#ossasepia | 2019-09-10

← 2019-09-09 | 2019-09-11 → ↓

diana_coman: lobbes: that's good, thank you.

auctionbot: B#1057 O=100mn LB=100mn E=2019-09-12 20:26:41.479316 (74h5) >>> item as described in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934605 and following.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 04:57:27 mircea_popescu: so : who would like to do a spot of work for hire for me ? the ideea is to write and publish as a vpatch a stan logbot extension which a) processes search, through talking to a [presumably present] mysql server, and spitting out the results (formatted as in http://trilema.com/2019/

auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 100mn total bids ---

diana_coman: nice

diana_coman: !o uptime

ossabot: diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 2d 9h 18m

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-09#1001798 - note also that code is effectively created as useful item (and as opposed to random text/found on github) *by the signers*

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 15:29:32 asciilifeform: (i.e. it becomes indistinguishable from the background hum of the universe, coad found on shithub, etc. someone could read it still and sign it, but few will find any desire to bother )

diana_coman: most emphatically, code is *not created* automatically by whoever pushes some keys somewhere; IF and only if it gets signed, THEN it becomes code and still ONLY for those who explicitly trust the signer.

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-09#1001724 - how did you plan/see this leverage, more precisely?

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 13:19:48 shrysr: continue that even after getting work and atleast make pocket money to begin with and slowly only contract jobs .... earn in $, gain good exp - go back home to leverage. For that matter - that still had flaws.... business approach quite different n etc.

auctionbot: B#1057 O=100mn LB=100mn E=2019-09-12 20:26:41.479316 (68h26) >>> item as described in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934605 and following.

auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 100mn total bids ---

shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-10#1001820 << In general, my thoughts (and exp) are that white folx are 'respected' for 'skills' and 'better knowledge' back home, from the industry perspective. More importantly, I'd say a 'systematic' approach to doing things, including topics they know nothing about - is viewed as impressive, because perhaps the prevailing population in India do not care

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-10 07:17:22 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-09#1001724 - how did you plan/see this leverage, more precisely?

shrysr: enough to approach it that way and I'm guessing for them more its like a short-term 'survival' thinking mode. Employing white folx also adds a 'dimension' to representation of the company (or ego) - saying 'I have a brit d00d from BP' on my payroll. For that matter - I think beyond somewhat better english language fluency, perhaps my exp in Leeds and general thinking - I subscribed to the 'western' way,

shrysr: and thus related much faster and significantly more accurately in relationships with say Germans (first salt mine), and Americans (2nd salt mine) -- which accelerated my growth at the mines on many levels. The most important for me was extracting missing knowledge. This was actually - a 'thought experiment' in the sense - I thought this is a 'likely advantage' while returning from UK. It was fwiw. I was

shrysr: also kindda lucky - I worked in mines dealing somewhat closely with foreign masters, rather an extra indirect distance via red tape etc. I guess I have forced closer interactions as well, i.e doing best to not allow only boss/lead to interact by simple measures like taking initiative of communication/meetings...drafting emails for boss, and then sending out myself... or enticing 'imagine if we are asked

shrysr: this in customer meeting nxt week, *you* will end up looking like idiot + delay negotiation saying 'will revert after white master is consulted''..'what if competition has instant answer?'. lol. I believe it was also re-confirmed / further shaped by dads stories - which typically indicated *stark* differences in professional approach, overall elegance, 'sticking to correct technical approach and time

shrysr: required' etc. In a nutshell - ppl *wanted* the above things... and it is much more abundant in the west - but they also want it in a 'controlled' influx for lack of better word.

shrysr: Ofc - i won't become white or european like M.Jackson lol, but the idea was 'live' in the systematic approach, learn + practise the right way to do stuff, and then return to drive relationships, workflows etc with a superior knowledge base, including upfront exposure. Having earned in $ in the past + Local base - would enable me to be satisfied with lower payscales and lesser 'demands' than actual white

shrysr: folx + locals have more comfort dealing with (golden-) brown (lol) boy like me, making me overall more attractive as a choice, by which time I should have a base for 'consultancy' or gigs to drive pocket money (atleast). lmao... its not totally insensible - but somehow the above sounds .. well based on 'non-progressive traits of orcs' when broken down, even though its not even a plan yet..

