible for many until substations started exploding

the20year2: Sort of like when hurricane sandy hit NY/NJ this year, instead of letting gas go up 50c a gallon they just let the stations run out. Fuel companies could have brought in fuel for an extra 25c-50c a gallon, but the states ruled it illegal

nubbins`: yeah

nubbins`: TBF the weather did play a small role in the availability. all supplies are brought here by boat

nubbins`: we received i think 140cm of snow in december, without any melt

nubbins`: average is ~60

the20year2: you'd think with average snowfall that high you'd have people prepare

the20year2: but who wants to do that? it takes effort

nubbins`: YOU'D THINK

nubbins`: compounded by the fact that there are a lot of "McMansions" being built by those who made their fortunes in the oil and gas industry

nubbins`: and 90% of new builds use electric for the primary heat source

the20year2: I told everyone I knwo for the past 2-3 years they need to be buying backup propane hosue heaters and fuel, hardly anyone did it. And now we've had this freeze that's really caused problems

nubbins`: and the same 35-40yo coal generating plant pumping out the kWs

the20year2: Yeah

nubbins`: a generation ago, nobody gave a fuck when the lights went out

the20year2: here in the US the coal plant would be producing less and less due to more regulations

nubbins`: throw another log in the wood stove

nubbins`: today, you have communities setting up "warming centres" when the lights go out

nubbins`: oh, i was mistaken, that plant burns oil

nubbins`: #6 fuel oil

nubbins`: that's what, one step away from crude?

nubbins`: anyway, capacity was last upgraded in 1989

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32950 @ 0.00085425 = 28.1475 BTC [-]

nubbins`: relevant quote from "survivorman" les stroud:

nubbins`: "You won't see me crying when the power goes out. It's your own responsibility to keep warm, that's yourself and the vulnerable, so just deal with it. It's not the government's fault."

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.0828 = 0.1656 BTC [+] {2}

mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> and 90% of new builds use electric for the primary heat source << in canada ?!

mircea_popescu: in a coal fired county ?! by people who made their fortune in energy ?!

mircea_popescu: end of the fucking world.

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.546 = 1.092 BTC [-]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6649 @ 0.00085425 = 5.6799 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.5455 = 1.091 BTC [-] {2}

nubbins`: well, a generation ago, 90% of new builds had oil furnaces

nubbins`: today, an oil furnace will bleed your wallet dry over the course of a winter

nubbins`: when selling a house, oil heat is a huge negative these days

mircea_popescu: i don't get this. how is electricity cheaper ?

nubbins`: oil furnaces in homes burn #1 or #2 fuel oil

nubbins`: power plant burns #6

nubbins`: lower grade + bulk purchasing

mircea_popescu: nothing but rackets that place.

nubbins`: what's one to do, tho

Duffer1: we could vote!

Duffer1: lol :(

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 59 @ 0.00270918 = 0.1598 BTC [-] {3}

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12431 @ 0.00085443 = 10.6214 BTC [+]

nubbins`: Duffer1: perhaps the biggest lel of modern history

Duffer1: indeed

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 67 @ 0.00294 = 0.197 BTC [+]

nubbins`: democracy came about as a way for power-hungry low-borns to claw their way to the top

nubbins`: turns out the power-hungry aren't necessarily the best people to be placed in positions of power

pankkake: isn't it the modern panem et circenses?

nubbins`: one form of it, yes

nubbins`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot#Etymology

ozbot: Idiot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

nubbins`: at one time, an idiot was one who was unconcerned with public affairs

nubbins`: to a point, this original definition still fits

pankkake: I'd like to be an idiot then

nubbins`: it's not that hard to pull off.

nubbins`: side note, "nub" is a synonym of "pith"

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00085221 = 6.6472 BTC [-] {2}

nubbins`: t-shirts with public keys printed on them, think there's a market?

nubbins`: probably the nerdiest t-shirt i can think of

nubbins`: but surprisingly economical if you order even just two

benkay: hey asses

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54166 @ 0.00085008 = 46.0454 BTC [-] {3}

nubbins`: OH HI

nubbins`: what's new

benkay: q4->q1 drought looks to end soon

nubbins`: nice

nubbins`: i was just floating the idea of bespoke t-shirts with one's public pgp key printed on the front

benkay: i want my pubkey embossed on my business card now that i think about it

benkay: subtle neckbeardery

benkay: or on a dog tag

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 39 @ 0.00512033 = 0.1997 BTC [-] {5}

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17000 @ 0.00084927 = 14.4376 BTC [-]

nubbins`: heh

nubbins`: black ink on a black shirt, even

nubbins`: need to catch the light to see the pubkey

nubbins`: imagine the nightmare of transcribing that

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.548 = 1.096 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.0264999 = 0.265 BTC [-]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26881 @ 0.00085299 = 22.9292 BTC [+] {3}

kakobrekla: benkay: doge coin for doge

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 49 @ 0.00534107 = 0.2617 BTC [+] {2}

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21166 @ 0.00085005 = 17.9922 BTC [-]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53900 @ 0.00084808 = 45.7115 BTC [-] {3}

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11611 @ 0.00084686 = 9.8329 BTC [-]

deadweasel: where's my "Got land? Thank Whitey!" tshirt, nubbins` ?

