phf[asciilifeform]: man was at least a philosophy TA at some point, enitrely entitled to take a deductive tone in this case, and in many others.
phf[asciilifeform]: but i'm curious, do you think you'll ever forgive your former friend, who's now dead, over an unpleasant falling out you guys had?
phf[asciilifeform]: and the other question is do you perceive any particular tone in your own writing from that time?
asciilifeform: phf: prolly asciilifeform from the period would read, to 'civilian', as even moar unhinged than mp
asciilifeform: re 'forgive' -- dead fella not needs anybody's forgiveness. in asciilifeform's pov, situation resembled (and for all asciilifeform knew, resolved to) terminal alcoholism.
asciilifeform: forgive friend who dissolved his brain? sure. still unpleasant to rewatch the process.
signpost[asciilifeform]: but lettuce not now forgive NPCs for their lowliness!
signpost[asciilifeform] shakes jowls vigorously
signpost[asciilifeform]: every. single. one of us. was at max arrogance during the period.
signpost[asciilifeform]: this is probably even a necessary ingredient of any aspirational cultural upheaval.
signpost[asciilifeform] can still look back and enjoy
signpost[asciilifeform]: ain't as if most of us are now dead, even.
signpost[asciilifeform] sees asciilifeform's pest work as having much cultural continuity with that past.
signpost[asciilifeform]: the hallowed status of the logs, and putting them at their right place, among a peerage.
asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform enthusiastically went with the 'upheaval' style -- warpaint, 'hurrah patriotism', whole kit. and these things are viscerally fun, but imho inevitably distracting from productively sweating over handmade clockwork
asciilifeform: 'upheaval with warpaint' prolly worx better for 'd00dz with pointy sticks' fighting style than for 'let's build machines'
asciilifeform: mp for his part was visibly (and sympathetically) frustrated at presiding over band of clockmakers rather than pikemen. but if wanted the latter, oughta have config'd his time machine correctly.
shinohai[busybot]: logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-07#1017724 << "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness ...."
asciilifeform: ( see also e.g. )
dulapbot: (asciilifeform) 2022-03-31 asciilifeform: mp went on for kilometres re 'effete codemonkey's bias in favour of buttonpressing solutions' but suffered equally idiotic 'meatmonkey's bias for 'manly'-flavoured solutions'
signpost[asciilifeform]: all of us retch at our uncivilized times in our way.
signpost[asciilifeform] has no counterargument to any of the above.
whaack[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: re gg marquez, thx. i had tried that book before but it was above my paygrade at the time. taking a crack at it again.
whaack[asciilifeform]: alternative to z library (which i've heard is now only available via on tor) --> https://annas-archive.org/
whaack[asciilifeform]: via tor*
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-07#1017734 << is there atonement for transgressions past, or must one wait in eternal restlessness for consequence?
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-07 12:00:03 signpost: all of us retch at our uncivilized times in our way.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: I ask for a nietzschean lens, but all other interpretations are welcome.
signpost[asciilifeform]: I don't get the question. atonement from what?
signpost[asciilifeform] not very restless either.
signpost[asciilifeform]: forgiveness is for you, keeps your brain from baby-bathwatering useful chunks of identity by attaching them too tightly to an enemy.
signpost[asciilifeform]: the dead are dead from cause, not towards purpose.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: Broadly; atonement from wrongs done unto others. Whether it be something I've said that I too believe was wrong (not to be conflated with merely an offence), or something I have done that I have had good cause to regret.
signpost[asciilifeform]: what's the atonement do? presumably keep the others from taking revenge on you by mutual agreement to The Rules.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: signpost: alleviates the guilty conscience.
signpost[asciilifeform]: if it's not that, it's entirely between your ears.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: but yes that too.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: saying it's entirely between your ears seems rather solipsistic imo.
signpost[asciilifeform]: tradition says if you feel guilty, good. you know you're an animal, whereas the next guy's pretending he's not.
signpost[asciilifeform]: your psychological guilt is literally a data structure between your ears.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: there are consequences from those actions that have a direct effect on others, wasn't constraining that definition of guilt to an internal representation
signpost[asciilifeform]: so fix the consequences if they bother you.
signpost[asciilifeform]: if you can't, throw yourself on the mercy of those you wronged if you care so much.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: I can't find the thread, but the one good thing that came out of verisimilitude was along the lines of "I don't make mistakes anymore"
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: pertaining to the idea of a correct response on eternal recurrence
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: evidently I would not bring this up if it did not have a sufficient impact on my daily functioning
signpost[asciilifeform]: if you don't care so much, you're playing with yourself by thinking about guilt.
signpost[asciilifeform]: sounds like door number two then, eh?
signpost[asciilifeform]: are you reading what I'm writing, or waiting to say more yourself?
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: right.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: I appreciate your advice.
crtdaydreams[asciilifeform]: Thank you.
signpost[asciilifeform]: the second of three options I gave.
signpost[asciilifeform]: sure
signpost[asciilifeform]: fwiw where nietzsche falls down imo is in his soldiering alone. there is this being, it's atomic; what do we teach it so it improves itself over time?
signpost[asciilifeform]: there are no perfectly separate individuals. the edges are messy and bleed over, which is why whatever troubles you does.
signpost[asciilifeform]: christ said love your neighbor as yourself in acknowledgement of this reality, and not to encourage you to pretend it's true.
signpost[asciilifeform] grows convinced that the distributed computation is the thing, or is at least more thingly than individual meat puppets.
signpost[asciilifeform]: to bed, cya