shrysr: There are many flaws and the above is still a simplification of a complex dynamic. There has been evidence both supporting and opposing the chances of success. 1. my own family, as in wife kids etc (if it ever happens) is likely to add severe complications to moving back . 2. compartmentalisation, and actually gaining knowledge in 'fields/areas' that they need in India. Not to mention self-sufficiency *is*

shrysr: increasing albeit in a trickling fashion - beyond a point of pain - progressive white masters do want frameworks with minimal baby-sitting. 3. Several cases of such white folx stationed in local office 'to fix things' who end up drinking away misery and doing nothing, and biding time to go back - thus fueling impression that 'it doesn't work'. fwiw: several opposite cases where they do fix stuff. 4. Those

shrysr: who do have capacity to think (+ exposure) do understand - white folx are human like the rest with flaws - they are not as 'absorbent' in the sense - many don't learn quickly or relate enough to overall attitude and business practises (extreme negotiation, day long meetings, stoking egos of big-swinging-dicks to get 'deal') to be completely effective.

diana_coman: shrysr: you don't seem to realise but your biggest win and advantage in fact is precisely the familiarity you gained with *both* systems; to the extent that you can interface effectively, it's a huge bonus but by leverage I meant your actual plan of action.

diana_coman: fwiw I don't think it makes sense to go and look for employment but rather directly consultancy (or at any rate your own business there)

diana_coman: precisely capitalising on "schooled in the UK + worked in USA and Canada and with Germany etc"

diana_coman: not to mention that you can effectively sell the other part to the West too - local connections and know-how

diana_coman: but more importantly and now that you saw enough (?) of both: where do you actually want to live?

shrysr: hmm the plan was to flesh out the idea after resolving present problems of stable income... and lets say...find enough peace to put head down and stay in a mine till above could be worked out optimally. Atleast in the past mine-year ... i've not given this much attention - the thought is also that I've not seen enough of work in canada.... i've not found a place i dont mind hanging around, tmsr excluded.

shrysr: fwiw: the reverse selling of local connections/know-how was in fact on the cards even at current salt-mine. infact took initiative last... november - gifted a list of contacts, companies + verbal description company + individual traits + ideas to penetrate market etc... gift was grabbed and then was harshly rebuked - 'contacts are not everyting.. we offer superior tech (not true), we dont believe in

shrysr: negotiating (?!??), we sell plenty to india (1 customer found via erp process so far), 'you dont know what you are talking abt'...

shrysr: i say gifted - but i was also 'asked', based on interview where i said 'i can do this for you'

shrysr: i say gifted because I did not withold info or do some 'power ploy'... ppl actually pay for that kind of info gathered by 'agents' in india.

shrysr: and that was done as a conscious decision...tbh.

diana_coman: eh, for one thing you won't be able to "optimally" anything upfront like that; you DO need a plan and a thorough one, sure, but you'll actually find exactly what the problems are only once you are on the ground.

diana_coman: ofc they do; but either you ARE on your own feet and THEN you can even force them to buy it or ...you are the new employee desperate enough so that they could hire, in which case there isn't much to talk about, no

diana_coman: not to mention that doing something *right* means also doing it for the right people, ofc.

diana_coman: for & with; as the saying goes, can't quite make silk purse out of sow's ear.

shrysr: lol nice saying. yes.. i agree. I guess.... i desperately wanted to believe in the good side of a black orc ...considering older age, exp...and some minute good traits. that i cd make the good side prevail for me or something. I've even reviewed whether what he said was true.. whether I was wrong... over reaching.. downright delusional, since even a long time perhaps. i guess.... i lost hope after sometime

shrysr: of analysing. After awhile i believe I was just... living day to day...the erp n all that was a desperate clinging to try to recover ...and get out 'someday'. I guess I lost belief i could... or ever would for that matter. Being stoned stops the tears. fwiw my mom remarked recently that they both noticed that i was 'suddenly slipping' .. prob somewhere around feb ... and i have supposedly been stubbornly

shrysr: rejecting their every attempt to 'lift me up'... i presume there is a distinct difference in the 'way i talk' or respond. Like i said... when i popped up here... I was almost in some kind of stupor.. and even after that - it has taken me time to trust... or regain hope. it doesnt have to be that way i guess.... maybe its because rage consumes me at some point.

diana_coman: well, you need a more solid structure on which to rely so you don't end up thrown about and banging on extremes for no good reason.

diana_coman: structure of thought first and foremost; and note that idealism is precisely the inability to see (notice+comprehend) much of the fabric of reality.

diana_coman: anyway, I gather that they noticed you are recovering?

shrysr: yes. asked me to thank you...

shrysr: thank you on their behalf and i am myself grateful...much more than i can hope to convey in words.

diana_coman: shrysr: glad to hear they see it, because their eyes are -from what I gather - the most "trained" mirror on the subject that you currently have.

diana_coman: conveying in actions is great :)

diana_coman: speaking of which, I thought you wanted to post a draft as per 1.1 in http://younghands.club/2019/09/09/week-9-tasks/ ?

shrysr: they are the only mirrors i've consistently had... the few others are varying degrees of reflections.