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00084571 = 10.9097 BTC [-]

nubbins`: deadweasel: 0.06 btc and it's yours

nubbins`: that's with both lines on the front tho, extra cost if you want it split back & front ;(

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32464 @ 0.00084567 = 27.4538 BTC [-]

benkay: http://homakov.blogspot.com/2014/01/account-hijacking-on-mtgox.html?#

ozbot: Egor Homakov: Account hijacking on MtGox

nubbins`: i reported a gaping CSRF vuln on havelock last year

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00084533 = 5.4946 BTC [-]

benkay: did it get fixed?

nubbins`: yeah, i submitted a fix and they applied it almost immediately

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 175 @ 0.005 = 0.875 BTC

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00084537 = 5.3258 BTC [+]

nubbins`: any osx users here?

mircea_popescu: website "accounts".

nubbins`: ^ a square peg, if small enough, will fit into a round hole

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00084533 = 10.3976 BTC [-]

mircea_popescu: meanwhile back at the bar, http://noescapepublicnudity.tumblr.com/image/57247915606

Duffer1: i'm not a fan of the V

pankkake: ok, that one is nice

pankkake: nude in public isn't fun when it's on a deserted street at 6 am

mircea_popescu: what's the v ?

mircea_popescu: o her hairdo. yeah i guess it's kinda silly

mircea_popescu: http://24.media.tumblr.com/71cda16a2f5d0c117c30ee36d832f203/tumblr_mpl1doQpvd1sqenddo1_500.jpg

nubbins`: heh

nubbins`: might as well be a stack of $100 bills

mircea_popescu: lol

mircea_popescu: .d

ozbot: 1789546951.05324 | Next Diff in 1018 blocks | Estimated Change: 18.4961% in 5d 18h 10m 42s

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 18 @ 0.04999997 = 0.9 BTC [+] {2}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 8 @ 0.05 = 0.4 BTC [-] {3}

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00084533 = 10.3976 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 267 @ 0.00040014 = 0.1068 BTC [-] {5}

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2950 @ 0.00084537 = 2.4938 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 300 @ 0.00040013 = 0.12 BTC [-] {3}

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6227 @ 0.00084533 = 5.2639 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 259 @ 0.00321385 = 0.8324 BTC [+] {10}

KRS1: .bait

ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/2eac9ffaf2b3b08b475c16a28ccd6622/tumblr_mpmhwsgkUq1rdn1f7o1_500.png

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 30 @ 0.00337736 = 0.1013 BTC [+] {3}

KRS1: unf unF unF uNF

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 75 @ 0.00339919 = 0.2549 BTC [+] {3}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4707 @ 0.000092 = 0.433 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 25000 @ 0.0000943 = 2.3575 BTC [+] {5}

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6150 @ 0.00084537 = 5.199 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 567 @ 0.00369034 = 2.0924 BTC [+] {15}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 100 @ 0.04684184 = 4.6842 BTC [-] {11}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 234 @ 0.00399987 = 0.936 BTC [+] {6}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 25110 @ 0.00009584 = 2.4065 BTC [+] {5}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.554 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00534999 = 0.535 BTC [+]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00084537 = 7.1011 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 63 @ 0.0045 = 0.2835 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.55001428 = 3.8501 BTC [-] {3}

KRS1: .bait

ozbot: http://25.media.tumblr.com/26ca4062920a054824054fa97dcbc311/tumblr_mp8xl36UMB1rlo3vko1_500.jpg

KRS1: .bait

ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/77058617f35c8599359f67a6877a961a/tumblr_mlrtb0RxvC1rqqzgio1_500.jpg

KRS1: .bait

ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/2341e8e92f654ce66bcd213625c939a7/tumblr_mjiapjVPSv1rl5021o1_500.jpg

KRS1: .bait

ozbot: http://24.media.tumblr.com/60f02f8ae53803f4cd5bae4dd52c62bb/tumblr_mguhal3yHC1s1mcw0o1_1280.jpg

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.00534999 = 0.214 BTC [+]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9352 @ 0.00084533 = 7.9055 BTC [-]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.0008457 = 6.8502 BTC [+] {2}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 8 @ 0.05 = 0.4 BTC [-] {2}

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00084571 = 8.1188 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.555 BTC [+]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00084571 = 10.9942 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4847 @ 0.000097 = 0.4702 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 35 @ 0.004 = 0.14 BTC [-] {3}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 111 @ 0.00395198 = 0.4387 BTC [-] {3}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 712 @ 0.00391404 = 2.7868 BTC [-] {3}

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00084533 = 2.2824 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.000098 = 0.49 BTC [+] {2}

← 2014-01-17 | 2014-01-19 → ↑