shrysr: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-09#1001697 not solely. but most critical driving factor.... plus that -in their eyes - i have bits and pieces from different areas and dont conform to exactly what they want... i.e the job description, and no 'serious' credit given to learning ability - which fine, is not measurable - i've tried to provide evidence that i worked with 2 entirely different

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 12:03:50 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-09#1001694 - are you sure it's the 5X experience solely?

shrysr: products/jobs/compaines etc and *made* impact. fwiw: this is gathered via inference from the *few* who actually provided some semblance of feedback.

diana_coman: that is inescapable (re mirrors and degrees).

diana_coman: shrysr: the "not ticking the boxes" quite sure, yes; re impact, from you said, you probably also conveyed (without realising it, sure) "difficult to mould to the shape we want" and since that's what they want for as long as you look at fiat-jobs, well...

shrysr: yes... i will post draft of 1.1 today. Re: mould... i have to say i agree. well, even so then the problem was acquiring the deficit to fit mould - which i cd not realistically do in my field/subjects. Besides that - i must say I never believed in 'changing mould'... i guess i decided if i had to acquire deficit and fit some damn mould - then i'd find as 'flexible' mould as possible lol leading to data-hag

shrysr: then entering the funnel (and *is* very apt description) - and finding something close to good there kindda by trial and error - and....reaching... top of same funnel loll, in terms of 'quality resources'.

shrysr: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-09#1001699 re: more jobs than ppl, atleast in canada - thats often an illusion. They post jobs even if they dont wanna hire or will hire 'next year' or something... sometimes, mistaken posts After hiring! some will even explicitly state - no phone calls! like scam to collect CV's as trophies or something. sure not *always* an illusion, but a *good* number of

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 12:05:20 diana_coman: I have no idea re Canada but at a quickest of looks around here, it certainly seems that there are more jobs than people willing to take them on; still, I can't see any non-tmsr-job as something helping you much esp when actually doing the calculation re whether they pay you or it's in fact the opposite

shrysr: cases I believe are so... gathered from convos. lol.

shrysr: I believe this and [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-09#1001762] [this] have been impediments in my head towards not plunging into a press and getting dirty with the code...

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 14:11:22 asciilifeform: shrysr: my point is that if you are looking for a proof that 'is in fact difficult', will probably spend the rest of your life looking. there aint any such proof, for any of'em.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 14:15:12 asciilifeform: shrysr: in order to grasp 'v', it is necessary to first postulate that hash and rsa work . (~then~, later, will be very obvious what happens if they do not)

shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-09#1001770 I realise from my question there that i am still confusing 'hash'/signing and encrypting.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 14:30:43 asciilifeform: shrysr: hash is used in signing, rather than encrypting

diana_coman: shrysr: heh, the benefits of re-reading, see? even re-reading your *own* questions.

shrysr: diana_coman: yes... indeed. re: asking nicoleci - i thought it wd be more productive to revise the cv based on composite jd's and then ask?

diana_coman: shrysr: certainly; even better: you first revise cv until you consider it best; then let me know and I'll ask her.

shrysr: okay will do.

diana_coman: shrysr: at any rate, the solution to "confusing" is to ...write it down; there's a reason I kept asking you to summarise stuff (and it's not because I lack what to read otherwise, ahem).

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-10#1001878 << don't hesitate to ask re what specifically you still find confusing

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-10 15:13:03 shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-09#1001770 I realise from my question there that i am still confusing 'hash'/signing and encrypting.

shrysr: diana_coman: lol pretty sure you dont lack much, least of all anything to read! i see that better now though...abt summarising... abt talking. during the very initial exploration itself - i *did* suddenly get the pressing...i.e i got the overview of V - but then resisted the urge to see the code thinking i am not ready to see it, i dont know wtf i am doing ... i shd have gone with the urge or flow... i shd

shrysr: have let myself 'play'. i guess, the problem is not only restricted to V... but also applicable to my forays of ML... theres always 'something that shd be in place before i do this'. .. for eg: that glmnet algo? i stopped at that point in that course some *months* ago. Sure I *got* the gist n all... but i wanted more..my goal wasnt to finish. The guy who posted the Q, posted ---- answer/solutions etc came

shrysr: after some weeks - abt that time he announced to usual great fanfare he finished the course!! Knowing the algo is not something trivial - but the point is - i seem to refuse to move on and return later... re-read....relax...play.. refuse to attack 'intelligently' w/o head-butting and destroying wall of ignorance immediately.

asciilifeform: shrysr: 'resisted the urge to see the code thinking i am not ready to see it' is absolutely never the smart thing to do .

asciilifeform: shrysr: if yer waiting for the sky to open and voice of odin to say to you 'you are nao ready to read the coad!' -- will wait a very long time.

diana_coman: ^^^^ exactly as asciilifeform says!

diana_coman: shrysr: is it another sort of "not smart if not got it directly" or what?

diana_coman: you *need to* feel it up/play with it to actually master it, no matter what "it" is.

diana_coman: and in fact, the *more* ways you find to interact with it (even/especially those that fail unexpectedely), the *better* you'll get to know it

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-10#1001890 - never tried impersonating Odin, so yeah, no chance of that!

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-10 16:34:43 asciilifeform: shrysr: if yer waiting for the sky to open and voice of odin to say to you 'you are nao ready to read the coad!' -- will wait a very long time.

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-10#1001886 - actually lacking time (could do with 48 hours to the day) and more productive people around, there's work for 10 easily.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-10 16:30:01 shrysr: diana_coman: lol pretty sure you dont lack much, least of all anything to read! i see that better now though...abt summarising... abt talking. during the very initial exploration itself - i *did* suddenly get the pressing...i.e i got the overview of V - but then resisted the urge to see the code thinking i am not ready to see it, i dont know wtf i am doing ... i shd have gone with the urge or flow... i shd

shrysr: perhaps some elements of 'not smart..'. i guess more related to 'mastery' of the whole thing *before* playing, rather than playing repeatedly to gain mastery... and actually playing with... no 'restriction'. its not present everywhere as far as i can see... but its obviously there where it shdnt be.

shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-08#1001579 << well ASD was ..well, easy to do, with sculptor, the software i used. but i'm not sure i have a good enough idea of what computer graphics would entail. How wd I get a .. well a 'quick feel' ? Blender tutorial ? fwiw: the 3D modeling i did were not monsters or characters - but 'pumps' ... not even the surfacing type stuff that you do with cars.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-08 08:46:18 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-07#1001553 - aha, arbitrary shape deformation is one tool for "sculpting" 3D shapes (hence stuff like characters or monsters in a game for instance), indeed; the question for you here is whether this is something that really speaks to you (because if it is and you are willing to work it properly, there's a good opportunity with eulora right there)

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 22:45:12 shrysr: the closest i guess i came to graphics was with my masters thesis... using a software called sculptor - they used something called arbitrary shape deformation (ASD) and NURBS to deform geometries i.e meshes and create quick variations of geometry instead of completely remeshing for each change. i used to find meshing very challenging...kindda hated that part of the whole process, then slowly became

shrysr: It was pretty much a 'set approach' .. I dont rem the terminology for the surfacing. Class A surfaces? In short - whatever modeling/meshing i did - well --- tedius initially, but of course subsequently - it was fine. For eg, i was using solidworks / UG NX.

shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-10#1001842 << TBH : i do not care much abt where i live.... india is comfortable being home fwiw. All this.. shift to canada.. etc etc has been... towards a 'career' ... 'cool ppl' etc. That career itself is 'changing' now. For eg: If i had decided in india - fuck mech engg - whether IT/data-hag/banking whateva - i dont think i wd have bothered abt the west.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-10 12:34:12 diana_coman: but more importantly and now that you saw enough (?) of both: where do you actually want to live?

shrysr: i'm saying that --- i just care abt work. and becoming the best i can and doing great work...(well eventually atleast), and Its FAR more enjoyable working with ppl who have brains.

shrysr: http://trilema.com/2017/the-universal-plan-for-wealth/#selection-171.0-171.114 << seriously ??!!! ?????????

shrysr: i cant stop laughing after reading the article..... in light of the shit i've faced in the last 2 years. I dont know *shit* abt finance fwiw. well ok - i understand stocks and mutual funds to some extent.

lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-10#1001894 << this is beautifully stated btw :D

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-10 19:38:19 diana_coman: you *need to* feel it up/play with it to actually master it, no matter what "it" is.

lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-10#1001900 << exactly. think about it: do you master a language *before* speaking your first word? master walking *before* even taking a first step? "master eating" before taking first bite? While comedic to a point, this is very serious. In the latter example you'd starve to death on a very real level.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-10 19:59:50 shrysr: perhaps some elements of 'not smart..'. i guess more related to 'mastery' of the whole thing *before* playing, rather than playing repeatedly to gain mastery... and actually playing with... no 'restriction'. its not present everywhere as far as i can see... but its obviously there where it shdnt be.

lobbes: shrysr: really, just jump into that code and start chewing. Compared to your knowledge level now, I was an utter retard when I started my tmsr journey (arguably still am), yet somehow I made it into the lordship by the simple act of *doing things*. Hell, even now I bet you could blow me out of the water if you simply started eating

lobbes: that and poor diana_coman's gonna burn out if she keeps running on one engine like this. Best way to show your gratitude is indeed through *action*

← 2019-09-09 | 2019-09-11 → ↑